Wanda Sykes - 'Wanda Sykes: Legacy'

29:39It's the performance. And I think she's like one of the best. Yeah. Especially physical stuff. Oh, my God. Totally, totally. I know one of the things she had expressed frustration about was just the way, I forget, was that CBS or what? Yes. Yeah. And the way that just sort of network TV can do things where, you know, they tell you one thing and then you get a whole deal. And I think you'd had a little of that with Wanda at large. Yes. And now you go on this show, which, you know, she wins an Emmy for and they still jerk it around. I guess. Was there any takeaway about just that you've applied going forward about or maybe you just have to approach things with skepticism with with the broadcast networks?

30:23Right. It's because I definitely experienced the same thing with Wanda at large. We premiered, I think, on a Wednesday night, whatever. But it was like after American Idol. And we held like, I think, like 80 % of their audience. So, I mean, you know, the head of the network called me the next morning. This was unheard of. This is amazing. You have a hit, you know. And our run on Wednesdays, we stayed in the top ten. Then the pickup comes and it's like, okay, we're going to try something. So we're trying a Friday night and we're going to put, I'm like, Friday? Who wants that? Who watches Fox on Friday?

31:05Nobody. No. And they said, we promise if it doesn't work, we'll move you back. That was a lie. That was the end of it. That was it. And so when it happened to us on CBS, what happened to Julia, I should say, on CBS, I said, oh, so it's not a black thing. I said, they dirty to everybody. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's crazy. Meanwhile, around the same time as you were starting on New Adventures of Ultra Christine was the second stand-up special, Wanda Sykes, Sick and Tired on HBO. I'm just going to mention the different stand-up specials when they chronologically come up here because I wonder if you can say a little bit about, as you look back, what they represented in your development as a stand-up.

31:50Was that one? Was there anything specific back in 2006 when you did that where it was like a new step for your progress as a comedian? Yeah, that one, I think I shot that in Seattle at the Moore. And we shot it and then sold it to HBO. Oh. Yeah. That's a good model, right? Yeah. But the thing I knew it had to be, you know, I had to knock it out of the park because somebody we already put the money in to shoot it. So now, you know, we have to get things sold. But yeah, I remember that one, I think, was I think that was doing George Bush. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Doing Bush. Yeah. Doing Bush. So, yeah, I just went really in on, you know, politics and there was another bit that people love from that one.

32:41I can't think of it. No, Drink Man I think is in the other one. I think Drink Man is in Tongue on Time. But anyway. But yeah, it was a big deal. Then when it was like HBO wants it, I was like, finally. Because that's what I always wanted. To be an HBO special. I wanted the HBO special. I'm not saying that makes total sense to me, but I'm curious why for you. It was the gold standard? Yeah, the gold standard. Absolutely. I guess going back to even like where you saw Whoopi was on that, right? I saw Whoopi on HBO. I saw George Carlin on HBO. You know, Chris Rock was on HBO. I want that. I want that snow.

33:24You know, you want that. So October 2008. Oh, here come the gay stuff. Well, no, no, no. But not in any bad way. I know. October 2008, you quietly got married, right? The next month, which is the month of the election that's going to result in Barack Obama becoming the first black president, but also the ban in California on gay marriage with the passage of Proposition 8. You are at a rally of, I believe, gay marriage support rally in Nevada. What happened there? Yes, I was in Vegas and it was the it was the national day of protests of Prop 8. I'm at the in this parking lot in front of the Gay and Lesbian Center.

34:13You know, a woman is speaking. The president is speaking of the and she said, you know, we have some allies out here. There's one in particular. She's always been supportive of our community and we're so happy to see her. So I'm looking around going, is Drew Barrymore here? Is it pink? Who's out? You know, I'm looking around and she says, Wanda Sykes, would you come up and say a few words? I'm like, oh, does she know that you were married? No, it's like she thinks I'm an ally. She doesn't know that. No, no, I'm, you know, I'm a victim.

