Honey Don't with Mattie Lubchansky

9:26Griffin Newman:I've never seen the Age of Adeline. A film that our friend Richard Lawson has always mildly defended. I've always heard it's pretty good. Right, like Harrison Ford actually giving like a committed emotional performance is like probably Michael Huisman grown up or something. Have you burst in? No, it's Harrison. I think. I will not accept any kind of. No, David.

9:46David Sims:I think Michael Huisman is maybe Harrison Ford's son. And the whole bit is that she falls in love with him. And she previously had fallen in love with Harrison Ford. And he brings her home. And Harrison Ford's like, you're the same woman.

9:59Griffin Newman:What's going on here? Why didn't you age? I haven't been this freaked out since David Blaine was in my kitchen. Get off, my son. For those at home, I'm pointing. Those were both good jokes. I think we both just, it's like we hit opposite field doubles in either direction. We're in sync today.

10:18David Sims:This is what I'm saying. Best episode ever. Like, David and I are just fucking like, we're in the flow. Well, it's been a minute. It's been a minute. Speaking of.

10:27Griffin Newman:Although we recorded without you, Ben. Ah, yes. One time. We went to the zoo.

10:31David Sims:But speaking of going to Italy with your lovely wife, our producer, Ben Hosley, just got back from a honeymoon with his beautiful wife in Italy.

10:39Griffin Newman:Yep.

10:40David Sims:And he was telling us how surprised he was by how much he enjoyed the experience of driving down the roads in Italy. Vroom, vroom! Oh, yeah. I really had fun with it.

10:50Griffin Newman:I was taking those curves.

10:52David Sims:Avanti, he was saying. But feeling... You were saying ciao bella and putting your hand out the window doing the little fisting motion. And then I said, But it shouldn't have come as such a surprise to him with all the hours he's logged playing Mario Kart. He knew what a great experience it was going to be to be a real Italian driving down roads. And of course I had a show with me. He had a show with him. I will say, the same trip that we were in Milan, we got off the plane. We went to where we were staying, and it was above the mechanic's garage. And the literal first thing I saw was an Italian guy in red overalls with a mustache.

11:22Wow. And me and Jai just looked at each other like, we're really in Italy, baby.

11:27David Sims:And he was like loading banana peels into the front of his car.

11:32Griffin Newman:Yeah. Now, I don't want to spend too much time, but I will share that I did plan on bearing jeans. It didn't work out. You did text about this. Yeah. There was a delivery issue with the ceramic vessel. Like an urn? Yes. Like you're doing grave goods in ancient Sumer? Well, what I use is I use Korean fermenting like vessels. best episode ever and so it didn't end up arriving at my hotel it wasn't able to do it i also though had separately delivered a collapsible shovel i didn't take it out of the packaging i brought it to the airport apparently you're not supposed to travel with a collapsible shovel doesn't shock me how are you supposed to bury jeans in other countries the shoveler has to stay within the lower 48 well also i mean he respects the rules yes i'm saying

12:24David Sims:So I tried to explain at the Rome airport why I had the shovel. They didn't really get it. Ben's lovely wife, Nellie, sends us a text at 4.06 a.m. And it is a video taken from quite far away. You can't hear anything of Ben gesticulating with whatever the equivalent of a TSA agent is right at the airport. Carbonieri? And the text is POV. My husband's collapsible travel shovel gets flagged. Get this text. Going through at the airport in Rome. That's beautiful. And let me keep it, man. Ben's response was they threw it out, said I shouldn't have it. I guess this was sent to Marie and I. Rude. Rude.

13:06Griffin Newman:Ho bisogno di se parallel dei jeans. Apparently, that's a I need to bury some jeans. Our guest today is a writer who doesn't just have titles.

13:15David Sims:She finishes books. she doesn't just say we have an idea I'm holding a finish you hear this that's a hard cover that ain't her first book in the land of simplicity a novel no it's called simplicity right it is that is that's a dumb affectation of mine that I insisted doing to make it look more like a book from the 19th century because I'm insane we love that if you look the subtitle is like a paragraph long so I should have listened to the meaning of the title and given into the simplicity of just the one word title It is a gift to be simple. From the author of Boys Weekend, another book that you finished.

13:51David Sims:Great book. Mandy Lubchansky. The books are also good. Friend of the podcast, first-time guest, but friend of the podcast, someone we've both known separately for a very long time.

14:00Griffin Newman:Yeah. I suppose that's true. I'm so glad to finally be here on Talk Tua, I believe is the show. Hell yeah. Is she back? I saw she was streaming Fortnite. She should be back. I saw she was back the other day. Let's bring her back. Did she endorse Soren? Is she going to have Soren?

14:14David Sims:Let's get Sally Hawkins in to bring her back.

14:18Griffin Newman:Okay. So I see the joke there. So I remember, I know that she was in the Hulu show Chad Powers starring Glenn Powell. Oh, is she? She's in an episode of that. Right.

14:28David Sims:Where they're comparing notes on being washed up celebrities or some shit. It's like a meta casting gag. So maybe she had to. She has playing herself, yes.

14:35Griffin Newman:Had to, you know, to come back after her Mean Coin scandal.

14:39David Sims:There was a thing where she appeared at VidCon and like 60 % of the audience walked out in protest and complained to the organizers because they were offended by how lewd her material was.

14:52Griffin Newman:Oh, damn. And I was like, she was going blue.

14:55David Sims:Not the part where she scanned everybody. You were not led into this fucking like convention hall. Yeah. At gunpoint. You said, I'm going to sit down and listen to the talk to a girl in conversation. It's a fair point.

15:09Griffin Newman:It's kind of a dead dove do not eat. I don't know what you were expecting. She is famous for an extremely illustrative and colorful, humorous explanation of blowjob giving.

15:20David Sims:I want to ask each of those people, what is she famous for? Why are you upset right now?

15:26Griffin Newman:She's famous for being America's sweetheart. What are you talking about? Why isn't she in Honeydon't? Why isn't she in Honeydon't? Five minutes of pep from Talk Tua.

15:34David Sims:If she's in Go Beavers, are we excited? Sure. If they announce. I'm there. Yeah. I'm beaver coin. you'll buy a beaver coin. I'm seated day one for Go Beavers. I am simply so seated. Couldn't be more seated. It is nothing like Cannes. I'm in a chair. Exactly.

15:48Griffin Newman:I won't be giving an ovation because I'm seated.

15:51David Sims:This movie comes out first week of September in the United States of America. This film came out

15:54Griffin Newman:in the very hot late August corridor. Last weekend of August? Yeah, August 22nd.

16:03Griffin Newman:It screens at Cannes and May. It was at the Cannes Film Festival. You see it around then? I was shown it right then by the good people of Focus Features who were like, are you going to do like a simultaneous review? And I was like, oh, maybe I guess we'll see what I think of it. And then I saw it and I gave a polite boobs review on Letterboxd. We'll talk about it on my podcast in six months, glowingly. I mean, it was very much a sort of like, hey, I kind of like Drive Away Dolls.

16:34David Sims:So, fuck, yeah, I'll give it a, sure, give it a whirl. I like driveway dolls. That episode was recorded before I'd seen Honey Don't. I feel like I had a very genuine defense of that movie on that episode. After now seeing Honey Don't twice, I would even defend driveway dolls more. Yeah, sure. I would agree. I didn't like driveway dolls at all when I saw it. But I was like, I'll keep, I think Mr. Cohen has had enough. He deserves a second chance from old Matty. Like, what do I know better than him? So I'll go see the new one. Yeah. And now I'm like, was driveway dolls good? I like Driveway Dolls.

