597: Apple Watch Shuffle

44:46And other ones will just take a HomePod, like a big HomePod, and slap a rectangular screen on it or whatever. We've talked to everyone who's had any HomePods or any discussion about them. We've been talking for years about the useful things that can be done on a screen with a home-type accessory. I know a lot of people have got the Amazon ones, and like many Amazon things, those screens end up as just an opportunity for you to show your advertisement. It's just not great. Presumably Apple would do less of that. except for advertising their own products, as we discussed in the previous episode.

45:17But I think a home device that has a screen on it could be very useful. This is also the vessel for everyone's hopes and dreams, because they're like, it'll be a big HomePod with amazing sound, and it'll have a screen, and it'll show my kids' calendar and everything on it. And it'll also be my Apple TV, and it'll also be my mesh Wi-Fi router for the whole house, and it'll also be my internet gateway and my security. And then it's just like, all right, let's calm down. like if we've looked at one what apple has actually shipped into the home they tend to not have a lot of computing power and not do too many things the apple tv is the is the big bruiser in the home because it tends to have the best chip in it so it can literally do its job to show like 4k hdr video whatever and even that is massively underpowered compared to like an m4 ipad or even an iphone these days right but a home accessory with a screen that is in your house i squint out and i say what will this be doing for me will this be a speaker will this be an apple tv with a screen that doesn't make sense a speaker with a screen makes me think well but to do its job as the speaker is kind of at odds with the screen part or will it just be a thing that's not a speaker and not an apple tv and has some dinky little watch chip in it and has a screen attached to it and just lets you see your kid's calendar and talk to apple's voice assistant and hopefully cheese hopefully have enough ram to run apple intelligence and that would be i guess i don't know i guess the equivalent of uh uh you know amazon echo or something but those are all speakers too so i don't i don't i don't understand these rumors i don't understand the like i i seeing actual code in tv os betas that seem to show a lock screen only makes sense in the context of i suppose a thing with a device because i'm trying to think is there context on tv os on apple tv where you have a lock screen i don't think so people don't have touchscreen tvs and i think i don't think they'd make you use the keypad to unlock it with a numerical code or whatever but anyway these these rumors i've mostly been ignoring because there's there's been a lot of smoke but no fire here for years but now that there's actual code being released that has traces of this in it that makes me think that something is happening so we've got device identifiers and we've got code but for the life of me i can't think of what this thing could possibly be other than like a not very good speaker with a not very good screen on it i mean i'm assuming i mean obviously i'm sure it would have some kind of basic speaker functionality i think it would be a lot like you know the amazon show kind of devices but i think apple's angle on it hopefully would be a lot like um is it called standby mode on the iphone where you turn it inside is that what it's called yeah standby mode for home kit yeah like i i think it would basically be like a projection of you know maybe it would run its own like ios apps or more likely maybe it would like project the widgets from your phone for standby mode the same way your phone can project its stuff onto a nearby mac maybe that's maybe that's how it would work.

48:19But I think that would kind of be Apple's angle is like it would be something similar to what we see as standby mode on the iPhone of just like a way for apps to project limited kind of dashboard-y status kind of things to be displayed in the home, along with obviously being a Siri terminal, the same way HomePods are. My concern is not that it would be a crappy speaker. Apple has a really good track record of making extremely good speakers, especially for their size for quite some time now, probably almost a decade. Their audio engineering team has been really, really good, and they make very good speakers now.

48:56So I think I wouldn't be too skeptical about having a good speaker system for playing music. My worry is, as always, Siri, which we'll see. Hopefully something new in this department would be able to run Apple Intelligence and would be able to have whatever advanced Siri stuff is going to come. I think my larger worry is that what we've seen with the HomePod so far is they really don't put a lot of effort into them and they're really buggy. And so what this ends up giving us is hardware that is not updated very often with software that is unreliable and a voice assistant that is not very good.

49:37And it's been very frustrating as we talked about on the show, they make really great speakers and then Siri and the software kind of let them down over time. if they're going to do something like this what's going to change that what's going to make them care more to invest in the you know the software and these products that are probably going to be like quote hobby levels of sales are they going to be able to actually push it and make them good and care about them enough to like follow through because Apple starts a bunch of stuff and then like there's not enough follow through so if this becomes that kind of product the same way the home pods typically have been i don't think i would trust it to be very good or to stay very good over time but if they actually like put some effort behind it this could be a really nice thing that many of us have on our kitchen counters in a year or two it makes sense if you know the home strategy is kind of like fumbling and slow as it's been to have some kind of like home control center like in the ideal apple home every all your accessories are home kit you control your your climate control is on there all your smart lights are on there you You can see your security cameras on there.

