Channing Tatum - 'Roofman'

26:22I was a DJ. I don't know. I don't even know how to DJ. You've had a lot of lives. This is amazing. So when I tell you that I've had so many lives, I've lost count. And I still feel like they all happened just yesterday. Yeah, yeah. It's kind of nutty. Well, so the first time you ever acted for a camera, correct me if I'm wrong, beyond commercials, would it have been Coach Carter? No, it was Havoc by Barbara Koppel. Oh, yeah, great. It was her first, I guess, narrative. Narrative, yeah. And how did that come about? After the Pepsi commercial, I came home and I was like, that was way more fun than standing in front of a camera flexing naked.

27:03So I was like, all right, so I think I want to try to see what this acting thing is. I went and found Dina Levy's acting workshop, and I started studying with her for a few months. I did that, and then I also, Harold Guskin, which is kind of like a legendary old New York sort of coach, and I did some privates with him, and this was all pretty quick. It was like months. So the fact that you knew you doing stuff that was in front of a camera, you're like, this might be where I want to do something. It was just, I just knew immediately that this is really fulfilling. Like, I mean, modeling, I always knew it wasn't going to last forever.

27:43I was never one of the massive, huge models. I was like a successful model. I didn't have to have a job other than modeling. So that's a very successful model, especially for a guy. It's one of the only professions that women make more money than men at, which I think is, thank God, there's something. But I don't know. it just felt immediately like something I needed to go and try and within the first five minutes of the workshop that I did I was like crying it was cathartic and I just knew that I was in and then as we started doing scene work I didn't I've never seen a play at that point I still don't know very much about plays or stage work or musicals really but when we started talking about movies like old movies I realized I'd seen a lot of the old movies that they were being brought up for scene work yeah and I love Turner classics and like I I wasn't allowed to watch TV very much because I was always grounded for my grades.

28:33So I would always sneak to watch these things and it was always really precious to me and that was one of the channels that I would always go to. That's great. And I do remember one, my favorite movie's Cool Hand Luke. And I remember staying home from school sick, my dad was there and I'm flipping through the channels and Cool Hand Luke was on and he's like, wait, wait, wait, go back, we're gonna watch this. And I was like, God, dad, come on, dude, I don't, please. It's barely in color. I don't want to watch this bullshit. And he made me watch it, and it was revelational. It just was. It was my first real introduction to Paul Newman and the just supernova of a human that he was.

29:14And I became kind of obsessed with him, even though I still at that point had no idea what acting was. Acting was something that happened on a stage, and movies just somehow people caught. Goonies happen. Came out of nowhere. That's how I explained it. Like to me, Goonies just happened somehow. They filmed kids finding a pirate ship. And so eventually though, once you were in the acting classes, did Barbara have like a casting director or somebody at your acting class? Yeah. No, I flew out to L.A. because my acting agent at the time was like, look, if you can, if you really want to do film, you need to be in L.A.

29:53And I was like, well, look, I get to fly for free because my mom works for Continental. And so I flew out for free. I stayed in like a literal$47 a night like hotel, like a motel. Did you run into what's-her-name the street walker? Millie was not there.

30:11But she was – I mean there was probably another Millie down the street. Yeah, right, right. But literally it was like one of those – like I would pull the dresser in front of the door at night just because I don't know how good these locks are. Yeah, right, right. and then I would just borrow someone's car or whatever and I would go back and forth and I did that for did that like three or four times in like a couple months while I was still doing these acting classes in New York and I still had my place in New York and I got Havoc and from just an audition being out here and like so many people are in that movie Anne Hathaway Mike Vogel Joseph Gordon-Lovett and Joseph Gordon-Lovett was really I think a huge instrumental human in my acting, I guess, journey, especially at that time.

30:54He was just so open and he loves acting. He loves creating. He loves anything creative. And I just, it was like a magnet. He was just like, I couldn't get enough of his time. I still can't. I love him to death. He gave me still something that I use today. he's the one that told me that he finds at that time I don't know if he still does um that he always likes to find his character's shoes first and I always was like whoa like I never even would have thought of that and it just he just kind of started to unfold not just acting class right like how do you practically go and like be in movies and like everybody's got a different process and different ideas on how to get into things yeah and I just sort of became obsessed with it that's Well, so those, you know, looks like 05 are those first credits of screen acting in terms of when they were released.

31:52But 06 is the year that things really took off. And I just want to I know there's so many things to talk about with you. I'm going to just move a little fast, but I want to cover for sure some of the big ones here. Ditto Montiel, is that how you say it? Ditto. Ditto. So this is a guy who writes a memoir, a guide to recognizing your saints, and then gets to direct the movie version of it despite never having made a film before. And in that film, you ultimately get cast as the young version of this guy, Antonio. Eric Roberts is the older version, kind of a raging guy, bully from the 80s in Queens.

