Ep. 84 The Truth About Nutrition With Em The Nutritionist

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1:29Emily English is a nutritionist on a mission. She's a qualified nutritionist with a BSc from King's College London and she now has over a million followers who love her easy and healthy recipes and simple explanations. If you follow her on Instagram you'll know that Emily is a glowing picture of health but it actually wasn't until her relationship with food really suffered that she decided to explore our relationship with food as a whole. I can't thank Emily enough for sharing her story on this episode and being so open about the struggles that she's faced to get to where she is now. I really quizzed her in this episode about the fundamentals of diet and nutrition and how we can genuinely integrate all of the advice that there is out there, all of the incredibly conflicting advice a lot of the time, into actionable things that we can include in our day-to-day.

2:11There is so much actionable advice in this episode which I am very, very pleased with and things that I will very much be incorporating. I really hope you enjoy it. Before we get into this episode, I would absolutely love if you could go and rate the podcast. It's probably not something that you think about at all and it's something that I think about and I'm going to ask you to go and rate it because this is how we get amazing guests like Emily on. It makes a huge difference to the amount of amazing conversations that we can have and I personally am on a mission to improve my life in all aspects, which requires talking to these incredible people, which is really facilitated by you following and rating the podcast.

2:50Thank you so much for joining me. Thank you for having me. I'm very excited for our conversation. I make your recipes all the time. Do you? Yeah. I'm not the domestic person in my house. Let me just get that clear first. Okay. Which is a testament to how great your recipes are in terms of like ease which I just feel is incredibly important because otherwise I would live off genuinely microwave meals for the rest of my life but I think like my I make the recipes based on what do I want to eat for that lunch or that dinner which means that I'm really busy so it has to be accessible and I have to be able to get all the ingredients like from my local Sainsbury's yeah and I think that's why people actually make my food it's because it's not this oh I'm going to save that because it looks amazing and beautiful and I make it on a special occasion I make food for the everyday which is yeah which I feel like is very much what comes across in terms of like how people will then make them for themselves did you come from a household where there was like a lot of cooking so my granny is a chef oh really yeah so she has her own restaurant it was called cornfields and it was like the local favorite yeah her food was so good it's still imprinted in my mind and my first job was actually in her kitchen so I used to go and prep all of the food all the veggies for the sundae roast I used to make all the starters so I used to bread about like a hundred pieces of brie and then really yeah and do it all and I loved it because seeing the power of food and the way that it's able to elicit an emotion in someone it's it's not just food it's a moment it's happiness it's joy it's it's sharing part of you with with others and that's what I loved and our household was always the hosting household really so I come from a really big family I'm one of five so there was seven of us every single birthday whether it be granny uncle aunt we always hosted and my mum would do this like lasagna it probably weighed like 10 kilograms and like these massive bowls of just like endless salads and I would always be around the the women in my life in the kitchen and that was like a real focal point for us in our home.

5:05And so did you know that that was something that you would always want to kind of spend time doing? No, like not at all. I loved food as a kid, but at that time when I was younger, I never took nutrition seriously. I didn't really know what nutrition was. Like nutrition's what you do when you go on a diet. That's what I thought. And I was obsessed with science. So I loved biology. I loved chemistry. I loved understanding how the body worked. I knew that I didn't necessarily want to be a doctor, but I wanted to do something that was maybe like human physiology and maybe become even something like physiotherapy and get into that kind of realm.

5:43But at that point in my life, never would I ever think that I would be here doing this as my career. So tell me a little bit about how you got here then. so when I was younger I was at the festival and I got a tap on my shoulder and someone said hi like would you like to come in for an in-house casting for ASOS and at the time that was like the biggest dream come true to me and I went it went really well and I had the happiest period of my life at ASOS I loved it the team were amazing you were modeling and I was modeling in-house yeah and I felt so secure and supported and because I was enjoying it so much the the model booker said em like I know an agency would you like to get a modeling agency and I said yeah yeah like let's do it let's kind of like step outside the realm and I remember signing up to this agency and kind of like being released into the big bad world of fashion industry and I don't have thick skin like I'm not rough and relentless like a lot of people who who are in that industry are because like you kind of have to be I couldn't take criticism so when I was criticized on my physical body by my agency I don't know what it did to me but it like flipped a switch in my head that I was like oh my goodness I'm not good enough they're they're unhappy with me do you know I'm gonna do like because I'm such a people pleaser I'm gonna make sure I commit myself a hundred and I'm going to lose this weight be the best person for them when I went online to try and find tips and advice of how to lose weight I mean I'm sure like we're we both come from the same era of like that social media toxic diet culture and it was cut out this you cannot eat this this is so bad for you like nutrition literally means every single thing that I knew about my love of food it was the opposite I suddenly became unable to sit and eat dinner with my family so my mum would make dinner for all of us and I would go into the kitchen after she'd she'd make something and I'd cook something for myself or I would get this like weird obsession where I would say to my mum I'll cook dinner tonight or I'll stand over the stove being like don't add that oil because that's going to make me fat it stole every single thing that I love about food because it used to be cannot wait to eat in that restaurant to being petrified for any social plans everything became a threat to to me and me trying to achieve this perfection goal for that agency and it was months and months of that until I literally had this breaking point where I just knew that this is not what I wanted my life to be and I remember I left my agency at the time I continued working at ASOS for for a few more months but I was like do you know what it's time to go to uni and I don't want to study human physiology anymore I actually want to study nutrition because I knew that I had this huge gap in my understanding of the human body with what I eat so at that point how old were you I went to uni when I was I must have been 19 so I took two years out I always try and get like confused I get confused about this timeline so I was scouted when I was probably 16 going on 17 probably developed my eating disorder when I was 18 and then by the time I actually went to uni I was like 19 turning 20.

