Your guide to fixing your finances without life becoming boring with Two Broke Chicks

0:00Shipping, billing, admin, payroll, marketing. You're managing all the things.

0:05Grace Beverley: So why waste time sending important documents the old-fashioned way? Mail and ship when you want, how you want with Stamps.com. Print postage on demand 24-7 and schedule pickups from your office or home. Save up to 90 % with automated rate shopping. That's why over 1 million small businesses trust Stamps.com. Go to Stamps.com and use code PODCAST to try Stamps.com risk-free for 60 days. Parles-tu français? Hablas espagnol? Parli italiano? If you've used Babbel, you would. Babbel's conversation-based technique teaches you useful words and phrases to get you speaking quickly about the things you actually talk about in the real world.

0:44With lessons handcrafted by over 200 language experts and voiced by real native speakers, Babbel is like having a private tutor in your pocket. Start speaking with Babbel today. Get up to 55 % off your Babbel subscription right now at babbel.com slash acast. Spelled B-A-B-B-E-L dot com slash acast. Rules and restrictions may apply. Security program on spreadsheets, new regulations piling up, and audit dread? It's time for Vanta. Vanta automates security and compliance, brings evidence into one place, and cuts audit prep by 82%. Less manual work, clearer visibility, faster deals. Zero chaos. Call it compliance, or call it compliance.

1:29Get it? Join the 15 ,000 companies using Vanta to prove trust. Go to Vanta.com slash com.

1:52What is up?

1:53Grace Beverley: I'm Grace Beverly and welcome back to Working Hard, the podcast shared guidebook on how to improve your own life and achieve what you actually dreamed of doing, because life's too short for boring podcasts and bad advice.

2:06Grace Beverley: What is up and welcome back to Working Hard. I have got another episode from our Australia series for you today. If you want to feel like you have your life together, budgeted, planned for, but you don't want to be boring or give up all the things you love, then this is very much the video for you. I'm talking to Sal and Elle from True Broke Chicks, and we're talking all about how to have a big improvement in your routine for the rest of the year but we're talking specifically financially they are experts on budgeting without scrimping so we get into how to keep your rich girl habits even when you're on a budget payday routines budgeting habits that actually work the routines that will actually change your life and the small changes that will make the biggest differences to your finances and saving overall it's a bit of a girl chat episode but it's also packed with practical advice if you want to feel more in control of your money and your routine, which to be honest is my favorite kind of episode.

2:52Grace Beverley: But before we get into it, could you please do me and also yourselves a favor and follow the podcast wherever you're listening to it on. This means that we can keep this podcast completely free like it always has been and keep making it even better every single time doing bonus episodes and everything that you put in your request for. That helps us hugely and means you can continue to get an episode ready to improve your life every single Monday completely for free.

3:19Grace Beverley: Tal and Ali, currently more working hard or hardly working? Oh. Do you want to go first? Imagine if I said hardly working. I'd be like, get back to work. This is a partnership. I'd be like, excuse me. Working hard, but working with your best friend, it's always fun. It doesn't feel like a real job all the time. Floating. I'd like to, like, is it cheating if I say both? No, I mean, that's kind of the whole point. Yeah. I'm trying to, like, at the moment we're, like, working hard. I've got like after May Day, we always do like our sales cheat sheets. So like that's been working hard. But this year I'm really trying to hardly work as much as I can because I'm like it's just life's not that serious, especially when you're working in like social media.

4:01Have you watched The Pit? No. Oh, my God. It's the best show. Anyway, it's like Grey's Anatomy but like not sexy. And anyway, every time I – So why would you watch The Pit? I know. You're like – Yeah, exactly.

4:11Grace Beverley: What's the US Pit? No, trust me. That was my feedback. A medical textbook. Yeah. That was my feedback first. But anyway, anytime I watch that and like I'm watching these like doctors and nurses and all this shit going on in the emergency room, I'm like, you know, I'm okay. Yeah, we're not saving lives. That email wasn't that bad. My 3pm marketing meeting didn't save a life. Yeah. We're good. So yeah, both. Both. Cheating. But yeah. No, but I think that's important. I feel like whether you have a job that is saving lives or not, I feel like that's the whole thing is that you got to, and I feel like more and more as we grow up, you notice what that idea of like, not to be so cliche, but like what that balance looks like to you and I feel like for so long I was very much trying to chase this like 50 50 balance where and then I was like actually realistically I do like work and I like to work a lot and I get very fulfilled from it so that's fine it just that doesn't mean that it needs to be your entire identity and every second of every day enough to like burn you out over and over and I'm like a firm believer in the fact that you can find work like if you're constantly like looking for work you can find it so like actually being able to find time to switch off and rest is just as like it's sometimes even harder for people as well so there's always something to do yeah to put those boundaries in place because otherwise it will just never end yeah yeah no I think those are good rules and how would you describe your jobs to someone who asks oh my god yeah throw back to like every Christmas one And your uncle's like, what are you doing?

5:39So how cute? Oh, no, it's the. It's like, I'm sturdy, literally.

5:43Grace Beverley: It's the customs form. Yeah. And you're like, I'm sure, actually. We have a friend that just writes something different every time. Every time. That's going to get her in trouble. Has she ever watched Border Force? No. Yeah, true. I just remember watching that once and a lady had some conspicuous materials, but she put them in her butt. Oh, do you know what I wrote on that? I wonder what she put on her for. Drug meal. But it was her butt implants. She had drugs in her butt implants. In her implants. I was thinking about, you know. Yeah, same. I was like, option. I'm quite common. She said BBL, but make it no way.

6:19Grace Beverley: She went Tatarol. That's intense. I know. I think we just actually put on the actual form. I would put like journalists because honestly, that's where we started. So we have been best friends for like almost 10 years now. but we met at our old workplace and we worked at like a media company together and we have journalism degrees and that's how we launched the podcast so I still would see ourselves as that but typically I say like we have a podcast yeah I'm not too fussed with like I do think when you work in creative industries there's lots of labels that you can put on stuff so like you know if ever someone we go to something and they go influencers or creators or journalists I'm like but if the shoe fits yeah yeah just vibes yeah no I like that yappers that's probably professional yappers boy do I identify and you talk a lot about rich girl habits but when you talk about that like what does that really mean to you like in the day-to-day what what what are your rich girl habits I do think like the term like rich girl it's definitely like it is that buzzword it is that word to kind of get your attention because it is, I think about like a motivation tool.

7:32It's like, what is a rich girl? How do I be like a rich girl? And I don't think you ever will get to a point where you go, done. I am finally rich girl. There's no like checklist, right? To it. I think the way we see it is like about intentional money habits and intentional spending. It's about being an owner, not a consumer. So when you look at the way that you spend your money it's about spending your money to own things or to build things future you will thank you for rather than constantly consuming things or constantly buying things because trust me then there i'm like once i finally find perfect pair of blue jeans i'll be happy yeah they don't they're not they're not that they are there but yeah i'll talk about you'll report

8:18Grace Beverley: pullback with an affiliate link yeah i have a special interest skill exactly but i do think it's about looking at things like cost per use knowing what your bills are there's the stat for australia that it's 80 of australians don't know how much they spend every month and i would definitely have put myself in that bucket for a very long time there are some months as well i'm like wait how much was that well how much is that bill sorry there was a she activated a stim a disney related stim yeah but it's like the micro habits that you build that make you feel like you're getting better with money because I don't think you ever will wake up and feel like you've got it all sorted or that you're like I'm done it's a routine it's a habit building process that It's like a muscle.

