[Exclusive] Sarah Ashcroft Reveals The Real Reason Why SLA Closed

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1:43What is up? I'm Grace Beverly and welcome back to Working Hard, the podcast shape guidebook on how to improve your own life and achieve what you actually dreamed of doing. Because life's too short for boring podcasts and bad advice.

1:57what is up and welcome back to working hard today's guest is someone you may remember from one of our most listened to episodes of last year sarah ashcroft sarah is one of the original fashion creators in the uk and in our last episode she took us through her journey turning her online presence into the fashion powerhouse that was sla the label but since then a lot has changed in february this year sarah announced that sla was closing for good this episode is the first time that she's speaking on a podcast about that situation, what led to it, how it felt to walk away from something she'd built from the ground up, and what she's learned in the months since.

2:28This is a conversation about identity, pressure, clarity, and the harsh reality of running a business in public. It is raw, it is very reflective, and it's going to resonate with anyone who's ever had to make a difficult decision or gone through a huge life change. And I'm so incredibly grateful to Sarah for choosing our podcast to speak to about exactly this. Can I just say that this would not have been an easy thing to talk about at all and not only has she not spoken about the ins and outs of this publicly but being able to come on and really speak so transparently about what went wrong, what should have been different and exactly what happened and what you wouldn't expect happens at liquidation I feel like is exactly what we need to hear because unless founders are open and honest, unless people talk transparently about what things they actually go through we cannot learn and I think that it is hugely generous of her to be so open and honest about this especially when she doesn't need to and especially when she's been through something so traumatic and such a huge life change so props to Sarah and I feel so grateful that she felt comfortable to come to speak to us about it.

3:43Sarah Ashcroft, are you currently more working hard or hardly working? I think we're going to have to go with hardly working, aren't we? I love that. She's unemployed. You're not unemployed. It's fine. I'm all right. And we'll go straight into it then because I feel like we have so much to talk about. We do. If you could sum up the last few months in a few words, how would you describe it? Oh, I mean, weirdly now relief, but I would say probably disbelief. You know, when you can't quite believe what you've gone through, that's probably the biggest word to describe everything. because it's just been a lot in a short space of time that it's kind of like, I feel like now I've come out the other side of it.

4:29I'm a little bit like, wow, did that all just happen? Right, like you've been through a blender. Yeah. Yeah, no, I can imagine that because I think that there are always periods of time that you go through that you come out the other end and you're like, what just happened? Like, what did I just face? And I feel like what you've obviously been through is a little bit complex in that a lot of these times are like super busy because of one reason or super intense because of another personal reason or whatever it might be. And I feel like, I mean, I assume you didn't know what it was like to go through what you've just been through.

4:57So there'll be so much that you're processing as well as having to deal with that in public, having to just be like, what am I doing now? And there's, I can imagine there's like so many emotions around that. Yeah, 100%. And I think the fear of like losing the business, I had that for so long that actually I just needed an end point, no matter what the end point was. So I think actually making the decision to put it into liquidation, weirdly, the relief came almost instantly the moment I made that decision. Because the emotions and everything leading up to it in the months beforehand were so horrific.

5:33And I was mentally in such a bad place that it was weird how I thought that doing the worst thing, which was to me putting the business into liquidation, actually ended up being the best thing to an extent because instantly it was almost like overnight, I just felt myself like breathe. Yeah. So it was like the thing I was so afraid of doing actually was what needed to happen the whole time. Right, absolutely. And I really want to go into that. Before we do, for anyone who didn't listen to the last episode and kind of doesn't know about your journey, could you give us a brief kind of overview of your journey starting SLA kind of up to now and then we'll go into really what's happened in the past 12 months.

6:15Yeah, for sure. So I started SLA back in 2019 and I did it. It's funny, I look at the way I started SLA now very differently to potentially how I looked at it before because I started it, I think, because it felt like I needed to, not because I actually wanted to. Okay. Which is weird because I feel like when you go through what I've gone through, you do evaluate and rethink through everything and I started the brand because I had the collections that I had within the style which I had for like two years and then obviously didn't enjoy that anymore and I was like I want to do my own thing started SLA but I kind of did it like most founders I think I didn't have an absolute clue what I was doing but looking back on it it was so chaotic constantly because I really didn't have a clue what I was doing so you know we launched and we started as loungewear and we were loungewear for like two years and then we like ping-ponged around doing like swimwear then we moved into like glitter.

7:07And actually when you kind of look at the journey of SLA, it was hectic. And I think only now when I look back on it, I kind of not see why it failed because it didn't fail because it was hectic, but the lessons that I've learned through the journey of SLA, I feel like I would do everything so differently now. Right. I can't explain it. It's sort of like, although I'm so proud of what SLA was and what I turned it into, I can kind of see why it failed. I don't know how to, I just, I, it's hard to explain that but it just felt like the whole time I felt like I was like holding my breath. Right, right.

7:45Well, hindsight is 2020. Yeah. Like it's really, I think that if I, for example had a few months to step away from Tala I think I would have a lot more clarity on what we're doing right and what we're doing wrong. Yeah. And I think that that's one of the big downfalls of being a founder is that you you are so busy and you shouldn't be so busy like I've heard so many things out there of kind of you can't be a good founder or you can't be running a company well if you're actually busy yeah because if you're busy you're not making the right decisions you're not spending enough time on things you're not spending enough time on the business and working out the trajectory and the strategy and all that but that's not a liberty that's really afforded to you as a founder because as a founder literally all you're doing is fighting fires all the time so it's like yes i know i would be better at my job if i had less to do at the same time i don't know how to get from where i am now to being at the point where everything runs better to the point that i have less to do yeah like i know that's what i should do i know i should be more i don't know how to get from this point to this point in order to be able to make better decisions and see things more from a bird's eye view yeah yeah i feel like i think the i i would always say to people before I lost SLA that I was kind of like you know if you want to start a business just start like you don't really need to know what you're doing you can kind of wing it but I kind of now I'm thinking I don't know if I believe that sure I feel like you I think everyone if they've got an idea should start it I'm so all for that but I think there actually is potentially more legwork that needs to go into something before you start a business whether it's even just like trying to find other founders that you can like ask advice from or you know taking a course on like even just the most simple things like how to market a product or how to you know deal with a supplier there's just things that potentially maybe you need to know before you start these things right I think there is that thing online where everyone's just like oh just start you work out as you go and I kind of feel like I'm slightly a bit maybe a bit the poster girl for like that doesn't actually always work out yeah and I think you know there's there's definitely there will be people who started who knew absolutely nothing and it went at the right pace in order that they were able to make mistakes at a slower rate so that it was less fatal to the business yeah i also think that like we always talk about how many benefits there are to having a quote-unquote influencer business right like you're given this you're not given this audience you built the audience that you're then selling to so you know them really well but there there is a ready-made audience they're kind of there that probably meant that you had to scale the business quicker than it was maybe ready for because i know i definitely did this i had to scale the business quicker than it was ready for because if I didn't then like what am I doing selling 100 units of something because people are going to be so angry that that is out of stock until you suddenly need to act as a business that has been around for a good few years but you haven't actually yet made the mistakes yeah of a business that's been around that time so maybe people maybe just start is also more of a more of something that people get when you can start and And go slow.