50:45And then also you have access to all of your Apple information, like your calendars that you share with your family. And just like having a screen somewhere in your house where it's like, you know, there's tons of ways to do that. You can talk to your phone to do it. You can talk into the air and HomePod will hear you like you can do all sorts of stuff to control that. But having a screen where it's like, this is my dashboard for my house. That makes perfect sense. And it also does make sense why people see that and say it should also be my Wi-Fi router and all the other stuff or whatever. my concerns about it being a speaker like it should also be a speaker well it probably has to have some kind of speaker but i'm not i'm not concerned that it's gonna be like a bad speaker as in like just you know doesn't sound good for it the cost of the speaker i'm afraid that the device will be like as expensive as a big home pod with the audio quality of the small home pod the home pod mini whatever and that's not a great combination and like honestly the the like home dashboard screen thing probably shouldn't go in the same place as you would put a speaker unless it's a home pod mini quality speaker because you're just like oh we want this to be in the kitchen and it's nice to have music in the kitchen and it's fine but if you if you have big home pods people are setting them up or in the music listening room or whatever around their tv so i i still think there is kind of a conflict uh also with the idea that the screen is some big flat thing that they have to arrange in some way where it doesn't bounce the sound from the speaker off right because you're not going to just i i don't i don't envision it as being that little circle on top of the full-size home pod being a screen i envision the screen being bigger than that like when i'm looking at this is kind of like a cheap home ipad right because you need kind of an at least an ipad mini size screen right and something capable of running some kind of dashboardy widgety type things on it like the standby screen and all that i just i don't know i i worry that like i think apple again to be clear i think apple should have a product in this category they should have a screen thing that controls your house i'm just not sure apple is going to strike the right balance between the cost of the thing the size of the screen the quality of the audio and the voice assistant like if this thing if this product comes out and it can't do apple intelligence i'm gonna be like what are you even doing over there okay and and you may think that's not gonna happen this thing hasn't even released that surely it'll be out with apple intelligence but something everything is so compartmentalized and to your point marco the home the whatever section of the company does the home products does not seem to have a lot of resources money time and effort put into it right and that's not the fault of the people working on it it's the priority set by the company right which is probably based on the sales of those things or whatever but if you're going to be in the home be in the home have a full line of products have a suite of things that works together eventually have a wi-fi mesh router but you know but a thing with the screen would be a good start i just like it what is what does this land in it lands in an environment where the apple tv is the best product in the entire like family of the home products which not that the apple tv is bad or anything but who would have thought that years ago was like the home pod the big home pod is still not setting the world on fire and the mini is good for what it is but it is still mini and the number of updates these products get is low and they're all all these products that depend entirely on you talking to them because they don't have any screens or any other interface are not getting apple's new thing that you talk to which really just puts a pall over the entire home product line of saying oh so all the things i talked to my house they're not getting any smarter and there's been a couple stories about this people surmising like you know or theorizing how apple might deal with that you know can they do it all on the server and send it back are they not going to do it on the server and send it back because that would require big software updates to deal with that because of the way they do things now and it would make them even less responsive and they're already not responsive because they're slow like it's not set in stone that these things will never get smarter but our hopes are low our expectations are low based on how again how much effort is put into these products to begin with and how reliable they've been for even the basic functionality that they've had for years and years yeah so i feel kind of like we're like uh you know that when uh jason snell has that like apple report card every year and he asked about the home stuff and it's like i always give it kind of a not great grade because i just feel like the effort's not there every once in a while there's a standout product i do like the apple tv but you know another another product that's going to be hooked into this whole big ecosystem uh you know we're still waiting for that big matter and threads radio revolution to make everything more reliable and standardized and interworking with everything else and we're just not there yet.

55:14Yeah. I don't know. This is just something I personally don't have any particular need for. So it's hard for me to get super excited about it. I think it's something that Apple should absolutely be exploring and it sounds like that's what they're doing, but I don't know. I don't feel like I have a need for a screen in my kitchen. And we have some friends that have a big Amazon doodad in their kitchen. It's probably like a 13 screen or something like that. And it's just not for me. And it seems like it does show some useful and informative things. But generally speaking, it's like you said, it seems to largely be trying to hawk different things at Amazon.

55:51It's just not for me. I wonder how many people have an old iPad in their kitchen and use that as like their kitchen speaker through like the iPad speakers. You know what I mean? Like, because having an iPad in the kitchen for doing recipe stuff or having a calendar up on is like i know a lot of people who have screens in their kitchen for that purpose let's so it's essentially the modern equivalent of the calendar that's like you know magnet to your refrigerator that shows all the kids activities and stuff most people track that online these days having a visual representation of the family calendar in the family place like the kitchen makes sense and also you can watch shows on it while you're doing dishes or pull up recipes or play music from across the kitchen on like a five-year-old ipads speakers or whatever but ipads are expensive and not exactly well suited to that as they sit on whatever you know foldy triangle stand that they came with years ago that's all disgusting from sitting on kitchen counters or whatever like you can imagine a better product in that area but like when i look at the ipad and then i look at everything apple makes in the home it's clear which one of those products gets more attention and is generally better executed and it's the ipad ipads are expensive and they're usually pretty good, especially when they're new.

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59:05All right, you want to do some Ask ATP? I haven't done that in a little bit. Let's do it. All right, this is from Anonymous. Given Syracuse's frequent mentions of the ancient relic of a bygone time called Pearl... You are editorializing. That is not in this person's message. I think it was implied. Is there a reason to learn Pearl today? Well, no. Do we need to keep reading? I think we're good. Obviously, there's always the chance of becoming the one person who can maintain this critical COBOL pipeline at a place that has such a case with Perl. But I mean worthwhile more in the sense of this will teach you something useful about programming that will benefit your non-Perl work.

59:41Or pure, this is a good intellectual pursuit. So obviously, John, you're going to say, heck yes. Yeah, I mean, especially with this framing. Like, this will teach you something about programming? Absolutely. Like one of the things I'm always touting about Perl is that I'm so glad that I learned it very deeply very early in my career for many reasons, but also for this reason of like teaching something useful about programming. every concept that i eventually encountered in some other language i encountered first in pearl because pearl has the ability has the ability to be used to explore lots of programming concepts and also for whatever reason the people attracted to pearl use that ability to explore lots of weird computing concepts stuff that took years and years to show up in other languages and i'm not talking about regular expressions i'm talking about like stuff that goes by different names other languages like roles and traits and different ways of doing class compositions and you know obviously single inheritance multiple inheritance all the things that everyone knows from older languages right but like just so many different experiments how to implement objects internally how to make your own object system how that should work how to how to you know metaprogramming languages like so much of that stuff was in Perl before it was anywhere else now it was in Perl in a weird way made by one or two people that was not an official part of the language yada yada yada but it's kind of like a little like build your own language construction kit because pearl has was so so powerful and had so many capabilities to experiment with things and most of the experiments were in the pearl ecosystem failures or didn't catch on or whatever but you would encounter them and maybe even use them to do a useful project and learn what their pros and cons are and so i really do appreciate pearl for that purpose so were you to learn pearl even today i think and say it was like your first or second language like you learned some other you know more mainstream language than you learn pearl if you really learn all about pearl and used it to do stuff when you moved on to let's say swift there is very little in swift that you would look at and not have seen something like that in pearl even all the weird concurrency stuff and all that like there are equivalents to that in pearl and you'd squint and say oh this is how swift is dealing with that problem and i've seen something similar to this in fact there was three three failed projects in pearl that tried to do stuff like this and so yes i think you will learn tons of concepts if you really get into Perl and into the ecosystem or whatever.

