How to Know if You're Content is Really Failing

0:00Chris Cruz:If you're trying to grow a brand today, you know content is just about everything. And you are wondering, is it even working? You're exhausted trying it over and over again. You see all the different things you need to do. You see all the workshops. You've done them. Is my content actually making a difference? And you have these secret questions. Am I failing? Are the numbers really showing that I'm good enough at this? Do I have what it takes? Is my business going to grow if I keep doing this? And that's what we dive into in this episode. This is Anatomy of a Brand, where every week I talk with people shaping culture.

0:28Chris Cruz:founders marketers entrepreneurs and creatives and if you're one of those subscribe to never miss a conversation this is episode 22 with our very own team behind everything we do over the course of the last four months we've created 200 some odd pieces of content for the different channels that we are on which if you average that out over the course of the time that we've been doing it that's roughly like two posts a day for four months which is a lot of work yeah that doesn't Two posts a day doesn't sound like a lot, but every day, yeah, it's pretty crazy when you think about it like that. So we've been in the trenches, and we want to kind of soberly look at what a lot of entrepreneurs face.

1:09Chris Cruz:They get into the content game because they know that's how you move the needle. And they've been told that, they listen to that, they hear that, and they're not wrong. But they're in this going, is this working? Am I wasting time? Am I failing and not admitting it? why are the numbers small and we're going to talk about it from the perspective of the accounts we've been building ourselves because those accounts have honest numbers that aren't gigantic they're not huge we we're not looking at high levels of virality but we are asking ourselves regularly and assessing it looking at the data and saying are we failing is this even working and is this even doing what it needs to be doing because we We are putting a lot of energy into this.

1:55Chris Cruz:So I think a lot of entrepreneurs are asking that same question, and they're not getting viral results. We're not getting viral results. But the question is, are we getting results? And what is the measure of success? Correct. I think that's the core question. What is the measure of success? Yeah. Yeah, I think it's, are we quote-unquote failing over those last four months? because we haven't, we've been posting twice, you know, on average, twice a day for four months and have only garnered, you know, 200 from, from a social media, just looking at where these posts are landing, you know, a total of 700 followers between YouTube and Instagram.

2:38Um, is that a failure? Yeah. Well, and then it's, for me, my thought goes to, well, we've started four months ago and we've posted over 200 pieces of content which is actually again like we said quite impressive and i think the thing that a lot of entrepreneurs or even founders face is this idea that when you first start something's going to automatically just take off and i would say they've done the workshops they've done the things they've been part of the cohorts yeah they've written down

3:08Chris Cruz:hook opening hook three seconds visual hook this they they have all the knowledge and tactics yeah they've been doing that well and that's us too yeah but that's the thing is I think entrepreneurship is a marathon and so many people I think hit walls or have these expectations but don't actually recognize like hey this is a long game like this is a consistent game this is and I think for us like we are seeing exponential increase and the things in what way so like let's clarify that I think that's a really good I think that's a good statement but what are you classifying as exponential increase because in the eyes of some other accounts it's like it's we're not getting the increase that we that looks like it on social media the way that some would expect with our production value like you see the level of production that Coupa has created it's so high and the quality is so good yeah when you say exponential growth what do you mean when you say that I think I'm just looking at how we're steadily increasing like we are steadily steadily grabbing more and more audience we are steadily refining our clarity articulation we're having so much fun creating content we're spinning things out and we are steadily finding deeper engagement we are steadily finding more and more followers and subscribers on YouTube but the thing is is it's a it's kind of the turtle wins the race we're not experiencing the you know viral takeoff But I think that begs the question, too, of like, does virality always equal substance?

4:40Chris Cruz:And or in this case, like what you're saying, even the growth we're talking about here is not monetary in that regard. What you're saying, which I love, I'm not saying that's a wrong perspective. And even virality, we know people who are very viral have taken off and some of them it converts to sales and they have figured out how to close that. And others, they've built an audience that they actually don't know how to convert that into some kind of economic means. So they're creating content. So they're getting in lots and lots of eyeballs on their stuff, but they haven't actually seen how that turns into money yet.

5:13Chris Cruz:And so where I see our growth is we have a different little perspective here because we are seeing revenue come in and we've leveraged social media a little bit differently than the average entrepreneur that's quickly going to like, all right, I'm not selling online and it's not working. So they might say, I have growing numbers, but am I growing in revenue? And that's because that's why they started, right? They're doing it because they want to leverage a personal brand or leverage a brand towards revenue. I think that's part of it. It's not the entirety of it, which we'll get to because we know that that's when you go into it with only that paradigm is actually going to make it difficult to keep going.