10:47And control it. Right. You actually, to be fair, you're so right. Like, I think the way you put it is so accurate in the sense that SLA was, like, propelled. Like, you know when it's like you probably the same thing where we launched and everything sold out in 24 hours. And that was obviously so exciting when it first launched. And then, but it's almost like that instant success constantly for, like, two years was, like, this growth that I didn't know how to control because I didn't know what I was doing. And I was massively winging it at the time. And then it just, I feel like when I look back on the SLA journey now, the entire six years felt very like I was just chasing this like ball that just kept growing.

11:28Right. And the growth wasn't planned ever. And so it was just kind of like trying to keep up with it all. It's just, yeah. And I think also the thing as well with SLA is we went viral so many times without planning to. And I think that growth as well caused problems because that's kind of when the manufacturer issues came in. And that's obviously like led to the downturn of SLA was the manufacturer issues. So I think had we maybe not had all those viral moments in these like huge kind of like unexpected quick growths, it might be a different story. And it's so funny you say that because I reckon anyone listening to this who has a business, the one thing they want right now is for one of their products to go viral.

12:10Like one of their products to go viral and take off. And like, don't get me wrong, it is, it's a luxury. like it's a privilege to have it happen and it's amazing at the same time if you build a business and I had to restructure my entire business and nearly like so nearly lost it in the process like weeks upon weeks upon weeks of being you know not knowing if we were going to make payroll and so much of that was because you're building it on a business where actually it's not a steady well-built well-structured yeah the foundations just yeah are not there exactly like maybe it's meant to go slower like if if things are going slower for you at the moment I almost think it's a good lesson in like why is this going slower like what is it teaching you that you need to be slower to learn well so that you don't run before you can walk and I think there was so much of that that like I wish I'd learned yeah but I think that's a really good point because the amount of people that will have looked at your stuff when it was going viral and being like oh my god like what do I need to do to get that type of traction at the moment and of course it's the privilege but at the same time grass isn't always greener no and i think you know the whole like 10 years to overnight success i think that is actually something that founders and business owners and whatever really whatever business it is you kind of maybe want to hang on to more and that's what i think is hard at the moment because i think social media has created this like pressure from for no reason because you see these success stories and you see these like overnight successes and that does happen for some people but actually I think the long game and having a sustainable growth and like really understanding like where you're taking your business and why it's growing and your plans for the growth is actually so valuable and I think if I was to start another business now I would want everything to go very slowly so I think there's nothing like if whoever like is watching or listening to this is feeling like their business feels like everything is going a bit slower as long as there's success behind that sort of steady pace I think that's a great thing yeah because it's controlled right and you're you're in control of it you know and I just think because feeling out of control running a business is horrible it's horrible so let's get into it yeah you obviously you made the decision to close SLA earlier this year as far as you can can you tell us what happened?

14:34Yeah, so I mean, it was probably like a year in the making. And this was why the last year was so hard, because literally everything was happening at once. Like, I had the breakup and the business literally side by side. Whether, you know, being in that breakup headspace made it worse as well, because obviously, mentally, I was dealing with that also dealing with my business starting to fail. And it was like, I don't know if my, I was off my game as well. But I mean, whatever it was, it happened the way that it happened. But unfortunately, so So what really happened was we had a manufacturer that we'd been working with for almost a year.

15:07So it's not like they were new. And we placed probably one of our biggest orders for a restock of our core collection. So all of our bestsellers, when I mean all of our bestsellers, I mean literally everything. So everything that makes the business money was was reordered. And because it was a reorder, and this is something that actually I've learned massively from when the stock arrived into the warehouse, we just put it online because we've worked with them before they've made this this stuff before i didn't think that i needed to check the stock lesson number one i will always check any stock now because i'd never go through again the product went online it only took probably like a couple of days for us to realize there was an issue because we started having customer emails complaining about you know it was as wild as like we'd had like something with black diamond it was black and it was supposed to have black diamantes and it had, like, red diamantes on it.

15:59Right. You know, like, everything that was wrong with it was wrong with it. We had fabric that was 30 grams lighter than the approved fabric and also a completely different composition. I actually got in an argument with the manufacturer at the start and was like, I know this is different. They were lying literally the whole time, so I sent the fabric to a fabric lab to get it tested because I was like, I know I'm so right about this. Yeah. So I was literally like, you know, it's giving, like, girl... That would be real detective. I've had it before where I've literally been like, this one's slimy up.

16:28Exactly. It doesn't have the same feel. I was like, this is a different fabric. So I literally sent it off and it was a different composition, a different way, everything. But even having that level of like proof, we still didn't have a leg to stand on. We had like Paloma blazers, which was the glitter blazer that we did, that was literally measuring like six to seven centimetres out of spec. Wow. Like it was shocking how bad this production was. but the issue that we had was it went online and so they legally it was like we were selling the product so it that's what caused the sort of like issue so anyway obviously as soon as we realized there was an issue we refunded any customers that had the problem it took all of the stock offline because that was my instant reaction was like I need to take everything off the website because it's all wrong but obviously the problem which I didn't realize but also I was I wasn't going to jeopardize the brand name so i was kind of left with no choice is then cash flow just completely stopped because we took all of our best sellers everything that made us money had to come off the website but i also wasn't about to sell products that was that bad to my customers so it was kind of like it was a lose-lose it was a rock and a hard place because also what could have happened if you hadn't had such integrity and be like i wouldn't want to do this even from a business perspective those customers who might have converted for the first time you know the lifetime value of the customer is usually a few orders exactly if they're not coming back that's it was almost like no matter which way i was going to turn with it right it was going to fail right so the other problem we had obviously all that manufactured stuff and this went on for like eight months we didn't have our best sellers back on the website until this was happening in like february march we didn't get any of our best sellers back on the website until literally like september and during that time obviously you can imagine it was a nightmare because there was just no money there was no money for anything but also it was like the perfect storm because I also had a fractional CFO who obviously like it's really sad in business and I think this happens a lot where you bring people in that you believe are a hire to help you and actually just completely jeopardize the business we had and actually my story especially with fractional CFOs or fractional people that come in is not unique because they come in almost like they just want the paycheck they're not really invested in the business because they work like one two days a week and this is quite like technical for people that maybe don't understand the fashion business but I'm going to say it for people that do so basically you know like you're open to buy so he got hold of this which apparently as well after speaking to so many people like your merchandiser should be the only people that are looking at the otb because it's like that's their job so he basically decided that instead of us ordering like 3 000 units of something he had us ordering 200 units right it's like overnight and i at the time didn't think anything of it because you when someone who is someone who's coming to do like the finance stuff is telling you that this is what we're going to do because it's going to help the business you take his bible you're like cool i'm not the finance person self-awareness to know that like this isn't your role exactly And I was like, trust it.

