A Family's Unexpected Path to Brand Success | AOAB w/ Ben Eggebrecht Episode 28

0:00Chris Cruz:What actually turns a side hustle into something that ends up in Times Square? Ben tells a story from the beginning. Before there was a brand, his wife Emily was building a skill set. Painting, making, tinkering. They sold at maker markets, rented desks, learned what people reached for and why. Then life changed the demand. Friends started getting engaged and the question shifted from, is it pretty to, can I trust you with this moment? That's where the brand grew up. Then the call every founder hopes for. custom necklace tomorrow morning for an album cover the real question isn't how they grew it's how they actually built it without losing their peace their family and their marriage if you're building something slowly and wondering if slow means you're losing listen closely this is episode 28 of anatomy of a brand i'm chris cruz and this is my conversation with ben egabrett the consider the wildflowers okay so this is this is the funny part of our story because because we saw each other randomly in Florida without knowing anything about each other.

0:59I completely forgot about that until just now.

1:02Chris Cruz:That is wild. For those that don't know anything, which would be everybody. It is funny because, so I've heard stories of when people from Nashville go to 30A, it's like a suburb of Nashville. For sure. 100%. And so it's like you see everyone who lives in Nashville goes on vacations there, and people have met people there that live near each other. Yeah. I was like, there's no way. Well, then I'm in the hallway of this Mexican restaurant at 38 and I see you walk by me and I'm like, this dude looks like I've seen him somewhere. I don't know where I've seen him from. I don't know where he's, but I think he lives in, I think he lives in Nashville.

1:35Chris Cruz:We don't talk to each other. Little do you know, I was having the same mental like dialogue. Yeah. Slash like being like, Emily, like, I know I know that guy. But I didn't. I love it. Yeah, we didn't know each other at all. No. No, no. But that's just Nashville. You're bringing all your boys in. Yeah. I've got my kids coming in. Yeah, my five. I'm like, oh, dude. You bring in your armada. I've got mine sitting at a table. And I'm like, I know that guy. I don't know where I know I'm from. But we'll get right back to the podcast in a second. We wanted to let you know about a product called The Blueprint, where we work with founders of brands to help them look at the next season of growth, where we look at the opportunities and the threats to their brand in a two-week sprint, where they answer questions we give them, and then we go do the work of research, and we give them back a blueprint for growth.

2:19Chris Cruz:They do minimal work, but then they get CMO level insights on their brand. If this is something you and your brand are interested in, then go to anatomyofabrand.co forward slash blueprint, or click the link in the description below. Now let's get back to the episode. So then fast forward, we're at an event at Todd Snyder, where I'm at this event and I go up to say hi to Steve Sauterholm, who is one of your best friends, who we had just become friends because he was on the podcast, Ranger Station, those of you that haven't listen to that episode seems a great episode so we i go talk to him and then you walk up and i'm like bro were you in 30a and it was just this moment and it clicked immediately i was like i know exactly and it was like it was the mexican slash italian play it's like somebody decided which is brilliant actually and the food yeah it was great yeah anyway i was down for it but then it was this moment of like oh snap like this is you this is it and then we ended up going to hang out afterwards yeah that's great that's awesome yeah so that that kind of brought me into what you do, which is consider the wildflowers is the company and the brand that you run.

3:22Chris Cruz:But what I wanted to ask you about as we start is a fun question. If you could not tell anybody what the product is, but you had to describe the company and what you do, how would you describe it? If you could not mention any of the details of what you do, how would you describe it? That's a great question. I would say we walk people through marking the most important milestones, memories, and experiences of their lives. Let's go. Yeah. That's what I would say, for sure. Is that always kind of like resonated with you or is that something that you've, over time, like that's gotten clearer? It's definitely gotten clearer as the company's grown to what it is.

