Kayla Itsines reveals all: selling for $400m, starting a new chapter & pregnancy after loss

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0:28Grace Beverley: why what is up i'm grace beverly and welcome back to working hard the podcast shape guidebook on how to improve your own life and achieve what you actually dreamed of doing because life's too short for boring podcasts and bad advice.

0:42Grace Beverley: What is up and welcome back to Working Hard. Okay, what the fuck? I would say that 18 year old me would be in complete disbelief at recording this episode because, well I talk about it in the episode itself, but I at 18 would never have believed that I would be sitting here today with the guest we have on the podcast. Today I am joined by Kayla Itzinas. She is the woman who both inspired me to start my fitness journey online, but also I started my Instagram account with the word Kayla in it because it was a page dedicated to doing her guide. So therefore, I guess in a roundabout way, she inspired me to kind of start my career.

1:27Grace Beverley: And that's literally why I started posting on Instagram. And all of that was a snowball effect to get to where I am now and so this conversation felt so incredibly full circle. In the episode we talk about what the bikini body guide era was actually like behind the scenes and how it exploded globally so quickly and how Kayla built one of the biggest fitness movements in the world before the creator economy even existed. What I also really wanted from this episode, well I wanted a lot of things from this episode particularly because of the personal impact it had on me, but I really wanted to have an honest conversation between two women about success about what it means to be thrust into success about what that means for the people you have around you about what that means when you then go through big things Kayla also recently opened up about having lost a pregnancy which is obviously something that I went through pretty recently as well so we have a pretty unfiltered conversation in this episode in a way that I don't think either of us have online about both pregnancy loss and pregnancy after loss and I feel so grateful to Kayla for being so open I think that she for so many years has been thrust into this massive limelight and I mean like my limelight or my following or platform or whatever cannot even compare to the level of fame that she was thrust into super super young and the mistakes she's had to make at that level and the things that she's had to go through whilst also being a 20 year old in front of the whole world and I really wanted to have a conversation about what the behind the scenes of that actually looked like.

3:10Grace Beverley: Then very importantly I really wanted to come on to the decision to fully re-acquire Sweat which was an announcement made last week. She sold that company for 400 million in 2021 and we get into everything around that. But before we get into this episode, which is probably one of the best episodes I think we have ever recorded, could you please do yourselves a favour and follow the podcast wherever you're listening to it on? I really want to keep this podcast completely free like it always has been and to keep making it even better and do bonus episodes and do deep dive episodes on every topic you request.

3:43Grace Beverley: So if you follow us, that helps us hugely, means that we can continue to keep it free and means that you will continue to get an episode ready to improve your life every single Monday exactly where you want it.

3:59Grace Beverley: Kayla and Zinas, are you currently more working hard or hardly working? I'm working very hard. Yeah? You've had big news. Yes, I have. Sole owner of the business. What house? It's great. Oh God, it's all happening at once. I'd love for it all to happen at once. It's my only setting. I know, the chaos is, it feels comfortable. Yeah. I feel like when nothing's happening, I'm like, oh no. that's when you prepare that something's going to go wrong so you are the type of person that just likes to do things 100 miles per hour all the time 100 and you've always been that way always because you got into all of this so young I feel like you could have felt like you were just catapulted into something that wasn't necessarily meant for you but also at the same time if you're the type of person that thrives in the chaos clearly kind of was meant for you you're having the chaos you just make it work don't you like as a woman in this industry I kind of feel like I was the only one even though there was a few but where I was going I just felt like I was the only one but I just made it work yeah no but you were like you were so so early on and like were doing this thing that wasn't really invented until you started doing it and started doing it on such a massive scale and obviously as I've said like this is so surreal for me because I'm an OG fan like my first Instagram name of the account that I have now had your name in it that is how much of a fangirl I was do you ever think of like the ripple effect that you've had on people's careers um firstly thank you that's so nice of course um thank you uh thanks for the money thanks for the career

5:34the um I love stories like yours like I do um I think the first thing when I was like I was like I love Grace I love her content and knowing that like you were originally doing the bbg all that bbg stuff and and you loved and you had a positive experience with it and you've sort of gone on to build this career I love that like all I want to do whether I know it started with fitness but is empower women to do something to be better to to get up every single day and be the best versions of themselves and I feel that that saying just goes over people's heads so often be the best version of yourself bang but like for women I truly want that and that's why I was so obsessed with transformations physical yes amazing but the mental transformation that comes with doing BBG or starting a new business you would know like you become confident you become stronger you're wiser like look at who you are now versus who you were then you have posts about it lost confused starting out not knowing where to go not knowing where to shift into you inspire millions of women to be boxed to do something it's amazing I love that thank you well that was a very nice

6:39Grace Beverley: way of turning it around from being a compliment to you to be a compliment to me which is very kind of you I feel like that original bikini body guide era was so huge when it went global and it really did go global in a way that I think we hadn't quite seen from Instagram before because it was such early days Instagram I mean I started my account in 2015 I think you were going a little bit before then because I hopped on it because I was seeing it everywhere when it kind of went global in that way did you feel more like excited or overwhelmed overwhelmed yeah overwhelmed talk to me about it um when I developed the program the only reason that I wanted to do that is because I couldn't physically because I was a personal trainer one-on-one get to the person in Melbourne or the person in Sydney like I'm talking Australian and then it was the person in London and the person in Greece I'm like oh no so I developed these guides not thinking they would actually do well and the reason they did so well is because they simplified fitness for women and also empowered them at the exact same time so when I was in my parents backyard doing boot camps at the beach to then being catapulted into this lifestyle where people expected not so much of me but I just felt like this pressure to be this person and I was like I don't think you guys understand I'm literally from Adelaide like you put Adelaide on that for me thank you but I was I was freaking out and I had this um like is that imposter syndrome I don't know but I just every single boot camp I did I was thinking no one was going to come like surely they can't still be interested surely they not coming here to work out with me I would get so nervous my mouth would get so dry I would be able to have conversations like this yeah it was absolutely crazy and what did it look like then when it started obviously really taking off what did it actually look like in terms of intentionally scaling it because you had something that really started to take off and then completely snowballed but obviously there were then decisions like even if something is I don't really mean accident of course it wasn't an accident you put yourself in the right place you you did the actual work all of that but it took off to an extent I'm sure you couldn't have imagined before you did correct what did scaling that intentionally actually look like Like when did you start to think about that strategically in terms of, okay, people like this, what's actually the next step?

9:05Yeah, moving from the PDF, then going into the subscription business. Again, being the first, one of the first people to do that. Basically, without like tooting my own horn or whatever, I think that I was able to set the tone for the industry or part of the industry, at least for women. but the result of that was just constant mistakes made by me first yeah I'm going to talk about women I can't say people because I work with women but the ability for women to be able to do what they do is off the back of all my mistakes of trying to go from a pdf into an app try and build it yourself but don't have a team that's big enough for you you're not set up for success because you don't have anyone in customer care you don't have anyone in PR you don't have anyone you have no one you're literally and Lali was one of the first people who's my best friend but she was one of the first people ever to work there's a team of eight and we're like on the outside we're doing these mass scale boot camps and then we're on the today show in america and there's there's a couple of us in the office freaking the hell out so i guess it wasn't what it appeared but then you just learn and you just grow like i said we thrive in chaos we just adapted and just kept going kept growing got the right team around us and i guess we were able to be where we are today

10:19Grace Beverley: but not for nothing no I can imagine there was a lot of kind of as you say the price of being the first to do something is the mistakes that you have to make also very publicly like there was a level at which you started operating and you kind of then had to operate from that level so if there were a million people doing a guide at once and you're then converting that to an app how many apps have to start with like millions of people needing the server to work at the right time the workouts to download at the right time the exact customer journey that they would have expected and all of these different things particularly going from something so analog and I can imagine that like from the details of that and the actual individual things you're doing for the app all the way through to actually like building the team and knowing what structure your team should have and all of that I can imagine there was a lot of confusion and having to learn things through mistakes what would you say the biggest challenges were of growing something so quickly the biggest personal challenge for me is that I am a perfectionist which appears I think if you're a woman and you're a perfectionist you can be seen as controlling or you're micromanaging but at the end of the day imagine and I'm assuming you have this team behind you that is essentially trying to be you so this would be your content team trying to be you and it's almost like if they make a wrong move it's your wrong move if the server isn't built properly the app isn't coded a certain way the website is breaking it's on you it is your face and it is your name and because you're a perfectionist you're constantly in this stress where you're like trying to put your hands on everything and trying to be kind at the same time and be patient and knowing that you can't do everything and you burn out.

