How to build a future you actually want (with your best friend by your side) with Sophia & Cinzia

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1:42Grace Beverley: What is up? I'm Grace Beverly and welcome back to Working Hard, the podcast shape guidebook on how to improve your own life and achieve what you actually dreamed of doing. because life's too short for boring podcasts and bad advice.

1:56Grace Beverley: What is up and welcome back to Working Hard. I am so excited about this episode. Today I am sitting down with the one, the only, the two, the only, Sophia and Chincia. You will know them as the host of The Girls' Bathroom and the founder of Rooms. They are two of the most creative, funny and honestly just lovely people I know and they almost never, well actually they never do podcast interviews. So let's just say I really wanted to make the most out of having them here and genuinely diving into their journey and the behind the scenes. We get into what it's actually been like building a career and a business together as best friends, any misconceptions around that, growing up in public, what they've learned from the harder moments, including launching rooms and a lot of juicy girl chats, of course, because we couldn't do this episode without that.

2:41Grace Beverley: And please don't forget to subscribe. It helps me to keep this podcast free and releasing a video designed to improve your life every single week.

2:52Grace Beverley: it's very interesting to you are you currently more working hard or hardly working we're working very hard i would say we're working hard right now yeah yeah tell me a little bit about it we launched our brand rooms towards the end of last year october yes yes so i feel like ever since then it's probably pretty safe to say we've been working hard has it been a lot harder work than you thought it was going to be definitely it's been different it's like a whole new avenue for us it's added lots of different things to our plate different challenges yeah challenges surprises if you will learning a lot but we love it so much and we're really proud that we've finally done it and the products are so cute thank you so happy with them for the listeners I got a big goodie box this morning she did I'm going to keep all the candle bits like and the vases and stuff wrapped up for the most so that then I can, you know when it's like nice to unpackage when you're in like a nice place and then you can be like, yes, and then you're going to see it.

3:51Grace Beverley: I saw you put a photo of like your apartment the other day and all the pastel colours. I was like, wow. It's like an explosion in my flat at this point. It's so cute. It's so girl flat. Like as in, and I say that in the, like, I mean that as the deepest compliment. Yeah. I like it. I need all the colours. Yeah. It's like I've got so many samples. I know. I've got nowhere else to put it. My flat is exploding. Perfect. That's literally why you start a business. So take me back all the way to before everything started. So before YouTube, what were you like as kids? And how did you find each other?

4:30We found each other at primary school. Well, at ballet specifically. Yeah, but we found each other at primary school. Oh, and then our mum sent us to the same ballet. But I set my eyes when you first at ballet. when you came to visit. She was after me, yeah. So I was between a ballerina. Oh, yeah. It was this girl, she's touring, well that's Sophia from school. Yeah, and I walked in, I was like, oh my God, mum, where's that girl from school? And she was like, yeah, that's why you're in this ballet class because your mates here from school. So we met at school, primary school. And were you good ballerinas?

5:01Fantastic. We were great. Since you actually got a scholarship. Did you? At one point. That was before things developed. So the story starts. Yeah, it was pre-puberty. but we both had quite a good get i mean listen we were front and center a couple times so jazz we really came to because it was when we got onto point is when i actually started to struggle yeah

5:22Grace Beverley: isn't it so annoying when you go through puberty and you lose something like i was so fast um before puberty like i was like yeah i was like doing county like county oh yeah i was speeding along on sports day yeah yeah yeah i was running that leg and then everyone else grew and I didn't. Such a shame. Such a shame. Had I just had a few more inches in these little legs you never know you couldn't be sitting opposite an Olympian right now. Yes. And all the way back then would you say that you knew you were going to have a friendship that lasted this long? Oh I think so. I hope so. I think we definitely like growing up we always knew we wanted to do something together as well that was always the goal for us like I remember us being like at secondary school and being like right what we're gonna do then because we've got to do something together so what's it gonna be we're like where should we go what should we do should we start a magazine yeah that's a very good idea yeah we would go home I had this little laptop we were like right well let's just build our magazine so what should we call it do you remember what we called it no but I remember we made a nail art channel and that was called top polish something or other Now we made, on Sophia's little iPad, we made like nail art videos.

6:39Yeah. And those were our first like published YouTube videos. That's still up. We've actually found the channel a few years ago. It was like, you will need a blue polish, a white polish, a brown polish. And we would do all these little designs. And do you do nails now? We don't. I was going to say your nails are looking gorgeous. But that could have been another career path for us.

6:54Grace Beverley: That could have been, yeah. Yeah. That was fun. So talk to me about starting the YouTube then. Was that like just that YouTube had come along and then you thought, okay, well, this is the thing we're going to do together. Had you seen other people kind of make it on there? So we actually had a fashion blog when we were 16, 17. So we would go to a shop. We would take Chintzia's mum's credit card, buy loads of stuff. What? Goals. Dad gave us a hundred pound cash float. Oh yeah, that was, he did. So we had a hundred pound cash float. So then we'd go and buy clothes and then shoot them for our book.

7:27Shoot them in our outfits. And then return them. And then we had this like float money. Yeah. So we did that. probably from like 16, 17. And then we would do it every weekend. We would go and do our blog posts. And we'd shoot videos for the blog as well. Like little like outfit videos. And then that was the first kind of stuff

7:45Grace Beverley: that went on YouTube. We weren't speaking. We were too scared to speak. Oh, I love back in the early YouTube days, the fact that how much of it wasn't speaking. My first vlogs had no, they were literally just no copyright music. And they would like, you'd see my legs, my little legs, like from filming from here, walking to the gym. Then you'd see the workout. Then you'd see walking out of the gym. Done. gorgeous no greeting no no hi no hi no hi that's it who was our YouTube icon hello Claire hello Claire shout out and she would do outfits without the she would do like outfit videos like music yeah like cook yeah cool things really cool yeah yeah great but our icon was Negin we loved we loved bloggers Kizu Negin yes we loved bloggers we're like well we need to be bloggers this is the coolest thing in the world we have to be these cool we have to be fashion bloggers we have yeah so yeah we made a blog and then we put the youtube videos on the blog so the reason we kind of started the youtube channel was so we could have videos to go on our blog like embed the link yeah but then we kind of found ourselves like we had a nice really nice little audience on there and they were like i wonder what you guys sound like like i wonder what your voices are like hi um yeah to see like some like i think a couple of people are asking for like speaking videos like okay well let's just finish school first because we're a bit too scared yeah and then once we were finishing sixth form we're like look let's do a get ready with us for prom that was our first like speaking video oh we were like 18 a landmark moment for your first video i know good times what a night that was do you remember how many views that video got no i remember the moment that one of our get ready with us hit 10 000 views yeah and we were like oh my god like whoa oh my god it was like it was overnight i think we woke up yeah so i've just got a memory i remember that and we were in my well i was in my i would have been in my bedroom yeah and i just remember us facing oh my god it's on 10 000 views like oh my god but i don't think it was that first one it was maybe a couple get ready we then started doing like three YouTube videos a week so we were trying to be really consistent on that weren't we we were we were hammering them we were just having our gap year three YouTube videos a week yeah it's the standard back then you just had to and you were our vegan icon Grace oh thank you so much I'm sorry to let you down no I mean us too we've let you do the downest planet we're all vegan eggs and cheese and fish that's fine but you were our vegan icon oh I'm so glad the what I eat in a day is my gosh inspiration I'm so thrilled.