4:00Chris Cruz:Yeah. Being primarily, well, being fine jewelry, essentially. Yeah. I mean, it started out, I don't know if you want to dive into that. I mean, yeah. Yeah, do it. I'll just go back to the beginning. I mean, my wife, I obviously credit her for - It's a crazy story. The beginning is - It's crazy. It's a dreamer story. So if anybody who's listening to this and like, hey, I'm like, I'm really thinking about starting a brand, but I have lots to think about and lots up against me or things like, can I actually do this? Your guys' story is one of those like, yeah, you can. Totally. Yeah. I mean, we met at Belmont in choir class.

4:34We both did music. We both wanted to do music like as a career. She wanted to maybe be like a music teacher, but she also kind of did the artist thing. So I would play shows with her. I would like my band like opened for her band. And Steve was in your band, right? And Steve was in my, and her band. So like we would always, it was like this thing.

4:50Chris Cruz:What was in the water at Belmont at that time? Yeah, dude, I mean, dude, honestly. You got Steve, Ranger Station, you consider wildflowers. And that is, that's a massive part of our brand story and other like Ranger Station. Yeah, exactly. There was this time in Nashville and at Belmont right on the cusp of the explosion of growth. And that was in, I mean, I moved here in 2009. so i mean there was i mean belmont was just it was like one square block and now it's like you know basically all of south south was nothing nothing i mean nothing not even i think frothy monkey was there 12 south tap room uh white's mercantile was legitimately a scary abandoned gas station you know and like you wouldn't you wouldn't really walk around at night um in 12 And now it's pretty much the complete opposite.

5:38Oh, yeah. But, yeah, I mean, that was such a special time. And, like, everybody was sort of pursuing music. But, obviously, there's only so far that certain people can take it without the funds, without being on a label at the time. I mean, now music's so, so different, you know, just with streaming and AI and everything else. But I think, you know, everybody had that sort of plan B. even if they said that they didn't they kind of they you know like everybody loved to say like i'm not going to throw in the towel like i don't have a plan i'm not going to sell out everybody kind of had a plan b a little bit and so uh emily kind of got to the point uh you know in 2013 we were about to graduate from belmont i was pursuing music hard like recording i did like this massive kickstarter to do this record um i was looking to tour yeah i toured um i had songs on tv and film It never got crazy enough to where like I was able to quit my barista or bartending job or whatever.

6:37But I mean, you sort of fast forward a little bit and Emily built this thing while I was pursuing music. I got to kind of sit on the sidelines and like I was there the whole time from inception to what it is today. And I can talk about how I got involved. But yeah, I mean, really, the company started because Emily came to this realization. she didn't want to do music anymore. She had stage fright. And it's like, if you have stage fright, you probably shouldn't be doing music. It's going to be tough. And so, you know, she's such a hard worker and she's so goal-oriented and always needs a plan. We had married at this time or no?

7:14No, no, no, we were dating. Okay. Like, freshly dating. Okay. Like, a few months, I think. We had known each other for a couple years. Okay. We were pretty freshly dating. And she started, like, she started kind of making greeting cards, like painting with watercolors and things like that um she started tinkering with antique flea market jewelry yeah just like really cheap stuff kind of repurposing um these pieces into necklaces using like leather uh i remember her going like home depot once and getting like a door hinge she's got this maker energy where she's just taking things like yeah revitalizing them moving them forward 100 take on them yeah but and she was also doing like flowers like she was saying yes to kind of everything, but, but everything she was doing was so, um, authentic and real and creative and, and played such a huge role.

8:05And I think the, uh, the story of Nashville at that time, like I said, like before the pop. Um, but yeah, I remember her coming up with the name too, uh, because at the time she was, like I said, she was doing flowers and she was maybe thinking of it being a greeting card company or something a little bit more, uh, visual art heavy. wow um and at the time you know consider the wild flowers is based on the bible verse luke 12 27 which is all about the lord's provision yeah and um if the lord like i didn't know that's where it came from yeah yeah if the load if the lord clothes the flowers of the field as he does with those colors and as fleeting as flowers may be uh like think about how much more he cares for a human being okay and their story gotcha so yeah she was just kind of concerned about the future what she was going to do now i mean she had been doing music for so long and so you know taking this sort of left turn was a little scary so that's sort of where the name came from was just like i'm going to trust and just kind of go for it and then jewelry how does jewelry get into