9:10The more you do it, the more you grow it and the more you feel confident in it.

9:14Grace Beverley: Yeah. And I think, I mean, I think that's so true. I think that the part that you mentioned about like the end goal always shifting is important because if you feel like you're doing these quote unquote rich girl routines to get somewhere and that goalpost always moves, you're going to become demotivated. You're going to become demoralized. You're going to become like uninspired with it. whereas it's that accumulation over time of knowing like i have control over my finances because i know all of these different things and of course that doesn't mean that your boiler is not going to break or like that something's not going to go wrong or you'll have like your car insurance bill coming in like exactly and like things that are going to happen that you didn't account for and all of that but like that's exactly why you make those better decisions because it's like, okay, if I can do this hygiene every month, then I'm going to be less shocked at all of the rest of this.

10:07I think as well, we don't realize like some of the things that we are already doing that are really, really good habits. Like for example, someone might think that they're not, you know, a rich girl in quotes because they don't have a house, you know, they haven't bought their first property but for some it's the fact that they don't use buy now pay later anymore but others it's the fact that they have a thousand dollars saved which doesn't sound like a lot but nearly half of Australians don't so it's like these little tiny modules that it's okay to start really really small with that and then build it and once you build that habit and those routines I don't think you can ever go online and go rich girl yeah teen and then it's done and you have to follow that entire thing because it's it's got to be so custom to you and how you spend money it might be the fact that you didn't buy anything online that week which that's hard congratulations to you how does it feel to be better than everyone else

11:05Grace Beverley: no but you're so right and i think that like it's very easy particularly with social media to become so uninspired by the disparity and by how particularly with influencer culture and like I say this as someone who I have no doubt contributes to it and like when you're looking at these different people online like that comparison aspect has the potential to make you think I'm never going to make this decision because I'm never going to get there so I might as well not even try I might as well spend my money because I'm never going to hoard a house but that's the thing and like yeah and I get it because I mean we know statistically in terms of like being able to buy a house comparative to salary now is shocking in comparison to even where it was like 30, 40 years ago.

11:50Grace Beverley: And so like, it's so understandable that people do feel apathetic to it, but it's like, what can you feel not apathetic about? What can you feel inspired by? Like what can you feel cemented and like grounded in so that each month you don't just feel like you're slipping away? Because that like lack of control, I feel like is one of the biggest things like from any financial episode we do on this podcast like the majority of the messages that we get afterwards are people in very specific situations that have obviously just like accumulated over time and actually that's where I feel like the difference is yeah I would have such like a I can swear yeah yeah okay

12:38welcome

12:43we're keeping that in

12:46Grace Beverley: I really enjoy it you're British you like it I would make me be like no I'm just kidding I would have such like a fuck it mentality when it came to money because like if it was too hard to save or if I felt like I was behind I would be like, well, whatever. I'm just going to buy it anyway. And that kind of head in the sand. There's that saying that, like, if you're too scared to check your bank account, you need to check your bank account. And, like, that was me. I was like, I don't want to go on there. Especially after, like, a weekend. When I thought I was, like, a broad-webbing finance. Yeah, weekend millionaire.

13:20Being like, my round. Yeah. I'll get it. Don't worry. Shots for everyone. And the next day, I'm like, work in media. And a base salary. Girl, stop buying rounds. You are an intern. Yeah. You don't get paid. Yeah, literally. I was the exact same in my early 20s. I had a real apathetic mindset to money and I'd be like, well, what's the point? And because there's so many statistics about how it is so much harder for millennial and Gen Z people to own property or save money or make any of those big money moves that maybe our parents would have traditionally by the time they were our age, that I kind of was, it felt easier to be like, oh, well, what's the point?

13:58I won't even try because I'll never get there. but I think once I realized that even the smallest money win can make such an impact to your

14:05Grace Beverley: motivation that's when I was able to switch it particularly as it accumulates over time I think that like each of these habits and each of these like tiny tiny things like even if it's just that you usually have like a net negative month or you usually have like a net zero month and you get like a net 20 quid month like the difference between that in accumulation over time is like massive yeah and it's like also the accumulation in it's like that self-trust it's like you building that trust of yourself that you can do that and you could stick to that even if it is just what you would consider a small amount that's not going to buy you out it has to be so tiny it has to be so tiny when you start because it's kind of like you know how we see all these things and it's like the you know routines of and no shade to anyone who loves these routines and everyone's different for what works for them but it's like you've got to drink 300 liters of water and take 20 million steps day and call your mom and see your friends and do your work and have a side hustle and do all these things that when you try to do all of those things at the same time you're never going to do all of them and you kind of have to look at money the same way like why do you if you never reach your new year's resolutions which like saying but like if that if you really struggle with that you need to also have that in your mind with money that it's like you're not gonna save $10 ,000 in one month just because you put your mind to it.

15:25Right. Yeah. That's just not going to happen. Is that saying that it's like someone who can't handle$10 ,000 can't handle a million dollars because they don't know how to actually do it?

15:32Grace Beverley: Yeah. And you mentioned obviously that you've gone from someone who like wouldn't necessarily check your bank account and feels like a little bit scared about that and like didn't know necessarily what that kind of financial hygiene looked like to obviously being a very savag girl now. What would you say the best changes that you've made to your financial routine are that have made the biggest difference? Mine would be automating everything that I can because it takes away you having to rely on any sort of motivation. Because if you already don't have those, like you've described it, money hygiene habits in place, which a lot of us don't.

16:09It's not something that we learn in school. So it is something that you have to build a path. But we know both the virus there. Yeah, we do. And we learn hot crossbones on the recorder. Woo!

16:23so true so true respect but yeah so being able to automate anything that you can if that's bills money that goes into your savings um in australia you know like our superannuation like that gets automated making sure you're on top of that like anything that you can that you can basically have running in the background has been such a huge win because otherwise you're like oh like i couldn't be bothered and it's like you set it up once it takes five minutes to do and then you reap the benefits forever if you're someone that like is always going back to your friends being like oh my god I'm so sorry I forgot to reply that's what you need to do I'm that friend that I'm like it's two weeks later and I sit up in bed and I'm like I didn't tell Jessica I can make brunch I'm like automating your money is definitely the way to go I also started this year tracking my spending and there's lots of different ways that you can do this.

17:16People like to do it like the analog way. They have like money journals and you literally write down every single thing you spend. I like using a spreadsheet and you categorize all of your spending into like little buckets. And this beautiful spreadsheet, which I did not make, I bought it and it's literally the best investment I've ever made. And it really forces you to look at the money that you spend. And then when you see the total, you're like, hmm, did I need take away four times this thick meal delivery app where it came cold and 45 minutes late and they forgot my sauce. Yeah. I had things in the fridge.