10:18Grace Beverley: Well, I just had a German juice for lunch, if that helps. Oh, nice. Which one did you get? I got the club. Oh, yeah. I like that one. Yeah, just a little classic. Not going to upset me. Not going to upset the baby. It's the afternoon of recording. Yeah, keep everything up. Busy day. Keep everything settled. Yeah. You wouldn't have liked that in my What I Ate in a Day videos, though. That would have. You would have gone, oh, my God. That would be a scandal. Oh, absolutely would have. Freely. Freely got back. I would not approve of that. We speak about her like every two weeks. All the time. It's like a really popular appearance.

10:49She came up with my TikTok like two days ago. She's, yeah. She's still her. She's still her till four. Really the banana girl. Well, she's actually, she was eating rice and potatoes. So she's not like royal anymore.

10:59Grace Beverley: Oh, maybe royal rice. Well, not royal till four anymore. Okay, fine. Maybe she is. I don't know. Yeah. But show that room. Oh, I'll take a little look. Nine banana smoothies. So how did it go from that beginning point of, obviously three videos a week or getting 10 and a half thousand views on your get ready with me to actually being like okay we think we've made something here i remember when we made like 11 pence do you i remember on our blog and that was like wild like we were like screaming like oh my god we've made money my mom came upstairs like what are you shouting about i was like we've made 11p because we used to do all these like shop style links so i think when we left school we didn't apply for you and you did we?

11:44Well, you did. Yeah, it wasn't a proper, it wasn't a real, well, it was. It was. I was like, well, what am I going to do? Like, I have to do something in fashion, obviously. Yeah. So I'll just be a fashion stylist. And I was just like, you didn't need qualifications for this fashion styling degree in London. So both, we were both going to have a gap year. We did agree. We didn't have a plan. Went into the gap year, wanting to do the YouTube, wanting to do the blog. And I think both of our parents pretty much said to us, like, if by the end of your gap year, like we had part-time jobs, we were working, If by the end of the gap year, this isn't doing what you want it to do, you need to get in the real world, basically, like get an apprenticeship, go to uni, like get a job, like do something.

12:22And then I remember by the summertime, we hit 100k on YouTube. And we were like, woohoo.

12:28Grace Beverley: By that first summer or the second summer? The first summer. Sorry. So we left school in the July. And then by the following summer. Oh, amazing. So you just like double downed on it. Yeah. Yeah, and then I think we left our part-time jobs and we were like, great, let's do this. It's working. Yeah. Let's keep going. And did it start to make you proper money from that point? It was the shop style links because we were smashing out hauls. It was like when everyone was doing the big hauls. Yeah. Oh, Patricia Wright, I spent a thousand pounds on this. Yes. Ooh. Classic YouTube. God, the way I'd look forward to watching one of those evening.

13:01The serotonin they would bring. But we would do like PLT hauls, all sorts. We got an early sponsorship from Ryman's. Remember that?

13:08Grace Beverley: Our very first, yeah, our very first brand deal. That was my sponsor of Ryman's. I was using fucking stationery all the time. Ryman's. Yeah, we had to go to a Ryman's shop. We're like, come with us. We're going to Ryman's. Like back to school stuff. It was a back school thing. And you're like, I'm not going to. Yeah, we're not going back to school, but maybe some of you are. But here are some colourful pens. Yeah. It's great. Cute. And then we got a little House of CB gig. That was great. That was our second brand deal, House of CB. We just did it for the free clothes. It was brilliant. Oh my goodness.

13:34And we still love House of CB. Yeah, still do.

13:36Grace Beverley: And what would you say your favourite part of growing up online was? Doing it with each other. Yeah. We had so much fun. We got to travel. We did. In our gap year, we went on loads of little trips. And they were integral to the building of our YouTube channel, I think. They were. And they're great memories to have to watch back as well. People still quote our Budapest vlog. Yes, they do. And we've got good times. On that vlog. Yeah, we managed to do it all together and have so much fun. Yeah. What about the other side? What would you say the hardest part of growing up online was? probably when you first get like comments being like well chintzy as so and so looks like that what why you know like comments on your body yeah yeah it's like oh whoa or even just people trying to be like over analyzing our friendship sometimes and i can imagine that i think that that is actually that and it's like well because you must have such a strong friendship to have especially in the early days have never have let those types of things get to you because i can imagine that Like if you have even an ounce of insecurity about the friendship or like how you feel about someone or whatever, then if other people are being like, oh, she secretly hates her.

14:43Grace Beverley: It could really get in your head. Yeah. But I think that's where we've been so lucky to have each other because it's quite rare that I think we're both having the same like down day. Like it might be one of us and the other ones are like, oh, don't worry about it. Just ignore it. Or equally, the other one could be feeling like, oh, doesn't matter. Like we do have each other to lean on and to just kind of helps brush it off, I think. Yeah. And at that point, when you were obviously doing really well on YouTube, did you then think about YouTube as like, okay, well, this is just going to be our career?

15:11Grace Beverley: Or was there a specific direction you wanted to go in? I don't know. I think there's always been the element of the unknown. Even now, it's like, God, what are we going to be doing when we're 60? Like, who knows? We've not seen a generation of people yet have this online career. So I think we've always just been like, let's make hay while the sun shines. Like, we can keep doing it next year, the year after. Great, great, great. We didn't think too long term. No, I mean, think when we started our YouTube channel, like, we didn't know what a podcast was. That's true. So like that was a whole new concept to us, like when we thought the idea to start the podcast.

15:46So we've just kind of been going with the flow. But see where it takes us. From the kind of moment we started, like since the podcast really, and we've been making money with, we have had this joint bank account. We have been saving for a brand and that was always our goal. We didn't know what it was going to look like in the beginning at all. We had so many different ideas, all sorts, but we always knew we were going to invest it in something at one point.

16:09Grace Beverley: And I think one of the really obvious things from the outside looking in on your journey is that you guys have been really good at just helping it like evolve over time. Like it doesn't need to be just one thing because it was one thing at that point. Like your, obviously the girls bathroom came out of like the Girl Talk Boy Talk series and then being able to see that go. And then now that's your biggest thing. Like as in that's been huge over the past, is it like seven years? Seven years. That's crazy. I really admire the way you've been able to kind of allow it to evolve with the audience but also kind of force that in terms of the direction you want to go in the type of life you want to build and the type of work you want to be doing because I think so many people would have got to this stage and just been like god we've been doing this for a really long time and there's no longevity in this industry and like all of these different things and then just kind of freaked out or try to do too many different things at once whereas I think the way that trajectory has been for you has made so much sense for both like you and the audience.

