Catch up friends: Why has the substance fallen out of our friendships?

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1:43What is up? I'm Grace Beverley and welcome back to Working Hard, the podcast shape guidebook on how to improve your own life and achieve what you actually dreamed of doing. Because life's too short for boring podcasts and bad advice.

1:57hello hello we are back with another bonus episode i have been so excited about doing this one because i have wanted to talk about this for so long it's another chat about an article that really got me thinking but this week it's on friendships and this is a conversation that i've wanted to have for a long time and actually has been like a very active conversation in my life and in my head for the past few months but i guess a quick disclaimer before we get started this episode is not going to be just like perfectly packaged advice. I wanted to have more of an honest and probably a little bit messy conversation around friendship, what good friendship actually is, what role friendship plays in an adult life where we're all running around doing a million things at once and trying to like monetize all of our hobbies.

2:36And we're having like a quote unquote standard job can't get us the type of lifestyle we want to have and all of these different things that take away from our time and take away from our flexibility, despite the fact that we've, you know, replaced a lot of that with the ability to instant message people all the time all of this anyway the headline of the article that really got me thinking is the rise of the catch-up friend and how the substance fell out of our friendships it's by anna mayerowitz and it's about how adulthood and technology have changed our friendships and how we run them but i also heard this being discussed on shameless and i loved the conversation it was one of those conversations that i really wanted to actually get involved in because i feel like we all have different opinions about this and i feel like it will strike different nerves for all of us because there was something about this that made me a little bit offended there was something about this that made me a little bit well think a little bit that I was failing at another thing in life and that sounds so dramatic it felt like something else that we need to get right that we're not getting right at the moment and how we're having to optimize every single area of our lives to try and make it the best it can possibly be when actually realistically we cannot keep up all different sides of our lives at all times but actually I think it probably hit a nerve because it was lots of things that I was talking about and thinking about at the time and it was really representative of how I feel about friendships and how I feel about how some of my friendships have grown over time and how much more I would love from some of them whilst also knowing that I am carrying around a lot of mental load from work and trying to be a good partner and trying to be a good dog mum she says with zero dependence and trying to you know run a business and all of these different things and I don't know I want to get into it because I feel like if you haven't talked about this topic it is one that a lot of us could do with having the conversation but let me read you Anya's introduction to the article because I feel like it gives a really great introduction into her argument so she says as adulthood has slowly unfurled itself my social life has become more about discussing what's happening in our respective lives rather than actually actively taking part in them in place of attending festivals yoga classes and exhibitions I now send drawn out voice notes about how my week has been instead of booking last minute weekends away i hurry to a quick coffee to hear about my pal's latest family holiday i'm officially in my catch-up friend era one that leaves little room for heartful authentic impulsive discussion we miss out on sharing our idiosyncrasies off-the-cuff observations and crucially our true feelings so essentially what she's talking about is that as we grow up our friendships morph from hours spent making dance videos like watching movies or just like hanging out talking about anything you know in the school holidays where you would just hang out with someone and there was nothing really to catch up on because you've probably seen that person every day that week but you just hung out and you were able to have conversation and talk about more than just what's happened in the last five days and I feel like a lot of friendships have moved more to an agenda-like list of everything that's happened in the past six months meaning that you leave with more like a summary of your friend's whereabouts but you lack the emotional connection that comes from having shared experiences and participating in each other's lives and I don't know I feel like this is something I've thought about a lot I do think one of my biggest sadnesses in life is the fact that I value female friendships so highly and I think no doubt that some of my female friendships have been like the loves of my life um and have been involved in so many different areas of my life and I love their companionship so much and all of that and at the same time we grow up and we move out with partners or move in on our own and we just we start catching up rather than truly making memories together and I feel like on the one hand yes it's something that we then feel like we're constantly you know it's another thing we need to aim to do right that we're not always doing right I don't think there's no role for a catch-up friend but I do think it's really sad when you think about how we've all moved to just making sure like oh have I seen them recently or have I updated them or have they updated me?