17:56Yes. Mom was right. They were like, damn it. I'm turning into my parents every day more and more. and so like it's those things that kind of one make you realize where you're spending money and you look at it and you go actually I don't want to spend$40 on one Tupperware container of noodles which like fair enough sometimes you do that's also the other thing that I'm like there's no rules that it's like no bad girl you can't do that it's like do I want to do that because that means that this budget that I have for my fun stuff that I really do want to go out and get a mojito on the weekend that kind of comes out of that so like it's about weighing up your values and doing that has been so helpful because when I did a budget I kind of felt like I was like where's my money yeah like I couldn't be like yeah this is exactly what I'd spent and I was like where's all my money going and money leakage yeah and I've been robbed yeah and then I'm like I set up cameras I'm like fuck it's me I'm like sneaking in like and then anyway doing that made me realize I actually have more money to save spend and invest than I realized I've just been not paying attention to how it's spent half of that was subscriptions that I didn't even know was still there it's just that like Apple iTunes thing that comes through being like$6.99 for this subscription I'm like where are you guys from I trust you yeah we're all yeah literally and I'm like it's some random like language app that I had when I was in Europe my oh shit yeah you're Like the Spain trip's coming.

19:29Oh, yeah. I think as well doing that shows you what your money values actually are because so many people will probably be like, oh, yeah, my value is saving money. But if you go through and actually see where your money is going, you're like, well, maybe it's not. Maybe your money value is the convenience of ride share or it's ordering food. And it's like, is that really where I want my money value to be? Yeah. Also, money value doesn't have to be like the saving money or getting a house. Like if you talk to people who are going and having a gap year, like that's not going to be their money value.

20:03Their money value is experience. And like that has been consistently proven to have a high reward, like emotional reward of spending. so like spending isn't some like shadowy evil thing lurking over your shoulder being like do it but it's like it's about what's the long-term reward of that spending and is it experience is it memories is it like a really good vintage leather jacket that you're like I now bestow this to you my son like how does that how does this like stay with you forever yeah and for someone

20:38Grace Beverley: who's listening to this who's like oh I actually do not have a financial routine like on payday my money just goes into my account and there's nothing that I do with it there's no sort of hygiene around it there's no routine as I said where would you kind of suggest that they start I think a good place to start is definitely tracking your expenses like Elle said but then also once you've done that opening up separate accounts and they can be within the existing bank account that you already have. If you have no self-control, they're split them out. Yeah. Split them out. No, that is a good hack.

21:12Because you can set up one for like an account for your bills and your fixed expenses, like your non-negotiable stuff that has to be paid. Then you can have another one for your everyday expenses that may shift a little bit. So things like petrol, public transport, or food and groceries. And then if you have a financial goal, if it's savings or a holiday or a new car, you can have an account for that. And then you can have a separate account for fun money and actually splitting out where your money is going on payday so that it isn't just sitting in the one account you're just spending it because otherwise

21:44Grace Beverley: you get like this false narrative that that is how much money and it's like no you need to tell it like that's actually not your money no like that's not your money because it's your futures money or because it's your tax money because it's like whatever it might be it's like you've got to Stop telling yourself that that is your money for this month, even if it looks nice because the whole salary came in in a lump sum and that is nice to look at. It's very confusing if you just have one account. That's why I think banks are now rolling out. A lot of them have these things called like savers or these like mini savings accounts that basically you can create little buckets of categories to put your money into.

22:22So once you do your budget and you figure out your savings, your fund money, your fixed expenses, and then like your subscriptions and bills, you can then break that out into your different savings of like, okay, well, that's$400, that's$600. And you just know what you have to spend. So that way it then helps you when you're going, oh, I want this$300 dress, which like, love that. You look gorgeous. Do you have a promo card? love that but you go okay well but that means that this is gonna then dip into that and I won't be

22:54Grace Beverley: able to go forward in it but I think that's the thing as well like once you start introducing those like hygiene things it feels so much better to buy that dress yeah when you know that you can because you've put that allocation aside or you didn't spend last month so that you could buy this this month or whatever like that impulse of you not doing that feels nice for a second but like the actual understanding that you had control over that situation and you are well within your right to get that dress like that feels so much better and it's also better for future yes yeah takes away that element of guilt or anxiety or the unknown that so many people have with their money I think it also builds a little bit more of like a connection to it because obviously like using cash now like does anyone in the room have cash on them no so i don't know what australian cash looks like it's really pretty yeah it's really cold really cold is it water pretty yeah it is yeah it's 10 out of 10 i would say that i do think we have the prettiest currency in the world um it's just colorful we have better plunks though plucks yeah like like bath plucks no with plugs in the walls.

24:04Grace Beverley: Oh, no way. Have you seen ours? Have you seen ours? Yours are all wonky. It's going to fall out the wall. Ours are a nice cemented... Yours are sexy. There's no air con in your... Electricity has not done you well in Australia. Yeah, that's all right. I'm not convinced you haven't. You don't hear what you're saying, Grace. No, I do. Ours are a little bit wonky, especially sometimes if you press it in a little bit, the plug will be like exactly you pull it out and it's like and you have to kind of like force it back yeah okay fine you know what we'll pay that one um what was i saying no one has fish and so because it's just numbers on a screen i think you can sometimes feel a little bit distant to your money you're like this is a game yeah and it's like it doesn't feel real and like doing little things to remind you okay like how many hours of work is that amount and when you actually do your like red string on a whiteboard of like and this money goes here and this money goes here and you start saving and you start doing that you have so much more respect for your money when you actually look at it and so then it does help that like fuck it mentality of spending which i had of being like oh whatever i'll just spend this and blah blah blah blah i'm like wait no no that's that's my baby like i need that i worked hard for that because you connect you're more connected to it, especially like if I'm giving you$20, right?

25:29If I like sat here with a$20 note and a phone case and I was like to you, do you want a new phone case? Like, look, it's so pretty and it's got cherries on it and kittens. Or do you want$20? And if you're thinking of buying a phone case, right? But your phone case kind of works, but this one's new and shiny and you just got served an ad for it on Instagram. But I'm also holding 20 bucks. I go, well, do you want the phone case or do you want 20 bucks? And if you're saying, I want the phone case, then you know that's a good spent you know that's like good investment but if you go oh I want the 20 bucks yeah you don't need the money you'd rather the money yeah yeah no I think that's so interesting

26:03Grace Beverley: I think the one thing that you were just saying there in terms of like the excitement and like the like having that respect for your money I feel like impulse spending on social media is such a big thing as well and it's like you almost have to take the joy out of it and like not to be mean and horrible but like it is fun to see something and be like that is like that's gonna look so good on me like that's gorgeous that's perfect for this event like whatever that you didn't even need anything for anyway like whatever and you jump to it and that whole process is so fun like the whole thing and it's like you have to like remove that dopamine hit from it the dopamine hit instead has to be from like the control of you having known I can spend x amount on this and I've saved up for it and I can now buy it if I have permission to.

