Ep.56 From Homelessness to a Multimillion £ Brand: Founder Rokeya Khanum's Truly Incredible Story

0:00The market's uncertain. Revenue's tied and hiring on hold. That's why results-driven companies are using Upwork to keep work moving. Go to Upwork.com today and start hiring proven freelance talent fast. No bulky overhead. No rigid long-term contracts. Just the right expert right when you need them. Work smarter and faster with Upwork. Go to Upwork.com now and find your freelance expert. That's U-P-W-O-R-K.com. Post a job for free and get started today. Hi friends, Grace from the Working Hard podcast here. When you're stretching every dollar, Alilla goes a long way and Walmart Business is here to help.

0:38They make it easy to order what you need from tech and cleaning supplies to everyday essentials, all at low prices and with helpful tools like spend tracking and tax exempt purchasing for eligible organisations. Because when your operations are smooth, your impact can be bigger. Visit business.warmart.com to get started. This episode is sponsored by Indeed, the UK's number one job site. With its powerful matching technology and features such as company reviews, salary filters, and their work well-being score, Indeed makes finding better work easier and far more effortless. Today we'll be talking about how work can work better for us, specifically the ways in which workplaces can better support us so that we thrive and feel fulfilled.

1:12So let's go through some of the things you can look out for when searching for a role that'll help you find one where you will flourish. Let's call them employer green flags. So one of the main green flags for me would be a business that has amazing female representation. for me as a female founder, working and collaborating with women is super important to me and has always been. I've spoken about the gap in VC funding for women-founded companies. So to set up a space to change that and help pave the way is really important and front and center in all my businesses. Now, this may take many different forms, but another thing we offer at Tala is something we call duvet days.

1:43Duvet days allow employees to take unplanned days off when they need them. This allows us to keep the mental and emotional wellbeing of our team at the forefront. Sometimes we just need to wrap up and not think about work. And it might be something that doesn't legally give you a break, like the death of a pet or a breakup. Overall for us, it contributes to a happier and more engaged workforce. Then another one is hybrid working, recognising that each business must tailor its approach to suit its sector and workforce. Tala has implemented a hybrid work model. To me, this is incredibly important because it allows both collaboration and flexibility.

2:13And personally, it's just useful for admin when you can, for example, schedule a delivery on a day that you're going to be working from home. I find that this diverse blend of work environments kind of enables our team to effectively manage their work life balance and align their responsibilities outside of work as well, which has proven to be a successful strategy for us at Tala. And the last green flag for me would actually be a fun, energised startup working culture. Sure, startups are fast paced, but personally, if I'm going to be in a role that I'm going to be spending a lot of time in, I would rather be challenged and really pushed and really in an environment where I feel like I can thrive and really see the result of my work.

2:44So most of my businesses are very much in startup phase or still have that mindset, meaning they are super fast paced and no day looks the same. One day I could be in a strategy meeting, the next day I could be on a panel, the next day I could be on a shoot. And really when there are no roles duplicated, that's the same for a lot of our team. This is a huge green flag for me and allows me to personally to constantly learn about myself, what types of work I like, hone different skills. And I also think it can be incredibly helpful for learning lots of parts of a business which you don't traditionally get in more corporate environments.

3:12To me that's really important. Over the next few months we'll be working with Indeed to bring you lovely people even more work focus guidance and inspiration. So be sure to listen out for that. And if you're looking for a new opportunity, save time searching for.

3:27I became homeless and I had my son prematurely. Today we have Rakea Canem on the podcast. She's got the most incredible story of tenacity. I was on benefits. I did live in a council home and those were stepping stones to where I am today. It was the most challenging time. I did not have a job for 18 months. I was like, well, well, what can I do? If I can't find a job, I need to start a business. I'm sitting in Nando's, minding my own business, looking at my phone, and all I can see is the Instagram following going up, up, up. I'm a person who has fought for my entire life. And if you're coming for my designs and my business, which I worked so hard for, I take it seriously.

4:17what is up guys and welcome back today we have rakea canem on the podcast and she is someone i've wanted to get on the podcast for a while she is someone that i personally really like to follow on instagram in particular as a just like a founder doing their thing she's always really educational about what she's doing and her journey and i've always just really enjoyed following her because she is just very much a strong woman. She says what she means and she's really happy sharing her journey which I feel like is rare to genuinely see that you're seeing behind the scenes. So for me I've always really really really enjoyed Riquet's content but on top of that not only has she done absolutely incredibly well and she has built such an amazing brand, it's a brand that appears huge because of how well it's kind of tied together and like how amazing it looks and behind the scenes of that Rakea has had just like the most unbelievable story she talks about her background in this episode and talks about kind of where she's come from and the challenges she's faced and I don't think that they are ones that you'd expect at all to see that she was a teen mum who had to drop out of school who spent 18 months unemployed way after that after she'd got a law degree and all of these different things to me she's got the most incredible story of tenacity and she's not let anything stop her she's not let anything get in her way so I hope you really enjoyed this episode as always if you do enjoy the episode please do like subscribe rate I don't know literally what platform you're on but whatever platform you are on please make sure to leave some sort of rating because it helps it hugely and make sure to follow the podcast as well thank you so much and as always I hope you have a wonderful day

6:01In her own words, Rakea Kanem has achieved the goals she once referred to as impossible acts. Born to parents who moved from Bangladesh to the UK, Rakea Kanem was born in East London. She was raised alongside seven siblings and Rakea has always been honest about her childhood, opening up about her teen pregnancy at 17 years old where she was then made homeless, moving from hostel to hostel and barely affording the basic necessities. Fast forward to the present day and Rakea is founder of the luxury clothing brand Kanems. Rakea shares her incredible origin story from initially spotting a gap in the market to generating six figures in seven months, all from what she viewed as a side hustle.

6:36Now stopped in Harvey Nichols, taking the Middle East by storm and turning over seven figures, Rakea shares her success story from hardship. She talks about how she was determined to turn it around and exactly how she did that. After her journey of becoming a teenage mother, to then going back into education and going to university to study law, to realising she couldn't study law because she couldn't afford the LPC, then working for a few years before she found herself unemployed for 18 months which led to her starting Canems. It really is an incredible story. I think after hearing this it's just so clear that Rakea is proof that you can always come back stronger from setbacks and build a future you are very much proud of.