9:07Chris Cruz:the equation how do you know like like the leap between like i'm making flower arrangements and all this to making yeah fine jewelry yeah yeah well it was slow and steady man like i mean it started with not real gold it started with like gold filled stuff um she taught herself how to solder at fort houston which has since moved but now it's where soho house is like she she used to rent a desk for probably 200 a month at a fort houston which is now where the soho house pool is like where the pool is now was where she would be sitting sweating no ac no heat in the winter like i mean it was wild with all these other makers in nashville okay and so um you know i I would hang out there a bunch too.

9:48And the culture was just so like encouraging, so communal. Everybody was, everything was a little bit like less expensive too. So like makers could afford to rent a desk in Wedgwood, Houston, you know, around all these other makers. It's not possible anymore. But yeah, I mean, she initially didn't even want to own her own company. she started doing this to basically create a resume for herself to pitch herself to like the Warby Parkers or, uh, you know, other, other fashion, other, uh, philanthropic sort of fashion companies.

10:24Chris Cruz:So she's going, I'm going to refine my skillset to make me be so desirable for one of these other companies, not knowing she's building the foundation for what will be this kind of accidentally. Yeah. And so, yeah, it started with the repurpose stuff. Um, and, and she, she started posting these pieces on instagram before there were ads on instagram before you know when there was just like the nashville filter and like five of the filters and so she she came out with this line of i think like maybe 20 one-of-a-kind pieces and friends and family kind of ate it up and loved it and uh i mean after that baby step by baby step in terms of the pieces in terms of the locations the studio spaces the number of team members was the was there a was of like okay we're consistently getting work with this this brand is growing where people are buying our jewelry where were you first selling it like where was it was it maker markets yes yeah yeah exactly and i'm i had almost even forgotten but we didn't have a retail store for like a number of years okay so she would go to like renegade craft fair okay or uh porter flea here in town and those were huge successes for her like she would do she did a renegade in brooklyn i think okay and i think and one in like portland so like on each coast and i think a huge encouragement for her was like seeing these people in these other cities that were not just any city i mean this was like brooklyn and portland yeah um coming up to her table and being like you're doing something really cool that's cool and it still wasn't quite yeah yeah it affirmed it and it still wasn't quite fine jewelry and so when it got to that point was when we essentially i mean we were in our mid-20s at this point maybe you know three four years into the business when all of our other friends were at the age alongside us where they were getting engaged and married and they didn't necessarily want to go to uh you know a big box store yeah they didn't know who to trust necessarily um you know they didn't always live in nashville so they didn't have like that their family jeweler who their grandparents went to parents went to and everything for their bridal jewelry and so they started asking Emily and uh you know one yes turned into wow like thousands of you know like awesome yeah it's it's wild it's wild okay is there so the process you're going to these these maker markets is happening renegade portafelis all these happening is there a moment where stuff changes and then you go to the retail which is the fun story of retail for y 'all is your first location now serves what we can get into it serves for the location of another brand national that's awesome oh yeah and so yeah the but you you had this process was there hey we're going to take the leap in retail and we're going to see how this goes or was there like dang this is a moment we got a ton of traction from this moment makes sense now let's also go to retail what was that it was slow i wish it was that easy dude yeah like our first retail space was essentially like a pseudo retail space within a studio okay and that's kind of what it was for the first few years we had a we had a spot in a warehouse in berry hill that had a little room in the front that was like our retail store oh wow and we just hoped somebody was you know up front if somebody yeah if somebody's walking but but nobody walked by there ever i'm like in my brain i'm going where yeah but but where we started to see traction was people would uber to like this random warehouse and like come shop because they like loved the brand so much from instagram and so that's when it really you know started to feel real and like something more and then we were in a hundred taylor uh over in germantown okay uh and shared it with uh like a ceramicist shared this big room with a ceramicist and a couple and i think a florist um and so people just walk into that studio and sort of like buy from us so it was very like pseudo retail until we had a spot in north nashville and we can an arts district okay where we truly did like a build out okay you know and that was the first build out you did that was the first one we did Is that where some of the, from after that first build out, where some of those, because now you started to gain a name for yourself, traction both on Instagram and locally, you're gaining this traction with the brand.

