Ep. 107 “I thought I was dead”: How To Rebuild Your Life With Louise Thompson

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1:40What is up and welcome to Working Hard Hardly Working. Today I am joined by Louise Thompson, a woman with an incredible story of resilience and strength. You might know Louise as a TV personality or an online star focused on wellness and fitness. But over the last three years, her life was really turned upside down by a series of extremely traumatic events. She has been incredibly open about this and open about the intense trauma that she faced following life-threatening complications during childbirth. Her experience is a very raw and honest account of the challenges she endured from battling PTSD to navigating the complexities of recovery, both mentally and physically.

2:17and also in things like how it affects your wider life, how it affects your relationship with your partner, with your child, all of these different things. And I've always said how this podcast isn't just about work in the sense of a career, but a wider definition, which encompasses the work we all put in every day to make our lives not just a professional success, but a personal success as well. And I truly believe that healing and recovery is some of the hardest work that you can ever do in life. And Louise was so open about this and about her whole journey in a way that I think is so honourable and the effect of that on her wider life.

3:03And I have no doubt that anyone who has been through anything traumatic or anything similar to this or just big life changes that have huge impacts on the rest of kind of what you thought your life would look like or your everyday will be able to take away a lot from this and get a huge amount of value from her story. So I'm extremely thankful to Louise for sharing her story with us. This conversation is deeply moving and a testament to the power of vulnerability and perseverance. It also contains potentially triggering topics including PTSD, childbirth, postnatal trauma and suicide. So if you'd rather not hear about these topics even through Louise's lens of how she's come out the other side and how she's built her life from this point then you might want to give this episode a mess.

3:55Thank you so much for joining me. Thanks for having me. This is a real privilege. I'm very excited. We have wanted to get this episode in for so long, like so long. So I have a lot to talk about with you and I'm very, very excited to get into the conversation. But first of all, I'm going to ask you what I ask everyone, which is at the moment, do you feel like you are more working hard or hardly working? Such a good question. Working hard or hardly working? I think I'm working hard. Yeah, I've really turned a corner. I'm like I'm pushing you know there's like the push and the pulls I'm not like I'm going for it phase like back to school season and actually because I've had such a an odd couple of years where I really had to slow down I think in the last six months I've kind of spent like a year auditing everything love playing catch up and then now over the last six months I'm like ready to go again and how have you audited everything because that's something I'm a really big fan of like I love a life audit.

4:56I know you do. I follow a lot of the stuff that you do. And you're so good at it. To be honest, it's just been an internal process of pulling everything that I've ever done and ever achieved together into one spreadsheet. And I realized actually that for so long, I was working fully independently doing everything myself. I mean, I have worked with Ryan, my partner, and we'll kind of go through like the weird transition of the various parts of, you know, just my career, I suppose, from start to finish, because I've never really had a conventional job. But one of, I think the biggest things that I've learned over the last couple of years is the fact that I've been doing too much on my own and I haven't had a lot of control over what I've been doing.

5:36There hasn't been a lot of structure. So I've just really been like accounting for everything, you know, going through every invoice, putting, you know, various different assets into one place and, you know, even like really simple things. And I'm sure you've got like a whole team of people doing this. But just putting like my social media stats into a document so that I can see if I'm, you know, increasing or decreasing really little things. Yeah. And that feels really good. And then also, you know, working with other people, like outsourcing a lot of stuff. So kind of collaborating with people or just, you know, employing people, collaborating sounds so fancy, just employing people to help me with things like a legal person, a business manager, long overdue.

6:22Yeah, no, and it makes a lot of sense. And I obviously have been through a huge amount over the past few years. And I can imagine that even just setting aside some time and just, you know, these really not that important, but good to do things. It feels, I always think quite cleansing. It's like a cupboard clear out. Yes, it's a spring clean, but an autumnal clean, but actually it's a post-trauma cleanse for me. And really it's worked out as more of a full life kind of cleanse. And what I realized is that, you know, I often when I talk about kind of my trauma, especially in the early days, I would refer to old Louise versus new Louise.

7:01So there was the old me and then there was, you know, the new me and the new me wasn't in a great spot for a really long time. What I'm trying to say is I wanted to get back to the old me. I wanted to get back to the person I was before because I was comfortable. And what I've actually done is I've managed to get back the good parts of that old person, but I've also gained so much. And I think that I never would have, I never would have done all of the things that I'm doing now if I hadn't gone through a really terrible time, because I was just in this hamster wheel. So the world actually forced me to slow down.

7:33I was never I'm undiagnosed ADHD. I think I do suffer with, you know, I self label as neurodiverse and I'm not very good with change. So I was just, yeah, in this cycle, like go, go, go, go, go, go, go. Don't need anyone else around me. Just do my thing. and actually now I've had some real time to reflect on everything. I've realised there's like a lot more that I could be doing and also, you know, you've got to slow down in order to speed up. I want to start at the very beginning. I know you speak in your book about how you were very lucky to face quite little adversity early on in life. Could you tell me what life early Louise looked like and what her ambitions were as well.

8:21Yeah, I was such a goody two shoes. Honestly, teachers pet, like angel until I reached actually the teenage years. I had a really lovely childhood and actually looking back at parts of the book where I kind of speak quite explicitly about my relationship with my parents and things, you know, there were a few tough times. My parents got divorced when I was 11. That was really tricky. I never really knew the answer as to why. I felt as though I didn't, you know, I was brought up in an environment where children weren't really spoken to by adults. I think that that was like a thing that was passed down through the generations.

8:52You know, my parents, they were very, you know, strict, serious. My dad always said to me that his parents just wouldn't speak to him and his siblings. And he was lucky that he had siblings. So at least he was one of three. So yeah, it was on the whole like a really joyful childhood. And I had, you know, my brother a couple of years younger than me. And we grew up in Notting Hill. So very privileged. encouraged my dad you know both of my parents came from modest backgrounds I think they would still be considered as middle class but they they weren't handed everything on a plate and yeah my dad actually left school when he was 15 I think he got expelled for like driving a lorry through the school and he was just really naughty I know he crashed into the school and school was not for him that's taken me by the most of the time

9:45okay yeah so he basically left and set up his own thing and did really well and he you know he worked really hard and he was in the property industry and it was a lot easier to make money in that industry back then and we we then grew up in one of these cool houses in notting hill and it was it was great yeah and i had a great time until i probably got to like 14 15 16 and then i started drinking a lot and going out on the weekends I think the moment that we had freedom I I really took advantage of it and I abused it and I think because I'd always been so controlled you know putting so much pressure on myself to perform well in everything that I do whether that is work or sport or you know social stuff I yeah the moment that I discovered alcohol that was was pretty like a bad time for me because it it gave me it was the only thing that provided an off switch for my super overactive, like hyper-stimulated brain.

