552: Not a Saturated Year

44:27They won't be making that by then. Yeah, that's true. Well, maybe we might be in an up cycle, and they'll actually be selling one of those, and it'll be just a gigantic beast. But still, when you think about the amount of power, the phone is probably the hardest in terms of just there being so many of them out there in the world. But the amount of power that some of these devices use, even as efficient as they are, and over the lifetime of that device, my God, that's a substantial thing. I think they might just be talking about the manufacturing chain until you buy it. After that, you're on your own.

44:58With the exception of them offsetting the charging of the Apple Watches, I don't think they're saying they're going to offset the power usage of all the devices they sell after 2030. I think it's just like the manufacturing of it. They specifically called out the charging as part of the Apple Watch. They're estimating how much power all the Apple Watches will use and counting that in. So are they going to estimate all the power all the Macs will use? No, I don't think so. I think it's just basically the process by which we make all of our products will be carbon neutral. I think they meant what I think.

45:29We'll find out in 2030, I guess, because they did confuse things with the Apple Watch charging thing. So we'll see. Yeah. I mean, we will find out, like you said. Plus, I wouldn't worry about the Mac Pro because in 2030, there will be literally one of them and it will be sitting in your house. We have to consult the star charts, though, because it goes in cycles, right? Yeah. Boom and bust. So I don't know. We might be in a boom cycle by then. Yeah, I doubt that. And even still, there will be one and it will be in your house. It's okay. But look, even if they ignore the Mac for this, which they won't.

45:57He said all of our products. But even if they ignore the Mac, the phone, what an undertaking that will be. Think about every iPhone being net zero carbon impact in only six years or seven. That's not very long from now. It's at 2030, Marco. That's in like 20 years. Yeah, that's how it is. all right they also said no long they will no longer be using leather in any new apple products uh which includes the hermese hermese however you pronounce it stuff yeah that um well let's be honest it's frank there is no correct pronunciation i am not going to approach that with a 30 foot pole but nevertheless uh that company that makes the fancy leather stuff apparently will be doing four new styles of band none of which are leather including the first ever knitted band uh this is where they also introduced their fine woven stuff which from what limited stuff I'd read about it.

46:49It sounds like it's very, um, suede ish. And that's about all I've heard in terms of like feedback on it from people who have seen it or used it or whatever. Um, we also found out, uh, that, but not, I guess it wasn't mentioned here, but at some point in the event video, I swear that they mentioned that you can charge your Apple watch from an iPhone 15, um, which is kind of cool. And then like Marco had pointed out earlier, there's the advanced cycle tracking, uh, which we, which we saw in the little like slide o blobs uh but they didn't actually call out i don't think the leather thing so a lot of people are going to snark at this and say you replace leather thing with like something that's made of plastic how is that better many people will tell you that leather is actually fine because we're killing the cows anywhere for meat and leather is a byproduct so leather actually doesn't have any kind of harmful impact the problem with all of these things is if you google for this and try to figure out like well well, what's the truth?

47:43What do people have to say? You will find lots of things from the leather industry and lots of things from people that don't want any animals ever to be harmed. And so both of those sides of the coin have their own agenda, and neither is particularly unbiased in terms of how they're going to present the evidence. Figuring out the environmental impact of anything is extremely difficult because very often there are blind spots where you'll say, well, that doesn't count. I'm not going to count that towards this, but I'm going to count it over here on this because it seems weird over here right you know what how much time energy carbon output chemical pollution whatever contributes to the full life cycle of a cow and you know setting aside the moral things about killing things uh and getting the leather and tanning the leather and chipping it and so on and so forth versus whatever they imagine to be the worst thing possible like these uh the fine woven things are made from plastic grocery bags or whatever they think and then you come up with a comparison it ends up looking bad i don't actually know is leather the world's most harmful thing or not i do know that like the the uh what apple is trying to do here is have less environmental impact are they succeeding i think the fine woven stuff is at least partially like 60 recycled textile or something like that so it's not that you know they're not replacing leather with something that is 100 non-biodegradable it'll be on earth for 10 000 years but they're also not replacing it with something that is as biodegradable leather as far as i know so i feel like the jury's still out on the environmental impact of this but it's a thing that they're doing uh and i think it is i mean the main argument i've seen on the side of getting rid of leather is that even if you concede which i don't think is actually true but even if you were conceived for the sake of argument if leather was uh you know it doesn't no cow has ever no not a single extra cow is killed to get leather because it's all byproduct of the meat industry which isn't actually true but if you even if you can see that that's true what you're doing is making it slightly more profitable to kill cows which will probably result in slightly more cows being killed so do with that what you will i mean i am not a vegetarian i eat meat i have leather case on my iphone right now i'm just trying to you know apple didn't lean on this too hard but i feel like there's been a lot of churn on this amongst people watching it because people are very angry that apple's trying to appear that they're doing a good thing and everyone is saying they're not actually doing a good thing in fact they're doing a bad thing they're doing a thing and i haven't seen the fine woven case yet uh and like i said i have leather case on my phone but i'm willing to give the fine woven one a try the main problem of course with all apple cases is they continue to cover the bottom of the phone so that's a separate issue oh i i had no idea that you were perturbed by that yeah they can use less material whatever the material is you can use less of it just omit the part on the bottom no i i'm actually i'm looking forward to seeing the fine woven stuff because uh for and for whatever reason you can't order it like the fine woven magnetic link band for the apple watch you you can order everything else with the apple watch but not that band or any watch with it so i don't know why i don't know when that's coming but i hope i can get it soon because it looks good and any kind of environmental judgment you're going to try to make about how good or bad leather is it's not good like it's you know the leather you know cows themselves are pretty horrific for the environment in the amounts that we raise and kill them.

51:02That's pretty awful. And if you care about the environment, one of the best things you can do is reduce the number of cows that we keep creating. And there's many ways to do that. Beef is the biggest one, but you can also stop buying leather. That helps a little bit. Also, the leather doesn't fall off the cow and instantly become a watch band. There's a lot of steps in between those things that also have their own impact. So anyway, think about that when calculating things, but it doesn't matter. this is the right move for apple to do no part of a consumer goods producing company is going to be great for the environment but they're trying to reduce their impact and the overall you know switch away from a cow-based product is probably going to make it easier to reduce their impact and and i don't think you can totally brush off the concerns of people who don't want to kill animals like not everyone feels that way but a lot of people do it that's a pretty substantial market that doesn't want to buy things from dead animals.

51:59So that's also... I think this is the time for them to do this. I'm glad they're doing this. And I look forward to the fine woven stuff. It looks pretty good from the looks and everyone says it feels pretty decent who was at the event. I look forward to getting my hands on one. Yep. All right. Apple Watch Ultra 2 still at$799. This was introduced by Daniela Duchamp, I guess. Basically, it's 64 gigs, 3 ,000 nits instead of 2 ,000, the brightest display apple has ever created has new watch face called modular modular ultra which uses the like lateral edges of the display to show stuff uh night mode activates automatically based on ambient light sensor same basic battery life the ultra 2 with alpine loop or trail loop are carbon neutral and no dark titanium and that's basically it that's the whole thing yeah it's kind of funny so first of all the ultra is a great product ultra 2 seems like it's also a great product so you know go ahead and buy one i think it's interesting with with the whole dark titanium rumor the apple watch seems to be the apple product that always has the most wrong rumors about its physical design like every year there are rumors about apple watch physical design changes and every year for the most part they don't happen like whoever is i don't know why we always buy into it whoever is leaking that crap about the apple watch every single year has a horrendous track record but anyway um yeah someday they're going to do a dark titanium one and they'll sell a bunch of them in the meantime they didn't oh well the ultra was a huge hit last year it's going to continue to be a huge hit this year and when sales start to sag they'll release the black one and then the sales will boost back up again so good good good product we are brought to you this week by collide if you work in security or it and your company has okta this message is for you Have you noticed that for the past few years, the majority of data breaches and hacks you read about have something in common?

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54:56Then we get on to the iPhone 15 with Kay Andrantz. It's getting the dynamic island. 1600 nits is, I guess, the standard, but it can kind of flex up to 2000 nits, which is twice the iPhone 14. uh it doesn't appear to be always on display and you think you think they would have said it in the keynote if it did yeah it does not have always on or 120 hertz the always on display question last week i was like well it might just be a software thing and a display driver thing because the display driver has to drive it at that thing apparently you need to have one of these new ltpo or is it low something some process by which they make the display that is also an essential part of the always-on display and apparently that manufacturing process has to happen in a special factory that can do those type of displays and it costs more money and so it probably can't do always-on display that's that is the the extra extra color that i that has been added to this uh since the keynote and they didn't say it did so i'm assuming it doesn't all right it's got 6.1 6.7 inches as we as before they did make brief mention of a contoured edge which will reemerge in the iPhone 15 Pro.

56:03And initial reports I've heard is that it's actually really nice to hold. They use color infused glass with quote unquote metallic ions to get a series of colors that also seems to be mixed response. I actually really like them. They are muted and they're very pastel, but I thought they were good. That's one way to put it. I think, you know how like all the different jokes about how to make a martini and like how little vermouth should be in a martini? Yeah, you should just wave the vermouth near the glass and that's sufficient. I feel like that's how Apple treats color in this year's iPhone 15.

56:35Like it's like some dye was waved nearby when this was being made. That's the whole thing. It's not dye. Like I feel like this desaturated nature may be part of the process, this whole color infused glass with metallic ions. I don't know this to be the case, but it could be that this is as saturated as they can get them with this process. the advantage of this process is that essentially the color is in the material not laid on it or laid under it but within the material and they could do the neat thing where they kind of like you know the the gigantic camera bump not as gigantic on the 15 but the camera bump is also infused with that same color right and because it's thicker the color is deeper there because there's more material i don't know i have to wait for someone to crack one of these things open and look at it edge on or whatever but i'm willing to mostly give them a pass on the colors this year on the 15 because at least they tried to make them look a little different and i mean i guess maybe the black one uh shows that they can do some kind of saturation but i think it looks pretty good i think the pink one looks good in this kind of powdery color very much so the you know like this is not a saturated year but there still is the full black one and the other ones uh look pretty cute uh well we can play more about colors when we get to the pro oh will we ever all right ceramic shield front glass it gets the 48 megapixel main camera do we know for a fact if this is the one from the 14 Pro, the sensor on this is from the 14 Pro?