17:07Yeah. Yeah. I think everything's always felt like a really natural stepping stone as well. Like even with the podcast, when we started that, we were like, oh, is anyone going to listen to it? Like, is anyone going to move across? Like that was when podcasts weren't being filmed and it was like, oh, people are used to seeing us on YouTube and watching us. Like, are they going to be as engaged just like with their headphones in? Is it going to translate? But we really wanted to do it. We really believed in it. So we did. And I think that's kind of always been like our ethos. as long as we're passionate about it, we're excited about it.

17:36Hopefully other people will do as well. And the timing's always worked out and we feel like with rooms it was the perfect time for it to come about. Any sooner I think we had a lot of learning we needed to do and a lot of growth. But again, that's something that you could have. A lot of frontal lobes to develop. Yeah, many frontal lobes. So many. Many frontal lobes. We can't be making big decisions before we're 25, I don't think. Okay.

17:58Grace Beverley: So we'll get stuck in now. Just insult the host of this question. Yeah, it's fine. Have you got something to say? Just like I say it. Passive aggressive. Yeah, exactly. You and your dumb decisions were all 25. Passive aggressive. But I think that like it would have been so easy at that point, especially like when people started to build brands and started to do this specific thing. Like, I don't know, I've always had the conception of the way you guys do things. When you do something, you do it, but you're also, it feels like you're very selective about the types of opportunities you're taking and rather than just being like, oh, well, everyone's starting this.

18:33Grace Beverley: So like you could have started a brand seven, eight years ago. Yeah. Like easily. We tried. I mean, we felt like that. Okay, sure. We felt the pressure and we really did try. We wanted to launch a clothing brand at one point. Oh, I remember this. Yeah. Do you remember we went for lunch? Oh, yeah. And we were like, Grace, that was. Grace is like our icon in life. Like we're like, Grace, can we be up, please? We need to talk about lawyers and we need help. Oh, Grace on lawyers. Well, we're like, I think these people are trying to take our money. And you were like, right, okay. So what we need to do is X, Y, Z.

19:01Yeah. Yeah. we really tried just after covid like we're gonna do this clothing brand and but the team was wrong many things were wrong it fell apart quite quickly yeah but that's what i think that

19:13Grace Beverley: maybe people don't see from the behind the scenes because obviously i've seen a lot of that but i think that it's been it's quite easy to then assume and we'll come on to speaking about like rooms in the journey and um kind of inception to where it is now and everything but i think the assumption always is that people jump at the first opportunity they get and therefore if you're critiquing it or whatever it might be it must be because they've just jumped at it and everything's just people doing things to get more money or whatever it might be and actually knowing you guys from what's behind the scenes and all of that is like and seeing that evolution it's like it's very obvious that you take your audience and your responsibility very seriously in terms of like what you're actually going to put out there yeah we would never want to just like put our face on something and be like we've spent ages working on this like I'm really proud of it yeah no like we want to be so involved we take so much pride in everything we put out like we also have a very clear vision I feel like we always have about what we like what we don't like like we're very fussy we're very picky even down to like who we work with yeah we are so yeah it's we like things to be as perfect as they can be and we really value our audience yeah like their trust is everything if we didn't have their trust we wouldn't have anything so just making sure everything is perfect yeah and i think you've done that really well and i think it's very it's very hard to do because also like you're never going to make everyone happy yeah um and i think that in this world of social media like it's really easy to assume that if you don't like something but you were really big fan of that person then it's like a personal thing whereas actually there are many like there would have been people who don't like activewear or don't like like whatever i did at what whatever stage that's not that doesn't mean i don't you know aren't grateful for them or don't like them or whatever like as in you can just do different things that work for different people But I guess over all of this time, you've gone from being like business partners to co-hosts to like co-founders.

21:04Grace Beverley: What would you say has been the biggest secret to making that work without it, without like growing at different rates or blowing up in flames? Like when you get to different life stages or you have different, I don't know, whatever. There are so many things that could go wrong. I just feel like it's kind of like what we said before. Like we've, we've even growing up, like we've always liked the same stuff. We've always gravitated towards the same stuff. We've always just been very aligned. Weirdly aligned. Yeah, it's a bit strange. Maybe. It was like divine time. It's like our outfit choices with the gender of your life.

21:37It's a girl. It's a girl. We've never, we've really. Farewell. We've been so lucky to never be in a position where like Chintzy is like, I really want to do this. I really think we should do it. And I'm like, oh God, couldn't think of anything worse. Like we've never had that struggle. so it's always just being quite straightforward. It's like we are real sisters and you trust your sisters, you trust your siblings and it's like we've just always known that we were going to do something together and it was going to work and it was going to be fine. We always have the trust. We're like delusionally optimistic.

22:13Oh, I love that. It'll be fine. It'll be fine. It'll be great. We could have worked together for hundreds of years. Yeah, it'll be fine. We'll pass it on to the grandkids. They'll love each other.

22:21Grace Beverley: I actually feel like delusional optimism is like one of the best mindset tricks ever. If I'm having a really shit day, me and Amar will do this thing to each other. We'll literally be, if one of us is just like, I just feel so fucking annoying or like I just don't want to do this meeting or whatever it might be, we will literally like sit opposite and we'll be like, so you're going to walk into that meeting. They're going to love you. They're going to start applauding. Everyone's going to fucking love your outfit. Then they're going to give you this money like on the table, cold hard cash. Cash injection.

22:51Grace Beverley: But genuinely like thinking about things just in the way of like, I think it's really easy to go into any day being like, oh, I just don't want to do this day or all these things could go wrong. I'm a real big fan of thinking of things the opposite way around. Always. We always like, best way to be. Gotta hype each other up, positive thinking. It's all gonna be fine. It'll all work out. Just keep going. It's all gonna be great. Easy. Love that. Yeah. And what would you say based on that then, the trajectory you've built over time together and this evolution of your like relationship, what do you think the biggest misconception is about your friendship?

23:23Well, people think we argue all the time, so we must stay. Well, we'd be like, tell us about an argument. Yeah. And they'd be like, well, we don't. Like, we're not screaming and shouting at each other. Yeah, to be fair. That's not our relationship. I think there are people who are like, so what is it then? Like, what's going on here? And it's like, I don't know. We're just normal friends. We are actually very relaxed. Yeah, we are very relaxed. And we are quite good with the flow. We're not very highly strong. And we all, like, I don't know. It's just always been this way. We've been friends since we were four.

