A Spiritual Approach to the Seven Summits with Wasfia Nazreen

0:01Every mountain that I've climbed in my life, I try to connect to the spirit before even approaching the mountain. because, you know, it's not a conquering feat. We don't conquer any part of nature. You know, it's a very surrendering, devotional, spiritual journey or almost like a pilgrimage for me. That's Waspia Nazarene, a woman who has redefined what it means to be a mountaineer and a human rights advocate. She's the first Bangladeshi to climb the Seven Summits and the only Bengali to reach the top of K2, one of the deadliest peaks on Earth. But what makes Waspia extraordinary isn't the mountains she's summited.

0:39It's why she climbs them. I'm Shelby Stanger, and this is Wild Ideas Worth Living, an REI Co-op Studios production presented by Capital One and the REI Co-op MasterCard.

0:53For Waspia Nazarene, every big mountain expedition is both a spiritual practice and a form of activism. In 2014, National Geographic named her Adventure of the Year while she was climbing the Seven Summits. The goal of this project was to raise awareness about women's rights and progress in her home country of Bangladesh. When she isn't climbing mountains, Waspia travels the world, inspiring others to push their limits and connect with nature.

1:26Waspia Nazreen, welcome to Wild Ideas Worth Living. You have truly lived a wild life. Thank you, Shelby and REI, for having me. Of course. Where are you right now? I'm sitting in a studio in Venice Beach, California. Awesome. I want to get into Los Angeles because you grew up in such a different place. Yes. So let's just start from the beginning. You know, where did you grow up and what was your relationship to nature growing up as a kid? I was born and raised up to my adult life in a country called Bangladesh. It's a very young country. Like my parents lived through the independence war. And so, yeah, everything about Bangladesh is related to nature.

2:14You know, my dad worked in shipping and so we were in the Bay of Bengal, which is the largest delta on the planet. We, as a kid, I have clear images of witnessing the mother's fury, like typhoons, floods, like anything and everything that you can think of happen in front of our eyes. Like we have villages after villages that are taken over by the river every monsoon season. So growing up, without even having anyone teaching us, we kind of knew who the boss in the room was. It was Mother Nature. You know, we lived at her mercies. And, you know, throughout our cultural or historical stories, there's just this whole adoration or, you know, this word in Western world, like devotion towards Mother.

3:07That's so interesting. And also just as we are shifting in a world where like natural disasters are happening more in places like Los Angeles and San Diego. Texas. You know. Everywhere. Yeah, Texas. Yeah. How did you get to the United States? So a little bit about before coming to United States. I come from a broken family. It's a very long story. But in short, my parents were divorced when I was 12 going into 13. And I was kind of moved into a relative's house to just to give background about South Asian girl. Like in our society, the ultimate summit for any girl is marriage. And so at that time, even as a young adolescent, I could tell that I became a burden for my relatives, you know.

3:58and I wanted to just get out of there. I just didn't want to be a weight on any of my relative's shoulders who thought from their very good intention that they needed to marry me off. And so I wanted to run away from that. And the only way to get out was education for me. And so I requested my aunt at that time, who I had moved into my relative's house in the capital, and I requested her to strategically put me in an English medium school at that age. because in my mind, my ticket out was college. That's the only way. Because if I lived back in Bangladesh and went to college there, the next step would be, hey, where do we marry her off?

4:37Because here I was carrying the shame of the family as the girl, right? So fast forward to when I turned, I think, 17, going into 18, I applied to a whole bunch of colleges around the world. And this one college in the U.S. gave me 100 % scholarship. And because I had no money, without thinking twice, I chose that college and had the vision in my mind that I was coming to New York because that's all I knew about America. And my college was in Decatur, Georgia. Yeah, I went to school one city away from Decatur, Georgia at Emory. And so I'm at the exact same time that you were there. And it's a shock.

5:18It was culturally different than San Diego. It was culturally different than anywhere, you know, and there was this whole Dirty South hip-hop genre movement was going on. Culturally, what I learned about America by going to Atlanta, I wouldn't change that for a thing in the world now. I think it was the most diverse experience I could have gotten. It's so interesting talking to you because I've talked to a ton of mountaineers, but none have had your background. What was the very first time you ever climbed a mountain? Depends how you define a mountain. So now I do big mountains. So it's kind of embarrassing talking about the younger ones.

5:54Like, when can you call a mountain a mountain? But in Bangladesh, from a child's perspective, my first mountain or hill was at the age of six. There's a temple on top of it. It's called Chandranath Temple and the mountain is called Chandranath. And in Chittagong, it's barely like 1 ,200 feet. But at that time, it looked major. and all my relatives were struggling at the bottom of it. And my dad actually reminded me when I summited Evers that that was my first mountain. I was there before anyone, and apparently I was sitting inside the temple. So it sounds like you're naturally athletic, but you also have this desire to really push yourself outside of your comfort zone.

