Lloyds Banking Group CEO: The End of Halifax and the Future of Bank Branches

24:39But we have more than enough capital in this country. My single institution has about a trillion pounds deployed largely against the UK. We have a three billion pound venture capital fund. And so we are trying to work with some of the other companies and the government to say, could we create this area around venture capital that could really give those kinds of businesses. And what would incentivize that? What would juice that? So first of all, we need people willing to set those, put the money to work so we can get people together to do that. Really interesting, as always, in my experience, it's about the talent that can do those investments.

25:09We have brilliant companies. We have brilliant ideas. We have great IP. The talent to put that kind of money to work and take that risk, it hasn't been focused on the UK. So as I work with some other financial services companies, we're doing some work with the government at the moment on this. We're trying to say, who could we actually get to manage that money? And I think we can make a difference and we can make a difference soon. Really interesting. You talked about one in five businesses in the country banking with you. It means as a result, I'm going to tell you this phrase quite a lot of times, I think, throughout this interview, but you just get such a good view of what's going on in the economy.

25:40So where are those businesses right now? If you could sum up, I guess, how they're feeling, their health, their optimism around exactly perhaps some of the things we've just been talking about. They're getting their hands on the cash. Because that's what growth is, right, isn't it? It is. So as you say, small businesses are the lifeblood of an economy. They're like 99 % of the numbers of companies, obviously, but they're about 60 % of the growth and employment. And what's brilliant about them is they're right across the United Kingdom. They're in every community in every part of the country, which is what Lloyd's Banking Group tries to do.

26:11look I think it's a mixed picture at the moment the good news and this is true for households as well and it's a message that's quite hard to get through more broadly is financial resilience of businesses in general not all sectors and I can come to that but businesses and households is actually at the best level it's been since the financial crisis so when you look at cash flows and savings and then indebtedness i.e how much they're borrowing relative to either their income or their revenues as a business it's actually at the best levels we've seen since the since the financial crisis. So that's the good news, if you like.

26:42And it means I always like to talk about it as a we have the potential to get moved to a higher investment and growth trajectory. But look, for businesses themselves, they've had a tough time recently, there's huge geopolitical uncertainty, the political uncertainty doesn't help their costs of employment costs of borrowing, and then costs of energy are really quite high at the moment. And as a result of that business sentiment is actually okay the combined impact of those two things but their ability to invest employ people and look to the future is not that great at the moment so they're treading water basically yeah and the great news is they are in general you and one of the things you learn in my job is you never want to say that phrase because there are some businesses especially in some sectors hospitality is a very challenged sector that really are struggling to make ends meet but in general they're pretty healthy financially but they're not looking to the future they're not investing that's got to be one of the priorities for this country how do we help them get the confidence to start investing because that's going to be the most important way of getting jobs getting productivity and getting some growth and loads of that let's be blunt about it it's about politics isn't it it's about policy and one of the reasons this podcast exists is to try and give business leaders a chance to talk about business in business terms rather than always in the framework of politics but has that become more difficult in the last couple of years and i'm not just talking about this government but in the last maybe 10 years that policy and the uncertainty that's come along with chopping and changing of policy seems to dominate when i talk to business leaders of your scale huge companies right down to people employing a few people who come on some of our programs who seem to all say the same thing and it doesn't matter really what their political background is that actually that sort of political noise and chopping and changing has been really difficult to work through yes i think you need to go one step bigger first and say the world and the geopolitics of the world has been challenging for a while now.

28:33But obviously, let's see, we're just going back five years coming out of COVID. Obviously, the invasion into Ukraine, the conflict in the Middle East, and then two oil shocks on energy. That's a really difficult context for economies and for businesses. And the UK has actually weathered it pretty well. I always use a very exciting phrase when I talk about our economy, as we are extremely resilient, but slower growth. So that's when you look at the facts. We are very resilient. Our households and business has been just shown phenomenal ability to adapt to everything they've been through. But we aren't exciting around growth as we look forward.

29:11So yes, it has been challenging. And then on top of that, we've had the instability around the various governments. And, you know, I've obviously been here in my role for five years now. And we've been through a number of those changes in government. And we're coming up for another one again. And all the noise that in the build up to that, I was looking at the papers this weekend, just thinking what we can use that we might chat about. Taxes on your sector, one that comes up again. Yeah, the really important thing is business in general, and then for the UK to be investable for international foreign direct investment, which is such a big part of what we do.