57:53I don't think we know for a fact. Everyone just keeps assuming in the articles, they're like, I guess it's the one from the 14 Pro because we know that the 15 Pro doesn't have the same sensor as the 15. It's a new sensor in the 15 Pro. But my question is, so this one is smaller, but is it exactly the same as the one last year? I don't actually know. It seems like it has matching specs. I mean, I don't know. Yeah, it does seem, but the specs they give you are anyway. It will be interesting to see if that's actually the case because that actually has some consequences is when we talk about the the pro later about what apple's doing with their phones and keep also like you know the the the camera and its processor are so paired together and the iphone 15 does have the a16 from last year's pro so it would make sense to bring over the same camera sensor too it's probably the same although speaking of that so the next item the case is going to get to here is uh so this is if this really is the same camera the same sensor the k16 same everything they've found a way to get a little more oomph out of that because the new feature that they touted for this is that uh you can take a picture where it does the pixel binning where it takes every all four groups of four pixels and combines them into like one bigger pixel but it will also take the full 48 megapixel frame and combine them so previously what the 14 pro could do with the same SOC and same presumably same camera was you could take a 48 megapixel sensor where it used every single pixel individually or you could take a 12 megapixel uh photo where it it binned all the pixels into sets of four and that makes perfect sense and so you could bin or not bin this thing when you take a picture it bins and not bins and combines them to make a 24 megapixel picture so it's not just taking the bin pixels it's not just taking the unbinned pixels it's combining them to make a picture that is higher resolution because it uses that presumably uses the 48 megapixel picture to give like that fine detail but then it uses the color to sort of cancel out the noise from the individual tinier pixels so bottom line is you you get pictures with twice as many megapixels that presumably look better and have more detail than you could before and my question is if they could do this is this just a software thing or is there some kind of image signal processor thing that they couldn't have done last year i'm assuming it's just a software thing but if so they're doing more work per photo because they didn't do this before i do wonder if it's going to change sort of the readout speed of like how fast you can take pictures to do this but it's a it's one of the rare times i can remember seeing like when the non-pro camera ends up getting camera features that weren't on the pro camera that have the same hardware well it's only been in recent years that they've had this kind of off by one thing with the chips in the non-pro phones yeah yeah first of all to answer your question i think it's got to be software because this doesn't have like you know the the better stuff of the a17 do you think it's going to be slower then i don't know i i will we'll have to find out it might it might not be noticeably slower but we'll find out i mean the a17 as a processor is not massively faster than the a16 was so you know we'll get there but you know i think they can do it and and just have it be software differentiation so in any case uh they did also make mention as we had been talking about recently that they said quote using the middle 12 megapixels of the 48 megapixel sensor so i thought that for the for the 2x camera a little bit of a quick follow-up on that uh i've learned since last episode when we talked about this some more because people are super duper obsessed with the idea that if you use the 12 uh the center 12 megapixels for the 2x camera you don't need to do any upscaling if you're using the apple camera app and you use the 2x like the virtual lens the 2x lens which is really just the 1x lens but the middle portion it will try to use unbinned middle 12 megapixels from the sensor if it can but if there is not sufficient light it will bin them and you have no control over this and so when it bins them it's going to upscale uh and not only do you have no control over this but it changes as apple changes their algorithms and or whatever so it's not it's not a setting that you can control and you don't even know whether it's doing it so it's as always things are always more complicated than you think but they but they you know apple says something like this you're like oh i guess it must always use unbidden pixels as of the 14 pro that was not the case maybe it's true of the 15 we'll find out but uh yeah it's it's and you can't really tell after the fact too because it always gives you a 12 megapixel sensor whether that's 12 unbidden pixels that it used for that or it's well i can't do the math but like what four bin four megapixels of bin pixels i don't know something like that um then we brought up um miriam i believe uh hashemi and they were talking about the you know camera's so great this and that and the other thing but then the bomb that dropped that i thought was freaking cool is that apparently portrait mode is still a thing but you don't have to use it because it will use machine learning to just figure out is this the sort of thing where portrait mode would be applicable and it will capture the depth data like what was that feature in video that none of us ever used?

1:02:54Cinematic mode. It'll capture the depth data. Good summary. And then, I mean, I call it like I see it. Capture the depth data. And it will put that in like a sidecar on the HEIF or HEIC or whatever the file it is. And it will let you in the Photos app go back later and adjust what's in focus and adjust the focal depth of that image. this looks so cool if it actually works and they also added dogs and cats get portrait mode too which i think is already kind of sort of there but anyway they specifically called it out and you can so you can do this focus and depth control in post and that is so freaking cool and i am so freaking excited for this i am i genuinely i i think this is amazing i mean if you like fake blur sure i sure do i know if some people like it that's good i mean it's kind of interesting like kind of like when they added live uh photos it's on by default like just everybody gets it this will hopefully be less dangerous than that but i do wonder if it will let me either turn it off or i can get rid of the depth data if i don't want it because definitely i mean not that it's taking up too much room but a it's capturing depth data which means it's spraying everybody with the little depth sensor thing which i don't you know it's hurting your battery life and maybe making your photos take longer to to be captured wherever and be i don't need all that data i'm not going to use it so we'll see what uh ios 17 we'll see what kind of controls ios 17 provides for this feature you know why do you gotta be such a bummer i'm excited for this i'm saying everyone else can enjoy it i just want a little bit more control over whether uh people get sprayed with lidar every time i take a picture of them uh who cares what do you have lidar sensitivity you have wi-fi sensitivity too no i'm saying it's like it uses a little bit of battery life and it takes a little bit of extra storage per picture it's the same reason i don't have live pictures on because i don't need that extra data for every photo it adds up oh god i forgot this about you first of all you should have live pictures on second of all i would expect the battery impact of the little blink of lidar is probably far less than the massive image processing pipeline that's going on anytime you have the camera app open i don't know i mean it's kind of kind of like the speaker once you start interacting with the real world it takes a surprising amount of energy instead of just being in your little fake world of ones and zeros where you can just get a lower power chip and you can do the same math with less power but john just just bask in your wrongness quietly while i continue uh this gets the a16 biotic that was bionic we don't have time in this episode for john to be wrong oh yeah that was included introduced the iphone 14 pro then they talked about connectivity it gets your u2 chip which includes three times further connections and this i thought was freaking cool again no sarcasm you can do find my friends if both people have one of these second gen ultra wideband chips but you can do it between phones so if you're on like you know different sides of a store or maybe you're at like an amusement park and you got separated or chose to be separated for a minute, you can use this thing to do a AirTag style, no twist to the right, a little bit more, a little bit more.

1:05:47Okay, stop now, walk, walk, walk, 10 feet, nine feet, eight feet, et cetera. I genuinely am excited for this. I think this is going to be awesome. And I think it's a great idea. And then they reiterated voice isolation and audio calls. They also announced roadside assistance via satellite. So they said, hey, if you have a medical emergency in your middle of nowhere well we can help you out but what if you don't have a medical emergency you have a car emergency and i don't know maybe that's a very american thing but here we are so they said hey we'll do roadside assistance via satellite same basic idea you tap through a wizard then they send some text messages through freaking space and they said this is launching in the u.s with triple a which is our american automobile association there's something very similar in the uk i forget what it's called it might be double a i don't remember um but anyways and so I hope that's it.

1:06:31I don't remember. Yeah. Oh, no, it's not that one, actually. Now that I think about it, maybe not. But anyways, the point is, it is free for AAA members to receive service as part of your membership. But yeah, and then you can pay for it if you're not a AAA member. Satellite services remain free for two years. And then we started talking about wired capabilities. But before I get there, any thoughts on the wireless capabilities? It's all cool stuff. Yep. I dig it. when i saw the thing oh free for two years whatever i said how much time do i have left or my wife i guess i don't know it's my fault like how much is there like a timer that's going to tell me like when my satellite free satellite presumably they'll try to upsell me and say hey your free thing is going to run out i guess i'll find out in a year huh well and they haven't really announced yet like what what happens when that runs out do you just lose that ability or do you have to pay for it i they haven't said anything on that yet and it won't run out for anybody for at least one more year.

1:07:25Exactly. And then they have wired capabilities and they announced USB-C, baby. It's real. It's happening. What's the GIF? I forget what the American politician was, but it is happening. And I'm excited. It's funny because I was thinking about this and I Qi charge basically all the time. About the only time I plug in, there's two times that I think of that I typically plug in. Number one is at my desk when I'm bugging on device. And number two is when I am running really low on battery and need to top up. And we have one of the, I don't know if it isn't an iPad charger, which whatever the Apple USB-C charger is, that's not the big square, the one that's like a rectangular power brick or iPhone brick.

1:08:07Well, anyways, we have that with a USB-C to lightning cable down in the living room. And so if I ever need to top up quickly, that's the one that does the 10, 15, 20, whatever it is, watt charging. And that's really nice. But otherwise, like nightly, I Qi charge. When I'm traveling, I Qi charge. But that being said, the thought of never having to worry about whether or not I have a lightning cable nearby, I am in. I am all in. And I travel with probably too many USB-C cables because all of the laptops and iPads and whatnot that I have around me, I am so excited to not have to think about lightning anymore.

1:08:43Not that it's a burden. I'm not trying to say it's a burden. I'm just excited. And this makes me happy. So here we are. It is real USB-C in the iPhone. I'm so happy. So Apple kind of undersold this. Like they didn't, uh, this is definitely the type of thing where I don't know what people don't want to hear that if Steve Jobs is still around, but if Steve Jobs was still around, he would have announced this because it's one of those things that is going to have a lot of impact. It's probably the headlining feature for regular people about what's new about the iPhones this year, USB-C. Well, but they don't see it as a positive though.

1:09:11Yeah, I know. Well, that's why you get out the big guns and have somebody say let me explain to you why i know you're probably thinking oh no this is bad but let me explain to you why it's actually good but they didn't do that they basically just said the person who's doing the iphone 15 announcement this is just going to be another segment of the iphone 15 and then yeah they did save it to the end but whatever but they didn't have someone higher up in the org chart come out to say let me explain to you why we're courageous for removing the headphone jack or whatever like that type of thing it was just part of the presentation uh and they didn't really they tried to basically say here it is here's what it is and moved on real quick like i i don't haven't looked this up yet but like no color match cables that as far as we know yeah the room mill had a lot of bad rumors this year yeah i mean maybe someone will still be selling color match cables but apple is not including them in the box and if they are going to sell them they didn't even talk about it or emphasize it so whoa slow down slow down i my understanding is there are cables power cables in the box but not color matched ones correct i just want to make sure we're clear here yeah yeah so that's what i'm saying is that like it's not a thing that they emphasize and and the reason are we sure that they aren't color match and we just can't tell the difference i that's what i'm saying because no one has these boxes yet but if they didn't mention it you think they would have mentioned at least just noted it they also didn't show any color match cables in the video including the times where they were clearly plugging in a usbc cable yeah they just showed white cables right so i don't so we don't know definitively to your point but either way they did is not a thing that they emphasize and the reason people thought they were going to have it and emphasize that it's a it's a way to put lipstick on this pig to say you know if you're upset about this let's distract you with cool colors which is why i thought it was going to be such a big important part of this thing but it's not an important part of it's not part of it and so i seems like it's not part of it you know and and that that goes that goes to their approach their approach was let's not spend a long time essentially making excuses for ourselves right to say why are we doing this blah blah they just said here it is it's the same connector you know and love and all our other products and now it's on phones and we it's great anyway moving on so that's the approach they took well but i think it was right in the sense that you know they know this is going to be crap news for most people and most of the advantages of it most people won't care about the you know like the the faster data speeds and you know different well not everywhere the convenience of not having to have extra cables like trying to sell that is like a potential thing like like and they did sell it as now you can use the same cables across all of our products and except for the apple watch and and you know that that that is keyboard and the mouse yeah well we'll get there but yeah like that and the airpods max that that is the benefit to regular people though is like you know you can you can use the same cable but they don't but they don't see that as the benefit because they're they're gonna say i have a bunch of cables already and now i can't use these anymore so you telling me that i can use these other cables that are already in use for my other devices doesn't help me right they don't see that the future thing i'm like what did you see in the future you know it'll be more uniform we all see that but like it's it's a tough sell so they didn't really touch that they just said the same great port we have all these products now is on the phone isn't that great anyway moving on no i i think again first of all i think this is going to go over poorly with a lot of people it already has i already had people in my life asking me like they changed the port again like you know again oh oh that's right time was 11 years ago yeah it's like yeah it's like yesterday no i meant to bring this up this is completely relevant so after we recorded last um i was talking to Aaron just you know we were sitting around uh when the kids were in bed just chit chatting and and I'd mentioned that oh you know the new iPhone is going to have you know USB-C and you know we won't need lightning anymore and she looks over me wait what but we have like a thousand lightning cables I was like yeah but we also use USB-C for everything but we've got like a thousand lightning cables that's what I was saying that they don't see the like the future the clean future of just having one connector is of no interest to them all they see is the present with lightning cables everywhere.

1:12:59Right. And it's not that Erin is unintelligent or anything like that. It's just that her thought is, you know, it's wasteful to get rid of them, which to some degree she's right. And so anyway, it was just funny to me that after we had talked about it, it was literally like Thursday. I think we recorded on Wednesday. It was Thursday or something like that, that we had this conversation. I think people will probably get over it a little bit quicker than they did with the 30-pin to lightning, just because so many people do wireless stuff now and so many people already have USB-C. Nobody had a lightning cable when lightning was introduced.

1:13:23Like people have 30-pin stuff, but zero people had lightning cables. Well, a lot more people who are buying iPhones already have USB-C cables. They know what a USB-C cable is, and they already own some. And yet, it sucks that they also already own a million lightning cables or whatever. But I think it'll be better this time. And also the people like you, Casey, who do wireless charging most of the time. Like, there are many mitigating factors to make this transition less painful. The aggravating factor is there are so many more iPhones in the world, and therefore so many more iPhone users than they were 11 years ago.