5:53Chris Cruz:So I think we have to ask ourselves, like, what has been our goal? If we could articulate our goal as people who aren't seeing millions of views on our stuff, how would you guys articulate our goal around content and why we're doing it? We've been in multiple meetings, most of our meetings, and multiple conversations. Somebody like a friend, you know, a past friend who, whatever. a lot of the time when we have a whether it's a hot lead or a potential client not i mean i would say 90 of them bring up our content um i've been in multiple conversations of people who don't follow our account don't fall i mean don't even really close followers brother they're the ones that just look they don't do anything and they're they say something along the lines of how much they love what we're doing or are seeing the content but the followers aren't necessarily there at the but what i'm getting at is awareness the content is bringing awareness to the clients we want to work with the clients we don't want to work like the with with the community around us or not even in nashville it's it's an awareness play that we've known since the beginning.

7:15Chris Cruz:Because we're a newly formed agency. Right. We all have freelance experience. We're a newly formed agency. So awareness of us, period. Yeah. Not even of our services. Yeah. Awareness that we're on the map. Do people, and that's the top of the like traditional funnel is do people know you and know your services? Like do the know our services is the second part that we got to work on probably a little bit. If there's something that we have to, we're critical about is know our, knowing our services, but awareness. Do they know of us? are we in their minds when they think about brand work especially in Nashville what do you think about the goal Michaela oh the thing I'm thinking through is I think one of the things that how I would even say who we are we're people that like to break the status quo and I think in all of our content we just have such a creative edge and scrappiness to us and you see it bleed through our content where we just when we most come alive is after our conversations where we're diving and creating content and we're thinking through how can we do something that's never been done before how can we push the bounds on something and I think that that's why you're seeing it in our content engine the thing that I'm thinking through in the back of my head and I think maybe this would resonate with other entrepreneurs and founders who are also going and chasing after content etc is when you aren't seeing the numbers hit the way you want it hits that insecure point oh yeah at what point do you refine do you change or do you keep just digging in dig your hills in like uh and i think for us we're kind of having this moment where we're talking through like okay well what's the goal yeah like and i think that's the going back to what is the goal i think when an entrepreneur goes to content which we refer to a little bit more or a brand goes immediately to content and they go all the way through the funnel quick to action and conversion and revenue.

9:05Chris Cruz:When they go right to that, they get exhausted. They're like, I'm not seeing the results. They're not coming in. My numbers aren't even showing up. Like I'm not seeing the numbers and I'm not converting. I think when you have to reestablish what are the right metrics for where you are right now and what you're trying to do. For us, for an example, when we said, we know we're in it for the long game and the long game is to create the system that will sustain content, which was the content engine going, we are going to develop a content engine first for awareness because people don't know who we are and our skill sets, what we're capable of.

9:35Chris Cruz:We didn't want to go around. We didn't want to do the route that was like show only our portfolio of work that we've done so that people can see our logos we've designed, our video work we've done, our photos we've taken. We didn't want to go that route. We felt like in order to disrupt the space and get into the minds of people quicker and faster, it was create our own original content that showcases how we think, that showcases our approach to brand that showcases our creativity and our skill set in a way that isn't saying, look at the work we've done, but in a way that says, here's some value and it's something for you to engage in.

10:10Chris Cruz:And in that process, we've had two ways that prospects come into us. One would be through, like you're saying, they're DMing our account. They're going, hey, I've had the DMs come in. We've had our account DMs come in where people are like, hey, do you guys do this? And they've kind of caught on that there's something that they can get. The other one is, we're, I think when you rely only on content, that's a problem. We're all still in the sales process of reaching out to leads, having coffees, having lunch, talking to them. And when they're looking for confidence in our work, we're sending them to the YouTube.

10:42Chris Cruz:We're sending them to the brand account on Instagram. And they're seeing that and going, oh, they see the podcast. They see the people that are on the podcast. They associate those level of expertise and success with us and that actually breeds confidence and trust in us so the content works twofold both in exploration they find us on our content and we leverage our content and conversations to build our authority and our credibility they see it and they look back it's like when restaurants when you go to a city people are looking on social media to pick their restaurants and i think we're leveraging it in a similar fashion going we're going to leverage our account for when you're curious about this we show up like that and we can show you hey check these guys out this is what they do it's it's something like that for us because i think the can the journey of awareness do people know us this is the most basic so let me just for for people who are i'm like this is so basic that it's almost it feels like they might be like oh my god yeah we even had comments on there you sound you make yourself sound like you're profound when you're saying the normal stuff because people don't do it if if people did the normal stuff they'd have success but they don't do it.

