In short
Why today’s winning brands focus on human, “weird/camp” content and slow, steady audience growth instead of chasing virality or AI-only production.
Guest backgrounds
Mike Payne is CEO of Arcade Studios, a digital marketing agency with a futurist on staff trained in foresight “scanning.” Arcade has worked with brands including Matty Matheson/Matheson Food Company, John Krasinski’s Some Good News, and Canadian coffee brand Monogram. He also runs Scan Club (newsletter + annual 2026 digital audience trend report).
Key claims
Virality-chasing is impatience; algorithms and people ignore feature/benefit CTAs. Content should be entertaining, relevant, and levity-driven, and “access people through people” via creators. Trends include improvisation, analog rituals, and “camp” (embracing cringe).
Notable examples
Apple TV+ BTS logo process; Pizza 73 campaign mixing Sora clips with real footage; Duolingo + Bad Bunny; “Bob’s Smoke Break”; J. Cole trunk CD tour; Lego clog; Matheson Food Company won via a Cameo message trick; Some Good News used decentralized story submissions and “Global Correspondents.”
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOThe Impatience of Brands Chasing Virality
0:00 to 0:50
Learn about brands' impatience and the disconnect in their content strategies.
“Brands that only chase virality are just impatient brands.”
Unpacking Digital Audiences in 2026
1:03 to 1:48
Explore insights into what digital audiences want in 2026.
“Well, Mike, bro, I'm excited to talk with you.”
The Evolution of Arcade Studios
1:48 to 2:47
Discover the growth and transformation of Arcade Studios over the years.
“Yeah, so Scan Club is this fun thing that just kind of happened by accident.”
The Concept and Impact of Scan Club
2:47 to 4:08
Learn about the creation of Scan Club and its significance in marketing.
“And so we actually went out to some of our friends that had experience in the space or maybe were creative directors at larger shops.”
Building a Meaningful Marketing Community
4:08 to 5:03
Understand how Scan Club serves as a value source for the marketing community.
“Basically a signal is something that shows movement, either accelerating or decelerating.”
The Importance of Healthy Growth Over Virality
5:03 to 6:10
Discuss the difference between healthy growth and chasing virality in branding.
“We called it Scan Club, sent it out every two weeks.”
The Gold in Building Trust
6:10 to 6:43
Discover the value of building trust with audiences rather than seeking quick wins.
“So that phrase alone, brands that only chase virality are just impatient brands.”
Innovative Approaches in Digital Marketing
6:43 to 8:01
Learn how innovative practices change the landscape of digital marketing.
“The fact that they're, that, that, and you saying like, you're not having to build trust with anyone.”
Insights from the Latest Trend Report
8:01 to 9:39
Explore the insights from the annual trend report and signals for the future.
“So that was part of it as well, where we wanted to start to create this flow of content and messaging that could also give our peers language to be proud of what they do.”
Celebrating Effort in Content Creation
9:39 to 10:48
Discuss the shift towards celebrating effort in marketing amidst the rise of AI.
“I want to develop that will lead back to the agency work?”
Show all 28 chapters
Case Study: AI in Campaigns
10:48 to 11:40
Examine a campaign that creatively used AI while balancing audience perception.
“So in addition to the biweekly newsletter, we publish an annual trend report.”
Creative Campaigns with Pizza 73
14:01 to 14:54
Learn how a unique campaign with Pizza 73 creatively mixed AI and sports.
Understanding Audience Reactions
14:55 to 15:40
Discover the importance of audience perception in marketing campaigns.
“And some of that content used to just fall flat in the past.”
Trends in Marketing: Improvisation
15:41 to 17:05
Explore the trend of unscripted moments in marketing and its appeal.
“So the first trend, we've got five of them.”
Engagement Through Unexpected Experiences
17:06 to 18:49
Learn how brands are creating unexpected experiences to engage audiences.
“holding the Pinterest phone with the Pinterest on the app.”
The Power of Analog Experiences
18:50 to 21:28
Understand the growing desire for analog experiences in a digital world.
“He started this other one called Revival of the Fittest.”
The Rise of Nostalgia and Cringe
21:29 to 23:25
Examine how nostalgia and embracing cringe are shaping modern branding.
“and it's actually to the point that convents don't have space for more people.”
Maximalism in Modern Design
23:26 to 27:09
Discover the shift from minimalism to maximalism in design and branding.
“and what they're looking for and what they want and more selective about the kind of brands that they follow and engage with.”
Working with Matty Matheson
27:10 to 28:00
Learn about the experience of collaborating with chef Matty Matheson.
“Okay, so let me ask you a couple of questions about some of the stuff you've worked on and how, like what you guys went through in that process.”
Working with Matheson Food Company
28:00 to 29:40
Learn about the process and challenges faced when collaborating with Matheson Food Company.
“So what was the process like for you guys beginning to work with Matheson Food Company?”
Navigating Client Relationships
29:40 to 31:50
Explore the dynamics of client relationships and the persistence needed to secure projects.
“And when it came to a close, like the episodic series, we still manage the social media for some good news, but the series isn't going anymore.”
Creative Strategies for Client Engagement
31:50 to 34:10
Understand how creative strategies can enhance client engagement and project success.
“I think it was probably a Friday night and I was trying to think about it.”
Embracing Personality in Marketing
34:10 to 37:00
Discover the importance of embodying brand personality in marketing content.
“some of his tone and personality but not rely on him to get views or to build the audience.”
The Evolution of Content Creation
37:00 to 39:40
Learn about the shift in content creation and the role of creators in modern marketing.
“about how people perceived you, but just embracing joy in the content.”
The Impact of John Krasinski's Show
39:40 to 42:02
Hear how the viral success of John Krasinski's show influenced positive media narratives.