9:19Okay and so you went there for three years to study nutrition yeah and at that point because obviously you know you'd had this disordered relationship with eating how much do you think that influenced your decision to do nutrition in a positive way and how much do you think it influenced that in like a negative way because I can understand how you would want to know more about it for both reasons and I can understand why as you're coming out of that relationship with like that disordered relationship with food how also it would kind of be wanting to not know anything about it yeah I have a very kind of pragmatic mind when it comes to uh kind of what I do and what I want to know and I have to know the answer I'm the kind of person who when I watch a movie I sit there and I google the whole synopsis of the movie because I have to know what happens at the end it's very much split into the mental side of my eating disorder the the aspects of people pleasing and control which comes from like my childhood issues versus the actual food so it was that thing of like okay I want to eat well but I also want to eat what I enjoy and I want to understand a little bit more about nutrition and that's the side of me that kind of drove me to want to study nutrition a for never wanting to be in that place again and be for that desire to be able to kind of learn and share with others because I'm not the only person who has left the fashion industry with a scar it's it's absolutely relentless and that's why every single thing that I do now I always try and think what would little Emily need or take from this like would she find this valuable would she find this useful is this promoting happiness as well as health and that's where that kind of like drive to to go to go and study it really came from and so from that point to actually obviously what you do now like a lot of that is on social media like what was the tipping point in terms of actually building that up as a career so I never had like a personal Instagram I deleted it um and it wasn't until just before COVID I used to have um a job that I used to work for a genetic testing company it was in common garden um and I liked it but I didn't love it I've always loved working for myself and building and creating something of my own even when I was at school I was the kind of person who I would skip a lesson to study in the way that I wanted to and I thought you know what I really want to set up my own nutrition business so I remember registering my company going on Squarespace, setting up a website, putting my Google ads out there and COVID happened.

12:12And I remember it kind of being this like really weird time where I had to learn really quickly, okay, how do I make a business work? How do I find and attract customers? And it was that kind of very slow building period of my business that I thought, you know what, social media probably is going to be a really valuable tool. And what I used to do with my clients is I used to work in a very bespoke way. So I used to write all of their meal plans. So whenever I would create a nutritional plan for my client, I would listen to what they like to eat, what they enjoy, their time frames of what they can do around their work.

12:50And I would build in recipes around that. And the feedback was, wow, like we really, really love these. This is like the nicest healthy pasta dish I've ever had. or like this breakfast literally keeps me full for hours. So I started to post flat pictures just on Instagram of little recipes, nutrition advice. And this was literally the whole way during that lockdown period. And then reels became a thing. And I remember the first reel I ever recorded was I had my kitchen cabinet and I propped my phone up on the shelf of the open door of the kitchen cabinet and put my phone there had the chopping board underneath and I would film a recipe and I look back it's hilarious but I started and it wasn't it was probably six months before I ever got a reel that was above 2 000 views and then there was this one reel I think it was a greek salad with like a garlic bread toast and that got 10 and ever since that singular moment it's been a snowball effect and the biggest thing that I've taken from my social media or I would give advice for anyone trying to reach out there on social media is stick to the strategy find what you do and repeat it again and again and again and again because if it is good and if it is valuable it will gain traction and now like I look back and I'm so so pleased that I actually use social media as a tool because it's now my full-time business.

