The Sophie Tea Story: How To Turn Your Passion Into A Phenomenon By Not Playing It Safe

0:00Does it ever feel like you're a marketing professional just speaking into the void? But with LinkedIn ads, you can know you're reaching the right decision makers, a network of 130 million of them, in fact. You can even target buyers by job title, industry, company, seniority, skills, and did I say job title? See how you can avoid the void and reach the right buyers with LinkedIn ads. Spend$250 on your first campaign and get a free$250 credit for the next one. Get started at linkedin.com slash campaign. Terms and conditions apply. If you're a maintenance supervisor at a manufacturing facility and your machinery isn't working right, Grainger knows you need to understand what's wrong as soon as possible.

0:38So when a conveyor motor falters, Grainger offers diagnostic tools like calibration kits and multimeters to help you identify and fix the problem. With Grainger, you can be confident you have everything you need to keep your facility running smoothly. Call 1-800-GRAINGER, click grainger.com, or just stop by. Grainger, for the ones who get it done.

1:02Hi friends, Grace from the Working Hard podcast here. When you're stretching every dollar, a little goes a long way and Walmart Business is here to help. They make it easy to order what you need from tech and cleaning supplies to everyday essentials, all at low prices and with helpful tools like spend tracking and tax exempt purchasing for eligible organizations. Because when your operations are smooth, your impact can be bigger. Visit business.warmart.com to get started.

1:34what is up i'm grace beverly and welcome back to working hard the podcast shape guidebook on how to improve your own life and achieve what you actually dreamed of doing because life's too short for boring podcasts and bad advice what is up and welcome back to working hard today's guest is someone i have wanted to have on for so long it's sophie t if you have been anywhere near Instagram or TikTok in the last few years, you will know Sophie's bold and colourful art, which she's shared with her millions of followers and sells out around the world. Now, we've actually never had an artist artist on the podcast, which feels a little bit embarrassing to admit after over 100 episodes.

2:09But what I love most about Sophie is that she really didn't take the safe path in any of her art and the way that she's monetised her art. She didn't go to art school, she was snubbed by the art world, and yet now she has one of the biggest art empires in the UK. I feel like at the moment the creative industries are going through a really tough time. There is so much chat about what AI means for artists and I feel like someone like Sophie is proof that art that connects with people isn't going anywhere. So if you've ever wondered what happens if you don't follow the traditional path or how to build a career as a creative and the power of storytelling, this is the episode for you.

2:43Also halfway through this episode there was a kind of freak thunderstorm. So just please bear that in mind because it suddenly started being like, like there's blue skies outside now. which is very confusing because halfway through it went pitch black outside and there was lightning and thunder so it got a bit witchy hope that's okay and before we get into my chat with sophie just a reminder to follow the podcast wherever you are listening to it on every single one day i release a new episode to help you improve your life in some way and inspire you whether that's mindset or health or work or so many other things and also if you're not already come and join us on instagram at at working hard pod i share clips i share giveaways there's a lot of like not just behind the scenes stuff but real like deep dives into topics on the episode and interesting research and interesting articles that you should read it's designed to be the kind of antidote to mindless doom scrolling so come join us over there because you're missing out

3:36sophie t are you currently more working hard or hardly working like it was so expected but still being an artist is the epitome of both i think some of my most exhausting days have been where i'm literally just stood on my chair stood on my chair sat on my chair looking at a canvas and like just thinking but like no one else thinks that i'm doing anything but like there's lots going on yeah so it kind of always is part of your life and what you're doing yeah it's it's a constant job when you have a business i think yeah Yeah, absolutely. And because you're doing, I think you're one of the first people that I've seen that's like really clear that you're doing both sides of that.