26:51Grace Beverley: Whereas like. It's like a gold, it's like a reward. Yeah. Whereas like I just feel like it's so easy to have that impulse, particularly with like social media spending and like. That's your habit loop. Yeah. I'm sure you've seen this. It's in like James Cleese. Like it's not like habits. Oh boy, have I seen this? Wait, you open up my YouTube, you see the first video. It's the habit theory. Exactly. And so it's like that's how you should look at building good habits. is like doing your budget every week and putting whatever you know expendable income you have into a little bucket that at the end of the month you get a treat you can buy whatever you want and with that expendable income it might be twenty dollars it might be a hundred dollars at the end of the week and then you get to be like cool I did my budget yeah I'm gonna buy myself a treat and you then build that habit loop yeah it's the trust you build over time and the confidence and like the knowledge that you are a person who does what they said yeah and like who's and I think that is so important and such an element of self-confidence that actually we often overlook like we look at self-confidence in so many ways it's like ultimately how are you going to have any self-confidence when you continuously tell yourself you're going to save and you don't do it like of course there are so many situations where it's just impossible and I totally get that but at the same time it's like this is the same with everything like you wouldn't trust a friend if they continuously cancelled on you so like why would you trust yourself if you keep telling yourself like I'm gonna save up to get a this much nicer flat next year or to be able to buy a car in a year or like whatever it might be and you continuously fall short of that like that's not fair to yourself and so you naturally just stop trusting yourself and that's where your confidence goes down the drain because it's like who are you and what have you promised to who because like none of it's coming to fruition would you say there's a single thing that you wish you'd done earlier when it comes to like finance and financial routine generally?

28:45Investing like 1000 % and 48 % of women don't invest, but it's been proven that women are actually better at it. And this is one of those things that it's confusing and a bit of a boys club on purpose because the less people that know how to do it, the more people that do end up getting richer, right like the rich get richer and level keep the wealth gap yeah seriously and it's definitely something to wrap your head around but the way I started looking at it was like progress not perfection and just getting started is better than feeling guilty in my brain for being like I've got to start that or I got to do that I really want to start that and I think for like three years my like new year's resolution was to start investing and then this year I was like I'm not doing resolutions this year.

29:37I was like, I'm just here for the vibes. I want to have fun. And I feel like I always get that like big dopamine hit, right? At the start of the year being like January, new year, new me, love that. And this is what I mean. Everything works differently for everyone. But this year I just removed pressure and just focused on routine, like rather than result, focused on routine and progress. And it was the first year I actually like really consistently tracked my money. I've started investing. And then when you start, you're like, I could have been doing this like 10 years ago. It's like so easy.

30:08It's so easy.

30:09Grace Beverley: And like I don't intend to sound patronizing at all. You don't need thousands of dollars to do it as well. But like all of these apps now, like whichever one you use when it comes to investing, like you don't need to know a single thing. Like all you need to know are index funds. I've literally chosen two. And I have some fun money that I put into some like funny little Reddit like ones that I've seen. And I'm like, fine, this might blow up. yeah and like one or two of them are some of them how's she doing but you're not meant to do anything with it like as in it feels hard because it feels so out of touch and there's all this lingo and there's all this but it's like I was the exact same as you for literally like five years I was just telling myself like bearing in mind I had investment in my own companies like I was dealing with all sorts of like funding rounds and investment generally like you 100 % would have assumed that I was investing my own money.

30:59Grace Beverley: And since I have, I've been like, fucking hell. This is so easy. Like, I totally agree. It's never been more accessible to people. Oh my God, it's incredible. You can literally put 20 quid into a little account and then once that builds up, it then invests it. And I'm like, this is like the amount of times I've over-eats to coffee to myself in my early 20s, which please don't judge me. I was like, I could ruin a lot more money for me. And then the other one is points. Like I love points, packing, and like in terms of like points for flights and stuff like that. We flew business class for the first time ever last year and it was the best day of my life.

31:38I actually think that was probably the best day of 2025. Shit, I got another cat in 2025. It was up there. I'm going to say top three. I think the best thing that I can like say to people and to me, like if I could back to the future myself in a really cool car, is like don't just spend your money like make your money work for you like whether that's getting rewards whether whether that's getting points like how can you if you bill with someone can you get free netflix because they have like an agreement can you get points from your phone bill which like sal figured out she could do like how can you make your money work harder for you rather than sitting in a savings account can you put more towards investing like make your money go of the GM.

32:20I don't know. Exactly. I feel like it's going out. I'm just going to pull it away around here. I've actually canceled mine type of money. Yeah, you're financially savvy. Yeah, exactly.

32:34ActiveCampaign is the marketing automation platform built for big swings and big dreams with intelligent suggestions powered by AI and your data. Generate ideas in seconds, import your brand, and create full campaigns with simple prompts. Send personalized messages backed by real-time feedback, smart segmentation, and effortless reporting that tracks every win. Let's redefine what's possible together. Get started for free at ActiveCampaign.com. Parles-tu français?

33:05Grace Beverley: Hablas espagnol? Parli italiano? If you've used Babbel, you would. Babbel's conversation-based technique teaches you useful words and phrases to get you speaking quickly about the things you actually talk about in the real world. With lessons handcrafted by over 200 language experts and voiced by real native speakers, Babbel is like having a private tutor in your pocket. Start speaking with Babbel today. Get up to 55 % off your Babbel subscription right now at babbel.com slash acast. Spelled B-A-B-B-E-L dot com slash acast. Rules and restrictions may apply. Security program on spreadsheets? New regulations piling up?

33:47An audit dread? It's time for Vanta. Vanta automates security and compliance, brings evidence into one place, and cuts audit prep by 82%. Less manual work, clearer visibility, faster deals. Zero chaos. Call it compliance or call it compliance. Get it? Join the 15 ,000 companies using Vanta to prove trust. Go to V-A-N-T-A dot com slash com.

34:15No, I love that. I think for me, it would be, I guess, like similar to that, but it is that idea that you don't have to have money to know how to manage money. Because like I was saying before, in my early 20s when I was on, you know, like my intern fresh out of uni salary, and I really would just like spend my money on whatever and live paycheck to paycheck and you know like pay my rent late because I like I had an online shopping delivery on the way and like just prioritizing the wrong things because I was like well I'm not making any money so what's the point but yeah kind of like what I was saying if you can't manage even if you can't manage ten dollars you can't manage ten thousand let alone and that's not like a shade thing either like that's no it's like we've we've been we've been there and that's the the night before, I think it was my 22nd or 23rd birthday.

35:06And I'd gotten basically down to my last like$150. And I was like, how am I here again? And at that time I was like, I'm 23. Like I should be better. Like I'm so old now. Like I'm an adult. Like I live out of home. I've got my first real job. Like I should be better at money. And I just remember that feeling. And I was like, I don't want to be at my 24th birthday having this exact same feeling. And then so I just set a goal of like putting aside a certain amount into savings every paycheck from then and then that's just only like just by doing that one thing that then has snowballed into so many other financial habits that I now have we also talked a lot about how like early on like when you're younger we also just couldn't save because we didn't earn enough money to you know pay our bills pay rent have a life and then say like it just actually wasn't feasible so I never want anyone who is in that situation because sometimes you just can't sometimes it is paycheck to paycheck that's okay like sometimes you're trying to get into an industry or you've just moved and like that's the only apartment that's available or whatever it is in that situation like that's okay that's not a forever problem like but if you are in that situation where you're going every single dollar I make is going towards something and all of those are necessities that's okay like you're not behind because of that and you're actually probably a lot better with money than you think yeah as well like not having a three-month emergency fund doesn't make you a failure you know like we I don't think I was able to have a savings until I was 26 you know which was one year like I didn't have any savings and I remember sitting with my roommate and at the time and she was like do you have any savings and I was like no do you she's like no okay sweet

37:06Grace Beverley: but that's exactly what's needed because if you think that you're so far behind and everyone else is already sorted like even just as I was saying like even just from the dms we receive on the podcast account like even from that I know that like anyone listening who is in significant credit card debt or buy now pay later debt or like zero savings or whatever it might be like you are not alone in fact you're in very very good company if you think well I'm in this position so I'm going to stay in this position because like it's going to be so hard to get out of it and it's going to take all that time to pay off that debt and like all of that like you are never going to get to that position it's the apathy we're talking about before like you have to convince yourself like even if it's like a little bit of delulu like you have to convince yourself that you are going to get to the place where like i reckon if you looked at your bank account now compared to four years ago and that she told yourself that you would be in that position i think you'd be shocked yeah and it's literally just because of that accumulation over time i don't have enough to pay account yeah I mean, what are you talking about?