17:07Griffin Newman:Driveway Dolls is a movie. It functions as a film. Exactly. It's a film where the beats basically make sense to me. I'm basically with it the whole time. I think there's something to the main couple. I think there's some real emotion in it that I find affecting. Honeydome is basically a movie that I was kind of out on from the start. and then the ending was so bad like that it really sort of hurt the rest.

17:37David Sims:I'm like, I'm kind of with it until the last 20 minutes.

17:41Griffin Newman:I think that's, yeah, that's fair.

17:42David Sims:And it's such a disastrous ending that it basically undoes everything I liked about the movie up until that point. We'll get into all of this. Sure. Here's the timeline I want to spell out. You see it, right? Yeah. When I saw the trailer, I was kind of encouraged because I was like, okay, it looks a little formally tighter. There's kind of a genre riff happening here. There's seemingly a central plot thread of a mystery. This maybe looks like slightly more of a movie than Driveway Dolls. A fun lark that I enjoy. Then David sees it, and he's like, it is less of a movie than Driveway Dolls. I did warn you.

18:14David Sims:Okay, so we now have this on the schedule coming up six months from now. And he's like, kind of not an exciting way to end a six-month series. But you know, we've had some great apps.

18:25Griffin Newman:And this is a great app, but we've discussed some masterpieces. we've had good times digging through big movies so I'm just glad after a run of giving a lot of smaller artists and people a chance getting someone really big on like me to talk about this well here's

18:39David Sims:Maddie Maddie this is the road I'm paving okay Maddie Maddie David's like who should we have on as a guest and I'm like here's what I think we should do let's wait until the movie comes out and see if anyone defends it

18:53Griffin Newman:or even just has a reaction honestly because it kind of felt like a movie that was gonna to go nowhere and it kind of was like it just came out to shrugs and negativity and was mostly

19:06David Sims:ignored and we don't need to like this movie no despite what some people accuse us of we never pretend to like movies for the narrative of a miniseries only do that for money when the money

19:15Griffin Newman:clears exactly that's what the money's for that's a briefcase right dollar bills yes that's what i'm

19:21David Sims:looking for right we don't do it to make the episodes better right um but the movie comes out there are not really vocal defenders that rise but i see you posting takes that are at least like considerate of like i struggled with this yeah i tried to like it and right before we started recording you were like we all dislike this right i'm not going to be the one who like yucks everyone's yum we're like no i just think you seemed very quickly like someone who would at least be interesting to have a conversation about this movie with rather than just three people being like whatever you know because i do think there is stuff to wrestle with in this i found this movie so deeply frustrating immensely and i find it frustrating in a way that is very different from drive away dolls which i accept being its own thing even if it is kind of a silly trifle of a thing i think that is what is intending to do and i find that movie charming and entertained to watch and funny.

20:22It does not like go off the charts in any of those areas,

20:26David Sims:but I think it succeeds at its very modest intent. This is a movie that feels like a bad Coen Brothers movie. It is so much closer to what they do together in a way that is just lacking juice. And for the first like 75 % of it, I'm watching it and going like, okay, this is like, this is an all right approximation of a Coen Brothers movie. It's frustrating because I know they can do this better together, but whatever. And then the last 20 minutes are just like, they feel like a shrug and a panic. And it kind of reveals that the movie had no idea what it was actually doing up until that point. Yeah.

21:06And for me, I think it's so illuminating that like, they really just think they're making the long goodbye a lot. To the point where there's like lots and lots and lots of things pointing directly to it. There's like a cat on an orange counter and there's like a lady playing a piano in a bar, whatever. to the point where I went and watched Along Goodbye again because I'm like, oh, I have to... Now I feel even worse about the movie because I watched Along Goodbye recently. But that movie also similarly has a kind of ending that's like, the first time you watch it, you're like, oh, it's a little bit out of nowhere.

21:33And then you think about it, you're like, no, this is actually really...

21:35Griffin Newman:That was layered in. It was layered in and interesting. And it means something for this character that this happened this way, like he's sick of getting dumped on or whatever. Whereas this movie is just sort of like, and now it's over. Here is what is most frustrating about it to me is that I think Joel and Ethan together

21:56David Sims:are the kings of an ending that should be unsatisfying. Yes. Right? Of like constructing a story that feels like it's leading into one direction and then ending on a very messy, ambiguous note, letting plot threads completely dissolve, you know, or just like wander off screen, taking these hard left turns. these things that could be seen as frustrating and sort of flippant towards the audience, but I think are actually kind of like, that feel almost intellectually profound to me. Yeah. And this movie, my first time watching it, I'm like, why is this doing the same moves except it's just making me mad?

22:43David Sims:And I cannot find any rhyme or reason or meaning in what they're subverting. Yeah, like you, I've been listening to the series as you guys have been doing it. And you kept talking about like earlier in their career, the way people, critics, some critics would talk about their work where it's like just cruel or whatever. This movie feels like that, the movie those people think they're watching. Yeah. Where it's just kind of like tonally mean in a way that I don't quite understand. That's kind of a bad taste in my mouth.

23:11Griffin Newman:It is a surprisingly mean-spirited movie, given that it is initially kind of not. Yeah. Initially, you're like, yeah, this is a romp. I get it. It's like a very broad satire. And then at the end, you're like, huh. There's like two pieces in it. There's a weird edge to it. Yeah. Like, there's a scene where, was it Chris Evans? He's there. He finds out that one guy died, and they go out, and the guy's dead on the ground. And they do, again, like a horrible mutated version of my favorite Coen's thing, which is two people having a regular conversation while something insane is happening behind them or near them.

23:43Yes. Yes. And they're doing that, but it's not funny. It is like legitimately sad watching this guy weep over his dead son.

23:50David Sims:Yeah. And then there's the bit where the guy is like, oh, like, let me suck your dick. And he gets run over by the car. And I'm just like, okay, so you're just like showing a gay guy get murdered by a car?

23:59Griffin Newman:Like, I don't. You're right that there's. It's totally strange. When they work together, in many Coen movies, sort of these horrifying or shocking things happen, and you're like, very in it. It's very in the flow of the story. They manage the tone right. And that stuff does kind of feel like, you know, some guy who's not a Coen brother being like, I know what Coen brother movies are like, and yet he is a Coen brother. He's one of the two.

24:26David Sims:His whole time, he's been one of the two Coens. I said to you recently, David, that this movie kind of broke me. Yeah, you said that and I was like, this one? Right, and you were like, it can just be bad. You don't need to be fighting over this. Right, right, right, right.

24:39Griffin Newman:You don't need to be in turmoil.

24:40David Sims:I'm not at war with whether or not I like this movie. Right. I'm at war with like, why doesn't this work? And it's easy to just say it doesn't, but it is bizarre because it's doing things that are so similar to the things I value in Coen's films with, as we said, someone who is a Coen brother. He is. One of the two. On second viewing, I have some thoughts. It's checked. True. It's hard to make the two. But I think I think Coen movies are filled with these kinds of moments where you're just like, that's a story decision no other filmmaker would make. Right. Or that's on top of that, tonally, that scene is played in the opposite way of how I would imagine anyone else would approach it.

