Living The Life We Have with Rob Shaver

0:04I think it's within the capacity of all of us to be able to filter our lives through a magical lens. And I'm not saying that there aren't dark times and there aren't times where you have all the stages of grief. It's still within our capacity, though, to be able to plug into beauty and meaning, even in the most challenging circumstance.

0:28Rob Shaver has been living with stage 4 cancer for over 20 years. He's had multiple recurrences, been through multiple rounds of chemotherapy, and received more than 60 radiation treatments. In 2020, after he finished chemo to fight his third recurrence, Rob started running. Some days he couldn't complete a single mile, but getting outside and moving his body helped him feel like he was wringing as much juice out of life as he could. Rob ended up running for 1 ,175 days straight, which is just over three years. During this run streak, Rob completed numerous races from half marathons to ultras like the Trans Rockies and the Bandera 100K.

1:14Since his diagnosis 20 years ago, life has been unpredictable. but running has provided him a constant source of comfort. I'm Shelby Stanger, and this is Wild Ideas Worth Living, an REI Co-op Studios production presented by Capital One and the REI Co-op MasterCard. We recorded this conversation with Rob more than a year ago. Since then, his health has declined significantly. We're sharing his story now with the blessing of Rob's family because his resilience and his message of hope continue to inspire us, and we believe it deserves to be heard.

1:57Rob Shaver, welcome to Wild Ideas Worth Living. I'm really excited to be here with you today. Oh, likewise. I'm just so honored to be on and excited to talk to you and just share a few minutes together. Well, you're so sweet. So I'm curious, like what was your relationship with the outdoors growing up? Yeah, you know, as a late teenager, like so many other people, you know, I read a couple of books. You know, you read your first crack hour book or start reading John Muir, Into the Wild and Into Thin Air and all those kind of books all those years ago. And then you're, you know, just, you know, super motivated to get out there and do something yourself.

2:39And then it really blossomed for me. So did you start going camping or hiking or trail running? Because I don't know if everybody's read like Krakauer and John Muir, but I think a lot of people listening to this podcast probably have. Exactly. Yeah, kind of like the, you know, almost like the, you know, the requisite quiver of books, you know, to kind of prepare your mind and body for adventure. You know, I would say in Arkansas, where I was from, you know, the Ozark Mountains are really beautiful and not a lot of people know about. So it was definitely like hiking and camping and just being out there and experiencing it slowly and enjoyable.

3:18And interestingly enough, so much of my love for the outdoors and gaining so much joy and perspective from the outdoors goes hand in hand with getting sick.

3:36In 2004, Rob was diagnosed with stage 4 Ewing sarcoma, a bone cancer with a high incidence in children and young adults. At the time of his diagnosis, Rob was only 28 years old, and his prognosis wasn't good. The doctors expected he wouldn't live more than a few years, but Rob has defied what anyone thought was possible.

4:03When did you get sick? You know, in 2004, I had a 15 % chance to live five years. Well, you sure surpassed what they thought. Yeah, and obviously I've had multiple recurrences since then. So, you know, now we're just so off book. There is no real precedent for anything like this. no there's you know there's no real there's no real journal articles to read or any any kind of peers to find this is the circumstance this is the diagnosis this is the prognosis there in the midst of that moment I looked for encouragement and stories of other people who had just overcome anything I remember reading a book about a young lady that had survived the genocide in Rwanda.

4:56And I listened to tapes over and over about people that had overcome certain things and I was looking for hope. But I do know that if 20 years ago, I would have heard about someone who had lived to be nearly 50 and had gotten diagnosed, you know, at that point with that kind of prognosis, it would have been a huge encouragement to me. So let's go back. You were diagnosed at 28, which is really young. But you said that's kind of also when you leaned into adventure. Mm-hmm. I would say in general, just movement. Movement is medicine. It felt so organic and helpful to just move. It was just getting out there and being able to smell, you know, to observe the world in a grain of sand, you know.

