Breaking free from toxic fitness culture, and building a routine that works (with Sarah’s Day)

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1:44Grace Beverley: What is up? I'm Grace Beverly and welcome back to Working Hard, the podcast shape guidebook on how to improve your own life and achieve what you actually dreamed of doing. Because life's too short for boring podcasts and bad advice.

1:59Grace Beverley: What is up and welcome back to Working Hard. I have another episode from our Australia series for you today and it is time for a part two. Way back in 2023 Sarah Tills also known as Sarah's Day came on the podcast. We had a super honest chat about the early online fitness industry and how she looks at it retrospectively and a lot of different things about routine and everything as well. So when I knew I was coming back to Australia I knew we needed a proper catch-up and to do a refresh and once again it is a big chat with a lot covered. We talk about how the fitness and wellness industry has changed again for the better and for worse right now.

2:30Grace Beverley: What it's actually like being a mum on the internet and we go deep on motivation, discipline and toxicity online. But before we get into it, please do yourselves a favour and obviously me a favour too and follow the podcast wherever you're listening to it on right now. It means that we can keep this podcast completely free for you, which is my aim. So if you press that follow button, that means every single Monday you will get an episode ready to improve your life completely for free.

2:59Grace Beverley: Sarah Tills, are you currently more working hard or hardly working? I feel like working hard. I feel like once you become a mum, even if it's not business, you're always working hard. Like always on. Always on. Always. That's the thing I'm kind of most scared of. Not because I don't like that, but because I'm already so like that and I work so hard to be able to detach and I feel like I won't be able to do that anymore. No. Here's what I say to my friends who are like, oh my, like who don't have kids. They say, I'm so tired now. How am I going to do this when I am a mom? I'm like, everything is true whatever season you're in.

3:34Because I remember thinking like, I'm working so hard. I'm so tired. I don't have kids. Everything is true in your own season. And I feel like it's like just a different kind of work. But also the deeper you get into motherhood, you create structures and systems. and systems is the key to motherhood and like allowing yourself to enjoy the micro moments and working and juggling business and motherhood it's all about systems yeah because my like one

4:00Grace Beverley: of the things I used to do too much of which I realized that I it wasn't good for me in in the business and like with work generally is like jump between different types of work very fast all the time and that's what I kind of feel like you have to do with motherhood because you have to be able to like constantly jump and I'm like I feel like I'm going to find that very overwhelming but I'm excited but I'm just very conscious of the fact that I think even saying that now though is so you're already ahead of the game because I learned that probably with my second child like taking off a hat and putting on a hat within an hour you speak a different language you kind of have a different posture about you when you're with your kids you're like soft and graceful and really patient and then soft and graceful a day you will be you will be you will be and then when you're in certain meetings you're I guess a bit more like structured and rigid yeah what I've learned is I try my best to have separate days but we can get into this more but I feel like yeah I've learned that I can't put on and off hats within the same minute within the same hour it's that's what makes me frustrated with the juggle and I never want to feel frustrated with either business or motherhood because I love them both but I think putting on and off the hat minute by minute is what makes you frustrated.

5:16Grace Beverley: Right. No, I totally get that. And obviously, I mean, we last kind of spoke three years ago. Yeah. So can you give a little highlights, I guess, of how your life's changed since then? I feel like so much. I feel genuinely the happiest I've ever felt, the most content. I think for a few reasons. I've always wanted three kids. Like I've always known deep in my soul I was going to have three boys and now I have three boys. Congratulations on such accurate manifestation. Seriously. Like it wasn't, I don't know, I just had this gut feeling and I like I said it flippantly. Like I didn't really mean it, but now I'm like, wow, that's bizarre.

5:53So now I have a seven-year-old son, a four-year-old and a 16-month-old, almost 17 months. and since we last spoke I forget if I still had my Sunny app then but really I've just been working on my 560 workout challenge which is something I really needed after my postpartum experience with my last son. I had severe sleep deprivation where we were going through reflux, I didn't have a great birth and I just felt really empty to be honest so I've been creating products that I feel like I really needed and listening to my audience and I feel like other mothers needed. I did my cookbook. I feel like I hadn't launched that yet.

6:33I launched my first cookbook that's been a bestseller. I've just been busy in all areas of like creating recipes, creating workouts, being a mom and just juggling it every day.

6:42Grace Beverley: And what does that kind of juggle or that like balance look like for you with obviously with three kids, with running a business, with how that's grown over time? Each season, honestly, every month, it kind of changes depending how old my kids are. And now I feel like I'm in a really good rhythm now that I've just stopped breastfeeding. I feel like the first year when I have a newborn, honestly, I have no structure. I have no system. I'm very hands-on with all of my boys. Now I really try to have two designated work days. Like I said, I like to have my work hat on for the day. And then when I'm in work, I'm there, I'm present I'm super intentional and then when I'm not I try to not have my phone on I have everything on silent I try to be incontactable so usually it's like two work days um and then the rest I'm just like at home or I'm filming content or I'm just with my boys but Monday and Fridays are like my non-negotiables do not call me don't contact me I'll be in no meetings it's like I'm with my kids now that even my team honor that um that's been the best yeah yeah and I think it's about I guess finding those structures and obviously we all have different levels to which that's achievable in our lives and I think that like really understanding what that is for you and your lifestyle I feel like that's yeah it's generally the biggest hack even when children aren't even in the picture yeah but even if you ask me in like three months that might change it depends on my goals and I think with a lot of us particularly if you're an entrepreneur you kind of have these different waves of motivation and like you come up with an idea and you're like oh my my gosh, I'm going to create this product or this movement.

