The growth playbook behind Revolut's $100B+ growth engine - Antoine Le Nel [Revolut]

18:24Antoine Le Nel:And the most amazing thing that we see is that basically what you have is you get a churn very early on, very early on, the big drop of churn. And from that moment, churn is negative.

18:40Billions Host:Okay, yeah. It's only expansion. Once people pass like a certain, let's say 30 days or more. Yeah, but then what happens?

18:49Antoine Le Nel:Once you've passed that date, not only those ones, they stick, but the one you lost in the first drop, you win them back. So it means that your curve of DAU drops at the beginning and then goes upward, which means that if tomorrow at Revolut, I would stop all acquisition, I would stop everything, you know, I shut down onboarding, I would actually win users.

19:19Billions Host:Which is pretty. Yeah, it's insane.

19:21Antoine Le Nel:And that's what you do, you know, when you look for a job and so on, that is the due diligence that you do. That's the due diligence that I did on Revolut. When you know, and when you work in VC and so on, and you need to know where you want to invest at an angel investor, etc. Don't look too much at the revenue, etc. It's irrelevant. Look at the business fundamentals. You look concretely at your unit economics. What are the ones that really are different to anything you've seen? And then once you've seen that, then you can scale and then you can make billion-dollar businesses and so on out of that.

19:59Billions Host:And I'm curious to build up on something you said. So you mentioned that you had the biggest drop in the early days. So I'm guessing that very clearly you can identify based on the action people are doing the kind of like stickiness or you can predict in some ways the stickiness. So let's take an example, totally made up, but I'm guessing that if someone like opens a Revolut account and then, you know, start to put even more money into like a saving account and then start trading, that person is way less likely to churn than someone who just came in, didn't get their card on time or whatever, whatever could happen, etc.

20:39Billions Host:So do you also look at the kind of key actions in SaaS, we would say like an aha moment or something like this, that would drive potentially more stickiness? And have you ever like worked on gross experiments to increase certain actions to drive more stickiness over time?

20:58Antoine Le Nel:Yeah, I mean, of course, you look at deposits. So the amount people are depositing in the first week on the account is usually a great prediction of the stickiness. You know, there are other things. For example, I've been fighting to keep the delivery of the card. You need to pay for it. It's not free.

21:21Billions Host:Yeah, of course.

21:23Antoine Le Nel:And while all other banks, it's always free to get the card. you know yeah well two reasons why i do that the the reason number one is from a transparency perspective you need to make people pay what cost you money yeah so that you i mean the card so they show the value they understand the value yeah and they so i have shipping fees i mean this is yeah you're paying dhl why why the other banks they'd rather do that free but then they charge fx super high, but FX does no cost. So why do you charge things that doesn't have a cost and you don't charge things that have a cost? So you do that. But then most importantly, if you buy your card,

22:06Billions Host:you're going to use it.

22:08Antoine Le Nel:So you actually buy your engagement into the product because you make a commitment in the very beginning. It's very small. I think I'm independent markets like 7, 10 euros and so on. So it's a small amount but if you spend seven euros in buying the card and getting it shipped home etc and put it in your wallet you're going to use it.

22:31Billions Host:I bet you're going to use it. And to be honest I was actually like super impressed with the shipping and everything. So I was actually like I ordered like a new card on Revolut and it was in Paris like last week when it was snowing. So DHL couldn't do delivery in the city center in Paris. Obviously, it's France, you know, like when you have two centimeters of snow, the whole country shut down. When we're not on strike, that's what happened. And I basically like I'm leaving Paris to be in South Africa for the winter. So the cart couldn't be delivered here. So I just went on the app and I was like, okay, like how am I going to explain that to a support agent so I can get my car delivered, like where can I pay etc.

