Coaching Champions : The Playbook for High Performance Living | Dan Lawrence | S3 Ep02

36:06How do you adjust on the fly? For those people first, I'll come to how I adjust in a second, I'd say try and take a zoom out approach and look for a slightly different lens because people are just in there, oh, putting out fires. They're so reactive to everything. So try and take a step back for a moment and just see, okay, what can I control? And also what's important to me, you said there, like Tony Robbins bucket analogy that will stay with me for life is identify three or four things that you truly place value on. So health, performance, gym, whatever we call it, that's one, right? sleep nutrition that all falls into that bucket the next one relationships and family for you like super important right um the next one is probably business okay there's three let's keep it simple three and you don't have an infinite amount of water okay so some of them i hold my hands up in the past relationships malnourished not getting enough thankfully i've tried to you know improve that now and it has improved so i'm not perfect i'm chasing those wins every single day and trying to become a better leader a better business owner a better boyfriend and a better son to my mom like that's what i focus on right um but there's having the awareness of the okay that needs a bit more love that needs a bit more tlc so that's the first thing and your second part of the question i think you've i think you've nailed it really it's like how do people i mean the second part is you individually how do you overcome it yeah it's how how do people overcome yeah I suppose how do people create order around those things that are super important to them and then if they've created order and something comes in that's a bit of a curveball how do they overcome that so I think you've got to have a foundation in place first so it starts with what's important to you so that's what I just explained the foundation can be the four pillars training nutrition recovery and mindset mindset's the glue that holds the other three together for me it's how you show up consistently every day so then when you know where you're going the goals what's important to you then you have the four pillars in place you have a foundation and if you're thrown a curveball you simply adapt and react you've got to be a chameleon in this game of life right you've got to be able to adapt to your environment and change accordingly i'm a sucker for structure and i think i said to you offline only like the last seven to ten days have been wild you know connor ben's fight was originally meant to be september the 20th i was on the uh on the flight back from bali with my girlfriend filling the relationship bucket up and just about to touch down on the runway, my phone popping off saying the fight's now off.

38:23I was meant to have three days in Dubai and then dive back into two months with Connor in immersive training camp. So I've scrambled a little bit and managed to sort some other bits out, came back to London to see my mum and do some other business meetings and talk to yourself. But that adaptability is key, is to yes, be structured, yes, know where you're going, yes, have goals and clear actionable steps on a daily, weekly, monthly basis and what you want to achieve per quarter. But also know that it's not always going to go to plan. There's so many curveballs. And as a high performer and people who are at the top of their craft, you're also going to get curveballs, good curveballs thrown at you.

38:55And then you've got to identify whether it's worth catching and rolling with or maybe saying no. And I think there's a real power in saying no as well. Yeah, that's great insight. You've referenced Connor there. He won't mind us talking a little bit about him. We've had him on the podcast before. Honestly, one of the best guests I've had. I think someone often misunderstood because of the bravado and everything he has to come across on social media and in the media. But I had a really, really great conversation with him. And myself and Sam actually said we want to get him back for a second episode.

39:25You're someone that knows him incredibly well on a personal level, an intimate level, being his high-performance coach. We were speaking before we started recording about what it's like in camp with someone like that. What are the things that you're thinking about to ensure that come fight night, he's at his very best? And Charlie was in the conversation. It was actually, you unearthed a few nuggets there that often people wouldn't assume, right? We understand people have strength and conditioning coaches or people in their corner, they have their team. But every little bit of detail, and it's very clear, probably everyone that's listened to the previous 45 minutes of this conversation, you are meticulous in the detail and you sweat all the small stuff.

40:02And you've really taken this to the nth degree, which is why you're at the level you're at as a coach and as an operator yourself. Can you just give us, there's no real questions here around camp. Just give me some insight into what it's like in the build up to camp, being around an athlete like that. and what are the things that you're thinking about that people wouldn't necessarily understand as someone in Connor's corner? Yeah, thanks, Ollie. I appreciate that. Connor's top, you know, he's a top guy and he makes me look good as the head of performance because he just dialed in and he is all gas and no brakes and I think that's where the respect level of myself and him come into play is that he'll listen.

40:36And in boxing, one of my former athletes, John Ryder, had a great quote, old school values, modern methods. And it's the values in boxing have to be old school. we like that grit we like that locking yourself away dialing in towards a specific goal because it's the fight game at the end of the day it's either you know you win or lose but when you lose you're on your ass quite literally it's high octane as we know and why we love it so those old school values need to be there but the modern methods that's something that I've fought for the last 15 years of getting into boxing and you know Connor embodies all of those we love the data when in camp so a couple of things I have his whoop on my phone so every morning he's like Dan, what's my numbers?

41:13What's my numbers? I'll be honest, and Connor, if you listen, I'm sorry, there's a few white lies in there as well. You know, if he's in the red, I'll take that information on board. I'll let him know he's in a good place because otherwise he'll get in his head. And then we'll inform our decisions as we go, you know, speaking to the head coach, Tony, and maybe start manipulating the training outputs on the basis of that data. But we don't just take WOOP data as a singular entity. We take objective markers. We also look at neuromuscular readiness testing. We do three jumps at the start of every session.

