Ep. 116 How To Launch & Grow A Business In 3 Months: Cass DiMicco On The Power Of Mindset & Cold Emails

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1:31What is up and welcome to Working Hard Hardly Working. Today I'm joined by Cass D 'Amico. Not only is Cass D 'Amico a good friend, she is also one of the most stylish women online. I followed her for a long time because of that but she is also founder of one of my favourite ever jewellery brands, Aurium. A brand that is absolutely loved by style icons like Ashley Green and Emily Ratajkowski. Cass began her career as a fashion buyer for one of America's oldest department stores. She talks in this episode about how she really, really pushed within that job to learn as much as possible, but also to progress as far as possible.

2:04While she was there, she started spending her free time posting her outfits online. And fast forward over a decade later, she's very much renowned and one of my personal faves for her incredible style, which really feeds into the brand she's built at Aurium too. But in Tremé fashion, this episode is very much just a conversation with two people who needed to have a chat. We cover everything from building Aurium to relationships to thinking of starting a family at the stage where you feel like it couldn't fit into your life at all.

2:39Before we get into the podcast, if you could just go and rate this on whichever podcast app you are listening to this on, it makes a huge difference to the podcast and the types of incredible conversations we're able to have, the types of guests we're able to get on. So no, it's probably something that you don't think about. But if you could just go rate it now or follow it, it makes a huge difference. Thank you so much.

3:03Thank you so much for joining me. Thanks for having me. I'm so excited. I feel like we need to stay on track because I feel like we can have a whole conversation where it's just like they're listening to our entire dinner, like really having a lot to chat about, I feel like because we haven't been able to properly do this before. But what I always start with is asking whether you feel like at the moment you're more working hard or hardly working. Definitely working hard. Without a doubt. Always. I think I'm still in hustle mode. And I feel like I, I don't know, I'm proud of that. It makes me proud.

3:38I think I've definitely learned kind of how to balance and give myself tiny little breaks throughout the day. But the most part, I'm definitely working very hard. I feel like I don't have kids. So that's also my mentality. I'm like, I don't have kids yet. So I need to just go all in while I can. And is that something that you like consciously think about? Like you're generally like, this is my time to really like lean in and work as much as possible. Yes, exactly. I feel like I, I'm also just do love what I do. And I feel like I'm in such a good place mentally with being an entrepreneur and have all my why behind why I do everything.

4:14and I feel very aligned and I just want to like go and go for it. We probably don't speak enough about because we obviously speak so much about how you've got to make sure you don't fall into the pit of like working all the time and burning yourself out and all of that. But I also think that we probably don't speak enough about how incredible it is to be in a position where you genuinely love what you do and you feel fulfilled every day. Yeah, exactly. I feel like growing up, my mom actually ingrained in my head all the time, figure out what you love, figure out your passion and find a way to get paid for it.

4:47And I think that's actually really has turned out to what my life is. It's pretty crazy. I feel like I've designed my life to be exactly what I want it to be. And I really also try to take moments to step back and figure out the parts of running a business that I love the most and making sure that I'm continuing to do those. Because I think that also just translates in everything you do, you're obviously going to be able to work harder and not feel burnt out when you feel fulfilled and you feel like you're doing exactly what you're meant to do. And I feel when I feel like I'm doing what I do the best out of all the things you can do as an entrepreneur, I feel like there's definitely some things that I'm not the best at or that I feel like maybe someone else should be handling or could be handling, but I hold on to the things that bring me a lot of joy still.

5:30Yeah, I think that's such a good thing to talk about. Because I think that the second I started hiring people was the second And I thought that I shouldn't be doing any of the fun stuff because I was like, oh, you know, I've got to do this and I've got to run this business and I've got to make sure that like it's all, you know, everything's going how it needs to go. And so it was almost like this kind of view that I had to be doing the worst parts of it to feel legitimized in my running of a business. And I want to come on to speak about all of that and the journey with Oriam and your kind of day to day.

5:58I'd love to hear first, though, especially after you've just talked about kind of how your mom really ingrained that that view in you. I'd love to hear a little bit of context on like, where does Cass come from? What was her life like? What are the biggest influences on you that you had at the beginning of your life? So I definitely feel like I've always been someone that had so much love for fashion. And I used to take classes at FIT when I was in high school. My dream was to become a buyer. That was my dream for many years. And it took me a while to let go of that dream. and I kind of started my career off as an assistant buyer and I loved it.

6:35I worked for a big department store and I learned so much and I feel like I really excelled in that role. And then I was kind of just brought on to a team to do some private label and product development for the store. And it did amazing. And I was quite young and I think I just realized that I was going to hit a ceiling. Like I felt like I wasn't getting the recognition of what I was designing and the things that I was doing and how hard I was working, how late I was working. I just realized I had a little bit of a ceiling and my dad is also an entrepreneur. So I feel like I grew up kind of seeing that in him and obviously we'll get into this, but now my husband works with me and he's also an entrepreneur and it's actually been really cool to see his side of the family has all become like entrepreneurs.

7:20Now, a lot of the kids, like his sister, his sister's husband, they've all now like started on this journey and they've been very inspired by seeing us do it. So I think that's really cool. I think in the beginning, I feel like I used to have such a strong connection to wanting to encourage women to not be afraid to start something. And I think I talked to so many girls that are like, Oh, one day I want to start this or one day I want to do this. And I'm like, no, now you have to do it. Now you have to go for it and go right into it and not think and be delusional and just get right into it and like believe in yourself.

7:55I love that. I love, I really strongly believe in the idea of being intentionally delusional. It's funny because there's so much information out there online now. And I think you can almost hold yourself back by consuming too much of it because one of the best things that I had when going and starting a business was my naivety. Like the fact that I knew nothing and if I had known half the shit comes at me every day, I would have been like, this sounds like a terrible job. Like the kind of effort to reward ratio feels all the way off. And that naivety was actually exactly what, I don't know, I'd like have these like balls out of nowhere that I'd be like, we're going to do this and we're going to do this.

8:29And I don't mind that that order could bankrupt the whole business because that's the, you know, it's an amazing design and all of that. And you have to have that kind of like complete delusion that it's going to work because statistically, you know, there are a lot of very bleak statistics around entrepreneurship, but there are also amazing, amazing success stories and so many people doing all of these incredible things. And I think that we can almost procrastinate too much by using information online. And I really love you kind of saying, if you have the idea, do it now, or at least start exploring it now.

9:02And I think that ties in really well to what you were saying as well about like, recognizing that especially before you have kids, if you want to have kids, like that is It's an advantage that you're not necessarily going to feel like you ever have the ability to take the risk to do once you have more responsibilities and dependence and all of that. And I think that we spend so much time in our 20s especially, but 20s and 30s, almost feeling like we can't take risks because we're just starting. And actually, it's like completely the opposite. It's like, how can you take as many risks as possible that are obviously considered risks and it's not going to like blow everything up in flames.

9:39But usually at that time, there's not much to blow up in flames. Yeah, exactly. It's like, I feel like you have to think about, okay, what's the worst thing that can happen? If you're in your 20s, 30s, you know, you lose some money or whatever ends up happening. But I think you, the experience that you get from taking that risk is so important. And I feel like something I've learned so recently is so many entrepreneurs are on their like third, fourth business. I mean, you included like the, you need that failure and experience of things going wrong to, you know, get yourself to the next level.