“So that's another big aspect that we try to mix in almost every engagement that we have for social with brands is a creator element and an ongoing relationship with those creators.”
Building a Decentralized News Network
42:02 to 43:18
Learn how a decentralized news network was created during the pandemic.
“um, basically building this like decentralized news network where we would put out themes on Twitter and Instagram that people could respond to and send us their stories around these themes.”
Engaging Global Correspondents
43:18 to 44:28
Discover how engaging global correspondents enhanced the show's reach.
“They were all on this YouTube live and we actually designed a diploma, like an SGN unofficial diploma and got John to sign them and sent them out to any of the kids that were on this prom that wanted it.”
Closing Thoughts and Insights
44:28 to 45:01
Gain insights from the discussion and reflections on the experience.
“and then present as if they're a media anchor and things like that.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Chris Cruz:Brands that only chase virality are just impatient brands. Every marketing director is asking the same question right now. Why isn't our content working? More budget, more posts, more strategy decks, and still nothing moves.
0:11Mike Payne:The algorithm doesn't care about it. People don't care about it. Even if they see it, they're going to swipe past it.
0:15Chris Cruz:There's this anti-movement happening with AI. People are celebrating effort.
0:18Mike Payne:When Apple TV Plus did a new kind of like logo intro. It wasn't even the release of the logo itself that people got really excited about.
0:25Chris Cruz:It was when they released more of the process. Mike Payne runs Arcade Studios, a digital marketing agency with a futurist on staff. Not to predict the future, to read what's already moving before anyone else names it. Arcade Studios wanted to work with Matty Matheson. They got rejected twice, so they did something nobody else would do. I was like, man, what if Matty's on Cameo?
0:45Mike Payne:And I tried to script it in a way that he wouldn't know what I was doing.
0:49Chris Cruz:There's this return to camp and why the brands winning right now are the ones brave enough to be just a little cringe. This is episode 30 of Anatomy of a Brand. I'm Chris Cruz, and this is my conversation with Mike Payne, CEO of Arcade Studios. Well, Mike, bro, I'm excited to talk with you.
1:05Mike Payne:Me too, man.
1:05Chris Cruz:You've got a lot of stuff going on. You've done a lot of great stuff. You've done a lot of great work for some fun brands. Stuff worked with people like Matty Matheson and the Matheson Food Company. John Kozitzki's helped him launch something along with some of Canada's top coffee brands like Monogram. You've done some great work. and you put out this thing called the Scan Club, which is something we'll dive into. And you put out this report that talks about what digital audiences are really wanting in 2026. So you're arming brands with a lot of stuff. So let's unpack the, first let's go into the digital audiences 2026 and then we'll unpack some of the work you've done with John Krasinski and his show that he launched.
1:44Chris Cruz:And I know you have some other great clients that you've done some great stuff. Unpack the digital audience stuff 2026.
1:50Mike Payne:Yeah, so Scan Club is this fun thing that just kind of happened by accident. So we've been going for about eight years as an agency. We're a marketing agency, not a brand agency. So we do a lot of social media.
2:03Chris Cruz:How would you distinguish that? What's the way that you describe that when you say it?
2:06Mike Payne:I would say brand centers identity and product, where marketing centers the audience through content. Love it. Yeah. Great. So that's what we do. We've been doing it for eight years. and for the first four or five years we didn't have a creative director. It was all very practical. It was like my wife and I running it. She was probably our de facto creative director but didn't have the experience. It was just kind of like this is just a skill set she has. We had an art director, we had some designers and some photographers and social media managers, that kind of thing. But we just reached this inflection point where we were like we need creative leadership that knows what they're doing but we didn't actually know how to define it And so we actually went out to some of our friends that had experience in the space or maybe were creative directors at larger shops.
2:55Mike Payne:And we were just like, can we pick your brain on what this job description should be or who we should be looking for, where to find this? And chatted with a few people. And then one of them, her name was Alyssa. We looked up to her a lot. She had actually been a podcast guest for us a couple years before that. And we were asking her, who would fit this thing that we're doing? What's the language that we should use to describe this? And after 10 or 15 minutes, she's like, I think we should just talk. Maybe I can come and work at Arcade. And we were like, what? No way. Because she just felt like a giant to us in the industry.
3:34Mike Payne:And so we worked it out and she decided to come over. But the cool thing about it and why it connects to Scan Club was that she had just finished her master's to become what you call a futurist, which is basically a master of this foresight practice of scanning. So rather than let her just do creative stuff at Arcade and foresight stuff on the side, we were like, let's bring this to the work that we do. Let's dig into what's changing in the marketplace and what it could mean for the future of digital marketing. And she was really excited about that. So we first established it as an internal practice at our company where we would get on a Zoom call or a Google Meet once or twice a month with the team and we'd share signals that we were seeing based on the way that she had trained us.
4:24Mike Payne:Basically a signal is something that shows movement, either accelerating or decelerating. And then if you see enough signals in a certain direction or a certain topic, then that starts to become a trend. And the ones that really pick up, like AI for example, then it evolves even further to what we call a driver. And trends can accelerate and decelerate so there's some things that pick up for a short period of time and then kind of fade out. But we're looking for the things that feel like they're going to really move and really affect the way people behave. So we did that first, it was really fun but we were kind of like, what do we do with this now other than just use it as a filter for content ideas?
