Why She Bet Everything on a $5 Cookie | AOAB w/ Whitney Miller Episode 35

18:42Chris Cruz:Yeah. And if I'm putting my name on it, like it has to speak to who I am. And I am a perfectionist. And I will tell my employees, like, there's a lot of things that I might not be a perfectionist about, but cookies is one of them. And so the look of it, it's the taste of it. It is everything about the cookie. So the look and the taste. Okay, even that, I resonate with that. I have to, like, navigate my own, like, expectations on a lot of things in life. So you're talking about, like, just even the shape of the cookie. Yes, I want them perfectly round. I want them to be nice and thick. Like the whole thing that is the battle with the cookies that we do is that they're going to spread.

19:19And it's because of the process, the ingredients. So everything is a science. Because people will be like, how do you do that? I'm like, well, I can't exactly tell you that. But just so you know, it is a science, you know.

19:31Chris Cruz:So then how do you not create, when you're trying to, obviously you're not the one in the kitchen cooking the cookies anymore every day. Or maybe you are. I am some, yes. Some days you're like, okay, so some days you're in there cooking. But there's an element to others getting involved. Yes. How did your perfectionism transfer ownership to other people to make cookies? Yes. And it's been a vast variety of different age groups. And, like, I started off with young girls. Okay. And so funny enough, we talked about the, like, athletic background. Some of my best employees were either athletes or homeschool.

20:06Chris Cruz:Okay. Because the homeschool were independent. They were used to, like, having to take on a challenge because a lot of them were teaching themselves. and then the athletes, they knew a challenge. And so they just would get in the kitchen and just like knock it out. Not a lot of them even had been in a kitchen. A lot of them were their first jobs when I started off. It was just fun to like see growth. Do you like mentorship? Is that something that exists? I do. I like, as I started, like that necessarily wasn't something in the back of my mind, but I knew like, okay, I have to make sure these processes are ones that they can handle.

20:40By nature, you always had to mentor

20:41Chris Cruz:because you're trying to, Such a rigid process that needed, yeah. And they took it on as a challenge, and, like, they did great. And now, like, my last kitchen manager, she ended up going to culinary school in Italy. Wow. And, like, she actually wanted to do that. So it was fun to have someone passionate about cooking in the kitchen with me. And, yeah, one of the things is, like, working alongside some of the girls. If they're, like, high school, about to go out into, like, the next stage, whether it's college or whatever it might be, I'm trying to mentor them and like, what are you passionate about?

21:14Cause I always had a passion for cooking and it's so hard for me to wrap my head around people that don't have that. And so it's like my, my thing that the Lord has given me is to have this mentorship with them of like finding their passion, finding their next thing. And you know what, if Whitney's cookies is a way for you to have something to do until then, like I love that, but I want to nurture that.

21:33Chris Cruz:Yeah. That's amazing. Do you tell me about in that process, you're doing all these different things. You're creating these cookies. You're, you're growing. What about setbacks? Like in this process, you have an unwavering belief in yourself. Yeah. You have a, a slight obsession with problems to solve them. Where did you find something that was like, man, I don't know if we bounce back from it. Was there anything like that, that hit you that you're like, man, I had to figure out a different way. Uh, yes. So starting my first store, um, I, when I moved to Franklin over nine years ago, the store location that I'm in now was a cupcake shop and it had like transitioned over the years and it wasn't anything food related, but when it popped, like popped open available, um, I had just had a child and my third and last, and I was same camp three and done yes and I was like oh this is a perfect time for this spot to to pop up like I think she was three months old or something and so um I was like okay well let's see if I can make this a cookie shop and it was small it was so cute I just thought it was just like a perfect little just like walk-up counter kind of space well there was no water access in there and so as I started working through the plans I'm like okay why do I need water access like there is a kitchen that's right on this other side of the door that the neighboring cafe uses and we're like kind of attached to it.

23:02So I had to work with the health department a lot on getting this space to be where they allowed me to use it. So much so that it almost was a point where it wasn't going to happen and I had to keep pushing because everything that I was putting together said yes this should work and all it took was getting the highest person over the state to come in look at the space and in two seconds after like battling for two weeks of this is not going to work on emails they said yep we can make this work just quick and easy like that and so you then from there yeah you had your location and i had my location did it work out the gate did you sell enough cookies for this thing to work it has been so great even even the cafe owner was a little like i don't know how this is gonna go over and i was like yeah i mean i imagine you had doubters Really well.