1:13:55So that is not in Apple's favor, but I think they kind of like having all those customers. So what are you going to do? Real-time follow-up. If you go to the iPhone 15 Pro, which I know we're not talking about the Pro, but the Pro specs page, you scroll all the way down. What's in the box? iPhone with iOS 17, USB-C charge cable, one meter in documentation. And the picture they show the charge cable is clearly a standard white charge cable. Again, not definitive, but it sure seems like it's probably not color matched. Yeah, they would have mentioned it. they had to like when they did the imacs they totally mentioned the fact that everything on that thing is color matched right and they did not say it about these phones so i'm gonna say no and it's very possible that like you know the leaked picture of the color matched cables that those could have been future imac peripheral cables like you know it could be anything but anyway i will say before we leave usbc um a little psa to think about all of those iphone people who don't have usbc stuff yet suddenly need it what i a couple days ago i went on amazon and i bought a bunch of usbc cables and my i bought a few extras of my favorite chargers because it wouldn't surprise me if there's like a sales blitz and all these things and they might be hard to get for a little while because you think about the number of people who are about to need usbc gear is very high.

1:15:13They sell a lot of iPhones. Well, the good thing is everybody in the industry knew this was happening. So I hope all these companies have ramped up their production on USB-C cables. I would hope, but I would suggest if you are thinking about maybe getting more USB-C gear, I would suggest getting that now rather than seeing if you can get it in a couple of months. Yep, I agree. That reminds me that I had in my Amazon cart a couple of USB A to C cables for the purpose of CarPlay. And I have to send that through probably immediately. So yeah, so then they announced a new AirPods Pro second gen with USB-C case, which in the event, they made it sound like, oh, it's the exact same thing, but the case is now USB-C, except that apparently that's not true.

1:16:00We found out through a few places. We'll put a link in the show notes to Six Colors where they talked about this. apparently it's actually a slightly reworked set of airpods pro that have if memory serves let me read this excerpt that i think john has helpfully put in the airpods pro are actually slightly newer model apple cites a new ip54 rating for earbuds and case adding additional dust resistance as well as a new lossless audio with ultra low latency specifically for use with the apple vision pro a feature that does not appear to be coming to the existing second generation airpods pro that really bums me out given that i just like a month ago bought a set of second gen airpods pro but what are you gonna do and the fact is they'd also don't they haven't really renamed this product it's still called airpods pro second gen it's just airpods pro second gen with usb c case which i guess they've done before where they've had laptops with like i don't remember like bronze keyboard that's not really one of the the model specifiers but at various times they've uh they've added more words to the end of their product to further narrow it down to a specific sub model and those sub models have been different in weird ways so here it is airpods pro second gen with usbc case yeah it's kind of like it's like the 2.5 gen but i was kind of disappointed by this too because like when you know in in the past when uh the the original AirPods, the case was not Qi compatible.

1:17:23And then a little while into its lifetime, they updated the case to have wireless Qi charging, and they let you buy that case separately for something like $70. So you didn't have to replace your entire set of AirPods to get the cool new case charging method. You could just buy into it if you wanted to for less. I was kind of assuming they would do the same thing here, and it looks like they didn't. I mean, they might still do it eventually, but they're not they don't have it now like i don't even though the airpods themselves are updated i don't see any reason that they couldn't sell the case separately because the case is not part of this new lossless audio ultra low latency blah blah vision like the case isn't contributing to that so it seems like they could sell the case separately and maybe they will eventually but maybe not at launch we'll see i mean they also just might be figuring like you know the for for the vision pro this what's going to be a very low volume at first product that's going to quote start at$3 ,500, they might figure, who cares if people have to buy new AirPods to use it?

1:18:20That's a fair point. That's going to be a drop in the bucket relative to the cost of that product. They also updated the EarPods. If you're wondering what EarPods are, it's what used to come with the phones was a little set of wired headphones and those wired headphones used to have a headphone jack on them, but then the headphone jack went away. So those wired headphones had a lightning plug on the end of them and then that went away because they don't put those with phones. They weren't, but anyway, you can still get it and now they're gonna have one of those with usbc on it it's so weird to me in the house occasionally i find one of those wired pairs and it's like a set of headphones with lightning on the end oh yeah phone anyway now they're gonna have usbc ones if you want them see this is why i'm one of the many reasons why i'm so excited to be going to usbc is like i have so many weird little lightning things i you know there's like lightning dongles and a lot of times like for instance the wired headphone dongle i have two different ones that i carry in my travel bag one with usb-c for modern ipads and the other one with lightning for modern phones in case i need a headphone out which sometimes i do like this is going to be so nice to just have one of those things again looking at other usb features like usb-c features like there are so many weird little peripherals like those little card readers that apple sells for the camera connection kit so many things like that general little adapters little peripherals that before Or I would generally need two of in my library here or while traveling.

1:19:40And now it'll be able to be done with just one. That's really nice. Not to mention, you know, we'll get to the pro with, you know, being able to have more advanced stuff. But not to mention, it can probably supply more power because it has to as part of the USB spec. And so that will enable a lot more peripheral types to be more easily used or used at all. It's going to be really nice for so many reasons. I'm very, very happy to see this. And that's a perfect segue to them announcing that the AirPods Pro 2nd Gen and the Apple Watch apparently can be charged from the phone. I guess if you have a USB-C Apple Watch cable or a USB-C to USB-C, you can charge the new AirPods Pro V2.5 or an Apple Watch, which is kind of neat.

1:20:23Like we said, the case is not available separately, which is a bummer. Then this is where they started talking about the fine woven stuff, which I think we've already talked about. Then we finally get to the iPhone 15 Pro and Pro Max. Come to daddy. This is going to be titanium. This is going to be titanium, at least in part. And they said it's the most premium material we've ever used in an iPhone enclosure. John, my understanding is that you have some things you'd like to get off your chest. What's going on? So last episode, we were talking about the invitation to this event that showed titanium powder.

1:20:55and we started talking all about 3D printing titanium and the new things that that kind of process makes possible and the possibility that Apple might manufacture one or more of its products using 3D printing of titanium. If Apple is doing that, they didn't say anything about it, which does not seem like Apple. So I'm going to say they're not doing that. We got so much feedback between last episode and this one from people who know about 3D printing metals and titanium in particular, about the pros and cons of this technique and the various different kinds of titanium 3D printing that exists and which one Apple may or may not use.

1:21:31But given the fact that Apple did not mention anything about 3D printing metal, which seems to indicate that they're not doing it, I have chosen a winner from all the feedback that we have. And that winner is Dave. Here's what Dave, this is a little bit long, but I think here's what Dave had to say about 3D printing. I think it is the winner because it is the best explanation of why Apple in particular did not decide to build their iPhones or Apple Watch Ultras or whatever by 3D printing titanium, at least not yet. So here's what Dave says. John was speculating that the marketing graphics for the Apple event indicated they may be using 3D metal printing for the titanium pro phones.

1:22:07He's not wrong that machining titanium sucks, but I have a good bit of knowledge about the current state of metal additive manufacturing, AM. That's what all the people in the know call this. It's additive manufacturing as opposed to subtractive where you start with a big block of metal and you subtract stuff additive as you add stuff anyway that's that's what it's called am um and dave continues i find the idea of apple being able to implement this technology to be highly improbable this is mainly because am is exceptionally good at making low volume highly intricate parts and exceptionally bad at any other context the am process is slow and inherently energy inefficient john's example of the zinger hypercar is a perfect example of where metal am is ideally suited very low volume zinger is only making 80 of these hypercars, and where weight slash complexity have a large trade, a large trade off advantages.

1:22:53Apple's iPhone chassis could not be further from this reality. It's very simple and structural design, but even the pro phones will require hundreds of millions of units. The closest thing that I am aware of in metal AM that is considered large production is the GE fuel injector nozzle. Here's a news article we'll put in the show notes, noting the GE took three years to go from 30 ,000 units to 100 ,000 units. GE bought the leading metal additive manufacturing machine company because they could not buy enough machines to accomplish a task otherwise. They have a whole factory full of metal AM printers printing day and night, and they make 70K parts in three years of just of this one part.

1:23:27Apple needs several orders of magnitude more AM machines, which simply don't exist just to keep up with production. Dave finishes, Happy to have Apple prove me wrong. Having met some of the material scientists, I would not be shocked if they proved me wrong, but I personally don't see from here how metal AM will ever be used in large volume production. Near as I can tell, physics and economics don't make sense. Production rate is just one of many challenges that I would see for Apple here. Dimensional tolerances, surface finish, defect mitigation, especially for anodizing and dying. Then he finishes, feel free to trash this feedback once I've proven wildly wrong on Tuesday.

1:24:00Well, Dave, you were not wrong. You were 100 % right, and you win the feedback lottery. Not lottery, the feedback contest. So all this, as Dave says, this is the current state. And Apple, if anyone is going to do something like this, it's Apple. The same was true of CNC, you know, the computer controlled milling machine manufacturing, until Apple dumped literally billions of dollars into it. And all of a sudden you can make things out of solid blocks of aluminum at mass scale. Apple did that. And the question was, is Apple going to do that for 3D printing metal? And the answer is not this year.

1:24:33And so for people in the know in the industry, it's really cool, has lots of advantage. You can do really cool stuff with it. but apparently what you cannot do in 2023 is make hundreds of millions of iPhones with it. Or probably not even the whatever millions of watches, right? So watch this space to see if Apple makes a move in this direction. But today, it is not a thing that makes sense. These are the lightest Pro models ever. 187 grams for the 15 Pro, which is 4 grams lighter than the rumor. 19 grams lighter than the 14 Pro. Pro Max is exactly as rumor, 221 grams, which is 19 grams. Again, lighter than the 14 Pro Max.

1:25:13Interesting that they're exactly the same difference. So the Pro and the Pro Max both got 19 grams lighter, which is a coincidence. It seems really weird. It does, but here we are. And then Jason wrote that as someone who uses an iPhone 14 Pro every day, I instantly noticed how different the iPhone 15 Pro feels in my hand. It's a combination of factors. First, the phone is noticeably lighter. This is not a minor quirky quote. I suppose if you ate it, you'd grudgingly admit it's a few grams lighter quote sort of thing. It's very clearly noticeable. Thanks to the combined titanium and aluminum design, it doesn't feel flimsy, mind you.

1:25:44It's very solid but quite lighter. And we also, I don't know if you guys had a chance to see this, but Dr. Drang put up a really great post about the physics behind why it may seem a bit lighter. And it's all about, like, moments and things I've long since forgotten about physics from when I was in engineering school. That's just saying having the weight of the edge. Like, if the part that got lighter is on the edge, the part on the edge is going to contribute the most to the feeling of inertia as you rotate the thing in your hand. so that could uh account for the fact although he did start off and saying it could be that just 19 grams even though it doesn't seem a lot people's hands are actually pretty sensitive and you can notice 19 grams and i think that is actually the most straightforward explanation but yeah there's also a moment of inertia and having weighted the perimeter and so on and so forth but yeah they feel lighter so we'll see when we get to the marco test because we know he's despite all the working out he does he cannot lift the current generation of phones so no it just it's stuck on my desk all the time so i put it in my pocket my pants fall down like it just it's too heavy they should have made the uh the perimeter of the phone out of tungsten yeah that'd be awesome even heavier all right so it has the thinnest borders ever and they reduce the dimensions the exterior dimensions without affecting the screen size which is pretty cool oh yeah one thing one correction from last week we were i was puzzling over like why is it that the uh the pro phone got thinner than the non-pro one uh the problem was i was reading my own notes wrong i have the absolute value of the differences between the the pro and non-pro it turns out that the pro phone is actually a little bit thicker not a little bit thinner than the non-pro phone so all is right with the world the pro phone is smaller in width and height but a little tiny bit thicker that's not counting the gargantuan uh camera bump indeed the materials this was isabel yang uh it's grade five titanium which apparently is a known thing i don't know anything about this stuff but it's it's a thing uh it's titanium on the outside bonded to aluminum on the inside which is really cool yeah that can we stop on that for a second yeah i'd like to so i i did some research earlier trying to figure out for for the previous pro phones that use stainless steel bands do they use stainless steel inside somewhere too and i couldn't i looked like old teardowns and everything and i couldn't find any evidence of that no they don't i think they had aluminum frame well no actually here's the thing so casey's about to talk about this but i will preempt him no that's fine the big thing about the 15 pro that they touted i think they talked about in the 15 is that it uses the iphone 14 design right so the not the 14 pro but the 14 so we'll put a link in the show notes to like the structural repairability to kind of design and and i fix it tear down of the 14 with the 14 they changed it so you can remove both the front and the back of the phone so it's like a there's like a middle structural element that everything hangs off of and the front components hang off the front of it and the back components hang off the back so depending if you want to get at the front stuff like the screen or the back stuff like the battery you choose which side of the phone to open previously that wasn't the case previously apple has said well you open this phone from the back or you open it from the front in most recent years you've only been able to do one or the other and whichever one they chose it sucks for the components that are on the other side you know if they chose to open the front you got to dig through the whole phone to get to the batteries in the back or whatever so that design in the 14 with like a mid frame that's what they did for all of the 15s so the 15s are all now more repairable because they use that middle frame thing so if you're asking about the stainless steel one did it use that design it didn't even have a mid frame it was it was still the one where you have to i think open it up from the front i forget which whether it's the front or the back so they this is interesting because apple essentially pioneered a new way of building phones and they pioneered it with the 14 not the 14 pro historically with the pro phones apple has been less interested in repairability because basically they may only make those phones for one year and because they're more expensive and because they're fancier and because they're on the cutting edge, it kind of makes sense.