7:12Rakea says herself she is turning pain into power and shattering those fucking glass ceilings. I can't wait for you to hear this story. Thank you so much for joining me. Thank you so much for having me. I'm literally so excited about this episode. As soon as Rakea walked in I was literally like I am so excited for this episode I feel like every time I well first of all you're one of the only people who I watch their insta stories every day and I don't mean you for you to say that like it's definitely a compliment to my side because I literally like don't click a lot through yeah um and I find them educational I find them fun I find them like you just show so much behind the scenes and I feel like you're such a great person to follow for anyone who you know has started a business works in fashion in general you know strong women is my shit and thank you you provide that right back at you um so I want to go straight into it and kind of go from the very beginning I find it's always really helpful for guests to generally give us like a little bit of background about who you are and kind of how you were you got to where you are now could you take us back to the very beginning and just tell the story about your your childhood, where you're from, what kind of what your childhood was like and we'll kind of go from there.

8:27Yeah sure so I grew up in Brooklane, people know it as Banglatown so it's in Tower Hamlets and predominantly a Bangladeshi community and I am one of seven siblings and my parents are Bangladeshi immigrants and they came to London in the late 70s and they were garment workers so they used to work with local factories based in Brooklyn. So yeah, my childhood was pretty much, I'm a middle child as well, by the way. So I'm, maybe that's why we're so similar. But yeah, I guess growing up, I don't know, I was just a bit of a quiet kid, just focused on my education, wanting to be something. Yeah. And so you were one of seven siblings.

9:13What did your parents see as success? Like when you were going to school and when they were you know generally they were kind of talking about your grades or whatever or kind of talking about what you would end up like being what was what was their kind of view of success in that way I feel like my parents never pressured myself or my siblings to kind of become successful because they hadn't really had any experience of that they weren't the kind of parents that were you know the typical Asian parents that would push you to become a doctor or a lawyer or anything like that they weren't like that I think they just saw with myself at school I was getting good grades and my dad would really encourage it but yeah I think it wasn't any kind of pressure it would just be great you know and so what type of thing did you enjoy at school I loved art I loved art I was really good at art and English literature I was really good at but yeah 100 % I think like art was my thing and everyone knew I should have known then that my creative skills were going to become something but I didn't recognize that back then.

10:13I mean anyone have a look at your feed and they will see the art is there the creativity is there like you have such good content I could only dream and so when you were a teenager you were obviously going to school you were loving art you were loving English language was there anything that kind of stood out to you as like what your next steps would be like when you were doing GCSEs kind of all around then what did you kind of think the future held for you and how did that kind of go from there I didn't have a clear vision because as I said I'm a middle child and my older siblings they didn't go to college they didn't go to university so I didn't have a kind of like understanding of what the educational path should be for myself I probably when I was 16 I think I wanted to be an air hostess I didn't know what I wanted to do when I left school I went to college and I studied fashion design for just six months and then I dropped out because I was having a baby and then after I had had my son I decided to completely change my view on what was important or was defined as success for myself so I changed my entire you know want and I decided to study English law and politics at college and then law at university because that's when I just thought I've had a child very young and I come from an Asian community and I've kind of you know gone against the expectations my parents had of me potentially succeeding in whatever that may have been I just thought studying fashion as a teen mum no one would kind of validate that as success so I thought let me just do what everyone else does study law maybe become a lawyer and you You know, when I graduated university, 100 % my family was so proud.

12:00And it kind of like balanced out and kind of negated the whole teen mum thing. Because I was trying to prove, yes, I've had a child young, but I can still do everything other people hope for me to do. And at that point, obviously, you say that it had, I guess, what had happened and you having a child at kind of that age. do you feel like your biggest motivation then was kind of rectifying your I guess image in your parents eyes and other people's eyes 100 % I just I think I felt some shame you know because I left the community completely and I saw some of my peers people I went to school uh with they went to university and even though I was behind because um I I decided to get back into education when my son was about one years old I just thought this is something I have to do because I want to prove to people I don't want to fall into the stigma of a typical teen mum especially as an ethnic minority I just thought I have to do something about it and I have to kind of like fight against that stigma or not become another statistic you know teen mum on benefits or in council housing not that there's anything wrong with that because that was me I was on benefits I did live in a council home and those were stepping stones to where I am today so at that time when you kind of I guess found out you were pregnant and decided was that decision to leave school was that was that a pretty clear one I can imagine it was very very hard at the time I can imagine going through that at that age um would have been very stressful in many ways I don't think that even comes close to covering it what was your kind of headspace at that time so I became homeless and whilst I was homeless and moving hostel to hostel um I had my son prematurely and I think it was like an awakening in my mind like all of this all of these things are happening I'm living in hostels what is this life this is not a life I want for myself myself it's not a life I want for my son how do I change that you know and that has to come from me and I have to go back and study get an education and then whatever happens from there will happen but when when my son was born prematurely and he's in hospital for like three months in the neonatal unit it's like everything changes when you have a child and I just thought to myself I have to be a good role model for him as well because I don't want him to see me as someone that's not fighting for my life because I would want my son to do that for himself you know yeah I think that's so powerful and I mean I think you've more than proved to absolutely everyone not that you ever had anything to prove but like I can imagine that your son looks at you now he does you know completely in awe of what you've done and what you continue to do did you always know that you were going to go back to education after that point yeah I just as I said it was like an awakening some like a light bulb moment I just thought to myself there is no way imagine I'm sitting in a hostel and the conditions are horrible horrible I it feels so far from reality reality you know me sitting here today and I just thought to myself there's I you know I need to get back into education and I need to change my life I need to become something I need to become successful not that any as you said like I didn't need to prove anything to anyone it came from within me and I just thought that change comes from myself and I'm the one who needs to action it and do something about it and how did you manage going to college and also having a son I can imagine that wasn't easy at all it wasn't easy at all but I'm so lucky because I really took advantage of back then there was connections I don't know if it's still around and connections was for kids from like 14 to 19 years old and I was 18 at the time so I went there and I was asking them I want to get back into education what can I do there was a scheme called care to learn and they provided funding for young teen mums to get back into education so I took advantage of that by you know finding the best child minder when I was in college he was probably like one years old and I wanted I didn't want him to be in a nursery I wanted him to be taken care of like very closely so he was with the childminder and then he would be with them from like eight o 'clock till the end of the day and I'll pick him up but he was such a good baby he was so so good I feel like not to get spiritual but I feel like God blessed me with a good baby because he knew the situation that I was in if that makes sense he he would never cry he he was perfect and from the point that you went back to education did you did it ever feel like you wanted like it was too much like you maybe like wanted to like you felt like you couldn't do it or was it something where you knew so clearly from the way that you from the time that you went back because of that kind of light bulb moment that like no matter what you were going to see it through because I can't imagine it was easy at all there was never one moment I am such a stubborn person when I have a goal in mind I'm going to get it done regardless like no obstacle in my way can stop me nothing can stop me and I didn't find it as a challenge I just had the end goal in mind and I just thought this is what needs to be done so yeah and so you spent the next few years at college you were studying three subjects and then you decided to go to university to study law at this point how had your I guess ambitions changed like what did what did you want for yourself at this point how were you managing being a mother After I finished college, I decided I wanted to become a lawyer because it seemed quite an attractive profession to get into.

