Why Creators Burn Out Even When They Are Winning (And How To Avoid It) | w/ Giancarlo Ep. 26

0:00Chris Cruz:Why do so many creative careers fail even when the talent is real? I had all the things kind of going to be like, okay, this might be a successful launch, whatever successful means, but it didn't hit the way that I thought it would. Ten years ago, Giancarlo picked up a camera. After making hundreds of commercials, working with big brands, he still calls himself a beginner. The industry talks endlessly about gear, cameras, lenses, lighting, the things you can buy. What it rarely talks about is what it feels like to stand on set with other human beings. I think something that I found that was missing was, what is it actually like to be a filmmaker or creative in real life?

0:40Chris Cruz:As one of the youngest people on set, he watched people building careers while trying not to lose their lives in the process. That tension stayed with him. The Creative Gap was born out of that question. What does it actually take to build a sustainable creative life? Not just a career, a life. This is Anenomy Brand, episode 26. I'm Chris Cruz, and this is my conversation with director of photography, Giancarlo Stigliano. All right, bro. So you've been in this for about 10 years doing video work from commercials to branded content and five years of podcasting with The Creative Gap. And you have this thing called the Chiva Collective.

1:17Chris Cruz:you obviously have identified something as a underserved a overlooked demographic or even a like as you said the creative gap there's something that you're seeing in your industry that you were like i have to bring voice to this i have to bring some deeper understanding because there's a lot of thoughtful content you put out on the creative gap it's not uh surface level i would say it's it's there's some deep emotional even conversations. What's happening that you felt like you had to serve that and bring that and bring your voice to that? Yeah. So first off, thanks for having me. It's nice to be on the other side of the microphone.

1:55Yeah.

1:55Chris Cruz:Yeah. So five years of doing it. Dude, it's insane when you're a guest. It's a totally different experience. I feel like a sense of relief because normally when I go into a podcast, when I'm the host, I have this like anxiety a little bit. Oh, I get it. I got that anxiety right now. It's almost like I feel sometimes I'm more anxious for a podcast than I am to shoot a half a million dollar commercial. It's the weirdest thing in the world. I can't describe it. But before a podcast, I just get nervous. And then as soon as I talk, it's gone instantaneously. Yeah, it starts. Yeah. But to answer your question.

2:30Yeah. So I feel like part of just who I am in my nature is very sort of introspective in a way. and I tend to look at things like, I almost think about my own thoughts, if that is a good way to describe it. I think a lot. Yeah, reflective. Yeah, I'm very reflective. And as I was kind of going through, you know, the stages of this industry, even though, you know, I'm still, I still consider myself, you know, a beginner in this industry. You know, I'm only 27 years old. I've done some cool things, but in the grand scheme of things, I am still just touching the surface in terms of what I believe I'm capable of doing and what the future might hold.

3:10And, you know, I think with the rise of social media as well in conjunction to where I was kind of coming up in film, I think a lot of the things that are being talked about have to do a lot with gear, a lot with tech, a lot with shooting with the right camera, shooting with the right lights, shooting with all the bells and whistles to be able to actually get you to go do that thing, which I think is important. Yeah, the practicals. Which is totally important. And I think something that I found that was missing was what is it actually like to be a filmmaker or creative in real life, like on set working with people?

3:50And I didn't see that very much because when I was growing in my films, in the film space, I had to learn very quickly about interpersonal relationships on set because you are working with people. Of course, you're shooting a product, you're shooting a thing, whatever. But at the end of the day, you look to your left and you look to your right, there's human beings next to you.

4:12Chris Cruz:Yeah, there's a leadership component that is often overlooked. It's completely overlooked. And I think it's not, it's not, it wasn't talked about, especially enough, you know, maybe a couple of years ago to the point where I was able to learn from people that were in this space about leadership in particular and about communication, about conflict resolution, about managing expectations, about even like a simple thing is like as a leader, you don't think about, you know, when somebody comes to you with an idea, how do you say no to an idea without making them feel like their idea was stupid? there's so many like little tiny things like new nuanced things that no one has taught and i had to learn those on my own and i've had some great mentors along the way and that in conjunction with something else that was really important to me is the reason the podcast started um being one of the younger people on set a lot of the people that was working you know for me i guess but i hate saying that, but gaffers, key grips, ACs, they were a lot older than me.

5:14They were husbands, they were fathers. And during that time, a couple of years ago, I was, and still am in a very committed relationship. I was with my girlfriend, my current wife now for probably seven years then. And we were thinking about, I was thinking about getting engaged and marriage coming up. And I've always had a, a strong desire to be a father. I think that's like, I've realized that really early on that that is, I feel deeply like one of my callings in this world is to be a father and being surrounded by some of these people on set that were husbands and fathers and, you know, seeing them during lunch, FaceTime their kids.