19:40I do put a lot of trust in people who work for me because up until that point had actually been fine. Not only did it reduce the units, but our stock cover went from literally like 18 to like 20 weeks all the way down to 12 weeks, which I now looking back on it. Our production takes longer than 12 weeks to be made. So we had like a Zara like lead. It was wild. So it's like, why did we have stock cover that didn't even cover the amount of time it takes for our product to even reach us? Yeah, especially for bestsellers. For bestsellers. And so it was like, and then so obviously we had all the nightmare going on with the stock, but then any new stuff that came in, which people loved, sold out because we had 200 units of it.

20:23So then it was like we had literally nothing to sell because it was like the CFOs told us, oh, reduce your units, reduce your cover. But then we've had the shitstorm of the manufacturer happen at the same time. So, okay, I know the CFO potentially didn't see the shitstorm of the manufacturer stuff, but had we had the protection of other stock, we might be in a different position. It was a perfect storm, for sure. So it really was like, you know, I completely agree that there are certain things that I definitely could have done differently. And I'm not an innocent party in the breakdown of the business at all.

20:58but I do feel like a lot of it was completely out of my control. It was outsider influences. And that's what I think makes it so sad because when I was solely running it before I bought in a seat, because I very much am like high risk, high reward. That's how I just live life. And I was always like, yeah, this is great. Order like 5 ,000 years of, do 9 ,000 of that. It's amazing. And actually when I was doing that, we were so successful. And it was like someone came in and was like, calm yourself down. Let's be more sensible. and it completely fucked out. The market's uncertain. Revenue's tied and hiring on hold.

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22:13We may need to change that jingle. Prices and participation may vary. At Capella University, learning online doesn't mean learning alone. You'll get support from people who care about your success. Like your enrollment specialist who gets to know you and the goals you'd like to achieve. You'll also get a designated academic coach who's with you throughout your entire program. Plus, career coaches are available to help you navigate your professional goals. A different future is closer than you think with Capella University. Learn more at capella.edu. you oh it's so tough and i it's such a it's a story that i've heard so many times sadly like as in i don't like oh yeah that's special like as in but like the amount of times i have heard of like even recently there are businesses that are doing incredibly incredibly well where i've had a conversation with the founder and it's been like oh yeah well someone came in and i brought them in because that's not my strength and then it was something that they did again often interim people and often female founders who are very aware of their own very self-aware in terms of their own strengths and weaknesses and have had people come in who have essentially fucked like royally fucked so many areas of the business and I it's so so shit and I also just think that like what it's so tough because when you I'm sure you've gone back over this so many times being like how would I have avoided this and how should I have done this and like even if this came in how could I have stopped this happening and I also just think that like in those moments you were trying to make the best decision for the business yeah by bringing a more expensive person in by saying do you know what maybe I am a bit trigger happy on these things so I'm going to bring this person in and at the end of the day you have such a superpower in knowing your customer knowing the social media landscape knowing how things trend all of this that you actually probably had a particular superpower beyond even the best merchandisers and CFOs in terms of knowing do you know what I'm going to be able to make that one product go viral yeah and that was probably what made the business do so well for so long because not just making it viral but making it profit from being viral is a whole different thing like the amount of businesses you'll see that go viral for something and they can't get that product in within nine months yeah is like it's a real strength to be able to not just make something viral but be able to make yourself profit from that and that was something that you guys were so good at so it's such a shame for something else and you trying to make the right decision and trying to bring like quote-unquote grown-ups in which I've seen happen everywhere, that actually your gut instinct was right.

25:01Like your gut instinct would have been right. Because that was the thing. I had so many older people. Because when you are a young founder, right, you probably get this all the time, people do just assume that you don't know what you're doing. And so it was like the outsider influences were like, it was like, I think my bookkeeper, like the accountant firm that we use was like, I think you should bring in a CFO. and it was kind of like, do you just want a CFO because you want to make your life easier because obviously they're going to have the financial stuff done for you? Because kind of when I look back on it now, I'm like, we didn't really need one.

25:35Right, we were doing fine. We were actually fine. Like, we were fine. And obviously, like, fractional CFOs, like, literally was six and a half grand a month salary. And it's, like, it's not cheap. And it was interesting as well because as soon as the business started to fail, he left. Of course. Yeah. Because he knew he wasn't going to get paid. And it was like, almost like he just caused a storm and was like, I'm out. It was wild. So then that was also what was so horrible was that then I was dealing with probably one of the most intense financial situations that I've ever been in and not having a clue what I'm doing.

26:18So when did that happen? Like, when did he leave? So he left in about, I think it was like, was it like June, July, around there? And that's when, so, you know, me and my, we were my right-hand man at SLA at the time. Like, we did do the best that we could to, like, keep it going. But I think had we had someone who had a real eye for, like, forecast, we would have, I would have liquidated the business there and then. Right. Because I think we kept thinking we could get ourselves out of it. but I think had we actually really had someone come in and look at the financials, they would have been like, you physically cannot get yourself out of this.

27:00Right. So you kept, because like the debt was piling up, you know, like we were, I had to pay my employees salaries from my personal bank account, like four times because, and that, but that was, that was what, that was the kind of founder I was. I was like, I will not let the people, because the people that work for me were like family, you know? And that's the one thing, like, even now, like it does matter. Like the thing that makes me sad when I talk about the closure of SLA is the people that it affected, like the people that work for me, because that was why I kept it going for as long as I did, because I didn't want people to lose their jobs.

27:33I didn't want customers to not get refunds. I literally put myself into personal debt to keep the business going to not let people down. Yeah, really, because actually it should have the business should have been liquidated in probably May last year. I reckon. And so from that point, because obviously you're having significant trouble around this time last year, and then, you know, you're hitting a point where you're starting to have to pay people from your own personal background, which I also think like knowing what payroll costs is a lot of money. What happened from there? Like you were obviously, you obviously kept fighting until the end of last year I'd assume yeah I kept going I think my the thing I really realized was like my mental health was horrendous like I I didn't eat I didn't sleep I lost so much weight I just was so unhappy because I was just I felt like I everything I was building was just crumbling and I didn't know what I was doing I didn't have the support system that I was used to having for eight years, which was obviously my ex.

28:49He wasn't there. So I would come home. I'd sit on my sofa alone, like with all these like this shit going on, just feeling like the biggest failure. And like that is heavy. That's a lot to deal with when you can't even because obviously I have friends I can talk to. But you know what it's like unless you own your business and have to pay payroll. No one will understand the pressures of having to pay salaries at the end of the month. and that was when it was really hard for me when we would have months where I was literally like I'm not I was I will do whatever I have to do to pay these salaries even if the business can't do it like I will make sure that they get paid because I just just couldn't but looking back on it now I'm like the fact that the business couldn't pay the salaries was probably the biggest sign to be like you should have liquidated it you know yeah of course but it just I don't You know, I just felt like it was SLA was everything to me.

