Harrison Ford - 'Shrinking'

33:53Now somebody's offering you a multi-film deal when you don't necessarily, this is the first time you're playing a lead in a film, and you say no to the sequels before you, as it turned out, I'm sure it was like the best negotiating thing you ever did, but what made you say no until the film came out to sequels? Ignorance. Hubris. It's so funny that you, because the others signed it, right? They did. I was used to making choices. Yeah. I mean, literally, I would turn down an acting job if I didn't think it was as good as the carpentry job I was doing. So I just had formed a habit that led really to not being busy with stuff that wasn't going to make a difference.

34:49Yeah. Yeah. So we're talking in February 2026. Next month will be 50 years since you guys began principal photography on that first Star Wars. I wonder, I guess at what point, it sounds like it wasn't during the making of it, so was it opening weekend? When was it that you realized that you had grossly underestimated what this was going to do as a film, for you? Well, we never saw it. We didn't have playback, you know, video playback. We didn't have very much say in what we were doing. Suggestions would come later as the series continued. There was room then for some input. But at that point, in the first one, stand here and say this.

35:42Really? Yeah. Yeah, really. Okay. but when that ship flew over the audience and that rumble came out of the speakers and I was sitting next to George when he showed it for the first time in San Francisco in a proper theater I knew that it was powerful I didn't know that it would be commercially successful but I knew that it was powerful I mean that's the opening of the movie the rest of the stuff that is part of the attraction of that is some real deep cultural stuff that underlies it all that is real genius in George's what his choices are I know somebody else who was at that screening in San Francisco as I understand it was a person who's unfortunately been gone for many years and is kind of not all that remembered, but I've been doing some digging into him named Ashley Boone.

36:53Do you remember Ashley Boone? Yes, very much so. Yes, he was an executive. I guess Fox. Well, at Fox, I think, and then later at Paramount. Yeah, I think that's right. He was head of publicity and marketing, I think, at Paramount. One of the first black studio execs. Yes, he was a real gentleman. Yeah, yeah. And I loved working with him. That's great to hear. When the film, first one comes out and is so successful, and, I mean, you're on lunchboxes pretty quickly and all of that. Well, I wasn't. I went away and did three movies. Right away. I went away and did three movies that were not exceptional movies, I think.

37:40but it had some potential because I wanted to do the next iteration of Star Wars, but I wanted to be paid for. Sure. So I had to get my price up and I had to get my billing up. Sure. And that happily accrued to both Carrie and Mark. Yes, yes. That because we had a favored nation's clause in our contract, no one was paid more than somebody else. So they had to pay me, they had to pay them. That's great, yeah. But I guess the fact that the response, which was pretty immediate, was that something that you personally, as a guy who previously would have been able to, I assume, go to the supermarket and not be hassled or go do whatever, how quickly did that change and how did you acclimate?

38:37I don't think it took... I don't remember being famous. I don't remember people coming up to me on the street for years after. Really? No, I don't think so. But I was working. Sure. That's what I wanted. All I wanted out of it was to feed my family and to have work to do. I'm just thinking though on a civilian level as a guy who had been scraping it together between the carpentry and the acting and all that Like what did your wife make of this? What did your parents make of this when you suddenly are you go from being a guy who Had never been the lead of a movie to being a huge Movie star like that's a pretty quick thing.

39:28How did had if not yourself feeling very differently about it? Like, how did your loved ones, what was their reaction? Well, I think they were relieved. You know, I mean, but, yeah, I mean, they were not, we're not doing an autobiography here, but there's a lot of things in between there. Some complicated, some not. But first of all, I don't think I'm that distinctive looking. I think I'm kind of an average looking person. And I don't think that, you know, I think it took people a while to realize that I was that guy. When they did over the years, when that became a bit harder, I wonder, and I've seen you talk about this a few times.

40:23I think one time was on Inside the Actor's Studio, that one of the things that enables somebody to be a skilled actor is being able to observe people behaving normally. And when that no longer is possible, is that something that was difficult or challenging for you? And also, was that something that in any way fed your, I know now, like decades old desire to go fly or go do, you know, to be a pilot? I think that even preceded this, but I wonder, do you think that's part of the appeal? No. I mean, I think I have different boxes in my life, different silos. There's my family. There's flying. There's the work I do in conservation.