12:11And I don't know if you've ever been in this position, but for me that was probably the biggest personal struggle for me, trying to be at all places at once with a team trying to be me and also trying to be me as well. And then I think just the biggest like business struggle was being the first. Yeah. Being the first and making all those mistakes.

12:29Grace Beverley: And I actually have a question that wasn't one of my planned questions that I was going to ask, but I just I just remembered that at the time I was obviously like 18, like I was freshly 18 when I started these guides. and I or like I looked at the scale you were reaching and one thing I really respected and I don't know if it's something that I respected because we didn't have the Instagram culture that we do now and therefore like sponsorships weren't seen in the same way or whatever but I feel like at least from an external perspective at that point you were everywhere like you were international you were in person you were doing these boot camps you were had millions and millions of followers there was this cult-like following and at the same time you didn't seem to take huge sponsorship opportunities like I feel like you doubled down on building your own thing which I don't think is the natural thing to do at that point like as you say you were on all of these massive shows in the US you were literally everywhere like when I went to one of your boot camps and there were thousands and thousands of women and so what made you at the time concentrate on doing your own thing and really building your own thing when I have no doubt that like the Nikes the Adidas is the like down to the apples down to all of this like surely they would have been jumping to work with you and to like sponsor you and to have a big deal and I just I mean maybe I missed it I never see I never saw that coming through and it was so interesting at the time because it was the early days of sponsorship and like people were doing a lot for 20 quid and it usually had something to do with skinny meaty and like that type of vibe So I'm kind of like almost astounded that you in that era were just like, actually, I'm going to double down and just concentrate on me and my thing rather than I can imagine what it would have been very lucrative deals elsewhere.

14:36yeah um listen the thing is alongside the only way I can explain this is alongside being an absolute perfectionist all I care about outside of that is family and not even direct family but like for example my best friend or um someone that I've even just met feeling like they have a family and I think that's what resonated with the community and this is going somewhere I promise that the community and I don't know if you felt this felt like you had like a family a bunch of sisters around you people that wanted you to do well women that wanted you to do well and so with that only caring about a sense of family when brands would approach me you could kind of instantly feel that it was what can I get from you not what can I do for you it wasn't like this relationship where you felt like a family with these brands and because they're so big and they're so quick and they're so fast to jump at you it felt like you're almost being used it was like a toxic relationship but that's why I never really sort of partnered down with anyone because nothing really resonated nothing really felt quite right felt like you felt like a little bit of a sellout when the partnership wasn't quite right again being a female in the industry it's really hard because a lot of the people that you are having discussions with about partnerships and there was a lot behind the scenes there were a lot of partnerships with big huge brands many of the ones that you just mentioned but they bring forward men to have conversations with you and that's really hard as well because they don't understand anything about you do they don't understand your community they're just looking at numbers and data and what you can do for them and I think that every single time I said no I was like oh like what have I done that's a huge company that could have been a huge amazing thing what I should have done actually at the time is maybe rewarded the actual women that were at the boot camps with more like an affiliate program and done the reverse and turned it around in a modern day that's what I would have done but at the time I wasn't really thinking about that like you said I was doubling down on my brand and um I remember sitting down with the team at my work being like hey you guys handle like a lot of the and I shouldn't have done this at the time and again very young the first one to do it wouldn't do it now but being like hey that like the big data money side that you're trying to like sell me to people can you have a conversation on that the side and let me just focus on the women and the way that they feel in the community side I think that's why it did so well um at the start and why it got so big because you could actually feel that sense of community um how would I do it differently I don't know maybe yeah maybe that affiliate program yeah but also I mean there's

17:08Grace Beverley: part of me that's like I mean a huge part of me massively respects that decision at the same time you've reached heights that very few people have reached on an international scale in terms of like the actual reach the connection all of that you also deserve to be rewarded for that like you I know how people would have seen it like I know how people would have seen it at the time even if you were already wearing one of these brands or whatever it might be I know how people would have seen it because it was so early like influencers weren't so much of a thing but I'm also like when you're wearing that sports bra like you should be paid for that like you should be paid but like as in I get it I 100 % get it and I think it's very noble and I think it's 100 % what was the right decision for the time thank you at the same time I'm also like you are well within your right as someone who has built this to capitalize on what you have built without harming anyone else yes I totally agree with you I think that if you were to sit behind the scenes and there's like so much I can't say because obviously the businesses are so huge if you were to sit behind the scenes and the conversations that I would have with those men you would realize really really quickly although you think you're worth pay me you know x amount of money millions of dollars to wear that crop top or those shorts yeah the selling of your soul that came with it was just absolutely not worth it yeah and probably as well because it was such early days the type of the deals were yeah the deals were not good I'm it was probably like two years till I started to earn a penny from Instagram and even then it was like 20 quid for a Instagram post so it was like very it was very different from where we are now but I want to now come on to quickly speak about financially behind the guides themselves because I've spoken fully transparently around what that looked like for me at the time because like when I launched my first guides I was 19 and I've spoken about like the unfiltered like the pure like cash that just seemed to be like flying out of me it honestly felt like I had stumbled across a gold mine like I did not know what was happening, what to do, when it was going to end, what like I'd never seen that money before in my life.

19:19Grace Beverley: It was like there's no marginal cost. There's no cost of production for an e-book. So the sheer like financial benefit of something like that, like I know how much I made from those. I can't quite imagine at such a young age, like your early 20s. like what was that like for you when I truly can't imagine what bust have been flying around in your online dashboards in terms of like what you were actually earning and what was kind of coming into that company when was the inflection point and when did you start to realize and what was that kind of financially looking like in terms of what was flying in well I'll go back to the real real start so um my family I did not come from money I wasn't like living on the street or anything my dad was a teacher and my mom was a teacher's aide so she would help the the teachers as like to help the kids that with uh had ADHD and autism and all and all those spectrum disorders and so um when I could I got my first job and at a bakery so I would earn something like 13 and I thought with my$13, I could support myself.

