Will This Heartbreak Ever End?

0:00Just for me to hear it directly from you rather than in writing. Just tell me the question and a little bit about the context of your question. Of course, yeah. So my first relationship ended around a year ago now. And as I'm 29 right now, it ended when I was 28. And I've been having a really hard time ever since with ups and downs. Luckily, it hasn't all been completely depressing, but it has been quite a hard time. And I reconnected several times after a breakup with my ex and that didn't help. But that's also part of the issue, I think. And the question that I have is how do I let go of someone that is not into me in a romantic sense anymore?

0:51and I know that's for the better because the relationship was very hard and had many toxic dynamics that were not good for either of us and so my primary question is how to let go of heartbreak that is your first heartbreak at the age of 29 which complicates things maybe a bit and of course there are way more details to this in my own history as well that led up to this point

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2:46What's important for me to know about your first love, the ending, the troubles of the relationship, the relationship school that you went to in your childhood? what is important for me to know i think that the relationship itself and it took some time for me to notice but looked somewhat familiar to the relationship that my parents have still to this day and which is um emotionally detached from each other as well which also had an effect on me and my siblings. And although they did their very best, they also, and primarily my mother, came from quite troubled backgrounds with large families and also no emotional or very little emotional availability from their parents.

3:47And that's something that when I was younger, I never really stood still by until my sister first asked me the same question. Like, do you ever feel unheard by, emotionally unheard or not seen by my parents? And she first asked me that when I was like 18. And I didn't really connect to that question very much. So I told my sister. Huh? What are you talking about? Exactly. More or less. I was like, well, no, I was just too occupied with my own things at the time. and I didn't have any real relationship experience back then. So I was just doing my things, enjoying myself with my friends and things like that.

4:33So yeah, I was surprised. Like, no, I have no clue what you're talking about, basically. And over the last couple of years, that made more sense already, also before my relationship with my now ex-girlfriend. But now that that relationship concluded and also somewhat during the relationship, I felt so seen in that relationship by my first girlfriend that I attached myself way too quickly to the relationship as well. And that was a dynamic that we created together. It felt somewhat like love bombing, if you could say it like that. But I was just as much there as my ex-girlfriend was. So yeah, I think that's a little bit of context in regards to my youth.

5:22So I didn't know that I missed love, closeness, connection. Affection as well. Physical affection. Affection. Affection, yes. But when I met her, everything in me was screaming, longing, and yearning for all of it. Big gulps. Yeah, very much so. And I allowed it, I welcomed it, I scared myself, I scared her, or none of the above? No, no, because I started dating and I was still a virgin before I started dating and that was at 26. I started dating and I met several wonderful girls, but none of them worked out. And I think I met around seven or eight girls that I dated at least a couple of times, most of them.

6:20some a little more, some a little less. And then I met my ex-girlfriend, and I was also so desperately looking for a relationship, which wasn't healthy, but I had no experience whatsoever. So I was just like a fish looking for food in an open ocean without any food. And then I met her, and she came out of... Hold on, hold on. I was like a fish looking for food in an open ocean. where there was no food. That is quite an image. Describe it for me. Yeah, so there were a couple of dates back then that I attached the first one, actually, which also felt quite wonderful. After the second date, we kissed, and after a couple of more dates, we ended up in bed, and that was my first time in that sense.

7:20I had experimented way before that time when I was younger, but it had nothing to do with love. So that was the real first time and I got so attached. And how was that for you? Slow down, slow down, slow down. You're telling me so many things and so many important things. Is it okay if we slow down a little bit? Yeah, if you can help me with that, it would be great. So let's take a deep breath first of all. Just to bring a different rhythm inside your body.

8:02So this was your first, maybe not your first sexual experience, but your first partnered experience that involved love. Yeah. So you were a virgin, you were not a virgin. I was a virgin. It was not my first sexual experience, but I was still a virgin. And how was that for you? Was she or she had more experience than you? No, I believe she came out of a relationship of eight years, so she had quite a lot of experience. And I was quite open about the fact that I didn't have any experience. And that first time was both beautiful, a little awkward, and a little forced almost on my end. Meaning I didn't really want to, but I thought I should?