29:45And for large international corporates and businesses to want to do business in the UK, they do want some level of stability. And that remains really important for the UK to be successful. Look, on top of that, when you look at the policy decisions of the various governments, they have been committed to increasingly trying to make an environment where the UK stays a very attractive investment destination. We are, depending on which measure you look at, either the first or the second outside of the US, best country to continue to invest in. And then when you look at the strength of some of our industries, independent of the political environment, as you know, because I know you talk a lot about it, we still have some of the leading industries in some of the most exciting growth areas going forward.

30:21But that's why the commitment around things like the fiscal rules, which will give people confidence that there'll be a financial framework for the UK that businesses can invest in and international investors can invest in the UK, remains really important for businesses as we look forward. And then just getting some clarity on what the policy framework is so that we can just start to move forward and build for that future. That balance though, isn't it? And we'll talk about it as though it's team Burnham, right, because it does seem it's going to be. The difficulty with that, having those fiscal rules, and then also saying that you're not going to touch the big personal taxes again because perhaps for some of the reasons that we've talked about already as well does lock you in decisions-wise, doesn't it?

31:00And it does then as a result start looking around for sectors that look like they're healthy. Yours, your profits look healthy. Oh, we'll have a winful tax on that. Yeah, so I think the first thing before we go to worrying about that is what has worked in the last few years. And it's been really interesting when I came into this role, partly because of some of the changes that were happening in Westminster and because of who we are we spent a lot of the time working with local combined authorities with mayors with regions on three or four really big things housing and getting housing going infrastructure investments which could be transport it could be broader science parks that kind of stuff the energy transition and especially in places like the northeast and Scotland where we've got the North We'll see there's been massive investment into those areas.

31:45And then supporting SMEs, especially linked to our great universities. And we're lending again this year,$35 billion to commercial, to corporates in the UK linked to that activity. What's been really interesting is local combined authorities, the mayors, and then the local leadership have been very effective at mobilizing that kind of activity. What's been interesting about, we'll see who will be the new prime minister. But one of the things he's talking about is continuing to accelerate all of that activity. And for me, that's a really important thing. Focus on what's working and keep it going.

32:15What do we need in addition to that? As you say, the fiscal rules will be constraining. Look, I think we've got two really big things and we've talked about one of them today. We need to create incentive for businesses and environment and incentives for businesses to want to invest and to build the businesses, the jobs and the growth of the future. That'll be large corporates, but it's got to also be small and medium sized enterprises because they do that right across the country. And then the second theme I'd say is we really do have an opportunity to be a world leader around how we use AI to make our businesses and I'll put financial services, which is about 10 % of the economy, right at the center of that.

32:53We need to be using that to transform our businesses and then grow our businesses internationally and domestically so that we're a winner and a leader in this new space as we go forward. But presumably a tax, a windfall tax, a tax on your profits would impinge on your ability to do that, to invest in some of those projects that you're talking about. So tax on any sector is a political decision. We're already the highest taxed sector in the UK and in financial services across any advanced economy. But it will be a political decision. I'm going to stay focused on what we do, which given our strength, our resilience, and then the progress we've made in the last five years, I'm going to be able to continue to invest.

33:30In terms of that confidence picture, tax will stop across the landscape, piling more tax on, perhaps not the answer from your perspective, to unplugging some of that. So as you say, the fiscal rules are a difficult thing to breach. And I think which we'll see which have the government forms and what they commit to. But if they do commit to not using the big taxes, what they're going to be able to do is relatively constrained. Yeah. And as you say, also, there's some big things happening in the world with the defence budgets changing. Let's hope and let's really hope for our businesses, for our economy, for our households.

34:04The uncertainty in the Middle East does stay where it is. But if those things stay level, then I think we need to focus into how do we drive what we were saying. The future around our businesses, our industries, and then really continue to invest in our communities. Place based economics, I think, does have a big place in this next period. and Andy Burnham did say one thing, a few things in the last few weeks which have been interesting. He's talked about this innovation economy which I think is quite exciting in the context of what we've been talking about today. You must know lots of those people around him.

34:33Have you had conversations with them or him? So we've worked with all the mayors and local combined authorities extensively and we're going to continue to do that because whoever gets into the government hope we will have to work with because we are an apolitical organisation that supports the whole of the UK. And yes, of course, we've had a chance to work with him and his team as well. And we've done some really successful things in and around Manchester. So broadly, do you think he's someone who can then drive some of the changes that you think are necessary to kind of get growth going again?

