Ep. 112 The Real Key To Lasting Motivation With Joe Wicks

0:28Hey, it's Adam Grant from WorkLife, a podcast from TED. software, you'll work smarter, not harder. Freshworks uncomplicates. Learn more at freshworks.com. Does it ever feel like you're a marketing professional just speaking into the void? But with LinkedIn ads, you can know you're reaching the right decision makers, a network of 130 million of them. In fact, you can even target buyers by job title, industry, company, seniority, skills, and did I say job title? See how you can avoid the void and reach the right buyers with LinkedIn ads. Spend$250 on your first campaign and get a free$250 credit for the next one.

1:04Get started at linkedin.com slash campaign. Terms and conditions apply. Hi friends, Grace from the Working Hard podcast here. When you're stretching every dollar, Alilla goes a long way and Walmart Business is here to help. They make it easy to order what you need from tech and cleaning supplies to everyday essentials all at low prices and with helpful tools like spend tracking and tax exempt purchasing for eligible organizations. because when your operations are smooth, your impact can be bigger. Visit business.warmart.com to get started.

1:39What is up and welcome to Working Hard Hardly Working today. I am joined by Jo Wicks, a fitness coach, author and entrepreneur who has become a household name for millions and simultaneously built himself a business empire. Jo has had a significant impact on the world of health and fitness known to many as the body coach. He rocketed to fame with his Lean in 15 approach, bringing together 15-minute meals and HIIT workouts. And his online workouts, particularly during the pandemic, became a lifeline for millions of families, with his PE with Joe sessions gaining hundreds of thousands of views every day when schools were closed.

2:10Joe's achievements go beyond his social media success. He's published multiple best-selling cookbooks, launched a successful fitness app, and has been awarded an MBE for his services to fitness and charity. But it wasn't always a straightforward path to success. Joe's journey was shaped by the struggles he faced growing up, including a challenging family environment. His father battled addiction and his mother suffered from OCD and an eating disorder, which placed a significant emotional strain on the family. And he talks about just how much this impacted him and the way he also sees life now.

2:38And to hear how he's taken every single opportunity from that moment to build his own success through approaches which get to the core of what motivation truly is and how to use it is so inspiring and also really actionable is what I found from our conversation today. Before we get into the podcast, if you could just go and rate this on whichever podcast app you are listening to this on, it makes a huge difference to the podcast and the types of incredible conversations we're able to have, the types of guests we're able to get on. So no, it's probably something you don't think about. But if you could just go rate it now or follow it, it makes a huge difference.

3:11Thank you so much.

3:17thank you so much for joining me it's lovely to see you again well I saw you tonight that event up in the Cotswolds so it's nice to finally be here I said I promise you'll be a guest and here I am you did kept your promise um and what you did say which leads into my next question is that you were about to have a baby and so there was going to need to be some you know you needed to obviously take some time off for that and my first question is always are you more working hard or hardly working at the moment and I can expect there's quite a lot of hard work in there having just had your fourth child yeah I was literally it was touch and go I could have been like in a car back to London that very night if I had to because obviously I think Dusty my little baby boy who was born he was born about four or five days after that event so really but I was only an hour and a half from home and I thought I'm gonna get home but yeah he was born at home in a birthing pool you know it's lovely um bringing him to the world but we didn't know you know when he was gonna arrive or what he was gonna be so yeah that's number four I've got two boys two girls now good balance yeah I love that it's an even split but yeah it's very um it's high energy it's you know chaos but I love the I love that I love the the noise the energy that four kids bring and it's obviously you know never a quiet day it's always mess it's chaos but I really love being a parent so for me it's like um every time I have a kid I just feel like my life sort of like becoming a bit more colorful sort of thing yeah no I can totally imagine that and I think that it's it's funny our um tala ceo morgan she always says that you know even after the hardest of days your real superpower with kind of for her she's like my real superpower being a mom is that i go home and there are just these like two little kids that just love me and have no idea about like what's just happened at work or a different difficult conversation i've had to have or whatever it might be like they're just they're just living and they're just excited and they're you know, sometimes a nightmare.

4:59But like, that is, that's such a wonderful thing to be able to kind of depart from work and, you know, come home to. Yeah, yeah, they're definitely the, they're the funniest and the most adorable, but also the most annoying humans you're ever going to have around you because you can't get a word in edgeways. And the funny thing about my kids is they, they don't really call me dad. I don't know why, but they call me Joe, they go, Joe, Joe, my little kids call me Joe Biden to wind me up as well. So all I ever hear is my name about 50 ,000 times a day but you know I just I really just love being there with them I love you know teach them whether it's like learning a new sport or an instrument I get a lot of joy of like teaching and learning so that's kind of my favorite thing to do is obviously like any activity where they're learning something new and obviously trying to be a good dad and be present but also know that my whole business and my whole success is really based on me being on my phone right not much laptop stuff it's always phone so it's trying to get that balance of like being present and not being on it all the time but also being able to you know grow my business as well so it's definitely something I battle with I think the phone and screen time a little bit yeah no I can definitely imagine and I definitely want to come on to that I think that you've you know you've mentioned there how passionate you are around obviously helping your children and going to you know new experiences with them learning with them I know a lot of your career as well has been focused on things like going to schools and PE with Jo and all of this I'd like to start back in your early life I feel like that really helps us to gain context on someone and where their motivations come from and you've spoken before about how you had a pretty traumatic childhood at times and I'd love to hear what life was like for kind of little joe I'd love to hear I'd love for you to just set the scene a little bit for us yeah well I've been really um open about my kind of childhood I did a documentary on BBC one called facing my childhood where I literally like went back in time and interviewed my parents and sort of understood and learned what I'd been through because I sort of block a lot of it out you know I don't remember the chaos so much but basically my dad was from a very young age was suffering with addiction so my dad was a heroin addict from like for all of my life you know and still he's still battles of addiction he's still in recovery now but um you know we've got a great relationship but it was very difficult living in a home with an addict like that because although he was there like physically there emotionally he wasn't really there and also there'd be months where he was gone you know he was usually always in rehab or just in and out the house and my mum and dad's relationship would break down and it was quiet it was like it was very unstable and then alongside that my mum also had her own mental health issues she had severe anxiety um eating disorders you know she was involuntarily bulimic which is when she would eat she'd be sick and she was she you know she lived off cigarettes and coca-cola the truth you know and so I had that very um chaotic home and it was very like confrontational and so for me I realise now as an adult that the best thing that ever happened to me was going to primary school and meeting my PE teachers and having that positive role model and someone that could teach me to physically exert myself and by that point I connected the dots that I knew that if I moved my body and exercised I could deal with those feelings that sort of the fear and anxiety of walking into this house and what was going to happen it was like I could control my own emotions and so when I think about PE with Joe and what really drove me it was I was imagining myself as a kid in that council flat you know climbing the walls stressed out and fearful of what was going on and so for me it was a very big driver and even today I still think that a lot of my love and empathy comes from that sort of people pleaser side of me that wants to help people that aren't in a good position.