11:46Chris Cruz:So do people know you? Do they have a desire? This is just going down the normal awareness, intention, decision, action. Do people know you? Do they have a desire or an intention to use what you have? And have they begun to get over the hump needing and just going like, all right, I'm ready to do this. I need to take action. And do they have that action ready? Like that awareness, intention, decision, action, that process is super easy to go. All right, Where are we at? Are we aware? Are we nurturing? And are we converting? You should be doing all of those at the same time with content. And it takes time.

12:24It takes time.

12:24Chris Cruz:And the numbers rarely reflect your success in that. At least in our case, we're showing we're not getting thousands and thousands of views, but we're still able to leverage all three of those things, awareness, nurture, and convert. All those things are happening. And we, yeah, we are seeing, and that goes back to the main question of like, what is the measure of success? Because if you say the virality is just followers and followers is, and then also at the same time, I mean, I think that's a cultural thing of like, to have that expectation even to hit, uh, you know, whatever the virality expectation is of 20 ,000 followers within four months.

13:04Right. Like, where is that coming from? Oh, totally. But how many who start different businesses or et cetera are finding that? And I think going back to what you even just said, it almost feels like this hump. How do you get over this hump? And then when you hit that wall as a creator, how do you keep refining and get through it? Because there's a part of you that might want to go introspective. Like, what am I doing wrong? Totally. Like, is this worth it? and then also if we bring in the algorithm, that thing is changing every five seconds. And then, you know.

13:41Chris Cruz:I think it's also getting clear on business objectives. Yeah. Understanding what are your business objectives. Not just am I growing in the marketing funnel reality and my awareness, nurture, convert or awareness, intention, decision, action. Am I actually clear on what my objectives are? If I'm not clear on what my business objectives are, I don't know how my marketing or content is succeeding or not succeeding because I don't know even my own objectives. And so we've worked with brands where the main objective is brand awareness. Yeah. It is not actually sales. We're trying to take a quiet account that doesn't have the momentum it wants or should have because it's gone quiet for a little bit.

14:20Chris Cruz:And we're reinvigorating it with content to build that. And we've seen great growth with that. Yeah. More growth than ours. Yeah. And so it's like. It's kind of unfair. Yeah. What the heck? what the heck man and they're they're getting traction but theirs was an awareness play yeah and but then another another company we worked on we did content for them it was their business objectives were more around community building but in the sense of like we want people to know in the community tell your story yeah tell the story of what our brand is doing in the community yeah and how are we doing that how we then it was less of do we think this is going to move the needle on selling more coffee so it was a coffee company and it was going do we think this is going to move the needle on selling more coffee probably not immediately will it build affinity for you so that you can become a choice when they're in need of coffee yes and that's what i think people forget about content yeah is you're getting in their minds not when they need it when they are needing it they remember you and content does that yeah so i think if you lose sight of that you lose the game too yeah we've we've had multiple discussions with clients where it's like and not to give us an excuse of like oh don't expect us to make but like our our social media video that isn't that video isn't directly going to lead to sales but it is just that awareness of like you're an option whatever keeping you in the zeitgeist of people's minds like yes this video like we try to like again not to give an excuse like our content doesn't need to whatever but yeah like when we're not viral so therefore we say hey we kind of makes it I know what you're saying you almost can almost say to yourself like um you don't need to be viral because we don't have the skill set to make it viral where it's like okay yeah we haven't had a viral video so we don't promise it yeah exactly it's like i don't want to give us that caveat but it is just like just understand that just because this video isn't popping off or these set of videos or this month of content that you're making isn't blowing up that doesn't mean that that isn't directly relating to sales or that's not meaningful and i think ours is before we get into the meaningful part i think that one thing that's there is we are proof of that yeah where we sell them so they're We're like, hey, we're not getting the virality you think you need to convert, but we are probably doing more revenue than some of the people you know of that are trying to do it like that.

16:35Chris Cruz:And we're growing well and we're doing well. And we're on track to hit our larger financial targets where we're like, we're doing the right revenue. And it's coming through a multiple prong approach. We're relying solely on content, but we leverage it like nobody's business. but that's why we can go to conversations and say we can't promise you virality but we do believe we can help you with revenue on the long term and we can promise you substance and value which I think virality and substance and value are not always equated we've seen those ones that go people do viral dances and you're like this feels so inauthentic it's crazy and it's not carrying weight we care about what carries substance, value, meaning weight is it going to impact people on the way they think and live their life even if it's making them feel better about themselves for buying a cup of coffee.

