Lisa Kudrow - 'The Comeback'

30:39Yeah, yeah. Because these are people who have a keen understanding of human nature and its deep, whether they are consciously aware of it or not, right? For anyone who thinks it was like Groundlings, Airhead number two, and then Off to the Races, would you mind sharing what your experience was with Frasier where this is 1993? It's not – I don't think it had – this is ahead of season one, right? This would also be your first time encountering somebody who is going to come up a few other times here, and that's James Burroughs. Well, I met James Burroughs when I did the Cheers guest star way back.

31:19Oh, that's right, because he was every episode. Oh, my God. Yeah. Okay, so you'd already met James Burroughs. Now what happens with Frasier, if you don't mind? Well, I should say that in between, it was very up and down. And we shot a pilot of Romeo and Michelle because it was Aaron Spelling and Doug Kramer who went, oh, well, they consistently get laughs. Let's try a pilot. And Robin Schiff wrote a pilot. Kim Friedman directed it. And it wasn't great. And so but it was sort of like the people around you, you know, your peers are you have your own pilot now, you two? Holy cow. and you get paid a pilot money and that's enough rent for at least a year it's up and down where it feels like okay then maybe there's cloud or something or no and then nothing and right and so it's just it's very up and down but I was proud of the guest starring roles I got I know Barry Kemp who would later be involved in Romeo and Michelle the movie was a fan of the play and I was brought in I don't know how many coaches I did Newhart that was Barry Kemp yeah that was his idea to have Romeo and Michelle ish in the finale so there was so much great stuff but but not the kind of stuff that means you can quit your day job, which for me was working for my father at his headache clinic.

32:51But then I get the Frasier pilot, and I didn't think that's how it was going to go for me, honestly. It wasn't. I thought, I was going to say this before, you know. I always imagined, because I, yeah, didn't look right, you know, to be cast as a series regular audition and get cast, that it would be I'd get a guest starring role. I'd then become recurring because I was funny. And then they would ultimately make me a series regular. Woo! And then you get syndication checks. Woo-hoo! So I auditioned for Frasier, you know, knowing, well, this would be come on. This is a sure thing because it's Frasier.

33:35It's going to go forever. It's the same guys that did cheers. I mean, holy cow. And I loved the part, and she wasn't dumb. It was a dream come true, and I knew how to audition. This is a Roz, a producer, a producer. Yeah, and I knew how to audition. I had that down through a teacher named Ian Tucker, who was Nana Visitor's brother. When I did Ladies Room with Nana, she introduced me to Ian, and that changed everything. I auditioned. Perry Gilpin was also at the network, and that's sort of who they wrote it for and had in mind, and I changed their mind. Temporarily. So then I'm there doing it, and I'm excited, and oh, David Hyde Pierce is fantastic, and Jane Leaves, and the whole cast, I'm so excited.

34:31and then we're rehearsing and having run-throughs and stuff and and jimmy is saying yeah they've got to rewrite this everyone's too mean to fraser they can't have this person be that mean too and i went oh okay he said so just don't do anything and i went oh all right so i didn't do anything and then you know the showrunners call me in and what you did in the audition i He said, oh, no, but, you know, Jimmy said, you know, that wasn't working. And they went, oh, okay. Anyway, and the next day, it was the nicest firing ever. They called and said, we're so sorry it's not working out. We're so sorry, but you really are great.

35:16And they sent me flowers and stuff. And they were so nice. And I thought, I am not one of the people, I think, for whom this career works out. It was just must have been crushing. You think that's your only chance probably, right? Yeah. I mean, I've done guest starring roles and I was a guest star on Mad About You before that. Her name was Karen. It was a great episode where Jamie and Paul meet and she's his date who he's not supposed to be with. And it was great. And with my dark hair. I was going to say, you weren't blonde until you got rejected, right? What was the connection there? So I got fired, and I'm kind of devised.

35:59Kind of, yeah, just wondering, huh, okay, now what? But I'd get up every morning, and I would walk and take a walk. And there was a Michel Richard. I don't know if you remember that. It's a French sort of bistro. And I would walk around and then go there and get a chocolate croissant and coffee, treat myself. have a cigarette, I was smoking, and then walk back home. So I'm walking, and my hair is brown, but I get gold highlights when I'm in the sun. And I'm usually not in the sun that much. So my hair starts getting gold, and then whenever I go to get it colored, I say, can you just match this?