5:06Mike Payne:So we decided to start a newsletter. We called it Scan Club, sent it out every two weeks. And it just like, it picked up steam pretty quick. Not like virality, but just like consistent growth. And I think the reason we thought -
5:22Chris Cruz:I love that you made the distinction of something you celebrate that grew and then countered it with virality. Because I think that's kind of the common thing. It's like, oh, it took off. It went great. It worked. It's growing. People are like, oh, it's viral. You're like, no, no, no. Like this thing is just a healthy growth. this is like just we're putting in the work and it's growing because we're putting in the work because I think that's really healthy to call out because I think brands only right now are looking for that flash in the pan viral moment to consider growth versus like there's some stuff like this that just grows
5:50Mike Payne:yeah and I think brands need for virality is because they're too impatient so they make it a math game kind of like a salesperson you know it's like a cold caller it's like I gotta I got to call 100 people a day to hit my one or two sales, to hit my quota for the month. Too many brands think about their audiences that way rather than appreciating the slow incremental growth of 50 or 100 at a time because you almost have to do more work and pay more attention to that smaller, more incremental growth because you have to take the time to understand them and actually recognize that it's an individual.
6:37Chris Cruz:So that phrase alone, brands that only chase virality are just impatient brands. Like that's, dude, that is gold. That is gold. The fact that they're, that, that, and you saying like, you're not having to build trust with anyone. You're not having to spend time to get to know them. You're not actually building this true audience and community. You, you're, you're going fast. But at that point, you're like, if you only are chasing that, that impatience is what you are more than anything. That's great, man. Okay. So back to your scan club. Keep going.
7:05Mike Payne:Yeah. Yeah, and I think an important element of ScanClub too is from the beginning of starting Arcade, we wanted to find a way to provide value to our peers. And that might sound a little bit more generous than it is because our peers are our audience. Since we run an agency, we're looking to get in with marketing managers, marketing directors, CMOs, all those kinds of people. But on the other side of just wanting new business and being able to be known by those decision makers. We also, from the beginning, felt this perception or narrative around marketing and advertising, specifically, that has been around for a long time, that it's deceitful or malicious or coercion.
7:53Mike Payne:And I think there's also an attitude among a lot of modern marketers that people still didn't believe what they did was a real job, that kind of thing. So that was part of it as well, where we wanted to start to create this flow of content and messaging that could also give our peers language to be proud of what they do. And also to show people that this is artistic, this is creative, this is thoughtful. It's not always just about convincing someone to buy something that they don't need. And that comes down to a belief in product. But anyways, ScanClub was also, outside of just being a canvas for us to talk about foresight and the changes we were seeing, it was also an opportunity for us to provide value.
8:36Yeah.
8:37Chris Cruz:That lives on Substack. So you're not, you're like, are you, this is just fun shop talk here. Are you using the Substack as your CRM as well? Are you pulling it from Substack? Are they subscribing to the newsletter somewhere else? This is just good for people who are thinking about adding Substack to their brand CRM process or ways that they're gathering leads. Are you purely keeping it in Substack? What's your methodology there?
9:00Mike Payne:So far, we're not even using it to generate leads. Not through a funnel process, but we are getting leads from people that subscribe. They'll just come through our website or reach out to us directly. We have our contact info on Substack. But the reason we picked Substack was because it felt like more of a, safe is the wrong word, more of a chill place compared to other. That's why I'm exploring it.
9:28Chris Cruz:You're hitting on the head. Yeah, you're looking at it?
9:30Mike Payne:We love it.
9:31Chris Cruz:I'm starting to look at it just for myself and trying to think through, as a personal brand, is this the route I should take for some of the stuff I want to develop that will lead back to the agency work? but the yeah so I'm thinking about it as well were you were you into tumblr when you were younger
9:48Mike Payne:yes that yes I think that's part of it man it just there's elements of it that just feel like tumblr to me like og tumblr like if you take tumblr and you take mailchimp and you take instagram and you mix them together with a little bit of former twitter like the old twitter yeah a little bit of that old twitter and you put it in the oven you take it out you got sub stack There's just like, there's still that engagement opportunity that you get from social, but it's more wholesome and people actually write, people actually read long form and you can mix in images and video, even podcast episodes.
10:24Mike Payne:You know, it's just like, it's this beautiful escape from the rest of the chaos. Love it there. Yeah, that's great.
10:31Chris Cruz:That's great. So if we go a little bit deeper here, what are some of the things that you guys recently have spotted as these signals, these things that you're saying, hey, these are signals that might become drivers in the trends for digital audiences and what people are craving for online as your futurist team develops this?
10:51Mike Payne:Yeah, good question. So in addition to the biweekly newsletter, we publish an annual trend report. And so just a month and a half ago, we published our third annual trend report all about what digital audiences want in 2026. I think the thing I liked about this trend report the most was I just felt across the board this undertone of optimism that I haven't felt in a long time from the way that technology and behavior has been changing. We all see it politically, sociologically. there's just so much division and disagreement and even sometimes hate. And I think what I saw in the trends that we shared this time was more like unifiers and opportunities for people to come together around simple things and make almost like the mundane exciting.
11:48Mike Payne:And that was really encouraging to me. I don't know if you've seen people talking about 2026 as the new 2016, but it's kind of this nostalgic feeling. That's what it felt to me with the trends was almost like going back to those simpler times and the things that we appreciated before the world got kind of crazy. I can talk about a few specific trends if you want.
12:14Chris Cruz:That'd be great. Yeah, hit them.
12:15Mike Payne:Well, actually, first let me talk about this because I was thinking about this yesterday. This isn't in our trend report but one thing that I'm really noticing and I'm curious to hear your thoughts on this is with how much things are changing with AI. I've really been seeing more and more people celebrating effort in content creation and marketing. I think a really good example of this is when Apple TV Plus did a new logo intro for the platform. It wasn't even the release of the logo itself that people got really excited about. It was when they released more of the process or the BTS content of how they made it, that's when it truly did go viral.
13:00Mike Payne:People were really excited about the fact that a big company like Apple took the time to do something really manually when they didn't have to. That could have been an AI prompt if they wanted to. But they took all these intricate layers of glass and light and color to actually photograph or take video of this sequence happening and then turned it into a digital asset. And that's an important thing to note with trends too is anytime you see a trend develop online, there's typically also an anti-trend to that or an anti-movement, like an antithesis to that change that's happening. And I feel like that's an example of one that we're seeing with AI where AI can make things simpler, more cost-effective, faster, or even just better sometimes.