10:13I think it's really important to kind of make mistakes and take risks. And I feel like even with Orium, I always used to say, oh, I eventually want to have, you know, a full lifestyle brand and grow it to be so big. And we were kind of doing jewelry for like quite a few years before we took the leap into other categories. And that was a big, scary moment for us, but it was a game changer for us to finally take that risk. Cause I feel like once I was getting in my late twenties, I wasn't taking my own advice. Like I was like, okay, one day I'll launch into new categories or one day I'll do this.

10:47I think we all say that to ourselves. And once I actually took that risk, I feel like I really reaped the rewards of all of it. It's pretty crazy. And we started Orium from idea to launching it in around three months. It was pretty crazy. No way. Yeah. No way. That's insane. I want to very much come on to speak about that. I want to first talk about the fact that you obviously had this dream to be a fashion buyer and you were able to, I guess, get your foot in the door with that early on in your career. Obviously, that turned out not to be your dream. But I do think we probably don't speak enough about how hard it is to let go of what we originally thought success looked like to us.

11:25So can you talk to me a little bit about where that dream came from and the point that you started realizing that maybe like maybe the life I thought was like ultimate success for myself actually isn't a life I want at all. Yeah I think it was kind of just I always loved fashion and then I always was really good at math which sounds kind of random but that buying really merges the two together so I was like okay this is perfect for me and I really love doing that and I think once I started doing content creation full-time in a way I looked at how I was doing everything as a buyer, like which brands I was representing and which brands I was posting about and sharing, this is a cool new brand.

12:01I still do that to this day. I still feel like how I approach a lot of things is almost a buyer mentality. But I think that kind of letting go of that dream, like I remember the day that I quit my job to just do content creation full time. I was like, I was so confident and so excited to just get started. I had like not a worry in the world. I recently had a friend who did the same thing. And I was like, you cannot even waste a single thought on what if this, oh, I can always go back. I can always go that, that those thoughts never even went through my head. I was like, I was doing this on the side as a side hustle.

12:36Let's go. Like, let's see me go for this full time and see what I can achieve. I feel like it really helped me do the full confidence. And even right before we started Oriam, my boyfriend at the time was very much like, I know you really wanted to start a brand. You know, when do you want to do it? And I had around 100 ,000 followers at the time, which is an amazing community. But I felt at the time, oh, I think I need to be at a million to maybe be able to start this brand. And he was the one that very much was like, if not now, when? Like, let's go for it. Let's do it. And let's just get right into it and launch and adjust and figure everything out.

13:14I love that. And I feel like when you were quitting that job and going full time. I've started thinking a lot about like negotiation and the negotiation we have with ourselves. And like something that I've set as a goal at the moment is to basically negotiate with myself less. And that sounds like kind of what you did when you were quitting this job. And I think that makes you put so much more into something because you're instantly like, okay, this is my one option. So it's got to work. Yeah, exactly. I think something that I think back on to the time, even when right before we started Orium, my now husband and I, we went through this whole life transformation together where we were like, okay, I really, let's get our shit together.

13:54We were kind of partying all the time. We didn't feel good about ourselves. We didn't, we weren't proud of the place that we were in. And we started our journey by just being like, okay, we're going to get really into fitness. We started waking up all the time and going to the gym and journaling and listening to podcasts and everything kind of all at once. And I think it kind of leveled us up to this point where it gave me us the confidence to be like, let's start a brand and it's going to be successful. I think, I feel like we all kind of struggle with our confidence a bit, especially me. Like I definitely do that where I'm, you know, give myself any excuse not to make those decisions.

14:31But then when you do make those decisions to make the right choices for yourself and get up in the morning and work out and, you know, start your morning with gratitude, all the little things that really help you, you know, with your mindset and give you the confidence, it really levels you up to this different frequency and this different you. And then that's when I feel like all the opportunities just come your way. I think I've tried to just keep like growing as a person and keep developing my mindset and keep just every day trying to be better as best I can. And I feel like all of a sudden you look back and five years ago, I was like, whoa, I was a completely different person.

15:11And it's, it's crazy what you're able to now handle. I think so much of entrepreneurship is mindset. Literally, I feel like that's half of the work that I do is, you know, working on the business. And the other half is working on my mindset to be able to handle all the things that come our way and all the challenges and all the comparison and everything that we all deal with. And I think that's helped me so much with just leveling up. Yeah, I completely agree. And it's so funny because you're the second person to say pretty explicitly on this podcast, like my work started doing 10 times better when I became a better person.

15:44Like when I became the person that I felt inspired by and the person that I felt stuck to their goals and stuck to their promises and all of these different things. Can you talk to me about, I guess, realizing that you were in a position that you didn't necessarily want to be in and what that transformation looked like from then to, I guess, where you are now in terms of daily habits, mindset, all of those different things? Yeah, I think we were just kind of waking up late, sleeping in, going out. Sunday, we were just rotting. I mean, I still sometimes rot, but I'm not as hungover and I'm not kind of, it's a different level.

16:19And I think I think that's also just something that's so important with a relationship in general is wanting to go down the same path of growth. I feel like we're both so obsessed with self-development and we just didn't feel good. I didn't feel good worth where I was at. I felt like I was had more potential in me. I think that's a big thing is if you're not loving where you're at, it's probably because you're capable of so much more. So make sure you believe in yourself and kind of like take those steps. A lot of us lack confidence because we're not genuinely convinced that we are the type of person we want to be.

16:52And I think that that's quite natural. I think that in different walks of life and going through, you know, leaving school or, you know, if you go to college or university or kind of your first job, whatever it might be. There is so much importance in having a good time and having fun and, you know, like meeting new people and going out and all of this. And I definitely don't ever think that that should be demonized. But what I do think at the same time is I think that a lot of us fall into a cycle of basically lack of confidence for a reason. Like we haven't proven to ourselves that we can do anything that we set our mind to.

17:24And I think that's a really important step to suddenly start taking. Because when you start setting out goals, no matter whether they're gym related or work related or just mindset related or friend related, when you set yourself something and you don't stick to that, that's a real kick to your confidence. because you basically just told yourself, yeah, no, you're right. I'm going to set out to do something and I'm not going to do it. And I'm going to, you know, lack the discipline and I'm going to lack the kind of commitment and all of that. And that's, that hits our confidence and hits our self-worth.

17:57And I think, you know, self-worth should always be maintained. You should always believe you're worthy of things and all of that. But I actually do think that we need to build our self-confidence pretty intentionally. Yeah. I think confidence, I feel like, especially as women, I think it's something we all kind of struggle with because it's so easy to compare yourself to other people and think that that's what's hurting your confidence. But the reality is your confidence is coming from you and the promises you're making to yourself. And I also think something I've learned along the way is when you have that confidence that you're making certain choices, you feel like you deserve to take certain things in life.

18:34Like I think so many of us can be kind of timid and be like, oh, maybe I won't be this huge entrepreneur or this huge successful person or whatever it is, because I feel like, you know, imposter syndrome. And I maybe don't deserve to grab that from the world. But I think that once you also work on your competence, you take the things that you think you deserve. Like, I feel like I'm finally in a place where I'm like, I work so hard. I deserve success. And that's a good feeling because I think you only take from the world as much as you feel like you deserve. Yeah, that's such a good point. And I also think that it's us having convinced ourselves that we can do hard things that we said we were going to do is the thing you fall back on when maybe, I don't know, you feel like someone else feels like you don't deserve something or someone says something online or whatever it might be.