10:42I know you went to university after school. Around that point, what were your kind of aspirations? Like what did you see as success? This is really awful to admit, but I really saw success as following a trend of what other people were doing. So I thought, you know, typically you would think, okay, going to Oxford or Cambridge, that would be a huge success. I mean, I was quickly told not to be for those universities, which, yeah, and you went to Oxford, didn't you? But instead, it was everybody wanted to go to Bristol or Edinburgh. So I thought, OK, well, I'll just put them on my UCAS form and leads and through.

11:20And I was a real sheep. So talk to me then about joining Wade and Chelsea, because you've talked about how much of your life at this point was really you kind of, you know, as you said, like floating from one thing to the next. And it was almost like the path of least resistance. I'm really interested in your decision to join Made in Chelsea at that point. It was very early on. It must have been. I remember when I was watching Made in Chelsea at school, you were on it. And I was obsessed. It's such a good show. It was to watch but not be in. I can imagine. How did that even happen? So basically, I was studying up at Edinburgh and a couple of people I knew had already featured in a pilot.

12:01And it was originally going to be called Chelsea Girls. I think that was the working title. And there was a girl called Amber in it, Rosie, who I was at school with. I think Spencer was in the pilot and we already had had a relationship. So when I was on my gap year, I met him and we started dating. And then when I went to uni, that kind of didn't work for obvious reasons. and I was happily you know cracking on with my life trying to study and kind of get by at university I think it's a struggle for a lot of people anyway especially if you've come from an environment where you're so everything is so controlled at boarding school you know it's so regimented you've got such a tight structure around you and then to have the freedom at university is be like what am I doing like I have to get a library card and I have to learn how to look after myself so yeah I had a couple of years there and I think it was in my second or third year they they the producers basically called me and they said would you would you come and join us on this show we're talking you know we're starting the first season I said no because I think Towie had come out at that point that was the first that was sort of the pioneer of reality tv and it was actually the same exec producer who created that that then went on to create made in Chelsea as well and and it didn't have the best reputation I loved watching it but I didn't think I never saw myself being in a show like that and I'd even been quite snobby I thought this is a waste of an education you know I come from here why would I then go and do there so it was an immediate no and I kept saying no and they kept calling and they just ground me down I think what it actually took was for me to go through quite an unpleasant breakup up at university to think I've got not I haven't got that much to lose anymore I'm willing to take a bit of a risk.

13:42I need to change direction. It was brutal spending so much time in the same small, relatively small city as my ex. And I was actually quite keen to spend a bit more time in London. So they twisted my arm and I said, okay, fine, I'll try it. And I said, I'll try it once. And it was really hard. I remember getting the train down. I had to be really incognito. They were like, don't tell anyone, which was the worst thing because I'm a really honest person. I hate the art of like deceit and being sneaky and they said okay well we're going to get everyone's natural reaction so no one else on the existing cast knows that you're going to be joining and as someone that hates the element of surprise I hate being surprised I also it's not in my nature to surprise somebody else because I know how much I hate it myself I had to hang out in this bar around the corner this lady was sort of telling me what to say and it was literally like surprise and people and it wasn't it wasn't a great reaction people weren't like yay people like what the hell are you doing here and I guess the rest was history from that moment I think it was Francis's art gallery party yeah I kind of got I kind of got into it and it didn't come naturally to me because I'm I'm not unless back then when I was drinking I would say I'm not an actual entertainer you know I'm not somebody that likes to command a room full of people like I don't mind you know I enjoy an intimate conversation and like I love I'm making myself out to be you know so it's a kind of loner or total introvert but I I just I'm I don't love all of the attention being on me so it was hard and and I was surrounded by people that it came a lot more naturally to you know Jamie I'd actually known for years and he he did he studied drama at Leeds like I'd seen him in plays up there you know other people were very good at acting and kind of good at bringing it and I wasn't and incidentally I don't think Rosie really was either we were the two girls in a whole friendship group at school that never got on stage like we were never in the plays maybe it was a tree looking back now I feel quite positively about it like it feels nostalgic enough time has passed I actually enjoy watching it now I didn't watch it for ages after I left because I didn't want to miss it if it was good and if it was bad then I thought well I don't need to waste my time with watching it but I you know I really enjoy reality tv I think it's a wonderful thing it was really hard to go through your early 20s being criticized that heavily it was around this exact same time that twitter just blew up so that was challenging because people unlike you know if you're watching what things that are fully scripted eastenders you might have a really strong opinion about someone they've just killed someone they've just set a house on fire you know they've cheated this was sort of bridged the gap between that because it had to be bring the drama from that so there were story producers who were had worked on eastenders before you know they had like a lot of experience in conjuring up really creative stories but it was also then it was real at the same time so going through an uncomfortable sad heartbreaking breakup or finding out awful news was so humiliating when you had a camera in your face as well I can imagine and then when people are going online and calling you all sorts of things it was really savage actually and I think people have become a lot more respectful since then I think like I'm quite grateful that there's been a bit of a shift that people now you know people people will label a keyboard warrior a keyboard warrior like it's it's not socially acceptable to start speaking to people like that anymore in that same capacity because it was devastating yeah yeah for sure no no absolutely I can't imagine the impact of that And obviously, during that time, you went on to kind of enter the wellness space and start, you know, start a few businesses.