34:48Oh, my God. Yeah. So I go up and I, you know, I make this speech and I said, you know, I just got married to my wife and proud of who I am and all these things. And then I walked back to my group, my friends, and they're like, you just came out. And I was like, oh, yeah, I guess I did. And by the time we got back to the hotel, it's already on the CNN crawl. Oh, my gosh. Would you do anything differently or was that okay? Oh, absolutely. But, I mean, like, do you think it in any way caused blowback for you or anything like that? Or was it, I mean, not saying you wouldn't or shouldn't have, any of that, but like what was the effect, if at all, on your life personally or professionally?

35:35Like personally, you know, my mom wasn't thrilled that I came out publicly. She wasn't thrilled. She just wasn't ready for it. But professionally, I don't know. You know, because, you know, professionally, people don't tell you to your face or, you know, they don't say, no, we're not going to book her because she's she's out now. No one says that. But if you're not working, you can kind of, you know, put two or two together. It does seem that very soon after that, less than almost, I guess, exactly six months, you had what was probably up to that point your highest profile gig, which was hosting the White House Correspondents Association dinner.

36:19And in that point, it was being noted you were not only the first black woman to host it, but also the first openly LGBT person to host it. But so I imagine – I mean that seems like it was – if there was going to be blowback, that wouldn't have – I guess it can come from other directions or whatever. Who knows? But that seems like a good thing. Very. Yeah. It was very good. The only thing, Scott, you got to remember that during that time, that was that first Obama administration. Yes. Remember they were doing a horrible job at vetting the cabinet. Remember they would say, oh, this is a nominee.

37:01And it's like, oh, not that guy. Oh, sorry. They kept digging stuff up. So walking into that room, I asked my publicist, I said, you sure they know I'm gay? Are you sure? Are you sure they know? Oh, my goodness. I assume they confirmed they did. So you mentioned feeling nervous that night, not talking much to the Obamas, even though you're up on the dais with them. But when you went on, you were on fire there. I went back and rewatched your set today. And you're talking about you're so proud he's the first black president. Unless he screws up at that point, it's going to be, you know, what's up with the half white guy?

37:43Then I thought this was, you know, screw this guy. Some people were sensitive about it. But Rush Limbaugh had said he hoped for the failure of Obama. You said you hoped for the failure of Rush Limbaugh's kidneys. There was a lot of great stuff there. Did you feel like was it what you hoped it would be that night? Yes. I mean I had that room rocking. Yeah. Yeah. I felt really good about it. It's a tough room, right, because it's so cavernous there at the Hilton where they just had the frickin' shooting at the Moser School. Or they didn't make it into the ballroom. But I mean, does that something like that, I guess, you know, people who aren't comedians may not even think in those terms.

38:23But like when the room is that massive and people are clinking, they're eating and they're clinking and drinking, all that. Does it make it a really hard room to play? It does. So you have to kind of focus in on you have to in your mind, just make it a smaller room. Yeah. Like if you look out that way or out in the wings, you're going to you're going to get lost. So I just kind of stayed with that small group. I kept looking at General Powell, Colin Powell. I kept looking at him and Madden Albright. I was, you know, and then, you know, President Obama's right here. So he's cracking up. I'm like, OK, yeah.

38:59Yeah, there was something about you'd never seen the nipples of a president before. OK, so that was May 2009. We can't catch you smoking, but somehow we're seeing your nipples. What the hell? I'd rather see you smoke. That was great. So May 2009 was White House Correspondence. October 2009 is the third stand-up special, Wanda Sykes, I'm a Be Me. And you talk about that one as a real turning point just in terms of your development as a comedian. This is the first one since the election of Obama, first one since you came out. Right. And I guess it seems like you were just sort of beginning to own who you were, right?