6:40I mean, honestly, when I look back, I have, astrologically speaking, certain placement in my chart too. I'm very driven since I was a kid. I was very like, you know, as a child, the things I had to do at the age of 12 before I even got my period, you know, not having a single parent to look after you. I think those were the real mountains I climbed. And I just didn't want to be one of those young women who gets married off. Trauma takes you places, girl. So the short answer to how I get to the mountain tops is unresolved childhood trauma. I'm only laughing because someone just asked me, like, what are all the participants of your podcast sharing in common?

7:24I was like, well, not all of them, but a lot have had. Unresolved childhood trauma. Or just trauma or, you know, also just a strong desire to be a better person. But a lot of them who do the super extreme stuff, yeah, I mean, you got to work some stuff out. Yeah, and I also recognize that, forget about mountains. like even as an expeditions expert or managing expeditions, you know, or designing your own expeditions, like the chaos that goes in leading up to an expedition. I think it's a replica of the chaos that I went through as a child. And that's why I do so well. And even though now I've gone through years of therapy, I'm much more calmer, I'm like trauma-free, whatever.

8:06But I still love the chaos of it because I'm a problem solver. Otherwise, it's just boring.

8:19Throughout her childhood, Waspia learned how to create calm in a world of chaos. That skill turned out to be incredibly valuable as she figured out her next steps. When she was in college, Waspia visited India for a research project. The last stop on her trip was especially impactful. In that trip, which was a very long trip, and there were several locations that I had to go to, the last destination was a place called Dharamsala in northern part of India, which is where the Tibetan people, exiled Tibetan people from Tibet are based. So those who may not be aware, Tibet, the country was occupied by China in 1949.

9:02And since then, millions of Tibetans have become refugees all around the world. and the first place that they come to is that northern tip of India that I'm talking about. And I still remember sitting there bawling my eyes out, thinking like, look at these people who's lost their whole motherland. Like they've gone through extreme torture and dictatorship and harassment and all kinds of negative things that you can think of. And so on that flight back, I was reflecting on all of that And I just instinctively knew that there was something waiting for me in Dharamsala. And I didn't know what that was.

9:41And the timeline at that point was that I would come back to Decatur, Georgia, graduate, and I was supposed to move to San Francisco after that. But in that flight back, I just made a hardcore decision that, nope, I'm coming back. Waspia decided to move to Dharamsala. She sold her belongings in the States and bought a one-way ticket back to India. Once she arrived, she found work as a journalist and began building her new life. She immersed herself in Tibetan Buddhism, started a deep meditation practice, and ended up forming a relationship with the Dalai Lama himself. So in Theram Sala, everything is kind of based around the Tibetan diaspora.

10:26And His Holiness the Dalai Lama is based out of there. So a lot of people has moved to the town because of the work, the human rights work or any kind of work related to Tibetan people. So I became a Dharamsala correspondent for the largest Tibetan English newspaper at that time because the entire news media is controlled by Chinese Communist Party and there's zero news coming out about Tibetans. So I became kind of by default an informer because I was a journalist, but I had to secretly go in and out, you know, Tibet, Daramsala, India, Nepal, all of these territories where Tibetans were there.

11:07And in fact, for a lot of years, I used a pseudonym because of my own safety. And so the most important person in the diaspora is obviously the Dalai Lama. And part of my work, which I didn't know at that time, was to follow His Holiness around. So by default, the first official gig of my adult life was the special correspondent for His Holiness the Dalai Lama. Just not before, before even meeting him, just being around his presence brought a certain level of like, like my mind just like went, like you would prepare for so much every time, but there's nothing that exists in their presence. It's just love and compassion.

11:51So it was one of the most blissful time of my life, even when I look back now.

12:02Dharamsala is nestled in the foothills of the Himalayas in northern India. There, Vassvya lived in a humble house with limited heat and electricity. Still, it was a magical time for her, and she was able to focus on her spirituality and meditation practice. Over the next seven years, Waspia built a community of friends who all climb mountains together. Because of the region that we were in, like the nearest places was, there was no pubs, there was like 5 ,000, 6 ,000 meter peaks where my friends were climbing. So I just went over the weekend to learn. But anyway, long story short, it was during that period that I was going off to 4 ,000, 5 ,000, 6 ,000 meter peaks.