32:33And just again to set this up for listeners, premiered at Sundance where the whole cast was awarded a special jury prize, gets released that fall in theaters. A.O. Scott in his New York Times review writes, Mr. Tatum, who has the bullish physicality of a young Brando, is an electrifying actor and I suspect we'll be seeing a lot more of him after this breakout performance, close quote. Then you get a Spirit Award nomination. I guess like this has got to blow the doors open. Now, the thing is that was at Sundance in January 06. But meanwhile, before it was released in theaters, you had two others that were released in March 06.

33:08We have She's the Man, which you're playing the captain of a high school soccer team. It's sort of a comedy based on Twelfth Night. And then also later that year in August 2006 is Step Up, which we'll we'll talk more about. But, like, that's a hell of a year for somebody who a year before nobody would have recognized if they bumped into them. Not even. And it was really very much like that. I remember going to Alabama, like, Wetumpka, where my mom's side of my family lives. Yeah. And I remember picking, like, my cousin up from, like, high school. Yeah. And then literally not, like, a month later that I think She's a Man came out.

33:44All of a sudden I couldn't walk into the school. Like, everybody knew who I was. And, like, it really gave me an interesting picture on, like, I guess fame. Yeah. And I was not a different human at any point during that. But now because I was on screen with someone that's famous like Amanda Bynes, at that time she was just massive. And everything did. It just changed. And I don't think anybody can be ready for that. There is no manual. There is no advice. I don't even know that you can give somebody that hasn't been through it. Or I guess, you know, if someone has been through it and told me, like, you know, maybe something, maybe I would have gleaned something.

34:24Yeah, yeah. I don't know what. Well, that's sort of my sense from everybody I've talked to is, like, you think you know what it is, but you don't know until you. There's no way. There's no way to know. Even, like, you know, take the, even the public aspect out of it and, like, what that does to your brain and even the perception of yourself in a way. So you didn't have any power. You just wanted to get a job. and then now all of a sudden people want you for things and now or you have choices now you're not even ready to make those choices because like not just days before you didn't have any choices you were just you were just trying like trying anything that you could who were the people at that time i do want to ask you about those specific movies but like who were the people at that time as things were coming together for the first time who were i guess familiar with the business part of the business and could give you good advice without looking for something from you at that time i didn't have anybody that was connected to the business or not to my specific business not not like i mean i had my agents and you know at that time i had managers i guess uh or you know 360 was my manager company and so i had no one really i was out here by myself like you know i didn't have anyone that even really had like good business acumen or anything you You know, to be like, all right, let's talk about this.

35:47My dad was a roofer and he felt the roof broke his back and then sold building products. So he didn't have, not on this scale or had nothing, no advice for me, especially about how to navigate this industry. And these were all kind of like not happy. I don't know if happy accidents is a fair way to put it. But like, let's just say, for instance, she's the man. Everybody now wants to claim credit for wanting you to be in that. I saw at the time, I think Amanda Bynes said she had seen you in maybe the Mountain Dew commercial or something you did. That's funny. And was like, girls would love him.

36:22But then I think Lauren Shuler Donner, who was the producer, advocated for you. Does that sound right? Yeah, Lauren definitely was a huge part of that. Yeah. She definitely chose, I think, me for that. And then how about with, so what came first? Like, guide to recognizing your Saints, she's the man, or step up in terms of getting them. It felt like this. So I got Havoc, and then while I was out doing Havoc, I got Coach Carter. And then so Coach Carter. Oh, wait. That sounds right. Small part in Coach Carter. Yeah, small part in Coach Carter. So that was my first like studio job. And then I did, I think I was like done with that.

36:54And then I was kind of like the token white boy in Coach Carter. And then once that was over, like I was like, okay, I don't know what to do now. I was like, you know, there's no jobs right now. And I think I went back home to Florida for a minute. And then I was trying to, all right, I guess I've got to, you know, I've got to move out to L.A. and like start this thing and try to figure out what else I can do. Then I did a little movie called Supercross just because it showed up and I did it. And then after that, I think it was a minute. Like it was a good, I don't know what the span of time that went by, but it felt long.

37:25It felt really long. I remember doing pilot season once in between this and I wasn't getting any work. I kept losing out to certain other bigger actors or people that were on TV shows. And it was pilot season. and I think my managers wanted me to go do, I can't even remember what, it was like some audition, but I just didn't like it. I didn't like the part and they were like, this is a huge show. This is going to be a huge show and I'm like, I don't know if I even, I can't go in and do this, guys. And they're like, well, look, you keep losing out to these TV guys that are going into film and you're never going to beat them because, and I was just like, well, look, I don't know what to tell you.

38:04I can't do it, so stop sending me things that I'm not going to do. And I remember having, that was one of the first times I really put my foot down in my creative sort of, I guess, process or journey where I just went like, look, if I don't creatively connect to it, do not send it to me. Don't try to pressure me into it and tell me that it's good for my career. So just stop there. And I had to draw, that was probably my first creative boundary Which is a ballsy thing to do at a time when you didn't... I didn't have money. I didn't have work. And they could have just dropped you. Yeah, no. No. Look, I remember it, and I will even tell them to their face.