17:44You had Live Like Louise, Turtle and Pocket Sport. What was your experience of, I guess, deciding to start these businesses within the space, kind of off the back of what you were already doing at that time? And so I suppose before I created those businesses, I'd been doing a lot of work in the kind of social media space unintentionally, really. It just became quite a lucrative career. Then I suppose a large part of it was actually down to meeting Ryan. My partner had gone from dating people that indulged in quite unhealthy habits and behaviors. And, you know, I'd adopted a lot of them. and when I met Ryan he taught me a lot a lot like he was very very different to anyone that I'd spent a lot of time with he taught me to love myself to care a little bit less about what other people thought to not feel as though you always have to fit in and also I really should thank him for changing my relationship with alcohol because he's not a he's really not a big drinker and he actually was quite upfront with me about how he felt about me when I would drink and he really didn't like it and I'm glad that he had the courage to to do that because a lot of people would just be like yeah you know I think if you it just showed that he cared he was like I'm not gonna let Louise treat herself like this this is really destructive you know I was actually drinking a lot I mean there were times when I was drinking like you know 72 hours in a row I'd end up in some pretty bad places and the knock-on effect of that was horrendous really whether it was losing stuff, physical things, losing jobs.

19:21I mean, there were jobs that I genuinely couldn't turn up to and also relationships as well. I really pushed people away and even, you know, family members. It was not nice. Even my brother would say that I wasn't a particularly nice person to be around when I was, when I was drunk. I was either your best friend or if I knew you really well. So if you were my boyfriend or a family member, I could be quite mean, I think. And And yeah, so I really, I made this big transition when I met Ryan and he obviously was a personal trainer and we met. It was so cliche that he wasn't actually my personal trainer, but I was doing a triathlon, which I didn't end up doing at the end, but he was sort of connected to the lady that was doing the PR.

20:02So we met that way. And as I got into it, you know, I noticed that the rewards from looking after myself, I ended up doing the women's health cover, which was incredible. I just felt so good in myself and actually my whole relationship with the job I was doing which was the tv stuff completely changed I just felt as though I was back in the driving seat of my life no one could get in my ear and tell me what to do or say anymore I could be me and that felt really empowering and off the back of that I met somebody actually a lovely Welsh guy who Ryan knew from Cardiff and it was one of those amazing almost like serendipitous moments he just came to our house.

20:37I can't remember why. But that day we ended up having an all day conversation about what we wanted to change in the fitness space. And that really looked like just offering, making everything that I'd done accessible to the masses, small changes, you know, like the compound effect of like little lifestyle differences. But I think a lot of people just, I think the good thing actually about the business was that people thought I was a bit more approachable and accessible than than some other people because I hadn't always been you know I don't know I don't want this to land wrong but I was never the kind of perfect I wasn't the princess on me in Chelsea I wasn't like the tall long limmy one with the incredible hair and like the infinite beauty and and that's you know I'm I'm very happy and very fortunate with the way that I am but I don't think I ever had that character so I think people saw me as someone that had a few issues that I was quite honest about and I'd gone from here to here and they were like okay well that's something there's something quite appealing in that so how do I get a piece of that pie so yeah we just wanted to educate and initially it was just through fitness programs and then as you'll know the industry just changed so quickly and I think with obviously lockdown throughout COVID we pivoted and everything became online and we built a really loyal community of people and it was really fun and it was one of the things that just got us through as well as them and and with with the pocket sport so the activewear brand that was something actually I started at uni as a hobby like really with another guy that I studied with there so it was small tiny tiny baby brand originally it was denim and then it became t-shirts we realized it was such a hard space to crack and incredibly competitive and then yeah we made kind of other more merchy things to accommodate or to go alongside while I was on tv and then when I went through the big fitness transformation we decided it made sense to make sense to make something that I could enjoy and wear myself and so both grew quite a lot like as I was on this sort of like health rise.

22:45And I did, I lived in the stuff. And it was, I look back and I've looked back quite a lot over the last couple of years and thought, why did I love lockdown so much? It was a really positive time for me. And I know that it was a really tough time for some other people. So I'm mindful when I say that. I don't want to come across as selfish, but it was a really exciting, lucrative time for me and for my family and with my brother living next door and, you know, me and my partner living together and actually my business partner lives on the other side of us. So we're literally like the mafia all in a line.

23:25We really got things going and then everything changed when I fell pregnant and then when I got really sick. and before we come to touch on that because I want to really you know give give some space and time to really you know go into that part of your of your life and your journey with your businesses you obviously built incredible businesses and has been so great to see their kind of growth and your growth as an entrepreneur I know that you recently made the decision to liquidate one of your businesses. Could you talk me through that decision? And yeah, I can imagine that was pretty heartbreaking.

24:09I don't know the story, but I can imagine that was really tough. Could you tell me a little bit about that? Of course. It's a really recent thing that I'm going through. And, you know, you will know better than most how hard it is to build up a business from scratch. we never had any external investment so we did really really well as a small team to keep an activewear business going with so many competitors out there you know at times there were two of us three of us four of us maximum I think there were six of us ever and unfortunately we so we had a period of rapid growth during lockdown and I think we probably didn't reinvest in the company in the way that we should.

24:56And I think we should have invested in people and better people and hiring up and hiring, you know, people with more experience than us, because I don't have a business background. And actually, my business partner doesn't either. So we were it was very much a hobby, hobby brand and business. And we learned a lot along the way. But then when Yeah, when I got really, really unwell, the business basically got put on pause. And it made me realize actually that it was never sustainable to have any business that relied so solely on me as the face of it especially if we wanted to exit in three five whenever however many years I can't always be the person that's there flaunting my body smiling in a mirror and pushing a product because it doesn't serve me well it doesn't serve my family well and you know everything changes when you become a parent anyway and your relationship with your body changes and I've been through so many physical changes as it is.

25:53And it just didn't suit me anymore. So I think on a lot of reflection, I was, you know, and I'll come on to all of the trauma stuff, but I was so incredibly unwell for a year postpartum that I couldn't even think about any business. You know, I struggled to turn a light on or feed myself. But then as I started to get better, I thought, okay, I'm being pulled in some different directions here and things that are actually a lot more meaningful to me. And I know that my time is limited. So does it make sense to continue with this kind of fashion brand anymore? The opportunity cost of doing it, it was taking me away from things that I'd rather be doing.