8:27I'd love to know when you started to get this kind of interest in helping people who might have been through what you went through or even just becoming the healthiest version of yourself when you didn't grow up in I guess such a basically healthy household yeah I had a very unhealthy child and in terms of like our diet you know when when you're on benefits you've got very low income and then when you've got a father who's a drug addict you know where the money's going right not a lot of money was going into the household so you know a lot of frozen food ready meals I mean 99 % ultra processed food so you know I had that which was probably affecting my behavior my mood my energy so you know it was um I'm always connected to that even though my life's very different now and I can afford different food and I live in a different house I'll always be connected to that that environment I grew up in and so when I thought about doing you know the workouts in schools or whether I'm doing the PE with Joseph it's like I'm trying to think of people that need the help the most and it is often low-income families that maybe don't have um you know access to good food and also maybe there's no one in that house who's a role model in terms of movement and exercise because a lot of the population it still blows mind just how sedentary the world is and so for me it seems so natural and automatic that I exercise for most people they find it really difficult so when I turn my energy from sort of personal training clients and the online fitness stuff to really working with young people it's where I really like I kind of got lit up because I realized actually if I can inspire children then they can go on to hopefully you know if they can stay active have a much healthier life because we know you know if an adult trying to get an adult into exercise is very difficult and even secondary schools I find quite challenging when I go to the primary schools they're so excited to see me they're so um you know they're so like receptive and they just want to get involved and so I always think if I can get the five six seven eight year old kids feeling how I did which was basically no matter what's going on at home no matter how mommy and daddy are being around you and the stress and the chaos that might bring you can you can change how you feel inside through movement and so the power for me is really about teaching kids that movement is medicine and it's this amazing tool that we have at our disposal and I think that's always been such a big driving being forced behind what I do.

10:32So when did you decide to become a personal trainer? So I was I was working as a teaching assistant to begin with because my path really was I thought right I'm going to go to college go to university and become a PE teacher that was all I could think of it was my goal and I thought I better try it out you know dip my toes in and just see what it's like really working in a school so I did sort of my backpacking stuff did all my traveling when I got back I signed up to like an agency they put me in this school in Kingston and it was a lovely school but it's challenging you know it's a really difficult school and I saw the pressure that teachers are under like it's such a challenging job and so I did it for about a year and a half and I said to myself you know what I love teachers I think they're amazing but I don't think personally I was cut out for it I didn't think I had the patience and you know I was too laid back and I just I couldn't discipline kids you know I mean like so in the end I said look I'm gonna I'm gonna leave that career path for now and I'm gonna try personal training because I thought I love movement I love exercise I love the human body and I'm I'm really into exercise so I did the usual sort of six week you know personal training qualification um i remember i borrowed like a couple of grand off my mum to the course um and then once i completed the course i brought about 1500 quid for my dad to sort of buy my kettlebells and boxing pads and that and you know i i've shared this story i didn't have a van or a car so i had a trailer on the back of my bike um and i really used to cycle from surbiton over to richmond to old deer park you know i'd set out my boot camp and so many times you know nobody came and there was there was one there's one session i did on a Wednesday morning every Wednesday where I knew that when I got there pretty much no one was going to be there only one person would turn up but there was a part of me that just said you've got to just keep going because it's on your website there's a there's a timetable on that website and when you give out a flyer it says Wednesday morning 6am so there was never a part of me that thought I'm going to not be there I'm going to skip that and I think that that kind of resilience and that belief that if I just keep showing up it will grow it really it really kept me going in those darker times when no one was showing up.

12:23That literally breaks my heart that you would turn up and there would be no one there that literally like that's the type of thing but just like it's so obviously it's in hindsight it's pretty easy to see why you would keep going and why you would turn up and there'd be no one there and you just go okay fine it's gonna work it's gonna work out and as you say like you've you've put it on a website and you've put it on a flyer and who knows that day someone might come and bring three of their friends or whatever it might be but how did you really have that in you because that is a lot of effort to be going from home cycling to Richmond setting up no one coming and it's a kick to the kind of ego enthusiasm all of the above like how did you start to build that resilience because I don't think that's that would hurt anyone it's funny because I usually always cry when I tell that story I find it emotional because it was it was a tough time like you know I had no money and I was living my dad and I was skint and I felt like I was never gonna be able to pay him back and you know I found it quite emotional i also used to used to get home my brother nicky was like getting up to go to work to london he'd be like you know how many people turn up today and it would always really upset him as well but i just was like it's all right i'm good like i'll just you know i'll go back next week and i used to basically once i set up the boot camp and i always visualize like 20 people there so they've got 20 stations and i'd in in the end i'd go all right well you know what it's set up so i'd do a little workout i'd pack it all up i'd go over to um richmond train station and i would hand out my flyers which for me was the hardest part of the whole thing so i was so shy and introvert.