8:57Meaning what? no no I wanted to but the fourth bit is actually with a problem that I discovered and I didn't really know that it was a a larger issue until then but it was that I had great trouble getting to an orgasm and that was my first time so I didn't think too much of it but I almost like in my head I had that picture of it must happen like it is supposed to happen like I'm a man like so it was in that sense forced in my own in my own mind and I felt that I was taking long in achieving an orgasm or in ejaculating in I think achieving an orgasm they're not the same you know that and And you experienced that how?

9:59You were surprised, you were curious, you were anxious, you were worried. What did that represent, if anything? I think I was somewhat worried that it would not happen. Before? No, not before, because I didn't have the experience to really know until then. and there came a point while we were intimate me and that first girl that I dated back then and she came to a point where she said like you don't have to orgasm per se like we don't have to force anything and rationally that made complete sense but emotionally I was like I'm not sure if I really felt like a failure but I felt like yeah but it should happen right like why why can't it happen and that made it forced and in the end i'm not even sure if it happened anymore or if it happened i did it myself and i came to know after other girls that i dated that that was a larger issue i think it's mostly caused by stress or performance anxiety or however you want to call it, something along those lines.

11:17What do you call it? I think I would call it... Yeah, there's a beautiful Dutch word for it. I'm not sure if you know the English translation, foul angst. Fear of failure? Fear of failure, yeah. I think that's maybe one of the key factors there. I would call it fear of failure to perform. And what I noticed when I eventually met my ex-girlfriend And I had that same issue. And initially, the first time we were intimate, she was somewhat shocked that I tried to finish myself. Because I can imagine you don't encounter men with this issue every day. Like, there are most likely other men that have similar issues.

12:02There are men that have issues with coming too soon. But she was quite surprised. And we talked about that. And I explained that I've never been able to come from penetration before. and then we started working on that and I stopped masturbating and after a month she was able to let me come and then things improved and we were able to or I was able to come during penetration and I think part of that was the fact that we fell in love so quickly almost unhealthy quickly that I was on cloud nine basically I was out of this world like I just switched to a new job I found my first girlfriend back then.

12:46We were not official, but things were going really great. So I just, I was elevated by that feeling. There's nothing wrong with that. No, I know. There's nothing wrong with that. That's why we call it falling in love. We don't call it, you know, climbing step by step. No. Tell me something just on this issue itself. you had experience with orgasm and ejaculation but primarily through masturbation. Yeah. And you basically have learned how to let go with yourself but not with a partner until then. Yes. There are trust issues involved, there are control issues involved and they are basically consequences of bad habituation.

13:41Yeah. When you spend many years primarily masturbating, you develop a certain habit of pressure, friction, speed, you name it, and it becomes exactly… The default. Yeah, tailor-made. Yeah. You know, as you exactly like it, and you don't have to temper with anyone else, and you don't have to synchronize and you don't have to learn how to stay connected to your own pleasure, to your own sensations, while at the same time staying connected with the other person. But it sounds like you were able to create that together, both of you. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And you were on cloud nine because it's a beautiful feeling and you had a new job and a new girlfriend and a very elated experience of nascent love.

14:32Mm-hmm. and so far so good. So when does it start to turn that you say, I miss the woman, I don't miss the relationship, or I miss the beginning, I don't miss what followed? Yeah. So I think that the relationship itself became quite difficult early on. Difficult means what? Yeah, my ex-girlfriend, two months prior to us meeting for the first time, came out of a, what you would call a situationship, I think, that lasted, I'm not sure how long exactly, but four to five, maybe six months, which was also quite hard on her and was quite toxic for as far as I have heard her stories. and I think that she, from the very start, was very scared of me leaving very early on.

15:33And after a couple of dates with my ex-girlfriend, she sent me a screenshot, I believe, of her deleting her Tinder account. We met through Tinder. And I sent a screen recording of me deleting my dating apps. But I had paid for Tinder Platinum for six months and I still had three months remaining. So I deleted the apps, but I didn't delete the account. And she was quite surprised to hear that after the next date and asked me, like, why do you need a backup? Why do you need to keep your account as a backup? And I was like, well, we've only met a couple of times and I really enjoyed spending time with you, but I have no clue how this will go.

16:09So under some pressure, I also deleted the account because I did view all the excitement of the connection that I had with her. So that was the first little kind of discussion. It was not really a fight. Like, I can also voice my opinion as well. So I voiced my opinion and I was like, well, I don't need a backup. But it's just because I paid for six months and that's expensive. So who knows what happens here. I will not use it. But I think that she didn't really trust me not using it because of previous experiences. She had quite a few relationships and dates and many of them had their own issues like many relationships that Phil have.