39:46Right. Yeah. You felt that you were elevating your game? Absolutely. And being back in D.C. where I started doing stand-up. So, yeah, it was like I was finally, you know, the handcuffs were off. It was the first time, you know, like doing an hour and can really just say whatever I want to say and just be open. You know? Yeah. It was a few years, I think, before the next one. That was probably the longest gap you've had between them. So 2009 was this third stand-up special, I'ma be me. And then the fourth, What Happened Miss Sykes, is 2016 on Epix. I read an interesting thing about what you were – just in terms of like kind of knowing and putting your foot down about your own worth.

40:36Like maybe the reason that one has a bit is a bit less seen or known was perhaps because it was on Epix. It was on Epix. People can't find Epix. Right. But you were talking about motherhood. And at that point you'd had a breast cancer scare. And then very funny about being a minority in your own home as someone married to a white woman with white children. It was great stuff, but the fact that it was on Epix wasn't a random thing, right? Right. The offer that I was, you know, given, I just felt like they were just really shortchanging me. Deal somewhere else. The deal. Yeah. Yeah. So I was like, you know, let's just get a deal somewhere else.

41:21And Epix stepped up, but, you know, they were just launching. Yeah. So you had to sign up for Epics first and then find my special. So yeah, it didn't get as many eyes on it as we'd like. But hopefully you can still find it somewhere. I think it might be on my channel. I'm not sure. That was the beginning of this decade leading up to where we are. So you've packed a lot of stuff into this last decade. And I'm going to just quickly touch upon at least some of everything. One of them, which I think is pretty interesting, people don't know the backstory, and I only learned about it preparing for this, of your association with Roseanne Barr.

42:10I think it's kind of interesting that – forget about the reboot of Roseanne. You first kind of reached out to her, right, about last comic – this was during last comic standing. Was she somebody who, you know, again, you love sitcoms, you were saying, and probably at a time when you were still not fully in the business yourself. Like to have a woman kind of creating and at the center of a sitcom, like she was at one time kind of a, I don't know if role model is too strong, but a model, right? Absolutely. Absolutely. She made her mark, not just as a comedian, but in that sitcom world. I looked up to her.

42:54And when we were producing Last Comic Standing, Paige and my producing partner, we were like, man, it would be great if we didn't get Roseanne to be a judge. You know, it's like she's, you know, she she has opinions and, you know, and I think she'll be also nurturing with these comics because she knows what it's like coming up in the business and also people taking jabs and all at her. So we had a great working relationship and I just enjoyed being around her. She was she was a lot of fun. And then some nights we, you know, you look at your Twitter feed and I'm going, what the hell? And it was like, we got to take her phone.

43:38It was just like a different person. Exactly. I'm like, who's doing this for her? But it was, you know, it's her. So the Roseanne reboot, again, keeping the chronology straight for people, was, this is right after Trump, I think, has been elected for the first time. And for a lot of people, including I think you, this was like the hope was this might be something that would bring people to talk to each other again. Yep, absolutely. I was like, this is going to be great to have this, you know, this show, which everybody loves. And you can have Roseanne and Jackie families seeing how to how to deal with this, how you can have a conversation and not, you know, shut down.

44:25And now you're not speaking to your family, you know. Yeah, so we welcome this opportunity. And Bruce Helford, the showrunner, he did my show, Wanda at Large, so I had a great relationship with him. So I was like, yeah, I'll come on and consult. Yeah, yeah. It's just the Twitter and whatever. It's tough. Well, the other thing that was happening around then, you got the fifth stand-up special, Wanda Sykes Not Normal, which is, again, like that show. So this is – I think this is your first stand-up special after Trump's election. I think the gist of what you said on that one, there was an opening early on.

45:02If you voted for Donald Trump and you came to see me, well, you guys are bad decision makers. You messed up again. You messed up again. Yeah. That was – yeah. I guess this is a tough one because I know I have the gist of how you feel about Trump, which is not favorable, and I'm right there with you. So I don't know if it's possible to separate that from what I'm about to ask you. But for comedic purposes, stipulating that he's horrible for the world, but is he actually, for a stand-up, good material? Or is he like how do you think about like do you look forward to trying to tell right or tell jokes about Trump or is it actually something that because I know sometimes when you perform them even you don't know what the response you're getting.

