Ep.46 From Childstar To Girlband, TV Broadcaster & Entrepreneur: How To Constantly Evolve With Rochelle Humes

0:00So S Club Junior's then finished. what am I going to do now? Because you hear about these child performers have led a really weird life. So I would hand out leaflets outside of Tesco and feeling really embarrassed because it wasn't glamorous. Now I'm being that person that's handing leaflets and no one wants to take one from. And we were earning good money. But we could all buy ourselves nice cars, we helped our parents. And then it all ended. And so does the money. My mum, she was more than having two parents and then some. However, with my dad, your DNA is your DNA And I think I was always curious And watching Marvin Perrin, this is how it should look But I had a negative feeling towards him for so many years I don't think I'll ever be able to relate to you

0:55What is up guys and welcome back to Working Hard Hardly Working, the podcast today my guest is Rochelle Humes it's like one of those good old kind of like natters like it feels like a just a big catch up and vent on a lot of things social media a lot of things motherhood her original kind of family life becoming famous super young then going back to a quote-unquote normal job then becoming famous again all of this and I'm super grateful to her for just being so open and honest throughout this entire episode and I feel like to be honest it was just a lovely girly chat so I hope you really enjoy this episode as always please make sure to rate like subscribe thumbs up thumbs down whatever you want to do um just you know any type of engagement would be lovely and as always I hope you have a lovely day having risen to fame when she was just 12 years old Rochelle Humes has gone from childhood pop star featuring the band S Club 7 Juniors to becoming a member of the hit UK girl group The Saturdays and now one of the UK's best loved online personalities and TV broadcasters.

1:56Having had it all from such a young age, Rochelle is transparent about the highs and the lows, being raised in a single parent household and understanding the absence her father left on the family, to the hard graft of being in a pop group, meeting her now husband Marvin Humes, member of boy band JLS, and sharing the journey of becoming a mother. This has prompted her online social media journey, sharing her life to over 2 million Instagram followers, and most recently she founded the lifestyle brand My Little Coco, a skin and hair care brand aimed at families featuring in boots thank you so much for joining me thank you and i'm loving this sofa are you yeah well thanks this is only our like second time recording with this one second bum on this it makes me feel very like instagram yeah you know i have one like this in my office and i love it yeah because it's what i would want it my sofa to stay like at home and it would never happen because i've got three kids right and i'm just messy so this i feel i can keep but pristine if it's in my office.

2:52Yeah I completely agree. I want to go back to like the very very beginning so we can have a proper view of your whole career, what happened at each point, how you kind of, I mean hindsight's very helpful I find particularly when like looking at your career and you're like Christ what was I thinking then? Shoulda, woulda, coulda. Yeah exactly. So let's go back to the very beginning and your childhood. Could you just tell me a little bit about what your childhood was like? I loved my childhood actually. I was thinking about this the other day it was just really simple humble beginnings my mum raised me on her own she was a single parent she had me when she was pregnant with me I was in a hostel for a bit with her and then I remember we then got a flat which I loved it's funny isn't it when you look back I think actually my mum was really sort of you know in a situation that she really wouldn't have wanted to be in but all I remember is like I'm like we were in a hostel when I'm thinking about this now if if I if she was on the other foot knowing how she would feel as a parent and an adult yeah it might it's crazy but I just look back at that so fondly and I knew I knew we didn't have a lot but I was so rich in other ways you know my mum was like a powerhouse still is like I remember all of the things that actually stuck out to me and then I remember it being a massive deal when my mum managed to we moved from a council flat into a council house and then she like worked her ass off and bought the house from the council and I remember it being like such a big milestone not understanding it yeah I didn't if you lived in a house you lived in a house I didn't really know if it was somebody's rented I didn't know how it looked right you don't as a child but I remember like it being like a real milestone and such a celebration for I was always just dancing and that was my thing I'd be singing you know Monday to Friday obviously at school and then on the weekend it would just be like singing and dance and drama and then what I'd learn at my little local dance school my mum would have to like buy fake tickets to performances buy one of my tickets um in the evenings and yeah I just remember having a really nice childhood I loved my school and yeah when I look back I don't look back that you know in a way that I think I went without yeah because I think there was so much love and yes there were situations that you know if I could have changed I probably would have done like as an adult maybe in hindsight for me but actually I felt like I had a great childhood and I think all of that experience of us you know of us together my mum and I just made us so like we've got a bond that could never be broken she's literally my best friend and I think it's probably because of all our journey together and what we went through and we were a team you know with my sister at home and that was us and that was how it looked and she worked literally every job under the sun to make us happy and we and we always were yeah yeah and I think it goes to show as well like how much love impacts like how what you feel like you have as a child I mean I grew up in a very privileged environment no one can properly relate to each other you know without having literally been through the same you only know what cards you're right exactly but I think that the presence of like love and showing that like as a child you know we think of like I don't know buying children some like Adidas trainers or whatever like they don't give a fuck like they kind of just want like you know like the love and all of that and I think that has like when you talk about it in that way kind of shows so clearly and you've spoken a lot about like the impact of growing up in a single parent household what effect do you feel like that had on you in terms of your kind of you know the next steps in as you were becoming like a young adult yeah I think it's always that missing piece of the puzzle I think that's what it is I think she was more than having two parents and then some however you know your DNA is your DNA and I think I was always curious and I think my mum did a really good job in almost protecting my dad so I didn't really form any opinion on my dad based on my mum so I just kind of just I knew he went present right because you know kids know who's in their life and who isn't but it was never like your dad is this your dad is that and when I was older I sort of had my I could form my own opinion which I think is so important in And, you know, I've got friends and family members that are co-parenting.