13:51Mike Payne:People are celebrating the opposite of that. and so that's something that I've been paying attention to and we've been seeing it in our content too both for us and for our clients where we just did a campaign with Pizza 73 which is like a big pizza chain out here and they have a partnership with the Calgary Flames and we just did a shoot with one of their athletes and it was partially done with Sora and then partially actually shot on camera this is for content
14:22Chris Cruz:this is living on social
14:24Mike Payne:this is a campaign on social and we mixed in these outlandish Sora clips of this hockey player riding a dinosaur and sitting on top of the saddle dome and the saddle dome is made of pizza and stuff like that and then it cuts to him real footage of him in the locker room putting his jersey on and eating a bite of pizza and he says you never know what's real these days and it's an unreal deal or something like that but anyways that did really well that campaign but then there was still a decent amount of negative sentiment around the fact that we used AI even though it was part of the bit but then when we released
15:02Chris Cruz:this is actually part of what we're trying to say is interesting and funny yeah that's the joke that's the punchline
Read the full transcript
15:09Mike Payne:but people don't pay attention to that all the time so it did really well but then what did even better was when we shared more of the process and people actually saw like, oh, this was a thoughtful production. This wasn't just a prompt into Sora. And we liked the thought behind it. We saw how it came together. And some of that content used to just fall flat in the past. You know, BTS on your iPhone? Yeah, right. You know, like that's just filler. But these days that kind of stuff seems to be the main plot. So it's interesting.
15:41Chris Cruz:But let's get into some trends here.
15:43Mike Payne:So the first trend, we've got five of them. The first one's improvisation. So what that means is people want unscripted moments. Like did you watch that Netflix skyscraper live where that guy did the free climb? Oh yeah, yeah. Stuff like that where you can't predict it.
16:04Chris Cruz:They had to postpone it even. Like the weather was bad, he had to climb it the next day.
16:08Mike Payne:Yeah, for sure. And then you don't know when he's climbing. You expect if they're going to do a show about this that he's going to get to the top, but it's live, man. So if this guy falls, we're all going to see it. So there's elements of adrenaline that come with even just the world of sports where you don't know the outcome. People want to participate in campaigns. Did you ever play SimCity or things like that?
16:34Chris Cruz:I didn't play Sims. My wife played a lot of Sims. I did not play any Sims.
16:38Mike Payne:Your sims can actually collect coach products. Or you can, most recently, you can pull your Pinterest board into World of Warcraft and create an aesthetic space based on your pins. So there's things like that that are going on that these big platforms like Pinterest or a huge cult following video game are doing things that people don't expect and even pivoting quickly in a moment. And it's nice to see pivots like -
17:05Chris Cruz:I saw the ad with the World of Warcraft hand holding the Pinterest phone with the Pinterest on the app. I saw that ad. I didn't actually know the full weight of where it took.
17:15Mike Payne:You were probably like, what the heck is happening?
17:16Chris Cruz:What is happening?
17:17Mike Payne:Yeah, this is odd. But it's cool to see, what I like about it is, for a long time now we've had brands trying to jump on microtrends on TikTok, for example. And it's just cringey most of the time. Sometimes it hits. Most of the time it's either cringey or it's late. So it's cool to see big brands doing things quickly at the speed of culture, but in a more meaningful and thoughtful way rather than just trying to meme something. Because that's usually how you do see it.
17:46Chris Cruz:You're right.
17:48Mike Payne:Under improvisation, we also say people want the chance to say yes and. I think Duolingo was a great example of this where they dropped a Bad Bunny 101 crash course ahead of the Super Bowl halftime show. Other than just attending or viewing the halftime show, you had the opportunity to do something extra like learn Spanish or even learn some key phrases or things like that so you could better enjoy the show. I think one of my favorite examples of improvisation from the last few months was there's this thing that went viral in New York City. It was called Bob's Smoke Break and it was just this old Jewish guy that put a bunch of hand-printed posters up around New York City and invited people to meet up with him in a park to take a five-minute smoke break.
18:37Mike Payne:And thousands of people showed up. It ended up being a campaign for something. I don't remember exactly what it was.
18:43Chris Cruz:Do you follow on social the Revival of the Fittest? I don't think so. Oh, dude, it's so good. His name is Nico from New York. He has an account that's huge. He started this other one called Revival of the Fittest. I think it's called Revival of the Fittest. but it's a record shop in New York where he's, I don't even know the full story. If these people are real people that work there, like this could be entirely scripted, but it's shot in real moments. Like the phone is going back and forth, talking to everybody that's there. Sometimes celebrities come in and make their way into the record shop, but it's like an old, like it's just towering records.
19:21Chris Cruz:Like there's nothing like records are on top of each other. It's messy, but the stuff they get into makes me laugh so hard about when they went to an Iron Maiden concert and they're talking about it and they're like, you don't know who Iron Maiden is. And they're like flipping out. It's just, it's super funny. And like a celebrity walks in at one time and she tells him like, I don't, I don't watch your show. And he's like, oh, that's totally fine. He's like, you're a liar. You want everybody to watch your show. Don't act like you're telling that, like, don't try to be chivalrous right now or honorable.
19:48Chris Cruz:This is great. It just feels so real and raw.
19:51Mike Payne:Yeah. That's the kind of stuff we want for sure.
19:53Chris Cruz:Yeah.