17:25Which brings me back to maybe what you just said, Coop, of, you know, hey, if you aren't seeing the numbers, like, it doesn't mean that it's not, like, affecting something. Which brings me to, like, for the entrepreneur or the founder that maybe is watching this, maybe if you aren't seeing the numbers, that isn't a call to not refine and maybe grow in excellence in whatever area.

17:43Chris Cruz:We've looked at the data and said, we've got to kill this show. It's not working. And what you said, pulling the curtain back and getting really clear on your business objectives. and if, because maybe what if your client's a little scattered, like there's necessary means of being consistent, being excellent that will help grow your business. Yeah. Period. But at the same time, the numbers, like it's so. They don't always tell the full story. They don't tell the full story. And what you're doing matters. And it matters to keep going. Yeah. It matters to keep going. It matters to keep going. Yeah.

18:14Chris Cruz:And I think what we also get lost on is people see, um, uh, we, and I know these accounts that they do a high level of virality and that then does equal $150 ,000 in sales. It's a supplement. That product was$30. I think, so I was having this conversation with another brand and we were talking and they were talking about how they've been doubling down on content. They're like, we're doing it. It is not moving the needle. It is moving the needle on awareness. But I'm also going, you have to understand so they were admitting it's growing awareness, getting us in the zeitgeist again, bringing us back in the conversation.

18:49Chris Cruz:we got out of the conversation in our industry, we're getting back in the conversation of our industry, which I think is a win. I don't think the only metric is revenue or the only metric is virality, but getting yourself back in the conversation for your industry is one. But in that conversation, I was talking with him and we were saying, well, also look at the price point of your product that you're hoping to convert people to and the sales cycles for products like that. Well, if you're selling a$12 product, that sales cycle is so small. It's unbelievably small. If you're selling a$20 product, a$30 product, a$50 product, the sales cycle and the amount of nurturing you need to do to convert somebody on a$20 item that they buy without even thinking.

19:30Chris Cruz:Yeah, okay, cool. I bought the latest hydration packet because I saw that hydration packet cost me$20. You're trying to sell somebody a mastermind for$4 ,000. That's going to take a lot more nurturing and the sales cycle is going to take a lot longer. And so I think when you think about content, you have to also think about the sales cycle and the price point of what you're selling, which is why for us, we know content leads into our sales process. It's not the thing that converts people immediately. It leads to the trust and the relationship to then we've got to close deals. We don't close deals via DM.

19:59Chris Cruz:No, like we open the conversation and then we close them later on. So it's recognizing your sales cycle, your price point impacts how revenue is going to come in through content. And a lot of people see these really popular voices who are talking, who are items that are$50,$70, a very different content strategy than someone who is nurturing for a product that is wildly different. An example would be there's a guy online that makes content around selling Mercedes, leasing them, buying them. His game plan is to go, I need to make you as so sharp around leasing and buying a Mercedes. Will you buy it with me?

20:39Chris Cruz:Maybe not. Or you might just work your butt off to get to buy it from me. Either way, he's in their mind around everything regarding buying a Mercedes or leasing a Mercedes. And there's other people who do it for airline, like Amalfi Jets, the content strategy they have there for products that are 70 ,000, 80 ,000, $100 ,000. Their content is going, we're not going to convert here. We're going to convert later on. But let me walk through a couple of things and then we'll give some of our closing thoughts here around our content specifically. And I love to, if there's anything we want to pull back the curtain a little bit more on to give even people a better view, like throw it out there.

21:18Chris Cruz:So a couple of things to think about when you're going into how we looked at marketing and looking at content when we started to build our content engine and what we started to measure as success or our process. And this is the same thing we do with brands. We don't work from what is creative first. We don't go, what's a cool creative idea? What we do is, okay, what are we trying to get people to do? So conversion, what is the action we want people to take? The channel, next. Where are you trying to find them to convert them? Targeting, who are you trying to get to do that? Sometimes people change the order, but honestly, I think sometimes you have to work from what action you want them to take, then what channel you're going to do it on, then who are you going to actually try to get to do that?

21:58Chris Cruz:Then creative, what are you showing them to convince them to take that action? Creative is usually the second thing, the third thing we talk with them about. We get aligned on business objectives where they want to grow their company. We don't go, hey, we're just creative deliverables and we just create stuff for you to execute. And we just execute for you guys. We just make cool stuff. We're like, no, no, no. We're actually growth partners for you. And what's your business objectives? Because we could actually tell you what creative we think will lead to getting you there. We're not just going to go, we're not a hammer.