25:18David Sims:In a comedy, this scene is suddenly very violent and dark. In a drama, this scene is suddenly very funny and over the top. Right. These things that feel like they should bump on you. And with the Coens, I don't know what degree of it is just the trust they have like earned from us at this point. When a moment like that happens in one of their movies, I lean in and I go, huh, why are they doing this? I like give them the benefit of the doubt. And I feel like every other time it has paid off for me, whether at the conclusion of the movie where I suddenly go, I get it. This is what it was all about.

25:51David Sims:And this was the larger point they were making. This is why they were playing with narrative expectations and uncomfortable feelings. Or if it doesn't work for me the first time, I go back and watching a second time and I I go, now I get it. And like, this is one of the only ones, if not the only one, where I'm like, I truly kind of don't get what's going on here. I think this movie has ideas in it. There are things it is contending with that I find kind of interesting and sticky and certainly on the first viewing and even giving it a second watch this morning and being like, I'm really trying to meet it on its terms.

26:26David Sims:I was getting re-engaged in some of the things in the first half. and then just like completely pushed off the bike again the second half. Matty, what is your history with the Collins? Ooh, that's a good question. I think in college, in the early 2000s, the movie theater near my college was playing the Big Lebowski on a big screen. Another film. Another film that this film is maybe trying to be a little bit. And very indebted to the long goodbye as well. Yeah, I mean, this is like, that movie is like, what if Philip Marlowe is like an even stupider? And this movie is like, what if, I mean, this one, it was just like, what if Philip Marlowe was like a young lesbian and then they kind of they stopped and they kind of walked away yeah and hope that they came back in the room later in the script we'd done um and then I just fell in love with it and I had that stupid dvd that's like the bowling ball that untwists big time yeah and then I just got really into their movies from that point I went back and I just filled in all my gaps and I and I try I've seen everything I think first run since then.

27:22But I will say like, especially I want to say Inside Llewyn Davis and Hail Caesar and what was the one just before Llewyn Davis?

27:33Griffin Newman:True Florida. That's true, but more. Burn After Reading? No, Burn After Serious Man. Those three. Burn After Reading, I was the only person I knew that liked it when I saw the theaters. It was very gratifying to listen to the episode. Correct. Yep, absolutely. But those three in particular I watched them and I was kind of like, I don't get it. But like, and then I would just be thinking about them for months. And I'm like, I got to watch them again. And now those three are like my favorite three, I think. I mean, this is what I'm saying.

28:02David Sims:Like, that was my experience with Hail Caesar the first time. I have seen that movie now, I think, 10 times. Like, I love it so much. Like, same. And it completely makes sense to me now. And it was, that was a movie where the first time some of the wrong footing. I was like, I don't get what they're doing here. But when you go back to it, it rewards you. Yeah. It starts to make sense when you understand what the movie isn't doing and you stop holding those expectations against it that we're sort of are drilled into us by more conventional movies. Yeah. And, you know, and like for me, it's sort of like they are, you know, they're like it's not to sound so fucking basic, but like they're like the first like directors that weren't Tim Burton or Steven Spielberg that I was like, these are directors that I've heard of when I was younger.

28:44Griffin Newman:Yeah. They're one of the first directors that you have heard of if you're our age. Yeah, it was like them and like PTA were like, okay, here's directors that now when they have new movies, I will go see their movie.

28:53David Sims:I mean, I talk about it a lot, but like Tim Burton does sort of make sense as the ultimate starter kit auteur for people of our generation. Because it's so easy to understand what his hallmarks are, right? And then Spielberg is the guy you hear everyone in culture cite as shorthand for successful. He's on the Animaniacs. Right. And he's the only director on the Animaniacs. You know the name, you know the visual, you know the hits and whatever. And there's like Spielberg magic, but also as we've grown up, the definition of a Spielberg movie has changed a bunch. But the Coens are like those directors that you can sort of feel like you're doing the work yourself to understand what their thing is.

29:34David Sims:Yes. Rather than it being like served up to you completely already by pop culture. Right. And their movies are just so, to me, like just so magical. the way that they have so many moving parts that are unlike anybody else. And I will say the thing about maybe like, I was trying to get to the bottom of like, why did this movie leave such a weird taste on my mouth tonally? And I think it's because the other of their movies, it's two things. I think it's the attention to detail is missing. Yeah. And the dialogue isn't there. Whereas like other Coen movies, the dialogue is so special and sticky and compelling that when it's not there, when Chris Evans is saying best sex ever or whatever, it's like the dialogue wasn't there, the jokes weren't there.

30:20I wrote down one of the jokes. It was like driving me crazy. It's like in that scene where the kid dies, the Australian guy says, my body's a temple. You should see it with a shake weight. And I was like, that's a joke in a Coen Brothers movie? Yeah. Well, are you, oh, not Coen, sorry. A Coen Brother movie. A Coen Cook movie.

30:41Griffin Newman:But it is, I know what you mean, that it is, it's somewhat disturbing to consider, like, them knowing about Shakeweights. I don't want them to know about that. It just feels like a lazy, it's a lazier joke and it's way out of time. It is. But once again, like, Driveway Dolls. Maybe a slinket joke?

30:58David Sims:Feels like it's playing. Slinket joke. Is a sillier movie that feels like it's playing an entirely different game. And I'm not pinging it for not nailing, like, Raising Arizona-esque rat-a-tat dialogue. whereas this is getting so close that you become more aware of the gap between what it's trying to do and the literally 20 perfect versions of it you've seen one of these people do before. Yeah, the other thing they also do in a lot of their other movies is like paying homage to stuff in a way that is not tired, that is interesting, that is something to say and this one is just doing big time member that stuff.

31:35Well, even like the home invasion scene

31:38David Sims:of the young boy and his mother being attacked, right? I think is pretty well directed. And I'm sitting there and watching it. Visually, it's good. Right. And I was just like, okay, this actually like builds tension. It's using like negative space and silence in this very like classically Cohen's way. It remains specific to its character. It has like shocking moments of humor and of violence. And I felt a little electrified being like, okay so like Ethan Ethan's like showing up as a director right like he's like doing something here cinematically and the scene ends and I'm like I have seen 15 better versions of this scene done by that same guy you know and also like the way that the grandma gets killed is like another sort of like to me a taste level thing it just feels sort of like unnecessarily mean I don't know maybe I'm wrong there was this quote I brought up a lot throughout the series where Ethan has said, you know, when people ask me what a director does, I don't have an answer.

32:40David Sims:And over the years, I finally settled on one, which is tone management. And you do look at most of their films and you're like, that is kind of their ultimate magic, is the tone management of how can they hold these two things at the same time? And how can they put these scenes next to each other with such a wide kind of variance of human emotion and tone, right? And this is a movie where it just does not, coalesce and there are things in it if i'm like just watching it on a scene by scene basis where i'm like i'm kind of into this scene on its relative terms yeah and then i get to the next scene and i'm like i'm feeling whiplash but i'm gonna trust them that this is all gonna come together and then it has what what our friend sean fantasy on their recent house of dynamite episode referred to as a uh kicking the full paint can into the open street ending like the

33:31Griffin Newman:the person wanted to do that out of anger is what you're saying that it just feels like i don't know

33:35David Sims:fuck you whatever you know like like in house of dynamite has that too this ending where like the movie isn't totally working but i'm like following and some of the scenes are working and then you're like let's see if you can pull it together and then the ending is like i don't

33:48Griffin Newman:know fuck off the ending's like okay we're done and you're like oh no but what about the ending and they're like oh no these are the credits i said i said we're done these people made the movie Oh, okay. The tone is basically just like almost like a bomb falling. Kind of. Just like House of Dynamites. I heard on a podcast that we built House of Dynamites. I heard that too.