38:40PK is one of my managers, and he was on this phone call, and now he works for my company. He's a producer at my company. Look, there was times where they wouldn't pick up my call. They'd be like, you feel it. You feel it. You call into their office, and they're like, yep, they're on a call. They'll call you back. Yep, they're on a call. They'll call you back. Yep, they're on a call. They'll call you back. And then you get a job, and then they're like, yep, wait one second. They're getting off a call, and then you wait, and then they come on. and then you get a little more juice and then they pick up right away and then you even get more juice and then they're calling you.

39:12Yeah, right. That's amazing. And it is. But that's the nature of the business. Well, you must have really felt that that year when all of this suddenly started happening. It becomes very apparent, you know, who like – well, just – but that's the negotiation of the business, you know. That is the relationship. You know, they weren't my – you know, they didn't start as my friends that became my managers. They were my managers that became my friends. And it is. If you haven't already, you'll see at one of the festivals or wherever you're going with your movie, Jay Kelly, which is about the manager-actor relationship.

39:46And how, you know, yeah, you're Fred, but you're taking 50%. Yeah, yeah. Exactly that. You know, it is. It's a complicated, but as long as you can be eyes open and honest with each other. and I've always had a really, really good and kind of boundaried relationship with those people in my life, and that's why they're still in my life. I end up always really liking the people that I work with, and otherwise I don't end up working with them very long. No, for sure. Well, so Guide to Recognizing Your Saints definitely reverberates for years to come because, as we'll get to, that's what I think put you on the radar for Soderbergh, For Bennett Miller and maybe even for Derek C.

40:33in France, I think. Definitely Derek. Right? She's the man, reaches the kind of young audience that became your initial fan base, right? Yeah. But Step Up, which just, you know, I think to contextualize for people, it comes out in August 2006 after the other two. This is a year after the launch of So You Think You Can Dance and Dancing with the Stars. Then this comes along, the directorial debut of a choreographer, Ann Fletcher, and your first opportunity in the movies to play a leading role and to show you that you had dance moves. Described in one place as a, quote, cross between fame and flash dance with elements of such films as Dirty Dancing and Staying Alive thrown in.

41:18made for$12 million, grossed$114 million, and all of a sudden that's the one that I think really cemented that you were on the map, right? So what was the origin story with that one? Like how did you come to be cast in it? How did they even know you could do that kind of dance? They kind of didn't. Like I had met Ann Fletcher and one of the producers, Jennifer, and I think I said something in the meeting that they were just like, shit this is the kid like you know because I was like I I know that I should I look why do people want to do choreography like why do they want to do the same moves together like because I I just didn't get why people like wanted to do that I you know I where I was coming from and dancing was all about self-expression and freestyling and being different than everybody else and I just I never had an appreciation for big choreographer choreographical like yeah like groups of people being so clean and together.

42:17I just didn't appreciate it at all. And Anne was like, I hate that question, but that is exactly the character, and it pisses me off. And that is, I think, ultimately what got me that part. And I guess I could freestyle and dance a little bit. But they only found that out after they didn't want to meet with you because they knew that you could do that. They met with you, and then they found out. That's amazing. The whole movie's about dance. It's literally about that. And then I obviously freestyled and danced, and they could see I could dance. But learning the choreography was tough. I didn't know how to count music.

42:52I didn't know why there's an and. I was like, why do you keep saying and at certain points and not at other points? I didn't get it. And I still don't count music when I learn choreography. I can't do it. It becomes robotic. I have to kind of just do my own thing. I remember, you know, maybe Step Up wouldn't have been the first movie to watch list for certain demographics. But then other people, I don't know if this was strategic or what, but then you go and do a much smaller movie that appeals to a totally different audience not long after that stop loss. A guy coming back from Iraq who's psychologically, you know, changed by that.

43:30Really good movie. and I think it was from there on that one that you met your partner in your production company is that right yep that's right and so that was 2008 2009 you're back with ditto on fighting a bare knuckle brawler in that which was notable then I think the first time you were directed by a really well-known major filmmaker was public enemies that same year for Michael Mann pretty Boy Floyd. And then is a project that in 2009 you did where I think you've said you had some reservations about just being kind of the face of, I don't know if it was because of the subject matter or whatever, but this was the first of the two G.I.

44:15Joe movies that you did where it's a big action movie. They both turned out to be big box office hits. But is that a moment where, and I could be way off, but like maybe people around, advisor or whatever, like you get a chance to star in a studio movie that's a huge thing like this. You do it even if you're not that creatively stimulated by it. Right, right, right. I'll back up and I'll try to not ramble as long on these things because it, you know, I definitely ramble. So, but I want to back up to Ditto. Yeah. I, you know, Ditto and Saints was, when I read the script, I chased that with all of my heart.