17:36And I recognised myself as someone who's quite tenacious and strong and strong-willed. I just thought that would be the best route to take. And I loved studying the case law. It's something that I enjoyed. So that's where my ambition to become a lawyer came from. And I just enjoyed it. So I thought that was what my career was going to look like. But it didn't. And so when you came out of university, you started, did you start working in law straight after that? Did you start a solicitor firm or? No, no, everything changed again. And this is what I think like a lot of people think that you have to have your life figured out at every single stage.

18:16But you don't. A lot of people don't have it figured out. As I said, when I was 16, I thought I was going to be an air hostess. Then I thought I was going to study fashion design. Then I decided I was going to become a lawyer. And then as soon as I finished uni, I just thought, I can't afford to do a legal practice course. I don't have the funds for it. There's no way I could do it. And I decided I wasn't going to do that. And I, you know, I need to support my son. So I decided to get into work and kind of make a living to support us. And I just fell into various roles, nine to five in various industries.

18:47So the whole law ambition just went out the window. And so what were those types of roles? I mainly worked in HR. and and how did you enjoy that how like how was it kind of after obviously you'd had this ambition in your mind you'd gone back to college after what I can imagine was like a very tough time and difficult and isolating you said how you were homeless and going from hostel to hostel and I can imagine on top of that trying to be a new mum trying to do college like I just can't imagine how tough that would have been and how much tenacity you must have had to be able to get through that for you kind of going into you know coming out of law and going into these HR jobs how did you feel about that like how was your mindset at that time I just thought it's just something I need to do I need to pay my rent I need to put food on the table I need to support my son and it's just something that I had to do I needed to get into work I think what what was quite interesting was I found studying whilst being a mum easier than working whilst being a mum because at that point you know I have to I've got a fixed time Monday to Friday nine to five and my my son was still young and I don't have any I didn't have any support at the time so just kind of balancing parenting with trying to support my son was a bit of a challenge.

20:05And did you find it harder to be to I guess be a parent at that point like when he was slightly older? Yeah I I think so, because I think he had a lot more needs. His personality is growing, his character is growing. I found it really hard to juggle working as well as like tending to his needs as well. As a lone parent, it wasn't the easiest. No, I can completely imagine. And so tell me about those jobs that you had kind of right after law. You know, how did that lead to the point that you started Canems? As I said, like I've worked in several different industries or companies, mainly within HR what happened was I got made redundant from one of my jobs and this was at a startup company which was great experience because now I've got a startup and I know how it works yeah um so I was made redundant and then I just couldn't find another job and it was crazy and it was the most challenging time I did not have a job for 18 months 18 months and I'm telling you I'm not the kind of person that just sits and wallows and is not going to figure out a solution in how to find a job i went i treated looking for a job like a job itself i used to go to um you know the hoxton and sit there with my laptop monday friday nine to five looking for jobs job applications rejection after rejection constantly and i'd go to interviews and they just say oh you know the typical um you're too overqualified you'd find this job boring or xyz and all you're like take me I was like I will do anything it even got to a point I was almost evicted from my flat because I couldn't pay my rent yeah because I used up my savings from all my previous jobs to survive and yeah it was just it was really difficult and it just got to the point where I was like well what can I do if I can't find a job I need to like maybe start a business or a side hustle I always had something in mind and I always loved fashion and I saw kind of like a gap in the market for affordable luxury wear and then I decided I'm just going to do a business plan I went on Google downloaded Virgin Startup business plan template filled it in did all my research and then I decided okay I'm going to do that but I'm still going to look for a job and then craziest thing happened I'm in the internet calf downloading my business plan and then how did this even happen I had five job offers that same morning I'm printing off my business plan I'm like yes I'm going to become a businesswoman all of this is going to happen and then suddenly five job offers so then what I decided to do was I decided to take the job that paid the most because again survival of course survival and I decided I'm still going to try to set up a business because I've learned I can't stop I can't fully rely I think I had trust issues I had some sort of trauma just thinking oh my god I could get I could lose another job and what's going to happen then I need some sort of additional financial security so then that's when I decided you know I'm going to do further research I'm going to try to find manufacturers or suppliers and just figure it out and that's how Canems came about I don't want to lie and say I always wanted to be a designer and you know it's been my passion no I needed money that's how Canom started yeah and I mean it also goes to show that like there's so many different motivations for starting a business and just because you did it because you need money does not take away at all from the fact that it is an incredible business and beautiful designs and all of that and I feel like it's such a it's such an incredible story and I can imagine at this point having obviously had when you were a teenager having realized that you were going to be a mother so young and then having pulled together all your strength to like bring it together find support go back to college then go to study law then realizing you can't you can't afford to do the lpc then going from there into hr jobs and then being in this situation i can imagine it was probably like for you to have the strength still like so many people would at this point have been like well fuck that like as in and you just you like really really kept on going like the tenacity again that you had i mean you don't need me to tell you this but to be able to do that all back to back I can imagine at this point when you are 18 months like without a job and you're applying every day you must have it must have felt like wading through like so exhausting and it was so demotivating because then I had family or friends saying have you not found a job yet have you not found a job yet and it's like guys I'm trying you did everything I did everything and it's just it just got to a point where I even had to kind of seclude myself from being around people because I went into a point of kind of depression because I'm just like why am I not finding a job like what is it me am I the problem like it it just it was really exhausting and I just thought no one's gonna help me I've never ever in my life ever saw any kind of financial assistance from anyone and I've always thought to myself I became a teen mom that was my choice in my life my situation as a lone parent is my choice it's my life but I have to do something about it if that makes sense like you know it doesn't matter what happens or whatever obstacles I was facing and it was like this change that change not having a job for 18 months at the end of the day that's my problem and I need to fix it and I need to do something about it myself and that's exactly what I did yeah I mean we can see but no a hundred percent I mean it's it's incredible like how many obstacles you've been through and being able to like really come out on top and I think it's one of those things where like if anyone came across your social media now how much of that would they be I mean you share a lot of it but like if they just see your feed they see your life like how much of that you however many years ago when you were sitting in that internet cafe like having applied for jobs for 18 months having gone through all of these different things that really tried to hamper your success and looking at that feed you'd be like no way yeah no way a hundred percent and I still have people sometimes making assumptions about me or how I got to where I am and that's why I feel like I need to be authentic with people because I know there's so many people out there who are like myself that might be an ethnic minority coming from a working class family who had nothing that they might be a teen they might have been a teen mom as well they don't know how they can progress their life or how they can come out of their challenges and I feel like I owe something to people to let them know because I never had that when I was when I was 17 years old and I became a mom I never had an actual role model to look at who had been through everything I had been through and now when I'm honest about it on my social media I have so many people saying thank you like because it's a niche problem right it's a niche problem and there's not many people that have had that so I just think I need to be honest and I think that's amazing as well because I think it could be really easy for you to sit in this position now and also be like I just want to be grounded in where I am now I've come so far I don't need to constantly revisit my past it takes a very strong person to also be like sure maybe I don't want to be revisiting my past all the time and of course you don't like you have no obligation to at all but the amount of people you must help every time you talk about it and every time you kind of share your experience is like colossal I can't imagine how many people must just be like even if it's not the same specific situation like hearing either even these small bits of whether it's about the job hunt whether it's about doing a degree and then realizing it's not for you whether it's about being a teen mom like whatever it might be there are so many things that you've overcome that other people i'm sure in that moment and i'm sure you in that moment as well were like there's i'm never going to be the view i see of success and for you to share that and be comfortable with kind of revisiting that constantly to be able to be like you can do it too like it's here it's completely your choice like all of that i feel like is really, really powerful.