6:26Have I asked how their day's been? Rather than truly being able to keep these amazing relationships that a lot of us were lucky enough to build through school or uni in just that like dead time where you were able to just bond and it wasn't about anything and it wasn't necessarily about like what's happened today. It was just having conversation and getting to know each other through just being around each other. Anyway, this is something I've been thinking about all year but I would actually say probably more than all year for a while I think I remember literally like crying to a TikTok what's new um because it was conversations I think between two sisters or two flatmates from the different rooms being like can I come into your room borrow this like have you taken this or like can I borrow this tonight or like whatever it might be or like do you want to come chill in here and it was like this back and forth and I remember bursting into tears on a flight and being like oh my god we're never gonna get that back and I find that so sad and it makes sense that we move in the way we do with life and with partners and all of that but it does make me sad for female friendships that like and not just female friendships but I think for me it's really female friendships when we look at like the role they play in our lives and the role so many of these women have had in shaping us and shaping who we are and then the fact that that kind of takes secondary precedence to everything else in our lives and we just get rid of all of that dead time we spend with each other because you only spend dead time with a partner or when you're home alone or whatever it might be and I do think it's definitely exacerbated when you are in a relationship and I think it's probably one of those things that I just started to get used to as part of like realizing that I was actually now with someone that I wanted to start a family with and settle down with at some point and that comes with being like oh my god I'm never going to live with my friends again or whatever it might be but anyway it has just been something I've been thinking about a lot and I think I've thought about it especially after the three months I spent in LA because what I really found in LA is that I was obviously away from all of my friends.

8:18So usually I would see friends a few times a week and I would be WhatsAppping them back and forth and kind of catching up and knowing what's going on with their life and all of this. And what I often have, because I'm really bad at keeping up with WhatsApp, like I'm not generally back and forth on WhatsApp during the work day and then it gets to the end of the day and then the last thing I want to do is go and do essentially like a whole other email block and just respond to everyone. So I'll often have like be sitting on the sofa on a Sunday and I'll go through and I'll just be catching up with them.

8:42Actually, no, it won't even be catching up. I'll just be like responding to all of the messages in my WhatsApp and you don't truly like find out more about that person. You kind of just update people back and forth. And this started to not it didn't start to really get to me. I think it just I started thinking about the fact that I actually there were so many friends I wasn't having true good conversation with despite the fact that I really valued their friendships. and because I also wasn't seeing people in LA I wasn't seeing my friends from home I started calling a few more people on morning walks when I was going to and from the gym or whatever it might be even like when I was cooking or whatever and I never would have done that in London because I think when I'm cooking at the end of a work day for example if that ever happens I want that time to rest my mind and I would think do you know what I need this time to myself whereas actually I probably would have spent some of that time then on my phone and you don't really get it to yourself and of course getting time to yourself is incredibly important but I think what I'm saying is that I would often end up doing these whatsapp back and forth kind of bulletins to each other because it had the perception of reduced mental load for me whereas in reality it's only reduced mental load because it's losing that relationship if that makes sense anyway that's how I was feeling but I started calling more people on my walks because I wasn't actually seeing them and didn't want three months to go by without properly catching up.