1:02:02Now, the ecosystem is kind of old and crusty at this point, and you might have to do a little archaeology to find all those failed experiments in the past. But having lived through it in real time when they weren't failed experiments, it did definitely prepare me for that. Second thing is benefiting your non-Perl work. If you do anything where you might need a scripting language to do stuff on a Unix system, I still think Perl is one of the best choices to do that type of stuff. Obviously, you can do it in shell script and more advanced shells have more advanced features you could use any you know you can use node.js you can use python you can use ruby you can use any of these sort of dynamic programming languages and quote-unquote scripting languages but pearl is still in that conversation it's commonly found and depending on what you're doing pearl might be the fastest best and easiest way to do it obviously i do tons of stuff like this on my system in pearl because it's the language i know the best but even if i didn't even if you're not a pearl person you will have occasion to encounter a task where the best solution is a three-line pearl script and your ability to make that three-line pearl script instead of banging your head against shell or trying to remember how to do it in your in your favorite programming language where you tend not to do tasks like that pearl is a utility thing that it has not gone away for decades and i think will be a good thing to have in your toolkit if you're kind of a read it in the quote real language after that because the apis are so similar so uh and then yeah obviously you know being the one person who knows pearl in a company that has a huge code base like that hopefully you don't find yourself in that situation but it is uh it is a a thing that can potentially like those cobalt people get you paid a lot of money if you really are the only person unfortunately i'm going to say with pearl there's tons of people who know it so it's not going to be like cobalt where you're going to be paid some uh huge sum of money to come in and rescue a company with a code base that no one else can understand there's still a lot of people out there who know pearl and they're employed using it do you think genuinely that there's a appealing or compelling reason to learn it for like production code like if you were to do presumably something web today would you choose what or would would you suggest pearl as a choice for some web-based thing yeah probably not for web-based stuff for production stuff um um as a as a glue language it depends like it depends if there's another if there's another language that a project is already using that can fill that role then just use the other language but if if you're in a situation where there's nothing filling this kind of glue role and the other language is like rust or swift or something i would say pearl is better suited to those glue language type tests than either of those languages and so knowing it and being able to deploy it for the things that it's good at is important um and like i said for one-off little thingies that you need to do to do some simple thing it's good to know this but i see people all the time like trying to do stuff with shell script and i look at it and it's like this this is why pearl was invented because shell script was annoying and you had you can make these complicated you know huge pipelines in unix with awk and grep and said and it's like how about we just combine all that plus access to the full unix api one language that's pearl right so it seems like people are going back in time and they're like oh i need to do this task and they start writing a shell script and in the shell script they're using set and awk and it's like you're like you've forgotten your history we that was found to be unsatisfactory and not as portable as you wanted and slow and annoying and buggy and that's what that's what pearl is for if you are in that mindset and you're comfortable with those tools you will be also be comfortable with pearl instead of having to use multiple different tools and worry about different versions of grapacross systems and worrying about if everybody has bash or if they're just using the born shell or if they're using fish or whatever like pearl pearl still fills that role there's no replacement for that thing it's just that that is a much smaller job than like you were saying casey like oh if you had to write a web app would you write it today in pearl no of course i wouldn't write it in php either but then what do i end up working on at the time a php web app you can it will work it's just maybe not the best choice.

1:06:28Yeah. Yeah. All right. Thomas Brock writes, what is the correct placement for the charging port on an electric vehicle? So you can check your answers. Here's my answer key in the form of a tier list. For Thomas, the S tier was left front quarter panel. So that's basically in front of the driver's door in countries where the driver is on the correct side of the car. A tier is left rear quarter panel, front center. I'm not, what does front center mean? There's two locations. It's a tier list. What's in the A tier, left rear quarter panel, and front center? Sorry. I'm with you now. B, right front quarter panel, C, rear center, and F, right rear quarter panel.

1:07:04I think for me, this is actually relevant because follow-up, we ended up getting Erin a car. She has, we have leased for the very first time, a brand new XC90 Recharge, which is a plug-in hybrid. So we sort of kind of have an electric car now. And hers is in the front, left front quarter panel. So in front of the driver's door, I don't love it. I would prefer it in the back of the car. It works. It's fine. But, you know, we back into the garage because we are awesome. And so the back of the garage is where the charger plugs into the house. And then you have to sling it all the way up the garage into the front of the garage where the plug or where the receptacle is for the car.

1:07:52And I don't love that. Yes, I suppose we could turn the car around if we really wanted to, but we've been parking this way for the 16 years we've been in the house. We're not going to change now. So for me, I think the driver's side in whatever your particular country is, the driver's side of the car in the rear quarter panel is what I would say is the best place for it. So I, as the only one of us who ever drives electric until I guess this moment, I agree. so with some asterisks so the rivian has it in the driver's side front corner teslas all have it in the driver's side back corner and tiff's i3 has it i think in the worst place which is the passenger side back corner the main question is how easy is it to charge it wherever and however you park so i think the driver's side wins no matter what like it driver's side is always the right choice for you know you know left or right driver's side definitely because a lot of times you have to get out plug it in then maybe get back into the car for some reason like to check to see if it's starting or whatever or just to hang out in the car while it charges so driver side is the right answer for side but front or back there's benefits to both the advantage of the back is it's generally easier if you if you back in to wherever you are um and you do have to consider like you're going to charge it both you know at home hopefully if you have some kind of garage or setup there like you can charge it at home but also when you get to a fast charger on a long highway trip and how are those set up and how easy is it to pull in and out of those some of those you could have actually like you like pull through arrangements but that's fairly unusual most of them are like they're in big rows with like you know one side solids you can't pull all the way through so it is more convenient to have it on the back corner if you are a good enough driver to want to and be able to back into things uh reliably it is quite entertaining because this is where again this is where all teslas have theirs it is quite entertaining watching tesla drivers pull into superchargers who you can tell they don't do this very often maybe and you can tell like oh this person has never had to back their car into a spot before and it is you know quite entertaining watching it but anyway that i think is the is the best it's like the most convenient spot for it is a driver's side and if you like pulling into things you know backing into things uh then the back and if not then the front yeah i think that that makes a lot of sense john do you have an opinion about this despite being completely ignorant i mean i haven't actually uh ever charged an extra car so this is all just speculative but i was kind of thinking about like with gas cars like why it is where it is on gas cars uh and obviously it varies from car to car honda is a driver's side uh thing but i haven't don't even need to mention where it is front rear because at least in this country it's pretty much always the back half of the car somewhere back in the 70s sometimes it was literally like in a dead center back like underneath the logo of the car maker or whatever but in general these days it's you know it's some part of the back half of the car uh right thinking companies put it on the driver's side for the reasons marco mentioned and uh companies that are doing it wrong i i disagree with that actually i I think it's better because both our cars have the gasoline going in the passenger side.