27:59The market's uncertain. Revenue's tied and hiring on hold. That's why results-driven companies are using Upwork to keep work moving. Go to Upwork.com today and start hiring proven freelance talent fast. No bulky overhead. No rigid long-term contracts. Just the right expert right when you need them. Work smarter and faster with Upwork. Go to Upwork.com now and find your freelance expert. That's U-P-W-O-R-K dot com. Post a job for free and get started today. I want to talk about the beginning of Canems. I want to talk about the conceptualization, the concept behind it. I have to say, going into affordable luxury fashion is a big ask for someone being like, what do I do as a quick buck?

28:44And then you being like, I'll go for a more affordable version of the thing that people already sell for thousands because it's so hard to make and so difficult to get the right quality and so difficult to get the right designs and I'll just do that what was the and I agree it's a gap in the market and I agree you guys do it incredibly but it's definitely not an easy feat what was your kind of reasoning behind making that so I saw a collaboration with Bauman and H &M back in I remember that was it 2015 I think it was and I I love embellished pieces and growing up as a South Asian Bangladeshi woman we used to wear silk amizas or lenghas and they're very like intricate and I always wanted to modernize that and I wanted to combine my love for western pieces with my love for my eastern heritage and I just wanted to kind of do something with that and then I saw the collaboration with H &M and barman and they were doing the jackets that were very intricately embellished and i saw that people were reselling it on ebay for thousands of pounds and it was crazy and i saw the success that h &m had had with that specific jacket and i thought this is something that i could be doing because when me and my sisters are buying or designing solo cameezes we know someone there's a place called green street in east london and it's full of like south asian wear and i thought I'll just pop into one of these shops and then just ask them if they can help me make one of these jackets no because um I showed them a design and then they said to me yeah 900 pounds and I was like no yeah if that cost price is 900 pounds how much am I gonna sell it for that's not affordable at all the math is yeah it's not exactly so um yeah I think like canoms just started from me seeing the kind of gap and what I wanted for myself I'm a person who loves luxury statement styles something that's very unique and I wanted to find something for women like myself who appreciate those statement pieces as well yeah I promise you the more money I earn the more because like every time I scroll through your website and even over the past like year and a half or so the how far you've come in terms of like the breadth of designs and like the different you know what different types of things you can get on the site for like whatever the occasion might be um yeah I mean it's quite clear that I'm the biggest fangirl um rightly so I think um so at that point when you'd gone to the shop and you kind of be like will you make this and they're like 900 pounds how did you go from there because I can imagine that was a bit of a setback honestly it was such a challenge because at that point I already had my nine-to-five and I get the new nine-to-five that I didn't want to lose so I went after work and you know get the violins out it was rain it set the scene it was raining torrential rain and I'm walking down Green Street going to every single shop showing them my designs and they'd just give me a crazy cost price and I was like oh my god what am I going to do like maybe I can't do this business and then I was sitting on the back of the bus and I just thought let me just google manufacturers maybe in India and go directly to the source itself rather than going through a third party and then I found you know I listed down 20 potential manufacturers emailed them all sent them my design only two got back to me one was super keen I sent them the design they told me it would be ready in like eight weeks sent them the money for the first sample um how much did that first sample cost do you remember it was probably like 180 pound yeah and then I just thought okay let's do this and then I went to my parents house and I was saying to my brother oh I'm gonna start a business because he's always like very much interested in business and he just said to me you do know that they've run away with your money and you're not you're never gonna see that sample ever again but I did a week later I received I can't imagine how much your heart would have said I was like oh my god after all that I've worked so hard yeah exactly so then I received the first samples and I was so pleased I was so so pleased I was so happy with it um and then I decided to do like a DIY I didn't have the funds I used up my salary from my nine-to-five job to get to pay for my sample to do a DIY photo shoot to get a photographer pulled in some favors wrote on social media does anyone fancy like um doing a photo shoot I scratch your back you scratch mine kind of thing and then that's how we did the first photo shoot amazing I would love to see photos when you do have that they're not bad yeah I mean my ones at the beginning fucking hell I cannot relate on they're not bad um so I mean that's just amazing and I feel like what's so interesting is that starting a business is obviously so confusing and from the outside you kind of look at businesses now and you're like how the fuck did they get to that point and I feel like it's so easy to look at that and be like well I could never do that because I've never worked in fashion or I could I've never like worked with suppliers or I've worked in buying or like whatever it might be yeah and the fact that you went on and you literally googled and you emailed some people and just like took a bit of a leap and like I understand it's not you know I'm so glad that that one did actually make you a sample and everything but generally you know it's an industry out there because it's an industry that works and it just goes to show like how much just being like if I don't fucking try yeah then I'm never gonna know whether it's gonna work and for you to like email that many people put it forward get the design done even the fact that you did a design yeah based on the fact that like you weren't working in fashion yeah like you didn't know how to like do a design did you do like a tech pack or anything no I didn't do any just a drawing just the drawing on a piece of paper with a pencil like so basic so basic but luckily the manufacturer she totally understood my vision and she just killed it amazing and so that how did that first launch go you know as I said like everything was pretty much DIY it was the plan was it's just super small it was nothing I think like a lot of people when they visualize starting off a brand like they imagine it huge like everything has to be big yeah but for me it wasn't like that I just thought this is just a small side hustle this is what I'm going to do so what I had done was um we had like a small instagram and i already for my personal instagram i built relationships with influencers and i messaged a few directly and i just said to them oh you know i've got this jacket and i think you'd love it and so many of them were so nice and one in particular charlotte emily sanders she's the first she's the og she is yeah she's the first person and she was so nice she just said to me oh just put it in a just put it in a cab and then i'll just wear it i'll take a mirror selfie and I'll give it back to you I was like that's so nice there are such nice people out there so nice and then she wore it she took the mirror selfie and it was the day that I was launching I'm sitting in Nando's minding my own business looking at my phone and all I can see is the Instagram following going up up up and I'm having loads of other influencers contacting us saying oh would you like to collab would you like to collab and it that's how it started that's crazy and again and like I know that you present that when you're like I can't believe this happened all of this like you really do create your own luck because even the fact that you were like ballsy enough to just be like I'm actually going to message all of these influencers who like you know I follow or for whatever reason I'm gonna message these factories I'm gonna literally like nothing was getting in your way you were literally just like okay next step like talk to influencers like so many people I feel like naivety is actually one of the biggest strengths when it comes to like starting a business in that way as well because it's kind of like you never stop to think like Like, oh, well, maybe they're going to want payment or maybe they'll reject it or they'll never apply and all of this.