26:30It's been really heartbreaking. As I mentioned before, I'm not good with change. They always say, you know, my life coach, I still work with her again now. And actually, even my accountant said, Louise, this business, it's not good for you. You're putting money in, someone else is taking it out you need to let go it does make me feel quite sad because I haven't really like accepted it properly yet and I wasn't ready and I'm glad that I waited because mentally I'm doing so much better now like I'm stronger so I want to make the decision from a place of clarity in my head if I'd done it any sooner it would have had trauma brain and they always say don't make any major life decisions the first couple of years after a traumatic incident and get a divorce if you can you know if you can avoid it obviously there are circumstances where you have to you know don't move house don't cut all your hair off I did that as well and I nearly broke off I mean there are a lot of things that we just missed out on um but and I guess you know don't make any massive changes with the company and I think deep down I just knew that I couldn't even though it would have been easier just to cut ties with everything when I was in the trenches but I just kind of kept everything sizzling along and then we got to a point where we were like is this worth the struggle anymore it's not and we were having a lot of repetitive conversations and without without like extra like financing we just didn't have the potential the product was great and and the community was great and I really wanted to bring out a stoma legging which we'd started working on which would have obviously been a major passion project for me and i've got a cool you know whatsapp group of girls who've all got stomas who had the same operation at the same hospital and we were kind of like you know getting all creative about it together and it felt it felt nice and i thought this could be the resurgence but we just didn't have everything else that we needed in terms of the infrastructure to like really get it going so I just think someone else will do it so much better than me and I'm okay with that and I could be the face of it and that's okay.

28:35And I think it takes a huge amount of strength to walk away from something that's no longer serving you and I think that you know you can definitely rest easy knowing that you know as you said you did not rush you didn't rush you made sure that it was something that you were really comfortable with and felt you know like was the right decision and ultimately that's all you can do like you can't predict how everything's going to turn up and I guess what what what advice would you give to someone that's currently dealing with something that doesn't really serve them but they think they might need to get let go of but they'd struggle with the change all of that I think the the thing that I have which is an advantage is that I always have at the back of my mind the memory of everything almost disappearing so I really know how short life is.

29:27If something isn't serving you, you just have to let go of it because you never know what's around the corner. And I think if you can find confidence within yourself and strength within yourself to know that there are, there's always, you know, without sounding arrogant, I feel as though there will always be something that I can do and something that I can offer because I'm hardworking and because I like working. So I'm not worried about it I think you just have to value yourself in your time like time is everything and if you're losing sleep over something you're lying in bed at night and you're worried I've you know I've had that recently with some tv opportunities that have come my way and I've actually said no to them because I was lying in bed and I was actually dreaming and having no one knows about them and I thought if this is happening I just I can't commit to that yeah and I've always been someone that's terrible at saying no and terrible at shutting things down so I suppose you've just got to trust in the fact that if I can do it like you can do it too yeah no well I think that's great advice and I think that it really is you know it's one of the toughest things to walk away from something that you really don't want to walk away from but you need to but at the same time I believe so strongly that you cannot welcome anything into your life that is meant for you whilst holding on to things that are no longer meant for you because they're taking up time and space that would be taking up you know that you would be offered that opportunity and I think that's really important to like you know sometimes you do just need to take the leap that's not saying it's not easy you've obviously been through a lot over the past few years and I can imagine that having had this as something that's just happened is obviously really you know it doesn't help and it's horrible to you know it's horrible to go through and to really feel like that's a necessary part of your journey to kind of get to the next step.

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32:50I'd like to, you know, talk about your kind of journey in November 2021. I know you say that you had a day that was kind of the best and worst day of your life. Could you talk me through whatever you're comfortable talking about in terms of what happened? Essentially, I went into my childbirth a really healthy person. I'd always, you know, I'd been really healthy. Like I'd made this whole career out of being super healthy. I'd never had any experience in a hospital. very few experiences even at my GP or taking any medication you know I think I've probably taken paracetamol a handful of times in my entire life I did have an underlying condition which was my inflammatory bowel disease but it was very very low maintenance it was easy to to control I didn't feel great towards the end of my pregnancy and I was anxious I'd been involved in a house fire I was living at my mum's because we were doing a renovation which is very typical a lot of people seem to redo their homes when they're pregnant which is crazy but then probably works out for the best long term so it was it was a bit of a weird time for me anyway like coming out of that kind of lockdown haze and then living at my mum's house which was a bit weird because I haven't lived with my parents since I was 11 because I went to boarding school and I started to not feel great about the idea of the birth which was then amplified by the fact that we were involved in this very scary house fire so to sort of summarize well you know because I can talk too much so I'll try and explain it fairly succinctly but and also I'm sorry if I'm a bit like jolty with things because sometimes when you do retrace your steps with trauma your brain just like occasionally would kind of just pause or shut down for a bit and you get a little bit muddled but yeah one night the fire alarm went off and you know when you think you just assume because you've heard loads of fire alarms fake firearms fire alarm practices and we're sure you have them in this building you just assume that it's it's a it's a fake and then within five seconds i was like no no no there's there's a fire because the smoke was filling the whole house so intensely to the point where i couldn't see my hand which was is petrifying and now i understand the significance of the smoke when everyone says you die from inhaling the smoke versus the actual fire the flames themselves and and you all you know I thought and you know even when you watch things on the news you're so far removed from them even having a conversation with a friend you're still so far removed until something actually happens to you you just don't know how you're going to react but also you just you can't understand the level of fear in that moment and it's such a specific fear when you're engulfed in smoke because you can't see anything and even though you think that you're someone that's very fit, healthy, you know, able-bodied, you know, someone that could jump out of a window and be absolutely fine.

35:47I had moments where I really, really believed that I was going to die. We ran out, everyone managed to get out safely, and I was in a state of shock. So it really was not the best thing, kind of the best start. And that was, I think I was only about a month out from giving birth at that point. So I was really heavy. Ron and I had been sleeping in separate rooms because I was so uncomfortable and and actually oddly I think we had actually had an argument so it was really strange again that this fire had kind of brought us back together it was just it was really it was a little significant that it happened on the same day but yeah so we all got outside sat you know luckily we had a car to sit in obviously all of the neighbors came out I was in my pants and a t-shirt and you don't care about that kind of thing when you feel like you've just escaped a near-death experience.