8:19And you have this new, I guess, wind about you. Then I will carve out time and I make structures and I use my babysitter more and like Harlow's still there with me with my babysitter. So I go through waves and I'm a classic creative where I work really, really, really hard for like eight months. And then I get a little bit burnt out and I take a step back. So my structure is always changing, but that is what I enjoy. I don't like rigid structure all the time.

8:45Grace Beverley: And I heard you talk as well about the fact that you've had a bit of a reset this year since having like a particularly tough year last year. What's that kind of looked like for you? I think for me with Harlow, he had such severe reflux that I was feeding him every 40 minutes. Oh my God. 24 seven. And I've never, I've never experienced that sense of darkness within myself. And I've had family members and best friends that have gone through depression and had postpartum depression and I've never fully understood it. I would always say, go for a run, go outside, like do something for yourself until last year.

9:26And it was the darkest and most alone I've ever felt. And once we got through that period and I weaned him and I kind of got a little bit more autonomy over my body and not in a look sense, just in like I could physically go to the shops and come back and not have to be on a time limit of milk. I just kind of sat down with myself and I thought, how am I going to feel like myself again? I feel like I've lost myself. And I feel like that's super common. Giving yourself grace in the first year of motherhood that you do change and you do sometimes feel like a diluted version of yourself because you're giving so much.

10:06And I think I reached a point after Harlow that I was like, I've done this three times now. I just want to feel like I'm pouring back into myself because every day I'm getting lunch boxes. I'm getting them ready. I'm doing the housework. I'm ordering groceries. I'm feeding everyone. I'm caring for everyone. I need to feel like I'm doing something to pour back into myself. So I sat down and I wrote out five rules that I wanted to do. And it was eating healthier, being off my screen, being intentional with my workouts, learning a new skill. and I thought I'm going to commit to this and basically I ended up writing this challenge called the 560 challenge which is 60 days you stick to five rules you're really intentional just to give yourself a reset and a refresh and I put it online I put it on social media and the response was insane it was a lot of mothers kind of needing that refresh and reset as well so I created a challenge where people could you know be a part of it and do the five rules and do the workouts and it's been the most refreshing and invigorating movement I think I've done since becoming a mum I feel like I've like got a part of me back and a bit of pep in my step and even though I'm still with my kids and intentional I feel like every day I'm doing little micro movements to pull back into myself that I feel like Sarah again and not just mum yeah and I guess because obviously you've had three kids in the last few years yeah there's

11:30Grace Beverley: and you say that obviously the year after it can be particularly tough um which I've heard a lot of people saying as well obviously that hasn't left that much time in between how have you navigated I guess that change in identity around like who you are and how you feel about yourself in terms of like I guess a lot of mothers in that time feel like they are constantly serving other people or being something that you know is a vessel for other people rather than themselves like how have you navigated that shift it definitely gets easier the more kids you have because you can reflect I for sure struggled the most with this with Fox my oldest son because I you can't reflect you can't reflect on how fleeting moments are so I've really enjoyed this period with Harlow because I can reflect on, wow, newborn season goes in a blink of an eye and the toddler season goes so fast.

12:30So I think I don't really have that battle within myself now, but with Fox, I think surrounding yourself with people that maybe have a similar value system to you and encourage you and I guess allow you to give yourself grace. I think mothers need to give ourselves so much grace and just be really intentional with your time and try not to feel guilt. Like every day you're going to feel some type of guilt, whether it's like business guilt or mother guilt. I think a lot of it for me was just surrounding myself with people that were like, you're doing a really good job and like you're doing your best and you can't be everywhere and you can't be everything for everyone.

13:16So yeah, I think my mom, my sisters, my friends surround yourself with people who truly love you and take care of your heart because like you need to lean on other women.

13:25Grace Beverley: Yeah, no, I think that's totally fair enough and definitely like reflective of what I've kind of generally heard in terms of how you can enable, like of course you want to do your best job at multiple of those different things and it is just that constant pull between them that I don't think necessarily is reflected in all roles when it comes to you know parenting when it comes to all of that do you think there are significant parts of yourself that you let go of when becoming a mom yeah I think I'm super flexible now like I think prior to having kids I it was a different time then but I was really fixated that I would like train at a certain time I would eat a certain food.

14:10I would eat at a certain time before I trained. I'm like the most flexi person ever now. Motherhood is the best thing that's ever happened to me in every aspect of my life because I'm much more resilient. I'm super flexible. I can kind of go with the flow. And I think I'm more enjoyable to be around as well because it's less about me. I'm a lot more, yeah, I guess I care about other people more. I'm more empathetic to people. So I think, yeah, how I've changed is that I can just like, if I can fit a workout in at like, I fit a workout in this morning at like 4.40 in the morning and like, that's fine.

14:46Or if I have to do it at nighttime, it's fine. So I think just being flexible.

14:50Grace Beverley: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I need to gain some of that. You'll get it though. Hopefully I will. I remember the first time it happened, I had just had Fox and I called my mom and I was like, I just like want to go to the gym or something. I like, it was lunchtime and I had never used to train at lunchtime. And I remember being at the gym thinking like, is this going to be my new thing? Like, do I just have to train like whenever confirming to my past self that's what happens yeah yeah like you I mean I followed you all the way back from way before you had children and like your whole journey from that point to now obviously as part of that you know you've you shared family life as that's now like started and evolved have you found that like easier to work out the boundaries of where that is versus like what's what you want to be sharing what you don't want to be sharing all of that like as you've had more children I'm a lot more conscious now I feel like before I had kids I was a complete open book and I am to a certain extent but I will always preface it's Sarah's day that's my channel it's about me it's about my life and my emotions and what I'm going through and although a huge chunk of my life and my thoughts and my intentions are my children, they are never the core of my content and I'm very intentional about that.

