656: A Long T-Shirt

33:20All right, moving on. Apple Watch. We got the compulsory sappy video, which was great, as always, where we talked about how it saved our lives and so on and so forth. And I don't mean to minimize that. I mean, it really is impressive technology, especially if it is something that could literally save your life. But we're not here to talk about that. We're here to talk about Series 11, which apparently has the S10 processor, which is breaking news. They did not have a new system-owned package, system-owned chip, whatever you want to call it for this year as far as we are aware they didn't announce it there's a mac rumor story saying that they all have the s10 they did mention that the se3 has the s10 and we're like oh that makes sense for the se but it seems like again we're mere hours after the presentation that they gave up on the the farce of changing the number on what is essentially the same chip and they're just saying yes it's got the s10 again yeah which by the way is just about the same as the s9 as far as everyone could tell yeah yeah so well maybe we'll have more in next week but there's that yeah the the series 11 watch it's not a significant upgrade in most ways like you have to i had to like pour through the the compare pages and look up documents and see like what are the differences there's not many the biggest one for most people is going to be the battery life which is significant like they they've raised it from an estimated 18 hours to an estimated 24 hours um so you know not only is that you know good on day one but also one of the things that eventually kills the usefulness of Apple Watches for people after a few years is when the battery life has degraded over time such that it can't really make it through their day very easily.

34:49That's often what ends up requiring service or replacement of an Apple Watch. So to have really good battery life to start with on day one, not only has the benefit of it's great from day one, but also you can probably keep it for longer. And as we're seeing, these Apple Watch upgrades are not very big most of the time. You know, the Series 10 and the Series 9 are about the same as the Series 11. There's a very minor difference between those three. The series before those, 6, 7, and 8. Also, very few differences between those three models. So we're kind of on a three-year cycle with the Apple Watch really making significant jumps.

35:30So for the battery to start out better is important and is meaningful. And that could make the difference. Maybe some people who were possibly buying the Ultra just to get the longest battery life, maybe now they'd be fine with a Series 11. So again, all good changes around the battery. Otherwise, the main differences seem to be that the Series 11 has 5G for its cell modem and it has a more scratch-resistant crystal on the aluminum models. And that's, I think, it is there anything else that's that's exclusive to the series 11 so there's the high blood pressure thing which is not exclusive to the new thing but it is a new watch feature i mean that's like i said that's the thing about these health features is that they usually don't the ones they've built lately have not required lots of new sensors so they take the existing sensors they have and say what else can we get from them and now it's uh some sort of synthesis of high blood pressure and notifications about that uh the interesting thing about the other one you mentioned the scratch resistance this will be a trend for this whole presentation and i think it's a welcome trend in that uh advances in technology uh you know in like basics of the the devices they make this year seem to be shared across all the products and one of the big ones that you'll see in essentially every single product they announce that has a piece of glass is this new two times more scratch resistant coating which they talk about multiple times in multiple ways and as far as i can tell it's all the same thing it's like a new ceramic coating from their glass vendor that is more scratch resistant than before but they didn't just put that on the proiest of pro models just everything with glass gets it which is refreshing yeah that is really nice i like where they're going with the health stuff like you know the hype the hypertension uh alerts that's good i do wonder what's keeping them from going a little bit further with that because there's other like um i know uh whoop the whoop band that's a competing wearable they have nightly blood pressure readings they do it every night and you can look in the morning and you can see what was my blood pressure you know yesterday or overnight so we know the technology exists in similar wearables to do that um i don't know why apple's not doing that yet i'm sure that i'm sure they have their reasons but you know i look around too like okay as i was just saying the Apple Watch barely changes like every three years.

37:51You look around the wearables market today. You have stuff like Fitbits at the kind of lower end. You have things like Whoop at the medium to high end. You have the Aura Ring, the rings. You have all these different things that are expanding the wearables market by serving roles or physical manifestations or other features that the Apple Watch doesn't serve. And I don't see Apple really caring to push into those markets ever. The new Apple Watch SE is just, it's nice, we'll talk about it in a minute, but it's still basically an Apple Watch. And there's all these other markets of wearables that are doing similar kind of activity tracking and things like that.

38:34If Apple brought some of their tech to, they could do a great job with a cuff a ring uh you know something else they could do a wonderful job with that kind of thing um and they just don't seem like they want to serve those markets um which is fine i mean i think they're approaching it from all sides though like don't you think they're approaching it from like the watch side the phone side the airpod side the glasses side from the the six year timeline or whatever we read last time like you're right that they're not diving into those other markets but i think they see on their roadmap that like we are going to we have them surrounded like we've got things in your ears soon we'll have things on your eyes we've got your phone in your pocket we've got your watch on your wrist yeah if we came out with the whoop thing that you could put like anywhere on your body we could do something now but we'll get there eventually so i give them some leeway because i think their strategy is sound in terms of like let's do form factors i mean setting the glasses aside we'll see how that goes let's do form factors that we know are popular on their own merits and essentially we establish like base camp on people's bodies where we can just start adding sensors.

39:34Like as soon as they can conceivably put not just the IR sensors as is rumored, but like cameras and stuff on your AirPods or cameras in your glasses. And so like, I think they'll get there eventually. The main complaint I hear people about the Apple Watch is that like the Apple Watch itself in the realm of watches is not really pushing the envelope too much, but they are making it better year to year. Even those three year runs that you said where they're not really that different. There's tiny improvements such that if you could, if you had the choice between the first or the third, you should always take the third because like the screen's a little bit brighter or it's a little bit bigger or the battery life's a little bit better even if they all had fresh batteries right so i i think the series 11 you know it's just it's just a spec bump year uh and that's fine some new watch bands with uh reflective threads in them or whatever not a big deal but if you were getting a watch right now and you had a choice between the series 10 and series 11 for the same price i would definitely recommend the 11 oh yeah i mean the battery life alone would be would be worth that that you know that threshold what was the old battery life by the They claim 18 versus 24 hours.

40:33Yeah. So that's a significant difference. And I do wonder if they got like, considering the S10 is the same, is it just like the screen takes less power? Like maybe it's a little bit better screen or maybe they're being smarter about doing the sensing stuff, which is also maybe why the blood pressure thing is just alerts and not like measuring it more. Well, the phrase they used in the presentation was they, quote, re-engineered the battery. Yeah. Now, maybe this, you know, this, they also changed out the cell modem. So I wonder if, you know, going to a 5G modem. They didn't brag about the battery chemistry.

41:01No, but they mentioned with the modem, the cell modem, that 5G is more efficient than LD, which it can be. I'm guessing that they kind of got more space in the case by some shuffling up of the cell modem, maybe. But I don't know. Maybe they're using different battery chemistry. Who knows? But somehow they got a significant bump in battery life that seems like it's not just software tweaks. It is some kind of hardware change. oh they also added an illegible new watch face to celebrate liquid glass finally something that is appropriate for a liquid glass yeah it should be watch face that you can't read i laughed out loud when i saw that in the video i'm like of course that's perfect like you can't read the time great if you haven't seen the video they make the time out of like liquid blobs but the shapes of the letters are kind of abstract made out of like sort of triangles and semicircles and blobs and stuff so it actually is kind of difficult say is that a one or a seven or a nine perfect chef's kiss they should scroll random photos behind it that way you really can't see exactly right that's what they should have the front of the thing instead of a quote that really shows what liquid glass is all right so it's coming in black silver rose gold and a beautiful new space gray because it wouldn't be a new apple product if you didn't have a weird new space gray uh titanium will be available in natural gold and slate uh the nike sport bands now have reflective threads on them.

42:22All in all, this looks good to me. I don't think that there's anything earth-shattering, and I would have been more keen on it had they not done what I am glad they did, which is backport a lot of these new health features, including sleep score, including high blood pressure or hypertension notifications. I'm very happy that that's coming back a fair bit, and some of these are coming back like several years in terms of models that are compatible. But Series 11, it looks good. Like I think it was John just said, if you're looking to get one, the new battery life will be great. But as someone who has a Series 10, this certainly doesn't seem like a necessary upgrade for me.

42:57And I would argue, depending on how old your watch is and how good your battery is at this particular moment in time, it's probably a pass for most people that already have an Apple Watch. Yeah, if you've got a Series 10, you can set it up. Yeah, I would say if you have an 8 or older, go for it. If you have a 9 or a 10, you're not going to notice much. All right, Apple Watch SE 3. This is a lot of the same. It's basically bringing it up to be more pure to the other watches. It now has an always-on display. It's getting the 5G cell. It's getting gestures, so the double tap, the wrist flick, all that stuff.

43:31Sleep apnea and sleep score, 18-hour battery life, and fast charging, which is apparently two times faster than the previous SE. Available only in starlight and midnight, and that's pretty cool. yeah i think this is this is good for when you need a cheaper apple watch for some reason you know if you're getting it for somebody who like really doesn't care like a kid you know like about some of the more advanced features fine um if you are a nerd listening to our show and you are buying this for yourself just get the series 11 like if you have to save up longer to you know budget for it it's worth it um but if you are really looking for a very basic apple watch go for it this is this is fine and this se won't be changed probably for a few more years so if you do want to get an se like this would be the year to get it because next year it's probably not going to be not going to be changed and the year after that it probably won't be changed like the se is not on an every year update cycle so be aware of that so this is as good as the se is ever going to be compared to the rest of the line probably oh and during this segment by the way they did say uh one point the presenter said not only did we update the se and series this year they didn't say the se we updated se and series anyway if weird to hear them refer to the non se non ultra watch line as series not only did we update se and series you updated series like if they don't have a good way to refer to that what the the regular apple watch is how we refer to it but anyway the apple did this themselves with their name yeah they would never referred to that.

45:03I do love whenever we get little glimpses of Apple's internal lingo that does not make a ton of sense to the outside world. Like blow away being used as an adjective. What are we going to do about series this year? They say that in meetings and it makes sense to them, but they say it in the outside world and it sounds weird. Very much so. Alright, so Apple Watch Ultra 3. This is what I thought I was going to buy last year because we all knew it was definitely coming out last year, right? But anyways, Apple Watch Ultra 3. this has a fancy new screen a wide angle oled and they mentioned ltpo3 which is an acronym i've heard before but i couldn't remember what the heck it meant john can you give me a two second tour of what that means i had to look it up because these i know it's low temperature something earlier but it's low temperature polycrystalline oxide which is a combination of ltps and igzo anyway we'll link in the show notes so you want to read about it but it's a better screen and interesting thing about this is it is actually a different resolution than the old ultra so they made the screen a little bit bigger getting closer to the edges and that little bit bigger adds pixels not a lot of pixels like but the resolution is different so if you're watch dev be aware that you are seeing more information on the screen and i think i have a question mark on this because i haven't gone back and reviewed i think they said it's like 3d printed titanium yeah on the bento box it says 3d printed case no yeah so i think that some doing some interesting a lot of their interesting manufacturing things they do like on the watch it's it's like a small scale way to mess with it uh it i think they were touting it as being more recycled but anyway by um it looks the same as it did before it's made of titanium the screen is a little bit bigger it's got the satellite connectivity that was rumored where you can although i meant to look this up as well so they said like satellite connectivity obviously for the sos thing that's included for free and i'm not sure if it's free forever for three years they said emergency sos free for two years which again so do we know yet because now it's been more than two years since they keep kicking the can down every time it comes it comes due they kick the can down the road and say oh it's still free so i don't know but didn't satellite launch with the iphone 14 yeah they just today i don't think i can put my hands on the news article i saw but today i read that they have kicked the can on the 14 another year oh actually uh jason in the chat was kind enough to put it put the link in there for us we'll put in the show notes so thank you mr snell and then they said uh so there's that but there's also the satellite thing where you can do more than just sos where you can send like messages and stuff and that's the the feature that most people care about for this is like, hey, what if I'm out of cell range and I'm not dying, but I just want to text somebody?

47:29Can I do that? And that is apparently available if you have an active cellular plan. Yes. I think that's what the slide said, which is weird because cellular is not related to satellite. I guess the hardware you need to communicate is fine, but the cell towers that you were talking to are not in space. I wonder if somehow the carriers pay for that. I'm not sure how that works. Maybe it's, yeah, maybe it's, I don't, I don't understand. But anyway, that's what they change for the why would you want the ultra 3 instead of the ultra 2 better screen slightly bigger screen satellite connectivity the 3d printed titanium i don't think you'll notice oh and 42 hours of battery life which is supposedly up from what it used to be but anyway it's a better ultra yeah you know the ultra really has not changed a ton since it was introduced but you know similar to the series watches um it changes in these little tiny incremental ways when it does change and and those are welcome even though it's not like you know a massive thing in most ways.