16:51I realized that, of course. Tell me if I hear you well. When we met, there was a lot of beautiful elixir between us. but also very quickly did we bring to each other anxieties, insecurities, vulnerabilities, fear of abandonment, fear of lack of attention, fear of neglect. Yeah. That kind of pre-existed even meeting. We brought them in the suitcase and we opened the suitcase right in front of the other and said, help me. You could say that. Save me, cure me. Yeah. Take all these bad feelings away from me. And both of you did so? Yeah. What did you learn about yourself? And what did you discover?

17:45Since you're the one who I'm talking to, what did you discover about what you missed, what you wanted, what you needed, what you hadn't had? Yeah, let's start with that. I think a couple of things that stood out to me pretty early on that at the moment or at that moment I didn't fully comprehend yet. But after a couple of months, I started to slowly understand that the lack of affection that I lacked, I think, in childhood as well, but also in my adolescence and growing up and becoming a teenager and my early 20s. the affection that I received from her matched the affection that suited my inner child to say it like that suited my mental being it was the ocean with nutrients yeah that was the ocean with nutrients exactly and also our conversations which could both go very in depth about our insecurities and our paths and things that I've missed and that she missed in previous partners or also in childhood.

19:01And sharing those experiences, but also the feeling that primarily for me was so profound, the feeling of feeling so safe with someone else to open up and be completely vulnerable and to feel myself like I was finally completely myself, if that makes sense. And when that relationship got so difficult so quick, there almost was no hair on my head thinking that I would ever let that feeling go. There was one time that I also considered ending it because it cost me all of my energy, basically. And still I couldn't do it. Still I could not break that relationship because of, I think, because of the feelings of loss that I would have to endure for the affection that I would lose, the emotional intimacy that I would lose.

20:15We have to take a brief break, so stay with us, and let's see where this goes.

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22:37how did it end just to get a sense of the full circle how did it end so it officially ended January of last year and it ended there was no at that point no particular event that caused the breakup but I think and I had seen that like throughout the relationship that my ex-girlfriend And also had to deal with a lot of internal emotions around the relationship as well. I think those were both a combination of the relationship itself and the past experiences that she had. And it was right around Christmas 2023. And we were heading to her parents, actually. And this is just one of the more clearer bits that I remember.

23:30and she discussed with me that she thought that we should end this after Christmas and that we should just do Christmas for our parents because of everything they had organized. We should just do that and after that call it quits. And that was not the first time we broke up for a week earlier that year. But you would break up because what? What would create the cycle? I understand that you try to break up a few times and you would come back or she would come back. So what was the circle? When you say it became bad quick, I mean, you're very clear. It became bad quick, but I just couldn't bear the thought of losing the physical affection, the connection, the emotional intimacy.

24:23even though it was becoming more and more fraught and I could rely on it less and less. I was holding on to what it once had been and what I now knew it could be possible and what I wanted to find my way back to. But that's not how it happened. So if you gave me, when you say that Christmas stands out, why this thought wind should end? That was part of the conversation. Every time there was an issue, one of you would say, this will never work. Or something happened that said, this is fraud. This is not possible. And just be as concrete as can be. I know I'm fishing with a broad net. I understand.

25:12So in the beginning of the relationship, when we would face difficulties, we would both get into discussions that would end in dynamics such as she would expect things of me that I felt like I couldn't give to her at that point more time together while the relationship was already quite difficult in the beginning I was quite avoidant I would say somewhat avoidant in the beginning primarily and she was quite anxious so she would need more closeness I would pull back a little because the relationship got sour points or sour bits quite quickly. I still loved her dearly and I didn't want to lose the connection, but I felt like I needed a little bit of space to get my head back on my body.

25:58And that would mean that she would think that I was just putting away and like that the relationship didn't matter to me or not as much as it mattered to her back then. and that dynamic changed over time like at the second part let's say like the second half of our relationship I wouldn't enter that dynamic anymore I would just like try to hear her points because I also felt unheard at many occasions when I tried to voice my perspective and I saw that her emotions were quite serious and she could get really emotional and that's also something that she was very honest about from the very start that she could get very emotional in both positive and negative ways.