36:42And so over six months, I slowly became blonde. Do you think that had any role in future opportunities? Do you think that the industry truly favored somebody who was blonde? Well, I don't know. Yeah. Honestly, I know it lightened me up. Really? Yeah. How so? I don't know. I don't know. It's just that's what I always knew. Yeah. But I think also just, you know, and I had said this to Richard Kind does not love this. And I'm sorry, but it's true. He called me up because I met him when I had done Mad About You. That's why I have to say initially when I did that first guest star, him and Lila and yeah, Kenzel.

37:32So we sort of became friends and he called me up and said, I just heard what happened. You got fired. And like, I don't know how you, I wouldn't be able to get out of bed. Like whatever he said. And I thought, oh, but I am getting out of bed. And I'm leaving my house. And I'm walking around. I'm putting one foot in front of the other. I'm better off than I thought. And, you know, it's just the ability to say or recognize, oh, I'm okay. Yeah. And let's see what happens next. Very soon after, right? You have a number of things where it's totally defying the rules of show business, right? You've been on Mad About You, and now you end up back on Mad About You as a different character.

38:22will get to in a moment the fact that you were on Mad About You and then obviously also able to be on Friends at the same. That doesn't happen. So anyway, though, how do you wind up back on Mad About You and here, I guess, in the highest profile, ditzy character yet, right? Right. Well, also, so that's May, right? I guess around when that's happened. April, maybe earlier. In June, I met at a party the man who'd become my husband, who I had met six years before. and thought, well, he's something special, but, you know, way out of my league. And I had nothing to lose when I met him again and just said, oh, look who it is.

39:02And we chatted and talked about tennis, and I went, okay. I never did this. Wrote down my number and said, well, give me a call. We can play tennis. I'd done it one other time. Nice. I didn't do that. Anyway, so that happened. And, I mean, I think hope is the thing that pulls you out of let's see what happens. And then I was, we were dating and I'm starting to run out of money and realized I think I have to look for a day job. What am I going to do? I worked for my dad. I can't do, you know, that again. It's not fair. Someone else is working there. And do I know how to be a waitress? I don't know.

39:41And figuring it out. And then my agent called one morning and said, OK, just because it's an offer and we have to tell you, mad about you. The character doesn't even have a name. And it's two lines. And you just did, you know, you were cast on Frasier Pilots. So we don't think you can do this. And they want you there in an hour. We don't even have sides. We don't even know what the two lines are. and I said oh I can't afford to say no and that's the best show on TV as far as I'm concerned I am going I'm getting dressed and I'm going right now and the whole way there I just said whatever it is just commit and make it funny listen commit make it funny yeah and it was hilarious I thought And had you not done that, I just want people to see the crazy how easily something else couldn't have happened.

40:43You know, how easily life can be different. Mad About You, I guess, what is it? One of the writers, Jeffrey Clarick, right? Was, I guess you couldn't yet be married, but was partners with David Crane, who's in the meantime creating, co-creating with Marta and. Yeah, with Marta Kaufman. Yeah. They're starting at that point. It's not yet friends, but we'll be friends. But again, now you've got this bit thing on Mad About You, you turned into a, you impressed them enough to have them say, we're going to expand this, keep coming back. Yeah, Danny Jacobson, by the end of that week, I'm sitting in the, you know, audience.

41:26They're not. No one's there. I'm just alone and watching Paul and Helen. And Danny comes up and says, you're really funny. And I said, oh, thanks. He said, would you be OK if we had you in five more episodes? And I went I almost cried. I just went, yeah, that would be that would be OK. I thought I don't have to get a day job yet. But then. So that's great news. But what was it that then made you even made you or. cleric or crane think it was even worth exploring the possibility of you doing another show when at this point you're now more involved in mad about you right well it was a recurring role i there was no contract that i was not a series regular yeah i it was just a guest star and so yeah jeffrey suggested to david because he's like how it's so hard to find a phoebe and he said don't You think she might be good?

