Chloé Zhao - 'Hamnet'

33:24I guess can you just break down chronologically how essentially the aftermath of Songs of My Brother led you to go back to that same neighborhood with this, again, a non-actor, Brady Jandro, who was kind of acting out his own story. Yeah. Yeah, tragedy chapter. Yeah. My second career, stomping blog, how do you say? A blog? Not stomping blog. Roadblock? Roblox. I don't like the word failure, but it's disappointment. So the losing money, that was one. Yes. And then I survived that. I go, okay. And then had premiered at Sundance. And then I can't. And then not have distribution. I realized people very soon forgot about it.

34:19And then start having some meetings in LA. Oh, those were a little humiliating because I could tell. They met me because they were told they should, but I can tell in their eyes there's no space for me. And I understand that. They have jobs they need to keep. I just wasn't somebody that they could hand some big jobs to. But you do the rounds. You're nodding. We were all told to do the rounds. and I was because of my dissonance thing very quickly I stopped I knew I was not going to after two meetings I knew I'm never getting a call back from those meetings and so I was too embarrassed to keep doing that so then I went on another dip you know feeling like really disappointed why is this happening what am I going to do is this over and I got really obsessed with decluttering your own home?

35:22Yeah, you know, around that time Marie Kondo came out and then I go, this is what I'm going to do Well, this time it was you decluttering your apartment, not somebody else You know, interestingly, every time there was a cleansing of letting go Yeah, interesting So then, I guess maybe I had to physically manifest the letting go to be emotionist and psychically let go. So I decluttered. I became a minimalist. I got rid of everything. And so very little things. And around that time, that's another one of those moments is that intuition. I remember feeling when I was making songs, there's so much more there.

36:10People haven't seen in that area. And particularly the Lakota rodeo areas. the rodeo circuit the cowboys and I find that so interesting they were Lakota they were cowboys it's such an American contradiction you know also beautiful of this union these cultures clashing into each other and then created this new culture and I was very and I was also interested in masculinity and being around these cowboys I was like I feel I feel I need to go back to them And also, you know, when you have no job and you have no money and you're living in Denver. By that point, you moved to Denver. We moved to Denver because we end up with a dog from the reservation who attacked all the other dogs in New York City and killed the squirrels because he's so wild.

37:06He's a red dog. And he wants to run. You know, he just he wants to be on the plane. So we just like, you know what? We can't fully move to South Dakota. Sometimes I just need a Whole Foods. So then we went to Denver. Colorado is so gorgeous, beautiful. So we went to Denver, and I just had time. So I just drive up to see everybody on the reservation. I just stay on people's ranchers hanging out. And then I remember playing video games in the basement with the rancher's son. And then I got so like, oh, I can't look at the screen anymore. I went outside. It was like a perfect spring afternoon, evening.

37:48And the sun was low. And then I see this young man breaking a horse in this quiet fly boy in a rodeo shirt. And that was it. And so from what I read, I think that just chronologically, that would have been July 2014. He wasn't injured, though, until April 2016. and then you guys went and started making the film in September 2016. Were you already thinking about making a film with him before the injury? You were. So it would have just been a totally different story. Totally different film because I went into that corral that evening and I asked him what he's doing. He started showing me around.

38:25And at some point I touched the back of the horse and I go, what is this? There's a bone. And he said, oh, that's what God puts in a horse to hold the saddle, man. I go, wow, who still talks like that? Because what he's demonstrating to me, and there was no dissonance. He meant it. And what he's demonstrating to me is a way of life that he has conviction for. So I thought, if he can convince me, this cynical Chinese New Yorker, to say, you know, God puts a horse in the sun. I'm like, you can sell this to an audience, right? So then I started for a while. You know, I wanted to make a road movie with him.

39:06Oh, wow. I wrote it. I was very inspired by Bhagabang at the time. So I was thinking Jayshan and him, you know. Right. So I was writing that story. And then he got injured. And it was very clear what the story is. And he never had any hesitation about, like, it was amazing. It's the other person in the film. Lane. Lane Scott. Lane, yeah. I mean, these guys seem just as open about their physical challenges as they had been. They're rodeo cowboys, meaning they're performers in many ways. They've been performing for cameras, putting their lives in danger in the most glorious moment, but also stunted on having to drag themselves out of the field, broken leg.