23:53Chris Cruz:Telling you like, even they're like, yeah, MasterChef winner, you were 22. This is different. This is a different thing. This is not Gordon Ramsay. You're trying to sell a cookie. Yeah. But yet you're selling a cookie business where the price of a cookie is around like$3 to$4. Yeah, we're at$5 a piece for our cookies. And that has been something people touched on until they try them. And people will note that on like our reviews. So like, oh yeah, that's not just any normal cookie, you know? And that's what I want. And that's another thing I'm passionate about is I'm like, I know as like, as I've seen, you know, just how everything is gone with like prices of goods and whatever.

24:28And we felt it because chocolate and just like butter, all the things go up. And I'm like, okay, well, I can't make this any pricier, but I know that if someone is going to spend their money on this cookie, cause it's, you know, it's not a cheap cookie, but it's because of what's in it. I want it to be worth it. And I want it to be when they taste it either like, man, this is like food memory. Like this brings me back to something like a memory eating at my grandmother's, you know, table, um, or a new food memory, or it just brings on so much joy, whether whatever it is going on.

24:59Chris Cruz:Okay. So you're, you're, it's working$5 cookies working. Love it. You got to sell a lot of cookies too. So you're doing that. Yeah. Where in this process between a tennis player wants to be a chef goes on Gordon Ramsey's show, wins Gordon Ramsey's show, starts catering, opens a cookie shop do you end up going like all right i know how to run a business like where did that process like where did you go and go like how did you start to learn the other side of it like the operational sides the other things that took for you to build this cookie brand that you're like you do partnerships with people that i'm like oh that's amazing yeah but you're like this that a lot of you can see it in worlds where like creatives who are very skilled at a task the business side they're like it's not me what about you is that like Are you like, no, it was a challenge and I accepted that challenge just like everything else I've done.

25:50Also, something that semi like helped me is when I won MasterChef, I was just given these opportunities. And I was put out there as like, she knows what she's doing. And so a lot of times I walk into things and I'm like, I just have to fake it until I make it. And so in business, like I had no clue how to actually ship the cookies. I didn't even purchase any from other companies. I just tried it out and made sure like they wouldn't break and that the packaging was spot on and just everything. And I was just like, I'm literally faking it till I make it. I don't know what exactly I'm doing in this particular space.

26:24I know how to make the cookies, but like shipping them out and then marketing and social and all that. And I have pulled people in and like learn different things and made it my own. And like, how do I tell our story? How do I get that out there? And we've had some interesting, you know, fails. Like we spent a whole lot of money on marketing and like 2023 when everything was going really great with the store, but like trying to market online. Wow. And it was, it was like, oh, that really hurt. We brought in someone that was just supposed to be like really great because I don't know marketing.

26:55Chris Cruz:Okay. And I was like, but I'm going to hire someone that does. And yeah, I just took it and it was like, what did you do? But what I learned through the process, because we even had a whole company that did ads for us, helped with socials, even though I was mainly doing that, and email marketing. And I started looking like, okay, well, we're losing money. You're supposed to be helping us grow. And I ended up fighting back. And I was like, listen, even though I know you're the professional in this, which they make you feel as though you know nothing, then I said, well, what about this? I love that call out so much.

27:34I love that call. I did. And they didn't like it. But I was like, I think we should be doing this. And they're like, well, I don't know. And I was like, well, I do. And so what I've learned is even being a professional in something and feeling like, well, I don't know if I really know this. No one cares about your company more than you do. And you have to continually fight. And that is what I've learned. You have to always be a fighter in this.

27:57Chris Cruz:Does the back of your head, like, does anything happen in the back of your head when you push that hard? where you go like, was that too rough? Was that too much? Or are you more like, no, that's the game I'm in. Or like, how do you handle that? When you know how hard you're working and then you're just seeing money slip away, you're just like, and nobody cares more than you do. Basically, yeah. And I was like, this is crazy. And so I just was like, nope, stop that. And I learned a lot from it. And so use that knowledge and then like did things myself. And like, I'm still trying to learn, but the space is always growing.

28:32I mean, even the people who are professionals, they're like, it's so hard to keep up with like what's going on social wise. But I just try to like put out there just like a nostalgia, like what we're doing isn't unapproachable. Like these are homemade cookies, you know, like we're doing it in a mass scale. But like what you're paying for is something that it's approachable.

28:59Chris Cruz:Yeah. Do you, there's a phrase that you guys have, I don't know if it's just on your website or another experience. It was the unhurried experience. Yeah. Unhurried, like, where does that. Unhurried conversations in our store. Yes. Unhurried conversations in your store. Tell me about that. Like, where does that value come from and what is it for? So we're growing our stores with Nashville and Spring Hill. And Nashville, for sure, because we want to be in visitor central areas. Franklin, we get about 5 million. And Nashville,$25 million a year. And it's just continued to grow. And so with that, I'm like, we're getting people that are coming to these places that I feel like we're in the South.

