Community And Connection With The Founder Of Puresport | Grayson Hart | EP.10

24:04Grayson Hart:Or did you feel the expectation changes? Initially, I was just, for the majority of that season, and I was just doing the same thing, man. I was just buzzing to be there, and I would get out there, and I would just do 1 ,000 miles an hour. They used to put clips up on the Monday and be like, Grayson played 12 minutes, and he made 12 tackles, and they'd show me just sprinting around. They're like, this is the work, man. I'm like, I don't even remember, man. I had 12 minutes, but I was just going for it. So I think I was just raw and like, you know, and I was in an amazing team where they were all like encouraging and supporting.

24:46It was probably the next season that then I had expectation, you know, because then I made into the New Zealand under-20s. We won the World Cup. I got picked for the Blues off the back of that one season at Auckland. So then it was like, oh, like people started to be like, okay, like this guy's legit, you know. And then I started to be like, okay, now I've done that, I've got to make sure that I progress. And then a lot of the old players left, so it was like a whole new squad. That is when I started to get in my head about the concept of not messing up, making sure that I understood all the elements of the game plan and everything like that.

25:33and I'd done all my homework and all these things, whereas before I was just getting out there and ripping in. So definitely that feeling of that imposter syndrome, that double-guessing yourself, that losing that feel of that freedom and intuition that was just so natural before, that was a tough time, man, because I was like, all my dreams were coming true, but mentally I felt I didn't feel good.

26:03Grayson Hart:It's funny how all the things that get you there, all the sets and reps, all the two-hour passing before the trial, but when you actually do make it and then your identity shifts a little bit to being a freshman rugby player, you start second-guessing yourself. Yeah, and I think there's a lot of analogies in sport for life, as you know so well. I think sport is like a magnified version of the rollercoaster of life, you know because things will be going so well to plan one day and then you get injured or the result doesn't go away or a new player comes in and takes your spot life's going to throw like curveballs at you and things are not going to go to plan and it's an opportunity to go within and see who you are and how you you're going to navigate that um and I I think some of the roller coasters that my rugby career threw my way and what that made me have to learn about myself in life um definitely helped mold like my perspective on life and how I wanted to go like about business and life and so yeah man there were some tough times like being a 20 year old kid and people thinking oh the world's at your feet and and all that and you're doing so well but then feeling internally like you don't belong and you're not good enough and you're in your head and you're feeling limited and it's a tough one man because people are looking at you like oh like you live in the dream and then you're like I rock up there and I'm doubting myself and I feel like I don't belong you know it's a tough dynamic but it's an opportunity yeah I mean everyone that anyone that understands a professional game or elite sport in general will understand how highly competitive is let alone in New Zealand where every boyhood's dream is is to play for the all blacks or to get a contract with one of the you know super 15 teams at the time so you're 20 years old how much longer did you did you stick out in New Zealand and why why did you leave yeah so the following year my dad passed away and he got cancer so that was when he passed away that was like a massive piece of the puzzle of my life was gone you know and also like he was someone that because I'd seen how much love and how much effort he had made for us kids and that and especially like that on him and I shared with rugby I didn't even know it like it was like subconscious like that was a huge part of the meaning of my like passion and drive because like he didn't have much to like you know um sort of make him that he was proud of himself but but when he saw his son or his kids doing well whether it was like you know my little sister at school or my brother at university or me with rugby like he loved it you know and like so that was something that I think really drove me as well to make it through those times I was like questioning myself and doubting myself like yeah but like you make dad proud so keep going you know and so like when I but also like up in the point before he passed away um my brother and I were caring for him at home um and that was like a a hugely challenging experience to go through like your dad dying from cancer and like we were caring for him but that was something that we chose that we wanted to do for our dad because he had done so much for us and he like hated the hospital and like he had his dog that he loved that he wanted to be with so I was trying to be a full-time rugby player in my second year where I was really like it was a challenging second year already and then I was taking care of my dad at home then when he passed away like I just was exhausted man like I literally I don't know I just felt depleted and I felt I'd lost so much of that like meaning behind what drove me through the hard times with my rugby and yeah man I don't know like I always loved rugby I was always so easily driven and passionate with it like I used to train the house down and it was just felt like fun you know and um yeah it just felt like I was missing that and I then went out without realising why or what I was doing I was trying to fill that void you know and in New Zealand and in rugby court like drinking and other activities around that like they're already there they're things that you need to try your best to navigate regardless but then in that time when I was feeling so down and alone and lost and unmotivated I was trying to fill a void because you don't know any other better way when you're that young and you don't have that guidance so I started drinking a lot like discarred gambling because we used to stay in the Sky City hotel before games also growing up in New Zealand like especially back in those days like in the neighborhood I grew up in like fighting wasn't really uncommon like it's pretty it was pretty normal to not a week would go by you wouldn't have some type of like scuffle or fight so you kind of have that in you and then I had that kind kind of like sadness that I was trying to escape and distract through the alcohol.

31:03So yeah, I'd be getting into some fights and drinking and gambling. None of those things serve you, you know, when you're doing them to escape your feelings. So yeah, man, like I, but the tough bit was I wasn't able to be open and talk about my problems or how I was feeling and what I was going through. And I was also trying to portray to the club and people around me that I was this guy that they thought I was, like this guy who'd done so well to get to this level and had this big future ahead. But really in my mind I felt the guilt to myself and to like letting myself and the others down that I wasn't living up to that and I was drinking and getting in trouble and all that.