4:16And that's what I really loved about watching your journey has been like, you are an artist, absolutely. You're also a businesswoman and you're showing like both of those sides and showing the journey of it all. And I think that it's really easy to want to look at art as like, I don't know, not devoid of business, but like the other side of it, if that makes sense. And so being able to see both of those sides tied together and really watch your growth has been amazing but it must also mean that you're like working on two completely different sides of your brain at the same time 100 but actually I feel like being an artist is um being an entrepreneur in its most pure form we have to essentially sell ourselves but mainly sell something that no one really needs and that's like that's hard um yeah and for the business side of it I have not in the past spoken so much about the business side because I feel like even commercially as an artist to sell work no one really wants to buy from someone who thinks who they think is like good at business you know you don't want to be like ripped off by an artist but actually I do have my head screwed on with the business side of things I study business and through pure survival I've had to like have my fingers on the pulse about what's going on in the back end of my business to be able to sustain myself as an artist like it's expensive yeah no absolutely and I think that that's what so many people love about your journey too is like it is that transparency it's not you kind of pretending being like oh I guess you could buy it if you really wanted yeah this is also a business and this is my job and like this is what I'm doing and we can enjoy both of those things like you can buy my art and hopefully get some enjoyment out of that and at the same time like I can run a business and continue being an artist and make more of this art and be able to experiment and all of that and it's not I don't know it doesn't lack the transparency of kind of like pretending those things aren't related which I love oh I appreciate that um because I think especially on social I'm always walking this very thin line of like you know you're curating an image aren't you um and I always think that I try to keep the image that I put across online as close to my reality honestly just because it's exhausting to try and pretend to be someone you're not honestly um but yeah I appreciate you saying that because like yeah it is a business at the end of the day and I have a team and we've got a product to sell and I really want to change the world and I believe I'm going to be the biggest artist in the world like I know I am like I am and you've got to be good at business to make that happen absolutely and and marketing and all the things that kind of go into that yeah you didn't go down the traditional route though you didn't go to art school so when did you first like pick up a paintbrush well I always loved painting at school um but I remember even my art teacher was like so if I know great at art but um have you considered a career in something other than art and I think that was always drilled into me so I did a business degree at uni still like painted as a hobby but not really I did it at like school and I randomly um you know that like holiday that you go on before you like start like your corporate job yes scheme well I remember my grad scheme was at Atos I would have been an analytical consultant which seems so hilarious now that I imagine being a consultant I'd be like I don't know YOLO do it um I'd pray for that thank you um and I that travel trip was India and there was a hostel with loads of graffiti all over the wall and I was running out of money because I was like a skint student and I just randomly asked the manager if I could paint in return for a free stay and they said yeah and it was the first time I'd like properly painted a finished piece since I was at school and honestly it was just one of those moments I was like I've decided to be an artist like this is the this is the thing that happens in films and like yeah and I remember emailing my grad scheme like yeah I've decided like I've had this eureka moment like you know my my um life's goal is to become an art they were like yeah we don't care we've got someone else thank you so much goodbye yeah um so yeah just like that I was an artist and I started out you know I did google like how do you um become one um and it was try and get gallery representation um so I you know pulled together a like small portfolio of work and did approach a few galleries I was obviously I was rejected because kind of I was shit and secondly like I had absolutely no experience and didn't know what to do but I put that picture that I painted in India I remember it was like a multicolored cow and I put that on Facebook and my mum was like oh I didn't realize you could paint like that Sophie and then my mum's friend Joanne was like cool love this Sophie and then like I just saw more comments coming in like a friend from uni messaged me like oh can you like paint my cat in like blue colors and I was like hmm maybe there's some money in this like okay the Facebook moms have helped the Facebook moms honestly it's just been so it's just been such incremental growth but I think the interesting thing that I identified very early on was that there was a market for original artwork that sat on social media that wasn't being met in the fine art world and my entire journey has been about bridging that gap and honestly through being not accepted for many years into that fine art world and even like literally downstairs I was just overworking a conversation there's like some guy that works for an auction house and I'm not sure whether I'll just say like I'm not sure whether you know like what the art world like the industry is like but an artist would be represented by a gallery a gallery takes 50 commission that's industry 50 yeah that's industry standard so like initially i was like i'd rather just like obviously just keep all the money and then just sell to the facebook moms grace do you know what i mean like 100 she did a business degree yeah makes sense thank you so much and then so i just kept doing that but now like this this bridging the gap which was my ultimate goal i actually like these galleries these auction houses artists have the power now like we can sell directly to our customer on social bypass any of these entities and also command bigger prices and like we don't have to we don't have to get the approval of establishment anymore it's a new game and social media is you know responsible for that but it's a fascinating place to be right now as an artist yeah and i think it's it's so it's very related to both what's happened in the music industry but also what's happened in like the e-commerce industry so like what used to happen for clothes for example take tala it used to be you would have to sell to wholesalers or retailers yeah that was the only way you could get customers so you'd get as many wholesale accounts as possible and then that's how you'd grow and then maybe you'd have your own store but you wouldn't it wouldn't be direct to consumer online yeah whereas essentially what you did is you started up what year would it have been approximately that was 2016 yeah so pretty actually pretty much when d2c brands direct to consumer brands were starting to take off but like pretty early on as well in this like boom and doing that as direct to consumer and like building your own audience and doing it that way is very like it's very pioneering it's not what was happening in any side of any industry so it's amazing that you've been able to build that up in that way and kind of follow that different path i will say it was pioneering but i did not have a choice so like although I'd like to say yes I was brave in that respect like there was no other way and like I had to like pay my rent and buy dinner at the end of the day do you know what I mean so I like it was never like a bigger strategic decision I've always just like had to survive and like done what I needed to do I will say like a pioneering move of mine was introducing payment plans to the art world which is still it's a bit more commonplace now especially in fashion um but we were the first to do that I remember I had a Squarespace website and like I was like clicking around and like one of the like products on it you could like do a magazine subscription it was like 199 I was like what have I just changed that to like 100 pounds and then I offered the artwork and then like the format was already in place so I said i'll buy it through this and it will come out as a direct debit every single month and now still 80 of our customers buy through an installment plan that's so interesting yeah and what you've really done there as well is like break down the barriers to art which is as you say it's not something people need i mean we could argue against that i think art and culture is very much something we all need as humans to live happy lives but yeah it's not it's not a kind of essential good yeah and therefore it being that makes it more expensive because it means there's less kind of supply all of these things but at the same time it being more expensive and it being not essential is like hard to sell it like it's a difficult product to sell so being able to like lower that barrier and being able to put it in a position where it's like you want this and there are other things you want that you don't need i'm going to make it a lot easier for you to be able to get your hands on this is, yeah, I mean, it's, you can sell your study business.