36:45That's the stuff that you just have to absolutely get rid of when you're starting a business. Because it's like, okay, but you need to try. You need to try and it might not work. And people will tell you, oh, no, that's impossible. Like, influencers will never do this or a factory will never do this or whatever. And you just being like, wow. Yeah. And I had faith in my product as well. Because I just thought, I know these influencers and I know their style. I know what they post on their feed and I know that the product is aligned to what their sense of style is so I knew like yeah 100 % I was ballsy because I knew this product is amazing and I know you're going to want to wear it because influencers like wearing something other people aren't wearing so I was like yeah let's do this yeah yeah and so what was the next steps after that I can imagine how many it all did do you do you remember how many you got at that point it's so funny because when I did my business plan I literally put if I just sell five only five jackets per month that would give me a bit of money on the side and like I'm happy with that that's fine I got way more orders than that and I was just thought oh my god and I had to go and sit down with my brother who's a finance director and sit down with him and say to him what am I going to do like I'm getting all these sales like what do I actually do had you bought any stock was it no nothing think everything was made to order and everything is still made to order because I just thought to myself it doesn't make sense like let me test the product let me see as much as I had faith in it so smart let me see if it's gonna work and people are gonna like it and then they did and I continued the whole made to order model that's amazing cash flow wise that's really great yeah um and so when what did you kind of do next at that point like you've had one like product that's already got off to a success you've got people starting to follow you like what was next i booked a flight to india brilliant what only you would do yeah because i had to visit the manufacturers i wanted to see what were the conditions how do they work what is the process i want to know everything i want to meet the team like these are the people that help that have helped me succeed and i want to meet you and i want to build a relationship with you so that's what happened went to india using your work holiday I pulled a sickie

38:56anyone listening knew she didn't know oh my god amazing that's so funny yeah so I I booked uh booked booked a sickie um yeah for one week and I just went to India and it was an amazing trip I loved it and then I ended up going up before COVID I probably went to India like four times four times every year just to see them like to see uh oversee the collections and the production and did you find that really sped up the process when you were there yeah 100 % I might we still work with the same manufacturers even though our supply chain has like um expanded um that's amazing yeah first email yeah oh my god that's amazing yeah she's amazing she's so sweet every single time I've gone to India she's always trying to feed me that but um yeah our relationship is great she requires very little from me she just understands my vision and what I want um and we still work this way that's incredible and so how did you decide what you were going to release next did you just keep releasing the same one for a while when did you start to like branch out from that point that one specific jacket was doing so good so then I developed it into like a bomber jacket and then eventually dresses everything was embellished embellished embellished every single for every single collection nothing was really plain styles and then what I noticed as I'm running this business was seasonalities matter during the summer periods it was so quiet and during party season it was so busy so I was trying to think like okay if summer is quiet what kind of product can I release for summer to keep the momentum going then I introduced more dresses and like plain styles and then yeah yeah so that's been not recent but like relatively recently over the past like year and a half is that right in saying so end of 2021 after covid because covid was of course like a difficult time where i'm a party wear occasion wear brand and there's no more parties and no one's going out so no one's buying these kind of intricately embellished they're embellished no no exactly no one's buying it so i had to think like what can i do I need to keep it going so um you know around 2021 I decided to create like because we were moving into um party season I thought okay I want to expand the product range to collect more demand um and then that's when I introduced the plain style dresses with like little bits of embellishment whether on the back or like across the border and it just went crazy I we were not ready for it And were you scared before that point that the not doing embellished styles would feel like a kind of departure from your brand?

