Rhea Seehorn - 'Pluribus' [LIVE]

27:48Patrick Fabian, who played Hamlin in it, and I are cut from the same cloth. We both have now spoken about, we thought the same thing. Like, clearly I'm not going to get it. I just need to be good enough that Vince calls me back to play the waiter in like episode six. Honestly, that's what we were like. Just don't, just, you know, do your very, very best. and then they'll get whatever they want. But what Scott is talking about is that, with no exaggeration, I had auditioned for Bialy Thomas Casting that did Breaking Bad as well as Better Call Saul and most of our favorite shows. And they're incredible, and they are one of the only casting companies.

28:24There was a couple of other, Alison Jones, that just did not pigeonhole you as a sitcom actress, but it was a difficult time for a while. I could not get called into a drama. to save my life made it all the way to a network test for some medical drama that I really wanted and I remember the producers calling and telling my agents they're just afraid that on the day she's going to come in and make the scene comedic it was like like I'm just gonna wear clown shoes like out of the blue I was like you just saw me audition anyway so dumb but um so I had gone in for Sharon for a million things, Sharon, Sherry, and Russell for nine, nine years, never booked a thing.

29:05And I'm like, they're going to stop calling me because I'm not book. I was working even though on, on his paper, I wasn't, I was, but I wasn't booking through them. And you start thinking like, well, they're going to think like, I just can't get the job done. But I, I do love what I do. And as I said, from the beginning, I'm not being a Pollyanna. I really do love the homework part of it, even though it's hard sometimes, believe me, like I've, it's so hard to tamp down the part of me that desperately wants the job, so that I'm not just wreaking desperation when I go in there, and my biggest armor is to do the work and come up with a character that I really like playing, it's the, it's just the best way for me to block out all the squirrely crap that's going in my head, is like, what's the moment right before, you know, the moment before the scene, what was happening right before, what are the given circumstances, what is my objective, what are my tactics, What are the obstacles?

29:54Play it, be in the moment. Because if I occupy my brain with enough of that, some of the noise gets drowned out. And the more I'm in love with whatever little snapshot I made, the more I can drown it out. And so I had done that for Sharon. And she had called me in for massive dramas, psychological dramas, freakish dramas. I went in twice for her for things that Deadline had announced who was cast already. And I was just a backup if this person like died. I don't know. So, and I, and I would just come in with my A game, do the best I could. I'm not saying I never messed up. I did, but I'm showing up and I'm doing it.

30:32And today it's like today is a, today is a four minute play. We're doing a four minute play today. Um, and she would direct me and I would take the direction and I would change it. So nine years later, the better call Saul audition happens. I go in for her. Uh, she directs me. I change it. She does it was fake sides fake character I go back in another fake pair of side set of sides fake character and Vince Gilligan and Peter Gould were already in Albuquerque scouting location so they're only watching tapes and they started asking her about me and they said but I see that she's done a lot of sitcoms like has can she do drama and Sharon started telling her about oh this monologue that they weren't sure where they were going with the character and they were like what about like if the person has this kind of psychological, you know, subtext.

31:22Oh, well, she did this. I saw her do this. How does she take direction? Well, I saw her do this. What's her work ethic? I've called her in for things that were already precast and she still showed up with her A game. And I later talked to Sharon after I got the part and we both had a little cry because what to me was nine years of failures got me the job because she explained work to them that was for an audience of three that no one ever saw. I never got a single one of those jobs, but she described them, and it is a massive part of why they screen tested me.

32:00Rhea Seehorn:That's great. And so nothing, nothing is wasted. Nothing is wasted. They're not failed. You might not get the job, but you showing up and doing your work and loving the homework and bring your A game and take the direction and take the notes like that is you'll sleep better at night and it does matter and also I mean once the show even when you were cast on the show on Better Call Saul I think the series premiere you had two lines in it right and they and here's what Vince himself this is another quote that I think is pretty interesting quote when Peter Gould and I first hired Ray for Better Call Saul I'll be honest with you we didn't know exactly what we had we thought it'd probably be good for Jimmy McGill to have some kind of love interest.

32:43Rhea Seehorn:We really like this actress. Let's see if she works out. And if she doesn't work out, we'll write her off. A car accident, a firing, something. That's how cavalier we were about it. It's almost embarrassing to admit now, close quote. So you, by showing what you could do by the end of the six seasons, it was essentially a co-lead. so I wonder if you can just talk about the way that you felt it was all evolving I mean one of the things that I think started in season two was that Bob Odenkirk lead you and I believe it was Fabian all like literally moved into together right by second season he and Patrick were living together by third season Patrick Bob and I lived together for the remaining season and what was what was the thought behind that we shoot for a very long time on the show and um in albuquerque in albuquerque it's long hours we are all mature adults with wonderful partners and there's just nothing sketchy or skeezy about any of us and uh i'm telling you the best chemistry is a brother sister deep friendship it will outlast many seasons past any kind of weird affairs and stuff And we respected each other's work so much.

34:05And the show is done, the scripts are done word for word. And so you drill and drill lines. And we're also just a bunch of nerds. And we wanted to be able to rehearse. And so we lived together and ran light. You ran scenes that you weren't even in. You discussed scenes all night. And also, it's just nice working those very, very long hours for months and months. if somebody's calling you from the grocery store and you're sick and says, do you want me to pick up soup? Every couple of Saturdays, getting to watch some dumb show on Netflix with somebody because you're by yourself. It was really helpful.