20:28Then when I started personal training, I made it, it was, what was it? It was a dollar a minute and I only did 30-minute sessions. So if you did one-on-one with me, I would get$30. Now, if you brought a friend, I would halve that. So you guys just, all you had to do was, I think you brought$20 and your friend bought$20, so then I got$40. And then if you brought three friends or more, it was just$15 each. Four friends or more, it was$15 each. so that's how I started and I thought I had all the money in the world I had more money than my parents I had all the money in the world and I was fully booked and then so when I started Instagram and I started getting requests coming in I created the ebook and then I put it online so from me thinking I had all the money in the world because I was a fully booked personal trainer to going online as soon as I pressed go I thought no one was going to buy it because like I thought no one's going to shop to the boot camp no one's going to whatever it was go to that event no one's going to buy the book no one's going to buy this pdf and within a second like seconds the money started coming in and it wasn't like it wasn't so much but it was enough to be like as a person who just earned what a teacher earns in a year in 12 hours you start to be like hold on like this is absolutely insane so that was my first experience to put myself to bed ever since I was a kid I used to imagine what I would do if I had money so if I and I used to pretend that my like whatever it was my half dream my daydream that I found a million dollars in a bush obviously now naturally it's gonna be in a bush I'm like I'm like a young kid you like going past every bush like I'm like oh a million dollars in this bag obviously now if you find a million dollars in a bush you leave it there something bad is gonna happen to you but for some reason when I was innocent like six years old I was like I'm gonna find a million dollars in abortion what am I gonna do and the first thing that I would always do is I was gonna pay off my parents house I was gonna buy my uncle a car but my uncle this shed and so what did the first thing I did when I got that money was I immediately paid off my parents house I was like the first thing I did I was so happy my life could have ended there and I was the happiest person on earth so the money how long did it take you to do that

22:43Grace Beverley: to pay off my parents house I paid off my parents house that week so the first week you put the guides live I paid off my parents house yeah that's unbelievable I was so excited and then when it comes a business there are other people in the business that are like you know as the weeks go on the months go on the years go on you want to earn x amount of money and so there's like these let's say these are KPIs you want to hit these certain things and they will hit quite quickly so then i don't know if this will resonate but once you win if you're a person who's really bad at celebrating you go what's next so once you hit that what's next mail goes up this big more goes up this big more and it was like this okay yes the money coming in but there was no celebration around it there wasn't like a oh my god moment there wasn't i paid off my parents house moment ever again it was like yes the money was coming in what are we doing with this money and how are we doubling and how are we tripping and how are we going around and how we never took sponsorship for those bootcamps they cost us money to hire those locations and have those people there and have the the bottles and the and the foam rollers so yes the money was in but it was never celebrated which means if it was never celebrated it just it's almost like photo but it didn't happen so I think that that era of me and money was an absolute complete blurt never celebrated never had that wow moment other than paying off my parents house so I don't know and for you like you I hope that as a woman releasing a pdf and making money you went oh yeah you had that moment I never had that moment oh I never had the right people around me to have that moment yeah and I do think like when because even at the time like as in I kept it a secret because I was like this is almost sickening like I remember looking and in the first day there was like 14 ,000 pounds in there and then within a week there was like 80 ,000 pounds and I was literally like this is sickening like I was like I would not tell anyone about it and I remember literally like my you know my sister looked at it and she was like she saw it over my shoulder there's this thing that says like 14 ,000 pounds it was my like first day selling them and she looks over my sister and she goes is that how much you've made this year from sponsorships and i go this is from the guide i launched today and i was like gobsmacked and she goes mom grace i had 14 000 pounds today and we were it was like the day after christmas because i launched them on boxing day and um we were like seeing a musical or something and she goes well grace can buy the ice creams and then that when that like snowballed from there I absolutely I totally agree you have that feeling at the beginning and for the first few months I literally felt I felt like I'd won the lottery it's such a drastic change like it's I don't know I felt a drastic change when I went from like babysitting money to my internship money because when I was at my internship I earned 18 ,000 pounds a year which obviously doesn't feel a lot now because it was an intern salary but I was living in London and I was living at my parents and so I was like that's I mean it felt like a fucking load of money and then I from that point going to the next year like the e-books I was like I have never seen anything like this and you just kind of you stop thinking about money in the same way you stop thinking about like should I get a coffee or can I go on this night out or like whatever it might be and like that was the main thing it changed for me like that was the kind of adjustment but you're right that like past that point you're particularly when you get that pressure from all these different areas like she's doing really well at this she's doing this like where where are you going to go next I constantly had the fear that everything was about to stop like that was my big thing so I didn't spend it I think I didn't like you know I was just like oh this isn't mine like someone's gonna come take it and I think that you stop getting that feeling when it becomes okay how do we protect this how do we get the right people in to manage this how do we go to the next level how do we really you know make it work on a global scale or whatever so I totally agree and I think it's I mean kind of as you do it's easy to look back and be like oh that exciting part was so exciting but also after that point like why wasn't I like jumping for joy every day and just being like this is amazing not just because of the money but like don't get me wrong like that was amazing but because of like wow you've made something that you can extremely comfortably live off that is entirely based on you and you've given yourself a whole different lifestyle do you look back on that era fondly do you look back sad for yourself that you didn't celebrate a lot oh I look back sad that I didn't celebrate here here's what I did so I paid off my parents house bought my dad a car I retired my mom I tried to retire my dad he loves his job way too much retire please um and obviously you give your family a great lifestyle and what happens with that is you get a sense of responsibility not only do you now maintain your lifestyle but you maintain your family's lifestyle and my family did everything for me growing up that I have never gone a day where I didn't think I was loved like I was the most loved kid so I want to look after my family I felt a sense of responsibility and I just wanted to work and work and work to make sure that they were proud.

28:12And because they're traditional Greek, my grandparents, who I want to impress so much, I try and buy them anything new that I can. I give two shits. I give two shits. My grandma wants a new blender. It has to be the old blender. I have to go to bloody travel to Greece to find her the same blender, but it has to be the new version. Anyway, but they didn't really, they don't really value money. They value time and love. My parents don't give two shits. If I have no money or if I have money, they would always look after me and same with my sister and her partner. So I don't want to blame them in any way for not celebrating, but they weren't the ones to celebrate with.

28:46My friends, I lost a lot of my friends and they're not bad people, but I think that almost I became unrelatable to them because I was able to basically go to travel however I wanted. And then the group, the team around me was just so focused on the business. It was like when I won, everyone went into like, okay, next. So it was like, imagine me winning. So I'm completely by myself. So I get off stage in the bootcamp and my team that is with me, so it would be like the team from the company, would have their own jobs. Someone's got to clean up. Someone's got to do this. Someone's got to do that.

29:17So everyone's run off. Then I've got to meet and greet. So I meet everyone. So I get to hear these amazing stories and I am so happy, but I am starting to get so overwhelmed because, you know, the same person that someone will come up to you and they will have a beautiful story. The next person will come up and they've got a few months to live, but they're still here and then that hits you and that hits you and that hits you. And you finish. and if you can imagine you're in a hotel room and you're completely alone everyone has a job to do and you don't want to ring anyone because someone's still packing up at the event someone's organizing what's happening with the DJ and all their mics and speakers and someone and you're like I'm in a weird time zone like I can't really call my mom she'll be like oh that's good that's great that's amazing like that's awesome really happy and you're like I'm kind of really alone alone and that was for years and years and years and front facing you'd say hi I'm Kelly Cedars and I'm so excited to be here but then I'm like I'm so not excited to leave because I don't want to be alone in this without anyone celebrating around me now is so different and how did you