23:17Billions Host:I just went on the app, I say didn't receive my car, here is my next location, it's a totally different country. I thought it would be like impossible to do, you know, with a traditional bank I knew like that happened to me with HSBC back then where, you know, like they never willing to deliver the car to whatever country they needed. And it was so smooth. So I'm like, why would I go back? you know like it's just insane and and building up on the on the story so i'm not going to mention like the the competitor we were using in for for for my company but we're making like for context for people around 45 million annual recurring revenue with my company and we switch from a bank to Revolut.

24:07Billions Host:Before, you were not doing like B2B. I mean, a few years back, I would guess like the B2B products were not so advanced. So we decided to change. For us, it's crazy. Like we're saving a lot of money, etc. And the product is truly amazing. On your side, how do you see like the split between B2C and B2B? Because for me, like obviously the biggest pain that I see, you know, whenever I'm working with, we're also like very profitable. So we have a lot of cash. We invest our cash in different places, etc. But with traditional banks, it's like a mess. And they have like many, many products they can offer.

24:49Billions Host:Revolut has a lot also. How do you see kind of that split? Because obviously companies have a lot more money than individuals. So what's kind of like the future strategy?

25:00Antoine Le Nel:So on this one, you have, there are two ways. there's the, let's say, more short-term tactical view that we have. And then there's the more high-level strategic objective. If you look at the more tactical view, it's to say that this is a big market, business banking, and we want to get into it. And that's what we're doing. So Revel Business is a place where we're investing more and more. I represent today almost 20 % of our... I mean, people don't really know much about Revel Business, but it's almost 20 % of our business. we passed 1 billion of ARR and if you look at the company it's worth 75 billion so that means Revolut business is worth 20 % of that so 15 billion dollar business so it's not a small business even if you look at competitors they are nowhere near but the thing is that you're sitting next to such a giant which is Revolut retail and so on it's living a little bit in the shadow but we are working on removing removing this at the moment.

26:03Antoine Le Nel:Now, so one objective is to say, okay, we need to address that. That's why we are building treasury offers. That's why we're building some payroll capabilities. That's why. So we're expanding a lot so that it's focused from all the way SMB, mid-market, all the way to enterprise. So that is quite tactical. We go, we have a sales team and so on. We hammer it, et cetera, et cetera. and we try to build that as we're leveraging our tailwind that we get from windtail.

26:40Antoine Le Nel:Now, the strategic thing, which is a lot more interesting, is we're going to have hundreds of millions of customers. So that's retail banking. We're going to have millions of businesses. And we are building and we have built, as now, at the moment, all the payment gateways and the payment funding. So it's RefPay, which is like a complete scale of all the payments. So now you see where I'm going, where suddenly you have the merchants, you have the companies, you have the end consumer, any of the payments in the middle. That's it. And then he brings three huge benefits. Benefit number one is that it's a lot quicker.

27:31Antoine Le Nel:Everything is super seamless. It goes super quick because you don't...

27:35Billions Host:Instance, yeah.

27:36Antoine Le Nel:Probably. The second one is that it's super safe because it's all in one system. So you don't have connecting systems between payments, third-party solutions, here, that, and so on. A lot harder to hack from that perspective. So super safe. And it's a lot cheaper because we cut, because in payment, there's a lot of intermediation.

27:55Billions Host:Yes.

27:58Antoine Le Nel:So you remove the value chain and therefore for the merchant, much cheaper, and then a lot more benefit for the users. And that's how we launched, for example, RevPoints. RevPoints is now a huge loyalty thing that makes... So now, for example, booking now, you can buy in booking with RevPoints. So you can use your points to pay on booking, etc. And then booking is saving a lot because if you pay with your points, etc. So the idea here is to really create this ecosystem that's going to change everything.

28:30Billions Host:That's insane. And do you... RevPoint, I think it's only for B2C, no? Is that something... For the moment.

28:37Antoine Le Nel:But we are using a new card that is called Titan. For businesses? For businesses. So it's Italian care-up businesses where you win points as well from what you do and then you decide whether the points go to the company or go to the individual directly to your retail account and so on.