13:58It's very, like, it's so, I feel like the way you've done art and the way you've kind of combined art and being commercial and putting these two things together and being able to, like, get people to invest in something like art that they might not otherwise be doing until they have a lot more disposable income is really, really impressive. but I want to know as well how you kind of went from that first the painting the wall in India yeah all the way through to kind of where you are now which is selling out collections online and having some crazy insane launches online because that's there's a big gap there and I'd love to know like the main pivotal points okay um um gosh 10 years it's been which is crazy I always used to tell the story that like oh yeah I'm new to being an artist and all of a sudden now I'm not yeah um so there's been a few pivotal points I'd say introducing installment plans um went from me honestly working for myself to be able to employ three people um I and what were those people doing for I love that you asked me this question because people ask me this question all the time like at our height we had 16 employees everyone was like what were they doing and I'm like it's just a business it's a business yeah of course it is like I mean customer service sales um and honestly just tidying up after me was the third role for that initial three um as things have progressed we've got supply chain finance ops um alex my amazing ea um i've got a ceo now um which was an essential move for me actually the hiring staff was a pivotal moment but i've always like seen it as being like so important because like the entire goal of my business and it seems very self-indulgent but it actually is so commercially viable for us is to keep me in a creative space is to make sure that all I am doing is thinking about driving the art forward like yes there are the business side of things which means we have to survive but like this is actually why I don't typically like talk about the business side of things because um at the core of what we're doing I'm an artist do you know what I mean um I've I've realized that many times along the way and forgotten it many times along the way and come back to it and had this moment I'm like obviously like I've worked that out in day one um another pivotal moment for me um was getting a gallery on carnaby street um that actually happened in the peak of the pandemic in 2020 the first one that we had was this amazing three-story bright pink shot on the corner of foobert street i actually got a absolute bargain because a I'm not going to pretend that I paid full price for it like it was a lottery win for me it really was um and that for me was a chance to be like yes I'm an Instagram artist online but like it was my stamp of approval and I really needed that I've always had like a bit of a chip on my shoulder about like being an Instagram artist and like so to this day I'm like am I like a good painter and a good artist or am I just really fucking good at making videos do you know what I mean like I always have that in the back of my head um but yeah getting that gallery really solidified me as a bit more of a household name and also a bit more of a trustworthy source because like you know the art is expensive and like how else can I command value you need to showcase your worth and being able to do that with a gallery when I all you know didn't have representation from like mainstream galleries was a very important step and that really like you know pushed my business forward having said that I never saw that gallery because I was stuck in Sydney I'm not sure whether you know this but like I moved to Sydney in 2020 I say moved I was meant to go on holiday to sydney for seven days and escalated quickly yeah and i arrived and the day i arrived the international border shut in sydney yeah it was wild and i was with someone and i had a decision to like basically stay or not and i don't know whether you're across what happened with the borders in sydney but they literally were like nah no one's leaving no was coming in so that entire two years of having that gallery on Connerby Street I only saw it on Instagram no that's so sad I know it is actually really sad because it was such a moment for me and a moment that I'm really proud of but um I'm sure I've seen a bit about the way you talk about your success as well like I struggle with taking a beat and being proud of myself for certain things and I like wanted to have that and yeah I wasn't able to experience that but you know what like it was fantastic my team ran it and it was beautiful I just want to say about how there also congratulations on your shop thank you amazing Barnaby Street girlies yeah we love that I'm actually not on Barnaby Street anymore I had to shut it down it's just so expensive in red I can't do it um but interestingly like the way the retail landscape has changed um it was really such a beneficial time for me because do you remember how like people used to share like angel wings and like yes in front of stuff yeah like Paul Smith store LA exactly like our Carnaby Street gallery I knew that that was a trend and I just made sure that it was the most instagrammable plays you've ever seen in your entire life like everything there was art in it obviously but every single section was for Instagram and like that era like really blew us up now I mean we had the galleries galleries around Connaby Street for five years now I see like Gen Z's coming into my gallery and like taking a picture of the corner of the floor with like the exposure right down you're like I'm not prepared for this and I'm like honey you need to tag me for this to make me this commercially viable so you know and that was a huge ego thing for me like it was great for me to be able to do that and it served a place in my business it never made any money but it was a marketing expense for me but when that became not viable anymore pulling the plug on it was was difficult and I've been through lots of ebbs and flows in my business you know we blew up during COVID people were just looking at their blank walls and it was an amazing time of art bite and I was just in Sydney where nothing was really locked down painting so much and then shipping it right back to the UK like to mention before I had 16 people in my team a massive warehouse in Sydney and office in London a gallery like it was excessive and we kind of scaled up for that but you know I don't I'm not sure how old you are but when I was like 28 I was like I'm invincible all left got to do it's like plug more people into my business and then like it will just keep growing and then like it it it didn't that was that was really difficult and um scaling back from that has is one of my most proud points of what I've been able to achieve and I want to go into that because I think that's a really important thing to talk about because businesses don't just grow and I think people think in their minds like oh will you reach this If you're a custodial supervisor at a local high school, you know that cleanliness is key and that the best place to get cleaning supplies is from Grainger.