5:44Just every moment trying to drink in as much as I could. But we had a local, like a local mountain where I live, just a small little like 600 foot climb to the top, but a 360 degree view. And I would just go out there and that was, I would do it over. I would just, I mean, every day, hundreds of times in a year, over and over. And that's just something that I had just right there, experiencing the outdoors as deeply as I could, just right there on that little mountain in the Ouachitas. I think what's so cool is that you found a piece of nature that brought you, you know, a lot of healing and a lot of joy just right outside your door.

6:22Yep. You didn't need to travel far for it. Yeah, that's that quote by William James. To see the universe in a wildflower is to observe eternity in an hour. I love that quote. I don't think I've ever heard that before. Yeah, so I mean, the challenge in so many things is you don't have to be doing the most incredible thing all the time to be able to drink in the beauty that's around us just right there. It's right here with you all the time.

6:58Unless he was feeling particularly weak or was stuck in the hospital, Rob made it a priority to move his body outside. Sometimes that was a walk in his neighborhood in San Antonio or hiking a nearby trail with his mom and brother. In June of 2020, 16 years into his diagnosis, Rob was well enough to go on a run. Running outside made him feel alive, so he kept at it every single day for just over three years. He ended up running 1 ,175 days in a row, logging just over 7 ,500 miles. you decided to keep running yeah no matter what no matter what talk to me about this I had doctors that were very honest and open with me then I said well I tried to run so many miles today or is it okay if I go out to the local mountain and try to make it up to the top and they're like go for it and it started just so simply and so many things are relative to what your circumstance is.

8:05Yeah, there've been many, many, many, many days that I couldn't make it around the lake in the local neighborhood that's a mile around. That was the best I could do, but I still gave everything I could that day. And a lot of those days there was blood on my shirt. A lot of those days I was coughing up blood, but I still saw it through the lens of appreciation to be able to do whatever it is I could do. And I wasn't going to quit moving until I, yeah yeah I was going to give everything I could um to continue and no doubt I believed that it benefited me on so many fronts so so many so yeah it was it was a big part of my healing physically and psychologically when you did your run streak you did it outside you could have done it on treadmill like you could have like there's days where it's not always hot in Texas I get it.

8:54Like there are cold days. Why? Oh, I love, I mean, I can't tell you how much, like when I was in school, like in grad school and stuff, I used to go to the trail and take my notes with me. And we're talking about like some pretty gnarly single track kind of stuff. Any possible opportunity I had to be in nature in some form, I was going to try to make that happen. Absolutely. And then that's just reinforced if you have to go through something like inpatient chemotherapy where you're laying in the bed all the time and you're hooked up to stuff. And you understand that this is necessary and that there's a whole world of doctors out there that love you and care about you and are trying to help you.

9:36But you have to live in the hospital for days at a time. And it just makes that need to be out there and experience that much more. So absolutely get outside just in whatever capacity. I loved seeing the landscaping in people's yards change. and how much care that people had about their new plants. I mean, in my neighborhood, I'm sure, I mean, I've run thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of miles. Tell me what you've seen. Like, I'm curious. Oh, yeah. Like when people change the plants out in the front of their house and are working on adding something. And for all of us, that seems incredibly mundane.

10:12But for somebody else at that space that they live in, that's them beautifying the world around them. For Rob, running is a spiritual practice. It provides him a way to be fully present, and it's something that's become incredibly important during his health journey. A few months into his daily running routine, Rob surprised himself and his doctors when he gained enough strength to compete in longer distance races. Over the next few years, he was able to run a half marathon, then a 50K, then a 50 miler, and several other ultras.

10:52Is there a race that during that time really stuck out for you? I think for me, Bandera. I did the Bandera 100. When? I did that January of 2022. For those of us who are clueless, what is this race? so it's an ultra marathon you know that's 100 kilometers long it's one that's well known because it's called a golden ticket qualifier for the western states you know which is the oldest 100 mile or in the world um and this is one of the races that if somebody wins it they get an automatic um you know golden ticket into western states so it's really famous and you know super well known And how many miles and over what terrain and what weather?