35:03Again, I'm not going to comment on individuals and the politicians. But what we have seen is the growth and the investment that we've seen in the partnership with business in and around Manchester has been a successful model for making change happen. And we just talked about the broader framework if we maintain stability if we have clarity around whatever the fiscal rules are going to be for business for investment and then we can start to lean into the things that will really make a difference not just the supply side reforms not just the stuff that we've been focused on to date but also creating confidence investment and taking the most out of the this big tech boom we've seen i think there's a huge opportunity for this country to move to a higher growth growth trajectory nowhere has been more place than homes right and But again, every government of every colour has tried to take on this mantle.

35:51Basically, we're just not building enough, are we, at the moment? What unplugs it and what are you seeing? Because, again, alongside what we were talking about before is Britain's biggest lender to businesses. You are our biggest mortgage lender as well. What are you seeing? What helps? Yeah, biggest mortgage lender, biggest housing association lender, biggest lender to builders, small and big. Look, on homes, it's a deeply frustrating starting point. And we should just pause for one second. we have less homes available at social rent today than we had in the 1980s. We have a million less homes available at social rent.

36:20Now, what does social rent mean? It typically means half the rent of whatever the local rent is in that community. And so we do have a housing crisis. Can you put your finger on, because you've got an event today, haven't you, on social housing in particular. As your starting point, when you and your team are getting ready for that event today, can you put your finger on what it is? Why is that? So, well, the first thing is on social and affordable homes. Actually, the government has put in place some very big initiatives, £39 billion of investment in housing, a new tenure rent settlement, a£16 billion housing bank.

36:55And we do think that's going to unlock a lot of investment, especially through combined authorities, mayors, and I think what Andy Burnham's calling councillor housing. And that's great, but it's not enough. If we just do it from taxpayer-funded activity, you won't build enough homes. You won't get the one and a half million that this current government's called for. We separately with a charity called Crisis have called for a million of social homes available at social rent, which is actually an even more challenging target over the next 10 years. So there are some really good things. They are starting to make a difference at the local level.

37:27Those grants need to flood out to the local combined authorities and the mayors and the councils. And we need to continue to focus on unblocking planning and getting those projects live. At the same time, the really difficult thing is the commercial house builders, small and large, which will do the most of the house building on whatever target we set, the viability of projects for them has actually got worse. What does that mean? It means the cost of building a house now in many locations across the country is above the cost you can sell them at. And that is the significant increase in the cost of housing, of supplies and build costs.

38:05It's borrowing costs have gone up. And then And building standards have continued to increase. So planning is part of that, but it's not enough by itself. And so the next government, if they really want to move the broader commercial house building, they're going to have to look at those viability issues and work out how do we help them navigate this very difficult moment in time. At the moment, commercial house builders are slowing down because they literally can't build the houses at the cost they would sell them at. What are you talking to partners about then about doing that? Because some of those things seem very, in fairness to the government and to you and to the hospitals, seem quite a long way out of their individual control.

38:42Yeah. So, look, there's a lot we can do. So starting at the social and affordable end, partnering with local authorities and finding ways of financing with taxpayers' money and private money, which is one of the things we can obviously do brilliantly, how you finance what we called the small sites aggregator. but looking at brownfield inner city locations where the land exists and you create financing structures to build homes. And the government has actually started that in four locations and there's a playbook we can roll out right across the country and that can make a big difference. Housing associations, about 15 % of the housing stock, we have what, 28, 29 million homes in the UK are run, 15 % of them are run by housing associations and they are resilient and they are looking to finance new ways of building.

39:26we've lent 23 billion pounds to them uh over the last six seven years and um the partnering with us partnering with the national wealth fund which is supported by the government there are new ways of financing house building in that sector and they will always be biased rightly towards social and affordable homes so that makes a difference look the new towns where there is a commitment to new towns you can get large scale what they call multi-tenure so social affordable and private development going. I think the really difficult thing is how do we help commercial house builders? Because that feels chicken and egg, right, when you're saying it's getting more expensive for them.