39:53That's all caught on camera, but that's all for them. Out of it is juicy. Oh, that's beautiful. And visually, that movie's insane. You go off, premiere at Cannes in the director's Fortnite section, which you won, then go to Toronto where one of the people who saw it there, I believe, was Frances McDormand. Who did not go do press. Yeah, she skipped her own press for three billboards. She sees this, if this is in Toronto, it's September 2017, but you don't really hear from her until early 2018. what was that outreach about? Because I guess she already had the rights to the book, No Man Land, right?

40:33Well, I was working, I knew I wasn't done with the middle America yet. And so I was writing a script set in Nebraska in the Sandhills about the Trans-Canada Pipeline and all that was going on there and called The Last Prairie. So I was very, you know, I was still in, I'm not done. And then also I've experienced on the rider this flow state at magic hour. I was addicted to it, both me and Josh. It's this interesting time where there's nothing else you can do but to surrender to the sunset. And then you start to turn. Some part of yourself is activated in that surrender. And it's such a, you're on the spot.

41:17You know, you're in the flow state. And it's so addictive, this way of working. so then I knew I was writing that script and it was okay the script you know it was okay and then Fran sent me that book well the script was I was worried is it gonna be too confined and you know after three stage events that happened in the past when she sent me that book no matter and by the way by that time I was driving I have lived in my car in campsites and making the first two films a lot. I lived in probably every campsite in this country. Not every, but at least a few in each state. And you, for the record, did not know.

41:59You'd never met Fran, right? I know who she is. Yeah, sure. And so when she wrote me, and I had not worked with an actor of that caliber before. So you said the one in songs, right? But basically not a professional actor. Well, yes, they are, but they haven't really left. Well, that's not true. I mean, Irene was Pocahontas, you know, so she did have that way. But Fran is a whole, she's, you know, she's a creature of another realm, you know. And so I, when she, but it's, you know, yes, Fran is exciting, but it's the book she sent me. You know, it was Nomadland, and I remember the title, Nomadland.

42:47You know, it's like when I saw Devil's Lake, I was like, there's something there. And then reading even just the synopsis right away, we're like, wait, the synchronicities of having been, by then I have watched every video, how to build vans, been dreaming about actually have a mobile home. and that book comes, how can you say no? Now just correct me if I'm wrong, but the book itself, there is no character Fern, right? There is the Linda May and Swanky and all these other people who you end up putting in the movie. But Fern becomes who Fran is playing, which I can't imagine is a coincidence, the names being so similar.

43:36And there's a lot of other things that she said were kind of inspired by things she felt and thought and whatever, and yourself as well. So now because of her, you finally get a real budget. Is that the reason? Like you now have$5 million to make the movie. Yeah,$5 million. So exciting. And so. Didn't know what to do with all that money. $5 million. My goodness. But it's interesting because even with a movie star, she reached out to you because she liked the way you worked. you didn't change the way you work because you're working with a movie star but so can you talk about just how you guys navigated that where she's such a unusually private movie star and yet you ask anyone who appears in front of your camera to kind of reveal draw from themselves she was willing to do that to an extent right there were things that you there that you maybe suggested that she was less like you know i heard one thing having her son in there oh and then having a picture of no joel that was i was really pushing for that yeah i was really pushing for that because for a cine for all my cinephile friends right right yeah no that would have been i like easter eggs you see i like those kind of things but like how did you guys no her song no because we knew her character would be not she never had children yeah the point is that There's nothing holding her.

45:02Was it kind of a dance figuring out how much she would be willing to share of herself? Well, Fran, you know, if you bump her up against the edge, she would just say no. And the thing is, I'm not, you know, if you talk to Paul and Jesse, if they say no, I'm not okay. I'm usually fine with that because if you, it's not always the case. But if you find the right actor and wrote the character for that actor, it's probably a good idea to trust their instinct. And there might be, I would say, 20 % of the time, 15 % of the time, I'll push against it. And a lot of times it's because my editor brain is working.

45:43I'm like, I know you don't feel that way, but it's not for you. But then usually their resistance doesn't mean they have the answer, but it will get me thinking. and feeling what they're resisting to. And now I will a lot of times find a solution if not with them. I want people to just kind of, I know I needed to really look into this to make sure I had the chronology right, so maybe you can confirm this. But people think, oh, because Nomadland came out in 2020 and Eternals came out in 2021, that that happened because of Nomadland. But in fact, you went off to Nomadland having already gotten the job for Eternals, right?