48:23I think in this case, the big story is that satellite communication. That is the big story for the Ultra 3. Not something that everybody will need, but something that could come in handy if you do. So that's great. I do kind of like the Ultra, it launched with a big splash, big success. You saw them everywhere. I see a lot less of them these days. I wonder did the fad of people who are not like Ultra people, just wearing them because they look cool, did that fad die? in smartwatch land like because for a while like you saw that that first year you saw everybody wearing apple watch ultras now you know it seems like maybe it's more people who are actually on the mountains uh i i think there's some truth to that but i can tell you amongst my peers my local friend group a handful of them two or three of them got ultras sometime last year and they did that i think for a couple of reasons number one they had gotten maybe an ultra one or at this point like they had found a deal on the ultra two or something like that But I think all three of them, if I recall correctly, did this almost exclusively because of battery life.

49:28And I don't think any of them were in a position that they couldn't make it through a day with a series watch, but it was always on the edge. And that's how it is for me. Like, I can make it through a day, but I'm on the edge at the end of pretty much every single day. and I think they just wanted to not freaking care about battery life anymore. And certainly when the ultra is new, you don't have to care about battery life or certainly not in the same way. And I mean, they're saying the ultra three is 42 hours of battery life. I mean, that's bananas. It's almost double what the series watches offer.

49:59So I don't think that, or I should say, I think you're right that the fad portion of it did die down, but I wouldn't say that it's exclusively like ultra marathoners that are using them now. I'm seeing them on regular people's wrists just because they want a better battery. Yeah, fair. I would also, I would suggest that, you know, this is maybe a hot take. I think the ultras have some of the best straps. Now I, you know, I just cheat and, you know, sometimes just use an ultra strap on my series 10. You know, I mentioned last time I use the titanium Milanese most of the time this summer and it's great.

50:35I love it. but certainly like it doesn't look exactly like a match on the series 11 or series 10 it looks a lot better on an actual ultra but uh i do i do like the ultra bands they're really cool we are sponsored this episode by delete me delete me makes it easy quick and safe to remove your personal data from hundreds of data brokers online at a time when surveillance and data breaches are common enough to make everyone vulnerable here's the thing there's this gross business out there of data brokers. And what they do is anywhere they can get it, they hoover up your personal information and then they sell it to people.

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52:38All right, then 30 minutes in, I think pretty much on the nose, we get to the iPhone and we are told by Tim there are four new models to meet the unique needs of our users. And we were largely emceed with this from Kai Andrantz, who we usually get to see for this. uh we start with the iphone 17 available and i don't have the list in front of me and shoot i took terrible notes i didn't have a chance to go back but lavender which is kind of a pinkish purple sage which is green mist blue white and black oh if you if you've seen any you know non-pro iphone colors in the last three or so years you will be utterly unsurprised by how these look like it's like yep uh blackish whitish light purple light green light blue okay and they're pretty good Like the 16 colors are pretty good.

53:27Like the, they're not, they're not as like saturated this year, but you won't be confused. Is this the green one? You can tell it's green. Same thing with all the other colors, right? And the white and the black are just straight up white and black. Remember those years where they kept doing a white, that was like dishwater white. They would never just make it white. Starlight and midnight. Yeah. But even before that, sometimes they would have a white one that was like, is this really white or is it kind of like silvery white? And just, you know, so anyway, they're even just called white and black.

53:53So you have mist blue, but then the white and black are just white and black. But anyway, these, I think we'll get to the ProColor, the ProColor singular in a little bit. But I think that the 17 continues to have the best colors in the lineup, which is a low bar, admittedly. Oh, I definitely disagree with that. Well, there's the most variety. You're more likely to find something that you like in the 17 because you have lots of different choices. I think you're more likely to look at the 17 lineup and find something that you think is fine. yeah oh because it has it has the most fun color it's got three two boring colors white and black but still people like white and black and they're pure white and black and then it's got blue green and purplish pink it's pretty good they're fine i do think it's very interesting that um when introducing the iphone 17 the very first was it was it cayenne trans who introduced it yep the very first thing cayenne talked about were the colors like that was there's nothing about the specs or anything else for the very first thing is here's the colors and i think that shows this is what people care about which is true like you know when you're introducing the iphone 10 000 like we've already seen what iphones are for so long and so one of the very first thing we want to know is what does it look like and here's some cool colors like that i know it kind of it probably drives certain nerd types like us like a little bit nuts that you know like what it doesn't matter it's just the color it's you know talk about the specs but like no that's what people care about.

55:17That's what I care about. What are the colors? I've had iPhones before. Now, instead of my fine colors from last generation, now I can have my fine colors from this generation. It's funny. This reminds me, when we bought Aaron's car a little over a year ago, when we were first engaging with the salesperson, and I think this was true of multiple different dealerships and multiple different salespeople, they immediately wanted to know what exterior color we needed. And when I said, eh, we really don't care, we were actually more particular about the interior color and they were like wait what usually that's the only thing anyone cares about is what the exterior color is and i think that that's kind of the same here so i'm right there with you yeah it matt and the funny thing the i think the funniest thing about this with the iphone is that almost everyone puts cases on their phones and so it almost doesn't matter what the color of the phone is for most people but you still care you see it in the ads you see it in the stores you still like oh i want the purple one or whatever like you still care about that and the funny thing is like we'll get to in a second there's actually some huge upgrades in the iphone 17 like massive new like awesomeness that it has that the 16 did not uh but that was all secondary to here's the new colors but it looks it looks just like the 16 like you know we'll get to the measurements in a second but like you'd be forgiven for thinking oh so they didn't actually change anything about it the external case no they did but it's in ways that you would never notice.

56:39Yeah, exactly. To that end, we've got an additional two millimeters in height against the iPhone 16. We lost 0.1 millimeters width, and we gained 0.15 millimeters in thickness. Just enough to make sure that the cases don't fit from the 16. God, that's true. I didn't even think about that. I mean, that's not why they did it, but like it looks just like the 16, but it's not just like the 16. So it's a little bit different. The screen is actually a little bit bigger. I don't think I realized that. Did they mentioned that and i totally blank they did mention it and that so those things the things that you just read particularly two millimeters of height right like there's it is a different size screen probably with different margins around it or whatever it's 6.3 versus 6.1 in the 16 yeah and the biggest news to me for this phone always on and promotion it finally happened is a spoiler alert since we're talking about the the least of the phones that was announced the plane 17 the plane 17 gets promotion and always on display and all the other ones do too so if you're wondering when is apple going to stop this bifurcation in their line where they give promotion to only the most expensive phones when will they just put it on all their phones this is the year yeah i i did not have that on my bingo card i really did not expect this this is great um yeah 3000 nit peak outdoor brightness obviously that depends a lot on heat as we know from using phones in the sun but uh that's really good um the same ceramic shield as we were talking about with the apple watch like the same new super strong glass um only on the front glass on this one um they talked about it in the future phones it's on both sides but here it's only in the front glass um pretty like that's an that's an amazing screen upgrade for the non-pro phone to finally get always on in promotion that's huge 3 000 nits peak brightness outdoor which is i i think even more than the old pro thing like when we talked about the prediction episode uh last step last episode we took predictions about this event we said yeah um the 17 will get promotion maybe always on screen and it did get that so it's the best case scenario um and the the brightness like it's they didn't talk about any heat dissipation stuff or whatever but like this really seems like essentially as good or better screen i was on as was on the 16 pro which you would think would happen every year like oh well you have a year and there's a pro thing and the next year the pro features trickle down but apple had been stopping that from happening for so long now on that front one of the things that we did talk about is still not yet confirmed how much ram does this thing have we don't know um seems like like after we recorded uh last week's episode the rumors kind of switched volume and people said actually the the 17 won't be 12 it'll just be eight um and i don't i don't know what the the uh the 17 has but it seems like the rumors are leaning more heavily towards it having eight instead of 12, which fine, whatever.

59:26That's my one disappointment in the potential specs. Again, we don't have confirmation from Apple because they don't like to talk about that, but if it has eight gigs, oh well. You know, this looks real good. And we're also starting to learn more about ceramic shield too, which they said has three times better scratch resistance. Music to my ears, gentlemen. I believe you can defeat it. And also, I'm sure I can. We talked about this last week too, it was kind of a vague, like, I don't know, maybe seven layer anti-reflective coding they didn't mention this for the watch so i think the watch doesn't have it but every phone has this and this presentation was weird in that they would talk about a feature with the introduction of a product and then casually mention a similar feature with future products you're like wait is that the same one that you spent seven sentences on earlier or is it a different lesser one but as far as i've been able to determine this anti-reflective coding that we mentioned as a possibility in the last episode is on all the phones.

1:00:19And I don't know what it's going to look like or people will even notice, but this, you know, again, this year they're doing it, everything, everything. Everybody has ceramic shield too, at least on the front glass. Everybody has the anti-reflective thing. Everyone has always on display. Everyone has promotion. It's a good year for sharing of technology. Which I am so here for. One of the things that I particularly whined about incessantly in years past was particularly when the camera systems were quite a bit better on the big phones and not as good on the regular size phones. And I am really, really happy when Apple does exactly what they're doing here, what you said.

1:00:51They're sharing the same tech, or as far as we can tell, it's the same tech across all of these different devices. And yes, there's differences here and there, but broadly speaking, a lot of the same tech is going across every device, which I'm really excited about. They specifically said the Ceramic Shield 2 has hardness to protect from everyday scratches, which, again, sign me up. Yeah, we'll see. You got to tell us about your phone side. So when you get this one, Casey, you're the true test because you were a scratch in the hell. You should not put a... I've had this debate with myself. Should I put a screen protector on or not?

1:01:19Not put a screen protector on it and see. Because how else can you tell? I don't know if I'm willing to make that trade, but we'll see. This gets the A19, which is a three nanometer process, a 16 core neural engine, six core GPU, two performance, four efficiency, five core GPU, and there are now neural accelerators in each GPU core. Now, what's interesting about the A19, too, like this... So I was doing some research earlier on Mastodon and going through spec sheets. We have three phones or three phone families that all have A19-based things. The 17 has the A19. 17 Air, or the Air rather, there's no 17.

1:01:56Just the Air has the A19 Pro and the iPhone 17 Pro also has the A19 Pro. But the two A19 Pros on the next two phones are not the same. and the a19 in the regular phone and the a19 pro and the iphone air are very similar to each other so it's actually it took a lot of digging to try to figure out what is the difference between these three processors at all like that like the iphone air's version of the pro processor doesn't seem like the pro and so as far as i can tell all three phones have the same number of processor cores They have the same neural engine, it seems, and the same GPU cores, but the two bottom phones have five GPU cores and the Pro phones have six GPU cores.

1:02:48But the middle one's still called Pro. And so what that seems to be is they mentioned it later in the introduction of the A19 Pro. They mentioned they'd increased the L3 cache that lets the A19 Pro perform a lot better and more efficiently than the A19. that seems to be present in the version of it's in the air. So that's what the A19 Pro seems to mean is it has an additional cache for the processor cores. Nothing else appears to be different between the iPhone Air's version and the iPhone 17's version of this chip. This is the problem of Apple not giving tech specs because, like I said, with them saying features in different parts of the presentation and wondering if that's meaningful.

1:03:29When they talked about the A19 Pro, they said a bunch of stuff about the CPU cores. They didn't say about it when they introduced the A19. does that mean the a19 doesn't have them or do they just not say it we don't know but like things like the i forget what it is when we get down to that section i have notes on it i'll read them but like it's unclear from the presentation whether like marco said whether these are all basically the same thing with just they're just binned and clocked differently or whatever or whether there really is like a difference in the cpu course like once they so we get like die shots of these or people start testing them we'll find out but still like from what we can tell from the presentation this is a year where the difference between the pro and non-pro phones isn't particularly large and so then again it's a good year for the non-pro phones exactly yeah like if you're if you're in the market for the regular 17 and you don't get the pro phones this seems like a good year to buy because they they did take a big leap and it puts them closer to the pros than they usually are and as for the a19 family there's something else uh that they didn't mention in the presentation i don't know why but i guess it's too nerdy uh there's a paper we'll link to on the security.apple.com website called memory integrity enforcement a complete vision for memory safety and apple devices uh and in that paper it says in mie which is how they abbreviate memory integrity enforcement every memory allocation is tagged with a secret the hardware guarantees that later requests to access memory are granted only if the request contains the correct secret if the secrets don't match the app crashes and the event is logged this allows developers to identify memory corruption bugs immediately as they occur.

1:05:01MIE is built right into Apple hardware and software in all models of iPhone 17 and iPhone air and offers unparalleled always on memory safety protection for our key attack services including the kernel while maintaining the power and performance that users expect. In addition we're making EMTE which is the underlying technology this is based on that's uh created by ARM available to all Apple developers and Xcode as part of a new enhanced security feature that we released earlier this year during WWDC. This is actually kind of a big deal like they're always cranking the dial on features in step with their silicon so for example wwc we mentioned like the uh per cycle tracing of what's happening in your program but that's only on m4 socs or later like it's tied to the silicon because there's special support for it this is similar where they've been working on this you can read the paper they've been working on this for five years now working with arm to figure out how can we make memory access safer and more secure uh and like arm came up with this tagging thing and puts like a cryptographic secret stuff, but Apple said it's not good enough because we can see ways around it.