28:57Billions Host:You're gonna make millions of entrepreneurs very happy because the only car that was doing that so far was Amex and Amex service is just a huge pain. I mean for accounting and everything. So quite insane. And I'm guessing that if everything is centralized also, you're going to remove the pain of, for many businesses, I'm guessing it's a pain, like the invoicing. Because if you add like the merchants and the payments, you can do what most banks can't do, which is you have the transaction, you have the buyer, you have the provider and just, you know, recoup information.

29:33Antoine Le Nel:Exactly, exactly that.

29:35Billions Host:You got me excited about Revolet.

29:42Billions Host:no that's uh that's really insane and when it comes to um efforts b2b versus uh b2c you mentioned that b2b was about like 20 of the business but you also started it a bit later so how exactly do you split uh you know like resources toward the the b2b and and b2c so i think it works

30:04Antoine Le Nel:that's the way we work at Revolut. So things are quite, we try to isolate things as much as possible and reduce interdependencies because that's what kills companies and that's what makes companies slow. It's all those interdependencies that you kind of impose yourself. So what we've done is, I mean, business is kind of operating in a completely different way to retail. Now, it's a bit easy because it's not the same app, so you don't work on the same tech stack. It's a lot more web, obviously, than mobile when retail is the other way around. But we do the same as well, even within retail, meaning the crypto team is very independent from the savings team, who's very independent from the credit team, who's very independent to the trading team, to the RevPoints team, etc.

30:55Antoine Le Nel:So we've built the organization and the tech stack so that everyone can work in a very autonomous way. And I know companies, they love to break silos, you know, and put people as a middleman here, facilitator there, coordinator there, and so on. That is the cancer of an organization. That is the moment you start. No middleman. Oh my God, it's the end of it. It's the absolute end of it. And I think that's one of our secret is creating that level of autonomy and accountability. Because then at the end of the day, you build a huge amount of accountability for each of the products. And that's the case for business, which is a very independent business unit building their product, building their business, responsible of their KPIs, etc., etc., which I think is a key reason of the success.

31:50Billions Host:Can you share maybe like, maybe one, I would say like, small team that worked on a dedicated project, like how the team is structured, how much resource do they have like financially, and what are the expectations to know whether or not, you know, like the project is kept or killed?

32:10Antoine Le Nel:So one team, so the Telco team is a great example. I don't know if you heard, but we've launched a mobile info.

32:20Billions Host:Yeah, yeah.

32:22Antoine Le Nel:So, and it's super interesting. So we started this a couple of years ago. there were some people that said, hey, we're great in travel. How about we offer Travelism and see whether we could sell just data plans. You know, you travel to Japan, which is super expensive if you do roaming there and so on. So let's see if we can do some data roaming. So a small team was put in place. They got their resources and they got time to prove themselves and see whether that works and so on. So they developed their product. They integrated the product inside the app and they were super well. It works so well that then the team said, well, let's go to phase two.

33:07Antoine Le Nel:Let's not just sell travel SIM card. Let's just sell mobile phone. Let's just sell the whole thing. And that's what we just launched a few weeks ago. Now in Poland and in the UK, you can just you have Revolut Telecom, you know. So basically, you get your phone, your phone number and everything now with Revolut.

33:28Billions Host:And that's it. Are you going to roll this out towards like all the countries? Yeah, yeah.

33:33Antoine Le Nel:I mean, we're working on the rollout, global rollout. But ultimately, Revolut is not your bank anymore. It's your mobile operator at the same time. I mean, the tech is easy, you know, it's just easy in cars and so on. And you can just scale suddenly a lot more than just banking. and now we're becoming a mobile operator and we're going to grow in this because at the end of the day, the onboarding is that simple because I already have all the data that I need from you. I know your payment solution because of course you're going to pay with Revolut. So you just need to click and that's it. You get your own thing.