19:54Mike Payne:Um, Another trend is analog. I feel like this one's a little bit more obvious to people just from the stuff we're seeing on social media and stuff like that. But really what it comes down to is this desire, kind of like the discourse around 2016, is this desire to go back to the basics, something simple. And speaking of cafes, there's this, I think it's called Kase. It's a cassette cafe in Shibuya, Tokyo, where you can just go and chill. and it's like really retro. You listen to cassette tapes
20:26Chris Cruz:and sip your like macchiato or whatever, cortado. It's a coffee shop with a point of view. Like the coffee is going to be, I'm sure the coffee is going to be spectacular. I'm sure the coffee is going to have a level of craft to it. But at some point you're like, coffee's coffee. What's the point of view? And you're saying like, these guys like double down into that. That's interesting.
20:43Mike Payne:Yeah. That's cool. That's the kind of place I want to go to. There's also more of a desire for rituals and predictable touch points. this one was so funny to me and I do not understand it but there's this trend of bed nesting so as if your bed isn't comfy enough already they just basically will take all their sheets and blankets and pillows and build a nest on top of their bed and that's kind of like their Friday night plans but they make it aesthetic so it's TikTok content and tons of people watch it so stuff like that an interesting thing there's more of a connection to spaces and I saw this recently but apparently Gen Z women specifically are booking up convents for the summer and it's actually to the point that convents don't have space for more people.
21:34Mike Payne:They're turning people away because this is like young women's ideal escape during the summer is to just go to a convent and unplug. Wow. Yeah, so lots of that kind of stuff. One of my favorite examples of analog was did you i'm sure you're a j cole fan um because he's amazing but when he dropped his latest album he decided to go do a trunk sale tour so he just took his old honda civic filled his trunk with actual cds and drove around to different cities just posted on instagram where we would be and people would show up and just buy a cd and and like kick it with j cole yeah yeah these
22:12Chris Cruz:in real life experiences yeah yeah absolutely yeah yeah you're seeing what we saw a lot you see a lot with it with like run clubs like these they take off of like going like hey this brand's doing at their retail spot there they have a run club connected to their retail spot and they're going to go this day and that day and you're going to see the person that you follow there may be a 150 people there so you never may meet them but there's an element of like i could yes 100 and i
22:38Mike Payne:think the analog trend too isn't about completely abandoning being online i think it's about spending time disconnected from those channels in a way that you can appreciate little things and spend time with people. But sometimes it still is about curating content for when you reconnect. And then I think additionally it also causes people to be more selective when they do come back online of what they're consuming, where they're spending their time and things like that. So it's still, as much as it's not just about brands figuring out how they can meet people with IRL experiences or with physical products or activities.
23:17Mike Payne:It's also about understanding that when people come back to Instagram or TikTok or LinkedIn, that they are a lot more aware of what they need and what they're looking for and what they want and more selective about the kind of brands that they follow and engage with. So it's about quality over quantity. The third one, you want me to just keep rolling with these?
23:39Chris Cruz:Yeah, just go through a couple more And then I'm going to ask you a specific question about some of the brands you work with, what you saw they were wanting and how you guys delivered that and how that helps them.
23:48Mike Payne:Word. Sounds good. I'm going to skip our third trend because it's not as fun. But trend four is camp. And I feel like to sum this one up, it's just to be cringe is to be free. And I feel like there's just a permission. There's a permission out there for all of us to embrace the cringe in life.
24:08Chris Cruz:It's that Austin Butler line when he's on that train interview and he's like, what did they say? Embarrassed is an unexplored emotion. Go out there and make a fool of yourself.
24:17Mike Payne:That's it, man. That's what it's about. People want camp. And a great example of cringe is there's this move towards viral, outlandish brand merch. And I think it's also a way for businesses that have lower margins, like restaurants, for example, to tap into culture a bit more and also just make more money from people that care about their food and their space. But there's another crazy release by Lego, actually, that was a Lego clog. I don't know if you saw that. But it's kind of in line with some of these other weird releases like Mischief, like those huge red boots that Mischief did. So it's like that.
24:59Mike Payne:It's this big red Lego block that you can wear as a clog. And people are loving that kind of stuff. There's luxury board games that are popping off. even something as simple as the red lip coming back in fashion and also maximalism is a big part of this too I feel like you and I had a lot of interest in common over the last I don't know how long we've known each other, maybe like 8 years, 10 years and it was all about the minimal cafes and clean design and stuff like that but now it's about more sensationalistic stuff, maximalist abandonment of that like clean millennial gray you know um and moving into more color and
25:40Chris Cruz:it's intentional maximalist like yeah it's like it's not like clutter for the sake of like you're
25:45Mike Payne:unorganized it's like oh this was thought through yes this is like you you this was all put in here for a reason for some aesthetic outcome not this is unattended to and it's just horrible it's like
25:59Chris Cruz:oh no this was just as intentional as the the white space that was years ago but now it's just realizing like you want this this almost homey like sense of like people are living in this breathing in this experiencing this versus like you can't touch this this is a museum yeah and to your point if it's chaos it feels uncomfortable but if it's if it's done right like in a home for
26:22Mike Payne:example it can feel so cozy even though there's stuff everywhere books furniture blankets pillows whatever it might be and I think it might be an ode to how we grew up I don't know about you but most of our spaces were smaller and had way more stuff and a lot of it was inherited so there's like a mix of generations and styles of rugs and decor yeah and like crazy lamps and stuff but yeah maybe it's coming back to a little bit of that on the nostalgia vein but
26:56Chris Cruz:No, I think there's something to that. I think there's something to like, I think even Starbucks is starting to pivot its doors to try to figure out how do they make that space again, that third space again, where it was just, it became about convenience for Starbucks, quick and easy, not realizing like there's some part of what they built that they've lost over time. Okay, so let me ask you a couple of questions about some of the stuff you've worked on and how, like what you guys went through in that process. So I think one of the most notable ones that I was stoked to see you guys land and was pumped hearing you got it was when you started working.