46:25Yeah, because I actually just set the record straight. I pitched Eternals before I even shot Nomadland. And I went into Marvel to pitch it the night before I get into my van and drive to South Dakota to shoot the film. And I remember when I left, about to leave that room, Victoria Alonso said to me, just make sure you come back, okay? I was like, why, why, why, why, why? She said, no, just make sure you come back. Why? It doesn't mean, is it a good sign? So I found out, you know, because we have a couple, a week, I think two weeks of prep before we start shooting. We were out there in South Dakota, but it was, I think, two days before we started filming.

47:13They called me and said, you have the job. So I had to start, in a way, working on the script while shooting Nomadland with the fur pose. So that was, you know, I wasn't very present at that time. That's the beginning of me realizing juggling two films has its benefits but also has its problems. And just one, I guess I'm not done bothering you about Nomadland because it's so great. But I want to just first establish. I think people probably in many cases may assume like a young filmmaker who's made movies for so little money as you had made up to that point. The interest in working with Marvel must be like totally understandably.

48:00I want to finally get paid for my work. But you've said that it was maybe not – at least not exclusively that. And in fact, before Eternals, you were approached about Black Widow, right? Years earlier. Yes. And by the way, let me say it right or straight. It doesn't mean I had a job. I was in the running. For which? Widow. For Black Widow, years earlier. I'm not saying that I had a job. Yeah, yeah, sure, sure, sure. And I was in the running. But it didn't feel like the right story for me. So I pulled myself. And then also a conflict with Nomadland. I knew Nomadland was the right story for me at that time.

48:35It does on paper. or look jarring to see Nomadland and Eternals next to each other. And yet you've explained, again on the roundtable, but maybe just we could do the cliff notes here. For you, it was not a totally different kind of experience, right? Eternals was not high on their priority list because it's a quite unique IP and it's on their list of potential. You know, with Marvel, it's very much the need to find the right filmmaker before they say that's the IP we're going to go for. And so, at least at that time. And so I remember at some point, Kevin said to me, it was one of those talks, and he said that, you know why I chose you to do Eternals?

49:25Because I watched the writer. When he said that to me, I didn't know Madeline yet. And he said, and I know that no one, no one told you to make that film. Literally no one in the world was interested in it or told you to do it. But you wanted to do it. And I go, okay, she has that passion and that's how you feel about Eternal. So I'm going to trust that. And you really did feel that passion. I went into the room and when they more gave me the treatment. I think the three years of making those three films, yes, I made three films, but I also grew so much as a person. And I've learned from Lakota Elder to a rodeo cowboy to these nomads.

50:17I've learned so much about life and humanity. So when I read that treatment, I felt like electrified because I was given a Greek play. I was given a Greek play where gods get to discuss everything about human nature based on their own relationship. Like each Greek god had different relationship and they focus on different aspects of the human nature. So they're biased and they're arguing about it. I go like, wow, this feels old. Again, I feel like I'm telling an older story, archetypal story. So I was so excited. And you've said that while there are overall more people and resources and whatever, the overall experience for you as a filmmaker, it's sort of the same people around the world.

51:10Nate Moore, who was also Ryan Coogler's producer on Panther, Nate Moore is a great producer. He comes from indie film. So he really tried very hard to, I don't think it's always the case, but in my experience, he tried really hard to keep it. It's just me, him, and Kevin. for the biggest changes. And then, again, there's 27 people, the HODs, right, sort of around you. And like Jim said, it boiled down to three, four people when you're on set. If you have a really good producer, it's the biggest difference, a producer on set who is going to create that environment. We are about to hit the five-year anniversary of your Oscar night for Nomadland, which was a pretty weird night because the only time the Oscars were done in a train station because of COVID, which had just started, which had already just forced you to have your premiere at a drive-in, the Telluride in LA at a drive-in theater.

52:08Very weird time to come out. When there was a fire over the mountains and you can see the ashes falling. It was so apocalyptic. People had to be there. I guess a couple of just really quick questions about that Oscar night because it is something that only a few people were actually there for, unlike other Oscars. I guess when you think back to that night, what stands out the most to you? You want the positive stuff? Good and bad. Oh, well, I mean, it's good in the most delicious way. You know, you haven't seen people for a long time. It was the first time we were allowed to be in the same rooms.

52:45The entire campaign was done on Zoom. And then the length they went through to COVID test us. My God, we have to individually, days before, multiple times to go to this special place to get tested. And then we all show up feeling like, are we going to contaminate the world by gathering? And it also feels wrong. We were in the Union Station and around that area, there were people who didn't have homes. and it was just, you just feel like, what are we doing? You know, like, what are we doing? And then, but once you get there, and because there's nobody else but the filmmakers and the writers and the producers and the actors, just all the craft people and the people who are actually on set, not anybody else, it was like a tiny film festival in, like, Nebraska.