41:39We see if there's like a 12 % decrement in the jump scores that that might impact whether he's ready, whether he's fatigued. Then, of course, subjective markers. And 20 years in the game, the coach's eye, I can see if he's warming up a little bit, relax. Is everything okay? And on the subject of that, Oli, you're like this. He was on the ring ropes one day. I saw his little body language and posture was a little bit flatter than normal, should we say. I said, you all right? He said, yeah, yeah. Not the reaction I get from Conor. If I say you're all right, he's like, yeah. What do you mean? Of course I'm all right.

42:07What are you talking about? and anyway I said no bad sessions and he just went up there boom his eyes lit up his shoulders went back posture and outlook completely changed he said oh Dan that hit me man I needed that no bad sessions throughout the camp any point and by the way any point he's slightly down that's very infrequent to be clear I'll say no bad sessions and it'll just we coined the term even on fight night in the changing room I said last words to him were double spud unbelievable training camp best I've ever had no bad sessions go and do what you do and it's those little things that stay with the fighter um again I suppose small things on fight night we found out I think four hours before there were going to be no mirrors in the changing room Connor won't fight if there's no mirrors in the changing room you better rectify that and why that's important again the small stuff the details matter he's been drilling for 12 weeks twice a day in the mirror doing all of his shadow all of his prep that's a problem if there's no mirrors in the changing room and he can't see how he's moving.

43:06So yeah, those things are important. And I think that throughout camp, those details really, really do matter. Every detail, whether it's, you know, me letting the chef know what time the food's got to be ready. What's, you know, what's on the menu for the food. What energy people are bringing, you know, are people bringing some food that may be misaligned to Connor's goal into the house? If they are, they've got to get that out. These details are important. And also going back to non-negotiables, Oli, I think the Michael Jordan effect, I'm certainly not comparing myself to Michael Jordan, but hear me out on this, is the pulling people up to his level, setting the standard.

43:41Connor likes it because I embody high performance. I lead from the front and he sees that. I'm all in, as is he. And that's why it works in that environment where you're chasing every marginal gain and every percentage does matter. Everyone in that house lost weight in camp. His sister lost seven kilos. The chef lost 10 kilos. And Pedro lost 11 kilos, the assistant coach. And that's because we set the standard. We had the food set. everyone was eating similar types of foods no crap in the house we had non-negotiables everyone i created a bit of gamification around the steps it's like how many steps you've done 9 000 right let's go we went for team walks every evening without connor he was chilling um so again that every like a rising tide raised all ships everyone was pulled up to the level um so yeah there's just a few small things i think um in terms of more specifics throughout camp just yeah every every detail like even the music in the changing room we think about the bpm the frequency of the music who's in the changing room energy is important and energy is infectious and on fight night those small things are so so important i really like the little anecdote you shared before about um the ring walk you give us a little insight into that the day before and how you did the rehearsal piece yeah so we rehearsed the ring walk the day prior look for connor this was 60 000 people at tottenham hadn't fought in the uk in two or three years a fight that's steeped in british boxing history and folklore with the fathers who fought in the 90s and huge pressure on that young man's shoulders and also people forget stepping up two weight classes you know he's uh had a lot a lot of unknowns going into that fight and so we rehearsed the ring walk the day prior i think you know that was important and um we had the choir there i don't know if you saw the ring walk on fight night it was just the whole occasion was spectacular and uh just just going out and just rehearsing and visualizing of how it would be i felt like that was quite an important moment so that wouldn't naturally happen fighters don't necessarily rehearse at that level with the choir not really but again there was lots of unknowns so yeah as a team we did that and I think a big thing as well as a team we did everything we were there to support Connor we are simply the backing vocals we are the supporting cast but he certainly draws strength from having a cohesive unit behind him it comes back to just controlling the controllables everything that is within your control control it to the best of your ability I think that's probably what I bring is it's not just the sets and reps guy in the gym it's every detail so Connor can just focus on one thing and that is the fight we take care of absolutely everything else and that's not just me to be clear that's every other team member we all know our roles and Dr Fergus Connolly talks about in a book Game Change he says to reach peak performance you must have synergy between different departments and like we've seen it in performance when we're building businesses and things like the physio doesn't talk to the nutritionist doesn't talk to the personal trainer or the coach.

46:24It's like, how does that work? We follow an athlete-centered model where everyone is ingrained in that with one sole goal and that's to get his arm raised come fight night. Yeah, I think this comes back to everything we talked about, like setting up the environment for success. And we've used the word a couple of times in our communication over the last couple of hours. This immersive experience and really looking at every bit of detail and making it as all-encompassing as possible being the thing to set people up for success. Yeah, I mean, I know that you would have dotted every I, crossed every T, made sure you've ticked every box in the build-up to that fight for Conor, controlled all the controllables.

47:02It's the fight game, right? Get punched in the face. The fight was incredible. Is there anything you're going to take differently into fight number two as you go into camp? Is there any way that you reflect on your own performance and that and go, maybe I could have done this a little bit differently? I think we did a lot very, very well, and I think we can all be immensely proud of the way Conor performed on fight night with so many unknowns that are now known knowns going into the next one, like the ring war, like the occasion, like the opponent, you know, like the fight, fighting in that weight for the first time.