1:05:59And so they work with them. And anyway, this is only on a 19 stuff. I would imagine that it's also only going to be on M5 or maybe even M6. Uh, but it just shows how Apple is Apple's Silicon and software and operating system stacks are all of a unit and they will embark on five year long projects like this to make their stuff even more hardened. So I guess the software that's running your Apple Studio Display 2 in the future will be super secure because it has memory integrity enforcement. And I would assume every A-series chip from this point forward will, and I'm assuming eventually every M-series chip will.

1:06:34It's kind of cool. We'll probably talk more about it in a future episode if I read the paper and find more stuff. Yeah, I was actually planning to talk to you privately about how this would maybe be an overtime where we unpack this a little bit more aggressively. I haven't had time to read it yet today. Yeah, exactly, same. But I will say that a lot of the Apple nerds that I follow, engineers that work at Apple, a lot of them were very happy to announce this on Mastodon today. So this, I suspect, is a very big deal. Like John said, I just also haven't had the chance to dig into it yet. Oh, yeah.

1:07:07From a nerdy security perspective, it's a very big deal. And it just reinforces. We don't talk about this too often because it doesn't usually come up for us, fortunately. But if I was doing really sensitive work that I had to be really confident that I wasn't going to be hacked or something, I would do it on an iPhone. Because the iPhone security is top-notch in the industry. And they're always finding new ways to make it better. So this kind of thing, this is really important to somebody. And it might not be us or you today. But overall, this dramatically improves the security of the platform.

1:07:42So this is great news. All right, moving back to the hardware, the battery gets eight more hours of video playback compared to the iPhone 16. I don't know what I would recommend as a metric for battery life, but I kind of hate this as a metric because I will never sit there and watch video on my iPhone for eight straight hours. It's just not a thing. on the one hand like you're right it is a bad metric because we all know that if you're watching video it's just one tiny corner of the chip that has like the h265 encoder or decoder on it is doing all the work and that's not representative of anything but on the other hand places where people really care about battery life i see people watching movies on their phone on the plane all the time and that's where you care about those hours can i get through the movie i use my phone in the airport i'm going to use it when i get off the plane do i also have enough battery life to watch the movie yeah it's just exercising that one tiny corner of the chip but it still is impressive for a phone with essentially a very similar size battery to its predecessor to get eight more hours out of that's got to be the a19 essentially having a more efficient video decode hardware on it which is not again not representative general battery life but is impressive for a one-year change so i can see why they're bragging about it uh you can get half of your charge in 20 minutes If you're using a wire, there's apparently 10 minutes of charge.

1:09:01We'll give you eight hours of video playback. So there's some fast charging here. And I don't know if we're going to have a chance to talk about it, but apparently they came out with a new USB-C charger, a slim USB-C charger that flexes between 40 and 60 watts, depending on how hot the charger is. I haven't had much time to look into that personally. And so we probably won't talk about it today, but we'll get to it at some point. I think you literally just covered the entire story. Oh, OK. Good deal. There we go. What does the charger look like? I haven't even seen it, is it? It looks just like their dual 36-watt charger that comes with the Airs, or that can come with the Airs, the MacBook Air.

1:09:32Yeah, that thing. Okay. Exactly right. Anyways, the cameras, we are getting a 48-megapixel main camera, which I really don't like how they're handling this. I get it, but I don't like it. So they said they're really leaning into this whole multi-lens thing where there's one physical camera that's 48-megapixels, but they're saying, well, it's basically the same as an optical quality telephoto lens 2X because they're just going to crop it. And I'm not saying that's inaccurate, but they keep saying as though they're like seven physical lenses on these cameras. And that's just, that isn't accurate.

1:10:09Now, yes, you can basically squint and see how they got there. And I don't think that they're lying or misleading. I just don't personally care for the way they classify this. It used to be fine for marketing, but then there was always like a tech spec section that broke it down better and they they took away the tech spec sections from the website you can still get this info if you dig for it but it's much harder to find than it used to be but anyway as far as i can tell this 48 megapixel main is essentially the same as the old main camera on like the pros as far as i can tell it's unchanged from the iphone 16 pros one one x camera yeah and we don't know that for a fact because they're so vague like remember a couple years they've said oh it seems like it's unchanged but it turns out it actually was a new sensor and they just didn't mention it but spec wise it looks very similar to the old 1x camera so the 1x camera doesn't seem like where the action is happening certainly not on the 17th yeah and and to be clear they don't change the 1x camera every year like they there there have been years where it has literally been unchanged from the previous year that happens more frequently with the wide and the telephoto cameras but it does occasionally happen to the 1x camera but you know this this seems like it's one of those years but you know the 1x camera also is already really good and needed the least improvement of all three of them so that's you know i i consider it unfortunate whenever there's a new phone revision that doesn't touch the main camera but it's not a deal breaker because the main camera is already really good and they always touch the software anyway so your pictures will look a little bit different when you upgrade us um the ultra wide on the 17 is where things change it gets a 48 megapixel ultra wide and that's replacing a 12 megapixel ultra wide on the 16 so big bump for the ultra wide and that's the only other camera on this phone so you've got the one x and now you've got a 48 megapixel ultra wide which is pretty good and it has i well you brought this in your casey do you know how they're doing this you said fake lenses 12 megapixel 1x macro what does that which which one of these two cameras does that i don't know so historically the macro is the wide it's the the 0.5 ultra wide yeah that makes sense to me especially since you if it's if the ultra wide is actually 48 megapixel maybe you can get 12 megapixel macro out of the way we know it's the ultra wide is that the iphone's the iphone air has the same one x camera and does not support macro process of elimination yep so therefore it's the point five but anyway that's not where the action is happening speaking of things that are that are improved on every single iphone this year and they introduced it with the plain old 17 the bottom of the line phone turn that camera turn that phone around and the front facing camera has finally been significantly upgraded they've improved it a little bit over the years but it has always lagged far behind so now they really bragged about this 18 megapixel center stage front camera with a square sensor and they use that square sensor to allow you not not to have to rotate your phone to get like a landscape orientation selfie because it just basically does sensor crop um and this is a big change it's a better camera it's a more versatile camera for old people like me who have trouble holding the camera at various angles for doing selfies you don't you can just leave the camera in whatever orientation you're comfortable holding it and if two more people come into the selfie shot you can just tap on the screen and it will crop differently and put them in and center stage it will track where people are and try to get everybody in the picture this is a big upgrade for the selfie camera maybe not compared to the android world where they tend to have fancier cameras on the front but on the iphone i've always felt like they've sort of not taken the front camera seriously enough even though there was a past year where they're like now we're taking the front camera seriously we know how much you use it they took it more seriously but then they let it languish for a while so here's another big upgrade every single phone has this new front facing 18 megapixel center stage camera and it is a big upgrade of over what it used to be yeah that's a huge deal i mean the only thing i'm a little um concerned about is that when they use the term center stage on the laptop cameras on the and the the mac cameras what you get is a you know a big wide angle optical camera that they crop pretty aggressively to quote keep yourself centered um and you see this i believe the ipads also now have this like and what we've seen so far when they've done this with these cameras is the cropping of the large sensor creates very very crappy pictures because it's relying a lot on cropping to you know to to achieve its you know its optical breadth of range.

1:14:29This might be better in the phones. Historically, the phone cameras, the phone's front cameras usually are better than the front cameras in Macs and iPads. So it's probably going to be better. How much better? We don't know. So this is the kind of thing that I think pay attention to reviews and sample photos of the new front cameras. This remains to be seen. it could be really good but so far apple has never delivered a quote center stage front camera that was good so we'll see yeah they did say this is wider angle than the previous one so it goes wider but i'm not sure it goes as wide as center stage like center stage goes so wide that you can like get your fingers on the keyboard with like the desk view thing so i think this is probably wider than it used to be but not that much wider and it should have enough megapixels to make up for it but hope so we shall see the other thing that they're doing which also was mentioned i forget where it was mentioned because i copied it in the notes everywhere whatever phone they mentioned this feature on it's on all the phones dual capture video where you can record front and back camera simultaneously according to apple's website every single one of the new phones announced has that feature uh including the plain old 17 so you can try to get your own reaction while you're filming your kid play basketball like they showed in the video and that's cool yep i dig that i'm excited about this front camera i i am a devout day one user um we've talked about this in the and I try to record something every day.

1:15:54And I usually try to take at least one picture every day. And a lot of the times, if we're going out to like dinner with friends or something like that, I'll just take a picture with a selfie camera. And I am very bad at it because I'm an old and it is not particularly good quality. I mean, if I was really trying to get these as heirloom quality pictures, they're terrible, especially in low light situations. They're freaking awful. But the point is just to help me remember and little else. And so anyways, I am really excited for this. I agree with you, Marco, that they haven't ever really delivered on this in a really big way, but they're saying all the right things.

1:16:27And I really like what they're doing with the square sensor. So you can, you know, do landscape or portrait all within that without moving the phone. And it is far easier to hold the phone physically in portrait if they can, you know, kind of fake their way into a landscape photo. I am really surprisingly excited about this. I think this is going to be great. Then iPhone Air. It is the iphone air that is a thing it is official no 17 yeah what are they gonna do next year is it the iphone 18 air is it the iphone air 18 is it iphone air the new iphone air i'm guessing it's just the new iphone air or but well i mean they could say the iphone air 2 who knows or is it uh the iphone air was a mistake we're never making one like this again we'll get to it but we'll see how it sells like that's yeah they've tried a lot of things you know it's just interesting that they didn't put the 17 in there or a 26.

1:17:15Yeah. I mean, either way, this is something that simultaneously really excites me. And I also feel like isn't for me. I think I'm there myself. Yeah. I think this is, this looks incredible. I'm sure it will feel phenomenal in hand. I am super duper excited about it. I also really love the marketing, like hero image that they're using with like a very, very tall, very thin a, and then the phone itself is the eye and a very tall, very thin R. I'm really into that. I think it's great. But this is, as expected, it is extremely thin and it sits kind of between, from what I can tell, the 17 and 17 Pro in both like kind of where it is in the lineup and also physically in terms of screen real estate.

1:17:57But what do we got? We've got a polished titanium frame with a mirror finish, ceramic shield on both sides, which they claim is their most durable design yet again we shall see and challenge accepted but uh they also really leaned into something john would you like to talk about what they leaned into they talked about their iconic plateau i'm not sure it's iconic if this is the first camera to have our first phone to have that kind of plateau but anyway yes they're using plateau which makes sense geologically speaking because we used to call the thing the camera mesa and a mesa is just like a smaller version of a plateau so now that it spans the whole width of the phone it has gone from mesa to plateau so i accept their nomenclature but it is interesting to hear them saying that uh i think they had used to say like camera bump occasionally but now they're not only are they calling it the plateau now it's iconic so okay all right i'm not how sure how iconic it is considering it looks exactly like the google pixel camera yeah so or plateau that's been there for years but whatever um i do like the polished edges we've had phones with polished edges before they they gather fingerprints and they're not the most practical but boy do they look pretty like if you're going to make this this phone looks like a piece of jewelry right like that's that's the look they're going for it'll probably be one of the best looking phones without a case if you ignore the iconic camera plateau um but yeah it looks really nice uh 5.6 millimeters thick sorry rumor is not 5.5 um and the durability we shall see now before we move on to the screen the physical attributes of this how much does it weigh because it's thin uh it's size between the pro and the on the uh Pro Max, it weighs 165 grams, which is 12 grams heavier, no, 12 grams lighter than the 17, 21 grams lighter than the 17 Pro.

1:19:43So it's not that much lighter than the plain 17. It's a lot thinner, but not that much lighter. To give a comparison, the iPhone 13 mini was 24 grams lighter than the Air. So the 13 mini was a way smaller phone, obviously, but the 13 mini was lighter. To give another comparison, the plain iPhone 12, not the mini, but the plain iPhone 12 was three grams lighter than the Air. Now, granted, the Air has a much bigger screen. It is a bigger phone length and width wise, but it's very difficult. I mean, especially for people like me who don't have a good familiarity with metric for me to gauge what is something that's 12 grams lighter than the iPhone 17 feel like.

1:20:22Is it going to feel light or is it going to feel heavier because it's so thin it will feel dense. You know, when you get something that's small, but it weighs the same amount of something that's big, the big thing feels lighter because you expect it to be heavier. Anyway, if you're looking for this to be a huge weight difference, 12 grams does not seem like a big difference. And so I can't wait to go to a store and pick this thing up and say, does it feel heavy or does it feel light? I know it's going to feel thin. You can see that it's thin, but will it feel heavier or lighter than the 17? Again, it is lighter than the 17 by 12 grams.

