Ep. 127 Everything You Need To Know To Sort Out Your Finances & Make The Most Of Your Money

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1:40What is up and welcome back to Working Hard Hardly Working. I'll be honest, I've been peer pressured into creating this episode, but it was so fun to do. After our New Year compilation episode about improving your life went crazy, I asked what other kind of theme-led episodes that you would like. and so so many of you said you wanted an addition on finances, money, moolah. So the aim for this episode is everything that you need to know about money and I took this as a wide definition so we're going from literally why money exists and why you can't print more money for the boys out there to saving, investing, raising funds and even some deep stuff on attitudes to money and wealth.

2:16A lot of this kind of stuff is things that we were never taught in school and it is crazy to me that I know more about algebra than I do about how to spend and save my own money wisely. So this is as much for School Me as it is for you. And I wanted to make this as an episode that could just be a great resource that links all of these episodes together, gives a little bit more insight into money and investing and finances and attitudes on these different things so that we can all feel empowered to do what we need to do with our money. It is important to know things and to have the knowledge to be able to make empowered decisions on what you want to do with your money and your life.

2:52Before we get into the podcast, if you could just go and rate this on whichever podcast app you are listening to this on, it makes a huge difference to the podcast and the types of incredible conversations we're able to have, the types of guests we're able to get on. So no, it's probably something you don't think about. But if you could just go rate it now or follow it, it makes a huge difference. Thank you so much.

3:16Okay, so we're starting with the basics. All the way back in 2023, I had Rupal Patel, a senior economist at the Bank of England on the podcast. And the brief was to ask all the stupid questions that you've never asked to create a guide for anyone who knows nothing about the economy. So we are starting with a couple of quillips from that episode to really ease us in. This is Rupal on what money actually is. So over the years, money has been loads of different things. It's been shells, chocolate, teeth, cigarettes, pretty much, you know known objects and it might have been considered money in some points in history teeth um and at the moment you know it might be cash but also it's credit cards and now it's even things like phones and your watches um and really what it is is a system of trust if everyone believes that something is worth a certain amount and you can exchange it for something that is worth a similar amount and everyone and you can use that money um at any point in time with anyone in an economy, then it's money.

4:19And why is it a trusted system then, if it just relies on people's trust? Because surely then if people just turn around, they were like, don't really see the value of that number in my account anymore. I mean, you can't think money to not existing. You can in some way, but you need a lot of people to think in the same way. So at the moment, all our money is backed by trust in the central bank that's just the bank of england and at the bank of england we make sure that you know that fiver in your pocket is worth five pounds year in year out and you can go to the shops and buy five pounds of worth of things but if you don't believe in it and a lot of people don't then that paper is worthless and we've seen it in other countries before where you see currencies collapsing um and people having to use other things to pay for it usually they go for of say dollars because it's more kind of you can use it more widely in different countries um but luckily in the uk sterling has held up as kind of the money of choice and this is rupal on the question we all want to ask but feel dumb to say out loud which is why don't we just print more money we all need more money why not just print more money well we can but we really shouldn't so by giving everyone a bit more money you might think you might be able to buy more stuff so if i just gave you you know double the amount of money in your account but i did it for everyone it actually caused inflation which is really bad because you've got too much money chasing too fewer goods and that increases actually the price of them so much so that actually you're not better off you might even be worse off and we've seen where this has gone really wrong for some countries so i don't know you might have seen images in um of countries like zimbabwe where people are buying like loaves of bread using wheelbarrows and money and perhaps it still might not be enough.

6:07So if we print too much money, we get too much inflation. So obviously we can't just print more money all the time or just blanket give everyone like an injection of money. I mean, interestingly, I know they did that in terms of like the stimulus checks in the US in COVID times. Do those types of things cause inflation? Yes, but sometimes inflation might be needed. Actually, we did something similar here in the UK. Yeah. They've actually done quite a few times. The Bank of England have actually printed money and they did it actually during the COVID crisis as well in 2020 when the Bank of England thought that the economy actually needs simulating and people did need to spend more.