47:31I think from a physical and psychological point of view, we did a lot right. You know, I'm very happy with all of that. Of course, there's small marginal gains that we can improve on. Technical, tactical, maybe there's some areas to improve there. I think, you know, first round, he was swinging from the fences and I think that's just handling the moment, which he will do better next time. and I think yeah as a team where we have reflected already we're going to continue to reflect again before we go and as of yesterday as we shoot this podcast the fight has been announced November the 15th at Tottenham so Eubank Ben too and we've all got to get better, we don't just dive in like we've spoken about throughout the entirety of this podcast we've all got to reflect, we've all got to get clarity of our roles and again make sure that everyone is set up and synergistically aligned to one goal ask Connor to win, ask to get his arm raised we can be proud of his efforts but we didn't achieve the goal that we all set out to do we all sacrifice no more than connor but we all sacrifice i'd be leaving dubai you know leaving my girlfriend and i'm there to win i'm not there to show up and you know make up the numbers so yeah if there's a margin you've got to find it i think connor is a you know shining example of someone who is resilient single-minded focus relentless and i'm sure all the people that you've trained you know ceo is the football players the boxers but is there anything from and maybe you can maybe name an athlete if you can think of one where there's been bits that have maybe they've doubled down on it or they've got that a bit more and then you've been able to take that from them.

48:52Is there any athletes or examples of how they'll maybe do something or show up that has stuck with you? God, there's so many lessons. Like recently in a training camp, actually, I did a training camp in Portugal. I go over to Quintet Labo every year at the campus and this is just a small one, I'll give more, but we had Ryan Sesson-Jong and Angel Gomez, two great guys, great footballers. and this is again going back to the simplicity of high performance and non-negotiables those guys had probably 14 15 sessions with me throughout the time that we were there maybe a bit more double sessions not once were they late they showed up early every single time these are guys angels you know in England set up Ryan's played Premier League football for however long and for me that stood out because you've then got younger athletes who might be rocking up late or you know just didn't embody those standards.

49:39And it's those simple things you said earlier, control the controllers. These are things that we can control. Showing up on time, that's a non-negotiable. So that was certainly one. I've got loads of lessons. Like John Ryder, we went out to Guadalajara, Mexico, in front of 60 ,000 people at the Chivas Stadium fighting Canelo Alvarez. Massive underdog. No one gave him a hope in hell. And John could have crumbled in the fourth or fifth round. He got put down for the first time in his career. You look around, you're like, oh my God, I'm in the lion's den here quite literally in the heart of Mexico.

50:11And he bit down. He found an inner strength. He drew from that strength all the preparation. And he went 12 rounds with Canelo and gave him a good go in the end. Lost the fight on points, of course. So I draw strength from those moments because my life is easy compared to these guys. These guys are in the trenches. These guys have got another man swinging back at them, you know like trying to quite literally take their head off so I draw strength from that in my day-to-day and that's why I've got to show up to your question earlier why I've got to bring my best self because you know my life's easy compared to them and you know if I show up it enables them to show up and really put themselves through it.

50:49Is there a reason you've applied this passion for performance towards boxing and football in particular? Is there something that those athletes have that maybe other athletes maybe it's a commercial decision which is absolutely fair but is it is there a reason boxing was a passion back in the day a couple of amateur fights and i'm definitely better this side of the ropes now but i realized as well there's a bit of a gap like i knew one boxers are lovely people like they get a bad rap you know you think oh god they're fighting well no if you have a conversation as you have with connor and you say wow actually he's really endearing he's a really lovely guy outside of the bravado they're the nicest people you go into a boxing gym they're the nicest people and i saw a gap there because i knew the training methods at that time was so suboptimal to actually reach peak performance become a better athlete to then transfer to become a better fighter so that was really a passion of mine that i knew that i wasn't that great so i'd then go the other side of how can i be involved in this sport so that was the boxing side of things look football's always been you know always been a passion could have made it if i didn't get but the usual and then football was something that yeah it was passionate about uh kind of got into and it's been a long while they've been the big two i work with a racing car driver as well.