1:20:54Yeah. I mean, just like as a point of comparison, when we went to titanium from the 14 Pro to the 15 Pro, we went from 206 grams in the base Pro to 187. That's not that much of a savings, but it did feel significant. Oh, it felt big. But weren't those phones the same volume-ish? Yeah, they were about the same volume, but it did feel lighter. Because that's the wild card. Like, again, because this is so thin, will it feel heavier because you don't expect something that thin to feel that dense? You know what I mean? Right. And so I think it will feel noticeable. And it will be the combination of feeling the thickness and the lighter weight.

1:21:36Like, it will feel better. But, you know, as you were just going through, like iPhones have gotten, especially the pros, have gotten a lot heavier over the last few years than they used to be. Like we had a little bit of savings when we went 14 to 15 from titanium and then we just ate it right back up again with the 16 and now the 17 Pros. So they've gotten a lot heavier than they were even just five years ago. And that's – so the Air kind of brings us back there. But as you mentioned, like it's not as much lighter as you might think, mainly because the heaviest parts of the phones usually are the batteries.

1:22:07And the Air is mostly battery. Now, it's not as big as the batteries in the Pros or the regular ones, but it's a huge battery. The entire body of the phone below the plateau is basically just all battery. There's almost nothing else in there. It's like battery on the front of the screen. It is a big phone length and width. If they had decided to make this phone either the same size as the 17 or smaller than the 17, it would have been way lighter. But then the battery life would have been way worse. right like so it's interesting like they chose to put this phone in between the pro and the pro max so it's it's like it's bigger than the than the pro it's bigger than the plane 17 if you look at the phone head-on it looks like it's a bigger phone that gives them room to put more battery they use the heaviest materials they have they use titanium essentially because we had to which i i kind of believe them like to try to make it not bendy titanium is the way to go because you have such a thin rim around the thing i feel like they could have done unibody aluminum to save weight and keep the same rigidity but who knows what the limits are there i don't maybe maybe this thickness they didn't have a choice glass front and back um you know it's it's a pretty looking phone uh and i'll take them at their word about the bendability of all of a short youtubers will be bending this thing like crazy but it's it's this again they didn't tout the battery uh chemistry or anything like that they just you know we'll get to the battery life in a second but they they said oh it's fine but like you can't get around the fact that it's got seemingly the same soc as the pro phone with one of the gpu cores disabled maybe it's underclocked the screen just to get this out of the way it's 6.5 inches it's the same as all the other screens pro motion always on 300 minutes brightness ceramic shield improve anti-reflective coating uh it's just it's a screen that's in between the size of the regular and the pro max um so yeah this this is a product waiting for people to uh decide whether they want to buy this thing oh and the colors these are the the least daring colors of the entire lineup.

1:24:03The dishwater's back. Yeah. Sky blue, light gold, cloud white, space black. And if you look at all these colors, they are barely there. Yeah, it's very similar to like the way the new MacBook Airs have that sky blue, but like you really have to like look very hard just to notice it. It looks like that kind of difference between them. Yeah, especially since the glass, like the sky blue is more noticeable in the rim than the back. The back is the same way you say, is that a silver MacBook Air or the blue one? You're going to look at this. Is that the cloud white one or the sky blue one? Well, they're both in the sky, I guess.

1:24:35Like my white balance is off. I can't tell you. I do think it's interesting too. When you look at how they were selling this to us, what they kept talking about over and over again was durability and battery life. They drove those points home hard. And it makes sense. It's like, when you look at a phone like this, that's what most people would have concerns about. Like, hey, is that thing? You'd be worried about, yeah. Yeah, like, is that going to bend in half the moment I touch it? And also, does it have any battery life whatsoever? So it does make sense that they did spend so much time talking about durability and battery life.

1:25:11I do think it's hilarious that when John Ternus was introducing the battery life topic, he had just finished talking. he's like and this you know this has amazing battery life and then without even seemingly taking a breath i don't even know if there was punctuation between that and the next thing he instantly introduces the magsafe battery i mean i think i think you got to the point before where it's like it's addressing people's concern they're like well what if i don't believe you and whatever turns out it doesn't have good battery life what then and apple says well we've got another thing you can buy from us yeah you know it's not it's amazing i mean come on it's not a vote of confidence in their battery but it is exactly what you said trying to reassure of people to let them know we're going to have we can do something here um and that that battery pack i guess we'll jump to it now um as casey disappointingly found out this is a battery pack for the iphone air only it's the only iphone it works with you're like well they're all mac save it should work with all of them i don't think so because i think this thing goes up so high on the back of the phone because it's so thin that it can't go up that high on any of the other phones because their various camera plateaus and mesas are in the way so this is iphone air only it's very slim and by the way the battery pack does not have any place where you can plug a wire into it oh i didn't know that it charges through the phone only from what i've been able to gather in these scant hours that was a feature of the old battery pack that most people didn't know was there like you could the old maxi battery pack could be charged by the phone yes but i don't think anyone did it though i think this is the only way this one does oh i don't like that still seems like a good like it's a good accessory for the air um and like i think they've done a good job like the bumper cases that we talked about last week they do have bumper cases for it if you want that in addition to regular cases by the way apple's regular a bunch of apple's regular cases for the air have open bottoms inexplicably but like whatever like i like the open bottom uh i don't know when apple what makes apple decide whether or not to have open bottom but for the air they decided to like it's it's a pretty well realized product and this is this is because this is the first so they just announced the 17 then they do the 17 air or not the 17 then they do the air this is where they introduced the a19 pro so this is where they started talking about the cpu features in more detail does this also apply to the a19 i don't know but they said it in this part and they said you know performance cores have improved front-end bandwidth and branch prediction 50 increased last level cache what the hell is last level cache that's not really a term of art l3 they just wanted to you know marketing probably made them you're not allowed to say l3 no one knows that is um and then the the gpu cores they really bragged about the gpu cores here again are these gpu cores gpu cores different than the ones you bragged about in the in the a7 and the iphone 17 with the plane a tiny or are they not i don't know so i don't think they are because in the compare page all three phones gpus are described as with neural accelerators and that's the part they were talking about so and that's what's different from the previous generation gpu so it seems like the gpu cores themselves are the same across all three chips but there is just five of them in a19 and airs pro and then six of them in the pro pro well yeah well again we'll have to see when people start testing these things but this is this is the place where they didn't say this about the a19 but they did say to the a19 pro so we don't know if it applies to all of them or just the one but they said um it's got double floating point math rates uh up to three times the peak CPU compute of the A18 Pro.

1:28:37Maybe that applies to all the A19 chips or maybe just the Pro, but that is an impressive figure. And I'm assuming it's mostly due to the embedded neural engines or inside the neural accelerators inside the GPUs. Basically they're saying, if you want to use the GPU to do machine learning calculations instead of using the neural engine, you can do that and this will do it better. So that's why within, I'm assuming roughly the same power envelope, they're getting three times and they say very carefully, peak GPU compute. Doesn't mean like frame rates in games. Maybe it translates to that, maybe not, but it does mean how many computations can our GPUs do because they have that embedded neural accelerator in each one, they can do more.

1:29:16And they bragged about it saying, this is MacBook Pro levels of compute in an iPhone. So I guess we're going to have MacBook Pro levels compute in the Apple Studio Display 2. Yeah, my theory here on these chips is that this is the same chip. All three of these are the same chip and it's being binned because, again, it seems like the only difference is number of GPU cores and the presence of those, quote, last level caches. Well, GPU cores are pretty big. So is cache. On a silicon die, cache is big. And so if you have a defect and, you know, you lose some of your cache space or you lose a GPU core, you can bin that and you can put it in these lower models.

1:29:58So it's probably the same chip being made three different configurations it's usually been based on on memory though memory is so regular i would i don't know if the errors would be that anyway someone someone's gonna slice these things open and we'll find out but right now it's a bit of a mystery and also the clock speeds i'm just assuming that the errors the soc is clocked differently than the pros because it's gotta be but uh yeah they didn't say one way or the other oh also um similar time follow-up by the way mac rumors posted a thing earlier that they looked in the xcode resources and apparently they can confirm with their knowledge of certainty uh they are pretty certain that the ram amounts are eight gigs for the 17 and 12 gigs for the air and pro yeah that was that was before just before the event and in the week between when we recorded our prediction show and the event the rumors really were hurting it towards the 17 doesn't have 12 it just has eight but everybody else has 12 so that makes sense uh one thing that are two things that the air did get that are special to it because it's so darn thin and it has such a small battery is it got two new apple chips for wireless connectivity it got the n1 i guess that's for networking i don't know sure n1 implements wi-fi 7 cool bluetooth 6 yay another bluetooth number i'm sure it'll be fixed this time uh the thread radio and as apple said they already make wi-fi and bluetooth chips for the apple watch and the airpods now they make it for the phone why does this one have the n1 because i'm assuming the n1 is maybe they even bragged about it i forget takes less power to do these jobs than the chips they were getting from third parties so the n1 chip is there doing its job and also apple cell modem not the c1 they said we did the c1 and we've got a follow-up chip like is the c2 ready no the c2 is not ready but the c1x is ready and what's better about the c1x than the c1 more gpu cores supposedly it's it's twice as fast as the c1 i okay um and it's faster than the cell modem the 16 pro the qualcomm cell modem the 16 pro i'm assuming it doesn't do millimeter wave like that's why it's not the c2 yeah the iphone air does not support millimeter wave right but most importantly for the iphone air 30 less power than the c1 so the c1x and the n1 are helping to make the iphone air possible by using less power to do a better job at all the things that they're doing yeah this is this is great stuff like the like we're not that far off from Apple making all of their own cell modems.

1:32:17It's probably next year. If not, it'll be the one after that, but it's probably next year. We're very close now and so far, when the iPhone 16e was announced a few months back, that was the first one with Apple's cell modem in it, the C1. And we were all wondering, are there going to be any problems with it? Is it going to perform worse? And so far, it seems like it's fine. It launched and no one seems to have said anything afterwards. I know it's, I saw recently, I forget who did it, but somebody tested, um, like performance between the C1 and the Qualcomm modems. And it's basically the same.

1:32:49Like it's, you know, better occasionally in some ways, worse occasionally in some ways, but it's roughly the same. Yeah. Yeah. Like when we, right after the C1 was announced, someone did those tests and they said the same thing. And here we are several months later and new tests are still saying the same thing. Like you said, sometimes it's better. Sometimes it's worse. It doesn't have all the features of the Qualcomm one. It's not as fast. It's not as fast as the Qualcomm one, but for the role that it's playing in the 16e, no news is good news like we don't hear anything about it and it does what it does now i can see people being annoyed by like well i live in one of the places where actually it's worse than my past phone's chip if you don't live in one of the places where it's better and who knows what determines that because it's like a global situation so maybe it's not perfect but there are no glaring problems and it's not like when uh what was it the intel cell modem versus the uh where everyone knew the intel was just worse all the time yeah that was my iphone 7 so no no news is good news on the C1.

1:33:40And yeah, the N1, I'm assuming, will do well. Apple seems to be good at making these Wi-Fi and Bluetooth chips and it's got what I believe to be the latest standard on all of them, unlike the chips they're running in Macs. But maybe that'll get fixed in the M5 generation. According to Ternus, this is the most power-efficient iPhone ever made. And let's talk about the camera. Yeah, we'd hope so. Talking about the camera, 48 megapixels, 26 millimeter focal length, f1.6, 100 % focus pixels, two times telephoto, which now uses machine learning, they said. 18 megapixel center stage selfie camera, same as the iPhone 17.

1:34:15We talked about the dual capture stuff. Video, you get Dolby Vision up to 4K at 60 frames per second versus 120 frames per second on the 17 Pro and Pro Max. eSIM only worldwide. Piss off, China, where apparently, my understanding is SIMs are still very common. Internists called them decades-old pieces of plastic, which you're not wrong. That was remarkable. like the way he like so derisively talked about sims it's perfect it was pretty good not enough room in the air for a sim tray we'll see what they do with the other phone with that but yeah that it's what gets sacrificed in the altar of thinness uh no more sim card for you which makes sense well i believe they even said in the pro phones i believe they even said that like the ones that don't have eSims have more batteries that's right because that was also by the way that was another great job by the rumor mill they not only leaked that fact but leaked the geometry of where and how the battery the sim tray would be and how much bigger the battery would be that's super duper leaked but uh anyway we'll get to that when we get to that phone so yeah uh the battery it's all day battery life what does that mean well depends on depends on when it's said how many hours of video playback that's what i want to know so the air gets 27 hours video playback the iphone 17 pro 33 pro max 39 yeah it's got it's got to be on it or everything's got to be underclocked on it but they're they're trying their best to say this is going to be all day battery life uh only only the people who buy these and try to use it as their phone will be able to say for sure i mean one thing is that also is is likely to be very different between the air and the pros they both do have a very similar pro chip in them but the airs don't have the new thermal system so my guess is the airs will probably thermal throttle before the pros will which actually in some ways might be better for battery life in the sense that like they'll they'll pull down the speeds earlier but uh i bet they're just clock lower period all the time you know i don't know i don't know they they historically don't do a lot of that like they like apple's apple silicon they don't usually have different clocks within the same family well like a lower peak clock is what i'm getting at you know what i mean like obviously there's no one clock speed these things all run at they just go up and down in clock speed but i imagine the peak's gonna be But people will test it and find out.