31:45And yeah, my performance just went down, man, like my training motivation, all of it just dropped and wasn't playing well, was just so unconfident because of all the noise going on. And eventually I got into trouble because word got back that I'd had a couple of fights. And then, yeah, they were just like, yeah, we're going to release you from the next year of your contract. And I was like, fuck. That was like, yeah, that was like rock bottom for me, man.

32:15Grayson Hart:Have any of the senior boys at the time known anything about this or anyone that can put their arm around you? It was, that was probably the bit I look back on that I regret because I think there were a couple people that, because there were people that knew me, that where I'd come from, like my upbringing, and they got an insight into that. But then there were other people that just assumed, because, oh, my uncle was the all-black coach, that I've had this fucking great, easy life, you know, because he's a successful guy, so it must be the whole family. So there was only a few people that really knew how I'd grown up with my dad with addiction and single parent and like challenging environment.

32:57And it was also something that I didn't want to like go around and make a storyline about, you know. So I think not many people knew how alone that I was. And yeah, there was definitely a couple of people that kind of saw signs but I was always like, no, I'm good. I'm good because I was lying to myself. It's the classic fucking young male rugby player response. I'm sweet. And like you want to be sweet. Like I wasn't going about trying to stuff my life up You know so I was like no I'm good Like even like when I drink too much Or fight and my brother would find out Come on bro you can't get back on track

33:32Grayson Hart:And I'd be like no I'm good But I wasn't good you know But yeah so I don't know man I do think The clubs could I don't know what they're up to Nowadays but I do think they need to do better To understand the individuals Like You know and even like when I was taking care of my dad maybe it was my responsibility to let them know that that's what was going on but they didn't know you know I was going home after training every day and like literally being a carer for my dad so yeah just probably front footing it yourself man and being open but I do think the professional environments they could do more to understand the circumstances of the players 100 % I mean I think it is a lot different now from what I see and hear from friends of mine That's still in the professional game But certainly What 15 years ago Yeah It wasn't like that Yeah You know There's still a lot of maturing That 20 year old boys have to do Yeah man You're still just a kid man And especially in that Sport environment Like It's so single Focused You know You're like big kids Like the whole squad It's like Being in the first 15 All day every day You know So There's also things They can do To understand The vulnerabilities of kids that don't have the guidance at home, you know?

34:50Because, yeah, man, like, I was looking back. I hate to use the phrase vulnerable. Maybe vulnerable is the wrong word, but, like, it was easy for me to get off track, you know? Like, in New Zealand, we love rugby. I was this young guy from the city that I'd grown up in, playing for my team, earning some money, being on TV. Like, you know, people start coming around you, like, treating you different, and it's not true. But, like, if you don't have that guideline, that foundation, that home, and that understand, that discipline, you can get, again, carried away with that sort of perspective, you know.

35:27But, again, I see it all as it's all unfolded perfectly because it made me have to come to a point in my life where I questioned, like, who I was, how I was living, and what was my next step, you know.

35:43Grayson Hart:I mean the emotion From The excitement on you In your voice Talking about boyhood rugby And then the emotion That last five minutes Fucking touched me bro You know what man You shared that journey too Yeah bro So Okay The club released you Then what You're questioning life choices How did you end up on our shores I'm grateful that you did Because it's been a fucking Great friendship for the last Three four years Me too bro Yeah That was a bad time in my life I was like I was just like Okay I had this Tough upbringing I saw how much My dad struggled I started to Make something good Of my life And now I've fucked it up I was like Damn And then And then I was like I really want to learn From this I really want Another opportunity And I ended up But I was like I need to get away I don't want to be here In Auckland I kind of want to get away From all this Kind of What's going on And this trouble And how It's a blessing It's not going to curse New Zealand, right?

36:42Grayson Hart:Because it's like, it's so much opportunity, but also there's like, when rugby, maybe the door's closed, then it's almost like, now what is there here? Yeah, man. And it's a very, like, everything's connected there. So once I got into trouble and I had a fight and I got back to the club and then I wasn't playing well and I was drinking and it's like, your reputation. You see it even now, like, the tall poppy syndrome thing, right? As soon as one of the ex, like, when the All Blacks comes to the end of the All Black career, they go to Japan or France, bar a few players the Kiwi public just turn against them yeah man, yeah it's crazy but that's the thing, New Zealand I'm so obsessed with their rugby that you're always going to get those armchair critics you know and like that was it, like man yeah I used to get slated like as a 20 year old playing for Auckland or the Blues if I didn't get to the ruck in time or I threw a bad pass or whatever like you man, even the commentators would absolutely rip you on like live TV and you're just you're just this little kid who is trying to do his best out there man you're like damn you know and um so it's definitely like a tough environment and like criticism was just a real normal part of it in our culture with rugby we're very like you know tough on it but I think that people forget like shit that's just a human being out there man and he's probably as sensitive and uh anxious about life as I am and he's out there doing his best and we're already slating him on talkback radio and saying he's shit and this other guy should play and all that but but also then it makes you realize okay like people are going to have their opinions about you in life and what are you going to do about it you got to focus on what you can do so you learn you got to learn that quickly man like and that was also another blessing because you know I'm sure you when you're a founder and a CEO of a business people that aren't in those shoes will never understand the thousand things on your mind that when you wake up before you even get out of bed that's on your mind before you go to bed the amount of people that you're dealing with the amount of different things you've got to understand and it will be easy for them to have a perspective of you from one interaction or something to be like oh this guy or that guy this is how he is and that's how I experience things in business but then it makes you realise actually I know who I am and I know that I'm committed, that I work hard, that this means something to me, and that's what I'm going to focus on.