29:36Like we're about hospitality. But so much of that is slipping out in the business spectrum. Like of storefronts, you never will communicate to somebody. And it's so sad to me. And the heart of me is growing up eating at my grandmother's kitchen. And she would invite people over. And it was all about hospitality. And seeing how she made people happy. And I wanted to do that with joy through my cookies. And so when you come into the stores, the whole experience, I want it to be unhurried conversations. Like we ask you, hey, are you visiting? And then that just, oh, you should go try this out in downtown Franklin.

30:09And we'll do the same thing in Nashville. But just like, wait a second, this is not an experience that I'm used to. And it just warms people's heart immediately. And then it just continues as they try the product.

30:20Chris Cruz:Which kind of like a little bit of a thread here is your, the idea of like you took more time on the cookies than most people probably would take as far as even the ingredient list, the way that you did it. You're going, I'm willing to take more time even in the sales process than most people. It seems like there's something for you that doesn't want to rush something or doesn't want something to get lost. Yeah. Like what am I hitting at that is how Whitney's Cookies shows up or you as a person that, I don't know if it's like I don't like to cut corners so I will take the long road. Like, what is that?

30:51Yeah, it is. I don't take, I do not cut corners with the cookies. I don't want to lose the people. Like, the people and the memories, the stories, like, that is who I am. I shared one time that I was, like, on a plane. They gave me this cookie, and it just kind of felt like, oh, just a cookie, until I tried it. And it just, like, sparked this memory of being with my great-grandmother and trying something of hers. And I was like, gosh, how special that is. And if I have those memories, I'm sure that can be created for other people. Or maybe it is like, and I've heard of these, where people are like, okay, we have a special tradition of like after a ball game, we come into Whitney's Cookies and grab our cookies.

31:31And we know because there's a lot of parents, especially here.

31:34Chris Cruz:Parade days, parade days, the Franklin parades that happen. I'm like, it's just. Gotta go. You're perfectly positioned for all of my children to want cookies on parade days. I'm going, well, we're going to walk by Whitney's Cookies and everybody's getting a cookie. It's going to happen. I love it. But the other part of this, you had to have a, I don't know, like in that journey of growing your business, growing this cookie brand, did you have to like, oh, all right, we've got to change how we're operating because it's not working anymore. But it's not like, oh, this is not marketing, but like how we internally operate, how we got to cut this cookie because it's not doing well.

32:10Chris Cruz:Like, do you, what is that for you? Yeah, I, for one thing, I have to think about others and not just myself. I love chocolate. And so I would have like some comments like, gosh, every cookie has chocolate in it. And I'm like, I love chocolate. And so then it was like, okay. And also seasonal wise, like as we get into the hotter months, it's harder shipping those cookies that have chocolate. So I had to switch gears. And now like just like a chef and like going into a restaurant, we are seasonal. So we start bringing seasonal flavors in. And they use, you know, fruit and like lighter flavors and things that just feel like the seasons.

32:48You know, if it's like spring and going into summer. And so we purposely don't really put any in the seasonal ones like they have chocolate. So they ship well and the experience is really good. So I had to get outside of my own like love of different flavors. And then it made me think, oh, man, this could be really good. And then in our collaboration. So I love the challenge. Yes. And I knew I don't want to just get stale. And so I needed the challenges. So I started doing these partnerships, also bring in storytelling.

33:18Chris Cruz:Okay, tell us about that. Kimberly Schlattman from Little Big Town was our first cookie club. She challenged me to take two cookie or two desserts that were really special. Her grandmother's tea cake and her mom's blueberry cobbler and put them into a cookie. Lemon blueberry cobbler. So I did this lemon blueberry tea cake cookie. And we launched it. We did a whole thing. Like, I did a whole production where I scripted out this whole, like, video series, and we put it out on socials. Okay. Like, it was so cool. It was such a fun collab, but it was a challenge to me because I was like, what did I just get myself into?

33:55And I had to create this cookie out of these things. And then I did it again with Sadie Robertson.

33:58Chris Cruz:But is it a one? We'll get to that one as well. But is it a one-and-done cookie? Or is it like you make a mass after you do the collaboration? Yes. We did a full-on launch. We did a whole partnership where she said, hey, the Parkinson's Michael J. Fox Foundation is really important to me because my mom has Parkinson's disease. And so this is like a give back thing as well. So a certain portion of the proceeds from every box sold would go to that. Okay, very cool. And then that way it was like we're building something more than just putting out cookies, but a heart behind it. And she was a regular in our cookie store.

34:33So it was like, this isn't someone that had to like sell on the cookie collab. She was like, I love your cookies.