1:29:25But this year, not so. This year, the 15 Pro, and I think also the 15, get the mid-frame design so they can open up the front and the back, which makes repairs easier, take less time, presumably cheaper, less risky. But it does require them to have that mid-frame that is bonded to the outer frame. And on the Pro, it is a titanium, you know, outer frame band with aluminum bonded to it. Dr. Drang actually talks about that in his article. That whole big thing they said of how it's bonded together, they make them hot and they squish them against each other hey that's bonding it's welding it's basically welding but they don't want to say welding no and that's good too like you know you wouldn't want titanium all the way through because not only it would be would it be needlessly expensive but aluminum is lighter than titanium like titanium is a great material it's very light but aluminum is lighter as you can see with the watches it was lighter again aluminum is lighter for the same volume it's not lighter for the same strength and so if aluminum can give you the strength you need uh without being you know if you don't need the extra strength of titanium then you can go with aluminum yeah so in this case like the the more the more about a phone's metal content that they can make out of aluminum the better in terms of overall weight of it in in most cases so that's great uh i'm you know i'm really happy to see that their move to titanium here first of all i think you know colors aside which we'll get to in a minute colors aside i I think it looks fantastic in all the pictures and hands-on stuff I've seen so far.

1:30:51It seems to look fantastic. I love the fact that they took everything about the titanium watch that they don't make anymore. The nice brushed finish and everything. Not that I'm grumpy. Now, you know, I won't have it on my watch anymore, but at least I'll have it on my phone. That'll be nice until I scratch the crap out of it. But, you know, it'll probably scratch the phone less than the watch. So that'll be great. And I like that they've actually seemingly put a decent amount of effort into weight reduction here. Because for the last couple of years, a lot of us have been saying, myself included, like, look, I love the mid-sized Pro phone, but man, is it heavy.

1:31:25And it seems like they also finally thought that and have put in some substantial work into making it noticeably lighter. And so I'm very much looking forward to this phone. and you know i was i was really i was tempted and i'll get to this later with you know what what i chose to buy but like before the event i i was kind of thinking i might get the non-pro phone this year because the non-pro ones are so light and they feel so good in the hand and they're still lighter in the 15 is still lighter than the 15 pro yes but the difference is substantial the difference is like cut in half or something it's a substantial reduction in the difference between the non-pro and the pro in terms of weight um so anyway i'm very happy to see all this and it looks really good um and uh i can't wait to get my hands on one so let's talk about the colors apparently they're pvd coated which i guess is not the same as what they did with the tie book um no it is not that was painted the pvd coating they did on the the watches right the watch and the watch band yeah any watch that is black that is not aluminum so you know the the steel the the um and the titanium i guess those two so those two have always as far as i know have always the steel is always in pvd to make black steel um i believe the gold steel is also pvd um and yeah and the titanium pvd is a very durable coating it's it it generally it depends on kind of how it's done and what you're bonding to it but like like the black steel watch stuff having having the the carbon dlc coating on there which dlc and pvd i think are similar forgive me people who know these are very durable coatings much more durable than paint um and and usually even more durable than anodization i think so there are four colors there's light gray not so light gray dark gray and blue gray don't forget yeah there's natural gray which looks pretty light and there's light gray which also looks pretty light oh my god the officially officially the colors are black white blue and natural like it's not that they're bad it like as as colors i wouldn't say that these are bad colors but there's basically three flavors of gray and blue it's just like cars it is can we not have a little bit of flavor also by the way the the blue by all accounts is is basically the same as the macbook air blue so it's it's almost black barely blue yeah it's like a very dark blue that will look black in most lighting like that so this is uh this is quite a selection i'm really glad they went to titanium for the frame that's good the titanium frame is going to look awesome most of the time i bet the like the back glass and it's a good thing most people use cases i was even thinking too like you know my own phones i almost never see the back because i'm not one of those monsters who puts a phone screen down on a surface so you know because i don't want it to scratch hopefully this will be better how's that working out for you yeah right so like you know my phone is always face up it's either it's either like in my pocket or it's face up on something or it's facing me in the car in my pocket with the sand or it's face up right right right so like i really should complain less about the colors of the back because i never see the back of my phone i always but i see the sides all the time i mean but it's still so here's the thing here's the thing you are increasingly seeing the color of the back of the phone because that stupid camera just keeps taking up more and more areas i know a lot of it is taken up with the lenses which are basically black but you do see the color of your phone a large square of it poking through even when you're wearing a case which i mean we'll get to what we bought in a little bit but like that one of the things that argues for potentially getting a neutral color not to clash with your you know colorful cases if you if you plan on getting colorful cases yeah as usual is disappointing that apple doesn't think pro means bright colors they should uh be dissuaded of that notion they should try making a pro phone in colors i think people would like it but that that year is not this year well they they have they they grace us with like one pro color per year if you can call it a color it's always like yes it's always it's always basically like the like the the very muted dark grayish version of that color and in this case that color is very dark blue that is basically black and pretty grayish so you have light gray medium gray dark gray and bluish gray uh i it's it's a tough decision this year really which which of the many grays do you go for and the black isn't even as black as the 15 right no and and even like if you look at the comparator the white also looks less white than the 15 than the 14 pro like the 14 pro is actually fair i have it here it's actually fairly it's i mean i would call it silver and they to be fair they do call it silver um it you know white and silver are different it depends on the light angle how different they look um but the 14 pro silver really is fairly neutral close to white i think as close to white as they've ever made a pro phone um and yeah the The 15 Pro looks like it's much closer to dishwater.

1:36:35So, oh, God, what a selection. I'm glad the bands look nice. Yeah, I mean, I'm a little bummed, but here we are. This is the same as it ever was. It's a pro phone year with boring colors. All right, then we did get the action button. This is real. They had a little bit of a courage moment when they said they are reinventing the experience. All right, pump the brakes there, guys, but that's okay. It's a button, guys. Let's chill out. Yeah, it's chill out a little bit. but uh you press and hold to confirm intent uh i was talking to a local friend who i won't call out their name but they were very grumpy about the fact that you have to press and hold and can't just like double tap or whatever um but i saw a couple of videos of this i don't remember where i saw it to be honest with you so i can't link it in the show notes but it looked like it was pretty fast so i don't i don't know i think this will probably be okay i mean the good the good thing is it's a software thing so they could change that but it is an interesting choice because like oh we don't want you to accidentally hit it well what about every other gigantic button on the phone that we're constantly accidentally hitting taking screenshots and accidentally turning the volume up and down what about those buttons you don't have to hold them down but suddenly you add one tiny button and this one is such a special button that you can't make it do it stuff it puts a thing on the screen when you press it it says hold a little bit longer you can do it it's like just i i mean i understand why they did it because it's like well use this button for something you really don't want to accidentally do like you really don't want to accidentally take your phone off sound like i get that too but i also really don't want to accidentally turn my volume way up so the next time i hit play it blasts my eardrums out i also don't really want to accidentally take a screenshot like i understand the reasoning i'm not too grumpy about it because like whatever but it's a very interesting choice that they decided to do and it's kind of like one of those it's a historically informed choice because historically this has been the ring silent thing and by default as marco predicted it is the ring silent thing but maybe they can get over that history when we've gone through a few generations of this and most people have decided that they want to use it for camera or whatever i'm actually very concerned about how how often accidental input will happen um you know because i all the time i will accidentally hit the volume buttons on my phone when it's in my pocket so for instance if i'm like leaning up against something while working on something like a lot of times like because a lot of times i'm listening to a podcast while it's happening so i'll realize it's like blasting my ears out i hit the volume buttons in my pocket on purpose all the time i'm really good at it i'm really good at knowing where those volume buttons because i don't have the airpods that you can like swipe the volume up and down or whatever and so that's a feature for me uh and you know so i but but yeah accidentally but like i said there's those buttons volume buttons and the power buttons they're huge and they only take they're not you don't have to hold them down that one little tap will do it well regardless you know this is going this is changing from a switch that was very hard to hit accidentally and especially again most people use cases and with most cases that switch they would just cut out a little hole and it would basically be recessed then compared to the outer boundary of the case it's a great little lint collecting belly button yes whereas volume buttons were always you know repeated by the case so that they would they would you know butt out so in most people's lives using phone cases around their phones it's going to be now it's going to be way easier to accidentally hit this compared to the old switch because presumably most iphone 15 pro cases will have their own you know button in front of the action button now maybe that would be such it would be such an fu for the cases to have like the the you know second set of buttons translating for the volume and power but still leave a cut out for the action button you got to shove your fingernail in there to press it maybe that's a feature for some people you know like maybe making it harder to press is good there are iphone cases that do that with the volume and the power too by the way they have cutouts for them like that's a style of case so you know whatever but i'm assuming they will translate it out but yeah but anyway this this button doesn't just do ring or silent you can configure it yep that's true and that's extremely cool you can configure it to do all sorts of stuff uh you can start voice memo launch camera which sitting here now is probably what i'm going to choose you can activate a particular accessibility feature you can activate a particular focus mode i don't think you can choose like it's always the one focus mode like you always enable do not disturb you always enable work or what have you but still that's cool uh but more interesting than anything anything else i think is that you can activate oh and flashlight as well but more interesting than anything else is shortcut you can run a shortcut and that means you can do and not just run a shortcut i saw i saw i think underscore was saying it's not just that you can run like the nomenclature is like a workflow you go to the shortcuts app and you make a workflow that does a bunch of steps or whatever i think he was saying that if your app vends a shortcut like if overcast has a shortcut functionality to like start playing or do something or whatever that it can directly call that rather than running a workflow that invokes i don't know what the the technical difference between those two things are maybe it's just less overhead or there's less indirection but apparently it can directly run app shortcuts and not just run a workflow that you make in the shortcuts app well i think the event i haven't played with this yet of course but i think the advantage there is an app shortcut does not require running the shortcuts app in any context at all an app shortcut is basically like a fancy intent and and so you can like that button could basically trigger my app directly or you know any whatever apps it could it could it could kind of open that app in the background directly as opposed to having to run a shortcut like and people have seen like a lot of these you know home screen customization things people are doing are based on replacing icons of apps with shortcuts that just run the app and so the result is like you hit the icon you know you hit your fancy custom icon for instagram and for a split second you see like a shortcuts window and then it kicks over i think i think i got rid of that about a year ago where when you launch apps it doesn't like shortcuts still does run in the background but when you're just doing a lot an app launch it doesn't do the thing where you briefly see the shortcut oh yeah yeah they they tweaked it over time but like net like an app intent or app shortcut in in theory would not require shortcuts to do any of its action so that's that's why that would be a good thing and the way the way you customize this button by the way is one of these interfaces that if anybody else did it you'd be like what are you doing it's just a setting just let people just let it's a picker like the the human interface guidelines say give them a picker and what you can pick from is all the things we just read launch camera activate accessibility features shortcut focus mode blah blah what interfaces does this have something you've it is not a standard control let's say like we should And we'll put a link in the show notes to a movie.