41:07There's the work I do in movies. And there's my family. Yeah, yeah. You know, certainly there's crossovers. Things are all linked. It seems like there were sort of overlapping threads at that time, which makes sense. My understanding is, for instance, that Indiana Jones, or the first one at least, Raiders, came out of George and Stephen getting away on opening weekend of Star Wars and Stephen being with him. and they're talking about other ideas, I guess. But something like that, which would be, I guess, just for people to manage the chronology here, 77, 80, 83 are the first three Star Wars. But in between that, you do for Coppola, Apocalypse Now, just a small thing, but that's a pretty important movie.

42:05That was in between 1 and 2. In between 2 and 3 is Raiders. I just wonder, since that's another thread that goes through so much of your life and career, the Indiana Jones part, first of all, my understanding is that thankfully Tom Selleck couldn't get out of his TV deal, right? No, I'm almost never the first choice for any of what I've done. It's always been somebody else's job. That's so funny. But no, he unfortunately, or fortunately, he had a contract to do a television series, Magnum P.I., which he went on to do very successfully. But when it turned out that there was that conflict, I guess it surprised them because they'd given him the part.

42:56George called me up and asked me to read the script and then go over and see Stephen. I had not met Stephen. Never. I read the script in a couple hours. Thought it was unbelievable that it was potentially possible. I went over and talked to him and walked away about an hour later with the representation that I had the job. And because, with no disrespect to Deckard, these are probably the two characters that you're most associated with Han Solo and Indiana Jones, I found it interesting. People would often ask you years ago, and I'm sure through the years, to talk about, you know, compare and contrast or your experience, your feelings about them.

43:51It sounds like there were two things that in some ways differentiated them. I'm not that pleased, as always, if I say anything wrong, I want you to. No, no, silly. You know, sounds like you appreciated that Indiana Jones was maybe a little bit more intellectual and that there was a bit more room for perhaps creative input, such as just as one example, I guess, maybe the scene that for a lot of people comes to mind. One of the first that comes to mind, you know, in the Cairo market, the guy with the sword and then you just shoot him. That's something that you suggested, right? Well, I suggested it, and Stephen said I was just thinking that too.

44:37Of course. Of course. But, yeah, I mean, we'd just done a fight scene between a whip with Indiana Jones armed with his whip. and he fought off seven swordsmen and now he's the best swordsman of all in contest for another three days of shooting and I had dysentery, could only stay out of my trailer as long as a load of film. My wife at the time was so ill that she was being given morphine I said let's just shoot this son of a bitch that's hilarious and so that third of these kind of characters that you've returned to over the years just to certainly give our due to Blade Runner and Ridley Scott and your collaboration there I guess the thing when you think back to that one which again years and years later you revisit first of all it sounds like more challenging than your usual shoot Is that fair to say?

45:4650 days in the rain at Warner Brothers that night. Yeah. Not ideal. And Ridley. Yeah. Well, that leads. Well, that's, I mean, he'd put me in that place. Right. Well, that leads to the next thing there. Just the quick thing there is that it seems like there were. We had a basic disagreement. Well, how would you describe? Because I was going to say about, it seems like there was perhaps something to do with the voiceover and perhaps something to do with whether or not. Well, the voiceover had a lot to do with that. I sat at my, the script came with a voiceover. Yes. The whole movie, there was a voiceover that ran through it.

46:24Yeah. I said, I'm playing a detective. These scenes do not have me doing detective work. I talk about it, but I don't do it. How about we do it and don't talk about it so much? and so we sat at my table and I think that everybody went into it with an intention to see if we could do this and we put the necessary information in the scenes and now made me happy it seemed to satisfy them but at the end when we were finished someone felt that it required a voiceover and I did about six different versions of it. And every time I went, there was another person that was directing it. Ridley had been taken off the picture at that time.

47:23Wow. I thought it was rubbish and I resisted that. But I also had gone into the film with the understanding that the character that I was playing, that I knew that there was a difference between Ridley's idea of that character and mine. In terms of whether or not he himself was a... Whether the character was a replicant or not. Yes, yes. And I felt strongly that I had to believe that he was a human being in order to give him the capacity to communicate with other human beings, the audience. In order for me to reach the audience, I had to feel that I had human equipment, emotional equipment.