19:20The thing you fall back on is the fact that you have shown yourself every day that you absolutely do deserve that. Like I would say my hardest time that I had in business, that was probably the biggest confidence building time because even though the business was an absolute shit show and like could not have been worse in that time the grit that I went through that time with and the determination and the like real resilience coming out of that you're so right I'm like I know exactly what I deserve no one could tell me shit about like what I should be getting what I shouldn't be getting like sure I won't get you know everything that I'm working for and all of this but actually I know and you cannot change my mind about the fact that I deserve good things and I know that I deserve good things because I have done X, Y, Z that I said I was going to do and actually did.

20:04Exactly. And it's like celebrating those little wins. And it's like the advice you would give to a friend if they were dating like a toxic guy would be, you know, it's not about what he says. It's about his actions. And it kind of applies to yourself. That's immediately what I thought of. It's not about just what I tell myself that I'm so great and I work so hard. I could tell myself that over and over if I'm just sitting on the couch. But I think if you actually prove your to yourself with the actions that's like a big difference yeah no I completely I honestly couldn't agree more so tell me about the beginning of your I guess your Instagram page and like the start of doing doing the influencer thing so I was doing kind of content creation and just I was living in New York City at the time I was shooting my outfits on the weekends with a full-time job and the main reason why I even started doing it was because I really wanted a cooler, more fashion forward job in fashion.

20:56So I wanted to work with, you know, for, I wanted to be a buyer for either shop up or revolve intermix at the time, which is just so crazy in 360. Cause now seeing my brand in those places is just wild, but I really started it as like a digital resume. I had no connections in fashion and I couldn't even get my foot into the door to work for these more fashion forward companies. So I was like, okay, I'm going to create almost like a digital resume to show my taste level. And that's how it all started. It just kind of posted my outfits online as a way to when I sent my resume in, I could also attach my blog, you know, and after doing it on the side for about a year or two, it started to really take off and I was getting paid by brands and I was getting invited on trips and all these unbelievable opportunities.

21:44And as the same time that was happening, so much exciting things at work, I was feeling so stifled. I was feeling like I wanted to be able to maybe one day launch my own brand. And I know that if I built up my personal brand, I would one day be able to do that. I was seeing so much success at work that I was like, I feel like one day I could do this on my own because I was really a part of so much of building a brand. And then one day I was just making more from partnerships than I was at my job. And I made the decision to quit. And it was a pretty crazy feeling. I still look back at that time and I'm like really proud of myself for like making that move and then it was around two years later that Orium started I think there's really this I don't know I think it's a bit misguided this whole if you're in your job and you feel like you're not reaching your full potential then pull back like do less and kind of like start to sit back a little bit I think that like what you've demonstrated there is you were really kind of really trying to push and see like what is the furthest I can get to in this job.

22:49What happened is that you were, you pushed and you really got good at your job and you were able to translate that to what you were doing online, but then you were also able to, you know, other opportunities came along. Understandably, people obviously can be quite disenchanted with the idea of like what your employer wants from you. And sometimes it's not a fit. Like sometimes as with you, you were working really hard and it ended up not being a fit. But if you'd been working really hard and then decided to work less hard just because your workplace wasn't quite valuing you or there wasn't the progression you wanted you never would have been able to go full-time because you wouldn't have been leaning into all of these different things that would essentially advance you and I don't know I always like see these comments like just do the bare minimum and all of this and it's like if you I promise you in any situation if you're doing the bare minimum you will get the bare minimum yeah you get out what you put in I also think something that I don't hear people talk enough about is the world is smaller than you think, right?

23:43Like I was working a corporate fashion job, you know, maybe at the time, if I would have had this attitude of, I'm never going to work with any of these people again, it doesn't matter. I'm going to just start slacking off. No, those people down the line have maybe given me a partnership or maybe they can help connect me to this person. Like your network is everything. And you don't ever want to leave a bad taste in being someone that was not amazing to work with. Like there's so much power in leaving a lasting impression on people on working hard. And I also think there was times that I hated my managers and bosses.

24:16But then when I look back on that, those are the things that now that I'm a manager and a boss, I know what not to do. That experience gave me the, you know, knowledge of how to not treat people or how to not manage certain people. And I think it ends up coming back into your life that everything is an experience and everything should be taken as a learning experience. And you don't ever want to be leaving a bad impression with people you're working with. You're going to end up, you know, seeing them at some point or working with them at some point. No, I honestly could not agree with that more.

24:49And I think it is probably one of the downfalls of like, there are so many great things of seeing so many different people's work online. I feel like that those types of things are maybe some of the downfalls where it's like, you can pick up some really poor advice as well, in terms of, you know, how much you should be doing or what your expectations should be. And I think that unlike, you know, 20 years ago, where you'd hear that from, you'd hear advice from colleagues or you'd hear advice from mentors or parents or whatever, and they'd just be like, do this, do this, do this. If you had one piece of bad advice, it's one piece of bad advice.

25:21I think sometimes now one piece of bad advice can really like proliferate the internet. And then you're suddenly like, oh God, no, I really would not recommend you doing that. Like that is crazy to me. But I want to talk about launching Oriam. when did the idea come about yeah so it came into a time in my life when I was entering my late 20s I really didn't have a super high income but I feel like I was in New York in the social scene and I felt really insecure that I was meeting all these people that like came from money and were super successful and I felt almost like a little out of place and I wanted to kind of just rejig my wardrobe, do like a whole refresh.

26:01I wanted to stop wearing trends and all of these like super micro trendy pieces. And I was like, okay, I really want to just have this more sophisticated, classy, timeless look. And I kind of just did a whole wardrobe rehaul. And then I kind of started to feel like I looked a little boring, like I was wearing trousers and, you know, a plain top. And I was like, okay, how can I make this look better? This is so funny, just quickly so to interrupt but I it's so funny because I did about like two months of like old money dressing and I literally would look at myself every day and I'd be like I look so boring exactly like this is so not me you know it's like I like it and I get it but I'm literally like oh like this isn't me like I don't feel like me yeah and I think that I feel like you need to also kind of work into what fits your personality but I was like okay I still love to have a little bit of a bold moment.

26:55And I was on a tight budget, I really could only afford going to Zara for my clothes, but I really wanted to look more elevated. And at the time, I was like, Okay, I feel like accessories are what really sets your look apart from, you know, looking like your whole outfit is from Zara or looking a bit more elevated. And that's kind of how the whole idea for the brand was born. Like our entire tagline is the art of accessorizing, just dress simply let your accessories do the talking. I think you can really show your personality when it comes to accessories. And I also think there's a big difference between accessories that are high quality and not, I think when it comes to leathers and hardwares, it really makes a difference.

27:33And I feel like this, it was like my little cheat code to when I was out and about New York, in New York city, looking more expensive and like, you know, kind of putting on this other persona of someone who, you know, had a bigger budget at the time. Yeah, no, I love that. And I think that what I really, really love about the brand, I've, I've, I think I actually found the brand before I found you, which is as a brand owner, always what I want to hear. Like as someone with a social media following, I'm like confident. That's like the biggest compliment, I think. But what I love so much about it is that it really does have this kind of North Star concept around it.