14:20I never thought that like from starting just a small little nutrition clinic as my own personal business would end up me being someone who is like publishing a recipe book and launching a probiotic company out of Instagram videos. I'd love to know a little bit more about like where that drive comes from. I know you even set up a delivery dark kitchen in lockdown. Like first of all I really want to know about that but also like your drive as a whole in terms of like what's next how am I going to do this I'd just love to know a bit more about that. So I've always had I guess what you'd describe as quite an obsessive personality I being that weird middle child in one of five is always a hard place to be because my older brother was incredibly smart did everything first ran first competed in like county trials first did his gcse's and a levels first obviously got all a's and a stars and i was just a little bit more average than him then my mom had three kids under the age of three so suddenly i lost my parents and that kind of emotional kind of support they couldn't give it to me they were amazing they loved me like entirely but i couldn't rely on my parents for helping me and and for advice and for homework help so I just got left in this situation where I was like I want to do all these things with my life and I want to be this person that people turn around and say wow and we're so proud or like you know what you're amazing and it's always just led to this kind of inner fuel but also really cruel inner critic because I always say no one can be meaner to me than myself and sometimes that inner critic can keep me on my toes and keep me kind of driving forward but sometimes I just have those days I'm like oh god I actually do wish I could just relax and take a holiday but then I'll take half a day I'll get itchy feet by the afternoon so I think it's kind of like a amalgamation of my childhood my growing up and my want and desire to just like achieve all the things I know that I can achieve and what I have tried to change over these last six months is stop seeking external validation of people telling me that I've done a good job and tell myself that I've done a good job tell myself that I'm proud of me like and I say that out loud and even now it feels a bit like odd and weird but like if I can give myself a hug and show me love my world and life is just going to be such like a nicer place to live and what at the moment you've obviously got to a place where as you say you're releasing a cookbook you're starting a probiotics company what are you at the moment in this point in your career struggling most with the pressure because when you climb high there's a long way to fall and sometimes it can literally feel like I'm scaling a building without any safety harness on and one wrong foot I feel like I could lose everything and I've always had that fear with whatever I do with whatever I achieve whenever I feel happy or proud there's that tiny thing that says don't get too excited it could all be gone tomorrow and that's such a shame because when when you do so much and I've worked so hard and I've achieved so much now I should be able to just freely celebrate that and not have this kind of like consistent worry and anxiety that it's just gonna go and so how are you dealing with that therapy once a week trying to kind of like repetitively change my thoughts my thinking habits because it's that whole thing when you think of a routine or habit like brushing your teeth it becomes really normal but when we're constantly sitting there berating ourselves telling ourselves that we're not good enough that our skin's horrible that no one likes us or that person's judging you it becomes normal and it almost becomes as normal as brushing your teeth whereas it's why I think the whole area of like manifesting and self-love and gratitude is becoming really big because there actually is like a scientific place for it the more you repeat something the more routine like and easier it gets for you to genuinely feel that so if you're able to turn around and be like I'm so lucky I'm safe like everything's okay like like you're you're loved that will start to kind of feed in and I say that I sit here and I know I'm not the best person for me all the time but I'm trying to be yeah no and I think that's incredibly important and understanding like where you contribute to you not necessarily feeling great but also where you can contribute to like how you ensure that your mind is a safe place to be so that you're you know like whatever you're going through like you can be able to protect yourself I'd love to know more about how social media has contributed to what you find hard in that way how does social media contribute in that way to like how you're currently feeling and what you're currently struggling with it's everything and it's a really hard position to be in because I love my audience like when people come up to me and they tell me how much my food has changed their life that they made this recipe yesterday they'll send me pictures of like them and their whole family there was a girl the other day who was like like my I got made redundant I had to move back home with my family and I've been making your recipes for me and my parents every night it's like it literally gives me light and that is everything but the trolls are like crippling

20:30when things grow so fast sometimes it just like take a little bit getting used to so one of the hardest things that I find is out of a hundred amazing lovely comments one comment will be the last thing that I think about before bed and as someone who's been such a people pleaser i find it really hard to take criticism and the worst thing is it's like sometimes i feel annoyed because i know that these trolls are sitting there probably listening to this they watch everything i do they watch every single story like everything and they'll sit there and try and make me feel bad about myself. And it's like I make free recipes that I care and want to make people happier and healthier about.

21:28I put them out every single week with, like, love in my heart for what I do and every single person that follows me. And there are some days that I literally just cry. And I say to Aaron, my partner, I'm like, why does this make everything that I'm working for feel so hard? And I think that's the kind of thing with social media. And I'm trying to like get better and not let it in. But social media is both the most amazing thing, but it's also the worst thing. and anyone who is a creator and puts themselves out there I'm sorry cancel culture is just disgusting and it has it has to stop people have to understand that just because you you put yourself out there and you make content and and people see you are still human and if you went up to someone's face and said the things that you say to me like what would the reaction be to the people around you yet everyone just thinks it's okay to sit in comment sections and send dms and troll i have so much to say um firstly thank you for being so open i think it's really important and i think that it's really easy to think okay but someone's gonna listen to this and they're gonna think they've won sure that's great good for them they can get their win today because if that's their win then they can fucking have it like that's not a win to anyone else like best of luck with that win if that's what you consider winning in life but I also feel like a huge part of that is like you're exactly what you've said you're putting recipes out for people like the fact that you putting recipes out for people can elicit such a strong reaction that it can lead to it doesn't matter what you're like you're a people pleaser because you like to make people happy and you can deal with that in therapy and you can deal with like why that is and you can deal with all of these things fine great self-development fantastic but that being the reason that you will have entire days that you cry because people are so furious about someone who puts recipes out online is just fucking pathetic like as in like it really it really puts it into perspective when you think and I remember like I talk about the time where like I used to have this like compulsion to check gossip sites about myself like it was when I was doing a lot of YouTube and I just like had this I checked them every single day and I thought it was making me a better person because I thought if I can know what people don't like about me then I can change it and I can make myself a better person like first of all like how backwards is that yeah like what do you mean I need to change myself to make myself a better person to someone who hasn't spent two minutes with me my entire life.

