Ep.126 How To Reset Your Routine To Be 'High Maintenance To Be Low Maintenance' with Siff Haider

0:28Hey, it's Adam Grant from WorkLife, a podcast from TED. software, you'll work smarter, not harder. Freshworks uncomplicates. Learn more at Freshworks.com.

1:00Go to Upwork.com now and find your freelance expert. That's U-P-W-O-R-K dot com. Post a job for free and get started today. Hi, friends. Grace from the Working Hard podcast here. When you're stretching every dollar, a little goes a long way, and Walmart Business is here to help. They make it easy to order what you need from tech and cleaning supplies to everyday essentials, all at low prices and with helpful tools like spend tracking and tax-exempt purchasing for eligible organizations. Because when your operations are smooth, your impact can be bigger. Visit business.warmart.com to get started.

1:41What is up and welcome to Working Hard Hardly Working. I am so excited to be chatting to Sif Hayda today. Sif is an incredible entrepreneur who has had her business grow tenfold since she started it. But I will be honest, this episode isn't just about Sif's business journey. A few months ago, I became completely obsessed with her TikToks on the high maintenance rules she lives by to stay low maintenance and the routine she swears by, the hot girl habits she seeks to. And so this is genuinely a case of me inviting Sip on to have a chat all about exactly that. I joked the other day on my blog that my 2025 aim is to get hot in all senses of the word.

2:12When I say hot, you think I mean, you know, I just want to look hot. That's not what I see as hot. I see as hot someone who is on top of their habits, who is doing interesting things, who has hobbies, who is feeling good about themselves and all of this and that is what I want for 2025. So that is something I am forcing on you for this year too and this episode is designed to be a great starting point for exactly that. It's a really a big old girl chat about how to level up your life and keep it at that level rather than allowing yourself to kind of drift from there or stay held back by your comfort zone.

2:48Before we get into this episode on your podcast app it will either say subscribe or follow dependent on what you're listening to this on under the podcast name and it makes such a big difference to us as a podcast we are a very very small team and it allows us to be able to get incredible people on the podcast and it allows us also to be with you every single Monday morning without you even having to think about it to give you the boost you need.

3:15Thank you so much for joining me. I'm so happy to be here. I feel like I know exactly what I want from this episode and I like can't wait to get into it. I feel like it's going to be, I don't know, I've said this before on this podcast, but I feel like all of the best podcasts are ones that you can trust that you are going to be able to go on a walk and you are going to be able to listen to it and you are not going to have to change the podcast because to me there is nothing worse than having a walk planned around a specific podcast episode and getting 10 minutes in and being like, I'm bored out of my mind.

3:46A hundred percent. It needs to be like value packed. You need to come back home being like, I am so ready for whatever this day and my life throws at me. Exactly that. And then it also needs to have like the exact right amount of stimulation so that you feel like you're being told a story, but you're also not being lectured. I agree. Yeah. So what we are going to do today, like we're going to do an actual deep dive into the, I guess, how to improve your overall routine so that your overall standard of living increases and you don't feel like you are spending all of your time trying to like upkeep or look a certain way and also be obviously great at your job and a great partner and all these different things because it is a lot to balance for everyone.

4:23But before we're going to do that, we're going to get a little bit of context on you so we can know where your advice comes from. And first of all, I always ask everyone whether you feel like at the moment you're more working hard or hardly working. Working hard. Yeah, always. I would say always. But with the caveat being that I think I've mastered the art of working hard but having my non-negotiables. So I'm never really burning out. I love that. I feel like I've found a way to make it sustainable. Yeah. And I'm excited to do this conversation because I think the thing is that when people are career driven or they have businesses or whatever, like, you know, even if you don't have a business and you're just like a highly motivated individual, I think there is this I don't want to call it a misconception, but it is this thing where like you just feel like you have to do all of the things and like just go so hard and then you kind of burn out and then that's just not sustainable.

5:21so I feel like I've gotten to the point where obviously like our business is like significant and we have a team of like 30 people and I'm working really really hard all the time but I've found systems to make it sustainable and also so that I enjoy the journey because what else am I doing this for I know and I think that is so important and also so hard like it is truly difficult to be able to get that balance whilst also whilst also understanding like the mental load of how much else comes with just like life. There's this hilarious TikTok I saw the other day which is like there is just so much to think about.

5:54It's like I have to think about when I'm going to bed. I have to think about my laundry. I have to think about my deadlines. I have to think about my friends' birthdays. I have to think about all of it. Like there is just too much to think about. I agree. And I feel like finding that balance of those boundaries and those non-negotiables to be able to perform your best because it does enable you to perform your best. Like working flat out all the time does not enable you to perform your best and that's something I need to internalize because I don't know why I'm like, there's something fucked up up here that very much says like, you need to be a hundred percent all the time.

6:23Otherwise you are a not worthy of things going well and B it's, you're not working hard enough. And that is incorrect. And I know it's incorrect, but it's still still, and now we're working on it. Um, I'd love to know what those non-negotiables are that you talked about. So I'll tell you a little story. Okay. So I love a story. Yeah. So we've been doing Array. This is my fifth year building this brand. Okay. And as I said, like our team is like almost 30 people. That's a lot of people, you know, and I remember year two of our business. I was still in that place where I was like, have to be working 24 seven, like nothing else matters.

7:01Like who cares about like personal things that I do, like going to the like, no one has time to go to the gym, no walks, no nothing. This is all I do. Okay. and we were fundraising for the first time which we had never done and anyone who's gone through the hell it's really it's not the glamorous headlines let me tell you that much and we our fundraising process took about three months that entire three months I lived off of three wishes cereal okay it's all I ate I mean I didn't it was like a miracle if I would get outside for like a 30 minute walk we and I distinctly have memories of us like just trying to get a workout class in and like immediately like coming home and like getting having to get on an investor call okay it was like grueling and when this happened you know like we went through the process and then on the last day where the funds literally hit our bank account and we were done I ended up having an accident okay so I fell off one of those scooters and I had like thankfully minor brain injuries I was like flat out like I was unconscious so like you can imagine like Nish who's my husband and co-founder I was with him and my brother and they were both like panicked they had to take me away in an ambulance I was in the hospital for two days blah blah blah thankfully all was well and I like came out of it fine right but what that experience taught me was that my health is just so important and I was like what am I even doing all this for if I'm not even enjoying the process like if I'm not giving myself time to like you know do like regular human things like go to the gym or like walk you know yeah I mean I'm so with you on that and I think that it's a story we hear over and over again and we only seem to internalize it ourselves when it happens to us absolutely like Like I feel like there have been periods in my life, like pretty recently, where I've like got angry watching people's Instagram stories when they're like at a workout class.

8:57I'm like, oh, how are you even doing that? Like I don't even like, you know, like how are you even doing that and like having a life and like working out because I'm literally so in my shell, so flat out, so 100 percent. like for a reason yeah of course but me internalizing the fact that that seems to be the only way I can do my job yeah is both weird because I don't think it is and I think at that stage it's like no certain things need to change but it's also like if that is the case do you really want that job like do you really want that like you've told yourself you want that you've told yourself you love being a business owner and you love like being online and you love all of this but like at the point that you want to shout at someone for suggesting that you could possibly go on a walk is that worth it exactly and I think when you have a high-powered career you're like oh I'll do all of these things later when when is later if this is what you actually enjoy and you want to own a business or like have a demanding career or whatever it is why are we waiting for that next thing in order to be able to do just like basic things so going back to your question of like what are like, I guess like you'd ask what my non-negotiables are, right?