51:56I've worked with a golfer in the past, but they really are the big two sports and the ones that I really do enjoy the most. Let's take, so we spoke about it being a very immersive experience to the people that you work with directly. You're not obviously going to have the opportunity to work with everyone in the world directly, but what are the key principles in terms of, I guess, training? Let's just look at that. The 60 minutes that someone's got three times a week, five times a week, what are the things that you'd be thinking about? We're living in a world where, as we're sitting now, as we both sit up a little bit straighter, where we're hunched over a desk all day everything's in front of us driving phones you know or laptops so i think starting with some form mobility work it's not slick it's not sexy is important whether that's five or six minutes at the start of the day it can compound over a period of time and what that might look like so as i'm sitting here now my hips are in a shortened position my pelvis is out of alignment i had spinal surgery 13 years ago so these are considerations i've got to have the t spine as well is slightly rounded so doing some mobility around the hips around the mid to upper a back area pretty important before you get going so we call it the ramp protocol raise activate mobilize potentiate popularized by Ian Jeffries and just yet raise the heart rate activate muscles mobilize around joints and primal potentiate the neuromuscular system super simple anyone wants it I can share a video after this you can find it on my socials anyway so that's five or six minutes then a little bit of activation work you know for me again sitting down all day glutes are pretty important posterior chain as we've heard it doing some switch-ons there where single leg hip fast cook hip lift um you know glute bridge whatever you like to like to call that or some hamstring work and then going into some posterior shoulder work some banded pull aparts face pulls again just to counteract the postures we find ourselves in on a daily basis you're going to rip up five fives heavy bench then probably want to show some love to the shoulder and add some stability to the shoulder complex before you do so and go into the primal potentiate again let's look at the pattern if you're doing a horizontal press today like a bench press dumbbell dumbbell chest press or other let's prime that pattern let's do some medicine ball drop catches some nice and reactive or some push-up reactive push-ups or something to prime the pattern that you're going to be training for a squat for example let's prime that with a cmj a counter movement jump load explode absorb to prime the neuromuscular system ready for that main key lift and then you go into the key lift obviously with the you know cns we want to go probably more strength dominant work early on in the session whether that's three reps whether that's five reps above 85 percent of you know max load 1RM and you've got to go with big compounds heavy bilateral movements trap bar deadlift again I'm a fan of the trap bar because my back history less loading on the spine a little bit safer there's technical coaching as well for some of my athletes it's a lot easier or a back squat they're your big big compounds work to probably a one or two RIR reps in reserve if you look at Eric Helms his model there of okay I've got one or two reps left in the tank I'm good you know don't go balls to the wall every time like manage your stress look at your data see how you're feeling and then manage your outputs accordingly after doing that we popularize a lot of filler work as well so a lot of people getting into running do they do any robustness work around the lower limbs so we're looking at tibant tibialis anterior gastrocnemius and soleus so maybe doing some work around that in your recovery periods and then going into more kind of auxiliary assistance work where the rep scheme might be a little bit higher so you might now be looking at 8 to 12 12 to 15 inducing more metabolic stress and you might be looking at riff elevated split squats bringing some single leg patterns in i think the world we live in as well everything's so sagittal plane dominant up down forwards and back bicep curls squats deadlifts human movement as we know is 360 degrees so i believe we've got to be training in that it doesn't mean we're on bosu balls and flinging things around but it does mean you know i like some single arm work where we're getting some kind of contralateral reach and opening the t spine bringing a bit of mobility into the routine as well and i've found that you know as my 37 year old self is like I used to be there I still love a bicep curl bench pressing bicep curls but now it's got to be movement orientated so yeah adding a lot of that in bringing some trunk work in I look at a lot of the professor Stuart McGill work trunk bracing as opposed to just a load of endless ab crunches buffering rotational forces lateral flexion forces and extension forces on the spine I think for me the way I present I'm in that kind of Nicki Minaj booty posture of we see girls do on Instagram but joking aside I'm slightly extended so I've got to do a lot more extension or anti-extension work to buffer those forces, certainly as I'm getting into running.

56:12And then we've got to finish with some arms, man. We've got to do the arms. I was waiting for that. That's the main thing. Literally all I put on socials. But yeah, look, we've got to do something that makes us feel good. Walk out the gym feeling good. And outside of all of that, manage your training loads, manage your volumes accordingly. You know, don't try and do a 5-5 protocol if you're new to the gym. If you are new to the gym, follow a GPP protocol, General Physical Preparation or Preparedness, where you might go higher rep schemes, you might go total body but then you know if you are moderate to advanced i'd be looking at more of a split routine um yeah that's really good man absolute gold and again it's it's context dependent right because we're talking about you know a wide range of listeners that come from different backgrounds different training ages different experiences but so take everything we're saying there from a principle standpoint rather than you know this is what i maybe should be doing um i've heard you talk and we've talked about it you know the the increase of hybrid training versus, you know, this is just regular training that we've been doing for years.

57:09If we are looking at someone who's getting into hybrid training, so we're talking about a mixture of sort of strength work and maybe some cardiovascular fitness, what do you think a week should be comprised of, a typical week for someone that maybe is on like a five-day split? Yeah, so I'd be looking at, again, zoom out effect. Let's look at the overall week. I really like hinge and push, knee dominant and pull. And the reason I don't like hinge and pull is if you're doing your deadlifts and pull-ups on the same day, by the time you got to your pull-ups, the limiting factor is always going to be your grip.

57:38And then your pull-ups aren't going to hit those numbers. So that's why I like biasing that, whether that's for context, it's a deadlift variation, RDL, trap bar, and then going into either a vertical or horizontal press, entirely optional. So for me, that would be one day. I'd then be looking at... So you're a fan, I mean, by default there, you're a fan of more of a full body kind of focus. Yeah, so you could say full body, which, you know, in essence, it kind of is, but I still break it down further. I say, well, if we're looking at that, it's more glutes and hammies with a hinge dominant deadlift day and then a push would in essence be a chest chest and triceps right so we're still eliciting a sufficient overload stimulus for that you know for us if we're doing full body three days a week we're not really going to get much overload in terms of hypertrophy i think you know we probably agree so actually i'm still getting enough volume to elicit hypertrophic stimulus but i'm still getting more benefits we know based on brad sconefield's research uh 2017 i think it was hitting a muscle group more frequently throughout the course of a week is optimal comparatively to just doing chest day okay so we know that so going back to your hybrid question this is how i'd you know i think probably unless i'm missing the point of hybrid i'd be doing that i'd be getting some good strength work some good power work still a bit of hypertrophy working box tick there i then it wouldn't be the next day to be clear i'd be doing more knee dominant so whether that's a squat whether that's a split squat variation rear foot split squat or other and then i'd be looking at pull on that day so So it might be a pairing, a simple A1, A2 pairing after all the prep that I've mentioned of back squat followed by a neutral grip pull-up and then maybe a filler exercise.