1:43:09I think it's an Apple thing where you can see it happening. It is a full screen thing where it shows you a zoomed in, essentially video of the side of the phone, zoomed in so you can see that tiny action button, like filling your phone screen. And then you swipe from side to side and an overlay of functionality comes and overlays itself onto the action button. And the phone also like rotates, like this 3D model of the phone, like rotates and stuff. It's so over the top, just like, and it fills the entire screen. mean this is not like you go into settings and it's like one little row or a picker or something it is a full screen high fidelity 3d graphical experience it's just i mean i mean i guess the team had fun doing this but like and it is a fun little bit a bit of whimsy but i do have to wonder okay so how long does this ui stay like this and when does it just become a picker so i i think i think this is actually justifiable for two reasons number one this is a headlining feature of the phone they wanted to show it off in the event so i think they built this ui in part for the event and number two no one's gonna know what the action button is so if they if they have a setting somewhere that says what do you want the action button to do they're gonna be like what the heck's the action button this shows them i i do wonder though when people when people see this ui will they be able to read the fact that this is trying to show them a button on the side of their phone i do wonder how people who don't already know will interpret what's on because it's really zoomed in and people can see like i just thought it was a design or something like do you realize what it's trying especially since it colors the action button like red or whatever and it's not red on the side of your phone so i'm not sure how successful the ui is going it's it's a fun little bit of whimsy i don't think it's going to be a big problem it's just fascinating to see like it like you said marco if you're a headlining feature you get wide latitude to do fun stuff essentially and i think this ui is fun i just think it's not potentially something that will be here in 10 years and then we start talking about the a17 bionic oh no the a17 pro thank god they changed the name so so so my mind so my mind is is reeling when they say a17 pro first my mind is like wait a second have they all been called pro in the protons no no they haven't what the hell is going on and then i'm like okay as i as i tooted so i guess the a17 max is coming soon then the a17 ultra then apple will cancel the a17 extreme no here here's what i think this is so first of all i'm glad they get rid of the the suffix bionic because that was that was well past its time we had all just been ignoring it for years anyway no one would use those terms but here's the thing there's been some speculation in this area here's my my pet theory this is going to sound a little ridiculous but bear with me the they're not going to put a processor called a17 pro in next year's non-pro iphones now for my limited understanding of semiconductor manufacturing uh again i don't know much about this but this is a three nanometer chip next year's non-pro phone i don't think they would put in a five nanometer chip because i think from from my understanding of this you can't just like take a design and like scale it down in photoshop 75 and say all right this five nanometer design we're going to shrink it down and it'll work on three nanometer no my understanding is that like when you change the process of manufacturing that some of the things that some of the design work that you do has to be different as a result of just how how some things in that process work so i don't see them having like a version of the a17 that is built across two different process nodes i think the a17 will always be three nanometers all versions of it are all things that use this you know this base building block.

1:46:55So my theory is, you know, when you look at the A17 Pro that they were showing off and, you know, all the various parts of the chip, they don't claim to be binning it in any way. My theory is they are binning it and they're just banking all the binned chips. And that next year's non-pro iPhone, its chip will be called the A17 and it will be binned A17 pros that might have like a gpu core malfunctioning or a neural engine core and it malfunctioning and so maybe it'll have like five gpu cores and you know whatever whatever number of neural engine gpu cores and maybe it will have you know if you look at the silicon diagram that they always show off there's a decent amount of space on that die dedicated to features that the non-pro phones don't need there's the usb controller which we're going to get to in a minute that's that's a big block on that die please please let them use that one next year's phone yeah but but you know there there's the pro res encoder the non-pro phones don't need that they're like there's some certain parts of that display controller that that's optimized for the lpto display and like maybe the non-pro phones don't need that and by the way those diagrams they have those are not to scale right but they're at least in the ballpark and and so yeah but anyway but the the this is this is the theory for this a17 pro and is uh i i also agree with it and it is the most obvious thing is that they're going to like you said use a it's going to be an a17 without the as soon as they put something with pro like we said with a vision pro as soon as they put the pro on something that means there's going to be a non-pro and what would a non-pro be it's an a17 with not all the parts working which is interesting because if you look at the m chips that's not what they do in the m chips you can buy an m2 pro with and without all the parts working you can buy an m1 max with and without all the parts working like that's they didn't take that approach with the m series they sell the same chip and the suffix basically tells you how much stuff you get you get more stuff on a max you get more stuff on a pro it's just a question of how much of that stuff works and so there's no naming differentiation on uh on the the ones with stuff working but on the iphone they're going to take a different approach it seems and you're going to get an a17 next year uh that is going to have some of the stuff not working and which stuff if i had to predict gpu core is an easy one they love doing that one yeah and apparently this gpu is new and fancy or whatever so that's definitely a part they could have problems but any other functional parts of chips like cpu cores efficiency cores power cores or any of the supporting stuff usb prores or whatever i really hope they're not binning based on that they could it's a thing they could do but they haven't done it so far everything they've ever been so far has only been gpu cores and cpu cores right have they ever been on anything else that's right yeah and and And there aren't really enough CPU cores in the iPhone chips to really bin based on that.

1:49:45Like, the efficiency cores are pretty tiny, and the performance cores, there's only two of them. So I don't think they're going to cut those. I think it's going to be GPU cores probably only, and maybe they'll just disable some of those or not use some of those other controllers. But, you know, and I think the reason this makes sense is 3 nanometer technology to make this, capacity to make this, is just coming online. Apple has reportedly bought all of TSMC's 3-nm capacity for probably at least a year. And so what they must be having to do to make this work. So the iPhone is a massive product.

1:50:20They need super high yields. They can take this whole year banking all those dud chips for next year's more mass market model phone. But this year, the mass market phone is using older technology because that saves the yield there. the mac m3 chips are rumored to use three nanometer as well but the volumes that macs do compared to iphones it's probably a drop in the bucket so that's probably not like a massive thing but like the two different iphone families those are massive each so i think this is going to allow them to save three nanometer capacity while they don't have so much of it this first year and then next year they will be able to use all of it plus if i don't i mean i don't think chips go bad so if they have some way to like save all the ones this year that have a bad gpu core and use them for next year's phones that could be a way to really maximize this weird situation with this you know this brand new cutting edge fab with these low yields yeah just don't start them in the radars lost arca warehouse you really want to keep track of what you did for both did we make a bunch of a17s with a missing gpu core last year didn't anyone know where those are are they in the back room they got to be here somewhere can you check they're at craig's house right they're really small so it's easy to misplace them all right so we haven't really made it past the name so what is a17 pro it's a breakthrough new cp gpu in the c in the chip there's the industry's first three nanometer which i think we kind of glanced off a minute ago 10 faster performance cores the efficiency cores are faster that's all we know the 16 core neural engine is up to two times faster and then marco i believe you made passing reference to this usb controller for usb 3 and 10 gigabits per second which is not in the a16 thus the iphone 15 gets usb 2.0 speeds wow yeah i mean this would be easy to predict based on so here's the thing when they when they planned on making the a16 they did not put usb 3 controller in it right and they could add another chip to the logic board and you know but they didn't do that so the a16 is what it is they did not add an additional extra chip to have and so it just has usb 2.0 because that's what the the phones that with the a16 had in them uh and as for the a17 pro it's got usb 3 it does not have thunderbolt it is not 40 gigabits per second it is 10 which is great that is way better than 480 megabits which is the other step down uh the disappointing thing in addition to the lack of color match cables although as we noted last show would you even notice on the pro phones is that your uh your iphone 15 pro or pro max does not come with a usb 3 cable which would not have to be super expensive or really thick like a thunderbolt cable oh it's fine it's fine it doesn't come with the usb and it's way thicker than a usb 2 cable usb 3 cables are not that expensive and i feel like this is another decontenting thing where it's not about e-waste it's not about saving you know usb 3 cables are it's not a thunderbolt cable right and but they didn't do it so you're right it will be fine but it does annoy me that they charge so much money for these phones and find a way to save every little penny and it's like come on a usb3 cable is that breaking the bank it's more it's there's more to it it's thicker it's heavier there's more environmental cost is it thicker is it thicker really yes it is three cable it's like a two and a half feet long i honestly like just buy a third party usb3 cable and a usb2 cable that are two and a half feet long and tell me you can tell which is which without plugging them into something and testing.

1:53:54No, I really think you can. We need to move on, but very briefly, the charging cable that Apple provides, like the USB-C, like iPad charging cable, Oh, it's glorious. It's astonishingly thin, and that's, I think, in part, this is what Marco was saying, in part because it doesn't have to do much. It has to carry power and a little bit of data, whereas an average USB-C cable is, it's not thick, but it is noticeably thicker than the iPad charging cable is. So I think you're both right. I think it would have been much better if there was a USB 3 cable in the box for a professional phone, but I'm not completely disgruntled that it's not there.

1:54:33If I had to pick, I would pick color matching over the USB 3 cable for sure. Honestly, I would probably do that too. But we get neither, so there you go. The GPU has six cores and it's 20 % faster. they were very excited about this gpu yeah this is this is the rumored like gpu core overhaul which supposedly was actually planned for the m2 but they they couldn't do it in time for the m2 so they just used the previous cores they had so yes they are very excited about these new gpu cores which are which you know a little bit later than planned but apparently are very good i mean they they did that thing where they tout the gaming performance it's like yeah yeah i'm excited to see these gpu cores in the m3 right because you know yeah let's see let's see when you got some more of them and get a little more grunt yep so their six cores 20 faster and they have ray tracing which they're very very excited about and uh some sort of thing that's doing that's working in concert with the neural engine to get metal fx upscaling which they were also very excited metal fx upscaling is not new but they're just uh bragging about how this does it even better and this is part of it this is part of a suite of technologies just like the ray tracing thing and the metal fx upscaling these are two things that have been uh going through the gaming industry over the past several years to make games better so the ray tracing is not full ray tracing it is just oh some things in your game might be ray traced since we have some hardware that can make that faster we know you can't retrace your whole game because it would slow to a crawl but just ray trace certain things to make it look better and then the upscaling is like oh we know you don't have a two thousand dollar video card but you still want your game to run at 4k what if we intelligently upscale it so basically your game renders at a lower resolution rather than just you know sort of upscaling it the way like a graphics pro i can't say the way graphics program upscales because now graphics programs do a upscaling too but anyway instead of just upscaling the way an old graphics program would do by just interpolating the pixels to be larger it uses information about the previous frame the next frame uh and what is actually in the frame to sort of intelligently upscale so you can essentially run your game at quote 4k and it looks better than it would if it was upscaled to 4k but not as good if it was actually 4k and the game was rendering 4k and this is very popular because it massively increases your frame rate and it's one of those things where it's like can i really tell the difference between real 4k and 1080 intelligently upscaled to 4k and if you can't tell take the extra frame rate and that's what a lot of people are doing so these features are very popular how popular metal effects upscaling will be on a phone i guess maybe you don't have as much gpu grunt so you might want to use it and maybe no one can tell but uh but yeah apple is keeping up with the joneses in terms of technologies underpinning their game platform So we got our game video which I got a little power nap in which is great.

1:57:10not mentioned in the event video there's a thread radio in the 15 Pro which is pretty cool and then we get to the camera system and they have decided and I am I'm an okay amateur photographer but I think I am beyond my depth but they have announced that there are effectively seven camera lenses in the 15 Pro and obviously that's not a literal statement but that's that's what they're declaring I would say I mean you keep cropping the sensor as many different ways Do those all count as separate cameras? Well, apparently, according to Apple, they do. Now, I'm not here to smear it. I'm actually very enthusiastic about this.