12:40And I realized that these, regardless of how long or short these journeys were, these were kind of like pilgrimages. These weekend trips had a big impact on Waspia. For one thing, trekking in the Himalayas helped her develop a more spiritual connection to the mountains. For another, the friends she was climbing with were active in the Free Tibet movement. And spending time with them led her to do more human rights advocacy work. Eventually, she started working full-time at a non-profit that focused on women's empowerment.

13:16So I reached a point in my development career where I realized that I, you know, Bangladesh by itself had really progress in terms of women's rights. That was basically my concentration on stopping violence against women. And so while I was reaching kind of like a peak in my development career, I was also wanting to get out of it because I felt like I had given enough and I had reached a place where I didn't really grow anymore from my work. I would work and then whatever I would have saved little money, I would go off to the mountains. I was in Nepal in 2010 when I took the decision that I would jump on this campaign called Bangladesh on Seven Summits, where I would physically go walk to the highest mountain of every continent, which figuratively portrays what women in our country go through on a daily basis without even having to step on a mountain.

14:13And then also Bangladesh at that time hadn't been to any of these mountaintops. So it was a putting Bangladesh on top of every, you know, continental summits, but also highlighting at the same time how far women in our country had come and also recognize how far we can still go. So that was my mission for the seven summits. So when you go do this, you don't have a ton of money. You've been a human rights activist and a journalist. Yeah. You don't just contact Adidas in the North Face and be like, hey, I'm climbing. How do you fund this? Another humongous leap of faith. Thank God I was 27. And if it was now, I would think differently.

14:57People didn't have much exposure on mountains in Bangladesh to begin with. All they knew was Everest. And so for them to fund me for smaller mountains was a mission. So A, before I even announced the campaign, I sold off everything that I could. Got rid of my rented apartment, moved into a friend's parents' home. So I minimized all my costs, then took out a bunch of personal loans, ended up taking a bank loan. Now, I don't know about American system or anyone who's listening from different countries, what your country's system is. But in Bangladesh at that time, we only had bank loans for college education, buying a car and a fridge or something like that.

15:38There was no provision to give bank loan for climbing a mountain. So to convince the board of a Bangladeshi-owned bank to give me money for trips that I may not return from was probably one of the hardest mountain I have climbed.

15:57In 2011, Waspia decided to combine her passion for mountaineering with her humanitarian work by climbing the seven summits of the world.

16:13Waspia Nazreen started the seven summits by climbing Mount Kilimanjaro in Tanzania in 2011. From there, she summited Mount Aconcagua in Argentina before preparing to attempt Mount Everest in Nepal. Each expedition pushed her limits as she confronted thin air, freezing temperatures, and difficult terrain. Although all of these climbs were physically grueling, the biggest challenges were mental and spiritual. What do the mountains do for you? Because every time you climb one, you could die. There's all sorts of horrific things you go through. I always feel a different person when I come back from a big mountain.

16:53So when I'm talking about big mountain, I mean like, you know, Dead Zone Mountains or mountains, the Himalayan Mountains. So that's where I started my career to begin with. Every mountain that I've climbed in my life, I try to connect to the spirit before even approaching the mountain. And I think this humility, and I bring up humility because in big mountains, you see how different egos come out. Like some of the egos of our mountaineers is bigger than the mountains they have climbed. And I don't align with that, I think, because I also have seen the majority of these mountaineers in their worst days and how, you know, it's not a conquering feat.

17:36We don't conquer any part of nature. You know, it's a very surrendering, devotional, spiritual journey or almost like a pilgrimage for me. Will you tell me a little bit about that process? What's your approach to climbing a mountain? I'm just I'm curious how it's how it's a spiritual practice for you versus like something to climb up, take an Instagram photo and come down and whatever, whatever it is. I mean, everybody has their own mountain and way of climbing it, but yours is a little bit different than people I've interviewed. Yeah, most Sherpa people actually climb this way. So let's talk about Chomaluma.

18:16Chomaluma is Everest also is the Western name. Okay. So her entity, it means the goddess of inexhaustible giving, which means she will never stop giving you, only and only if you follow and abide by her rules. So there are scriptures that are dedicated to her that are hundreds of years old. There are certain prayer rituals. I'm not saying you have to do this. I'm just saying that was my process. So that was introduced to me by my teacher, His Holiness the 14 Dalai Lama. So I tried certain practices to connect with Mjolang Sangma, who's the goddess of inexhaustible giving, way before even approaching the mountain, I would connect with her, you know, or try to connect with her in meditation.