30:15Grace Beverley: build that then that like support system around you because like I'm sad that you didn't have that at the time I also totally understand because I've seen it and it and it makes total sense and you were like I can't even relate to the level of like stratospheric success that you were thrown into and like that constant travel and that like I mean you became like a massive celebrity in person overnight like the way you were talked about all of that so like it's unlike anything else really like the only thing I can possibly imagine is like someone who hasn't done anything before being cast in like a massive film or like whatever it might be like it's not even I don't know it's not even similar to people who get blasted to the world in reality tv like it's a whole different level yeah so how did you then build that around you I think that growing up in a family where all you feel is love um it takes you longer to get out of the bubble and see life for what it really is and I think um my family's still around me but I think I just had to remove certain people from my life to let new people in and I think right now if something was to happen which something did happen just recently I like I'm gonna cry but like having Lani and George is like don't don't wait I didn't be off camera don't worry but like having them around me and watching them do you have a tissue okay but like um the but like finally had a team like george what we flowers like it was so excited and i had like lani i don't like hugs but like lani doesn't care lani and my assistant georgie and my husband they like all jumped at me i don't know if you saw the video i uploaded but like he got confirmed and i just didn't know what to do everyone goes are you okay and I'm like no I'm overwhelmed and I burst in tears everyone just jumped on top of me I'm like I've never had this ever which is so weird never had that feeling of just support like that is crazy to me that means everything to me that sense of family is so nice so like it sucks that you have to remove so many people to like start fresh and see like what you actually need what what do you what are your non-negotiable what feels your boat sorry i need to stop crying because it looks stupid no you also look great i'm thanks really don't like you do when i cry but like um yeah who are your non-negotiable people what are your non-negotiable things what feels your cup who is there to celebrate your wins like look around be very like vigilant look around when you win look who's happy for you yeah and i think that on top of everything you probably learn what lots of people learn over 30 years like as their career grows as they change lifestyle as they like for better or for worse with as they do all of these different things and I think that having had that happen to you so quickly obviously there are all these amazing parts of it at the same time I can't imagine how many different like you people always say for example like um weddings bring out the worst in some people like you really notice who your friends are at weddings or like whatever it might be same with big terrible things that happen in life all of this it's like you went through so much of that up and down so quickly that I can imagine you had to move quite fast and a lot there was a lot of heartbreak around like well this is clearly not going to work like you clearly don't respond well to having a super a successful friend or you I can tell that this makes you uncomfortable or any of these things and you must have had to learn that so quickly whereas I think that most people particularly in coming out of their teens and into their 20s and into their 30s they are able to like adjust their friends over time and the ones that have the same lifestyle you're able to spend a bit more time with and then whatever it might be like someone has kids and then you see them but not as much or like whatever it might be and it's like you must have gone through that so quickly Yes, I did.

34:33Grace Beverley: So I can imagine that like all of that on top of everything, it must have just been incredibly like isolating and terrifying all at once. Correct. Isolating and terrifying. You described it perfectly. Does your day move faster than you can keep up? With new Gatorade Lower Sugar, my family and I can stay at the top of our game. No artificial flavors, sweeteners or colors, 75 % less sugar and all the electrolytes of regular Gatorade. now available nationwide and how do you look back on that general i guess bikini body guide era i think that it was such a defining era such a clear part of like the fitness industry's history i look back fondly at all the good stuff i also look back at all the stuff i'm like why did i post-op same um but how do you look back generally at the whole thing I look back um again being a perfectionist of being super critical people always say like oh if you could do anything different what could you do and I've actually never thought about it I look back I think what if I'm looking at it positively and not being such a perfectionist I think I changed so many women's lives I think that I gave women the confidence to be able to do something by themselves some a lady came up to me once and she goes you changed my life I said well not technically no you bought the guide and then you did the exercises so you changed your own life she's like you've given me this ability or sense to of knowledge and power to be able to know that I can do hard things just through the guide and I was like it's a 28 minute workout like what are you talking about she's like you don't understand she's like I never exercised before this and she's like and now I do x y and z and it was so nice I was like I think I I feel like I've genuinely changed so many women's lives and I was so glad that I cut out half the market I didn't work with men and it was just women it was so nice I empower them in so different so many different ways through every journey that I've been on whether it is in business or I recently spoke about the loss of a baby or going into a new relationship and what that I've empowered women in every single stage of my life and I love that I love that can I tell you one thing I would have done differently yes please this is something I think about a lot and I want to say it to you oh my god I'm so excited I honestly think about this a lot because you taught me one of my like biggest lessons that I've learned in I think through my career generally and in terms of like who I want to be as a person okay so I obviously when I started what the fuck what are you gonna okay so I obviously started my account I was like doing I was doing the guides I loved them I came to the meetups like you really got me into fitness like you were the first person who made fitness feel like very accessible for me as someone who constantly like the way I saw the gym genuinely is I would go to the gym for eight weeks before every summer and then I would have the summer and then I would not go to the gym for the whole rest of the year and like I'm not saying the gym is everything but I literally wouldn't move and all of this so you made a massive difference to my life now one thing I did that I am categorically not proud of and that taught me a lot about who I want to be as a person when I came out of that and started doing my own thing is I think I had this misconception that maybe not consciously but that there wasn't enough space for everyone like you were doing so amazingly and looking back this would have been like 10 years ago looking back I could 100 % say that I would have been inspired by you but also jealous by the ability of your like you'd reach such heights and all of this so I made a video about all the things that hadn't worked for me in the bikini body guide I didn't do the equivalent for all the things that had worked and I it that video got traction and it did what I was definitely hoping for that video to do aka it be a moment and people are talking about it and therefore I talk about it as well from that point I swore to myself that I would never ever ever try and stand on someone else's success again to get to a place that I wanted to get to because like as I said if I was I mean I was like 20 but at the same time I was like if I'm being honest with myself the reason I did that was to further myself at the expense of someone else and that's not authentic to me that's not who I am that's not who I want to be and I've thought about it so much it honestly taught me so much because I'm not saying like we've all done things like through our career there will have been so many things I will have released that weren't the right thing or weren't perfect or upset someone or whatever it might be like that's a given when you have such a big audience you're not going to be able to please everyone however that wasn't one of those moments like I in that moment a hundred percent did that for myself and what it I just remember after that point like even when I was like getting views and people were like you know I've found your page and I love it and like all of that I was like I can't I felt so like shit about the fact that I had got there through as I said like standing on your success through not being able to own the fact that like no you were the person who got me into this in the first place and yes I've done all this work and done all this stuff since whatever but actually like that was so unfair and that just taught me I was like it was such a vicious age of social media and I fell into it I like literally fell into the first trap which was like women need to bring each other down to go up and I'm really sorry I didn't mean it to like an actual full apology but like I genuinely like that really taught me I was like I will never again try and get to where I want to get to by bringing someone else down like it's not what I want to be it I honestly think that the biggest superpower that anyone can have is the ability to be able to reflect and apologize I think that's like everything you said I was like listen I didn't lose any sleep obviously but you're like I don't even know you did that no but and you know what maybe I did there's been tons of stuff that you know people have said over the years over bbg like I said you either yeah you either love that program and it shaped who you were or you hated it but do you know what for me weirdly just in that second I enjoyed that apology so much because I was like so many times I've been like oh why would they do that why would they say that why do they hate bbgs where they used to do it and it's just the fact that you've said I'm like I've just realized how many people have done the exact same thing as you that maybe they feel the same way more like I'm actually 100 % but like I even if they don't like as in it doesn't need to be the thing that everyone likes and I think that from what it also taught me about other people was exactly what you've just said is it's like you know you always hear the thing like you could be the juiciest peach in the world and someone's always not going to like peaches or maybe someone did like peaches once and then decided it would be a great way to get some views by talking about how they fucking hate peaches yeah but like I think that those things and like being on a platform so young put you in a position where you do make those mistakes publicly because you make big decisions and they are put out to like a bigger audience but I think that like we what we lose so easily with social media is the idea of nuance and the idea that people don't need to be for you and you still don't need to like it still doesn't need to be a vengeance or like a thing or like whatever it might be and I think that you 100 % well for me you were 100 % a victim of like tall poppy and the fact that like you were the first person to be doing those things and therefore everyone else was like oh well if she's still there that means I can't be there and so I'm gonna have to do xyz to actually get to that point which we know in general like that's not the way we build industries that's not the way we build up women that's not the way we create a future that we're like proud of and it as I said like it didn't make me feel good about myself and I think like since that point onwards I think it's what what it really taught me was that like jealousy is a very powerful tool that you can use in the right way and you can use in the wrong way I think you can use it in the right way by understanding that you're clearly inspired by someone like you clearly have aspirations to something you can clearly look at someone and be like that is what my life I want my life to look like or I want more of that success or whatever and you can go well out of your way to make sure you are well positioned to get there you can also use it the other way which is it bleeding into aspects of your life it meaning that you give up parts of your authenticity you give up parts of like who you are as a person because that's not me in real life like I'm the biggest cheerleader for everyone around me I've got such good girlfriends specifically because of that reason like I love that that's my like lifeblood but I think that that really taught me I was like anything you want and anything you see that you aspire to great like use that in a good way never let jealousy be something that like guides you in a way that like makes you lose yourself um and I can imagine that you know knowing that when you were building all of that up and you were on platforms to these tens of millions of people you were just finding your own way as well and just really working out like what life looked like as someone who was suddenly super super successful and trying to work out like what was next and everything I can imagine it would have been really hard to navigate all of that yeah and I'm sorry for the part I played in that I appreciate that I think yeah like I said it takes courage to be able to apologize but yeah no I have definitely done the same thing made plenty of mistakes and also not being loved by everyone um I don't know if it's like a just in my blood but I I like I because I love my family so much and I want everyone to feel like family it's so hard when people don't like me I'm like oh you don't like me like what I do yeah because there must be reasoning for it that's like me as a person rather than yeah I think I'm like I always say to my son when he's like just being so he's like I don't love you I said well I love me what do you mean like I think I apply that in life I'm like I don't like you I'm like well I like me like that's so interesting that you don't like me why but I think um yeah it's stuff like that that makes me kind of feel good but I'm like okay yeah it wasn't me maybe it's a you thing yeah 100 % but I think that's like reflective everywhere like sometimes things will be I always think that I'm like sometimes it is me thing sometimes it's not me thing like you can't really reason through all of it particularly with social media it takes so much color out of everything you don't really know someone as a person like you could make a judgment but you don't really know someone um but I want to talk quickly about the rise of like how some of these things since that era I think that we've had lots of different kind of fitness eras since then I worry about the rise of like skinny talk now and how I think some of the aesthetic really feels like it reflects like 2015 Instagram you know like when you would just constantly see like all the fruit and veg everywhere all over people's Instagram and like that was the thing that was like very much don't get me wrong fruit and veg is great I love fruit much but like you know what I mean like the very like cleanly only like all of this I was gonna ask like whether you worry about the return of some of like the trends from that time in terms of like you know the restriction the move to skinny rather than strong or and concentrating on aesthetics rather than necessarily like concentrating on yourself and your strength and all of that like how has your view on that evolved over time well as a personal trainer and a mom um I've never stopped worrying about it however I will be so honest if I am looking at myself a person who has always appeared and like you can see me now I'm small and very fit and a person who has always or never been on a diet and always eaten a Mediterranean diet and always eaten Greek food it's very hard for anything that comes out of my mouth to land well because someone will turn around and say easy for you to say you're like your dad you're just an athlete yeah so I really struggle to answer this is it a concern for me yes how does that come across I'm like a person who I I don't even know how to say this without me being ripped apart I'm like how do I not get stitched and get ripped apart for this all I want is for everyone to be healthy my friends like I'm like I'm the one that's like eat eat anything like what about how many calories like don't worry about that worry about your health as a person who has again like once you've lost a baby you have surgery for endometriosis so you get told that you're not able to have kids you have kids yourself all of that shit that goes out the window that whatever skinny talk whatever that thing that is that that to me that's it doesn't compute in my brain that that is even something that some would come online and talk about and it's very hard because of how small i am I get chucked into that bucket.