1:11:09And while on the surface, I agree with you that it should be on the driver's side, what ends up happening is almost everyone has it on the driver's side. Like almost every car manufacturer does it on the driver's side. And so if you're a passenger side car, you can just scoot right up to the pump because more often than not, nobody's there. Well, that's what I was getting at. I was like, why is the back part, setting aside the side, why is the back part where it is? and it has a lot to do with how quickly you can fill a car up with gas and the way gas stations are structured to be kind of like a line of cars and you go in, you fill up, you go out, you go in, you fill up, you go out.

1:11:44Sometimes they stack them, like my local gas station stacks the pumps next to each other so there's a front pump and a back pump in each of the little rows with the expectation that if the person in the front pump is there and you pull them behind them at the back pump, the person in the front pump will leave and now you're blocking, you're at the back pump but you're blocking the front pump, but no big deal you're probably going to be gone in two minutes anyway because how long does it take to fill up with gas like it doesn't jam up the thing you could never do electric charging like that because then you'd be there for 45 minutes and people be like i want to get to the pump in the front of you but i can't because you're blocking me they would never arrange electric car chargers that way because the cars could be there for a much longer time than just a few minutes and that's why if you're wondering like why are we having this discussion about gas pumps versus charging ports it's a very different you know usage case where the expectation is and i know people go into the thing and they buy potato chips and they take too long or whatever but anyway you could be charging 45 minutes right and hopefully you're not going to be clogging up a gas pump for 45 minutes so that's why there's a different answer my personal preference would be for the for the same reason that i don't like backing into parking spots but i want the port to be on the front because i think it is it is more time sensitive for you to get into the parking spot or the charging thing than it is for you to leave it you need to clear the parking lot or the line of cars trying to find a thing or whatever you need to get out of the flow and into your charging spot fast so don't take the time to go and stop and back in or whatever go in nose first and i don't think the front center is great for that because that's a place where you can hit things and it'll screw it up whatever so it's got to be on the quarter panel and i think it should be on the driver's side quarter panel now as uh thomas wrote uh reading from his uh message here bonus points for porsche to putting a charge port on both the left and right side like in the mccann uh lots of car companies do that the fancier ones will have a charge port on both sides of the car so then you have to don't have to argue about which side but again i think the front is my preference because i'm not a backer inner for the record uh real time follow-up the reason the gas and uh cap or whatever the the gas shoot i can't think of the word i'm looking for the thing that where you put the gas the reason that's in the back is because typically the gas can't or the gas can the gas tank is in the back yeah exactly man words are hard um so anyways although even even in like well i guess even in rear engine cars is there like the gas tank does move around in some cars in some ways but and again it has been in different places historically you can find lots of old cars where the you'll show it to a modern person they just won't be able to find where they're supposed to put the gas in and not because it's electric uh but yeah we've really standardized on the rear quarter panel in this past few decades yep russell fitzpatrick writes i've been using arc backup for many years it backs up to backblaze B2 cloud storage, which bills me per gigabyte per month.

1:14:25I also use Time Machine to a local disk. The monthly cloud storage bill keeps growing as my backup is incrementally added to over time. I'd love to hear if you have a strategy to keep backup sizes from endlessly expanding over time. Do you tail it, thin it, or just keep adding to it indefinitely and accept that the monthly bill will keep growing until you retire from using computers? This is a great question to which I don't have a good answer. I will say, and I think we talked about last week, the week before, my backup vortex had a little bit of a chink in the armor insofar as the Synology that was living at my parents' house had died, or so I thought.

1:15:00What it ended up happening was, forgive me if I'm repeating myself, is that the power supply, which is external on this particular Synology, because it's a physically small Synology, the brick power supply had failed, so I got a new power supply, now it's right as rain. But I bring all this up to say, depending on what your particular setup is, you could get a duplicate of, and you know, how much you're willing to spend on it. You could get a duplicate, even a physically smaller and cheaper duplicate of your main, you know, network attached storage and put that at a friend's house, at a relative's house or something like that, and potentially back up to it.

1:15:32And Synology makes this really easy to do. Granted, Synologies are not cheap and, you know, filling them with hard drives is not free, but I don't ever really have to worry about the size of things because in a worst case scenario, I'll just either replace or add a new drive and suddenly I've got that much more space. Marco, I have a feeling you will not have too much to add here since you've mostly gotten out of this game. And then, John, let's finish up with you, please. Yeah, I don't currently use Arc. I switched back to just regular Backblaze ever since I stopped really needing to back up a NAS.

1:16:03Because, you know, regular Backblaze will back up any kind of external drive. So if you if your entire data set can be what's on your computer possibly plus also what's on an external drive, then regular backblades will back that up for its regular flat rate so you don't need to pay per gig so it's kind of not really a problem um it's only it's only a problem when you start talking about you know backing up network devices and network shares that's when you start having to pay per gig for various solutions um and arc is good for that there's lots of other solutions as well um so i don't really personally have this problem honestly i i think the i mean that being said, Arc, if the problem is just the incremental backups just being changed data as opposed to lots of new data, I think the incremental backups have various thinning features built into the client's.