6:44Because even though high inflation is really bad, actually having something called deflation where prices are falling can be just as bad. Okay. Which is quite surprising. But, you know, if you think about if you're wanting to buy, I don't know, a new pair of jeans or something and you know next day they're going to go on sale and so they're going to be cheaper, you're going to put off buying that pair of jeans. Right. So then if you know next week it's going to be even cheaper and the week after that, you're just never going to buy that pair of jeans. If that happens across the whole economy, no one spends any money and actually the economy gets smaller and smaller.

7:18And that could be even worse than sometimes having too much inflation. Okay, so now we know what money is, it's time to actually get onto what you should be doing with it. I spoke to Anna Harvigson, founder of Female Invest, all about saving and making money. This was a short, sharp and to the point episode all about the basics of what you actually need to be doing with your money and investing in general. This clip is her talking about whether it's better to be saving or making money, which actually really changed my mindset and felt so opposite to what I think a lot of us are taught and told.

7:49Of course, the reality is that there are all different walks of society and all different walks of privilege and different people will have a different perception of this. I think the best thing you can do is listen to this and work out if that identifies with you and with the current job you're in or the background you're from, the environment you're operating in so that you can work out whether actually do you know what no number one I need to be focusing on saving or actually no I need to be focusing on how I can get more money in income so that it makes saving a lot easier for me. And look a lot of this is incredibly complex and I think we could speak all day about the morality around a lot of this and disparities in wealth but what I really want to do with this podcast is to give you as much knowledge as possible so that you can make the decisions that you feel are appropriate for your situation.

8:32I've had a lot online of people debating whether it is easier for most people to save more money to gain wealth or to make more money to gain wealth. I know that's an overly simplified view because obviously totally depends on the situation. If you were talking to someone and their main aim overall was to build wealth, would you recommend that they save more or that they go out to find more ways to make it? So as you say, it's definitely a bit simplified. So the real answer would be a combination. But I also will say that if you don't know how to manage your money, then there is almost no amount or no salary that will save you if you have bad money management skills.

9:14We usually say in Female Invest that if you don't know how to manage£100, you won't know how to manage£100 ,000. And I actually saw a statistic recently, I forgot the exact numbers, but the key takeaway was that there is a shocking amount of people who make very high salaries who still live paycheck to paycheck, because then maybe they put themselves in too expensive housing, they have too expensive habits, they don't know how to invest all of these things. So definitely getting financially literate and not just saving, but being intentional about your money is more important than whatever salary you make in the first place.

9:51And so if you were starting a job, say you were starting your first salary job, what would you be doing with that income? Obviously, assuming that it's not going to be the highest salary because obviously just starting out, what would you decide to do with that money? So we like to use a framework called the 50-30-20 rule. And following this framework, around 50 % of your income should go to fixed expenses, so rent, electricity and so on. 30 % to present you, so living life, having fun. And then 20 % to future you, which is a mix of saving and investing. And of course, we know everyone's situation is different, especially right now in this cost of living crisis.

10:30So you can also adapt this framework to your own personal situation. but I think it's a nice way of thinking about it, having these three categories because if you're not mindful about it, then I think it's very, very easy to end up, you know, spending more than you want to. And when you look back through your bank statements, a lot of it maybe wasn't intentional. So it's about spending money where it actually gives you value. Anna's answer was so good. I feel like her episode is really a hidden gem in the archives. And next up is an episode that appeared on our latest compilation, but this is a different clip that absolutely had to be here.

11:01I direct so many people to this episode because if you want to know about investing, you have to listen to it. And I feel like so much financial advice you get online is coming from the perspective of someone who's already incredible with their money. So what I really wanted to get into with Simran is how you sort yourself out if your finances aren't exactly where you want them to be. And here is her genius take on how to tackle your debt. So when it comes to debt, there's two ways that you can deal with it. There's the snowball method and the avalanche method. And all you have to do is you have to get pen and paper, write down, this is the hardest part, writing it down, but write down all the debt that you have.

11:38So do I have car debt? Do I have pay loan debt? Do I have anything that's like on a personal credit card that's more than 7 %? Write it all down. Do I have an IOU with someone? And then next to it, put down all the interest rates on that debt. So maybe some is like 4%, some is 10%, some is 25%. And write down on a third column how much money is in that. So, you know, is it a$3 ,000 loan? Is it a$15 ,000 loan? And depending on what you prefer, some people like to do the snowball method where they line it up based on the smallest debt that they have to the largest, and then they pay it off that way.