38:13I'd be like, don't worry about that, girly. But it's exactly that.

38:16Grace Beverley: And I feel like also what you said, which I think makes a kind of very good point, is like I'm big on setting monthly goals rather than yearly goals. Because I think it's so easy as well. Like you go into New Year, you get all excited, you get that dopamine hit from thinking that you're that person. Like I'm going to run a marathon and be a millionaire. Exactly. and realistically then you get to a point where okay well to do that I would need to save this much a month and you just think I'll do that next month or next month or next month and actually it has to be tangible and it has to be now like for you to actually stick to it it has to be no how much you're saving this month yeah and I feel like that makes such a big difference too because then it's more immediate if you decide to like last minute buy this dress that you absolutely didn't need or whatever.

39:01Grace Beverley: How do you think you get out of that mindset of like, I'll start saving next month? Don't tell anyone. So one of our friends, she is a neuroscientist and literally one of the smartest people I've ever met. I want to be her. If I could crawl into her skin, I would. She unfortunately had two twins. I'm very jealous of them. Her name is Alexis. She has a podcast called Do You Fucking Mind? And she said that when you want to set a goal and you want to achieve it, don't tell anyone. Because I also do think there's a little bit of contradiction to this, because I think talking about money with other people, you know, humanizes it a little bit more.

39:34But when you're setting a goal, if I go to Sal and I go, I'm going to save$2 ,000 this month. And she's like, oh, my God, great job. That's really good. I'm so proud of you. Really good. You should absolutely do that. I just got the dopamine here. Yeah. And I didn't even do it. Ghost. It followed you. It agrees. You brought the guinea. It was like tea. it's like in some victorian outfit like plunging butter yeah we bring it everywhere okay her name's lola um if you tell someone one of your financial goals right you can kind of think about it in two ways it's like either one you have an accountability buddy that's a good thing right i'm very big on like parallel play and like doing things if i need to do my washing sometimes i'm like so can you come over and watch me um and she's like okay I'm like, much.

40:25Yeah. She'll just sit on my laptop while I do my talk. It's amazing. And then, but if you do that in a way that someone kind of congratulates you on it, you get that dopamine hit that you don't actually need to fulfill it anymore. So if you do want to set a financial goal for yourself, one would be set that for you and you don't really need to tell anyone about it. Yeah. And not from a way of protecting yourself of like, what if you don't achieve it, but more from a thing of that's your promise that you're keeping to you. And then the second one is that there's been multiple studies proven that when you name your bank account, your goal, you're like significantly more likely to achieve it.

41:05because every time and serial save to paycheck, paycheck to savings, girly, right? That if I, if my goal is to save$10 ,000, for example, and every time I'm transferring a little bit, a little bit, I'm seeing that number next to that name go up and up and up and it's getting up to that, that name. That's my goal. But every time I go, fuck, I'm going to transfer money out of my savings. I'm buying the round girl. They want tomato. I'm then transferring$200 out. I'm seeing myself get further away from that goal visually. Like I'm visually seeing myself move away from that goal that I have. So that also helps you do it.

41:43And that's one of the things that it's like, I find that really, really helpful when you have that goal as the account name.

41:50Grace Beverley: What is the biggest waste of money that you think many people spend on in your opinion? Oh, did you have one? I think mine personally is the convenience tax. Oh, I love that one. Which is a huge, huge thing for me. And it's like the things that I'll spend money on just to like remove friction from my life. A big example for me was that I used to buy my coffee every single day. And I would be spending at least$8 every single day on my coffee. And for so long, I was like, no, I don't want to buy a coffee machine expensive, blah, blah. I just like convinced myself that no, it's my treat every day.

42:26It's part of my routine. like going to the blah blah like going to the cafe and chatting to the baristas and doing this but like eight dollars a day was I think just under three thousand dollars a year I had been doing that for about six years that's just under twenty thousand dollars on coffee that's sickening so

42:45Grace Beverley: sorry no right no but it's but it's true I'm thinking of my own habits and I feel shame what the fuck is this yeah and then I like finally conceded got a coffee machine and then I was like no now this is part of my routine like getting up and making my coffee every morning and replacing that part it hasn't you know it doesn't mean that I'm depriving myself of that joy that I had every morning getting my coffee it's just different and saving a lot of time and money and that could be applied to so many things like if it's you know paying for the priority delivery when you're getting food delivered, like getting food delivered instead of even just like walking to the restaurant and picking it up.

43:24It's just picking it up. Like express shipping on something when you really could, like the express shipping will get it to you in three days or the regular would get it to you in five. Like do I really need it in three? Like all of those little things that are probably small expenses at the time, but they truly, truly add up. And it's like, was the convenience that I experienced really worth it? A lot of the time, probably not. But sometimes. Sometimes it definitely is. That's something recognising. Yeah, recognising the payoffs that do actually.

43:56Grace Beverley: But I think that's the thing is it's like also when it becomes your normal, then it's not as much of a treat when you actually get it. Actually, it becomes a massive chore to do it yourself. Yeah. So like cooking, for example, becomes a massive chore. Whereas if that is your norm, then when you get the takeout, I remember just getting to a stage in my life where I was like, I remember I was literally sitting on my sofa one Friday and I was like, what should I get for takeout tonight? and then I remember thinking I used to find this so fun like I used to get to Friday and I used to be like oh my god like I'm so excited I would be thinking about it in the days leading up to it I'd be like what am I gonna get I'd be like looking at the menu I'd get so much more joy out of it and then it just became that was like my life and that was my routine and I was ordering in way too much yeah and then I was like since when did it like we would never get takeout as a child yeah Oh, my God.

44:43It was only Friday nights and every other time it was like, no, we've got dinner at home.

44:47Grace Beverley: But like that would be like such a treat. And then you remove the excitement from it. We were talking about this on our podcast last week because we did an episode and it was like expensive shit that's worth it. And heaps of people, we did a poll, would you rather spend your money on luxury experiences or luxury items? And like over, I think it was like 80 % of people said they would rather spend it on experiences. Yeah. And I think like unsurprisingly, it's because the, you know, the dopamine hit and the emotions related to that last longer. And it's called hedonic adaptation. And basically it's how long you get the emotional high from that purchase or from that spend.