39:06So, yeah, it's like I said, sport, pro sport, man, it's a powerful, magnified rollercoaster of life in a short period, but there's a lot of opportunities to see life more clearly through it.

39:18Grayson Hart:That period of your life, did you want to stay in the professional game because that's all you knew and you thought it was the only opportunity, or was there still passion to put down the drink and give another shot? Yeah, so what happened was I had no idea what I was going to do. Like I was pretty stuffed, man, and I went through a period of still like trying to escape that reality of feeling failure and all that pain and sadness that I was in by drinking and still getting into trouble. And that probably went on for like three months. and then one day I just woke up and I was like I was hung over, I think I'd had a fight the night before and I was like I cannot live this way anymore like I'm done with it, I'm exhausted now and before that I just kept denying denying denying and then it was literally I'm done now something's got to change and yeah I ended up I asked my brother if he could help me and he ended up finding a guy that I could talk to and this guy was well known because he used to work with a lot of rugby league players and rugby league are famous for like getting in trouble off the field and doing stuff so he was known for working with a lot of these players and I went and worked with him and pretty much he just taught me about like the fact that we try to escape our feelings and try to fill voids by instant gratification you know whether it's the gambling girls drinking and it's actually just creates a cycle because then you feel more down so there's more down feelings to escape there's guilt for upsetting people fighting already what you're doing to harm your own body by drinking and all that and you feel more down so then you need to escape that more and you just create a cycle and and it's also he explains to me it's also wrapped up in the fact that in our society we are taught that we are our identity like our value and happiness and inner peace is attached directly to what we do and our identity and the perception people have of us and he started to just unravel it all and like he actually said this thing that like it still sticks to me to this very day he goes because a big part of the pain was like I felt that I'd lost love and security when my dad died I was like I'm on my own now and he said to me he goes like you know you know the love and the security that you felt from your dad that was inside of you and it was the same it was shared with him and even though he's not here it's still inside of you and he said that's the only place to find it but because you've thought it's gone you've been trying to seek it out in the world and escape those feelings of not having that love and security, and you've tried to seek it in instant gratification to distract and avoid and fill that void.

42:20And he said, but you'll never find it.

42:22Grayson Hart:And the more you chase it, the less complete you're going to feel. He said, the only way you can understand that you're okay and that you never lost that love and security when your dad died is that you've got to see it within yourself. And I don't know. they say like when the student's ready the teacher will appear because if someone had if he had said that to me six months before I was being like oh yeah sounds philosophical but yeah but it just really rung true to me so I think all the shit that I've gone through was life giving me an opportunity to see life truly and um I honestly can't explain it but it was like something switched in me from that moment and it's been the foundation of like my life since like I just started to realize in any moment that I am all good I'm okay like I am the love that we're taught to seek out in the world and rather than seek it I want to see in any given moment that that's who I am and go about my life expressing that rather than trying to find it and it changed my life man and then I became energized I was like I fucking love rugby I don't care how much I get paid or what team I play for I actually really love doing that and I'm gonna find a way to do it again and then opportunity to go play at like a semi-pro club in Australia came up and they all sort of like had good links to the waratahs and super rugby and so the waratahs were like okay come and play for this club and we'll see how you go and man like I just I just loved it man and being in that semi-pro team where there was guys who were ambitious and young trying to make it and then some guys who were in the big leagues that were coming down it was just the perfect environment for me to like find my passion and love for the game and I just remember like because growing up I used to lead the teams that I played in you know I wasn't just a part I would lead the team and I found that again at this club because I kind of lost that when I got into the all-in teams I was like okay I'm just lucky to be here whereas in this club I was like I'm just gonna to do my thing and I want to try to bring these guys up with me and like lead and we had such an amazing year and I got a contract with the Waratahs and I mean when I got that contract they train in a six stadium in Bondi and like unbelievable facilities and you're in Bondi sunshine and like you know it was a great club to be at and I just said to myself I'm not want to take a single part of this for granted because after that first year in the pro leagues you especially when you're young and you get caught up on it you overlook the shit that meant the most to you like and so that just the ability to train in a sick gym with my teammates with the facilities with unbelievable trainers with a program with the supplements like with the coaching to go out there and learn and grow and just to do that shit every day I was like Like, fuck, this is what it's about for me, you know?