12:19And what's good about that, that's what I personally like, is you build momentum because you're like okay I got rid of the two thousand dollar debt now I feel encouraged and inspired to tackle the ten thousand dollar one and then eventually when you get to the fifty thousand dollar one you're like I'm making progress it's it's good and then you've got the avalanche method which is where you write it all down based on what debt has the highest interest rate because that's going to cause you to lose more money and you pay that off more quickly nothing is more powerful than accountability so tell someone make it a google doc and share it with your best friend and say, hey, every month I want you to come and check and make sure I have crossed these off.

12:57And if I haven't, please say something. And I think this is the hardest one of all. This is probably the hardest tip that I've ever had to share, but tell someone that you're in debt. It's not easy and we feel shame, but I truly believe, and I know it's easy to say now in the financial position that I'm in, but I don't believe that my worth has anything to do with how much money I have. If I was in hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt, I'm still a worthy person. I'm still a good friend. I can still go and tell my friends and have fun, but tell your friends so that they can help you and hold you accountable.

13:31When I was in a position where I needed to get better with money, I would go to like, my friends keep bringing this one story up. I don't even remember it. They're like, you came to get ice cream with us and you just didn't buy ice cream. And you just sat with us watching us eat ice cream. and they're like we felt so bad for you but that was my choice I wanted to save I had a goal to get rid of debt or I had to go to you know save up for something else and your friends will understand and if they don't that's a blessing to let go of friends that aren't here to help you in your journey one thing I really want to say with debt too is that I get so many messages from people who are currently struggling with debt struggling with clearing their debt realizing they're in debt, whatever it might be, and feeling really alone and ashamed about it.

14:18And I feel like first of all, that's why I really wanted to do that episode with Simran and actually spend some time deep diving into the idea of debt, how you clear it, how you remove shame around it, all of that. But I also just really want to say that because I think it's really easy to think when you are in debt of all different kind of sizes that you are completely alone and that it is your fault and all of these different kind of like stigmatized views on it. I see so many messages on it and so many questions on it and that is why I made the episode but also just know that like step by step day by day you've got this and you are moving in the right direction as long as you're taking action but I think the worst thing you can do is feel this kind of head in the sand shame about it so that's why I really wanted to see this episode.

14:59But now we have covered money, saving, debt and we are moving on to investing. We're gonna stick with Sim for now as she had some really incredible advice on why you should be investing and how to educate yourself on it. It was those research papers. It was reading about what was going on and it was understanding how I learned things, which, you know, for so long was like, okay, well, what does the data say? And okay, actually, wait, people trying to pick and choose individual shares, that's what you read online or what you, you know, watch movies about as the best way to make money. But that's not true because all the studies find that even the most qualified investors in the world, the people that are fund managers for some of the largest funds in the world that are ivily educated, 92 % to 98 % of them don't beat the market over a 15-year period.

15:51Wow. 92 % to 98 % of them don't beat the market. And so we think that maybe I should try and pick and choose what's doing well or maybe I'm really interested in this company and that company, But if the best of the best can't do it well, this is their job, then I'm going to realize, well, maybe I should just put my money in funds and diversify and have a little bit of a portfolio, maybe 5 % to 10 % of speculative investments, which is a jargon way of saying picking and choosing companies. But when you look at that, then suddenly everything else just becomes noise. Do you think there's a part of that, though, that makes it a little bit scary to get into investing?

16:29Like if someone told me that the people who were highly qualified were not beating the market, I'd be like, oh, well, there goes my chance. That's a really good point, actually. When people say beating the market, what it essentially means is, well, if I can't beat the market, maybe I should invest in the market. And so I think that's the way I took it. But if you look at the results of a fund called the S &P 500, which is just the top 500 companies in the US, so it's like your Apple and your Amazon and your Google and your Microsoft, the performance of that fund over a 40-year period has its ups and downs.

17:09So you've got the GFC, you've got the Gulf War, you've got the dot-com bubble, COVID-19 recently. But the trend of it eventually is an upwards trend with lots of little ups and downs throughout. And what the data shows and the papers show is, well, actually, if you invest in the market, just in that, that's a much better way of hedging your risk than trying to pick and choose. Incidentally, investing was actually one of my biggest goals this year. And I've invested my money probably for about eight years now. But I've not spent a lot of time really trying to educate myself on all of the different areas of investing.