14:26Chris Cruz:And then you had some people reach out to you, some people that, some celebrities. Did that happen before the retail or after the retail? When does that sit into the story? Oh, that's a good question. We definitely worked with higher profile clients before the retail space. But there were very, I would say, A-list celebrities, like a couple who came into that Buchanan Arts District store, and we were all just blown away. Wow. So tell me a story of when the brand shifted to going from like, all right, we have, not that this matters in the way of meaning, but in the sense of notoriety to where it would get to an A-list actor or musician or artist.

15:10Chris Cruz:Tell me a story that kind of shifted some of that for you all. Like tell me, I know you've talked to me a little bit about some of them, but. Like what positioned us to get in front of these people? Yeah. Like what positioned you to get and what that experience was like? Like how did you handle that? Because there's two things people are longing to do, right? To get in front of the right people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then when they get in front of the right people, not fall on their face. Yeah. So there's these two elements that people who are building brands are like, if I could just get in front of this person.

15:33Chris Cruz:And then if I can just get in front of this person, I don't want to mess up. How did you guys get in front of the right people? And then what did you do when you got there? Well, I think that came naturally just based on Emily's designs and creativity and the way we treated people. Okay. I have a hospitality background. I love experiences. I grew up, you know, my parents like loved going to nice restaurants. And I would always like hear my parents, especially my dad, like comment on the service that we were given. That's awesome. You know? And if there was, if like the service was exceptional, like, you know, my sister and I just like knew it.

16:05We were like, yeah, that was really different because of how they treated our family, you know, at this restaurant. And so I've carried that along the way. And I think that has allowed us to, like you said, like not fall flat on our face when we are presented with those situations. Yeah.

16:18Chris Cruz:Hospitality became the strength for you to handle those relationships. Yes. And we've implemented that like amongst our team, too. So our team, I mean, we were very obviously careful about who we hire. But, you know, I think, you know, when people like that come into our store, people who may not feel comfortable going to the mall or something, you know, they feel comfortable. They feel like they can be themselves. I feel like our team is really good about treating people like human beings. Because this is an important moment for them. There's lots of anxiety. there's lots of like coming in for a fine jewelry moment whether it's an engagement or yeah uh there's all the different layers of you can get engagement you can get remarried you can get all these different reasons celebrating of a major milestone like you said you're coming with some some energy of like i'm nervous about this purchase because they're not little purchases for sure in meaning and in cost they they they hit the bank for sure they i i think too like a big draw for us is that we are a local company especially in you know 2026 all these companies are moving here to open, you know, 20, number 20 flagship or number, you know, whatever.

17:28Yeah. Yeah.

17:29Chris Cruz:They're playing their flag on 12 South. They're like, Lilabo's coming in going, we're going to try to get into this market. Yeah. And it's great. It's exciting for us. But I think what carries us is, it's very clear to tell when you walk into our store that we are a, you know, we're a family owned, very authentic Nashville business. I mean, our storefront now is in what used to be a coffee shop that my wife and I, uh, that Emily and I would, would like just go to coffee meetings at Edge Hill cafe. It was like the corner building. The coffee was great. It was awesome, dude. Thank you. Thank you.

18:02Chris Cruz:When I went and met up with you that day there, I was like, this is incredible. Thanks. Yeah. It's so stunning. And so you've, you, you guys, um, you had a Kelsey ballerini moment. Yeah. Some, what happened there? How did that happen? Yeah. That sort of thing is huge for a brand that's bootstrapping it. You know, just, just, uh, even if it doesn't translate immediately to, you know, all these sales, it's about just like brand recognition and like people knowing they can trust you. So what happened there was, uh, we, we were at our store for our first like true flag. We've, we've moved so many times.