24:27But also on top of that, like what I used to do in that time, the only thing that made that better was, I remember that I was on this one family holiday and I broke down, like I completely broke down. And I was just like, I feel like I must just be like horrible person. I must just be like really unlikable because like, otherwise, why would I get this? And I remember they were like, what are they saying? Like, what are they saying? And I remember reading out this gossip thread. And as soon as I started reading it out, I was like, this is funny like this is like hilarious like as if you've had that strong a reaction to me talking about what I'm doing at the gym or to me making a recipe or to me like doing any of that like that is not normal and that is not a reflection of the fact that I've been to the gym or made a recipe that is a reflection of that person that comment whatever it might be tells you absolutely nothing about yourself.

25:20Like, I can tell you that for free. Because also, even if it's a reflection of something that you did that you didn't, that someone else didn't like, that's the someone else that didn't like that. Like, don't get me wrong, there are things that people say online that they should absolutely get negative feedback for, they should absolutely have, you know, things, things that help them grow. And there are certain people that like, absolutely, like, it's not, those aren't the people that are suffering with what you're currently feeling. and I do just think when you like put it into perspective and you're like hearing you feel so upset and so taken to heart about what people have said about you for creating recipes like what is the world honestly like that is that is nuts it's honestly like sometimes I feel like a little bit flabbergasted because I like I make my money through my incredible brand partnerships that I do and I'm so lucky that I get to work with some of the top brands in the world and that's amazing and they have a problem with it and I sometimes it's just like I've just got to the point now where a I never read it I swore on my partner's life that I would never ever read those things again and I'm understanding now that it's not me it's just a reflection of them and they can continue to do that again and again and again because in my heart I know that I'm only going to continue doing what I do and what I believe in and I know that I'm good at and I just think with time time is the only thing that's going to make this easier because it's all happened so quickly for me but it's like it's that same feeling of like when you're at school and you're like oh grace did you know that like lily's talking about you it gives you that like stomach dropping churning feeling and it's just it's never never nice and it is sometimes just like the price that we slightly have to pay i think that and don't get me wrong like the reason i obviously have so many thoughts about this is because like i have you've been a victim yeah like as in i've absolutely been through that i've you know i have a lot of thoughts on it i have a lot of thoughts on um all of it I just think that like when you put it in perspective and you like when you read it out loud it's laughable yet when you read it with yourself and you internalize it it's crippling and I always want to like now try and make more of an effort to like laugh at it laugh at it and like understand that it's nothing to do with what I'm doing and just keep on going at the end of the day I am I've become so successful I've got my debut cookbook which we think is going to be a Sunday Times bestseller coming out I've got an incredible probiotic company that's about to launch next month I work with amazing brands people love my recipes they have incredible engagement like that should fill up my pot and one nasty person who doesn't like what I'm doing because I've done well shouldn't have the impact that they have on my life and you know it and like you can you can say that and like it's it's so true I think that it really puts the world into perspective when we when like I don't think there's a single person who would listen to this and think there's someone here who's really upset and struggling with the The fact that people are so horrible based on the fact that she's making recipes.

28:58Like, as in, like, when you put that together, you're like, I don't feel like the recipes are the problem here. Like, I feel like there might be like a cultural issue, like generally. Thank you for being so open about that. I feel like that. Yeah, it's just it's really important to hear and talk about and put in perspective. And I hope you like I hope the more you're taking power away from it by talking about it. And I think that is incredibly important.

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30:32And now listeners of this podcast can get 15 % off their first order. Just head to wearfigs.com and use code FIGSRX at checkout. That's wearfigs.com, code FIGSRX. I want to talk about the fundamentals of nutrition. And I don't want to do it insensitively based on the fact that we've just... I just cried. No, it's fantastic. No, did you know that your excess hormones actually come out in your tears? Really? Yeah, so crying is a great way to detox. Well, that is why you feel that kind of like, oh, I needed that cry. Yeah, like I really needed that cry. Wow. You learn something new every day and now we're about to learn more.