16:10They obviously know what I do. My oldest son is very aware. He loves it. But they're never the core of my channel. And I share a lot about motherhood but not things that I obviously feel uncomfortable about or I feel like is stepping the boundary. Like I get asked a lot about like potty training. I don't go through that yeah I don't give advice where it's not my expertise it's like my kids are in the background of a lot of my content but also I used to vlog every three days and now I do two YouTube videos a month so it's like you see micro moments of my life and my day um so they never

16:46Grace Beverley: I actually don't find it that hard yeah yeah and what specific boundaries have you had to put in place to kind of really protect that and protect what you see is like the appropriate look into your life while you still being able to live your life in a way that's not just online? I consciously put myself in my kids' shoes, particularly my middle son. When I was pregnant with him, I remember going through this on your podcast three years ago. We were going through health issues when I was pregnant with him. And I said I wasn't going, all anyone needed to know that was I was going through issues in my pregnancy.

17:19We were told to terminate, but we were going forward with the pregnancy. So I've put myself in Mally's shoes and I think if he ever wants to open up about anything, it's up to him, but it's, it's not up to me anymore. So I'm more, and I have a lot of open dialogue, particularly with Fox cause he's old enough. And I say like, do you want to vlog Fiji? He loves it. Him and his friends sit there and they watch our Fiji vlog and everything I film is very like family friendly. And like, I, I, I consciously don't cross a boundary I never show them having a tantrum or upset sure I think it's a lot of common sense yeah I think like I don't really have to put boundaries in place I kind of know this is not a time to film and we just film the fun moments of a holiday so yeah yeah it's pretty

18:03Grace Beverley: it's pretty easy yeah and I guess over time as well you kind of adjust to what feels right and what feels like the thing for your family and I ask them like Malachi often doesn't want to be on camera and so he's in not in a lot of vlogs he's not in a lot of footage or he's in like a micro moment because he wants to be in it because he likes to see himself on our family vlogs um but he's often not in it because he doesn't want to film and that's totally fine yeah and we spoke before as well in in our last episode together about how you know we've both been in this space since way back seriously like 14 years well yeah I mean yours will have been longer than me I was I was in from 2015 so mine was 11 years so different but and we were talking about then about like how hard it can be to look back at some of like the original like Fitsbo culture and like the environment that we originally kind of started creating in and like grew up and learned in as well how have you kind of continued to look back on that I guess over time as like so much of your personal brand I guess but also like what you talk about and what you show is so far removed from that now.

19:15Totally I guess I look back and kind of laugh I think a lot of us do that with anything when you're you look back about yourself when you're 18 or 21 and silly things you used to do and mine just so happened to be on like a public platform for a million people so I think it's like that like I just give myself a lot of grace that I was growing up in front of a lot of eyes and, you know, it's built me to where I am now and being the person I am now. But I'm actually really grateful I kind of went through all those seasons because now I have such a different appreciation for the, I guess, happiness and freedom I feel, particularly in my fitness and the way that I approach wellness and living my life in a way that is not only maintainable, but like so enjoyable like I love moving my body because I'm so grateful that I have a body I can move now like I've been through all three of my pregnancies do you have SPD at all like pelvic

20:10Grace Beverley: pain oh like pelvic girdle pain yeah oh you have I've like oh I've developed this thing where I like can't walk for over like like 25 minutes without getting like searing pain yeah and I was like walking around this was when I was on my layover and I was like walking around and I've been i was super sedentary like my whole first trimester um and yeah because i was sick and like i was just like i'm not going to push myself in any way and then like so i was on this long flight obviously and i was like i want to move as possible as much as possible in between because obviously i'm like well i'm sitting down for 24 hours either side of that and i was like walk i was like i'll put my headphones in and go on like an hour walk around the airport half an hour and I was just literally like crawling back to where I'd left my luggage.

20:56Grace Beverley: I was literally like, oh. I can feel it. Like when you say it, I can feel it. Yeah. I went through that with three of my pregnancies. So now, and as much as I hated it in the moment, I love that I went through that because now I just, I just appreciate my body for what it has built, my children, what it's done. And so fitness to me, it's like a blessing that I get to move. And I think even seeing my parents get older and seeing people I love get older, I'm just like so aware that we have this body and this age once and I love my body and I love movement. So I don't know. I'm in a really good space with that.

21:33And I just like love moving my body and love eating healthy because I want to feel my best. So a wild difference to training for aesthetics in the past and like wanting to look a certain way. Now I want to run a certain distance and have set goals, which are so far removed from the way I look.