48:12And Ridley wanted that stripped out of my actor brain. So, you know, there was a bit of a contest, but he owns the scissors, and he is the director. Right. And I didn't mind the disagreement, and I think the film was great. Absolutely. Even if it took some people a few years to come around on it. Yeah. I didn't say perfect. I said great. It is great. It is great. Now, the fact, though, that... But I also loved doing the second one. Yes, with yours later. It was a very, very different experience, but really consistent, I think, with the first one, and I appreciated it. And Denny Villeneuve. And Denny and Roger Deakins.

49:03Oh, my God, yeah. I mean, it was an extraordinary experience working with them both. I wonder if the films that we've talked about up to this point influenced your feelings about the importance of finding a director that you were on the same wavelength as because what what I noticed is that in the years following what we're talking about there's a lot of multiple collaborations so there's the there yes there continue to be things like like Temple of Doom with Stephen but also two with Peter Weir with back-to-back with Witness in 85 and then Mosquito Coast in 86, which I know is one of your favorites.

49:41And I'll say about Witness, that was your one and criminally so far only, but one Oscar nomination. But those are back-to-back Peter Weir. Then there's two with Mike Nichols, Working Girl in 88 and Regarding Henry in 91. Then there's two with Alan Pakula, Presumed Innocent in 1990 and The Devil's Own in 97. there's the two Jack Ryans with Philip Noyce. Is this coincidental or were you seeking out? You left out Sidney Pollack. Of course, yeah. Two with Sidney Pollack. Sabrina and? The other one. The other one. Well, so were you now, because I think like you picked Peter Weir, right, for Witness.

50:23Is this you? It was the first time I had an opportunity to have some say in who the director was. and Jeffrey Katzenberg was running Paramount at the time. And this was the first time that anybody ever sent me a script and then asked who I inquired as to who I thought might be the best director for it. Whoa. That's a big thing. Well, it was to me. And what were you looking for in a director from that point forward? I was looking at, you know, I had seen a film by Peter, I think it was Years of Living Dangerously, that I thought was brilliant and had the right kind of energy. And Witness was an extraordinary experience because we only had about four weeks of pre-production, I believe.

51:23and because Peter knew nothing about the Amish, he went to research the Amish and I went to research the police side of the story and I spent a couple of weeks with the head of homicide in the Philadelphia Police Department. A lot of the experience of that period of time was in the movie. But it was a great experience and I really enjoyed working with the director more than once. And in that case with Peter, the second one, why is, people might look at the grosses or things and not realize that Mosquito Coat, not expect that that would be among your personal favorites. It's not like it was a huge triumph, but for you it meant a lot.

52:09Why Mosquito Coat? Because the first time I got to play a leading character that was not a leading man. How do you describe the difference? I describe the difference usually in this way. When the part can be described as a leading man, you have certain responsibilities. You have to make the audience happy to be with you. Right. You usually end up supplying an easy answer to a difficult dilemma that's been driving the film, and then you end up with a soft solution, as it were. This was a character who was dangerous. He was not easily accepted by an audience, and yet he was running the show. Yep.

53:11And I liked the challenge of that. I liked the reality of it. Yeah. I guess another thing that is sort of seen as the responsibility of a leading man is, and you've quoted, I think, Bob Daly talking about, you have to, we're paying for your face, right? Yeah. So I guess it was part of the appeal. And also, I guess, generally, the leading man is, quote, unquote, the good guy or the hero or whatever, was part of the appeal of the fugitive. Even if it was just a beard, could do something a little different with your face. No, I mean, it was a whole different thing than Fugitive. Fugitive was just, and by the way, it was a rough script when we started.

53:56A lot of work was done while we were in production, and it was a bit chaotic, but a brilliant editor, and Andy Davis did a really nice job shooting the movie, but I think the editing of it really got it to that sweet spot. Dennis Rueckler took the murder of my wife and changed it from color to black and white and made a huge difference in the energy of the film somehow. This person I'm about to mention had a very small part in that film. I think she was the coroner, but she's gone on to good things, and that's Jane Lynch. And when I did this podcast with her, she remembered also that the script wasn't really there, but that also she remembered that you were very instrumental in crafting a story there to the extent that probably you deserved a writing credit.