31:08I want to talk about where you think people are going wrong with their diet. So people separate eating and health. and you think of okay when i'm going to eat healthy i'm not going to eat the foods that i know and i enjoy and that for me is the downfall of everything you do not have to change a lot about what you do to integrate nutrition and better choices into your lifestyle and that's why when you go through my feed you see pasta dishes stir fries lasagnas meatballs like whatever it is it's all recognizable food nutrition isn't buckwheat bread with I don't know some weird berry and sprouts for breakfast and fasting till 3 p.m every single day like it doesn't have to be this overwhelming change and I just think that's where it's all gone wrong it's as soon as I walk into a room and say I'm a nutritionist people automatically have a an assumption about who I am and what I do and they always ask me oh so like oh does that mean that you like don't eat pizza I'm like absolutely not like where does this come from and I'm really keen like my mission in life is to show people that they can integrate nutrition into their day and still enjoy it still be still be accessible and actually be something that they can sustain because if you're going to make a health choice or conscious health choice if it's not sustainable don't even bother because if you're going to stick to that for a month there's 365 days in a year and health is not determined by one day one week one month it's it's determined by consistency throughout your life and if you're trying to implement something that you know that you cannot be consistent with throughout your life drop drop it and so where do people start if someone's kind of had that approach throughout their whole life that like a diet is a diet and eating is completely is like something else and health is something else entirely how would you recommend them to start in terms of building that kind of relationship with food where it's intertwined with health but not so much so that I think a lot of the time we we equate health with being as small as possible as well so how does someone start to break those things down and have that kind of approach to food so it's about adding and i always say so many of us eat the same vegetables like everyone goes to the supermarket and they'll get their carrots their broccoli their beans um their peas maybe a pepper and that's it and that will be their vegetable rotation if you are able to diversify your diet still make your spag bowl but maybe chuck in some lentils and some sweet potato and if you're going to be having like a side salad as well and the more you can add to your diet the more you can ensure that you're getting in every single thing that you need and I always say like color and diversity is nature's multivitamin so the more things that you can get and add to what you already know the meals that you already make that is the easiest and best kind of jump off point buy frozen as well it doesn't have to be organic from your local market and really expensive you can literally go and buy a whole massive bags of like pre-chopped frozen peppers chuck them in your next stir fry a whole massive bag of like pre-sliced mushrooms like chuck that in your next breakfast it doesn't have to be weird and health driven for it to be healthy and it's it's take what you have and add what about when you know it's of like really poor nutritional values so ultra processed foods or a dominoes yeah what's your approach to those so i always say you have to look at your diet from like a bird's eye view perspective and the the food is not controlling you you're making conscious decisions about what you put into your body so if part of what makes you happy is a dominoes with your friends on a friday night fine but what you're not going to do is build that up to be some massive thing that you feel pressured and stressed and guilty over it's just a pizza we know that ultra processed foods are not good for us i will never turn around and be like yeah do you know what domino is fantastic like great nutritional value but if you do have that or if that is something that you value and want in your life you do not have to cut it out to be healthy we all need to minimize our intake of them And if we're looking at the overall pattern of how we're eating, just being a little bit more aware of like the total number of ultra processed foods that we're having, that's where you can actually make that valuable change.

36:04And just look at the bigger picture. It's not one ultra processed food determines all of your health. That's like saying if I eat like crap and I have one salad once a week, then I'm going to be healthy. it's it's vice versa like if I eat really well and have one pizza in that week then I'm unhealthy that's just not true of course patterns repetitive behaviors if you're literally getting to three o 'clock after not eating properly in the day and you suddenly raid the ultra processed foods in that cupboard we need to start thinking about how you're eating around the rest of the day and and stop that kind of afternoon slump pitfall which so many people have like that's the point when people are on a diet they won't eat proper breakfast or they'll skip breakfast they have a tiny little salad for lunch it doesn't have enough protein and fiber and they don't even enjoy it then they'll get to three or four and they'll be like i'm absolutely ravenous i'm starving i need to pick me up and it's the crisps it's the chocolate it's the sugary drinks and like people use that as their kind of like they get so desperate that they have to start to rely on it whereas if you actually started your day with a lovely big breakfast full of protein lots of color and diversity ate properly so it's to fuel what you need take your lunch again it can be something that you can prep we're lucky as well we have loads of fantastic grab and go healthy options now but have something that satisfies you think about how you're going to feel after your meal and then you'll notice that that afternoon stump doesn't have the same control over you anymore the the chocolate doesn't scream your name being like please eat me like suddenly it becomes oh do you know what it's I don't actually really fancy that chocolate or I'm gonna have that chocolate and I'm fine it doesn't become this level of desperation I think you always have to think about when it comes to nutrition how does food make you feel and that is one of the most important things when it comes to changing your nutrition and also making kind of better food choices throughout the day.

38:03What about that kind of instant gratification versus delayed gratification when it comes to how to does food make you feel because I'm the type of person that has a complete disconnect between the fact that like I actually probably feel worse after I eat certain food so for example I have a specific addiction to pick and mix and I feel ready to admit this what about that in terms of like okay I know I don't this doesn't actually make me feel good but it does make me feel good in the moment that I'm eating it. How can we kind of move away from that disconnect? Hybrid the tune. And that's why my whole ethos is the food you want to eat designed by a nutritionist because I design my recipes structured in a way that I know that you're going to feel full and satisfied.