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23:12Grace Beverley: And I think it's funny because I think so that's so true to most people. I mean, that's a huge like generalization. But I do think that like most people over time, they move from maybe fixating on certain things that actually don't affect your wider life in that much. And kind of really focusing on like specifically how you look or like how you look in photos or like whatever it might be. you realize it doesn't actually make you happy yeah you know it doesn't bring you this joy that you think it's going to once you reach say you're like I want to have a six-pack once you reach that you go oh I'm actually like that's great but I'm not fulfilled yeah and I think one of the big things that I've learned as well is like the amount of effort needed to put in to achieve certain things in terms of aesthetics versus what you actually get out of them is completely mismatched and you're the only one who cares yeah and also you're the only one who suffers like as in so for example like I don't I don't I probably sit I don't know I don't sit probably naturally at the weight that if I was aspiring to a certain aesthetic that I would be you know a hundred percent happy with just like fully honest the difference though in the lifestyle I would have to live throughout that time to change that to where I want it to be absolutely categorically could say hand on heart is not worth it like the difference it would need in terms of like how much time I spend with my friends how much I eat out how much where you go to eat yeah where I go to eat how I'm able to travel given how much I need to walk a day is my favorite dinner but like it just and I think that that changing over time in terms of like okay if everything we're doing is to make our lives better then what is actually making your life better like is your life better because you are smaller and because you are slimmer or is it better because you know that meant that you fit in with certain people who actually you just need to go and get other better friends or like whatever it might be and I think that like really getting to like coming to terms with like what genuinely makes my life better I've so like shifted in terms of like versus me in 2015 starting a fitness account wanting to be as small as possible and wanting to every single year get as small as possible after inevitably like burning out at the end of summer and then like going back and doing the same thing over and over it's like that fucks up your body so badly it's so like the effort that requires yeah it just meant that i was like i just think over the past few years i've been like god like how did i even have the willpower because the miss there was a complete mismatch in effort to reward yeah like it doesn't even make sense on any level yeah and i think that naturally like when you're younger it feels like it makes more sense because certain things have more weighting like certain forms of acceptance or certain forms of being seen a certain way or whatever it might be and I think naturally as you grow up like so many of us have realized like at what cost do I live like that that's what I love about pregnancy though like I as much as I was uncomfortable in my pelvis I loved being pregnant because you have this new body shape and you learn to love it or I mean hopefully I think yeah I kind of saw my body in a different light and learned to love my body and I think that really shifted that was the start of my shift hugely yeah and what would you say feels most different about you now versus you at the start of your career

26:57I am much more intentional I have a better work-life balance now I think before and I don't regret it because before I had kids, I was hustle culture. Like I was like up at 5am, going to bed some nights at 2am, working, working, working, hustling, hustling, wanted to make Sarah's day fruitful enough that I could leave uni and it could be, you know, my job. And I had this vision of building this brand and not just being a vlogger, but creating this brand Sarah's day. And while I don't promote that hustle culture and burnout culture, I'm somewhat grateful it happened because it set the foundations and the structures for me to now be able to have a better work-life balance with my kids um but I would say the stark difference is I've just learned that good business is done through systems hiring the right people working with a team as opposed to you doing everything and burning out and then needing like a week off So I think just the way I live my life in terms of hour by hour, I'm a lot calmer.

28:07Grace Beverley: So like consistency over intensity. Totally. Yeah. And I think that is something, again, it's like you naturally learn it over time through doing the wrong thing. And I think it takes some people longer. Like it's taken me so long to truly internalize the fact that actually the more intense I am, the less consistent I am. Totally. Really? Often because I physically cannot continue at that intensity, even if I want to. And it's like, okay, well, if you're doing this to be the most productive version of yourself or to build this business to the best it can possibly be, but you burn yourself out so badly that you sit down some afternoons and you're literally like, I don't know how to get to the end of this day.

28:46Grace Beverley: That's actually not productive at all. Yeah. And I think when you work for yourself and you find yourself, I heard this quote the other day, it was on like social media or something. And it was something about if you're a person, and this is me, who naturally gravitates towards stressful environments, like I have this unhealthy relationship with loving intensity. I love stressful situations, like down to the wire. I want my hands in all the pies. I take on a lot and I will never change. And that's fine. I've accepted that about myself. But one thing I saw on social media a few months ago that has rocked me and I have consciously tried to lean into this is in moments of stress where you are exuding stress and you are like chasing that feeling of, okay, this is done.

29:35I've handed in that, you know, I've launched that campaign. I've launched that website and you're craving that sense of relief in those moments. Try to be the calms version of yourself and enjoy the intensity without letting the stress overcome you because I find myself even in meetings looking stressed and looking flustered because I'm craving the ah moment so I've really been focusing on trying to love those stressful moments because I do I love the rush but being a calm presence among the stress so that's something I'm working on is just to be the calmest person in the

30:14Grace Beverley: stressful room I like that and I feel like part of that is like decreasing the peaks as much as you can like it doesn't need to be this up down in fact it's probably best if you like make sure the up is a little bit less up whereas we so naturally as you say gravitate to what exactly like as in there's a reason you run towards those environments there's a reason why you feel that thrill which is great and like it's in some ways like it's a very it's a massive privilege to feel a thrill around anything to do with work because a lot of people won't feel that or whatever it might be but needing to understand that actually the higher peak the higher the peak the lower the trough and really understanding that day to day so that you can be like I'm actually not going to run on this now like I do that with new ideas for example because like I love a new idea I'm happy to run away with it I love to build oh yeah maintaining so much more boring exactly love to 100 % so like I'll go a million miles an hour on something particularly if I'm inspired on it and all of this and it's like understanding how to harness that and when to use that and when to be like great you've got this idea do a little brain dump come back to it in 48 hours and if it's still that exciting rather than you just giving yourself this little drug of like the dopamine hit of doing this all now I know great then you can take it on I know but actually it doesn't need to like you don't need to constantly be gravitating towards that type of thing in fact if you know that's where your impulse comes from decrease the impulse like decrease the impulse by making it not that exciting and I think so many people who think like us will be like yeah but it's quite fun and my husband's the same I swear I married my twin in a beautiful way but also a bad enabling yeah we are we love to build we love to build brands we love to conceptualize and like we build this brand and then we're like yeah you have to maintain it and it's like oh I need a little bit of a break but yeah I think I've married someone very the same who we're very impulsive and we have these ideas and we get really excited and we work work work and then we like crave a little bit of yeah we go on holiday and come back yeah I mean I'm me and my husband the exact same and the fact like he's definitely he's a he's a calm presence like he's he's a lot more calm and all of that than me whereas I'm like all the time but we are both incredibly impulsive so it means that like even like last year yeah but sometimes like maybe exactly well sometimes it could have been a slow it didn't all need to be done and actually if you made a decision in 48 hours it probably would have been a better decision that is 2026 in a nutshell for me like I the amount of things we're working on I'm like why are we doing this all at once why are we doing this yeah I I I love the rush yeah I know I know and it is a good thing like I often I don't know I I don't want to go too far the other way as well because I also recognize that that is my power like I'm really good at that like I can do intensity and speed and sometimes I should run with that yeah other times like it's just that you need to know to be able to turn it off so that you don't consistently burn yourself out because if it's all in the name of productivity that's not actually productive and like really being able to understand that I feel like is important yeah yeah and what would you say the idea of like health means to you now I think it's again stemming from reflecting on pregnancy and you know building these babies and being uncomfortable in your body health to me is like overwhelmingly enjoying my life and I think leading into different seasons like right now I never thought I would be a runner I was always that person who was like I'm not a runner like ill running boring I'm I I don't like I'm gonna offend some people and say like I'm a runner but like I low-key run um and I'm just in that season like I was at the gym and these two other beautiful moms came up to me and asked me to be in this like group, this little training group.