29:43I wasn't just going to give up on it. And I kept fighting. And the problem is I kept bringing in like different people who were like offering help. And to be fair, everyone that I did have so many amazing like outsider people that tried to help and do things. But I think almost having that noise maybe helped it helped. It's probably not the right word, probably kept it going for longer than it should have. So why did you keep pushing past that point? I can understand it. I think for us, the problem that I really had, which I think was why I kept it going, was Q4 was notoriously our best time. So I kept thinking if we can just get to Q4, we'll be fine.

30:23We can turn it around. But it was just constantly like the battles that just kept coming up and like the money chases, like the debt collectors that started chasing. Like, and that is so intense when you've got like people constantly ringing because you owe everyone money. And we were obviously still in this legal battle with the manufacturer, which was costing me money personally and the business. And then, yeah, we got to like, I think it was literally two weeks before Christmas. One of the creditors was like, you need to pay us the 50 grand within two weeks or we're going to come for you. So that was like, I know it's heavy before Christmas as well.

30:59You know, when you're just a bit like, I was just dealing. like this was this was constant I can't begin to tell you the amount of times where it was like like life just wasn't fun you know you know when everything was so intense I was just like so it got to January and I think it was literally I remember my manager slash best friend Anthony he was just like you are a shell of a human like I am genuinely so worried for you my mum was literally sleeping at my house at this point she was like I don't want to leave you on your own because I was just so just unwell basically and he was like you have to make a decision as to what you're doing here and I just literally like I remember I just woke up the next morning and I was just like I'm done I'm out I just couldn't physically take it anymore because it was just so intense I'm not surprised and like I don't I know first of all you're such a good person you can tell that you have such a good heart and I think that you that really comes out in those really tough times because you you could have shut it down way earlier and not only did you want to keep that going for you know what you'd built and what you put money into and what you'd you know what you'd seen as your future same with any other thing like same with us talking about the breakup last year like yeah it made you're like it made sense for you to fight for that yeah not only that but also people's livelihoods i literally totally totally understand it and i think that listening to you talk about it I think it's so unfortunate and I'm sure everyone listening to this feels the exact same to me in that I literally want to like fight the manufacturers like I literally want to I'm like fucking baring my teeth like it's it's so I hope they feel shit and it's so funny because they were one of the people that were like chasing their money of course they were and I was just like and also in in a really weird way they were probably the only people because obviously when you put your business into liquidation obviously all your creditors like get notified that basically they're not gonna get paid and they were they were probably the only ones that i was like can't wait for you to get that letter right to be like there's no money so you're not getting paid and you know it was also because they like fashion can be a slimy business and a lot of the time it's not but a lot of the time it really is and you just know as well that like they were cutting corners they were doing that because they were doing yeah and they knew as well i have no doubt they knew that you were what they consider to be a less experienced founder and that they probably saw things that you didn't have in your contracts yeah like they probably saw i don't even had a contract with them right but like that's the thing like as in there are so many things that you you as someone with a good heart and like in good faith with other people would never do to them and then you go out into this wild west and they first of all they should have got you to do a contract because that protects them as well the only reason they would have not done that is to violate yeah it's a bold thing for me to say but i like stand by it yeah because you put contracts in to protect both parties and them not doing that the person it benefits is them yeah because they know they know what they've got on their side and like that is so i have no doubt that everyone listening to this is like that is so fucking unfair and like what's happened to you over the past few years is so fucking unfair.

34:20Like, you know, when you see things happen to people and you're like, yeah, why do bad things happen to good people? I'm like, what's that TikTok where it's like, if I have any more character development, my character is going to turn into a villain. Like I'm done, I'm out. We're currently at like villain origin stories. So like if we could perhaps not. Yeah, yeah, literally like, when did I sign up for the war? Yeah, exactly. Like I wanted the soft girl package. I don't know, yeah. but like it's so I'm so sorry that that happened to you last year and like there's obviously like part of me that that knows and feels what you went through because I nearly had a business in liquidation but like even at that point I remember like I remember one time like walking around the park and this was at a point I'd forced myself out the house and I'd been like you just have like you have to leave yeah you have to get up from your computer and I just remember walking around and being like what's the point yeah like as in literally like I just remember like the depths it takes you to I just remember just like walking around and just being like but this is what I was doing and like this is what I wanted to do and I just remember that yeah and like so I know like I know the depths that takes you to yeah and needing to both have that mental space where you're trying to basically deal with the second enormous heart break and grief of the year and then also fix it at the same time yeah must have just sent you into absolute overdrive it's like pouring from an empty cup but like times a million because you also don't know how to fix it and you're also getting yourself into more debt whilst doing that I just, at the end of it all, I'm so sorry it happened to you, but I'm glad you made the decision you did.

36:08Yeah. When you did. Yeah. Because I, I don't know, how do you feel looking back on that decision? Because I can imagine it's just, it's so strange looking back from such a... Yeah. I feel, in a way, I think making the decision, well, I mean, it had to be made. I didn't have a choice, basically. I was so like, because I think that's the thing. I felt so beaten down by the end of it, because it was just constant, like, no's. you were up against everything that it just there was I think that I am such a like we'll see it through to the end kind of person so for me to fully make that decision it it was very clear that that was it there was no there was nothing else I could have done it was like I have to just hold up my hands and go I'm out yeah and also thinking about it you never would have known for example if you shut the business in May last year you could have been sitting here in September remember being like I never should have done that like that wasn't me I am a fighter like I am the person I'm gonna see it through to the end until I'm in a pickle yeah and like that is how I'm gonna do it and like I it's clear that you did this with such like you at least kept you and who you are and after the point where you had external influences who didn't lead this business to a good place you then were able to take that back internally and be like we're doing this my way this is how I'm gonna try and fix it and if it doesn't work it doesn't work but at least I knew I fought for it.

37:28Do you think that how public your business had been influenced you trying to fight for it for longer? It definitely, definitely did. I think as well, like I fought for it for so long as well, because no one will believe in your business the way that the founder of the business believes in it. That's a given, right? So I had like, obviously, I did have people that would be like, I think, you know, you should kind of do this. But I was sitting there going like, SLA cannot go because I think the problem was I would look back on it and I was like it was successful it saw year on year growth it was literally like the year just what two months before it had like the manufacturing stuff happened we'd made our first like decent profit we did like 250 grand in profit our EBITDA was up like it was on paper amazing yeah so I just because it was crazy to me how quickly it went wrong and that's what I think was probably the thing that shocked me the most was how fast it can fail because it was like we were literally successful so successful and then it was almost like overnight it just failed so I think that was the other reason why I kept going for so long because I was like SLA shouldn't go because it should and it was interesting because it's funny how once I announced that it was going suddenly I had all these investors coming out of the woodwork going I would have invested in this I believed in it I saw the success and I was like where were you six months ago but obviously they wouldn't have known because I wasn't talking about it but it was a little bit like oh I do think there was an element that actually it probably could have been saved but I was so mentally exhausted that I had made my peace with the fact that it was going but I think I definitely also as you say I kept it going because the fear of saying I've lost my business was horrible because no one, I don't know anyone who has publicly put their business into liquidation.

