“Nothing Tastes as Good as Skinny Feels”: How to Prepare for GLP-1's Radical Impact on Food & Drink with Unilever, Carlsberg Britvic and Mintel #24

31:20Gone are the days where you could only have a qualitative research focus group every six months to a year in case you had a good idea. The pace of consumer change and the way that habits are evolving with speed means you need to proactively engage. So if you're not fully engaging with your consumers, if you're not tracking them, if If you're not engaging with them, if you're not keeping up to date with their habits, you will launch and you will be too late. And Jen, this is music to my ears because from an R &D perspective, we want to understand what consumers need at the very start of doing any changes.

31:55If we're going to develop a whole new platform, for example, of new drinks, new developments in our area, we need to know that that's rooted in a real consumer need. but also a real consumer understanding of what that could be so obviously it's amazing what technologies we have in my wonderful lab team have magically making potions and uh back in the office but if there isn't that consumer understanding and that consumer need it's all wasted that work and actually this glp1 situation really helps bring it to the full and really helps showcase what exactly we need to focus on and how we can develop products that really delight consumers.

32:38And just talking about that then, specifically from a product and R &D perspective, how are GLP-1s changing the actual product kind of consumption experience? I've read a lot about a move away from chocolatey, creamy kind of textures and tastes into fresher, lighter, flavourful tastes. Is that true? Is that what you're seeing as well? I think it's multidimensional, but absolutely it is a general shift. So I'm sure this is where Rob can add his nutrition lens, but really consumers are typically looking for those lighter flavours, lighter touches, because that heavy, rich, creamy characters can just be too much on their more delicate systems.

33:21you don't want to be triggering nausea you don't want to be triggering sort of any of those side effects so you want to make sure you're supporting people and the sensory experience of those products is fundamentally important not just to say this food is going to support you and give you the nutrition you need and that sort of halo but also to say what the brand is trying to stand for and make people feel like they're really enjoying that moment i think it's very easy to sort of paint a brush strokes of saying it needs to be high protein it needs to be this it needs to be that but actually what's really important is making sure that if people aren't eating as much every single bite matters and every single product experience it has to deliver to them i agree but it doesn't become a health halo if you're producing food that generally stands up to the claim and it is nutritious i think one of the problems we have with any product that falls into this you know if the food industry makes this a niche that becomes a diet then we're going to end up with an influx of foods that are produced quite cheaply so the protein is going to become a protein isolate to reduce the bulk the fiber is going to be become whatever it is inulin will get added vitamins and minerals and mulchifiers to change the mouthfeel of the product to make it more do you see what i mean and i think that's one of the risks we have with this becoming a glp category of food is we end up with a load of ultra processed foods when what you need i don't know there's companies like bold foods for example they do those nice little high protein parts with all the vegetables and everything else the fiber that kind of thing i think more products like that are probably what we need more than essentially diet products one of the one of the challenges though is consumers don't have a good understanding of what is a nutritional meal so the high protein claim for example well we we over consume protein we don't need more protein um we actually need more fiber but fiber is not as big a claim so i think that that's one of the challenges that kind of education piece yeah but that comes into like i said you can be part of that narrative as the food industry to help to educate people with the right information instead of them going to social media and figuring out or tiktok which is where most people get their nutrition information from to figure out how to make it work i don't think people really access the government websites and stuff every day but then go to the nhs website or anything else to find their information So I think there's an opportunity there to help people to understand because they don't even know what they're looking for to start with.

35:49And that's where you've got sensory signposts. You can give people product experiences that ladder up to both. Oh, I'm feeling pretty comfortable having eaten this thing. I feel satisfied. All those wonderful things. And then the messaging and the sort of information behind it to say why that is the case. People shop with their eyes. They shop with packaging. Even if the food and drink industry sat and gave out all this information, getting that through to a consumer's behavioural patterns is very difficult. I think also, just to build on that, I think making nutritious food accessible is also really important.