34:18And it's the best, it's the best thing I have done in such a long time. We get up at like four in the morning, we meet up at five, we do our run. I'm on like the runner app. I'm like trucking it. It's yeah. I think now that I'm so much more removed from aesthetics and like, don't get me wrong. I want to feel confident in my body, but having that as the pillar of why I'm moving is just like so far removed from everything I'm doing now. But I guess health to me, it's like leaning into your season. I'm super flexible. I train in the morning because I love morning routine. Like my boys are in a really calm mood in the mornings.

34:53I feel like that's like weird. Most kids are crazy in the morning. My kids are crazy in the afternoon. So I work out in the morning. I go for my runs with my friends. I like to train with people. That's so weird to me. Back in the day, I was like headphones on, like boots, booty squats. No, I like I run with people. I have partners. I go to work with partners. I'm trying to get my husband to do high rocks with me. He's not keen, but I'm really keen. I'll get there. Watch this face. I'm going to get Kurt to do high rocks. Kurt, look at you. And then in terms of eating, again, pregnancy changed my life.

35:28Before getting pregnant, I was gluten intolerant. Everything would make me bloated. I was scared of certain foods. Now I'm like the cheese queen. I'm everything in moderation. We have lollies in the home. There are sometimes food. Educating my kids and showing them that, you know, mum's going for a run and she has lollies sometimes and we have fruit all the time. And I just kind of eat a little bit of everything in moderation. We don't restrict any food groups in our house. It's the most freeing feeling as opposed to where, you know, I was 14 years ago.

35:57Grace Beverley: And that's really interesting. I hadn't realised that you'd had so much of a shift, I guess, in terms of like the – because, I mean, and I say this with zero judgement at all. like as in I when I started online and generally me as a person like I've definitely had a like history of just like I've tried all these different types of eating like as if there's a way of eating I have tried it and I've seen if it works for me and I've like probably been evangelical about it at one point and then I've moved on and all of that what do you think it was about pregnancy or having kids that actually really changed your mindset around that and like I guess got you out of your own head?

36:36I think honestly when I was pregnant I wanted to test because I had heard a lot of women when you're pregnant you can eat certain foods that you can't so it just started with testing it and I just felt so sick that I was craving like Easy Mac which had dairy in it and I was like I'm just gonna try it. Long story short I ended up being fine and I could eat gluten and dairy so then once I had my babies and I was just consciously trying to eat healthier. I was still having sourdough and cheese and milk and all the things. And I think just anecdotally, I realized, oh, I actually feel better. It wasn't even, it wasn't a research.

37:12I hadn't read anything. It was just a reflection of like, oh, I'm not bloated anymore. I'm never thinking about food. I'm never judging myself of what I'm eating. I'm not comparing the protein sizes. I don't care about the macros. I feel good. I'm sleeping better. My skin's good. My hair is growing. I feel really fueled in the gym. I think it was just reflecting, oh, I'm eating all these foods that I used to be scared of. I'm eating them in moderation. I'm having very healthy full plates of protein, carbs and fats and colors and still having ice cream and not missing out on the moments with my family.

37:49We're going to get gelato, but we've just had, you know our steak and veggies I just upon reflection thought this is the healthiest I've ever felt in my mind and in my body and the way that I feel so just reflecting yeah I love that

38:03Grace Beverley: and I think that there are like with any big life shift you naturally have those mindset shifts as well and I think that what we don't necessarily do online that well is give people the grace to change their minds in the same way that we actually all should in real life like as in like I've changed my mind about loads of massive things over time just naturally as I've realized that something that didn't serve me when I was 22 does now or whatever it might be whatever the reasoning is and I think that we're not necessarily good at supporting that online yeah when we we encourage growth but at the same time we're like but you said this in 2016 exactly exactly and I think that it's, it's all about kind of, I don't know, it's, it's important that you as a person whilst remaining online and therefore having a certain area of your life that still needs to, I guess, appeal or be likable to the people who follow you at the same time, like you've got to be able to live your own life and come to your own conclusions and normalize just changing your mind.