34:17David?

34:18David Sims:Yes? Got any big summer plans? Sleep. Your plan is to sleep for the whole summer? Rip Van Winkle style? Sounds good. I'll tell you what my plan is. What's that? To drink AG1 every morning. Of course. Well, you better or else you're going to crumble into dust. Any other plans I make would be foolish, foolhardy, if I weren't also planning to regulate my system with AG1. Because it doesn't matter if you're traveling, you got late nights, packed weekends, zero structure, any of those, keeping AG1 in your routine helps you stay consistent. That's a loaded word right there. Consistent. Yes. When everything else gets, and here's another loaded word, unpredictable.

34:59David Sims:Oh, I don't want that.

35:00Griffin Newman:And I know you don't either. Look, it's a daily health drink with a multivitamin. Yep. Pre and probiotics. Yep. Superfoods. Mm-hmm. And antioxidants.

35:10David Sims:It's an all-star lineup. One scoop, eight ounces of water. You just shake it up. There you go. That's it. You drink it. It takes 30 seconds. Now, the summer's where you want to get a little lax and you want to let yourself go and have fun. but just these 30 seconds a day help keep everything else in shape.

35:26Griffin Newman:This is kind of like an old-fashioned formula with like one to two ingredients, right?

35:31David Sims:No, no, no. Wait a second, what? David, I'm laughing so hard at your ignorance. This is a next-gen formula that delivers 75-plus ingredients backed by four clinical trials clinically shown to support gut health, fill common nutrient gaps, and improve key nutrient levels within three months. and I want to thank the announcer from Bar Rescue for jumping in for that one section.

35:55Griffin Newman:Very exciting. Look, late nights, long weekends, spontaneous plans, life happens. AG1's going to help you keep things consistent like Griffin's saying. Consistent. Give you high quality nutritional support every single day, no matter where you're starting your morning. I know you drink it every single day.

36:11David Sims:What's your favorite flavor right now? Right now, I'm actually really big into berry. I've been cycling through them and I've really been enjoying this berry phase. I will say this as well, David. Yes. You said it wherever you are. I'm about to go away for six weeks and you better believe I just ordered a whole box of travel packs so that I don't have to travel unarmed.

36:31Griffin Newman:I had no doubt. Visit drinkag1.com slash check to get your free morning person hat and free AG1 flavor sampler in your welcome kit with your first AG1 subscription. That's an$82 value. that's drinkag1.com slash check.

36:49David Sims:When I wear that hat it's going to be so ironic.

36:52Griffin Newman:Yes.

37:02David Sims:David! Yes? I know what your problem is. Uh oh. You're getting too much sleep. Ugh. Alright.

37:08Griffin Newman:I have trouble to sleep. What can I do?

37:11David Sims:Well, this is a lifelong issue, but now you also got a house full of handfuls. It makes the sleep you can get all the more precious, does it not? Of course. Of course. And, you know, what's the most important thing about sleep, Griffin? Most important thing about sleep? Sawing logs, counting sheep, hong shoo, hong shoo. I would say closing your eyes.

37:31Griffin Newman:Wearing a sleeping cap. These things are all very important, but no. It's the mattress atop which you sleep. And I have a Lisa mattress. Thanks to their wonderful partnership with us, I believe. I am sleeping on a king size Lisa mattress. I want to make sure I say exactly the brand I have. I believe it's the legend. Oh, I think that's what it's called. Yes. The hybrid chill. Maybe it's just the hybrid. I'm not sure if I got the chill. I got the chill because I'm a hot sleeper. I want to chill out. So the whole thing with Lisa is they've got all kinds of, you know, shapes and sizes for you. Right.

38:11Griffin Newman:You know, if you want a little more firm, you want a little more soft. It's the best hack to improve your sleep. It's to address what you're sleeping on. I, for a long time, was on a less good mattress that wasn't as big. I switched to a King. I switched to a very nice Lisa mattress. You're a tall man. You have a tall wife. It is one of the best single life decisions I ever made in terms of just improving my quality of life.

38:37David Sims:You genuinely seem so relaxed, even just recounting this.

38:40Griffin Newman:I love to be in my bed now. And like, of course, I always like bed. Bed's fun. Bed is fun. Yeah, great to be in bed. But now I'm like, hmm, how long till I can get my bed? In fact, we have to record an episode after this. And I'm like, so many hours from bed.

38:53David Sims:Bed is great. And, you know, we've covered some of the worst beds in movies on this podcast. Will Dormer falling asleep on a dock or a pile of garbage. Poor guy. Rooster Cogburn, Bed of Ropes. You don't want to be like those guys. Those guys didn't have happy ends. You want to be like a king, a legendary king sleeping on a Lisa. So, you know, just for some things you want to know.

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40:31Griffin Newman:Honeydome, what does everybody think of Margaret Qualley. Because I do think outside of this stuff we're discussing, tone management, Ethan, like, you know, like Cohen facsimile-y feeling or whatever.

40:45David Sims:And we should acknowledge that much like Drive Away Dolls, this is a movie that by all accounts was completely co-directed by Trisha Cooke. In addition to being written and produced but because of DGA guidelines much like the early part of their career. Trisha Cooke is very much

40:57Griffin Newman:the co-author of these two films. Yes, in every sense. We are very clear about that in the interviews, etc. Margaret Qualley who plays the character of Honey O'Donohue in this film a private dick in Bakersfield, California Great Bakersfield accent by the way She's the queen of accents What do we think of Margaret Qualley who is having, I would say a fairly sustained run at this point of being in movies Yeah I So that I think that noise that Maddie just made is right where I am with Margaret Qualis. I feel like sometimes I liked her in The Substance. Sure. Otherwise I'm sorry. I didn't like her in Driveway Dolls.

41:44A very strong performance. A strong. Like a real like you know.

41:47David Sims:That's a Marmite performance that I defend but I cannot argue with anyone who's like that drove me crazy. And I think the other thing is like okay it's like the noir thing. Uh huh. Right? I've been watching a lot of noirs lately in preparation for this because I was like, I got to get back in the zone. Right. And I was like, okay. Because a thing that happens all the time in noirs is shit just starts happening and then it stops happening and the movie's over. And maybe sometimes you're Philip Marlowe or whoever. You're Eddie Valiant. You're fucking the dude. Whatever. Yeah. Just sort of like, it's just kind of like, okay, I'm going to go home now and the movie's over.

42:22And they're kind of like, oh, another day in this crazy town. Exactly. Exactly, but those movies work because the people at the center you care about, or at least they're compelling or whatever. Sure. And in this movie, for one reason or another, I feel like Qualy is sort of like a charisma void.

42:35Griffin Newman:Well, let me, character feels a little cosplay to me. Like not Margaret doing cosplay, like Honey doing cosplay. Like right where I'm like, this girl's kind of putting on like a show. She's a Rolodex? Yeah. Yeah, like where I'm like, this is, what is this?