44:54I was just all over Ditto trying. I was like, look, I mean, the guy that I played was short and Italian. And, like, I am the opposite of that. For listeners, he is not. And I'm 6 '1 and very, very white. And at that time, I was even older than what I was supposed to be in the movie. and so but I just the story and I had an Antonio in my life and and I so I was more of the ditto and I just I knew that person I knew who that who that scary guy is like and how and I looked up to him and like his name is Matt McQuay and uh I got into a lot of fights with that guy like like yeah with him alongside of him and I still like I I've never even found Matt to be like man you're the reason why I wanted to go play this part.

45:48Really, I doubt he'll ever see this or hear this, but I just knew that it was the first time that I did something that was just, I don't know, I hate categorizing things as real acting or something, because it's all real, and it's all hard. I don't care, comedy, popcorn, adventure, all of it is hard, and you can be great at any version of the spectrum, but it was somehow very emotional and deep and scary to go and do. And Ditto made me that actor. He really jumped off the cliff with me and really helped me, I think, even believe that I could even do what I was saying I could do. I think he even knew that I was saying I could do it but didn't know if I could do it.

46:32Well, he said he was skeptical initially, but obviously you did two more with him, so he was won over. Yeah, we fell in love with each other and just our willingness to go there. you know he's just a street kid from New York you know that is an unbelievably creative and an amazing director he he really helped me find the real he he'd be yelling off his camera just like I don't believe you like he was like Chan I don't believe it I'd be like fuck yeah yeah yeah yeah I was like all right all right all right hold on let me give me a minute yeah and he was really hard on me and and but in the best possible way like you know he was a brother and we just you know yeah we just got in the fight together and and so that actually is what i think you know my my career could have went you know in a in a very different way from that point but then all the the sort of popular movies sort of came out you know the she's the man and the step up and and then i i went through a period of time which i think is kind of interesting to talk about as far as like for acting that after those movies i i really had a big slump like a huge slump and And that's when I found my coach, Nancy Banks, and really started to dive.

47:42Well, I guess I found her around Step Up. I started working with her around then. She found really quickly that it's tough to learn how to really act deeply when you're doing movies that never really go there. Don't go deep. She's the man. And Step Up, yes, they have emotion. They have the full spectrum. But they're not super deep, deep, deep stories that are, I guess, classified a certain. Like the Diddum. Yeah, like the Ditto film. And, you know, I didn't work for a while, like for a long time. And then I got a chance to audition for No Country for Old Men. Oh, really? Yeah, and I was 10 years too young for the part.

48:21Which part? For Brolin's part. Brolin's part, what? Yeah. And I knew I was 10 years too young for the part, but I was like, please just get me. Yeah. Get me in there. Get me an audition. I was such a fan of the Coens, and I was like, I know that I'm not going to get the movie, but I know I'll be a better actor after I come out of that room. like just by being directed in an audition from the cohen's like if i can just get in there and because they were actually seeing everyone not just like taping right and i was like i don't care just please please please so he get me in and then i went in and something happened that i can't describe other than going i went in knowing i wasn't gonna get a job so i went in open i prepared everything that you know i could i have the scene every way i had my my you know take on it but I prepared it as many ways as I possibly could and just now went in and was just open to because I really just wanted to learn from them I really wanted to see how they would direct and like what they would say and what they see and I came out of that audition and I got another audition and I got another audition I went all the way to New York and they've you know said if it if I was older if they were going to go younger it was going to be me and I for whatever reason that it it clicked something clicked and I think when you're a young actor you just want to get the job like you just you just and that does something to you that you know all of that stuff plays it's all underneath there and the fact that I knew I wasn't going to get the job freed me up from whatever that was yeah and I just went into whatever the work was and had no and I after that point it was like bcad like it was i went into every single audition after that different and going i'm not going to get this job but this is what i have to offer and now i'm just listening to whoever is like directing me well i guess what i also wonder is not many people you know the public they don't spend their money for to go to see just anybody so when it turned out that there There was – I mean you had – I'm not saying it's not still the case, but this starting around 2009 for the next bunch of years, there's this unbelievable hit rate that you had where, again, these – there's the two G.I.

50:38Joe movies, but 2009 is the first one. Then you got Dear John 2010, which is a Nicholas Sparks adaptation, which did so well that I think it knocked Avatar out of number one at the box office after seven weeks at number one. Yeah, it was never going to go away. Right? So you took care of Avatar. 2011. That's actually crazy. There's the Eagle and Haywire, the first of your Soderbergh movies, which we'll come to. But then 2012, this is one of the craziest stats that I've come across. In a period of five months, I believe, you have three movies that come out that you're the star of that make at least$100 million, which I don't believe anyone else has ever done.