10:04It's basic. It's not like crazy things, you know, it's basic. So things like I wake up in the morning, I don't look at my phone first thing in the morning. Amazing, inspiring stuff. But you know what, Grace? So it wasn't, I've not always been like this. I say this because I was feeling like I was getting to a point where I was consistently overstimulated and overwhelmed. OK, so I just did this challenge with myself. I was like, OK, for the next two weeks, all I'm going to do is I'm going to make sure I pick up my phone after journaling in the morning. That means like, you know, it's not that I'm not picking up my phone to like turn my like hatch alarm off.

10:41Right. But it's like I'm not looking at social media. I'm not looking at emails. I'm not looking at these things that are just going to like set me off. Right. Like I'm not going to answer my Slack messages. So until after I finish journaling. and then I'm not going to look at my notifications like on my phone after 10 p.m. because I sleep between 10 30 and 11. The impact that those two weeks made in my life was absurd. I was way more creative, way more efficient. I felt like I was proactive versus becoming like so reactive because that's what we do when we're like waking up and we're seeing all of these things.

11:13It's like oh my God like I'm already behind. So I felt like I was so in control of my life after that. This is now like what like two years or like a year and a half like whatever it's been a long time that I've been doing this changed my life really changed my life do you know what's so funny is that when you say that I instantly know when you instantly have a reaction being like but I can't do that I'm literally like in my head I'm like but I can't do that and I can give you about 20 excuses right now I can tell you that my fiancee travels a lot for work so he's in London and then we're waking up at different time zones and then that's the I wake up and it's the end of his day and I want to talk to him and I'm also in a different time zone for my team so I need to like yeah all of this and then also maybe it's relaxing for me first thing in the morning or like just before bed and I'm like telling you all of these things and I'm like that is addiction like as in like I genuinely believe we are all so addicted to our phones we are more than we actually are comfortable admitting and me telling you all of these excuses of why I can't do that when in reality me saying good morning half an hour later or me maybe giving him a call instead of then being there messaging him whilst also then flicking between social media apps or all of this It's like there are solutions that work.

12:20You are just like when you want to make an excuse for something, you will make an excuse for something. And I can honestly, I promise you, I could sit here and give you 100 reasons why I can't do that. Whilst also knowing that that would probably transform my life. Yeah, you know, and I think like, of course, look, I also think that we can't be so dogmatic. Like, for example, like when I work in a different time zone, like I go home to Asia for the holidays and I go home for three weeks. that means that I'm working in LA time zone there. OK, so that means like typically my work day ends at like 2 a.m.

12:52So when I'm there, that's the exception that I make because I understand that my like my routine has to change in order for me to go see my family for as long as I want to see them for. So, of course, we make exceptions. Absolutely. Like, let's not be like so attached to like whatever our non-negotiables are. but yeah like I think having systems in place and like you should just do it as a one week test on yourself and see if it makes a difference if it doesn't make a difference then this is not for you you know yeah and that's what a lot of the things I think that we whether you want to call it like an addiction or like a real strong tendency or whatever it might be is that we almost want it not to work like because it's part of our schedule and it's part of like I one thing I'm good at for example is I don't scroll TikTok a lot during the week because I know that I get so fixated on things that I genuinely would be found there three business days later, like unable to breathe just because I've been like so fixated on this one specific thing.

13:47But I do think that like we get something into our routine and there's like that, what is it that like upper limit problem where your body constantly wants to drag you down to the level that you were at before. Like your body does not like you going out of your comfort zone in an upward direction it doesn't feel comfortable like you elevating your life in whatever way does not feel comfortable because it isn't currently comfortable it is not what you know and so instantly again when you're saying that it's like there's almost this internal resistance to me wanting to do that despite the fact that like if it improves your life it improves your life and I feel like that's something that we all need to break through when it comes to actual life improvement and routine improvement and that like idea of one percent better every day it's Like you will have resistance and pretty strong resistance that you don't even realize is your like self-sabotage and subconscious biases of being like, no, I'm not going to do that.

14:41Yeah. And I think that that's like the human experience, you know, like that's how we're supposed to react when we're trying to push ourselves beyond our limits. Like that's a very normal reaction. It's both the human experience and it's also the fact that like we're vying with like these billion dollar companies who are vying for our attention. Absolutely. Like as in like their, like if you've, the social dynamic is obviously like such a good thing to watch for this, but it's like their whole business model is your attention. So they are putting fucking like billions and billions into getting your attention.

15:14So like it is kind of not your fault if you can't fight that. It's hard to fight and you should be fighting it. But also at the same time, like you have to have some like grace as well around the fact that that's, you're going to be fighting a little bit of a losing battle because there's a reason they put that in that. It's the same with like things like ultra processed foods. It's like it is designed to change the way your brain works so that you want more of it. So you also kind of we're fighting against a lot more than we were, you know, 30 years ago, which is why I think it's always so interesting that people are so quick to put like labels on generations.

15:49it's like how is this one big group of people suddenly different from this other group of people it's like no it's the landscape that we're operating in we're not suddenly a huge lazy generation it is that we are dealing with very different circumstances yeah a hundred percent and i think that like with things like you're saying like with tech like it's it's tough but you know you you have to figure out like what systems work for you and again like maybe this is not for everyone maybe you know you're not feeling overstimulated and overwhelmed oh i am Okay, well maybe chat for a week. Let me know what you think and we'll chat.

16:23But outside of that even, and again, like if you don't want to, if this tech thing feels like too big for you, right? There's other non-negotiables. For me, that's journaling in the morning. I've been doing it for, since 2015, every single day. And are there specific prompts you ask yourself? So initially, when I first got into it, it was just a five minute journal. And now it's like everything I free write. So for example, today, actually, I've never talked about this. And so it's interesting. But I did this exercise today for the first time, where I was like, let me think about my life as I as I'm living it today, as though it was like 24 year old me who's like just looking into it.

17:02And I was like, I had such immense gratitude because, you know, we're always chasing after the next thing. Like we're always thinking about how we can improve, especially again, like if you are an entrepreneur or you're a driven person and whether that's career or otherwise. Right. Like we always have like more, more, more. And when you do this exercise, you're like, oh, my God, like I have all of the things that I had dreamed of, like even beyond that. And so taking the time to like really appreciate that. I love like that exercise I thought was like really great. It's an exercise of gratitude.

17:34Then I love future you journaling. So for example, if somebody is lost about how to kind of get to the next level of life, I think future you journaling is an incredible tool because essentially all you do is you write about your life, like the dream life that you want as though you already have it. And then you dive into each of the habits that that version of you has. Right. So, for example, I don't know, like say you're writing about the nice home that you're in. OK, so like what are the habits that this version of you has in order to have got that home? Right. It's probably like, I don't know, like whatever they're doing at work or like maybe they have certain patterns around how they're like their work habits or how efficient they are or whatever it is.

18:16Right. Like it can be anything. So I feel like if you are kind of lost as to how to get there, I think that'll give you the roadmap. So there's so many different tools that you can do when it comes to journaling. But I've been journaling for 10 years. I feel like it's a transformative practice. For me, it's my version of meditation. I absolutely adore it. And then I walk every day and I work out five days a week, non-negotiable. I feel like it's important for my mental health. Yeah. No, I totally get that. And I think different people finding what their equivalent of that is, is so, so important.

18:46And before we get into more of the kind of routine and life improvement stuff, anyone who might not be familiar with you and your business could you give us a little whistle stop tour of your background and kind of how you get to where you are now so i so my my brand is called array and we do supplements for targeted issues so bloat for example is what we launched with it eliminates bloating in under an hour it's excellent for digestion we have you know sleep for sleep and then we just launched today tone which is a creatine gummy congratulations thank you so yeah it's all targeted supplements in terms of how I got here essentially I never thought that I'd be starting this sort of a business but it came out of like a personal need so in my early 20s or actually my whole life I had a very poor immune system and in my early 20s I think this was like when I was 23 24 I ended up fracturing a rib from a chronic cough and I was at that time working for Elle and I loved my job.