59:09Three to four sets on that. First work set and then build up to your numbers. Then I'd maybe go into rear fat elevated split squat followed by a single arm row and maybe with like an adductor side plank to get some trunk work in as well. And then go into a bit of an arm farm to finish. It's quite literally that simple when you have that framework. So there's two key sessions. i then you know if you're looking at getting hybrid are we looking at kind of the aerobic system are we looking at probably getting one maybe two aerobic based runs in so engine work um heart race you're looking at joel jameson's cardiac output method between 120 and 150 bpm i'd then part of our program we call it traffic light system not every day is created equal so green would be like your aerobic runs maybe not so much for you because you're smashing out 20 30ks but like a 10k relatively easy for a moderate you know hybrid athlete if you like as long as you're staying within those zones.

59:59Whereas a red day, like that might be a 30K. It might be a really challenging five by five heavy back squats. Again, you can see the demands and stress on the system is very, very different. So that's where you've got to be quite smart and tactile and maybe use the data, both objective and subjective, to see what am I doing on that day. So then I'd add, you know, maybe a little bit more kind of grunt work, if you like, whether that be some, I hate the word, metabolic conditioning, whether that's some kettlebells, you know, building a bit of intensity and working to those higher kind of thresholds and numbers of heart rate, adding in some sprints.

1:00:31That for me would be the optimal week. I know I've really only mentioned four, maybe five sessions there, but you're kind of ticking all boxes. And then I probably would throw an upper body one in as well if that's the exit of your goal, which I think for everyone, myself included, they are. But yeah, that for me would be a pretty solid training week. That's really good principles. I think the kind of take on there is that training like an athlete, training with movement variation in all different planes. We're looking at some more absolute type rep ranges, absolute strength. We're looking at more hypertrophy rep ranges.

1:00:59And we're keeping a very balanced approach to our training program. I think, again, for the everyday person, maybe have some big goals. And there's the level of specificity that's probably required for whatever the goal is or the sport is. But training like an athlete is the best way to sort of keep yourself injury free and feeling good. And understanding what you're trying to achieve without going too deep here in terms of physiology, but understanding what the goal of the session is, right? If you're doing heavy three to five reps above 85 % at one rep max, I'm trying to improve force production.

1:01:27I'm trying to get stronger to build robustness qualities and then become a more powerful athlete, or at least give me the potential to become a more powerful athlete because force times velocity equals power. So you're building the engine. You're building the horsepower in the engine. You've gone from a two-liter to a three-liter engine by simply getting stronger. And we know that you're then, if you're doing it the right way and you're not crumbling under the bar, you're building robustness and tissue tolerance and load tolerance and capacity that will then help you become a runner a better high rocks athlete or whatever else you're doing um and then you know if you're looking at mechanism for hypertrophy maybe some metabolic stress maybe i don't know this so that would be mechanical tension muscle damage there's question marks there as to whether that's that is still whatever but you know i like doing controlled eccentrics you know absolutely providing you're not going to be too fatigued and sore for the next day i think one thing i would say for the listeners is there's a domino's effect you cannot see a session as a singular entity you've got to see how this session feeds into the next feeds into the next because as we know toss and hair it's not about that one epic session that you have it's about the big c word showing up consistency consistently how um you talked about we've talked about sort of training week you've talked about referencing sort of objective subjective data maybe from your whoop or the wearable and then also how are you feeling and really understanding yourself and knowing you know am i motivated to training is this obviously motivation discipline etc some sessions we have to go through where we're not maybe quite there but you still have to get it done others there's maybe an opportunity to pull back take some recovery talk to me about sort of the people's relationship then with with stress and how we manage both physical and psychological stress on the fly in the moment think of stress right it all goes into one cup so there's our stress cup and we spoke prior to this didn't we of like you're doing some pretty savage things at the moment not just in training you're training for the sydney and berlin and you're not just training for it you've got a very clear goal that i know you're holding yourself accountable to and doing everything you can to achieve that what people don't see if you don't mind me saying ollie is you're also a dad you're a beautiful family you're crushing a business with a massive team a global entity and building a brand in doing so these are stressors and they all go into this same cup so with that unfortunately you can't follow the i am a full-time athlete approach of i'm going to eat sleep train repeat it would be lovely to do so but you've got so many other stressors that knowing you and knowing a high performer trait you oh no i'm good i'm good i'm good but sometimes you're not it builds up it accumulates and how that might present itself like a volcano it builds it builds it builds and then it erupts and that's when you get a tissue issue you get oh done my hammy yeah okay done my hammer i've done this you know so um it's uh i think we've just got to be very mindful of the bucket and that only comes with time it only comes with experience we are in a data driven world so we can start looking at data though i'd say don't fall too far down that rabbit hole just use it to maybe start informing decisions but don't you know make it the be all and end all sometimes though i'm not a huge fan we got to go full goggins you know and uh and just suck it up and get on with it but you know if it's that that your data is presenting and the way you feel subjectively and objectively for three four or five days and you're not listening to that that's going to be a problem for you i would absolutely deload.