36:42But I was just screaming on the street and one of my dogs went missing in the house and Ryan actually managed to find him and get him back. But it was very dangerous him going back in. And then we had the whole encounter with the fire brigade and that whole thing. And that was, I guess, my first real experience of spending a bit of time in the hospital. so we went in and they checked the baby and they had to check for carbon monoxide poisoning and you know all of the routine checks and ryan's hair actually was covered is it i mean he actually had he had white hair at the time like really blonde sort of m &m style hair and it had gone completely gray it was it was crazy that we'd been coated almost immediately so that was was devastating and then following that leaving the hospital not knowing where to go is a really weird place to be mentally and none of us were okay like me my mom and ryan were in shock luckily the dogs could go around the corner to my business partner and we we then we were like well you know who do we call like we look and smell and we smelt for days we could not get rid of the smell it was embedded in us and in our hair and our you know in our skin so we had to stay in a hotel for a couple of weeks and then we actually moved into my dad's flat in London he spent some time up in Yorkshire and and I was sort of on high alert I don't think I'd properly processed the fire because I was then so I was anticipating the birth of my child and not knowing where I was going to be and whether I had all the stuff for him whether I had a room for him I mean it's a hugely in anyone's life like the the month before you're giving birth to your first child I can imagine in the best of circumstances you're thinking am I ready for this like what do I need to get for this you know it's very much we literally have a psychological nesting like pattern that we go into but to have that happen at that time I just can't even imagine how terrifying and unsettling that would have been.

38:44Incredibly unsettling. And we didn't get to do any of that nesting thing because our house was nowhere near ready to be finished. And we did feel like we didn't have a home. And I did also worry that I was going to come into labor prematurely from the shock. So when I, you know, immediately after the fire, my whole body was convulsing for a really long time and I couldn't calm down. And I did think, what's the damage going to be from all of that cortisol and all of that stress on the baby what's that going to look like is it going to cause me to go into an early labor and and there were you know and it was the little things like when we then did move into this flat how far away is that from the hospital are we then going to have to give birth in a different hospital are we gonna I mean I just felt completely powerless so I sent an email to the hospital and I'd already in every appointment that I'd had with the midwife leading up to that point.

39:41I'd already suggested I really wanted to have a C-section because looking at the stats of all of my friends that had had babies following the lockdown period, nine out of 10 of them had had C-sections. I'd say 50 % of those were emergency and 50 were planned. And I'm a data person. And obviously that's a small selection of people. And that doesn't reflect the whole nation. But I looked at that and I thought, I would like to have some control over my birth. I'm also a very small person. I have, I've got a tiny body. I've got like snake hips and I, and my partner's very big and all of the scans had shown very different things when it came to Leo's size, his head size was big.

40:27And, and I just thought there's no way that I'm going going to get a baby out of me naturally. So I panicked after the virus in an email to the hospital. And I said, these are all of the reasons why I would really like to be taken seriously for a C-section. We need to make this happen. How can we make it happen? Can you give me a date? What are the next steps? Because as somebody that's never given birth before, you only know what you've been told. It's not really common for people, for friends to tell friends about things to do with birth, because I think largely actually people don't want to put people off i think people don't want to scare people i don't know it's a tricky conversation to have with people sometimes i'd find it easier to talk about this in a podcast even than speaking to one of my close friends my best friend gave birth to me two months afterwards that was one of the reasons why i was very careful that i didn't share my story even on social media for a few months until a few months after it had happened but yeah so i sent this i sent this email and i never got a response and there are things that still pop up now occasionally you know I'll have a moment where I think let me go and revisit that email like I need to go and see that email again like why did no one ever apply to that so I remember what I was I was basically saying before about not feeling like you know where to get the answers so in this email if no one's going to respond to me there who do I call I don't call I'm not calling 999 or 111 where do I go to get the to get the answer to the where do I get the c-section from and you get when you are pregnant you get a booklet and there are sort of a lot of box ticking things in there and they kind of fill it fill out some information and you do have like your diabetes test and a couple of things but I think there needs to be more of a comprehensive manual that goes into detail about like birthing options and would you like to go and look around the hospital and if you have this question who's your point of contact so there was no continuity of care I mean very infrequently did I see the same person twice so I didn't build up a relationship with anyone and I have spoken to other people one of my good friends gave birth up in Scotland and I think this health care system up there is very different when it comes to the maternity offering she had an amazing experience and she was with the same person the whole way through so then you have that rapport and you can go you can really you know you feel as though they're on your side they're on your team I just I felt like I had no one on my team.

42:43And even I had to bring in Ryan to a couple of the appointments to try and advocate for me. And even he found it really hard. And, you know, as I've already explained about Ryan, he's quite good at not caring too much about what people think. So we didn't get the outcome that we wanted. And I went into labor on my due date. I think it's quite common for people to be turned away from the hospital because they're not quite ready. Then we did end up going back to the hospital and it was on a weekend and there was skeleton staffing. and essentially we were put in a room and had very very little support and things just escalated and all of the things that you can imagine that could go wrong went wrong I developed sepsis quite early on they were treating me for infections they did break my waters there was myconium in the waters I started feeling really unwell and I think that's a sign of infection when you're I was hallucinating I was really really like in a total state of confusion the pain went from here to hear almost immediately because Leo was back to back.

43:41No one had told me. I didn't know what it meant to be back to back. No one had ever said, here are the potential positions. The baby could be this way, this way, this way, this way. I'd heard of the word breach before. I sound so ill-informed, but I'm someone that's fairly assertive and astute and still going into this, not knowing where my baby even was inside me is awful that they wouldn't tell you that. so if they're back to back it can be really uncomfortable because their spine can grind against your spine so it was it was horrendous and they didn't there's a protocol where if you request an epidural they need to give it to you I think within a 90 minute window is is reasonable because obviously pain management is so important when you're in a hospital environment and if you're really in significant amount of pain and it took many many hours for them to be able to get that in then there was a shift change the following morning and by that point it had been a night of hell and then it became an emergency because there was a consultant who saw that he wasn't going to come out of me and she you know she tried to manually turn him inside me and nothing was working so we went into theater and the thing about a c-section you know my understanding of it was that it should be a 20 minute 30 minute operation and so it's it's it's still a major abdominal surgery they're having to go through many layers of your skin of your tummy but it's it it looked controlled and speaking to everybody that i knew who had had one you know i had these parameters in my head my operation ended up being over three hours lying there awake watching myself bleeding to death losing in that operation three and a half liters of blood many scares throughout that operation a lot of shouting urgency people coming they couldn't stem the bleeding no one communicating at all what was going on and you know my partner was sat next to me and I just honestly kept turning to him asking him whether I was still alive because I really really believed that I was dead.