27:29Chris Cruz:Because I know you were hunting for a bit on getting Matty Matheson to do Matheson Food Company. I don't know if it was specifically that brand, but I know that you guys were interested in working with them as Matty Matheson's a Canadian, people that don't know that, that watch The Bear and all that stuff. He's a Canadian hero. All his YouTube content.
27:46Mike Payne:For sure.
27:46Chris Cruz:Dude, he is, oh my gosh, he's so funny, bro. Anyway.
27:51Mike Payne:And he is how he is. Like that's the other thing that's amazing about him. Like no matter where he shows up, whether it's on a production or just like in real life, he's just that goofy dude. He just loves people. He's just that goofy. I love that.
28:02Chris Cruz:That's good to know. So what was the process like for you guys beginning to work with Matheson Food Company? And then what was the thing you guys actually did and why did you do it? Like what was not just like, oh, this is the project we worked on. But like why did you do what you did in that project and the outcome that you guys were looking for?
28:20Mike Payne:Cool. yeah so first of all it took forever to get it that was one of the ones that i felt like i was just chasing forever and for me i've always been a huge maddie matheson fan got all his cookbooks watched all his old like just to dash videos on youtube yeah um he used to travel all over canada go to like restaurants and stuff too yeah for real yeah he's done his book tours um one of the books I have was signed by him at one of his book tours. And it says, Mike, world peace, Matty Matheson, which is so him as well. But the reason we got the opportunity in the first place was because we worked on Some Good News with John Krasinski with the same production company that does Matty's YouTube stuff.
29:07Mike Payne:So they gave us the intro, and I was like, oh, heck yeah. This is going to be fun. I love Matty. This is our next thing. you know whenever you get a big project you're like and it ends you're like either i'm gonna be
29:20Chris Cruz:you had a big you're just teasing stuff up here working with john krasinski too like that that was a big big big project too that you guys got to be a part of you're gonna have to dive into that after this yeah even if it's right now and he just kind of segues in whatever way works for
29:33Mike Payne:you sure man for sure with it that one was like our first big hit i would say if if you want to use language like that in terms of clients and projects. And when it came to a close, like the episodic series, we still manage the social media for some good news, but the series isn't going anymore. It was only eight weeks. But when that ended, my first thought was, okay, are we going to be a one-hit wonder or are we going to get another one?
29:58Chris Cruz:And so when we got the intro to Maddie,
30:00Mike Payne:that was like, okay, this can be a thing. We can actually do this kind of work for these kinds of people. and so I was so excited and then they said sorry we're going to go with someone else and I was like and just battled with it for so long because they had tried to negotiate with us on price a bit and I was like I can't do this stuff for free you know so I held the line and I thought I was going to get it I was overconfident and we didn't get it they hired internally actually that first time and then I was like alright that's it hopefully hopefully we get another opportunity with someone else sometime a year later they came back and they're like hey we we liked what you had to say last time didn't have the budget but we want to talk to you about managing some of his restaurants in in toronto so i was like okay this is my moment of redemption like we're gonna make this happen even if i have to do it for free let's go you know yeah you're like let's go i want the client yeah so we talked to them for a bit it dragged out a while and then they're like ah okay sorry we're just gonna because it's like physical restaurants we're going to go with a local Toronto agency.
31:05Chris Cruz:And I was like, come on, like twice. You're like, I would fly.
31:10Mike Payne:I know, like I'll do whatever it takes. And they're like, we're sorry, we're sure we're going to find something that works for us to work together. And I was like, yeah, for sure, whatever. So then again, a year later, they come back. And I almost didn't reply. I was like, I don't know if I can go through this again. You're going to hurt me.
31:30Chris Cruz:My heart can't handle being broken up with you again.
31:33Mike Payne:Exactly, exactly. So I finally did reply and I was like, sure, let's chat. And it was for Matheson Food Company. And they're like, I know we've chatted a few times. This must be frustrating, but this brand feels like it's just made for you guys. So we want to talk. And so we chatted. They still said they had to talk to a couple other agencies just to do their due diligence. So I was like, here we go again. And then I was just sitting up. I think it was probably a Friday night and I was trying to think about it. how can I make this third time different than the first two? And I don't know if this is what actually got us the business, but I was just racking my brain on how can I set us apart from these other two or three agencies that they're talking to.
32:15Mike Payne:And we had just used this platform. I don't know if you're familiar with it.
32:18Chris Cruz:It's called Cameo, where you can basically buy videos from... Yeah, I was like, from somebody to make a call to somebody to celebrities will say happy birthday to somebody. Yeah, exactly.
32:28Mike Payne:So we had just used that to get an NHL player to do a video for one of our other clients.
32:33Chris Cruz:And I was like, man, what if Matty's on Cameo?
32:36Mike Payne:So I searched it up and he was on there, luckily. He's not anymore. I feel like he was on there for like two weeks, but he was there. And I dropped, I think it was like 600 bucks because it was for business use. But I was just like, I swiped that credit card and I tried to script it in a way that he wouldn't know what I was doing. but I angled it so that he was speaking to his specific team members that we were talking to and being like, you got to.
33:03Chris Cruz:Oh, bro, let's go. So you hire Matty to send a message not knowing he's sending it to his own team. Exactly. To pick you guys as the agency.
33:13Mike Payne:Yeah. Yeah. And so I just sent it in with our proposal and I was like, hey, I got a message from a friend. He wanted to pass it on. And then they were like, oh, that's so funny. he's been off shooting the bear so we haven't seen him in a while but thanks for sending this and then like the following monday got the work so let's go finally that's how it felt so it finally got the what's that sorry i cut off there sorry you cut off there you finally got the work finally got the work so i think what the challenge was with matheson food company was primarily that Matty was the draw because everyone loves him and he's like the nucleus of this brand.