34:45It was really a lovely relationship.

34:47Rhea Seehorn:And by also working stuff before you're on the set with these people, you can, I imagine, identify and address issues that you might find with your own performance. And this brings up that likability example that I wanted to come back to earlier because I think you've talked about the fact, well, first let's set up that with Breaking Bad, the principal female character, Anna Gunn's character, Skyler, got a lot of crap for supposedly not being as likable as some people wanted, even though her husband's like a drug kingpin. I guess she's supposed to be happy about that. And tried to rape her. But she just should have been a little more perky.

35:34Rhea Seehorn:Right. So that was the context of actresses or female characters in Vince's shows going into Better Call Saul. Now you're playing this character, and after it's kind of beaten into you over the course of a career that certain things are expected to make a character, You're like, well, you've talked about, I guess, a particular scene you were working with Odenkirk, which ended with a sort of smile. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I don't like to give any fuel to that crap that was said about Anagon. But I want to say she's brilliant. And she played that part brilliantly. And I have watched that scene.

36:18It's in the first season when Walt has finally told her that he does have cancer but makes her swear she won't tell. And then Dean and Betsy come over and she's sitting there and they're talking about plans and she thinks he's going to die. And she's trying to act chipper and tears are streaming down her face. It's one of the most beautiful performances I've ever seen. She's brilliant. I would like to hope that the backlash she received is something of the past and won't happen again. We don't know, but it certainly was not about talent. it was about misogyny and something very very wrong she's brilliant um that being said i was doing uh a scene early on in better call saw peter gold was directing and um bob playing jimmy and i had a argument in it um and kim's very very frustrated with him and uh we did the rehearsal and i and i played the scene you know as truthful as i could to the character i was trying to create we get our scripts one at a time by the way you don't know where it's going and I didn't know if I was just going to write off into the sunset any second sometimes you don't even know like am I lying or am I being sincere in this scene but you make your own choices and uh they certainly don't want you to play gray you make choices um so I'm just trying to make you know making up my own like um subtext and stuff and we do the scene and Peter was like great let's shoot it so we start shooting one and uh at the very end of the argument right before it's either bob turns and leave or i turn and leave i can't remember what it was it was an argument about his brother chuck i did this small smile and peter says cut and he comes over to me and he was like that was great ray um thank you and he's like i just i would love to do a take that was closer to the rehearsal without the smile at the end.

38:11And I said, oh, what do you mean? And he was like, you did a small smile right at the end. And I really liked how it ended on the other reaction like before where it didn't soften. And I said, yes, of course, of course. And I walked away and then I came back to him and I said, thank you so much for saying that because I'm very proud of the work I did in sitcoms but broadcast network had a tendency to ask me to soften especially in arguments with men that at the end of an argument you needed to let them know that it was okay that it was like I'm really mad talk to you later um and he was like don't do that and he said and I was like sorry I just thought like she got really hot it was really harsh and I didn't know if I needed to soften it he said he goes please don't I honest he goes I think that Kim Wexler if she has her own code of ethics and follows them as closely as she can then that is what's likable that is what's more importantly accessible um which is more important than likability for the character and um and if she deserves to be mad she deserves to be mad and eventually we got to a place where Bob and I both thought it's a more authentic relationship as well if you can tell someone I'm super mad at you don't even talk to me I don't want to see your stupid face but make sure you thought the fish and then you leave like because you know they're going to be there and that's you know that's your that's that's your ride or die but no if like it's different it's I wouldn't do a farce the same way I did a Mike Lee film so I no shade to doing a

39:54Rhea Seehorn:broadcast network sitcom it's interesting like obviously during hiatuses between seasons or whatever you could go to the beach but you chose to do a lot of other things that you know keep working and also that were different like you were to remind folks on another uh great show at the same time as um better call sol and total couldn't be more different veep like you're playing that That was fun. Just to remind people, the Amy of, meaning kind of the aid to the rival of Selena Meyer. Anyway, but I mean, totally different muscle to Stratton. Hard show to keep a straight face on. Yes. For sure. Yeah, super fun.

40:38And I actually did the, that was one of the pilots that didn't get picked up, was the original adaptation of Armand Iannucci's In the Loop was called The Thick of It. And Mitch Hurwitz wrote it, and Christopher Guest directed it. And it was me, Michael McKean, that's where I first met him, Michael Higgins, Oliver Platt, Alex Borstein, Henry Winkler. Yeah, we had a blast, but it was a small-town mayor, and then it didn't get picked up. But Jesus, it was like 15 years later. And there was Mandel when I showed up. He's like, I knew we'd eventually get you on beat. Oh, yeah, I made this show 10 years ago.

41:23But yeah, I had a blast doing it.

41:25Rhea Seehorn:So towards the end of Better Call Saul, I guess Vince Gillian was thinking about what he wanted to do next. And my understanding is that he said to his producer, find out if Ray is getting close to committing to something else. so that I'm not ready to show her something yet, but I don't want her to commit to something else before I get a chance to do that. But actually, even before that, when he was, I guess, going down the road of thinking about what would become Pluribus, the protagonist was a male, right? Yeah, so what he told me was that he was just thinking about the ideas and the questions, many of the ones that come up in the show, and just wrestling with these ideas and couldn't quite get it to gel into a script or a story that worked and it was a male protagonist he has said just by habit because that's what he writes and then he said I think it was towards the end of season end of season one of Better Call Saul or maybe season two that um he just decided I should write it for Ray he has said that part of it is that he definitely wanted to work with me.