45:51I couldn't understand how I could still be alive. I felt like I was living in a nightmare. And I suppose just to put it into, there's so much grace. I mean, I then, I was moved onto a trolley and I was put into a side room, which is not considered the proper practice. So I should have been in a high dependency unit because I lost a lot of blood. so I lost three and a half liters in that operation I think I probably have three and a half liters in my body I then go on I've had five operations in the last two and a half years and I've lost over 12 liters of blood and I thought that a liter was closer to a pint but it was only before I came into this podcast today I thought you know in my book I talk in a lot of detail about kind of what happened to me and I have in other podcasts and I'm I you know I like I want to offer like some some different material as well and I thought like how can I summarize for for someone that asks me what have you been through I thought okay how do I just summarize this crazy story because I there's so there is so much to say five operations 12 liters of blood one large Evian bottle is one and a half liters of blood so I've lost eight large Evian bottles.

47:11How is that even feasible? So I was sent home prematurely after a few days in the hospital in excruciating pain. I'd had a CT scan, which I had to really push for. I had to advocate really hard for it. And it showed that there was potential signs of active arterial bleeding, which basically means internal bleeding. But I only figured that out much, much, much later. So they sent me home and two days later I had an enormous hemorrhage at home at night in our house, which we'd scrambled to get to a place where it was like somewhat livable. So we did have running water and hot water. And in that moment, I can't tell you what went on in my head.

47:58it did not make sense to me how I was still alive because from nowhere blood was just pouring out of me like like like nothing I've ever seen in my entire life before not even in a movie not even when someone gets shot not when someone gets their arm taken off it was everywhere so the fear that basically consumed my head I mean the roller coaster of screaming to Ryan who was in a different room to then get the ambulance to come they luckily came in a couple of minutes and they got me to hospital very quickly I think my brain at one point just shut down I was on my own thinking that I was going to die on my own and I think that's one of the worst parts of it all I mean there are a few things that have I that I think have made all of my PTSD basically boils down to that moment because that before I was put to sleep I was begging to be put to sleep because I was it was so painful in my head that I was going to die every second that I was I was shouting someone help me help me help me help me put me to sleep like I want to die I want to die I want to die just turn it off like I needed someone to turn lights off because I didn't want to consciously live this experience because I don't think that it's I think everything in the way that we're designed is to not have to experience that to not get that close to death to then actually survive and to keep witnessing it is just it was awful and knowing that I was never what in my head I really believed that I was never going to see any of my family members again that I was never going to get to know my baby and that I just didn't think I was ever going to wake up again was was really terrifying and I did I woke up I actually woke up and I woke up in intensive care and I had no idea what was going on and I had loads of tubes down my throat and I didn't recognize anyone because my family weren't there so I just woke up in a room that I didn't and I didn't know where I was I didn't know what had happened.

50:11I think there's the problem with an emergency. There's no reassurance and preparation. If I've had other surgeries that have been less of an emergency, to be able to look in someone's face and for them to say, this is what we're going to do, to see something in them, like a little bit of human nature, heart, soul, and to find some trust that they're going to do their best to keep you alive. That is so important going into an operation to have those moments to ask a few questions, to have the moments to get to know that they're going to put something in you that's going to send you to sleep and that you might wake up at this time.

50:49And then that's what the recovery might look like to have the expectations. But it's just the pure like, bam, it's the it's it's just the unknown unknown. It's the abyss. So it was it was just petrifying. And how long did it take for you to be able to go home from then so I went home about a month after I gave birth to my son and then you know I had a moment of like pure euphoria where I like collapsed at home and I was like I'm just so grateful to be back home and I'm so happy thank goodness and then I had a week where I was basically in bed and I was just being looked after and I thought I actually really thought I was going to be okay.

51:30And then and then my brain just went. And I started really suffering with extreme debilitating anxiety, which wasn't just, oh, I'm scared. I couldn't rationalize it. It wasn't like I'd have a scary thought come in. It wasn't, oh, I'm nervous because I've got to do something hard at work, or I've got to have a tricky conversation with someone or someone doesn't like me or I'm worried or I'm sad it was perpetual fear in my brain to the point where I was in such a state of survival that I couldn't my brain started doing something which my psychiatrist explained to me as being analyzing of thoughts and I would say it's the closest thing to getting to madness because you're basically every single obviously we have tens of thousands of thoughts that go through our head every day if you're a normal person but every thought that came in through my head I was analyzing because I my my body my brain were obviously so scared of what the thought might be it didn't want to let in any of the horrible thoughts so I was I was just analyzing every single thing that came into my head that it didn't allow any you know anything anything normal like to to pass by you know it was I was just living in in a horrible horrible place yeah I can imagine that was terrifying and I can imagine the just the there's so much change in that whole situation anyway take away everything you went through having a child especially your first child you know moving house at the same time all of this there's just there's a lot of change there's a lot of moving parts and I can imagine you know anyone would get overwhelmed in that in kind of the best of situations obviously to combine that with what you went through the hormonal changes on top of that everything to kind of come to terms with the fact that you've also just had a baby and you're going through this huge change in your relationship as well and all of these different things how was your relationship with leo during this time i didn't have a relationship with leo because i really didn't and i say that now comfortably because I know that I have a great relationship with my son like I love Leo and I've obviously been I was with him most of this morning and and that's an enormous relief and hopefully gives hope to anyone listening but it was it was non-existent at the beginning he would come in Ryan would bring him in to visit in the hospital in his little car seat and I I didn't I really didn't care that he was there because all I could think about was myself I I didn't I if he was just thing.