40:05They often come on, we've had a few of them on this podcast, haven't we, in the past, say, actually, the demand isn't really there because people have to have too high a deposit or they can't get a mortgage easily enough. Presumably all of you are sort of in that circle together waiting for each other to move. How do you get the whole chain to move again? Yeah, so it's the kind of things I'm talking about unlocking. It's commitments to big developments or specific playbooks with combined funding mechanisms. Look, for the commercial housing sector more broadly, obviously the cost of borrowing is part of the story.

40:39But actually it's the basic economics of building a home versus what the house prices have become, which is less about borrowing. Actually, the mortgage market is pretty healthy and first-time buyers have really had a strong couple of years. it's much more about the underlying costs of building and there's going to be some important decisions for the government and house builders around how much of their housing stock they build is sociable social versus affordable versus private rental and then the applications of the new housing standards are putting additional costs on homes and that's slowing things down round us out on housing then supercharging that where my you've talked about the kind of the top end of that i guess the policy end of that where my interest rates i'm sorry where do you think your mortgage rates and overall kind of interest rate might be going give people a sort of what you guys are seeing and what you're kind of projecting because you're presumably looking well into next year too right yes i mean this has been uh it's been a step change since the last decade or for the 2010s to 2020s most people are looking to get a mortgage which is fixed over the two or five year period and we're obliged to price that based on what people expect the interest rate to be in two or five years.

41:49And our view for a long time now has been that's going to be in about the three and a half percent range. So mortgages in this three and a half to four and a half percent range, we think is quite a horrible phrase in this context is the new normal. Yes, in the last decade or the 2010s, we had mortgages in the kind of one and a half to two and a half percent range because interest rates were at zero and expectations were very low on interest rates. But that's been true now for quite a while. You'll remember when we still had interest rates at 5.25 and they were fixed mortgages started coming down because expectations were that rates would come down and now we've had um interest rates stable for a while mortgages been up and down partly based on the conflict internationally so the best thing a government can do and the best thing we can do is try and get stability and confidence in the economy that brings down the cost of borrowing for the country and that brings down the cost of borrowing for uh for our mortgage customers but I think the new normal is somewhere between three and a half and four and a half percent for the foreseeable future and just to link a couple of things you talked about your kind of personal story about your upbringing your mum's battle I guess to get finance to start her company can you sense that when you're talking about as well parts of the country where there is more frustration people feeling left behind that if you are a young person thinking god it's really much more difficult for me to get on the housing loan than before perhaps you're a young person would like to start your own company and actually you know you explained it well but it's more difficult more expensive for me to try and get the money to kick that started can you see and sense that frustration do you have empathy with those you can you can totally sense the frustration we haven't talked about younger people which is one of the really you know frightening areas where people are getting left behind more broadly the neats issue as it's being talked about but it's just on the facts does that concern you i mean can that have an economic impact on you Yeah, it absolutely could.

43:38And maybe I could come back to that. But just on the facts around mortgages, the average age of a first time mortgage buyer has increased again since the crisis from age of 32 to 34. And I think now two thirds of people are taking out a 30 year mortgage. So they've extended the life of the mortgage, and they're taking on a 34. And as you know, well, because you'll have the same experience, the for want of a better phrase, the bank of mum and dad is right at the heart of many of those first time by our mortgages. The good news is actually this government, prior governments have made it easier from an affordability perspective for people to get access to mortgages.

44:16There is more ability for the banks to provide mortgages to higher levels. We've got this great product we've just introduced called a£5 ,000 mortgage. And we chose that because that was, I think it was the 1990s. The last time the deposit was£5 ,000 was that age. And we've got these great social media ads with people dressed like I used to dress in the 1990s. I don't want to see how I was dressed in the 90s. So there was some really good innovation, but that's the reality. The reality is it's harder for people to get on the housing ladder, and at the moment the cost of borrowing is going to be higher than it was in the 2010s.

44:54It's gone back to where it has been long term. It was where it was in the 1990s, but as you know, the cost of housing relative to first-time salaries is hard. And then, yes, on young people, I've got two kids that have just graduated and I'm so grateful they've got jobs for next year, but that was not the consistent experience. And when we look at people aged 16 to 24, there's now 13.5 % of them, up from 11 % pre-COVID, that are not in education, employment or training. And if you think that includes people aged 16 to 18, that's a huge percentage and increase. And if we don't help those people get on the housing ladder, build their skills, start saving for their futures, in a world where the number of young people is decreasing relative to older people, the demographic shifts I know you'll have talked a lot about, the economic implications for this country are really challenging.