13:52I'm not a super confident person. So imagine on your own outside a train station trying to give a fly to someone who's in a rush. They really don't want to see you. They think you're a nuisance. But I just don't know. It's just an internal voice. I just said to myself, if I don't do this, if I just throw in the towel and give up, I'm going to have to go and work for a gym, which is completely fine. But I always had this desire to be my own boss, to work for myself, to own my own time, to have the freedom to have days off and to work really hard on a Monday, but then have a Tuesday off. And I knew that if I worked for a company, that just isn't there's the flexibility isn't there so I don't know where that voice come from it's not my mum and dad it's no one around me and I just kept thinking Joe if you turn up next week someone will come and it will build and it will grow and I really applied that same mentality to my Instagram you know when I started sharing the Lean in 15 recipes like that no one was watching no one was no one was commenting you know no one's getting book deals this is like before like you know the delicious yellow and Joe Wicks Lean in 15 kind of thing where everyone was getting book deals this is really early on but I just loved sharing content and I just kept thinking of one more person will watch one more person will share um the same thing happened with youtube you know it takes 10 years to build a channel right it takes so long but i've just never had this voice that says joe this isn't working give up go back to um you know go back to what you're doing and even in the early days my friends like friends and family not not family but friends would be be on my instagram comment and go oh what are these silly videos you're winding me up you're so annoying stop shouting at the food in the pan and get back to your boot camps but i just didn't listen to those negative voices and just sort of thought you know what i'm having fun and look where it got me look what it built you know over all those years yeah and i think that is a really valuable lesson for everyone i think that a lot of people that i've had on this podcast have said that there was almost something that just kept them going even when something all the data would say this isn't working and i think that that's something that very much ties a lot of successful people together and i think that when you start to internalize that you start to realize how much it is just important to understand it's not going to be everything and quitting can be really valuable at points and knowing when something is done and it's time to move on is one of the best strengths that you can possibly have but also really being able to understand that sometimes things do take longer just because it's taking time doesn't mean it's not happening all of these things i think is really valuable when did it start to pick up at the boot camps it took a while you know the first boot camp was in richmond and you know i remember like thinking I had like maybe two people on direct debit so I was getting like 90 quid a month and I was like imagine when I get four it would be like 180 whatever and it it just took a long time probably took about a year and a half for it to become like a business where I was probably earning like you know 1500 pound a month and I was like that's pretty good and I had another boot come in which was which is good so I had a lovely little business I was really happy like don't ever think that I had this vision of becoming this famous body coach and DVDs and book deals I literally was so happy with my life I lived in a one-bedging flat I had two boot camps you know I was training in personal training clients as well around that so I had a lovely lovely lifestyle but my vision was basically to have like maybe four or five boot camps and have other trainers working that was as big as my you know mind could dream but I really found it hard finding other trainers who could come on who were willing to do the 6 a.m and the 7 p.m and you know actually graph for it because it's really hard it's a hard it's a hard industry and also they wanted to do the summer months we didn't want to do the winter months so that vision of my boot camp growing didn't really ever happen and so alongside that obviously instagram opened up sort of video in 20 2013 2014 and i started sharing those first original lean in 15 videos which a lot of people really thought it was like 15 because it was 2015 but it was actually a 15 minute meal and it was a 15 second video because you could only share 15 second videos so the hashtag was and that right there is lean in 15 and again that was just a silly idea me on an iphone in a one bedroom flat whilst personal training and the the drive was just the drive and the motivation was in the fact that i shared the video and someone would go out and buy those ingredients and an hour later was cooking it and sharing that back to me and so that was where the the buzz came and the sort of dopamine hit so again every day monday to friday i'd post five recipes two a day sometimes um and that opportunity then suddenly i've got a publisher ring up and say hey would you love to do a cookbook with us and i was a bit like you know i'm not a chef i'm not really a trained cook i'm not a great writer, but I'll have a go.

18:06So I signed a book deal. And I'm so glad I did because that book deal, you know, that first book, the red one, the Lean 15 book is the second bestselling cookbook of all time after Jamie Oliver. And so imagine if I didn't have the confidence to try and I said, oh, you know what? I'm okay. I never would have changed lives. I've got millions of families cooking because of that. So again, it wasn't strategic. I'm not that smart. I don't think that far ahead. And even with PE with Joe, I had no idea it was going to be so successful, but the drive to do it was there and the technology was and I just combined my energy and love for movement had a bit of fun went live and then you know before you know it the whole of the UK I know it really really is incredible and I think that especially at that time on Instagram as well we can't forget that it wasn't the done thing to be posting anything other than just like your daily life it wasn't we look back now and we're you know talking about how important that's always been in a platform like an amazing platform that you can blow up on and all of that but that really wasn't how anyone was seeing at the time because you weren't seeing how people could do that because no one was getting book deals from something like Instagram how long did it take to actually from from I guess your first posting your first recipe to getting that call for that book deal because I can imagine that was a crazy call to receive I think it took about probably about a year and a half into Instagram into my journey because it was growing quite steadily like back in the day it was it was easy to grow you know there was less users there was not many people doing it and obviously my wacky videos where I was screaming in with a Lucy B writing the mic you know it's crazy and I struggle to watch the map I cringe a little bit but it caught people's attention you know so I think a year and a half went past maybe I had about 50 ,000 followers at the time and yeah um Pam McMillan reached out and was like do you want to do a book and I just said I'll come and have a meeting and then they sort of convinced me to do it and I'm so glad because you know I took my sort of we haven't really mentioned that also that the online sort of it's the pdf fitness business and turn it into cookbooks, which people could afford because, you know, the 90-day plan was a bit more expensive and the books were only, you know, eight, nine quid each, so it made it more accessible.

20:03So I love that I've had this ability to sort of connect with all of my free content, whether it's recipes and YouTube videos, and then obviously there's a business side that we can talk about because I still to this day can't believe the success I've had and the longevity that I've had because usually, like a musician, you have a big album, you have a big moment, and it's really hard to sustain that, like, long term. And same with fitness. You know, you've seen it before. like amazing influencers popping off thousands of followers millions of um dollars from online plans and suddenly they they kind of fade away and i and i do wonder and i question like how have i stayed relevant how have i managed to connect with two-year-old kids doing my you know p.e.