23:52Grace Beverley: So yes, you are kind of like sisters. Yeah. If you spend that much time together from that young, it also means that you can have, you know, like when you have an argument with your sister, then two seconds later you're like, Hi. Can I borrow your tar? Hi. I'm like, have you stopped being a brat now? Like as in you are able to build that and mend that a lot easier because it's just kind of, it's like part of the relationship. And it's like, I'm not going anywhere. You're not going anywhere. It's like, yeah, we're locked in. we literally logged in yeah it's i mean it's so incredible that you've been able to do it because i think so many people would listen to this and be like yeah i've got a best friend but like fucking hell like if i were to try and build all of these things and then the pressure of it and like yeah like when things are really tough or you're just like not quite agreeing on the same decision or whatever like it's you have to be pretty agreeable people yeah but i also think it's been a very slow and steady journey our whole lives yeah like we started this when i was 16 so 11 years ago and even like when we're at ballet let's talk about ballet again we always bring it back to ballet as ballerinas bring it back you must mention it as a professional team of ballerinas I don't know we've always just done things together always done things together even just going to ballet class yeah it'd be like well I'm not going if you're not going yeah like well my mum says I've got to go so you've got to go we would just do the same stuff but yeah it has been very slow and steady it's not like we woke up one day and all of a sudden we had this new dynamic to our friendship and we had to tackle this and this and this like it's been very it's been a slow yeah we like it that way journey that we've got used to like we've got used to like working together and all those kind of dynamics so it's not yeah like you said it's not like being a shock hi girls now you're gonna start doing this and all of a sudden it's like a big shock yeah business is booming but you know what really helped zero the accounting platform for small businesses i used to think spreadsheets were just part of it.

25:48Ugh. But real-time cash flow? Wow. Invoices that chase themselves? Even better. Books that automate? That's a big one. And I can keep track from my phone while I get the job done. No spreadsheet in sight. What a life. Do right by yourself and your business and search XERO for your free trial. Conditions apply. Still waiting in line? Again? That's time you will never get back. Save time and money with Stamps.com. Over 4 million businesses have skipped the line with Stamps.com. Join them to save up to 90 % off carrier rates from your computer or phone right now. Print postage for certified mail, registered mail, and packages in seconds.

26:30Then schedule a pickup right from your home or office. For a limited time, go to Stamps.com and use code PODCAST for a free welcome gift. Taxes and fees apply. All right, ladies. When you've done the work, you want your hydration to do the same. Introducing new Gatorade Lower Sugar. now with no artificial flavors sweeteners or colors and 75 less sugar and all the electrolytes of regular gatorade now available nationwide i do think the pickiness actually is one of the biggest

26:59Grace Beverley: parts of your guys success like as in pickiness and like selectiveness around i i think you could have had the exact same success and it could have died so much earlier because i think also you both being the same level of picky being able to just be like you trust that if the other person's like no I'm not fucking doing that like I don't want that to come near me I think it looks really bad all of that yeah you trust each other enough to be like actually yeah maybe I was happy to do that for the paycheck but actually no maybe you're right like it's actually not the right thing and I think you really build that trust over time and you've been able to build that like muscle of the fact that actually waiting is often a good strategy like it's not about what to do as fast as possible like constantly to get to the next thing.

27:44Yeah, not doing things for the sake of it. No major rush. Not doing things just because you can as well. Because like we could have done that brand, what was it, five years ago? Yeah, people were like, yeah, let's do it. This will be great. Like we'll even give you this money to do it. And it was like, ooh, maybe not. And it was like, actually, we're going to take a couple of years off. And then we did. I think I remember you receiving some samples. Yeah, that was when we were like, oh no. That was when the dream died. That was when tears were shed.

28:09Grace Beverley: You could see like the future of people receiving those on TikTok. and you being like oh yeah it was it was a great lesson learned in that moment it was like the first ever samples we'd received really i guess we did do merch but it was that's like hoodies and stuff but like this is like a proper corset yeah and i think that was our also like our first this isn't like house to see be

28:31but that was our first experience of like how being surrounded with the wrong people can be really detrimental because we were explaining you know we want house to be i want this top i love this up we've got this daniel guizzo top like i love this stitching like i love this sip you see the fit it does this blah blah yeah yep yep yep yep we can absolutely yep yep yep easy easy sketch and we'll be like great these samples gonna be amazing like obviously first sample we're gonna have to make some tweaks but like the quality is gonna be there and they were terrible but then we were almost like no these are great like these are what you asked for and it's like no no no no no no i don't think i'm going crazy like no like i know you're like you've got 20 years on us

29:10Grace Beverley: but like I actually don't think you're right that's one of the hardest things to get right though when it's it's like that early stage is like you start to doubt yourself and your own intuition when you're like I'm sitting with someone here who's worked in this area for so much longer than me I made some of my biggest mistakes early on being like well if you're saying that it must be true because I'm literally like a 22 year old uni student like what the fuck do I know and they'd be like no this is you know this is exactly what you want and all of that and And I think particularly like there's all of this narrative around influencer brands and celebrity brands.

29:43Grace Beverley: And I think that one of the things that people don't realize is that behind the scenes, I think that because it's such a booming industry, it has some of the most predatorial people in the industry. And I'm happy to say that because I literally I will go head to head like as in because it's literally what it is down to its core is the fact that people have built these audiences often. large majority of the time it's women have built these audiences and then people look at them and they're like how has that person built something that's probably making millions a year like how the how have they done that and they assume that they know how to do that but beyond that point they have no other value it's like how do you expect that you guys would have built your audience and not know your audience well enough like you post every single like multiple times a week knowing how they're going to respond so obviously you would also know how they respond to a product And yet the assumption is as soon as it crosses from like this silly little influencer industry that all the girls are playing around in to this business industry.

30:41Grace Beverley: Oh, well, these girls must know nothing. Like that's literally how it comes across. And that's why, you know me, I'm literally militant on people I see that I'm like, I know you're being taken advantage of. I'm like, let me in your email. I'm like, chat. We need a lawyer. But like it's so and I sometimes feel sorry for people when I can tell that's happened and they've then gone out to market and they've been like, well, amazing, we've launched this thing. And I have no doubt they had such good intentions for it at the beginning. And as soon as they've gone into the business side of the industry, the assumption has been like, oh, well, these silly little girls won't know that we've taken this off the margin.

31:19Grace Beverley: So it's actually a really shit product, but it's got this, this and this. And it just, you know, it's their fans. so they'll just buy them anyway and it's like no we've seen now so many times over and over the businesses that actually work long term from influencers and celebrities would work if they didn't have the influencer and celebrity because the product is good because what you get one sale never get a sale again you're like no one comes back yeah exactly so I think that yeah I think that's one thing that people maybe don't know from the outside and then actually like so clear when you're inside and it's so frustrating and I think you've done so well to actually I have no doubt that you invested in that and just being able to be like right well not the right thing not worth compromising our customers so I want to talk about then the decision to launch rooms and the conceptualization behind it like when did it start to become an idea that you were thinking actually like this is the one that could work well I think after the downfall of CC the letdown of of the clothing.

32:19It was called S-I-C-I, C-C-S and a C. So cute. But we did find out there is a jewellery brand called C-C. C-C, but it's got two eyes on the end. Does it? I think so. Okay. Or no, maybe it doesn't. Yeah. So we couldn't have used that anyway, but that was our, like, vision. Yeah. So then that kind of, like, sadly died. And then we did entertain the idea of maybe doing beauty. Because we thought you guys would kill beauty. Don't put it to bed completely.