36:23It's really important. And I think this isn't just about branded players. It's also got to do with private label manufacturers and retailers who also have a responsibility to provide the right type of nutritious meals for their consumers at an accessible price point. Otherwise it becomes a luxury, right? To help part of the solution. It just becomes another privileged area. But outside of that, there's an opportunity for these foods also to go into the sector of catering companies, hospitals, NHS, I don't know, discounted food to people on GLP-1s. The scope is really big for this whole low appetite eating area.

37:01And it doesn't just have to be around fancy food products. So what's going to happen in the short term is brands are going to look at their portfolio and go, okay, what works for GLP One users, right? What have we got already that fits? And they're likely to put a stamp on it that says GLP One user friendly. That's likely to happen. You're starting to see that already. and then clearly there's going to need to be some big work behind the scenes to go okay evolution of this looks like what both from a brand and an r &d perspective my question is this though is r &d takes a long time you know there is there's trials and there's years of work that needs to go on behind the scenes isn't it all gonna happen too late you know what are you guys working on it now because actually stuff is shifting really, really fast.

37:54Growth rates are pretty big. Consumer habits are changing. What needs to happen now? What needs to happen tomorrow to get businesses like Carlsberg, Britvik, like Danone, like PepsiCo, Kraft Heinz, all these brilliant CPG companies, what needs to happen now to get them ready? So actually, we are all working on it. I'm absolutely sure that full list of brands you just mentioned are all working on this. Where we're focusing our energies on is on that hydration space. A lot of previous diet cultures have focused very much on what people eat, and that's where all the energy has been going. But actually, what a lot of the GLP-1 communication is about hydration, water, getting more water in, and that's helping towards some of that longevity of what happens for those yo-yo dieters coming off the drug.

38:44If they can keep maintaining hydration, that can help and absolutely we're looking constantly at ways of making hydrating options more accessible to everyone and that i i know there is obviously water coming out of the tap i know we that anyone can grab a glass of water pretty much or at least we are all in that privileged situation but it's about giving people choices and giving people accessible hydration and our teams are constantly working on how to improve that for consumers across our portfolio across the different areas and things like when you asked me about the flavors it's things like bringing some more complexity to our flavors it's about bringing things like botanicals it's about mixing both function with real flavor execution and delivery we know that glp1 users are less likely to want a very fizzy or very carbonated product so we're looking at ones that are less carbonated or are more subtle that are more sophisticated those things are already being developed or already out there but they're just gaining momentum and i know that people like danone people um other businesses are working incredibly hard to do the same sort of parts and like jen said work out different channels and and just just a point on drinking there because it's a it's an interesting implication you talked about consumers maybe not wanting fizzy carbonated drinks that a good description of beer absolutely you work for karlsberg britbit i do indeed and actually this is where it really gives us an opportunity because yes beer consumption varies it fluctuates a lot and a lot of it goes back to that social moment that jen and i were talking about earlier it's all about tied in with some of those much more social gatherings and it's about making those experiences matter and that's where beer soft drinks and non-alcoholic beers really still provide an opportunity for consumers maybe the the volumes won't be the same and people be more discerning about the beers they select.

40:46And this is why choice really matters. But absolutely, we see this from ourselves as much more of an opportunity rather than sitting there thinking, oh my goodness, panic stations. Definitely. I mean, it follows a similar trajectory, doesn't it? It's the kind of evolution of the non-alc movement and in general moderation. Consumers want brilliant experiences and brilliant drinks that just happen to be non-alcoholic. And it's a kind of taste first desire. And I think that's what we're agreeing with here is whatever this becomes, it's a taste first desire. However small, however nutritionally dense, it is a taste first play.

41:24And yeah, I think brands, the opportunity is great food experiences, smaller, better, delivers a sort of maybe a micro indulgence hit. Can I just make a couple of points as well? One is that you can't from a regulatory perspective, say GLP friendly on pack, can't make that claim. can in the US, you can't in Europe. At the moment. Secondly, why would you want to make that claim? Because you're basically corralling yourself into potentially quite a niche segment. And consumers, there is a stigma for a lot of consumers around GLP. Would they want to be seen buying that in a supermarket? Would they want to identify themselves with that label?