28:10Like, as you said you were doing jewelry for like two years was it before you even went into other categories but the concept has been really around like this elevation the art of accessorizing and I think that a lot of us when starting businesses or looking at businesses we are so clear on our first product that we make the business quite narrow like we're pretty you know this is what we do and this is the one product we make rather than you know I just want to make people be able to accessorize easier or I want them to feel elevated without having to buy a new wardrobe or like any of these things.

28:43And actually, I think you've done that so well in the way you've been able to keep that open, but not too open. It's not like, you know, a brand for everyone everywhere, but it's open enough that you've allowed yourself space to be able to kind of expand beyond that. Was there a point that you realized that this business was more around this entire art of accessorizing rather than just jewelry? I think I always knew I didn't want to just pigeonhole myself into jewelry. But like I was saying earlier, I felt like limited, I was kind of hesitating. And I think the idea kind of started when I was buying designer belts, and I was wearing them almost every day.

29:25And then I was like, okay, why did I just spend like$700 dollars on the row belts. Like I know for a fact, I can go put in the work to go source this from Italy and deliver it to people at a more, you know, premium price point versus a luxury price point. So I think it came from me just noticing a gap in the market. I felt like there was, I love dressing that way. Like Orium is such a expression of me and my personal style and my personal taste. And it was just how I was dressing where I felt like, okay, I think I can deliver a luxury product for sunglasses, for belts, and people will really resonate with that because it's a need.

30:08And I'm noticing that every time I put on a designer belt, it's turning my look up a notch. And I was like, this is the whole ethos of the brand. So like, let's obviously do these categories. And I think for us, it's been how much focus and energy we put into the quality of the products is, I think, really special. Like I'm completely handling all production, all design directly with a manufacturer literally by myself. And I take so much pride in that. And I think so many people, I think, don't realize from like a customer standpoint, how behind the scenes, there's so many either influencer brands or public figure brands, or even just people getting started and how they actually have a lot of people behind the scenes, or even someone they're going 50-50 with on the business, who's kind of setting up all the production for them.

30:57And I've learned that the fact that we've been able to go like right from the source, you know, we're like on WhatsApp with our Italian belt manufacturer, like all day long, she's our best friend. And we've literally changed her life in the last year hasn't even been a year. And now I feel like I'm able to deliver something so special. That's like, just the best quality and something that I'm so proud of. So let's talk about something like finding manufacturers, because I there are so many different types of businesses and there are so many different ways to do the exact same kind of business obviously you've you've said that how it's really important to you to work directly with manufacturers and to be to have that relationship and to be making things that aren't copies of other things and like I think especially within the jewelry space you can tell when someone has a direct relationship with a manufacturer because there's so much duplication outside of that so usually you'll see a good few months of this new design with a brand that It clearly works directly with the manufacturer.

31:55And then you'll see that design proliferate among the industry and like very cheap additions. What made you decide, though, to have that direct relationship? Because I can also imagine on the other side of that, you can do things a lot cheaper. You can do things without having to necessarily put in the legwork for design. And I have no doubt based on your style and like your kind of fashion sense in general, I have no doubt that it would still be an amazing business. I don't think it would be as amazing as Orium is now. But why did you make that decision to, I guess, do it probably the harder way rather than what would still have been a profitable and exciting business probably anyway?

32:37The honest answer was that we really didn't have the access. I really didn't have any of the connections. Matt comes from finance. I worked in fashion previously, but there wasn't anyone I knew to go to to produce anything. Like we literally didn't have any other choice. and I'm so glad I didn't hesitate to wait around for someone to come my way to like hand me a connection. We literally built an eight figure business on Google, phone calls, cold emails, just like constantly hammering people to answer us. And we're like so proud of that. I'm so happy I did it that way because I think it's taught us, you know, now when someone tries to come in and be like, oh, we can help you do this or do that.

33:20We're like, no, we're gonna just do it ourselves. and have it completely in my control and have it completely be exactly what I want it to be at the exact quality that I want it to be. And I think it's, I think that's one of the tough things about business. And obviously we're a smaller brand. We're just getting started. Like even the earrings you're wearing, like it's really interesting to see like the life cycle of a product, like those earrings, when we first launched them, they were so kind of outside the norm. They didn't even sell the first time we kind of launched them. It took like two, three months.

33:52And then all of a sudden they were a bestseller. And then all of a sudden, you know, a few months down the line, every single jewelry brand around the world had their version of them. And I was like, that is so annoying. But at the same time, it gave me the confidence to realize that what we're doing is right. And even our manufacturer, it's so interesting to hear what goes on behind the scenes. He was like, do you know that your products are the you're the only brand we work with that actually makes their products out of what you put on the website. I was like, Oh, so you mean we're the only brand that's honest.

34:26What a concept. That's wild. Wild. And he works with a lot of very large, well-known brands. And he says, everyone just lies about what, how much it's plated with, what it's made out of all of these things. There's so much like business practices, I will call it that you can do to kind of like cut corners along the way as you're growing. And I think I just take way too much pride in what we're making. And I feel such a personal connection to it that I could never sleep at night if I was lying to people about things and if I was not delivering on what I was said I was doing. And I think it's just been so interesting.

35:03I so strongly believe that the best marketing you can possibly do is your product. Like I believe that to my absolute core, because in my mind, and I think even from the very start of Tala, for example. Especially if you have a platform, that's amazing and a huge advantage. At the same time, you need to operate at a height, at a level, at a quantity of a business that's been going for a few years, literally from the first time you launched. So what is often forgotten with product business is that you really can't cut corners that aren't going to come back to you. For every customer you require, if that customer becomes a repeat customer, that is the most valuable you can make anything.

35:43But you are never going to have a repeat customer if your product is shit. Like you just aren't. I don't know. I always, always believe that every ounce of care that you put into creating your product will come back to you in things like repeat custom and loyalty. Like I want someone to buy Tala and think, oh my God, I can't believe that it feels that nice. Like I never would have known that from online or I can't believe that it makes me look that good or it feels so like unabrasive on my skin or like any of those things. Like I want them to feel that and I want them to know every single time that they see even our best piece of marketing, that it doesn't even touch the sides of how good that product is because the product is like top, top, top of our priority list.

36:25Yeah, exactly. I feel like I can even hear that in your voice when we were talking yesterday. I think I'm kind of the same way. And I really appreciate that because I don't always like connect with people on that because I think even something I had to talk to my therapist about was she was like, why do you not feel like a founder? Cause she was like, I can feel that you're not like stepping into your full identity as a business owner and founder. And I was like, I feel like it's because all I care about is the product and the design and bringing it to life and the whole creative side of everything.

36:57And she's like, that's what being a founder is. Like, I think it's because maybe we haven't like done any rounds of raising or we haven't, you know, scaled to a hundred million, like crazy fast or anything, you know, those like crazy things that make you feel like, Oh, that's a business owner. Like, I don't even feel like I'm like a business owner, quote unquote. I really just feel like I'm like this artist following my passion and creating beautiful things. And I think that's where all my fulfillment comes from. Like, and I think repeat customers is so important. Like we have the same people that like when I sometimes check people's names on Shopify and it's like 36 orders, I'm like, yes, I love you.