54:54But regardless, just as an example of that, can you talk about, again, if there's a scene that flashes to people's mind from that film, it's probably you being cornered by the dam by Tommy Lee Jones. And there's very condensed dialogue that essentially encapsulates the whole story. And I think you were... Well, I think there was about two and a half pages of dialogue written. Yeah. And Andy and I in conversation and Tommy, I think as well, recognized that in this particular case, the tension of the film could best be contained and generated with less words. and so we really whacked a lot of the dialogue out of there.

55:49And at the end of the day, I think it's just, let me just find my note because it was really, it's like, and it's also interesting there, I think you're - It came down to, I didn't kill my wife. I know. That's not the way it goes. I didn't kill my wife. I know he didn't say I know. What am I saying? No, I think you're right. Oh, I don't care. I don't care. That's right. That's much better. No, the I know was I love you from Empire. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's interesting, though, because not very many actors who I am aware of want less dialogue. and yet you have repeatedly here talked about and and I I don't think it's coincidence you want fewer things to say so that you can communicate it through behavior is that the idea yeah I think my most frequent note in the script that I'm not loving which is writing the margin is NGE is the abbreviation for not good enough.

57:04And that's, I don't know why I chose those words, but it's like there's something here, but it's just not resolved. It's not distilled yet. Just to tighten it up. It needs some more worry. I don't know what it is. And often you don't know what it is until the other actor does something that makes it come alive or something. I mean, it's a it's a fucking mystery this business it is not straightforward how much of your decision making as time has gone by has been kind of rebelling against the idea of i don't want to be constrained by the idea of what a leading man is like you obviously i never think about it but let's but i i believe you but i want to ask you about like something like k-19 yeah so this is k-19 the widow maker for katherine bigelow 2002 by which point if you said to somebody name when you hear hero in American movies or something like that your face your name is what comes to mind and yet I know from previous interviews we've done that you don't even like the idea the idea of calling somebody a hero is reductive somebody does heroic things somebody whatever but like it's it seems like it's it's reductive and confining and annoying to you maybe i wouldn't go that far i mean it's just it's just what that movie is going to be like yeah and i do all kinds of movies with all kinds of people happily and i like doing different kinds of movies with different kinds of people but my personal preference is when it's not necessary don't talk about the story make it experiential for the audience allow them to gain knowledge as the scene progresses don't tell them what to think it's insulting the first time I had the opportunity to interview you was for a movie called 42 which was 13 years ago now and I want to read back to you something that you said because I think it's really interesting.

59:18And this is in response to the idea that the filmmaker, Brian Helglund, had initially not wanted to even meet with you, it sounds like, about playing Branch Rickey. Like there was some, it just didn't seem like, it seemed like a non-starter that he was going to put Harrison Ford as this kind of overweight. I don't really remember how it came up. Well, let me, I'll read you what you said at that time. I understand completely why he didn't want Harrison Ford. Looking at the kind of work that I've done in the past, you might have no clue that I was ambitious for this kind of thing or that I had the capacity to do it, close quote.

59:53But I guess, again, from the Bob Daly school of thought that we're paying for your face, but in this case was probably the first time you've been allowed to go under heavy makeup. Well, and in K-19, I was— True. I really, those are the two probably strongest different kinds of characters that I've had the opportunity to play. And I really, those two films were really fun for me. I really loved both of those films, actually. and I loved acting and not being a leading man. I was going to say, it seems like in a way those... I always wanted to be a character actor. I had never thought that I would be a leading man.

1:00:47That doesn't make any sense. I don't look like a leading man. It just wasn't in the cards for me. But I don't know. I mean, I got to play leading parts because the films I was in had success, and that success carried me along, and it has carried me along. But a big part of that success is being in the right place at the right time, luck, persistence. Yeah. I mean, do you remember the other people who were in the contract development process at the same time as you at Columbia or Universal. I mean, how many of them are still at it? There is no question that luck has been a big part of my life and, if you will, my success.

1:01:51But it's not just my luck. It's the luck of the people that I'm working with. Their qualities are carrying me. Their ideas are inspiring me. Their industry is producing a thing that I have not the talent to do. I'm not a director. I've never wanted to direct. I find it really fulfilling doing what I do.