39:24And like, everyone was always like, oh, you're so successful with SLA. And like, obviously, again, it was a massive ego thing as well. I didn't want to be, having just gone through this breakup publicly online, I was like, oh my God, now I'm going to be the poster girl for failing in business, you know? And And obviously when I was in a really negative headspace as well, I was just like, I am just literally a failure because it was like you can't go through all of that in a year and not feel something. Now I'm a bit like, thank God it's all happened in a sense, because like the breakup was the best thing that ever happened to me.

39:58And like, thank God that happened. And so in a weird way, like the breakup has made the business easier because I'm like, I know the way I feel about the breakup will be how I feel about the business. And it's kind of like, because everything that you lose is, you lose it for a reason. Right. You know? You need to do it. You literally, and that's what I am such a believer in now, is that when something leaves you, it's because it wasn't meant to be. And whether it's a person, a business, whatever it is, I can't begin to tell you the level of like, I used to be such a control freak. And that control freak aspect of me has completely disappeared.

40:35Because I'm like, what will be, will be. By force. Literally. Like, I understand that now more than anyone. I'm like, you can't control anything. You literally can't control anything. All you can do is control how you react to what's happening in life. So I think actually learning that and just letting go has been the best thing that's come out of all of this. Like, I feel like I am so laid back now I'm horizontal, which I love. I'm literally like, nothing almost fazes me anymore. I'm just like, cool. It's crazy how life sometimes teaches you such a violent lesson. Violent. You're like, could you not have, like...

41:09But the funny thing is, because, like, I always feel this about my things, it's like, oh, life actually did tap me on the shoulder a few times and I just would not listen. Well, it's like the Saturn return thing. My Saturn return was literally I got gut-punched by the universe. Because I think up until, you know, even the relationship, I was, like, thinking that it was a great relationship. It wasn't. The business, it was successful, but it was so stressful. And it's almost like the universe was just like, you need to sort your shit out. you know? Yeah. And it kind of, I don't know, I'm still obviously really sad and sorry for you that you had, you had to go through that.

41:45But at the same time, I do also think that there was this aspect of it where it's kind of like, you clearly needed this big, like skin shedding, like this big, like new era, like moving on to the next thing. It was so intertwined with the past era of your life, like the past season of your life was very much dictated by, you know, being, thinking one thing of your life and thinking it had to look like one thing and had to be one thing and I think that actually being shown so clearly not only does it not have to look like that yeah but actually what you thought was success in this direction being with the wrong person having a business that actually drove you insane yeah all the time just because that looks like success in labels it was not actually success from how you were feeling and actually seeing that from a few months down the line is very helpful and validating.

42:34Yeah, yeah. I feel like I, it's mental to me now how much I live by the motto of like, I care so much more how my life feels than how it looks. And I think when you've grown up with a job in social media, especially when you're young, when you're young, you want everything to look like, look at my car, look at this, It's all very like showy offy, you know, and I think that is just the nature of social media. Now I'm like, I literally couldn't care less what my life looks like online. I'm like, as long as I feel like I'm having a great time, that's literally all I care about. So when you go through such hard times, when you suddenly feel a sense of peace, you're like, I just protect it.

43:17Yeah. And you're right, actually, because I think that sometimes probably when my life has looked the best, it's actually felt the worst. Yeah, 100%. And I think that we're so used to fighting for what is perceived to be successful or what is perceived to be like the end goal or what is perceived to be like this lifestyle that you're meant to be living. And at the same time, it's obviously the wrong metric because it's like, you know, you're living it for you and you're doing that so that you can feel better about yourself. So if you don't feel better about yourself, like how about we just don't do that?

43:46Like we live a different type of life. but it's so it is so true and I think it is such a lesson in like how you see other people online and how you perceive them and how you think about them and how you compare yourselves to them because yeah you're right like so many of us are fighting for this version of success that we're told is going to look a certain way and not even taking two seconds to ask ourselves do I like this version of success like I've been fighting for fucking years doing more and more and more and like more things and like trying to be more impressive and all of this and it's like actually what's made me happy is like yeah don't get me wrong I fucking love building things and like I love having a good idea and pursuing it those aren't the best times though no like those aren't the best times and like the like shit storm of stress and like 100 miles per hour and feeling like you're constantly being beaten while you're down yeah like is that success yeah you might tell tell me I look successful but like I don't know six months ago when I literally like couldn't get out of bed like just is that success yeah and it's so it's funny I can imagine you've you've got a lot of clarity on that now 100 % and I think I feel like I felt like having a business was important to make me feel successful but actually I feel more successful in a really weird way now that I don't have it.

45:08I can't. It's just, I think it's because it just has changed so much about how I look at success. And also just the way that I look at life. I'm like, I just want, I just want like calmness. Yeah. You know? And I don't think you get that with Ryan. I mean, don't get me wrong. She'll be back. I'm sure I'll do something again, but I won't be doing it on my own. I tell you that much for free. Anyone who wants to start a business with me, come just let me know because I, I don't want to do it on my own. I think there's such strength in, you know, joining forces with someone where they've got what you don't have.

45:42And I think now I think I'm going to be the first person to admit that, like, I can't run a business from like the business head side of things because it's not my it's just not my expertise. So I want if I did something again, I'd want to be like, I'm going to do this. Someone can do that and we'll create something amazing. But like, I can't. Right. I just don't physically think I could do it on my own again. The only caveat I would say to that is I do think you will always know the customer better than anyone else. Because I think that when you, one thing that I didn't realise was one of my superpowers, and again, like trusted people who I shouldn't have trusted, was based on the fact that when you build your own audience, you build that in the same way as you're building a customer base.