26:41And I just tried to deal, the second half of the relationship, I tried to deal with the turmoil of the relationship, basically. And do what? So, for example, the fact that I made an OnlyFans account long ago, which I had used long ago and which I still did not use in a relationship, but she asked me in the middle of the night, I believe we were going to bed late that night. And she asked me whether or not I have an OnlyFans account. I'm not sure how she came to that, but I think she was also looking for reasons. And this is also where my intimacy issue comes into play, which also made her insecure about me maybe being with another woman, having somebody else on my mind.

27:31I think that plays into why she was thinking things like that. Like, is there something else going on here that I don't know? And she asked that and I told her, well, I still have an account, but I have not used it ever since. And also not when I was dating, I believe. And she was quite shocked by that and the fact that I didn't tell her. And then she wanted to look at my phone and I would become quite defensive because I was like, why don't you trust me because we've had trust issues before so i felt yeah not not seen before there was also an instance where we were intimate together and she found a hair around my genitalia and she was convinced that it was somebody else's and i think this also comes into an insecurity bit about our intimacy being so hot and cold as well because we developed I'm going all over the place so if you want to intervene let me know.

28:33I will. How did you know? Yeah because I know when I start to explain this that I go all over the place. But you get lost a little bit. You get lost and you create a kind of a distance between you and the emotions. So you're telling me there were trust issues from the start that you may not have done big things, but you did just enough to elicit her worry and her distrust and her suspicion. And then she would do just enough to instigate your distancing. you're not being emotionally available as you had well learned and so quite early on each of you set the other one up in their most vulnerable parts you withdraw she gets suspicious and agitated what was the presence were there other women involved was there porn involved Was there anything to play around all of this?

29:54I had a couple of dates before my ex-girlfriend, and I still had a couple on my Instagram followers list, and I followed them. But they were not on my mind at all anymore. I might think of them occasionally, but not in a romantic sense or anything like that. I watched Bourne back in the days before I started dating. and while I was dating, I think I still... You watched every once in a while or daily activity? No, before I started dating, I think I watched almost daily with periods of maybe a week of no watching and then a week of each day of the week and then maybe every other day. So that fluctuated a little but quite frequently.

30:42And how did it end? I asked you that before but I don't think we got to the answer the relationship yeah I mean how did it there is the beginning of a series of endings and then there is the final ending so to speak and then there is the ending inside that hasn't happened yeah so there are three endings here yeah the real ending of the relationship I would say we officially broke up in January of 2021 24. And then we tried, I called her maybe three or four times each week once after the relationship ended. And she was quite clear that she did not want to continue. And I just kept overanalyzing the end of the relationship.

31:32And after I called her that fourth time, we ended that conversation, which also lasted a couple of hours, I believe. And a couple of days later, she asked me to visit her and to talk and she wanted to see and try if we could fix things one last time. So we tried that from February of 2024 until a little bit into March of that year and then it finally really ended I would say. May I stop you? Yeah. One thing I'm hearing you say is I grew up in a very detached way with people that were kind and loving but not particularly expressive or emotionally attuned and part of what I think you're telling me is when I start to feel it's like opening a faucet at maximum capacity on the spot I don't open the faucet a little bit and then increase the stream I open it right to the maximum and the first feeling becomes a watershed instantly leading to obsession yeah I think there's some truth to that at least because what I tried to say earlier that first girl that I dated I noticed that I very quickly developed a lot of feelings for her.

33:11And I was quite aware of that as well. So I had that rational part of my brain saying, this does not make sense. I know that you're head over heels right now. But this is reality. And this is just the first girl that you dated. So get your head back on. This is most likely not real. And it ended up not being real. And it took a couple of weeks. and I was somewhat sad about that. And then I continued dating and I moved on. But it's very, it is very real. The feelings are very real. Oh, yeah. Maybe what you'd say is I just met this person, on what basis am I already imagining a whole life, etc.?

33:52But the feelings are very real and there is no filter. Wow. It's very interesting. the gap between how you emotionally rush into something, flood it, flood yourself, try to hold back with reason but don't succeed one or the other, go at full speed and then sexually you practice in some way delayed gratification. You hold in, you hold in, you hold in with the person. it's the exact opposite from what happens to you emotionally in one place you're like gushing out and in the other one you're holding, holding, holding and only alone under complete supervision and control of your own hands can you let go and I wonder if you've ever thought about that the gap between the emotional gush and the sexual withholding I don't think so, actually.