1:02:26And I enjoy it as much as I ever could possibly have imagined. Now doing something I'd never thought that I would be doing, a television show in its fourth season, Yeah. A comedy playing a shrink. Come on. Well, so just as the setup to the shrinking portion of this, I just want to note that you, in the last 10, 11 years, have both gone into television with two serialized television projects for the first time since the contract days, right? with both, of course, 1923 and Trinking, but also interweaving this with sort of explorations of aging and death with the characters that you've been associated with forever.

1:03:26We had The Force Awakens for Star Wars in 2015. We had the Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny in 2023. And there was the most recent Blade Runner 2049 in there as well. Blade Runner 2049 and 2017. So I guess I just wonder, before we get to this chapter of you becoming a great, or maybe certainly always, having the opportunity to be this great character actor on television, what's it been like to revisit and in a sense, it seems like say goodbye to some of those characters that have been such a big part of your life? Well, I think the one character that I had the greatest intentionality about and wanted to see the result of his history on him was Indiana Jones.

1:04:22I wanted to see him bereft of his youth, his strength. I wanted to see him, he was a thief, a grave robber. He wasn't always held to the highest moral standards. But I wanted to have some fun, really, with aging and with the loss of power. and that's what I that's what Jim Mangle and I were the script Jim produced was fantastically complicated and deep but the part that most interested me was he's coming to terms with with who he had become who he was Yeah. And, I mean, somebody once said, are you going to remake every movie you've ever made? I said, yeah. Yeah. Why not? And you've been trying to kill Han Solo since Return of the Jedi, right?

1:05:38Well, you don't need to be dead.

1:05:45But, you know, look, I've mentioned luck enough, but you can't mention it enough because wonderfully talented people don't get the opportunities to to enjoy the luxury of choice, of working with people that you want to work with, doing what inspires you. So it would be about maybe four years ago approximately that you hear about these two TV projects, I believe Shrinking came to you shortly before 1923, but 1923 came out shortly before Shrinking, or at least went on the air. What made you, as somebody who in all these years had not been doing TV, suddenly now be open to not just one but two shows?

1:06:56Was there something about your own feelings about television or the people you consult? You know, you don't go to work saying, now I'm doing television or now I'm doing a movie. It's the same thing. It's storytelling. It's creating behavior to help tell the story in concert with a group of people. So I don't really see that much difference, except there are a few things that really make it fun. You work fast. you can work faster and that's fun for me I like getting there getting the work done going home I just you know I love the challenge I love the danger if you will of of the work that that I'm able to do and I like the company.

1:08:03I was just going to say, it seems like, I mean, with 1923, you're back with Helen Marin, who had been in Mosquito Coast. With Shrinking, we... Helen had been cast first, by the way. And it was Helen plus the script that got my attention. And then with Shrinking, we're just seeing you with your colleagues from that, and it's like a level of fondness that I don't think you can fake. And it's just a colorful, great group that I've talked to Jason a lot and a bunch of characters from this project. I mean, in this case, the thing that I feel like I have to ask you about, it's about grief, but it's a comedy, which is I could see that having been quite a risky proposition.

1:08:48Can you actually make this funny? You guys certainly have. But what was it that comedy is not necessarily a genre that people have associated with you, even though there's a lot of very funny moments in your movies? What was that part of the appeal of shrinking for you that you could kind of show more of that side of yourself? I wasn't interested in showing myself as much as I was interested in what the idea of Paul and what he was going through would add to my understanding, add to my experience in life. And here I am now, I'm playing a guy with Parkinson's and I'm sitting next to Michael J. Fox.

1:09:35Season three, yeah, man. And this is serious shit, man. Yeah. This is not insignificant for me. Sure. And then I have the, and because it's not insignificant for me, I have the opportunity with all of the help of everybody else to bring that idea to them. was the as you understand it i mean michael j fox even though he hasn't didn't become involved with the show himself until season three bill lawrence who originated this with you guys had worked with him on spin city i believe and had been present this is when michael j fox i think was first confronting the seriousness of what he was facing and in fact i think addressed his company on that set in a way that may I have heard may have inspired the unbelievable monologue that you give at the end of season two, which was so powerful where you talk about just really being confronting what you're up against.