46:21You build them based, you know their likes, you know their dislikes, you know what gets them riled up, you know what doesn't, like all of this. and I still thought that people who were like customer experts and marketing experts would know better than me and actually that it's it's not the case because I built that audience step by step like brick by brick so I know that better and so do you and I think that that's something that all founders especially when you're quite self-aware and like can be maybe a little bit too humble are often like no you know this better because you know the science behind it and actually it's like no no I promise you I can predict that yeah I think that's why the entrepreneur in me is like I will do something I know you'll do something because SLA was a success you know I did create something that was worth millions and it was really successful so it's like you can't you can't just put that to bed but I think it's like I'm almost just like you know when you just feel like you've been through like a storm and you come out the other side you're like I'm just gonna chill here for a bit as you should honestly as you should it's the same as like a break up if you had like a rebound business right now I'd be like honestly let's have a little sleep that was literally what it'd be like it would literally be a rebound business and no one needs that yeah yeah and so what have the past few months looked like for you like creatively in terms of business in terms of just living your life I feel like I have had the best couple of months like even just like the last two months I feel like I'm slowly but surely getting back to like myself but when i say that i feel like that there is a version of me now that's completely new of course it's almost like you know that taylor swift song where it's like taylor can't come to the phone right now because she's dead i feel like it's like set that she heard that about you the old sarah is dead like she she's not available anymore because i have changed so much but i love this version of me now she's so much better than the old version can i say this is weird for me to say but I think that you know okay so you obviously had this breakup last year and you could have it's been a year yeah so you could be I don't know with with someone and it could be like a long long-term thing or whatever like already and you could be the same person you were last year but just with these learnings from a breakup yeah I actually think the fact that you had this breakup and then had the business like the business going into liquidation and then you also have changed must have changed so much as a person in those times yeah both of those things like i hate to say maybe this had to happen because i don't think it should have happened to you but i also think that like you are not just the person that you needed to be in business and that has changed entirely but also the person you needed to be in terms of like being ready for whatever your next relationship might look like and whatever might like someone might have stepped in within that like six months and it might just not been right because actually it's not it's not who you are destined to be whereas now you've actually gone through so much that's made you this new version of yourself yeah it's like if you put you back now in your previous relationship it wouldn't fit at all because you're literally not even the same like honestly if i bumped into my ex right now he'd be like who are you right i'd be like yeah you literally don't know me weird because i'm so different but i think and actually that's what's quite interesting is that the other thing as well because obviously the business stuff was going on like i didn't date I didn't do anything.

49:36So like, I literally just was like, alone, which I think helped because I had like a full year where I was just on my own. And actually, I think that was a good thing. Because I just literally like, my friends were like, you're gonna start dating. And I was like, I can't even get myself out of bed, let alone like deal with someone's like son right now. Do you know what I mean? Like, because life is a lot easier when someone's son's not stressing you out. Right? Yeah, no, that is so true. I feel like you've unfortunately had to go through like like a fast track kind of like rebirth. Yeah. But at least it was fast tracked.

50:07It could have been that you had the breakup and then like two years get back on your feet and then you were like knocked down again. That's literally what my mum said to me. She was like, in a really weird way, you've kind of got to be grateful that it's all happened in the space of a year. Because as you say, imagine if I'd kind of gotten over the breakup and starting to feel amazing and then lost the business, it would have been worse. And also imagine if the breakup hadn't happened and you would have gone through this, you might have been like, actually I would put money on the fact that you would have been such a different and stronger and more kind of like understanding, empathetic, robust like person that would never have like, it wouldn't have even made sense in that relationship.

50:43No, well, I think also, I was laughing with my friends about this being like, even if I didn't go through the breakup last year, this would have broken up the relationship. There's no way I could have gone through what I went through with the business with my ex. He would have been as useful as a chocolate fire guard. I we would have been like it would have been we literally no matter which way round it went everything was going to end do you know what I mean yeah so it's quite funny so just rip off the bandaid you're like my life lesson is have all of your big issues in one year in one go just have one year where you set it aside and you say this is my shit storm year and I'm going to pull the rug out from under myself in like seven different directions because there's also nothing that humbles you as much of going through that stuff all at the same time and it's like I was I've always been like a very friendly person but I can't describe how it's just made me like soft now because I've been so humbled by everything that I but I love how it has softened me because I'm so I'm so much more emotional now I really talk about my feelings with my friends I never used to do that because obviously when you're in the lowest of low you have to talk about your feelings right whereas before that someone would go how are you even if I was having a bad day I'd be like I'm fine how are you but now I'm like let me tell you yeah and I like unpack everything do you know what I mean which which I love.

51:57Yeah, you've been through a real, it's your chrysalis year. Unfortunately, the chrysalis was a little bumpy. It fell off the tree. Yeah. But here she is. She's a butterfly. Here she is. I know, exactly. Honestly. And I just love, and also I love it that it's happened as I've turned 30 as well. So it's like this new decade. Yes. And like, I'm hoping that like now just, I'm ready for just good things to come into my life. I see it for you. Please. You are now the person that for some reason the universe needed you to be. And for some reason it just like slapped you sideways to get you there. Yeah, it really did.

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53:03And you spoke on YouTube when you kind of talked about the business going into liquidation. You spoke about how you hadn't known before how expensive going into liquidation was. I would love to speak about that a little bit because as we talked about when obviously we asked you to come back on the podcast, none of this is talked about anywhere near enough and people aren't open and honest. and you, if anything, are open and honest. I'm too honest. So I would love to hear that from you because I think that it is important. Like it's important to know these things. Especially because if anyone is listening to this and their business is going through liquidation, like I would have loved, all I wanted at that time was someone to be like, this is what's going to happen.

53:41Yeah. And actually like going into liquidation seems really scary, but the liquidation lawyers do everything. So you just basically have to have a conversation with them and say, this is what's going on. I feel like I need to put my business into liquidation. And they go, cool, we will take it from here. And I think that was the thing that was so scary for me. It was the unknown because I thought, like, is it going to be this, like, complete, like, I don't know. I just didn't know what to expect. But it was so easy that I was almost like, oh, okay. And so but the only thing was is the cost of it.

54:10It was literally like we were originally quoted, like, six grand just to go into liquidation. But then if you want to go into administration, it's 25 grand, which is crazy. but then because we had obviously like customers that owed refunds and they have to deal with like a lot of creditors it then went up to 12 grand so i had to pay 12 grand just to go into liquidation which is comical when you literally go to someone we have no money and they're like cool it's gonna cost you 12 grand and i was literally me and my mum were sat on this call and i just like grabbed her leg because i was just like where is this money coming and again i then had to pay for it personally and it was just like another thing where i was just like oh my god what happens if you can't pay you go into bankruptcy i assume i guess i don't think that i don't know and this was the thing that was so funny because i literally said this to the lawyer it was just kind of like what do we do if people can't pay and he just kind of like laughed and didn't really answer it i was a bit like i'm assuming you go into bankruptcy i mean you're gonna have a payment plan or like there's something but he but the problem is like the lawyers won't take you on to liquidate your business unless you pay them so you have to pay like an upfront part of that for them to do the process so i literally don't know what happens if you can't pay well i'd assume um i'd assume based on the fact that if you didn't go into liquidation and you weren't paying people then they could start suing you i just yes it's always cheaper to be like no we're going to go into liquidation so that we formally don't need to pay you anymore because we can't pay any of our creditors um but that is quite so it's almost like even just something to know that like if you're thinking about going into liquidation, you almost need to be prepared to go into liquidation.