7:31And I get how challenging it can be because I was a product of that. You know, you've got kids together, so you are going to be in each other's life forever, however that looks. And at what capacity that is, you know, is relative. But I think you just have to be able to form your own opinion. Because guess what? No matter how much, if my mum was to slag my dad off all day, every day, I'm still going to want to know him because he's a part of me. and I'm still going to be curious to tap into that side of my life. And whether I'd then actually, God, mum, how did you deal with him? You know, whether that's my opinion, that's mine to have, isn't it?

8:06And not to sort of use your child as a weapon. So I think that's really important. Yeah, no, I can completely understand that. And if you don't mind me asking, did you have a relationship with your dad from there? So I think when I was like less than one, and then I didn't have a relationship for a period of time, I did it was like very sporadic and it would be like okay I'm a back around again I want to see her now and then I would see him for like odd weekends and then it would be then you didn't hear from him again and that was sort of it was a little bit like that until there was literally nothing and then when I reached I want to say about 12 13 I saw him I remember seeing him once then I didn't see him again at all after that and then probably at about 17 I had the curious thing I remember I did not long pass my driving test and I always knew I had a brother but I didn't know about his sisters but obviously they were a lot younger because I'm the eldest um so it was dealing it was seeing them via him right and did they have an active relationship with him um they did at that time yes yeah because he sort of you know to what capacity that you know that's their story but he wasn't yeah he was around for them way more present than he was for me so it was hard to sort of have navigate a relationship with them until they were adult yeah so yeah that was my thing and it's it's weird and then sort of fast forward to years later we then got reintroduced as adults yeah and like it's like they've now never not been in my life which is crazy and so you have a good relationship now with with not not not with my dad right no but with um we still haven't spoke which is crazy in all of that time yeah how did we ever not know each other we went for one meal and um marvin came with me basically long story short i went a Christmas party had a couple margaritas you know yeah Christmas having a good time literally having a lovely time and um it's so random but Ken from Love Island right was on my former agent's like roster right he was there and he was relatively new off of Love Island at this point and I was like welcome to the team etc etc chatting and he was like I've got to tell you something because I always said if I saw you I would mention it and I'm like right and I could I instantly knew it yeah you know it's gonna be weird but I didn't know what it was yeah and um he was like I went to school with Lily your sibling and like we were like really like best friends and I always said if ever anything happens and when I went on love and I'd spoke to her and I'd said if ever I see her I'll mention that I know you and you need to get in contact with each other I'm like this is really weird okay and then he was like should I give you her number can I send you her number and obviously I'm like tipsy yeah so this is all the environment we've turned into like this really long lost families at the Christmas party so I said yeah okay give her my number I had hers and then she had messaged me and it was a marvels like look reply in the morning yeah this is all a bit like this has just happened and yeah you've had a drink yeah sure replied in the morning the next night we all went for dinner wow quick marvin came with me because i was like they all have grown up with each other like yeah you need someone on your side i feel like i'm walking it was like a date yeah on the way back in the car he was like i just couldn't stop looking at you all and how like we're all twins basically it's crazy like my dad's genes are very strong we look more like full siblings than my husband and his siblings do have the same parents it's like his genes are so strong so yeah we spoke and it's weird that like nature over nurture thing because our mannerisms were the same our like it's wild like wild if you saw us all together you wouldn't know that we've only been in each other's life for like six and a bit years yeah it's nuts so then that was it we met we then had a group chat with it and then I've spoke to them every single day since that's amazing and before that point because it sounds like when Kem had said do you want her number it sounds like they would have had conversations before essentially being like I you know I would love to have her in my life or whatever it might be I can imagine also and this is me completely projecting I obviously don't know your family and I obviously don't know your full situation but also I can imagine because you were in the public eye it was probably I can imagine that if I had like a sibling that was in the public eye and I wanted to be like reunited with them I'd be worried that they were going to think I was just reaching out because you know that's because you're in like a position or whatever so it sounds like there was like they really wanted to be yeah you know to know you well I think so and I think we were both sort of we hadn't reached out to each other in fear of rejection of course like my fear of rejection was because I in my mind I've built up that they have a fantastic relationship with my dad right and I'm never gonna have that because I don't respect him in that way but I also don't want to project my feelings onto them if they have had a good upbringing with him so I don't know their story so I sort of had the fear of rejection from that angle that they'd be like you know I don't we don't want a relationship with you because you know our dad's our dad yeah we can't muddy the water here of course I thought that would be their response and I think for weirdly a similar reason they thought because I didn't have a great relationship but I wouldn't want to know them and then also because of the public eye thing you're right so I think we're both sort of doing that like we both had the fear of rejection and we all kind of didn't need to and that fear of rejection that you talk about having kind of come into your life from quite an early age because of your familial situation did you find that kind of manifested itself elsewhere in your life I don't think so you know I really don't because I kind of never had it I was always really like aware of when I met somebody not to have like stereotypical daddy issues and I really didn't want that to affect my respect for a partner because I saw my mum smash it by herself right like I know that I don't need a man I don't I don't I know that I could have this by myself because I've seen my mum do it and I have the same ethic she does I didn't want that to be too strong like I've got this you're just here for like you know yeah and I wanted to make but I think that's also meeting the right person isn't it I think I think I was conscious of that before knowing that was a thing yeah right like because you'd you'd grown up in the situation where you knew what it was like not to have that and therefore it was always an option almost rather than creating a fear of rejection creating like a well if that's the worst that can happen then I you know like I'm I'm fine I've done that like I kind of know that's the way it