17:47And if I'm honest, I just haven't really felt knowledgeable. on a lot of it despite having talked to a lot of these amazing people so it's been one of my goals this year to really like surround myself with it read up on it more so that I feel empowered to make the right decisions with my money and really understand the markets and all of that so I do think that episode's amazing what I would also recommend that I put on my Instagram story recently is that in the same way we think about surrounding ourselves with amazing people like we talk about how you become just like the five people who you are closest to we spend so much time consuming content that I really believe that you become kind of like the content that you consume the most.

18:26And like that really reflects your mindset and your knowledge. And I think that especially with the amount we consume social media, you have to actively surround yourself with the type of content and the type of knowledge that you want to learn. So I would really, really recommend following accounts related to things that you want to get into. For me, for example I've joined Reddit I've followed a load of threads on investing on things like trading two-on-two on general different like stocks and shares emerging technologies all of that just so that and like set up the notifications just so that I get that information through and I think that's one of the best things you can do to really get more knowledgeable about something it's just finding good accounts for things like this and really just surrounding yourself with it we are also actually in the process at the moment as I'm recording this of setting up a working hard hardly working Instagram where we want to be able to like do exactly that, share the type of information that improves your life and like improves your knowledge base so that you can move in the direction you want to move.

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21:35amazing Jason Mahendron. He is a VC investor and a fountain of knowledge when it comes to raising money for companies. There is so much confusion about investment and what does it mean and where can it come from? And I think often it just gets bucketed into, I'm either going to have investment or I'm not going to have investment. And so the way that we think about it, to try to break that down to people is at the start of your journey, if you want to raise capital, the place where people would typically go to is some form of angel type investment. So there might be, if you're fortunate enough to have a network where you can access people from a friends and family perspective, then you can go ahead and do that.

22:15And that will be, it's a great way to get some funding into the business and get off the ground. From there, I think then it's easy to think about it as the stage of business as it grows and split the investment landscape up in that way. So after So that friends and family angel round, that's where lots of people, businesses and founders may look to the venture capital, the VC space. And those are typically funds that are or investors that are looking to back a number of businesses. And often that can be quite technology focused. And often it can be about seeking out the next unicorn and you're really looking for the next big thing.

22:53But what that means inherently is as an investor, some of your businesses may not get there and are less likely to succeed. And then after that stage, we think about the growth capital market more than private equity. And that's where we at Active sit. And the way that we think about that or the way that we would define that is it's businesses that have already proven that there is demand for what they want to do. And now they're looking for capital as well as a like minded partner to scale on that journey before then probably getting into the more traditional private equity space. And in that traditional private equity space, businesses are even larger still.

23:29And often there can be a mix of capital that goes into the business as well as capital that goes out to existing shareholders. is that one of the key defining factors of private equity is the use of debt in that market. And that's really not something that we're doing in the growth capital space and certainly not much of it in the venture capital space. They're typically larger businesses even further still at private equity with debt that can be used in those situations. And then outside of that, there are lots of other options as well, whether those are family offices, whether those are actually just borrowing debt as a business and deciding not to go for an equity type of round.

24:09So that's how we think about the spectrum of investment. And there's lots of complexity and nuance within that. If this is something you're interested in, I have videos on my YouTube going through the pitch checks I use for every funding round that we've done at Tala because people don't actually talk about how to get funding. Now it's time for congratulations because you've reached the fun pep talk part of the episode. You've done your intense economics lesson and now it's time for a bit of motivation that will send you out into the world a newly financially educated and motivated person and if you're wondering what this all is for or why it even matters as a woman it is time for some Vivian 2.

24:43This was a pep talk in like money motivation getting your finances where you want them to be and also not making some mistakes that are pretty not encouraged on social media maybe but like the landscape seems to be suggesting that certain things are a good idea at the moment on social media. They're very much trending. And here's an antidote to that. But I'd love to talk about what you think the effect of the current trad wife movement has on women and their finances. How much time do we have? Okay. So to your point, I think the trad wife movement is incredibly harmful. I am zero out of 10 supportive.