42:36Part of it was that he thought that the role would be better as a female. And part of it was the way I work, which I'm, I'm not positive, but I think had something to do with the fact that he wanted to push tone, you know, these tone shifts where it goes from very psychologically dark to funny and stuff and saw something in the way that I can vacillate between those things, because that's normal from the way that I was trained, that he decided to then write it for me and then was percolating on these scripts trying to formulate the pilot for uh I guess he said about like eight years after that so then yeah when we when we

43:16Rhea Seehorn:wrapped Saul is when he told me he started so yeah and I mean I guess that you know people watch the show and assume oh this because it's coming out in the wake of the COVID pandemic and at a time And when AI is rising and whatever, it must be a response to the world around us. You're saying, and he's saying, this was in motion years and years ago. Absolutely. He was writing this. I mean, AI existed, but it wasn't a debate topic. I mean, he started writing this at this point 12 years ago. It is kind of an incredible time. Pre-pandemic, all of it. Yeah. Yeah. Do you know why your character is called Carol?

43:55I do.

43:55Rhea Seehorn:Can you share? It's an homage to Carol Burnett. Who you had crossed paths with on Better Call Saul. She was on Better Call Saul. She's friends with Vince, and I am incredibly fortunate to say she's not a friend of mine. I just saw her recently. She's amazing. 93 and crushing it. Yeah, yeah. And as far as, you know, you mentioned with Better Call Saul, you're not getting scripts that far ahead of what you're shooting. with this one though when it was first you know when Vince finally did initially share with you what he had in mind how much information did you have at that time and even once you guys started shooting you know how far ahead of the audience are you so when he said I wrote something for you and he said I wrote something for you if you're interested I was like I'm interested um but he said i i don't want to pitch it to you because it's too hard to describe fair but it has nothing to do with breaking bad and better call saw and it has a psychological sci-fi element and i'm not ready to share the script with you and i said okay and i was like i'm in and he was like well no you can wait till you read it i said nope it's fine i literally said i go i don't care if i'm playing a park bench like it's fine whatever you're gonna do and um he took like two months to send me the script, which definitely was a little pins and needles.

45:16But when I read it, I went on what I presume would be the journey that many viewers did, where it was just like this insane roller coaster ride. I was like, what is this? Like, what's happening? And every time you think it's this show, it takes a turn. And I'm like, oh, okay, so it's not a zombie apocalypse thing. It's this, and that's this. And then it was like funny. And his scripts, some of them are public. If you ever get a chance to read any of his published scripts, they're such great reads. For a writer, for a director or producer or an actor um because there's point of view in them and there's narrative in them um they're fun reads there's pace in them you you there's humor in them there's point of view the whole time and uh I was like this is weird this is so weird and I was like I would love this show this show is absolutely insane and then of course I started freaking out because I was like oh wait I have I'm playing I was like I don't understand how I'm gonna do this um and And also no idea.

46:13I was like, no idea what episode two was. And then I would get episode two. And I was like, I don't understand where you go from here. And then I get three. And on Saw, we would get them one at a time. You get the next one about halfway through filming the one that you're currently in production on. Because of the strikes, the SAG strikes, we were supposed to go down and shoot right before the SAG strikes started with episode one. But because of the strikes, they got three fully in the can. They'll break them all, like outline them all. usually before we start shooting or the majority of them but the final polished script isn't ready and then Vince is doing a pass and that's extremely detail oriented so that takes a beat um but in this case I had three full polished ones and I'm already begging for them to give me that again at this point I'm 13 years into working with Vince and my I I have learned a way to work where you just do what's in front of you and stay very very present and if I make choices that are off what he wants in the next episode, he'll let me know.

47:14But sometimes he feeds off the context and the subtext that I put in it. So it's kind of this lovely dance. But I have told him that in the first season of Pluribus, having three, I memorized all three and prepped all three because I knew the work was going to start to snowball. It was going to start to pile up because I'm constantly filming one and the next one's coming. And I was in most of all those scenes And, you know, so like 14, 15 hour days for we shot for 11 months.

47:45Rhea Seehorn:This is your first time number one on the call sheet of a TV series. Yes, other than a failed pilot called Eva Adams. Is that on your list? I was working. I'm telling you I was working. But that's a big deal. It's a show where I believe each episode costs$15 million. Oh, I didn't know that. Is that true? That's what I've heard. I need to ask for more money. That's like, but I mean, that's like a, each one is like a movie. That's like, they definitely feel like a movie. And that's, I mean, the scale. So even compared to Better Call Saul, the scale of what's around you when you go to work, it feels.

48:20Rhea Seehorn:It's huge. Much bigger. And even though you're back in Albuquerque, right? They're shooting there again. The cul-de-sac, that's all like a back lot where Carol lives. That's all fake. I mean, it was all built. It's all, it's a neighborhood that's built. And at first you're like, oh, that's indulgent. And then you're like, oh, you're going to set off fireworks and have howling wolves at three o 'clock in the morning. The neighbors would have kicked us out. Have some issues with that. We needed it. A lot of night shoots, right? Throughout the whole. We started with four weeks of night shoots. How does that affect a personality?