38:49So that obviously is like the delayed effect. That means I'm going to keep you nice and balanced. Your blood sugar is going to be nice and balanced. So that delay or how you feel afterwards is nice and balanced. but you're also eating something you go oh that is so good like it's delicious I'm taste wise I am satisfied with it too if we're taking for example your account of pick and mix I would always say never have that type of sugar on an empty stomach so it's having it on an empty stomach which is going to cause this massive spike a massive crash which is going to make you feel sluggish tired fatigued you're on that blood sugar roller coaster whereas if you had a great lunch that you really enjoyed that left you satisfied and then you had the nice portion of pick and mix afterwards the physiological effect of that pick and mix is totally different after a meal than if you had it on an empty stomach so you're not going to have that feeling of feeling so sluggish and tired if you pair it appropriately so that's just like a really small and smart thing that you can do to still fit in something that you can do I'm not saying obviously finish every single lunch with a bag of pick and mix but in an appropriate way that you know is going to satisfy you because it's something you enjoy but it's not going to leave you feeling kind of like terrible afterwards I have ADHD and I always have to be doing something like as in like genuinely constantly pretty like it's not great um but it also means that like what I've realized is actually so much kind of snacking is actually due to inactivity like as in it's not so like I can't sit on a long car journey or a long plane ride like it's not that I want food it's that I like constantly have to be doing something and that is like a good way of like occupying myself within that moment um and I only drew the parallel between that like within the past few years what would you recommend for kind of people who've identified things within their life that are probably at odds with their relationship with nutrition or them getting good nutrition or them even acting how they want to act when it comes to nutrition what would you recommend for people in terms of like building up positive habits as you just said like the word habit is consistently doing that same thing over a long period of time before it ever becomes an instilled habit so if someone is struggling or they feel like they've got something that they just cannot break whether that be um kind of binge eating constant snacking kind of when they're sitting still constantly happy to do something a kind of alternative distraction is great so even little things like listening to to focused music listening to podcasts this is also a fantastic podcast to listen to thank you so much um and the other thing as well is like choosing something that's like a little bit more healthy and balanced but still tactile so lots of lovely crudités and you can make your own kind of like vinaigrette dip so you can get like olive oil white wine vinegar mustard um salt and vinegar um a little bit of honey and like dip it in it's that kind of like sweet sour salty sharp crunchy loads of fiber probably getting in lots of lovely diversity and that's like a nice swap to make so you can still sit there and munch on something but it's not going to be as detrimental as like plowing through a whole share bag of of dairy milk buttons which which you can do and i think if you have that kind of feeling that you aren't able to control certain habits around your nutrition changing your environment can be a really really strong um thing to do as well so if you find that if you work in your kitchen for example and you're constantly back and forward up and up into the fridge up into the cupboards see if you can find another place that you can go and break up your day to work like can you go to a coffee shop can you even sit on your bed or like if you don't have a desk so changing your environment is also another fantastic key but it's really hard but you always have to start by breaking the habit so find alternative purposes away from what is causing you that stress and that issue yeah and just start relentlessly every single time you feel yourself going left be yourself right yeah because it's so funny with me it's just like it's complete opposite so like when I'm at the office for example like I am so like I will not pee for seven fucking hours like I will you literally see me there as if I'm like being like wired up to something like I will literally like I will not stand up I will not eat I will not pee I will not like which is so different from the fact that like if I have any inactivity like sitting on a plane journey or a car journey or like whatever it might or like even watching a movie like that's where it like comes out but it's like if you're working completely against yourself like I always say if you're trying to be a morning person and you are the type of person who works best at like in the evening yeah and you're like trying over and over and over again and then getting so disappointed with yourself and getting into this cycle of like failure then you are being just as harmful even though you're aiming to do the right thing such an important point like and I always say the same for nutrition there is not a one-size-fits-all approach to what we eat and the moment we start comparing our diets to someone else's like you're only setting yourself up for feeling guilty or feeling like a failure if you wake up and you're not hungry and you don't need to have breakfast you do not have to have breakfast just because I have a lovely massive breakfast because I wake up starving doesn't mean that you're doing anything wrong and I think this pressure of the nutrition industry is something that really needs to change and it's actually one of the things I love about the kind of current movement that I feel like we're feeling in the world of fitness and nutrition and wellness is that we're really encouraging people to find their own paths and find their own journeys because our uniqueness is actually what makes us all fantastic i always say inspiration over pressure if you feel like you're trying to do something that is putting pressure on you you need to switch it around and fill your life with the things that are inspiring you because if you're inspired you're much more likely to do something that a you actually enjoy and b you're actually going to stick to yeah no 100 and you talk a lot about the idea of diet context could you tell me a little bit more about that so it's basically like if we're thinking about having a plate of food and let's just take red meat for example because red meat is one of the things that is actually kind of linked to things like certain cancers but when you have a piece of red meat and you pair it with antioxidants and lots of fiber that cancer risk goes down so when we're thinking about diet context it's about food pairings and your overall plate as a whole rather than just these singular nutrients within our food and i always say we don't eat nutrients we eat food so you sit there with a plate of something you sit there with a big chili con carne with rice and avocado and sour cream and there are lots of compliments when it comes to what's in our food and and our health and it's why when people come to me and they're like uh I can't is it true that I can't drink oat milk anymore I'm like well okay if you're like maybe chugging like five coffees a day and they're all lattes and drinking like two liters of it and there's probably like a large portion of your nutrition is coming from oat milk but if you're waking up and putting a little splash in your coffee diet context you have to think about your overall intake not focus on these like little things and that's the thing with media and nutrition they need the headline they need something to write about they need they need the next thing to scapegoat and tell us is really bad for us and we all need to kind of be scared of there's nothing really to be scared of if the overall pattern of your diet is good if you're getting in all of the lovely fresh fruits and vegetables you're getting loads of different colors like purple orange reds all the good stuff if you're doing that and you have a coffee with omelkin and maybe a diet coke when you're on on your sun lounge or on holiday like don't stress about it like it's not this like big oh my goodness everything's going to fall apart just because I'm having this one thing which apparently isn't good for me no I think that is like we all just need to hear that over and over and over again yeah And I think that it's been so taught into us, especially with things like tabloid culture and like, especially with like the way we can only really consume one thing at once.