55:46Right. It's almost like you need the money to liquidate. But I must say, the process of going into liquidation has been so much better than I thought. Okay. Because it is, it's like once, because once the lawyers take over, any of your creditors legally can't speak to you, but also a bit awkward in the sense that you also can't speak to them. And that was the thing that was really hard because I obviously announced it online and the thing I was so afraid of was the fact that I knew that we owed customers refunds but it's when you have a business that's like a big fashion business that's inevitable like you know when people like Miss Guided went into liquidation the amount of customers that were owed refunds people that owed money it just happens and I tried everything within my power to make sure that that didn't happen and that's why I think I as I said I kept the business going for as long as I did because I didn't want people to be out of pocket but they then obviously I had loads of people coming at me online for like you know being like you've stolen my money like how fucking dare you it was like so aggressive and the worst thing was is I couldn't even reply to them because legally I can't so it was like I wanted to like fight my corner or like even just apologize but you you can't like because they are a creditor and you can't speak to them so there's just like legalities around the whole thing where you're like dealing with it mentally you're dealing with the fact that you've lost your business there's so much and then you and then also what I then had to deal with was obviously this like barrage of like online hate as well was there a lot of online hate there was a lot in the sense I mean there wasn't a lot I suppose it's like you know like with anything when there's negativity it's louder than the positivity and I think obviously I was in such a fragile state and I think when you know that you personally put yourself into debt to keep the business going to avoid customers.

57:34Like, you're just a bit like, you have no idea how hard I tried to make this not happen. Yeah, both of us would rather this happen. Yeah, and that was the thing, like... I promise you. The thing I think I wanted to almost get across is it's like, I get... I didn't want anyone to be out of pocket, but, like, I lost everything. I lost my business. I spent six years building, you know? Yeah. And I, like, you know, I know it's hard when people are owed money, but it's hard when you literally lose everything as well so yeah no I can't imagine what that must have been like to go through and also because it's so clear that you didn't want that to happen no and it's not like I was actually stealing people's money exactly exactly and I think also people online couldn't like I totally understand the frustration of buying something and wanting to return it and then realizing you can't and all of this I completely completely understand And I also think that people online can be very, lose all empathy pretty quickly.

58:34And I think that must have been very hard to go through when on top of kind of explaining to people that something you started has, is now not there anymore. And in your eyes, it's failed. And it's not what you wanted it to be in all of this. at the same time just taking this like barrage of like you're also a terrible person because I can't return my blazer is not what you need. This is why as I say I'm like I'm done now like we can't go through anything else. Yeah yeah she's out. And that week where you put it up yeah on Instagram what was that like because I can imagine it was relieving. Yeah.

59:17And traumatic at the same time. It was, to be honest, I say, obviously, I hate that when you talk about the negativity and not the positivity, I have never experienced so much support. It was unbelievable. Like, there was so many people just like, it was just, I was overwhelmed with support and people just, I don't know, I just didn't expect people to take it so well. Not that I thought people were going to be like, her, lol, you failed. But it was just so amazing, you know, when you see your community come together and like support you, even in something that feels like a failure. It was a lot, I think, as well, because obviously it was kind of like I had the same messages from people that maybe had messaged me when I'd gone through the breakup.

1:00:00So it felt like it was bringing up a little bit of like emotional trauma again from like having to, I don't know, because people, a lot of people were meshing. and I know they wouldn't have meant this in a horrible way, but it was like, oh, my God, like, I can't believe that you've dealt with a breakup and now you've done this. And it was like, but I was like, really, I am. I'm good. Like, I am good. I promise I'm fine. And I think actually announcing it was the relief I needed. Yeah. And was there anything about the kind of online perception or perception of friends that maybe didn't know, like hadn't been as close to you, that kind of hadn't known what you were going through?

1:00:34Was there anything that surprised you? I think there was a lot of shocked people because I don't think anyone knew. Because obviously, why would they? And that's what I think actually, I think is a really important takeaway from all of this is that people could have come to my Instagram. Yes, I'd gone through a breakup, but people could have come to my Instagram for the entire of last year and had not a bloody clue what I was going through. And it's the perfect example of like, you can make your life online look like whatever you want it to look like. And you can be going through so much in the background.

1:00:59So I think there was a lot, I had a lot of just people being like, I cannot believe SLA's gone. Yeah. I think it was shock more than anything. Yeah. I mean, I definitely was very shocked. And I'm the type, you know, I know what can happen behind the scenes. So, like, I know how you probably couldn't shock me with much when it comes to that. But, yeah, it was a building a growing, profitable fashion business is not something that even most fashion business owners do. Like, you just getting profitable in fashion is extremely hard. Doing that while growing, extremely hard. So like what you did was, regardless of anything else, such an impressive feat.

1:01:40And I think that that to me, that was why it kind of set me back. I was like, oh, my God. I think I even said I think I was like having breakfast. It was even like, oh, my God. I hope at least that people's empathy a little bit, even though some people's might not have been, was able to like actually shine through. A hundred percent. Like massively. Yeah. and obviously we've spoken about the fact that then two years and actually kind of one year because it happened really within one year you've had these huge huge life changes and huge life changes that have had a big impact on not just how you live your life day to day but also kind of your identity I can imagine yeah how has what you've just been through changed how you see yourself and your kind of self-worth and self-identity?

1:02:32I feel like I've massively I think the number one takeaway that I've taken from it is like the level of resilience I have within myself and like how strong I am and I think actually I love that I'm now like I feel like I can actually take on anything at this point which I love I don't want to yeah that's not an invitation but I feel like I didn't I've always been a very strong person and even my mum said she was like honestly she's like if there was anyone in in my life that I know that could have put up with what you've put up with it was you because you have always been like a tough cookie from like a young age mum was like I didn't want you to go through this but like my sister if she'd gone through this she'd be in a mental asylum do you know I mean I mean I'm close but I'm not quite there um but I think so I feel like I've learned I'm really strong I also feel like priorities have changed As I said, like I care so much more now about just like creating a life that feels amazing.

1:03:28I don't care what it looks like online. I also would love to be successful again with a business, but I'm not looking for a multimillion pound empire. I just actually would love something that's quite comfortable. It's really weird. It's just completely changed my perception on like success, which I'm not mad about either. I'm just kind of like, yeah, I don't know. And also it's been really, I've always done this anyway, but it's also, I think the number one thing and the biggest takeaway is always diversify your income streams. Always. Even if you own a business or not, I cannot say how important that is.

1:04:02Like luckily for me, which I think blows people's minds when I say this, but I didn't pay myself a salary. So when I lost SLA, I didn't actually lose any income because I never once paid myself a salary from SLA. So for me, I think that was also kind of why it was a bit easier to give up the business. but I feel like losing the business and having to deal with all the financial repercussions and paying things and knowing that I needed to have all this money to do that. I think it's given me a real like financial, like bit of a kick in the head kind of thing to be like, thank God you were financially able to deal with this, but it's making me also realize the importance of like just financial freedom and financial stability, I think.