45:47So we all need to lean into that. We've actually increased the amount of graduates and apprentices that we recruit into Lloyds. We recruit about 600, 500 to 600 a year. But I think more interestingly, we've been given about 26 ,000 people below the age of 18 some level of work experience through our different offices and locations. I wanted to ask you about exactly that, especially with AI coming in. One, with AI with your own kids, was that what you were finding and their mates, for example? Is that the number one thing that's shifting the kind of jobs market for those grants? I think it's more complex than that.

46:24It comes back to the whole discussion we just had around the current environment. There is a level of uncertainty around businesses and their ability to invest. The cost of hiring, especially for graduate and entry level and apprentices, has actually increased. And I know you've reported on that a lot. and with a less certain environment with the geopolitical uncertainty they have and with the costs that they're dealing with that's what i think is impacting broadly recruitment has that shaped you guys as well and your views on graduates i suppose as a company as a group yeah no so we we um uh actually have taken a slightly different stance so i said we've actually increased the number of apprentices and grads um it's partly because we're we're very lucky we We have about 65 ,000 colleagues right across the UK.

47:08London, for what it's worth, is not our largest location. Less than 10 ,000 of those colleagues are in London. They're spread from Edinburgh, Glasgow, even further north than that, all the way through Halifax, Leeds, Manchester, Bristol, Belfast, Cardiff, so all the way across the country. And we need two things. One is talent is our future. Interestingly, financial services, even though it's very tech-enabled, tech is driven by talent, not the other way around. And then secondly, we know this next generation are incredibly good and agile and adaptable around using some of the new technology. So, yes, we've increased our commitment to graduates and apprentices.

47:45We've increased our commitment to giving experiences to young people. I didn't have a clue how to behave in a business. I knew I had a soul of souvenirs. But, you know, that's really important. And then actually for us in this last five year period, we've hired nine, 10 ,000, I think almost now tech and data people. So the roles that we're seeing growing are more tech and AI and digitally oriented. But actually, we've been investing in graduates and talent right across the business. What we are seeing is people need to adapt to learn these new skills and work out how to be right at the forefront, whatever age they are.

48:23In the medium term, that kind of, well, maybe short term, that competition, I suppose, between AI and those people trying to get upskilled on it, though, there's only going to be one winner, isn't there? And that's presumably going to be quite a tricky period for the jobs market full stop over the next few years. Look, I think it's too early to say on that. What we are seeing is people's roles, our colleagues, and their roles in businesses more broadly are changing quite quickly. so you're seeing new tools ai tools being deployed people are having to look at some tasks and take them out um and that's definitely one thing that we really need to support people across the whole of the uk if you think i love this our purpose is helping britain prosper and what i love about that is it suddenly makes us team uk right it means that we care about the uk uh improving its prospects growing its economy and really enabling its workforce and its talent to be you know fit for the future if that happens actually my shareholders benefit so for me it's very very easy to have this discussion but um first thing is people need to adapt they need to invest and we need to as leaders in industry and certainly in my industry provide tools and support to all of our colleagues to do to do that the second thing is we're seeing a whole bunch of new roles emerging and i talked about the digital the ai um tools that we've built within our industry i see that in every industry There are new roles emerging.