1:36:30Like, they'll benchmark it. In the benchmarks, you'll see the thermal throttling, and also you'll see if the peak is lower. So once people get these phones in their hands, they'll test. Apple certainly wasn't saying in the presentation. Yeah. All right. The accessories. We get a low-profile MagSafe battery. Oh, God, I was so excited, fellas. I was so excited because, if you recall, I impulse bought that battery on the show just because you two jerks wouldn't buy one yourselves. And I ended up loving it. And I still use it from time to time. I love the original one. And it's not perfect, but I loved it.

1:37:01And the integration. My wife loves it too. And she was also excited about the new one until she found out she can't use it. Yep. iPhone Air only because, as we discussed, too tall. And one of the reasons she was excited about it is because that's like one of her only remaining lightning devices. Yep. Exactly. For me, it's that in my AirPods case. And so I'm halfway there. I'm living on a prayer. Anyways, they are also offering a translucent case that's less than a millimeter thick in frost and shadow colors. They're also doing a color-matched bumper, which I was really enthusiastically excited for.

1:37:33I enjoyed the bumpers back in the iPhone 4 era, and I think it's cool they're coming back. And then the rumor mill, speaking of absolutely nailing it, cross-body strap. It attaches phone case corners, and what they didn't say, or I don't recall having read in the rumor mill, but it looks cool, they did or did not? They did say this. Oh, okay, my bad. Well, anyways, it's lined with thin, flexible magnets, which is pretty cool. that's like how you how you adjust the length of it it's kind of like the old i feel like it's like the old milanese loop but it seems like it's kind of like infinitely adjustable but anyway the pictures of it show that pinch your chest hair yeah well i mean just like i mean just the adjustability back and forth but the pictures show that it attaches at the corner at the case corner so if you go to apple's case accessory pages in the store they all have different views of the case but now they have a bottom view and you have to look on the bottom view if you see the two bottom corners the two holes one two holes on each corner for the the thing to loop through like the lanyard thing not all apple cases have those holes in it but you need it to be there for the uh cross body strap to work and it seems like it attaches with this tiny whisper thin fishing line type thing that doesn't look particularly sturdy but i'm sure again someone will get this and try to do the yank test if you have this if you have your phone on a cross body strap can someone just walk by and go yoink and rip the thing off kind of like how in movies when anyone is wearing a necklace in a movie and someone wants to take it off them all you do is touch it and it just you can rip it off their neck instantly have you ever tried that with a real necklace that's not how real necklaces work most of the time uh certainly they don't come off intact all the time anyway um cross body strap exists it's got magnets it attaches to some apple cases and iBet in a bunch of third-party cases as well all right iphone 17 pro the most pro iphone yet by a lot it's the proiest it's the proiest of all the of all the phones can i just say the opening shot of the orange and i was like oh my god it looks like it's a pretty good orange they did it it's a good thing you don't follow the rumors because right after we recorded last week's episode there was a parts leak of the usbc port oh i don't think i saw that either it's a parts leak for the usbc port for the orange phone which is like such a a nothing part but you know how they color their ports to match the cases and that port was an actual discernible orange i'm like oh marco's gonna be excited by this because it's not bronze or timid yeah it's not copper you know brown yeah i i still maintain that it would be better to see this in person before deciding to buy it but because apple's artwork is not always exactly on point but at the very least it is uh it is not Dishwater Orange.

1:40:16Yeah, on that point like the very first thing I did after the event ended was go to YouTube and see like people posting their hands-on videos of it and it does look more pale in the hands-on videos than it does in Apple's marketing shots. So, you know I would, and also like the the flat part of the back like where the glass is, where the Qi charger and stuff are, that looks substantially lighter than the rest of the case in all the YouTube hands-on videos. So I would say like we don't know for sure how good of an orange it is but it certainly seems to be in the good orange family that's great news to me um because honestly like i guess we're not talking about this yet but um when i saw the the hands-on videos from people of the air i actually really didn't like it oh really the air and the hands-on videos you know obviously it's very much showing off like how shiny those case bands are around it i don't think i like the shiny case band look anymore i didn't I never liked it when it was on the Pros either.

1:41:15They're like surgical grade stainless steel polish. I never liked that either. And I think I don't like it either on the Air. And the Air's colors don't do anything for me. Whereas the Pro is like, oh, this has this cool orange. And even if it's not as bold in person as I hope it would be, it still looks pretty good overall in the videos I've seen so far. So I think, like, I was expecting the Pro to win me over with specs, but the Air to win over my heart. and like, I gotta have that cool looking thing. And in fact, as soon as I saw the videos of the Air, I'm like, ooh, that's not for me. Huh, I'll have to look at this because to jump ahead, I don't think I'm gonna be buying an Air, but I do think it looks, from only the Apple presentation, it looks super cool.

1:41:58And I am really intrigued by it. I don't think I wanna go that route for a few different reasons that we are yet to talk about that are features in the 17 Pro that the Air does not share. And most especially the camera system, but I am intrigued by it. And so I will be going to an Apple store, presumably, before we record next and checking it out for a little bit. I do think the air will probably feel better than it looks. That is a risk. I'm like, don't pick one up. Just don't pick it up. So since we're talking about the colors, the iPhone 17 Pro comes in only three colors. It comes in silver, cosmic orange, and deep blue.

1:42:35And that's it. No black, no gray, no space black, no white. Just silver, cosmic orange, and blue. which is a strange lineup. Like, kudos to not making them all look like the Air lineup, where it's just like dim pro things. The orange one definitely stands out. But strange and very limited lineup of colors for this one. No, this is great. This is the first time in a long time, possibly the entire history of the iPhone, arguably. History of the iPhone Pro, for sure. No, the entire... I think, honestly, this might be the entire history of the iPhone. the first time in a long time where the pro has the best colors of the whole lineup i think the 17 has the best colors well that's that's you um you i know you like the orange but the other two colors silver is meh and the deep blue is like the silver looks stupid but i think the blue is great i think the blue and orange are both great yeah i like the blue now and granted if you're not like a blue or orange person and you're looking at that silver i i would understand if you didn't like these colors.

1:43:38That would be fine. Get a case like everyone else and call it a day. Maybe get a vinyl wrap. Who knows what people do? But I really applaud Apple for making real colors in the pros. Yes, there is no dark black or space gray, but that's because they have made every single other pro phone available in four shades of black and gray. And we had so many of them. They used it up. They used up gray. They depleted the world's supply of gray. And now we have real colors. Thank God. I want them to do RGB, though. I want there to be a reddish one, a greenish one, a bluish one. Like, that's the thing that the 17 and the 16 and the 15 and the 14 always do.

1:44:20There's like a yellow one, a red one, a blue one. Like, this just has an orange one and two other ones that look like space colors. Honestly, I mean, again, we haven't seen any of these in person yet. We'll see how they look. I think that blue is also going to be a sleeper hit. I think the only reason the blue is not getting more of the attention today is that the orange really pops a lot more and is more novel for the pros. I think people are going to think the blue one is black. I don't know. It looks obviously – we've seen Apple do like very dark blues like in the MacBook Air, very dark blues where in person they just look black.

1:44:53This looks lighter than that in the pictures. But we'll see how it looks in person. But I think if they did their usual thing of like three grays and that blue, I think we'd all be saying that's a really nice blue. I'm going to go for that one. so I think it'll be a nice color. I mean I think it looks great I like the orange a lot it is not for me even though I do really like it and I know a lot of people like Marco like Steven and I think Jason if I'm not mistaken all of whom are very excited about this orange and I'm excited for you guys I am super super thrilled that Apple gave us something more than you know a vague whiff of color.

1:45:31I'm really excited that the Pro phones finally got color. I agree, John. It could have been different. It could have been maybe even a little bit better, but I'm not going to kick them at this point. I'm going to congratulate them that I'm really excited that there's something that looks like colors here. And I'm also... Like you said, they got color. Singular. I really do feel like they got color. They got one color and the other two are not. It looks good though. And we can thank I think for this. I think we can thank aluminum for this because Apple has been making really good, saturated, colored aluminum finishes since the iPod, since the iPod Mini in particular.

1:46:09They were really good since all the way back then with the iPod Mini at making colored aluminum in nice, bold, rich colors. And all these dishwater colors they've been making for the last few years, that was all glass and titanium and steel and everything. Now that they ship aluminum again on the ProPhone for the first time in a long time, and we have bold colors again. Thank God. Yep, I'm into it. It's the first unibody iPhone, which again, maybe there were rumors about this, but I don't recall having seen any. What are you talking about? We did a whole show where we talked about this exact thing.

1:46:40About it being unibody? Yes. Oh, all right. We said that exact word, I believe. I mean, I knew like the rumor mill like obviously had like, you know, the case designs nailed, but like I don't remember hearing that it was unibody. Okay, thank you. All right, scene. I feel like I wish we had a better real-time search. I'm pretty sure I actually literally said the word, you know, it's a machine out of a single piece of aluminum. Like you could see the case, the case, this exact case leaked. Anyway, it looks cool. You talked about it on the show. I don't know. I feel like you're gaslighting me. Anyway.

1:47:08Oh, no. Well, if I am, it's not on purpose. I'll put it to that way. This whole case leaked. And the reason they call it unibodies is because it is machined out of a single piece. And as you said, though, remember I was talking about torsional rigidity because it is because like the the sides connect with the back connect with the top connect with the other side. like that the camera plateau is not it's not like a band with a sandwich around it that's what i meant by unibody so anyway this all leaked uh you two should have been paying more attention forgive me if i did not say these exact words on the last show but anyway this is all good because as marco said it's all aluminum so it's it's lighter it's easier to anodize it transfers heat better uh you can you know and it i think it's probably more rigid than it was because it is a more complete shell remember when i was talking about how it's harder to repair because you can't go in through the back anymore you can only go in through the front for the cameras that you can take off that glass thing.

1:47:55Oh, yeah. It's all coming back to you. You'll be shocked to learn that it has the new ceramic shield on the back and the front because that has the big glass panel on the back. Maybe we didn't make that clear last time. Someone asked the question, how are they supposed to get anything to work if it's all aluminum? How is the signal going to get out? Most of the back is taken up by a, don't call it glass ceramic shield insert that's stuck in the middle of the aluminum thing. So that's where the Wi-Fi antenna is. That's where the MagSafe things are. But the iconic camera plateau is all aluminum.

1:48:27And the rumored vapor chamber cooler is inside there. It apparently contains deionized water and it's laser welded into the aluminum chassis. Apparently, the chassis has 20 times the thermal performance of the previous titanium. Aluminum is much better than titanium as a heat sink material. Well, aluminum is better than glass. I think that's the real thing. Yeah, lots of insulating things like the glass line thermoses and stuff. it's not it's really good for insulation not so much for heat transfer well that's because they create a vacuum it's not because but yeah yeah i get your point i have glass line like not the not the things that you have they have glass line thermosists that don't draw a vacuum between the edges i think or maybe when i was a kid because we used to break them accidentally anyway this also leaked and apple didn't talk about this but from i was pausing their like you know fake cgi images of the inside of the phone and i'm pretty sure this is correct that in this phone uh the logic board that has the so has all like the electronics on it all the chips on it is horizontal near the top of the phone from left to right like a strip for years and years the logic board has been kind of like a long one edge you know as like a vertical thing now the logic board fits horizontally towards the top of the phone which means that the whole rest of the phone is battery without the logic board getting in the way the only thing gets the way is in the sim tray and we'll talk about that in a second.

1:49:46But yeah, this thing on the inside looks like the rumors said it would, and it has the properties that we all hoped it would. They really touted the vapor chamber cooler and the temperature and the cooling. And what was their brag? It was like 40 % better sustained performance over the 16 Pro. That's what I was talking about with like, say you're playing a game for a long period of time. How long does it take the thermal throttle? What kind of frame rates can it maintain? They're bragging about sustained performance. I don't know if They even bragged at all about like peak performance or top level performance, but sustained performance is what this thing excels at because they've got a way to get the heat out.