51:23And so let's just say there is The Vow,$30 million budget,$196 million worldwide gross, 21 Jump Street,$42 million budget,$202 million worldwide gross. And Magic Mike's$7 million budget,$167 million worldwide gross. These are all coming out in 2012. And so obviously we'd love to hear anything that specifically stands out to you about those projects. But also just as for listeners, there are very few people who can talk about what it is like to be in the middle of a tornado like that. You were in the eye of the storm there. like and again it's I'm not in any way suggesting it's like gone away I think it's still there but like when that's happening for the first time there to the point where in early 2013 not even six seven years from when you were nobody you're now then on the heels of those three hits uh opening the Oscars dancing with Charlize Theron I was there and I remember like very impressively but like that somebody would know and care like they're looking to get ratings we put Channing who's got three movies that have just been giant blockbuster like so what was it like to suddenly have your career blow up like that yeah again I still don't know if I've processed that even in therapy you know like it's it's a you know I do like therapy I'll say that publicly I think it's healthy for me but it's It's tough to even explain.

52:57There's no way that going, and especially that young. I never had it as bad as probably Chalamet or even at the time Zac Efron. They had this, the young girls and that fandom of kids like that. I was a little older, I think, than when I popped or whatever. So I think I got some of that, but I didn't get the full, like, like, Chalamet thing. Like, you know, I mean, God, I don't know how that kid has like kept it so together. Like it's impressive. It's so impressive because I couldn't. I was really struggling with it. I didn't like having paparazzi outside my house. I mean, no one does. I don't think anybody does.

53:45But I was having a very allergic reaction to it and ready to kind of like if I could have just walked into the woods. and if you gave me enough money to survive forever, I would have just probably... Gone underground. I just didn't understand how to handle it. I didn't have the mind, I think, for concepting at all. I think, if anything, I started to self-destruct. It was a really complex time. And I was in a relationship, and everything was just... It's one of those things that you've got to now deal with this together. We were in different places. We did a movie together that we met on. Then I blow up and, you know, her career takes its path and that's conflict.

54:28So it was just conflict everywhere. And you're grateful for it all, but it's also a struggle. And that's such the double-edged sword of it all because you're just trying to keep your head above water. And then people are like, well, what's next? What's next? What's next? What's next? And make the right decision. you have said that it was maybe not coincidentally around that time you started to sort of burn out a little bit right now there was you talked about i think you pointed to 2014 2015 or maybe just before that but that's when movies came out like 22 jump street the sequel or jupiter ascending the wachowski's movie or things that where i mean your quote was quote i wasn't as good as i wanted to be in those last two movies because I didn't have the energy, close quote, because you think it relates to what we were just talking about?

55:15Exactly that. I think, you know, from G.I. Joe, I passed on G.I. Joe seven times, literally seven times. And not because I didn't like G.I. Joe, I loved G.I. Joe. I really wanted to play Snake Eyes. But because the script wasn't good. The script wasn't good. It was right at the writer's strike during that time. The studio was about to lose the rights to it. And so they needed to make it. And they had an option on me. By the way, this is when they did options. I remember. So Coach Carter, I got a three-picture deal. And for a young actor just trying to get a job, it sounds like the best thing in the world.

55:49And then you're like, wait a minute, you can just put me in anything that you want? And then so they pulled my option. And they're like, well, you have to do G.I. Joe. And I'm like, but the script, like my character literally disappeared for like 30 pages in like the end of the second act. like you know literally like it just wasn't there and i'm like well what are we doing about this part yeah anyway you know and my managers at the time they were just like you have to do this you'll lose a a studio and you know you get scared as a young actor and you're like okay well i guess i gotta do it like and you go do it it was the experience that it was uh you know i don't want to talk any shit because i should be so grateful that it wasn't some other terrible movie like that I don't know, you know, Loch Ness Monster, like, you know, 17 or something, you know, it could have been truly anything.

56:38But it was a, you know,$100 million movie. I should be, you know, happy. And I am happy. But it definitely, I believe, in my personal opinion, it definitely skewed probably some directors away from me that I really wanted to work with and took my career in a different way that I wasn't in control of. So that was not, I was not happy about that. But again, I can't look a gift horse in the mouth. I didn't even expect to be in one movie, much less any of these movies. So you just kind of, you know, you just take your medicine and you should be grateful for it, I guess. But then all that happened.

57:13And I had the successes that you just brought up. That was a huge thing after G.I. Joe. And then I really did start to like, I think mentally and even just creatively start to just like, I don't know what to do. And then so I just did it all. Yeah, a lot of stuff. I chose to do four movies back to back, and that was the worst decision that I possibly could have made, I think. Because I like to work. I really do. I enjoy it. I feel lucky to be able to do it. I think probably everybody that sits in this chair says that, because that is the truth. The best job in the world, but it doesn't mean it's not work.

57:51There's days that's hard. But I like those days. I'm a bit of a masochist when it comes to certain things, and work is one of them. And I think that on White House Down, we kind of accidentally got pregnant, me and my ex-wife. And then, so not only four movies back to back. That too. Two years, I had a baby. Got pregnant on the first movie, had the baby on the second movie, and then was trying to raise the baby for the next two after that. That's a lot. That's a lot. It broke my mind. My mind was fully broken. I was empty. Creatively, I was empty energetically. I didn't know who I was. I didn't know what I even did it all for.