53:46so that I mean there isn't even an audience no it was like a whole backyard film festival and we're just cheering each other on yeah it's like back in film school no I describe it's almost like a film school festival where we we're our own audience so that was really really beautiful but at the same time there's some dissonance there I did feel I think all of us felt a little disassociated probably okay how about So Fran wins Best Actress for the third time. I was so – I guess we were all so surprised. I don't – yeah. Had you ever heard her reference inclusion writers before? Because nobody – a lot of people were like Googling.

54:29She explained that in one of her interviews. Look it up. No, I will. I'm not going to say here. No, but had you heard her talk about it before? Well, she explained that the nuances is important. You know, she later on explained. Sure. So I heard it like the rest of the world. Yeah, yeah. But I also think the nuance that she later on says important is important too. If that's what you're asking. No, well, I was just curious. It was something because everybody's like. But for our company, as she likes to call it, for Nomadland, it was naturally half and half. Yeah. No, no, no. And I'm just curious if it was a term people used.

55:05I had never heard of. Nomadland, no. No. Okay. Stormrider. Yeah, right. Storm Red because we have code names for ourselves when we go through the border. And then Fran Howell, I remember, at that Oscars. Remember? Because I think you had lost Sound Mixer. We lost our Sound Mixer who was on the Rider with us and No Melon. His name is Wolf. Okay. That was a nice tribute. How about you? I mean, you take home two Oscars in one night. Just the second woman and first woman of color to ever win Best Director. How did you process that? I had a lot to deal with at that time. I thought it was a busy time.

55:40You know, life stuff. Life stuff. And I had a lot to deal with at the time. So I probably could have processed it better, meaning like I probably should have enjoyed it more and told myself, you did a good job. Instead, I was a little too focused on the things I've done, the things that didn't quite work out at that time and not appreciate what that meant. and acknowledge the hard work it took to get them. That was amazing. Last one about that night. Your other Oscar, other than director, was for Best Picture, which is usually the last award of the night, but not that night, which was surprising to a lot of people because they decided to do Best Actor last.

56:22What do you remember of that? Was it just the whole way that went down? I think you know the answer to that. No, I honestly don't. What's the question? What do I remember? Did it surprise you? What did you think about the fact that they changed up the order and also the way that worked out? Because I think most people— I don't know how I was in the room. I don't think I was in the room. When they did Best Actor? Because they told me—because we were backstage. Oh, because you had just won Best Picture. Yeah. I don't think we were even—no, we were in the room. Okay. Yeah, that's right. Because I didn't remember—by the time we come out, it was over.

56:58By the way, it's very different than the Oscars I've seen later on. The normal ones. No, it was over because then we were all in a little tent. Yeah. And there's like a few people there. It's like we just won two Oscars and there's nobody. There's like no one there. Literally no one there. And then the security is like getting you out. Like, don't put your mask on. Don't look at each other. But no, we were backstage when that happened. And by the way, the rooms are so small. You have to be so far from each other. Not everyone can all sit in there. You have to wait outside for your category. They were moving people around, yeah.

57:30Yeah. And then I went to the bathroom. I couldn't even get back in for one of our categories. Thank God we didn't win. Oh, my gosh. Okay. So we've said 2020 Nomadland made for$5 million. 2021 Eternals made for$236 million. And then you have had what you described to all of us at that roundtable as a, I think, a midlife crisis or a nervous breakdown. I forget which one you – Oh, I was going to say nervous breakdown. Not a nervous breakdown. That sounds – I didn't say that. A little dramatic. Okay. Okay, midlife crisis. And I guess I just wonder. It's a slow chip away. Well, so there's those four years between Eternals and Hamnet.

58:08Obviously, you came out of it great, at least as a filmmaker. I don't know, I assume. No, I feel good. I feel good. So what happened in those four years that changed who you were by the time you came back to do Hamnet? Well, getting older, you know, hitting your 40. And as a woman, my body changes a lot during that time. and it's a beautiful change, you know, in a way I have people describe it as like a quickening because you can't just fuck around anymore. And especially if you're in tune with things, you go, whoa, you know, and then the intuition actually is sharper. And then suddenly a lot of things that you use to numb yourself or try to push it aside, it just bubbles up.