manifested itself in me which obviously I'm thankful for but it was almost like well I can do it anyway yeah so why not that's always been my like sort of mantra throughout life like you know if you don't ask you don't get yeah that's sort of my approach to everything I know I don't need but do I want yes yeah and it was kind of that I think there could completely understandably be a lot of fear of rejection from that point and we're all taught like love and belonging and all of this from our early life like no matter what whether it's a single parent whether it's a double parent in a terrible relationship whether it's like too much love quote unquote like whatever like that's how we're taught the way that we relate to other people and the way that we kind of build relationships I find that so interesting always like seeing how people's relationships but I think don't get me wrong there were times as a kid where it did upset me I'd be like but I don't understand why and that's where my mum I see through my adult eyes is how she was sort of protecting everybody in the situation because she would be like well you know some some guys just aren't you know you know when your mum you carry a baby and your it's natural instinct and some men she was very sort of protective so I was like oh okay so I tried to understand it out that way and I think there were times that I just didn't understand like especially when I knew then he had other children I was like I can imagine that's heartbreaking so why doesn't he want to like what did I do and there was a lot of that and I think there always would have been until I sort of met him later on but for me actually the tipping point for me was having my own children I was happy in my environment I was always curious but I had a negative feeling towards him for so many years because of that like well I'm a kid like your job is to be a parent like I don't understand how you're not interested and I felt it was always quite from an angsty place which I suppose is understandable but the time the dial turned is when I had my own children.

17:21Yeah. Because I kind of thought it went, it turned into a respect thing rather than a, why not me? Why didn't you, how dare you? That all went. And it was more of a, I couldn't relate to you. I can't relate. Yeah. Because this baby and watching Marvin parent and the way that he is with our children and the way that he would put them and us before everything. and even if we weren't together the love he has for his children and like the not wanting to miss every breath and I was like wow and I just would be in awe of watching him as a dad and actually I'm like this is what he should feel like this isn't like I kind of want to give him this medal and this crown yeah you're amazing because I didn't have that but actually we need to stop clapping that so much how it should look so for me that's when I was like actually I'm at peace of all of this now because it's more of a respect thing and right I don't think I'll ever be able to relate to you and respect you as a human because we're never going to have that in common rather than you having been not accepted in that environment it's almost like at that point that you had kids you're kind of flipping that in a way because it's like actually do you know what like these are my boundaries and this is what I want from the people I hang out with or have a relationship with and I've decided that's not right and I feel like that's quite powerful as well because in any environment where anyone feels rejected in a way there's such a tendency to kind of yearn for that acceptance yeah and actually for you to just be like do you know what we clearly believe different things that's exactly it right there like I'm never on that now obviously when you're young you don't understand and you know in the same way that you do when you can look back at a situation but now I am a parent and nothing's different now now we're on a level playing field you know I could have been told you don't know what it's like to be a parent you don't know so for me I'm like we believe in different things we have different priorities if I was to meet you as a human that I didn't know and I wasn't attached to biologically I'd be like oh they're not my you know sure you do your thing like no judgment but we're not the same people so we probably wouldn't hang right yeah so I think and it's that's what it did for me and I didn't hate him yeah that all went I was just like yeah yeah I think and also then you're going to protect a mode and my you know whatever my job title whatever my success my biggest you know role in life is to protect my kids yeah and I wouldn't want somebody to enter their life that was gonna be inconsistent yeah because you know I feel like children need consistency yeah so for me that's a boundary too you know so yeah I think that's really really powerful and I've had a lot of friends who've kind of gone through situations where they've got to a point recently not as parents but as adults where they've just been like do you know what when I really think about it the only reason I kind of want you in my life and obviously we all want relationships to work and like familial whatever whatever it might be but kind of got to a point as an adult being like we clearly are so mismatched yeah like the only reason I want you in my life is because you are my family but realistically like is that the only reason because I've been you know almost rejected from this that I want it there's something in there that it's family right so you're yearning for that idyllic picture and I think when you can come to peace with the fact that there is no idyllic picture really however that looks whoever's had a perfect family there'll always be something somewhere because I think you as humans we put pressure on it things having to work because that person's family yeah and they could treat you so appallingly but their family so we'll all talk we'll tolerate it because we have to or because I think when you can get to that place where you're at peace yeah with the fact that you can't change it I think you will instantly lead a better life for sure yeah no I think that's really powerful how did you originally get into kind of music I know that you were saying you were originally like dancing around and selling annoying annoying anyone right i feel like all any like quote unquote like performing arts like children are the most literally most annoying of all the children oh shut up so how does that like start um i used to go to like a performing arts weekend school so i'd go all day sunday and then i would like potter around there on a saturday just because i wanted to be i love to like be in it like to the point where I would like say to my mum so-and-so has invited me to their party can you say that I'm grounded she'd be like what you're not grounded I know but I don't want to say that I can't go or I don't want to but you know that's the only way yeah yeah because I was sort of embarrassed to admit how much I loved it and that was like and I was only like 12 at the time and I would go in on a Saturday and like help assist the teachers in like the three-year-olds ballet class just because I just loved being around that environment it's a weird thing I sort of it was a buzz as soon as Friday was here I was like right can I go yeah and I'd just turn up and be like can I help in any way and I think it was really good for me because it gave me a real my sort of passion was born but it also gave me a real focus like you know I remember my friends would be like we're gonna go and hang outside Tesco tonight do you want to and I'd be like um I'm grounded they