1:57:46And I think Mike had said it on upgrade, and I thought he made a very good point, that we all assumed that the 48-megapixel main sensor was going to revolutionize iPhone photography. And I don't know if that's really been the case, but there's some definite changes here that might be cashing the check that we wrote last year with this 48-megapixel sensor. So leaving aside the Pro Max for a minute, I guess I'll turn to Marco. But if you'd prefer, John, you can take it. But tell me about this sensor and these focal lengths and what's going on here, please. All right. So the sensor is larger, not a ton larger.

1:58:23I think it's like 20 percent larger or something. So that's good. That, you know, that helps. That means, you know, more light capture, better photos, less noise. That's that's wonderful. Same megapixel. So all the pixels are a little bigger. they're they're pulling a few tricks here we'll get to the 24 megapixel thing in a second because that's more complicated but the gist of the of the the different lenses is you know last year they offered like a 1x and a 2x preset that both used the 1x camera as discussed earlier that the the 2x was kind of just a like a center crop of the sensor and it would process a little bit differently but that was the gist of it um as far as i can tell the three different focal lengths 24 28 and 35 millimeter equivalents uh for the 1x sensor that you can pick are basically doing that same thing the 24 seems to be the that's the native uh frame of it and then you can just kind of crop in uh by default on those two lanes and those are you know from a photography point of you those are like classic photography prime lens lengths especially like 35 it's like a classic length that a lot of people would shoot all things in like a lot of cameras like a lot of fixed lens fancy cameras like some of the leica series the sony like little handheld ones a lot of those are fixed at 35 millimeters um the fuji x100 series like these are very popular uh focal lens for for photographers so that's why they're they're they're saying this and kind of building this into the ui a little bit but uh as far as i can tell that's just those are just crop modes on the main sensor which is not necessarily a bad thing like i this past year with the 14 pro i have used the 2x crop mode a lot actually way more than i thought i would um and it's been fine it's been way better than any real 2x camera they ever shipped because they they have such a big sensor in this one um so it's it's been okay so i'm guessing these modes are going to be similarly decent.

2:00:18That being said, the way they are processing things now seems to be substantially different. So they're doing this kind of super resolution stuff. They mentioned a few times that the Photonic Engine, which is their processing pipeline, now seems to be processing the whole pipeline in 48 megapixel mode or something like that. They made a few statements that were in that ballpark so it seems like they are they're doing a substantial processing and software upgrade in that pipeline to to save the downscaling to the final resolution to later stages in the pipeline that's what it seems like uh john do you know any more about that i mean the 24 megapixel thing is the same thing we discussed for the 15 this is the same feature came to the 15 which is that they are rather than giving you binned pixels and giving you a 12 megapixel image they're binning but they're also not binning and like you said the part of the pipeline is they combine the binned and the non-binned to come up with a picture that is in between because binned is 12 megapixels non-binned is 48 so how do they get a 24 out of that they take the detail from the 48 and the color and noise reduction from the 12 and they end up with a 24 and they're not going to tell you all the details of how they do it but that's essentially the gist of it is that they're able to get a higher resolution final image because they they take contributions from more of the pixels and by the way the 48 megapixel is before if you have a 14 pro or whatever you could take the 48 megapixel pictures and they'd be raw pictures so they're huge they're way bigger than the compressed ones and they're actually take a little bit longer to capture because you're writing more data because the readout is slower i'm not sure what the lag is but it is slower to take 48 megapixel raws like one after the other than it is to take jpegs so presumably on the 15 pro all that that whole pipeline the whole imaging pipeline is faster and also you can capture 48 megapixel heath images 48 megapixel compressed image they don't have to be raw so you can shoot in 48 megapixel all the time and not fill your phone with raw images so you can get 48 megapixel heaths and then by default you're getting 24 megapixel images which are a combination of the binned pixels and the non-binned pixels from the 48 megapixel sensor and then all the other focal length yes i believe they're all our crops and that's basically just a ui enhancement but it's a welcome one because you can pick your default if you want to default to 28 millimeters your 1x camera like by default will be 28 millimeters and you can change it to 24 or 35 or whatever by you know using the ui and the camera but you can pick what your default is so your default doesn't have to be the plain 1x which is presumably 24 millimeters yep so they've said larger sensors as marco mentioned mentioned uh there's a new nanoscale coding to reduce lens flare which i'm excited about.

2:03:01Better low-light performance. Granted, I have a several, at this point, year-old big camera. It's an Olympus Micro Four Thirds. Not the world's best low-light camera to begin with, but for the last few years, the iPhone has been so much better indoors than my Olympus, and I expect it to only be better slash worse, depending on your perspective now. The ProPhone gets a 3X telephoto camera, which is a 77mm focal length. The Pro Max, however, doesn't have a periscope, mind you, but it has a 5X or 120 millimeter focal length, 12 megapixel f2.8 camera lens or camera system with 100 % focus pixels. And the optical image stabilization moves in three dimensions with up to 10 ,000 micro adjustments per second.

2:03:46And it does all this not by periscope, mind you, but a tetra prism design. And they showed a little image in the event where basically it ping pongs the image through this prism. So what I I think they said it made four stops or something like that prior to hitting the sensor. And that gives them a 5x optical zoom. Yeah. And to be clear, when the rumors were all about 6x or when they say 6x total, they're talking about the difference between 0.5x and 5x. That is a range of 6x. I didn't even think about that. And one thing that I got totally wrong in my perception of what this was going to be based on all the rumor stuff, I was thinking it would be a zoom lens, meaning that it would be variable focal length, that it would cover the range from 3x to 6x.

2:04:38But in fact, it is a 5x prime, which is better. Optically speaking, the metrics are about as good seeming, a little bit better sensor size, but generally about as good seeming as the 3x camera has been on the Pro, which is not great but it's there and i think that's what this is going to be like optically speaking and you know with when talking about things like noise performance and everything low light performance this is going to be significantly downgraded from the 1x lens because the 1x lens has a much larger sensor and and you know simpler optics and stuff like that so like the 1x is probably going to be way better optically just in the same way that it's been better than better than the 3x camera but 5x is a pretty good reach like you know it's 120 millimeter equivalent that's pretty good that's not going to get you you know that's not that's not like one of those super telephotos like we were talking about a few months back it's nowhere near that kind of length but it is substantially more zoomed in than the 3x was you know about twice the the distance you know as the 3x so that's pretty good uh one thing that that's going to be a little potentially weird is that there's now a huge gap between the 1x coverage and 5x like before you know you had the 3x to fill that you had the 2x crop mode i guess you're gonna have to use a lot of digital zoom on the 1x sensor if you want say a 4x perspective or a three and a half x perspective that's going to be fairly compromised but in exchange you get 5x worth of maximum reach which you know the way i use the 3x camera on my 14 pro is kind of utilitarian um you know there's not every picture i take is a piece of art a lot of the pictures i take on my phone are serving some kind of function you know help me see this thing help me remember this thing help me communicate this thing to someone else.

2:06:40And those are all very different from needing super high optics and framing everything perfectly with cinematic perspectives and everything. And I think that's a lot of what people use their cell phone cameras for is that kind of functional photography, not nice photography. And from that point of view, the 3X and the 5X cameras are perfectly fine optically. Like, again, you're not going to win any awards, your picture's going to look like crap if you zoom in but you you got the reeks you got the shot so you can communicate this thing to somebody or or you know capture this thing or save this thing to remember it later and so from that point of view the 5x perspective is going to be extremely nice and welcome to pro max users this is not enough to make me want the pro max because it's still too big for my hands and my pockets and that'll really pull my pants down uh don't forget very heavy yeah yeah but yes i couldn't lift it up um but uh but for people who are already pro max users i think this is going to be an awesome upgrade uh and it's going to allow them to to get things that would have been harder or worse before uh so you know good good for them and and i really am envious of the three-dimensional image stabilizer that is really cool i wish my 1x lens had that because that would enable even better performance out of an already great camera um maybe down the road maybe we'll get something like that but anyway pretty cool a lot of people are asking how is this not a periscope lens it looks like the light goes in then turns and goes down and then turns again it seems like a periscope um so the rumors were that it would be a periscope style lens where light goes in hits a prism starts traveling the length of your phone or the width of your phone so now the light is traveling sideways inside your phone instead of you know directly into it uh goes through a series of lens elements hits another prism and then goes down into the sensor and that's kind of what this does but the difference is in a true periscope lens that or the periscope lens that people are thinking of uh the there are lens elements stacked inside your camera like lengthwise so like if you look at the back of your camera now you see a bunch of circles those are lens elements right the orientation those are in rotate them 90 degrees so you're looking at them edgewise there would be element lens elements edgewise inside your camera stacked like that that the light would pass through not only that but the idea was that hey one or more of those lens elements would move like mechanically move like when you twist on an actual real big camera lens and it moves the lens elements to be different distances from each other that changes the focal length there are existing cameras that do that in fact i'll put a link in the show notes too i think with the first one the first big name one that did this which was the sony xperia 1 1 4 1 iv anyway one roman numeral 4 i don't think maybe it wasn't the first but it was one of the one of the first ones that popularized this and it came out in september of 2022 so almost a year ago um and it has a bunch of lens elements that are stacked edgewise inside the thing it actually has a sensor that is also edgewise like it doesn't have another prism so the sensor lays down so it's a little bit different than the rumors of this thing but it as far as i've been able to tell has an actual moving lens element now the weird thing about the sony is okay so lens element moves to change the focal length but it moves and it has two positions all the way to one side and all the way to the other so it only has two focal lengths it's not like how you can smoothly zoom between you know 20 millimeters and 70 no it only like basically digitally moves you can go i forget what the range is but it was like you know 70 millimeter to 85 or whatever it was and those are your only choices nothing in between right so this apple camera is not a quote-unquote zoom lens because it never changes focal length.

2:10:22The focal length is always the same, and it does not have any moving lens elements, and from Apple's little diagram that they showed, all of its lens elements are, you know, flat like a pancake when you look at the back of the camera. There are no lens elements stacked sideways. There are prisms stacked sideways to kind of get the light over to where the sensor is, because the sensor is, like, not directly behind the camera, but it's over a little bit, so the prisms pass light through there, but it doesn't look like in their diagram that there are even any fixed lens elements let alone any moving one so no this is not a periscope camera no it is not a quote-unquote zoom lens because it never changes focal length it is a fancy longer focal length prime lens that gives you 120 millimeter equipment and i i share marco's uh pessimism about the quality of this versus the 1x lens but that's oh that's always the case with zoom lenses there to get one that has anything approaching the quality uh not a zoom lens but to get like more zoomed in lenses right to get anything approaching that quality you need a bigger and bigger assembly because putting more lens elements to magnify things that makes you lose light and that is the case in this as well but we'll have to see when people start testing this um i also agree with marco that having to go from 1x to 5x with nothing in between is going to be rough but honestly if those 5x pictures i really hope the 5x pictures look better than the 3x you know in terms of like light gathering noise sharpness all that and this is throwing a lot of technology at the 3x lens did not have a 3d optical image stabilization thing the 3x lens did not have a sensor that was this big so i hope it will be better than 3x but boy when you take a picture with the 1x and then take it with the 5x and pixel peep them it might be kind of grim and then the other interesting thing about this ui wise is apparently when you're using the 5x lens the camera app will show you like a thumbnail using the 1x camera kind of like the navigator in photoshop if you're familiar with that i have like a little outline like you are seeing this portion but really the whole picture is like this and that's to make it so people don't get lost because the 5x is so zoomed in they might have trouble finding their subject and if if you haven't used a real camera here this is a good example if you've ever used a telescope and tried to look at the moon with the telescope you will find out really quickly how hard it is to aim at something in the sky with a very zoomed in lens you're like oh just point the telescope at the moon all right that's the moon you look in you see blackness you're like but i'm pointing at the moon is the moon and then you move it you're like blackness and you move it again it's blackness right being zoomed in it's actually kind of hard to find your subject so apple is helping here by showing you using one of the other cameras to show you a wider view to basically let you know you are here yeah which super clever i love that idea and i know samsung did it first i don't care super clever yep all right so the ultra wide very briefly anti-reflective coding better better night mode uh f 2.2 and uh They briefly spoke again about macro photography and how amazing it is.