10:04And despite being thousands of miles further away from them, I felt so much more invested in their lives. And, you know, rather than just hearing what had happened in the last day or the last week or an argument that they'd had with their boyfriend or something that was going on with their boss and probably choosing one or two of these things to be able to cover in the time we caught up, because I was calling them regularly, we were solving problems together. We were speaking about the mundane. We were kind of having opinion based conversations and I felt like I was suddenly having so much better conversation with these people I've loved for so long where so much of life had got in the way in between and then some of these friends you know you're only catching up with once a month so you're really only having this one to one like back and forth of how are you how are you how are you and I don't know it really really made me think that I've always thought that phone calls were more effort and I don't really think this is phone calls versus texting I think this is conversation versus updates but it really made me realize that having good conversation and having enough conversation rather than just updating each other is so much better for your friendship and your enjoyment of that friendship and your mental health in general it's like such an important thing for us as human beings to be connected to other people and to have opinions that we share with other people and I think we live such splintered lives because we're all in different careers and types of jobs and stages of life that it's not that easy to continuously have good conversation back and forth because we're all so busy and I think this like the phone calls were essentially enabling me to have more than just catching up with friends despite not actually technically making memories with them but I think I don't know I do think this feeds back into this and how we've moved to a generation of instant messaging and on top of that we are so connected that we keep more friendships but we're actually not necessarily all doing things with those friendships like we're not necessarily all making memories with those friendships a lot of the time we are just seeing someone exchanging updates and then leaving and then doing that again in a month's time but it meant that when I discovered this article because I was actually walking in LA when I was listening to the shameless episode about it I felt like it really clicked for me because I realized what I was experiencing in LA was the difference really between a catch-up friendship and a deeper more meaningful one not because I was actually making memories with people because of course I wasn't I was just on the phone with them but because I had enough good conversation with them through doing things that well I guess through regular enough communication and also through avoiding just a back and forth of how are you how are you how are you on whatsapp that i was able to build these more meaningful relationships in that time just thanks to that small decision of giving them a call even when i probably felt like well i gave myself a little more grace then when it came to mental load and i think i was a little bit more flexible because i was like yeah calling this person's going to add on to my mental load at the end of the work day but actually i want to speak to this person otherwise i won't have any social relationships out here.

13:07I had a few, but not many. So I feel like, I don't know, that really, really highlighted it for me. And it was something I was thinking of more and more and more. But when I was listening to the Shameless episode, I do think one thing they brought up that was really important was the fact that it felt like another thing that we needed to aim towards. And we're really good at shaming ourselves and shaming a whole generation at not being good at X, Y, Z. And I do think that like part of this comes into the fact that we all need to work more than we ever did to be able to have you know the standard 2.5 kids and to be able to buy a home and all of these things and we also have this 24-hour news cycle punctuated with this like 24-hour 100 miles per hour TikTok feed or Instagram feed or whatever that means that our mental load is taken up by so many other things that adding on seeing friends more feels like first an impossible task but also something that doesn't necessarily fit into our lives and I do think that is really important and I do think on top of that that some of the initial reactions to this article were very much like my friendships aren't like that I do a lot more things I do xyz and I think that's important and I think you know whether your friendships are more catch-up or not catch-up or whatever it might be but I also think there's another tangent to this which is I do think that being a catch-up friend to some people and having catch-up friends is also completely okay I think that some people in your life are destined to be catch-up friends and you can't have you know 30 friends that you see regularly for meaningful catch-ups and I do think that because of social media we've stayed in touch with so many more people than we otherwise would I think you know before social media you probably would have stayed in touch with a circle of like 20 feels like a lot but like max a few two three four really good friends and then a few peripherals and maybe you do stuff outside of that whatever it might be but you're not going to be considering yourself a close friend to 30 people and I think that a really important thing is knowing who are your catch-up friends and who are you a catch-up friend to and being fine with that like being okay with that level of friendship and knowing that that's who you are with that friend I feel like there are some people in my life who are catch-up friends and I love them and I love every time I see them but realistically if I'm going to put more effort into making sure I'm making memories with more people I'd rather be able to do that really well with two to five people and five even feels like a lot in that way but maybe including some groups in there rather than just feeling like I can be a catch-up friend to 10 12 15 people I don't know I feel like that's important to say because I don't think we should demonize this catch-up friend and I think that the issue is that lots of us want more from our friendships and want to have more meaningful connections but currently are striving to be a catch-up friend to 30 people rather than like a really meaningful friend to two three people and having the periphery and I do think that's really important because I think when you get to the bottom of that you can get to the bottom of what is good for you and what you want out of your friendships and on this in Ania's article she references a conversation she had with Dr Bob Waldinger a professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who says it's important to acknowledge that catching up isn't necessarily inauthentic and less good he argues that these sorts of friendships play an important role in our lives and our well-being stopping us from feeling completely cut off when we don't have the time to enjoy deeper interactions with friends which I feel like is exactly that it's so important and sometimes in your life when we're striving for this work-life balance sometimes you're only going to be able to see your closest to friends and maybe you're only actually not even going to be able to see them you're only going to be able to catch up via text with them and I feel like that's absolutely fine I feel like the issue is if we're all feeling unfulfilled by certain friendships because we're spending so much time just catching up that's where we can make a difference and that's where we can start to turn that around and I feel like if your deepest and closest friendships are becoming catch-up friendships and that's what you're seeing especially as people as I said move in with partners or move out on their own or whatever it might be then you want to do something about it and that's what I saw slowly happening to me a few I'd actually say a few years ago now because I've got some solutions now which have worked really well but that's where you can really step in and make a change So it's never that a catch-up friend is bad.