1:16:56In this case, Arc, I'm pretty sure it has retention management features to help keep the backup set to only keep, say, the last 60 days or whatever you want to set it to. I would look at some of those options if you're having that problem. john yeah it's not entirely clear like uh how the decision to use arc with backblaze b2 and be charged per gigabyte was arrived at like if you're just backing up a single machine you can get a flat rate thing which is a great deal right backblaze flat rate for a single machine or whatever i don't know if there's any nastas in the mix here but anyway no matter what i think having a cloud backup is a good idea and if for whatever reason the cloud backup you have is going to charge you per gigabyte because you can't use one of the flat rate ones or you just don't want to you're going to be faced with the problem we all face which is that we accumulate data that we care about over time and the graph may be lumpy but it just goes up right and mostly we've been relying on the fact that storage gets cheaper over time because of the advances of technology but if you keep living you're going to keep making data the only way to stop that data from getting bigger over time is to die because you're going to be taking more pictures of your family and you're not going to it's again i've said this a million times you don't want to go back and throughout the baby pictures once you get the graduation pictures you want to keep them all right now you can thin them the question of like how do i keep this under control all you're doing is slowing down the slope you're never going to reverse it you're always going to have more and more did but you can decrease the slope by doing things that marco mentioned the you know how many days worth of incrementals do you want to keep that's a great knob to turn again that's not changing it too much but you can you know you can get a one-time uh dividend from that um are you backing up stuff that you don't actually care about are you backing up your applications folder at one time backing up your applications folder made sense these days where applications basically come from the internet and are often subscription-based anyway there's probably almost nothing in your applications folder that you need to back up confirm that look at your applications folder say hey if i was setting up a new mac can i get all these applications somewhere do i have all my serial numbers can i get the installers do i hack do i have some data in my applications folder that i shouldn't maybe i should move it out of there but the applications folder is not only potentially large but also a huge source of churn every time like the adobe updater runs and does a bunch of stuff and then you're just wasting time and churn and filling your incremental backups with you know 30 days worth of the updates to whatever the mac app store and your adobe updater is doing behind the scenes right uh and things that grow without bound like your photos you can go through your photos and start thinning them but i would caution you that it's very easy to get into a situation where you're either frustrated or panicked and decide you're going to get some storage back by deleting some pictures and regret that a few years later right because i mean you don't want to keep every picture but deleting stuff that is literally irreplaceable like years old pictures is something worth considering and not doing when you're again and frustrated or in a hurry or something like that it's tempting because very often it's the biggest thing on your computer but you know think twice so yeah i think a combination of those strategies uh trying to find flat rate backup um you know don't back up stuff you don't actually need to keep things that you can get elsewhere right if you're if you're backing up a bunch of huge media files throw them out right like just you know don't stop backing them up and you're like but what if i what if i lose all my media it's still so much better than losing your kids baby pictures right so yeah don't be like you know paying per gig to back up like ripped blu-ray mkvs because like after a while you will have paid more than it would have cost to just buy like the streaming version of it in five years if you lose it right like you lose them all just rebuy them all maybe it's like well i won't be able to get blu-rays anymore well hopefully you still have those discs but if you don't you can probably buy them somewhere yeah here's the thing like you in the future like off in the distance you can always go to ebay and buy blu-rays for like two dollars like trust me if that won't be a problem or you hope but anyway like let's really think about what do I actually need to back up?

1:20:52But in the end, the thing you need to wrap your head around is as you keep living, you will keep accumulating data, and all you can do is try to bend the slope of that line down, but it's never going to decrease. You're just going to have more and more data that you need to back up. And just accept that. And it's just a cost of doing business, a cost of being alive. Finally, Ty Bolt writes, why doesn't Apple put a small battery in desktop Macs? It would eliminate any concern with power surges or outages and no need to have an ungainly and annoying ups i get that but it takes up space it's heavy it eventually goes bad i just i don't i don't think that the juice is worth the squeeze on this but john it's real it's real close to a revelation here why don't they just put a small battery in them we wouldn't have to deal with those clunky ungainly and annoying ups's the ups's are that big because that's how big a battery you need to power a computer for any amount of time so if you could put a small battery inside the mac you would also be able to have a ups that's the size of an apple tv but you don't the ups are huge right and that's kind of the problem to get a ups that is worth anything that gives you enough time to do a panic shutdown that gives you enough time to to do automated shutdowns which mac os supports it can do like hey i'm on ups power i'm going to shut everything down right that battery needs to be big enough that it's heavy ungainly needs to be replaced like a ups battery adds cost weight and volume that's why they don't do it because the battery would need to be just it would ruin apple's computers you're like well they put batteries in laptops and that's not a problem it's like yeah they're designed to be battery powered apple's desktops are not designed that way even the gigantic mac pro all that space in there in theory it's designed to hold stuff other than batteries and let me tell you the mac pro is already heavy enough please do not put a gigantic battery inside it yeah i mean i think the answer really is number one, you don't want to get rid of ungainly annoying UPSs because then you have no footrests unless you use subwoofers.