1:04:37I would absolutely pull back. It's all about the push-pull method in effect, knowing when to pull back. And that's hard. It's hard for you. I know it is. It's hard for me. I don't like rest days. I really don't. Training is not just physical. Training is psychological. It's the glue that holds everything together. So that's why I say even on a non-training day, I will still show up and do some mobility. So I've ticked the box and I've shown up and I can get on with my day. So I think managing workload, managing family, managing stress, and it goes back again to the Tony Robbins, the three pronged approach of what do you place value on?

1:05:07It all starts from there. Because if you've got 10 buckets or you don't really know what your buckets are, you're taking in all this stress, you're getting overwhelmed, you're going around in circles. So take a step back, get clear with your goals, get clear with your buckets, and then you can try and manage stress a little bit better. Because this whole life thing is about stress management. I feel like I'm in counseling. This is so good. I mean, the reason is prudent is because the last couple of days I've literally felt like that. I've had a couple of late nights so obviously I know my sleep routine's out of whack.

1:05:33My Garmin or the ultra human ring that I'm wearing will be telling me, you know, heart rate was elevated during sleep, total sleep times down, breath rates up. So I'm seeing these bits of that. I'm like, I can push through here, push. But when you're on the third day and you see the motivation's dipping even further, you're in the gym, you can tell from like, you know, I grip the bar, I can tell whether my grip's feeling how it should feel or not. And these are just the reminders to go, you know, a sidestep, a couple of steps away from, or a couple of days away from what you would have supposed to be doing and focusing on other areas might be the sauna it might be the mobility it might be the whatever it may be there are things that can still move you forward yeah um and that's so important because i'm guilty of it you're guilty of it some of our clients are guilty of it the whole high rocks like we see it where it's foot on the gas they champion do more work do more work but i promise you that is not optimal to reach peak performance the way you will reach peak performance is knowing when to push knowing when to pull understanding your body and they're the people who will stay on track going back to consistency like you might do a four-week block and then fall off and you're seven to ten days completely out of kilter well what about you did a four-week block you pull back from mini deloads we actually kind of coined the term mini deloads we don't need to do a seven-day deload we go mental three days three and a half days pull back and then get back to it that's all you need and then you can continue to improve really good let's talk about then this the longevity piece the ability to to show up consistently and improve time after time after time and i think that's where you know people like yourself in your career 18 years i can't believe you said george groves earlier 2012 or 2013 i must have been following him for more than 10 years so i remember it vividly um to keep being at that level for so long the athletes the ryan session you're on whoever it may be and yourself as a practitioner there's a longevity piece here and it's it's it's it's you know trial and error over time it's learning and it's being able to to course correct when things go wrong as you've evolved how is your definition of high performance for yourself changed you referenced you know this new i guess new experience now of having a girlfriend um you know and things need to change so how do you evolve your high performance as things change is it you referenced tony robbins um you know is it just re-evaluating the buckets and going okay what's important for me for me in this phase of life yeah kaizen continuous improvement i know that's how we live our life we're going down japanese philosophical routes i want continuous improvement every day across the board and the buckets as i say they have changed slightly i'm putting energy into relationships now which is which is great you know she makes me a better person she slows me down a little bit um i think it's just identifying what's important to you and just trying to get better in any way shape or form the high performance traits you know I'm 37 now I've had to you know what I'm saying is what I've learnt it's what I've seen, what I've done at the highest level it's what I've learnt on myself as well I can't be blasé and blinkered to managing my training loads you know I had spinal surgery 13 years ago in Harley Street and I've had to manage my loads since you know I've been envious of the way you get under that bar and rip it up but even you will probably say no I've changed completely the last couple of years I was saying the other day again referencing this lad that's came over today I don't remember the last time I did a bilateral hinge from the floor.

1:08:42I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't do it and run four times a week. Because the juice isn't worth the squeeze. It goes back to what are your goals? Clear with it. Is that aligned or misaligned? And then we look at the risk versus reward continuum. Is the risk of the exercise, do an ego lift with the boys to put it on the gram. Does that outweigh the rewards? And I think for now our older selves would say, yeah, it absolutely does. So I think going back to your question is like, I've had to adapt. I've had to evolve. I have to manage my training loads. I really do believe in our four pillars, training, nutrition, recovery and mindset.

1:09:11If I don't sleep well, I'm not good to be around and I have to then prioritize that. And, you know, I create the optimal sleep environment to do that. It's not just saying, oh, go and sleep more. And someone's listening to this, they've got three kids at home. Like that's not great advice. But there are ways that you can optimize your sleep environment. If sleep is something you cannot improve because of other things that you've got going on contextual to you, what can you improve with the other three pillars? You can eat better. You can still get, you know, two grams per kilo of body weight of protein per day.