1:10:49Can you share some of that context around that? I think that I mean, here's what Jason said of your performance in that scene, which is echoed by everybody else who I know who has seen it, and it was recognized with your first Emmy nomination, all this, but Jason said, quote, the best acting I've ever seen, certainly in person, close quote, and it's an unbelievable thing to watch, that monologue. Can you just take me back to that? I had not known that that speech was written for Michael on Spin City, and now I was giving the same speech. And I didn't know that. Was it written for him or was it what he actually said to him?

1:11:36No, it was what he actually said. What he said to the company, yeah. I'm sorry. No, that's okay. But it was a nice piece of writing. Yeah. and there was a good day at the office. Yeah. Another thing some of your co-stars have talked about is how you sort of, the way they describe it, I think, is build in silent beats to your performance. So, you know, essentially to underscore that Paul is a, there's a loneliness there as well for what he's up against. Do you, is that something, you know, sometimes we project things onto, we think we see something or we project something out to others? Is that a conscious thing?

1:12:25Like, how are you? Yeah, I guess, is that real? Yeah, I mean, it's real for me. As you've noted, I have often asked for less words and more opportunity to just represent a reality for the audience that brings them into context of the emotional story that I'm trying to establish, or that we are trying to establish. I think the silences are as important as the words. I have always thought that.

1:13:09I think silence is...

1:13:15When you trust what you're saying, you can allow people a little time to think about it. If you don't trust what you're saying, just jam on through it and hope that nobody remembers what you just said. So this theme of season three, which is just now rolling out, according to Bill, is moving forward for better or worse. So in Paul's case, obviously his relationship's progressing with Wendy Malick's character. The Parkinson's, unfortunately, inevitably is progressing. But also this willingness to kind of lean on the people around him, which he had been so averse to doing before. And then, as you say, season three, we have Michael J.

1:14:00Fox coming in as a guest actor. And I want to just read you something that he said of you, which I think is about as high praise as you can get. Quote, I don't have to convince him I have Parkinson's, but he had to convince me he had Parkinson's. What I wasn't prepared for was how much of his own understanding of the disease he brought to it. I mean, I recognize Parkinson's in his eyes. The things I was feeling, I recognized in the way he was expressing himself. I was just brought to tears by it, close quote. That's pretty high praise from probably the person who is most associated with and done the most to raise awareness of and combat Parkinson's, right?

1:14:39Yeah.

1:14:44That's very generous. So with—oh, I'm sorry, please, please. But that's the nature that I'm in. Yeah, yeah, yeah. With the last couple minutes here, if I could do something just sort of a rapid fire, just the first thing that comes to your mind about a random assortment of things, if you could have your anonymity back for one day, what would you do? I'd walk around naked. You've starred in so many blockbusters. Which did you least expect to become the giant hit that it became? Star Wars. Star Wars. which film did you expect to become a giant hit that did not got nothing no problem yeah i haven't had too many that didn't do well it's nothing no it's fine it's fine who's one person who you theoretically could have worked with meaning they overlapped with you in life but didn't who you most wish you had worked with robert mulligan oh wow was there one was it to kill Mockingbird or something that you love that.

1:15:49Perfect movie. Perfect movie. Yeah. Which of your many iconic lines of dialogue, which I've resisted bringing up many of them. We didn't get into Air Force One. We didn't get into a lot of them here. Which of them is shouted at you the most? Get off my plane. How do you define a movie star? That's not something I do. I think of people as actors. I guess I don't think there's a job description that covers a movie star. coming at that slightly differently do you believe that it's possible for people to become a movie star in the way that you and others of your generation or prior i shouldn't say i mean you you've taken it to a different level than almost anyone but i guess is it still possible given oh lord yes i mean you think yeah i mean the talented people regardless of the strength of the industry are all over the place they're fantastically talented people that do not get the opportunities that they deserve but do you know when you think because it's a business sure and it's for profit but i guess i mean what i mean is that you know there wasn't cable television and streaming and the internet and smartphones and all the things that now compete for people's attention and also the unfortunate sides of things like paparazzi and tmz and all these things that take away some of the mystery yeah but when somebody comes along with with um you know and connects with the material and connects with the audience and there are too many people to consider naming yeah that there are as talented as the most successful of us that don't get the opportunity yeah that don't and I'm not saying that that their lives are inconsiderable because they're not you know rich and famous yeah yeah I'm just saying that that there are that there will continue to be people who want to tell stories who find their the mystery of their life a story that they're in yeah who recognize that that that's that stories are how we help interpret what happens in our lives.