48:02So it's like, do you care that you're, and I have so many, so many over the last 10 years, do you think that you're promoting a negative image and it's triggering women? Me? Never. If you knew me, never. But if you see me and you don't know me, maybe. Yeah. Like, that's not my fault. And I'm just, I find it really hard to have this conversation. This is the hardest conversation I'll ever have on a podcast.

48:24Grace Beverley: No, I mean, I think I really appreciate you speaking about it. so honestly and I think it's that is your truth like as in I don't I don't say that negatively at all I say I'm genuinely I completely get you like as in I don't have the same body type as you so I won't I won't understand that in the same way but I I totally get the idea and the concept that women constantly are put into buckets that they don't necessarily put themselves in based on their appearance and based on how they present and you being in the fitness space and being small and like I understand how that can be interpreted in one way at the same time it's the career that you're doing and you're great at it and you have every right to do it and as long as your message doesn't align with that then as in doesn't align with you know toxicity or whatever it might be then you really can't do anything more and I think that's totally fair to say and I think that that's I mean that's why I like long-form content because I feel like long-form content you're actually able to get that across and you're actually able to just own the fact that like you know you might see me and assume this one thing I can't actually change that but what I can do is just make sure that my message is always this and I think that's totally fair enough and you spoke there about your experience of losing baby obviously that is one of the hardest things in the world I will happily say first of all I'm so sorry and I didn't actually know that before we've been doing the research for this but I really appreciate you talking about that openly um particularly like online and being able to you know like share that narrative and everything because um you know when I went through that I was so gobsmacked by how common it was and how little I saw anyone talk about anything online was there a reason that you decided to I guess be open about it did you always want to be open I was never open about it until maybe like a few months ago I just say silent here's my thing um so it's like the most you know it's like the most devastating thing ever however the reason that I didn't say anything is fear of judgment and like I said like exactly with the food thing it's like you look at me and like oh well that's because you're small there were so many people that oh that's because you work out or maybe if you did this it would have been different or you shouldn't have done that you would have had the exact same if you didn't work out if you were bigger if you were any of these things it's the exact same like people people will they'll lump their conclusion yeah I totally agree um I don't yeah I just don't think I was in the right space with the right people around me to be able to I didn't feel supported to be able to say anything um and I felt like yeah I would just be massively massively judged um and I was very like ashamed as well which is a weird story this background story and sorry if I'm like blackberrying about this because I never talk about it no no you but I remember seeing a psychic person and they said to me the order that you're going to have your kids is girl boy and I was like interesting they're like I see a girl and I see what she looks like they actually described my daughter perfectly and they're like and I see her holding a little boy's hand so she has a little brother and I was like that's so interesting and they said something about special eyes my husband has the most stunning eyes and all just tied in to what she said anyway I got pregnant and I remember going back to that psychic person because I found out the gender and I said that's not the order of the kids it's boy girl and she's like I remember her face she was like okay and I was like so yeah and she was like and I just and I remember getting so angry at her reaction because like you're like raging I was like that is so rude like you didn't have to say anything and I already know what you just said and then it got to 12 weeks and I was like sucked in safe like boy girl and then it got to 13 14 I'm not going to continue this story because it's like devastating the number it gets to yeah um and I had not told anyone online and then it was nothing yeah and then girl boy so I did have my daughter I scanned my when I when I was pregnant with Anna I went and got scanned every single week she's like you're back again I was like I just want to see a heartbeat I want to see the baby.

53:12She's like, every week. I was like, every single week. Every week. Yeah. So, like, that was a hard pill to swallow. And I went back to that lady and I was like, she's like, I'm so sorry. That's the first thing she said when she saw me. I was like, oh.