1:22:55But number two, you're so close to it, Ty. You're so close to the solution here, which is use a laptop as a desktop and then this problem goes away. Like magic, Marco. Like magic. And the laptops are so good that you can do that and you're not really giving up anything and in fact sometimes like right now you actually have the best desktop performance available in certain contexts so anyway yeah that's i think that's the answer is if you really don't want if you really don't want a ups and you want battery backup power for your desktop um just get a laptop as a desktop it's super easy or just get a laptop computer with a ups because that's what it takes to to provide uninterruptible power to devices it requires a big battery and really honestly you want that big battery to be separate because that battery will eventually go bad and you'll need to replace it and all that you can do without touching your computer but just messing with your ups all right thank you to our sponsors this week squarespace and trade coffee and thank you to our members who support us directly one of the member perks that we offer is atp overtime a weekly additional bonus topic or segment about some topic of that we kind of just couldn't fit in the main show or never quite got to so this week's overtime if you remember is going to be uh on apple's product longevity and in particular um they released a longevity by design paper we're going to be discussing apple product longevity and overtime you can join at tv.fm slash join to get there thank you so much and we'll talk to you next week now the show is over they didn't even mean to begin because it was accidental Oh, it was accidental John didn't do any research Marco and Casey wouldn't let him Cause it was accidental Oh, it was accidental And you can find the show notes at atp.fm And if you're into Mastodon You can follow them At C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S So that's K-C-L-E-S-M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M-T-M-C-O-R-M-A-R-C-O-R-M-E-N-T-M-O-A-R-M-E-N-T-M-C-O-R-M-E-N-N-S-I-R-A-C-U-S-A-C-R-U-S-A-C -U-S-A-C-R-U-S-A-C-U-S-A-C-O-R-U-S-A-K-U-S-A-N-T-O-S-A-C-S-O-N-T-O-N-T-O-S-A-N-T-O-S-A-C-O-N-T-O-S-O-N-T - uh yes i've been meaning to ask about this so remind me you had tagged something in the beach town is that right tagged like bump speaking of quarter panels yes exactly so while backing out of my own sandy driveway in the beach town um across the street from you know where i where i pull in and i because you know keep in mind these are like you know the the eight foot wide beach sidewalks are our streets and so maneuverability is very tight and the eight foot wide walks you know behind me on on my street is a telephone pole uh and next to that is a like kind of twisty stumpy beach tree i think it's like a cedar or juniper or something so it's all you know have you thought about just slight tangent i was thinking about the other day did i already mention on the show have you thought about that recently what you just said what what's behind when you back out what's behind you what do you mean what's behind you say it again the telephone pole and a tree right a telephone pole what the hell is a telephone pole you think there are kids born today living today who if you really ask them maybe they just refer to it as a telephone pole and you ask them what does that pole have to do with the telephone and they'd be like honestly i don't know that's just what everyone calls it they call it a telephone pole maybe it's because it's shaped like a telephone i really think the telephone pole is rapidly becoming one of those whatever neologisms or whatever that's that's the wrong term but anachronism whatever uh because i mean you know ask your kid if you're listening ask your kid point to a telephone pole say what is that when they say telephone pole ask them why is it called a telephone pole well i can tell you at least this one is i i know it's a power pole because the funny thing is i actually bought that pole as part of my house construction i had to pay to have a pole moved what i actually had to pay for a power pole it was a whole thing trust me you don't you don't want to have to do this beach living it was a very expensive poll anyway so as a few maybe a month ago i was it was as driving was starting to slow down it was it was like the second last time i drove onto the beach for the season before the big summer rush um and it was starting to get a little crowded in town and there were a bunch of people walking back and forth and a bunch of bikes going back and forth behind me and i had to pull out in the direction i normally don't pull out like i almost always go in like kind of one big loop around the block this time i had to go the other way and so i was looking back and forth like i was i was doing a lot of checking side to side as i backed out because of all the pedestrians and cyclists and for one half second i forgot to look behind me and this tree has like this like stumpy like tree protrusion off the like like a like a low like side branch of the tree was cut off so like there's like a side diagonal stump next to the telephone pole and this tree and pole that I have almost hit a hundred times I finally actually hit the tree stump do you have proximity sensors on your car do you have it turned off the proximity sensors are not enabled when the car is in off-road modes now normally this is this is generally a good thing because again these streets are eight feet wide yeah be going off the whole time you're driving yeah like you're constantly near everything around you that's the reason why I assume they turn them off during off-road modes because when you're off-roading there's always crap around you you kind of just have to be aware of it i'm dealing with this with my wife's new car was uh she's got proximity sensors for the first time and there's a button on the dashboard i said look just leave it off all the time until you're about to park and you want it because otherwise you'll be hearing beeping all the time but that's that's the time to use it backing out pulling in whatever yes and this this one time i backed up and i hit the stupid tree diagonal stump thing and I put a nice big dent in my quarter panel.

1:29:18Now, I have sent you the picture of this. I will put it as the chapter art of this chapter. I would like you to guess what it cost to repair this quarter panel. Well, I think we did this dance privately. Yeah, we already did the guessing game. And if I recall correctly, that quarter panel runs halfway up the whole damn car. You mean height-wise or length-wise? No, no, no. How big is the piece of metal that you would have to remove to this? Well, I mean, I didn't say this last time or maybe I did mention it, but when I look at this, I immediately think of YouTube paintless dent repair videos. And I say, oh, no problem.

1:29:49Paintless dent repair will take that out. No need to replace the quarter panel. I went to two different body shops just to just to see what the first one told me was surprising. And so I went to a second one and I'm like, hey, what do you think? You know, could this be could this be, you know, pop back out or, you know, suck whatever they do. I don't know. I don't know. PDR, paintless dent repair. Yeah. So I asked about that. And the guy looked around. He looked at the stuff. He looked at how it was bent and basically said, no, that's not going to do it. There was some minor damage to the bumper.

1:30:19You can see a little bit, but it's more of a scuff on the bumper. And I told him, you don't need to replace the bumper. I'm fine with that scuff. Just get the big dent out. How much is that? And I went to the body shop thinking, I don't want my insurance rates to go up from this. And so I had in my mind a price. I'm like, all right, I think if it's below$3 ,000, I'll just pay it. I'll just pay them directly and not go through insurance. I know how this is going to be a pain once insurance gets involved and raise my rates up and everything. I'm like, let me see what it's going to be. And by the way, you haven't told us and you can't tell from this picture.

1:30:57Did this dent impair any of the functionality of your tailgate and stuff? Was this purely cosmetic or was it functional where you could see how something is scraping now when I opened the back of my car? it didn't seem to affect the the tailgate or the little flappy thing on on the bottom of it so as far as i can tell there it had no functional problems as a result of this so in theory you could just drive around with this dent forever for free i could yes i did feel a decent amount of shame driving around with this dent because i'm like i'm driving around a bright yellow electric suv on long island now that yellow isn't seeming so smart now huh and and long islanders like there's a lot of um let's say political diversity on long island and so the idea of seeing somebody who dented their new electric uh suv or in long island parlance truck um would be i think uh amusing and satisfying too many people in the region in which i live on the other hand when you back up and hit that stump again you'll hit it in the same spot and you won't even notice.

1:32:02That's true. Well, but unless I push it in further. Maybe then I'll break the tailgate. We'll see. So anyway, so I had the body shop take a look at this and the first body shop says this is probably going to be something like$15 ,000. Oh, gosh. And I was floored. I'm like, you've got to be kidding me. Like, for what? And they were explaining, look, you've got to take this off, you've got to do this, you've got to do that. And the reason I picked this body shop was that they were Tesla certified and i know i know tesla runs a pretty tight ship with some of that stuff so i'm like all right if their tests so tesla will ship the cars with panel gaps as wide as a house yes but once they get repaired they need to be very very very precise oh yes um because a few years ago when my tesla was uh side swiped in the parking lot in the ferry terminal and i had that was like a six thousand dollar repair so i went to one of those shops and they were like well we they're like this is probably going to be you know xyz but i'm like but they were they said that they actually couldn't take the business because they weren't rivian certified and rivian won't even sell them the parts unless they're certified so i had to go to a second place the second place looks and they're like hmm like all right yeah we can do this we'll get back to you on the price but we think it's probably going to be even more than that oh my gosh this so and so first i'm like all right well okay insurance this is definitely going to insurance now so casey you you recently had the insurance uh bulk at spending i believe it was twenty thousand dollars roughly right but that was a pebble that was a pebble yes yes it wasn't a tree it was a pebble uh it was roughly 20 grand and the car was allegedly worth 25 ish and so they said the heck with it the car's totaled I would hope that they didn't total your car for this, given that your car is much newer and was considerably more expensive when purchased.