39:10Grace Beverley: Yeah. Yeah. I think that's what I've luckily naturally kind of had. And I care what people think in a sense of, I don't want to offend anyone or make anyone sad. But at the end of the day, I feel like I'm pretty, you get what you get and you don't get upset. It's like, if you like me, follow me. If you don't, that's fine. Yeah. Yeah. And I think I don't crave to be loved by everyone. It's like, what's that saying? It's like, as beautiful as a peach is, there's always someone who hates a peach it's the same online like not everyone's gonna love you and that's okay yeah and the same in real life I mean I always talk about context collapse and the fact that it doesn't translate online which is you know the fact that if you I think I actually I'm literally getting so extreme deja vu I think I literally mentioned it in our last podcast so I'm a broken record I haven't learned anything in three years um but the fact that like if you told a story to like your mum and your boyfriend and your friends and your son like you would tell that story in different ways yeah like because you tweak it slightly for the way that that person needs to receive it to like whether it's their understanding whether it's whether they'd find it funny like all of these things we naturally do that every day and yet when you're doing that online you have zero ability to context collapse for people and therefore it is often received not in the way that it was intended because I as a consumer I hate when people make disclaimers because I'm like fast forward like yeah yeah exactly like I don't care as a creator you're like I just want to like cover my bases yeah like I know I'm really blessed to xyz it's hard because some people go stop with the disclaimers and other people say you haven't acknowledged you know yeah it's you can't make everyone happy and you've had really incredible career longevity like that I don't think has necessarily been reflected across the whole creator landscape what do you think that creators I guess maybe get wrong when thinking about longevity?

41:02Honestly, I feel like I'm a really bad consumer in this scene. I feel like I don't follow any vloggers. Like I feel like I consume completely different content to what I create. But I guess I've said this from day one, it's be authentic. And I know we hear it all the time, but truly, if you are in this, if you want to build a personal brand, you have to be real. Because if you're in this for the long haul like me and I'm sitting here 14 years later, a facade can only be held up for so long. And I think people, if you are consistent and you are authentic and you're transparent and you're raw and honest, people will maybe not fall in love with you, but people will connect with you.

41:45And I think that has got me through because I've never felt like I had to keep up a facade or a certain way of talking or way of being. And like you said, in terms of evolving and changing, knowing that not everyone's going to support that but just being really open and raw and honest and saying this is what I used to do and this is how I'm going to be now

42:09my perfect day as sand salt water and friends but my moderate to severe plaque psoriasis can take me out of the moment now I'm all in with clearer skin thanks to sky rizzy rizzen kizum at rizza a prescription only 150 milligram injection for adults who are candidates for systemic or phototherapy. With SkyRizzy, most people saw 90 % clearer skin and many were even 100 % plaque-free at four months. SkyRizzy is just four doses a year after two starter doses. Don't use if allergic to SkyRizzy. Serious allergic reactions, increased infections, or lower ability to fight them may occur. Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis.

42:46Tell your doctor about any flu-like symptoms or vaccines. Thanks to SkyRizzy, there's nothing on my skin, and that means everything.

42:56Ask your doctor about SkyRizzy, the number one dermatologist prescribed biologic in psoriasis. Visit SkyRizzy.com or call 1-866-SKY-Rizzy to learn more.

43:10Grace Beverley: And do you think you trust your instincts more now than you did earlier in your career? I think I'm just a lot more mature. And I think back in the day, I wouldn't consider repercussions or consequences. And I didn't have little people looking up at me, my kids. And so I would share everything. I didn't care. I was like, I would share everything about myself, my medical history, everything going on. So I think I'm just a lot more conscious now that my actions don't just affect me, but they affect my children, their schooling, their friends, their teachers. I'm so aware that a lot of people in our inner circle are watching us.

43:51Grace Beverley: so I'm not calculated I'm conscious and how do you decide I guess now what's worth saying yes to when you're protecting a lot more of your like you've got your boundaries in place you've got I just say no to everything I really do like I don't say yes I really do I I yeah I think so I shared that this is every year I have a different word which is my intention of the year last year it was survive I don't want to freak you out I that's fine I have no mine will fully honestly mine I'm under no illusion that this is going to be easy in fact I've probably freaked myself out too far the other way I have a word for you and I have my cookbook to give you and I wrote in it you're gonna bloom I feel like I feel like that's your word you're and you're gonna be in your bloom era oh I like that you're a bloom I feel like I'm like survive not thrive No, you are gloom.

44:44No gloom. Okay. No, my word for last year was survive. So my word for this year is bold, which is saying yes to more things. I'm here. You're like open to opportunity. Send the contracts my way. Yeah. Yeah. No, truly. Truly, if anyone wants to work with me, Sarah at Sarah's age.com. No, I think because I have, I am very intentional with my presence, right? So I have given so much of my time and my emotion and everything to my kids and I will continue to do that. But I'm so proud of how intentional I've been in their baby years and their formative years and they're still in them that I rebuke any guilt that I feel this year for saying yes to potential opportunities for me.

45:32So I think, yeah, this is my year of saying yes to things, but also having a balance. Like I love taking my boys to school, but how cool that I get to come and do this and then I get to go do pickup. So just finding the balance, but saying yes to more things because it really does fill me up and I love it.

45:48Grace Beverley: Yeah, no, I really love that. And I think that part of what you just said there in terms of like being unashamed of taking opportunities for yourself. I think that the creator space is probably the only place that we demonize taking opportunities that further your career or make you more money because that's the setup of everyone else's career. Like that is naturally what you like if you started a business. I think I think part of it is that it's the only space in which women outperform. Like as in it's the only space in which women are earning a lot more. I think that that is also why we look down on the word influencer because as in it is seen as.

46:26Don't you say that it's a word?