1:50:20And they showed the heat pipe like going from the horizontal SOC like logic board thing, essentially sending the heat down the length of the phone, basically on top of where the battery is, although it's pointing outward, I'm assuming. So the heat is radiating out through the case or whatever. But that's where it's moving the heat from the horizontal logic board down to the rest of the phone where there is no electronics. Yeah, this looks very promising as like this should be a much better thermal design than before. Now, like I was saying last time, if you just move the heat better out of the phone, that's not going to help the fact that like if you have a case around it that's insulating the heat from getting out, which most people do.

1:51:00It's not going to be amazing at that. And the phone still has, unless you buy the stupid thing that I buy, the phone still has no active cooling of like a fan on the outside or anything like that. So like it's still going to be limited to how much heat just passively dissipates through the case. But making it easier for the heat to get to the case has got to help in certain contexts. So this is a good sign. And having I think it basically has more more mass to heat soak essentially because it's like with the titanium. I think it was just took so long for the heat to transfer. Like could the heat ever get to the you know the upper corner of the phone when you're playing a game like well through the titanium.

1:51:37it's going to take a long time for the heat to slowly heat up and crawl up to the corner of the home whereas aluminum i feel like it will race up there and it'll basically fill the fill the volume of aluminum uh metal with the heat to spread the heat around so it will take longer before it's heat soaked and by heat soak we mean that there's not enough of a heat delta between the hot thing and the thing pressing up against the hot thing for heat to move at all and then now there's nowhere for the heat to go you need a temperature differential you need something that's one temperature to be next next to something that is a different temperature for the heat to move and if that difference gets too low uh then you're essentially heat soaked like there's no place except no place else for the heat to go except for out into the air which can be difficult with the case or whatever so again well people will see when people start testing this but the design is promising the materials are promising and the things apples were touting are also promising in terms of the form factor of this thing it is seven grams heavier than the 16 pro and the pro max is uh six grams heavier than the 16 pro max so not much heavier but heavier and both these phones are one half of a millimeter thicker than their 16 predecessors so the pro phone is the proiest uh it is it is big it is thick it's got a big battery the pro max has the biggest battery that they ever shipped i think it's pushing like 500 milliamp hours 5 000 um yeah and the uh even like the plateau it's the biggest plateau the plateau is also they're touting like it's aluminum them that's going to dissipate heat too this little plateau's doing plateau's doing some work and the rumor about the antenna lines going around the plateau turned out to be true they're doing it so that's cool maybe it'll have because that if you think about it that's a ton more of those little plastic antenna lines instead of just those tiny little strips around the edges now it seems like the entire camera plateau has a line that goes all the way around it and i do wonder if that's gonna make the signal reception a lot better yeah it looks very promising for a design And I think, you know, going back a second to like the weight and the battery size, you know, when Apple designs a Mac laptop, it seems like their philosophy for a long time, and maybe not right now, we'll see, you know, as we go forward.

1:53:45But their philosophy for a long time was basically that Mac laptop battery life was solved. They were good enough. And therefore, every time you were able to reduce the or increase the efficiency of the laptop, then instead of just increasing the battery life and leaving the battery the same size, they would shrink the battery down. We heard the term that they were using internally was shedding excess battery. and they would shrink the battery down and therefore reduce a lot of other things, size, weight, et cetera, but also peak battery life whenever they could. It seems like they take the opposite approach to weight in the iPhone where they do whatever they can to save generally weight in the Pro phones with these case design and materials changes and everything.

1:54:35But then what they want to do is spend as much of those savings as possible on bigger batteries. And that's why as the phones get bigger, they're making them heavier. And each new generation, with the exception of that one savings we got from titanium, each new generation is like a couple millimeters bigger and more battery. And now with this one, they made a big case design change with this new aluminum unibody and the new big plateau. This is a huge change in the case is probably much lighter. They probably gained a decent amount of internal volume with the new Mesa design or plateau design.

1:55:10And so what do they do? They made the battery a lot bigger. It's like 20 % bigger. That's why like the phone, despite the lighter case and everything, it got a little bit heavier. Without the lighter case and everything, it would have gotten a lot heavier. so you know at least at least they're keeping it in the range it was before i still think these phones are heavier than is ideal but their philosophy with the phones is very clearly with the pro put as much battery that will fit in the case and we'll just deal with the weight and so i and i can't argue with the utility of that it does seem like most people especially pro buyers want that extra battery life yeah like when you have a line that this big and this diversified this is the role of the pro to be the biggest meanest heaviest hottest most powerful like that's that's its role yeah it's you know and they and they continue to push it in that direction rather than like reeling it back in and the air gives even more breathing room it's like we've got these other phones with all sorts of sizes and shapes that we keep trying over there but the pros mission has always been clear and they lean into that pretty heavily with uh the features we'll get to in a little bit and even here on the on the e sim only models as we mentioned uh they're they're figured that they give you so you can look at the internals and see how much more battery we get well it's like one more square centimeter well what does that translate to apparently two hours of video playback because that's the only way apple measures battery anymore two additional hours of video playback for having e-sim only why because the place where the sim tray would be we put battery there good cool uh before we move on something i'm very curious about are these going to be weighted in an odd way like are these going to be top heavy particularly the air or maybe the air will be the opposite maybe it'll be top light since the battery is everywhere but the camera uh plateau no i i don't think so like i i think you'd think so volume wise but i think you're right that like the battery is probably the most dense and heaviest part and the battery is not in the sometimes the battery tucks up under the plateau a little bit but it's mostly not there it's mostly the the cameras which have the highest volume of air inside an iphone i imagine is probably inside the cameras because air is a functional part of it whereas it seems like every other part of it's like the old uh story uh which may or may not be true of uh the ipod team complaining that they couldn't make it any smaller and steve jobs takes an ipod and puts it puts it into a conveniently placed fish tank that apparently was in the meeting room and air bubbles start coming out of it and he says see those bubbles that means you can make it smaller it's such a good story i hope it's true because it's such a good story but anyway the space is tight inside the iphone there's not a lot of wasted space uh but if there's any like it's probably the air gaps inside the cameras and the tetra prism and all that other business or whatever so we'll see when we get them and hold them in person i don't expect i certainly don't expect the pro to feel top heavy at all the air we'll see all right uh let's see where are we so colors we talked about uh no black i still think is funny uh i'm not complaining but i'm very surprised yeah speaking of the no black the other thing is the only neutral color like white balance wise is the silver yeah that's true uh the a19 pro i mean i feel like we've talked about everything right is there anything else no that's just it's the a19 pro with all the cores enabled and 40 % better sustained forms because of the vapor chamber, supposedly.

1:58:18Sounds good. The back panel, like we said, Ceramic Shield, four times more crack resistance than previous backs, or so they say. And we talked about... We'll test that. Yeah, I'm sure I will test that. eSIM-only models, like we said, bigger batteries. We talked about most... I guess we didn't really talk about the cameras, did we? Yep, it's time to talk about the cameras. This is where they're spending... You know, again, the role of the pro phone is to have all the best stuff, and camera is a real important part of the phone and this is a pretty big year for camera upgrades to the phone again not because of the one x because it seems like the one x camera the main camera is the same as it ever was but now that what they're touting is all three back cameras are 48 megapixel quote-unquote fusion cameras we already mentioned the 48 megapixel ultra wide from the 17 and this has it as well and it also has a brand new 48 megapixel fusion telephoto tetra prism lens with a 56 percent bigger sensor than the previous gen improved 3d sensor shift image stabilization and from what i was able to gather from apple's presentation and their crappy lack of tech specs on their product pages is that this is a 4x optical zoom tetra prism camera yes that lets you crop into 8x so at 4x you get a 48 megapixel image at f 2.8 with 1.4 what is that micrometer quad pixels or 0.7 micrometer single pixels.

1:59:41I believe that's right. Yeah. And you get an 8x zoom. And so the rumors were saying this is going to be 8x zoom telephoto. And they were, you can see how they were getting that, but no, it's a 4x optical zoom camera that you can crop in to get a 12 megapixel 8x zoom thing again at f2.8 with the 0.7 micrometer pixels. So as they touted, it's our longest optical quality zoom ever. If you want to just have the decoder ring whenever apple says optical quality it means not optical yep it's optical quality yeah but not it's like leaves your dishes virtually spotless that means your dishes have spots on yeah typically the more word the more qualifying words you add to a term the less it is like that term yeah but it is interesting because what they're saying is like that the 5x maybe was a little bit too zoomed in so this is optically 4x because it's easier it's easier to zoom in it's much more possible to zoom in within a camera but it's you can't really zoom out you got to switch to a wider camera at that point so they moved it back to say optically it's a 4x but it's 48 megapixel and you can move in to 8x at you know the 4x is 100 millimeter equivalent they say and 8x is 200 millimeter equivalent so i think this is probably a better compromise and they touted it at the end by saying look at all the different ranges we have it's like you have eight cameras in one and basically said the main is like these two focal lengths and the ultra wide can do these two focal lengths and the tetra prism can do these focal lengths um so i think they're covering a good range here and the fact that they're all 48 megapixels is we'll see what the quality is like because it doesn't mean that doesn't mean they're all equally like the quality is equally good but the sensor is 56 percent bigger on the telephoto so maybe the telephoto ones won't be as clearly lesser quality as they used to be i'm assuming they still will be lesser quality but maybe it'll be a closer race yeah they will because it's still like when you compare it to the 1x sensor the 1x sensor is pixels the quad pixel size is two is it micrometers the the melting you is that micrometers all right so anyway yeah the 1x is two micrometers of a pixel size instead of 1.4 yeah right and yeah and the zoom is 1.4 so it is it's still a smaller sensor because like you know to just optically speaking to have a longer lens you know in such a tiny little space you're probably going to end up with a smaller sensor um but it is bigger than the last one the 12 the 12 megapixel one than the last one so i think overall yeah they're still going to definitely be quality sacrifices between the 1x pictures and the 4x pictures no question but there should be a smaller difference like the 5x from the outgoing models was not a very good lens or camera or sensor at all it was as i mentioned you know last week like it was functional it was not good it was great if you wanted to like hey take a picture of that really far away parking sign or whatever but like you weren't getting a lot of great art out of it this improves the chances that you will get better art out of it.

2:02:31It's still not going to be similar. It isn't going to be to the level of the 1X, but it's going to be less of a downgrade. And as for the focal lengths, I think this is great. Like, now you have the 1X doing 1 well, 2 okay, this will do 4 pretty well, and 8 kinda okay. I think that's a really good spread that covers the range well. going from you know from the the 1x all the way to the 5x before that was a big span ideally i would love for this to to be what was rumored i believe a while back which was like 3.5 and 7 as the like the the telephoto and the crop telephoto that would be i think a little bit more ideal because i could bring it in a little bit more because at that at that full 8x the you know the 200 millimeter equivalent for a full frame that's pretty zoomed in for a phone especially um that's going to be a stabilization challenge and it's going to be a really tiny crop in the middle of an already not that big sensor.

2:03:35That's why they've got improved 3D sensor shift image stabilization. I mean, that's great, but you've got to fight physics here pretty hard. And again, I'm guessing that crop of the 8X, I haven't done the math, it's probably less sensor area than the outgoing 5X was, which is going to mean those pictures are going to suck. now that being said um they did you know casey mentioned a little bit a little bit ago they said that the at least on the 2x uh crop off the main sensor they are now using machine learning enhancement of details at 2x i'm assuming i don't know if they said that probably also applies to the 8x mode yeah they did in this section they said deep learning models for demosaicing demosaicing is how they take like the sensors aren't like rgb for every single pixel they have they do this demosaicing thing where they take the sensor values and derive rgb pixels from the various sensors that surround them and this is where they're using the deep learning models to instead of doing that sort of mechanically straightforward way they have models that have some awareness of what you're taking a picture of demosaicing is not the same thing as hey i took a picture of the moon and it replaced it with like a rendered image of the moon that's not this demosaicing is a very low level thing that happens inside the camera but we'll see i mean there's always the opportunity for there to be weird artifacts because the deep learning model knows something about the picture and does weird stuff um hopefully third-party camera apps will be able to disable or route around that to you know what it was that process zero the halides thing or whatever uh to to get cameras that are more true to what the sensor is seeing and let you do your own processing on them but all we have to go on now are apple's marketing speak and they did tout this deep learning and new levels of their camera systems.