45:29Because if you spend money on a designer handbag, for example, or just a handbag, that the longevity of the excitement of that purchase, that one day that bag will just be your handbag. It's not longer exciting. Whereas an experience, years after you go, remember that pasta place in Seattle that was like the best pasta we'd ever had? Or, true story. Yeah, 2019. Or like when we went and watched the fireworks at Disneyland for the first time and like cried, like that always lasts longer. And so the more you kind of like spend money on something that is just a fleeting thing, your brain gets less and less excited for it.

46:08So like that's an actual thing.

46:10Grace Beverley: Yeah. So you're also then removing and changing like your reward system in a way that actually not just removes friction, but removes all reward. So of course, it's not fun for you to save. It's also not really fun for you to spend. So you're in between a rock and a hard place where essentially you need to spend to live your normal standard of living and you don't even enjoy it that much. Like as in, of course, you enjoy it. You like it. And like occasionally you think, wow, it's so nice that I got take out. but like realistically you would have been just as happy if not 20 minutes later that you actually have the food that you coach yourself i went down and i visited one of my best friends in melbourne around christmas time for her birthday and we were like it was friday and we'd all kind of finished like dilly dallying on our work laptops and then i was like okay it's six o 'clock and the sun's shining i need a glass of rosé with a ice in it and then she was like okay we'll grab some and i was like oh i'll just order on uber eats and she looked at me like i had three heads and she was like but this is the thing drive and go get it and i was like you let your standard slip and you let your routine slip yeah and then you suddenly come into contact with someone who hasn't done that and you feel like and i was like you feel terrible because they are literally like why would you ever do that i was like well even just in terms of like taking ubers now because taxis are obviously so much less expensive than they used to be because i remember like if you used to get a taxi anywhere it would be like 35 pounds in london which is like 70 dollars like anywhere because you'd have to pre-book one it would be like quite like it was always an ordeal I remember you used to like when I was at school if it was something that needed a taxi because it was going to be like late after a party or whatever I would literally save up for weeks for the specific taxi whereas now you're like oh I'm late I'll get an uber it's like stop being late like as in like stop being late like as in like as in and don't get me wrong like this this is to me as well but it's like stop doing yourself so dirty that actually that like 10 pound or 20 dollar difference was because you actually just didn't get off your sofa 30 minutes earlier and get ready earlier like as in you just fuck yourself over so much and it's so easy to do that i think the other thing that is one of my like biggest wastes of money is kind of what we were talking about before but it's like aesthetics mining and how every month there's like the new aesthetic and how it's like we've had like clean girl and then tomato girl and then mob wife and then now pool girl and i had a tomato girl tomato girl is like capitalism gone like yeah it's like what could we do next we'll make him a fruit tomato girl like this will work i love this one i literally was seeing like bo writing at tomato and i was like we've lost the pot and like that's the thing is i was like sliving slang slubbing for up until a certain point and i think tomato girl was the one that broke me yeah that we did like an episode like women are not trends because i within that what you're doing is you're constantly trying to buy confidence and if you're constantly trying to buy a confidence and that's something that you're constantly seeking from external validation then you're never actually going to get that and then this year we read a quote and it said if no one was going to see you in it would you still buy it and that altered my brain chemistry so offensively I was like fuck like I was like that damn it and so every time i go to buy you just ruined all my foot i was like it's all of you and you should all be ashamed of yourself you're all right the rest of you get out and then i was like well shit like yeah how many times have i bought something because i had already worn the dress that i owned like this like five times or because I thought I needed something new to give me a confidence boost.

50:07Like these are all things that I think a lot of women get put on because they, you know, feel embarrassed to wear the same thing again, which actually like that's a sleigh. And you never say a man can get one suit. Yeah. An S-suit. Love you guys. Sorry. Yeah, yeah. One suit. That's it. Whereas like women, it's very different. But it's really like if no one was going to see you in it, would you still buy it? If the answer is yes, then go it. Then you know you love it and you know it's like a staple uniform piece to you. Whereas if the answer is like, no, I probably wouldn't, then it's like, just go.

50:43You've already got a gorgeous dress in there, darling. Yeah. Just change your hairstyle. Yeah, exactly. Accessorize. Put some new jewelry on, maybe a belt. Borrow something from a friend. Yeah.

50:53Grace Beverley: I know, underrated. We used to do that so much. Seriously. Because like before fast fashion, I feel like when just, I mean, I think like the fast fashion companies only started coming back when I was like in like last few years of like college like before you know and it was like prior to that point there was no way you could do a haul like a haul was not a thing like you could buy one piece that you save up for and then you get it and like so of course you treasure it whereas like I remember doing my first like boohoo.com haul and being like i am a billionaire like i literally and i was trying on and like one piece and another piece and another piece and it's like that feeling and it's like you're gonna fucking hate those clothes in a month you're never gonna wear them again also you want to dance yeah exactly it's a thing

51:45Grace Beverley: no literally and it's like the difference between that and being able to actually like share your clothes and like like you do on holiday like if you're on a trip and I was just thinking like for example the the clothes I've taken here like I'm obviously wearing them over and over because I'm abroad like I don't have my full wardrobe and then you you put together so many different outfit combinations you get experimental like you'll do and it's like why don't I do this at home because there's fucking 50 ,000 things to choose from every day and then I get so overwhelmed and I wear the same t-shirt seriously there's also so many studies that we don't wear I think it's 70 % of our wardrobe because one we don't remember everything that's in there and two because we can't be fat yeah because we don't actually like it we just bought because we were trying to be a tomato like potato girl yeah so true I'm up for that I have got that aesthetic I don't need to acquire anything we can do the campaign I've already got the look of them down, get a little pasta stain on the top.

52:47Damn. Pasta. Yeah, yeah. Parles-tu français? Hablas espanol? Parle italiano? If you've used Babbel, you would. Babbel's conversation-based technique teaches you useful words and phrases to get you speaking quickly about the things you actually talk about in the real world. With lessons handcrafted by over 200 language experts and voiced by real native speakers, Babbel is like having a private tutor in your pocket. Start speaking with Babbel today. Get up to 55 % off your Babbel subscription right now at babbel.com slash acast. Spelled B-A-B-B-E-L dot com slash acast. Rules and restrictions may apply.

53:33Grace Beverley: How would you say that someone can live their 20s in a way that is enjoyable without like fully like fucking up their future or just generally not putting themselves in the right place for their future yeah I think I want to say as well that like if you're in your 20s and you feel like you don't have control of your money and you haven't been doing all these things we've been talking about like you haven't fucked yourself Like you still have so much time and that it isn't like all hope isn't lost just because, you know, you're 29 and you don't have savings. You know, for example, like you still have so much time to live.

54:13You've had one decade of your adulthood. I think we put a lot of pressure on our 20s to set ourselves up and it's like this is our last chance, our only chance to set ourselves up to success in adulthood. But it's not. But there is definitely things that you can do to help your future sell. and I think a big part of that is kind of like we were saying before but setting up your fun account so that allowing yourself the opportunity to still have those experiences but without living beyond your means because like I was saying before like buying tickets to a concert or you know to an experience or traveling or whatever it is like those are lifelong memories that are truly like identity building core memory building and they will serve you in your 20s and beyond but not if it's like at the expense of you know your other everyday finances or if you're putting yourself into debt for it or putting yourself in a situation where you can't pay for your essentials so if you do set up your account so that you do know how much money you have left over and give yourself room to have fun it will make it so much more enjoyable and sustainable to everything and And, like, I think in Sex and the City in the first season, they were all in their 30s.