20:37with joe and hey dougie workouts to you know i go to care homes and exercise with you know senior citizens a 90 year old man that does my workouts every day on youtube and i think when i when i do think about why i think it's because i just love connecting and i'm so driven by the purpose of like just get people moving and don't get distracted by everything else and I think that's why I've managed to you know the message has always been the same with me I think and I've managed to maintain attention and and maintain people's um you know attention I'm inspiring them still you know yeah and it strikes me as well that like the way you talk about things is that you want to you want to change lives and you want people's lives to be healthier you want them to move more you want them to eat better all of these different things what do you think is the secret to maintaining motivation for longer periods of time when people might have just come into your work based on something like a 90-day plan or only cooking a 15-minute meal or whatever it might be well my north star i'm one of my sort of my mission statements i want i want exercise to be fun and accessible to everybody so that does come through from youtube through instagram stories through my recipes and obviously books and and obviously the fitness app which has been sort of a recent thing but again I'm just trying to promote this message of like it doesn't have to be this overwhelming stressful like unhappy process like you can actually enjoy the journey of looking after yourself by doing like small daily wins you know little daily choices it could be around and I do talk a lot about sleep movement and nutrition because I think those three things are so important and you don't always get everything right like there's gonna be nights you're up to 1am because you're stressed out or you've you know you've had a takeaway and you've had a bit of a binge because you've had a stressful day and you know you return to food and we're emotional and there's other days where you'll do no exercise and that's fine I think it's about you've got to ride those waves of emotion and and obviously motivation but I think the reason people connect with me on a on a deeper level is because I'm very honest and like you know if I'm stressed and the kids have had me up all night and I'm up having you know four slices of marmalade and toast and chocolate all day and fizzy drinks because I'm really knackered like I think the more I share the realities of what it's really like the more people connect and so I'm not perfect you know I have days where I'm I'm really unhealthy and I'm on if I'm on these tours I'm on the road like I'm living at petrol stations and eating out every night in pubs and stuff so if I'm really bloated and I've got a big pot belly on me I share it and next thing you know it's a Daily Mail article you know because people like that human the truth of like life it's never that easy like and I did a post this morning actually like a bit of a rant after my workout saying I want to be honest with you, like not many people say this in the fitness industry, but being in shape is really hard.

23:10Like finding the time for yourself, finding the motivation and being consistent is really, really hard. Like it's never going to be easy. But today, just focus on what you can do today. And that that little mindset shift, I think, is really helping people at the moment. Yeah, because a lot of times it feels so overwhelming, doesn't it? Especially if it's like a weight loss goal or a mental health goal. You think I'm never going to reach that. And so you're almost paralyzed sort of thing by the by the by the process. But if you just control what you can today, you'll feel better and it will lead to a positive day.

23:37The market's uncertain. Revenue's tied and hiring on hold. That's why results-driven companies are using Upwork to keep work moving. Go to Upwork.com today and start hiring proven freelance talent fast. No bulky overhead. No rigid long-term contracts. Just the right expert right when you need them. Work smarter and faster with Upwork. Go to Upwork.com now and find your freelance expert. That's U-P-W-O-R-K.com. Post a job for free and get started today. They say if you want to go fast, go alone. But if you want to go far, go together. At Amica Insurance, we know what matters most to you. And we work even harder to protect it together.

24:24As a mutual insurance company, we're built for our customers and prioritize your needs. Amica. Empathy is our best policy. Visit amica.com and get a quote today.

25:03think with capella university learn more at capella.edu how do you even start to build yourself a consistently healthy lifestyle like every day doing what you need to do when actually your background is so different from that i think i think there's ways of just seeing it in a like a breaking down to smaller smaller kind of um bite-sized chunks is really powerful especially for like motivation because sometimes if you don't achieve everything you put in your diary or it doesn't go to plan you sort of think oh what's the point and you you lose motivation or you you don't get results like you want and suddenly like you just disconnect from exercise and food but you know I think the basics are so important so the first thing you need to prioritize if you're struggling is your sleep because nothing nothing is easy when you're exhausted like I've got these four kids that wake me up every night and I'm finding really hard to exercise like really really got to dig a bit deeper but the sleep is so important because when you're well rested you know you have much better willpower around food you've got more energy to exercise you can make better choices and so i think the sleep's really the first important thing to focus on and we are a sleep deprived population i think because of devices social media entertainment um you know stress and work and children as well thrown into the mix when you have kids it becomes a lot harder so if you just focus on sleep so think about a routine can you and i'm bad for this because sometimes i'll take my phone into the bedroom and it will keep me up and i'm on it till 2 a.m so for me i've got to leave the phone in another room leave it downstairs get a loomy alarm clock that wakes you up like a bird's tweeting in the sunrise and that's beautiful to wake you up and then that gives you a chance to get a better night's sleep um second thing is um you know i know this is so boring and cliche and old school but meal prepping right if you're not preparing your own food and cooking your own food who is where's it coming from it's usually processed it's from you know a warehouse or factory or restaurant and it's really hard to stay on track of your health and fitness goals if you're relying solely on food out on the go so you know make a big bolognese or a big curry or you know a big overnight oats like these little things i know it seems like well does that really make a difference but it totally does it really makes a difference um and the third thing is movement you know and i think there's this pressure to like you've got to lift weights you've got to be really strong you've got to be doing hit if you're not what are you doing what's the point like that's not true like you know i see all movement as as medicine i see all movement as exercise and i see for me sometimes it's literally like playing hide and seek in my house with my kids or going in the garden and running around you know or going for a little you know and i told you this morning i literally i'm one of those groovy dads that came to this podcast on a on a micro scooter and so that's movement so i think it's about finding the time finding something you love and just you're not going to get all those three things right every day you're just not and it's just focusing on the little things can you do one of those things today or two of those things and when you do you start to get momentum you build this sort of like psychological resilience to think that actually I can eat when I'm hungry not just when I'm bored and stressed I can find time to exercise because I know I'll be happier and I'll be a better parent I'll be more patient and I can have a bedtime routine that allows me to feel good the next day and so that's it they're the three kind of pillars I think and everything else falls into place when those things are working out yeah I think that's so true and I think a lot of that in terms of breaking it down into smaller bits and not necessarily just seeing it as you know needing to get a workout in or all of these different things are so incredibly helpful yesterday I was running around all day and I was so back to back and I was at a shoot and then the first thing I saw on the side was some sweets and I was like I'm I'm so I was like I need something because I'm feeling very like yeah I'm kind of hungry but I'm stressed and like all of this and I so nearly grabbed them and it's not that that's bad or should be demonized but it's I just I just know and obviously have trained myself for a long time to know that actually if I go for that I'm going to feel the exact same in about half an hour and probably even worse and just really it's taken me a very long time to really draw the lines between actually that's not that easy and everything convenient generally is a little bit worse for us giving yourself the grace to make those you know mistakes sometimes but also understanding that as you say it really is just about every single day like how can you make the best decisions each day rather than thinking oh i'm going to do this big new thing for the next six months but actually just today what am i going to do do you know it's really helped with that because i also have a really sweet tooth and i've sort of told myself this story that i need something sweet after every meal i can't eat chocolate in moderation i have to have pudding every day like i want to go to the pub yeah i've told myself this story it's a narrative and i genuinely convinced you know i'm addicted to sugar and of course like it is very addictive but i've read challenge i've challenged that and reprogram myself because now i'm starting to think like I don't need to eat a whole bar of chocolate.

