Patrick Ball - 'The Pitt'

25:38And I loved it. And I got to see a lot of the country that way. But then as you get to be 27, 28, and you're gigging out two, three months at a time, and then the play is over and you move back to New York, and you've got to find a new coffee shop job, and you're living with four roommates. And it really took me meeting a girl. and I was doing, I was on a stretch. I was doing two plays back to back. I was doing one in Aspen. I was doing one in Washington, D.C. And I met this girl and I thought she was the one. And I was like, okay, how am I going to hang? How am I going to make this work? Because I can't just be moving around the country like this if I'm really going to hang on to this.

26:29and there was a real normal life. Stability was not an option for what I was doing. And so I will never forget, I went back to North Carolina on Christmas break and I was with my best friend, James, who was also in that high school honors drama class with me. And we were sitting down and having one of our talks and he was like, Pat, what do you want? And I was like, I want her, man. He's like, okay, well, what do you need to do to make that happen? And I was like, I've got to have a real life. I've got to have a real job. I've got to be able to do the thing. And he's like, okay, well, what do you need to make that happen?

27:09I was like, well, maybe I could teach. And he's like, okay, well, what do you need to make that happen? And I was like, well, I would need an MFA, I think. And he goes, okay, well, what do you need to make that happen? And I was like, well, I talked to Josh Foldy, and Josh Foldy says Yale doesn't require an undergrad. they'll take a professional resume in lieu of an undergrad. And so I, you know, went home, I opened my computer, I realized the application deadline for Yale was like two days later. And so I sat down, I immediately wrote out my resume and my letter of intent, and I reached out to everybody that I knew for letters of recommendation.

27:46I got it in just under the wire, and it was the one school I applied to, and I ended up getting in. And then the girl still didn't want anything to do with me.

27:58Patrick Ball:So she would have been based in North Carolina or where was she based? She was based in New York. OK, so that could have worked, New Haven, New York. And the fact, though, that you got in, my initial assumption would be, oh, everybody around you must be thrilled for you. And this is a great move. And congratulations. I mean, that's a BFD. You're going off to I can't imagine there's too many better drama schools than the Yale School of Drama. I'm familiar with it, grew up in New Haven that's a big deal, and yet Yeah, I thought that was really impressive and I thought everybody would be super impressed with that I remember going in because I did it all so quickly and I did it sort of on the sly I went into my agent's office I was like, oh no, they're going to be kind of mad that I didn't tell them but also they're going to be super impressed because this is super fancy And so I go into the office and I sit them down and I go, hey, guys, I have some news to share.

28:59I applied to Yale School Drama and I got in and they were like, oh, New Haven, great pizza.

29:07Patrick Ball:And that was all they had to say about it. Great pizza. They didn't think that because they're thinking in terms of screen act, that's what they're hoping you would be doing. I mean, because obviously Connecticut, at least that time, I think the pandemic hit some of these. But like you have Long Wharf, you have in addition to the great stuff at Yale School, but they're not interested in you doing that, representing a purely a stage actor. Is that what their issue you think was? Well, I think at that point in time, they were like, I don't know how this is going to get you closer to that CW show.

29:40Yes. But I was like, it will get me closer to doing the sort of work that I want to do. because I had worked out in the world, out in plays. I had done a couple plays. I worked with another great Yale actor, Mark H. Dold, out in the Berkshires. We were doing Shining City by Connor McPherson. And he just had a level of, he was just working in a way that I just could not, I just did not understand. And the only way I could describe to people is whenever he came on stage, I felt him. Like, I felt him. I didn't I didn't I could sort of see behind his billboard and see see a person on stage. And I knew that he had a level of craft in order to create that experience for me that I just did not understand.

30:35And I knew that I wanted it. And and so that that's that's why I went.

30:42Patrick Ball:But then so it's not just your agents, though, that were not thrilled for you, it sounds like. Right. I mean, you're getting out of the home, too. Well, yeah, at that point, Mom and Dad had watched me struggle for a long time. They'd been worried for a long time. I'm really here today because of my mom and her mom, Mama Gwenny. Mom and Mama Gwenny prayed for me for a lot of years, and I don't think I would be here without it. But, yeah, they were worried because they knew that I had been doing this now for quite a few years. And they would come and see all my plays. They would come and see the play in San Diego.

31:25They would come and see the play in St. Louis. And they were incredibly, incredibly supportive. But I think at a certain point they were like, I'm tired of watching you go back to New York and get so frustrated and get so scared and spend all this time feeling stuck and feeling broke and eating black beans for dinner. And, you know, they're just worried.

31:52Patrick Ball:And, yeah, but just sorry to interrupt, but, I mean, people should know. It's like it's a huge deal to get into Yale, but it's not, as far as I know, some of these schools get somebody leaves a ton of money and people that get accepted, They're there for free. That was not the case at Yale School of Drum. That was not the case. That was not the case. And it is more the case now because David Geffen made a huge gift to Yale School of Drum. And so now the school is tuition free, which is huge. It's huge for the school. It's huge for accessibility. And it's a great step to making sure students aren't stepping out of school and into this profession with a whole bunch of debt.