55:30Oh, yeah. Yeah. Still in the hot era. Seriously. And I'm like, Carrie had more shoes than she had a house. Not saying do that. But it's like you will also fuck up, like, in your 20s with money and you'll fuck up in your 30s with money. Yeah. And the cycle continues. But it's what you do and what you learn from it. Like, when I was in my 20s, I had buy now, pay later debt. I had like no idea how much I was spending. I was always in overdrawn and getting that like fucking$40 fee every time. I was like, stop that. That it's like just because your relationship with money has been one way doesn't mean it's always going to be that way.

56:11And I think the more that you actually like talk to it and that relationship with it and grow it in your 20s, it doesn't mean you have to be like a budget queen, like doing your spreadsheet every single day. Because, like, if we're honest, like, I don't really know that many 20-year-olds that are going to be like, I love doing my spreadsheet every week. Yeah. But even just, like, looking at your bank account and setting up savers and doing$10 is, like, flexing that muscle. That will pay off that by the time you're 30. You're like, wow, I'm a genius. Yeah. No, I like that. Everyone else.

56:42Grace Beverley: And I think one of the important things that you kind of said there is, like, not seeing things by, like, only one metric. Like, it's not that, I don't know, money is the only metric. It's not that your job is the only metric. It's not that like how much fun you're having is the only metric like for your 20s. Like there are many other metrics. And same with your 30s, same with all of that. It's like what can you do that is going to make it successful, not just in one way. I feel like that's really important. And I'm sure you've seen the article that like is having a boyfriend embarrassing the Vogue article.

57:14Grace Beverley: Yes, I'm kidding. Correct. And I'd love your thoughts on how like financial independence is playing into relationships between men and women at the moment and dating generally and just seeing more of the conversation about that out and about. I love the saying a man is not a financial plan because the gender pay gap is definitely still a huge thing. I know it is in Australia and I'm sure it is in the UK and in lots of places around the world. So it's definitely a thing so I can understand why people end up in relationships and they feel like they are sort of tied to a person because of the financial security that that relationship offers.

58:04And that's a really hard place to be in. And I really empathize with anybody who is in that situation. but we did an episode a while ago and Al shared this study that she read that found that research shows that single women are happier, live longer and earn more than their married counterparts which I thought was very very interesting because I'm sure a lot of people would think the opposite right like you know when we're talking about those milestones that a lot of us feel like we should be hitting in our 20s and 30s if you're in a heterosexual relationship like being in a relationship or being married to a man is probably one of those milestones right yeah that a lot of people do feel a lot of pressure and like the same can't be said for men when like we're reading through this research like marriage actually appears to benefit men and their well-being and so it's like do men need women a lot more than women need men I don't know

59:04Grace Beverley: well I think that you're showing well I think one of the most interesting things that like I've been having lots of conversations with friends about at the moment is like there's still this kind of ethos or conversation around men providing which I get like of course that's still going to be a conversation and you know when you're talking about the gender pay gap all of that like I totally understand it particularly when women have to take time off work if they're going to have kids and all of this and naturally end up with less money because of that all of that that being said like younger women in lots of areas are now out earning men so if they're coming into a relationship earning usually an equivalent amount then the requirement from men in terms of like what they bring to relationship naturally has to be not just financial which i think this is the first generation where we've really seen that as like requirements i think in like past recent generations we've definitely seen more and more of like well yeah of course you would choose to be with someone not just so that you can have a bank account which in the 80s it's still like it would be like women literally couldn't have a credit card or a bank account without a coastline literally in the 80s yeah so since that point it's like okay well if you're both providing financially and we know that women are still taking on the lion's share of like unpaid housework like the you know the cooking the cleaning all of that emotional labor yeah then like well it just needs to change like as in like what makes a relationship appealing other than companionship now has to be it's like our standards need to rise because our standards were only at a certain level in the past because that was the only way you could get access to a bank account or live in society and be provided for yeah and actually it's like we now have permission both like societally and financially pretty much for one of the first generations to actually like ask for more from relationships and therefore not just like look to it as I don't know a means for companionship and said like why isn't your life improving like twofold like if you're combining with someone else like why isn't it because you're going to have to compromise on lots of things and I think that that's been one of the biggest shifts in terms of like how I'm seeing other people think about relationships one thousand percent even if it's not necessarily in practice yeah and even though like we share that statistic as well like we're both in long-term relationships as well we're not being like yeah boo anyone that's in a loving relationship or anything like that it's more about the fact that like these are actually things that you need to be on the same page with with your partner and you do have to have like conversations of okay well if I take time off work to raise our children will you you know put money towards my super because I won't be doing super like those are the conversations that you need to have and have a partner and every single woman deserves a partner that will have that conversation and wants to be on the same page and wants to support each other yeah and like recognizes the unpaid labor that women contribute every single day yeah and like it needs to become paid to some extent or at least protected there was do you know the page female and best yes they're amazing they actually put all of the um costs of what it would be to be a stay-at-home mom per annum and i think it was around 244 i'm not surprised i'm not surprised at all yeah because also like when you see okay i always think like when you see those like day in the life of a private chef videos on tiktok i'm like that is so many women in their own home like as in proof it is a full-time job when on top of that also looking after the kids also doing this also doing that there was also a study that came out the other day that was based in the UK but it was the fact that women generally end up with I think it's like 50 to 100 ,000 and this is off the top of my head so I might be getting it wrong but I know it's approximately this 50 to 100 ,000 pounds more student debt because when they are on maternity leave it's not paused and the way it works essentially is if your earnings then drop off nothing's set up to mean that that could be like it is acknowledged that you were doing different type of work during that time and so getting paid off and it's the same as like there's an 100 grand uk pension gap too like when you're working you are contributing a percentage of your earnings to your pension so if you take time off for work you are not going to be contributing to your pension and it's all of these invisible things those two alone that's 150 to 200 grand over a lifetime that is years worth of pension seriously like that is years worth of being able to live and like years worth of disposable income and those are the like noticeable ways that we're seeing like even when you don't look at the gender pay gap where there are statistical differences between male and female finances and therefore it's like okay well what can we do to protect against that like first of all there's lots of legislation stuff that we could talk about until the cows but it's like what can we do personally to ensure that actually by the time you get into a relationship and like by the time you have kids with someone you know exactly what that person needs to be like what their ethos needs to be like as you say you have conversations around like what are you gonna do values yeah like what are you gonna do if I decide to that we need to I need to take three years off because otherwise paying for childcare doesn't make sense because it's more than my salary or like all of these different things.

1:04:34Grace Beverley: And it's like those are big conversations that kind of need to be had early and seem to still only be penalizing the woman. Yeah. And money conversations in relationships can be really uncomfortable things. And so often money is what comes between relationships. So being able to have those conversations is honestly one of the most strengthening things that you can do. No, I totally, totally agree. And I feel like it's very easy to think of like relationships and finances as like very different things. And like naturally you're not going to speak about them. Yeah, exactly. And I'm turned on, what do you mean?