42:48David Sims:I want to circle back to her in a second because I think you're raising an interesting point here. And then not Arizona. Not raising that. No, you have not to date raised one of Nathan Arizona's children. Well, those aren't mine. Good. I'm giving them back. That was a test and you just passed. You should not be raising Nathan Arizona's children. They are not yours.

43:07Griffin Newman:Unless he asks. If he asks you to, then you can say yes.

43:11David Sims:But you shouldn't take the initiative.

43:13Griffin Newman:Yeah.

43:15David Sims:The Coens are obviously very indebted to that kind of noir filmmaking. heartbreaking and and also obviously like the the history of american noir in hard-boiled crime novels right yeah and even in their non-noir films i do think that is a thing they've really adopted across almost all of their work which is very often the lack of resolution a conventional resolution is the point for them right yeah things like uh uh burn after reading or no country or even serious man that feel like they're building and building and building and then completely veer off from the obvious blow up, the confrontation, the moment of closure, work for me because they're not just misdirects.

44:02David Sims:It's like that is the thematic point to them. Much in the way that noirs are about these people who are broken down and cynical, realizing how powerless they are to actually change anything, right? Yeah. The universe is cruel and more importantly, confusing. Exactly. And you can never really get your arms around it. Which is really, I think, like, the core issue of the Coen brothers' work. That is the thing that all of their movies are really contending with, of, like, is this meaningless or not? And if it's meaningless, then what's the point? What do we owe each other? What do we owe ourselves?

44:34David Sims:How do you find some sort of peace within that chaos and the lack of meaning? And so I think all their other endings work because the lack of resolution is the statement they are making. that life doesn't give you that kind of resolution.

44:49Griffin Newman:Right.

44:50David Sims:And this movie, in being a hard-boiled detective noir riff, True. should be even more well set up to get away with that kind of ending. Yeah. And yet it doesn't, and I do think, I don't think it's her performance that's the problem as much. I like her in this. I was pretty resistant to her when she started out. Interesting, sure. I just felt like, I don't know, I don't get what all the buzz is about her without having like a major issue. I wouldn't say I was allergic, but I was like, I don't know. Look, she's an incredibly attractive daughter of a movie star who is one of those people who was kind of like in magazines before she had credits where it felt like there was a slight degree of she's being shoved down her throats as the next big thing.

45:33David Sims:And I always think I get a little defensive about like, well, let me decide with these people. Sure, with the hot young things. And over time, I'm like, I like the choices she makes. I like the people she works with. I think she has a lot of like, I admire her bravery in terms of not feeling the need to define a thing she does and stick to it. Even if you look at these two Coen's movies and The Substance and all the other stuff she does, there's like a tremendous range of what she does. She doesn't feel protective of any kind of like brand as an actress, which I always admire. Yeah. You know, I liked her in was Kinds of Kindness.

46:08I liked her in Kinds of Kindness. Never saw Kinds of Kindness. She's in it very briefly, and I like her in it.

46:11David Sims:She has a quadruple role in that. She did. I thought she was great in poor things, even though that isn't a very large role. I know that's another one that people. I'm making the same noise as David.

46:21Griffin Newman:Yeah. I was pumped on. My whole thing with her was I first saw her in The Leftovers, didn't know who she was, and was like, the girl playing the daughter has such a look. And then Googled and was like, oh, it's Andy McDowell's daughter. Well, that'll give you a look. It'll give you a look. She's a looker. Yeah. But she's very good in The Leftovers. and so I was like, you know, check noted. Like, you know, and then when she was in the sort of the Nepo maelstrom that is Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, I was like, oh, that's, I guess, something Quentin's going for, right? Like, because there's so many daughters of, and sons of famous people in that movie.

46:59Griffin Newman:Right. It feels pointed. But he also, like, identifies, like, 10 of the next movies. He does. I mean, it is crazy that they're all hanging out at the fucking Spahn Ranch, right? Sidney Sweeney and all those people. Yeah. Whoever else is in that. I can't remember.

47:12David Sims:Who else is in it? Dakota Fanning. She's great. Yeah. Love her. That Leonardo DiCaprio guy is making some waves. He's in the movie. He's in the movie as well. But she's very good in it. She's good.

47:23Griffin Newman:Yes. And then I have just been like, she is one of the most like coin flip actors for me since then. Sure. Where I have like performances. Others have bumped on Blue Moon this year, which is a movie I adore. she has this like 15 minute monologue in it that I think she does a good job and it's sort of supposed to make me feel on edge but it it really exemplified the Margaret Cawley experience for me where I was just like do I like this like she's pretty and she she's holding the camera like but am I is this a good performance or am I just kind of like is it just kind of sticking out sure in a way that's me whatever I don't know I think hard to say I think her driveway dolls

48:05David Sims:performance as Sandy Cheeks, the astronaut squirrel from from the from the land, is very broad and in quotes and is sort of. Yeah, for sure. Consciously cosplaying. Right. She is not looking for any sort of like realism in that in this just because it was another film from the same team with the same lead actress. I was expecting her to do the same thing. And I think she is. I was God, I don't want to say I was surprised by how grounded she was but maybe just in comparison to the previous work that I was kind of buying her in this milieu of playing it relatively straight. I agree with you that there's an element to it feels like the character is doing an act and is kind of self-stylized as a hero of her own story, which is why you want the movie to like unwind her a little bit.

48:58David Sims:I think that is the ultimate failing is not in her performance and that they actually don't give her fucking anything to play other than like an improv scene genre exercise of private detective. Yeah. When I saw it on the big screen, I think I got a little fooled by the magic of the movies because I was like, this is, I actually think she's pretty good in it and I was shocked.

49:19Griffin Newman:Yeah. Because in general, I tend to dislike her in most things. And maybe I'm just holding a grudge because she plays Anne Reyn King and can't dance and Fosse Vernon drove me insane. Look, listen, listen, it's a capital offense where I'm from. But no, I and I watched it on the big screen. I was like, oh, she's actually pretty good. I'm like shocked. And then I watched it again the other day and I was like, I actually don't know. Am I seeing through this? Am I? Was I just like, wow, she's the size of a house. Sure.

49:46David Sims:But also how much of that is like you go into it knowing that there's no there there for the character, right? Yeah, maybe. I was just so hoping that something would coalesce more interesting about the movie that wasn't happening that I just found myself so frustrated that maybe I took it out that way. I don't know. I was looking at your August 18th vlog of this movie, seeing it at Momi, the moment when I pinged David and said, Maddie seems to half like this. We should have her on the show. I don't know if we're going to find anyone more positive than this.

50:15Griffin Newman:We even talked about having you on the show.

50:16David Sims:And you said, really loved the first half of this. Everyone was good. Looks very good, but feels a lot less than some of its parts. it's honey just okay, honey fine. Yeah. And then I messaged you and you said you were disappointed it wasn't worse because you had better letterbox jokes lined up that you then didn't get to use. That's correct. Remember any of those? I think it was like honey won't, honey shouldn't, things of this nature. Honey shant. Honey shant. My favorite was honey don't dot dot dot see it.

50:50Griffin Newman:Yeah, you would, yeah. Honey third act problems. Honey third act problems. Yeah. I think that's a solid one. Yeah. Yeah. It would be funny if Honey's like, I've solved the mystery. There's third act problems.