32:44Grace Beverley: You need an investor, you pick up your phone. Grace. So yeah, we thought beauty, we thought wet products. We thought perfume. We were like, oh, that actually really interests us. We'd love to develop a scent. But then we didn't really, that didn't really stick. Well, I think then when we really started to flesh out the idea for rooms and it being homeware and lifestyle, the scent kind of came back. Because we were like, ah, a candle. Perfect. So it all kind of felt like it was kind of meant to be. And we ended up where we should have, but we just took a few detours. We took those few years off.

33:19And I think in those years, we like grew a lot. We moved to London. Yeah. And we like developed our like homeware tastes and like the value of like a vase, like a value of good vase, a mug. Yeah. And like things that we would use in our home. And we thought that would be really special. And something that also would carry us on. Like we've been online for 10 years. Yes. So it was like, okay, we're going to start a brand like frontal lobes here. Like we know what we want now. like we're more confident in our own opinions we're more confident in our decision making like we know what we like yeah we do back ourselves so it's like okay let's look ahead to the next 10 years like what do we want to take with us there so yeah the homeware and the lifestyle just felt like a really nice place to sit and also what we liked a lot about rooms was not to like make a pun but it has so much room to grow like it's quite a vague put that on an invested today it's quite a vague like it's a big umbrella yeah like we can do we could do a perfume one day for rooms we could do wet products for rooms like we could do a cushion we could make a dining table like it has so much space which we really like that really excited us because we're like okay well we can start where we're going to start but there's so many rooms at the house so we can there's

34:28Grace Beverley: so many avenues that can go down yeah and I think it also makes so much sense because I don't know I think people who've grown up with you and watch your vlogs and all of that they know that you like spending that time at home and making your home a nice place and you have the gorgeous aesthetic and all of that that it so clearly makes sense to just be able to be like okay well we as people who like that for other people who like that what would we want actually within that space and you can see that come through in like the uniqueness of the different products and everything and what would you say the biggest difficulty has been in the transition from being purely content creators to being business owners.

35:06I think there is an element of you do kind of put yourself in the firing line. Yeah. I think female founders is a lot of critique. We were prepared for like the critique and all that came with it. We tried to prepare ourselves anyway. Yeah, I mean, I do think there was going to be a lot of eyes on it. People were going to pick it apart. Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of a double-edged sword though, because we're so privileged to be in the position that we're in where we do have an audience so that we can launch a brand. You know, we wouldn't be able to have a brand if we didn't have our audience. But then it's also the huge amount of pressure that's like, okay, there's eyes on it from day one.

35:46Presenting it to our audience. Yes. And, you know, you're starting a new business, you're taking a risk, you're stepping out of your comfort zone. This is a new role for us. It's a new role for anyone when they step into it and it's like oh we really have to get this right like straight off the bat we can't there's there's very little room for much trial and error because you don't know let anyone down you've got people there straight away wanting to buy wanting to be excited for you wanting to get involved and so yeah there is a lot of pressure to be like oh everything just has to be perfect and we are perfectionists so learning that mistakes are going to be made and things are going to go wrong like we had to like it's fine yeah also there are things how much you do

36:25Grace Beverley: even if you looked at like samples from the production line like all of this like you've got some fragile products yeah something's gonna break in the post sometimes things are stolen from people's doorstep and it's not actually your fault but it's also at the same time you're like that's their experience with us yeah like left out in the rain and it was like oh no now this girl's dressing gowns because it's been left out in the rain right but like that well that wasn't us that left out in the rain like that was the postman but you feel accountable we felt so bad like get a five more just for our whole family no but i think that that is i mean it's a huge point i think that again one of the things that is talked about a lot and i'm absolutely not like woe is me about influence celebrity celebrity brands because like obviously there's huge upside but at the same time there's this talk of like oh well they're guaranteed to succeed because of this but it's also like okay imagine if you were going to make your first sale ever and it had to be to like two million people like as in that was the only way you were allowed to make your first sale ever was for it to be like on a pulpit out to these like millions of people like you'd be shit scared and you also what I really struggle with is the fact that with businesses like with starting any business in order to start you just have to get something out there like you will look back in a few years even though your products are gorgeous now you'll look back and be like why didn't we do this why didn't we do this why didn't we do this like I will do that every single year of my life like it's not a critique thing it's just you learn things over time you understand your customer better all of this that is exactly why you are encouraged within a business to just get things out there and when you're on a platform you do not have the ability to get things out there and make mistakes without it feeling like a personal attack for a lot of people and I think that and it and it makes sense you're asking for people's money like it it makes sense there is this exchange of goods but at the same time there has to be space for that natural business process of kind of like okay well just like with everyone doing anything you don't get it completely right the first time you do your absolute best and you make every single decision you possibly could to be like this is watertight I have it all the time where I'm literally like oh that was the last thing I was expecting it's gonna be a problem but like yeah hello like sure like let's sort this now um but it is yeah it I think it's a rough transition the the content creator where essentially everything's received by the audience for free and the exchange is just your time for entertainment essentially and then you get the success of the brand deals and all of those types of things to the other side of essentially people parting with their money for products services like whatever it might be like it's a rough transition because there's a different type of relationship that people have with those things and if you think about like all the online shopping you do for example like it's so fucking annoying when it goes wrong and as soon as that's attached to a person it's much easier to be like fuck say yeah jill like why did you fucking do that yeah i think there's this perception that maybe like all influencers should start businesses and i actually think that you've done it really well in the way that it's a business that makes sense for you and you're like we want to start this we want to do this many different reasons so we're doing that i don't think it's like a natural career trajectory thing for everyone within the space for exactly that reason and i think if you're gonna do it like we have really had to learn you have to learn to be comfortable in the uncomfortable because you unfortunately are going to please everyone and I think we are people who like everyone to be happy we like everyone to be like yeah that's great like good mood all around like we never want to upset anyone but unfortunately when you are making decisions about fabrics products prices everything you cannot please everyone especially at the same time yeah so I think it's just like okay well we kind of knew that was coming like we kind of prepared for that like it's not a great feeling but at the end of the day we've got a lot of pride in what we're doing we really back it we really believe in it and that's I guess what it has to come down to because not everyone's going to be happy unfortunately and what did that initial response to rooms teach you like good and bad kind of that what I was just saying like you we're just not going to please everyone yeah and and we love our audience and we really appreciate their feedback they are always at the forefront of our minds and every decision we're making we're hoping that they're going to receive it really well and we're hoping that they're going to love everything that we're going to put out but unfortunately sometimes that's not the case but maybe the next drop there's going to be something that they will love and really want to have or buy um and it's just learning that okay not everyone's going to love everything and that is fine and like what sofia said about being comfortable in the uncomfortable and also just like giving it time like we were very aware when we launched rooms we were launching with some of our big ticket items like some of our biggest tickets three products as well and yeah you kind of wanted to be like wait till you see what else we've got in store like yeah you're gonna love other things if this this drop isn't for you but i think that's a learning curve as well because like had you had that before then maybe you would have gone back and been like okay well these are the 10 products we're launching in the first year these are our three favorites so we want to get them out in the first drop but actually maybe there's not enough price difference so we'll just do this one instead or whatever but that type of thing you literally can only learn from doing it like i've been there so many times i've been like oh i literally i could have predicted that even if maybe I couldn't like as in I'm like I'll always beat myself up and be like oh maybe I should have thought about that differently or whatever it might be but I do just think it's really that is literally building a business like if you talk to anyone who started a business they will say the exact same they'll be like oh this was my biggest mistake this was my biggest mistake this was my biggest mistake like all of that has to be room for trial and error there just has to be but already we feel like we've learned so much like winning new things every day and bounds even with the first drop like we were like the candle like that's everyone's gonna love that that's gonna be our hero product like the candle we love it so much it's like our favorite thing ever we've ever seen and our dressing gown outsold the candle and it was a beautiful favorite thing we were like i'm really shocked by that yeah like we were really shocked and then even with our jelly vase which was quite a recent launch that was something that like we loved it even from that first sample we were like oh my god this is perfect so unique like We can find another jelly vase on the internet.