must have thought she's her mum is so strict she's always grounded but that was that I'd go there that would be my weekend and then this audition come up on remember CBBC and I used to watch it religiously after school and at the time the audition was to support S Club 7 it like for you to go and sing and like support them at a Wembley arena show and I was like it sounds like a job for me let me get I love the confidence sounds like I found a girl I know I remember I was so obnoxious yeah Wembley's been waiting for me I mean Wembley's called I think they're talking to me on that like who do you think you are hun you're 12 I love children's confidence I actually love we need to bottle that yeah yeah um so yeah I thought do you know what the arena's calling mum get me there now so it's so funny so I literally begged my mum to take me for this audition and there was a couple of kids that were Frankie who I was then in juniors and the saturdays with being one of them that we were at the same dance club so there was a few of us that went um and it wasn't like out of the ordinary right we would audition for things before I was in like a theater show beforehand and so we went and it was like I'm talking the days where you know where they used to film for like pop stars or pop idol yeah it would be like before the x factors and the queues would be like like round round blocks for you know miles and miles long so my mum my poor mum when I think about it they were all just there thinking oh my gosh we're here all day like we arrived first thing in the morning what a good mum got yeah my parents would be like yeah absolutely and also my sister at the time like because my mum were like there was no like child care or that being an option so my sister would like that had to sit there with me like great this is fun and like running around and she was like when I think about it now it's literally like the worst day out as a parent like let's take a load of kids to Wembley and queue all day like no so then there was a couple audition phases and you know and then I think my mum then was a bit excited too because she was like this is like well you're obviously quite good at this yeah not really she's just having to deal with my tickets you know in the living room so then we then went for this final audition and S Club 7 were at this one and going through rounds of but at this point we still think it's just like one person gets to perform and then Simon Fuller turns up who I didn't know who on earth that was but all the adults were like he's a big music manager and they gave us like a talk and they said you know we actually there's been something that we haven't actually told you we're putting together a junior version of S Club 7 and I was like and they said you are our final there was like nine of us at the time they were like you're our final nine and I was like my mum was over and I remember looking at my my mum and I said to her and she reminds me of this all the time and I actually remember saying it too and I must have been like 11 yeah and I was like if you don't let me do this I'll never talk to you again nice bit blackmail at a good moment yeah yeah okay um and my mum was like at the time was like she owned a hairdressing salon she was like this was so far away from like our world and we're a group we did support them at Wembley so that bit was there were nine of you there were nine of us then it went down for one reason or another it went down to eight of us and then yeah it was like the most exciting thing we had like so many fun memories we were really we were actually really well protected because you hear about these like child right performer star situation that they can have led like a really weird life but for us it was we were we had like chaperones that are amazing our parents were really quite involved which when like the businesswoman in me now when I look back and I think oh my god how the management team had to deal with eight sets of parents oh my god yeah the chaperones the kit like it's literally like it I don't think it would be worth the financial gain for me yeah it's like the thought of it sounds so stressful I just had the best time ever and that sort of planted the seed of this is what I want to do I want to I don't know what capacity but I want to be in this world forever right sure and then you know juniors can't last forever we all grew we got boobs we got butts you know it gets to that bit where I sort of rein it in so I think I was like 14 15 and that got knocked on the head and then it was like whoa what am I going to do now but I wasn't like worried I was really like this isn't life as you know it and you go from having every second of your hour planned to like oh that's it then what do we do and then I went on a couple of castings I got um a gig hosting a program called Smile for CBBC or BBC on every Sunday um I don't know if you remember it it's probably before your time um but it was Ferncott and Reggie 8 a guy called Barney Harwood and myself and then when that came to an end I was 16 17 probably and my mum was like well you're gonna have to get a job like everyone else that's left school yeah and which is right I don't know what I thought and you know it all stops doesn't it the money it all when it stops it stops and that's where it sort of taught me a lesson because it's all very easy come easy go it's like you don't ever think you're not going to be asked again and I think I'm pleased I learned that as a young age yeah because in you know my older self is like okay my attitude for everything is well it's not going to last forever I'm not going to be relevant forever I'm not going to be you know because I really felt that so I then took a promotional job which was for my local radio station I would stand outside Tesco I would they had like a brand it was called Time FM shout out Time FM and I would drive around in their branded car because I'd pass my driving test at that point and like give out leaflets and like we would like win this car and you know yeah I mean and that is like let me tell you if ever I walk past a shop and someone's handing out a leaflet I will never in my life Marv laughs at me I'd stop I talk to them I maybe don't give my number I give like an email address that you know yeah but I don't mind giving and because I just it is the most soul destroying thing in the world when you're like hi I just wanted to and you're so enthusiastic and they go yeah and then you're walking past and it's almost like you've let a stink bomb off next to me right um so yeah that was and that was character building um so then I did that I was doing that for you know to basically fund my life and my castings so I would do that get on the train go into town go for an audition and it was basically that week to week go out with my friends on a Saturday get up go for an audition and that's sort of how that worked as long as my biggest tool that I want my children to have is I want them to have the most empathy and I want to show them the world so I want them to know where you're living and the life you have is incredibly privileged and you know that's across the board and I want them to you know have a real view of that and understand and be sympathetic and empathetic to everybody's situation that's really important for me but I also want them to know that like in moments in life because we all have that where we're peaking and we're at highs they do come with lows and that's life of course But it's how I want them to be the same person, as in like have the same morals and the same beliefs and treat those seriously when they're at the peak and also when they're, you know, when they're not.