32:35And, but that gift came as I was graduating. So I actually, yeah, I, you know, got in, got into school and immediately went on Facebook and told everyone that I know. And all of mom's friends on Facebook got really excited. And then about two, three weeks later, they called with the price tag and they called with, okay, this is the estimated cost. and I thought there had been a mistake because I had vaguely heard through the grapevine that Yale was free. It was not.

33:12Patrick Ball:Can I ask what they were charging at that time? I ended up coming out about$80 ,000 down and$20 ,000 of that was from undergrad and about $60 ,000 of that was from grad school. And that includes tuition and living expenses because Because while you're at Yale, you're in class 12 hours a day and you're doing productions and you really don't have the ability to work a day job. And so you have to have financial help in order to just pay your rent and buy groceries. And so it ended up being about$60 ,000. And I think that was very scary for my parents. It's a big thing to take on. And then you look out on the other side of graduation.

33:59They're like, OK, but then you're what happens then? What happens? What happens after grad school? Then you go back into the casting pool and you kind of have no guarantees that life is going to be any different than it is right now.

34:13Patrick Ball:And in fact, from from things I read, I mean, it sounds like you graduate with your MFA, right? I graduate with a professional certificate. Professional certificate that couldn't be an MFA because you hadn't yet finished the undergrad, which you then eventually did and that became an MFA? Exactly, yeah. So I was let in even though I did not have an undergraduate degree. But the deal was I would take all the same classes. I have the exact same experience, but I would graduate with a professional certificate in lieu of an MFA, which I was promised could could retroactively be turned into an MFA once I completed my undergrad, which I did.

34:59So I graduated in the spring of 22 from Yale with a certificate, and then I spent the next summer doing online school and finishing my outstanding requirements for my undergraduate degree. And so I went in the course of about four months. I went from being somebody with a high school diploma to being somebody with an undergraduate degree and a terminal degree from Yale, which was pretty amazing.

35:28Patrick Ball:It is amazing. And yet the some of the concerns that I guess had been brought to your attention by parents and others for a while, at least, were were true. Right. Like you get out in the world. OK, you've got these credentials now, but you're not immediately. It didn't like you went right from Yale to the pit. No. And it was another one of those weird bits of timing. So the pandemic hit while I was in the middle of my second year. And so it's supposed to be a three-year program. The pandemic hits. Everything shuts down. There's absolutely no way to get in a studio or get in a theater together.

36:07And so what Yale decides to do is they decide to do a Zoom year where we're going to do a whole year just doing what we can do on Zoom. And then we will come back for a fourth year where we will get the training that we were supposed to get.

36:23Patrick Ball:You're going to have to pay for that extra year? The Zoom year was free. Okay. At least there's that. I mean, can you imagine if they try to hit you up again? Yeah. No. The Zoom year was free. And it meant that I was going to spend a year longer in New Haven than I intended to. But I think it was honestly the best of a bunch of bad options because the industry was completely shut down during that time. I have some friends that graduated into the pandemic, and it was a tough landing spot for them. Yeah. So then I end up, during that Zoom year, I kind of freak out. I leave. I go up to Alaska. I get a job working as a night shift security guard at a fishing lodge in Alaska, and I'm living in this.

37:13Oh, this is a great story. I don't think I've actually told this story. So I'm living in this shipping container in Bear Creek, Alaska, at this place called the Windsong Lodge on the banks of the Resurrection River. And I am working as security guard on the night shift. It's me and this one other guy. His name's John Kerry, and he's one of the most magical people I've ever met. And the two of us sit on sort of the banks of the Resurrection River just talking all night. and were part of this greater camp of sort of seasonal workers. A lot of them liked to party, and I'm still sort of really on the edge of still being in my party era but knowing that I need to get out of it.

37:59And John Kerry was this sober, just really David Goggins-type magical guy who would wake up every morning and go swimming underneath the icebergs and run up this snowy mountain with no shoes on and was just doing it for the right reason. And I was like, man, I want to be more like this guy. But to be honest, I am sort of continually sucked back into this camp. And I would go and party. And I would stay up all night. And everybody would go to this little 24-hour dive bar that never shut down, just through the woods. I would go there whenever I'd get off at like 6 a.m., just get obliterated. that dive bar was called the pit no it was called the pit and and it was it was a a nightly tradition of all of us living in the camp of seasonal workers to go and get pitted and could walk through the woods and go to the pit and get blackout drunk and forget who we are and but i I was sitting there in that moment with John Kerry, knowing that a change needed to happen.

39:09I know I, you know, and because I would work with various people at various points in their life that were sort of living on the wind and not really having any roots, which is sort of what I was doing in regional theater. But they were doing in this sort of seasonal worker sort of way. And it was very romantic. And then also you saw people that maybe stayed on the wind just a little bit too long. And now they were stuck on the wind and there was nowhere to land. And I knew that. I was like, at that point in my life, I'm either going to get real or that option is going to become unavailable to me.

39:50sitting there with John Kerry on that river every night is absolutely something that turned my entire life around and changed my entire life and shout out to him he will never hear this

40:01Patrick Ball:because he doesn't own a phone that's amazing and and the change that led you to make was that it seems like maybe I'm jumping the gun here but you were kind of ready to stop acting right yeah I was at various points I had kind of lost hope. I went up to Alaska without really any intention of coming back and then spent that time with John Kerry and decided, yeah, no, it's not time to give up. I need to go and finish what I started, come back to Yale, finish my degree, then graduate into a strike. And so I am now living in New Haven with my girlfriend at the time who was at Yale School of Public Health.