34:11Antoine Le Nel:I can transfer your phone number and it's all done in a very Revolut way where the user experience is super sleek, super simple, super easy. and everything is fully integrated and it's very easy. And best experience you can have.

34:26Billions Host:So very nice. And is there...

34:29Antoine Le Nel:A team that really started alone with an idea, and they grew, they made a first proof of concept, worked on the travel team, and they worked, and then they moved to the second layer, which then became a much bigger thing.

34:42Billions Host:How big was the team originally, would you say?

34:45Antoine Le Nel:I don't know, it was probably 10, 20 people.

34:47Billions Host:okay okay so very like lean and uh and small team okay and now yeah there's the whole telco

34:53Antoine Le Nel:department at revolute it's probably 20 30 people i mean it's all the teams are all very small there's no team more than 100 people this i mean everything everything is super super super small super lean

35:04Billions Host:super fast and and what happened like do you have an example of a project that didn't work maybe like where you had like this same like small team of 10 people started phase one phase one was not

35:16Antoine Le Nel:conclusive so they decided to roll back yeah i mean i think on we've had a few things that like for example the buy now pay later i think we we've launched that it's live in in ireland the truth is we launched it as well when the interest rates were going up so it was not necessarily the right moment and so on so we kind of pulled back a little bit on it we launched i I remember some pet insurance. We wrote that because, again, it could just be an acquisition tool. You know, people don't necessarily have access to that. So you sell the pet insurance. But then at the end of the day, you just come through that and then you explore other things and so on.

36:03Billions Host:Yeah, that is not pick up at all.

36:06Antoine Le Nel:Well, but it's fine. You know, it's fine. You just keep on moving and you keep on exploring. So some things work, some things don't. But you move on.

36:15Billions Host:Because I'm guessing also, like, I mean, I'm not sure that the case or I mean, if you can do it or not, but you obviously have like all the data of what people are buying. And the more Revolut is robust, the more people are going to use it. So the more data you're going to get. And have you ever like leveraged the data of, you know, like what kind of payment people are making to offer like certain services?

36:41Antoine Le Nel:so no so so i mean i mean there are many things you can do as you know we okay super careful so we don't look at individuals are spending and so on okay i think the it's more like for example we're working with some uh when we work with partners as i was saying a booking etc etc but uh some music festivals now we are big partner of some music festivals where we process payments, they were telling us, well, actually, guys, 50 % of all the spend were actually coming from Revolut. So you guys, like, that's it. It was actually organically 50 % of the people going to the music festival were actually paying already with Revolut.

37:28Antoine Le Nel:So then you use kind of this to say, well, let's just move everything to Revolut then. It doesn't make sense. So it's more of an aggregated beta than saying oh i know you do this and therefore i'm gonna give you that you need to be very careful with those things because you can do some stuff but do you really want to do to give

37:48Billions Host:the feeling to the people that we have the they're being watched and yeah okay it's you need to be very careful with those so yeah yeah no no makes sense makes sense i mean personally i think i i like it when it's the right product at the right time and uh but uh but i understand and um Typically, in that case, with a music festival, because you said they moved the payment infrastructure, like for example moving to Stripe from... is that it?

38:14Antoine Le Nel:Yeah, so Primera Sound in Barcelona and Porto, which is a huge festival. Now all the payments, whether they are online when you buy your tickets, whether they are there when you buy your beer and so on, and now everything is being processed by Revolut.

38:31Billions Host:How exactly? What's the playbook to go from, you know, I'm a new bank to I become the leader in that country as a bank and think tech?

38:44Antoine Le Nel:So the playbook is quite straightforward. And it has evolved a little bit. the paybook we're doing at the moment is first you go in the country, you put a team to get the banking license. So you get the banking license that will then help us to launch the full Revolute product. Because what we realize is that when you get a license that is only on part of the things and so on, where you can only launch not the full product, but some of the product, etc., etc., then it doesn't work. It's like imagine if Gmail had different functionalities in one country versus another. But that doesn't work. It's not possible.