58:35I was like, oh, I've fucked this up. I don't even know if I want to act anymore. I don't even know if I like acting. I just really got upside down. Well, what turned it around? And before you answer that, I just want to note that if we look at the just on paper, it seems like the way you came out of that and again you can tell me if i'm misinterpreting it but like somehow it's like your good deeds from the past can come back and reward you or whatever in your case again it's like people saw the raw talent and guide to recognizing your saints years and years ago and in this case that leads to bennett miller coming with foxcatcher i don't know if I think it may have had something to do with Quentin with the Hateful Eight.

59:21Your Coen brothers experience with that didn't necessarily do something immediately with no country perhaps had something to do with you now coming to Hail Caesar with them where you have this amazing dance number no dames. Soderbergh the whole thing with not only Haywire but Magic Mike and then Logan Lucky and on and on leading up to Roofman but so just before we you know have Roofman as the closing part I do want to just ask you about the kind of impact or just how you came out of that slump Soderbergh was a as a whole book unto itself I I think in my in my in my life much less my creative life or my at my career life he really took me probably unintentionally I was like the for a little while the little brother that he never wanted and annoyingly and we fought and And, like, we loved each other, but, you know, it's one of those things that he – I really got to go to, like, the Soderbergh and Greg – Stephen Soderbergh and Greg Jacobs, like, school for making movies.

1:00:24You know, I really did. They took me and Reed Carroll and my partner, like, under their wing and just took us on a ride and taught us everything that we really know about kind of making movies today. And that's Haywire, Magic Mike, Side Effects, and Logan Lucky. Yes, and Magic Mike 2 as well. And Magic Mike 2, yeah. Greg directed that and Steven shot it. Yes. I definitely broke myself during the Jupiter Ascending and things like that. But then I kind of got revamped when I got to start to make things from scratch, from the inside out. And we did Magic Mike and Reed and I got our production company going.

1:01:01And that was a crazy – I did Haywire just because that character on the page is literally nothing. When I say nothing and I didn't care. but again I knew if I just got on set like with Soderbergh I'd have done anything I would be not only a better actor but I would just be able because I've done so much of my learning how to act on job I remember you said about Lassa Holstrom that's why you took what was that? Oh yeah Oh Dear John Because right that was a motive to work with somebody who's a Oh, yeah, 100%. Cider House Rules in that case or whatever. Of course. I even did it with Kenneth Branagh.

1:01:43I didn't want Thor. Yeah, with Thor, yeah. I didn't want Thor, but I just wanted to go act in front of Kenneth Branagh because he's one of the better actors of our time. Right, right, right. And he did. He nailed something. One taught me five other things that I won't bore us with, but he nailed my crutch, which was movement. I like to move when I act. And so I came out of that knowing that, okay, I have to go learn how to act still and still be able to give the same thing. And it was a huge gift. that he gave me just from an audition. I didn't want Thor, nor do I ever thought I could be Thor.

1:02:12Chris Helmsworth was literally born to play Thor. But, okay, so then I went to... Well, Foxcatcher, right, after Magic Mike? Yeah, so we did Magic Mike. Well, no, Foxcatcher was the second movie. So we did White House Down, Foxcatcher, Jupiter Ascending, and then Jump Street. Okay, so that was in the chaos. That was in the fire, the belly of the beast. I mean, I literally, that was the second movie that was up, and it broke me and Mark Ruffalo, and I think Bennett. We called it The Pain Train. It was just the way Bennett, the way we all agreed to kind of do the movie was to kind of meditate on the pain of the whole entire film.

1:02:58I don't know if I'll do that again. No, no. I mean, you gave a great performance, but there's a price. It was a beautiful film, and we did. And we all made that agreement and we paid the piper on that one. And I'm so proud to be in that movie. Everybody is so good. And then I had my Soderbergh sort of chapter. And really it was so fulfilling to, one, get to just learn from those guys and to get to really – we wrote Magic Mike in a month. So your partner Reed wrote it, right? Yeah. And then you produced it. Yeah. And you guys – not only was it a very good movie, but it was a very good business decision, right?

1:03:34But we didn't know. We didn't know. We had no idea. Like nobody. Not even Soderbergh, as smart as he is. And people didn't publicly know that you had had – not that there's anything to be ashamed of, but like they didn't know that you had had – it was your story until stuff leaked around then, right? Yeah, and that's why Soderbergh – I think it had leaked. And then Soderbergh was doing like an interview or something, and he got asked a question if he would direct the movie if I ever made it because I said somewhere that I would like to make it a movie. Okay. And he was like, yeah, I'd do that movie.