42:00I doubt it. I think the bigger opportunity is around kind of creating more positive, kind of enjoyable diet-friendly foods um so claims like high satiety or potentially high protein and fiber um you know more positive claims rather than the calorie counting that we saw in the 90s which is very reductive and rob just a sorry last point about drinking what does it do from a consumer perspective what are we starting to see consumers on glp1s what does it do for their alcoholic consumption alcohol consumption does it does it put people off or does it make no no impact uh they don't want to drink as much and i'm in the majority i think that's probably what you found from from working with your company um the alcohol just tastes harsher and it's the same not just alcohol you know coffee might give you heartburn or the fizzy drinks just are not very palatable anymore so i think you know i think that it's looking for different solutions um that are like you said you're working with botanicals smaller serving sizes, all that kind of stuff that still gives people that experience, which is really great.

43:11Yeah. And making this like everything with this food, it needs to be aspiration and not feel like you're somehow having to, what's the word I'm looking for? Compromise. Yes. That you're having to compromise because you're having less of it. And I think that that's really important. I think if I was an alcohol producer, sorry, I would be really, really worried because there's already kind of consumers have a lot of good reason to give up on alcohol um you know it's not as trendy amongst young people as it was they're drinking less it's really expensive and across the living crisis people are much more health conscious now so they get another reason to give up that's potentially taking you know a lot of people out the market yeah i think it's it's about presenting beer and alcohol at drinks in a slightly different way than perhaps we have before there's been very much the sort of at least in the UK, the pub culture, the I'm going to go and watch the football in the pub with my mates, that kind of style.

44:03And I think where this could pivot towards is much more about tailoring together food and drink as a whole, rather than saying it's two separate things. You have a pint and a burger and they're two separate entities. And actually it's about collaborating and combining those experiences to make every aspect of that meal have a value, have a real enjoyment factor to go to that emotional zone, but also to give the functional filling needs that people have. So it's that balance and trade-off. And I think, yes, we might have smaller portions. We might have flights of beer, for example, rather than big pints or pitchers.

44:41And I think that's where this mentality with consumers will transition and that's where we have to keep up with it. And that's kind of how I see it. Yeah, I think you're right. I think it's a huge opportunity, right? Huge opportunity from a drinking perspective to cater for new needs, new desires. We've actually got a podcast on that in a couple of weeks' time, a kind of social beverages, future of drinks podcast. So a lot of that we'll play into there. Just moving slightly towards, in a similar way, sort of socializing and restaurants. And we joked about Heston Blumenthal and the Fat Duck, and maybe that's probably an extreme.

45:17but yeah what what does this mean for hospitality what does this mean for portion sizes obviously at restaurants and is there going to be different menus and obviously experience is still very very important but are you going to go and want to spend 40 50 quid if you're only going to get a bite of of something you know what what's it going to do to to that world do you think you can find restaurants where you can go and eat if you're on GOP once a lot of restaurants have moved to small plates you can order to use a starter you can there's ways to manage that but i think for me probably restaurants need to maybe introduce another serving size that isn't a bit condescending it's just a i don't know how you would name it i don't know what it is but you know at the moment you've got adults and kids you've got starters and mains so maybe we just need to introduce something a bit different like the light light section yeah definitely and also maybe as a consumer, you need to not be embarrassed with GLP ones of asking to take food away with you or, you know, change that way that you behave in a restaurant as well if they don't have the right portion size for you.

46:22So I think there's lots of different angles to it. I think the thing with Heston Blumenthal is absolutely ridiculous. I'm sorry, but you're not going to turn it into this luxury way of eating and charging more money for it when all it is, is whole foods, which is what it produces anyway. I mean, to me, that's just crazy. And I don't think any of this should be come with a cost tag like that a hefty cost tag i guess that just reflects that at the moment it's people who are very affluent who are on these drugs so therefore the the premiumization strategy is the kind of obvious route to go yeah um like vital pursuits by nestle it's like 60 more expensive than the biggest competitor in the market because you know you can't afford to be on these drugs you're earning a lot of money and that gets into a pretty big question about wealth and health, doesn't it?