45:54You don't know who's in your audience. It can cause a ruckus. But like comedically what do you make of him? But it's so far out there that basically if you just repeat what he did or said, people are laughing already. So now it's like, well, you know, what's the punchline? What's the twist? You know, parody, you know. I think it would be good for comedy if his followers weren't so rabid about talking about him. You know, like when like George W. Bush, we could make jokes about him. And, you know, they were they were they were a tight party back, you know, under him. They were a tight party under him.

46:43And we were at war. So you could make a joke and they may disapprove, but it was like you could get a chuckle out of them like, all right. OK, that was a good one, but I don't agree with you now. You can't you can't do that. So it's. Well, you had a front row seat to that because you were supposed to be the guest the night that Jimmy Kimmel got taken off the air. I mean, I know that you've said, and I think probably quite rightly, that this idea of cancel culture has been an excuse for a lot of people who don't like that they got in trouble. You could say whatever you want, but there's sometimes consequences.

47:22But the difference in this case now, like has cancel culture actually started to become a real thing when people like Jimmy Kimmel are now with Colbert or whatever? Like, do you think it's actually become more of a real thing during Trump? Yes, but this isn't even this isn't cancel culture. This is this is fascism. This is what this is, because if you get canceled when people don't want to hear from you, you know, you're canceled. You know, you can't you can't get booked or, you know, people don't want to buy tickets. Yeah, that's that's being canceled. Yeah. This is from the government trying to shut us down and trying to end freedom of speech.

48:05So that's two different things. Yeah. OK, so again, just going through this crazy last decade for you. 2021 all the way through the very recent past was five seasons of The Upshaws, another TV series that you're both behind and a part of. Was that a first black something on that one, too? No, at this point, you've already been the first. Okay. But I do think there might be a first in the next thing I'm going to bring up, which was a night that I was present at as an entertainment journalist. And this is 2022 when you, as well as Regina Hall and Amy Schumer, hosted the Oscars. The biggest night there is in Hollywood.

48:49Yes. I don't know if that was something that meant a lot to you growing up. You know, the Oscar night or being an Oscar host would be a dream or anything. But like here you are, the biggest night of, again, that there is in Hollywood. and it kind of got derailed and not just derailed, but the person who got the victim in that situation was, again, people forget your kind of mentor. My guy. Chris Rock. Yeah. So I just wonder physically where you were as that night unfolded because I know everybody in the audience is kind of looking around like, what the hell is happening and what do we do? And like even, you know, I think people forget it's a big theater.

49:32I don't know. I didn't fully appreciate what had actually happened until later when I watched the playback. You knew something, obviously the screaming and whatever. But like at first we all thought it was a bit or a stunt or something with the slap. I just wonder where you were, how you processed it in real time. And just like I know you weren't happy about it, but what was your experience of that night? Now, we just finished our bit. We had a bit in the audience. So, you know, so we're going backstage and I went back to my trailer and was going to get changed. And I'm like, oh, shoot, it's Chris.

50:08So I want to be able to hear the audience. So I run back to the back of the stage and I walk in. I look at the monitor and I see Will on stage. And I'm like, did he just slap him? And it's quiet. and we're all just like, I'm like, is this, is this, I'm thinking the same thing. This must be a bit. And then when, you know, Will just back to his seat and saying all that, you know, screaming and everything, and back to his seat, and Chris was trying to, you know, keep his composure. He's like, wow, okay, now. And then he just continued. And I'm like, look at the stage manager. I'm like, do I need to go out?