47:23And like, we'll pay attention to this one thing and then we'll go to this side and then we'll go to this side without actually looking at anything as a whole. What would you change about how we teach particularly young girls about diet and nutrition? oh this is something that i'm really passionate about and one thing that when i went to uni that really surprised me is that a lot of nutritionists can't cook and i feel that's probably where the biggest issue comes from right in the nutrition industry because because i come from a family of chefs and i am a good cook i can marry that together with what i know is good for the body whereas a lot of nutrition is still taught in that very kind of like modular your vitamins your macronutrients your calories whereas we actually need to be thinking about things in more of like yeah like like a joyful cooking assembly like what do people want to eat what do people crave what what's going to make people feel good and i would love to transform food tech at school because i'm sure you remember food tech we only ever used to get food tech i'm livid did you not oh but then everyone always used to eat whatever they made before they'd ever get home and i don't come sorry andy's really staring at me he's shocked that i haven't had food and i don't come from like a home cooked meal family yeah yeah so i feel like let me tell you there is a different amount of like happy hormones that are released from my body when i get home cooked meal from anywhere like that to me is better than like literally anything imagine if you went to school and food tech was combined with nutrition and it was how before you're about to go to uni teaching girls how to create meals are good for their hormones good for their focus good for their sleep their energy these are things these are valuable tools which add and help people live healthier better lives nutrition is not just about weight loss it's literally feeds everything it feeds your mood it feeds anxiety it feeds your skin health it feeds like your hormone levels it feeds your stress levels like everything is impacted in the body by what you eat and i would love to see this movement in the curriculum when it comes to schools where we hybrid cooking and nutrition together because I also believe that as a nutritionist you should know how to to kind of cook and put a meal together because it has to be actionable that's that's like having I don't know like I'm trying to think of what you would compare it to it would be like learning in in PE it would be like learning about exercise and never doing never actually doing it so do you think we shouldn't be thinking about calories at all well it depends on what your goals are.

50:13I used to work with lots of perimenopausal women and also women who'd like just given birth and their goals were weight loss and when it comes to overall weight loss of course energy balance matters but the misconception that a calorie is a calorie is false. So a calorie is not just a calorie and the best way to describe this is basically if I had a handful of almonds versus almond butter. So if you eat that handful of almonds you'll probably be extracting maybe like 70 % of the overall calories available in those almonds and that's because of the fiber because of the structure the way we digest these the energy cost of digestion as well so when things are harder to break down it costs our body more calories to be able to break it down whereas if I have almond butter it's already pre-digested and I'm probably able to absorb 100 % of the energy available within that almond butter it's why when we see people eat whole food context diets they're much more able to manage their weight because the energy demand of digestion the overall way that it kind of interacts with our body and our hormones is different and the overall energy we're able to extract from the food is also different whereas ultra-processed foods are basically highly available we're pretty much able to get 100 of the energy density within them and they're a lot easier to overeat because they lack a lot of the fiber and the stuff that slows down digestion and triggers the response to our brain that we are full and satisfied.

51:45It's why if you move to more of a plant-based focused approach and you are someone who is looking to kind of lose weight it's a much better option and it's why so much of the kind of like obesity crisis really is driven by the ultra processed food movement. All food is food but when we talk about healthy food that's just food that has more of the good stuff in that we need so a handful of almonds aren't just going to give me like calories they're going to give me vitamin e they're going to give me antioxidants they're going to be a great source of fiber especially if i'm having them with skin like lots of lovely anti-inflammatory fats whereas a snickers bar totally different thing maybe i can have a snickers bar and the same amount of calories in my hand with with the almonds but the the physiological response that's going to do to our body is totally different and that's why we say a calorie is not just a calorie because it depends where your calories are coming from I want to talk quickly about nutrition and the menstrual cycle yeah I first want to talk about the difference in and like the science behind cravings at different points within the cycle would you be able to talk about that for a little bit so when we go throughout our cycle, our hormones will basically influence A, cravings, what we're feeling like eating, what we're desiring to eat.

53:05And a lot of that is to do with our overall metabolism, our energy demand. So we actually see a spike in how many calories we burn on the run up to our period. And that's why when you have that kind of window where you're like, I'm starving, I'm ravenous, I want to eat everything. It's because your body actually needs a good few extra 100 calories a day just where you are on that cycle um and then of course we have a lot of things to do with like when you're in pain or if you have pretty bad PMS that can also affect things like appetite so I see this kind of mixed bag where certain people will actually not eat enough because they don't tend to have the right appetite or or they're not able to eat they feel so uncomfortable and then you obviously have people who crave all of the sugar all of the all of the good stuff depending on where they are and I think when it comes to female hormone health and nutrition it's not something that I'm an expert in so it's not something that I'll confidently able to say okay I know everything there is to know about like what to do and when but there's a level of intuition that we have to have with our own bodies and also like a level of understanding so if you are someone who at certain points of your period really really needs chocolate honor that craving but don't necessarily like have five whispers like it can still be a balance before we end i'd like to go through some quick fire questions that are actionable for people to be able to include in their kind of everyday generally making a move to better nutrition what are your five go-to pantry basics always have a pack of pre-cooked grains so you always buy like pre-cooked quinoa pre-cooked rice yeah fantastic because if i ever want a really quick grab-and-go dinner bit of protein bit of veg whack one of those in the microwave or if you don't if you microwave please just put it in the pan and stir fry and it's absolutely fine um another two would always be having um like a go-to protein so having tin lagoons so tin chickpeas, tinned butter beans, tinned cannellini beans.