2:13:13So that means that the focal lengths available, your quote unquote seven lenses are macro, 13mm, 24, 28, 35, 48, and 120mm if you have a Pro Max. But you can also pinch and zoom for many, many other virtual lenses between that because let's be honest. There are a certain number of lenses and a certain number of sensors and a certain number of pixels and everything else between that is a quote unquote virtual lens that is using some subset of the sensor to give you an image. Yeah. Then, as we already discussed, much faster transfer speeds. You can now record ProRes video directly to an external storage drive, which means you can also do 4K60.

2:13:54They talked about log encoding. I don't know what that means, but apparently it's good. It's important for video people. It gives you more dynamic range. so you use you it's kind of like you think of it as being like uh well it's not really like raw but like you know how you can get more out of images if you capture in raw because you can see what the sensor saw and maybe recover things from the shadows that you couldn't get otherwise log encoding is a way of doing video where you you can recover more uh more dynamic range from the final thing if you look at log encoded video it looks like garbage but that's because you haven't actually done the process of recovering the uh the dynamic range from it yet fair enough they also have aces academy color encoding system which apparently is big deal for video uh spatial spatial video capture using the main and ultra wide cameras that will be available later this year this is massive i mean this is like for you know because when when the vision pro was uh you know announced and shown and they showed off the cool you know the the the creepy dad birthday thing that everybody hated but i liked that you know capturing the kids birthday like you know we talked so much about this is going to be amazing for Vision Pro of this wonderful feature of being able to capture 3D lifelike moments and replay them later.

2:15:02That's amazing. And even from that moment, everyone was speculating, well, someday, some future iPhone, maybe we'll be able to capture those photos and videos in 3D. Didn't think it would be two months later, but here we are. And so it's interesting, it's using, it's pro only and i think the reason why it's pro only is because of the arrangement of the cameras on the camera bump um and it's using you know as you mentioned it's using the one x and the ultra wide because they're next to each other and they're in line with each other when the phone is held sideways um and so what what is surprising to me is that that's far enough apart to make it work but i don't think it is like that's the thing like first thing they're not uniform the two cameras are different yeah presumably it is using a center crop on the one or on the wide to make it equivalent to the one x but there's actually some advantages to them not being the same because maybe the ultra wide can contribute some stuff to the final thing but it's not ideal right because like in the vision pro for example they don't have a a one x and an ultra wide for like it's two identical cameras i would assume um and the second thing is they're they're not too close together like it'll work it's better than one camera but they're not as far apart as they could be and they're not as far apart as human eyes bottom line right so it will it will be better than flat video but the video 3d video taken with the vision pro will be better still because those cameras are spaced more reasonably so good first attempt and i think part of the reason why people said oh someday you'll take it on the iphone people were envisioning kind of like a nintendo ds an iphone with two cameras that are about as far apart as your eyes and iphones are big enough to do that but that's not this camera this this camera is just you know they're right next to each other and they're doing the best they can with it so it's way better than nothing and you got to start where you are and where we are is we have cameras that look like this now so let's start with that but i do think and hope that you will that either either they will spread these apart over the years or that everyone will have vision pros and it won't matter because we'll all be taking it with our creepy dead headsets but you know that the best spatial camera is the special camera you have with you and you'll always have your iphone with you well i will always be wearing our for two hours anyway we're wearing our phones everywhere all right so we get a wi-fi 6e which i briefly looked into i think before we recorded last episode that is legitimately very fast like bananas fast i forget the numbers but i want to say it was well over gigabit speeds even in like real world use not just theoretical use but real world use so that's cool uh the pro phones start from$1 ,000 for 128 gigs, same as last year.

2:17:38The Max phones sort of, kind of, are the same as last year. They start at$1 ,200 with 256 gigs, which, quote, matches last year's price with this level of storage. Basically, what they did was they canned the 128 gig model and are forcing you to do 256 or more, but the prices are the same. You can pre-order Friday, which as you're listening to this is probably within 24 to 48 hours available on September 2nd, excuse me, the 22nd, the following Friday, which reminds me, TJ Loma wrote me or wrote us an email to remind me, maybe it was me, it doesn't matter. But anyways, to remind us, well, I can't tell you this because then you'll be ahead of me in line for the iPhone potentially.

2:18:19So you can listen to this later. But apparently what you can do is if you go through the Apple store app on your phone, they've gotten over the years very good at figuring out what it is you want and getting it all queued up and ready to go, which is old news. What they've done in the last year or two, though, which I'd forgotten about until TJ reminded me, is that one of the things you can do is at the last step of that process, you can optionally add an event to your calendar, which seems perhaps kind of silly. But what that lets you do is, as part of that process, it will generate a URL, like an App Store URL, or excuse me, not an App Store, an Apple Store URL that's stored in the event.

2:18:58And you can tap that. And when you tap that, it goes right into the Apple Store app and pre-selects, like everything gets you right where you need to go immediately. So I would strongly recommend, and this again, TJ pointed this out, I would strongly recommend doing that to make it a better likelihood that you can get what you want on Friday. And you're saving like two taps. When you launch the Apple Store app, you're pre-saved, like, Like, hey, I've got this phone ready to go. Like, it's above the fold, I think. Yeah, I mean, it doesn't seem like it makes a big difference, but it can make a big difference.

2:19:25So I do recommend that. Then finally, a couple other quick notes. iCloud storage, you can now get 6 or 12 terabyte plans, which I'm super excited about. Not extremely good value for money. I don't know, John, you had some thoughts on this. But still, the fact that there's more than 2 terabytes, I'm good with, especially since I think I'm getting close on my 2 terabyte plan right now. So that's very exciting. Yeah, iCloud storage tiers. continue to start at 50 gigabytes which is insulting uh for yes it is for one dollar for one dollar per month they just they keep doing that uh but how much do you get for free five gigs right that's right which is deeply insulting i i heard i heard i think it was jason somebody was saying that it's been that same amount since steve jobs was alive yeah no it hasn't changed it's been that much for way too long uh and but for the ones that you pay for setting aside the free one which is obviously just there to get you to buy one of the pay ones the dollar a month one uh that works out to twenty dollars per terabyte you're paying then you go up to the next tier and you're paying fifteen dollars per terabyte for 200 gigs and then every single other plan above 200 gigabytes is five dollars per terabyte so forget your your like the cost decrease twenty dollars fifteen five five five five five five five five five five five and so know to apple's credit or whatever google's plans for five and ten terabytes are also exactly five dollars per terabyte so that is what the market is offering now no matter how many terabytes you get it's five per unless you get the cheapskate plans and then we charge you 15 or 20 per if you're apple so i'm glad they have bigger storage tiers they remember they did also have a quote unquote four terabyte thing where you'd buy the two terabyte plan then you'd get apple one and have a family thing and then you could add two more on top of that i forget what the pricing on that was but i'm just going to guess it was five dollars per terabyte extra fair enough all right not in the event video ios 17 on monday the 18th sonoma on uh what is this is the 26 i don't have a calendar whatever day of the week that is the 26th um and it's apparently one of you noted i would assume john the first time a new mac os has been released in september since mojave in 2018 yeah because for the longest time i've been like mac os will come out in october but that's been annoying or you know after you know it's been it's been annoying for apple because so many of their features are sort of simultaneous on all platforms and if you're not going to release the mac thing until a month later then everyone's like oh do i upgrade my notes database or my photo library or i can't use this feature it's nicer for them to be closer together so i'm glad they were able to get the releases within a weekish of each other uh indeed and then finally in humongous, just tremendous Apple energy.

2:22:09They have come up with a USB-C to lightning adapter. Fine. That makes sense. $30. $30 f***ing dollars. Does it come free in the box with the thing like when they got rid of the headphone jack? Nope. Doubt it. Nope. $30 for USB-C to lightning. Just bananas. Just absolutely bananas. Related to that, as much as Apple charges, it's kind of one of those situations that we've talked one in the past where like i wish apple just made a usb hub because it's so hard to find one that's not crappy so i was briefly thinking you know what uh you know we have a bunch of cables hanging around but a lot of our charging like brick thingies has still have usba connectors on it and we don't have a lot of usba to usbc cables we have a lot of usbc to usbc cables but not not a lot of a to c so like i should just get an like a an a to c adapter just for charging not for data transfer or just an a to c adapter how big could that be it's a little it's like an a port on one side and just like no cable no wire just like an a and a c in one little thing and if you go on amazon you'll find a million of these things and all of them will burn your house down apparently it's like is there one of these that doesn't melt the connectors that you put in it just one no there's none there's zero then you're looking does apple make one because if apple makes one i'll pay the 30 and then eventually you just go up and say you know just get an a to c cable you can buy it from a reputable company it'll be fine so it just annoys me like this whole market it like that's not a useful pro i don't want an adapter that's ever going to melt my cables like i just know right and so now ideally instead i have to buy a cable from a reputable company and the reputable companies don't make the adapters and maybe the adapter is just a bad idea and no one should ever make them but just word of warning uh if you want a to c buy an a to c cable from a reputable company don't bother with those little adapters or just like look in your cabinet because everyone has a to c cables they come with everything right no but now that apple's been shipping c to c for a long time so if you're constantly buying oh yeah apple doesn't make one but like if you buy any any like rando amazon gadget that is powered by usbc chances are in the box is a usb a to c cable yeah you guys are all talking about all the lightning and usbc and the uniformity of your life and i continue to be i'm not going to say beset but a little bit beset by micro usb devices which are my cameras you got to get new cameras just for that reason alone That's it.

2:24:27I think it's time. They're very expensive. It's time. And I like my cameras. I like everything about them except for that connector and the doors on one of them. Also, we should quickly point out, Stephen Robles put up a video in the last, I don't know, 24, 48 hours where he had noticed that apparently Apple has killed the MagSafe Duo, which is the first party version of that Mophie thing that I really like. and my actually genuinely beloved MagSafe battery pack, which if you recall, YouTube basically said not it when this came out on buying one. And I bought it for a hundred frigging dollars.

2:25:05And I thought it was just gonna be a waste of a hundred bucks. And I did it just because, you know, we should talk about it on the show and et cetera, et cetera. It ends up that I actually really liked that thing. Like it is ridiculously expensive, but it's really nice. And it has great first party integration. Who'd have thunk it? But they've killed both of them. And there are some theories. I don't remember if it was Stephen talking about this. It might have been. Or there are some other people who are saying that, well, these phones aren't certified as Qi version 2. And presumably they will be.

2:25:33And maybe they're just waiting for that to happen before they release like some new Qi 2. Yeah, that's in the video. Like there's two things. One, apparently, supposedly Qi 2 will be able to have the same integration that the MagSafe thing is. Like it's showing up in the battery meter or whatever. Like so I'll be interested to see if that's true. But that would be great. Because there's going to be a ton of Qi 2 stuff out there. chi 2 can charge as fast as magsafe now there's no i don't think magsafe got a boost to be ahead of it again and it will be you know industry standard and if there's ios 17 integration so you could actually see the battery level of your battery pack or whatever that's going to be great but yeah apple's accessories that used to have lightning both of those things you described the battery pack and the two-in-one charger thing they both have lighting connectors they did not get replaced with usb-c ones but the lighting ones did go away so are they going away because they're about to be replaced by usbc one are they just going away because they're going away because once chi2 stuff comes out apple doesn't feel like they can try to make a battery pack because people will just buy chi2 ones and like apple's if this is true about chi2 having os integration the one of the biggest advantages of buying an apple battery thing that that os integration goes away so maybe apple feels like they can't compete anymore but we'll see hopefully we will see that's it that's your event so before we go marco what are you buying definitely the 14 or sorry geez the 15 pro um for myself 256 uh tiff's getting the pro max as she always does what color what color i think i'm gonna go the gray and i don't mean that as a joke the titanium like the natural one where like the back is just medium gray and the titanium looks kind of like titanium i think that's what i'm going for it's either going to be that or the light one, but probably the natural gray.