17:18It's that if you want more meaningful relationships and you only have catch-up friends because you're trying to spread that friendship across so many people with only finite amount of time, then I think it's important that we individually work out how to improve.

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18:23With their 30-day money-back guarantee, what have you got to lose? Head to bluehost.com to start now. Did you know adults 60 plus lose more than$60 billion each year to financial exploitation? Greenlight's new Family Shield plan empowers you to monitor your accounts for suspicious activity, protect yourself with up to$1 million identity theft coverage, and reassure loved ones that you're safe with location sharing and place alerts. Get peace of mind today at greenlight.com slash protect. That's greenlight.com slash protect. Approved that. But all of this really got me thinking and I wanted to put in some actionable, I don't know, some solutions that I put together for myself in terms of how I want to work on this and avoid close acquaintances who I really don't want to be catch up friends becoming catch up friends just because I'm so busy and I put these things in place and I'm going to share them because that's why we're here so my first suggestion is one that I've actually put into place for it's probably the past year and a half and it wasn't even my idea originally I actually tacked on to someone else's idea and basically it was regular recurring slot for your friendship so I have a weekly girls and gays night on a Monday and the rule is well it happens at the same house every time actually but you could obviously rotate if that doesn't work for your friend group but it works pretty well for ours and then if there's something that we need to change it for we can change it for that but the rule is basically turn up whatever has happened that day there's no agenda there's no just code there's no expectations and it's kind of just spending time like we would after school as kids I guess like there's nothing to celebrate there's nothing that we come dressed in sometimes there will be and we'll say like oh let's make sure to celebrate your birthday this Monday or like the funding round or a promotion or whatever it might be but really it's just a recurring slot that we all have in our diaries and I just know not to book things on Mondays and that has made single-handedly the biggest difference to my quality of friendships that I have had as an adult and I think it could look like so many different things like it could be a recurring class that you will go to on a Saturday it could be a brunch it could be a walk like whatever it might be but I would have told you before that point I'm not going to do anything on Monday.