1:04:06And I literally called him. And I was like, how much bullshit is in this interview? And he's like, meet me at Carnie's on Sunset. He always goes, when he's in L.A., he goes to Carnie's on Sunset on Sundays, I believe. It has a hot dog. And so we had a hot dog at Carnie's. And over a hot dog, he was like, all right, so this is how it is. Candelabra is going to be my last movie before I retire. And that's in, it was like less than, I don't even know, like eight months from now. And he's like, so if you can write it in this time, I'll direct it. You can be in it. Your buddy can write it. I'll do it if we can get it done and if we can get it done by this time.

1:04:41But if we can't, I'm retiring. So whatever. And I was like, oh. And he goes, and we'll finance it together. You know, we'll just split it. And I was like, okay. I was like, I didn't know. I had no idea what that meant. Normally they say don't spend your own money. But I had no idea how much it didn't cost. I didn't know if I had that much money. I had no clue. I didn't know how much money. I didn't know how much money I had in the bank. And I was like, but I would have borrowed from family. I just wanted to make a movie with one of my favorite filmmakers of all time. It's a great collaboration you guys have had.

1:05:12And then we did. We jumped off the cliff. Me and Reed didn't sleep for a month. And we basically got this thing done. And we went and shot it in literally 20 days. Or no, it was literally like three weeks. We shot this thing. And we somehow caught the Fifty Shades of Grey wave. And it just blew up. We had no idea what we were doing. We thought we were just cracking the code with making something for so little that we knew that we were at least going to be able to make our money back. And then for you, it was amazing. It was the McConaughey's, the whole thing. Oh, my God. I still – we still don't know how to like – I don't know how other than like – I don't know.

1:05:49I need to give him a big old chunk of money or something, but maybe one day I'll figure that out. But he was that whole first movie. Like that movie didn't start until he blows fire and comes on the screen. That's great stuff. He just killed it. Well, just because I don't want your people to kill me for going over, I want to zero in on what I think objectively, I guess there's no way of actually measuring these things. But if you talk to anyone who's seen all of your work and the stuff we're talking about to then get to Roofman, it's really like a milestone to have, you know, people get better.

1:06:24But you, I mean, this is a big deal, this performance. And this is just for people who don't know. Jeffrey Manchester, military veteran, struggling to provide for his family, turns to crime, but in the nicest way you can. Winds up incarcerated, then escapes and is hiding out in a Toys R Us. And we won't give away any more than that. But this is Derek C. in France who did Blue Valentine and Place Beyond the Pines and other stuff is the filmmaker. or maybe you can just say, first of all, again, in the kind of, what do they call it, like sliding doors or whatever, you almost worked with Derek a long time ago.

1:07:00Yeah. Yeah. During Sundance, when Guy Director of United Saints came out, he offered me Blue Valentine, and I so stupidly turned it down. But, you know, we've processed it, and I've processed it. But I really and truly believe that I was not ready to do that movie. I did not know at all what I was doing acting-wise. Do I believe that Derek Cienfranc could have brought me there? Yes, a version of it for sure. But I had never at that point in time been in a relationship that was even remotely like that and had that sort of pain. It was one of the saddest scripts I've ever read. And now I can do that movie in my sleep.

1:07:44I would phone it in, boy. but uh sorry that'll derail this whole conversation um but uh so yes i i i said no to him then and i just was too cowardly to jump off the cliff with him then cut to like however many years later i took about five years when when my when my marriage sort of fell apart and and you know we realized we were very different people wanting to do very different things i took about five years off and And just wanted to like. Yeah, 2017 to. Yeah, 2017. Between 2017 and 2022, the only credits. And again, this makes sense. But some voice parts and like cameo. Yeah, cameo stuff. Like, you know, I did parts for friends and just like hanging out.

1:08:26But I did my live show, my Magic Mike live show. So I was being creative. But I just really wanted to spend time with my daughter. I needed to like recalibrate and figure out who I was, what I wanted to do. What was my life going to be now? Because I just really wanted a family. I really, that's all I really wanted. And I said to myself, even when I was younger, I didn't have a great sort of, I think, model for a mom and dad, I guess, or that relationship. And I always said to myself that I was going to do that right. And when I think you want to do that so right, you're inevitably going to F that up.

1:09:00So I just wanted to make sure that I had a relationship with my little girl, and that's all I did. And I'm so happy I did that now. We're best friends. And she's singing and off and running. And then I was ready to come back. I was ready to try to, you know, sort of see what I still had to offer, you know, for this journey, I guess, and creating. And luckily, I got to come back. I think a lot of people don't get to come back. You know, I got lucky enough to, you know, Sandra Bullock is a really close friend. And Ryan Reynolds was actually, I think, supposed to do that movie. And he didn't do it because he was obviously busy with 15 ,000 other things.