37:39Like we have a lot of people that own like everything we've made. It's pretty wild. And that just makes me feel so good. And I think like trust is everything with your audience as a content creator and as a brand founder. I think you really need that person to trust that what they're spending on is going to be worth it. Like our average order value is$350. Like that's quite high. And if someone is spending that amount of money on a product, they better get it and be like, whoa. and we like our even our best selling bell is a$450 belt that's our number one selling bell and that is not an easy thing to accomplish and an easy price point to get people to trust you especially as a quote-unquote I don't even think we're an influencer brand but you know as a founder who is also a content creator I almost think people give you less grace because they want to like I don't know they just assume maybe you have bad intentions and I think that's what helps keep me going is like at the root of everything is I have the best intentions for everything I'm doing.

38:45And I'm like genuinely just trying to make an amazing product for the people that are trusting me to spend their money on our stuff. So how have you balanced, I guess, having this level of control around something like designing the product? And as you say, a lot of the creative that goes behind the entire business. How have you managed to balance that control that you've needed to have, whilst also understanding that you need to delegate some things to be able to actually run the business and probably not run yourself into the ground. Yeah, it's definitely something I'm still working on. I think I tried it.

39:17I'm trying to just like identify the things that are very unique to me of like what only what I can do and and kind of try to filter out the rest of the things that maybe I can let other people kind of take control of. I think I'm also really lucky that I work with my husband. We can talk about work all the time. My husband is like extremely hardworking. Like we're both on the same page. So I feel like together, we're just kind of like a force and we really like balance each other out with certain things. Like he's definitely handling a lot of, of the more like business side of things, operation side of things.

39:54He's also very creative, but we just kind of divide and conquer. And we've learned to kind of really both stay not stay in our own lane because we do a lot together, but just kind of like make sure we're dividing and conquering. And, you know, we have a like small but mighty team. And like we get on a phone call every day at 10am. And we have like an exciting what we're going to get done for the day. Everyone is remote, which I think is really interesting. I feel like that has actually helped me a lot. Like I know we were talking kind about what does success feel like to you? So for Matt and I, we both, you know, used to have corporate jobs.

40:29And I'm like, I don't know if my path is necessarily going to be having everyone report to an office all day, every day, five days a week. I'm not, I'm like still kind of figuring out if that's the vision of where we see everything going. But I feel like there is a beauty to being just like in with myself during the day to be able to just get everything done. I get distracted really easily. So I feel like if I had my team with me, I would want to like chit chat with them all day long. I know I literally took myself in the corner, but with me, because I do think that like the best way we've been able to really like consolidate what the brand is and the direction we're going and to keep those conversations that you wouldn't necessarily have if you're like over the phone has been being in person.

41:13At the same time, I genuinely believe a lot of people are more productive from home. I think it's also a little unique for us in the sense that, you know, Matt and I are kind of like the visionaries together steering the ship. So when we need to have those conversations, it's typically in Miami going for a walk together for an hour and like all the ideas are just kind of flowing and then we're just kind of sharing them with the team. And we do also try to like do in-person team things and all of that. But I think it's something that we're trying to learn to navigate and figure out what we want for the future and what kind of what would be make us feel the happiest because I don't think I necessarily want to just like follow the path just to follow that's what the path is okay let's get an office everyone report here like I think we just want to like make up our own rules and figure out like what works best for us and you know maybe a year from now I'll be sitting in an office so you really never know but for now we're just kind of like trying to figure it out so tell me about working with your husband because you started the business when he was your fiance is that right he was my boyfriend at the time.

42:14That's a risk. I know. Like obviously it's paid off, but that is a, that's a, that's risky business. Yeah. We had lived together and we just knew we would make kind of like the dream team together. He used to work in finance. He was a trader. I mean, the fashion, more creative side of things. And we were like, okay, I feel like if we started something together, it would do so well. And yeah, I think that we really compliment each other in the sense that we like really push each other. I am very big on I don't want like, yes, people around me. Like I'm like, that is actually the most annoying thing to me.

42:50I'm like, tell me what I'm doing wrong as a boss, as a wife, as a friend, like, tell me how I can improve. I'm all ears. And like, I don't care if you think you're going to insult me, like I would rather know I don't want to be just yes to death. And I think, you know, dating Matt, who is definitely a little bit more type A, a little bit more intense, much different than me. He really was like, you know, getting me in shape and making me realize how hard I was going to have to work in order to get to the place that I wanted to get to. And I think just kind of pushing each other. And it's also been really nice to have it be our shared thing together.

43:27Like we're really like growing this and building this together. And it's given us this foundation that I think is just unbreakable as a couple because I think we're growing together, sharing this experience together. And I feel like if it was just my thing and I was talking to him about it all the time or if or if it was vice versa, maybe I would start to kind of get annoyed. But I also think it's helped us grow so fast is because we've been able to just work on it and talk about it all day, every day. Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense. And I can imagine that it's a real like boot camp in your relationship there must have been a lot of big learning curves while working together especially going from like boyfriend to fiance to husband while you're also dealing with like shit going through the business or you know a really good time and then a really bad time like all of these different things I can imagine like you've got to be strong oh yeah it's a roller coaster especially if you're I mean fundraising or bootstrapped either way like a book going through running a bootstrapped company together is nothing can break us apart at this point.

44:28I feel like because we just kind of have like learned and grown together. And I think we've just keep learning. Yeah, I really like. The market's uncertain. Revenue's tied and hiring on hold. That's why results driven companies are using Upwork to keep work moving. Go to Upwork.com today and start hiring proven freelance talent fast. No bulky overhead. No rigid long-term contracts. Just the right expert, right when you need them. Work smarter and faster with Upwork. Go to Upwork.com now and find your freelance expert. That's U-P-W-O-R-K dot com. Post a job for free and get started today. Is it time to reimagine your future?

45:12The right business skills may make a difference in your career. At Capella University, we offer a relevant education that's designed to focus on what you need to know in the business world. We'll teach professional skills to help you pursue your goals, like business management, strategic planning, and effective communication. And you can apply these skills right away. A different future is closer than you think with Capella University. Learn more at capella.edu. Did you know that parents rank financial literacy as the number one most difficult life skill to teach? Meet Greenlight, the debit card and money app for families.

45:50With Greenlight, you can set up chores, automate allowance, and keep an eye on your kids' spending with real-time notifications. Kids learn to earn, save, and spend wisely. And parents can rest easy knowing their kids are learning about money with guardrails in place. Sign up for Greenlight today at greenlight.com slash podcast. And obviously you say that the business was kind of very much built on like Google and cold emails. For someone who's starting a business now, a product business, what would you recommend they do if, you know, they're coming into the space, they have zero connection to it, they have zero, I guess, ability to ask people?

46:27How would you recommend they do something like finding manufacturers? You honestly can just Google it. Like, I remember even when we first started Orium, I was running around New York City, getting samples made by manufacturers in New York. Like for the first year or so, everything was made in the US. And I think you have to also realize that maybe your first manufacturer isn't gonna be your lifetime manufacturer and be okay with that. I think in the very beginning when you have really small minimums and you need to be able to do like just smaller runs of things, because like we started with the business with around like$10 ,000.

47:03We really didn't have that much money and we scaled it to seven figures the first year. It was pretty insane. That's incredible. And I think you need to just kind of take those risks. Like I feel like our product is definitely so much better now, but that's also because as we continue to grow and our minimums got bigger, we were able to find those other people and it's literally just Googling. Maybe figure out like where you want something manufactured and Google, you know, Italian manufacturer, like just nonstop emailing people. you're going to have to email a lot of people to get an answer. I feel like I'm constant.