30:51Yeah. I remember someone saying to me years ago in like when I just first started in this industry, it's so important to, you know, treat everybody the same. And that would be my advice for everyone. And that's like a level of respect, whether it's the woman on reception when you're walking into the meeting with the CEO, whether that's the researcher at the TV show, because one day there'll be the editor. And I think for me, I mean, that's a life thing. Like I treat you the same as my friend, as, you know, a person that we'd run into on the street to, you know, I just think that's a tool that I want my kids to have, knowing that that's how to live life.

31:32You know, you're no more important or equally less important than somebody else. No, I completely agree. And from this point, how did the Saturdays come about? So I was running loads of auditions, meeting different managers, just trying to find my way, really. And then I got a phone call from a guy that was looking to manage me at the time we were working together for a period of time. and um he was like I've heard about this audition you might not want to do it but it's for a girl band um with Polydor and with Universal and that's where we were when we were in S Cup Juniors so I was like no way okay and you should go why not I know the woman that's doing the casting and she you know there's loads of girls going but why not so I was gonna go and then literally I went out and I had the worst food poisoning it was on like a Sunday or something and I woke up with like the world's what like I was like bombing all through the night and I was like I'm gonna have to just leave this casting like the thought of my mum was like I think you should go if you can get yourself up get in the shower see how you feel but I think you should go I got a feeling about this one I was like what she was like I've dropped you to the station she was doing all that why don't you just go yeah so I was like felt marginally better and then literally on the way thinking why have I done this I feel so ill why have I listened to my mom anyway got there and it just went really well yeah instantly I felt a vibe there were so many great women in the room from like up and down the country I met Una in the queue literally we were together the whole time and she'd come over from Ireland and we met in the queue on the first day like swapped my space yeah swap my space accounts and like stayed in contact and she was like I've been asked to come back for another day have you I'm like oh my gosh yes I have as she was I'm gonna have to fly back over from Ireland again and I was like you can stay at mine if you want my mum won't mind so she literally stayed in my mum's house we had like I had like the box room I put her on like a single bed on the floor like a little put me up thing and weird instantly we sort of gravitated to each other and yeah then it happened from there and then that was it and how did you find that journey kind of going back into I guess the the limelight different yeah and that's what made me realize we were so well protected because we had like chaperones and like I feel like I didn't see the real scope of the industry like remember we would only have to be able to work so many hours so I'd be like right we're at home and and so then when we fast forward to years later going in as an adult I'm like oh this is different awfully long aren't they gosh where's the chaperone at I'm ready for my bed now um so that was very different um I think the industry was different like it wasn't so much about that we would go to warworth's on a saturday and do signings and like that sort of didn't exist anymore just things and then obviously slowly over time it would be like you didn't necessarily buy a physical cd anymore it was like a you know i'd go on itunes or whatever and then fast forward to streaming and so it looked a lot different youtube was big so in some ways it was great that it was a little different and then in some ways not so much like certain things I think social media wasn't a thing um I can't tabloids was still a big thing though tabloids was still a thing the only thing that was weird we were sort of part of that culture where we would go out on a night out and paparazzi would try and make you look as worse as they right it was very much the era of like it was that era yeah that was like the body shaming area over like Rochelle like in one of the magazines like enjoys her holiday and you don't know you're getting pat and it was that era of sort of tearing women down in from that angle and I remember like we would get out of taxis and they'd be waiting to get that up crutch shot and like that was awful that was yeah but we got so used to it right yeah which was all which when I think it wasn't questioned it wasn't questioned and we just that was part of it you want to be in this you know you want to live this lifestyle and you want to be in the public eye yeah like it means you're relevant and like all of this and that's just what they do yeah wear trousers then you know and that and I'm like and looking back now I'm like huh we didn't fight enough but we were so young and we sort of was always in fear that okay well we'll bring a new girl in yeah yeah that sort of you know that was the sort of feeling that when I first dated Marv started dating Marvin I would he would get out of the car first we spoke about that the other day we were like he would get out the car walk around so that he could stand in front of me so I could get out the car before anybody could get a shot like but that would never happen now which is amazing well there's a law in place so it doesn't yeah which is amazing but yeah it's kind of it it was a different era altogether and how did you find that how did you find being kind of thrown back into the public eye in a very kind of like women were talked about in a very I mean still are to some extent but like it was so blatant back then I think weirdly we expected it and not that it's right but weirdly we'd be like oh gosh I'm scared to do this go to this place because I'm scared of what the headline will be or or what angle the picture would be coming from or so weirdly we kind of knew that it was part and parcel of it but yeah so I think I really sort of felt it when I'd had a layer and so that is nearly 10 years ago so I'll be pregnant over 10 years ago and I just remember really feeling like oh my gosh terrified to go back to work and be surrounded by four other gorgeous slim not flabby saggy boobed women you know and I remember just feeling really like I have to get back I have to get back I have to be back in the outfit and it that necessarily wasn't so much from pressure from outside it was what I thought I had to be actually it wasn't really anybody else but me but I was like the I was 23 when I had her right so I'm like and I remember we had a single out about four or five weeks later and I remember being like I'll be back did you talk to them about the fact that you were going to be just having given birth when a single was coming out well we sort of because I know that would have been there was like