47:11You would say Rob has influenced culture forever. Yeah, totally. It's not just about these drugs. These drugs have introduced a association with wealth that comes with taking these drugs, but food has always been associated with wealth and luxury. Some people can afford better food that comes often with better nutrition and a better lifestyle. Some people sit in the middle somewhere, then the people on lower incomes often end up turning to ultra-processed foods. The irony being with the drugs that the people that really need them are generally the people that don't have a lot of money because those people often have high rates of obesity.

47:48So there is this sort of inequality and it's just going to broaden. You know, people, if thinness becomes a thing that's associated with wealth and desired by wealthy people, then that inequality is just going to get wider and wider as people that can't afford it become more stigmatized. So it is interesting how that could pan out with the wealth side of things, but it's always been here. Yeah, and the market will dictate what consumers want to do as well. I think innovation, everything we've talked about today points to innovation. Innovation in terms of thinking, innovation in brand thinking, innovation in natural R &D thinking, restaurant thinking, all of that stuff.

48:24So I think if I was a CMO or a CAO, I'd be thinking, okay, at a broad level from an innovation perspective, what do we have to do? and how do we get ourselves ready for some of this change. Culturally, let's just talk about culture for a moment. Johnny, the question is why now, right? GLPs actually have been around for years. What's propelled them into the mainstream over the last 18 months, two years or so? I think it's the fact that there's an obesity epidemic. So obesity rates worldwide have almost more than doubled since the 1990s. I think we're a lot more health conscious society as well.

49:03And then suddenly people have realised that these drugs can work for more than diabetes. So I think it was already becoming a big issue. No country, I think, has ever managed to reduce their rate of obesity. So suddenly you've got something that can potentially solve that. And of course, that's creating a lot of hype. I also think to build on that, consumers are taking more and more control of their health. I think COVID did a lot for that. We suddenly were all on our own. We were all trying to look after our own health the best way we knew how, whether that was wet wiping your groceries or taking vitamin C.

49:39We were doing our best and it was kind of put a little bit on us because of that social distancing. And now there's an element of momentum from that. People want to continue some of that control and this could give that for those who are affluent enough to be able to afford it themselves or to work with the health providers to get that structure in place as well i think also the um the challenges we have on our national health care system both in the us and the uk i think there's also another driving force behind this because we know that the obesity and diabetes are some of the leading causes of the pressure in the on the nhs and so even from a government point of view, this is a solution or part of the solution.

50:22Productivity as well. To try and, you know, to try and so it's actually also in their interest to accelerate the adoption. And I think that's one thing to watch is if governments start to purposely accelerate because of the benefits on the national health systems, you might see adoption rates speed up or accessibility speed up um more than what we have anticipated in the past they're taking a very cautious approach at the moment though so while that could happen it doesn't look like it at the moment but no that's not true of the u.s no u.s is going gung-ho straight straight ahead they're the guinea pigs um let's hope there are no nasty side effects but it becomes quite dystopian you know you've got a drug you've got your statins for your cholesterol you've now got your glp ones for that you're probably going to turn to some sort of fortified food to feed yourself you know at some point like you said earlier with this joy of food emotionally we have to maintain that otherwise you do run the risk of it all just becoming very clinical to manage your health you know that's that's another reason i wonder would you want to lose that joy of food like is it worth it you know the cure that's what a lot of people say i came off it because i just wasn't enjoying food anymore i wasn't enjoying going out for dinner i wasn't enjoying sitting with my family eating you know so it's a bonding emotionally vital kind of experience we've talked about you know throughout humanity it's been been one of the glues yeah so if you strip that away that's going to potentially have some adverse kind of side effects and i think actually this leads to a wider health question about dieting in the diet culture which is i think so much has been focused like you said on calories in calories out get in a deficit go to the gym and actually i think so much more probably needs to be focused on that emotional well-being that mindful side to food and to for people to tap more closely into their fullness and their emptiness that's the wrong word just their satiety yeah exactly their satiety cues and And it's not something that I think we are as familiar with.