50:54can I go out? Should I go out? And he was like, no, just wait. We're talking to the booth. Wait. And looking at it now, Sean Combs was the next person to go up. Sean Combs was going up next. Chris presented to Questlove. And then the next presenter was Sean. Oh my god, I forgot about that. Yeah. So I'm there like, Sean, you gotta to say something about this man you got to say something about this this isn't right this isn't right he goes like i got you i got you wanda i got you got you you know and then he's you know he's like hey we'll work this out at the beyonce party i'm like well that's not what i was thinking you know i think you were putting your hopes in the wrong guy yeah exactly right yeah yeah then i i was just i was really upset just disgusted that this industry just let somebody you know sit out there and then and then win yeah i i read at one point that you obviously in the midst of being personally upset you're still having to be on your toes because you got to get through the rest of the show right and did you have a a remark ready if if uh he was kicked out if will was kicked out and then won yes i was gonna do the uh unfortunately will couldn't be here tonight

52:23somebody has a temper oh my goodness well okay so that was 2022 2023 your sixth stand-up special one to sykes i'm an entertainer kind of looking back at your uh early years and influences and things among i mean it's hard to reduce any of these to a few talking points because you go all over the place but anything you want to say about about that one 2023 about the that special i'm an Entertainer for Netflix. I think that was your, was that your first? That was my second. Not Normal was the first one. That's right. That's right. That's right. I'm an Entertainer was my second one. I was really happy with this one.

52:59Not that I'm disappointed in any of them, but because I was able to turn it around pretty quickly, right? I think I did Not Normal and was that 2016? 2019 and then this one's 2023. That's pretty fast. Yeah, so I'm getting better. Yeah. Well, and then even less time between that and this most recent one. Right. So three years since I'm an entertainer comes, after that comes Wanda Sykes Legacy. This is, I believe, your seventh hour-long stand-up special. This one on Netflix just a couple weeks ago, right? Right. First of all, mention you went back to Hampton University to shoot it there. Was there, what inspired you to do that?

53:38A little full circle moment, you know? And also, you know, HBCUs have been, you know, under fire and budgets are getting cut so i wanted to show love to my school and also to you know just as to hbcus in general and i wanted to capture the the energy and the the vibe of an hbcu we brought in um julie dash she was so yes it was it was just an honor for her to say yes did she do it i i i didn't think she would i was like oh man you know has she done i obviously i know her her film work right has she done much with comedy no no no but that that initial call with her uh first i was surprised that she even took the call and then and then she said oh yeah i've i've seen your your you know your stuff and and she named other comics that she liked uh i said okay so she's like so what is it that that you want for me i said i i said i want i need to elevate this thing i want to give it a different look i'm going back to my alma mater i want to capture all of that I wanted she's like okay all right all right and then like within a week she sent me the like the storyboard for the opening and just how you know and then she went to scout the Ogden Hall where I shot it yeah so yeah she really she really just just turned it into something very very special and it looks beautiful does yeah not unexpectedly given the times we're living in There's a lot of good political material in there.

55:13You talk about missing 2016 Trump. Never thought that would happen. I know, right? Never thought I'd say that. That 2016 guy wasn't that bad now, was he? You talk about how after all the Trump White House officials throwing fits like Pound Body or whatever, you never want to hear about angry black women again. Yes, exactly. No. And then good old RFK Jr. bringing back old diseases. You said next thing you hear, my sister died of consumption. There's something about that. Maybe this is a weird thing to fixate on. But like if you say my sister died of – pick another kind of extinct illness. It maybe doesn't have the same punch as the word consumption.

56:04Do you spend a lot of time like with something like that? But like how does something like – how do you develop a punchline like that? Is that – just take – I'm curious about your process because it's sort of like even like another great fellow, another great comedian like yourself who we had on here once was Seinfeld. And he's talking about, again, if you even stutter in your delivery or something, the joke is gone. So choosing the word even is such a key thing. I wonder if you remember how that one came together. Well, it was from thinking about watching westerns. Yeah. Like my brother, he loves, I'm going to go to his house, he has a western on, right?