55:14If you eat fish, tinned tuna sits there. It lasts for ages and it just means that if I get home, for example, if I only have half an hour, I know I can literally open the cupboard. Go. Number three would be a good olive oil. So when choosing an olive oil, dark bottle always. Never buy olive oil that's been sitting on the shelf in a clear glass bottle. The sunlight actually reduce the antioxidant content. So we want an olive oil, extra virgin olive oil that's really grassy really bitter like full of all the good stuff um number four would be like what i basically call flavor enhancers so they'd be like my capers my olives my sun-dried tomatoes anything that i'll add to a meal and makes it feel a little bit fancy and bougie but tastes really good um just makes you again enjoy your meals more number five would always be a good nut butter because i cook and use nut butter all the time so i'll use it in stir fries i'll use it in dressings i'll use it to marinate things i'll use it in desserts full of all of those amazing healthy fats loads of vitamin e like really skin loving and really satisfying as well so multi-purpose and functional that was a great answer i feel like people will very much like that and it's just makes sense it's about i feel like it's about availability and making things accessible to yourself like we need to stop making life so hard for ourselves Like we need to stop making an optimized life so hard for ourselves.

56:35Like we take in all of this information and we're like, oh my God, now this is like a hundred things I need to remember every day. And it's like, you don't need to remember them. You need to make them present and you need to make them actionable and you need to make it the simple option. Like every single thing you need to make the simple option and then you're good. Healthy convenience for the win. Buy pre-cooked proteins, buy the pre-cooked grains and whatnot. Like make your life easier. No, I think that is... a good piece of advice. How should we go about planning our meals? So I always say you should know at least three to four recipes off by heart.

57:12Recipes that are quick, easy, that you enjoy, that you know are good for you because then you're able to whip them up without thought. You really don't want to be spending a lot of time thinking about what you're going to eat. You have your go-tos. I have a go-to like one pot Thai green curry which I put everything into one pot so i tip coconut milk green curry paste soy sauce fish sauce all the chopped vegetables i put the dried noodles directly in the pot as well add my prawns put the lid on go change shower come back open the lid done so if you're able to find those meals that you can just quickly whack out and a lot of the ingredients i use across recipes so if i buy a store cupboard or like a fridge staple shop, I know that I'll be able to make all of those recipes using what I always have in my fridge.

57:59If I ever know that I'm running low on peppers, I go out, stock back up on peppers. So understanding the foundation of what you need to have access to to be able to make all the meals that are quick, easy, simple, but a few. Amazing, love that. And what is your best hack for meal prepping? So I always say, try and make things that you know you're going to enjoy a few days afterwards. So a lot of people will meal prep, and then they'll never meal prep again because it goes gross, slimy, soggy, and just not nice. I have a lot of recipes I do on my Instagram that are called like salads that won't go soggy.

58:31Right. And the whole purpose is like, if you make this, you will happily take it into the office over the next few days and not open up a third day and be like, oh God, gross. Yeah, this was disgusting. I'm just going to go to Itzu instead. And it's, yeah, it's about doing things that you know are going to hold well and you're actually going to enjoy and going to taste good. And so my top tip would just be find the recipes that hold, work for you, and you're actually going to want to eat. What about snacking? What are your favorite go-to snacks that actually fill you up and are also nutritionally valuable?

59:03So I love a good yogurt bowl. And I have this like yogurt bowl that I do where I'll get good Greek yogurt. You crumble a rice cake into it. So hear me out. Crumble a rice cake, drizzle of peanut butter, frozen raspberries. Mix it together. It literally tastes like popcorn, nutty, like the raspberries are like sharp. The yogurt is creamy. It's amazing. It's like honestly amazing. And it's filling, satisfying, ultra high in protein, just enough of a pick me up when it comes to like the carbs in it to energize you. And that is my go to. Wow. I'll be trying it. It's really good. and lastly and this is not one for you to answer on the spot we are going to ask you for your three easiest weekday recipes we're going to put them in the show notes so we're going to put them in like the description box ones that take under 20 minutes so when you've said people need to learn three four recipes off by heart whatever it might be so that they can replicate those we want those and I'm going to learn them too because I need to learn that.

1:00:07I could do it off the bat. Really? Yeah, one pot Thai green curry, as I said. My satay stir fry udon and then my super greens kale pasta. All under 15 minutes. Sold. I'll take them all. Thank you so much for joining me. This has been amazing. Thank you for having me. Thank you.

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