45:19And it changed, man. Like, it just changed. I no longer was attached to just the outcome. I really was, like, grateful and immersed in the process. And that was really how my life changed. Because, yeah, I love rugby. I got my opportunity. And then I, through different circumstances and misunderstandings, I lost that connection and buying and that passion and took it for granted probably in some way. so then when I got it another time I'm never going to take it for granted again and yeah that was kind of the foundation of how I went about my rugby for the rest and it took the pressure off because I used to put pressure on myself to be like you must play this many games, you must earn this much money, you must be on this trajectory and it's good to have the ambition and the goals but when it becomes like a prison that stifles you that's not what the goals and ambition is for you know, they should be an expression and see how you go

46:14Grayson Hart:I'm smiling because it's so relatable But I hope there's young Aspiring athletes that listen to that piece It's fucking power Yeah man, that would be the biggest thing Have your goals and ambitions But don't become a prisoner to them Because life's going to throw kerbals and changes Enjoy Every moment Even the times where you're training And it's fucking hard Remember I chose to do this This is sick You know Yeah That's something that Changed my life Really Seeing it that way I could sit and Yarn about rugby The rest of the episode But How did you get from Australia then to the UK Yeah How long were you With the Warriors For I was there for Two seasons I didn't end up Getting a huge amount Of game time And I think where I went Wrong was Michael Chekhov He came in as a coach And His fingers Like Is this on camera his hands like this and he's this real old school like quite angry like guy and when you shake his hand like his little fingers snap so it goes like that and then one day I went and I was like what's up and I shook his hand like that and he was like nah I don't like this guy so I don't know who got that one wrong but yeah so I didn't end up getting too much game time but I loved my time at the club some great teammates got my life back on track and then Scotland Rugby because my grandma's Scottish they had heard that from when I played in the Under-20 World Cup and they'd sort of been talking to my agent for a while seeing if I wanted to go because that's what the UK teams do they find out which young pros in the southern hemisphere are qualified to play and they start chaining to their agents and yeah man and they offered me a contract and it was like pretty good money because they pay better money in the UK than in New Zealand and Australia for rugby um I wasn't getting much game time wanted to progress my career and then I remember I like googled um it was Glasgow Warriors who offered me and I googled on Google Earth Glasgow city center and I like was living in Bondi Beach and I looked and I was like oh shit I don't know if I want to move to this place man I keep asking me what's Glasgow like they're like that's the ass end of the world man yeah um so I ended up turning them down Glasgow and because the Waratahs came to table and offered me another contract so I stayed for one more year and I was like it's going to be my year and I still didn't end up getting much game time so then Scottish rugby came back around again and it was Edinburgh this time they offered me and I was like I'm there but I signed it got on my way and it was amazing because I was a dude on my own on the other side of the world new style of rugby, new club new opportunity and it was a fresh start and I loved it and I looked at it I was like this is an adventure like give your rugby your all but don't forget you're like a Kiwi kid on the other side of the world like enjoy the experience you know like see the world take the opportunity when you got time off to go visit places learn about the culture where your you know family's heritage is from so I just saw it as a bigger picture opportunity and actually that year was my probably my best season I ever had as well because I think I was just looking at it from that bigger picture.

49:40But also it was the first season where I'd had this fresh outlook on being grateful to be there and give my all and be part of the process rather than the outcome. And I actually got a lot of game time and played well. And yeah, did really well. Got picked for Scotland at the end of the year. And so that was a good start to the career in the UK.

50:01Grayson Hart:When did rugby start to... Was it injuries or was it lack of love for the game that took you out with them? Because you had a good career over here, right? Yeah Edinburgh, Scotland, Sevens Yeah I know towards the end, to the tail end, it was probably winding down with some more semi-pro type clubs Yeah, there was two things So, coming to the UK, well, pro rugby, regardless, it brought a rigidity to the game especially as a scrum half that you know I in New Zealand like we have maybe one or two phases that you um are scripted off a set piece um and then you open the game up and you play whereas when I came to the UK they'd have like five phases scripted off the first um uh set piece so as a scrum half you had to get every one of those phases right so and it was just like you're literally running around trying to get through the phases correct and then from there every part of the field is mapped out anyway so off the sideline you're playing off the 10 and he's hitting the forwards up and you go back down blind or you play it back around the corner and every part of the game scripted and there's all this box kicking so like I was like it was kind of like trying to play a new sport it was different man so I found that rigidity challenging because I also was like why are they limiting their players?

51:24Because in the UK I found that they kept saying, oh our forwards can't do that. They don't have the vision or they don't have the understanding to look at the space and see your tip on and da da da. And I was like, nah, they do. Your viewpoint that they don't is what's creating it to not be the case. And I think Pat Lambs a great example when he went to Connacht, he had a vision for where he was going to get them to and I know the way he trains. He would have just been getting to do the skills and conditioning games and in more structured organizational to the point where it took three years but Connacht was playing like a super rugby team man and they won the comp and they were nothing before they were like last place so the limitation that the concept and the rigidity of rugby in the UK that they put onto the players being quite a creative player and like a free-flowing player I really really struggled with that and my tendencies that I have is my whole life to question these authorities when I don't think what they're saying is true or right or if I feel it just fairly should be questioned.

52:29As you know, it doesn't go down that well in rugby. They don't like that. But that's also something about me that's got me into trouble in my life but it also makes me who I am is that I can't help it. I can't help question something that I know is not the way that it's said to be as black and white. you know um so so that was always a point that I struggle with in the UK with rugby and then um from the age of like 22 when I was playing in Sydney um I'd had a knee injury when I was about 20 and it was just a torn meniscus and MCL which was not that big and bad of an injury in rugby it's like usually like three months recovery and that after I had that injury the next year season And my knee just kept gradually getting more painful to the point where like, but you know what it's like when you have something that's not stopping you doing something.