40:47Again, I'm yet again in this situation of like, okay, am I going to be able to be real and offer a real kind of life for this partner? I have no money. I have no ability to make money. I now have this MFA in acting and I'm still catering and I'm still doing odd jobs. In fact, I'd seen where you said you're catering, in some cases, the very people at Yale School of

41:16Patrick Ball:Drama who you'd just been learning from or in class with, right? That's true. For the year after I graduated, my partner at the time had a year left at Yale School of Public Health. And so I stayed in New Haven for a fifth year. And during that time, I'm auditioning. I leave to go do a play in San Diego. I come back, and I'm back in that same situation of, okay, well, I need to make rent. I need to make money. And so I had a friend who ran a catering outfit, and she catered all of the Yale events. So here I am now doing the catering for the season kickoff party of Yale Repertory Theater where I graduated like six months prior.

42:09And you talk about eating a slice of humble pie. That is a slice of humble pie. Yeah. Yeah. And so during that time, I was like, you know, this this is adding an incredible amount of strain on our relationship and on my personal life. And and I was looking for a way to get more real. And I was applying to all sorts of jobs. I was like, I'm not qualified to do anything, but I was qualified. I was I was applying to fundraising jobs, development jobs. At a certain point, I was like, okay, like, her dad, you know, worked in law enforcement. And so I was like, maybe I could be a cop. And he really liked that idea.

42:51And I was entertaining the idea. And I was like, wait a second. I'm not a cop. I can't do it. I'm not a cop. And so that ended up sort of falling, that fell apart and the relationship sort of fell apart. And then I ended up washing out and washing back down to North Carolina, where I was there for about a month living with my parents. And I was like, man, I can't go through this again. I cannot lose another relationship to financial insecurity. I can't do it. So I applied for a fundraising job at High Point University, which was kind of near my hometown. And I got the job. And I got the offer.

43:33And it was like a$100 ,000 a year job. It was like a real job, making real money. And the day after I got that job offer, I got a call from Moises Kaufman saying, come on down to Miami. I'm doing this play based off of this Venezuelan novel called Las Advanturas de Juan Planchard. I'm going to adapt it for the stage.

43:56Patrick Ball:and you know Moises Kaufman is this you know big auteur director presidential medal of arts recipient etc etc and I was like oh man oh man and I and I say just when I thought I was out just when I thought I was out and I call the people at High Point University and say hey thank you so much for this opportunity I'm really really serious about this I'm really serious about this opportunity. I need to make this change. I'm making a lot of changes all at once. I just got a call to do this play. I feel like I need to go do this play and just know for sure that this is a massive life transition. Make sure that this is what I want to do.

44:40And they're like, no worries. The job will be here when you come back. Go do the play. We believe in you. We're excited for you let us know when you get back and i went down did this play in miami and i met alicia yeah and we should say for listeners this is another actor who is now since then i guess your girlfriend yeah yeah and we've been together coming up on three years yeah uh but it was a love made in miami and we completely fell head over heels and we spent you know three months kayaking through the Everglades and jumping out of planes. That's great. And I was like, okay, I'm not done yet.

45:20I'm not done yet. And I ended up, it was so funny. We came up to the end of that contract, and we're sort of sitting on the couch, and the TV is playing, and it's CNN, and there's this news bulletin, a volcano about to erupt in Iceland. And she looks at me, she goes, do you want to go see that volcano erupt? And I said, this is the girl for me, absolutely. And so we booked two tickets to Iceland, and we spent eight days driving around the entirety of Iceland waiting for this volcano to go off and never went off. But we spent eight days of unbroken time in this magical, magical place. And when it was over, we didn't want to say goodbye.

46:01And so I was like, I'm not going to let this go. And I moved back to New York, and I gave it another try. And about three months later, the pit happened. That's amazing.

46:11Patrick Ball:Wow. When you say the pit happened, what was the initial? Is it just like any other day you see that there's somebody sending sides and it could be like a cattle call? Or was it a they somehow they knew about you and came to you? Like what were the circumstances in which it just first even presented itself? No, I mean they certainly didn't come looking for me. I think they had been looking for Langdon for a long time. I think they'd been looking for like four months and they hadn't found them. And I just happened to be the lucky idiot that was on their desk when they ran out of time. And, again, in a weird way, the decisions that might have at one time seemed, did I do the right thing?

47:00Patrick Ball:Did I do the wrong thing? I mean it sounds like they were, and this makes sense, but like particularly in this case interested in somebody with a theater background, right? and a lot of people that were on the show have theater backgrounds. Yeah, yeah, and John Wells has spoke on that. That was a priority of his, which is amazing because John Wells is a theater guy. He started off as a stage manager at Oregon Shakespeare Festival, and whenever they flew me over, it was like the third or fourth round of auditions, they actually flew me over to meet John and Noah. The second I walked in the door and I met John, I could tell, And I was like, oh, this is my kind of guy.