51:02David Sims:But I think watching it the first time, you're like... Sorry. I was doing a magnifying glass. This is going somewhere, and clearly at some point this character will deepen. Sure. Beyond just kind of an affectation. Yeah. Here's what I think this movie is actually sort of trying to be about. Okay. Vaginas. No, what I actually sort of think it's trying to be about. Boobs. The longer boob. Now you sound like David.

51:30Griffin Newman:It'd be funny if we were like, the big debate, vagina versus boobs. No, no. Okay, okay. What's it about? What's it about?

51:35David Sims:I think it's actually trying to be about examining the ways in which men hold power over women. If you look at the prism of everything happening around her in this movie, right? It is sort of like, here is someone who is a private investigator. She works for no one. Sure. She's a private dick. But she doesn't have one. But she doesn't have one.

51:58Griffin Newman:I don't understand this. But she's dealing with... A lady doing detective? Sorry, go ahead. A lady doing detective. A lady doing detective.

52:05David Sims:She's dealing with the law, you know? She's dealing with her clients. She's dealing with the criminal element. She is dealing with organized religion. you know, or perhaps cults that are sort of framing themselves as organized religion to become consolidations of money and power and sex and cults of personality. And the relationship with the father, which is the point where I'm watching it the first time, and I'm like, okay, is this going somewhere? Is there thematically something here in this sort of like someone who has worked so hard to define herself not in relationship to any man? Not only because that is not how she sexually identifies, but also because she doesn't want to be part of these systems, right?

52:49David Sims:And like the early stuff with her sister, who is a Kristen Connelly, who's an actress I like a lot.

52:55Griffin Newman:Love that actor.

52:56David Sims:And I like that scene, the two of them on the porch together, where it feels like there's actually some real emotion here. Like, where is this going? Her sister who is... The answer is kind of nowhere. Nowhere. She's in the house. Her sister has many children. Yeah. There's like kind of no solid male figure in sight. She's pregnant yet again and makes a crack about her. Her siblings can't even, her children can't even remember how many siblings they have right now. They're not excited for the new baby. And her oldest child is played by Talia Ryder, who's in her rebellious teen phase, is dating a bad guy.

53:27Right, right.

53:27Griffin Newman:An obvious sort of future abusive husband if things go that way or whatever.

53:32David Sims:Right, it's like a cycle is continuing. You'll later find out that Honey's father, who's trying to make amends, was also abusive. that they've both distanced themselves from him and that the daughter's lashing out, that she feels like her mother's critiquing her too much and warning her about how badly things are going to turn out when she's looking for support. She's getting anger, you know? And how do women end up giving power over to men? Which is the biggest fucking mess of this movie is, just getting into spoilers, Aubrey Plaza revealing herself to be like an 80s movie slasher villain who has gone insane victim-blaming women who are victims of abuse because she thinks it's about women being weak enough that they let themselves be abused.

54:16Yeah. So I'm going to solve that by kidnapping random teenagers and torturing them to death?

54:22David Sims:That my father abused me. Yeah. And I now resent other people who don't know how to correct that situation because she murdered her father to get out of it or he died in the penalty. I can't remember. In the very spot you're standing, honey. What's the problem there? I would say it's not played very well.

54:42Griffin Newman:So that was what I was about to say. I would say that is a twist that would be tough to get across maybe anyway, because it feels a little out of nowhere and a little convenient, yada, yada, yada. I also think Plaza cannot do it. And that's another actor that I make a noise about when I'm like, do I like this actor?

55:00David Sims:She is way more that for me. and you had told me like watching this like I'm questioning if she can act at all. So I went in watching it and until the final scene I was like I actually like her more in this than most things. I liked her a lot in the rest of the movie because she's really good at that. She's good at playing horny. Good at playing horny. Good at playing flirty.

55:19Griffin Newman:Good at playing kind of temptress. Mean temptress thingy. She works so well until the last scene the whole time. Like wow Aubrey put her in the center of the movie. It's almost like they didn't tell her the twist until like like the minute they were rolling in there oh and by the way you've been the murderer the whole time

55:34David Sims:by the way i'm like i'm sympathetic to her where i watch that final sequence and i'm like this feels like an actor being Like, well, I'm going to try my best. This is a tough fucking assignment they gave me. And I'm going to figure out a way and see if I have any in to playing it in a way that is believable.

55:53Griffin Newman:My thing with Plaza had always been, I had struggled with some of, like, I didn't like her very much in Legion, but I didn't like that show much or whatever. Like, I didn't like Ingrid Goes West as much as some people did. But then I did like Emily the Criminal, which was a bit of an underseen little gem. and like there were certain things. I enjoy her in Megalopolis. I was going to say, she gets what movie she's in.

56:15David Sims:I love her in Megalopolis. More than any other actor in the cast. She knows exactly what movie she's in.

56:19Griffin Newman:Sometimes it hits and then sometimes I'm like, well, this didn't work. And this was kind of a, was hitting and doesn't work all in one movie. It's all of it. Ben, do you have a take here? I feel like, no, no, okay. I just kind of have a crush on her. Oh, interesting. Wait, wait, Aubrey Plaza. Here, I'm sort of always in the bag for her. Wait, wait, wait. Ben, Ben, Ben, Ben, Ben. You like someone who has a kind of could-be-mean-to-me vibe? I don't understand this. This is not your track record remotely. There's just something about her cold cruelty that just, for whatever reason, sparks something in me.

56:52Griffin Newman:Does not reflect your wife. No. No, very much so. An earlier era. Yes. Kind of one of the million reasons we love your wife. Sort of a dating history, yes, that conjures up for me. A lot of wows platinum in the past. Yes. More Emily's The Criminals. I would say that WoW's Platinum. Okay. Because listen, WoW Platinum has got some pretty nefarious motives. Wow Platinum is up to no good. Yeah. Do you know what's crazy? What's up?

57:19David Sims:So her character's name is WoW Platinum, right? That's correct.

57:21Griffin Newman:That's so true.

57:22David Sims:And WoW is one of the words that is said most often on the Doughboys podcast. And the highest honor they can bestow upon anything is the Platinum Play Club. That's so true. And so I was watching this movie and wondering, does Francis Ford Coppola listen to the Doughboys podcast, which does make sense because they're a couple of goofballs.

57:40Griffin Newman:Thank you for saying that. And of course, that's something that Nick Weiger said about 400 times last year.

57:44David Sims:No, I think I'm the first one to say that on any podcast. Have any of you seen Megadoc? No, not yet. I need to because I am very invested in Megadoc. A movie I liked. It rules. It's great as a document. It's great as...

57:58Griffin Newman:Maddie, we're both interested in municipal politics and wacko movies made by mad men.

58:03David Sims:Yeah, look. It's got both things going on, baby. Hey, that's a really good point. I'm in the same boat as the two of you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that movie is fascinating as like a supplemental document to understanding Megalopolis, but it's also like actually a good movie in its own right. Well, I understood it perfectly. No problems. Aubrey Plaza comes out of that movie. Coherent film. A to B to C. Looking the best. She does. She's one of the top like... Out of Megadoc, I'm saying, make sure she looks even better. I thought you meant maybe in the wig she looks the best. She does. She is looking pretty good.