46:27Grace Beverley: When we started, it wasn't even a word. But like as in it's seen as a bad word, I think. I don't think it would be seen as the same bad word if it was a male dominated industry. So I think that that's part of it. I also think that like there's this it's there's a discrepancy between like broadcast so like tv or actually any other publication media yeah media in general where you are a consumer of it you maybe don't pay for it but you receive it and therefore you know that there are like ads on the platform so that you can receive it free or whatever it might be or there are a few ads and you pay a little bit or like whatever it might be there's a disconnect between that and knowing it's going to big corporations and seeing the individual it's going to in the creator space and I think that that's it was such a new industry that it felt quite hard to compute that even if you are watching something for free week after week after week that that person might be able to earn from it because it is perceived as such an enjoyable and lucky job which I do think it is like I do think it is an incredible that there's a reason so many people aspire to have that job is but it's because and I've been doing it for so long yeah and like you get to live your life and yeah other people watch it yeah and you get paid for it and that is like a massive massive privilege I think that that disconnect is sometimes uncomfortable um and I think that even if someone's not paying for the viewing and they decide to do that there's a there's a an unease about that feeling that it could be so enjoyable when so many people don't get to enjoy their work which is I totally understand that feeling I think that you can both understand that feeling whilst also being unapologetic about what you've built and what works for you in this phase of your life particularly because whether something's free or whether you have a Patreon for someone, for example, and decide to stop contributing or you decide to stop buying their products or whatever it might be, that's also well within your right.

48:45Grace Beverley: Like it's both sides. And as long as you're able to do that, then there's no problem with it either way. But I think that there's definitely a conscious effort that particularly if you're a people pleaser or want to make sure you're as likable as possible to as many people as possible, which is pretty natural with this job, that you actually have to consciously be like, and I am going to earn from it. and I really like seeing people be pretty unapologetic about their ads and be like, oh, I'm filming an ad today and I'm doing this specifically for an ad today. Like, that's literally how things stay free for everyone else.

49:17Yeah. A lot of my energy right now is in building my own products. Yeah. I'm very, very, very conscious and decisive with collaborations. And my collaborations, they're long-lasting ones for, like, five years. Yeah. Like, KiwiCo, it's, like, a subscription brand that's, like, for kids. once upon which is like family photo albums I say no to I would say 99.999 % of collaborations I say no to unless I'm genuinely using the product they slide into my emails I'm like oh I'm actually using you yeah so that's fine but in terms of my time I'd rather build and I'm working on my second cookbook I love 560 and the pregnancy workout guide so it's a lot of my time if I'm not with my kids I like building yeah and I just want to do collaborations yeah yeah it doesn't like fill

50:02Grace Beverley: my soul. And I think also as well, like you're well within your right to make any decision that feels best for your personal brand and your brand overall. And like what, in the same way. The longevity of your brand. And I think, I guess going back to your previous question of what are potentially influencers doing wrong or how can they ensure that they have longevity in this career? Don't get too excited by the short wins, like the collaborations, because that is not going to build your brand. If anything, it might detract because people hate to see sponsored stuff. And it's different if you are always using that product and then they slide into your DMs and you create a collaboration, fine.

50:41But I think having that long-term game plan of if you are building this personal brand, it's how are you going to, if this is going to be your job, how are you monetizing it? Are you building a product? Are you known for fashion? Are you coming up with a fashion line? I think, and assessing your audience, what does your audience want to see from you what are the what questions are they asking you and leaning into that yeah yeah and just not getting wooed or excited by the short wins of a collaboration and money for a sponsored post because you're not going to have longevity for 14 years on YouTube Instagram TikTok yeah

51:14Grace Beverley: no I think I think that's very solid advice and before we end I have some nosy routine questions for you yes it's like a hot fire yeah love it I like a good routine and I know you like a good routine. I love a good routine. And I know Australia likes a good morning routine. What does a good working week look like for you now? It depends. Am I building? Am I maintaining? If I'm building, I'm like, give me all the days to work. Not really. Monday is my mum day because, so Foxy's in school. So, which is sad, but my afternoons are always free. Afternoons, I'm mother. Monday are my non-negotiable mummy days.

51:50I have Malachi and Harlow. And then Tuesday, I try to work on Tuesday. I either get my babysitter or my mom to mind Harlow. And I usually just work from home. I'm working on my second cookbook, like I said, and I am obsessed with my cookbooks. It's my favorite project to work on. So I take my time because I love it. Like that's one thing I'm not impulsive with. I've been working on it for like two years. I love it. Working on that. And then Wednesdays is again a mom day, but I just have Harlow. So he's my last baby and I just like savor him he's delicious and then Thursday I try to have another work day I'll try to film content that day but a lot of the content I'm filming at the moment it's very spontaneous so I don't really have to schedule a film yeah and then again Friday is my mom day but if I'm building different like I'll have meetings and I'm really happy with my babysitter now so I'm not breastfeeding so I can kind of juggle a little bit more and I'm in my year of bold I'm very up and down no week is the same some and I think that's how I juggle it's like wherever I am I'm just very intentional to be present and if it's a heavy work week then I just want a heavy mum week the next week I just

53:08Grace Beverley: try to like it's a balancing act for me yeah no I think I think that's a good way of looking at it and what are your non-negotiable habits that kind of keep your life from feeling chaotic I try to move. I try to move every day. I don't, but I try to because I sleep so much better. I love movement. I love my running era at the moment. I love 560. I love my Pilates, but I just sleep so much better. I have eggs every day, non-negotiable. Like I don't feel complete if I don't have eggs. I love eggs. I love hyro in my water, my electrolytes. I'm addicted now. I like never drink normal water. So I love a little flavored water.

53:47And then my other non-negotiable would be have a deep chat with one of my kids because they're at such a fun age where they're so innocent and the world is like bright colors to them. So just picking one of them, ideally two of the ones that can talk back. Yeah, sure. And having like a deep chat with them and asking them a philosophical question that isn't too deep to them, but they just respond in such a cool, creative way. That's something I do every day. Oh, I really love that.