29:41I don't need to have a sticky toffee pudding every time I go to the pub. I can just have the roast dinner and a soda water and lime. I don't need to have the roast, the sticky toffee pudding, and three pints of Coke, which is normally what I do. I just go all in, do you know what I mean? And so that, for me, really affects my mood, my energy. I get really bloated. You know, I don't feel good. So it's just having those little wins. It's like going into certain situations that you'd normally go, oh, well, it's dinner time, so therefore I must have pudding. And even though, for me, sometimes it's something you'd consider healthy, but I might have a big bowl of yogurt with granola, loads of honey and berries.

30:13It's still sugar. I'm still relying on that sweetness. And so, yeah, it's just like some nights out of the week I'm having pudding. Some nights I'm having three slices of marmalade and toast for pudding. Other times I'm not. And so it's just like knowing that you can have days where you're not always repeating the same things. And those little choices, those little wins where you're not having a chocolate bar every single lunch break, it does make a difference. It adds up. I think that's so true in all walks of life as well. I think we tell ourselves things about ourself that we then make a kind of self-fulfilling prophecy.

30:42Like we tell ourselves, oh, well, I'm like this or I don't wake up early or I, you know, I'm always really bad and I go to bed super late. But it's kind of just who I am. Like it makes us feel more comfortable to categorize ourselves and therefore to replicate the patterns that we set for ourselves. how would you advise someone who's in that kind of cycle to start breaking out of just telling themselves they're like something and just keeping on acting in the same way when actually they know they need to change something the saddest thing to me is when i hear of people like you know spend their whole life on diets you know and sort of like always trying things that are just unsustainable and obviously there's going to be a sense of failure if it doesn't work because it's just not realistic so you have to start thinking about things that you can live a sustainable way so you shouldn't completely remove the things you love from your life it's just about reducing them it's like reducing the portion sizes it's okay to skip lunch just because it hits 12 o 'clock doesn't mean you have to eat lunch you know we've been convinced by marketing and products that we need to snack all through the day and it's lunchtime you should eat now like but it's okay to just have a little rest have a little breather and think am i hungry or bored or stressed or am i just told i need to eat this now because it's a certain time of the day and i think when you start to fill those hunger hormones and energy like to tune into your real energy supply and your energy demands you start to find it a lot easier and you know i mean so it's like it's a case of like just tapping into your body a little bit more and not just like listen to the the marketing signals that we're bombarded with and that for me has been a big change because i usually eat three or four times a day all day long i'm and i like to feel stuffed and so i'm trying to learn to sort of actually just eat a bit slower have slightly smaller portions see how you feel and most of the time i realize i don't need to eat as much as i think i'm eat like usually need to eat and I'm feeling much better like in terms of my gut health my digestion but yeah it's a daily challenge right because we're bombarded with messaging and every single touch point for the day is the foods you love like the tempting foods that we love the sugary foods and so I'm about more about like rather than have a strict sort of like yes or no it's more like a guideline I follow and some days I might have a sugar free day other days I'm having loads of sugar and that's fine and what about someone who hasn't grown up exercising a lot and their families never prioritised it and maybe they didn't love it at school or they didn't have the inspiring PE teachers you had or I know a lot of women young women and girls in school find it very very hard to get into PE because it's not prioritised or they don't have the appropriate period products or whatever it might be how would you recommend they start to integrate that kind of daily movement that you talk about into their routine?

33:12Well the great thing about you know this current age of living is that you've got this ability to like watch content online from your home and obviously I've got this amazing YouTube channel, but it's mainly obviously hip workouts and strength training. And you might not like that, but there might be an amazing, you know, yoga teacher or Pilates teacher. You can find anything and do it in the comfort of your own home. And I think it's a good place to start because if you have, if you have body image issues or you're not confident and you feel like, Oh, I don't want to walk into a busy gym, that's okay.

33:36So I think it's about maybe start with home workouts. Um, and then you could progress potentially to signing up to like a, you know, a 5k run or join a local run club. I think community is a really important aspect. and I've just recently started um training for a triathlon I'm doing it this Sunday coming it's only a tiny little sprint triathlon but I go down to this open water lake and they're so friendly it's like this little community and you know just having like people to meet who are on the same sort of mission the same path is really wonderful so I think social can have a big part of it like community um I also think being accountable as well like trying to share your goals as well like talk about it share with your friends and family share on social media because when you put out to the world like i'm going to run a 5k in six months time or i'm going to sign up to a you know a high rocks or something like it's having something in the diary is really motivating um and also think about things that aren't necessarily sport and competitive it could be something fun like bouldering you know or or going um you know getting into like um like water sports could be like kayaking or wakeboard there's always there's so many activities you can try that you might really love and suddenly a hobby can become your exercise and become the thing you do regularly but I do think there's this pressure now for everyone to be lifting heavy weights and high intensity sweatshirts and if you're not you know doing that you're not really fit but I just think fitness comes in all different shapes and sizes and so keep trying things keep learning you know learn a new skill and try something different I don't have a really like regimented regime like sometimes I'll go for a run today I had a little I don't go my peloton this morning but like I just see how I feel whatever you're in the mood for and I think the biggest moment for me and the biggest transition and thing that's really kept me going like as I get a bit older the four kids and stuff is when you shift your mindset and goals from being just body image to being more about the mental health benefits of exercise like really forget about the fat loss in the inches and I know it's hard because we're so driven by our image and even me like I say that but I still want to be lean right and I still want to be a little bit lean and a little bit stronger but when you actually think about all the other benefits exercise brings for you and for me it's like mood and energy patience with my kids I'm kinder to be around I'm more ambitious I feel like the world's not so bad you know I feel like I can be more positive and optimistic so So when you target and focus on all those things or focus on getting stronger, physically stronger, the fat loss and the weight loss will come over time.