42:52We were like, this is so bespoke.

42:54Grace Beverley: I've been searching hard for the jelly vase. We only had one sample and we were fighting over it. She was like, I'm going to take it home. I was like, no, you're not going to leave it here. She was like, no, I'm taking it home. I was like... And some of the team were like, okay, I get you guys love it, but this probably isn't going to be for everyone. So let's not get too many. Let's not be too disheartened if this doesn't fly off the shelves because it's a unique taste. And it's big. And it's big. And that like sold out in less than a minute and it was our fastest selling product. And we were like, oh my God, everyone loves this vase.

43:26So we are still learning so much about what our customer likes, what they don't like, what they want, what they don't want. So just got to take it all on board. But you're literally less than a year in.

43:36Grace Beverley: Right. You're a few months in. I don't think I learn half that, even like 5 % of the shit that I've learned since. in like the first year usually of a business is about you put a few things out there or maybe you put one thing out there two things out there three things out there you see which ones sell you reorder them you do that a few times like that is literally how it works so the assumption that you can reinvent everything within that time is just false and would be impossible and so it's like the ability to like with each product you're going to get to know your customer better and actually that's all you can do that's literally all you can do is like I think sometimes people forget it's literally the most within your interest is to get it right every time so obviously you're going to try and do that like as in like obviously obviously that's your number one thing is you want it to go well and for people to like it and for people to think that it's perfectly priced and the perfect like this colors and the perfect like all of that that's in your interest so you're going to try that every time you're probably going to get that right like 80 of the time and that's as people who know your audience really well usually business owners for the first time it's like yeah yeah exactly and you get that right a bit down the line and and you make like tons of mistakes in that time but now looking at it and and being a few launches in and and kind of understanding more and more what people want what's your goal with rooms like what do you see the future for rooms to be we'd really love people to be able to feel the products because that was one of the things have a sensory experience yeah like with the candle it was like selling a candle over the internet like they do it's tricky because like the scent we took so much time on the scent and perfecting it we just wanted everyone to smell it but like well if you just smell it you would love it like yeah so we give it away we really want to do this year maybe next like a pop-up that would be really fun for us so people can feel the dressing gown see the products in person everyone always says the products are bigger than they expect yeah like the vans my mum says that and the candle she's like god that vase is so heavy yeah yeah i know yeah it's a great quality yeah so that would be really exciting for us yeah and i think we just like kind of what we touched on before but we're just really hoping that rooms it's like the newest string to our bow and we just really hope that it stays with us something we take into our 30s maybe even our 40s um because it's it's quite surreal to be living in like the co-founder era for ourselves.

46:05It feels surreal that we've finally done it and it's something that we're speaking about and actively doing every single day. And it's up and it's running and like I even have this moment where it's like I'm coming downstairs in my dressing gown and I'm having my morning coffee and my cup and I'm like oh my god this is all our stuff like this is so cool. So yeah it's really nice to be finally in that space that we've always wanted to be in. Yeah and getting to create new things all the time like this first year we're really we're trying a bunch of things yeah because we do want to see what the audience want and what the rooms customer wants so like our summer drop it's going to be quite a surprise there's like lots of there's different things there is lots of different things um so yeah we're just going to see what lands we're going to experiment it's experimenting

46:50Grace Beverley: yeah and something's not going to work out but and has part of this been to design yourself i guess like a long-term trajectory in a world in which like I don't know you might want to have kids and take maternity leave at some point you might want I don't know you're in a obviously so much your business comes back to what you are doing yeah at any one time have has that been kind of part of the thought process definitely I think so as we're approaching 30 we are can't we yeah and we're obviously going to have the podcast for as long as we can yeah I mean we'd love to still do that when we're like six yeah because I think all our audiences are all like loose women you know Wow, yeah.

47:26The audience is growing with us. They've been with us until like 17, 16. So it'd be lovely to have them continue support rooms and the podcast for hundreds of years.

47:36Grace Beverley: I think I've been with you. For 600 years. I've got those special skills to be in mind. I'll be drinking unicorn blood. And I think that around that, I guess, and kind of alluding to what I said before as well, one of the things that always strikes me about you guys is how intentional you seem around creating the life you want and like building that specific life for in the day to day, for the future, all of that. Is that a very conscious decision? Since school, we've always had big dreams and like we wanted to leave Nottingham and we wanted to get out there. We love Notts. Shout out. We do. Shout out.

48:08We love Nottingham. Shout out. And we always wanted to... It is. And they've got a lot of new, good restaurants there. They're really popping off at the moment. It feels like I'm doing visit Nottingham. We are Victoria Centre. That's a new... Victoria Centre, keep using our sounds. Okay, shout out. Well, there you go. You can use this for good. We've always had big dreams. We have. Big ambitions. Big ambitions. And we could only have dreamt having a business. We would never, we didn't even think about that when we were 16. Yeah, well, we didn't know what it would look like, that's for sure. We didn't think about having a podcast.

48:42So many things have happened along the way that we were like, wow, if 16 year old little us could see us, they'd be like, God, it's done well those two, haven't they? Yeah. Which is special. Yeah. I love that feeling. That's the best feeling. Still waiting in line? Again?

48:59Grace Beverley: That's time you'll never get back. Save time and money with Stamps.com. Over 4 million businesses have skipped the line with Stamps.com. Join them to save up to 90 % off carrier rates from your computer or phone right now. Print postage for certified mail, registered mail, and packages in seconds. Then schedule a pickup right from your home or office. For a limited time, go to Stamps.com and use code PODCAST for a free welcome gift. Taxes and fees apply.