42:23He said, yeah. So I, you know, called in to audition, went straight to producers. Yeah. And also and then I had to have a special audition with Jimmy Burroughs. Was that awkward, given that he was kind of the reason you were? I thought, you know, or well, he was in that he pointed out to the showrunners. Not right. What happened to Perry Gilberts? You know, this isn't a good fit. because yeah I the way I was doing it it was funny on first but but but so brutally snarky yeah I get it and I wondered like oh is this because he had fired me and they just want to make sure oh he's directing this all right then I might not get it and then go in and audition for him like oh okay Jesus all right but like I said thanks to Ian Tucker I knew what was my business and what wasn't my business.

43:17So I just went in, pleasant, did my thing in the auditions of that little monologue in the pilot. I wonder if I can just interrupt for one second. I want to, I'm going to read you that monologue back just because I'm going to ask you about it in a moment. Okay. Quote, this is the first thing, this is your audition, but it's also featured in the eventual first episode. Yeah. And And I think it's more than we ever learn else about Phoebe the entire show, right? So, quote, I remember when I first came to the city, I was 14. My mom had just killed herself and my stepdad was back in prison. And I got here and I didn't know anybody.

43:55And I ended up living with this albino guy who was like cleaning windshields outside Port Authority. And then he killed himself. And then I found aromatherapy. So believe me, I know exactly how you feel. Right. Close quote. That's what you're performing now much better than I did for Jimmy Burroughs. and I want to ask you just what do you remember about that audition and also how valuable was that monologue in terms of what you then did for the next several years? Oh, that monologue was the key to unlocking my take on Phoebe because to me what's funny, because I think, yeah, it's probably a challenge to make a person with that history funny, But I knew people who, in college too, who would just sort of make things casual like no big deal like that.

44:50And I just thought, oh, to do that with this would be really funny because how else do you cope with something like that? How do you keep going on? You know, she's not a victim. She's not feeling sorry for herself. It wasn't even like, and that's likable. You know, it wasn't that. It was just that's hilarious to me to just sort of disregard crushing things to most people. Because I think people sometimes may not including to some, I think that was not fresh in my mind that this was the whole backstory. It totally changes the way you think about her, I think. Yeah. You know, this is not just a, you know, a ditz who sings silly songs and whatever.

45:33Like there's anyway, I don't I don't want to interrupt you. No, no. Because I don't know what I'm not out there looking at it, honestly. I mean, I just thought that's hilarious that she's like saying it as if, you know, and my mother had died as we all we all know what that's like. And I was living in a car with that guy who cleaned windows and then he killed himself. You know, it's what a day. You know what I mean? Like what a year. But was that sort of that felt in at this point now it was like in your comfort zone that you could not not that it's easy, but that you could do that. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

46:10And Burroughs recognized that this time. Yeah. I mean, I guess because I it's just a monologue, right? I'm not even and it is tricky because you're not showing. Like how you even listen or respond to other people, it's just a monologue. I did it and it was just he and I in this teeny room wasn't even an office I mean it was an office that was empty except for a desk and two chairs that they put in and I did it and he just went no notes okay thanks got up and walked out and thought no notes either because you're hopeless right told you she's hopeless this one or yeah no notes it's perfect so I go so it was either that matter that, which are none of my business because nothing I can do about that.

47:06And when did you actually get it confirmed? No, later that day, I think. All right. So now they want you to go either to the studio or it was before going to the network. I don't know. And every audition, there were different actors. That you were playing. That are reading Phoebe. Are you serious? Yeah. They were not bringing back. and so what when you went back so when you were you ever considered for one of the other women no no but idiot that i am went oh but you know what i gotta say rachel is jewish and boy i love doing a jewish american princess i think i could make that really funny not even clocking that oh no this is sort of the romantic lead to ross right did you say to them that you'd like to be I told my agents, like, I can do Jewish American print, make that really funny.

48:01And so they said, uh-huh, all right, well, we'll tell them. They went, no, no, it's so hard for them to find Phoebe. They're not messing with that. So that was the sweet way of saying, yeah, you are not the romantic interest. Now, obviously, it comes together and it's presented eventually that Phoebe and Ursula, right, from Mad about you are twins. Right, sister, what was it? They're twins, identical twins. Yeah, well, that makes sense. I know. Here's me. Like, good question. No, they're identical twins. So different. But, I mean, that was partly, do you think, because as they're creating Phoebe for Friends, they're thinking of her as similar to Ursula?