54:16Grace Beverley: if someone spent a week living in your life what do you think would surprise them the most they would probably be exhausted because i feel like i'm a bit of an energizer bunny and i think just naturally i think i'm when my sister hangs out with me my sister will come to my house and she's like my shadow she will say that she's like you don't need to hang with me i just want to be around you i am like a lone wolf i can be in my own presence and my kids are my people and I like to work even I don't even go to my own studio we have our studio with our team I don't work there I work at home I just work really well alone I get a lot done yeah and my sister when she shadows me and just hangs out in the house she's like are you okay I'm probably undiagnosed ADHD but I just don't stop and I multitask everything I think it's a bit of a mummy woman thing um but everything I'm batching and multitasking doing one thing at a time feels lazy to me yeah and just slow just slow yeah like yeah and like does it's not the best thing because the other day i was supposed to buy five products and i accidentally put a pack of 25 times in my cart so sometimes snakes because we're moving at peace but i get a lockdown yeah yeah i think someone would say slow down but i probably never will yeah no and i also think that there's like Like, you don't need to, I think that there's an obsession online with optimizing every part of yourself, which I understand.

55:47I don't always think it needs to be the case when actually certain parts of you, yeah, they might not be the same as the other people, but they are your edge.

55:57Grace Beverley: Like, it just doesn't need to be different. I just run up here and, like, I'm okay with that. Like I do have diagnosed ADHD and when they tried to put me on medication, I went on medication for a day and I was like, hey, so you just took away all the things I'm good at. Totally. So like won't be taking that ever again. But like, thank you for trying. Yeah. I was like, I actually, that was a really good exercise of me being like, actually, perfect. I know exactly what I don't want to get rid of. Some of the most, I would say the most creative people I know have ADHD. The power. And people are like, why don't you get diagnosed?

56:31I'm like why would I do that I'm fine I'm living for this I'm living for the hype of myself yeah

56:40Grace Beverley: and what would you say the simplest places for someone to start if they are just completely out of whack with that like exercise routine and they've they're not in a place like you are where they're loving it they're just yeah not necessarily loving it we've all been in the funk first of all I would say do 560 because it's accessible it's five rules it's built for everyone and it's simple Trying to move your body every single day. Doesn't have to be a workout, but just moving your body, even if it's literally just like walking up the stairs of your house and like putting away laundry. Or gardening.

57:09Gardening is a workout, let me tell you. Drinking more water, eating whole foods, getting off social media if you can get a brick or like set yourself some rules and optimizing and prioritizing your sleep. Sleep. Sleep is everything. I've learned that the hard way from my babies, but good sleep is a good life.

57:28Grace Beverley: Yeah. No, totally agree. will be something I struggle with. You're going to love it. Honestly, being a mother is the happiest I've ever been and it's like the undeniable love. You're building a tribe. You're building best friends. You're building your best friend, particularly with a daughter. Yeah. No, I'm very excited. Do they know what to do? Oh, yeah, yeah. Big reel. Telling a girl. Gender reveal. I'm so glad you let me do that. That's how I planned it. You're going to love it. You're going to love it. And before we end, they're going to ask you what I ask everyone, which is what is the best piece of advice that you've ever been given?

58:04I think it was one that me and my friend came up with last week. We were, my friend also is working and juggling motherhood. And we were saying how we are battling the mum guilt and how we're juggling it all. And we kind of came up with this phrase together and it was being intentional with your presence because I feel like I've only really, I haven't even mastered this, but I'm getting better at this now. When I was working, when I had just Fox and Mally, I was constantly feeling like a bad mom. I'd be in this meeting and thinking, I'm such a bad mom. They're at home with their babysitter. I'm missing out on all these moments with them.

58:39They're probably laughing and I would just not be here. I wouldn't be present. But then I'd be at home with the boys thinking, oh my gosh, I should be doing this campaign. My website sucks. This conversion of this ad is really bad. I rebuke all of that now because you only get to live life in the present and it's so fleeting so it's being as intentional and present as I can right now because I want to juggle it all and I want to work and I want to be a really good mum and to be able to enjoy both elements it's being present in those moments and rebuking the guilt

59:12Grace Beverley: and just getting rid of the guilt I love that yeah I think that's a really good one and I shall be taking that for myself in all walks of life you're gonna be the best thank you got this thank Remember, it's your year of bloom. Okay. I'm going to get you an access to bloom. I feel it. Okay. If you say so. You're going to love it. I'm going to do it. You're doing amazing, sweetie. Oh, well, thank you so much. You've been incredible. And thank you so much for coming back. I love you.

59:52my perfect day as sand salt water and friends but my moderate to severe plaque psoriasis can take me out of the moment now i'm all in with clearer skin thanks to sky rizzy risen kizum at RZA, a prescription-only 150 milligram injection for adults who are candidates for systemic or phototherapy. With SkyRizzy, most people saw 90 % clearer skin and many were even 100 % plaque-free at four months. SkyRizzy is just four doses a year after two starter doses. Don't use if allergic to SkyRizzy. Serious allergic reactions, increased infections, or lower ability to fight them may occur. Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis.

1:00:29Tell your doctor about any flu-like symptoms or vaccines. Thanks to SkyRizzy, there's nothing on my skin, and that means everything.

1:00:39Ask your doctor about SkyRizzy, the number one dermatologist prescribed biologic in psoriasis. Visit SkyRizzy.com or call 1-866-SKYRizzy to learn more.

1:00:55Grace Beverley: You do it all, so why not get all the electrolytes? Hydrate better than water with new Gatorade Lower Sugar. Now with no artificial flavors, sweeteners or colors, and 75 % less sugar than regular Gatorade. New to the fridge, all the Gatorade electrolytes you love. Gatorade Lower Sugar. Is it in you? Now available nationwide.