2:05:25Yeah. So ultimately, this looks like a pretty solid upgrade for the cameras. It looks like a pretty significant one. We'll see how it plays out in practice once we actually get these things and use them and see that zoomed in mode and everything. We'll see. But it looks like a pretty substantial upgrade. So I'm looking forward to it. Yeah, very much so. And the real pro stuff here, you can tell it's the real pro stuff because most people have no interest in it. That's when you know it's the real pro stuff, which is ProRes RAW capture, which that's why they have a two terabyte pro max and also the phones support external storage as of like a generation or two right so this is for people shooting movies on iphones which is a thing that happens so a surprising amount these days so pro res raw uh and gen lock which is a time code uh synchronization standard in the uh the real like you know movie camera type industry those are features that regular people are never going to care about or use the gen lock thing i think requires a giant uh external hardware brick to make it work um there's no 8k support there was a rumor of like maybe you can do 8k like it probably could if you pressed it but no 4k 120 is still what it is but like the prores raw capture the external storage the gen lock thing um these are all features for people like apple who are shooting professional video with an iphone which you might think oh that's just a stunt just apple does that but and there was like Soderbergh did a movie on iPhones years and years ago but there is a surprising number of current movies or recent movies that have been shot either partially or entirely on iPhones and you wouldn't even know it so like I look at this thing with its four with its 348 megapixel cameras huge battery vapor chamber cooling and you know ProRes rohan gen lock stuff and I'm like this is really you know becoming a a pro camera with a phone attached to it and they're really leaning in that direction i do wonder if someday they're actually going to push even farther and have a model that is dedicated to being a camera we're not there yet but every time they do these presentations and they have more segments that are of interest to like nobody in the audience except for literal professional videographers it seems weird and on that front i didn't get the answer to this before the show but and i i think i said it in one of the slacks we're in and no one offered their opinion is it just me or was this presentation 60 fps i have no idea i understand the question i don't know i don't know either because i didn't couldn't figure out from the video stream once it once it's downloadable i'll check to see that could have just been my imagination because hdr sometimes looks unreal or whatever but uh if it was 60 like because they shot an iphone they said they shot an iphone they've shot past ones on iphones or whatever and iphone you can choose how you want to shoot it but it does support 4k 120 it supports 4k 60 i do wonder if this was shot at 60 frames per second um i couldn't i couldn't tell immediately but something looked weird to me but it does kind of i'm looking back like at the people sections it It does look like it.

2:08:06Yeah, I think it might be. Yeah, there's a little... I kind of think of it because I shoot my movies in 60 FPS too, which it looks different. We're used to like movies are in 24 frames a second, TV is in 30 in this country, or 29.97, whatever the hell. So 60 does look a little bit different. But yeah, this camera, even especially the orange, it's kind of like a thing that you would see on a movie set, like a piece of professional video equipment more than a phone that people use. But anyway, it's a powerful camera. It's a powerful phone. It's both things in one. All right. So the phones all look great.

2:08:45We'll talk more about them in a minute. The accessories, TechWoven is here, just as the rumors announced. They specifically called out they are resistant to stains, which is kind of funny. There's also clear cases, silicon cases, and all cases have a new button design, and they all work or no i'm sorry not all of them some of them work with crossbody strap the tech woven for iphone pros and the silicone cases for all the iphones yeah and again if you go to the case product pages go through the images like towards the end they'll show one of the bottom of the phone if you want to look for those like vampire holes which is interesting because if you're not interested in lanyard you're like why are there these four extra very large holes on the bottom of my iphone case well it's for there in case you want to put a lanyard on and i'm very curious to see someone take these apart and say what's behind those holes because there's got to be some kind of reinforcement because it was like on a silicone case you can't just have silicone there like anything you any lanyard you put in there would just rip through in two seconds so that's interesting and these all these ones with lanyard straps that i've seen are closed bottom which makes sense uh but yeah tech woven looks interesting i'm trying to kind of encouraging my wife to get tech woven just so we can see what it's like she got fine woven and didn't mind it but I'm interested to at least feel what TechWoven looks like.

2:10:01And again, kudos to the rumor mill for getting the name as well. And I'm also interested in, like, they glossed over it, and you just mentioned it too, but like, oh, we have better buttons. How? Why? What's better about them? I don't know. We'll find out. Yeah, I don't know. I'm glad they are continuing to try this. Based on the website photos of TechWoven, I'm not really sold. I think Peak Design's Everyday Case looks a lot better as a Fabric Nice case. we'll see. I mean, I'll certainly want to play with them in the store once I see them. But so far, TechWoven is not really drawing me to it. Yeah.

2:10:36So at this point, they start talking about the iPhone 17 Pro Max, and I'm getting real nervous because they said, oh, there's four iPhones, the iPhone 17, the iPhone Air, the iPhone 17 Pro, and oh, here comes the iPhone 17 Pro Max. What are all the ways it's going to be all kinds of better? And I'm thinking, oh, God, I'm going to have to go up in size again, which I didn't mind when I did with 15 Pro Max, but I was not keen on the idea of going big again. And they basically said, well, you can get two terabytes. That's it. Yeah. That's certainly the only difference. Yeah. So much for the optical zoom 5X to 8X.

2:11:11Nope. Doesn't exist. There's nothing different about it. It's got a humongous battery. It's the biggest battery ever. The longest battery life ever. Yada, yada, yada. It's a big phone, but it's not appreciably different than the 17 Pro. Yep. Which I am very excited about, as I said earlier. All the iPhones, as we mentioned, start at 256 gigs. Prices,$17 starts at$800. The Air starts at$1 ,000. 17 Pro at$1 ,100. Pre-ordering this Friday at 8 a.m. in the One True Time Zone. Available the following Friday on September 19th, which is the way it's been for years now. iOS 26, available Monday the 15th.

2:11:49This is not what this episode is about, but I'm going to tell you right now. Call sheet is not even going to be close to September 15th. However, I will put in a plug for Overcast, which I'm not saying it will be available on the 15th. I'll let Marco talk in one second. But I will say I'm on the beta and it looks good. So get excited for that. Thank you so much. Yeah, I submitted it to Apple earlier this evening. So we'll see if it gets through app review in time. Who knows if it will? But that's always a wild card to some degree. But I think it probably will. And this is the first year in, oh, geez, many years that I've been ready on day one with an update to take advantage of the OS, the new OS.

2:12:31That being said, it's not perfect. Neither is the OS. So I, you know, there's there's a couple little like visual glitch bugs that I have not yet figured out how to fix. Honestly, like it seems like it's iOS bugs. Like, OK, I guess I'll have to deal with that. but I'm pretty proud of where it landed after a very bumpy summer. Very bumpy but I think I got to a good place. My prediction earlier in the year when there were rumors of a redesign of the OS and I said back then if they do that that's all we will have time to do this fall. No new features. That's basically true. That's basically what happened.

2:13:13So Overcast is ready for the redesign basically. And there are almost no new features. So that's where I landed. I look forward to the rest of the year of actually working on features, hopefully. Yeah, and CallSheet, I have been working very hard on it, particularly in the last few weeks, even despite the fact that my house is periodically underwater. I don't want to talk about it. But suffice to say, I am starting to make progress. I tweeted earlier, or whatever we call Mastodoning earlier, that I can almost see a speck of light at the end of the tunnel, which is a lot better than I could say about a day ago.

2:13:48So I'm planning on something. No promises. I'm planning on something for iOS 26. But it almost certainly will not be in September. And I am aiming for early October, but we'll see what happens. John, since I've brought this up, even though I told everyone we weren't going to talk about it, what is the situation in as few words as possible for your app library? well most importantly it's a this wasn't in the the presentation but we all saw it afterwards like apple's press releases on their website or wherever that ios 26 coming out september 15th when i saw someone post an image that tahoe is coming out september 15th i'm like that's got to be a joke because like for many many years until very recently mac os would always come out later than like ipad os and ios or whatever because this is not as important and sometimes it was awkward because there'd be like some kind of feature with like synchronizing the new version of notes and was like but the new version of mac os isn't out yet what should i do or whatever and i was like well this year i bet they'll just they'll wait on mac os because like mac os will come out in october or something because it's so clearly not ready to ship right nope mac os tahoe monday september 15th which boggles my mind as someone who's been using tahoe every single beta for a huge amount of time like i cannot believe they're going to ship this i would strongly advise people, maybe think twice about upgrading to Tahoe 26.0 because things are rough.

2:15:11And not just in the OS itself, because a lot of the things that I found in my app is that Tahoe broke my apps. Things that used to work stopped working and I had to figure out why are they not working? And how can I make them work on both Tahoe and the older OS? That has been frustrating. And any app, any mac app that has not been updated to do what i just described on tahoe is going to have things that are broken in it they're through essentially no fault of the developer because they worked fine on like whatever all the previous os is that it supported but now tahoe broke them because lots of stuff in tahoe is broken in fact i just added a feature like two days ago to try to work around my misunderstanding of how a new tahoe feature is supposed to work and now i realize i have to undo that and redo it in a different way so i have not submitted my app for app review it's going to be or any of my apps for app review it's going to be quite a race to the finish in particular switch glass is the most broken so i really need to get that one out but that's also the one where i have to redo the work i just did two days ago because now i have a better way i misunderstood the way some features supposed to work in daho and so i did a weird thing that wasn't helping and didn't work and i have a better idea of her now but i'm up against it for all these things i'm going to submit all my apps and upload all my apps and cross my fingers because i there are every single thing that i've written all five of the apps that i published three of which are on the mac app store two of which are dinky like do nothing helper apps whatever all of them have code changes like functional code changes that you will want if you're running tahoe so i'm gonna try to be there on day one uh i think i'll be able to submit all my apps within the next two days but then it's the question mark about app review and if i make it through and yada yada uh but i'm the most shocking news of the entire day is the shipping tahoe in september Why?

2:16:56What's the rush? It totally needs more work. Please, please work on it more. So much stuff is broken. Anyway, be careful out there. for podcasters uh rogue amoeba makes some really incredible um apps that we use to record our microphones and things like that i don't remember if they sponsored in the past but they're friends and they really do make incredible stuff and typically they're not day one for new releases although they're usually very close and so i'm not usually a day one upgrader but i'm typically a month one upgrader and i gotta tell you i don't know if that's gonna be me on tahoe anytime soon i don't want to be that guy that old man but oh i think i might wait a while because wait a little bit like because and i can't even tell you like is the point one going to be like a huge relief or are we going to have to wait till like the point four or point five for things to settle down because so much basic stuff is broken and janky and weird again not just in the parts of the os that you'll use like oh this dialog box look weird and this button was misaligned and this text was over yeah you'll see that but in the apis that third-party apps use apis that used to work fine and now do something weird or janky and that's that's where you're going to see it because it's going to be like you're going to upgrade and even if the os is fine all the apps that you have that didn't update on day one along with you are going to do weird stuff so i really wish they had held this one back i don't understand why they're rushing it out but someone said the deadline and it looks like all the os is watch os ios ipad os presumably tv os september 15th whether they're ready or not and they're mostly not yeah everything is remarkably in sync with this with with today's releases like all the os's are coming out monday all of the every single product that was announced today is coming out the 19th like everything is totally synced up so uh we'll see what happens but uh for what it's worth i've been running the ios betas for the last several betas they're not perfect they still feel like betas to me i just as we were recording upgraded to the to the release candidate i think that's fine.

2:18:56I wouldn't enthusiastically suggest it, but I think it is fine on iOS. And if you're an iPad user, again, there's foibles and issues and things, but the new windowing is incredible. So I do strongly advise if you're willing to put up with a little bit of inconsistencies, upgrading to the latest iPadOS. But yeah, we'll see about Tahoe. All right. Anything? Oh, we have to talk about what we're planning to buy or did already buy. I can tell you that I think I said earlier, I am in for a pair of AirPods Pro 3. I plan to buy a blue iPhone Pro Max in whatever capacity this Pro, or excuse me, I said Pro Max, I did not mean that.

2:19:36An iPhone 17 Pro in whatever capacity I currently have, which I think is 512. And I will probably be getting Erin an orange one because her school colors are actually orange and blue. And so together we will look really great at UVA tailgates. But anyways. You look like the Denver Broncos. Or the University of Virginia. But anyways, the point is, is that she'll be getting a orange. As far as I know, I haven't really spoken to her about it. I'll be getting the blue. And I don't plan on getting a watch, as I said. And I will be definitely looking at and probably lusting after the air. But again, because of the thermals, because of the cameras, I don't expect to desire to own one or certainly not to have that be my only phone.

2:20:17But we'll see what happens. Marco, what are you planning to do? As mentioned earlier, I was going into this event expecting to have the Air as my phone. And then once I saw the combination of not really liking the way the Air looks and the orange of the Pro being pretty good looking so far, I changed my mind on that. And so I'm going with 17 Pro, the regular size, probably 256 because I've been getting 256 for a while. It's been fine. I'm like I'm near the edge of it. So maybe I go 512 this year, but it's another$200. And like, it seems like it might be wasteful, as wasteful as any of this is.