58:53And that's what a midlife crisis is. It's actually really good. you know it's really really good because my my my mentor even though i don't know him carl young would say that you spend the first half of your life to build an identity and then you spend the rest of your lives to break it apart so you can go back to who you really are i think that's really beautiful yeah it's like seasons changing you know and so i experienced a lot of losses as well in many ways, like physically, emotionally, but also spiritually. And I think when all these breaks that was so certain, the foundation started to go, in that moment, you're at a crossroad.

59:43I had a choice to, and every time those disappointments, those difficult moments in my career and life happen, there's always a bit of a crossroad. And at the crossroad, you could, in a way, sort of try to go back, try to fight with your life to go back to what you used to be, hold on to what's left, or surrender and then go, like, take me. You know, show me what do you want. You know, something bigger. What do you want me to do? Yeah, and I think that that requires a commitment to go on a journey. It's very much like if you're a storyteller, not a hero's journey, but a goddess's journey. It's a descent.

1:00:31You've got to have to descend into yourself and then hopefully come back up. It's interesting, though, because you're talking about maybe there's a sign or something that you should go on a different, right, like where you should go next. And for a lot of people, they might say that getting a phone call from Steven Spielberg is the sign to do whatever that is. And in this case, he's saying, I believe, along with Sam Mendes, right, that, hey, we want to— Not him personally on the phone. I want to clarify that. If he talked— You would have said yes. Well, no, I would have said yes. I wouldn't have said, like, I'll call you back.

1:01:02Let me think about it. You know, I would be a little— It wasn't him. It was Jeff Brody who was an emblem at the time. Okay. No, I love— I love you, Jeb. No, it was because people say, like, Stephen called you and you say, no, thank you. No, I wouldn't. That would be scary. But for the record, why did you say no and then what turned you around? I didn't say no, no. I just – I was working on Dracula and I was very sure that's going to be my next film. I've worked on it. I'm still working on it very passionately. So that was my dedication. It was Dracula. And so then when this came to me, at first it felt like a very easy film to make.

1:01:46It was like, oh, this seems contained compared to Dracula. This seems like, you know, like this is a drama and it is contained in one family. I mean, it turned out to be the hardest film that I made. But then I just didn't think, based on the log line, you know, Shakespeare, mother losing a child, historical. none of these is obvious to me that I'm the right person for it. Because you've said the mothers in your previous films were all having challenges and different. It wasn't. This was just a character unlike any that you've built a film around. No, especially that kind of powerful, nurturing, unconditionally seeing, holding Divine Mother, that kind of archetype doesn't exist in my film, except as nature.

1:02:41Yes. Last three quick things, if I can, if you don't mind. I was at your Telluride premiere there where you led everyone through, essentially, I don't know if this is the right phrase, but like a guided meditation. It's a breathing exercise. A breathing exercise, which was something, one of many unusual or unconventional techniques that you used on this movie to work with Jesse Buckley and Paul Mescal and everybody else, which included children and extras. And I guess I just wonder, and I mean, there are other things where there's a behind-the-scenes photo of you in that film where Jessie's lying in the forest having given birth and you're crawled up next to her.

1:03:20That's the photo they use for my director. Not purposely for focus, but that's what everybody uses. With you, like the behind-the-scenes. I have other photos, you know? No, and I'm just so curious. Some of these techniques seem to maybe have come out of that four years. Where did some of these different directing approaches come from? There's nothing I do on set. Actors who went to acting school hasn't done it. Do you know what I mean? They would do that to get themselves into character. They do that in their own trailers. And because I've worked with a lot of non-actors, I've gotten used to having to create a container for them because they are not going to do things on the spot, you know, and then they just aren't that.

1:04:04I have to wait and move around them. So I have that training. On Hamnet, it was sometimes we don't realize that the walk between an actor's trailer to the set is not enough for them to be able to somatically drop into that character within that scene. Also, everyone is talking to them and their makeup and everything. So that's why some of them have to do method acting because they have to stay in it all the time. But that's not healthy. That's not healthy for them, for their loved ones. And especially for a film like this, there's no way Jesse is going to stay in that the whole time. So I have learned be kinder to myself.

1:04:54How do I move into real raw emotions, allow myself to feel it, and also take my time to then get out of it? For those four years, I learned a lot of tools from great teachers of containers to help myself to work through my own grief. So I can do what Agnes did. I can express my grief, and I can do it like what Will did, which is I can tell a story. I do it through creativity and I do it through somatically. So then when I get to set, it was really important for us to make that transition for our actors who are modern-day shamans. You know, like shamans used to put their bodies through great, intense experience in order to channel through something as medicine for the tribe to receive a mirror.