47:39I spend hours just looking up who makes the rose. Like I like, yeah, I really tried to figure out also maybe seeing what other brands they do is really helpful. That helps with trust. But I think a lot of it is just realizing you might not get the best one off the bat. And eventually you'll get more connections. Like one of our jewelry manufacturers reached out to us, but that was once we were a tiny bit bigger. So I think once you could just kind of start and get the process moving, you'll start to get more opportunities as you keep growing. And I think that goes for all different areas of business as well.

48:15I think that, again, it's one of those things that you can really stunt yourself by being so set on the end goal. Like an end goal is important and like a mission and a driving force that's so important. But if you are set on like the fact that like I want to launch this business and I want it to have 10 different pieces and I want them to come in these different colors and I want you to be able to select this this and this like I had such clear views when I started Tala and so many of them I literally like should have been told like or if I was talking to anyone about like them and welcoming kind of feedback I would have been told billion dollar companies can't often do that because of x y and z like as in and I would have been like no but I want to do this.

48:55Like I had this vision that I want, I didn't want to launch the website until you could select a size and see a model in that size. And it'd be like all of this. Anyway, we did our first ever launch and the website, there was so much data on the website that it literally glitched so badly and basically fucked up our whole like first three months. And this was because I was like, I want to be able to click on the size and like all of this. And it's like, that's great. Should we maybe just like start the business first? Like, should we maybe just start the business, see what people like, see what they don't like before we put like all of our money into doing this one like really niche thing that like is a great idea, but also really isn't going to be like the decider as to whether someone is or isn't going to buy.

49:30And like, maybe we could do that in a year or something like that. And I just like so didn't want to hear that because I was so convinced that I was, you know, that reinventing this industry required me to do everything that these literal billion dollar companies could not work out how to do with their finances. So I feel like, I don't know, I'm so big on the minimum viable product method. Like I believe so strongly that in a number of different ways, the large majority of the time when it comes to business, you need to start before you're ready. And like, if you don't look back on that first product and feel like all that first website or that first email and feel a little bit embarrassed, then you probably started too late because from the second you get information from your customers, you're learning and if you've say you started with 10 000 pounds or 10 000 sorry for the american listeners um so you started with 10 000 say you've spent like all 10 000 of those dollars on like this immaculate idea that you think is absolutely perfect all of these products and then if that doesn't work out like then you've got nowhere to go whereas like if you spend five six and it's maybe like not you're like i like it but i could criticize i could do a list of 100 things I don't like so much about it.

50:40It's like, perfect. That's a great place to start because you spending a thousand, two thousand, three thousand extra on getting from like 60 % of the way there to getting 100 % of the way there allows you no space to grow from that point. And I believe so strongly that like the second you get out to market, you are going to learn so much that you could not possibly imagine that you're even going to learn. And so you just have to get out to the market. Yeah, I feel like even I still operate that like that sometimes like just the other day, it was like Friday night. And it was I for like five hours straight as we were watching a movie, I was just switching all the product photography on our website for each product because I was like, don't love this one.

51:21I feel like this one could be better. I'm just swapping things around. And I'm like, Oh my god, I can't believe this was this photo was up for this product. And I'm mortified every day. Yeah, it's like one of my favorite hobbies. It's a problem. I'm not allowed on the website during the week because honestly like I was on my way here it's a completely different thing but I was on the shreddy app and like every single thing I was like and I like sent like five messages in a row about like all these different things and I'm like damn it I've done it again that's why I'm like let me just do this on a Friday night myself instead of being the annoying boss that's like telling someone to go do that I'm like let me just do exactly how I envision everything to go but I also think to your point I think that's where a lot of beautiful ideas are born.

52:04And when you're, you have no experience, you have like this just consumer view of starting your business. And I think that's how a lot of niche things about your business can be a differentiator is like trying to figure out the things that you wish you had as a consumer. No, I completely agree. And I just so strongly believe that you're not going to know half of the questions you're trying to answer for your customer until you're selling to that customer. Like until you've had your first 100 orders, you know nothing about your customer. So spending any more money on getting like marginally closer to what you think it is when that whole idea can be completely wrong is like, stop it, just get it out, like literally get it out.

52:42What would you say, though, the hardest part of Aurum's journey has been? I think that each year there's just different challenges that arise. And kind of what I was speaking to earlier, I think even me as a person, I've been able to slowly but surely over time, manage more and bigger difficulties over and over again. Like when I think about the first year and our biggest difficulties were me having to pack orders and me, I used to, we couldn't afford like quality control. So I would literally sit there for eight hours a day, like checking clasps on the weekends and make sure all the clasps worked perfectly fine.

53:20And now looking back on that, I'm like, that's not even that like stressful of a problem. And then I feel like becoming a manager and hiring was a really difficult learning curve for me. And then I feel like it was now we're at this point where we're like, do we raise, do we not raise having the cash to maybe execute some of the ideas or marketing things that you want to be able to execute? Or, you know, we're in a lot of wholesalers now. And they, when they send us like a huge order, we're like, this is amazing, but This is also scary because, you know, that's a lot of upfront calls for us. And I think all these like production issues, the amount of production issues we have.

53:58I know you talk about that all the time. It's so it's so standard, but it's so annoying. Like for us with sunglasses and we were going to launch in May and then it's July. And I'm like, it's the middle of the summer. Like, OK, great. Thank you so much. And do you have any like mindset things that when those bigger issues come along that you employ and like enable you to be able to go in with your day without like spiraling yeah I think I'm pretty good at it and I'm trying to pinpoint why I'm good at it so that when I have kids I can like implement it on them but I think that I'm good at kind of like staying calm I'm a pretty calm person my husband definitely gets like more anxious about things so I almost am like coaching as I'm like coaching him through it and like saying the right things that you're supposed to say it helps me know the right things that you're gonna say and I feel like we're just I'm always It's just like, it's okay.

54:45We're going to figure it out. After the 100th time of something going wrong, you just kind of get like numb to it is the honest answer. You kind of just are like, okay, this is normal. This is running a business. There will be fires all day, every day. And I think there's comfort in hearing that from other people and other big founders and all the things that constantly go wrong. Yeah. That's one of the things, the biggest piece of advice I give to founders is like find people that are either at your stage or one step ahead of you and have as much contact with them as possible because I think founders especially they know how hard it is so they're very open with their network their issues their like resolutions for problems well first of all we need to start texting each other yeah of course we will be opening this line of communication because I have a lot.

55:36Yeah, exactly. I think I've, I've noticed that too. I feel like other founders, I have, I have this problem where I don't, and I'm trying to work on it where I like, don't ask anyone for anything. And it's not a good quality to have. I I'm trying to work on it. Like, I feel like I would never just randomly text someone and like ask them for their advice, but people, I would love to give people advice. I would love, like, I think it's also just kind of like we can all help each other. I feel like entrepreneurs are so happy to give that, Hey, I ended up doing this or this like nine times out of 10, a lot of us are doing completely different products, but it all is like the same game.