20:33Monday is sacred. I feel like it's just the start of the week. I would never leave the house after work on a Monday and actually just going to my friend's house and sitting and chatting shit for a few hours. Sometimes I don't even stay later than nine so it's not like it's kind of like well into the night. I'm usually in pajamas with wet hair. It's very very very chilled but it gives you time and space to be able to I feel like if we didn't do that even with the exact same friendship group we would see each other far less and have far less good conversation and I feel like it's so important because you also get so much depth beyond just what's happening as we said the catch-up stuff but also I think as lots of people move into relationships and I'm definitely in the phase in my life where like lots of people are moving into longer-term relationships the second that relationship feels settled it's almost that that's never discussed again and I actually think that that isn't necessarily the right thing like I think we should be discussing things that we're not so happy within our relationships or things that we would love to change or things that worry us for the future or any of these things and it's almost that like that relationship becomes so long-standing that you never talk about it anymore and these types of opportunities really give you the time to talk about that type of thing even if there's nothing like big wrong but I do really think that having something like this weekly is just such a good way to stop catch-up friendships because you literally don't have enough to catch up on if you're doing it every week and it means that you can move on to bigger things and sometimes someone will bring something and just be like do you know what I really really want to talk about this today sounds very like forced it's not at all um and we will and we'll dive into it and that's been so so helpful I think one of my favorite things about this as well is that there is zero pressure to because especially because it's Monday and we're all very aware of like what's going on in each other's lives there's zero pressure to drink like sometimes we have a bottle of wine sometimes we don't sometimes we have some beers and sit outside sometimes we don't I very rarely drink on them just because I don't really drink at the beginning of the week and I feel like especially in the UK so many friendships revolve around drinking going to the pub all of that which is like trust me I'm the first person to say that I love nothing more than a sunny beer garden but at the same time I think it sometimes brings an obstacle to friendships because the stakes go up for that particular social occasion and then it's it makes it more of a thing and it makes it more that it's going to throw off your week and actually the barrier to entry to this like monday night for us is so low in that you don't need to look nice you don't need to travel far you don't need to come with anything sometimes we get takeout sometimes someone cooks whatever it might be it is just chilled and I feel like removing the necessity for alcohol as well I don't know it makes a big difference for me as someone who if I have a few drinks at the beginning of the week it will affect my sleep at least that night and then I don't know I just can't keep to the schedule that I usually would but I do feel like if you don't have the proximity to be able to do this or if you have kids or a job that you travel with even as much as scheduling like a weekly face time with one person like the person who was or is your best friend could be such a game changer and yes it might feel a bit perfunctory at first but it's basically just a case of carving out time for the people that you care about most and ensuring that that's never just like an as and when you need it and instead is about building that relationship over time but finally I've also been thinking about my friends that I see less often because we are just less close or we're in different stages of life or they live far away and we're not able to see each other all the time and I found that even if there is the inevitable catching up to be done, doing it between like reps in a Pilates class, if you're allowed to talk in yours, or going on a walk or going to an art class or pottery painting, something that is a memory making activity together, I also think gives you that shared experience to go beyond the everyday and really improve your friendship and also to do more things than just catching up.

24:17Because I think that sometimes I could have an amazing conversation with someone, but if we are just catching up, we are just catching up. And I always have that thing in conversation where I want to make sure that they've spoken about their life enough and then they're asking me questions and I want to make sure that I've caught up enough about them and all of that. And so then you spend two and a half hours just back and forth in this way. And actually, that's great. But realistically, once you've done that once in a month, you can probably give little updates and actually make memories together in another way.

24:45So I do think scheduling things around activities too are particularly good. And one thing I've been doing when I've been super busy recently, like especially around the store opening, I only really saw friends when I was going to Pilates classes. And I was basically just saying like, look, I'm getting my workouts in every day and I need that to kind of stay sane. So why don't you come to a workout class with me? One time my friend did look at me mid rep and like a library class and she did say hanging out with you comes at such a cost. But other than that, it went pretty well. And I do think that sometimes, you know, we're trying to keep up all of these different things in life.

25:15If you can, it's almost like habit stacking, like you're scheduling the thing that you want to do with the thing that you already do, I think can be particularly good for catching up as well. but I feel like I've rambled on about this for long enough it's something that I've really wanted to talk about for a long time and I would love to hear your opinions on it and anything as well that you're doing to genuinely improve your friendships and your quality of friendships especially in this life stage where everyone's moving into their kind of separate lives and little families and all of that but I've got this week's quote to live by and it is from Marissa G.

25:45Franco's book Platonic how the science of attachment can help you make and keep friends I think it's a good thing to keep in mind when we're talking about fostering friendships so the quote is don't take friendship for granted don't be passive letting friendship fizzle because you forgot to reach out don't dip when friends need you don't wait for calamity to rock you into realizing friendship is priceless and grow friendship on your list make a good friend a part of who you are because a deep and true core that needs to belong lies within us all but that is all we have time for today i hope you enjoyed the conversation and the article and everything i have so much to say on the topic evidently which is why we're still here but i would love to hear your opinions too so please do let me know on the instagram it's at working hard pod and we'll have a bit of a discussion there about friendships and how they grow and how we keep them good whilst also making sure that we're not striving to reach a million and one things at once because we all are and that is exhausting too but thank you so much for listening and i will see you on monday for a very exciting episode

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