53:20It's just a bit of pain. You just push through it in rugby. That's what it's like. And I didn't know that it was like gradually making my knee worse. It was just like my knee was just getting a bit more painful. And I didn't want to like think about being limited or not playing and missing training and stuff. So, but it got to the point where like in warmups and stuff, like my knee would be like giving way. and I was like 23 years old and like my knee would be in like pain and like giving way and like swelling up. And pretty much when I went to Edinburgh, I forgot that part of the story, they said that you have to do a medical test to pass your contract, get your contract.

53:57And they sent me for a scan because I had fluid in my knee and pretty much they were like, fuck, your knee is fucked. Like you might need to retire because there's no cartilage in there and there's bone spurs and it's unstable and da-da-da. thankfully like uh there was a second opinion and then it came back to the fact that I'd never missed games and I was still functional so they couldn't tear up my contract so I got the contract but from then on like my knees got worse and worse and I was on a lot of painkillers and yeah like looking back I never wanted to think of it as a bad thing or a limitation because I was just wanting to play the game and do do what I could and that's part of the mindset of being you don't in a such a physical tough game your body's always sore but that really limited me because I would start to protect it and I I wasn't the athlete that I was you know because I used to be explosive and fast and good at changing angles and when you're trying to protect something throughout training for it to be okay on the weekend you're losing your your power your skill your speed because it's got to be done frequently right and then it's not second nature anymore when You're not doing it all day, every day throughout the week.

55:09So I started to see that I wasn't the player that I was. I wasn't able to hit gaps. Or if I'd see space, I didn't have the acceleration. Or, you know, I'd be able to break tackles in the past or step late. And because I was protecting that knee and I was in so much pain, yeah, it became frustrating, man. But you never want to accept it because you want to be like, no, I can do that. Because that's part of the belief you've got in order to be doing that game, right? But now that I look back and I've truly been able to have perspective and accept it, I was like, yeah, man, like you really weren't the player that you set out to be.

55:44And that knee, like it did limit you. But I'm kind of proud that I didn't have the mindset that I was limited at the time, you know.

55:56Grayson Hart:That level of self-awareness began to manifest into something that meant you had to walk away from the game. How did the decision get made that you were leaving the game? The pain Or an understanding That you weren't the player That you once were Or that you wanted to be Yeah So I kind of strategically Navigated my way out of the game Because By chance Like Pure sport began Because of I got so sick of the painkillers That I was taking every day I was taking like Opioid based painkillers Every day for my knee pain I started researching Like alternatives To painkillers Because it was becoming So unhealthy like I felt sick like um and also the opioids were becoming like addictive um and so I started researching natural alternatives I found um CBD and I also found at that point through that like research I stumbled into the world of like mushrooms and eutropos I was like damn this shit's fascinating like they never tell us about this in rugby like this is a whole nother world out there of like how you can optimize the body and how it works with nature and you know there where it was just some protein powder and some painkillers, you know.

57:04So I became really fascinated. It got to the point where I was saying them secretly because we weren't really meant to take CBD because there was none that was certified for sport. And then my team doctor found out he was unhappy with me, said I wasn't allowed to take it. So being that kind of dude that I've explained at school and stuff like that, I didn't like being told to do something just because that's what they said. I started researching, okay, I'm going to find a way to take it. and the way to do it is create the world's first fully certified for drug tested athletes range of CBD products.

57:36And again, like ignorance was bliss because like I just found a way to do it. I called people up, manufacturers, the batch testing. And then, yeah, I brought PureSport to life. And then as it started to grow and we're just lucky, like the timing because no brand had ever done certified CBD and CBD was new in the UK at the time and athletes were interested in it because it was something like, wow, it's mysterious because it came from cannabis, but we can take this one and people are curious, so it was just a good timing and luck that that had happened at that time and that I'd had that idea. And my team doctor said I couldn't, so it sparked something in me.

58:13It started to grow, and then that's when I was like, okay, shit, this could be my next career because I always used to be real worried what I was going to do after rugby because I know that I'm someone that it's got to be something I'm passionate about. otherwise I'm not going to apply myself. And I didn't know what that was, but I was waiting and looking for what that was because I knew whatever my passion and drive goes into, I can give it everything. But I didn't know. And then this came, I was like, this is it. So a huge part of my drive with Pulesport was to create a new career for myself too and that I'll just be giving it everything.

58:48So for two years, and then I had the chance after Glasgow to go play for a club in France. And then I was like, okay, I could go play in France for a couple of years and that would be a sick experience and that would be a cool way to finish my career. But I've got this business that's starting to grow now. This is my next career and I've got to really try and make the most of this now. So then I strategically chose to not go to France, which was a tough decision, and I took up a contract at London Scottish in the championship. And because the reason I did that is they train only three days a week and they finish at lunchtime and it's in London.

59:29And I was like, that's the perfect setup for me to be able to pay my rent, not take money out the business, but grow the business. Hopefully I can go out within a year or two to get to the point where I can take a salary out and live off that salary from the business and I'm done with rugby. But the fact, the reality is at that point I was quite shit at rugby compared to what I was before because I was done. like mentally I was doing it because I was like

59:57Grayson Hart:so many similarities between your story and mine I was never quite as good as you in rugby but fuck I'm bad bro I know you you would have been a nuggety dude so there's there's two parts to your story right there's grace in the rugby player which I mean the two intertwine because I think there's so many lessons from rugby that you would have carried through to pure sport but there's grace in the rugby player and there's grace in the founder and the passion you showed in both one just in what you've you know spoke about for the last 20, 30 minutes within rugby. It's certainly what I think a lot of people would have seen, those that followed the pure sport journey.