49:28Grace Beverley: Anne, I couldn't have done this podcast and let you go without answering some dilemmas from our listeners. Our favourite. What have we got? We'll try our best. Okay. Oh, they're even using the right terminology. I see a Brian mentioned. Yeah! Here we go. For anyone new, a Brian's a boy. Brian's a boy, Sarah's a girl. Sarah's a girl. Okay. Helen and Susan. Helen's a bit of like... Bitch. I look like the other woman the tricky friend sometimes Susan also is a bit tricky okay interesting or sometimes we like Susan yeah oh okay um okay so hey girls I can't believe I'm writing in I've been a fan of the YouTubes and podcasts for years and me and my bestie are even inspired to start our own one day so my dilemma is about a guy I've been seeing let's call him Brian there we go he is gorgeous kind and charismatic but also eight years older than me oh I've got some experience here and currently going through a divorce.

50:22Grace Beverley: Oh, not good experience to clarify. Good experience. I'm 20. I'm pretty new to dating. I've only recently started using apps and haven't had much experience in that department. A few weeks ago, I met Brian on a spontaneous night out and we instantly clicked. The conversation was effortless and we couldn't keep our hands off each other. Even after finding out that he was going through a divorce, I chose to enjoy the moment and was surprised by how comfortable and safe he made me feel. After that, we spoke constantly, voice notes calls everything felt natural and when we met again we had open conversations about our age gap and his past relationship he told me he wasn't interested in casually dating anymore which made things feel more meaningful but since then things have been confusing dump him he started pulling away slightly and then told me the age gap might be an issue without really explaining why despite that we still talk every day oh block this guy is going through all he's going mental compliments me and he says he likes me but his situation with his divorce is clearly affecting him he even cancelled plans last minute after an argument with his ex later calling me upset and saying he doesn't want to sorry i'm clearly not very gonna keep a neutral approach to this and saying he doesn't want to drag me into something difficult i really like him and i feel something i've never felt before but i'm scared of getting hurt or holding on to something that might not be right i don't know whether to keep seeing him and take things slow or walk away from the first person I felt truly comfortable with.

51:46Grace Beverley: I'm walking away. We're walking away. I'm walking away. He's just saying what he wants to keep you enough around as much as he can. He's trying to, the compliments and the speaking about the future and stuff. That's just all a tactic. And I think he probably knows, like, as a 20-year-old, he, like, we've all been there. We've dated someone older when we were younger and it was like, well, they must know best. like they must know how a relationship goes i don't like i i don't like that at all yeah and i say that from an age gap relationship but once my frontal lobe like genuinely yeah thank god um but genuinely like yeah i think he thinks he can just bring you along yeah you're there when he wants you like i'm surprised he even told you that he's going for a divorce i'm surprised he didn't keep all that a secret and was just lying to you just a lie to you to be honest i also think the part where it's like do I walk away from the first person I felt comfortable with it's like feeling comfortable is not the only um metric of success so like there are two things here on the one hand you might feel comfortable because you are attracted to avoidant men in which case like maybe feeling comfortable is not the right thing for you like maybe you need to address the fact that I'm not saying that's the case but that could be the case to in order to find the right person because you'll then feel comfortable in actual like security and support and healthy relationship.

53:12Someone who means what they say as well. Like I feel like when we were 20. Exactly. Think if we stayed with the men and we were chanted when we were 20.

53:20Grace Beverley: Also, I think it is normal to, as a 20 year old woman, to look at the men that age because there's a massive maturity gap and be like, what the fuck? So it's understandable that you then meet someone 28 and be like, wow, you're so emotionally mature and all of these things. You've got your life together. You just want a serious relationship. Exactly. that that like you can find a middle ground there can be other people who are like sensible and have emotional maturity without um acting like this yeah because this actually isn't emotional about and play mind games same one thing doing another la la la confusion is never good yes confusion is the answer confusion if you're not sure it's a no yeah thank you if we had a mic we We drop it, but we don't.

54:07Grace Beverley: It's above our heads. Right. Dilemma number two. Hey, girls. I'm currently in my fifth year of college and graduating this spring with an AFA in fine arts and a BS in English. Wow. She's an intelligent queen. She's intelligent and she's artsy. Love that. Love that. What a combo. A girl that can do both. I've always been a bit of a slow mover with my big life decisions. Gap year, first job at 19, taking five years to finish my degrees. You do say plural, though. um so now that graduation is actually here I feel like the pressure to figure it all out has hit me all at once here's my dilemma I loved every single one of my fine art classes and I know I want to do something creative but I have no idea what that actually looks like in a career I chose English as something practical to fall back on or potentially build on with grad school but over the past year I've also gotten really into digital art and design using procreate and adobe I love Procreate.

54:56I make our thumbnails on that.

54:58Grace Beverley: Oh, great. Oh, the software is available. Oh, so sweet. Sweet. It's really cute. Can you make your own thumbnails? Yeah. Oh, you're artisanal. Nice. Thank you. Thank you. And now I feel pulled in a million directions. Part of me wonders if I should pursue something like design properly. part of me thinks i should keep studying and another part of me is like do i just get a stable nine to five and figure it out on the side i feel stuck between wanting to use my creativity in a meaningful way and being scared of choosing the wrong path or not being secure enough i don't even know what jobs i should be looking for let alone whether i need more education or just more real world experience so girls what would you do in my position do i commit to something creative and go all in or is it smarter to play it safe and explore alongside a stable job i think while you're young take the risk take the risk I think go down the creative route love it go down the creative route give it a go it's kind of like what we did like we took that gap through and we're like let's give this a go see if anything can come out of it because this is what we love and this is what we want to do this is our passion and we hoped and prayed that something good would come out of it and it did um so I say take the risk always yeah don't play it safe especially when yeah i'm big on that i also think that like it's not always they're not always two extremes yeah like there are many stable nine to five that are like do your creative on the side there's a balance there yeah even like the the design aspect there are so many stable nine to fives that are like in the design aspect and you know digital design all of those different things yeah and it's like you you don't need to go into like a quote-unquote stable nine to five that you fucking hate because you're just not going to stick to it um also an added bit of advice is i think that you should speak to some people who do each of those jobs like literally like message people and just be like do you like your job what's the worst part of it like watch people's tiktoks and youtubes and all of that like get some insight into it because i think so many of us have this view of what a certain job looks like or is based on the title or whatever it might be and actually the reality of it is very different and also just like trying something because you You may as well just start one of those options.

57:12And then you never know who you would meet. And it's, oh, yeah, well, she does this or she actually left to do this. Like, just because you choose one right now doesn't mean that you can never do any of the others ever again. Like, you can do the 9 to 5 if you want to be stable, get your salary. Still got your evenings, got your weekends. Then you could do your creative. Your creative might really pick up. And it's, actually, I can lower my hours here and change how this looks. Like, the decision you make now doesn't have to be a decision that you live with forever and ever and ever and ever. You can always move.

57:37You can always change. You meet different people along the way. I think the best thing is just to start something. Otherwise, I think you get very stuck being like, oh my God, what if I make the wrong decision? Like, there's no wrong decision. Whatever decision you make is the right one. And see what happens. You can adapt. You can change your mind. Yeah. Like, learn as much as possible. Try as much as possible. Yeah.