11:34Yeah. Oh, wow. Yeah. So 62 miles, so 100 kilometers over kind of rolling rocky with cactus and so tall, that stuff that kind of pokes into you. The weather in January was 30s, 40s, misty, cold. What was it like? Like, how did you keep going? Because I've never run that. I've never even run a marathon. Yeah. You know, I think for me, and I mean this, I truly mean this, and I hope it doesn't sound cliche, the longer and longer and longer that I've lived and felt so grateful to, because like I said, and I want to make sure this is very clear. I have met some incredible, incredible people going through cancer who are courageous and strong.

12:23And I know if they were still here, that they would be enjoying their life and drinking it in and spreading love and hope and learning so much from their experience. And I've never, ever, ever thought that there was anything special about me. So I just wanted to use their energy and their memories to keep me going.

12:47you do these races and i've seen you run and you look pretty good like you got solid form you're a good runner i was and people can't necessarily tell that you're sick yep so you tell people like how does that how does that change your interactions with people on the on the you have this like in some ways an invisible illness. Yeah, I've certainly experienced that too. I can name you many, many times that, that there were circumstances in which people would just judge you based on what they see on the outside. If you have your, I mean, for cancer patients specifically, when you don't have your hair and all that stuff, it's easy to see.

13:33And then when your hair comes back, they think you're good to go. And that's very rarely the case. In fact, so many cancer patients, their hair comes back because chemotherapy is not working or something like that. You know, there's a lot to that. No, it's something that means a lot to me because I know, unfortunately, over the years, I've had the lack of empathy from people because they have an idea in their mind of what malady is or what sick is. So I think the most important thing for any of us then is we don't know. We don't know what's happening over there. We don't know what's happening in the house next to us.

14:09We don't know what's happening in the cars that are driving next to us on the freeway. So hopefully that kind of thing elicits more compassion because the picture of trial and real struggle can have a lot of faces.

14:28You can't always tell what's going on with someone just by looking at them. Even though the endurance races provided incredible experiences, Rob says he was occasionally heckled for his relatively slow pace, but he never stopped running. With each step, Rob felt profound gratitude for his body that, despite everything it's been through, has carried him across some incredible adventures.

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16:02Rob Shaver was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer 22 years ago. Since then, he's defied the odds, not only surviving, but also competing in multiple marathons and even ultras. His running journey has been a family affair, with Rob's mom and younger brother training alongside him. In 2022, Rob ran the Bandera 100K, crossing the finish line in the middle of the night. It was dark and cold, but his mom was there cheering him on. In both his running and his cancer treatment, Rob's family has been an incredible source of strength and support. You are so close to your mom and brother. They sound really amazing.

16:44Oh, thanks. They are. They've sacrificed, truly, truly sacrificed so much. Caregivers throughout all of this, I see what they've been through, and I know the knots. I was in inpatient chemotherapy, so I stayed in the hospital for weeks at a time. How many nights have I seen my mom sleep next to my bed? And your mom and brother also run with you. Yeah, so I can remember several times that we entered a race and they ran with me, you know. I think for one of the first ones was like a 20K, so like 12 miles, you know. And I think they were probably more emotional about me. And like you said, I have so much of these finishes and stuff, like Bandera, you know, I finished and it was the middle of the night.

17:31There was nobody standing there but my mom when I finished that kind of thing. So they were the ones that were like, and they had seen firsthand. They're the ones that knew, that knew what I was, what the situation was. So to be able to like share something like that together was like a miracle.

17:57Even if others can't always see the long journey that Rob has traveled, his family knows how hard it's been. In 2023, Rob's health declined and he was forced to end his running streak. But that hasn't kept him from getting outside and moving whenever he can.

18:20When you run, how do you feel? like what does running do for you yeah and what's interesting now and i'll just be is i'm not able to right now and that's okay i've experienced so much of it and i've been able to walk and i'm enjoying that just as much you know it's so relative i love your laugh thank you it's like a burton ernie kind of laugh it's such a happy laugh um it makes me feel you know i think and And I'll be honest, my brother has seen it, my mom has seen it. It's been hard, too. Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, you're going through the hardest thing out of anybody. Like, yeah, what you do every day is incredibly difficult.