1:00:31Grayson Hart:I've been very lucky to be involved with it from very early on, the connection with Will bringing me on board as I guess an early ambassador for what you were doing. The OG ambassador, man. But you're a classic founder, like myself, often leading with emotion, but just an incredible amount of dogginess and passion for what you're doing. So back then you're in this kind of hybrid role of winding down a rugby career, assessing what the options are to give you that security afterwards. And actually to this day, like my goal when I moved out of rugby was just to be able to take a salary. And that's why building the first gym was so much to me because I was like, I've got a physical place to work where I can go and just like, at least I can keep putting food on the table because I didn't know what my identity was going to be beyond rugby.

1:01:16Grayson Hart:I genuinely didn't know what that would be. Fitness so happened to be the thing that I could excel in. So you've come up with this product. And timing, I think, was great for you because, as we've seen over the last few years, CBD has become a lot more mainstream. But how did you then take this idea and a few products to what has arguably been the last four to five years? Particularly in the UK, I think anyone that you speak to will know that Pure Sport is known for probably the fastest growing community that's ever been built. And one is there's a visceral connection with the consumer. So let's talk through the first couple of years Because it was a small Small circle of people that were influential in that time Yeah, I think You know The bit that I realised when I'd learnt that I'd Taken my opportunity in rugby in New Zealand for granted And kind of like gone off on a bad track And that never left me And so when I started Pure Sport I anyone that believed in this brand or this product I was just genuinely grateful like because think about it I was a rugby player and I had this idea and then I was driven to create the best quality product I could and get it certified but I had no idea about business and I also had no like scientific or nutritional background or anything like that so like in my mind it was like I'm going to just do everything I can to make sure that I utilize the expertise to create the best possible product.

1:02:51And I also, I wrote this thing down because starting a business is quite scary, like, like, because the likelihood is that like, you don't know how it's going to go. And you got it to, especially when you're a founder and it's a bootstrap, it's you, you are doing everything. You got to put yourself out there. You got to be bold, like, and you got to be willing to fail in front of everyone like your peers especially because we are conditioned to like worry what people think about but it's never true and doing something like this and you know well makes you realize people's opinions of you that one they don't really even exist they only exist in your own mind and so what you know but you got to do the things that you need to do and you got to put yourself out there and that can be uncomfortable at times and so when when that's the case and someone believes in you and they buy your product I would when an order would come through and in those days man at the start I'll get like five or six orders a week and I'll be like fuck and I'd read the name come up on the screen I'd be like thank you like you know I'd read it I'd be like yeah and I'd write the name and on the envelope I'd take it to the post office and like it was just a genuine like feeling of gratitude and I was like everyone that believes in this brand I want to foster them because I've got no right for them to believe in a business I've just created but I know the product's great but they are showing faith in me so my ethos from the start is anyone that messaged on Instagram or email or interacted or bought a product they were they were the foundation of my business and then the way I viewed it is never stop doing that like every touch point that pure sports ever had my drive has been to make sure that the people feel valued and that they're part of what we're doing um so every dm you know i remember at the start when it was only me for that first two years i would click on their name so on that message and i'll check what their their actual name was and i'll reply with their name and i'll like thank you so much for you know so and so for da da da anyone that tagged us i'll always thank them like because think about when you go out your way to interact with a brand or a person or share their content or share something to do with them, how much does it mean to you if they take that little bit of time?

1:05:14And then the power of that when you're a bigger brand, but then also think about if you've tagged a brand that you think is cool or you've interacted with them and they're just blank you. You're not going out your way to dislike them, but it's a vast difference than that actual like feeling of connection and appreciation so from the start I was like I had no resource I was always like I'll make the best product I'm gonna do the best I can I'm gonna connect with people and but I think my biggest passion in Peel Sport was like I wanted to create a working environment where like everyone could be themselves because I think there's this environment or perspective of like workplaces these days that it's like everyone's looking to be offended and everyone's got like rigid guidelines of how you should be and how you should act and all that it's like just be good people and connect with each other and be honest with each other and be yourself because for me like the ability to be yourself that's one of the things I value the most in life um and being yourself all humans in their core are good like your core is good so the more you're encouraged to be yourself that's bringing your core out which is good you know when you get try people to get them to be a certain way they're not going to be themselves and they're going to try and then the more you try the more you get further away from your core you know so that was something that I was passionate about and I wanted that to filter through everything that we did.

1:06:43And then the other touch point is I wanted to utilise these natural products and what I found profound about the CBD and the mushrooms is your body is actually designed to interact with these resources from nature, like receptors that are designed to connect with CBD, the endocannabinoid system and neurotransmitters in the brain that lions may interact with to repair neural pathways. I just found that shit so fascinating that we're connected with nature and we're designed to interact with it. And so a big part of my passion is getting people to question the status quo and how we're living and how we're looking after ourselves.

1:07:26So sense of belonging, appreciation for the people for being part of what you're doing and not ever pretending that that's not the case. And that questioning of the status quo of like the interconnectedness of ourself and nature and life and how we're living. Those are the foundations of Pure Sport. And pretty much for me, the product was a symbol for those meanings, you know. And I just wanted people to feel part of that meaning. That's where we created the run club and the community. And yeah, that for me has been my drive and passion with Pure Sport.