35:44But I think if you focus sold on that, it's just not a big enough motivator, you know. So really think about that as you as you plan your week, like what you're trying to achieve, you know, what how do you want to feel every day? And I think that's going to pull you back to exercise and nutrition way more than just the weight and the scales or an image that you've seen in the photo. I mean, I think it's really important to do that. Yeah, no, I completely agree. and what about for someone who's listening who's saying okay well I try and get movement in but also I'm a you know I have kids and I'm finding it exhausting and actually every spare second I get I just want to take a nap like I don't want to go out and do a run or do a walk or do a 30 minute YouTube workout whatever it might be what would you say to someone in terms of how they should be kind of building a day-to-day that they feel happy with in terms of things like movement sleep and nutrition whilst understanding that it's also really fucking hard a lot of the time well i'm going through that right now so my little boy dusty was born 11 weeks ago i've also got a um a two-year-old girl called lenny who also wakes up in the night for a cuddle or a bit of milk not milk but like she needs a bottle of water and stuff so i'm right in the middle of it i know so i can truly relate to those parents that are tired and i woke up this morning again i you wake up when you've been woken up multiple times by a child and you're quite resentful you're a bit angry about it because why is this little person woke me up but you don't have to be there for him and it's just life it's part of being a parent and so for me the the first thought I think about is just get up no matter how heavy my body feels or how stressed I'm feeling I know that when I go and do the exercise I'm going to feel better afterwards I'm going to feel more energized and I I just feel like a much kinder human being so when I come downstairs to see the kids I'm really happy to see them I'm like dinner breakfast time and you know if I if I woke up and just carry that resentment and that stress in my body I wouldn't be the same person I am and I would be more snappy and more intolerant and stuff.

37:26So I think that's the biggest thing to think about. And it doesn't have to be a really intense session. Sometimes I'll just go up to the gym and have a stretch and I'll lift a few weights really like sluggishly for 20 minutes, but I still, I feel like I've done something. So I think, you know, be kind to yourself and understand if you're truly physically exhausted, I think take the nap, like always take the nap. But if you're just a bit tired, a bit grumpy and a bit grouchy and you've had like broken sleep, I think it's okay to push through that and exercise because the benefits like the actual energy it gives you.

37:54I think a lot of people are waiting for they're waiting for time and energy but actually if you want energy and motivation and time you've just got to squeeze in that little bit of exercise and it's always at the end of it isn't it like it comes so yeah it's really hard when you're a new parent and especially if you feel like guilty that you've left them or guilty that you know you're you're not with them every single second but I think it's an investment you being kind to yourself means you're a better parent and it really impacts my parenting yeah no I think that's so true and I actually saw a video I think it was yesterday on Instagram and this do you know Steph Claire Smith in Australia she was like one of the OG kind of fitness type people and she she posted a video saying you know it's my day with my son and I really needed to go to the gym so I took him to the gym and all of this and someone had left a comment being like if it's your day with your son why the hell are you going to the gym like spend some time with your son she did this video kind of being like I'm a better parent when I prioritize myself at some point during the day like I needed some movement I took him to the gym I had a great time he had a great time like kids want to see what you're doing kids want to like are influenced by these things and it is important for them as well and I think we have so much time to shame parents in terms of how they spend their time in order to enrich their kids lives and I think that you know there's only so much I can say on it because I'm not a parent and I won't even understand that but I also think that we have so much time to shame parents for that type of thing when actually the best thing you can do for your kids surely is showing them you as the best parent you can be and you as the best parent you can be as a parent who's prioritized themselves who's given themselves some own their own time who said do you know what I do need half an hour or I do need you like why don't you sit on the sofa and kind of do this while I'm going to follow this workout or whatever it might be you know you've talked about how important your childhood was in shaping you and I think the importance of showing children what a healthy life looks like and what a happy parent looks like based on having given yourself your own time I think is so incredibly important I 100 % agree with that and I really am so passionate about showing that and being a positive role model to other parents because you know it is stressful all being a parent i mean imagine i've got four kids under six years old like they're the most annoying human beings in the world but they're so amazing as well and so it's like you've got to find that time for yourself because if you don't you're just constantly a bit stressed a bit a bit anxious you're a bit kind of frustrated about the world and so i think finding that time and i'm the same with rosie i can see she's had a tough tough night or she's stressed i say rosie like i'll take the kids out go and have a half an hour workout and you know when she does she always feels better and we just feel a bit calmer as parents um but we are the greatest role model to our children so like what role model do you want to be and I really really prioritize you know for me personally I love getting my kids in the kitchen I know it's messy and they drive me mad but getting them to cook and learn to enjoy food is really important to me the second thing is movement like it's not like dad goes to the gym mom goes to the gym and the kids never see it I actually like I've obviously I'm really blessed I've got a little home gym so they come up to the gym and yesterday this is funny I did 10 pull-ups my little boy says I want to do 11 and he's only four and he's done 11 pull-ups like little baby half reps they weren't full reps but and i cheered him on and i was celebrating and i just celebrate everything like because if he ever asked me like i'm not always in the mood i just want to be on my own something but if he ever says daddy can i work out of you i always say yes because i i don't want to kill his motivation and sometimes i want to go for a fast run around the block and he'll say oh daddy can i come and i'm like it's gonna be really slow and i said can you ride your bike and like then it'll like be my pacer on his bike so it's trying to incorporate them into your world and let them see you exercise because they absorb it and although they might not be really sporty and like you know competitive they're going to just learn that when mummy exercise or daddy does a bit of movement he's really happy he's nicer he's kinder he doesn't shout and stuff and these are little signals that they're picking up from so yeah it is obviously much harder it's nicer just to say right i want to go to the gym for an hour and there's no kids and it's like your time but trying to be trying to be a role model and every now and again just doing something as a family i think is really really powerful um and obviously my kids see it every day because of pee with joe and obviously me filming for the app and for the youtube channel so So it is something that's just so second nature to them.

42:01But they're not like kids that wake up going, oh, I want to go for a run, Daddy. I want to go do part run. They're not. I have to be the one that gets them out of the house. I have to be the energy that gets us all moving. And so I am the cheerleader. I do round them up and we get out of the house. And then we come home and watch an hour of Disney Plus and we chill. Do you know what I mean? So it's not all go, go, go. But someone in the house has got to be getting their trainers on, getting their jackets on and getting out. And it's obviously much harder coming into the winter months. It's going to be much colder.