1:09:38There's certain things you can do. Three liters of water. These little things will add up. And please don't get overwhelmed by certain things you can't do. Focus on what you can do. As you said, control the controllables. What's one area of your life that you're actively trying to improve? Have you got it all nailed? No, I haven't got it nailed. God, no chance. Relationships. I'm learning on the job big time. Like, I've been blinkered. I've been single-minded. You know, I haven't had to think about other people. I'm really trying in that regard being a leader of my team I'm learning on that job as well and realising that I've got to articulate in different ways like I am high performance my standards are so high if you've got five of your team in the Philippines maybe there's a bit of a misalignment there so thankfully now I've got Jamie shout out Jamie he's my head of operations he's been absolutely brilliant so everything feeds into him and then little bits make its way through to me so I can then focus on the big stuff you know podcasts great meetings with great people and do the stuff that i enjoy but i'm trying to become a better leader i'm trying to become a better communicator it's continuous i don't feel like i've cracked it by any stretch and i hope that does not come across in this podcast i'm trying to be a better a better son to my mum you know so i actually think it's quite endearing the the bits of content you you share with your mum when you're whether you're flying out to dubai or you've gone for a trip in europe she's been you've been with her in london i really i really like that do you know what everyone's been saying that i know i honestly you think I need to cancel my Instagram page and just make her one.

1:11:04No, she's unbelievable to be fair. I think, like I said, I think, like I said at the top, I think it's that ability to humanise high performance or people that we put on a pedestal because of the way in which they act but then realise there are softer sides to it. What habits are you doubling down on that you see your sort of future self, 37 years old, maybe coming towards 40, things are changing, the way you train. Mention that. What things are you, well, I'm saying because I'm in the same boat so I want to sort of learn um is there anything you're sort of doubling down on for you know for this sort of next phase of life I mean you reference the relationships and stuff but yeah relationship being a big one and just trying to curate the life that I've always wanted that's why I moved to Dubai and people see Dubai as this kind of lavish like showing off that we all know what they see right it's not that if you don't want it to be that I live a very uh kind of minimalistic life out there i rarely go out me and my girlfriend go and play paddle a couple of times a week and it's a place for me to grow it's a place for me to dive in and have good conversations with like-minded people who have that growth mindset that i mentioned environment dictates outcomes i'm not just saying this stuff i've been very constantly aware of my environment in the uk and i thought you know i've reached the summit of the mountain in terms of physical preparation and working in sport you know i've achieved a lot and i'm blessed for that but i then also believe that when i reach the summit of that mountain i'm very self-aware as being a growth-minded individual I've got to go straight back down the other side now I'm looking at the next mountain and that's you know the summit is way up there and I've got to keep working so I put myself in an environment to do that yeah it's a great answer Dubai is something I've talked of fondly because of that right you've been everything that people would have listened to over this last hour and half almost there's so much intentional action that's going on every environment every opportunity every decision it's made through clear a clear thing you put it through this filter So you're like, okay, this is the better option for me.

1:12:57You're constantly A and B testing, you know, a food versus another food, a training day versus, a movement versus another movement. You're seeing it on athletes and CEOs, you're seeing it on yourself. And taking yourself to Dubai, which is actually a part of what I wanted to discuss, is like a real intentional action to immerse yourself in an environment where you're going to learn more about business. There's more career opportunities, commercial opportunities. And it's the same for me. I want to be around people that are thinking how I want to try and think. I love optimism. not toxic like you know people thinking there's something they're not but i love glasses half full i'm going to attack it we can win this we'll find a way not second questioning pessimistic i don't know i'm unsure um i'm gonna you know retract and retreat but in the uk you find many people like that you're being bombarded by the media you're bombarded by people and people just want to you know sit in a box be in a box accept this don't do that go on one holiday have fun but not too much have a nice car but don't make it better than mine all this kind of bullshit I like when people are succeeding in whatever area of their life whether it's financially in relationships whatever that's like I warm to that I sort of move towards I'm like what can I learn from this individual I want them to go further I never look at it as going I'm comparing myself and I now feel take a negative approach to it Dubai is that melting pot of talent you know you see it in parts of the US as well there's just a level of optimism and a way of thinking you're one conversation away from your life trajectory completely changing you're one introduction or network session away from these sorts of things so i can see why you've moved there a hundred percent um what does high performance look like for someone in their 40s 50s or 60s who maybe aren't as physically capable as us in our 30s or 20s should it be attached to i think i know the answer because because I think we've touched on everything high performance is, but should it be attached to the metrics, the 5K time, the marathon, this on my deadlift, this on my bench press?