19:48Okay. I always thought I was going to work in fashion, by the way. So very different. And I was sent home from work because I was like literally doubled over in pain. And I went to the hospital. They did an x-ray. They were like, okay, well, your rib is fractured. And I was like, okay, this doesn't typically happen to people in their 20s. Like, what do I do to make sure this doesn't happen again? And the doctor gave me codeine and was like, just take this and you'll be fine. Best of luck. Yeah. And I was like, huh? Like, that's fine. Like, it may stop me from coughing today. But like, how do I make sure that my immune system heals?

20:23Because like, I like, I don't want to be living life like this. I don't want to be constantly fatigued and tired and sick. So anyway, this is like 10 years, almost 10 years ago, right? And back then the resources around holistic, natural, you know, any of that, It was very granola. I thought it was weird. I didn't believe in any of it. And but I was at that point so desperate that I was like, I've been doing this thing where I'm running to the doctor and taking antibiotics every couple of months. And let me just see if I can find another solution. And so that was how I got into like, you know, lifestyle changes and natural kind of like supplements, herbs, minerals, vitamins, learned about food.

21:04And I started to notice that my immune system started to shift. And so that's when I got really interested in it. But for years, it was just this like thing that I was like just interested in, like heavily interested in. And I kind of became this witch doctor for my friends, myself, always had like a cabinet full of like different single ingredient things. And anytime someone was sick or like needing help with an issue, they'd call me and be like, try these things, you know. And so I back then was a content creator. And, you know, like as a creator, you're sent things all the time, right? Like beauty products and da, da, da.

21:38And I remember feeling like, OK, there is like solutions here for skin care. And it's so easy to navigate when you go to Sephora and, you know, you're finding something for your dark circles and your acne and whatever your issue is. and easy to understand, formulated by a derm. It's beautiful. So you actually want to use it. What the heck is going on in supplements? Like, why is it this like, you know, just completely like a lost thing where people don't know what they're doing? And I was like, people can start taking natural things instead of running to the pharmacy every time something is wrong, right?

22:11And so my husband and I, Nish, we, like the two of us, we were like, okay, like, why don't we work on creating a supplement brand that's targeted, that's beautiful, that's efficacious, that people can actually feel the difference. And so we launched Array back in 2020. And it's been the most rewarding thing that I've ever done in my life. It's been so fun. So fun. I'm so grateful that, you know, like, anytime you get to have an impact on how someone is feeling, and I'm sure you feel that way too, right? With the content you share with the products that you're creating, helps people's confidence.

22:43And, you know, for us, it's like similar, like, it's, you know, we get emails all the time like oh like I wasn't able to eat my favorite foods now I'm able to do it or like I suffered from terrible heartburn like now I don't I've been able to sleep but like these are crazy stories so that's kind of my background yeah no that's incredible and I feel I totally agree on that I think that like one of the most rewarding parts of it is truly like you often start a business with you in mind I think that's what happens for a lot of people and you start it almost thinking that like I assume there are other people out there that feel xyz but I know for sure that I feel really strongly about this so if I make it with me in mind great and then each product that's able to have that equivalent effect on someone else like I totally agree it's like there is nothing better than receiving like an essay DM being like and this is what I had and this is my like background and this is how I felt and like this is what I felt since and it's just like that like it's honestly the best feeling ever and I heard that you put your wedding fund into the business with your husband?

23:47So we still say it's the best return on investment we've ever made. And like, I truly stand by that. So we, Nish and I didn't want to raise money when we launched the business. And so we decided we were going to put our wedding money to start the business instead. And so that's what we did. And it was really the best decision because I think for a business like ours, I'm glad that we didn't fundraise to start it because we were able to get to a significant revenue number before even deciding to have those conversations. We did it from a place of power. And more importantly, I think we were able to understand how to run a healthy business.

24:24And so we didn't have a wedding. We got married and it was like very simple, but we love working together. And I feel like if anything, like it strengthened our relationship beyond anything else. So yeah, like that's what we did. And it was the best decision ever. I love that. And it's so funny because obviously like a wedding is an investment in you as a couple, but in a different way. And like that is truly an investment in you as a couple and like the lifestyle you want to build and the jobs you want to have and all of that. And I think it's so funny because we probably intellectually think of it as differently and we think of it as like, but this one's a normal thing that you would do as a couple and feels acceptable and the other one's like oh my god that's a huge risk and it's like wait a second are we sure they're not just both as risky as each other and one of them probably isn't gonna get that much return and all of that I feel like that's that's such like a bold thing to do but also makes total sense yeah I mean it's like obviously like the very like we're both very logical people and so it made sense for us also to be fair our circumstance was a little bit different we had just gone into COVID we had planned this wedding and we just decided that we weren't going to do it at all even post COVID and instead put the money into this instead now we will probably still we say that we're going to have a party I mean we're like we've been married for years now but I think it might be fun to have a party now you know and like for sure we have like maybe even more to celebrate so I just I feel like you don't have to kind of marry traditions you know I think You can do it however feels good to you.

25:56Yeah. No, I really, really love that. And I think that, I mean, I completely agree. And I think that being able to flout tradition and make your own traditions in terms of like what really means a lot to you and that being a better celebration of your relationship at the time and arguably a bigger commitment for your relationship at the time, I feel like is really powerful. And I think that, you know, we all probably need to do a little bit more of that kind of, I don't just need to do this because everyone else has done that. The market's uncertain. Revenue's tied and hiring on hold. That's why results-driven companies are using Upwork to keep work moving.

26:32Go to Upwork.com today and start hiring proven freelance talent fast. No bulky overhead. No rigid long-term contracts. Just the right expert right when you need them. Work smarter and faster with Upwork. Go to Upwork.com now and find your freelance expert. That's U-P-W-O-R-K.com. Post a job for free and get started today. What's up, Grace from the Working Hour podcast here, and I want to tell you about something exciting. You're watching every dollar, and Walmart business helps you stretch each one. From office supplies to snacks and cleaning gear, you'll get everyday low prices, plus easy bulk ordering and fast delivery.

27:08And with tools like spend tracking and multi-user accounts, staying organized is simple. Save time, money, and hassle at business.walmart.com. It's free to sign up. When you think of skyrocketing brands like Aloe, Allbirds or Skims, it's easy to credit their success to great products, sleek branding, and brilliant marketing. But here's the overlooked secret. The real magic lies in the engine behind the scenes, the business powering their business. For millions of brands, that engine is Shopify, making selling seamless for them and shopping effortless for us. Upgrade your business and get the same checkout aloe yoga uses sign up for your one dollar per month trial period at shopify.com slash retail all lowercase go to shopify.com slash retail to upgrade your selling today shopify.com slash retail and another thing i was thinking is that obviously the supplements business is huge here especially in comparison to the uk where it is you know it's big business but it's nowhere near as much as here, especially women's supplements.

28:15You know, I've always thought, I guess that is because we've got the NHS in the UK. So we've got national healthcare, we don't need to pay for any healthcare at all. And then I've kind of thought, well, actually, it seems to be big on both sides, potentially because we get so few answers from traditional healthcare and so little data on female health, like 93 % of all data we have on the human body is only on the male body. And like we, I mean, for any women listening to this, I don't need to impress the fact that, you know, you're much more likely to go to the doctor and get a anxiety diagnosis than a heart diagnosis or, you know, put on something to do with your mental state rather than your physical state as a woman.