41:38I did. I did. I felt like I had like a strong niche. But as I'm running the business and recognizing that this doesn't work every single season, what can I do to make it work every season? And it was just more of like, again, a survival thing more than anything. And did you have to find new suppliers to make the new pieces with new materials? we started working with a manufacturer in London oh amazing yeah and yeah we will we source everything locally because it's made to order everything's local locally sourced we produce in you know London somewhere in Tottenham and yeah incredible that's absolutely amazing and from that I think it's so interesting that like a lot of these points you've said like it's survival it's survival at survival and it's so interesting because I feel like a lot of your big moves in terms of like what you've done like starting the company like even like new designs like all of this has been it's almost like you've been pushed out of your comfort zone yeah and then you very quickly made decisions being like okay life is pushing me out of my comfort zone like this is how I'm gonna deal with it and I think it goes to show like the importance of like react like listening to what the world is telling you yeah like listening to being like okay it's telling me to move more in this way and you've managed to evolve every single stage of your life and your business like with that in mind yeah yeah which I think is like really really powerful and so back in 2019 I a little birdie told me that you sued another company for copying your designs yeah how did that come about so I on my personal page and on canoms have got a very loyal following and people always tell us when they see something that is yeah I relate the amount I get in my dms every day I'm like yeah yeah exactly so we had someone contact us and then I messaged the brand directly and I said to them hi you're infringing my designs this is an original um artwork craftsmanship xyz you know please can you remove this from your marketing and sell on your website the usual we do this all the time and people usually just respond and they take it off on this occasion they didn't this person did not take me seriously and as I said I feel so sorry for anyone that tries me because they don't know me I'm a person who has fought for my entire life and if you're coming for my designs and my business which I worked so hard for no I have time I have time I have time she didn't take me seriously and I was so polite to her and I said to her I'm I'm being honest with you like this is because she was saying to me it's not a copy it is like for like it was one of the jackets and with the jackets they are very unique the artwork that you see even like the beading designs like all of this the embellishment placement that is artwork that I've created so it's not a coincidence that it's the same right you know so I told her this she was denying it she didn't take me seriously and then um we sent them a letter of claim through my solicitors she again wasn't taking it seriously like I studied law please exactly and then she had like she changed her email signature to like legal legal team for the brand and we could see right through it eventually she did take it seriously we did sue them we did win we collected lots of damages it was very awkward and it was so painful because this person had gifted a lot of the jackets to influencers which some influencers I've worked with as well and what she had to do as part of our deed of undertakings was get those influencers to delete their posts and remove it like how that's that's so awkward yeah awkward along with so many other um damages and claims and you know requests that we had to and how did you feel when that kind of like first popped up like when you first started seeing people copy your designs I mean it is a compliment and it's fine and I kind of like pick and choose my battles sometimes I can see it's not an exact copy and it's not and also like the whole of fashion operates off a base of inspiration like when you would have created your original mood boards you know ball main like whatever it might be like there's always going to be things in there there's a very big difference though between like in active wear for example ip is almost impossible because it's like how much can you do to a legging like are you going to put a fucking zip all the way up yeah exactly like pearls on it like probably not so like within certain areas obviously there's going to be a lot of replication or similar inspiration and i look at the majority of the time and if it's not a fashion piece it's kind of like it's a legging like as in like they're gonna you know like of course i'm sure that came from you know similarity or their promo video will be exactly the same or whatever it's also like fine you are in a very specific area in which i can imagine that it's i know how frustrating it is for me when i'm like oh i know that i know where this has come from but i can imagine for you when it's a something you fought for so heavily in your life and kind of been like no i made this happen especially if it's like a cheaper more fast fashion company yeah imagine that's like oh yeah definitely it's just so exhausting and it's sad because I'm not a horrible person and I don't want to be suing anyone I don't want your money I don't want you to have to destroy your stock or you know be contacting influencers to take down posts and remove all of that I know how hard it is to set up a business but it's just such a shame where I know some people can just throw around the whole I'm going to proceed with legal action some people do that I don't I take it seriously you know I'm a woman of my word and I just let's just play nice just just cooperate with me and again like that didn't happen on that occasion but you know as I said we won and one thing I'm really grateful for um for the other brand is she contacted me via email six months later and she apologized to me very sincerely and I love that because I just thought you know I wish you the very best of luck with your business now you've learned a lesson and it was a lesson for myself as well yeah and like it takes a big person of you to be able to recognize as well that like actually I can imagine that not that it was right but I can imagine that time was really hard for her as well and that she probably thought I'm gonna start up a business I'm seeing this one do really well hey I can do that too yeah I see that fashion you know is all based off like replication and trends and like all of this so I'm and gone way too close to the bone and like way too close to the sun but for her in that moment as well like I'm sure it was like I can do this too and like that would have also been like really but like it takes a lot for you to like recognize that as well and be like appreciate the apology also yeah accept that and all of that i can imagine it was very tough for you at the time it was because legal action is not cheap it's very very expensive it takes you away from the business and it it takes so much i'm currently dealing with something quite similar and the way the other people kind of like dealt with it literally put me into depression i had to sign myself off from my own business how does that make any sense i wasn't able to perform my own job properly i wasn't able to run my own business properly so yeah it's it's really stressful and it's just you know come on guys let's just play nice and let's cooperate with each other and this could all be done and over with it doesn't need to get too far and what what are the biggest things that you've learned from times like that in business like about the way to kind of conduct yourself and like how to deal with the highly stressful time like I know with that type of thing when it's like every single email that comes in you're like yeah you're literally like jumping at it and you're kind of like it ruins your day every time and like it really sucks the life out of you how what have you kind of learned from those times I think generally I'm a very resilient person and I'm very like self-aware of my own feelings I can label my feelings and I can say why I'm behaving in any certain way on what triggered me and then I'm very vocal and I'm able to be vulnerable with my team and tell them I'm going through xyz and they're amazing they'll support me in any way it's just sometimes it's challenging and sometimes you can handle it and sometimes you can't for me on this recent occasion it just got to a point where it was just too much just too much it's not like it's like one design it's six different designs and it's exhausting especially where the other people are not respecting you and for me I'm an ethnic minority and I've never ever played the kind of like race card on anything but on this occasion I felt I felt it I don't know I just kind of felt like gaslighted and disrespected and made to feel really small as if like I cannot be taken seriously based on the claim that I'm making because apparently I'm nothing and it's just yeah it's not nice yeah no I can completely imagine I could I think that