48:52Rhea Seehorn:Like, I mean. And freezing cold. And freezing cold. Yeah. My poor Miriam Shore. By the way, my whole cast, Miriam Shore. She's a national treasure playing hell on my wife. in the original Hedwig and the Angry Inch. The original, if you haven't seen that, the movie and the Broadway production answered like a village voice ad to do the play like in a basement. Oh my God. Good call. She runs very cold. I run very hot, but it was still freezing cold. Every time she would get up after she was dead, I would, and I'd be so distraught. And I couldn't stop laughing though. Cause whenever she gets up, those hand warmers they give you, she puts them all through her whole body.

49:29and then she just poops like a trail of hand warmers when she walks they just fall out of her but yeah that was great and then you know oh my god then i got again bialy thomas casting worldwide global search thousands of people and we find carolina weedra playing zosha who's just incredible um carlos manuel vesca playing manusos never worked outside of colombia brilliant by the way speaks better english than i do he's so fluent we just did a panel the other day and he's like forgive my english is the word sagacious and i was like i'm sorry what what's happening um brilliant samba shoot playing diabate come on you guys have so many murderers i mean

50:11Rhea Seehorn:nominations this year it's insane i'm so proud um but one uh thing that's also interesting in terms of transitioning from better call salt to harvest what is probably the most uh instant identifier of Kim Wexler when you're the ponytail so we would see her from behind with the ponytail how does uh just you know folks here have just seen the the first episode of Pluribus but just for listeners can you remind us how Pluribus begins yes and Vince later said he didn't do that on purpose but Matt Cradle my a camera op and I have been working together for all the better call saw in this and I had suggested like a different haircut for this character and came up with this bob i also had read the pilot and i was like we're gonna be sweaty messy freezing cold you know uh not showering uh for the character and it's just gonna be my my hair gets stringy when it's like past this length and so i was just trying to be practical but i also thought it was fitting for the character this that and the other and then vince tells us that he wants this opening scene in the in the Barnes and Noble to track behind me I have spent so many hours of my life doing shots of the back of my head with Matt Cradle uh on that ponytail when she's on crutches and making it swing when it's tighter because she's anxious when it's falling apart because she's falling apart we would laugh our heads off and I even directed uh an episode uh the fourth one in season six that where Kim is moving her chair back and forth.

51:47And I asked Matt to show just the ponytail doing like weird things and you can't figure out what's going on because I had a director mentor that said it's always good to start a start a scene by asking a question and then answer it when you're directing it. So it's like, what is this ponytail doing? And then you answer it's the chair. I loved that tip from him. But so Matt was filming that and we're coming across and they show immediately that my hair is cut off. And as soon as I realized they were going to do that, I looked at Matt and he's like tearing up. And we were just like, oh, my God. Oh, my God.

52:18It's a new day. It's a new day. Yeah. Then Vince, like six months later, he was like, oh, it's fine.

52:25Rhea Seehorn:So, you know, ponytail or not is certainly one element of performance. But, I mean, I think what we really need to talk about is the fact that, A, you're in every scene of this entire freaking show. Not in the Canary Islands. Not in the Canary Islands. Right, right. But I mean, percentage wise, I don't think there's anyone on any show that's been more in the show than you are. And often without anyone else in the scene and or with nobody else speaking, like, or you not speaking, like there's, there's long, long stretches of stuff without dialogue. Is that something that you get excited about or get a little daunted by?

53:08Rhea Seehorn:though either of those things where you're both but yeah they're the same to me they're the same as a dialogue heavy scene because vince is expecting the same amount of story beats out of a non-speaking scene as he is i mean first of all i wasn't like shot i didn't have these scripts he didn't tell me i'd be doing long stretches uh you know by myself or whatever but i'd seen breaking bad and better call salt i saw mike ermatrout like dismantle a car for two hours you know what I'm saying like it wasn't like what so I knew he does stuff like that he often advances plot through um characters doing tasks um and additionally like I know everyone makes fun of it and there's like Peter Serafinowicz does a great satire of it but the Michael Caine acting for film like really old video it's actually really good I remember being like 14 when I saw it And when he starts talking about there are just as many interesting reasons for not speaking as there are for speaking, I was blown away.

54:10And it's still one of my favorite things to do to this day. And so why are you not talking? And honestly, she's alone in our house. I was thrilled that he didn't write something where I just suddenly start talking just to help the audience. Because he assumes the intelligence of his audience, which is one of my favorite things about his programming. It's why I like his shows. and then as actors he does not ever make me telegraph to the audience exactly what to think they are invited to go down a rabbit hole with me and interpret what they will and uh I make my decisions I make my choices but um but yeah you know like if there's a scene where she's waking up uh on the floor with uh with the in the in the um is it episode two yeah it's episode two with a bottle of liquor and I thought okay was not able to go sleep in that bed where her wife used to be can't can't deal with that and um can't be a comfortable to wake up comfortable way to wake up if you fell asleep um drinking too much on a wood floor and then I'm sitting there I was like so what's the next beat that would happen I know the next action that's going to happen is that I have to bury my wife but between those two things I was talking events and I said you ever have that thing or something terrible just god-awful happens and that little slice of dream state when you're waking up where it could be just a dream and you're slightly hopeful like please make this not real so we staged it that her body was there so that when I would turn my head I would see her and the whole thing would hit me again and then it's the reality of I have to do something about this um and then it's like well what am I going to do.