29:00I find that really, really interesting. do you feel like how big the supplements market is is a reflection of the fact that women generally need to take matters into their own hands to be able to get answers yes I mean I would like to say that things are changing I'm hopeful that things are changing but yes I think that women are also very much in tune with their bodies and I think people are just like women specifically are just learning to like read their body cues and also not gaslight themselves. You know what I mean? Like, I think for a long time it was like gaslighting yourself almost. And I think things are changing.

29:40So I think, yeah, like women are definitely like taking things into their own hands. Also with supplements, like I think a lot of it can be preventative care. Of course, like if you're going to if you're having a heart attack, like don't don't go to the supplement aisle, you know, go to the hospital. Right. Like so time and place. But yes, I think that women are trying to kind of like figure out what are the things that they can do in order to start to feel their best. And I think it's empowering and I think it's incredible. Yeah. And there's definitely more preventative health care here or more interest in wellness as preventative health care here because dealing with cure health care is so expensive here in comparison to, I think, the UK, where people have a little bit more of an assumption that if something does end up being wrong with you, you can very easily fix it without having to take out a loan or you know sell your house or whatever it might be which is obviously part of that system here but I find that really interesting in terms of like the the link between women kind of really really taking things more into their own hands especially over the past few years with social media and being able to talk about a lot of things more like every time I speak about PCOS on TikTok people are like oh my god yeah me too me too me And it's like, and yet we have zero bucking data on it anywhere.

30:55And so few supplements made for it specifically and so little kind of work put into like, this is what you need for this or this is the likely supplementation you need for this. And it's just crazy. It's really sad. And like it's like deeply upsetting because I mean, like PCOS, like there's so many of these like hormonal issues that you go to the doctor and there is like really no answers. And then you have to search far and wide for a doctor who does specialize in this area, even though like hormones are a universally applicable thing for all women. Like I find it appalling that the first time I ran a hormone panel was when I was 30.

31:33I was like, how is this possible? I know. And also one thing I found wild the other day is that so I've always so I've had PCOS since I was like 12. And I remember that when I first my first crazy story is that I went to the doctor from a referral where they thought I had PCOS because I had all the symptoms. And I literally waited three months for this referral and went into the doctor's office at the hospital. And the doctor looked me up and down. It was just like middle aged man. He looked me up and down. He goes, well, you're not fat and you're not hairy. so you don't have PCOS. And made me walk out, did not ask a single other question and I had to walk out of that room and that was my appointment done.

32:13And I just didn't go back to the doctor for it for like fucking like eight years because I was like - Well, why would you? Literally, I was like, okay, well, A, that was embarrassing. B, that was very insensitive. And like bearing in mind, I'd like the symptoms I had had were like pretty fucking horrific and then was stuck on birth control from the fucking age of like 13 until last year. It's like insane. So that's my first like wild story. And then the next part is that I have been doing like lots of hormone tests and everything over the past few years because my PCOS symptoms got a lot worse and like, you know, just been exploring what the fuck is going on.

32:53And I did blood tests and I then got them looked at and they were like, no all of these look normal in fact your hormones don't look weird at all so you must not have PCOS so I'm like oh okay well that's actually great like fantastic now I do need to work out what's wrong but that's good to know that maybe I don't have that even though I've thought that for about 15 years then went to a private clinic and got some blood tests done and then my results were completely different and I was like okay this is just weird and then I went and got Dutch testing done which is like when you like for full transparency you like pee on a stick intensely for one day of different times and then like across a month on like different specific cycle days and then the person who was taking me through those results they were like yeah because when you get a blood test and it's scheduled in they don't ask what day of your cycle you're on it could be entirely different that afternoon versus that morning like women's bodies like the hormone fluctuations are pretty intense it's not that like you just have estrogen on these days and you just have like it goes up and down throughout the day throughout the day of the month all of this so I was like why do we even do blood tests then for half of this shit and then I'm going to the doctor and then getting referred to someone else and then they're being like oh maybe you don't have this and it's like this is it's crazy no it's actually insane and it's so sad because I mean this is 2025 and yet this is not universal literally training we have people trying to go down and see the Titanic in like actual submarines I know going to like outer space and we're just like hi can you tell me why my period's a bit funny and they're like oh difficult yeah i mean come on you guys like let's we've fared out space elon literally maybe work on this instead i actually would rather elon come nowhere near my fucking future somebody else elon equivalent woman please please yeah no it's fucking wild and i think there's like so much that we can say and speak about in that space and i think it's so loaded as well that like women get the brunt of so much of this like oh but you're all over consuming to deal with all of these problems and it's like yeah well also it's because health care is actually really not solving a lot of these things so like what do you expect we're having to take things into our own hands and then you're telling us that we're over consuming and we're spending all of this exactly and i'm like what do you think people want to spend like hundreds and thousands of dollars on like wasted things that they're just trialing but we have to take things into our own hands to do the trial and error process because there's no playbook for us so we're just our own guinea pigs figuring it out i know it's wild i could sweep that up for yeah probably three years without breathing i think most women can and i like i really do think that this is the common sentiment that all of us have and you know there's been some form of this story of yours that everyone's experienced yeah literally you know like it's like same same thing like different font you know what I mean like it's like that's what it is like you are in my story like they're essentially the same thing just different variations which is crazy yeah it truly is and you've talked about a lot of this stuff and also like general kind of how you can integrate your things into your routine to be able to make yourself feel better and look better and just like be able to elevate your life in all these different ways.

36:10I want to first speak about kind of productivity and your routine because a lot of what you speak about is around this like holistic life improvement and all different angles. It's not just about how you look, it's also about how you're feeling and how you're getting these walks in and workouts in and all of that. Could you first take me through like what a pretty classic day in the life looks like for you? For sure. So I typically wake up around like 6 30 to 645 depends on the day. And as soon as I wake, the first thing I'll do is obviously like go to the bathroom, like brush my teeth, like skincare, all of those things.

36:45And then I get dressed right away. And then I make my way over to my kitchen. I make my coffee. Well, first I have a ton of water, make my coffee, sit down and have my coffee and journal. And that takes like maybe like 20 minutes. And then I then pick up my phone, look at my notifications, and then I go for a walk while I walk again that walk isn't like long unless I have all this time in the morning but like let's call it 15 to 20 minutes okay I go out for my walk I'm listening to either a book or a podcast because I feel like I'm just excited to learn at that time of day yeah I want to like absorb information so a podcast like this is perfect and then after that I come home and that's typically like by 8 a.m like maybe 8 15 I'm like ready to kind of like be in front of my computer and then I'm like either looking at emails or like my to-do list and just like ticking things off essentially and basically that my work day is my work day I have it depends on the day but like some days are like more meeting heavy now I think the stage of our business it's crazy but it is like very meeting heavy and there's really no way around it and that's okay because so much of my job now as a leader is to kind of make sure that the team is functioning in the right way and then once my workday well not once my workday is done because it's never really done but basically like oh this is a good tip actually so when I don't need to be in front of my screen for meetings I'll take them walking this is so funny because that's actually something that I messaged to my assistant this morning I was like can we re-look at my schedule and see any calls that I do just by default at my laptop as a video call that I do not need to be seeing that person's face like unless we're going through a deck yes or like we're going through some data I don't need to be seeing that person's face and I could be walking yeah and I feel like that's going to be pretty transformative for me I'll report back it's honestly grace I feel like it is so it's so easy because we don't need to have the video on for every call and we didn't used to like as in you even if you were in the office you would often have a call with someone who wasn't in the office and it would be a call like it would not be a video call exactly exactly that makes such a big difference and i think we just naturally put in like a zoom yeah and it's like this i don't need to see your face i can send you a selfie exactly and like that precedent was set with our team like right from the get-go because i've i've been doing this for years now like i would always try to do a walking meeting whenever i can i think better i concentrate better i really think better like I feel like it's pretty transformative for me it really is so you should I mean and now you're in LA where you have this like beautiful weather scene I know me walking in London like under an umbrella it's a little bit different there yeah so here it's like way more doable but yeah so I take whatever meetings that I can walking certain days are better than others obviously like and then my appointment at the gym is always 5 p.m so I leave my house by like 4 45 and is that like a non-negotiable for you 5 p.m absolute non-negotiable like I simply cannot miss it.