19:03No, and you recognize that everybody, you know, wants to be kind for everyone who's fighting a hard battle. It's relative, though. I am so lucky, Shelby. This is just the truth. I know you've interviewed lots of people. For me to sit here and talk to you, I know that a very imperfect young guy, 28 years old, and just normal, whatever, was diagnosed stage four, and I'm still here talking to you at 48. I mean, yeah, I'm just, I mean, I'm grateful. I'm grateful. Obviously, to survive this kind of cancer takes a certain mental fortitude. and I know you keep saying you're you're just lucky and you know but also to do an ultra marathon takes some mental fortitude so is there something you say to yourself while going through these times that that goes through your head when you're going through really hard or are you singing because I also know you're a singer so so much so much I think the thing that um especially something like this that's lasted this long it's been a lifelong process Shelby of psychological constructs and being able to deal with situations and circumstance whether that's reading the Bhagavad Gita and trying to sound like a super nerd to Dr.

20:28Seuss I like Dr. Seuss too I love the spectrum this is a good spectrum absolutely you know there are some profound kind of paradigm switches that happen when you're given kind of the there's a 50 50 chance you're going to live to be 30 years old kind of situation which was mine the one that i always have used and i'm a big fan of eckhart tolle the power of now is accept all circumstances as if it's the one you would have chosen and of course another easier way to say that is i am right where i need to be I have used tools and mantras and ways to reframe my circumstance. I have certainly used present moment awareness and acceptance and finding purpose and meaning and learning to embrace what's difficult.

21:26I mean, obviously, anybody that interviews a thru-hiker talks about embracing the suck. I'm not saying it's the worst thing in the world, but stage four, you know, those are pretty rough circumstances. And when you see this as, except all circumstances, as if it's the one you would have chosen, there's a significant paradigm switch in how you move throughout your day and how you behave. You're just like this giant ball of compassion and kindness. Oh, I appreciate it. You are. You're just like such a nice human. You know, I'm sure there's people listening who are battling some sort of unseen disability or illness.

22:06Any advice to them? Yeah, it's tough. I think the advice I would probably be some of it the same that I would hopefully give to anybody to just really, really, really stay present. And like I said earlier, this is a very Viktor Frankl thing to say. Sorry, I'm quoting so many people. I like Viktor Frankl. It's okay. It's finding some place that you find joy and you find meaning and making sure you stay there as often as you can and walk through the world with honesty and transparency and this resolve to find a reason, a real joy to get up in the morning and do anything. And then, as Viktor Frankl would say, or any of us have learned, then give effort.

23:01Give effort. It takes an action, a doing, to some degree, to really turn lead into gold. It doesn't have to be anything wild. I mean, it almost pinches me a little bit, and I surely don't want a ton of credit for it, that in my state, to able to cover that many thousands of miles or whatnot. But it all started with just around the block one time.

23:30Rob's remarkable story is the subject of a new film by REI titled The Life We Have. We'll leave you with a clip from the movie where Rob is singing for his friends and family at a small concert. Rob has been a musician for a long time, but because of his cancer, he only has one fully functioning lung. Throughout his treatments, singing has helped him with his breathing and his lung capacity. The ability to make music has always been a comfort and a source of joy for Rob. Plus, his voice is beautiful. Thank y 'all so much for coming out. I don't really know what to say. A lot of you know the health, my health situation.

24:16And many years ago, when the doctor told me that I might have to live the rest of my life on oxygen. I got real lucky that when I went home and looked up, one of the best things you can do for your lung is sing. Amen. Thank you. Right? I'm going to cry in this one. Oh, God. Oh, God. Will God von der Huyte Will hear my prayer

25:02In my need Where you have always been To find out more about the film, you can go to thelifewehavefilm.com. We'll also include a link in the show notes. Wild Ideas Worth Living is part of the REI Podcast Network. It's hosted by me, Shelby Stanger, produced by Annie Fassler, Sylvia Thomas, and Sam Pierce-Nitzberger Puddle Creative. Our senior producer is Jenny Barber. Our executive producers are Paola Motula and Joe Crosby. Thanks again to our partner, Capital One, and the REI Co-op MasterCard. As always, we love it when you follow the show, take time to rate it, and write a review wherever you listen.

25:49And remember, some of the best adventures happen when you follow your wildest ideas.

26:00Bring him home