55:57So the next step is the blanket. What do I, that I'm supposed to make the decisions about the blanket. Why this blanket. So, you know, he's written that in. My job is to write in, was it her blanket? Was it my blanket? I decided it was her grandmother's blanket. Very, very important to her because it still smells like her grandmother. So we never take it out of that chest. Never, ever, ever. If there's any time we should take it out of that chest to give her comfort, it's now, which is why it takes me a minute when I open the chest and I smell it and then um wrapper in it and like I still get choked up because I love Miriam so much but um uh yeah so that's my job he writes a story points in but I should be making all of the beats that make that connect those two things all the subtext that oh that's great really interesting

56:41Rhea Seehorn:and you I he talks about the fact that you have so much a lot of people have talked about the fact so much going on in your and on your scripts I guess markings and tabs and whatever that Yeah, my scripts look insane. It's true. And they're all terrible. I hate when the crew finds them because I also write very mean notes to myself. When I'm having a bad day, I'll like, try acting, dumbass.

57:10Rhea Seehorn:Last couple from me before we turn this over to the students. So let's have some, let's get those mics ready to go. but um i wonder what you know this so much of the show is is raising moral and ethical questions and i wonder for you which of those provoke the most conversation between you and vince or you and your co-stars or whatever i mean i will just throw out a couple that that are interesting to me like i mean in the year when we also have the movie obsession which i don't know if you've had a chance to see i haven't seen yet because i gotta find somebody to watch it with me because I'm scared to watch it by myself.

57:47My husband won't watch it with me. He's like, too scary, no.

57:50Rhea Seehorn:We'll come back on September 18th. We're going to be showing it. I will totally watch it with everybody. The actress will be here. Okay, yeah, yeah, I will. No, it'll be fun. But, I mean, one of the things that happens in there, minor spoiler? You can spoil it, it's fine. No, just a minor, not a... Don't spoil it? Oh, they don't want you to. Don't spoil it. Okay, all right. We'll go to the next thing. But point is, point. Someone's obsessed with someone, right? Questions. Yeah, that's a good, right. No, I mean, like, there are things about consent and there are things about, like, so your character, as this show progresses, has an interesting relationship with Zosia, the Carolina character.

58:34Rhea Seehorn:But it's not actually, she, I don't know if we, I forget if we know for sure that that was her name before the joining, right? I don't think we know. We don't know. But the point is, this is not actually the person who's normally in the body of the person that you're looking at. She's in there, but along with everyone. Along with everyone, right. So, like, for something like that and whether you – how you interact with a character like that in any way, but certainly romantically, like, is that – like, these – just the logic of the show. Do you guys have to spend a lot of time? I'm sure it happens in the writer's room largely.

59:14Rhea Seehorn:But I mean, when we debate them on set, we debate them in rehearsal. We debate them on set. We I mean, talk to Vince about them, talk to, you know, Gordon Smith, Allison, like everybody that works on this show. And then late night sitting around with the crew like we'll just continue to debate. Certainly there's great scenes where she's asking Diabate like that's not consent. He's like, I've never done anything that they didn't want me to do, but they are being, they have a biological imperative to do anything that you want. So how is that consent? Carol post the 40-day isolation has been utterly broken.

59:54And Vince would remind me they really wanted this to have a dramatic effect on her. not just because you've been alone for that long but because of the existential threat that you will now be alone forever nothing you will never speak to anybody again unless you would like to live a partially delusional life and she suppresses that and does but you see like her struggle with what do you what do you mean you love Manuso's the same as me and that it wasn't just consent when you say like what are some of the topics we just would discuss it was we had a crew member say well because you're like is she manipulating is Zosia just being manipulative is Carol just being manipulative to find out more stuff and to pass the time and using her and we had a crew member who's lovely but he was like aren't all romantic relationships manipulative and I said what and he was like you are trying to get something the whole time like and he didn't even just mean sex he meant like I want to be loved I want you to love me there are there real selfless acts anyway and I was like okay that's depressing but but real um certainly the same with Jeff Hiller where it's like could you be with a partner who actually didn't think your work was good that's a tough one for anybody in the arts um yeah what does success mean Carol can't let go of the fact that like you love my writing the same as everyone else is.

1:01:22So as long as they authentic, as long as everyone authentically thinks you're one of the best journalists in the world, would it bother you that so is everyone else? And if it does bother you, does that mean ambition is a negative thing? Or is ambition when kept in check, I tell myself, a wonderful thing that gets me up every day, because I want to be better at something. that, you know, we had late night debates for sure.

1:01:52Rhea Seehorn:And it's given journalists a lot to write and think about as well. And so we appreciate that. And lastly, for me, you know, where are we in terms of like the process of going into season two? And just generally, I mean, this is a pretty cool moment, I would imagine, to be you. You're getting this has been so well received. You've been so well received. You're going in a few weeks to the Emmys. Um, just, uh, how would you describe your, uh, state of the union of the, at this, at this moment for your, for yourself? Well, as far as season two, I know nothing, by the way, like that I couldn't give a spoiler if I wanted to, I know nothing.