47:40Because as an outsider who had never really been in the TV world before, I had all these ideas of these flashy, scary people smoking cigars and whatever, whatever. And then I walked in the door, and here's a guy that spoke an actor's language. And he knew that it was tinkering, humble work storytelling. It wasn't a bunch of razzle-dazzle. It was tinkering work, and I really, really appreciated that because that's what I love about acting. And he made a point of hiring theater actors. He's got me. He's got Isa is a huge theater actor and comes from a very decorated theater family, obviously. Seppi, big, big theater actor.

48:27And I think it helps.

48:30Patrick Ball:Well, so the initial thing, though, they ran out of time. But what did you see? What did you know about when you went in for or when you taped or whatever for the first time? What information did you have? Well, the first step was just a regular self-tape. It was just a regular self-tape, just like the other 2000 regular self-tapes that I have sent off into the void, never to hear anything of ever again. And I had no reason to believe that this was any different. This was one of, like, I think five tapes I had to do that week. I had COVID, so I was locked in my apartment, just sweating and sort of delirious.

49:06And so I didn't really think that much about it the first time around. I just sort of like, okay, this is a little crazy. It's a bunch of Greek and Latin words, and it's a group scene, group trauma scene. So I'm talking to four different people while operating on a person. There's absolutely no way to do this right, so I'm just going to shoot from the hip. And then I got a call from my agent the next day saying, hey, they really liked your tape. They would love to get on a Zoom with you and meet you. And so I got on a Zoom.

49:37Patrick Ball:And you knew it's Noah Wiley and the show is Noah Wiley and John Wells, or you didn't even know that yet? Well, I think at that point that I knew it was from the creators of ER. Yeah, yeah. And I was like, okay, well, they know what they're doing. Yeah, yeah. And then I think the first Zoom call was just with Kathy Sandrich, casting director. We worked through some of the material. They gave me some notes. And then they called back the next day and put me in a Zoom call with Scott and Noah, which was very crazy because, again, I'm in my tiny little apartment in Brooklyn not wearing any pants. And Noah Wiley's on the other side of the call.

50:17Patrick Ball:And it's just like, OK. The guy who you'd watched as a kid on ER with your medical field parents. Like it's a pretty full circle crazy thing. Yeah. Incredibly crazy thing. And again, I'm like – I'm still standing in the context of my little Brooklyn shabby apartment having this unbelievably epic conversation. So it was very, very surreal. And then they say we want you to come out to LA to do an actual in-person thing. And then a few days went by and then I got that call. I read that I guess maybe you were back in North Carolina or something at that point because did you and your parents – or maybe it wasn't with your parents.

51:01But did you – you went and watched an episode of VR just for the heck of it. But the thing that you obviously I don't think could have possibly known at that time is where if you got this character Langdon, where his trajectory was going, what was the episode of ER that you guys watched? Yeah, it was really crazy. I kind of wanted to make a point of not watching too much ER because I didn't want to get sucked into the trap of trying to emulate the rhythm or style of that time. That was a different time than now, and I wanted to make sure that I was, you know, it's like when I play Hamlet, I don't want to go watch a bunch of other Hamlets.

51:45Because then all of my choices will either be a copycat or a subversion of that choice rather than just listening from an internal locus. And so I didn't want to watch too much, but I was like, I should refresh. And so I picked just a completely random episode, and it turned out to be the episode that Carter got interventioned for stealing drugs and got kicked out of the hospital.

52:12Patrick Ball:Unbelievable, right? So you end up after that at that callback, and I guess I'd read the scene that you did there was the one where Robbie confronts Langdon about stealing painkillers? Yeah. Without necessarily knowing all the dots leading up to how that moment is going to come in episode 10. Just that was the scene. You do that. Obviously it went well. So now at the age at that point, I believe 35, with just to, again, set the scene of what one thing where kind of the life-changing moment. 35 doing what at that moment in New York to pay the bills? uh what was i what was i not doing in new york at that moment to pay the bills i was working at a coffee shop in chelsea i was working at a restaurant out in fort green i was gigging out drive i was a a day player for the wardrobe department of and just like that the sex in the City reboot on HBO on HBO and my my job was to drive the shoppers the people that go out and sort of execute the vision of the costume designers and and they drive from store to store shopping clothes for Carrie Bradshaw and my job was to just drive them from store to store and then like carry the bags and stuff and uh that was one of the jobs I was doing I was also doing corporate coaching where I was working for this company that would be hired by these big like law firms and investment banks and stuff to just come in and basically do HR workshops about like, okay, we're going to give our mid-level managers some practice laps on how to have these difficult conversations.

54:02Like it can be really nerve wracking to figure out how to fire somebody. And so I think they're going to be better at it if we give them some exposure treatment, and we give them some practice. So they would bring me in to just practice these conversations. You're the guy that's getting fired 100 times. Yeah, exactly.

54:18Patrick Ball:Oh, my God. So this is the context at 35 with all the things we've talked about, the ups and downs, and then what? You get a call? And then it was – oh, man. The jobs keep going. And then it keeps going. So I get the call to come over to L.A. for the screen test. I go to L.A. for about 24 hours. I fly back. I have to be back at work catering at Blackstone headquarters the next morning at like 7 a.m. And I am at work. I am in the all blacks carrying a tray of quiche. And I get a call from my manager at like very, very early in the morning the next day saying, hey, they're putting together a test deal.