33:57Mike Payne:But he was busier than he's ever been with the bear and all his other YouTube content and stuff like that. And obviously managing a bunch of other restaurants and different projects. So we had to find a way to basically inherit some of his tone and personality but not rely on him to get views or to build the audience. They could basically promise here and there you'll get a video or two from him. If you have some ideas of stuff you want him to do, let us know. But for the most part, you've got to just rock with this and do your best.
34:36Mike Payne:Other than embracing his tone in caption writing and things like that, we really focused on just goofy content. If we can align with his personality but center the product, then we felt like we could still make that connection point between people that knew and loved him already and them wanting to try a new product. It was tricky too because he had historically been known for affordable prices, really good food, big portions at affordable prices, but his restaurants were going through this process of getting more expensive, just the way the economy was going and inflation and everything. There was already negative sentiment around that.
35:15Mike Payne:And then this mac and cheese and barbecue sauces, they're more expensive than Kraft Dinner and Annie's and other brands like that. Partially because the ingredients are better,
35:24Chris Cruz:but people don't really pay attention to that
35:27Mike Payne:when they're on the shelf at Walmart.
35:28Chris Cruz:That was$8. Yeah, exactly.
35:31Mike Payne:So we just really leaned into the goofy side of our team, just trying to channel Manny's vibes and think about what are the people on the other side of these screens thinking about when they think about a product by Maddie. So part of the messaging was cook like a Matheson. So basically bringing Maddie into your kitchen at home and trying to channel the types of creativity that he uses when he cooks on YouTube or at home for his family and things like that. So that was really the direction we took. And we got a lot of great momentum really quick out of the gate. And then I think that also encouraged Maddie to get more involved.
36:11Mike Payne:He's like, okay, there's something happening here. So then he was super game to be in more content and lean into the direction that we were taking. But I think it was also just fun for us because one of the videos that went really better than the other content that we were sharing was we just took a bunch of our team to the mall and had them salsa dance on the escalators and do just kind of funky dance moves and big attitude, big personality in public spaces holding the mac and cheese and the barbecue sauces
36:47Chris Cruz:as if they just picked it up to go to their friend's house
36:50Mike Payne:or something like that. And it was a lot of just that simple content that just had a humor angle or just kind of the camp trend we were talking about, like to be cringes, to be free. It was just not being embarrassed about how people perceived you, but just embracing joy in the content.
37:07Chris Cruz:So, all right. So tell me when you're talking to brands to have them understand the power of this kind of content, what are you telling them? What do brands and founders need to know to trust that kind of content process and to trust making that kind of content? What do they need to understand? I know that everybody, they're always thinking social content. I need it. I need to do this, all that kind of stuff. And then they're wrestling up against AI could do it. What are you saying and talking to to help them understand why this is important?
37:41Mike Payne:Yeah, it's tricky to summarize because I feel like it's different with every brand. But if I was to try and think of some overarching themes, it would be that, kind of like what I said earlier in the conversation, brand really centers identity and product where marketing and content centers the person or the people on the other side of the screen. And as much as possible, if you're going to move the needle with something like organic social media content, we really need to understand why this is relevant to someone. A piece of content about features and benefits of your product with a CTA, that doesn't do anything.
38:22Mike Payne:The algorithm doesn't care about it, people don't care about it. Even if they see it, they're going to swipe past it. so how can we think about entertainment, relevance levity, opportunities to even improve someone's day slightly by just making them smile or laugh through the content even if it's not immediately directed to a purchase page there's still more likelihood that they're going to stop next time they scroll past your content but then the other thing too is just coming to terms with the fact that people don't care about brands that much anymore. And part of it is making your content as relevant as possible and making it matter to people.
39:05Mike Payne:But then the other part is actually accessing people through people. And so we try with Matheson Food Company, the person that we access people through was Maddie. But with other brands, we find creators are becoming more and more important than they ever have been. And before it kind of felt like influencers were big for a while and then it kind of faded and people didn't care anymore. It all just felt like an ad. But then we've seen this kind of resurgence with creators and UGC content and just like human endorsements and like real stories from their lives of products making things better. So that's another big aspect that we try to mix in almost every engagement that we have for social with brands is a creator element and an ongoing relationship with those creators.
39:53Chris Cruz:Okay. So let's take this home around this, like you're celebrating kind of like that first moment with John Krasinski's show. Like what was that process and what did you guys do for them and how did that help them?
40:07Mike Payne:That was another crazy one how it happened because like everyone, it was right after the pandemic hit and everyone was sheltering in place and feeling like, Maybe we're going to quarantine for three weeks and be done with this thing. But things just kept shutting down more and more. We had a relationship with this guy that was friends with John Krasinski and they were just having drinks one night over Zoom. They recalled that a few years ago they were just fed up with the negative narrative of the media and they were like, if only we had time we would do a good news platform only for good news.
40:48Mike Payne:But they didn't have time. They were on these crazy film productions. John was acting, directing, doing all this kind of stuff. So then when everything shut down and they were on Zoom having a drink one night, they were like, we have time now, should we try this? And so they just kind of winged it. John got his daughters to draw his logo for behind his desk in his office in Brooklyn. and he had Steve Carell and a couple other people on the first episode just kind of figuring maybe some people will care about this. And it went viral. And then they were like, all right, I guess we're doing this weekly now.
41:22Mike Payne:So our friend that was part of it, he was more of like a producer type role. He just texted me. Again, it was like a Thursday or a Friday night. I think we were on our way to the mountains with our kids so that my parents could watch them so we could get some work done, something like that. And he was like, hey, I don't know if you saw this show. It went viral last Sunday. We don't know what to do with social media, but we're working on the next episode. Can you help? And I was like, absolutely. And so he literally just texted me the logins and was like, he was like, we're busy working on the show.