1:33:57They did not total the car. Thank God. I was worried about that. But the total price to get this repaired, I now have it back. It's perfect. The total price to get this repaired,$20 ,000.

1:34:12Oh, my God. Are you serious? The cost to allegedly replace your entire engine of Aaron's car is the same cost it takes to repair a quarter panel dent on a Rivian. Did you get like a parts list? Because I'm wondering, did they replace anything other than the sheet metal? They did. I'm assuming they replaced the bumper because it was going through insurance. So it's new bumper, new sheet metal. What else? Yeah. So they replaced some kind of bumper and that and like some trim, like a couple of trim pieces along the boundaries of them. But like I don't even know what most of these terms mean or are.

1:34:44But as far as I can tell, they had to take apart the entire car. Like everything was taken apart. Everything. Like, you know, because, you know, I got back into it and I'm like, oh, this they, you know, they moved all the stuff in my trunk. Of course, the whole trunk was clearly taken apart. Like they took apart like the center console at some point. Like they took apart my entire car. It seems. I don't know why. I don't know how cars are built. I don't know how body shops work. But every I mean, and they did a nice job. Like the car looks good. it looks new again but oh my god so if you now i understand like why car insurance for these new nice evs is kind of expensive um sorry for my part in making it that expensive right um oh my god well i think uh there i think rivian has that's why casey was asking about the the where the panel goes the r1t specifically i think has like one of their back panels is yeah a very large piece of metal where there's it's not just like if you look at a regular car where there's like the c pillar and then the trunk and or whatever it's kind of like these small units where it's like oh if you get a dent on this panel we can just replace that small panel but on the rivians in particular they're very especially the r1t they're pieces of metal that go farther than you would think now what a lot of body shops will do at least in these youtube rebuilding channels that i watch is anytime there is a problem on like a panel like this on a car they will cut the panel and remove the you know like a reasonable size panel and then buy a new panel and cut that and match them up and weld it and sand it and blah blah blah and insurance company is not going to do that like insurance company wants it to be like new and they're going to replace the entire panel whatever it takes and if that means taking off all the lights in the back of your car the windshield all the things that are stopping them like just to get that one gigantic panel off as a single piece and by the way you still probably have to cut it guess it's probably spot welded in various places right taking that whole thing off and then buying that one new part like what the insurance company doesn't want it is for it to be like an artisanal thing where like a craftsperson has to reassemble your car from a hodgepodge like look this is the part we remove the damaged version of that part we buy a new one of those parts remember you know we put the new one on and if the part is huge they're replacing the whole huge part or even or even if they won't sell like the individual thing like they won't sell you just like one part of the the light bar or something you have to buy the whole bar even though just one part of it's broken that's what they'll end up doing so i have to that's why i was asking what else was down i have to imagine that either it was a very large panel that required lots of disassembly and reassembly or that maybe the there's like a crash bar in there in the back of cars in the front there's various bars that are meant to bend on impact to absorb uh you know crash damage and you might have had to replace that entire bar if it got even dented a little bit because they're like oh now the crash bar has done its crash thing so we need to replace that and that thread through the whole back of your car or something but this is would have been a great opportunity to have a uh this problem's put on youtube channel the repair of your car so we could see exactly what was involved but did you get a breakdown on parts versus labor because that's the next thing i'd be interested in to see i probably did i don't have it in front of me right now but it was yeah i would love i would love for you to scan the report or receipt or whatever not for public consumption but for john and i i know he and i both would love to just tear that apart and see how they got to twenty thousand dollars yeah like what percentage of that is labor is it like 50 labor 90 labor like and what were the parts cost how much how much of that one panel did they replace how much of that panel cost was the panel you know because if you're buying like a rolls royce panel versus buying a honda civic panel right even though they both look like equal size pieces of sheet metal the prices are very different well one thing like the first body shop told me um that i don't know if i didn't verify this but they said that they think rivian sells only like that whole side of the car like you can't buy apparently just that panel you have to buy like the panel plus the two doors in front of it or whatever so like i i think that might have been part of it who knows did they read did they repaint stuff is painting on your bill oh yeah there's definitely painting because well because i they said they had they were they were going to like blend it or whatever even i mean the car's only you know six months old or a year old but it's not like how much did they repaint yeah i don't know but it i mean the car looks fantastic like it's all done now it looks great but uh yeah i i am very thankful for car insurance me too in moments like this and i am just shocked like that it what looks like a fairly simple thing twenty thousand dollars it's why it's good to know a good paintless dent repair person because at a certain point like maybe when you know this card appreciates more and you get a dent similar to this that might be close to totaling it and but you still like the car pdr is the way to go yeah i wonder if i'm gonna i got what i want to know is like i want to learn the limits of that i gotta see like you know how how much that can do they're pretty surprising as long as there's no structural damage and it's just the sheet metal is messed up they can they can do amazing things um and you can decide like even if there's like oh the crash bar got this little quarter-sized you know dimple in it do you care you probably don't the thing i always worry about with these like they don't want it to be artisanal so you're essentially not relying on like a craftsperson to beautifully make this amalgam of stuff but what you are relying on is the competence and care of the people who disassembled and then reassembled your car because kind of like apple's laptops or any other kind of device that's precisely assembled in a factory controlled environment when they disassemble it and reassemble it in the body shop they don't have as much experience as the person who's working the assembly line doing that process day after day after day right they don't have the machines they don't have the temperature control they don't have the same tools they don't have all the other parts off the car that make it real easy to put that part on right so i'm always worried with any kind of car repair that it's not going to go back together quite the way it was and it'll be a little bit loosey-goosey a little bit squeaky they didn't put one of the little things in they broke a clip they broke two clips something is inside just recently i was watching one of my youtube videos and uh this guy got a very expensive fancy porsche uh and he brought it back in there's a comedy of errors but anyway one of the things he's like oh when i roll down the window it makes this noise like it's like oh that's not good this is you know a 200 000 porsche rolling down the windows making a noise what could that possibly be so he had it in they were doing other stuff and they figured out what it was uh he had um paint protection film ppf put over his entire car because that's what you do when you get an expensive car uh and when they were doing it one of the backing pieces that's on the ppf slipped down the slot between like the window and the car and it was the backing from a piece of ppf that was scrunched up underneath the window when you'd roll it down it would scrunch it up or whatever that's i bet someone didn't do that on purpose that was just like it was probably on the roof of the car and it slid down and went in the slot it's i'm always worried about that with any kind of car repair that's why in general you don't want to hit things with your car because taking apart a car and putting it back together, it's never going to be quite the same.