1:02:32I haven't seen a single script. I don't even know what the atomic bomb in the driveway is. Uh, I made some decisions about what I thought I was doing. And then when we wrapped, I said, okay, so tell me Vince, like, what is it? And he's like, I don't know. but um i don't know anything he did get really excited when i saw him at a panel the other day and he never like wants to jinx himself and he was like we just wrapped the writer's room um which doesn't mean all the scripts are done but uh they wrapped their hive mind version of it and uh he was like there's so much that happens i was like okay um but he's excited so that's a good thing really hope and I think it's going to happen to start filming before the end of the year then it'll be another nine or ten episodes gosh that's literally about uh all I know I'm so sorry but um I I would assume just as a fan I would assume we're going to learn a lot more about like B stories I feel like we'll have to see what Minusos and Carol are doing I'd like to think Diabate would come help me now that he knows like that they're plotting to like steal your DNA but I don't know.

1:03:41He's having a pretty good time. I think we'll learn more about Zosia and learn more about the others. So, yeah. So I'm all excited about that. As far as the state of the union that you asked about, I don't know how to articulate how how grateful I am. I take it all in. I take it all in. Well, thank you.

1:04:20Rhea Seehorn:Thank you for this portion. And now we will be turning this over first to Avery Lee from Film and Television Production. Avery. Hi there. I just wanted to ask what kept you motivated during times when acting work was scarce? Making my own work. I did a production of Cooper's Bar with a bunch of friends that were all out of work in someone's backyard. And, you know, we put it on YouTube. You guys have some tools that I know I hear from a lot of young actors I talk to, like how annoying social media is and being asked how many followers you have. But the fact that you can make a short this weekend on your iPhone and put it on YouTube, like it's an incredible tool.

1:05:05And I know it's easy to say, like, we'll just make work, but that's how that's how I get through it. I cannot control who will hire me, but I can control whether I'm working and working on my craft.

1:05:18Rhea Seehorn:Let's go to Adriana Composano, also of Film and Television Production. Hands up. There we go. Great. Hi, my question is, when you are acting, how aware are you of things like the camera and lenses that are being used to capture you? Oh, that's a good question.

1:05:38I'm aware. It is similar to theater in that I know the audience is there and it is my job to understand what light to walk to and to be there. But I do have a pretty good ability to divorce the performance and the thoughts from that. You kind of have to have two things going on at once. I know there's people that are saying they're completely absorbed in the character and I am but I still have to be miked and I still need to know that I'm walking to the right not to the left um it you know what I'm really bad at that I'm still working on first of all fake phone calls really struggle I I out of the blue don't know how to hold the phone I'm like hello and and also push-ins that people love to do to show the scenes important I get very I get very uh nervous and I used to ask Jonathan Banks he's very good at inviting the audience in through the lens when I play intimate moments where my character is pulling away and is feeling a very private thought I tend to turn away because I think of the lens as a person because it's the audience and he has been telling me that I need to invite them in so I'm I'm working on that so sometimes I am aware but I've gotten a little better it just just have it another reason to shoot on your iPhone it's just like constant constant constant and you start to get used to that.

1:06:58Rhea Seehorn:Also from Film and Television Production, Yasmin Ishmilova. Hi, Ray. You directed episode four of season six of Better Call Saul. So my question for you is, how did it feel stepping into the director's chairs? And how did that change the way you think about the actor director relationship? It was terrifying and awesome. I had directed before I had directed two shorts, and then I mentor mentee. I had a lot of mentors that were directors from Better Call Saul doing other projects that I would do on my own dime and just go out and like watch them and study because I had asked Peter Gould and Vince Gilligan if they would consider me to direct but I told them I don't want you to feel like you have to say yes I want to make there a reason to say yes to me so I tried to learn all that I could it was really it was really scary and I did not want to direct myself but I also am not dumb I didn't want to tell them to write me out of an episode but I they told me that in the final season there were two episodes that I wasn't in because they wanted to make the audience think that Kim had gone away and then she comes back and I said oh that would be great to direct one of those and probably even more importantly I would love to not be in the one while I'm prepping because for anybody that doesn't all of you guys do production but um anybody here that doesn't know so you're prepping the episode the next episode while you're shooting the one you're doing so if I'm supposed to be going on a scout to go look at locations I was on a stage over there shooting so it was really really hard and uh it turned out that the slot they gave me like I was acting during prepping and I was acting during shooting um uh I don't look at it differently I think because of what I started this whole conversation with is that like I've always thought of it as a collaborative art form um I just loved I loved the opportunity to get to know some people's cogs in the wheel even more to like watch a prop show and tell to tell um jennifer bryan my costume designer she was trying to dress this day player that had like two lines in the diner scene kim has no office and she's trying to help this guy and it's a little snippet of a dialogue that seems like she's telling him he needs to show up to court dates and make sure he shows up at his um rehab or something like that so i made up the story that he's like, you know, sober and probably lost everything living in a halfway house.