21:58Grainger helps you stay fully stocked on the products you trust, from paper towels and disinfectants to floor scrubbers. Plus, you can rely on Grainger for easy reordering, so you never run out of what you need. Call 1-800-GRAINGER, click grainger.com, or just stop by. Granger, for the ones who get it done.

22:49What's up, Grace from the Working Hour Podcast here, and I want to tell you about something exciting. You're watching every dollar, and Walmart business helps you stretch each one. From office supplies to snacks and cleaning gear, you'll get everyday low prices, plus easy bulk ordering and fast delivery. And with tools like spend tracking and multi-user accounts, staying organized is simple. Save time, money, and hassle at business.walmart.com. It's free to sign up. milestone and it's always up from here yeah and sadly that's not the case and sadly some businesses aren't made to be high growth and some aren't made to be high profit and some aren't made all of these different things but it's tough and it's a tough mental game but i first want to talk about the fact that a lot of these decisions you made like opening up a gallery on carnaby street or like just generally like the payment plans like the way you do things they've not necessarily been playing it safe and they've not necessarily been the way that other people have done them in your space so I'm really interested as to where you got that I guess either way you got inspiration or where you got the confidence to generally do things differently to how they were being done that's a brilliant question I fully don't know the answer to that I think that I operate quite naively in the art world I will say that like I I I know myself very well and I know that I I'm really only motivated if I've just got like a massive thing going on and like that's not healthy by any like stretch of the imagination but like I don't know my appetite for risk is high I I do know that but I just love it I just love the chaos I love I thrive in uncertainty I also believe that the way we're doing things and this change I'm implementing in the art world needs to happen I recognize some things about some elitism in the art industry and what I what I want my legacy to be is about democratizing access to the arts and I don't believe that's been done in our generation and I can't copy or mimic what's been done in the past and art like by virtue of being art is about like pushing boundaries and um really making people like think or feel uncomfortable or like figuring out new ways of doing stuff so like yeah I feel like what I'm doing I mean I've got like so many insecurities about like my art and like I'm not a good enough painter and I'm not good enough this and I do have a point to this I'll get to it eventually but in the past artists that have like been like generational um icons have never done things in a way that people have done things in the past like they've always been looked down upon um even impressionism like you know these new eras of art that always come through that they're always different to the last and i I was thinking about like what defines art for this generation and social media obviously is is huge and I said about my insecurities about just being good at making videos but isn't art about connecting to people isn't art about breaking down barriers and allowing people and giving people permission to be involved in that case like aren't i doing that so fabulously in our era and i guess the confidence to not play things safe comes from like if you like artists that have like stand the test of time never have in history so like that's that's fine yeah i like that as an approach as well because i think that there's always this like perceived risk when it comes to not playing it safe and what you're essentially saying is it's the opposite the risk actually is coming from playing things safe because if you're playing things safe you're not likely doing anything different and therefore like you know by doing something different and by taking a risk and by not playing it safe you're basically putting a stake in the ground and being like this is what I'm gonna do it might not work but like this is I know that I'm going to do something different yeah thank you for so

27:39but I guess for anyone listening to this who whether they're in the art world or not is naturally someone who plays it safe more but knows that they should kind of take more risks in their career or their their kind of trajectory in general what would you recommend to them to be able to gain that confidence to be able to actually do that I think overall no one actually cares what you're doing I think that is a huge learning like I'm just going to use a very random example but I had a nose job when I was like 22 right yeah I was so conscious about not having one for so long because I didn't want to be known as the girl who had the nose job I wanted to be known as the girl who was the artist right I had it I was like oh no no one cares no one cares yeah just take the risk do the thing like follow like what you believe to be right for you and then like get on with your life yeah like so I think to pull that back to confidence like we all have it within ourselves and like being authentically yourself like is risky and can seem scary but actually like everyone has this internal battle with themselves so like just do it and like as we were saying before it does feel like the real risk is not following the path that you think is made for you because you're worried about other people because at the end of the day it doesn't affect them yeah and I I think this with my career a lot too just because when I was starting on Instagram it was so embarrassing because it just was like so far from like what people were doing yeah and every there have been so many things I've done since that feel embarrassing like sometimes when I'm posting I'm like yeah there are people from school who follow me I'm just like oh they're supposed to be like oh that's nice and I just at the same time it's like I don't know if you spend any more time thinking about those people you're spending less time thinking about yourself and your trajectory which sounds like narcissistic but it's kind of like okay well if this is me making a decision for me in my life and my trajectory in my career surely what it does for me is the important question not what other people think of it and i just think there have been so many people who've come on this podcast and be like i did this one random thing or this one really embarrassing thing and that's what led to xyz and fear is just holding so many of us back from them yeah and i'm still coming up to those fears constantly every day i'm like we need to push past the cringe like it's so embarrassing oh my god and it's so embarrassing.