54:09I mean, and then even when we were at home, I was quite scared of him. I think that the idea of having any responsibility except for just looking after myself was petrifying and my body just didn't have the space for it at all. Like I couldn't even, like, you know, Ryan had to fully look after me and Leo with the help of my family and then some other people that had to step in as well. To the point where I couldn't make a phone call. I mean, he had to literally speak on my behalf and have communicate for me and so I couldn't at times I couldn't even communicate I felt like I couldn't talk properly so I I couldn't even really talk to my son I couldn't talk to anybody so he was there and occasionally I would have moments where I'd kind of almost snap out of this like dissociated state because I was dissociated a lot early on I I mean, it was almost like my body had just created like an external person.

55:07I was living in someone else's body and I'd forgotten everything I knew about my former life. Like it was just done, like dead, like old Louise just died. And I was just living in the shell, like hiding in it, just hibernating. And yeah, and Leo was there and it was hard because I was so exhausted. so I needed to sleep to recover physically and mentally I think with all of you know the way my brain was working was just so tiring so it was really hard because he was waking us up all night and I think and Ryan would agree with me on this I think because of the circumstances he didn't have the love that he needed as a newborn because all a newborn really needs is love skin on skin affection and their basic needs being met and there was no there wasn't much contact at all from anyone because anyone that came around really as well was was nurturing me largely because I suppose my family had already had an existing relationship with me they didn't have a relationship with Leo yet so the love probably was all being directed to like the fear that they were going to lose someone that they had known for 34 years or 32 years but we did we did our best and you know I fought through and I would I would just fake it and I would lie next to him sometimes and I would I would do the I would try and get into a bit of a routine but it was it was I remember and I think I mentioned this in the book that when the crisis team came because I was on suicide watch they would ask me how much time I'd spent with my son that day.

56:45And I do remember saying three minutes and then four minutes and five minutes. And they honestly would be like, that's amazing. Well done. That's incredible. And looking back now, I mean, I get goosebumps because I just can't imagine that it's me. It's so weird because it's not who I am as a person, you know, and I would be an amazing mother if I had the choice to have been an amazing mother. I just did the best that I could. That was it. And I just I clung on to whatever hope I could find thinking, okay, one day I might be okay again. And luckily, you know, Leo's come out of this really unscathed, which is really amazing.

57:21And what about your relationship with Ryan? Also horrendous. We didn't have a relationship for a long time. He would get into bed with me sometimes at night and I would get angry because I would get a fright because I would get really scared. I genuinely would feel I felt like there was a stranger that was getting into bed with me, which, you know, it sounds dramatic. It's these are just real, real feelings. We didn't really talk much. I think he hated me. I think he resented me because for everything, even though, you know, now with a logical head on his shoulders, he knows that it wasn't none of this was my fault.

57:59But he was dealing with his own version of PTSD. And that is something that I've only been able to accept in the last year because I didn't really care about how he was feeling throughout this whole thing we were just both like looking inwards all the time and not communicating at all and I didn't think that we were going to get through it and he had to go away at one point and I think he's opened up about that now which is why I don't mind saying it because it's really for him to kind of talk more about his experience but he he was really unhappy so he had to take himself away because he was finding he was just really like destructive and and that was probably you know nine months after the birth things just built up I suppose because the whole recovery is waves and different chapters and like he'll have to be okay when I'm absolutely not okay then the moment that I'm slightly okay again he can let his guard down and he can be in in a bad state and even more recently with my recent stoma surgery he was I was in a really really bad spot and he you know looked after my son and he was pulling on a brave face smiling I'll get everything done I'm going to organize everything with your family the hospital visits all of it and then the moment that I came home he crashed and was like and got himself into a quite a bad state of depression actually for a couple of months and I felt so lucky because I'd had life so I just felt so good that I was still I'd had another shot at life and that I'd you know that I was still here so I had that perspective of I've been down here now I'm just I'm okay like I'm gonna live so thank goodness whereas he felt like the unluckiest person in the world.

59:49So our perspectives on everything that has happened are very different. How have you managed to build from that point? Now, I guess people hate this answer. Or I know I hate I hate when I hear people say time, because you don't feel like you have time when you're in a moment like that. I had to actually avoid him for a chunk until I rebuilt my own strength with like a Bax accredited incredible therapist who I trusted with my life and also a coach and I had to protect myself until I felt strong enough to be able to go in and try and resolve the issues we had within the relationship because you can't do it you can't have important conversations when you're when you're feeling so weak because you'll be triggered by the smallest thing if he'd said something like a tiny bit damning or like that I took a tiny bit personally then I would completely spiral and and you know potentially then end up feeling suicidal again so we really had to just distance work on ourselves and then come back together and now we are we're good actually like we're actually good and I I can't imagine that there would be much that would that we wouldn't be able to work through now that we've been through this and we're actually we're going to be doing a podcast together which feels really really nice so that we can encourage people to have uncomfortable conversations in a partnership brian's not typically a like a really good talker like he doesn't love communicating and i think that comes from his family like they're all very good they're all like very stoic and i respect them for that like i love i love his family but he's he's really learning to open to open up more and actually it's paying off so he wants other people to too yeah it's good doesn't it of course and i think that you know i'm sure there's so much that you two having been through this together like i can't imagine how tough that would have been in all different ways but kind of really thinking about how a relationship even managed to come out the other side feels like a huge testament to the the strength of it but i can also imagine that you have so much to share and so much that people going through all sorts of different things could really benefit from.

1:02:09Obviously, you spoke about how recently as well, you had another operation, you had a colectomy. When you went into that operation, did you know that there was a chance of you coming out with a stoma bag? Or was that a complete surprise? I did I did know and I actually was begging for it by that point so I've had this condition the inflammatory bowel disease but specifically ulcerative colitis so it's you either have ulcerative colitis or Crohn's you can sort of have a combination of both but I've had it for six years and as I mentioned before it was always fairly mild and then I think it was triggered you know it can get worse during pregnancy or it can completely go away so if it gets bad it's called the flare I was absolutely fine and then about three months after giving birth to Leo mine started getting really really horrendous and I think you know stress is obviously a huge contributor and with post-traumatic stress disorder it got really really bad so I did have a hospital stay when my son was probably seven months old and I managed to get into remission so I was treated with some medication then in the hospital and I remember them coming in and so there's sort of the gastros who do more of the medical intervention and then there's the surgical team and they operate i remember them the nurses saying they're gonna introduce you to this the surgical team and i remember thinking what like there's no way that i'm having a surgery and also given everything i've just been through i mean it just it kind of almost just went over here but i was like there's i've never considered that in my entire life i can't imagine myself as being someone that would ever have to go through that.