18:33I call it our first like true flagship. Cause it felt sort of like the, the adult lease, like the first like big boy lease with the big build out and everything so we were in east nashville and across the street there was a there was a brewery uh emily and i were like grabbing dinner there and she got a text uh from i think it was just from kelsey stylist or something saying like hey we're doing a photo shoot tomorrow for an album cover we need a necklace like tomorrow morning by i don't know a custom necklace that like says kelsey like written like in gold and she sent like a couple like inspiration photos and everything and we're like y 'all know you know and and emily's the maker i'm more like the marketing so immediately i'm like let's go this is amazing because i'm always like you tell you tell my team like i'm always the one who's like yeah let's do it we gotta do it because like i don't think about the the guard rails that are in place um i love it but yeah i mean she was you know she obviously was like yeah i mean i i have to somehow make this happen and we had jewelers on staff at the time but it was after hours i think it was probably like i don't know i think we closed at like five and so it was maybe like six six thirty and she was like i gotta go back to the store and like make this necklace so she got like a sheet of gold and like saw chelsea in like cursive

19:53Chris Cruz:with her like bare hands oh my gosh um i don't even know how long it took her but yeah then delivered the necklace next i think that the next morning and uh let's come to find out you know that sort of thing you know we've had a lot of things like that where it just didn't pan out yeah it's kind of like ah that's a bummer like you know nothing really surprises anymore it's like if it works out it's great if not whatever but uh i don't remember how long it took but eventually like she released this single or something with the artwork of her wearing the necklace and we noticed it and like her that portrait was like on like a billboard in time square yeah like the you know the corner whatever that billboard is like the main one and she's like wearing the necklace.

20:33Chris Cruz:So that was a cool moment. That is really cool. All right. So I want to, I want to turn us in a direction, um, here and ask you a couple more, like deeper dives to the personal side of you and the position you're in now. So you have the journey. I want to, I want to lay out what I, what I'm assuming is the process or from the outside looking in you have, your wife is going through this process. She makes these products. She's making them, making them, making them. You guys are in this business together. Were you always at this spot of, I am pushing the brand forward? Or was she like, I love making stuff.

21:05Chris Cruz:You love selling stuff. Like, how does the dynamic go to where you're in your position the way you are and she's in the position she is and you guys are doing it healthy together? Dude. Do you want me to get a therapist in here? No, that's it. Dude, for real. Are you certified? Are you certified? Oh, we're getting my first blanket here. You might as well be, man. I'm sure with the conversations you have. But man, I feel like we've always been about slow and intentional growth um i think that serves our clients the best it serves our product the best um growing too fast i think i think we've always had a lot of great advisors around us too who have like told us to slow yeah like chill out or go faster is that against your nature like no fight that emily it's against emily's nature my nature is let's let's go for the moon not because not because I want to sell the company or or open 100 stores but because I just love experiences like I love I love traveling and I love like I love meeting people I love uh creating spaces for people um the design element the hospitality element like everything I mean when I walk into our store every day I like I mean my team probably thinks I'm crazy I probably annoy it like the crap out of them but like i'll i'll like find the dust the one dust bunny you know that's in the store i just like love i love that kind of stuff i love creating excellent experiences for people especially when they're coming in for something so meaningful yeah but no emily has always been like just super creative and obviously yeah it started with her making things with her hands like it was very much like um i mean she's still like now she's getting into gardening like she's always like getting into something yeah like painting gardening like whatever and so um jewelry just happened to be the thing that stuck but no i mean it was never her intent to make this thing explode or build this thing as a brand i think um honestly i i attribute a lot of the brand growth to the customers themselves okay to word of mouth and to um i mean sure i think we put great team members in place and with my experience and i used to work in marketing and music as well alongside doing my own music um at a record label and so with like that experience and emily's just taste overall taste and vision and uh her goal-oriented sort of personality um there was a dynamic of you two together that made this like you were not like yin and yang but almost yeah yeah kind of you were the balance and the tension of each other it sounds like and and with her being a little more risk averse and me being the opposite that sort of like balanced itself perfectly to the point where we could grow sustainably without us both like going off the rails or being too scared yes right right right so then at what point okay so you're you're in this journey right because you've got you said you have five boys is that right we have four boys and one girl baby girl finally got a baby girl she's my little buddy dude yeah oh my god i got three and i can't even imagine going to four then let alone going to five um that journey of working mother, that process, you stepping in, have you, have you, has your roles in the company changed?