49:44And then the real question is how quickly do the other roles adapt and how quickly do they move into these new roles? I think that's going to take quite a while. I do think it's going to emerge over the next five years, but it's going to take longer than that. And so the opportunity is for people to make sure they're right at the forefront of the skills using these new technologies that are relevant to their role and then thinking about which roles are emerging in the future. you know i spend a lot of time with my kids talking about what they should be doing at this stage and still i think as they enter the workforce um you know learning how to work in an office being curious learning the new ways of working using these tools and then working out whatever your passion and purpose is is still the right advice for people it doesn't change just a final one on that then ai in your business and you guys using it at lloyd's lots of people when they hear ai being used they just think oh well it just helps their profit margins so they don't need as many human beings in there anymore what were the benefit what cost were your customers see as the benefit from you guys using more of it and within the company so i talked about some of them earlier look i'm so i'm so excited about what we can do for customers um i'll give you a couple of examples the first one though is as a kind of example is how do we bring the kind of advice and services that weren't the only people that were wealthy or big businesses could get and make it available to everyone so we've launched two or three things which are right at the start of this one was about investment advice so enabling people to have a conversation about how they should think about risk where they are financially should they pay down their debts before they start thinking about investing and then if they do invest and our tools at the moment are not getting there yet they'll be there within a few months what should they think about for investments as we said earlier unless you had a hundred thousand pounds to invest which 95 of the population doesn't then you couldn't really get access to those tools and services an even more simple version is just having a conversation with your money so we've put in front place these uh agentic ai tools but these ai tools to have a conversation with your everyday spend to work out how do i how do i spend my money more wisely how do i avoid fees and charges how do i think about starting to build savings pots so really building financial empowerment for people and we've done one also around our pensions and investments and something as simple as helping people work out why if they invest a day and hold it for 10 years it could be worth 10x 20x through the value of compounding most people haven't been taught this stuff people feeling like they don't have to ask i suppose yeah because people get embarrassed about things they don't know so that's really exciting and we think it's going to really transform or financially empower you know businesses households individuals over the next period of time the other part to it is protecting customers i said safety is at the heart of what we do um i've talked before about uh the fundamentally difficult really challenging issue around fraud and protecting customers from fraud it's harrowing when customers go through that we're already using ai and we're an ai leader around protecting fraud but there's some amazing things coming with ai to continue to make that even better and easier we just launched a something where people can take a picture of a ticket and we can do use ai to validate whether it's a real ticket or not and give them advice in the moment in the journey that makes sense so that's huge kind of making it safer easier uh simpler and then for us um we talk about simpler smarter more connected more making easier to connect across the dots of all these financial services products or needs that you might have um and then at the same time you know my obligation is to make sure i'm empowering our colleagues and transforming our organization to be fit for that future and to be faster and faster at deploying these experiences without going 100 back to where we started um we are starting to launch new products or experiences for customers at a faster and faster pace um now i now i'm talking about having two core relationship brands rather than three with bank of scotland and lloyd's and halifax coming into lloyd's we can just do that at a much faster pace for our customers going forward and that's exciting so interesting last quick stock take before you let it go amazed we got 50 minutes through because i think the last few times that we've talked on the today program now slightly more rapid fire thing we've talked about this a lot but it does seem to sort of continue to drag on car financing is that it the set aside now what is it 1.9 billion that you've set aside do you see that and would you like that to finally i know we've seen another delay out of your hands but how much of that is sort of a cloud over the industry i suppose that that is still there yes the 1.95 billion that We've set aside, we think, is our best and final at this stage estimate of how much we need to set aside.

54:17You've been through many iterations of this. We do think the scheme the FCA has proposed at this stage for customers and for the industry is the best way forward. Obviously, it's now with the courts, and we'll find out either at the end of the year or start of next year whether that goes forward. The one thing I'd always say to customers with respect to car finance is if you've got concerns, just contact us. I think the FCA has also said this you can decide to get legal representation but if you come to us directly you won't have to pay a legal representative and we're set up to support you in the way we need so if you're nervous contact us and then let's see what happens with the courts we'll be ready to implement what we think is what gets agreed coming out of that and I'm going to steal your own line to round us out here Charlie helping Britain prosper there's a big old thought sum it up for us in a sentence or two then what would do that what would help and who has to do it well the first thing is the uk and britain is a phenomenal country with phenomenal assets and we have the potential we have the potential today and in the future to move to a higher growth trajectory it starts with confidence and a story and a belief in what we can do and then i think we need government local combined authorities and mayors and business to come together and just start to unblock the things we've talked about we need to get energy down we need to be a leader in AI.

55:36We need to get skills and universities and our brilliant people into the jobs of the future. We need regulatory reform to be successful. And of course, we do need housing and infrastructure and transport to work alongside of that. But this is about building a story and confidence so that we can start investing for the future. Charlie Nunn, the Chief Executive of Lloyds Banking Group. Thanks so much for your time this morning. Thank you.

56:02thanks to Charlie Nunn thanks to Will Bain for that don't forget Big Boss Interview comes out every Thursday now so if you hit subscribe you'll get it delivered every week you can also listen to Wake Up To Money with me Will Fliss every weekday on 5 Live from 5am and on BBC Sounds as well

56:20Charlie Nunn:The United States is about to mark its 250th anniversary and so on the Global Story podcast from the BBC we're telling surprising tales of American influence on the world stage and in ordinary people's lives all across the globe. We have this ability to export our story and a lot of people have bought it. I feel like the American dream is alive but not well. From the BBC, it's the United States at 250. Listen on bbc.com or wherever you get your podcasts.