30:08Like, I'm literally going up to someone in a charity shop every time I go in, I'm like, what am I doing? Like, oh, Doc, she doesn't want to see me. She doesn't want to be on camera. But actually, the bigger impact of that, just stop it, just, like, push through it. Yeah. Yeah, like, yeah. God, it's so cringy, isn't it? No, but, like, I feel like everything worth doing is on the other side of doing something difficult or cringe or that's going to make you feel like, oh, I'm going to make you nervous, like, whatever it might be. Yeah. and I feel like too many people are held back by the fear of being perceived and it's like you're going to be perceived anyway and you might end up being perceived as someone who's done nothing because you did nothing because you were so worried about like everyone's going to think some shit anyway yeah like no matter what you do no matter how palatable you try and be to everyone yeah you're constantly there's going to be someone who thinks you're embarrassing yeah so you might as well be embarrassing and also have the career you want about two years ago I was like making art and content and being like trying to be like yeah doing these videos that were like me being like cute but also painting and then my videographer at the time was like Sophie like no offense but like can you just like be yourself because like I reckon it'll translate better on camera and then I like just stopped putting my makeup on for videos because I felt like when I had my makeup on I was like even like had a bit of a mask on or trying to you know be someone that I wasn't and then that weirdly identifying this like kind of new um content style which is we call it a chaotic cut in our like editing which is just like me just being a crazy art girl resonated with so many people because you can just tell I am being myself with it yeah it's like when I've tried to be aesthetic before it's just it's not for me like aesthetic was not made for me like I my feed was not made to look nice but it was made to look representative of my life and like whenever anyone's been like I don't know like I don't get me wrong I love shoot planning and I love mood boarding and I love all of these things that the creative side's my job but at the same time it's like people who spend time with me aren't like oh she's just so polished and aesthetic because I'm not I'm a like car crash in like not even slow motion like two times speed I feel like you see that on your social i feel like but that's why there's no other choice like my i feel like most people's socials only work when they are authentic to themselves because usually that is the otherwise you're trying to be good at something that other people are better than you at and you're doing a shitter version of it just to like fit the mold and so it's like if you're doing the thing that you are actually authentically good at which for me is being like batshit crazy is that's a lot more useful.

32:50You are so self-deprecating and brilliant in your content. You can see that going through. Like, it's like about three months ago, I just tried for a clean girl aesthetic. Oh, sure. And Alex was like, you don't wash your hair, Sophie. This is not for you. Fair enough. Okay, cool. No, literally me. But I think that that's like, there is a big point there. And it is in terms of like, you can, because you've been so successful on socials, I think someone would be forgiven for thinking that you have done things in line with trends. And I think that you've set a lot of trends and you've done a lot of things that lots of people haven't done.

33:26But I think realistically what you've done best is be yourself and do your art and do the thing that you want to do best. You're doing that better than anyone. So at the same time as when the algorithms changed all of these different times, you don't need to keep up with it. And like sometimes you do in certain ways when it comes to video hooks or editing or whatever it might be. But you're not keeping up with this new aesthetic or new trend. It's like people are there for you. And like say people stopped liking physical art or pink or like whatever it might be. Like you can adapt, but there's still this core of like why people like you for you.

34:01And that only comes from like finding out what you're good at and what you enjoy and like doubling down on that rather than trying to like conform. which I think you do very well. Oh, thank you. That's very flattering coming from you. Well, it's true. And when you were kind of growing overall, because I know that things really first started to take off for you over in Australia, because obviously that was when lockdown was and everything. Were there ever kind of specific moments, like one post or one launch or whatever it might be, that you were like, wow, this is really starting to take off. Like this is starting to be bigger than I imagined.

34:39um I yes there was one point in my career that I'd say my impact on the art world I thought had shifted the money didn't follow as quickly as my impact but honestly I'm really not money driven so like that was huge for me and it was slightly before COVID it was when I started to paint nudes and before that I'd painted animals and abstracts I painted animals because it was commercial I did about 300 dog pet commissions I don't want to see another pet commission in my entire life please do not bring a dog near me I don't want to see another fucking multi-poo get him out the face who call me oh yeah um my dog like oh she's so cute sometimes like she just sits in the corner I'm just like what's the colors babe let's get this going um so that was great and then they they took me a long time so again like having this like business lens on it I shifted it to abstracts because I could do them quick more quickly um and then I was at a point I think at this point I had five team members and I could just breathe a bit and I wanted to paint something or do something with my work that actually had a bigger positive impact.

36:02And I never had the best relationship with my own body growing up. Like I always hate the size of my boobs, like I've said this before, but I used to stuff my bra with football socks. I always remember thinking, oh, my future love of my life, I'll always have a bra on. He'll never see me naked. You in the bar, a waterlogged bra. That note, that's legit. I have that solid core memory. me at 14 but and I know and I was like 24 and I was painting and I know that it was because I never saw in a magazine or like a movie like someone with a more flat chest like it was all this same body type which was amazing and fine but like I wanted to see bodies like my mom's or like my sisters or like mine honestly and I kind of randomly I was looking for images online for um naked women I was trying to be a naked woman obviously like pornographic stuff comes up so I'm like okay cool so I can't use that and so right painting a porno scene perfect and I'm like really I'm a vanilla girl so I was like okay cool how different your career would have been then I was like oh well I had a following of about 50 ,000 followers on Instagram at the time and I'm thinking I just put it on my story and say does anyone want to send me a nude and overnight I had it over a thousand images really it was insane like an orphan different women Men all around the world taking notes.