55:07They love it. I think this is happening for real. I'll never forget. I have a picture of it. I haven't showed it to anybody. But I have a picture of punching the clock. Because I was in this basement-level kitchen. It was one of those, it's like an iPad on the wall where you've got to enter a code. It takes a picture of you as you clock in and out to make sure that it's actually you. Nobody's clocking in for you. And I remember I took a picture of punching that clock. And I remember thinking to myself then, this is the last clock I'm going to punch.

55:39Patrick Ball:That's awesome. That's awesome. And then they spent the next they put together test deal and then sort of a week went by. Test deal just so people know. Can you explain? Sorry to interrupt. Can you explain? I don't I don't I don't I don't really understand. I mean, I know that basically with many of these things that they're like, if we offer you the job, you're committed for like seven years or whatever. Is that what that is that you're pre committing? Hey, if we do offer you this, you're in. I had no idea what a test deal was. I didn't know what was going on, but I was like, yeah, that sounds great.

56:14But it is essentially they negotiate a hypothetical contract that whenever they sit down, and back in the old days, they would negotiate that hypothetical contract. And then you would walk into the studio and all of the studio execs and the producers and everything would be there and they would do a lighting setup and they would have you do the scene for them. And then you would walk away and then the studio executives would say, OK, well, we can get this person for a million dollars. We can get this person for 75 cents. You know, we're going to get this guy for 75 cents.

56:51Patrick Ball:Right, right, right. And so they negotiated the terms of that deal. And then they told me, okay, you actually don't need to come in for an old school screen test. We're just going to use the tape that we took whenever you were in L.A. to show to the studio execs. And so that process took like a week. And meanwhile, at the same time, I have signed on to do this play. I have signed on to do this play where I'm supposed to be playing Achilles here in L.A. and so I'm sitting there sweating because I'm like I'm and I'm sitting there in Fort Green Park with Elisa my girlfriend and I am sweating because I'm like I don't know what to do here you know if this if this tv thing comes through that's going to be like a life changer for sure but I have no guarantees that that's going to come through and if it doesn't come through I I'm going to be doing this play where I'm playing Achilles.

57:46And so I need to hit the gym. I need to get big. I need to start working out like now. But if I'm going to be playing this TV doctor, I cannot be walking in looking like Achilles. And so I'm like pulling my hair out. And she looks me in the face, sitting in the middle of Fort Greene Park. She looks me in the face and she says, what are you excited about each of these opportunities? Because I was so fixated on all the stress and problem solving of each potential path. And she looks me in the face and she says, what are you excited about? And at that moment, my phone rang, and it was my agent, and they told me I got the job.

58:21Patrick Ball:How do you process that? Well, very quickly, because they said, hey, you got the job. It's Wednesday. They need you here on Friday. From New York to L.A. From New York to L.A. And I said, well, my girlfriend is opening a play tomorrow. I can't be there on Friday. I can be there on Saturday. And so I very quickly had about, I think I had three days to pack up my entire life and get it ready and then go see Alicia's play. She was doing the Duchess of Malfi in this little theater in Columbus Circle. Went and saw her play, packed up my life, got on a plane, flew to L.A., found an Airbnb. and kind of never looked back.

59:11Patrick Ball:Unbelievable. And just because it's been a running theme of this conversation, I mean, the stress of, like, you know, not having a stable profession, that has now ended in that moment. Whether the pit, even if it turned out to bomb, like at least you have now got a job that's going to, for however long it lasts, pay decently, right? Yeah, and we didn't know while we were making season one if it would last, how long it would last, if it would work, if audiences would care. But I remember thinking to myself, man, if this works, great. If this goes for five years, great. If it doesn't, I've paid off my student loans, and I am not in debt.

1:00:02And there is no take-backsies on that. Right. That is a huge thing that they cannot take away from me. And that was an absolute life changer. Yeah, luckily it did work out. And we do get to keep going for now. I don't know. I hope we get to go for a long time.

1:00:20Patrick Ball:Just to set up season one. Obviously, you know, season two is what is being celebrated now. Season three is what you're doing now. But season one, just to look back, Langdon, this guy is kind of riding high, right? He's Mr. Cool. and then it just crashes. Caught stealing painkillers, I guess, to treat his back injury, which had occurred on the job. I forget if it was. Where had he hurt his back? The excuse that he offers in that conversation with Robbie is that he hurt his back helping his parents move. Okay, right. And he hurt his back and went to a doctor and was prescribed painkillers by a doctor that he then ended up abusing and getting hooked on and then was self-medicating with benzos to manage his withdrawal symptoms from opioids.

1:01:11Patrick Ball:So that's just the general trajectory of season one. I mean, you'd done like a Law & Order episode. You'd done little things, relatively little things compared to this, right? But now to be thrust into the world of a drama series, It's not the ER schedule that they had in the days of like whatever, 24 episodes or something. But it's not – it's also not the streaming like let's do six episodes. This is – you guys were doing like 13, 14 for – 15 hour-long episodes. Right. So this is – you're right in the deep end. But you're there with, among others, Noah who's the lead actor, a producer, sometimes writer, sometimes director.