5:51And, you know, I'm traveling with people and they have families back at home. I would just talk to them.

5:56Chris Cruz:My kids were climbing on my office desk yesterday. I brought them into the office and cause it's a snow day. And they're like, it looks like a, if you're looking out from the outside in, it looks like a zoo exhibit. I got these like animals like jumping on my desk and stuff. It's just real, man. It's real. That's like, to be honest, that's like the beauty of what I feel like life is in general is just family and kids. But I was able to talk to them a lot about how they were able to manage their life and their career and being a freelancer. And, you know, they shared a lot of valuable stuff with me at the time.

6:29And that was sort of the catalyst to want to create a platform to be able to invite individuals to talk about these sort of topics in life. And I wanted to bring a podcast. I wanted to bring a platform that didn't just talk about how to light a subject in a portrait style or use this new aperture light. There are places for that, and that was fantastic. And I just realized that I wanted to be something different, and I really think that I, over the last couple years, have really stuck with that initial motivation and that guide that kind of brought me there. And I feel like it's gotten stronger over the years and my curiosity has just gotten deeper with it.

7:12Do you think, here's what's interesting

7:13Chris Cruz:with what you're saying. I love it because there's so much of what you're sharing that I resonate with on a level of the overlooked qualities of leadership and brand building. Like the realities of, you get these really creative individuals that don't know how to lead people at all. They don't know how to help them grow as individuals. I've even told our team, one of the trophies, sort of speak, of what we're doing or the goals of what we're doing is actually to build a company that it's making your life better by working at it. And that's my job as the leader of this to go like, I'm going to build this out in a way that you thrive in this.

7:44Chris Cruz:And it's bettering your life across the board, which that's so different than learning the practicals and the creatives and all those other elements. It's a side of you that you have to start learning from organizational health specialists, emotional health specialists, people who understand people. but then there's this other part where you're saying too, where you're like, hey, this world that I'm in, I'm seeing this value exchange, these people sharing life and teaching and guiding me and I want to share that. Did you ever, now here's my question, did you ever in that process find yourself wrestling with, well, if I talk about that, will I lose some of the creative energy I have towards the other things?

8:26Chris Cruz:Are people, is, if my, am I pigeoning myself in the, in the space that I went? Cause I think a lot of brands wrestle with, I want to follow what I feel is unction on. But if I go down this route, will I then lose some of this and not be known for this? And did you ever wrestle with any of those things? Like what you're going to be known about? Yeah. And yeah, I mean, I feel like I could have an hour long conversation on this topic in particular, but yeah, I guess with the podcast in particular, I, I have like a very strong conviction with the podcast about what I want it to be and what I want the message to deliver and how I want people to feel when they listen to it.

9:03And, you know, there are times where, especially with the, I guess the popularity of brands, you know, sponsorships and the type of content that those brands really want to get behind and put money behind. A lot of it doesn't really correlate with the stuff that I'm necessarily doing because it isn't super popular. It's not trendy. It's not clickbaity. It's not all that stuff at all. And, you know, for the longest time, for up until recently, I've done everything myself, funded everything to be able to stick with my voice and be able to focus on that initial mission, which was focus on conversations that evoke challenging conversations about life and not just surface level technical things.

9:52Chris Cruz:In a specific industry. So you're talking primarily to, on this podcast, like DPs, Gaffers. If somebody's not in your industry, who are you talking to? If somebody's listening to our podcast who's a CMO for a food and beverage brand, who are you talking to on your podcast? Give them context. I think the niche that I have found is definitely within the filmmaking and creative space, whether that includes photographers, uh creative directors directors dps a lot of who i do talk to are dps because that's sort of that's what i do for a living um this year in particular i am starting to branch out into other departments within the film space but the umbrella for the podcast is within the film and creative space i think it would be i don't know if it would be super wise for me to completely expand outside of that especially in this still early stage of the podcast where i'm still developing the voice for the podcast, developing my own voice for being a host and the messaging.

10:49And I think right now I'm still just trying to curate the best that I can within that sort of umbrella and niche.

10:56Chris Cruz:Yeah, that makes sense because it's what I love about that though, that can translate beyond what you're doing to other companies and other brands is the idea of you found your industry, but you brought a conversation that wasn't being talked about in that industry. So while you're, while you're, you're not venturing too far away from the space that you bring income from, you're bringing an angle that brings life to you and to that space. And I think that's a really key thing when we're thinking about brands is going, you might find that if you are in the food and beverage space, but are people in the food and beverage space talking about these kinds of conversations in that space, they're still humans.