48:40No. Or no? No, no. You know, they didn't know what night Friends was going to be on when they're creating, when I'm cast. they have no idea that they're going to be on mad about you is going to be on at eight friends is going to be on at 8 30 and then it was also mad about you still wants her to recur and i don't know how happy marta and david were about that to be honest with you because how now are you going to justify a woman that has the same voice and same head and body is on both shows. So, yeah, they had to let Ursula show up. And I don't know if Phoebe ever showed up on Mad About You. I can't remember.

49:29How's that? That's ridiculous. I think friends said no to that. Like, okay, drawing a line. Well, just to note, that pilot episode, the first one to air, goes on September 22, 1994. And we've discussed – like we had Warren Littlefield on this podcast talking about that whole must – he was – had programming at that time at NBC, structuring the must-see TV, that whole lineup and how do you play one against the other in terms of scheduling and all of that. But I just want to note – so you were not obviously unknown. You'd been doing other shows, and I'm sure people would occasionally recognize you or whatever.

50:09But at the time, on September 27th, not at all? No, no. They were not recognizing me except from Mad About You, Ursula. Really? Okay. Yeah. They were sort of. Yes. I got a cheers and jeers on TV Guide. That was so thrilling. Well, so here we are. Cheers. I got a cheers. A cheers. Not cheers. No cheers. Good. It was a cheers. So when Friends goes on the air, you're 31. one. I don't maybe obviously you can state this better than me, but I believe it wasn't until season two that it totally blew up. But it was certainly not nothing out of the gate. I mean, it was well it was popular and well received.

50:43But how quickly did you feel out in the real world that things were different? No, not that quickly. I mean, it took off this in repeats because Because our first season, we were doing great. Believe me, Matthew Perry was asking Jimmy after, you know, he did the first 10 episodes. Like, all right, what does this mean? And Jimmy was saying, no, it's good. You held on. You need to be within three share points of the show ahead. And then we were picked up, not a back nine, a back, wait, yeah, not a back nine, a back 11. Okay. So instead of 22 episodes, they already knew they wanted 24 episodes. And so that was good.

51:27But that summer, they put us on after Seinfeld, and we exploded. Exploded. Exploded. Like I saw a year later Jerry Seinfeld at something, and he said, you have me to thank for. I think he still says that about friends. Yeah. I said, no, I know. I know. Oh, my God. Yeah. But your day-to-day life, was that a big acclimation that you're, I mean, I would imagine it has to be to go from being sort of anonymous to completely not? Yeah, I guess that summer, that hiatus, I got married after that first season. And there was sort of a discussion at that. You know, we were planning it long before we were done with the season.

52:11And there was some discussion that, oh, might need some security or might need, there could be people trying to take pictures or something. But, you know, we didn't need that. But it wasn't until we were on Oprah, I think, before second season, I think, before heading back for second season. And she was saying they put a package together for us to, or for everyone to see. and they couldn't imagine that we're looking at this package sort of, wait, what's happening? What do you mean? Internet cafes. People are getting together to watch the show. I mean, we were watching it and she said, you look like you don't know that any of this is happening.

52:54And we said, yeah, we don't. I guess because you were still maybe even shooting additional episodes already. By that point, maybe you're not even that much out in the world. I don't exactly remember, to be honest. But yeah, we were in shock. Oprah told us. But I mean, I guess on a definitely a more somber note, another big realization of how big of an effect you guys had, I gather, happened after 9-11, right? Oh, for me, yeah. For sure. How did you process that? What were you hearing after 9-11? It was really just driving home from work. You know, in L.A., and there's traffic, and there'll be someone next to you.

53:38You know, also stopped at a light, looking over and just pointing with a big smile like, hey, normally. Okay. That's great. I should get my windows tinted more. Okay. But I don't, yeah, I didn't like that. But so, I mean, like, very tinted windows. But after 9-11 and you're stopped in traffic and you look over and someone's looking at you and they give you a very heartfelt, sincere, makes me want to cry every time, and just mouthing thank you. Because there's something else to watch and distract and laugh when you can't believe there's anything to laugh at. And I experienced it myself. I was watching Will and Grace and went, oh, this will be good because, oh, no, I was watching it and going, oh, God, they're in New York.