1:09:20And I said, I need his, I need his blazer to like, it lost structure, but he's got one suit jacket because the whole halfway house has to share it when everybody has a court date. So it doesn't fit and it lost the shoulder pads and it's just a little bit sad, but he's trying hard. And then she brings this costume in and I just like wanted to cry. And like, that was that it was a great thing that changed as far as me seeing like even more of the artistry nice uh ibrahim rashwan also a film and television production hi uh i was wondering what is something you did that helped you get into character in shooting pluribus for shooting pluribus um let me think i know for for kim wexler every season i would go back i would immediately start sitting on my hands and getting still because I'm, as you probably know, this is spaz.

1:10:10That's actually not a good word anymore. You guys have to help me. What's the politically correct word? I feel bad about that.

1:10:17Rhea Seehorn:You're pardoned. I totally didn't mean it in any medical fashion. I meant that I'm very dorky. I'm very, very effusive and physical, and she's still. So that was hard. For Pluribus, you know what I would do? I would it's a it's a bit more abstract but Vince kept reminding me in this outlandish circumstance she has to be a very honest every man in the middle of it so I would constantly ask myself no but really you know those what if games you would play like and they're it's some insane um you know theoretical thing like but I would say like no but really like what if what if this happened what would you do I personally would take at least two more weeks to get off that floor with the bottle of vodka but um just trying to think like even when the twins come up from next door and vince had written in she's holding a rock and it says he's like but she can't brain the kids can she um and it's like wtf question mark i was like i don't i don't know i don't know what to do and i ended up like shooing them like bugs because i was just at a loss i'm like i don't know what to do so yeah i just i drill down on be a real person in an insanely unreal circumstance i really like this question from gray everett smith also oh great oh yeah hi there hi i'm gray so prior to pluribus and tv series like better call us all you always had the opportunity to bounce off of and work on uh work off of like other actors and talents on camera however um the special thing about pluribus is like there's often long sequences and duration of time when you're often alone on camera so during this kind of sense of isolation how are you able to still give off like a really authentic and emotionally like gravitating performance just before you answer i'm just going to amplify because i i think it's starting towards a really like key thing like when you're acting with somebody normally you're you they have facial reactions or body movements or whatever anyone who's experienced the joining like like Zosha or whoever is no longer uh kind of giving you that back so I think you know how is that affecting your job and they have a terrifically difficult job I mean uh Carolina Weidra like playing Zosha like normally we mirror each other if you're getting hot in this conversation I start escalating right um or sadness and empathizing with people and she can't she cannot mirror me mirror me um and yet she's not a robot she's sentient so what's going on such a hard role and she was incredible in it um like we were speaking earlier the scenes with no dialogue I still have the same obligation to the story and for me I usually look at it as I do have a scene partner um sometimes it's the last scene partner I had that I am still thinking about that this is delivered to my my my wife that's lost the last interaction I had with Zosia I'm still thinking about her I'm imagining her sometimes it's about this the a person I'm avoiding hope they don't come um sometimes I'm delivering a speech when she's making tapes to an audience I hope receives this and she's imagining who that scene partner is and then thirdly uh is the same as you're doing um theater not direct address necessarily but when you are playing out I understand that I am inviting the audience to go down a rabbit hole with me so I am aware that I am still playing to them in a way um and then there's a very practical aspect of I've got 250 people on the other side of that camera that I'm doing a dance with.

1:14:05I'm never alone.

1:14:09Rhea Seehorn:From screenwriting, Hunter Tank. I'm going to beat you to it. Hi, Hunter. Hi. What was the most interesting thing you learned about yourself while playing a role like Carol Serka? I'm still learning. Most interesting thing.

1:14:30I mean, I felt very challenged. This is the most challenging thing I've ever done, shooting this for 11 months for 14 15 hours a day every day I learned that I can still grow and that when I'm surrounded by people that expect the best of me that I thrive and I challenge myself which was a really special thing because sometimes sometimes I definitely uh night before I was like tomorrow the jig's up they're gonna find out I'm not I'm not this good um uh yeah just pushing yourself just pushing yourself they weren't there weren't individual things really i did find out that your mouth can actually freeze and you can't articulate things uh didn't know that uh yeah vince is like i can't understand it are you saying astronaut i was like i guess what

1:15:15Rhea Seehorn:that's totally frozen let us go to chloe keck of writing for film and television hi hi my question is what are the benefits of working with the same director on multiple projects? Huge, huge. I mean, getting to work in this business, so grateful. Not a lot of people do. Getting to work on great work, even fewer people, and then getting to work with the same director and largely the same crew and writers. It's such a gift. And I've been telling myself because over the break, I was fortunate enough to work with quite a few different directors on different projects. And I keep trying to remind myself, like, is there a way to give myself the gift that I get from working with the same director over and over?

1:16:04And specifically, what I'm talking about is that I feel freer to take risks, because I don't carry around the burden of needing to prove myself. I mean, I still do. Like I just said, I get worried, like, oh my god, he's gonna think I'm not good enough for this. But in general, I feel very free 12, 13 years in with Vince to go like, I'm just gonna like, what if, what if, what if the, especially when we're doing these tone shifts, like, let's go like, balls to the wall, like insanely comedic, you know, over here in this moment, and very darkly psychological over here, and let's try something. And what if she's not listening and being petulant the whole time?