37:43Start artist Instagram. Get 50 ,000 followers. Post on Instagram. Oh, literally. But yeah, it was amazing. I got one dick pic. One. Really good stat. I got one the other day as well, I remember. Yeah. You're like, yeah. I'm watching you say. But the best thing about it was all of the images came with stories why they wanted to share it. I remember this one girl sent me a Dropbox link of 150 images. I thought, you're a legend. Thank you so much. All from different times. Oh, my God, stop. Amazing. She's like, this was for this man. This was for me. These were for the doctor. Exactly. And then, yeah, I do remember one, and again, I say this often, but it does make me cry every time I think about it because like she had a double mastectomy and um she said her mom had passed away from breast cancer two months before and if that image could be part of the campaign like oh yeah so like i don't know like there's just real people real women out there like that have that that don't love the way they look and i feel i feel like if my work can help people or women feel just a tiny bit nicer about themselves like talk about like fulfillment at work like that is it so I've just been chasing that honestly for the last five years and I'm loving it and that I think was where people then connected with the work on a deeper level because it was more meaningful yeah and they can see themselves in it yeah and how did you I'm interested in how you moved on from that I guess because when you've had something that suddenly becomes really successful and becomes kind of your your thing yeah obviously you can still weave that into what you do but you also want to evolve and you want to bring your business forward and everything so like were you ever afraid of doing different things from that point 100 and the reconciliation I now have after years of thoughts about it I'm known for nudes my work will always come back to the female form there's always going to be a purpose for it because we always need reminding as women that we're just they were okay the way we are and like I froze my eggs last year and my relationship with my body completely changed like my boobs finally came in like ka-ching no but they were like hard and pointy and gross and now they've gone against it's fine but um that was interesting and then but you know like The way I felt and spoke about my body just like got back into a negative cycle again.

40:37So there'll always be that place for news in my work. I kind of think of it like that's my legacy and that's kind of like, if he's talking about it in a business sense, that's my core product offering. And that is what I'm known for and that will never leave. oh my god grace there's so many things i can do in the art world like i haven't even scratched the surface of like lots of fun little like ways i can bring a nude to life like i've done work with glass sculpture like that was a whole you know i haven't even begun on clay molding i've not begun on like so many other disciplines within art like that i can like bring the nude form to life with so i'm not really too worried about running out of ideas if you like in that case However, I will say to your point, yeah, I have been nervous about like trying new things because, you know, actually it might not be as successful.

41:37And that happened in reality, honestly. Like two years ago, I finished a big nude campaign. I do these big shows like I had one at the London Palladium. And like these are amazing. Wasn't like 10 ,000 women applied to walk naked for you at the London Palladium? How amazing is that? How many people can say that? I know. I know. And I've just booked in Royal Appalachian. Oh, my God. I know. That's awesome. Oh, my God. I would love to. We'll move on. You put that on the booster. Grace Fit UK. Think it. Grace Fit UK. Yeah, I love that you said that. It's so funny. I'm barmy underscore babe underscore homo.com.

42:21Anyway. What was I going to say? The news. Yeah. diversifying from the news is difficult has been difficult and what I have realized as a woman I my career is not a sprint like I'm in a lucky position as a visual artist that it does have longevity I can be an old crippled woman in the middle of my studio my work can still sell for lots of money like you know I always sometimes think how unfair is sometimes when you see music industry and um how that longevity piece doesn't ring as true and because i don't see it as a sprint anymore i've been able to like downscale my team and get to a such a sustainable place for me where like i can actually afford to work on less projects do them brilliantly take risks and still move my artistic voice and what I'm trying to build and and widen my impact but I can still I like I can sustain it you know what I mean like and I think that's the point I got to a couple of years ago because if I'm honest I was a bit of a busy fool I was like mass producing art that I thought would sell and be trendy and I lost my way a bit about like why I started it like I actually started painting because I do believe that like everyone should be able to enjoy the arts and because it was something that genuinely made me happy yeah and it had shifted into a business and I have spent the last two years re-establishing the fact that art is the core not the business yeah it needs to be protected I think that's really, really powerful.

44:15And I think that there are so many things that we could think about in that way that we don't. And I think that we are in a world definitely because of social media, but a lot of other things as well, where everything is so growth, growth, growth, like it's all about bigger is always better. And that just cannot be the reality when it comes to our careers and our work. And like the same comes from for like if you get to the point in your career where it might not be the highest salary you can make, but it is the perfect balance of salary to having a life, to having to knowing your job well, to being able to know what you can expect and having that stability.

44:49Like not everyone, and I don't mean this in a patronizing way at all, I don't think I am, not everyone is meant to reach their highest form of success in numbers only. Like success can look like so many different things. And for lots of people, we assume that the best form of success is the biggest and the loudest and the most like awards or whatever it might be. And actually, there's been a big realisation for me in the past year or so has been like, no, the biggest version of success for me looks like whatever the success can look like and whatever the goals I want to reach and have reached, whilst also still being like a healthy, happy human being that is able to express themselves.

45:31and occasionally go for lunch with a friend and like take lunch breaks and not come in super early all the time and not leave super late all the time and like that can if I can't achieve the top three things on my list while doing that maybe that's fine yeah and I think that that is a really valuable lesson from what you've done because I have no doubt there would have been other routes and I think you know your art is going to reach amazing heights and your business is going to reach amazing heights. But there's no doubt for both of us and for anyone in any one business, there would have been another route we could have taken at some point that would have led to a bigger result.