54:36I wonder who did they know in the towers. Right. If they knew, who did they? Not even did they. Who did they know? Yeah, right. They know the towers. And then went, oh, no, wait. No, because they would have shot this before that happened. Right. And then, oh, no, wait. This isn't real. and thank god for that this is fiction right all right it never happened here yeah and yeah it all gets me just how and how strange your brain is too right not strange but no it's uh there's a movie classic movie sullivan's travels i don't know if you remember that one where it's basically like a guy wants to be a scene as a serious director and whatever and eventually at and is, I think, accidentally imprisoned and whatever, they show a movie to the prisoners and it's a comedy or Mickey Mouse or something silly.

55:26But, like, it makes people happy and there's value. There's great value in that. Oh, it's – I've come to decide. Yeah. The most valuable. Yeah. And so many truths come out in comedies. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think people might need a reminder that during the run of Friends, you were very active with primarily indie films, right? But also all kinds. I'm going to just quickly list for Albert Brooks' mother in 1996. Yeah, that was the first one. Romy and Michelle, of course, probably the most well-known in 97. You and Mira Sorvino coming right off of her Oscar. Yeah. Clock Watchers, excellent indie, 97.

56:10Just people should note this. You could be on vacation in the off season of Friends, but you're doing a lot of solid work here. The opposite of Sex, really good one. And I think maybe the first thing of many that you had with Don Roos. Yes. And including Happy Endings, 2005, but that was after Friends. Yeah. We've got the two. We got Analyze This and Analyze That. Not indies, but very popular. Right. And Diane Keaton directing Hanging Up. Yeah. Wonderland, which I think you've said is one of your favorites in 2004. With Val Kilmer. The reason to, you know, as Friends has become massive and you're busy and whatever, the reason to be doing this kind of stuff in the offseason, is it because you wanted to prove something to yourself?

56:52Is it that you wanted to show the industry I can do these other kinds of things? What was the motivation? I guess it was for sort of trying to set the table for whenever Friends will be done because you never know when that's going to happen. but also like opposite of sex clock watchers I loved those scripts so much that and especially opposite of sex I thought I have no idea what I would do with this character but I've got to be in this yeah and this guy who wrote it I've never like when have women been written so well oh boy yeah he's the real deal yeah and clock watchers come on that was right after Romy and Michelle I'm like that's what I have to do I need the opportunity to do those little movies and thank God I'm on a series so yeah I'm not worried about how much I'm gonna get paid I get to work with Parker Posey and Tony Collette yes that's what I want to be doing so that's what informed that but then you know then it's yeah but you should be doing analyze this which was great oh my come on Billy Crystal and Robert yes I had just given birth to my son Absolutely.

58:02Everybody. My parents, my in-laws, everyone was, yeah, yeah, he'll be okay. Go do it. And you said, for better or worse, it brought in a whole different type of offer of what people wanted you to do after that, right? Yes, it did. More rom-com type stuff. Yeah, which isn't me. I'm not adorable, like I said. I think very first thing I said when I sat down, and you need that. You really do. You need someone who knows. And it's not just adorable. You know what I mean? That there's that's a fine needle to thread for a woman, I think, you know, that is requiring a really good actor. And yes, being vulnerable or sort of adorable unconsciously and smart and everything else, you know, like Meg Ryan was just phenomenal.

58:57But on – like even at the – during the great success of Friends, you – did you not feel like you were – like I guess you're – because you're saying – you're critiquing – you're not critiquing but discussing your – the look and whatever. But, like, again, the whole world's falling in love with you guys. Did that not disabuse you of that notion that that's – I mean, it seems – No, no. I knew. I was with Courtney and Jennifer every day. You know what I mean? And I knew the difference, you know? And the three of us are different. But I thought, you know, there was – yeah, I don't know. Oh, Jesus. Well, no.

59:46So obviously this brings us to your, you know, again, people might assume after a decade of 24 or 22 or 24 episodes a season, except for the 10th, I think was 18. But I mean, like, that's a grueling schedule. And again, you come up. What's a grueling schedule? Doing that many episodes, right? What? No. As you go along on a multi-camera show, at first it was grueling. It for sure was. Once you're up and running and you know what it is, and the other grueling thing is, thank God they were so nice to let me go do movies. They let all of us go do movies, and then we can come back and pick up stuff.