56:13So it's so easy and helpful to kind of like, Oh, we downloaded this Shopify app for that. Or we, you know, there's so many little nuances that I think can change your business. Yeah, I completely agree. And also I would say that like, when I started off as an entrepreneur, I would definitely say I was in a very closed mindset and I was in a very competitive and comparative mindset. So I probably felt so insecure in the way that I was like, oh, we're not a good business yet. And we're not this yet. And I'm not a good enough manager yet. And all of these things that I didn't feel like I was in the appropriate place to help other people.

56:43But I also just felt kind of like insular, like I'll keep everything to myself. And as I've grown as an entrepreneur and as I've had, I guess, just like so many realizations that like we're so all in our own lane and just the fact that society pits women against each other does not mean that just because we're two female entrepreneurs, that means we're in direct competition for any reason. Like, you know, when you have to start like really proactively breaking down your own negative traits, that's what I did because I was so in my head about comparing myself to all of these different businesses that did the same thing and all of that to the point that I literally just forced myself.

57:20I was like, if you see them having a problem, you help them. Like, as in like you go out of your way and I will literally reply to people's stories now being like, yeah, like, so this is what we did with this. Or like, I had this issue and like, this is what I did or like whatever. And now I have such close relationships with people with almost exactly the same like product offering. And are either of our businesses doing worse? No. Like, are we all feeling a little bit better about it? Yes. Like I've had so many of these like wonderful conversations. And I do think it's pretty inherent in the fact that society, especially very much pits women against each other.

57:50So even if we're in the same like female entrepreneur box, then technically there's only space for like three female entrepreneurs in the world. So actually like now we can't be friends. And I think we all need to kind of internally break that down a little bit too. Yeah. I mean, I feel like you're giving me a therapy session right now because I feel like that's something that I can, I definitely struggle with sometimes is I never feel like someone else's success is taking away from mine, but then sometimes I'm like, Oh, what am I doing wrong? And that's not where I'm at. And it's so easy to go down that path.

58:21And I think you just kind of have to like stay, you know, blinders on down your own path. I think anytime I've tried to look at what other people were doing and implemented in my business, it never worked. Like whenever I'm just in the zone, just doing my thing is when we have the best ideas and do the best things and see success. And, and I think your point is so valid because I feel like we all are just trying to build something. And like, I think it's so much more exciting and fun when we can like support each other's businesses and grow together and like make the journey about being together versus like, otherwise it's so isolating.

58:58Yeah. And it is all based on this systemic issue because I do think, you know, we, we hear all of these, you know, stories like, okay, well like men call each other up and say like, yeah, come in on this deal. And like, you should do this. And like, I've met this person and they'd be a perfect business partner for you and all of that. And I do think women absolutely do that. I think where women don't do that as much is where they've essentially been told there is space for one of you. Like there's space for one of you at this table. So it's dog eat dog, because if you're not, if you're there, then someone else isn't there.

59:25And if someone else is there, then you're not there. And I think that it's such a false narrative in our heads. And I really think that we have it across all different industries, but I think especially in industries where like with all the like girl boss narrative, for example, like when female entrepreneurs like initially started being a thing, then we really big to these women up then we individually brought each of those women down yeah exactly I feel like as other founders that I've met instead of just feeling like it's all this big competition I'm like let's make our own table like I don't need someone to tell me if I have a seat I feel like I'm finally in this place where I don't need someone else to tell me if I have a seat at the table I make my own table yeah no I really really love that and I think we can also make that table together.

1:00:08Yeah. Sounds so like cheesy. But like, I think that, you know, figuratively, like we really can do that. And we do that intentionally by being like, yeah, here I am. And here are 15 other amazing like female entrepreneurs. And like, this is what we're doing. And this is why we're all fantastic. And like all of this. And that's actually what I spend a lot of time trying to do with this podcast as well. If I feel like someone's too close in terms of like industry profile, I will go out of my way to get them on because I'm like, this is how we accidentally create a space where there's space for one person.

1:00:36I want to speak very quickly about something that you've brought up like once or twice in this podcast, because I think that this is something that I personally would really like to speak about. But obviously you've had such a successful business and you've built yourself such an amazing life. You've spoken about the fact that you want kids at some point. Obviously, very frustratingly, that is something that we as women very much need to think about in terms of like, no matter how much you don't want it to affect your career and your job, there is this unfortunate reality. We have to bear the child.

1:01:09And like that has to, you know, that likely is going to change our lives, you know, even in the exact same job, 10 times more than it's going to change your husband's life. And as much as that's something that we can fight as much as possible, it is kind of a reality. And this is something that I have spent so much time going back and forth with in my own head. And I want to talk to you about it because I feel like I don't know I'm at this stage for example where I love my life I love my businesses in the next few years I will really want to have children yeah and at the same time that feels like making the decision to sacrifice my career and I fucking hate that yeah it's so unfair it is so it is the root of all evil yeah it's really unfair and I'm so open and honest about it with my husband.

1:01:59I'm like, it's really just unfair for me. Your life will be not affected whatsoever. You get a pet. I have to be a balloon for nine months taking outfit photos and like coming up with good ideas when my hormones are running rampant. And I think it's like, obviously, there's no right answer. But I feel like I have in the last like year or so I've connected with other moms who are entrepreneurs. And what they tell me is that a lot of it, just like your time becomes even more precious and you just become even more efficient. And I'm like, okay, we'll see if that happens for me when that happens. But I also think that something I've been thinking about is I am excited to have this other huge part of my life that is not about work because my entire life and my entire identity revolves around work.

1:02:51And that's something I'm trying to work on in general is like not putting all my value on myself around like my business and how well it's doing and I think when you have children I think it also just creates this like deeper meaning in your life that your business is now like your fun other thing that you do and the priorities shift a little bit in like a good way yeah I mean I feel exactly the same on both of those fronts I do just think like my biggest concern is that I have created a life and I will say this very openly, I've created the most exhausting but entirely selfish life that I possibly could have.

1:03:30Like genuinely, like every single second of my day is planned around what would make myself and my business do the best it can. And like, I am under no illusion that that can continue. And like, don't get me wrong, like a lot of that will be able to continue and I will fight for that to continue. But I think it's almost a fear that I know my priorities will change and I worry what that will do to what my priorities are now because my priorities are now are my businesses like they're my businesses they're my work like ultimately I feel like we're quite the same in them like I'm quite unashamed that those are my priorities I spent a few years trying to be like everything in life should matter more than work and I'm like actually I fucking love my work and like it makes me really happy and it makes it feels like a game sometimes and I love that and like that's just so who I am but at the same time like it scares me that my priorities will have to change.

1:04:18And at the same time, I want my priorities to change because I so want a family. But I just like, I don't know, I go back and forth on that so much. Is there anything that you're doing to kind of prepare for the processing of that or the change of that or like coming to terms with the fact that your priorities are changing? And you can still have this number, you can still have your work as a huge priority, but you probably can control it less. Yeah. Well, first of all, I do think that it's okay to when you obviously, I'm not going to know until I have kids, but just speaking for now, I think it's okay to be so passionate about your job still and care so much about it because, you know, if I have a daughter, that's exactly the example that I want to set for her.

1:04:58So I think I'm not going to become this like completely different person. Once I have my daughter, I feel like I'm going to want to show her what it was like to be this like really strong woman. And I think I have friends whose moms were entrepreneurs growing up and they said that they loved it. And it's like such an amazing example for them. And then I have my mom who I think was the most amazing selfless mom of all time. I tell her all the time when she's like, when are you having kids? I'm like, I am not you. I am the most selfish person on the planet. You made me selfish because you were really selfless.