24:14Chris Cruz:And how has that changed? A hundred percent, yes. And what does it look like now? Like, what has that been like? So I'm, now I'm CEO as of a couple of years ago, I would say. I mean, I've been, I would say I've been, I've been involved the whole time. Right, right, right. I mean, from early days of like packaging orders and stuff like that to, yeah, it started very small because I was still pursuing other things. um during covid our business actually like grew a ton a lot of people were buying luxury during covid a lot of people were uh eloping or doing small weddings so they had more money to spend on that's just one of my things more money to spend on rings yeah or you know online shopping and so uh despite covid that year it's weird it's like the music industry got really weird that year because nobody was touring anymore.

25:03And I was like trying to start a new music project. And it was just like, this might not be the time for that.

25:10Chris Cruz:But while I was doing that new, like recording those new songs and like planning touring and everything, our, you know, Consider the Wildflowers was kind of exploding. Wow. And so I sort of needed to step in at least to a degree and help. So mainly that was always like marketing. um you know i i spent time on the sales floor i kind of did everything i wore so many hats for so long which i think led to me a couple years ago being in the place where i could be ceo and i think that change was um i think it was necessary and i think it was uh i think it was it was best for all parties involved in terms of the team and emily and myself because we we essentially like our business coach and i and emily we spoke we were like we need to get emily in the lane that she loves the most and what is that that's creating uh designing telling stories coming up with new collections uh discovering things that she like you know she'll go to trade shows and like fall in fall in love with like a vintage piece that'll inspire like very cool a whole another collection yeah or something um whereas with me like i have appreciation for jewelry for sure i've always loved fashion yeah i love accessories i i mean i i love gold is the only thing that you can wear that you can you can't pass down a t-shirt that you're i mean you you can but it's it's gonna be it's a little weird yeah it's gonna be different it's gonna be different um and so i've fallen in love with it more than i ever even thought possible but um but yeah i think me being in the ceo role just after like being there from the inception to you know being through all the highs i mean there have been so many highs and lows and roller coasters and yeah the tornado almost took our storefront out and that was two weeks before covid hit so it was like i remember that week we were like we're talking about literal tornado here people know literal tornado dude i mean like i think the only reason our storefront uh survived was because it was it was in a newer building because everything around us was just like flat completely flattened so that week right after after the tornado little did we know in two weeks covid would hit um but uh i had to like go find the last in-stock generator in town uh and like pulled it up to our store because we didn't have power and like clients were still like coming in that like two days after the tornado because they were traveling from out of town to look at engagement rings and like diamonds that we had sourced for them and stuff and so it's honestly through experiences like that i mean we get into financials p &ls all the nitty-gritty stuff of like you know the the ops world and hr but i mean i i truly think experiences like that of of finding like the seemingly one last in-stock generator so like keep our and it was for our clients yeah like if it weren't for our clients saying like no we'd still love to meet you know like we're coming from out of town we're getting married into yeah whatever um it's things like that that i think make a ceo a ceo so you know because you oftentimes again think about all the other hr stuff all the numbers but dude that's it's so human it's so human you just have to be empathetic and understanding especially of of clientele so in the process of going through the journey emily finding the lane she loves and flourishes in you finding the lane that you love and flourish and thrive in what have you had to let go of in your mind to be great at building this brand now?