19:02and then before going to or let's say in base camp we make an altar and have a puja which is puja means a prayer ceremony where we even bring like inanimate objects like the ice axe or ropes or things that we would be hitting the mountain with because the whole mountain is her body and then we ask for forgiveness on behalf of you know ice axe like everything that we're bringing And the scriptures literally ask for forgiveness from her beforehand and says that we will move only when you show us the signs that our path has been made safe. And then there are certain signs that we look for, for example, a raven sitting on a mask.

19:48And then only when we get the positive signs, we have a celebration with barley and a lot of whiskey. That's what Shepa people give. But I climbed Chumulungma when I was 29. I'm still benefiting from her at this age of 43 because she doesn't stop giving. So I'm curious, though, like the Dalai Lama has also been was instrumental in that climb. And not everybody can say like no one I've interviewed is like, oh, yeah, the Dalai Lama was the one who told me to, you know, and I know through your work, part of your work was to shadow the Dalai Lama. But like anybody who can connect with him is so lucky.

20:26So I'm just curious, you know, what did he teach you and impart with you that you think you took with you that really helped you on Chomaluma? So we had, so with His Holiness, I also had formal education. But aside from any formal teachings that I've gotten from him, just being around him and the simple things that he says or the laughters he gives, there's certain realization that happens in your own mind if you're connected to that energy. There were years of mentorship where he tried to help me heal in many different ways without actually being direct about it, but take on the suffering that I was still holding against my parents.

21:08So whenever I would hit a roadblock with my mom, for example, there were certain things he asked me to practice. And then holiness would always say, but who cares? Your biggest mother is Mother Earth, you know, like you're always disconnected. And so I didn't quite realize what he was referring to. And then leading up to it was kind of parallel, like leading up to the big mountains. And so when I told him that I was going to go for Everest was part of, you know, the seven summons. Somehow he turned the lens on to Chomulungma as my mother. And, you know, starting from the scripture to how to approach her in certain practices, all of that was taught by him over time.

21:59Before Waspia set out to climb Everest, she started visualizing it in her meditations. In framing Everest as her mother, Waspia felt a stronger connection to the mountain. That connection instilled a sense of confidence in her, regardless of the challenges she might face. After months of physical training and a lot of spiritual work, Wasfi and her friend and climbing partner Nima started their summit push late in the season. Conditions were rough. Avalanches were ripping through the Kumbu Icefall, and the weather windows were closing almost as fast as they opened. It had been the deadliest season on the mountain since 1996.

22:43surviving out there mentally i think is one of the biggest thing that we have to overcome i've seen international you know like very high class athletes back off because we they couldn't mentally deal with it because ever gives you a reason to give up every single day you know every single moment there's a reason to give up. So to not give up and stay there when things are being destroyed and you're in an avalanche and your things have been broken. And every time that would happen on Everest, I would be given a dream to move forward. There are many, many stories of Sherpa people dreaming her too.

23:25Many other Sherpas, they have abandoned their climbs because Chamulungma would come in their dream and tell them that you're overdoing it, you know, back off. And towards the end of my expedition, my camp got destroyed literally right before the summit push, which people may be familiar that, you know, summit push happens towards the end of the season. And so in that season, there were only three nights that we could go up in. It became the second deadliest season. I've had friends die, not my expedition, but during that same season. So mentally crossing dead bodies, just surviving out there. When my camp got destroyed, there was literally every single person told me, there's no way you can get to the top.

24:15These are the options. But I was given certain dreams and then I have goosebumps down. On the last night, last two nights, I felt like a force was pulling me from my center. It's like this goddess energy is like, come. And me and Nima reached on top of the world at the time that the sun was rising, which is still one of the most, if not the most beautiful experience of my life. And, you know, by the time I came down, everything was different for me. My reality was very different.

24:53On May 26, 2012, Waspia summited Mount Everest. Shortly after her descent, she went to visit the Dalai Lama. He always gives me an amulet before any big journey. And that amulet had broken during that Lhotsefe's avalanche, cracked at the middle. And so later, many months later, when I actually submitted and came back, I took the broken amulet back to him. And then he just said, time for a new one. They gave me another new one. But I brought him some water from the summit of Chomulungma because I had seen how much devotion he has towards Chomulungma. And by the time that, well, it was ice from the summit.

25:37By the time that ice went from the summit of Everest to Katmundo to Dhaka, capital of Bangladesh, to Delhi, to Dharamsala. It was the stinkiest liquid. Like I still remember, like carrying it, standing in line, like going to holiness. And I'm like, oh my God, how am I even going to present it to him? So I, before I even present it, because he was being narrated that this is water from the top of Jomolungma. And I remember thinking in my mind, whatever you do, holiness, don't drink it. And you know, in Tibetan practice, they have to offer it when you receive such a sacred thing. So he offered it four times in four directions.