with those types of things it is just so disheartening especially when you're like just I'm not asking for a lot here yeah I'm just for like my fair exactly and I know how hard myself and my team work like it's not just my designs my team yeah from fabric sourcing my team if you come to my studio you will see my team hand embellish um all these like plain styles that happens in my studio when we do you know ahead of a photo shoot is highly stressful time we're last minute changing samples do we want to use a small bead do you want to use a bigger bead where where is it going to be placed all these kind of things right it's a lot of work and it's a lot of time and the original pieces of work and then for someone just to be like oh i'll take that one and i'll take that one and i'll take that one and i'll just like and it does harm your business as well like it's not obviously it's not what you want to be hearing and like as in but anyone who sees that first it's gonna harm like it's gonna harm you know when they see your second and think oh okay you know it's not it's not nice and I can completely completely appreciate that I mean been there um but I feel like it's very you know you've dealt with it so well I remember when I actually saw the one like recently pop up and I know you like won't go into detail on it at all but I loved the way you approached it in terms of being able to be kind of like completely transparent about the fact that that's like quite a common part of having a fashion business and like how that affects you as a founder and like even you being able to say like I had to sign myself off work because it was like so tough I you know completely understand I've been through times where I've been like fucking hell like it would just be like that one thing where it just like sucks the living day out of you and you were genuinely like a shell of a human for like six months at a time and it is like it's world encompassing and it literally like changes everything for you as a founder will you talk a little bit to the the kind of thing that you put on instagram when this originally happened and you were talking about all around like ip and how you learned about it and how as a founder you kind of protect yourself i thought that was really interesting when you shared that yeah um one good thing that came out of studying law yeah right was I studied intellectual property law as a module and I actually got first in it um yeah so I am knowledgeable around this and I think you know when people see me on social media as a fashion designer and an owner of a clothing brand they don't actually know my education or my skills or my knowledge and they kind of think that they can get away with certain things but I actually I'm also very self-educating I always go online I read case law I everything I do my best to understand how things operate in order for me to protect my own business and you know as you said when I experienced that recent thing I did post on my social media about you know how you can protect your own designs and what you can do what is a registered design right what's an unregistered design right what are the consequences of you not just registering your designs or all these kind of things and people found it so useful because i think you know when you own a fashion brand you actually you are going to be exposed to the potential you know theft of your work but it's like if you know how businesses work then there's a way that you can protect yourself right it's also kind of an occupational hazard in terms yeah like it's gonna happen in some way or another it might like you know you might have someone coming at you and say something when you've never seen them before like as in like it's always gonna happen like one way or another educating yourself is like so incredibly important i also think just like as a whole just talking about the fact that actually like your education as a founder like never truly no it is very much about like constantly learning and like i will say firsthand that every time you kind of slow down your learning the world will tell you how to learn something very fucking fast and it should like come soaring into your head at the time and like into your inbox like at the time where you're like do you know what it's kind of it's kind of going fine now how do you deal with generally like the roller coaster of being a founder oh my god I feel like you know in the last 18 months Canems has grown so much so is my team so is our supply chain so are all the you know agencies and everyone that I'm working with and that it just feels like sometimes and I know you can relate where all my limbs are being pulled and I'm like everyone's needing something from me and it just gets to a point where I feel like my head is going to explode because I can't stretch myself that far and where I'm an owner of a small business I'm still trying to you know be cost efficient and trying to manage a lot of things myself because I don't want to start running whilst we're still learning to walk and I really try my best to read a lot of books about how to manage leadership skills having difficult conversations recently when I was on my way to Egypt I read Harvard Business Review's book on emotional intelligence and at work and that really helped me because whilst I'm being a manager and I manage a team and everyone's got different personalities everyone's got different needs and I want to understand how do I cater to do those individual needs in order for me to support them and get the best out of them whilst they're working for me so all of this I just think it's constant education you never stop learning whilst you've got a business because you're constantly going to be faced with something you never will face with previously and how do you deal with that it comes from self-education and speaking to people who can kind of advise you on how to handle different situations and scenarios yeah no 100 % I completely agree and I think that self-education is so so so important and I feel like as a founder one of the most stressful sides of things but also you know it's very educational and very exciting but it's one of the most stressful things is that you constantly are learning so many different things at once and feeling like you need to become a master at so many different things whether that is like protecting your design whether that is about like being able to fire someone for the first time and learning how to do that in a way that's both like you know doesn't upset them doesn't make you feel like you're an absolutely terrible person like all of these kind of different things there's so much to learn at all times you're literally being like a diplomat but you're also trying to execute but you're also trying to act like a company a size bigger so that you can make the next level of revenue whilst being a size smaller than that like as in it is a constant battle and i feel like self-education and making sure you're almost setting yourself modules like i always make sure i'm doing that in terms of like you know harvard business review i'd say is a really really good one um things like business and fashion like all of this making sure you're like signed up to the newsletters yeah so like i'll just go through and like bookmark a few and make sure just like once a week I'm like reading something in depth yeah that can improve my ability to um you know to be a leader or to be a founder or whatever it might be who when you talk about kind of like getting advice in general who do you have like a mentor who do you generally go to you know I've got experience in HR and I'm so lucky because my managers from some of my previous roles we still have contact and you know they've come in on a consultation basis and helped me with several different things see everything led to something oh yeah 100 100 um I have even spoken to a business strategist who's helped me kind of like dissect the foundations of my business and you know areas of opportunity um I don't have a mentor but I try to get mentorship from other areas yeah yeah I completely agree I think that like I've never had like a mentor but I've in terms of like just being able to have interesting conversations with people I also feel like just asking a lot of the time I feel like the most valuable mentorship or help you can have usually if it's in a specific area go to a specific person but also like the amount of times I've just like messaged people who I feel like just that stage ahead of me in terms of like the business yeah about specific issues people are so generous and so helpful and i'll always say as well like if anyone messages me like i you know all the time it will be like someone with a fashion business and they're like we're having this current problem with like the way we're structuring like our social media team or like the way we're dealing with this or whatever like i am so happy to help i'm one of those people that you know like not even in like oh i'm so great but in like it takes so long to work things out and you need to like build the actual rocket ship while you're in it and like imagine all