28:38Chris Cruz:What are some of the things you're like, dude, I had to let go of this so I could be better at this. Like, what were some things you evolved in as a CEO of a brand leading a brand forward? Like what's, what's some of that for you? Yeah. I mean, I, I, I hate to say this because it almost feels, uh, contradictory, but like perfectionism. Yeah. You've had to let go of perfection. Yes. Yeah. Yes. How did it show up? how did it show up that you're like man i gotta fix this well i was just spending on i was spending time on things that i think didn't ultimately matter and and i still struggle with that a ton because i'm like saying that and i'm like writhing um but i think i think there's a balance obviously excellence is super important for what we do yeah excellence in the problem and when i talk about it there is a precision yes and and i'm not really talking about product here products I'm like, if it's not excellent, it is not leaving our building until it is perfect for our clients.

29:41But I'm talking about like, you know, certain marketing assets or photos or what the homepage hero image is or what the copy is, you know, et cetera, et cetera. There's things that you're like, I'm seeing this. Dude, I see it's a blessing and a curse. It's kind of like what I was talking about with the storefront. Like I see the one dust bunny and I ignore, uh, you know, all the beautiful things in our store. It's kind of like that Larry David story, you know, that Larry David story where he like threw the first pitch at a Yankees game. Okay. And like everybody cheered, whatever. And when he was leaving, he was driving away and somebody was like, you suck Larry or something.

30:16And he was like, that's all I remember from that night. I think it was Larry David. Wow. You could fact check it. But, uh, you know, just things like that. It's like, you always remember that one negative thing. But I think for me, it's been about like stepping back, looking at the big picture, hearing client stories, listening to why they're buying a certain piece. I mean, a lot of times it's really heavy. It's like they just lost, you know, a child or or the complete opposite. They're having a child. Like it's it's crazy. Our sales manager often says she feels like a therapist in meetings because it's it gets that, you know, which speaks to the ethos and the culture you're building.

30:53Chris Cruz:right when you're when your sales people feel like therapists it means they're leaning into the human element yes it means that they're seeing people for people and not potential just sales going oh this person's coming in we should all right we're going to sell them sell them sell them you're like you're listening you're leaning yes which brings me back to the perfectionism thing like you don't have to be perfect to be a like a good understanding human being who just wants to serve someone um and so that's what we try to lean into more than like everything else As much as it pains me to say, like, ah, you know, like, we can hold back on, like, maybe that campaign shoot.

31:27Or, like, instead of that, let's, like, let's invest in something that's truly customer-facing.

31:34Chris Cruz:So do you, if you had to talk to your entrepreneur self about your perfectionism, how would you coach yourself? If you're like, man, this is the self-talk I've got to give, like, but what would you say to yourself about your perfectionism? and how to impact people and what to do about it? Like, what are you learning? I think I would tell myself to, or I should tell myself, to be a perfectionist about what you love doing within the scope of your work. Yeah. But everything else you can like relax a little bit, if that makes sense. So like, I love, I mean, I love design. I love photo shoots. Very specific photo.

32:21Like we're about to launch a new collection. I won't talk about it right now. But I'm like so excited about the visual that I'm creating in my mind for this photo shoot and this video campaign. And I think it's okay to be a perfectionist about that. Because I'm so fired up about it. Like I want it to be great and it deserves to be great. But when it comes to other little things like the dust bunnies or – and I'm not saying clean. isn't important. But do you know what I'm saying? Like you just, you gotta relax a little bit. You're weighing where your highest, best use is. There's a balance.

32:56Chris Cruz:And there's a balance between all that. Yeah. Okay. So I have an interesting question for you because you have so many kids in your clan. You have the energy of be a dad, be running a company. Like what is the thing you tell your kids about what you do? Like how do you talk to them about the work you do? Yeah. Yeah. It's been fun bringing them to the, to the store. Like they know we own a store. Okay. They go back in the studio. All the football stuff I see them doing. They're the best. Dude, they're so freaking cute. They're the best. They're the reason Emily and I do it, honestly. But yeah, they know.

33:32I think they're really starting to understand. Our oldest is six. Our youngest is one. She obviously doesn't understand, but she's the only girl, so she's going to really understand that we're in jewelry sooner than later.