42:27but you've got to be the positive role model in that family and lift the energy of the whole family and the whole household. Yeah and I guess so much of your work is around positivity and you talk about there being the like cheerleader in the house and I can imagine that some days that's really hard. Have you ever found it difficult to maintain this kind of massive positivity of the body coach? For me it just comes quite naturally because I just feel like I want to be a positive energy in the world so I'm not like it's not too forced and I'm so lucky that my community online is very positive, you know, and I know you, you've struggled as well in the past and I have had some negative press and comments and stuff.

43:01And it's, I'm lucky it's a small percentage because if it was every day, I'd really struggled to be on social media, but I feel like I've nurtured, you know, a nice environment where people want to be inspired. They want to be motivated. And so every day I just think about that. I think about like, can I share a motivational story or a nice recipe or a little workout that's going to nudge some in the right direction? But you know, there are days when I'm flat and I'm a bit down, but I think because, because of my habits and my sort consistency with my food and exercise, I do feel a little bit more perky, a little bit more like, you know, a bit more optimistic and happy about things.

43:31If I, if I stuck myself into the mainstream media and I didn't exercise and I just ate chocolate every day, you know, I'd find, I'd find it really hard being the body coach. So I think it's something I'm passionate about and I want to be a positive role model for families. I want to be a positive role model for kids and, you know, for everybody. I talk a lot about mental health, all the things I'm passionate about, but it's not forced, you know, it's never like, it's never like I'm trying, I'm not speaking for a filter I'm not like pretending that I'm someone I'm just trying to like share the realities of what my life is like and some people tune in some people unfollow and you know I just think it's about inspiring and giving people like the belief that they can have a better life themselves and make some small changes.

44:08And what about those days where you're kind of really lacking positivity or it's really hard or you've been through something really tough or the business isn't going how you want it to go how do you I guess pick yourself up and show up how you need to show up on those days it's always exercise my first thing my first portal call because I've tried turning to junk food and food and you know I feel good for a minute but then I don't and then like you know I've tried like um you know watching those tv and distracting myself my phone and numbing my sort of thoughts and feelings through social media but really the biggest thing to shift my mindset more than anything is exercise.

44:46And I always think the harder I push to, like if I lift a really heavy set of weights or do a proper hard head strength session or I go and like smash a HIIT workout, the benefits in my mind are so powerful. It clears my head so much. A lot of people struggle to believe that they're like, well, I don't feel that. But maybe if you're really out of shape and you haven't quite got those endorphins yet, you've got to push through a little bit more, like do a couple more weeks of it. So I think for me, you know, my number one thing to turn to is exercise. And then the second thing is probably just talking, like picking up the phone, ringing my brother or speaking to my mum or, you know, my wife and communicating about how I'm feeling.

45:17And then once you talk, I think there's a lot of power in that because you release the fear or the emotion and you actually feel that you're not alone and you can talk through it. And I think that's really important. I think a lot of people, we bottle it all up. We live in our own little minds and we sort of think we just don't need to share it and give it to someone else. But actually, when you share that message with someone and people around you that care about you will want to help you. So I think communication is really key, especially for young men. You know, we're not talking enough. Yeah, no, definitely.

45:40And I think that, you know, a problem shared is very much a problem halved. I'd love to know what the proudest moment of your whole career has been. Nothing will ever top, you know, what I've done in lockdown, I think. You know, even if I have amazing business success or some next project that's amazing, nothing will, the impact that that had, you know, it was only when I finished it, I knew how much it meant to people. And nine times out of 10, when someone comes to meet me at these big runs I do or one of my events or anyone in the street, it's thank you so much for what you did in lockdown.

46:09You helped me get through a difficult time. You helped my kids who were struggling. And so it will always be like my career highlight and the moment that I'm so proud of because I was truly like living my purpose, if you like. You know, I was getting kids moving. I was getting millions of people moving every day. And I know that for that 30 minutes, they felt good. They felt happier. And they didn't think about COVID and lockdown and not being at school. And, yeah, I think it will always be the thing I look back at and think, you know, what a moment for me to actually help people through. And it will never happen again.

46:37You know, it will never happen in that way again. Even if we went into COVID lockdown tomorrow, no one would do it like that. It would never be the same numbers, the same amount of people. So it was a once in a lifetime moment where I really helped people through such a difficult time. And how do you deal with feeling like you've had something like that that will never happen again, that you loved so much? Like, I think that it's quite it's easy to gloss over the fact that sometimes having something that you feel like was a real peak that will never come back is actually quite hard at points. like do you ever feel sad that that won't come back obviously not the lockdown and stuff but in terms of you know what you did there and what you were able to make happen yeah they talk about it like it's like the gold medal syndrome that way you win a gold medal and you come home and it's like oh what now you lose motivation and i definitely felt a bit flat after it happened because i was so exhausted i was like oh no you know am i still value i'm still helping people and although even so that's not on the scale of that that was tens of millions of people a week this is i'm still getting you know millions of people on my youtube channel every month and my app's doing really well and i'm so proud of that so i don't really think about the bigger number i just think about one person at a time so although yeah i'm not reaching millions i'm still talking to a lot of people and um yeah i think i think it's about focusing on that really in the dms i i get you wouldn't believe like i still spend every day getting into my dms the only person that has access to my instagram is my brother nicky but he might like post you know an advert for the app or he might post a video or recipe but he's not i'm it's me when you get messages back on instagram it's for me so i'm so in touch with my community still i'm so connected to the mission and the dms i read you know the impact that i have and so it's very emotional for me like i need to i need to be in tune with that because otherwise it's just views and subscribers and revenue and data it's like it's not real so when i do these mad runs i went to brighton at the weekend and there was you know 2 000 people turned up and i don't leave until everyone gets a selfie and the reason i do that is because i want to meet them all and have a hug and I want to hear like why are you here and it's it's always to do with like you know the impact that my content's putting out in the world has had so you know I just I just have so much energy for it still and I think I'll know the day I know that I'm not enjoying it or it's forced or I'm not truly being authentic I think I'll I think I'll know do you know I mean but I still I still really love it and even though I'm 39 this month um I'm still connecting with people and I love that yeah and I think that what you just said there as well about do you know what I think about it one person at a time that is the importance of having like a north star and a mission and something you want to do I think you know you've talked about how much you want to change people's lives and you want to help get them moving and all of that and I think that it is so easy no matter what work you're in to constantly think about the height of things or the best moment here or the time we made most money or the time you know I got promoted or any of these things and it's really really easy to constantly feel like you're on a down then after those moments or you're constantly struggling with all of these things which may well be true but when you have something that ties you back to like either it's the type of person you want to become or the type of business you want to build or the type of person you want to be at work as long as you're ticking that off everything's good like it doesn't matter if it's a harder month it doesn't matter if the business isn't doing great like whatever it might be of course that's going to be stressful but that is the importance of having a mission that you're kind of tied back to no matter how big or small that is I feel like that can really help when times aren't so good yeah that's a good point and I've obviously had this career moment where I had you know p which was a big moment obviously like my first cookbook was amazing and then from that point and numbers went down but it doesn't affect me because I still know that I'm having an impact and I'm you know I'm not selling millions of books but I still know that there's still loads of bookshelves in the UK where one night a week someone's putting out a book and they're cooking a healthy recipe and so I'm very much that plus one kind of thing of like today it's about one person.