1:01:51Patrick Ball:and obviously for your character, both sort of the mentor, but also it sometimes feels like the father or son or the boss employee. Like there's all these complications. I just wonder, and also obviously he's been through this before. So I wonder for you, what sort of a dynamic did the two of you in real life develop as you're acclimating to suddenly being on a very big, important show? Yeah, I mean, Noah Wiley is incredible and just he's an amazing mentor. And I think him and John and Scott took an incredible risk in hiring me and several of my castmates who are very unproven, very new to this.

1:02:45And so they took on that risk knowingly. And Noah took on the responsibility of, okay, if we're going to say that this is the guy and he has absolutely no experience and absolutely no idea how television works, I am taking on the responsibility of teaching him, which is kind of exactly the responsibility of an attending in a hospital with med students and residents. And so that dynamic that you – those various dynamics that you see play out in the pit were very, very similar to the dynamics on set in the making of it.

1:03:21Patrick Ball:And did he also have any advice about just the – that's – obviously he can speak to what it's like to make a show and specifically even this kind of a show set in this world if a very different show. But did he also have anything to say about like, hey, I was the youngest guy on ER. The show blew up. I became a huge star and I had to very quickly learn what that – what fame is and how to handle it and what not to do. I mean, on that level of things, was he helpful? Definitely, definitely. And he's talked a lot about that. And he's also been like, Noah was, I think, 20 when ER happened. He's told me how lucky I am to be going through this at 35 rather than at 20.

1:04:13And I do feel very lucky because I have had the privilege of working out some of my kinks and doing some of my learning elsewhere anonymously before all of a sudden I'm under an incredible microscope. And there are a lot of just not to, you know, there's just a lot of new considerations about all of a sudden being somebody in the public sphere.

1:04:42Patrick Ball:I was going to ask, like, I mean, I imagine when you're not, it kind of seems like that would be cool to be. But then when you are, what's that like? And it is cool to be. It's incredibly cool to be and feel very lucky to be employed and to be working on TV, telling a story that I believe in and telling a story that audiences are so excited about. But with that comes a different level of scrutiny. All of a sudden, you've got a whole bunch of people online with a whole bunch of opinions about not only your work, but you as a person. And you want to tell yourself you don't care, but on some level you do.

1:05:27And then you start thinking, okay, well, you know, I want to stay true to who I am and true to my voice and true to myself. But now all of a sudden, the world that I'm living in is very different. And I can't be in denial of this new world that I'm stepping into now. So I have to learn how to live in this world and sort of respond to the pressures of what does it mean to be like, yeah, okay, I got to go to this MEFYC thing. That is a thing that you do not have to do when you're working for the East River Ferry. You know, and all of a sudden you have to do an interview like this. This is something that is not natural, that takes a little bit of learning.

1:06:18Yeah, I feel really grateful that, especially for season one, Noah talked us through a lot of it, but he also carried a lot of water. And it hasn't dawned on me really until kind of recently just how much water he was carrying for everybody. Because not only is he the star of the show and the executive producer of the show and often the writer of the show and sometimes the director of the show, but he's also the salesman of the show. And he goes out and does all of the press and does all of the interviews. And that is in support of the show and to the benefit of all of us. And he did all of that pretty much by himself season one.

1:06:59And now, especially like this last spring as I was doing this play in New York, and I was doing press for the first time both for the play and for the pit as episodes were dropping week to week. And it's a lot. It's a lot.

1:07:16Patrick Ball:We should just note that I guess it was while you were shooting season two, you were playing Hamlet out here in L.A. Yeah, terrible idea. Yeah. At the Mark Taper, I was very lucky to see that. And then I was very lucky to see you in New York on Broadway recently while you were shooting season three doing Becky Shaw on Broadway. But meanwhile, you've said it was not discouraged. Maybe I don't know if it was encouraged, but like the pit bosses said, go do this. And you said they knew that you were a theater person when they hired you. Not discouraging about this stuff. And in a way, it does seem like it really would be valuable when you're doing these scenes with all the medical jargon and running around and having to – I don't know how somebody who didn't have theater experience could do that as well.

1:08:15Patrick Ball:I don't I mean is that do you find when you're when you're in one of these chaotic crazy scenes that are in every episode of the pit that that is is helpful to you. You got to be quick on your feet. Yeah. You got to be quick on your feet. You got to be responsive. You can't really come in with too much of a plan. I think I think that is this is a kind of radically organically developing show. Yeah. Whereas I think a lot of times it's organically developing in performance. Like there's absolutely nothing I can do off in my apartment to plan when I'm going to turn my head or what facial expression I'm going to make or how this trauma scene is going to work or what emotional sort of undertone am I trying to play.

1:09:04You can't plan it because then you will show up on the day and there'll be gurneys flying in front of you. People will be handing you props that you didn't anticipate. Now you're walking down a hole. There's absolutely no way to plan anything. And so basically every day in the pit is like the first day of blocking rehearsal where you have to get up from doing table work. You have to get up from the table for the first time. You know what the play is about. You've had a week of talking about the play at a table. And then you stand up on your feet and you just throw spaghetti at the wall. You have to just pay attention to what other people are doing and just respond.