56:48And the way, you know, they showed medicine back then, it was always something crazy, you know, biting on a piece of wood and tined leather and he's a leech, you know, just all kind of crazy stuff. So I just, yeah, so I said we're going to go back to this style of medicine. I think you talk about mason jars yeah mason jars yeah and one of my favorite movies uh tombstone Val Kilmer yeah playing playing Doc so he died of consumption yeah so then there's also just kind of some of the great observational uh humor that you do and in this case I think the one that maybe provoked the most uh nods and people thinking about things definitely do you know what I'm gonna say the self checkout oh yeah can you can you familiar if anyone hasn't seen it yet can you just tease what that's all about it's uh you know we're now we're now cashiers that's our job i mean before it was like a little novelty or just a little convenient thing you can go check yourself out but now there you can't find a cashier it's all self-checkout and yeah and it's like We don't even realize we're working at a grocery store.

58:02Yeah, you don't even realize it. I mean, and what really drives me nuts is when there's a line at the self-checkout. It's like I am waiting here to work for free. That's great. Yeah. Was that or maybe is there something else that when you look at this special that you're proudest of? Is there a bit, a joke, anything that you're like, this is, I did well here? Oh. And I'm only saying this because that line came to me like maybe like the night before. That's because I ran the show at the DC Improv. And I think that line came to me. And then the next day I'm shooting the show, you stab like a Guatemalan.

58:50When you find a tag just comes to you, you know, it's like, yeah. You know it. Because you're still thinking. You're not just going, okay, this show is solid. I don't need to change anything. You're still working on it. So last two things, if I can. Just first of all, curious about just your thoughts on the comedy landscape of today where you've got, just to give a few examples of things that are going on, we mentioned sort of the craziness with Late Night right now where people are being targeted. We've got – I think you were a presenter at the Golden Globes and kind of noted some of the characters – remarked on some of the characters that are out there from Bill Maher to Ricky Gervais.

59:36And some of the subject matter that some people are using and feel is acceptable for comedy with trans stuff or whatever. And then other – that's another kind of thing that's going on. Another thing, so many high-profile comedians went to this festival, comedy festival in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. I don't know if you were approached and declined or just how you – but I mean like just what do you make of – obviously you can't talk about everyone with the same broad stroke. But like there's – it seems like a weird time of some strange characters out there in the world of comedy right now. Yeah. Yeah.

1:00:16My take is what's what's the purpose? Why? I just wish that people would focus on moving us forward. And these are some really, really funny comics and I know they can do it. So you can be just as edgy and, you know, and challenge us to be better, you know. And I just think that's that that'll help instead of hurting people. And I guess lastly, I want to ask – I mean the variety of stuff that you've done over the course of the career but particularly in the last, again, let's say decade. In addition to the stuff we've already talked about, I didn't even mention you were on Black-ish for – got a couple guest acting Emmy noms out of that.

1:01:05The kind of Louise Jefferson on the Jim Kimmel Norman Lear live reboot for ABC of the Jeffersons. You worked with Mel Brooks on Hulu's History of the World Part II. I mean it seems like you're open to doing all sorts of different things, not limiting it to stand-up or even anything. So I wonder other – apart from stand-up, which I assume you will do forever, are there any other things that you specifically want to do that you haven't necessarily done yet? or are, you know, I guess just like what's your outlook? Hmm. Well, I'd also shout a drama. I did that movie. Oh, yes. Oh, yeah, the boxing.

1:01:53Undercar boxing. Would you like to do more of that?

1:01:56Wanda Sykes:If the right script comes along, yeah. I really enjoyed that. That was, yeah, I loved that. But, you know, something that hit me the other day, I was like, you know, I think I would like to do that, and that's host SNL. You have never hosted SNL? That is insane. That's ridiculous. That is insane. We got to, I mean, okay, so again, stipulating like that obviously has to happen and should have happened 30 years ago. What is it about SNL that makes that something exciting to you when you've done so many other things? You know, I like sketch, and it's still a big show, and especially with the late night going down, that's just an incredible platform.

1:02:48Yeah. Have you ever met Lauren? I think like way back when he was doing something with Chris, but it was like just in passing. Yeah. All right. Well, that's got to happen. And looking forward to that and whatever you do. And thank you so much for doing this. Really appreciate it.

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