58:33David Sims:But you watch that and like both the behind the scenes footage of her interacting on set and in rehearsals and whatever. They show all the like fucking weird Francis Ford Coppola acting exercise improv stuff. Like all this footage you haven't seen of her performing in character, that's all great. And you're watching raw takes, but also all of her interviews, she comes off funny and smart and like the most transparent about everything that was happening in the ecosystem of that movie. So I watched that and I'm like, she does kind of get it undeniably and also she is someone who versus a lot of her like contemporaries has really been committed to movies yeah i i i completely agree with that

59:17Griffin Newman:she she tries stuff she does interesting projects she yeah you're absolutely and honestly same with margot qualley yeah i mean it's like what i'm giving people respect for working but i like that

59:28David Sims:they're working like but i think i'll reply if i can even go a step further in a way that i just like she gets brownie points for me forever for this like does a lot of low budget stuff sure yeah with like first or second time filmmakers where it feels like she's actually producing it getting it off the ground calling her friends in interested in taking like a fifth supporting part in something you know just to work with interesting people and has done a season of White Lotus and did Legion or whatever, but doesn't just feel like she's doing the fucking streaming prestige cash-in. She also did Agatha all along.

1:00:01David Sims:You're right. She's done a couple, but she's like... Oh, was it? All the time? Agatha all along, in my opinion, the

1:00:08Griffin Newman:best MCU thing since fucking Avengers Endgame or whatever.

1:00:12David Sims:She is largely not doing big payday streaming bullshit that doesn't exist, which almost all of the people from her generation got caught up doing. Wow. Now, speaking of, Chris Evans is in this movie. It represents Chris Evans try year 2025 where he decided to try giving a shit again he got off his ass a little bit i would

1:00:32Griffin Newman:say he's been somewhat forthcoming like i'm aware that i made a bunch of dog shit after knives out right like he's sort of said it out loud right god like because his post we talked about it but the sort of like gray man ghosted pain hustlers red one jesus christ it's really bad sorry is Is there a movie called Pain Hustlers? Are you saying two different movies? Pain Hustlers is a Netflix film. I mean, honestly, that's the most... That's the best. Right, arty thing he did. It's like a biopic about opioid hustlers. It was Emily Blunt and Chris Evans.

1:01:07David Sims:It was, you know, it came and went. From 2019, when he has Knives Out and Endgame, and you're like, here we go, this guy's unlocked. He's freed from Marvel. Right. And he just killed it in a movie playing a real person. Yeah, he's off the leash. Here we go. and then for the next six years or the, yes, yes, for the next five years. Sure. Because 2025 is when he gives a shit again. Yeah. For the next five years, he only does streaming bullshit and the only two movies he is in that go to theaters are Lightyear, in which he played the real Buzz Lightyear. Well, in the universe of the toy. The toy.

1:01:42David Sims:The man that the toy is based on. That's right.

1:01:43Griffin Newman:It's based on a film that is, of course, disgusting and frazzled Snoop Dogg with its portrayal of lesbianism. It's definitely. for coming back to Honeydow. How is he supposed to explain this? He should never watch Honeydow. He seemed to more be saying that he possibly is too stoned to literally explain homosexual relationships. Yeah. And that Lightyear was simply bothering him because it was prompting that. He wasn't even like, get this woke off my screen. He was like, I am too lazy to explain anything.

1:02:13David Sims:If you have ever taken a small child to see a movie, something I know you now do.

1:02:17Griffin Newman:I sure have, yeah. And my child has unfortunately seen Lightyear like seven or eight times. Really? I told you, I've said this on this podcast before, she calls it Grumpy Buzz. She doesn't even like it that much, but occasionally she's like, I want to watch Grumpy Buzz. I don't know if you told me this before. I forgot this. I've seen that movie a lot. I mean, she definitely likes socks more than most of the movie because that's at least a cat that's cute.

1:02:40David Sims:Calling it Grumpy Buzz kind of underlines the core problem of that movie's existence.

1:02:44Griffin Newman:She really zeroed in on what the movie is giving you. It's Buzz, but she's cunt. of grumpy. Have you seen Lightyear? Can you check that one out? Hey, I just have a real quick question for you. Why would I have seen Lightyear? Great question. Why do you experience the eventuality of Lightyear?

1:03:02David Sims:I've said this before in the pod, but I was dating a woman and at the time that Lightyear came out and I went to go see it by myself and she found the stub in my pocket and I think it's not unrelated that I was dumped within

1:03:18Griffin Newman:Like two condoms in your pocket, one used. She's like, what is this? What the fuck is this?

1:03:23David Sims:I was just checking out Grumpy Buzz. She was like, my ear stub? Did you take your little cousin? I was like, no, I had time after record. I went to go see it by myself. I mean, I'll watch basically anything. I'll also watch anything animated, basically. Just saying, my ass back right. Yeah, I was going to say.

1:03:36Griffin Newman:It kind of looks all right. It looks good. It's a pretty expensive animated film. Yeah, Pixar kind of lost me is the thing. I think they've kind of lost me. It got lost. Pixar's not as good as it used to be. The weird thing about Lightyear, there are many weird things about it, obviously, but is that it is, the plot is basically like Diet Interstellar. It's got like this complicated, like time dilation plot. What? Exactly what I was going to say.

1:04:00David Sims:You take a small child to see any movie, they will ask you a question every 15 seconds about what's going on on screen. At a certain age, yes. So first of all, Snoop Dogg's point is invalidated because it's like, what? I don't want to have to explain this. You also have to explain like relativity. This is a movie that has such complicated concepts in it. It does. Does anybody fold a piece of paper and put a pencil through it? It doesn't do that. It's been a science fiction movie since the dawn of time. This is what's so weird is that Interstellar, a movie for grownups, does that. And everyone's like, oh, fucking Christopher Nolan.

1:04:30David Sims:Thanks for the explanation. Treating us like babies. And then Lightyear's like, fine, we got it. You want to be treated like grownups. And doesn't take the time to explain it to children.

1:04:38Griffin Newman:Let me just say. I'm going to tangent off this tangent. because we don't need to discuss Lightyear that much anyway.

1:04:44David Sims:Juicy fingers. How are you supposed to explain juicy fingers to your children? Sorry? The worst concept in Lightyear is that in their alternate reality or their future, their far-off future, they eat inverted sandwiches where the meat is on the outside and the bread's in the middle. And Buzz said, why would you do that? And they go, so you get juicy fingers. That's the best part. When the meat juices get on your fingers and you have to lick them off.

1:05:07Griffin Newman:Sounds like the kind of sex joke that would be in Honey Don't.

1:05:09David Sims:Explain that shit to your grandchildren.

1:05:11Griffin Newman:and Snoop. I haven't explained anything that's happening in Lightyear to my child who seems to have forgotten that movie exists recently which is good. Juicy Fingers. I had a pivot off of Lightyear. Juicy Fingers really threw me and I forget what it was. Relativity, not explaining, pencil through the paper. David Giasi or Giasi, I'm not sure how you say it. Romley. Astronaut Romley. Who plays Romley in Interstellar is now in Netflix's The Diplomat, a show that I watch and enjoy. Is that the Cary Russell show? That's the Cary Russell show where there's a twist every fucking five minutes and it rocks and it's very silly and frothy.

1:05:44It makes me look up from doing the dishes. Exactly.

1:05:46Griffin Newman:And David Gyasi is in it playing a hot British foreign secretary and it's just always a pleasure to see that guy. He's so fucking good looking. He's also a good actor. Great in Cloud Atlas? Yes, he is. Oh, that guy. Yeah, he rules. He's just got like a really, really great like drawl, great way of talking, a great furrowed brat. Like he's great. He's great.