2:20:58But, you know, I think I'm going to skip the watch. I don't really think I need one for any reason this year. And if I do skip it, I think that'll be the first Apple Watch generation that I skip. Oh, interesting. I'm on the John plan for Apple Watches, generally speaking. So I typically only go every other year. I'm sure that's been not true at some point in my life. But generally speaking, that's what I do. So you're on the every year plan, generally speaking? I have been. And in large part, in the earlier days especially, that was because developing an Apple Watch app, you would want every bit of performance you can get because it was such a sluggish process, like transferring the app over and debugging it and launching it.

2:21:37It was so awful that if you upgraded a watch every year, each time you could save minutes per run of your app. like it was it was significant um that's no longer really the case um so i think i'm probably going to skip the watch this year um certainly for now i'm skipping it um we'll see you know as the year goes on if i need a big bigger one for any reason like my old my testing ultra is the first gen ultra and it's pretty old and worn at this point so maybe i'll get the ultra later in the year for testing but i probably don't need to um and then you know tiff's getting the the orange pro she she skips iphones now every every other year um but it's she's up for one so she's she's also getting orange we're gonna be a dual orange family but i figure like that's okay i make an orange app that's fine we're all team overcast over here is she not pro max i had in my mind she's max yeah sorry she's oh okay okay yeah and then uh we're both getting new airpods because they're awesome and we use them constantly good deal john you said this is an off year for you is that right yep no new phone for me this year although i will say this is the first year i was tempted to try the airpods pro for two reasons one uh the different shape and two the five different tips i don't like things in my ears but i always i'm always like well maybe maybe it's not as bad maybe i'll try it i tried the airpods one i tried the airpods two and i was like nope nope nope and i'm like well maybe these ones they've got a foam tip they're different shape yada yada like because i like the feature set the only thing i don't like about them is having stuff shoved into my ear holes which is why i still use the airpods four but i'm i'm not gonna do it like Maybe I'll wait to see if someone else has them in my family that I can try theirs out or something.

2:23:12But I don't know. Anyway, all this is to say is I found them to be an impressive product that almost tempted me to order them, but I didn't. Instead, it's the whole rest of the family's year to get a phone. So my wife and I trade off years. This is not my year to get a new phone. I have a 16 Pro. I'm keeping my 16 Pro for another year. She has a 15 Pro. She is going to get a 17 Pro. She was waffling between the orange and the silver. but like i i was trying to push her a little bit towards the silver just because she likes to have colorful cases and orange is not going to go with a lot of case colors even like she was like well maybe i get a purple case with it again to your point casey about that but like you don't you have limited options to coordinate case colors with that orange and you're going to see a lot of the orange because the gigantic camera plateau is very visible through the case uh so she seems to be leaning towards silver uh both my kids are getting plain 17 my daughter has chosen sage my son is not responding to my texts.

2:24:05I don't know what color he wants. My daughter, 256 is fine with her. She's not even using all the 128. I actually looked at my phone while you were talking about storage, Marco, and I'm at 263 usage on my 512. So I couldn't get a 256 or I shouldn't get a 256 because I'd really be pressing up against the edge of it. But my kids are not using that much storage, probably because they don't have that many photos yet. And my daughter is currently using the clear case so we're getting a clear case for her 17 my son has been using our box cases but i'm going to see if i can convince him to try one of the apple cases this year we'll see um my daughter has also been using uh the a magsafe wallet to put like her student id in or whatever because she's at college now but she's got complaints about it and apparently she says that it's hard to take the cards out because she got some cheap like amazon third party magsafe wallet and having trouble getting the cards in and out and she says that her like student id like door loop thing like that you press up against a door to open the door she seems to think that the magnets interfere with that and i'm not sure if it's the magnets in the wallet or the magnets in the phone or whatever i was suggesting to her she should get a an apple magsafe case instead of this weird third-party amazon case that she liked because it had pretty flowers on it and maybe that will work better performance wise with the camera thing but her current plan is to get the clear apple case and then buy a sticky as in like permanent stick on sticker wallet to stick to the apple clear case which of course means she can no longer stick it to the mag safe mount in the car because there will be a wallet permanently attached there but she doesn't have a car at college anyway so this is an ongoing struggle like what i'm trying to do is i need to get everybody's orders in tell me color figure out the storage what kind of cases do you want and then so i can be prepared when these orders go live, which is, what, the 12th, Friday?

2:25:52So I can be there on Friday to order three phones. And I'll mostly be concentrating my wife's, because I imagine the plane 17 will be easy to get. But, yeah, that's the plan. Even though it's quote-unquote not my year for a phone, we're buying three iPhones. Thank you to our sponsors this week. Delete me and Grammarly. And thanks to our members who support us directly. You can join us at atv.fm slash join. One of the perks of membership is, this show doesn't have to be over. If you want more of us. After all that, you can listen to ATP Overtime. Every week we do a bonus topic called ATP Overtime.

2:26:25This week on Overtime, we're going to be talking about Apple's competing implementations for the new Siri. There's been a lot of rumors around that, and so we're going to be talking about that in Overtime. Alright, you can join to listen to ATP.fm slash join. Thanks everybody, and we'll talk to you next week.

2:26:41Now the show is over They didn't even mean to begin Cause it was accidental Oh, it was accidental. John didn't do any research. Marco and Casey wouldn't let him. Because it was accidental. Oh, it was accidental. And you can find the show notes at ATP.fm. And if you're into Mastodon, you can follow them at C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S. So that's Casey Liss, M-A-R-C-O, A-R-M, N-T, Marco, R-M-E, S-I-R-A-C, USA, Syracuse. It's accidental. It's accidental. They didn't mean to. Accidental. Accidental. Tech Podcast, so long. I was going to interrupt you during your spiel to clarify that, hey, if you want to hear more of us, yeah there's always the after show like our show is such a confusing format for new listeners like i think i'm already getting overtime because after they say that i always hear more of the show you're hearing the after show not overtime which comes after the after show i know it's confusing but you know hopefully i feel like the people who are uh considering purchasing membership have probably been listening long enough to have internalized our weird format and understand that overtime is not the same as the after show also like you know people i think people are able to look at their podcast app.

2:28:14And they can probably see like, oh, there's still 15 minutes left. Like granted, a lot of shows put a whole bunch of crap at the end that you skipped past, but like 15 minutes would be a lot. Like that would be unusual. You're saying 15 minutes for the after show? Because our overtime is usually longer than 15 minutes. No, I'm saying, yeah, for the after show. Because, you know, I'm saying like, you know, a lot of like, you know, the big market podcast, like the podcast made by staffs of 10 people, a lot of times their actual content ends a good three minutes before the actual file ends because they're going through, you know, our editor this week was so-and-so, the music by so-and-so, and then they have three minutes of promos and ads after all of that.

2:28:53Like, so you could be forgiven if you look at your podcast app as a listener and we see see you next week and you see there's like, you know, two and a half, three minutes left. You could be forgiven for saying, all right, Marcus played, move on. But if you see there's like 10 or 15 more minutes, like, okay, there's probably content somewhere in there. speaking of content anyone have an after show no you kidding i i i feel like i had an idea earlier then it jumped right out of my head so i got nothing i think i'm gonna actually like i was when i was i was taking out like my apple watch ultra earlier and like i have like some i have a couple of iphone 14s for testing i have some some old iphone se's i think i'm gonna do like a big apple trade-in for all this stuff it's like you know you get maybe 100 bucks for most of the stuff like you don't get a lot but i have a lot of them.

2:29:41Yeah, be prepared for disappointment. Apple's official trade-in prices are not great. No, and yeah, there are other, like, people often ask what do you do with your old things? There are other trade-in sites, many of which pay a bit more than Apple does, but Apple's trade-in is really easy and reliable and usually is fine. Now, like with many things, like, you know, you could sell your phones on eBay and make the most money or sell them privately and make even more because then you wouldn't be paying eBay's fees. But that's, you're taking on more work and more risk. And so like everything, it's like, well, there's options if you want to take on very little work and very little risk, but you will make less money.

2:30:23But right now, these things are mostly just sitting around like in drawers and stuff, like waiting to be tested. And my test fleet is quickly aging. And now that I'm, you know, on iOS 26, I like Overcast works on iOS 18, but I don't think i'm going to keep that for that long like maybe six months and then i'm really going to only need like one set of test devices so i think i think i i have a bunch of stuff i want to clear out here and rather than mail it all to you i you know i'll wait till it's worthless before i mail it to you well it's still worth something i'll send to apple and get some get some credit yeah speaking of iphone fleets and cameras or phones that are in drawers uh my wife uh as people know who listen the show has many phones uh usually on her at the same time anywhere from two to three four depending if she has her work phone she's got a lot of iphones so much so that they weigh a lot in her purse uh and why because she's doing pokemon go so a lot of our older phones end up going into the pokemon go fleet because she plays multiple accounts uh along with the auto catching things and stuff like that anyway i bring this up just to celebrate one of my wife's uh dreams come true recently um she always wanted to have whatever we'd go like on vacation or somewhere or someone else's house or like one of my kids dorm room or whatever they said you're so lucky you have a pokey stop within range of like your bedroom so you can spin the stop and do all the things that you need to do and maintain your streaks from your own house uh and now finally her dream has come true there is a pokestop within range of our house oh nice she had a friend who is experienced at suggesting new pokestops and knows how to like do it and work the system and she sent him suggestions can you please suggest this this in this place and he did it he got a pokestop to be near her our house so now she can spin stops from the comfort of her own bedroom she's probably doing it as uh as we speak right now she's very excited about this i feel like isn't pokemon go the game that's supposed to like make you get up and walk around and now you're celebrating the fact that you can do part of the game from within your house and she's like well i'd be in my house at night anyway and this just lets me like on the alternate phones that i'm not carrying with me all the time this lets me maintain my streaks or whatever on my secondary and tertiary and quaternary phones or whatever anyway she's super excited about it and i'm happy for her but all this is to say is that phones have a real hard time leaving our house because what actually happens to them.

2:32:53They get cycled into the Pokemon Go fleet and that's a harsh life for a phone. Because they're on all the time. They're running that game all the time. When you run a game... To me, well, you're the one preserving your battery, taking every possible precaution. This is where the phones are going to end up. Only to have it trash. If you run Pokemon Go as the only app you run on your phone and you have to leave the phone essentially on and running that game to do the auto-catching thing and stuff, it slaughters the batteries. It just murders them. And so, yeah, it's a short, brutal life for these things.

2:33:27Eventually, they become worthless and just get recycled. I have brought things to the Apple store for recycling, not for trade-in, but just for like, I don't have to pay you, and please just take this and make it go away. They don't give me any money. I don't give them any money. I figure it's a fair deal to get rid of this battery, which I would otherwise have to take to the electronics recycling thing or whatever. I just give it to Apple, and they do something good with it. And that's that is ultimately the end stage of phones in our household. We do have a big box of stuff in the attic, but I save some ones that I have sentimental value.

2:33:58Like I think we've got her iPhone 4S because I love that one. I think we've got a five. I've got my pristine iPhone 7 with no scratches on it. I think we have a six in there somewhere. I have some sort of like iconic phones that I'm saving. But a lot of them just go to the Pokemon Go farm upstate and they never return. That's so sad. like i'm picturing you know like when we first learned in wii sports that you could play like tennis just kind of sitting on the couch like flicking your wrist like oh but that kind of ruins the the image of this game again her argument is that she still has to go to like community day and do raids and blah blah blah but she's excited about like she's like if we get enough things then we can get a gym near the house then she can occupy the gym and defend it and do like she still goes out and does she's out doing pokemon stuff all the time so she is getting out of the house and doing it but apparently it's like well look at some point i am going to come home at some point i'm going to go to bed it would be great if i could spin stops from there and now she can and meanwhile like i'm sure that you know the the poke corporation or whatever is like this new pokestop has amazing loyalty and performance from these like 10 accounts that no one else goes there but these 10 accounts just love this place yeah it's not 10 accounts i think she's only got three maybe four i don't keep track gracious i mean i i briefly played pokemon go mostly at declan's insistence and i understood the draw in general i'm not sure i would have gotten to the point of carrying 34 phones simultaneously and trying to power 34 phones i don't know what does her charging situation look like at night i mean my word yeah there are it's one of the problems with our charging area she was just talking about you've seen one of those like docs that charges fleets of ipads for schools yeah we do it's like it's like um it's kind of like a what would you call like a dish rack where like you put the phone sideways into the thing uh we've had that for years and like it charges them slowly it's not a very fast charger but it's got a capacity for a lot of stuff um but she was just saying okay now that the kids are both gonna have usbc phones we can get rid of a lot of these lightning things she's like but just leave the long lightning ones because all the old lightning phones that she uses are like they don't fit in the slots they're off to the side so she uses the long cables to connect to the lightning ones and the short cables just go up to the devices so we're gonna have to do some recycling of our powering cables but rest assured we will still have plenty of lightning devices until all of the lightning devices age out uh slash die out from her pokemon fleet but we're a ways from that