11:34Chris Cruz:And these humans in that space are having these hard conversations. So you're basically going, I'm going to talk to these people, but then I'm going to bring all of this, which I love. I love that. I love that you've done that and that you found success with that. And I love that that's grown an audience for you. And it's, I love it. And so I have another question inside of that though, for you, you mentioned something earlier that I wanted to kind of like double tap in. You said I was really young in the space and I was kind of listening to these guys and watching these people with their kids and all this stuff.

12:03Chris Cruz:I was a really young leader in a position at one point that I was like, thrust it into something really young. And I had to unlearn a lot as I got older because I was so young in the space. Is there anything that you're like, man, as I'm building this podcast, the company Chiva Collective, which we'll get to, is there anything you've had to go, man, I've had to unlearn this because it's, it's really not served me anymore. Yeah. A very, very important topic for me right now and very pressing for me is this idea of not forcing myself to grow horizontally as much anymore. And this is something that I'm working on in terms of my thought of how I'm describing this.

12:49Horizontally for me pretty much means that I'm adding things to my plate, adding things to my responsibilities horizontally without going deeper in any of them. so I felt like for a while that also has to do with the idea of just wanting more you know doing more um just excess I think is something that I'm really trying to combat a little bit right now and being and finding the balance between being all in on something but also not being consumed by it as well and I think part of that has to do with the fact that I need to focus on what I have what I built, the things that I'm truly passionate about, my family, my relationships, the certain businesses that I really feel called to.

13:37And instead of feeling like I need to add more because maybe one thing isn't working. And, you know, instead of facing that head on, running away from it and adding something else in hopes that maybe that solves a problem. Instead of going that way, my focus this year and is really important to me actually right now is facing things head on and going vertical with things and going deeper with the things that I do have and really honing in on those. And I think for a long time, the thing that was really, I guess, prominent in my day-to-day was adding things to my plate. And now I'm really focused on subtracting things to my plate.

14:15Chris Cruz:What was the thing driving you to add them? Like, why did you feel you've, like, it sounds like you were on the urge of overextending yourself. Completely overextending myself, completely. And what was driving that overextending? What was the thing that you found inside yourself that you had to stop? I think part of it had to do with my, uh, my occasional and sometimes very often, uh, social media scroll and seeing what other people are doing. Like, oh, that looks cool. Maybe I can do that too. Or, you know, and that in conjunction with maybe it's a point in time where my film career isn't doing very well or the podcast isn't doing well, or, you know, Chiba isn't doing well or whatever it is that I'm doing, isn't doing well.

14:54instead of facing my problems head on face, asking myself the hard questions of like, okay, why isn't this working? What can I do to dig in to make this better? I would turn away, run away and be like, oh, this guy's making a million dollars on drop shipping. Maybe I could do that. And then just add yourself. And then before you know it, you turn around, you got 12 things. None of them have any depth at all. And before you know it, you are just spread thin and there's no room for anything meaningful in your life.

15:24Chris Cruz:And you've diluted your creativity at that point. It's gone. And you're in this weird spot where now you're trying to manage a circus almost of things that were built off the insecurity. That's exactly it. Like these were all built off my moment of insecurity and they made me reach for things. And I think, I think leaders do this all the time when they're leading the organizations, they see somebody I've been in meetings where they'll, they'll reference this thing, this company, this person is doing, we just got to do that and you're like whoa whoa that's not rooted in anything that what we're doing uh we can be inspired but the the insecure energy that causes us to then create to appear that sense of success for our brand or our to our teams our people really just drains us in the end because like you said you go really horizontally wide you're not deep and they're all built on insecurity which is going to fall over time it's crazy so the in this process then you did that You're going and you're building.

16:21Chris Cruz:So you have brands coming to you. You've worked with brands.

16:28Chris Cruz:When you go to your account, like your Instagram account, you see this wildly deep, rich videography work and this amazing perspective and this stuff looks incredible. And then you have your podcast. You have all these really deep interviews. When brands are thinking about something, why are they pulling guys like you in? Why are they asking you to help them? What are they needing that they're like, this guy and guys like you or girls like you, whatever, all have this thing and we need that. What are the brands looking for that you're helping them see that's just a strength of yours that the industry needs?

17:08I think in the simplest form, I try my best to always just stay true to me. and I I think on YouTube in particular and I know that we haven't really touched on that but that's a whole other thing I have which is I have almost I think I'm almost 60 ,000 subs at that time and that's another thing that I you know there's a bunch of things that I have going on and I think within the YouTube world in particular I think this is really prevalent because I really tried hard not to fall in the trap of working with every brand that hit my dms or my email which is often and i think it gets to a certain point where you want to find certain brands that have reached out to you because they love who you are as a person they love the message that you're sharing and they love that there's a consistency within that whether that's on the podcast or your youtube page that's good And I think because I didn't necessarily, I don't, I'm not going to say sell out, but because I didn't fall into the trap of, you know, what's trendy in filmmaking.