1:09:42And it's my favorite part of the theatrical process, and it is every day in the pit.

1:09:48Patrick Ball:So just so people understand, like for instance, yesterday you guys finished shooting season three, episode three, right? Mm-hmm. Do you even know what's coming in season three, episode six, or are you having to – because here's an example of why. I'm just curious how it works because you knew from your callback that Langdon in season one was going to ultimately have this confrontation about the painkillers, that he was – I guess that he was stealing painkillers. But you had no idea as far as I know exactly how it was going to get there. And yet I imagine you would want to and I know to some extent did shade the earlier episodes with maybe he's got a slight – what was it?

1:10:35Patrick Ball:Like a – just a physical thing that would suggest that this guy might have some addiction issues, right? And pain issues and whatever. If you're on a film or in a play, you know the end at the beginning. With this, how far ahead are you of the audience? We just wrapped season three, episode three yesterday. We got this script for season three, episode four on Thursday. So you, at this moment, have no idea where it's going to end in season three. Or have you talked? Is it the kind of thing where maybe some of the writers or Noah or whatever, you can have these conversations so you can sort of shade it, or you're just playing to get through to the next episode?

1:11:21No, so I had a conversation with Scott before we started season three with general outline of what is my animating problem that I'm working to solve over the course of the season, and as important as anything. And I've actually, it's a crazy way to work. It's very different than doing a play, but I'm actually incredibly into it. He will tell me where I'm coming from, what has transpired, what happened going into season two, what happened over the last 10 months. Where was I? Where am I coming from? And that is really what I need to know. How am I beginning?

1:12:10Patrick Ball:Did you even know at the end of season one, I mean I think you can assume based on the contract that you signed or whatever that you're back but I mean in reality Langdon's pretty, his future's pretty uncertain there. Was there any part of you at any point in season one that's like I might not even be part of season two? Absolutely. Yeah? Absolutely. Yeah, no, we had no idea. We had no idea I knew that Langdon got fired in episode 10. I had no idea what happened between episode 1 and episode 10 and I had no idea what happened after episode 10. I think anybody making a season of television for the first time, you're always worried, is this show going to work?

1:12:53Is it going to go? Are we going to get picked up for a second season? If we get picked up for a second season, do I get to stay on the bus? Do I get to stay doing it? And I think everybody, every actor has that neurosis, has that kind of fear. But I think I was uniquely qualified for that fear because my character was actually fired. And so I wasn't given a ton of information. So yeah, I had no idea.

1:13:22Patrick Ball:How many episodes had you already shot before the show started airing? Because once it started airing, it was pretty clear that people loved it. And you were still then shooting, right? When it first hit the air, you guys were only a handful of episodes in, right? No. So we started shooting in June. And so I think when the premiere – well, we actually did not have a premiere. But whenever the show dropped, we were shooting episode 13, I think. Okay. So you were pretty far in. 13 of 15. We were in the middle of the mass casualty. and it was it was this unbelievably surreal moment because the we are shooting the climax of the season we are shooting this big traumatic mass casualty event and then also the show is supposed to premiere and also LA is on fire oh my god and so we end up not having a premiere at all.

1:14:25But then the show kind of quietly drops. But we did not get a red carpet. All of us first timers had no exposure to reception or audience at all. We were just still on the lot. We were still just grinding away. But then now I pick up my phone and all of a sudden people have opinions about the show. But the second I put my phone down, my life is exactly completely

1:14:54Patrick Ball:the same. So what was the first real world moment where you're like, wait a minute, this is different now. I guess it could be as simple as going to the supermarket or something, right? Yeah. I mean, it's sort of come in various waves. The first time somebody spots you walking up the street, you're like, whoa. But that was kind of a sparse, that was sort of a rare occurrence there for a while. And then it wasn't really until I was doing Hamlet, once we had come back for season two and I was doing Hamlet across town, that is when people know where to find me. And so I would come out after the show every night and there would be these people that had flown in from Ohio, from Texas, from Canada, from Germany, from Argentina, who were just big Pitt fans and flew in to see this Shakespeare play.

1:15:55And I was like, great. This is great. This is exactly what I want to do. Get a TV audience and get a bunch of young people. And for whatever reason, the Pitt fandom has got a lot of young people in it. Get young people coming out to see Shakespeare play. This is exactly what I settled to do. This is great. And then once the show closes, I kind of go back to my anonymous life. And then I circled back with Becky Shaw this last spring. And that wave had grown quite a bit since Hamlet.

1:16:24Patrick Ball:Well, because let's just note season one, you guys, even though somehow, and this was the most idiotic thing of last year, that They nominated – this is not the idiotic part. The show was heavily celebrated. Somehow it took them until season two to recognize your great performance. But now here we are. But the thing is season two you're shooting, it's got to have felt like a totally different experience because this time you're now an Emmy-winning show with all the popularity and the profile and people have expectations and everybody is paying attention. did it feel just like a totally different experience almost like a totally yeah did it feel totally different than when you were shooting season one it did it definitely did and I I honestly it was a little bittersweet because that first season was so run and gun it was so run and gun it was it was it was like honors drama in high school yeah there was nothing we had no idea what we were doing we were we were just figuring it out and it was so exciting and anything was possible And then we came back and anything was possible, including abject failure.