39:48I also work with a trainer now. So that's good. I can't miss that. Yeah. Like, what am I going to do? First, they'll charge me. Yeah. I'm not paying for that. Like what? So I show up and honestly, there's days where I don't want to go. OK, like I am just like everyone else. OK, you're drained after a day. Like, are you kidding me? Like the last thing you want to do is go to the gym. But I swear to you, Grace, and I think everyone can really if they're honest, you have you will never regret a workout even if I go like I went the day my grandma died okay like I spent the whole day crying and at 5 p.m.

40:22I was like time to go and I went and I told my trainer I was like my grandma died today and he gave me a hug and he's like it's okay we'll take it easy that movement I was so grateful for yeah and like there's really like of course like certain tragedies like there's no moving past it and like mourn do whatever you need to do or like if you've just had like something really bad happen of course right like let's not diminish that but I'm saying that like 90 % of the time we can still make it and just like even if you can do a light workout even if it's like you you barely did anything it's still a habit and you're still like showing up and that's what's important for me like it's it's it's been transformative for my mental health and I'm so much more productive yeah I completely agree and one thing I think about that as well that has been pretty transformative for my consistency because I used to be amazingly consistent at the gym and I used to like my I absolutely loved fitness and I was very kind of into it and I have got a lot back into consistency and I think one of the biggest parts of that has been aiming for average and having a good secondary option so I think that what I mean by that is like with aiming for average I think so many people when they're trying to start going to the gym or trying to start changing anything in their routine, they aim for perfect.

41:35So it's like, okay, so you're saying five days a week, all or nothing, they'll go for doing five days a week, because that is, you know, you could read some studies and someone would say, ideally, you would need to weight lift three times and you need to do mobility twice and all of this. So you aim for that, because that's the perfect thing. That's not the perfect thing if you do it for two weeks. And so aiming for average is really like, okay, I'm going to aim for this three things. And no, that's not optimal. But it's definitely more optimal be doing that for a year than doing five days a week for two weeks.

42:01And then the second thing is having a good secondary option which for me is knowing that every single one of my workouts could be replaced with a walk and I don't want to do that all the time like I do want to get a good workout in every single one of them could be replaced with a walk and I think you could either do that as a like you could do that as a 12 3 30 like an incline walk you could do that as something else but just being like if I really don't want to work out that is more than fine you can scroll tiktoks on the treadmill doing a walk or doing a walk outside that is more than fine.

42:31Those are your two options, though, because I think a lot of the time our two options are working out and not working out. Exactly. And that needs to change. I couldn't agree more. And I've had so many fitness experts come on my podcast and they're like, I've seen clients for years. And the people who've seen the biggest difference are even on a busy day when they think they don't have time, they just go and do it for 15 minutes, 10 minutes, because it's building a habit. And those 10 minutes, 15 minutes, they add up. Right. And like what you're saying about the secondary option. I completely agree.

43:02Like, for example, I have a run day right now because I'm working on my run baked into my routine. Now, if for some reason I get to the gym and I'm like, I just simply cannot lift today, OK, because I lift three days a week and then I run once a week, I will switch that lift day for a run day and I will watch YouTube while running. And it's like actually fun for me. And it doesn't have to be the hardest run I've ever done. You know, like I will moderate that. So it's like, you know, a walk run situation or like a very easy situation. So I agree, like having a secondary option, whether it's like, OK, screw the workout.

43:38I'm just going to go out for a one hour walk. That one hour walk is amazing for you. Like people don't even realize the impact that you can have on your health just by walking. Yeah. You don't have to do anything else. So I don't think it's a five day a week thing. Like I'm sharing my specific thing. It's taken me a long time to get here, you know, like and it's taken an immense amount of discipline. But if I could go back and give myself this advice from like year one of the business, I would say exactly what you're saying, you know, just like go three times a week. Yeah, replace it with a walk.

44:08Yeah, exactly. Just like do, just do, get something in. Something is better than nothing. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, and then I come back from the gym, like I'm back home by 6.15, make my dinner, heat it up typically because it's already prepped. and then like while eating dinner if if I need to like wrap up more work I'll do that or just like do something fun if like I don't feel like there's something like urgent that I have to get to then my husband comes home from the gym he like goes after me and then when he gets home that's when we hang out for like half an hour 45 minutes we'll typically like if we have the capacity to do so we'll talk about work right now like I feel like I'm fine to do that so it's been like very like work heavy during dinner and then like I'll start to wind down by like 9 45 9 30 read for a bit and go to bed I am completely obsessed with your tiktoks on how to be high maintenance to be low maintenance I feel like I really want to go into this because it's a key part of like how to build a routine that works around you but also means that you can upkeep certain things you want to upkeep I think that one of the like biggest internal battles I have is the fact that like I want to look nice and I want to be put together and all of this but I don't really want to want to look nice and I don't really want to spend time on it and like I don't really think that that's what I amount to but at the same time I'm like but I want it like it's a constant like back and forth in my head which I feel like it is for a lot of my friends and a lot of women in general could you share a few of your favorite high maintenance things to be low maintenance for us to learn from so I think something important like based on what you're saying and I completely agree with is that we don't have millions of hours in a day to have like these like extensive for the most part extensive self-care routines you know like no one has or the average person I'm not going to say no one because a lot of people do have that time but I specifically don't have hours in a day to dedicate to like looking a certain way you know I just I want things to be efficient like I've told you my routine right like you can see it's efficient.

46:13I'm not taking six hours in the morning to get dolled up. This is just not things I have time for, but it is important to me to look a certain way. It may not be for everyone else or anyone else, but for me, that's always been important. I feel like low-maintenance things to be high-maintenance, it's a combination of things that'll help you look and feel your best, honestly. It's really individual. Something as small as for me, I get a manicure every three weeks. Okay. The reason I do that is because I feel more put together with my nails done. Okay. And while I'm doing, like I do my manicure, for example, on like Sundays, which are my parasympathetic days, which I can get into as well.

46:52But that's like, you know, that's one thing. Then parasympathetic days as an example. Okay. So that is the one day a week where I take rest, right? Because I'm someone who's very go, go, go. And I got to the point where I was like, I'd get into the week, like the weekdays. And I was like, wait a minute. Like, I don't even feel like I like had a weekend like I was so wrapped up in like social things and work and you know being productive even on the weekend and so I'm a very data-driven person and so I was like okay I want to work on my HRV and resting heart rate I wonder if I like introduce a day where I'm taking intentional rest if that will help me and that's like being high maintenance in order to feel better so that's what I tried so my parasympathetic day is essentially like that day of intentional rest.

47:37I'm doing things that like really nourish my nervous system. I'm not doing things that are like, I have no social plans on Sundays. Like it is like a hard note. Like I am not going out to dinner, lunch, like with friends, like none of that. I agree with that. I think that's a, it should be a hard and fast rule for us all. It's a day of rest. It's a day of rest. Okay. So like, that's, that's what I do that day. I'm like, you know, if I'm doing any meal prep, I'll do it that day. And like that's I do that because I enjoy that. OK, like if I didn't enjoy that, I wouldn't do it. Right. What else? Like I'm doing any personal appointments.