18:21I, again, I stuck with the topics that I felt really called to talk about the things that I really felt were valuable to me. And I think the more that I just continued to do it, I just created a sort of resume of things that were consistent and true to me. and I think that gave certain brands especially a few that I've been working with years that have that we have great relationships and now they trust me they trust me as a person they know that when they're going to work with me they're going to get this thing they're going to get this beautiful thing because I know that they know that I'm going to put everything I have into it because I don't say yes to every brand and the ones that I do work with are the ones that I really do care about.

19:02And I think those are the ones that actually understand the message that I'm trying to, I'm trying to share.

19:07Chris Cruz:So there's some kind of alignment in the message. Cause you've, like you said, you stay true to who you are and you talk about the things that matter to you. So brands are looking at you as a person, as much as your skillset, they're looking at you as a person and saying, Hey, the, the perspective, the point of view, the way that you see the world, we actually want that in what we're doing. Can you do it with our, our product or whatever it may be. And so then for you, there's alignment. There's what you're looking for. There has to be some kind of, there has to be. Otherwise it just feels fake.

19:36It feels artificial. And I don't want to, I don't want to be known as the person that just is like the brand guy that every video, every podcast has a sponsorship guy that has like 35 sponsorships and like every other, I just, I don't know. Why don't you want to be that guy? Cause I just, I don't, I feel like after a while Well, it starts to feel a bit artificial and less intentional about the things that you are actually promoting. And I think that there is value in it from a business perspective, especially on the YouTube. Like, I know that's a business model, and I know that's really important to be able to generate income from that.

20:15But for me, I've realized that I'm in a different position where YouTube is not my full-time. Podcast is not my full-time job. Being a cinematographer is my full-time job. So that's where I generate most of my income. That's where I generate everything. So I have the power to say no if I don't want to do something. And I feel very blessed to be in that position where YouTube and podcasting are these extra things that I have that are amazing. But I have built the freedom from my DP career to say yes or no to brands or sponsorships, depending on how strongly I feel convicted about working with them.

20:53Chris Cruz:Which is an amazing thing. It's an incredible opportunity. And we resonate with that. And that we don't make money off our podcast. It's just for us. We're able to, not saying we won't ever, but right now we don't have to. And that's an amazing thing. And so the journey of you kind of expressing all the ways that you've done it, right? You've got your YouTube, like you said, the podcast, and you have Chiva Collective. Unpack this thing. What is this? This thing is a tough one. Is it something you're, is it something, okay, I'll ask you, because I love how honest and transparent you are in every conversation.

21:32Chris Cruz:Is it something you're frustrated with or something you're struggling with or is it something you feel alive doing? Both. All at the same time. Both. All at the same time. This past month, I've had like a complete reset in my thinking about what I want to do with that. But we'll get there. But the origin of Chiva came from a place of stepping back and looking at the things that I built, the podcast, the YouTube, just me as a person and how people, what people like know me as, as a human being. And I think that I've created a brand of being somebody that is very introspective, that cares a lot about health, wellness, leadership, communication, health and business and finances, all the things that aren't, again, talked about a lot on filmmaking YouTube pages or just things in general.

22:24And I realized that I had an audience that followed me for a lot of the reasons that I care deeply about and the things that I share. And I didn't, I've always wrestled with, should I make a course? Should I make a program? Do I want to be the course guy? Do I want to, like, for a long time I said, no, that's not me. I don't want to do it. And I think it had to do with the fact that I didn't feel strongly enough about what I was creating to get behind it and feel confident about the fact that, okay, maybe I am a course guy, but what I'm making is really important. I don't think I had that strong of a passion for anything to actually back up my decision to do it until I found this and kind of developed this, which was how can I create a program and material that helps freelancers, help filmmakers that are maybe just starting out or people that are even a couple of years in that need an understanding of what it looks like to become a leader as a filmmaker, what it takes to understand basic financial principles.

23:28Like most people I talk to when they start free freelance, they have no idea they have to save for taxes. A simple thing, but it's something that you're not really taught very often. Oh, for sure. And the other aspect, which is really important to me, and most people know this if they work with me, is I come to set with a lunchbox. I bring my own food. I bring fruit. I bring healthier. Like I just, I, I've been working out since I've been 12, 13 years old. My dad had me in the gym when I was like 12 or 13. And it's just, it's a part of me at this point.