1:16:43Or what if she's actually trying to seduce her in this scene? And if it doesn't work at all, we all just go like yeah it doesn't really fit and no one cares and then I just try a different idea versus I do feel like I spent a lot of time on other sets and I think all of us do thinking like if I try something that doesn't work I expose myself to them finding out that like I'm not I'm not great right but you're never going to be great if you keep doing just the bare minimum to be good enough to be mediocre to like, you know, most of us can call it if you get good enough, you can you can pretty phone it, you can phone in a B game.

1:17:24But I want a and then tomorrow I want a plus and then the next day I want a plus plus and you have to take risks. So I'm trying, I'm really trying to be very present and active in saying like, hey, could I trust? Could I just try something and trying to be okay with the fact that if it fails, it's going to be it's going to be okay.

1:17:46Rhea Seehorn:I think we have time for these last three. Anissa Estrada, television writing and producing, MFA. Hi, thank you for coming. My question is, you give an amazing performance of a closeted character, something that so many lesbians, including myself, have identified with. What, if anything, did you draw on to inform your portrayal of such a complex lesbian woman? Coming from theater, especially launching into kind of submerging myself in the theater world, in the Washington, D.C. world, starting at like 19, largely inhabited by the LGBTQ community. They were my family early on. I'm my safe place.

1:18:34I'm a huge LGBTQ ally and it's very very important to me to take it seriously when I get to honor playing somebody in those shoes playing somebody that's closeted Vince was not trying to check off any politically correct box by doing that but he did he thought it was a really interesting element to add to the story that if someone who's being told by society, especially her upbringing, that she doesn't know that she would be happier if she would just do what they said, is now in a world where they're all saying this in a different way. And how frustrating and upsetting that would be to know to your core that you should not change who you are in order to be happy um and so I thought it was a beautiful thing and Miriam Shore is also also from the theater community huge uh LGBTQ community ally as is Carolina and um we thought wouldn't it be beautiful if we played a partnership that it's beside the point that it's two women um and I wanted it to be something where uh you just believe in this love and this real partnership and what they give each other.

1:19:53And for anybody out there that maybe isn't an ally, that maybe they would almost forget and just say, these two people love each other and this is a real relationship and it's as normal as any other one. Thank you.

1:20:09Rhea Seehorn:Max Perangeli of PR, Advertising and Entertainment Marketing. Hi, Ray. Hi. The World of Pluribus raises some pretty big questions about individuality, happiness, and what makes us human. Was there a particular idea or theme from the show that stayed with you after filming, one that will further influence you as an actor when approaching new roles in the future? About individuality? Yeah, like individuality, happiness, like what makes us human, like those kind of themes. Yeah, I mean, well, I'm still thinking about my crew member saying all romantic relationships are manipulative, but I'm like watching my partner like, what does that mean?

1:20:47um but i uh yeah there's a couple of things that specifically speak to what we do for a living and like um any of us in this business um that i still think about of like well what i was just saying like ambition what's healthy ambition you know uh individuality what was i thinking about the other day uh uh this idea of success and happiness and like um you know you were talking about my theater days and it was like I could have been happy doing that so is it okay to be driven to go and try to do something else and I know Vince had talked to me for a while about like that happiness doesn't have to be a place you arrive and you just sit in that for some of us happiness is the pursuit um and so that's something that I think about in my career all the time because sometimes I get I'm like why do I like wring my hands and stay up all night trying to figure out one more way to do this scene, but it's because it makes me happy.

1:21:46I like that part of it. So yeah, just trying to embrace it a little more, I guess.

1:21:51Rhea Seehorn:In one moment, we're going to ask Ray if she would be kind enough to participate in a tradition we have here with our special guests, which is to kind of just stand in front of, we'll have somebody come out here with everybody behind you. We'll grab a group shot if that's all right. Oh, fun. But to close us out first, we have a question from Sophie Wright of Film and Media Studies. Hi. Hi. I was wondering if the scenario Carol faces were to become a reality and you had the chance to be happy all the time, but at the cost of your own identity, would you be tempted? Absolutely not. 100 % no. No.

1:22:28I mean, for one, you'd never, like, have a belly laugh at anything again.

1:22:32Rhea Seehorn:True. Like, nothing. Because, like, laughter is like being surprised by something. You'll never see a play that you didn't already know. You'll never hear a song you didn't already know. You'll never read a book you didn't already know. No, I mean, no. And like, I, it's hard. I mean, he, Vince is very good at making sure both sides are representative because it makes a stronger argument and more to think about for the audience. And when Diabate is saying like, yeah, but there's no wars and there's no racism. And, but the question is like, at what cost? I would love for there to be no racism and no wars and no sexism and no homophobia and all of it.

1:23:09But if there was no individual thought either, I think like we'd all we'd all lose the identity within those things as well. So I'd be a hard pass.

1:23:19Rhea Seehorn:What a nice way to start the 2026, 2027 academic year. Thank you so much to Ray Sehor. Thank you, guys. Thank you.

1:23:45Rhea Seehorn:Thanks for listening to Awards Chatter. We really appreciate it and would really appreciate you taking just a minute more to subscribe to the podcast and to leave us a rating and review on your podcast app. And to follow us on Twitter and Instagram, where our handle is at Awards Chatter. On those platforms, we announce upcoming guests and provide details about special live recordings of the podcast that you can attend. Until next time, thanks again for tuning in.

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