48:10I go for a massage every couple of weeks and I do that on Sunday evening. My sleep is unreal after that. So those are things that I'm doing. But I have this day there. And I do think it's like, quote unquote, high maintenance. But that helps you throughout the week feel your best. So the parasympathetic day is like another really easy one. Making sure that I get my brows done. You know, it's like you schedule that appointment once for me every five weeks and then I'm like good to go. Laser. Like, do you know how much time it saves me to not have to like shave or like wax? Dear Lord, like a laser appointment is like 15 minutes and I'm hairless.

48:47Yeah. You know, so it's like little things like that. It's essentially like things that allow you to like look the way you want, feel the way you want and then save time in the long run. because I'm all about efficiency. And yeah, like I still want to look and feel my best. I still want to look feminine and feel like feminine, you know, in that sense. And like, I love clothes and I love to look nice, you know, but I also love to be like a boss. Yeah. So I completely get that. And I think that one of the things as well that I would say on top of that is like those things, you don't need to make, be making a decision to do those things every time.

49:22Like the amount of things that should just be recurring in your schedule and like in your diary is like the large majority of things like even agree like my nail appointment for example is repeating yes like will be blocked out and like booked in full blocks that are like for six months like as long as the nail salon will take the booking I will be booked in for six months time yeah and same with my hair right like I get my hair done every like three to four months and that's booked in advance like as soon as I'm leaving my last appointment I'm booking the next one and it has made my life so easy that way I'm not scrambling last minute because you know there's like that feeling when your hair is clearly in need of help but you've waited too long and then you can't get the appointment with the person you want and then you go somewhere bad nails exactly same with nails It's like, you know, you need to know the exact day they start to look ropey.

50:18Yes. And then also for me, I like I go to a specific nail technician who's quick. If I don't get him, what am I going to do? Spend two hours there? No. So if you are able to plan in advance and like know these things, I feel like you're more efficient. Yeah. No, I totally agree. I think one thing that I always think when talking about things like this, like I don't know if you feel like this as well, but like anytime I talk about my nails as a woman, then I instantly have this like and I'm talking like oh this is something I want to do and I need to do and all of that I instantly kind of have this perception of myself that like this is the only thing I care about and at the same time I'm someone who wants to do these things and likes to do these things as part of my upkeep and I agree they help me you know get out of bed and feel put together quicker and all of that and at the same time I'm grappling with the fact that I I don't know I don't know if you feel this as well like when you start talking about like beauty things I'm suddenly like I feel differently about how I don't know if it's like internalized misogyny or whatever because we hear I don't know what it is so you know I think it's really interesting and I think that I don't think we're one-dimensional beings right and I don't know Like, it's so funny because when a guy is like has a high powered job and then they want to watch a football game on a Sunday, no one says anything to them.

51:43Right. Even though that could be perceived as something that's so like trivial, you know, like, why are you spending all this time watching TV? That's so unproductive. Right. And yet no one bats an eye. Right. And so what that says is that we aren't one dimensional beings. And frankly speaking, I think it's so boring to have one interest. Like for me, I love that I'm able to go to a dinner party and I'm able to talk about business and I know my shit. But at the same time, like if you ask me what was on the fall runways, I can tell you that, you know, like I think it just it's so much more interesting.

52:18And that's what I've learned about people, that interesting people that you love to have conversations with, they're not just people you can speak to about work. They have interests outside of that. They have books that they're reading and not just business books. Again, they can talk to you about all kinds of different topics. They have hobbies. They have a life, you know, because, again, I keep asking myself, like, why else have I been put on this earth? And I think also what helps balance it out is or like why I feel this way is I grew up around. My dad is like extremely successful. He's had a business his whole life and it's like a large business, you know, and I grew up seeing him work his ass off.

52:58And yet he's always played a sport, always his whole life. And he never let his business get so important that he didn't have time for that and also that he didn't have time for his family at the end of the day. so I've always been like okay it is possible in fact to be successful but have interests outside of work and it's not trivial and it's not stupid and I know that we've been conditioned to feel so guilty about enjoying these things and it's like stupid no it's not stupid if it's not stupid if you like it I know and also what's so funny and when I talk to my friends about this type of thing that thing it's like we've been conditioned not only to enjoy these things but also to to need these things and to be only taken seriously if we present ourselves in a certain way and we look like if I turn up to a meeting with like no makeup on and like like I'm not saying this should be the case at all but if I turn up to a meeting no makeup on my hair not styled and like I don't know just like very casual I promise you I will be taken less seriously than if I look the part and it's like you cannot condition people to like something and also mandate them to like something and need to get it done or be interested in it or upkeep it or whatever and then also judge them for partaking in it it's like it's a wild cycle it's ridiculous i totally agree and i i bring it up because it's like why am i thinking like this which makes no sense it's like why because you've been conditioned to think exactly like it's like it's like it's not it's not your fault like you didn't just you weren't born with these thoughts yeah and i think it's so funny because it's exactly that that like leads to the kind of need to be almost a little bit pick me in terms of like oh no I'm not interested in getting my nails it doesn't you don't need to be interested in getting your nails done you also don't need to be interested in getting your hair done or looking a certain way or being high maintenance to be low maintenance or whatever but it should not be it's stigmatized either way you shouldn't have a knee-jerk reaction or feel like you're better than someone else because like then what about those girls who are like mean to the girl who doesn't you know what I mean like we can't be mean to each other like I think we just have to respect that everyone has different interests and like as long as you're showing up to the world as like a kind, good person.

55:05Like who the heck is yours? I know. I completely, completely agree with you. The market's uncertain. Revenue's tied and hiring on hold. That's why results-driven companies are using Upwork to keep work moving. Go to Upwork.com today and start hiring proven freelance talent fast. No bulky overhead. No rigid long term contracts. Just the right expert right when you need them. Work smarter and faster with Upwork. Go to Upwork.com now and find your freelance expert. That's upwork.com. Post a job for free and get started today.

55:44And I really, really like your content and kind of what you've said around the fact that interesting people have hobbies and interesting people do interesting things. Firstly, if you don't have a hobby, because I'm not even sure I do have a hobby. I like to do lots of things. I don't know if I have a hobby. How do you find a hobby? Like how do you find something you enjoy especially when like there's so many things that we have to concentrate on well I think it's just about asking yourself what are the things that you like outside of work you know and I think like it doesn't have to be something you know crazy like learning a new language or pottery like it doesn't have to be that it like do you like to read if so that's your hobby you know like dedicate a little bit of time to it every day because it brings you joy You know, it's just things to stimulate you outside of work, you know, like, as I said, and, you know, I think everyone can think about this.

56:34You know, when you go to a dinner party and someone's first question is, oh, what do you do? I think it's so boring. I'm like, is that really like all we're going to talk about right now? Because that's really boring. And then you meet these people who are like, they're able to talk about a range of different things. Right. Or like, did you see this that's been happening in the news? Or like, did you see, you know, like whatever it might be? Whatever it may be. Right. And I think also that way, if you have different interests, you're able to have things in common with different groups of people.

57:05And I think it makes you a much more richer person if you are able to have ties with all kinds of different people. Right. Like I have friends, for example, who all we do is chit chat about like girly things, you know, like makeup tips and this and that. other friends who it's all about fitness other friends who it's a very much business you know or like a range of different things but yeah like to go back to your question I think just ask yourself what it was that you were interested in or like maybe you've you like did an activity and you kind of like really liked it it can be even cooking right like you don't need to take a class for that like you do that you know for yourself anyway right and so maybe that's a skill that you want to improve upon or maybe you want to take a sundae to like really work on a new recipe right or maybe you really like to have people over for dinner so maybe like once every few months you have like a themed dinner party right so there's like so many different things you can do it can be even something like oh trying new restaurants is your hobby that's a hobby you know like i think we make it like a big thing in our brains that like oh you know a hobby needs to be this like complex skill that you cultivate.