25:25To your point, very different than a homemaker or stay-at-home mom. This is the feminism we fought for, gals. Like, we want to have the right to choose. It wasn't that we all wanted to be in the workplace. It was that we wanted to have the right to choose. And it's the right to choose, do I want to stay home and focus on taking care of the home, taking care of the kids, or do I want to have a corporate career. That's feminism. The trad wife movement comes in with a lot of very patriarchal expectations of serving my husband, which I don't like, because you shouldn't be serving your husband. You should be partners with your husband.

26:09And to see women say, and some of these trad wife are even still working women and they're like ah my paycheck gets deposited into his bank account like are you insane why why would you do that and then because he gives me my energy yeah he like gives me an allowance after my paycheck is deposited into his bank account no that is zero out of ten your rich bff not approved like giving somebody full financial agency over your life is the most dangerous thing you can ever do. I say that for someone, you know, I say this to people who are stay-at-home parents, homemakers, people who work corporate jobs and have double incomes.

26:53Do not let anybody ever have full control over your money because then they will have full control over you. Anybody who has the power to feed you has the power to starve you. And you need to have your own money. With my partner, we use a yours, mine, and our system. So for ours, Our mortgage gets paid out of this pot, our utilities, date night, whatever. But we each have our own money, which is wonderful. Because when he decides to go golfing for the first third time this week, and I find out that golfing is actually very expensive to do, it's his money. He's allowed to go golfing. Enjoy it. He recently found out that lash extensions are$150 a pop.

27:33And he was like, and you gave me a hard time about golfing. It's like, yes, but it's my money. It's my yours, mine, and ours pot. We have different money in different places. We know that we have this money. It's not like it's a secret that I have this secret bank account. It's like we've had an open dialogue about us having money in different places, and we should all have the control to be able to do that. it's not that our grandparents or parents had better marriages or relationships. Our grandmothers, our mothers, weren't even legally allowed to have bank accounts in their own names until 1974.

28:11Grandma couldn't leave. She didn't have any money. And so I get too many DMs from women that are like, I just found out my husband is cheating. I don't even know the password to our bank account. I don't know what we have. I don't know. He's like going to lie to me about this. I don't know what to do. And that happens more often than I'd like to admit. And so I always say, have your own money, regardless of the situation. Do not ever let someone control you. You do not exist to be supporting cast in somebody else's life. You are the main character. And get a prenup. I highly encourage everyone to get a prenup.

28:46and everybody's like, ew, prenups, like your wedding's not going to work or like your marriage is not going to work. Whether or not you write the prenup with a lawyer, you get one. The government just gets to write it. I don't trust the government as far as I can throw them. I don't want them doing anything for me. I will sit down on a sunny day with my husband, with my future husband. We will each have our own attorneys and we will agree to what we want in our prenup. And people are like, well, she's just saying that as a hypothetical. No, my fiance and I are getting a prenup. When we started dating, he made a lot more money than me and he paid for everything.

29:21Dinner, vacation, everything. Over the past few years, I've had the immense privilege and luck and good fortune to have built my business in a way that I am now making much, much more money than he is. But we have been partners on this entire journey. And so we have agreed to this prenup. Going into the relationship, every dollar we each have right now will be split 50-50. During the marriage, everything we each earn, any asset that we have is 50-50. Only carve out being my business. He has a 0 % equity stake in my business and I own 100 % of it. And that's the only thing that I carved out. And I sat down and I was, you know, admittedly, I was a little nervous.

30:07And I'm like, I think we should get a prenup. And this is what I want. He's like, okay, well, like what's the big thing? I was like, well, I built this business from the ground up. No management, no agent, nobody in Hollywood will take me on if for God forbid something happens and my ex-husband owns 50 % of the company. And he as a rational person who loves me. And again, I said this on a sunny day, we were both in good moods. He said, oh, that actually makes a lot of and we're going 50-50 on everything else? I'm like, yeah. And he's like, cool, done. As you say, the risk is not getting a prenup.