22:27Chris Cruz:Everything's a nail. We're not going to say content, content, content for a company we worked with that looks and projecting close to a doubling of revenue in the millions. that we worked with, we didn't even talk about content with them. We did a totally different thing, positioning, strategy, web development, because their industry worked very different than anybody else. So we did that. So I think that's important to call out on all this. So I think to the person who, you know, it's easy to say, like, numbers don't matter, you're posting, you're making, you're working. You know, some of these people aren't even, you know, video editors, but they're, you know, learning editing software.

23:05They're trying to like put their best foot forward. And so it's easy to say that numbers don't matter. And even for us, we've like tried stuff and like it just either a wasn't worth the time or just wasn't a passion of ours. Or totally flopped.

23:22Chris Cruz:Yeah. Absolutely flopped. Yeah. And I think where you find the sweet spot is, is finding the kind of thing that you enjoy making and then just trusting the process. Yeah, that's good. I mean, it's a very much like a, that's such a cliche thing. And I, but it really is just like trusting that your audience is out there, trusting that your client will find the inside joke, the authentic, sorry, there's a bit of an inside joke there with that word in our, in our group, but showing up as the, your, your authentic self will find your authentic client. the one that's truest to you and resonates with what you're bringing to the table.

24:09So as cliched as it is, it really is find the thing you're passionate about making and then trust the process from there. I'm just thinking about we had a conversation yesterday. You mentioned, I actually don't fully remember, but I think it was a company of girls or something, but they're using this slogan that says F the algorithm. And my first thought was, hell yes. Absolutely.

24:33Chris Cruz:Yeah, I forget the name of their company. But genuinely, as a, I would call myself like a true creative, as like someone who longs to just, let's just create because we are made and wired to create. There's dreams and passions inside of us. And there's this weird thing in our culture in day and age where it almost has become this kind of rat race for the algorithm or like trying to tweak yourself in a certain way so that things like take off. and so I love kind of that phrase because I would say as an entrepreneur creative kind of like what you were saying Coop trust the process and when you dive into the depths of like if you're creating out of true passion if you're building something out of a true dream and you're doing the work to refine you're doing the work to be excellent in your craft that's what matters like at the end of the day, I kind of do say F the algorithm and I say, keep going.

25:35Because if you keep, if you keep going and you keep pressing in, like I said earlier, entrepreneurship is a marathon. You get to mile 17, you are going to see results because of your consistency, because your dedication. Something that we say outlast everybody, you are literally. And something that we say all the time is we, we kind of like, we're the moonshot people. We choose to go to the moon because it is hard yeah it is not easy to start a company it is not easy to risk the vulnerability of putting yourself out there to I've I've started some businesses in my past it is vulnerable to say okay I started this business here's my articulation here's my dream and like but it is damn worth it it is damn worth it to not listen to the outside judgment or the noise So the people that actually never actually even go after their jerseys.

26:29Chris Cruz:They're just giving the other opinions, but they haven't done nothing. Yeah. So sink your teeth in and do the work. I have a kind of taking your marathon analogy. Chris, if two entrepreneurs are running the same marathon, one is running their own race, saying F the algorithm. Yeah. Their pace is... Their goal is the finish line. Right, right. But their pace is 15 minutes per mile. they they've threw up on mile 12 they're on mile 17. The other marathon runner has already quote-unquote gone viral and crossed the finish line. They need something right now to work. They've already put in three hours of running.

27:15They've already you know that they they need something to work right now or else they need a gel packet to get them through the next few miles. what would you what's the jail packet

27:27Chris Cruz:well my it's so funny because I immediately go to like their whole goal is just to finish yeah they started a race at some point I mean I don't know they're like they're like I want to like how if they're running 15 minute miles in a marathon you think their goal is to do what to PR no I get what you're saying but I think I think like if I was running 15 minute miles on a marathon I don't think I'm coming out the gate with numbers that are going to be reflective of some kind of endurance athlete. Totally. I guess my mind goes to the person who is saying F the algorithm, I would not necessarily coincide with a 15-minute marathon.

28:04Or whatever the number is. Whatever the numbers. They don't know how to edit videos. They don't know how to make content. They're starting from the beginning. They don't know how to run a nine-minute mile. They haven't been in it. You have two different types of people. Yeah, I get you.