1:00:31But no, it becomes more and more like a part-time job. Interesting. And then you get paid more and more. Well, that part's nice. Yeah, no. I mean, after I don't know how many years, it's unbelievably great. Well, I guess the reason I mention it, though, is that you, at the end of that 10 years, again, somebody might say, oh, take some time off. But you were within a year back with the first season of The Comeback. Well, I was doing Don Roos. See, we finished in January 2004. And then in like March, I started Happy Endings. Yeah. Don Roos' movie. Such a great cast. Come on. Bobby Cannavale, Laura Dern.

1:01:18Yeah. Steve Coogan. I got to work with Steve Coogan. That's kind of thrilling. Totally. Laura Dern is unbelievable. Anyway. And then, so I'm doing Happy Endings and I'm not in, it's a big ensemble. So I had some days off and my agent said, hey, you're done with Friends. And our other client, Michael Patrick King, is done with Sex and the City. Why don't you two have a meeting? And I went, well, I know Michael. You did? Okay. Oh, yeah, from when I was doing Mad About You. And he was running a show at Sony. And I had already met him a while before. And so we would just, oh, yeah, I know you, I know.

1:01:56And we'd sit and talk. You know how you can sometimes when you have someone that you sort of know, but you're not in each other's circles and you can just connect more and say more because right so yeah we had that connection and every award show sex in the city would be there with us and we'd have to get out of the way at the golden gloves for them to go up and get their award you know like hey michael it's like why are you cheering for that guy because he's a friend And so, yeah. So you guys knew each other loosely. You have this meeting. Yeah. And it's amazing, again, how had there not been one day at the Groundlings that you didn't do something, there would not be all these years of intermittently but the comeback.

1:02:45Can you just explain it? Like this is, in a way, quite a few of the things that you – I mean, obviously, Romeo and Michelle comes out of Groundlings and so does the comeback. Can you explain it? It does. in more than one way. I know. It's really something. You can't take any day. You can't write off any day as nothing happened there. And especially if you are an artist, you don't know what doodle you've done or what letter you wrote, you know, or what little sketch-a-doodle you did. Totally. That's going to have an impact. Yeah, I was part of a Tim Bagley, Chris Darga sketch, and it was, I can't remember, like something fishing.

1:03:29And it was just funny if Audrey Hepburn were on there, in there like fishing, sitting in a rowboat with them, Audrey Hepburn. And so I did it very briefly because then she died and it felt like, no, I'm not going to be Audrey Hepburn. But Michael was there and saw it, I guess, because he tells that story. But he says it was such a bad Audrey Hepburn and I don't think it was. You said that. I don't think it's that bad. Thank you, Roy and Lee, for letting me come. Yeah, I don't think it was that bad. I think my favorite to work for was Greg Beck. That's great. I don't know. Thank you. Okay, Michael?

1:04:06Wherever you are. So, yeah, and he saw that. So he's the one that brought it up to you at that lunch. No. You brought it up? How did it? No, but at the Groundlings, I did a character monologue that I wrote called Your Favorite Actress on a Talk Show. And she was just a phony actress on a talk show trying to spin, you know, the fact that she hadn't been working for a long time. And, you know, so has, oh, I don't think it's been that long, you know. And then the phoniness of, you know. Well, you know, what's really important to me right now, I have to say, is we've got to save the planet, you know.

1:04:47People, please save the planet as a favor to me. I'll love you for it. I really will. Yeah. And by the way, the name Valerie? She didn't have a name then. Okay. And it wasn't until Michael and I figured out what the show was going to be. And it was way later. What should it be? And dipshit that I am just went, oh, okay. Well, let's maybe do that thing like you do middle name and first street you grew up on. It's like, what's that, a porn name? Like, what is that? So stupid. I don't know. So your middle name is Valerie. And Cherish is? Dan Bugatinski said Cherish, and we just went, oh, yeah. Because that's not a name anyone actually has.

1:05:32And so how many years? You guys start in 2005 with season one. The character had been in 89. So 16 years later, it comes back around. I just also, I loved, I think one time, maybe it was in the New Yorker profile, that you did or that was done of you that I think you were the one that likened her to Willie Loman in Death of a Salesman, where this is not a bad person. It's just a person that's completely living in a delusional world. And in her case that, you know, obviously that, that she's still who she was or whatever wants to still be that. And I also learned from that, I believe that it was very deliberate that she's happily married and that she's financially secure because you can't blame her craziness on that.