1:14:58It can be, if that's their goal. It goes back to what do they want to achieve. It's got to be contextual to them. So we'll do an unpacking deep dive session of what does high performance mean to you? What does success look like? Not just over the next six months, over the next six years for that individual. Because if they are making a shift at 40, 45, and as you said, 50, that's the rest of their life so it quite literally is that important so we've got to get crystal clear with okay who do you want to be what traits do they embody uh do you want to be a father do you want to be a grandfather do you want to be around to see your grandchildren like that's how important it is and we have a slogan on our website like we will help you live for longer which i think is quite brash and straight up but we've got the data to prove it we know based on dr peter atia's work his book outlive well like highly recommended read you know there's direct correlation between VO2 max and longevity which is why that's one of our testing batteries with our business so we can say if we get you from the lowest percentile to kind of middle range we will improve the quality and duration of your life so we use a lot of data I think it's important with those guys certainly with the executives is we say like in business what gets measured gets managed you know you can't just be like randomly doing things at that point like these guys and girls have worked so hard for their life they deserve to be optimized and that's really the word and certainly in Dubai longevity you know reduced mortality rates optimization wellness I hate the words biohacking but you know if you want to throw that in the mix I don't believe in biohacking I believe in optimization and of course there's certain traits that fall under the biohacking umbrella like ice bars infrared saunas NAD plus that you know we will bring into our program we believe in a lot deeper approach around behavioral change around environments and hopefully that's come across today that we can quite literally change someone's life it doesn't matter if you're 40 45 50 you've still got a long way to go and it's not just about it's about having life in your years as well not just you adding years to your life it's how you live those uh so yeah look if you want if your bench wants to go up that's probably not the metric we'd be looking at if i'm honest like just because of those dudes like shoulder impingement issues are a real thing so we probably wouldn't look at bench but we would look at 5k 10k uh you know whether they eventually want to run a half marathon a 70.3 probably for the younger age group that you stated them but even some of the older guys, we've got people join our program who are late 40s and they want to do a 70.3.

1:17:15We're obviously realistic with what that looks like and the duration it takes to get there. But it'd be led by DEXA scans, VO2 max, comprehensive blood work, strength diagnostics, so we can build a plan to say, this is your starting point. This is your baseline. This is where we need to get to, to achieve that goal. So it really depends on the individual who presents to us. It's not a cookie cutter. It's okay, let's get really clear here with not just what you want what does this mean to you intrinsically? Why do you want to link your goal to your life and how you want to be perceived, how you want your kids to see their father?

1:17:48Like that's how powerful it is. Yeah, I think without attaching that meaning to it first, people then lose their motivation. Yeah, when they hit the hump in the road, right? No, I mean, that covers that perfectly. I think the idea is for listeners is to appreciate that high performance doesn't necessarily have to have a shelf life. Just because you're not there now doesn't mean you can't look for it. And I think that ties back to the, I suppose, the goal of the podcast of this without limits. Like for me, I want to know what can I achieve and what can I do to be growth-minded and continue my 40s and my 50s and my 60s.

1:18:21And I hope listeners, like I say, maybe they look at this, whether it's a career change, whether it's a physical change, whether it's just a mindset shift. It's appreciating the way you are now doesn't necessarily have to mean that the goals ahead of you can't be achieved. and you can change at any time we've got a dude in our program exit his business for 155 million i won't mention him but i'm so proud he's a tech guy that's what his business was he's now built a gym in his house he signed up to his first half marathon he's been on our program a while um he's in orlando now he just did a run in central park new york he's just gone to orlando he messaged me i said dan i've just completed 10 to 12k without any knee pain i feel amazing like that might not sound like a lot to people that is huge from when he joined our program because he was not that gym guy.

1:19:06And it's like, again, it's got to be contextual to you. So anyone can achieve what they want to achieve. Just chip away each day. We're very biased, right? Let's sort of wrap this up. We're very biased because we work in the fitness space. It's very obvious there's a lot of CEOs now that are unlocking new levels themselves through the medium of fitness being the thing. Why do you think, do you think people should start with that? You mentioned those kind of four pillars of training, nutrition, sleep, and was it recovery mindset? you know the very fundamentals kind of health and well-being do you think that's just where people should start just audit where you currently are in terms of daily movement where am i at nutrition what am i doing and just like make those slight changes start where you stand identify where your feet are now not where i was four or five years ago and i'm trying to get the wheels going again just start where you stand and do a bit of a 360 a bit of a review okay how many steps do i do what are my non-negotiables but it all starts with what do I place value on, what is my goal and you don't have to get super clear and that might contradict what I said earlier, you haven't got to say right I'm starting this journey, I'm going to be running a half marathon right away, no, just start small, set some daily non-negotiables focus on those four pillars am I training three times a week, am I sleeping adequately you know obviously the number one recovery tool is sleep it costs absolutely nothing, whether you want to use data and stuff, then it does cost something nutrition, am I getting two grams per kilo body weight of protein per day completely going against the World Health Organization of 0.8 grams per kilo of body weight which we know is ludicrously low understanding macronutrients understanding carbohydrates, understanding energy balance simple things that can be done with a basic app like MyFitnessPal if you want to track for a week which I recommend and then mindset, am I listening to podcasts am I reading books, am I assessing my environment that's where you start and then you break inertia and then you can, six months down the line you know what, I'm going to do this half marathon I feel great so I think it's got to be realistic I'm all for setting lofty goals start where you stand identify where your feet are and just break inertia initially and then you can go big with the goals later down the line.

1:21:09I said at the top this was going to be a complete download and high performance and there was no one more qualified to talk about it I think over the last 90 minutes whether it's been like the book references you know the research paper references like you are so ingrained in this life. And it's been an absolute pleasure to become your friend over the years, to follow your journey and to take inspiration from it. That was powerful, mate. That's been one of my favourite conversations. So thank you so much for joining me today. Thanks, Ollie. And I've got to say thank you. Thank you for what you've done to the fitness and wellness space.

1:21:42I don't know if anyone's actually said that. You lead from the front. You showcase not just training, how to run a business, how to be a great dad. So honestly, I'll say this from fitness. Thank you, bud. Thank you, mate. I mean that. Thank you, mate.