1:09:37And Sandy gave me the shot and really, really, really gave me, I mean, saved me in a way, like kind of pulled me out of nowhere. And I will forever thank her for it. And it got me going again and, you know, kind of got me back in back in the saddle and sort of ready to go create. And then, yeah, I think something happened, I guess, in that sort of time. You go and live a lot of life. And, you know, I'd already lived 17 lives before that, I think. And then you come back with a different lens, I think, and a different, I think even approach. I still work with Nancy Banks on everything. We still have that, but I'm open to other sort of modalities of learning and immersing myself in things.

1:10:20It was great because when you happened to be receptive to things again, it happens to be basically when Derek says basically thinking of you, he wrote this based on a true story, but wrote Jeffrey, the movie character, with you in mind. Yeah, we went and took a walk in the park, and he didn't mention this movie to me at all. We said, we were like four or five hour walk. Like, you know, we talked about everything. Everything under the sun. We part ways. Nine months later, I get a call that he has, not even from him, by the way. I get a call from my agent that said he wrote a script for me. And I was like, I thought they were joking.

1:10:54I was like, what are you talking about? Did you say he wrote for me? And they're like, yeah. And they just send it to me. I don't talk to Derek before I read this thing. I read it in one sitting, which I never do because I don't read that well. One sitting, and I basically am like, I need to talk to him. And then I meet. We don't even talk on the phone. We meet back in the same park that we had had our five-hour walk. And we probably had like a six - or seven-hour walk. And we talked all about this movie. And obviously this time I wasn't going to miss the train. I was going to make this train.

1:11:24And I jumped off the cliff with him. Just so people know, Jeffrey and Manchester are still in jail. Spoiler alert, I guess. Yeah, no, no. I mean, look, it's a public story. I mean, he's still incarcerated. He's got 45 years. He's got 10 more years left. But because of that, Derek and his co-writer had been able to get information out of him, and then you got to do the same through jailhouse calls? They talked to him for almost four years, I think. Maybe longer than that, actually. They talked to everybody that they could find that was attached to the story and talked to him in person. and they did all the homework, and the script was unreal.

1:12:00Like, I never, when I say ever read a script in one sitting. And it somehow, and I know, obviously, they went and kind of rewrote what they had in my voice and in, like, with me in mind, I guess. And it just somehow spoke to so much of the things that I had, one, been kind of processing in my own life, themes of loneliness, themes of family, daughter, freedom and like what your value is and and like what your self-worth is what do you have to offer the people that you love and what you do like when you don't feel like you have anything to offer and ultimately like i i don't i don't know i don't know i think there was something sort of i don't know universally at this moment we weren't supposed to do blue valentine together that was always ryan's movie this one was me and derek's movie and it's like really like the performance of a career, at least so far.

1:12:55And people should know, 37-day shoot, Derek doesn't do rehearsal, but he'll make you do all kinds of exercises. It sort of feels tailor-made for you because there's so much. You're a physical actor, which we know from the dancing and all kinds of other stuff, but physical comedy in here, literally shot in a 90s era, recreated Toys R Us store. I guess when you look back at this as just a final question, what are you proudest of? What do you think you're going to take away from this experience? Which, by the way, is already from Toronto where it premiered, right? There's been just a really appropriate and nice amount of love for your performance.

1:13:37So I guess I just wonder what you're proudest of. Yeah. I mean, it's the perfect question because I think it all kind of happened on the movie in a way. I was going through a personal sort of moment even as that movie was starting, which I already had a lot of experience with loneliness and just relationship wanting and family wanting. And so I had so much to pull from. But for all of it to sort of have now happened, a new wound kind of opening up and now going into this movie that's so about loneliness and it was like meditation on it, essentially, but also funny and fun, and I got to work out everything.

1:14:24I just soberly walked through the woods, essentially, of this story with Derek, and I don't think I'd be, if I didn't have this movie and Derek to have gone through it with, I would not be the human, not just actor, but the human that I am today. I think a lot of my career and maybe in my life, there's a coin term now or a term that's coined imposter syndrome. Yeah, sure. I don't know if I ever believed that I deserved to be in this industry. I think I feel like I was always the radio winner that somehow got to come to the concert and then I got backstage and then no one ever asked me to leave.

1:15:07well this should put that to rest yeah and then for the very first time I think what I guess what I'm most proud of is I can I can say honestly and and without I hope without ego it's the very first time I feel like I've earned a seat at the table and and I and I hope I hope that continues I hope that feeling continues with with all the movies that I do but with this one I know that I could have sat across from any actor that I adore or revere, and I feel like I can hold my own now. And yeah. That's an amazing story, and congratulations to you on coming out of all this craziness. Thanks, man. Better than before, right?

1:15:51Yeah, truly. I mean, that's what life is in a way. You're just supposed to sharpen yourselves on all the stones that you get to rub against along the way. And I really do. someone asked me Jeff I'm sure would change a lot of things if he had the chance what would you change and it's the stereotypical answer I don't know if I could change anything if you change one single moment what would happen would I still be right here would it be better would it be worse I don't know but I'm happy right now that's all I have awesome well thank you so much really appreciate it you're so good you're so good at this man thank you

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