58:13Maybe some of them are, but others not really. And I think also with age, your hobbies are allowed to change. Like, for example, I never thought I'd be this person, but I really got into art history. So now when I travel, like baked in days where I'm going to different art museums, my husband and I were both the same way. We love this. So we love going on art history tours. So I would say that's a hobby too. And if I had more time, maybe I'll do an art history course, you know, right now, that's not the hobby that I'm focusing on. But you know what I mean? Like it changes. Yeah, I'm totally with you.

58:45And another question I'd ask you on that is, what if you are the type of person who is getting interested in hobbies and interested in, I don't know, doing things other than maybe in the UK, for example, going to the pub all the time, or like, only doing things like that. And all of your friends are not and are very specifically, maybe only hanging out in one certain place or only speaking about certain types of things. What would you advise to someone like in that situation who wants to generally level up their life but currently feels like maybe the people they surround themselves with aren't interested in that at all?

59:20So I don't think you have to abandon those friends. I think you can still go to the pub and still have those experiences. But I think what it will do for you if you do start to cultivate a different interest is you will find more people with those interests, right? So you can retain those friends, but you're adding to your play, right? Like you're just like adding people to your life. And like, I think that that again, makes things so much more robust because I like, if your friends are good people, even if they're going to the pub, they're never going to judge you for skipping out on it once every now and then, because you have another interest.

59:56In fact, they'll be like really supportive. I'm sure. Maybe they're even curious to hear about what you're doing. But if that's not the case, like, you know, even if your friends don't care about your hobby, you'll find other friends who care about a hobby, right? Like if you're starting a new class or whatever it is, you will find people there. Like if, for example, you're all of a sudden into Pilates and you're trying different studios, you'll find friends at the studio and, you know, maybe you guys go get a matcha afterwards or whatever it is, right? So I don't think you should ever feel like you're holding yourself back from exploring interests because of the people in your life.

1:00:27I think that if there's, you know, supportive, good people, they'll still continue to be there. Your relationship with them may evolve. That's not a bad thing. I think you can still continue to continue to be a good friend. Just your interests are different. The same way that if your job changes, right? Think about it. You're not going to stay in your job if you have another opportunity just because of your friends, you know, like that's crazy. You may move on to the different job and you'll still have that relationship, but maybe it'll be a little bit different. Yeah. Yeah. No, that makes total sense.

1:00:55And I want to answer a few listener questions before we end, because I put this on my story. I'm talking about this type of thing. And I got so many questions. So I picked out a few. The first one is, I so want to have my shit together and do all these high maintenance things. But at the same time, I'm trying to save and keep my career going. And I can't spend thousands on like these treatments. How do I do this on a budget? So I have a video on TikTok. And it's like basically high maintenance things that are free. and you can absolutely do most of these things at home okay like if you don't have the money to go get a facial for example like see what skincare products you have at home and just like have a nice night with skincare right if you can't do your nails you can do like press-ons they're like so cheap right and they last for weeks like there's an incredible brand called quickies for example or even OPI has press-ons.

1:01:47All these brands have press-ons. They're like 10 pounds probably, right? Like so, so, so, so cheap. You know, if for example, you don't want to pay for a gym membership, go walk, go like do YouTube workouts for the longest time. So in college I had gained all of this weight and I was so unhealthy. I became my fittest, like from there it became so much fitter and like the healthiest that I'd been from free Pilates called blogilates. on YouTube free. I know it's so funny because I actually my whole first year working out and like before I got into the gym I didn't like my parents did not believe in gym memberships at all like I remember hearing them speak about things and being like why would anyone get a gym membership when the outside exists and like that was just their thing and so that was kind of like in my head my entire first year of working out was on like my living room floor and we had a cd player and there was only one CD there like as in there was literally because we didn't use it but it didn't have Bluetooth connection it was only connected to the TV so I would like put this same it was fucking like Bon Jovi living on a prayer and I had that same fucking CD for an entire year worked out at home and I genuinely was in the best shape of my life every time I'm thinking like oh but this is difficult this do I'm like get on the floor like get on the floor it's true and I really you know I think that we see all of these things on social media and we put a lot of pressure on ourselves to be like I have to spend all of this money you don't you can like really if you evaluate every single thing that people are doing a lot of it you can achieve for like free or like a very nominal amount of investment so I feel like you don't need to feel all this pressure to spend money you can still level up you can still glow up for very cheap and another one is how can I integrate a so-called hot girl routine into my life maintainably so not something that takes up a lot of time.

1:03:40So I think it's a lot of what we talked about. And honestly speaking, I think everything that we've shared in this episode, these are not things that take hours and hours. It's about your non-negotiables. I really do think that's what it is. Identify like two to three things that you want to bring in as a practice that maybe won't take a long time. It can be cumulatively like one hour. I think most people have like 30 minutes, 10 hour to spend on themselves to like up level. Maybe that's again, like maybe that's even listening to a book or a podcast while doing your dishes. You know, like that's a hot girl routine thing where you're like leveling up and you're absorbing this information, but you're doing it while doing the dishes.

1:04:20I do that all the time. I also feel like one of the biggest things that's changed for me this year is like I've been consciously really layering in habits to my routine. And I've kind of like always done that. I'm a big believer in habit theory and always have been. But I've been I've noticed the point at which they've become a habit because what I've done at the beginning point of making them a habit is I put them into my iPhone reminders so that every day it pops up like for example at 7 30 in the morning it says to take my apple cider vinegar with hot water and then like a specific bedtime pops up and my specific supplements and like all of that like it pops up on my phone and now I've started seeing them and I've instantly crossed them because I've already done it like it's obviously become a habit and then I was like well now I want to layer on these things so I've removed the previous reminders because they're so integrated into my routine and added other ones and then it's like that is exactly like habit stacking is so beneficial and you can just stack one thing on top of the other like now honestly it's so funny I look so LA me coming down in the morning I come downstairs I make myself first of all I down a celery juice which has been really useful for my inflammation and then I have my apple cider of vinegar and hot water and then I put my red light mask on while I prepare my breakfast obviously I can't eat my breakfast with it on but that's it's like a four-step process if I'd tried to set that for myself three months ago six months ago I would have just like forgotten half of them and be like that's a ridiculous morning routine I just layered one at a time like it's literally just being like one at a time then it will become a habit after like a month or two and then you layer another one and I feel like all of that stuff it it takes like I mean it's literally a drink.

1:05:59It's not actually taking a lot of time. Exactly. I think habit stacking is like one of the easiest hacks. And I think like if you're able to identify the one thing that you want to add in, it just doesn't feel so overwhelming. Right. Like, you know, whatever it is, like maybe that's celery juice for you. Maybe it's a red light mask. Like think of how you can seamlessly integrate it into your routine. Yeah. I'm with you. And there's a question here on mouth tape. Do you use mouth tape? I don't, but it's because I sleep with my mouth closed. So you're a natural nose breather. I'm a natural nose breather, but my friend Lauren has the Skinny Confidential and everyone on my team loves that mouth tape.