1:17:33And then coming back season two, there was this really surreal sort of experience of being like, oh, like we were kind of just experimenting and messing around. And I don't know, like, I guess we should just keep doing what we were doing.

1:17:52Patrick Ball:But it was a really surreal, surreal feeling. Langdon in season two, which again is what you're currently being celebrated and Emmy nominated for and all of that. How would you say he is different? Because obviously there's that 10-month gap where the end of season one where he's basically kicked out the door but comes back and helps but it's uncertain to 10 months later. It's Langdon's first day back. It's Robbie's last day before going away. it's al-Hashimi coming into the picture now but I imagine it must have been pretty important for you to know what has been going on in those 10 months for Langdon is that something that was left up to you to kind of think for yourself or was it them saying like you should know that this xyz is what what transpired during that period of of him being kind of out in the wilderness yeah I got I got some cornerstone sort of facts.

1:18:54I got some footholds, not all of which have been revealed. And so I can't really share all of them. But yeah, I had a conversation with Scott and John about the fact that Langdon has been away for 10 months. He went to a clinic. He went to rehab, got some help. He has been out of rehab for a while and spent a fair amount of time at home in a sort of different way with his wife and kids. And now he is coming back into the pit for the first time. And there was a lot of blanks left for me to fill in as somebody who has been through that. You know, I remember very clearly my first year of sobriety and knowing how weird, it's a weird time.

1:19:50It's a weird time it's a scary time and it can feel like a deflating time you're you're really letting go of the idea that you'd of yourself that you had built up for yourself and confronting some of the lies that you had been telling yourself and telling everybody around you and and that that can be that can be a a hard road to hoe that that first year and so i was very i was very excited to

1:20:17Patrick Ball:get to tell that story we should just note the obviously it's going to affect the dynamics with so many other people with robbie for sure he's it's building to you know you langdon keeps trying to apologize and robbie's not necessarily receptive but is that because of how much of that is about langdon versus robbie's own issues right then we see that uh langdon's still ultimately I think a kind, decent guy, just the interactions with Dr. Mel and her sister, Becca, also going to the Emmys. I know. How great is that? That's pretty cool. But then you can also see, and this is totally understandable, I guess, in terms of just human nature, like you can't, even if Dr.

1:21:02Patrick Ball:Santos was not wrong in some ways about Langdon, that's hard to just feel. How do you feel about the person that kind of blew up your life, right? Yeah, you talk about the people, places, things. You're walking. It would be a very scary day for anyone in that position. I'm walking back into the environment full of people who I have disappointed, full of people who have, you know, found out the truth about me that I have not been willing to admit to myself before I did, and the shame of that and the fear of that and knowing that I have to come in and make amends and build bridges. And I also have to try to do it in a way that doesn't cause further harm.

1:21:51And I have to do it in a way that doesn't make me the center of attention and just stay a worker among workers. And you have that great scene with Dana in the break room where she basically says that. She was like, be a worker among workers. We're not here for your spiritual journey. I need you to pick up patients. That's what I need from you, which is valid. It's valid and fair. And coming back in and seeing Santos, you're right. I mean, that was a dynamic that remains a dynamic that I'm very interested in and excited about. And I think Scott and Noah were very realistic about like this is one day this is one day minds are not changed in one day a bridge like that will not be built in one day but the beginning of something might and so that was really cool to do with the level of spareness and subtlety that

1:22:57Patrick Ball:I think Scott and Noah did with it very last thing to say to you ask you is we've chronicled how we got to this, how you got to this moment where it's just kind of an incredible story of, you know, sticking with it and to now be part of something that's so beloved and embraced and to be recognized yourself this year as well for the great work. Just what's your kind of outlook at the moment about where it's, where you've come from, but also like what's – you have things specifically on the to-do list that you hope to – I think it's just the kind of thing where like maybe a few years from now if you're willing to do this again, it would be interesting to look back and have a snapshot of this moment in time.

1:23:45Yeah, it's a really crazy question. I need to come up with some new dreams because all my dreams are coming true. I spent a lot of years as a nerdy theater actor saying, Hamlet, if I ever get to play Hamlet, then I can retire. Then it will all have been worth it. I have the dream of Broadway. If I ever get to do Broadway, then I will know that it was worth it. And both of those things got to happen. And now I get to be on this great TV show that that is got a mission to it. It's got a mission to it and it's got a utility to it with a social conscience and a cause that I believe in. And that is what you dream of as an artist.

1:24:35And all of my favorite artists look for that and aim for that. And I am just incredibly lucky and I hope I get to keep doing it.

1:24:44Patrick Ball:Awesome. Well, thank you for doing this. And I think on behalf of all fans of The Pit and who have also been lucky like me to see you on stage as well, glad you stuck with it. It's been great. Thanks, Scott.

1:25:03Patrick Ball:Thanks for listening to Awards Chatter. We really appreciate it and would really appreciate you taking just a minute more to subscribe to the podcast and to leave us a rating and review on your podcast app. and to follow us on Twitter and Instagram, where our handle is at Awards Chatter. On those platforms, we announce upcoming guests and provide details about special live recordings of the podcast that you can attend. Until next time, thanks again for tuning in.