30:44The risk is the fact that you're getting one anyway because marriage is a contract and has legal standing. And therefore you're just not choosing it. Correct. And actually it would be such a red flag if he turned around and been like, oh no, I should have 50 % of your business. Like no fucking way. And I don't get to put your job on my resume. Right. I don't get 50 % of that finance job you have. No. The market's uncertain. Revenue's tied and hiring on hold. That's why results-driven companies are using Upwork to keep work moving. Go to Upwork.com today and start hiring proven freelance talent fast.

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31:40And finally, here is Robin Sharma on why actually being rich isn't just about money, although obviously money gives you a huge amount of security and freedom, and there is a huge layer of privilege that goes into that. But what it truly means to be wealthy, according to him, isn't just dollar bills. And I wanted to put this in here as a reminder that money is not an end goal. Of course, it is a huge facilitator in freedom and being able to do what you want to do. And it cannot be understated, I guess, in terms of what it can bring you. But I also think I've spoken to a lot of people on the podcast who have got to the point where their pursuit of money alone has essentially been at odds with their pursuit generally of happiness.

32:24And they've only realized that in hindsight. So I feel like this is always a good thing to remember. Our society has programmed us, chase a mountaintop to make lots of money and then you're rich. Well, I've mentored for over 15 years, celebrated billionaires, sports superstars, entertainment, royalty, movement makers. I can tell you a lot of those people from personal experience are cash rich and they're life poor. A lot of people have a lot of money and that's all they have. So the eight forms of wealth, the first one, personal development, that's a currency. If you are each day a little bit developing and building intimacy with your gifts and your talents, that's a form of wealth.

33:04The second form of wealth, you're wealthless. I know you believe so much in wellness. If you don't have your health, you have no wealth whatsoever. I was once at an event, someone handed me a piece of paper. It said, help is the crown on the well person's head that only the old person can see. Third form of wealth, family. Family is really often we, I don't know what you think, but often we take the people we love the most for granted until we lose them. So the eight forms of wealth is a decision matrix or a framework for a really, for your richest life. And it involves things like productivity.

33:39I agree with you. I think I'm happiest when I feel I'm moving things forward. We could talk about the dopamine release. We could talk about norepinephrine and all this. I think we're meant to progress, but it's when we spend too much time on one thing and forget these eight forms of wealth that I think we run into trouble. So tell me what the eight forms of wealth are. The first one is growth. I don't think a lot of people say, congratulations, Grace, you're meditating and you're working on yourself. You're journaling and you're healing. You're a very rich woman. But it is. I mean, to get to know your primal genius makes you a rich person.

34:15Second one is wellness. To be taking care of your good help. There's lots of chapters in the book on how to do that, like breathe like a samurai, practice the naked sunbathing rule, take a bath in the forest, which is really about forest bathing, shinren yoku, as the Japanese call it. But without good health, nothing matters. You want to increase your income and your impact, get super fit. Third form of wealth, your family life, your friendship life. I mean, to neglect that, there's no point in living in a beautiful mansion, but living there all alone. Fourth form of wealth is your craft. I almost think that hard work right now has a bad reputation.

34:56And I think seeing your work, no matter if you're a barista, you're a grave digger, you're an astronaut, you're an entrepreneur. I mean, all work has dignity. Have you ever been in a coffee shop or walked into a clothing store? Seven people are checked out, they're on their phones, but there's that one person who still has so much pride. They look you in the eye, they're present. They care. They want to deliver value. So seeing your work as a chance to pursue mastery is a currency money can't buy. The fifth form of wealth, I want to acknowledge the fifth form of wealth is money. Money is a form of wealth.

35:31Puts food on the family table, gives you freedom, allows you not to be backed into a corner to make decisions you don't want to do. Sixth form of wealth is your social circle. You want to be around people whose lives you want to be living. Seventh is adventure. Eighth, One of the most important is service. And one element of service is just being a gift giver versus a taker. Help seeing anyone in need or never missing an opportunity to make someone's life better. And that is it. That is our deep dive on finances and investing and all things money. Let me know any other topics that you'd like us to do a compilation episode on.

36:05I was thinking a health specific one could be good or maybe one with like the best business tips or corporate career tips. Like there's lots we can do because we've done so many episodes and I personally love pulling out these compilation episodes. So let me know if that's something you'd be interested in. Thank you so much again for watching and listening. And if you enjoyed, please hit that subscribe button or leave us a lovely review. It means the absolute world.

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