53:29Grace Beverley: I'm so sorry. It's truly the worst thing in the world. The worst thing in the world. Yeah. Well, I think one thing that, like, adds to it massively, as you said, like, it breaks my heart that you were worried about judgment because it's like like what is let's judge like genuinely like I there's so much stigma there's so much shame that comes with that like if something happens you know it's best that you haven't told anyone by that point because you know you don't need to explain and all of that and it's like for what like what did I do like as in genuinely you know like knowing that you didn't do anything knowing that the large majority the reasonings behind that is just didn't work out um and yeah I I think that there's an added layer on top of like you being known for health in a certain way that I've probably never even considered because that's not my USP that's not my like profile yeah that you know I actually felt a little bit of pressure to share it because I'd been so off my game for the past you know month or so when because I spoke about it about a month after it happened for me and I was like yeah I just I was like oh I feel like I need to kind of explain um and it's just so horrible that women feel that that like women feel the they feel the shame they obviously feel all the grief and the hormones and everything that's like so horrible to deal with yeah um I think just that on top of everything like I feel really sad for you that because you were known for being healthy and and there's nothing to say that you weren't the healthiest person ever like that's not what happens yeah like that's not the reality um but I just yeah I'm so sorry that you had to actually go through that and then feel that anyone would ever think anything differently of you because of that yeah no yeah I get that thank you and I'm sorry for you as well like it's just it's the hardest thing in the world I think that's um you it resonates so much when you talk about jealousy and stuff when like I remember being so jealous of everyone that could have a baby like

55:53they're like unfollowing everyone that was pregnant yeah like why do you get to be pregnant they're like people that it's so like this is this was judgy but i was like i know you party and you take drugs or you drink or like you're still smoking and you're pregnant like

56:14Grace Beverley: that's not it I never did any of that yeah and it's that like as in I don't judge you for even thinking that at all because I know that the like point that it puts you to like I remember that like after I'd been through that like when I I would like see these announcements on Instagram and I'd just be like and it's so it's so unfair because of course it shouldn't I want everyone's pregnancies to go ahead and like all of that oh my god but at the same no no and I know you think like you totally agree with that it's I would 100 % see it too like every announcement and I'd be like someone's second child for example I'd be like how come you get to have two and like I don't even like I've not even got there with one like I don't you know like I haven't been able to that hasn't happened for me and like you do just you have that yeah it is that like extreme like I would have extreme jealousy like exactly the same unfollow everyone who is pregnant unfollow everyone who just had a newborn like any of this and still now being pregnant and like having the anxiety around it and and just knowing like I even look at people who are like four weeks ahead of me and I'm like I'm so fucking jealous yeah and I'm like it just it's so when you want something so much that you can't you can't actually affect whether you get it yeah and I think that you know I I also recognize that I think I've had a much easier journey than lots of people because once you once you go through this you also start to realize how the journey that other people have which can be truly like harrowing and for years and years and years and for you know loss after loss after loss and I it's just so all-consuming and the fact that that guilt comes back on the woman like that's also one of the reasons why I decided to talk about it because I was like why am I like I'm going around the office like a shell of myself I am a shell of myself I'm going through this grief all of that like can I sit down and film a fucking video about the first five things you should do when you start a business like no all I want to do is fucking scream and literally be like this is so unfair like why don't I like why don't I get that like why didn't that happen for me like why am I going to go through this for the next however many years over and over and it's like that I remember I was actually quite surprised at the amount of people like I remember someone quite close to me I'd said I told them I was pregnant and it was like week six but they were very close to me and they didn't see that seem that excited and I was like oh you're not excited and they were like oh it's just because it's so early like I'm worried what if something goes wrong like I'm worried you're telling us so early and I was like yeah but I'm telling you early specifically so that if something went wrong I would actually want the people around me like second time round I told my friends again at six weeks and I only told them at six weeks because I was away week four and five like as in that was the only I was like this is the like I want to tell you I can't imagine going through this and the anxiety of pregnancy after loss and the like in like all of the emotions of it and the feeling and the knowing that you might like like I thought that being at the early stages of a relationship when you love someone like I thought that was vulnerability but like of course that's an element of vulnerability like the vulnerability of getting pregnant again after you've already lost a baby and knowing that like like I feel like every week now like every single week where I'm like this could be the week and just like over and over and over and it's like that's what women have to put themselves through to get to a stage of life that they're judged for not already being at and they're also judged if they're already at it's just like it's fucking hard like it's so unfair it is the most unfair yeah uh yeah that whole journey was so horrendous my I like I remember um like just even the shame of like I felt shame I don't know why but like telling my family they were like dropped to the ground like devastated like so upset but then on the other end which is so sickening to even think about now I had people in my life that literally were like hey you need to go back to work like no one knows you need to go back to work let's do an app workout stop crying that had that on the other end of the spectrum wow so it was like again that that I think that my lack of like celebrating things is like maybe because of that like those moments where you're like again you're like alone and like and not truly being understood and like empathized with yeah and I really try to separate my business from like my I would never have told my my mom will hear that for the first time like on this she wouldn't I would never tell her that I'm not one to run to my sister and my mom to tell them that sort of stuff about work it's just like I just put myself so alone in those positions um and then I also felt I feel so many things it's so this is I need to go therapy this is terrible but it's like it was almost like and I don't know if someone said it to me I just thought it it was I got pregnant so I lost the baby but it was like at least you got pregnant like some people can't get pregnant so I was scared that people were going to say but well at least you got pregnant like at least you know you can get pregnant like I'm still trying so I'm like okay don't say anything because people are actually really struggling to even get pregnant and then don't say you've lost a baby because I actually not only did I unfollow pregnant people I unfollowed people that will had had miscarriages or lost their baby in any other way or had stillborn whatever it was I unfollowed all of them it was way too triggering I was like I'm unfollowing so many people for no reason I remember getting messages being like hey you unfollowed me like is everything okay I'm like yep sorry it was someone from my stuff whoops like I was like I can't it's too triggering yeah it's wrecking with it's wrecking my mental health um and then getting pregnant with Anna that was also triggering and then I don't know if I've ever said this I I think I told one person and they got it completely wrong.

1:02:27They thought it was a problem with me. When I got pregnant with Jax, I didn't find out the gender and it got to 20 weeks and I was still on edge. So that is any indication of what happened to the first time. I was still on edge at 20 weeks and I remember going in and I got scanned again every single week. Everything was good. Jay was so excited, didn't know the gender. And we went in and I got scanned and the lady, Looked at the scan and I promise you, if you've ever, she was like, I'll be back. And I was like, oh my God.

1:03:02Grace Beverley: I would have had a full on panic attack. I, my mouth went so dry. I was like, Jay grabbed me. He's like, Kayla. I was like, don't talk to me. Don't talk to me. I remember just looking at the scars. I was like, don't talk to me. I'm waiting for this lady to come back. She came back. She's like, okay, baby's heart's good. I was like, okay. Like, we're alive. she's like but now it could be nothing or it could be a lot of things she's like now do me a favor before I talk to you about this I want none of you both of you do not get on your phones and do not research what I'm about to tell you I was like okay great this is awesome she's like your baby has a mass in their brain I'm seeing a black like like a mass so it's either a tumor or it's fluid now if it's just tumor this isn't good um and if it's fluid we're just gonna hope it goes down i said okay and how long is it going to take to go down she goes if it's fluid it will go down over the next eight weeks i'm 20 weeks pregnant at this point it's going to go down in eight weeks time another doctor comes in and says to me trying to be funny saying hey um if it doesn't go down then we can actually fly you to another country to deal with it because you're way past any ability to be able to do anything with it here i was like are you talking is this supposed to be a funny joke like what are you talking about what anyway so for eight weeks oh my god i had to go get scanned every week to see if this black hole in my child's brain who I couldn't work out if it was a poor girl was going to go down then I get a call at 26 weeks saying hey if it makes you feel any better the gender that you're having it's kind of common in that gender and I literally said this is going to be a boy sounds like a boy this is only a mess only a man would do this to me exactly like i am i said that's jay but me and jay had not still looked up what this was at 28 weeks they're like hey it's gone down so it looks like it's fluid we're just going to continue to monitor it got to the birth and the fluid was still there but it was like next to almost nothing but i had to go from 20 weeks and And I was like, I am not.