1:03:49Like, that's not me. Like, you've got the wrong person. And, and I'm, I'm like, hugely grateful to my body and to whoever is looking out for me for not putting me through that operation back then, because I wouldn't have been able to handle that recovery whilst also going through everything else. So I was okay. And I had a good stint for about a year. And then I started getting a flare up at the back end of last year. And I thought, it'll be okay. I'm resilient. I've been through a lot. And it kind of just, it got the better of me. and I stupidly went away at the beginning of this year. I mean, I shouldn't give myself such a hard time.

1:04:21I wanted to take my foot off the gas during a month, which is pretty horrendous here. And I'd had really horrendous Januaries with my health over the previous years. So I went away with family feeling quite safe in that decision. But I had to fly back early because I was bleeding a lot. and that's very traumatic obviously for me given that I've had so many hemorrhages well three major hemorrhages so I was straight off the plane and into the A &E it was bad like it was really bad like I almost didn't make it on the plane I was sat on the loo the whole time like I don't mind saying this kind of stuff like I'm always mindful of just I don't want other people to feel embarrassed when I say it but I had like I had a prolapse I say these things because it might help people out there.

1:05:09I was in agony. I was really unwell. And I went into the hospital. I was like, what are we going to do now? Where do we go from here? And I was taken up into a room. And actually one of the lovely ladies who I'd met previously who helped me with my obsgyny stuff, she came and saw me in the hospital and was like, I can't believe that you're back here. but she was very kind and I was very well looked after and I had an amazing I actually had an amazing experience like I've seen what NHS care can look like on both ends of the spectrum and I know what is possible which is why I'm speaking up about all of this because I really think that the maternity care is the is the thing that needs like a big nudge but the gastro team were great so they've removed basically my large intestine which is the one that goes around kept in all of the small intestines which are actually the important bit because they absorb all of your all of your nutrients and they basically have connected so my small intestine a tiny bit of it now comes out through my stomach and how has your life changed since then you know what it's actually it's been really really positive for me I never thought I'd be someone that sat here with a stoma and I never thought I'd be saying that but it has changed my life for the better.

1:06:30And I'm really grateful. And I, you know, when I was recovering all of the stoma team, we're like, we've honestly never seen someone so positive about having a stoma. You've adapted psychologically really well to this. I'm like, you should have seen the stuff that I went through before. I've had a lot of experience here. And actually, at least you guys are nice. Like, yeah, the compounding traumas, they put them into a spectrum. It's, it's given me my life back I feel a lot healthier in myself I feel you know there is obviously an enormous brain gut connection and I do feel like my brain is is working a lot better now and it's it's really it's it's not terribly inconvenient you know it's pretty disgusting when you first wake up with it because it's unless you've got any medical training like when have you ever seen an organ before it's it's a bit alarming you're a bit like oh gosh I've never I've never I've just never seen the insides of a body.

1:07:25So to see a bit of the insides pulled outwards is challenging, but it becomes the norm quite quickly. It's amazing how adaptable we are as humans. And after everything you've been through, what is the type of life that you want to build for yourself now? I would love to. I'm quite particular now about the things that I do, which I think is a really good thing so going through all of this has taught me to say no to anything that doesn't feel right i i really appreciate how precious time is and you know especially with being a parent as well it's just you're so busy like looking after a child is a lot so i'm i'm conscious i'm really conscious about like where to spend my energy and i really do without sounding like some sort of we were philanthropic, you know, person, I do want to do things that are going to leave more of a legacy or just helping people.

1:08:25You know, I love talking about this sort of thing. I love making people feel better and less alone. I love writing. So as I mentioned before, I was never creative. I hated English and all of those subjects. Weirdly, my trauma has allowed me to tap into a part of my brain where I can, I can write. I think when I wasn't able to, you know communicate in other ways so well I it was the only way that I could was just getting everything out of my head and onto paper but now I've realized I enjoy it and I find so much satisfaction in that and it's time consuming so I'd like to chunk out like 90 minutes a day if I can to get into that kind of flow state of just seeing what comes out and that feels really good yeah to end i'd love to know what the best piece of advice is that you've ever been given ever yeah i know wow well no my grandma said kbo i think that was a churchill statement she was like keep bashing on and i was like okay i love how flippantly you can say that when i've been through all of this trauma she's just like kbo oh my god those that generation i'm telling you never complain once it's not for me but it's not bad I mean she's she's doing really well she's in her late 80s so respect to her and my grandpa when I was on my way here I was feeling a bit anxious and I remembered something that Zara said to me which was no one knows yourself better than you and I think that you know and that might be quite specific advice going into doing something like a podcast but it could also you know relate to if you're just feeling a bit unsure you know in a social setting or anything you you know the world isn't always trying to trip you up you know you like just speak your truth be you and you can't get it wrong like you can't fail that way I think even when I was having that chat with Elizabeth Day and she was like how are you so honest like unflinchingly honest I'm like because it's the only way that you'll never get yourself in trouble no I think that's true and I think it's also a way to really own yourself and who you are and what you've been through because as you say no one can take your truth away from you like that is your truth that is your perspective of your truth and that you know no matter what anyone else feels about that that's never you know that's not wrong that's not wrong and it can't be wrong and I think that's you know it's a very powerful thing to to remember and there are certain times that I think we all probably need to remember that more 100 % like I don't need to sit here and be an expert for so long I lived in fear that I needed to be you know an expert and everything and that was so like you know it was just exhausting and I feel so liberated just being free of that well thank you so much for coming on today you've been amazing and so incredibly honest and open and I have no doubt that the way you tell your story and the way you're so open about it and you've been able to kind of own it in public I have no doubt has changed many many lives so you're incredible thank you thank you for having me this has been so refreshing and like such a good host oh thank you so much thank you

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