1:08:02Grayson Hart:The sense of belonging piece, where did that come from? From rugby, from your dad? Yeah, I think, you know, I think growing up in the way that we did, I always had a feeling like I wasn't good enough, you know. Like my dad wasn't employed. He'd had drug addiction issues. We lived in a poor area and, like, we went without. And, you know, when you're a little kid and you're going and you're playing rugby and you see the other families and all of that, and it's like you sometimes feel not good enough or you don't belong or you shouldn't be there. So like that was, and then in the rugby environments, like rugby, as you know, rugby is a very like, they like people to be the same.

1:08:44They try to make all the players be the same, you know, like it's that same thing, the tall poppy syndrome. It's like they want everyone, like no one's, like you do things the way the team does it. That's that, you know, and if you do something different, even if it's not a problem, like it's kind of like, why are you being different? And I don't think that's a good way to be. I think everyone should be free to be themselves. And by being yourself, you're going to adhere to the collective because your core is good. And so that was something I never felt like I belonged in the rugby environment because I would question things.

1:09:19And, you know, like, yeah, like, if you're interested in different things that aren't just the norm that the rugby guy's interested in, it's a bit, oh, you're an outsider, you're a bit weird or whatever, you know. So I just wanted a place that, that made me understand that all humans want to know that they are all good as they are. So for me, the Run Club was like, it's a place for anyone and everyone to come along. And what I said to all team members that ever joined Pure Sport is anyone that ever comes to any of our events, our job is to make them know that they are one of us, that whoever they are, whatever they're there for, whatever they're doing, they're good.

1:09:59you know and that's the ethos behind the community and i think yeah the world's shifted in its perspective of how we live and how we look after ourselves and people are looking for ways to socialize and connect that aren't just the pub or the nightclub you know so if you can provide something 90 of why people go to run club is social connection the running's like 10 of it you know and it also helps that running's growing and like becoming more part of people's lifestyles But yeah, everything about the ethos behind how we did it and what we were doing was to provide a sense of belonging.

1:10:31Grayson Hart:There's some lessons here for founders. I think it starts with, well, you mentioned the world-class product, like trying to create the best CBD that you could with the resource that you have, doing things with good intention at all times and harnessing the power of just your own personal experiences and times when you feel as though you were discredited or wrongdoing was done to you and there's a different way of doing things, you can create a pretty powerful business and go on to create some pretty incredible things like you have done with PureSpot off the back of very little from the get-go, right?

1:11:06Yeah, I think I had five grand and 200 bottles of CBD at the start. That was it. Handwritten, I can think. I had no packaging. Couldn't afford packaging. I remember seeing them out, I'm going to get packaging one day, man. It's going to be sick. But yeah, I think I don't know man, like honestly If I can create it Anyone can, because I had no Skills, I had no Knowledge, like nothing I was clueless But also Sometimes being clueless is a superpower Because you just find a way You ain't bogged down by how you should Do it, and if you're passionate Like And no one's ever going to have that drive and passion and meaning behind it that the founder does, right?

1:11:51So don't be afraid to share that. Don't be embarrassed to share that with people like your team, your customer, your ambassadors, your community. And, yeah, just share it to the world. And I also think business, businesses are truly an opportunity for positive change in the world, especially small businesses, not the corporate, because big corporations, they've got this big infrastructure and it's all just about making money at the end of the day. Small businesses, they can be truly influential on changing society. And I think the only real way to change society and the path of society and what we prioritise in life, it has to start from the ground up, like real people making changes in their own lives.

1:12:41You can't rely on the top down, because the top down I find is too wrapped up in their agendas for like money and power and all that. But the bottom up, and businesses have a huge opportunity to influence real life people from the ground up and like change their perception on themselves like without limits, you know, and how are we living our life and what are we prioritized? Like, you know, you promoting, like living your life truly as a good father, you know, and then how that knocks on into your business. And yeah, man, like that's something that drives me in terms of what I'm so passionate about.

1:13:23I love the supplements and I love making the apparel. And I find it all like genuinely like I really enjoy the creative process and building the understanding and meaning behind it and connecting it to people. but my biggest passion is like getting people to question how we're living our lives and I think that has to come from the ground up it has to be lived you know um how did you develop how did you

1:13:50Grayson Hart:develop this level of thinking because I've seen it in in bits more so over the last few months um prior to that like I relax we used to speak for at length particularly through um lockdowns and things but I didn't I probably wasn't quite as aware of how deeply and how how much you critique agendas and constraints placed on us yeah I think I fight like I'm drawn to it though because there's things you said today that the way you're articulating it makes you think a little bit differently you know oh fuck there's yeah he's he's right yeah I I think um every single human being has a strong intuition that we're something more than we appear to be or that society has told us that we are like I think society has it ingrained in us that all we are is our body and our thoughts and from that perspective you're seeking security out in the outward world whereas actually if you look at it at a deeper level the most happy peaceful content abundant people it's not about what they have and it's not about the perception they have of others they're just peaceful and there could be really peaceful happy content people that have very little and there can be very peaceful happy content people that have a lot but then neither are defined by that thing and then you can have very unhappy people that have little and very unhappy people that have a lot right so it can't ever be the thing and the perception and the outward stuff it's about the understanding you have of who you are and going through that loss of my dad and then my rugby career, going off the rails and really exhausting that outward search to fill that void made me really have to question, like, who am I and what is life about?