windows for singles it's like we'll have one this time of year this time of year some year and that was pretty much already decided like a year or two out then I get pregnant and weirdly I felt like you know the way you feel when you turn up to work on a hangover and you don't really want to go on about it because no one's got sympathy right if you're like if you've got a hangover you did it you went out you had a drink like you basically try so hard don't you at work because you're like no no fine I've got this and yeah you've got a sore head today like I felt in my first pregnancy like that and why do you think that for nine months plus and then even to get back because I felt like I was letting the side down I can't explain it and I'm not sure if it's what I put on myself or if it was also I think it's probably 50 50 to be honest yeah but it was like well we've got a single coming out and I was lead vocal on the time yeah it was a song called Gentleman or I had quite a bit to sing on it at the time I looked like shit I shouldn't have gone back my god like and I remember like going on we had a performance on like Lorraine and I put Spanx on and they were like probably like a roll neck they were up so high and I just remember thinking my boobs are leaking why am I here I can't imagine that but it was weeks after having a baby it was all in hindsight yeah so it was just like it's fine yeah but that was me too it's fine I've got this no no no no I said I'll be back for the single I'm back for single yeah it's fine we've got this yeah and that was like when I look back I just thought what I think like why didn't anyone stop me but I couldn't be stopped you know what I mean no I do like because Marvin always like when I say that he doesn't like it when I say that because he's like well I should have really said babe no but when I mean why didn't anyone stop me I just mean actually ultimately why didn't I stop myself but also no but I also think there are protections that can very much be put in place not in order for you to be like you're literally not allowed because of course you're allowed to do whatever you want yeah but like the encouragement of kind of being like are you sure and also we've got this this will not affect your contract this will not affect your future like almost like going the extra mile for reassurance because women after having children there is so much I mean the even the fact that like people feel like it's relevant to know whether a woman is at childbearing age or like all of these things when hiring just goes to show how much we think that women aren't capable of doing the same job once they've had a child like the fact that we even need to know that is indicative of the fact that we think it changes things right so even just needing to be overly accommodating just to be like look we know that we're probably not going to be able to stop you but we just want to be really clear that if you didn't do that like if you didn't do it you would be fine nothing would change yeah and I there'll be another one in right exactly exactly like it's not it's not a big deal yeah and I think I'll be honest it is the most terrifying feeling actually having a baby because you're so full with love and I a lot of Alaya's pregnancy and her early years are a bit of a blur to me like that first sort of year or two because I was probably weirdly desperate to prove a point as to I didn't soak up anything like sometimes I look back at pictures and I'm like oh really remember that yeah gosh that's mad that that like it spills out of body because I think I'm bearing in mind that I've been in that situation before where it all ends so that's always in the back of my brain I think at that point and I think you're so I'm self-employed so I'm like there's no protection of any maternity leave here if I don't go back to into this and I think that's what I was that's my motive behind it like once it's done it's done and now I've got a child to provide for so it can't be done yeah I think that was where the place that it was coming from but it's so scary because you I've gone from being in this hot girl band that you know our image is five hot women we sing we you know we're in sexy dances and performances and right you know that's part of it and when you don't feel so sexy when your tits are leaking and you've got spanks on and you've had a cesarean and you've got a big gash across your tummy and your boobs aren't up where they started you're like okay does this work now and why would people hire me now when they can hire that person because that isn't you know the math weren't mapping and I just it's terrifying that moment of thinking okay well if this doesn't work what do I do so at that age obviously you were still super young like 23 that's a baby that is a baby I look at my sisters I'm like oh my god yeah I mean I my sisters I think about to turn 23 yeah oh my god I'd be like absolutely yeah I know I'd be like you are a child no way you are a baby and I think I didn't feel I was a baby but I think maybe because I'd done so much prior to that I started in this world at like 12 yeah it was so weird um it didn't like I felt fully ready for a baby but I was just really the work element and around I hadn't prepared myself for and did you was it a conscious decision to decide to have a baby yeah and so you were you were like let's not let's like we just got married yeah and we were like well let's sort of not try to not to yeah yeah right sure um and then it did happen probably quicker than we thought right sure and you're like oh oh you're like well that's the science definitely works yeah oh my gosh okay wow that was we were right about how that I thought we could have a year of like right yeah lols um so it was probably quicker than we thought and obviously I took and at the time I took that for granted because in my you know my age now when some of my friends are now thinking about a family at you know I'm 34 around that age I'm like now feels like a good time goodness me I did take that for granted because I didn't realize that you know for some people that's exactly what they would want to happen like let's just try now not to boom it happens but for me actually it was terrifying I'm like ah it's such a fad that we spend our lives trying not to get pregnant and then like at the point that feels appropriate for like work and being able to like establish yourself a bit and all of that it's like oh yeah it's so like it's outrageous I feel that there's a weird we're conditioned so strangely when it comes to babies having babies whether we want babies whether oh you know I think even when I was married married I walked I didn't want to go and buy a pregnancy test because I felt ashamed because I had it attached to like you're not supposed to get pregnant you're not supposed to get pregnant no but we have this like as in we literally have this shame and being like don't get pregnant don't get pregnant like how why why would you have sex like I know it's so terrible literally like we're like oh you left it too late yeah like that is it literally like turns overnight It's the weirdest thing.