1:05:32There's only space for me. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm like, I'm trying to like have my coffee on the balcony in silence every morning. So, but I think that like, she taught me growing up, Like she was the one that really pushed me to kind of like work for myself. And she would always make these little cute comments to me growing up. Like one day everyone in the family is going to work for you. One day everyone's going to work for you. Now, like my husband, he doesn't work for me. We work together. But like, I think that she just kind of implemented in me how much she wanted the life she wanted for me was to have my own money, you know, because that's not necessarily what she had.

1:06:09You know, my parents are still together. They're there have an amazing marriage, but she didn't have her own money growing like most of my life and she hated it. And I think that's why I ended up taking the path that I took is because she would like express those concerns to me. And I think I'm excited to show. And I also think girl or boy, it's so important to show if you have a boy of what your mom is a boss, like that's going to give him this totally different respect for women, in my opinion. So I think when I do have kids, my plan isn't to stop or even like slow down. My plan is to kind of like just keep going.

1:06:48And maybe now when I, you know, get off, maybe I'll actually like end work at a specific time and make those adjustments. And I think I'm like taking those baby steps, even just with Matt and our marriage of like, okay, our entire marriage can't revolve around our business. Like, okay, let's try to like watch a movie together. Let's try to like go to dinner together. Let's try to like turn off sometimes and try really hard to not talk about work. And I think it's taking those little steps. And I've also been trying to take steps of just finding fulfillment outside of work, which is really hard for me to do because I think my work is my entire personality and my entire life.

1:07:27So I'm just trying to slowly but surely find those things like outside of it. And I actually like spent a weekend with one of our couple friends who has a kid and I had the best weekend ever. I was like, oh my God, this is so fun. And it was fun to like watch me and Matt in action, giving this little five-year-old like life advice. Like we were just so like, we're both so into self-development that you like find yourself like the sun every morning like I was just like I can't tell I can't say yes to you about everything because sometimes I need to tell you no like it's not even my kid and I'm like fully giving him like podcast like word vomit of like things I learned myself and I think that we're gonna make we're great parents yeah I think we've done so much self-development and so much work on ourselves that that will like carry out into our children so I like I'm like if you would have talked to me about this even like three months ago I would have been like I'm not even having kids I think I'm probably just I'm a few months behind yeah at least with that kind of like mindset on it and I think I just find it so I've never I've never wanted anything as much as I want my business to do well I think that's probably like the cold hard truth and I think the one thing I probably do want that my business to do well is like an amazing family.

1:08:45And so like, it feels terrifying to have anything at odds with this big main goal, because I will be completely open with the fact that I have been like, entirely selfish around like, what does my life need to mean that I can work all of these hours and with this intensity and come home fucking exhausted, like a shell of myself, because that's what I do. And it's still be fine. Like, it's not the hours thing that will be a problem. It's the fact that I literally like all I think about is this business and like my work and I just am so far from the reality that actually that would need to change otherwise like don't get me wrong I'd still you know I'd still want to very much like do the businesses and love them and grow them and like ideally continue in the exact same way but currently I feel like I allow no space in my mind for anything else so to think about like doing something as big as like carrying a child and then raising them I'm like I can't even look after myself yeah like this hard so I'm like how do we even get to the point like from A to B it's looking pretty difficult at the moment but like I want to be there do you get what I mean yeah yeah I think it comes with time and I think it also comes from like being around other kids I think that's been a big thing for me like for years I said, I don't want kids.

1:10:00I literally would say with confidence when people would ask, I'm not having children. And I think, I also think a lot of it has come from, yeah, I'm on this like one track mind to grow my business, to be the biggest thing humanly possible. But I think I've learned to connect more to the reason for why I'm doing everything versus like grow, grow, grow, grow, grow. And all that matters is how fast we grow. I'm trying to connect to the other fulfilling parts about doing what I'm doing. Like, for example, like I feel so lucky that I get to like work with my husband and we get to be together 24 seven and we get to be in the middle of the workday and give each other kisses.

1:10:40And I, to me, I'm like, that's such a like blessing that you know, matter where Oriam goes, that at the end of the day, we're on this journey together. Like, that's kind of what I talked to Matt about all the time. I'm just kind Like I'm enjoying this journey. I get to be my own boss when I go to have kids. It's all under my control of how I can spend my time with them. How much do I want to delegate? Do I have the means to be able to have people around me helping me like all the things I think it just starts to naturally come little by little. all your friends who do have kids when they're like what you don't want kids like and I think whatever you decide or whatever direction you want to go is fine and I think that also being a mom by itself is a huge role and a huge job so and if that's your only role that's amazing as well I think like I just have so much respect for how everyone operates and I think you just make your own rules and it's the same way that we deal with getting judged online as a business owner as a creator I'm not letting anyone judge me as mom I'm like I'm pretty aware of myself and I don't think I'm perfect by any means but I'm like you have to just trust your intuition as a woman and be in tune with yourself and your own way of doing things and be like confident in that open-mindedness in terms of like routine and goals and all of these things is not something that comes naturally to me I have a very controlled clear mindset and this is like that's the least control you're gonna end up just storing your wake up get get kid up like you're gonna I know your little list is just gonna have a little different of things but you're gonna still operate the way that you want to that's what I need I need to see more like real transparency around those yeah yeah around around like motherhood and and don't get me wrong I know there's so much for out there I think it's because I haven't surrounded myself yeah like the past few years and now I'm like oh before we end can you tell me what the best piece of advice is that you haven't been given?

1:12:34I think it's just about knowing your why. I think so much of your motivation and confidence and ability to keep going when things are hard are about knowing deep down what your why is for why you're doing certain things. And whether you're an entrepreneur, whether you're at your job as a friend, everything, like everything throughout your life, I think always just connecting deep down of, well, I do things this way. Well, why? and then because of this well why and like just getting to that core root of why you do so many things that you do like I think I had to get into tune to myself as a business owner of why I wanted to start this business and I felt like it was because I really wanted to provide value and like ease for getting dressed and you could just throw on a jeans and t-shirt and put on orium and you're gonna look so chic and and then even the deeper meaning of why I'm doing what I'm doing because I want to like fulfill my own potential and I want to feel like I know I'm so capable of so much and I want to step into that and actually fulfill that for myself and and I'm also building a business because I just love what I do and I'm passionate about it and just connecting to the reason for why you're doing everything I think that is really important it's very much just like we expect to know ourselves purely based off living with ourselves every day and actually like rigorously questioning that and understanding what our motivations are and like what gets us going and what makes us upset and what makes us feel trapped and like all of these things is the best thing we can possibly do because that's like that's what you fall back on when like times are shit or they're particularly hard or they're particularly good like that is what you fall back on and I think probably a lot of us don't spend enough time like truly getting to know ourselves yeah exactly because I feel like there's gonna be a lot of times you feel like giving up but if you're focusing on the right things and focusing on the reason for why you do everything you'll be like okay yeah feel centered again yeah thank you so much for joining me this has been so good I feel like I've had some actual like therapy and we must yeah me too I know me too I feel like we'll have to redo this when we have like little babies in the corner hopefully who knows

1:15:20We'll see you next time. Thank you.

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