1:06:37Well, so it's basically saying is mouth tape worth it? It was in my DMs. I actually, since I've started using mouth tape, I have not stopped and I will not go to sleep without it on and I find it so transformative like both in terms of the how deep my sleep is like I'll go to bed and I'll wake up and I'll be like whoa yeah and also I swear it has helped my face shake yeah like I swear it's like snatched my jaw yes it does so it's so funny when so I have like a group chat with Lauren my husband and her husband Michael and when she released mouse tape she like sent over this picture of like people who use mouth tape and like or not mouth tape but like sleep with their mouths open versus closed and it really does have like a scientific impact in terms of like the shape of your job well because we we know that like as in like mouth breathing is a lot like as in mouth breathing is a lot worse worse for you and i think i've realized basically that i am clearly a natural mouth breather sadly it feels embarrassing but like i'll be at the gym and i'll notice myself breathing through my mouth and then i'm like trying to correct it but I feel like since I've done this like I've genuinely noticed a difference but I feel like again it's one of those things where that will not be worth it for you if you already are a natural nose breather so seeing everyone using it online and being like oh my god I need to use this you don't if you don't but I would I mean I would personally recommend someone to try especially if you like snore or think you're exactly yeah I completely agree and I think what you're saying that's like so important for people to understand that you're not going to need everything that people are doing people are recommending things based on things that work for them i would i've never used mouse tape i understand the scientific benefits of it and i do recommend it of course for people who are mouse breathers or have issues with that if they snore absolutely but if not you don't need it take it out like why are you using it it's the same as like that question about like having a maintainable hot girl routine it's like if your skin is absolutely perfect do not be like unless you really enjoy it like do not be spending a lot of it like your money on like I don't know Botox or skincare or like red light masks or like any of this stuff like just wear some SPF like please wear some SPF we should all be wearing SPF but like other than that it's like genuinely just because everyone else has a 10-step routine you don't need that like focusing on the things that you do feel like would have a marginal gain in your routine overall I feel like it's important I feel like it's so easy to get swept up in this like I need this and I need this and now this is trending and now I need this and it's like no no no a hot girl routine is based on the things that you can upkeep and you think that would make a genuine difference to your life without like transforming your life so much that you can't upkeep it agree I feel like that to me is the like essential agree the sweet spot last question what glow up tips are not worth it oh this is a good one hmm what would you say i'd say botox if you're too young i've got botox for a while now and i think it was like money down the drain for the first like three four years so i went to an injector a couple of years ago and they refused to inject me really oh I love that because she was like so this was one woman and she's like you come back to me in like two years or so you don't you like barely have a line on your forehead and like your skincare routine is great you just keep using retinol and then I had Dr.

1:10:10Jason Diamond who's like the top plastic surgeon here in LA and he was like you don't need anything right now so yes like absolutely I think be again I think it goes back to what we were talking about just understand what it is that you need, right? Because like, what's worth it to you may not be worth it to me, vice versa. You know what I mean? So I think just like individually being like particular about that, I agree with you. Like, I don't need Botox right now. Will I get it? Yeah, probably. But just not right now. Yeah. And that's okay. I'm trying to think of what else. This might be a little bit controversial, but I would say cryotherapy.

1:10:44Oh, okay. Because cold Plunging, first of all, the benefits are way more scientifically sound. And so I think people pay a lot of money to go into cryotherapy chambers. And I think you can get more benefits from like a cold shower or a cold plunge. That's a good one. But it's like niche, you know, not everyone's going into a cryotherapy chamber. I think a big one for me is having a skincare routine that's too many snaps. Am I all right? Snaps. that's too many steps because I so many things cancel each other out and so many things pill on top of each other like you don't genuinely like how many of those things do you think your skin is actually absorbing I feel like that's really really really important and I feel like I've really reduced my skincare routine over the past few months and it's definitely been first of all I've been able to keep more of an eye on what's working and what's not working but I also just feel like in general it's like half the shit I've bought I feel like I've just piled on top of my face and then it's just like come off yeah I completely agree with you I think that there was this phase where skincare over consumption was a very real thing and then you'd be using like a hundred different things and you're like wait why am I breaking out well it's because you used everything and also I don't know which one it was because I used them all I agree with you my skincare routine is now I think like morning is like three steps or four steps yeah time like three or four steps like very easy we have this amazing product in the uk i work with them but i've used them for like over two years now and they're so so so good it's the thing called skin and me and it's basically like it's prescription grade skincare and it's like you go in and fill out this massive like questionnaire on their site and then it's specifically based on that basically like what your things are so when i first started using that i'd been spending so much on skincare like so many different things and then I started using that and it had like tretinoin in it I'm pretty sure it had niacinamide in it like a few things for my acne and scarring and like all of that and I was just using that between cleanser and moisturizer and I remember when I started using it I was like I'll be annoyed if this works because I won't be able to buy skincare I was like I won't be able to enjoy that thing where I love going to like a shop and like going around and buying skincare and all of that and I was like I'll be annoyed if this works and it works so well and I was like okay now my skincare officially isn't a thing like my skincare has decided like it's just not a thing it just happens now that's not an area I consume in anymore and like moved on from there and I was kind of like annoyed but I was also like that type of thing like it doesn't need to be that but like whatever that is for you that almost makes that part of your routine obsolete because it is just a rinse and repeat you save so much time and before we end what would you say the best piece of advice is that you've ever received.

1:13:41Oh, best piece of advice I've ever received. Okay, it's going to be business related, but it comes top of mind. But again, I have a little story. So this is right before we launched Array. I was in London to do podcast interviews and I finished an interview or like right before I went into an interview, my husband sent me a picture of all our bottles that had been delivered. And there was a printing error in terms of the color of the box. Okay, I was completely off and I was like absolutely devastated and it was the labels. OK, so essentially had we wanted to switch the labels, we'd either have to de-label it and then wait for the new ones to come in and re-label everything, which would set our launch back like months.

1:14:27Or we would just we we had the option to go to market as was, even though I thought the branding was shit. It just wasn't exactly what I wanted. So anyway, I did this podcast interview. she like owns a beauty brand and afterwards I was like well I'm here I may as well ask her opinion and I showed her the picture and I was like do you think that we should just like relabel the whole thing and like push launch by a few months and she's like are you insane just launch with what you have and you can always make that change for the next batch but just go to market and so I feel like that was one of the best pieces of advice that I received because oftentimes when it comes to launching something, we put a lot of pressure on ourselves to get it absolutely perfect.

1:15:10And like there's certain things that do need to be perfect. Like as an example, our formula was perfect. If there was something wrong with the formula itself, then that would be a different conversation. But things like branding, things like website, it doesn't need to be perfect. Just go to market as quickly as possible. Everything you can iterate. Everything is iteratable. OK. Yeah. So I feel like, yeah, like I think that's like a big piece of advice that I would give to everyone and like it's a it's an advice that like it's been years since this conversation and I will remember it for the rest of my life yeah I could not agree more and I feel like one of the biggest parts of that as well is because there are so many things you are going to learn from that customer getting that product that you don't even know you're going to learn yeah like you don't even know you could learn they might be the things that you are hard-lined this is the thing you would put all your money on and you are going to learn it and it's like you have to like it's actually funny because I there was this girl on TikTok who'd posted about a cosmetics brand and she'd had that issue and they printed the wrong color of the or I think she hadn't noticed that the spoolie inside this like eyelash thing was going to be the same color as the text so you couldn't really see the text because it was on top of the spoolie and she did this video and she was just like should I like just sink that money and do it or should I launch to all of this and I was literally like commenting like I was like launch it you will learn so much like do not even think about this no one's even gonna they'll probably be like oh I can't really read it they're not gonna be like I am never gonna buy this brand again like this is terrible like crazy where like I remember when we were launching it I was like oh like no one's gonna post this on Instagram I know literally everyone did yeah I was like oh clearly people didn't notice this like little thing that was this is horrendous yeah yeah and I was like this is it Like we're failing before we're even.

1:16:52You like tell yourself these things and they're all lies. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes done is better than perfect. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for joining me. You have been so incredible. And I feel like we hit the nail on the head with what I wanted from this podcast. And I hope people have got a good hot girl walks out of it. I hope so, too. Thank you so much for having me. This was so fun.

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