50:21I think about that person, you know, who are they? Well, they're probably on a low income family, they're probably stressed, they've probably got a lot of negative emotion, they're probably feeling quite down. And I just think about that person. And that's, that's the purpose for me. That's the mission. And I believe as long as I keep putting content out like that, that's helping, I'll still, I'll still be connecting with people. I'll still be, you know, helping. And I think if you, if you don't get distracted by the other things, which, you know, when you have a big following, there's loads of opportunities.

50:46I've been really good at saying no to things and that's why my Instagram following still grows that's why my channel and my business is growing I think the minute you're just seeing to be doing loads of different stuff and it's just about you know essentially monetizing attention I think that I think it doesn't work it does in the short term and you've seen loads of people do great but where are they now you know because you know I think longevity in this business in any business is about connection with people and adding value to their life which is more than just like promoting a product to them you know yeah no I completely agree with that and what is the best piece of advice that you've ever received this is from my dad so my dad said this to me once and it's been such a like it was like a light bulb like a lightning bolt in my mind and he's never said anything so kind of inspiring before but he said to me joe if you're going to miss the bus miss it running and i sat there for a minute i was like what does that mean and i realized what it means is like you know if even if you know you're not going to reach a goal you've got to at least try and you've got to try and catch the bus because if you don't you're never going to know but if you actually like if you ran and put in the effort maybe you'll catch the bus and i think that mentality has been sort of in my in my dna since since since i suppose since as a teenager i've always just tried my hardest had a go and you know things have worked out well but if i hadn't and i just given up and i didn't even bother trying to run to the bus you're never going to catch that opportunity yeah that's so that's simple but it makes it's impactful to me yeah definitely and i think it's so easy to you know we were talking about categorizing yourself and being being like i'm this type of person i'm this type of person so i'll never stick to that or i'll never do that maybe you made it work for two days this week and that's much better than zero just because you told yourself you weren't going to and i feel like that kind of if you're going to miss it miss it running yeah fits in so well with that because it's just like okay we'll try like what's the worst that could happen and all the little choices i say this a lot you know the little the insignificant choice that mean nothing they really add up like like i said where it's going out not having two glasses of wine at dinner just having a nice meal like all these little kind of decisions micro choices micro decisions you make it starts to reflect on your body on your energy on your mental health it's not just this like all or nothing thing it doesn't have to be so extreme i think when it is extreme and you go extreme keto extremely low calorie dial you just do meal replacements like you might get results for a week or two but it's not long term same with the pills injections potions there's no there's no quick fix you know you really have to work at it and when you achieve what you want do you know the sad thing is you've got to keep on going because you just lose it straight away.

53:09You've got to earn it and you've got to hold on to it. And the only way you can hold on to fitness and strength and good mental health is by having a manageability and a consistency to your life. And that's why very few people in this world manage to do it because it's really hard. But that's not to say you can't. You just have to put in little things in place and keep challenging those narratives, those decisions, those thoughts in your mind that tell you you're a failure. You've always looked this way. You're never going to look any different. You're weak. You can't do push-ups. I'm never going to do a pull-up.

53:36everyone can learn to do a pull up it just takes time you know and anyone can learn to run 5k it just takes time and it takes effort it's like it's motivation in action right you've got to be like motivated but also put into action you can't just say i really want to be a different person i really want to change my life i really don't like the job i've got or the relationship i'm in or or you know my mental health i don't want to be this person but you have to then put it into action because you know even if someone's trying to encourage you it doesn't matter what they say you have to intrinsically want to do it for yourself.

54:08And one final thought I'd like to end on is that happiness is an inside job. You know, we can look at external things. We can buy ourselves nice cars and clothes and watches, but it's like it's all inside, man. It's literally like you've got to look after yourself internally and that's going to come through sleep, movement, good food. That's it. It really is. They're the basic human needs and then everything else. Life can start to feel a lot better, you know, and a lot easier. Yeah, well, I think that's the perfect place to end. Thank you so much. you've been incredible um I think there is a lot to learn from you make it sound so simple but I think that that's that's the beauty of what you do it's really kind of breaking it down and making it accessible and just this kind of one step at a time which I think we can all definitely learn a lot from and learn a lot in terms of kind of how we can implement so thank you so much thank you so much and listen well done on all you know your success your journey is amazing it's inspiring for me so congratulations on what you've achieved and I really appreciate you having me as a guest on your lovely podcast thank you

55:15fall is all about cozy comforts but when you're prioritizing your health it's easy to feel like you're missing out with hero bread you can enjoy all your fall favorites because they're made with hero bread sliced bread loaves tortillas bagels dinner rolls and more try their all-new hero noodles with 12 grams of protein and just 80 calories. You won't believe Hero Bread's options have 0 to 5 grams net carbs and are high fiber from the taste and texture. They've even got small batch drops of indulgent favorites like the popular Hero Croissant. And right now, Hero Bread is offering 10 % off your order.

55:48Go to Hero.co and use code FALL25 at checkout. That's FALL25 at H-E-R-O dot C-O. All figures are per serving of Hero Bread. Contains 2 to 18 See the product nutrition panels on Hero.co for more information.

56:26Wix.com. Let's be honest. Most HR platforms aren't exactly a joy to use. Deals different. It's AI native, keeps you compliant, and grows with your team, whether you're five people or 50 ,000. HR, IT, and payroll on one platform that just works. See for yourself at deel.com slash serious.