45:54And I remember thinking, yeah, even if, and I was married and I felt embarrassed. And people publicly knew I was married. Right, exactly. And it shouldn't fucking matter anyway. And if I wasn't married. But what I mean is, I felt like I was doing this naughty teenage thing that I'd been told not to do. You were allowed to sort of be. And I really remember having this weird sort of like relationship with that. like oh okay I need to now turn this into it's a something that I wanted yeah right change that sort of the way that it is in my brain and when you look back on that time is there anything that you would have changed in terms of work in terms of family in terms of any of those things I think I'd have changed the pressure that I felt I was under whether that was projected onto me or not that's you know I can't even remember at the time but I definitely know the amount I put on myself to sort of try and rush back too soon.

46:49Sure. And I think to be present, like I think the worry in me of never working again overtook the fact that I was in a situation that I'm never going to get that time back again, i.e. enjoying the birth and the early stages of a newborn. And then I almost felt guilty about that because it was all about getting back to work. well it's you lose she was with me but she was with me at work yeah not that it changed not it didn't change my love or anything like that but it was about okay well she'll be six months by then or she'll be it was all about that rather than like taking it all in yeah and that's that if I could change anything I wouldn't say it was an you know I don't believe in regrets but if I could sort of go call myself up and be like rush it's all gonna be all right it'll all figure itself out take just take some time at home you're fine you've got this enjoy this because she's gonna be like 10 soon and you'll be sad yeah that's what I you know I wish that like the future me could call the old me but it's like it's a lose-lose either way because if you go back then you're a bad parent for you know going back and if you don't go back then you're a bad parent for not you know yeah I read this quote on Instagram and it said something like um we expect women to raise children like they've not got a career and have a career like they've not got children it's a double-edged sword isn't it and I think ultimately you know we need to take pressure of ourselves but also off of what always makes me sad is it's other women that have opinions on how and why you're doing that.

48:38Yeah, I mean, the amount of shaming online. I can't even like, every single time there's like something on a new mum who's doing something. It's like, where's the baby? Where's the baby? I hate that. Has the father been, like, has a man ever had an interview where they've been asked, where's your child right now? I say this constantly because obviously I really notice it, right? Because there's two of us. Right, of course. And we'll go to an event and everyone will literally ask me, so who's got the kids tonight? and I said to my wife when you're like a gig and you're there to DJ or whatever to someone anyone ever come up to you and say who's got the kids well no because they assume I should have right well no do you know what I find so funny is when people like to the um to the like mum they'll be like oh has he got babysitting duties tonight daddy daycare it's like it's not a parent like as in like parenting not babysitting but it is wild he's doing what i do oh my god how or they'll say how amazing is he i saw him the other day with the kids to softball i'm like are you gonna congratulate me in the same 50 50 like i did the day before i didn't get a medal and also we made these children 50 50 like it's crazy and i think we'll be batting that away for a very long time as women i think you know it's the more we talk about it and make people stop for a minute it's like when I really hate it like I have to really talk to like my aunt and my mum when they'll will have a family gathering and they'll be like well isn't it your turn next aren't you surely you want kids now and I'm like to like my sisters or to my cousins and I'm like you you can't and they don't mean it from a bad place they just assume that that's what every woman wants I'm like first of all you don't know if they want kids so don't assume that that every woman wants kids well no they don't they might not be able to have kids exactly they might not and then so then and then secondly you could be really you could be making them feel they could be dying inside right now because you don't know what their journey is and you don't know what you know and I sort of had to have this education piece with like my elders and they're like right do you know what I didn't think of that and then when when you start sort of planting the seed they're like yeah actually my daughter's having a hard time conceit right so you just have to yeah can't let's stop let's stop this weird pressure right and and when you were at the beginning of your parenting journey and obviously you were both in the public eye and I assume both kind of breadwinning for the you know for the family but also wanting to balance all of that um with work and parenting and everything how did you find that initial split and how has that kind of evolved in terms of your kind of split of parenting we have a real like unique situation and when I compare it to my childhood and I feel very proud and you know very grateful that we are so 50 50 like it couldn't be more 50 50 if we tried and I think it's important like for us it's how we work and how we manage we sit down at the end of the week and we go right next week because that's the way to not overwhelm each other yeah so we'll be like right next week obviously the kids have school Monday to Friday so that's that but we go okay I'm on pick up this day you on pick up this day and that and we sit down and that's how we do it and sometimes it'll be me all week sometimes it'll be him all week sometimes it will be split 50 50 but it is what it is and I think with us in terms of like career we kind of know that we both give each