39:32Antoine Le Nel:If you claim being a global bank, you need to be able to have the same product in every single market. So that's what it is. So item number one, get the license, then adapt the product, but usually should be as light as possible. Most of it is on the onboarding because the regulators are asking for different things on the onboarding. That is always very country specific on how you do things. But the core of the product is the same. What is very, very impressive compared to other banks, like you named HSBC, is that HSBC, the app of HSBC in the UK, in Hong Kong, and so on, is not the same app. It's a different app.

40:18Antoine Le Nel:Revroot is the exact same app. So in Japan, in Brazil, in Norway, in Poland, and so on, is the exact same app. No difference. The only difference is that we manage server-side. What, how, I mean, the onboarding differences as well. Some products are not wrong. So for example, we are currently in test with mortgages in Lithuania. So that means technically everyone has mortgage in the app.

40:53Billions Host:But they don't.

40:55Antoine Le Nel:It's not turned on, it's hidden. It's hidden, but everyone has mortgage in the Revolut app, even if you live in New Zealand. Technically, it's there. It's not that it's not ready yet, so we are still improving the product, etc., etc., in one market. But that explains as well why the tech stack and why we are so agile. because compared to a bank, they really work as a completely independent unit and therefore the tech stack is duplicated. They are duplicating the tech stack by the same number of operations that they have. Well, we have one tech stack that basically covers it all. So when I develop something somewhere, then you pass it through the regulatory coloring that you need to put, but at the end of the day, everyone gets it.

41:44Billions Host:Nice.

41:45Antoine Le Nel:Yeah, so it's much faster.

41:48Billions Host:And do you see any really serious competitor or someone where you're thinking, like, okay, they're doing a lot of really great things and they're moving fast also? Or do you feel like at the stage and the scale you're at, you're really dominating now?

42:10Antoine Le Nel:So we have a lot of great competitors in many markets, but we don't have any competitor at a global level. In the sense that I think in the UK, there are some great players in the UK. In France, there are some good players in France. And in Brazil, I think some really stronger banks, neobanks as well. But then there's no one that is global. So you always need to look at it very locally, etc., etc., which means that I think a lot of those new banks and so on, I think they've done really good from a product perspective. I think some have a very good product. But I think what they have not managed to do yet, which we have, I think, at Revolut, is not just scale the product, scale the users, but scale the compliance and the regulatory aspect.

43:06Antoine Le Nel:Because today we're live in 39 markets and that means you need to manage regulatory, etc, etc, of 39 markets. And that is very difficult. That is very, very difficult. And I think that's something that we've done pretty well now.

43:23Billions Host:Kudos to the compliance team. I'm thinking they must put a lot of work and effort.

43:29Antoine Le Nel:They are, they are, they are.

43:31Billions Host:I was talking with...

43:32Antoine Le Nel:It's like in a lot of companies, you know, you have... And probably even more in the bank, there is so much work happening in the background. So, of course, it's easy to see the Formula One thing, the music festival here, etc. That's the shiny part of it. But the amount of work that you have in the background is crazy. It's crazy.

43:58Billions Host:Yeah. Talking about Formula One, congrats on the new partnership. Is the plan for Nick to be on Netflix next year?

44:08Antoine Le Nel:Well, I wish, I wish, but unfortunately, Netflix doesn't talk to brands. They only talk to team principals and their drivers and stuff like that.

44:21Billions Host:So sometimes we see sponsors. I don't know if you remember that scene in one of the seasons where one guy is basically like talking to one of the great, I don't know, like sponsors or whatever. And it's quite funny because he doesn't know who she is. And she's like the CEO of that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I see that.

44:40Antoine Le Nel:But I'm not sure it's Netflix. I'm not sure it's Netflix. I think it's just Sky TV or something like that.