1:04:41Yeah. As well. And for anyone listening to this, whose life might be currently being turned upside down, what would you tell them? I would say control what you can control, but you have to, I think the number one thing that you need to focus on is understanding how it's affecting your mental health. Because I think I, when you're going through stuff, when it's so like takes a toll on your body and your health and everything, you have to really sit there and think, is it worth it? Do you know what I mean? because I think you can put up with struggles and I would number one be the person to be like, you know, keep going, fight through it.

1:05:23But I think your mental health is so important and it took such a toll on mine that I'm kind of like, if you're in a situation where you feel like you're really struggling or you don't know which way to turn, I think you need to look inwards and be like, how is this, how is it affecting me as a person? Am I noticing my friends and family noticing a difference in me? Am I eating? Am I sleeping? And if the answer to those questions are like, no, or like I've changed, you kind of need to think like life, nothing in life is worth losing your peace over, you know? Yeah. Yeah, no, 100%. And I think that...

1:05:52Because that's the same, that goes in the same, even if someone's going through a shit time with a relationship. Because if the relationship is breaking down and you feel like crap and you're not sleeping, you're not eating, it's like, that's not meant for you. You need to get rid of it. Yeah, you're so right, actually, because I was just thinking, won't name any names, but things like this do not need to come in the form of a business breaking down or even a relationship breaking down, like sometimes it doesn't happen to you sometimes you need to be the one to decide do you know what if my current situation for whatever reason maybe it's my job maybe it's my relationship maybe it's literally like my family maybe whatever is causing me that much ag and like day to day and affecting who I am how I show up like I feel like a shell of myself yeah like sometimes you need to make something break down yeah like sometimes you need to force it because you must have this as well when you've got friends that work like nine to five jobs and they hate it and they're feeling awful and they you know they're not eating sleeping they don't want to come out and it's like that they might not own a business but like that is so not the right thing for you if you're feeling that kind of way so i feel like i just really any advice i have for anyone that's feeling like they're struggling is if you're in a position to be able to change that thing that's making you unhappy or causing such chaos you're gonna come out the other side and be like thank god I've gotten rid of whatever it is yeah no I totally agree with that and I guess along the same lines what do you wish you'd known about building a brand as a solo founder before all of this I say it's hard I don't want to sit here and be all like I don't want to because I feel like now you ask me and I'm like I don't want to be a solo founder again so I feel like I can't really give advice on to I don't know if I'm in the headspace yeah no no I totally make sense and also I think that it's really tough in your situation too because it's not that you were a bad founder like as in it's not like you weren't able to make something happen and like even if that were the case it's like yeah maybe I should have known that just being a solo founder in this type of business wasn't the right thing like I I would not start as a solo founder again yeah like as in unless I I've done it once.

1:08:03Unless I had a huge amount of like, there's a reason why my latest business, I co-founded it. Like I, if I, unless I had a huge amount of assets behind me, I was just like, do you know what? If I lost this money, it doesn't even matter. Yeah. Which I don't think I would ever feel about anything just because that's not who I am. Yeah. Wouldn't do it. Just because like, as a founder, you are the only person who treats that business like your lifeblood. And like your, and it is, and it feels like it and you feel it every day. and yes everyone else might be super passionate and they might like you are so fortunate to get people who work for you who really feel that but at the same time at the end of the day when it all comes crashing down it comes back to you like as you said people ran away I had people run away I had you know like people are like sticks and fucking run for the hills and like it's just it's fucking hard yeah i think that the that's not to say don't be a solo founder ever yeah i from i'm sorry i'm answering my own question now lol um but i would do it better than i can but like i would say being a solo founder and trying to build a big life-changing growing sellable business is like very hard yeah it's so hard like very very hard and of course being a founder in any way is incredibly hard but like doing it to that extent and also choosing the most ruthless type of business because there are such different types of businesses yeah like there's a reason why i've also started a tech company rather than another e-commerce one honestly yeah it's just like i don't know it's it's a lot you don't need to choose the hardest roads of all the hard roads it's like yeah I love that you've kind of come out of this deciding on a little more soft life yeah like isn't it funny that people go through things and they're like do you know what actually wouldn't take the accolades no much and it's funny because I feel like it's even going into like my personal life now and like dating or like whatever I'm so like I am protecting my peace at all costs I'm like if anyone is even gives a whiff of like disturbing the peace I'm like because I've just been through so much and I felt so good now that I'm like I just want positive things which is funny because I think women are usually so good at taking on so much of the stress and therefore are willing to go through quite a lot of pain in a relationship in order to be like this is still worth it because I'm willing to do this because I can carry this.

1:10:33Yeah. And actually, I think it's funny when that like changes to like, actually, my pain threshold right now is a, it's like, it's like one fingernail. I'm actually just not going to be doing it. And deciding, do you know what? I don't need to go through shit all the time. No. It's a good decision. Yeah, 100%. I think next, I think next steps for me will probably be therapy. I haven't started yet. No. because I was meant to do it last year, but then it was just, you know, almost when you feel like you probably should have been going. I felt like I was so overwhelmed and didn't even want to talk about it.

1:11:07But now I've come out the other side. I'm like, there are some serious traumas that are going to need to be talked through. You went through grief. Like you've been through grief. You've been through also like all of that with the pressure of online, with the pressure of like the legal sides of things, like all of that. Like you've been through, I mean, you don't need me to tell you you've been through so much. But like, yeah, I think that I can totally understand that at the time actually unpacking wasn't helpful when you were still packing on you're like I'm still building actually the trauma so just let me build the trauma but I can imagine that's that it's also gonna be a journey I think it's this sense of loss and the sense of like rejection even though like it's not it's a weird form of rejection because it feels like you've kind of like been rejected from what you thought was what you were good at it's really weird it's like the same rejection you get from a breakup yeah it's almost like what you thought you were doing well has gone like no like if that it's very weird so I feel like at some point I'll be I'll be ready to lie on a couch and talk about it I'll stop doing it over mimosas and spicy margs with my friends and on public yeah and on podcasts and I'll actually go and do it properly yeah no well I think that I mean I have no doubt that that will be like hugely helpful yeah be able to kind of like put an end to this era in your life of so that you can actually move on yeah kind of go next which i honestly you've been through so much within this year i think the processing part needs to be as long as you can actually like yeah give yourself definitely um so before we finish i know you've already answered this question before given you've been on the podcast before but i would love to know maybe with all of this in mind what you would say that the best piece of advice is that you've ever been given I am going to say, it's not even advice I've been given, it's just what I've learned.

1:12:54And I did actually say this earlier, is it's like things will happen to you that you can't control. You can only control how you react to them. And I think that is such an important thing to remember, that as long as what you're doing feels true to yourself and the way you're controlling the situation is in the best way you possibly can, that's literally all you can do. And it's just the way you should show up in life, really, and just stop trying to control things you can't control. I love that. Thank you so much. And thank you so much for coming on. Thanks for having me back on. Next time, guys.

1:13:24Next time. It's going to be a big win. It's going to be a success story. I promise. You are a success story. People only want to hear about your failures because you are a success story. And I will not take any other answers to that. Thank you.

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