other breathing space to shine so if he's like me and the boys are going to go on tour again this year I'm like okay I'll try and protect that period of time for me and that's your thing and then we you know that's just how we do it and vice versa because you can't both shine at once in that way in terms of like from a career perspective because at the end of the day we have a family and that doesn't stop for anybody so it's how you know how do we prioritize each other and the kids and everything else in it and listen it's not easy yeah and the balance we're still trying to strike but that's how we do it if we're like this is really important to me and we understand each other's level of importance and we respect that and it very rarely collides and that's sort of our motive no you oh my god you have to do that okay fine I won't do this then I might do this earlier now so you need to be around for the you know and that's just how we do it yeah and did that take a lot of trial and error yeah three kids in babe I'm like I've just got there um but yeah now we feel like I trust myself now as a parent as a wife as a businesswoman there's something for me about entering my 30s like a little light bulb went ding and I was like I know what I'm doing I'm gonna start telling people no that doesn't suit me I know now what you know I know what my boundaries are and I'm not it might it might not happen that way for everybody but there was something really empowering about like entering my 30s I was like I know who I am and I know where I'm supposed to be and like I had this new lease of life yeah it's wild yeah new wrinkles new lease of life um and when it comes to being a mum I guess in the public eye as much as we wouldn't want it to be any different from being a dad in the public eye but it's not the case um how have you found that in terms of like social media because I cannot imagine anything more terrifying take it all with a pinch of salt.

54:35I feel quite lucky with the community that I've got on social media where they're quite like me in that sense and they're quite, they're really supportive and I share the kids. I don't overly share the kids. That's not like my whole feed and that's also quite conscious because I know what that comes with because everybody else seems to think they know how to parent your child better than you do which is wild to me there's a lot of double standards and I could post and we've done this before exactly the same picture as Marvin before we knew how to you'll get one nice picture of us and the kids because you know and a thousand terrible ones where someone's crying or someone's hit each other or we've got our eyes shut and we'll post the same one this is before you could do the collab posts right now I'm like we just hit it on both of my things at the same time um and the comments that I would get versus the comments he would get are crazy really like I'm sure he's being rewarded the difference oh he'll be and where mine will be like like why have you not got a coat on your son he needs that and then you go and Marv and Marv will be like wow Blake's t-shirt is so nice or like you know This is just for an example.

55:51Yeah, an example. But like the difference in that. And I'm like, it's actually crazy. And I know that a lot of our followers also are the same. So I know that we obviously share a lot of the same audience over the years that we've been together. It's crazy. And it will always boggle the mind. But I think it's just an echo of society, isn't it? that I think it will still be a man's world in terms of family and parenting and you know as you get to a certain age it will be like that for a long time unless there's people like us that are like shouting about it and you know being a feminist in that way but I think it just it's boring it's actually boring it's like oh do you call it out yeah because I know it happens to me in the flesh yeah yeah social media just kind of I kind of just feel like you're giving something light I get that but then I also feel like we're always always always told like just don't give don't give airtime all of this I also feel like there's a point where it's kind of like do you know what sometimes you I feel like a lot of the reason why men get less of kind of that as well is because they're kind of like it's obviously not fucking true and then you kind of just move on whereas it's like as in like we're quite a lot of the time quite graceful about it and kind of like you know patting off and I feel like sometimes there are some people I follow who call things out it's not necessarily on this but it will just be like generally calling anything out being like read the fucking room this is not the time like whatever and yeah I think obviously it depends what it is yeah yeah you're right and I also think but my attitude has always been anyone that's gonna come with that mentality I treat as kids so if my kid was acting up about something you know and you're like I'm just going to ignore you for a minute until you've realized yeah because then what happens is normally then they come back with an apology sorry I didn't think you'd see this yeah no I know so so it is almost the same energy really but I think sometimes I don't care enough either about somebody that's got an opinion that doesn't know me that's gonna form this whole story from one picture that I'm doing a terrible job so you know when you're kind of like we're probably never going to relate to each other because I don't understand how you would do that to another woman so we're probably the same thing that I was talking about earlier it's a respect peace with the like yeah we're not aligned yeah let's not try let's not try and make this a thing well I feel like this has been I've absolutely loved this chat thank you so much for coming on I feel like um it's been like a good I feel like I've had like a proper like natter you know I've had a proper little mother's meeting haven't we you know when they used to say that yeah it's been so nice oh thank you so much for coming on and sharing your story um and being so open and everything i really really appreciate it thank you