1:06:20Right. She has to be driven by, I guess, ego or. Right. There's a flaw. A flaw. There's a flaw. So just to remind folks, season one is the reality show about the comeback, which, as you've said, what could be more humiliating than that because that means you've gone away. Right. Season two, based on, which only comes about nine years. Well, I don't think we should gloss over this. You guys were shocked that it was not continued, right? Right, canceled. The day after we lost at the Emmys. But, like, you were at the Emmys for acting and writing, I believe, or acting certainly. Yeah, acting, writing.

1:06:59I think directing, too. Michael. Yeah. And the praise that—I will not do this now in the interest of time, but when we record the intro, So the amount of effusive praise from critics and everything for your performance, not to take anything away from anything else you've ever done, but this is the most well-received thing you've ever done, I think. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, sure. And so it was just a gut punch that they didn't want to keep going. Oh, here's the crazy thing. It was a gut punch to Michael. Yeah. Dan, you know, was my producing partner at the time. Yes. And like, what? I thought, oh, well, that is a mistake.

1:07:52They're making a mistake. Yeah. And I've never been more proud of anything I've done, so I can't feel bad about that. You guys didn't do that. And, right, it just felt like, oh, this isn't my mistake. And then in some ways, I don't know if it was the same regime, but they seemed to realize it was a mistake because they're the ones that nine years later asked for it back, right? Yeah. Casey Boyes was Carolyn Strauss's assistant when we did season one, and he loved it. Mike Lombardo was now in Casey running things nine years later, and I said, you know, this would be a fun event. And so we were going to – we said, great, okay, yeah, we'll think of something.

1:08:34But the thing is, is because it started off as a series, it had to be a season two. It couldn't be a limited series. Right, right, right. So, okay. So season two, just to remind folks, in 2014, or no, 2014, was now she gets cast in the dramedy, a dark HBO kind of dramedy about the events of season one. Very meta on meta. Right. Everything was about meta. So we were doing that. And then now, 12 years after season two, we get season three. Why did that take so long? Was that you guys not wanting to do it or them not wanting to do it? Yeah. I mean, you know, also I have to say during season two, it was feeling like, wow, we might do more than just this because it's going well and we'll see.

1:09:29And by the end of it, yeah, you know, they just said, well, the way you ended it, isn't that it? I mean, if you can think of something, we want to hear it. But what do you do after that? You guys came up with the perfect answer with AI. Right. So it took a while. And then also, you know, Robert Michael Morris, who played Mickey, passed away in 2017. and I just yeah I really couldn't even consider what are you going to do I mean whatever we think of he's the point of reference he's the offer the audience you know looking confused at what she just said or you know but then Michael had this idea it was so good yeah you know she's finally going to be she's finally the lead offered leading role in a multi-camera show except it's the first one written by ai and i went oh yeah that's where you see like all these things open up and to explore and you and michael had co-written many episodes of season one and two but every episode of season three including the one for which you guys are both nominated you're nominated as an actress but also for writing with him uh the episode valerie does it all which side note i I believe also features another member of your family, your son, as the AI.

1:10:55What do we call it? What's the way to do it? Evan, the AI troubleshooter. The AI troubleshooter. But, I mean, to be recognized for your writing generally and that episode specifically, anything that you want to say. Well, Julian's not in three. He doesn't show up until episode four. But three, yeah, that was such a good one. It was funny. Well, I like all of the episodes. Be clear. For sure. Me too. But that one also had us addressing the absence of Mickey. Yeah. And that was an important thing that, you know, from minute one we were talking about and trying to figure out. And, you know, Michael had the idea that we have her run into an older hair guy and that it's got to be.

1:11:48He just knew we needed an older guy, like a Mickey contemporary. And he was talking about Jack O 'Brien and look at him and I'm going to go meet him and I'm going to go talk to him. And he's this legendary Broadway director. And I went, yeah, OK, sure. Thinking, yeah, all right. But what are you thinking about that now? It was just so smart of him because it was one of the layers of Valerie thinking everything's great, taken care of. You know, don't have Mickey. Got a contemporary of Mickey's. He worked on, you know, I'm it. That's what I need. For sure. And that first episode starts with her walking onto a soundstage.