52:26We did it as children, but we've kind of forgotten it. And actually going back to that, those roots would be really helpful. And that's very much a public health messaging. So in the UK, you know, we've always been like desk diners, you know, saying food is fuel. You go to Italy, they will, you know, in Spain, they will take a lunch break and properly enjoy their food. So there's a cultural aspect to that as well. but I doubt people are going to take more time with their food because life's speeding up they're not getting any slower I think AI is going to speed up slightly even more so where do you find the time to slow down although I agree I'd love to hope that at a meal time would be a great time to slow down but you'd like to hope so yeah just going back to what a point was made earlier you know that infamous cake moss t-shirt nothing tastes as good as skinny feels right that was a big kind of, I guess, cultural signal back in the 90s, you could argue that we are starting to see the first signs of progress from that point, the kind of body positivity movement, real beauty by Dove, strong, not skinny, all of that stuff.

53:38That kind of culture current, which actually has been mainstream for the last 10 or 15 years. Obviously, it's not quite as simple as that. It's not linear progress, but that has been in the cultural zeitgeist. If a pill can make you skinny, will the cultural pendulum swing in the other direction? It's already swung. Yeah, we've gone right back to the 1990s. No wonder Oasis are back in. We've definitely gone back to that point. And as much as people say, oh, it's body positivity, that's all great. this has really exposed the fact that deep down people are desperate to be skinny yeah that t-shirt of Kate Moss's was not good but kind of on the point I don't think being skinny and thin is ever going to go away and I controversially I think whatever anybody says about how happy they are with their body and everything else I think there's very few that truly believe that and I think a lot of them will always want to be slimmer and you know you see some big voices in that movement like the singer Lizzo now talking about GLP ones and that is quite sad because I felt like she was one of the biggest proponents of this and you know I think again you just got to be really careful the media needs to stop putting pictures out there of before and after celebrities because this is also driving it they're not going to do it they're going to keep doing it right and that's just the way it is so but how are people meant to make informed choices 100 % it's impossible But for me, from a cultural perspective, we've talked about joy and comfort and the happiness of eating and connection.

55:11Does that get trumped by the desire to look good and be skinny? I think for a lot of people. Not everybody, though. I was going to say, I think it's different strokes for different folks on this one. I think there'll always be the people who absolutely will want to be thin above all else and are prepared to. And I think there'll be people who really want to indulge and enjoy food. And I think this is going to be a really interesting way how it plays out and why, yes, you need your food for function and to make sure people are getting nutrients that they seek and need. But hopefully there's still room for those indulgent moments to make sure we are still connected.

55:50Just getting people to enjoy food without excess. And that's often the problem is, you know, you can be a foodie, you can absolutely love food, but it's just trying to do it in the right way. So you're not... I think one of the big positives about GLP-1 is it could shift people away from ultra-processed foods. Because I think what they've done is kind of program people to eat very, very quickly because of the texture, because of the flavors. and um i think they've kind of eroded listening to your your body and listening to your body's signals so i think that that's that's a potential real positive and actually to build on things like the the complexity and flavor point we're making earlier i think it it actually gives that real opportunity to do things differently i think you're absolutely right i think having those moments that we can slow down we can savor our food we can enjoy it that's where it opens up opportunities for um food and drinks manufacturers to drive more complexity into their products to have more levels of flavors to have more textual differences rather than just looking at how is this going to function how is this going to deliver or and not necessarily optimizing dare i say to liking but actually the the whole brand perception the whole proposition that you're looking for it a lot of the work we've done has been very um liking and hedonic driven but actually it's much more about that circumstance the experience the situation that people are exposed to these products in jen the point about uh a kind of cultural divide culture currents moving in two different ways and that body body positivity idea should not go away and it won't go away but there is as as johnny said has the pendulum actually already swung back to kind of a view of skinny and and you know wanting to to have that kind of beach body ready um to cite another kind of cultural signal a few years ago how do brands tread that line i think that there's um something really important about staying true and authentic to your brand positioning and purpose i think you need to be able to as a brand authentically engage in culture and engage on topics in a way that is authentic to what you stand for and not just tread the latest trend because that's what everyone's talking about.