1:05:34Oh, my God, the mental strength. The thing was, I was like, it was so sad because I was like, maybe I'm not meant to have a boy. I remember thinking, maybe I'm not meant to have a boy ever. Like, there's got to be something wrong with me and boys. Maybe I'm just like. Yeah. I don't know. Anyway, so that was my experience with having kids. And then it's just so hard to hear people online be like, like if I say I have endo, they're like, yeah, but you had kids. Like, easy for you.

1:05:57Grace Beverley: I'm like. Right. Really? Okay. Well, that's the thing. I also like one thing that I definitely exercise now when I um see other pregnant women because I used to get so seethingly jealous and I now when I look at other pregnant women in my mind I'm like you don't know how many years they went through to get this like you don't because I always think that as well like now I have a visible bump and I'm like going around I'm like this is kind of stupid but I go around be like I hope I'm not upsetting anyone like I hope no one sees me and it ruins their day because I know that that would happen for me and then I'm also like but if that's the case for me and I've been through shit to get here I also know what other people went through like I'm looking at a pregnant woman I don't know how what they went through to even get there and all of that and so I just that's like the approach I give but it is it's I mean it's so complex and I I'm like just now reducing the anxiety and I know I'm not in the clear and I know there is probably no such thing as the clear and I actually had this terrible midwife appointment the other day that's actually so comical it's comical because it's so bad and she said, she was like, are you struggling with anything this pregnancy and I said, I'm struggling a bit mentally because I lost my last baby and I just I have OCD so I fixate on things a lot and I room and I and I'll stay up for hours like on one specific it doesn't even need to be rational like whatever it might be I'll convince myself of things like all of this she goes well how are you dealing with that and I said well I you know I'm convincing myself over and over that everything's fine that we've been scanned every single week and like she's measured perfectly there's been no problems we had all the genetic testing like all of this I just tell myself over and over like everything's going to be fine like large like large percentage probability and she goes well yeah some people have perfect pregnancies and then they lose their babies at the end and I go sorry I go no I'm saying that's unhelpful for me to think about I try and who hyper fixate something yeah unhelpful yeah so I was like so I try and think about the opposite I'm well aware like I'm a very rational I'm a smart person like I know the reality but I go but i will go and you'll have to sedate me like as in like i will go insane so i i go um so it's not helpful for me to think about that so what i do i was thinking maybe she didn't understand i was like so what i do is i tell myself over and over here is all the information you have all of it is positive yeah and then i she was like yeah well some people have really troublesome pregnancies and they don't write out some of them have really great pregnancies and they walk in here we're in the hospital they walk in here they don't walk out with a baby and i go i'm just gonna need you to stop saying this right now i was like i'm out i i'm i was literally so like so god smacked and i'm literally only now this was like two weeks ago i'm only now like thinking just being like sorry you just have to laugh like you have to laugh my husband walked in because it was when they'd like pulled you aside to because they do that in the nhs in england they're like you know is everything safe within your relationship all of this like they pull you apart and um he walked in he was like afterwards he was like what were you seething about as I walked in and I told him he was so livid he was literally like what the fuck like literally what the fuck and it shows like this is why you know you really have to protect your peace when you're pregnant after loss like you really have to make sure that like every like everything you're doing is like as you say i don't even i don't read things about anything i've asked people not to send me their stories anymore as much as it like breaks my heart like i want to be here for you at the same time like just give me the next 20 or so weeks like just let like i just i need to be able to do this oh why'd you make me share my thing with you i'm stressing no that's fine i also like as in it's unavoidable i also still google things i also like all of that like i'm well aware it's an exercise in mental strength um I'm that lady but yeah literally don't you worry these could go wrong anyway but like as in I also have many people like I have two people around me who had later losses and I I I I know everything that can happen I'm more like all I can do is like my mind is a castle there is a big fat fucking moat and like all I can tell myself over and over is like everything's been perfect so far everything will be perfect like all of this and then I mean I'll have nightmares I have all of this thing I'm just like it's just it is the experience like it is a fucking mental I know pregnancy anyway is a mental battle especially if you have anxiety pregnancy after loss there is nothing that will require more mental strength I don't think absolutely I 100 % agree the thing is like and then just to add more fuel to the fire when your baby's born healthy and it will be born healthy you'll be fine you then you go are you breathing are you okay like everything like that's the thing I know that's why I'm concentrating so hard on like building the mental strength because I thought I was a mentally strong person and I do think I am at the same time like the exercises I have to do with myself over and over to be like you physically cannot think this way otherwise you are going to go into like an actual psychosis like you're or you are literally going to as I say have to be sedated like you physically cannot be in this headspace and so it is like that just that exercise over and over and over of just being like no I need to but this is so good because it's setting you up for when your baby is born you will never not stress your baby is your number one yeah so it's like you'll never not stress being able to have these tools and this is actually a really powerful thing to talk about if you can like harness those mental tools that make you stay sane during pregnancy and continue them on because you need them for the rest of that child's life the rest of your life you will always be mom on a bad foot you will always be mom yeah you will always worry like my mom will still ring my dad and be like the kids are coming over like where where the kids not our kids I'm her child a little girl like she will always say the kids are coming over and that's me she's 60 something years old so yeah like it's just like that's such good prep for the rest of your life not only do you have to do that prep but like just remember like who you are grace you are not only a person you're a mom but you're a business owner like you're an entrepreneur you have all these other things that you are doing you are going to have to you're going to have to have a like a mental case for this the child but also the other things that your children like your babies your businesses they're your way of thinking this is a whole different way of thinking the baby absolutely and speaking about jealousy the one i think the thing i'm mainly jealous of is people who have a calm first pregnancy i have a calm second pregnancy and things come up as they come up but they don't like all their data is not based on everything being torn apart every time and like i i think my mind really would have liked that like i think that i would have been the type of person who really would have benefited from that as someone who's already quite neurotic um but it wasn't the cards i was dealt so it's fine it's fine yeah all right ladies when you've done the work you want your hydration to do the same introducing new gatorade lower sugar now with no artificial flavors sweeteners or colors and 75 less sugar and all the electrolytes of regular Gatorade now available nationwide and before we end I really really really want to speak to you about your reacquisition of sweat because you sold this company for was it 400 million a lot of money a fucking load of money a hell of a lot of money a few years ago you made the decision recently to reacquire it what was behind that decision this would be the first time I ever talk about that experience and it's been an experience that is so different for me from any other experience that I've had in my life every other experience that I've had in my life big experiences with business I've always never celebrated I've always never stopped and reflected hey like was that an awesome move who's around me to celebrate this and for me this final this feels like the final piece of a puzzle and it almost feels like starting again it's all mine with my vision my team and I'm so excited to be able to like not view it as a startup again but like be able to just do what I want without and with celebration as well and was there ever part of you because as you said lots of people go towards exit as like the main goal and I think I used to think about things like that like five years ago and have since massively changed my way of thinking because I'm like if I aim towards that I don't aim towards anything good with the companies yeah like as in like that's not how you build companies with purpose or in the direction that you want to or with company I was literally would told myself over and over and over again like I'm working like this but I'm working like this towards exit in a completely unmaintainable way like a way that was killing me yeah and so I stopped doing that and started seeing the businesses as things that I would be happy to run forever which I now totally agree with because I built it that way but was there ever part of you that in the original sale thought okay well now I don't ever need to work again and therefore in order to reacquire it you kind of need to go back into the you know back into the fire the original one well kind of from the original having that feeling and then thinking well I need to go back into this and I never had that though I was always in it like I never Sure, because you never fully like departed.