44:46Billions Host:It became a meme. I don't know. It was like it went all over the Internet and you're like, she's an Ryo. And it's like, yeah, it's insane. Okay, no, that's cool. And when it comes to this kind of partnership, because I mean, I kind of have a sense of the way you work and I'm sure like you're extremely data-driven. You came from the gaming industry. Revolut is known for being like extremely data-driven. So we spend one, we look at all the metrics, the unit economics. Branding is always kind of the toughest part because I feel like in brand, you also need to make like big bets and believe in some way.

45:25Billions Host:So how exactly do you decide for such partnership? And do you have ways to track in some ways the impact?

45:35Antoine Le Nel:So there are two ways. I look at it in two ways. The first way is to say that you need to push the product integration as deep, deep, deep as you can. because that will help to build as much attribution as possible. So whether it's on the ticketing, whether it's on the merch, whether it's on the business banking, because now, for example, the team is going to run on Revolut Business, and we do the same, for example, with football teams. So Como, for example, Como is part of Revolut Business. so it means that all the transfer or the football transfers are done through Revolut so you get the commission on the players' transfers so when you really start to really implement as much integration of the product as well as the payment solution so for example you'll be able to buy the Adidas jersey etc.

46:37Antoine Le Nel:in the shop well guess what the payment gateway will be well it will obviously be Revolut so you try to really integrate because not only you get the ROI from it, but people see firsthand what the product is. They experience the brand. They experience the product firsthand. You'll get some shiny co-branded cards that people will buy. If you want a super nice Revolut Audi F1 card, you can buy it. So you get the ROI for it. So that's the first element. The first element is to say that you need to integrate to really dig as much as you can into your...

47:18Billions Host:Brand partnership, yeah.

47:21Antoine Le Nel:Then the second aspect, as you say, at some point there is some belief. Now it's about what percentage of your budget do you put into belief. And the way I look at my marketing budget on my funnel is that I have a high percentage of my marketing budget where I have a full, full attribution. So, last click, etc. So, I can really understand exactly how much the money out and the money in. Then, I have somewhere in the middle where I have, so it's a much smaller place, but I have a bit softer metrics. but I can still run ROI, but I can run ROI, but over a longer period of time. So I can look at my ROI at the quarterly level, etc.

48:14Antoine Le Nel:And then it gives me at the end, maybe a 5-10 % where you can do like the wow stuff, you know, like really.

48:22Billions Host:I just love that. It's freaking amazing.

48:27Antoine Le Nel:That is why we're doing F1 in 2026 and not in 2023. free. Because my wow budget was all back then. Now, because the percentage stays the same. But then because suddenly the top number goes up, it means I can just put a small percentage of my business, of my marketing into really wow, wow stuff. It must be super wow. So that even though maybe there are some parts that I can't measure, at least it's really memorable and really make an impact. Now, because I think you can still measure it, but I think the time you will waste measuring it is not necessarily worth it. And it's always been debatable, et cetera, et cetera.

49:15Antoine Le Nel:So then at some point you say, you know what? This is just amazing. We're going to be legendary if we manage to really make it even a generational sponsorship because that's what you want to do at the end in F1. You want to be the Marlboro of F1. If you manage to, because we are taking this team from the very beginning, there will no one be for us as Audi. And if you make it a generational thing that kids have with a poster in their bedrooms, then you've made it. Measure the ROI of that is very difficult, but you've got to go with your guts at some point.

49:54Billions Host:I love it. I think that could have even been on Mad Men, you know, like this kind of talk for creating something like intergenerational and making it last. And I agree, like it's insane. Like if you can have winners in Audi in the next, let's say, like five years and having Revolut in the back or the helmet or whatever, it's just just insane. I know we're almost running out of time and I want to just bump again on a question I asked you earlier because, you know, we talked a little bit about secondaries and liquidity and you mentioned that it was kind of like different H-Revolute. I know, you know, like I think recently Nick did like a tender where he basically bought back like some of the shares of past employees, etc.