46:07But that doesn't mean it was the right one.

46:26No rigid long-term contracts. Just the right expert, right when you need them. Work smarter and faster with Upwork. Go to upwork.com now and find your freelance expert. That's U-P-W-O-R-K dot com. Post a job for free and get started today.

46:44I guess for some people who might be listening to this then who know the pressure of monetizing creativity, all different industries, whether art or fashion or like many, many different things, how would you recommend people get good at doing that whilst also preserving that creativity and preserving the joy around what they're doing to your point redefine what success is for you because it's not just numbers and like if it's joy like it doesn't have to be commercial like it's completely valid and you can say that you are a practicing artist if you also have a full-time job like carving out those parts that you can like be free to be creative is a huge success like and yeah and I'm saying that obviously from a privileged position because it's like oh yeah well I've been able to create a career out of it but I think my personality type is geared to um to throw myself into like these like risky situations and I like I thrive in that chaos but like this is artist friend of mine I admire her so much and she's like so mysterious and so cool online I'm like oh my god I wish I could like I'm like no that's like that's her and that's so special and that's her superpower like find out what you're good at find out what makes you happy and then like carve your artistic career around that you've also like across your career done so many different crazy art-based things like almost stunt like like the ones I got here are like locking yourself in a box for an auction selling a completely blank canvas I'm interested in like where those ideas come from is it a thirst for doing something different to what you're doing already or is it just like i'm just gonna fucking do this and like what's the aim around doing things like that it's all just a bit of fun honestly like just keep it like keep like it's not you're not saving lives here let's just like fuck it up a bit like let's just do some random stuff like and also it's a marketing campaign isn't it like any other business like we need like these these stunts what i will say actually is those stunts in particular that you mentioned they were to do with um auctions now the auction world is like kind of what you just play into if you're like a high-end artist so like i always want to do them a bit differently because like i don't want to do them the same as like a artist represented by a blue chip gallery would do them like actually in that world um typically an artist wouldn't be able to directly consign artwork directly with an auction house like i don't know why but i just made friends with the auction house owner it was kind of like a smaller one but still like a very prestigious one and he just like let me give the artwork to them and then do like a stunt around it yeah i don't know like and these progressive thinkers in the industry i'm like latching on to because like that's interesting another thing I met the king oh yeah yeah naturally yeah and basically it was to do with a charity called the elephant family and I had to paint that it's on this massive egg right we're at this auction at Kew Gardens and I do this thing and they're like oh we're gonna have it an auction the top people in the room people are gonna like oh I can bid this amount I can bid this amount it's just like a big dick off competition yeah anyway I was like I'm like artist woman of the people like why don't I have my massive egg and open it up for donations so if you donate one pound two pound you'll be in a chance to win this massive egg rather than like one really super rich person winning the egg love that then we made loads of money doing it that way So like I when I'm I feel like it's important when I am in a privileged position and I'm walking into these rooms in my future career.

50:56I have to always remain true to like why I started it and like what my unique edge is. So like always looking at things. It's like the stunts like that wasn't necessary at all. Like I locked myself in a box for 24 hours. I got a UTI on live stream and was pissing blood. No, it was so bad. Where did you pee in the box? There was a chemical toilet on the live stream. That's nice. Yeah, I know. I'm like so artsy and weird. But like the piece went for a lot of money. Do you know what I mean? Like there's always an element. And then like I did a blank canvas auction where, yeah, that was the first one I did.

51:37And we sold a blank canvas for 10 grand. Oh my God, unreal. It was so fun. But then obviously I was like, hon, what do you want on the canvas? Obviously, thank you, but I'll paint something on it for you. But you know, it's all marketing. It's all a bit of fun. Yeah, and I think as well, like I imagine so much of this is why you still have such a passion for your career, despite the fact that you are good at the commercial stuff whilst also doing the art, is like there's still so much enjoyment in it. Like you're... Can this just be the chaotic episode? Like just keep it in because like honestly, like...

52:09Yeah. Guys, for anyone listening, there is a thunderstorm that's just started and we think it's because both of us are sidekicks and giving witchy energy. Yeah, it is. Which makes no sense in the grand context of things. But there's a sudden thunderstorm and it's hailing outside. Perfect. Yeah, I feel like that must tie in because you're still injecting so much fun and passion and you into everything you're doing. And that really shines through. like I think that you so easily could have been a trend and your art so easily could have been a trend because that's what you get when someone's super successful in a boom period and you've been able to continue and being able to do what you still do oh that is so so nice because like being in business and being an artist but particularly being on an entrepreneur for a long period of time you have to be dynamic and you need to understand market conditions and market passes and be factors and be fluid and drop your ego and be able to shift tactics and strategy and like stay in the game and with the things like charity shop fridays is that how those types of ideas came about as well charity shop friday has like it's such a it's it's now developed like a new meaning to me and my team honestly it honestly initially was about just trying to get an interesting new video I love hunting for bargains and I was a bit bored in my studio so I just wanted to like paint on something random and like that was it now it's become like shining a light and the already fantastic work that charities are doing and to be able to do that is like a real blessing and also like meeting everyone in real life like people that and and then like seeing like young people like wanting to come and like wanting me to draw on their items and like getting new young people into the art world like I don't know I just it is a bit stunty yes but I feel like it just epitomizes what I believe Sofie T.