58:19The moment brands start to engage on topics that are not relevant to their products, not relevant to their brand positioning at all, which sometimes happens, you instantly lose credibility and consumers are no longer interested in listening to brands that are in it just to make a quick buck so the authenticity piece is really important i think also when it comes to the culture around body image i think right now in our social media society we are so hyper fragmented that people are actually living in their own echo chambers and while we might think that things are swinging in one direction because that's what the media are saying.

59:03Actually, individuals in their own social echo chambers and their own Instagram reels are following people that they're emotionally connecting to or are resonating with. And if I'm someone who is desperately looking for positive body images and positivity in my life, and I'm following a whole bunch of influences in that space, that's the messaging I'm going to be receiving, even though the bigger trends, macro trends are changing in one way or the other. So I think making sure the brands stay on point, making sure that they're relevant and authentic to who and what they stand for is important, but also picking up in their communities when they want to engage on certain topics is really important.

59:46And I guess to your point earlier, you know, just don't stop listening to your consumer. Stay close, stay close. And the more engaged you are, the more engaged you are with the fans, the more they will respond to you. And so even in the hyper-fragmented marketing world that we're seeing now, brands are creating fan-based communities to engage with those consumers. And that's going to be the heartland of marketing in the future. You're going to have to engage with your consumers one-to-one based on what they know and create fan bases based on those topics and what they want to hear from you. Last question here, and we probably will wrap up then.

1:00:29If we're going to take out of this session is going to be, what are the implications? If you're a CEO, CMO of a food and drink business in UK, US, global, what should you be thinking about is the question. And I guess not just thinking about, but what should you be doing? what we're going to do we're going to go across all four and say what is the one thing what is the one biggest implication that you think will come of this and and a question really that underpins this is how faddy is this how how um dramatic is this really going to be you've seen a huge amount of variation in the media mckinsey put this is the number one thing that's going to impact food and drink.

1:01:20The press are all over it. Even airlines are talking about the profit they're going to make because they don't need to use as much fuel because people are lighter. I think we're a few years away from that potentially, but the implications and the ramifications are potentially huge. Rob, starting with you as we did the conversation, what do you think is the number one, the biggest implication that we're going to see come out of this movement? i don't know about implication i can only tell you what i would like to see and that's that we don't end up with a niche category of foods and that what we actually have is that we're normalizing small niche dense meals for everybody that's what i would like to see okay johnny um i would say for brands uh don't rush in you know pause don't buy into the media hype um this could be massive it could also be quite niche we don't know yet um absolutely be ready you know have your your pipeline in place um but don't overreact okay from my side it's very much look at the opportunity rather than focus on the worries and think about how we can innovate to really deliver for consumers i think you know building off johnny's point there it could filter into nothing, but it still will be a very, very effective way to fuel a pipeline of innovation and make sure all brands stay relevant and with consumers at the heart, just like Jen said.

1:02:49And Jen? I would have two things. The first is double down on emotional branding now. Any emotional marketing or branding as a business, that is your goal best. You need to double down with speed on that. And I think the second point would be know your consumer, predict when you think there's going to be a tipping point for your category and have your innovation and pipeline ready, both from a technology point of view, but from a product and flavor and format point of view as well. Almost based on numbers, right? Like based on your data. And know when you're going to pull the trigger or when you choose not to pull the trigger, but be prepared for it.

1:03:27You don't want to be reacting to this. You want to proactively be ready to respond. Thank you very much for everyone's input. I guess some of the takeouts that we're hearing and the general consensus seems to be wake up, doesn't it? It seems to be this is happening. This is potentially very big. Don't just listen to the media. Look underneath at some of the real data, Johnny, that you talked about to understand the size and the growth of it, the differences between the UK and the US, what this might mean, not just across the industry, but across culture. and society as well. I think there's some really big takeouts and very helpful, I hope, to some of the audience.

1:04:08But thank you guys for coming in and helping out. Thanks for having us. And of course, thank you for listening. I'm Jamie Holton. This is you, me and CPG. I'll see you next time.