of like the pieces that need to go in there and you're like what the fuck is this like yeah how do I even build that team and actually like every time you learn something it's such like a triumphant moment that like I have so many founder friends as well that are kind of like by the way you should know this and I'm kind of like that back as well but it doesn't like it's not easy you have to put yourself in those environments I definitely didn't like naturally have like founder friends and like naturally know how to be like oh well this is how we do this and actually this is how we tackle this specific problem you have to like put yourself in that environment definitely have you managed to like build a kind of network of like people with similar types of roles I'm so bad at it I consider myself a bit of an ambivert like I don't like going anywhere to network or things like that and I think that comes from imposter syndrome I don't fully recognize myself still and I haven't accepted the fact that I am actually a founder of a business and I'm a designer and I should be placing myself in rooms where people like myself and like like-minded people are also there so it's something that I'm working on you should you absolutely should be and it's so it's so funny as well because I also had and still often have like I will unless I absolutely have to I will not go to something that involves networking purely because I'm like at the end of the day the last thing I want is to talk to more people yeah um just like realistically but also like I remember I saw networking as like the like the nice part of the job like the kind of you know the fun thing that people do to say that they're an entrepreneur rather than actually like doing the thing yeah and that was like a real misconception that I had because then when I needed a network to be able to help me when things were going tits up and I really needed like help on like various different things to be like how did you deal with this how did you deal with this how did you restructure this that was the point that I was like yeah shit I really wish I had people like around me and that's when I started like building it up people from all different backgrounds who had like who would either work their way up in a more corporate side of like that type of business or like people who generally works in working kind of startups people who've worked in consultancy like whatever literally anyone I was like can I pick your brain on this can I pick your brain on this and I feel like that's one of the best things I ever did because now I like get more confident I remember this one time where someone had been like oh you should jump on a call with this person they were CEO of like quite a big clothing company and I remember being like why why why would I like jump on a call with them and like what would I talk to them about like me being like hi how are you yeah good like how are you like I was terrified but I'm so glad I did as well because that's just like it's just networking yeah like you just learn so much from people and it's fucking terrifying that's what I need to do I feel like I'm good at doing it on social media where I'll just follow people and I know like yourself your stories are so valuable to me I I'm constantly learning and I think you're very authentic as well and you know a lot of the things you say I relate to so much and I think the easy way out for me to kind of connect with entrepreneurs or founders is through social media yeah no absolutely and I feel like that is a very important way of doing it and a very I mean we do not have a lot of time and like we do not have a lot of like headspace and like bandwidth to be able to like going and finding people in person like I do think that's very very important I feel like the more I've been more accepting and kind of open to like general conversations with people that are kind of like pop up who are like actually I have experience in this and people are it's so funny that I feel like my audience as a whole like what used to be people kind of all of us being like oh what's the best workout we can do and then it's kind of like very much going into someone being like oh I actually have you know some expertise in this and this is what I found really helpful and I'll be like thank you so much I really actually really needed this now so like anyone who like sends me unsolicited advice I'm like thank you so much like that really like we all have different jobs and we're all like adults now like this is amazing but I also think peer-to-peer networking is really underrated yeah in that we always think networking and mentorship needs to be like upwards like it needs to be from someone in like a quote-unquote like better or more progressed position to us whereas I feel like the most valuable networking you can get is probably the most valuable is like one step ahead of you but I would say definitely mutually it's going to be the people you're at the same like the same level as and like who are also going through the same things because you go through things in different orders some of you are going to like build different teams first and it's going to be like you're going to run into different problems first and some of the best advice i've had like i always just message people on social media whether they like it or not i'm like hi so i'm currently having this issue and i was wondering if there's any chance you could tell me how you dealt with it or whatever i love that i'm gonna start doing that please do like if i can ever help on something like please do but also i feel like because that's it's so interesting that we don't think about that with social media because that's generally how people do things in the rest of their job so say you yeah you will message people that you worked in hr with and you're like oh can you help me on this or whatever and people do that with like past colleagues like we might have someone who's working in logistics here and they'll be like i don't actually know how to head up that project but i have a friend who i know did that or i have a previous colleague but we don't think about that on social media but we really should we just start messaging each other I agree yeah hello but I think you know you don't ask you don't get your story definitely definitely um well I feel like that's a really really good place to wrap up I feel like I mean your story is just incredible and one that is both hugely inspiring and also just like I you can so see when you look at the Canems page now when you look at your page now on Instagram it's so easy to kind of look at it and be like wow what a nice end goal and like what how beautiful this looks and how like the canham's art direction is amazing and like it all looks so incredible and like i can really imagine someone going there seeing that it's like in harvey nichols and being like this is a brand it's just a brand it's an established brand it's a brand that makes things your story behind it and how much you've been through and how like tenacious you've been at like i know i've said that word a number of times because it is literally like the most valid word i it's one of my favorite words yeah I completely agree most valid words I could possibly use to describe you and I feel like you're just such it's so inspiring to hear that story and I hope you are as proud of yourself as everyone is of you like hearing your story and what you've been through and how you've got to where you are now thank you I am I am I think it's been a journey and it's a roller coaster but I'm fully embracing the fact that it's a roller coaster and you know as you You know, the whole journey of Canems has been a roller coaster, but I've had bigger challenges and obstacles before this throughout my life.

1:05:49So for me, it just feels like, you know, we just need to keep the momentum going and keep focused on the end goal. Yeah, no, absolutely. And I feel like when you look back at your story as well, if there's one thing that it really shows you is every time there's a roller coaster, there's like a bigger up afterwards. And you've made that like you've made that happen. but also like every roller coaster now and everything that puts pushes you to the edge of your limits now that is clearly something showing you where your next inflection point is exactly and I think I wrote on one of my posts on social media where based on my past life and all the challenges and obstacles that I've gone through and having succeeded and you know looking at where I am at today it shows me that nothing is impossible and every single time I'm faced with a future challenge or a problem, there's no way I'm not going to overcome it.

1:06:35I have so much confidence in myself and I am proud of myself based on looking at everything that I have overcome and achieved to date. So it's all onwards and upwards. As you should be. Well, thank you so much for coming on. Thank you for sharing your story. And I reckon that everyone will just go and follow you after this because you're amazing and I want to see it every day. Thank you. You're amazing.

1:07:01Thank you.