1:15:57No, it was still all on me. So that's why it really didn't make sense. And like, there's not, I want this to be a story of like, that was the best thing ever. And I was able to step back and really like, you know, focus. But it wasn't like, again, perfectionist person that wants to be in it all the time. I recently went to New York City and I ran into Ben Francis from Dream Shark. And it was so interesting to speak to him. I just loved what he said. like it wasn't much but he just said I would never sell Gymshark I love that I love it so I just want to be as big as possible I'm not looking at selling it and I was like dude I love that so much he's like I love this business I'm so proud of it I never want to sell it sorry if I'm like

1:16:40Grace Beverley: if you you better not sell like um the way that he said it he was like no but that's the thing I think that again it's one of those things it's like investment it's like all of these different things there's like a gold standard for what you do like the blueprint for what you do when you have a company and if it's a consumer company I mean same with the tech company actually but as long as it's not a lifestyle business quote-unquote which is generally seen as a actually quite a derogatory term then you should be aiming to get to a sale like that is seen as success like exit is fully seen as like the made it moment within this industry so there's no wonder so many people I've had multiple people come on this podcast and say that selling their business was the worst decision they've ever had.

1:17:22I've never heard anyone say it's good. Have you had anyone say this is the best decision that's ever happened to me?

1:17:26Grace Beverley: I've had people talk about the physical feeling when like it just happened. But I also think that there's two different types of businesses we're talking about there. The people who built and exited and had that feeling, I think they built a business for exit. exactly whereas I think it's very hard to mix building a business for what you and your vision see as the ideal business in a space solving a certain problem and to build that to a point where you think that someone else can take that and control it fully or you control it and someone else owns it like as I said that's how I saw things five or so years ago mainly because I wasn't building myself I wasn't creating a workplace for myself or a day-to-day for myself that I could even maintain at all so of course I needed to think it was going to end in two years you know like that was my only option whereas since changing that to be like what if I were to build this there's a um actually a concept called infinite game I can't remember where originally heard it it's definitely it's like one of the original like startup books um but it's like the idea if you build something for infinite so you could do it forever and you would want to do it forever you're actually much more likely to build a business that's very exitable and that's very that's a that you would actually enjoy exiting or you would enjoy working there and it's actually probably just because you have a great substitute option aka keeping that business forever living off it forever it being profitable all of those things versus building a business where you're like oh I'm going to run this into the ground over and over but it's fine because we're on track to exit yeah there's definitely two different types of people and right now in this era of apps and businesses people are building to sell so they are getting that feeling of the sale and they're so smart it's like it's all the tech stuff it's stuff that isn't front facing but for me it's like if I want to sell I'm selling me so it's it doesn't feel you just don't get that feeling and I feel crap because so many people who are building those businesses to exit like how'd it feel I'm like shit yeah but it's it is different it's a different business it's a different person yeah absolutely and I want people to have that moment where they build up this business I'm never saying don't do that but I've never spoken to anyone who owns a personal brand or a business that has their name attached and gone that was the best experience of my life because what you are doing is you're sitting in front of people who are trying to get the lowest bid possible for you so they are berating you putting you down saying why you're it's a it's a it feels like the worst interview of your life it's like you is the only job in the world and you need that job and they're just going to say anything and you're just you're just taking it yeah and you're like I just don't think that's fair and they're like why because you know yeah and it's like and also again the first time I'm dealing with men so I'm like oh I really hate this experience yeah it hasn't been nice it's similar to investment rounds actually I sometimes feel within investment rounds and we've been lucky enough to get multiple term sheets so that we've been able to select you know who we've had but I do often feel like it's that toxic it is like how can we put this person as low as possible so they feel like their only option is for us to invest and then when you think about it you're like but why would you want to invest if it was so shit yeah like if you thought I was so shit and you thought this was so shit like why would you want to invest but obviously that they're relying on that not thought not really coming into your head and it's just like there are certain businesses I totally believe that they might be that they're not exitable and they're not built in a way to be exitable for anyone and for anyone to actually enjoy that there are others that are perfect for that and I think it's about the way you build it and if you build it in one way and try and do the other route I feel like that tension is never going to be resolved and how do you feel now like waking up every day being like I fully like that's my company so happy it is honestly the best feeling in the whole world like the freedom in that and there is so much that I haven't said and so much backstory and it doesn't matter yeah because it's all gone yeah and it's just me now I just I am so genuinely happy and I do want to remind people that if you are listening to this and you're thinking she doesn't know what the fuck she's talking about or she can't remember it it's this that I was so young like I'm turning 35 we're trying you're trying to rewind 15 years ago like we're doing the maths I am a young kid and there is no there is barely Instagram and then I'm suddenly having to speak to investors when I'm 27 and I'm pregnant and I haven't told anyone that I've lost a baby and I'm trying to be everywhere and everything at once and I'm trying to like it's absolutely the most insane journey and I'm only just now on the other end being like I'm speaking to people that have exited and that have grown this business they're 40 and 50 60 yeah i'm 34 but this is why like this race to doing everything as young as possible that we've kind of programmed ourselves into and i've definitely contributed to by doing certain things and being in certain places and all of that it's like faster and younger are those things they're faster and younger then they don't equal better like there's never been that reality and yet it feels more glamorous so it feels better and it's like actually you're not suited at this time to be sitting around over call i know i'm not like just not like it's the type of person that builds that business is probably not the type of person who can do that absolutely i could honestly talk to you for years and years sadly we don't have years and years but before we end i would like to ask you what the best piece of advice is that you've ever been given

1:23:02um i actually didn't come prepared with that what is the best advice someone has ever given me also anytime anyone asks me that I'm like oh never been given advice no one's ever spoken to me someone asked me that recently and James asked me it and I said the same thing and I still think it is the best best piece of advice is that you're under no obligation to be the same person that you were yesterday like you have and what that means is and obviously didn't have enough time to answer with James but exactly what it says you don't have to be who you were yesterday you can change you can be a different person you can do a different thing you can pivot in what you want to do you can change your mind you can say no you can leave that relationship like you can then do whatever it is that you want to do you don't have to go in the loop in the cycle I always say to people whenever they come up to me with the same problem with their partner he's done this again like you're in a loop you are the same person that you were yesterday you're in a loop and if you're in a loop the same lessons will come back to you over and over again and maybe in a different form so it's almost like shift change don't be that same person I remember remember the day I don't know where I saw who said it whatever it was where the advice came from but I remember the day that it applied to me and I had heard it and it was the next day and I remember it was like my brain just like went different I just I can't explain it it was I was one person and then suddenly I was just someone else it was like I was in a something stimulation I was like wait I don't think anything that I used to think someone said something that triggered my brain to be like I don't want to be here I don't like this what am I doing here this is weird and everything changed from that day onwards and I'm just like from that day was such a learning for me and I can't explain that day to you but it was just a day where I was like hmm I'm different and I don't know what it is I don't I cannot explain someone if you're listening to this explain the phenomenon of just like the wall being lifted off your eyes is that what people say it's just it was a nuts feeling so yeah you're at no obligation to be the same person you were yesterday i think that's such good advice thank you so much you've been amazing i love

1:25:08Grace Beverley: this so much i feel like it's been like i cried way too many times yeah actual i need to go therapy for it so bad don't we all though

1:25:38We'll see you next time.

1:25:53Grace Beverley: Now with no artificial flavors, sweeteners or colors, and 75 % less sugar than regular Gatorade. New to the fridge, all the Gatorade electrolytes you love. Gatorade lowers sugar. Is it in you? Now available nationwide.