34:38Chris Cruz:So did you come up with the collab concept and go, I got to find the right people for this? Yeah. Okay. Gotcha. And that came out of a need to find a different way to generate revenue or like what, what did that come from? Yeah, it was like marketing, but how can we market? And like, to me just, oh, well, we're just going to utilize people that love the brand and they would speak really well to it. And then thinking people that also are like-minded and things that we are and what our mission is about. And so our next one was Sadie Robertson, and she challenged me to do— It was a cinnamon something, wasn't it?

35:10Yes, a cinnamon roll, sourdough cinnamon roll. I was like, I've never put sourdough in a cookie. Like, what? And so this one was surprising to me because it worked so well. Because I was like, this is going to be so sweet. You have to have something that's not sweet, and that's the dough of the cinnamon roll. and then you add the sweet on top of it and it was so fun and we have like these little packets

35:31Chris Cruz:that would go into it it was like a kit right yeah like you could put your ice your own cookie and people that was that was the best seller like that one went over so well people loved it it was almost like this diy your cookie experience with like solid cookies and real good like stuff um all right so i've got i've got to ask this question because of the industry and how things like there's how are you navigating like the crumbles the other ones that are mass reducing mass scaling like how are you thinking about where you carve your space out and maybe how you're different or how you're looking at that when there's lots of competitors in the cookie space so one thing early on that someone that was over a hospitality group here in franklin told me is a model that i should look to do and this is before i had any stores this is i just got started And he said, Whitney, you need to have an offsite kitchen location.

36:22And then you need to have these little storefronts. And I already knew I wanted to be in visitor area, like high traffic, foot traffic areas. And my mindset was, okay, if you're on vacation, you're not on a diet. Like that's not something you think about. And so even if someone was -

36:36Chris Cruz:I mean, every suite I can find on vacation. I'll have, I'm like, we're going to do three of these this time instead of one. You're exactly right. So with that, besides Spring Kill, which I'll tell you why that one, but Franklin, there's visitors and still like today it's like 75 % visitors that come through our door. They just want to be a part of Hallmark. It just looks so pretty. What's happening in downtown Franklin? And then we can tell them, Hey, we ship. So if you like these, we can ship. So we have, you know, it's more than just that one time customer for us. And then going into Nashville, the same thing.

37:07And then that will be the expansion is going into these small footprint spaces that are, yes, they they're high rent, but we know that we can afford it because it's small. and then replicating that into other places that would work as well. And then it did kind of change. Instead of doing like a warehouse kind of space where it was just like no one would know where our kitchen was, I learned from another business owner that what about adding a storefront in that kitchen space and that storefront pays for the rent. And so that's what we're doing in Spring Hill.

37:37Chris Cruz:Okay. Yeah. Let's go. So the next stage of Whitney Cookies, I know you mentioned Nashville. So is there anything else that you're going, as this brand has evolved, this is what's on my horizon? So I am. This year I'm concentrating on corporate. We do a lot of corporate gifting at the end of the year. And I'm trying to get that to be something that, you know, these corporations, they have that money. Like whether it's gifting to their own employees, gifting to their clients, but trying to figure out how we can partner with them to do that throughout the year. and make that experience something memorable instead of just like, oh, great, someone gave me this thing of popcorn.

38:16But like, oh, man, do you really want to wow your clients with something really great?

38:21Chris Cruz:Which I think is so fun for you to, like, I think it's a way that a lot of people don't look at how their product can go to different places in the traditional routes, right? Everybody would go, oh, you must be thinking about going to retail. You're like, actually, I'm thinking about getting all these organizations that spend this amount of money every year on corporate giving. the budget and we all get them those tins of cookies that are really old no offense to any of those cookie companies but they're they're not good it's just not fun you're like okay there's a really old cookie that's gonna just sit there but you're going i'm gonna chase that market versus thinking i've got to expand because it sounds cool that i'm in this store or that store but you're going yes there's an underserved market there which i think speaks to the humility but also a little bit of your competition that's like i'm gonna go find where i can win yes and it's marketing because we had after like shipping out a ton of cookie boxes to these people then they are reaching back out and saying oh can you do my corporate gifting so it was just like a you know a funnel effect it was just so cool of how it just was like oh well that's also a marketing boy but we're getting paid for it yes exactly it's so funny a friend of mine saying he started a coffee company that was purely built around the idea of corporate gifting so like it's incredible coffee, but I just know that everybody in corporate gifting is looking to do something like this.

39:39Chris Cruz:So we developed this bag of coffee that's purely for corporate gifting. It makes sense. Well, thank you for coming on and telling us all about this. This is such a fascinating for me, like the cookie industry, all of these things and your story specifically. So thank you for coming on. Thanks for having me. And just, if you want a really good cookie, go into downtown Franklin, grab one, or you can go online. They're dangerous. They're dangerous. Cooper video. I had like eight of them the other day. The mini ones, they're so good. So thanks again. Appreciate it. Thank you for having me.