1:15:41And so that's why I say I think life is giving us opportunities every day, sometimes wrapped up in success, sometimes wrapped up in hardship, to question, like, okay. Because you know something powerful? when I made my Scotland debut I had dreamed my whole life of becoming an international rugby player and it shifted from the All Blacks to Scotland but that was cool because they do well in Scotland rugby, they get paid well and it's six nations and it's cool, so that was my drive, I made my Scotland rugby debut, my family was proud, I got my life back on track, things were going good, I was earning good money I sat in that hotel room and I still remember it man, I sat in the hotel room And I was like, man, I dreamed of this.

1:16:26This is like a milestone for me. This is like something amazing. And I sat there and I was like, I still am the exact same human. Like it doesn't make me feel happier. It doesn't make me feel more fulfilled. It's cool. Like it's great. But it doesn't define me. It doesn't add anything to who I am at my core. And that's powerful to recognize that stuff too. because if we don't, we're taught to just keep fucking chasing outcomes all the time to feel better. But achieving shit and doing shit that's meaningful to you is amazing because creating and connecting and building, that stuff's cool, and learning and evolving, that stuff's really cool, but it will never actually make you happier.

1:17:13That's the biggest understanding that I've never been able to unsee through the things I've faced in my life, through the achievements and the lows. Like if you, the mind will tell you, look for happiness, abundance, contentment, peace in the outside world. But it's like a dog chasing its tail. And I really chased my tail in those young years after my dad died and it exhausted me to the point where I had to ask the question. Whereas some people don't do it to that intensity and it's just low level like discontent and they just live a life of it. It was just that, I don't know, man, something happened at that point in my life that it shifted everything.

1:17:56Grayson Hart:I mean, the final one for me is it might be hard to identify, but you've obviously gone through a great deal of trauma in your life, which has helped you find that perspective. What do people do that haven't yet gone through that level of trauma? Yeah, I think like going through really hard stuff can like make, it makes you have to question like, because when there's no way out of the darkness, you got, you can either just carry on into the depths of darkness. and I believe that's how people become like drug addicts and things like that. There's that way or the only other way is like, okay, I got to find peace somehow and I'm not finding it out there and I don't want to keep going down that road.

1:18:41And then you look in and you see like within you, there's a background which all the thoughts, feelings and perceptions arise upon and that is actually peaceful regardless of how hard or down or sad the current circumstances or feelings are. like there's a background that's peaceful that we've never been taught to look at it's just who we are it's there that's why like you know there's moments like humans have different feelings like we feel down someday we we feel sad we have hard thoughts we have and and then we have good moments and happy moments and great experiences it's you're living a facade or or an illusion if you are chasing only good feelings and happiness and good things because that's not how life works you know and the more we understand that we're the background the awareness that all these different thoughts feelings experience arise upon we actually operate in a in a way of clarity you know because if you think you're trying to avoid bad thoughts feelings and experiences you're living in anxiety and insecurity and your mind's not clear whereas if you know you're good regardless of the circumstance or feeling.

1:19:50You bring yourself back to clarity, back to balance, back to peace, and then solutions arise or the difficulty of the situation is seen to be not as bad as what it seems to be. So I think, I guess the reason I explain it that way is that is available to everybody. That's not only available to someone who's faced real trauma and difficulty. so that understanding, that ability to go inward and say, who am I and what is aware of my kind of thoughts, feelings, and experience, that's available to everybody. The society we live in has just sent us on a wild goose chase outward, because think about the most powerful people in the world.

1:20:35They're the most fearful, anxious, insecure people, and they've built their foundation on sand, right, and they have to keep selling that insecurity to the world to hold their position and it filters down. And then we're taught you need the house, you need the marriage, you need the finances, you need the degree, you need the approval of the people around you, da-da-da-da. It's all built on insecurity and it's chasing and it's never enough. Whereas you look at the most profound, peaceful, happy people, whatever they're doing in their life, they are just good in the moment and every moment they're good, whatever the feelings.

1:21:15So I think That would be my best thing You don't need trauma If you feel sad, down, insecure Or you feel good, excited, happy Ask yourself what is it within me that's aware of that experience And you just keep asking yourself that question You'll find that that space within you is good regardless All the time And then you get a new perspective

1:21:37Grayson Hart:I think that's a good place to wrap it up This has been one of the most powerful conversations I've ever had Thanks bro Fuck, I mean listen there's a lot of your history that I can relate to and I think that's probably why we get on so well and there's a lot of synergy between us and we've become good friends I'm grateful you came into the fitness space with Pure Sport it's been a good four or five years since I first got to know you I'm really looking forward to the next four or five years brother me too man and I'm unbelievably grateful for you and March on crew and you were an example of and I saw you and what you were doing in the fitness space and I called you up and you gave me the time of day and I explained to you my passion, my vision for the product and you're like, man, I want to give it a go.

1:22:23And you said to me, I will not promote something unless I believe in it and it helps me, you know. And so I was like, just try the product, man, and see how you go because I said that's what I want. I want people that's true. and from that day onwards like that authenticity and that sharing of that like just passion to bring the vision to life through you and March on and me and Pilsson we had that funny little period where we were both into like the NFG and we started we had teams that were like competing right how old competitive fucking spirit got got the best of us at times but man it was all it's been amazing bro and i'm always grateful for you and what you've done for us you've always stayed

1:23:08Grayson Hart:true fuck yeah bro thanks grace