57:56Grace Beverley: Yeah. I love it. Great advice, guys. Dilemma number three. Ladies, I need your help because I'm starting to feel a bit off in my friendships and I don't know if I'm overthinking or not. I've noticed recently that some of my friends will tease me, but it's always wrapped up as a joke and I feel like I can't say anything. It's the little comments about how I act, what I wear or just random things about me and everyone laughs so I laugh too but it doesn't actually feel funny on my end. It's like I'm the punchline more often than I'm part of the joke and I leave just feeling a bit embarrassed but I then question myself because technically they're just joking.

58:28No, no, no. I don't like that.

58:31Grace Beverley: The other thing is I've been starting to feel a bit left out in conversations like they'll reference things I wasn't included in or talk about plans, chats or moments that I should already know. And I'm just sat there trying to piece it together. No one's outright excluding me, but I definitely don't feel fully included either. And it makes me feel quite small in the group. I don't know what to do because nothing feels big enough to call out without it seeming dramatic. But it's happening enough that it's affecting how I feel around them. Do I say something? Do I distance myself? Or is this just normal friendship dynamics and I need to toughen up a bit?

59:02These aren't your friends, I don't think. like a friend makes you feel beautiful and compliments you that you're not the punchline and the fact that they're all getting laughs out of it but there's disguising it as but it is it was a joke that was a joke and i do also think it wasn't a joke i think it's so important to really tune in to like how do you feel when you leave someone yes like do you feel good do you feel better do you feel happy are you like oh that's great or are you like oh my god that was like thank god i'm out of there like i feel so much better now i've left like you need drain you need radiators sorry not drains yes you know so and it sounds like whenever you leave these friends you feel worse about yourself you've probably got a bit of anxiety about going to hang out with them now when you're hanging out you feel like you're kind of like would they be having a better time if i wasn't there like am i being left out like i think if you're even questioning like do my friends like me like that like i don't think you would be feeling that way for no reason so i would tune into that and maybe lean into some other friendships or some other hobbies and meet some friends via that i think so um because these don't sound like you're kind

1:00:03Grace Beverley: of people agree right last one oh straight into it over the past month i have noticed my husband has been getting way more texts than he used to he says it's just about work stuff but whenever i get close to him he makes sure to lock his phone so i can't see the screen oh weird yeah um that's something he never did before the really weird part is besides feeling hurt and pissed i've had these thoughts almost like i'm excited that he could be cheating like what the hell is that i I don't want him to cheat, but maybe deep down I do. I know my self-esteem being low is probably behind all of this.

1:00:36Grace Beverley: I want to confront him or make him show me his texts or snoop on his phone, but I haven't and I don't want to invade his privacy. What do I do? What's your instinct? He's being secretive with his phone. Therefore, an innocent snoop in some circumstances, I think, is acceptable. Legally suggestive. She said it. Yes, I do. To calm any, you know, overthinking this, or we will find what we think is on there, which she thinks things are happening on the back. True. I do also think if it's your husband, you know him well enough to know when he is lying. So if you did ask him in the moment, like, what was that?

1:01:14Why are you being weird? Why are you twisting your brain? Why is he going down? What's going on there? Let me check the weather. Let me go on it.

1:01:18Grace Beverley: Let me check the weather. I need to know if it's raining right now. Like, I feel like you would be able to judge if he was, like, being really shady about it. Or defensive. Or defensive. And then you take it to potential Snoop territory. Absolutely. But once you've Snoop once, I feel like you can't go back there. Yeah. And that's a line that you might not want to cross. And also could be potential fireworks if it was found out that you did Snoop. You have to stand on business if that is the case. And he might just be planning a surprise birthday party and then you've ruined it. Let's think the best of him.

1:01:50Grace Beverley: Yes, he could be. I think when you build a narrative in your head, that's when it gets really difficult because you're kind of like, you're just going round and round in circles. course like you've literally come to five conclusions in this and they may well be right like a woman's intuition sometimes that's what i'm thinking but that's the thing like very very powerful at the same time you'll know better than us because we don't know like as in you know yourself it you could be predisposed to maybe some anxious narratives but i think that then if plan one you in the moment you go why are you being weird or like something really casual a little like you're being strange with your phone lately like what's going on there like that type of thing like it's not like you're super early on dating someone you don't want to exactly like it's not like that like that's your husband i think you could like a hundred percent of my husband was being weird with his phone i would literally be like why are you doing that i'd be like you're being really strange like as in like i'd literally be like sometimes it's just easier to say it like that yeah and then then you can see their reaction and see if they're like Their reaction will tell you everything you need to know Exactly I think They react as Grace just did Yeah Definitely like Yeah You're quite good at this You should come on our podcast Oh thanks so much I would love to We can do take We did that like five years ago didn't we?

1:03:08Grace Beverley: We did like a Dilemmas one We did it Yeah Sorry it wasn't memorable Why? Yeah Search on Spotify Look out Audio only Yeah Where did we record it? It was in COVID so we were we were on a little zoom to each other i'm so sorry i do know that's okay no that will we've collaborated affect my self-esteem but it's okay i'll probably forget it by the end of the day visual doesn't count okay we need to get you on visually yeah get you on visual yeah oh perfect yeah guys i'm just not got a job you're hired severe intense yeah i'm grace watch out guys um that is sadly all we have time for which means to wrap up i'm gonna ask you what i ask everyone which is what is the best piece of advice that you've ever received well we love a quote we do we used to end our podcast with a quote every episode which is really bad maybe i can come on every week you give me the quote we'd be on pinterest like quote inspiring quotes uh but one of our favorite quotes i feel like right now especially with rooms and starting new things is you can be the juiciest peach in the world there's still someone who doesn't like peaches and it's just a good reminder like you can try your best you can be the best of the best you can do really well but unfortunately you just can't please everyone I think that's really good advice I also think that when I there was one period of time where I was like definitely having just like a more insecure year like my self-esteem wasn't great I wasn't feeling good about things and then I like really let it get to me and I really became like a smaller version of myself because i was like i don't want to be too this i don't want to be too this i don't want to be too this especially online then i was looking at all my favorite people online and i was like all of you are so clear in your opinions you know who you are you know who you're not you're very happy to be like oh that's just not my vibe and i was like god i've just taken away all the magic out of myself to try and be liked by everyone and actually makes me boring as far yeah doesn't do you any favors That was so fucking boring.

1:05:14Grace Beverley: Did you know if Ada's great? Yeah, exactly. You hated me that year. You didn't even remember me on the podcast. That's a good, I'm going to remember that myself. That was beautiful. That's really good. Yeah, I like that. Oh, thank you. Thank you for sharing. Thank you for having me. For forcing my advice back on you. No, thank you so much for joining me. You've been amazing. It's been a privilege to have you on. Thanks for having us. Grace, what an honour to be here. And I'll see you on yours. You will indeed.

1:05:59We'll see you next time.

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