1:05:46And so these actors made that decision. and I found it really satisfying to give them the permission to be performed and to feel sacred with the work they do. And that means a slow transition into the scene that like involve everyone on set. And so the PA and the sound mixer and the grip, everyone feel like they are holding the tempo safe for Jessie. You know, and she feels that. And that takes some maneuver for people in leadership, me including the producers, to allow no cynicism around the work these actors are doing. And so in a way, I will step on that stage. I have no cynicism towards my audience either.

1:06:34I just know that in this crazy busy world they're in, take three breaths together, it's nice. It's a nice feeling for them to transition into the journey they're going to. And so I feel very open-hearted when I'm there, when I'm on that stage. And that's the only North Star you can follow to make choices in your life. And it obviously really worked, and they responded to it. Okay, number two of three here. What about Hamnet are you proudest of? I mean, I guess there's—now we've talked about all these films. Each one of them are special in different ways. But what for you makes Hemnet something that I think rightly you're very proud of?

1:07:22Personally. Well, Ryan said to me at Taylor, right, Kugler, that he's like, I see you in this. You finally allowed yourself to be seen. I'm like, back at you. Sinners, I see you in there. You finally allowed yourself to be seen. you know I was he was like you're hiding behind other things they're beautiful films but this this is you lastly I wonder what you've made of the reactions to the film from Telluride on then there's the I think the audience award at Toronto and all these things but here's here's one that I'm going to quote back in front of you and also for listeners so they because this one I I thought was unlike anything I've ever heard somebody say about another film and I think you looked pretty stunned when this was said in Palm Springs recently.

1:08:12This is Jane Fonda, quote, introducing you guys for a group honor, quote, this is what film is supposed to be. This is a perfect film, in my opinion. It's ironic that a film about Shakespeare or about his family has little to do with words. It's beyond words. If you give yourself over to it, you can feel the scales falling off of your heart as you watch. You feel yourself being taken down to bedrock. It's a primal film that I believe could only have been made by a woman like Chloe. This was a great year for films. There are so many great films this year and so many great performances, but Hamnet is in a world of its own.

1:08:46Everyone in the theater where I was, like me, was sobbing. And I'm sure the others, like me, if you asked why, would not have been able to say. But I was taken somewhere that I have never been before. I feel so proud of being in the business of moviemaking when I see a film like Hamnet. And I'm so thrilled and honored to have been asked to come here and honor this movie, a perfect film and a great, great piece of art. Close quote. How did you process that? I think we were stunned and like moved to the bones. We were shaking when we went up there. We didn't know what to say. It was – but, you know, I understand what she's saying.

1:09:25and it is what I'm proud, very proud of Hamnet is the us as a collective the people that made this film created a container right, we were containing our actors and they were containing us, there are days where my costume designer were producing me having a difficult day, the whole community you know, I learned making Hamnet that leadership the strength of leadership comes from interdependence, not dominance. And this container for a group of people to get together, to hold each other's joy and pain, is how we survive as a species. And I think what Jane is saying and feeling is that cinema and storytellers have that responsibility to create these containers and to allow ourselves to come into this space.

1:10:22and when the light goes out, we don't hide our vulnerabilities. We don't put the mask on, no matter how risky it is. And we put ourselves, we make the commitment, and we have no cynicism around that. And then we hope that a container is created for two hours for our tribe to be able to feel safe enough to shed something. Well, I can't put it better than she did, so I won't try. But congratulations, and I'm so excited. I know we've got a lot more things coming from you, from Dracula, which you mentioned, to Buffy the Vampire Player, talk about range. We were redoing a sequel essentially to that.

1:11:14I heard maybe a play a version of our town that you might still play a play but anyway can't wait to see what's next and thank you so much for doing this thank you for asking great questions

1:11:36thanks for listening to awards chatter we really appreciate it and would really appreciate you taking just a minute more to subscribe to the podcast and to leave us a rating and review on your podcast app and to follow us on Twitter and Instagram where our handle is at awards chatter on those platforms we announce upcoming guests and provide details about special monster energy everybody knows white monster zero ultra that's the OG it kicked off this zero sugar energy drink thing but ultra is a whole line up now you've got strawberry dreams Blue Hawaiian, Sunrise, and Vice Guava. And they all bring the monster energy punch.

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1:12:55...live recordings of the podcast that you can attend. Until next time, thanks again for tuning in.