54:12Art is about which is community and democratizing access yeah to the arts yeah um there's so many there's so many ways I'd like want to move forward and do that I'd actually signed some contracts yesterday about a new business I'm setting up it's called Source Paint yeah I've been wanting to do an art supply business for like such a long time and I really feel like now I'm in a solid position to be able to do that um uh and it will allow me to look at business in a different way as well because with Sophie TR, it's a expensive product. And I haven't really wanted to introduce any merch or like the cheapest thing that we do.

55:03We have a coffee table book for 250 pounds. And then aside from that, it's like a thousand pound print. So it's like very expensive work, which kind of, when I'm like singing this song about trying to be accessible, like I'm missing I'm missing something because it's actually quite expensive and with Sophie TR I've not been really able to provide a product that engages with my core belief which is getting more people into the arts the charity shop Friday definitely does that and that's fantastic because I mean people can just rock up for free and they can win the item that's great but actually i think that art can save people like the act of being creative is such a powerful one it's amazing for your mental health um and yes the product of that will be pain but what i want to try and build is getting more people into the arts where's the duke of edinburgh for art right do you know what I mean yeah why doesn't that exist where's the like more funding towards the arts at schools like it's being cut like I feel like people don't really take the arts or careers in the arts that seriously well it's the visionaries that are changing the world like why are we not like propping the arts up and if I can that's kind of like my legacy that I want to build with source paint although it is just an art supply business actually not only do i want to understand what it's like to sell a product at scale which i've not been able to do with i also want to like be able to have more touch points into like people making things happen um so yeah i've got a very stunty cool idea for my marketing campaign for source that i won't but like yeah it's always just like yeah and I also like I don't say stunty negatively at all I feel like you're such a good example of like how to be able to operate in the online world now and like you've had to be able to do this to like you've built your own platform and versus what would have had to be given to you or nepotism to you or like you know got to you in some other way and art is such like an unrealistic career for most people who don't come from money and like have that type of background so to be able to show the way that that can be done I think is it shows more shows far more people as well like how not just people getting into art in terms of like being able to buy it but also like I can't imagine how many people's careers you've inspired in terms of actually just being like oh I could do that it's just like starting any other business like why can't I do that and yeah I think that's really amazing for anyone listening who is inspired by what you said and kind of is thinking oh shit I want to turn a creative passion into a career like I want to bring this into what I'm actually doing day to day what advice would you give them well I've realized that this piece of advice that I've been giving um I thought that like Buddha said it or something but it's actually Dwayne The Rock Johnson but he said and this is the advice that I'm now gonna give is very similar people I know yeah I actually like said it before it was like are you wearing The Rock and I was giving it I said I guess I am and the advice is

58:48please continue one day or day one

58:56and you should put that on a canvas but it's true it is there's no there's not gonna be like a perfect situation you have enough money or you have enough friends or you're on top of your family relationships or like you're feeling creative, like just get going. I'm also just really thinking about the fact that you thought that was Buddha that said that.

59:21No. I was thinking it was coming in here. I said, Alex, this is an important one. I have to show up. I've worn two shirts now. That is how much I am business. And a tie. Yeah, and a tie. I was like well interesting I was like I know I mean business business yeah well it makes sense and it all ties together and I loved the advice okay thank you well given I laughed at your advice so much do you want to tell me what the best piece of advice is that you've ever been given and it can be from The Rock or it can be from someone else okay interesting best piece of advice well that was my answer that question guys so um we have this little joke between us like one of our best selling products prints is everything's going to be okay.

1:00:10And we always just say it to each other and we're just like, everything's going to be okay size medium. Oh, I really like that. Yeah, depending on like how big of a, you fucked up, but everything's going to be okay size XL. I really like that. Yeah, because it just, just will be. But thank you so much for joining me. You've been fucking brilliant. Thanks for having me. I, yeah, have loved watching your journey. over the past few years. And you, honestly. I've been watching you for such a long time. This is such a weird feeling. So yeah, it's so nice to finally meet you probably. And you. Well, thank you so much for coming on.

1:00:59What's up? Grace from The Working Hour Podcast here and I want to tell you about something exciting. You're watching every dollar and Walmart business helps you stretch each one. From office supplies to snacks and cleaning gear, you'll get everyday low prices, plus easy bulk ordering and fast delivery. And with tools like spend tracking and multi-user accounts, staying organized is simple. Save time, money, and hassle at business.walmart.com. It's free to sign up. If you're a custodial supervisor at a local high school, you know that cleanliness is key. And that the best place to get cleaning supplies is from Grainger.

1:01:31Grainger helps you stay fully stocked on the products you trust, from paper towels and disinfectants to floor scrubbers. Plus, you can rely on Grainger for easy reordering, so you never run out of what you need. Call 1-800-GRAINGER, click grainger.com, or just stop by. Grainger, for the ones who get it done. Wix. It's where website creation meets AI, and where your boldest ideas become real. It just takes one platform to build a site that looks great, and does everything you need it to. And it just takes one person, you, to start taking care of business like a 10-person team. With AI tools for creating an entire website from scratch or testing new ways to make money, Wix is there with you from day one.

1:02:16Try it out now at Wix.com.