1:41:49And it's really easy to forget a bolt, forget a screw, leave a little thing rattling around in there and not get it quite back together. The clips again, breaking the clips and saying, well, it's good enough or whatever. That's part of the reason why you want to get a good place that does charge you an arm and a length because you hope they're going to be more careful than the place that gave you the cheap price, but there are no guarantees. That is bananas, my goodness. But this panel is quite physically large. I mean, it is – I don't know that it's necessarily bigger than an equivalent panel.

1:42:19Like I'm trying to imagine the rear of Aaron's car. And I don't think the equivalent panel is that much smaller. But nevertheless, the$20 ,000 is just bananas. Unlike the R1T, it doesn't wrap over the roof because it's an SUV shape. I think if you look at the R1T's back panel, it goes up and around like the rear glass. You know what I mean? And his doesn't do that. so that should have at least been cheaper but yeah if they had to buy it with the doors or something yeah i would just love to see a parts list in this but anyway you just had to pay your deductible i guess and uh find out how much your rates are going to go up oh my god i'm scared because again like these are already not cheap to insure but my god it's not gonna help like you said now we know why yep can you go can you go remove that stump uh unfortunately that would be literally a federal crime because of the land that it is on.

1:43:09It's on federal land. But someone cut off the big branch that the stump is a stump of, right? Who did that? Well, the part of it that was stumping out would have been covering the village walk. And so I'm guessing the village would have had the rights to say, hey, we got to trim this tree back. But I don't have the rights to remove the tree from either the village walk or the federal land that it's resting on. All right. Well, maybe get an orange reflective cone and put it over that or i could just not back out that way anymore yeah look at your review camera turn on your proximity sensors yeah just look i mean this time i'm like it's funny like when i got the car back the other day from the body shop i mean i'm driving around running some errands around town and i'm like just being so careful every time i back out of anything like don't hit it again today like that would be so awful i think i said but i think i said on the show when uh my wife uh side swiped her car in a parking garage and we got the door replaced and repainted it was like the passenger side door.

1:44:03I think it was less than a week when she had it parked in a parking lot and the person next to her opened their car into the exact door that we had just gotten repainted and dented it badly enough that we needed to get it repainted again. Went back to the same exact body shop. I'm like, hey, remember you did this door? Once more with feeling. Well, because literally the very first thing I did after picking up the body shop, the body shop is across the street from a storage facility that we had stuff sorted during the move and i had to go get stuff out of the storage facility and so literally i drove across the street and then had to back it into the storage garage and i'm like oh my god if they actually see me dent this that would be even worse but fortunately it was uneventful you use the rear view camera then you don't have 360 camera on this thing oh of course i do yeah i used it like crazy that time yeah there weren't like cyclists and pedestrians walking behind it the whole time so i wasn't looking side to side i actually used it correctly the 360 camera doesn't show a big enough range to be able to see walkers and cyclists um i wouldn't necessarily trust it also the visibility pulling out of that driveway is very poor so i like like the angles that i can see like it's they're not great angles and so i i kind of rely on my own sight a lot as well because i don't trust only what the cameras will see um but it's it's a whole thing i've learned my lesson i won't do it again i'm kind of shocked that casey not told you you need to back in i used to back in um backing in uh there's there's like a bunch of like trees like bushes and stuff that so you're gonna hit stuff when you back in instead of when you back out right like it's no stumps like it would just be scratching the clear coat but i there there would be a lot of clear coat scratching if i did that a lot well in marco's defense having spent very little time and at the beach house but enough to have seen it during the daytime that car while it is in many ways the right choice for you in so many ways particularly the size of the car it is very much the wrong choice because it is way too large for the roads and where the quote-unquote roads in which you're driving it and if i recall correctly i think you had said it would probably be for the best if i drove you to the beach before i tried to break your car but i i looked at this and even if you hadn't offered that or you know kind of politely requested it, there's zero chance that I would have done anything in the town with this car because it is just absurd how little clearance you have.

1:46:28And John, I would love to sit here and make just immense fun of Marco for this$20 ,000 oops. But truly, the oops was when you signed on the dotted line for the Rivian in the first place because it is just so big for that specific area of the country. It was kind of fun though. In New York, you have to file the form with the Motor Vehicles department whenever there was an accident uh over a certain dollar amount of damage and you have to like describe what happened yeah and my favorite part was you have to draw a diagram or illustration of the accident are you serious and and they don't tell you like you know what level of detail so i'm i drew like trees like fluffy like i drew like the beach like i drew a whole little diagram in that in that box and i'm like this is gonna make someone's day i hope like someone you know reading this form filing it somewhere like i hope this makes somebody smile it made me smile to draw you'll be able to find it on the web somewhere as i'm sure it's enshrined digital form somewhere like car stump path arrow stump gracious well i'm glad it's back how long was it gone that like how long was the repair um like three weeks it was a while i mean it makes sense they tore apart half the car yeah okay and now and i'm so worried now about what john said about it like not being quite right like i noticed like the the trunk uh lid and like whatever the bottom thing in the trunk is that flops down it like it's a little bit tighter when it closes like it doesn't lift up as easily as it used to and i'm like uh-oh something's different hey if you got away without it something rattling inside your doors or side panels that aren't doors uh consider yourself uh declare victory