1:12:40You don't see it yet. You hear about it later, but she's just, oh, look at this. Isn't this great? And everything's so great and so exciting. But Mickey's not there. And she's dealing with intentionally another first encounter with the costume designer that is not listening to her and doesn't get it. And, yeah, and this time she's an executive producer, even though she didn't ask to be one. And she really wants to be careful about not overstepping. Like, best way for your showrunners to hate you is to try to do their job, you know. But this guy's so hard. It was – I do love that episode and things that kind of fold into each other.

1:13:22Totally. Yeah, I do love that. Well, with the last minute here, I wonder if I can just give you a couple of big picture sort of rapid fire things. Now that – I think you guys have said this is it for the comeback. there won't be a season four is that right right so now that you can look back at the whole experience how does that fit and compare to the many other things we've discussed you doing over the course of your career yeah well it's I mean a highlight and in some ways the highlight I hadn't written anything before yeah and then to be acknowledged holy cow right by your peers that But this is writing that's worthy of recognition.

1:14:06That made me cry. That's great. I mean, I was thrilled, you know, for the acting nomination. But this one really made me cry. Number two. And this is just, again, how. I don't know what you asked. No, that was great. No, that's perfect. Okay. Full circle things with sort of the theme of this because Groundlings to the comeback. Now I've got Romeo and Michelle is back. It's coming back. What is the – anything you can tease about that? And that's next year? I think so. Yeah, yeah. Have you guys already – We wrapped. You wrapped. We wrapped. It was the quickest shoot. Oh, my God. It was fun. Could you just like stepping back into an old pair of shoes or what was that like?

1:14:47Kind of. Yeah? I mean I'm still – yeah, I need to see it. But it felt good. Yeah. It felt fun. I don't know. I trust the director a lot. This is Tim Federley who's directing this one, but I always feel like I need to be able to trust the director and then, yeah. With regard to Friends, you had said in many of the early profiles that you didn't even watch, you didn't watch the show. And I get it. You're busy. You're living it. You're doing it. But after the very sad news of three years ago with Matthew Perry, you said that you did go back and check it out. And I wonder, what was that like for you to watch it?

1:15:25It was great watching it. It became my right-before-bedtime laugh or two. Yeah, because I watch sitcoms before going to bed. I just want to laugh before going to bed. Was it like watching someone else, or do you remember, oh, I remember what we were doing on that day with this? Or is it kind of a blur, which would be understandable. It was a crazy time. Yeah, some things are, oh, I remember that. Yeah. But a lot of it I don't remember, and it's like watching it for the first time. I mean, especially scenes that Phoebe wasn't in. Right. Because I'd seen that. And boy, everyone was good. I was just talking to Schwimmer like two days ago and saying, God, well, first I had to say sorry.

1:16:10When Jimmy Fallon, I said, Ross was a terrible boyfriend. You know, they were on a break. I've reconsidered that whole thing. And he just laughed and said, yeah, that's all right. He said, and he, you know, hasn't really watched either. And I said, it's so fun. Everyone is so good. And then he admitted there was one on. He said, yeah, God, everyone made me laugh. That's awesome. Well, last one. It's an impossible question, but I want I'd love to ask for just your best because it was such a momentous thing, a momentous change in everything in the direction of your life. If friends had not come along, what do you imagine your life, how it might have looked differently?

1:16:50I have no idea. Because you were already, as you said, you were already on track to be married to the person who you've been married to. Yeah. So that would have, but like, do you have any sense of what you might have wanted to do or done differently? No. No. And I guess it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. It really doesn't matter. Yeah. But if I wanted to. Yeah. Not act. Yeah. I could, that was the great thing about what I was interested in, evolutionary biology. Right, right. And, well, you can always go back to school and pick up where you left off. That's true. I mean, getting a degree is just about how much time and money can you put into it.

1:17:32That's true. Well, thankfully, we don't have to wonder. And thank you so much for doing this. Really appreciate it. Thank you.

1:17:47Thanks for listening to Awards Chatter. We really appreciate it and would really appreciate you taking just a minute more to subscribe to the podcast and to leave us a rating and review on your podcast app. And to follow us on Twitter and Instagram, where our handle is at Awards Chatter. On those platforms, we announce upcoming guests and provide details about special live recordings of the podcast that you can attend. Until next time, thanks again for tuning in.

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