41:56Mike Payne:Can you just figure it out? So Mitzi and I and our team spent the next eight weeks, um, basically building this like decentralized news network where we would put out themes on Twitter and Instagram that people could respond to and send us their stories around these themes. And then we just built spreadsheets, man, like spreadsheets to call through all these submissions, get permission if we wanted to feature it on the show and basically shortlist what would go into the show versus what would go on social media. And it was a whirlwind, But it was really cool to see how something like positivity and levity could just change the whole sentiment of people around the world.
42:43Mike Payne:And I think John did such a good job of leading that and kind of setting the example of what the tone should be and what kind of stories were you were looking for and just keeping it simple. Because as a director in Hollywood, you know, it's easy to overcomplicate things or overproduce things. but he just kept it so low-fi and he did a great job of that. And then we got to do this live prom on YouTube for kids that were missing prom during the pandemic and we had Chancellor Apper and Rainn Wilson and the Jonas Brothers and Billie Eilish. They were all on this YouTube live and we actually designed a diploma, like an SGN unofficial diploma and got John to sign them and sent them out to any of the kids that were on this prom that wanted it.
43:34Chris Cruz:Dude, that's awesome.
43:35Mike Payne:Yeah, so there's just some really powerful moments in there. And we did merch that was all for charity and built an Etsy store and sold them all on the Etsy store. And it was just this crazy build the plane while you're flying kind of thing. But speaking of creators, one of the things we knew was that the show was only going to be for a short period of time before John had to go back to work. so one thing that we did early that benefited us later was identifying just random people around the world that just seemed really engaged and bought in and asking them to do more. We basically called them our SGN Global Correspondents and we were like, you're a news anchor now.
44:14Mike Payne:And so we'd send them prompts or stories we wanted them to go find and they'd go out with a mini mic and interview people and talk to people and even build a desk at home with their computer camera and then present as if they're a media anchor and things like that. And they were able to continue engaging with us even after the show was over and continuing to help us share stories. And that became a big anchor point that allowed us to actually grow the social following significantly more after the show was done than during it. So yeah, it was a cool experience.
44:50Chris Cruz:I love that. I love that so much. Well, bro, I want to honor your time and appreciate you being on the call with me, man. Thank you so much for sharing all that, dude. That is such valuable insight.
44:59Mike Payne:Likewise, man. Thanks for having me.
From the publisher
Subscribe and join our community for operators, marketers, and builders shaping the future.
Get in Touch
Instagram: www.instagram.com/anatomyofabrand
Website: www.anatomyofabrand.co
Email: micaela@harborandunion.com
Most brands don’t fail because they lack content. They fail because they’re creating for algorithms instead of actual human beings.
In this episode, we sit down with Mike Payne, co-founder of Arcade, the marketing agency behind Matty Matheson’s food brand, John Krasinski’s Some Good News, SmartLess Mobile, and some of Canada’s most culturally connected brands.
We unpack what digital audiences actually want in 2026, why the brands chasing virality are just telling you they’re impatient, and how a futurist practice called signal scanning is helping Arcade spot cultural shifts before they become trends and turn them into content strategies that move the needle.
This isn’t a conversation about social media tactics or content calendars.
It’s about understanding people, celebrating effort over efficiency, and building brands that audiences actually want to follow back.
You’ll hear:
-Why brands that only chase virality are just impatient brands
- The 5 cultural trends shaping what audiences crave in 2026, from improvisation to analog to camp
-How Apple TV’s logo went viral not from the reveal, but from the behind-the-scenes
-Why Gen Z women are booking up convents for summer and what it signals about digital fatigue
-The Matty Matheson story: how Arcade got rejected twice, then used Cameo to close the deal
-How John Krasinski’s Some Good News grew more after the show ended than during it
-Why a content piece about features and benefits with a CTA does absolutely nothing
-The case for “to be cringe is to be free” — and why camp is the trend brands keep underestimatingIf you’re a founder, marketer, or operator trying to figure out why your content isn’t connecting, this conversation will reframe how you think about every post, every campaign, and every audience you’re trying to reach.
Timestamps
00:00:00 Trailer
00:01:10 Dad life, Mexico trips, and why Calgary is a brand city worth studying
00:05:20 From Arcade agency to Scan Club: how a futurist practice became a newsletter
00:09:40 Signals, trends, and drivers — how to spot what’s actually moving culture
00:13:45 Why brands that chase virality are just impatient brands
00:17:10 Substack as the anti-algorithm: Tumblr meets MailChimp meets old Twitter
00:20:15 The 2026 trend report: why this year feels like the new 2016
00:23:00 Effort as content: why Apple TV’s BTS outperformed the actual logo reveal
00:25:30 Pizza 73 x Calgary Flames x Sora: when AI is the punchline, not the shortcut
00:28:00 Trend 1 — Improvisation: Bob’s Smoke Break, Duolingo’s Bad Bunny crash course, and unscripted moments
00:32:00 Trend 2 — Analog: cassette cafes, bed nesting, J. Cole’s trunk sale tour, and convents
00:36:00 Trend 4 — Camp: Lego clogs, maximalism, and to be cringe is to be free
00:40:00 The Matty Matheson saga: two rejections, a Cameo video, and finally getting the work
00:45:00 Content without the celebrity: how to inherit a founder’s tone without relying on them
00:48:00 John Krasinski’s Some Good News: how a pandemic side project became a global movement
00:52:00 SGN global correspondents: the creator strategy that grew the audience after the show ended
00:55:00 Retainers, lo-fi content, and how Arcade prices its workGuestMike Payne, Co-founder of Arcade, a marketing agency based in Calgary, Canada. Arcade’s clients include Matty Matheson’s Matheson Food Company, John Krasinski’s Some Good News, SmartLess Mobile, Monogram Coffee, UCLA Health, Pizza 73, and more.