1:05:12Grace Beverley: Yeah, exactly. Like tell me when you're going to transfer me. I paid for takeaway. You're$34.50? but it's like it has to be part of it just as if it's like if you're applying for a new job you're going to ask about the remuneration yeah like this is like your relationship if it's going to be long term it's probably going to have more of an impact on your finances than that so it's like the conversation yeah and I just and everyone has different ways that they would look in it but personally I would never want to be in a position where I had to rely solely on a man to feel financially independent.

1:05:52I think financial independence is so incredibly important to me. I want to be able to support myself and like with how everyone runs their relationship and their finances in relationships is completely up to them. But for me, it's like my money is my money. And I'm sure that will probably evolve, you know, if I decide to have children with my partner and stuff like that. But you can still pay into joint accounts. Like me and my husband pay into joint accounts.

1:06:18Grace Beverley: But it's like my money is my money. Yeah. We're not merging salaries. I don't merge any of my money with my partner. It doesn't make sense. But we have a joint account that goes towards our bills. Yeah. To your joined expenses. Yeah. And like raising a child or having a home would be an example of one of those joint expenses. Hey, child, you are expensive. You are 70 % his, 30 % mine. It's dinners on the table. Clearly. But yeah. And like, again, everyone has different ways that they do it. But for me, that's how I feel secure that I love my partner so much. But if there was ever a situation in the world, which hopefully, fingers crossed, never is, that I'm like, no, not working anymore.

1:06:58I can support myself and I can do whatever I want to do. Someone called it on social media, they call it fuck you money. And that every woman needs fuck you money. So that if they ever want to say fuck you to their job, they want to say fuck you to their partner or their ex. if they want to say fuck you to just the world and go live in another country and just go do they need like their fuck you fund to be like fuck this fuck you i'm out and that they can do that

1:07:27Grace Beverley: and i love that ethos yeah and i think that that is like that is the best form of self-respect that you can give yourself is like and i understand that it's difficult and it's not going to be like built up over a few months yeah but it's like it you have to be thinking about it in some way yeah it's really scary this like rhetoric that we've seen growing more and more online of like how you know men they're like i want to come home and have a turkey roasting and you're in a my butter churning and the kids are asleep and you're not stressed because i'm stressed and i'm Yeah. What? Yeah. But also just statistically, it just doesn't work.

1:08:07Grace Beverley: Because as I've said, like, now what's happening is like in particularly younger professionals, men and women are earning equally, which is what everyone's been working towards. Unfortunately, though, women are doing four hours more unpaid labor a week in a relationship without children. So, like, imagine what that goes to when it's a relationship with children. And it's like, literally. I love women. but like where is that difference then in terms of like where do where does that even out because it's like okay well it just doesn't make any sense like that would never work in a business partner relationship you know but also women like the pink you then it's very easy to go down like rabbit hole being like well this is all fucked because like then you look at the pink tax and how women spend on average I think it was$1 ,300 more on like universal products than men like even down to things like like you've got razors but you can even look at things like a t-shirt like it's the same product but just because it's under the men's section of a website it's actually cheaper or jeans like whatever it is and it's the deeper into it because we did one on the hidden costs of being a woman and we were like i'm gonna light something fire i was like i think fire is the best fruit from this but yeah it was crazy so i think with those it is very easy to go this sucks like i really hate this but knowledge only allows you to make choices that you know equip you for stronger choices in the future yeah no i think that's well i think that's the perfect place to end before we do i'm gonna ask you the question i ask everyone which is what is the best piece of advice that you have ever received?

1:09:52Grace Beverley: I'm like, I had a few and now I have choice paralysis. I know anytime anyone asks me this question, I'm like, I've never received advice. Literally, you're like, it's like when people ask your favorite brands or like your favorite thing and you're like, I've never shopped. I don't know what you're talking about. Okay. My favorite piece of advice or like a mantra or a life lesson that I've had is that you're living your golden years right now. I think a lot of us have nostalgia for things that have happened in the past or, you know, we look at either the past or the future and we're like, that was the best or like in a year, this is where I'm going to be.

1:10:27But you actually have the power to make right now the best years of your life or the best time of your life. And like, there's going to be good days and bad days in every single decade or period of your life. But just taking stop of those moments that are those little things that you will feel nostalgic about in, you know, a year, five years, 10 years can actually allow you to be present and enjoy those things that I've met.

1:10:51Grace Beverley: Yeah, I love that. Mine's really weird, but it's like, you're going to die one day. And I'm like, if I'm sitting here getting so upset or frustrated about something that I'm like, is this going to matter in three months? No. Then like, okay, come on. Like, not every day is going to be fun and beautiful and playful. But like for me, like if you go to therapy, you do that like five values task and it's really good for anyone who hasn't done it. You go to therapy, ask. It's great. You'll enjoy it. But for me, like fun and play is such a big value for me. There was this article that was published from a lady that works in like hospice care and it was the regrets of the dying.

1:11:30And whenever I feel like out of touch with like my stress levels or I'm sad or I'm focusing on things that I don't think matter, I remind myself and I read those things because I'm like, this doesn't matter. Like if this tiny thing, if this like fight with your friend because they didn't ask you to come to brunch, but it was last minute or like, you know, this 3 p.m. marketing meeting, I'm like, am I going to care about this when I'm like 80? Is this really the big thing? If yes, then like, okay, then what do we, how do we fix it? Because this doesn't feel nice to feel this way. Yeah. So I'm like, whenever I'm being like a little mopey-poo, I'm like, you're going to die one day.

1:12:07Be sorted out. Yeah. Yeah. A bit morbid, but it works. It works. Yeah. If it ain't broke. It helps. And if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

1:12:16Grace Beverley: Oh, well, thank you so much. You have been incredible. You're amazing. I feel like we could talk forever. Oh, my God. I'm like literally going to crawl under this table and stay here. Perfect. Well, I've only rented this place in the day, so I'll be up. If your suitcase is really heavy on the way, though, don't open it. Don't ask questions. You will need to buy new clothes. Actually, no, you won't. Thank you so much. Thank you so much.

1:13:01Business is booming, but you know what really helped? Zero, the accounting platform for small businesses. I used to think unpaid bills were just part of it. But batch payments? Wow. Automated accounts payable? Even better. All in one place? That's a big one. And I can keep track from my phone while I get the job done. No bills in sight. What a life. Do right by yourself and your business and search XERO for your free trial. Conditions apply. Parles-tu français? Hablas espagnol? Parle italiano? If you've used Babbel, you would. Babbel's conversation-based technique teaches you useful words and phrases to get you speaking quickly about the things you actually talk about in the real world.

1:13:46With lessons handcrafted by over 200 language experts and voiced by real native speakers, Babbel is like having a private tutor in your pocket. Start speaking with Babbel today. Get up to 55 % off your Babbel subscription right now at babbel.com slash acast. Spelled B-A-B-B-E-L dot com slash acast. Rules and restrictions may apply. Security program on spreadsheets, new regulations piling up, and audit dread? It's time for Vanta. Vanta automates security and compliance, brings evidence into one place, and cuts audit prep by 82%. Less manual work, clearer visibility, faster deals. zero chaos. Call it compliance or call it compliance.

1:14:31Get it? Join the 15 ,000 companies using Vanta to prove trust. Go to Vanta.com slash com.