50:46Billions Host:I mean the company bought back the shares of some past employees, how exactly does that work internally do you have the ability to sell your shares what's kind of the amount can you maybe go through because we have a lot of entrepreneurs and C-levels listening to the podcast I'm sure some of them are interested and hyped to join so I guess it's always a good question too

51:11Antoine Le Nel:yeah of course Of course, of course. So we've been running in 2024 and 2025 secondary rounds. Secondary rounds are basically ways for current investors to sell some of their shares to new investors without passing through a public market. Then the price is decided, the price is made, and then you look at how many people are actually interested in buying this at this price. So that gives the ability for early investors, for founders, and for employees to suddenly have a bit of liquidity. I think the champions of that are Stripe. They do that every single year. I think the CEO even said that he doesn't even know that they would ever...

52:14Antoine Le Nel:If they want an IPO.

52:15Billions Host:Yeah.

52:16Antoine Le Nel:He does his Nikigiti event every year, sells a little... I mean, all the early investors now, they may have exited event, and then you have the new ones, et cetera, et cetera. And honestly, you have all the benefits of being public without all the disadvantages, which is the quarterly reporting, etc., etc. It's very different being public. So then what does it mean? I mean, at Revolut, then what happened is that, you know, I mean, basically you get an idea of how subscribed it's going to be. That defines a bit of a budget. And based on that budget, you tell the employees, this is the percentage of your stock that you can sell.

52:57Antoine Le Nel:And therefore, there was a fixed percentage that was given and employees could tell or not. Because some people might think, I mean, there was actually that thing that, well, maybe I can do better than that. You know, let's wait a few more years. It all depends if you need the cash or not. And they will see. So that has been incredibly successful because as well, it's a great retention tool as well. Because of course, when you're in a company that is private and stays private probably longer than what you would have thought as an employee, giving those liquidity events is a great retention tool.

53:40Billions Host:And is the goal for Revolut to IPO in the years to come? because you mentioned Stripe and I think it's David Collision, like we said, you know, we have like the liquidity on private market now. So why would be public and just like, as you said, like do all the shit board documents that you need.

54:02Antoine Le Nel:I mean, I can only say that it's not going to happen in the short term. I think it's great not having to focus on that. Okay. I know how companies become public. It's a big disruption in your operations, especially at leadership, management, etc. As well, it's a risk that you take because suddenly it offers full liquidity to maybe to think to people that you don't want to be fully liquid, etc. So I think it's not a priority for us.

54:36Billions Host:Yeah, and I'm guessing, as you said, like the moment and you've lived it, like the moment you decide like to go and IPO, it's not something that just gonna happen overnight. Like it's a whole process, which means that technically like you also defocus from the business, the growth, your users, your concerns. Yeah, so that's interesting. I know we are almost out of time, so I'm gonna ask like the last question. I mean, time flies. So first of all, like thanks a lot because you've shared so much value. It's quite insane. Maybe like one question. So if you could go back and tell yourself one uncomfortable truth when you started, what would that be?

55:21Billions Host:Like a lesson from your 15 years at hyperscale companies.

55:29Antoine Le Nel:What would I tell myself?

55:39Antoine Le Nel:I think I was not seeing the value of brand I see the value of brand now it's very clear to me it's very very very clear I was I'm an engineer so I never studied marketing and I was a very ROI believer and now I really see it. I really see the value of the brand and the importance of it. So make sure that whatever you do, protect the brand. Protect the brand and then enhance the brand and build on that. And that is true for B2C, B2B and everything. Make sure that you're consistent with your brand and that you keep on nurturing it.

56:27Billions Host:That's great advice. Where can people follow you and follow your updates?

56:33Antoine Le Nel:I don't know, on LinkedIn I guess. LinkedIn, yeah.

56:37Billions Host:Alright, we'll put your LinkedIn profile there. Antoine, thanks a lot and have an amazing day.

56:42Antoine Le Nel:Thanks a lot, thanks Guillaume.