1:18:42And that those stories can be powerfully instructive or useful or entertaining. And that each story that knits us together makes us stronger, better. And the stories that we tell ourselves define our quality and our compassion and our empathy. And stories that do that will always bring the people that tell that story an opportunity to shine. I've always seen and heard about you being particularly great with kids that grow up on your stuff and idolize you for all these years. So you've been great with them. I've also seen people not always be so great in response, such as I remember when the fires were happening maybe just over a year ago.

1:19:49You're just trying to get out of there and people are putting a camera in your face, right? So I guess I wonder, what does a movie star, quote-unquote, owe their fans? Respect. Yeah. No, no, no. I mean, we need to respect our audience. I'm sorry, you were asking what they... No, no, you said exactly that... Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I respect their differences, their independence. I respect their humanity. Yeah. And I want to bring them work that is because it represents me. I want to work with people that will bring an ambition for quality. Last three of these quickies. You've been as central to the theatrical moviegoing experience as anyone in the last 50 years.

1:20:56When you see something like Warner Brothers being sold to Netflix, which is a streaming service, or some of the other things that have been happening, certainly since the pandemic, when theaters were really up against it, are you concerned about the future of theatrical moviegoing? Does it matter how people consume things to you? Oh, I'm terribly concerned. I'm concerned, principal to the luck, as part of my story. I came up at a period of time when the movie business was at its zenith. when the movie business captured the zig heist of a culture and there was a transference, cross-feeding and the culture captured the zig heist of the movies.

1:21:59There is no zig heist to apply to anymore. We've been disassociated. We've been purposefully disaggregated into serviceable political economic units. there is an empty center that needs to be filled to bring the culture back together, to bring the culture and the movie business back together, to help for the movie business to be useful in the consciousness of an audience, a culture. Our community. Lastly, I've made you go back through your whole story here today, which I so appreciate, but I do wonder when you hear... I made me feel 85 fucking years old. I'm only 83. You've been so great with this.

1:23:03And I do wonder, though, when you sort of hear it all back at you, particularly the moments where things, again, could have gone one way instead of another. And I'm talking about the coin flip to come out west instead of east, the bathroom break at Columbia, the willing, being asked, being running into Lucas and Dreyfus, being willing and available to do the reading for Star Wars. We could go on and on and on with this. When you think about that, what do you think? And also specifically if your life hadn't unfolded the way it has, if you hadn't found acting or the opportunity to do it, what do you think your life might have been?

1:23:47I have no idea.

1:23:52I do know that my life has always been intention.

1:24:04I've always felt, you know, unsettled. I've always looked for the presence of answers, not the answers themselves, just the presence. I don't think I'm really a...

1:24:30I think a lot of what ends up accruing to the capacity or intentionality of what I do is the broken parts, the failures, the limitations, the guilt. All of that is part of who I am as well. And I think it shows. Even when, you know, and it's a, it's a, and it makes you emotionally conversant with the audience. what an incredible powerful thing or not a fucking word for it I don't know what to call it it's luck accident persistence I knew one thing about I knew one thing at the beginning. Everybody else was going to quit. They were going to give up. And I wasn't. Well, we are all the beneficiaries of that.

1:25:59So thank you for sticking with it. Thank you for doing this. I really so appreciate it. I know it's asking a lot to go through everything. No, it's actually instructive. I never think about it. I really don't. And it puts me in a frame of mind to really appreciate the incredible luxury of the opportunities. Awesome. Well, thank you. And I thank the world for going to the movies. Awesome. Thank you. Thank you.

1:26:54thanks for listening to awards chatter we really appreciate it and would really appreciate you taking just a minute more to subscribe to the podcast and to leave us a rating and review on your podcast app and to follow us on twitter and instagram where our handle is at awards chatter on those platforms we announce upcoming guests and provide details about special live recordings of the podcast that you can attend. Until next time, thanks again for tuning in.