2:27:19I've also ordered a Series 9 Apple Watch. Fair enough. Did you get the big Apple Watch this time or little watch? I got the big one that's not the Ultra. Yeah, yeah, sorry. You are answering the question I was asking. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're answering the question I was asking. Okay, cool. John, what are you... You said Tina did buy a watch already, is that correct? She got a watch. She's getting the gold stainless because that's what she likes for appearances. I wish she didn't because it's so much more expensive but nevertheless there you have it she's getting the small size uh she's gotten a lot of these we were going through like we're gonna do some trade-ins or whatever because our one of our children is not accepting watch hand-me-downs anymore because she just doesn't want to wear watches anymore so like well fine we'll start trading these suckers in we'll get some money for them before they become worthless which happens so fast with the apple watch oh my god yeah so fast not much money for them either like the apple watches have horrendous trade-in values yes it's very bad but it's better than zero dollars anyway um but they're all they're all the small size whatever the 41 and honestly if i started wearing one again i was like oh you don't even have an apple watch like you kidding i have my pick of apple watch i could just go grab last year's model at any time and it's the small one and i think that's the one i would prefer but anyway she's getting that uh she debated a lot about the bands we didn't talk about the uh the new what are they called the the sport bands the ones that made of the plasticky whatever stuff uh the new ones they have have flex of other color in them so instead of being solid color and that's being pitched as like all those flex those are ground up old watch bands like they're basically recycling them by grinding them up into a bunch of little aggregate material and then flecking those into the new bands for an aesthetic appearance but also to reuse old ones i'm not sure how much of that i'm misremembering or how much is true but they certainly do look yeah that is what they said i and i think those those look kind of cool i don't love any of the color pairings they've made though uh like i think i think one thing that i would like a lot actually would be like a black and white one like a white band with like a bunch of black flex and i think that would look really cool oh yeah yeah i mean i think the problem is they can't get uniform colored flex because it's ground up random piles of watch oh excuse me midnight flex then yeah no no but like all having all the flex be the same color is what i'm saying i don't know if they're color sorting the flex but yeah but anyway uh she was considering that but i think she ended up picking one of the woven things or whatever um so yeah she's getting that with cellular because she uses that and so that means there'll be a series eight that is now rotating into the uh hand-me-down pile um and she it's her year for the phone uh and so she did go max a couple of years i think she i think the last time she got a big phone she like dropped it and shattered it twice and she blames that on it being big i'm not sure if that's true but evidence shown that she has not dropped it since going back to normal size phone so she's getting a 15 pro uh and uh she's getting it in natural because i'm trying to make a you make me feel like a natural woman thing but i can't figure it out the natural it's such a smart move there but it's like this is the natural color of titanium it's like well whether it is or isn't that's what we're doing and like in practice it seems like the you know i would call it uh it's the medium gray right but it looks a little bit warm doesn't it seem like a little bit warm yeah like it's not you know there's a little bit of a reddish shift to it um and you know she she's going to use a case on it or whatever but this is part of her calculus was like uh you know you do see that camera showing through and she wanted to get like a like a mulberry colored one of the fine woven cases uh and if you're going to get colorful cases she has purple cases pink cases or whatever it's nice to have a phone that's neutral and i just said this one is warm and not neutral but i think it will go well so she's getting natural titanium and we'll never see it because it'll be in a case she also is getting the matching wallet thing she's become a proponent of the magnetic wallet thingy as well oh did they update those with fine woven i didn't see those yeah well yeah because she finds all the accessories and like oh i get this it matches yeah so she's getting that too uh they're very expensive um and then uh also the battery that casey bought she bought that too and she likes it but there's no new one for her to buy so she's i guess could keep using her old one and keep charging it with lightning uh but yeah that's well first of all i would expect that's going to come back at some point they probably just aren't ready yet with it well that's the question though does apple feel like they have nothing more to contribute here because if chi 2 has os integration then why do you get the apple one no well i mean they make lots of it like other people make phone cases you know apple still makes them too but like the apple usually has something to add or they're not twice the price because that honestly that that for like the milliwatt hours or whatever uh milliamp hours it was so expensive on paper you should never buy it but the reality is the reason people bought it and actually we have one floating around my house too the reason why is because they're nicer in certain ways like it's not it's not nicer from tech specs perspective it's nicer looking it's nicer feeling it's nice and small and it has the nice integration with the phone in different ways you know showing the battery level on the phone so the idea is that she too is going to have that too maybe but you know i'm guessing apple will make another one that we just it just isn't ready yeah i mean i think they should because again if you just want to find a nice one it's not going to blow up in your pocket or whatever like you want to find a company that you think is doing good quality control that they're they're all going to be the same like i think they should make one oh no uh my wife wants uh just messaged me to remind me that she also got the new airpods which i feel like is a triumph of her holding off because she's always like oh my airpods are being a little bit weird or whatever i'm like they're going to come out with moons don't and then when the twos came out she's like ah mine are probably fine i'm like all right you can probably hold off a little bit longer but now now is the time to buy because it's really important for her to get them so they integrate that uh lowly in the audio with the vision pro right absolutely yeah she's getting that nice oh goodness all right so for us um aaron is going to be getting a new 15 pro of unknown color i haven't had a chance to talk to her about it uh i don't think she really cares that much since she is also immediately going to be putting it in a case um i don't i don't know what what because i think she'll probably tell me just choose because i don't care and i honestly don't know what i'm going to choose for her.

2:33:15And I don't remember what size she has either in terms of capacity. I would think that she's probably on a 256 and I'll probably just do that again, but I'll look at her usage and whatnot. For me, I think it's time. I think I'm going to do the Max phone. I think I'm probably going to regret it. I think it's happening because I want that 5X. Hey, it'll be good for the show. When you get it and when you hate it, it'll be good for the show. That's exactly it. I am so not confident about this that i've been genuinely kicking around the idea of buying a third phone with the expectation that i might need to return the max and i would buy a you know a second 15 pro as my backup and then return whatever one i don't end up keeping i'm not i don't currently plan to do that but i strongly kicked around the idea i mean you can do that in serial instead of in parallel i'm not sure you need to yeah to have them both going at the same time exactly but i plan to get a 15 Pro Max.

2:34:10Actually, as we were recording the most recent episode of Analog, which came out a few days ago, Mike kind of guilted and kind of encouraged me to get a pop socket, which I've also never had before. So this is still in box because I'm not sure if I'm going to need it or not. Why don't you get a keyboard case for your phone? Yeah, right. Exactly. It's going to be big enough. I might as well. So I have a pop socket literally in my hand right now that I've not opened, but I can if I think I'd need it. I'm going to get the blue, what is the Pacific blue, fine woven case with it. This is going to be a very expensive September between St.

2:34:46Jude and this. But I am genuinely kind of excited, or actually really excited to try the Max phone, even though I do think they are preposterously oversized, even though I will always and forever make fun of Mike for his diehard love of the Pro, or excuse me, the Max phones and Plus Club before it. I'm excited to try it. And it wouldn't surprise me at all if I end up saying, nope, this ain't for me. And it goes back within the first couple of weeks. But I'm excited to give it a shot. And I'm really excited about the 5X camera. Again, who knows what will come? Maybe it'll end up that I don't like the camera and or I don't like the size of the phone.

2:35:23But I often use the 3X camera and I often wish it was more. I really, really wished it was 4X or 5X or 6X or what have you. and so i'm really looking forward to having a longer throw i'm that's probably not the right turn to turn a phrase but a longer throw camera on on my phone i'm really looking forward to it and like marco said jokingly but also not jokingly it'll make for good content on the show if nothing else because neither aaron nor i has ever gone plus or max club before and so it's gonna be great this is your first one yeah this is gonna be how long is where he breaks this well that's why i've the damn pop socket i would maybe get apple care on that yeah yeah i don't want to because you should get some new pants too well the thing of it is is that the couple of phones that a couple of phones that i had apple care on i shattered so my timing was excellent but i it's almost it's almost a self-fulfilling prophecy right so in any case that's the plan and i will be ordering you know friday morning and hopefully i will enjoy what i've done but we shall see yes for reference i the yellow 14 plus that I have for here for testing.

2:36:31I have occasionally tried. Let me put the 14 plus in my pocket and walk around the house for a couple hours with that as my phone. I've never lasted more than an hour. Like, because it's just, it's so big. And it's lighter. Like, it's substantially lighter, you know, being the non-pro series. It's just too big for me. I can't do it. But hey, more power to those of you who can. Well, and that's the thing. That's the thing is that I think if in a couple hours of use, I'm going to frigging hate it. But I hope, I hope that after, you know, a week or so, I'll have adjusted. But we'll see. Maybe I could, this might be hilarious.

2:37:05And you will adjust, you know, but like you will adjust to a certain plateau. People can get used to anything, even torture. Wow. And a certain somebody from inside the Syracuse household has just sent me a text saying, I dropped my large phone less than two weeks after getting it. Get Apple care. She has a very good point. Yeah, you're going to last two hours. and finally I will end with when I asked Tiff what color phone she would like me to order for her on minute zero I showed her the pictures of the colors and she said those colors make me sad they do look like a rainy day they do so yeah so she still has not decided which color to get because she hates all of them and then I sent her the link to Apple's cases because she gets like a silicone case every year and her response to The case colors was blah.

2:37:56She doesn't like mulberry. My wife is big on the mulberry. Loves it, if that's what it's called. Whatever that like burgundy purple-ish. I think that's right. Yeah, yeah. No, Tiff's not a purple person, unfortunately, because they've had some good purples in recent years. But yeah, anyway. Thanks to our sponsors this episode, Collide and Clean Email. And thanks to our members who support us directly. You can join us at atp.fm slash join. Thanks, everybody. Good luck with your ordering. And we will see you next week. Now the show is over. They didn't even mean to begin. Because it was accidental.

2:38:33Oh, it was accidental. John didn't do any research. Marco and Casey wouldn't let him. Because it was accidental. Oh, it was accidental. And you can find the show notes at ATP.FM. And if you're into Twitter You can follow them At C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S So that's Casey Liss M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M-E-N-T Marco Arman S-I-R-A-C-U-S-A-C-R-U-S-A-C-U-S It's accidental Accidental They didn't mean to Accidental Accidental

2:39:25All right, let's do something different for an after show. Marco, do we have any sort of Rivian updates that you would like to share? I have the most important update possible, which is follow up on what color is my car? We keep trying to figure it out. I'm not sure where to go with this, but okay, tell me more. I have the most important follow up that I can have on this. the most important reference object there is to refer to look in the slack i'm not sure the lighting is right to really capture it but yeah this is i mean so here's the thing about the t-shirt slow down slow down nobody knows what we're looking at this is why we don't do video so i i have a picture taken with my good camera john for your white balance concerns i can tell i can tell uh a picture of the gold hypercritical t-shirt sitting on top of my yellow Rivian hood right before it got very dirty in a rainstorm.

2:40:24So this is the last moment of its factory cleanness. This is how my car color compares to a hypercritical shirt. And actually, it compares fairly well. It's a very similar overall color. The car color is a little bit desaturated version and a little bit lighter than the shirt. It's got a little bit more brown in it. yeah well again your car is a chameleon it changes color depending on what light it's in but a lot of people are sending me pictures of these because like the the gold shirts are arriving and that's like the sort of signature color and one thing that i have learned i mean this is obvious if you think about it but it's really highlighted when people show pictures is they show here's my five-year-old shirt and here's the replacement that gold does not stay looking like that for five years right kind of like your car although hopefully your car holds up better than a t-shirt but you put that thing through the wash for five years and it does not look that gold so you should five years from now if you still have that shirt and it hasn't been shredded or destroyed put it on top of your car then and see if it changes because yeah when you buy new clothing especially brightly colored clothing boy it looks so bright when it's new but a few trips through the wash especially if you're not particularly careful about uh washing your colors and keeping them bright bright bright like in the you know detergent commercials that i just assume still run on television but i never see uh yeah they fade and i hope i hope your car doesn't fade but cars fade too that's why when if you you know get an older car into an accident have to get something repainted and they're like we'll get the color right from the factory yeah you usually don't want to do that because your car is no longer the color it was when it came from the factory especially if it was a super duper bright color because uh colors fade over time like all of us yeah