1:06:06David Sims:The only other movie that Chris Evans was in that went to theaters was, of course, Free Guy, where he makes a three-second cameo seemingly filmed on an iPhone playing himself.

1:06:17Griffin Newman:He did do that. He is, Red One, I believe, did go to theaters. You are, you are tragically correct. I mean, by technicality. I did see Gray Man in theaters, but that was at Four Wall. But Red One got like a real release, I guess. It did,

1:06:31David Sims:but it still is streaming bullshit. Did he reprise his role as Lucas Lee on the Scott Pilgrim show? He did. He did. Which, that performance in that movie is so fucking good. He's so good.

1:06:39Griffin Newman:He's awesome in that movie. Yeah, yeah. Chris Evans is a good and charming actor who's been working on our screens

1:06:45David Sims:for more than 20 years at this point. I have always been a big defender. Yeah. And I think you look at stuff like Lucas Lee, like in another teen movie, where you're like, this guy does get it. Yeah. Like, he is able to poke fun at himself in a way that shows that he doesn't know. He can't contend that he doesn't know what good material is. No, he's got taste. Because he's kind of in on the joke and he's worked with good filmmakers before.

1:07:09Griffin Newman:I don't like materialists, but I don't think he's bad in it. I think he's quite good. He's sort of doing his best. I like him a lot in it.

1:07:20David Sims:That's a movie I obviously defend. But I also think that movie has a core issue with his performance that I think this movie carries as well. I have not seen the third film in his Tri-Gear trilogy is the Kent Jones film, Late Fame.

1:07:36Griffin Newman:Yeah, well, I think that hasn't actually, you know, that got like a festival. Yes, it's played at festivals. You have not seen it yet.

1:07:42David Sims:No, I didn't see it. I'd like to see it. I don't know what he has lined up outside of seemingly returning to the Marvel Cinematic Universe. No, what? They got their hooks back in him?

1:07:52Griffin Newman:He's very much like, as his like biceps and pecs are bulging out of his like t-shirt on the red carpet, he's like, I don't think I'm going to be in that one. And he's like, God, I fucking Captain American shield. I mean, maybe if they call me briefly, I might show up. He's wearing the mask. They've tattooed on his face. He shaved his head. He's in the Romain Gavris film Sacrifice, which was at TIFF, which with Anya Taylor-Joy. I don't know much about it. So he has two festival movies that haven't premiered yet, right? Yeah. Chris Evans, do we like him in this movie? The thing about him in this movie in which he plays a sort of, as you say, religious cult leader, the televangelist-y sort of like thing.

1:08:30David Sims:But the movie introduces you to him misbehaving before you even see him at the pulpit. It is front loaded with. He's naked a lot of the movie. You just gave me a look that I cannot describe why you said that. He's got like a fucking strip mall church that is really a front for a drug operation where they're funneling money from the friends. The four-way church or something? It's the four-way. Oh, God. Go ahead. Finish your thought and then I have a thought. He also loves to fuck and he fucks everybody and it's basically a sex call. And he makes all the female prisoners wear like chain bikinis under their robes.

1:09:05Griffin Newman:And he directs them during sex. Doesn't this all feel very like 80s, 90s kind of humor about like televangelists and TV priests? Very tired. And you're like that thing of like, what you don't know is like religious people can be hypocrites. And I'm like, yeah, we know that. That is done and dusted.

1:09:24David Sims:That is old news. JJ did not do a dossier for this. episode he is he's fired fired exactly but uh we told him not to do it but it was reverse

1:09:32Griffin Newman:psychology we wanted him to do it yeah and he failed the test exactly i was hoping to see the

1:09:36David Sims:giant book get opened up but i guess yeah no i'm sorry it's on the shelf this week uh but i there were changes made to this versus the driveway doll script remaining untouched and kept as a period piece right this was a script that they wrote that she wrote in at an earlier point?

1:09:54Griffin Newman:I believe all of these, including fucking, you know, Beaver Parade or whatever the fuck is. Go Beavers doesn't have a script. I have to remind you. Go Beavers! Stop! They told me personally it's not written. It's an idea. There may be a, like, a treatment or sketch out there somewhere, right? Like, it wasn't just that someone was like, Go Beavers, and they were like, put a pin in that! They said that they had the ideas down, but they haven't cracked it yet. And I was like, what are you possibly going to crack?

1:10:15David Sims:That's my only question is, was this written in full in, like, 2002 and then dusted off and, like, COVID reference, you know, up to I have a the COVID reference they talked about it specifically at the top box because it bothered me because that it's again attention to detail shit that was driving me insane where it's like again in like in driveway dolls my lovely wife who was a food writer pointed this out to me they order a rose egg in the 90s they would have ordered a blush wine that's a good call and that's the sort of mistake that the brothers together did not make and then it's like I don't give that much of a shit but it does like whatever and then

1:10:49Griffin Newman:your wife is obviously one of the best food writers in America she's America's best food writer in my opinion for noticing yes um and then in uh in this movie the covid thing is like billy eichner if he's that guy that they say he is which is like a weird joke that i don't care

1:11:04David Sims:about and it's not very good his character is introduced as a client who is uh methodically uh wiping off the chair in her office before he sits in it and he turns to her and goes like can't be too careful it's still everywhere and he's like if he was actually that kind of like very conscious person about COVID, he would be wearing a mask.

1:11:24Griffin Newman:You're right that it is bizarre and lazy. Exactly. And the joke is in there, they said, because they wanted people to know that it was not a period piece off the bat. Okay. It is there to serve a function, not to actually be funny. There are other ways you can. Nope, there's no other way, actually. You watch it with an iPhone all the time. Ah! Someone look at a calendar. calendar i'm always looking at calendars paper calendar i'm always when i greet my friends i'm always saying the dates i'm always like and as we all know it's 2025 how's your november 4th going

1:11:57David Sims:you are right david that watching this film you're like this does feel like a script that has been sitting on a dusty shelf for 25 years and that you're like yeah we've kind of moved past this surface level takedown of do you know that some christians are actually bad again i'm not

1:12:14Griffin Newman:saying that Christians are good or that Christians are above reproach in cinematic satire. I'm more just kind of like, did you know priests can be horny and nefarious? Doesn't feel shocking. And this film really seems to think that I am going to be like, I cannot believe that Chris Evans is fucking ladies in this movie.

1:12:37David Sims:75 % of his screen time is probably in that bed fucking somebody, right? Or nude arguing with somebody.

1:12:43Griffin Newman:He is often in the buff or in tighty-whities of some sort.

1:12:47David Sims:Here's my core complaint, and I buy it more for this character than Materialist, where he is playing a struggling theater actor with integrity who doesn't want to sell out. Right. I think Chris Evans has gotten too obsessed with the self-manicuring. I'm sure he's spending a million dollars on physical upkeep a day, right? He looks incredible. That feels like it's not profitable. He's spending a million a day. almost getting a lot of money 52 million he's almost getting to a point where i'm just like it looks 65 million it looks what it looks like his beard is being lined up in between words i think his beard is a little too uh perfectly cropped and i feel this way about everything the last two years of it every time he shows up i'm just like you look too good now it's not a genetic thing the hair is too well maintained your muscles are too perfect your chest is too shaved the beard lines are too clean you know whatever fucking dermatologist like regiment you have on or whatever work i'm just like you are starting to not feel like a real person it perhaps works for captain america but yet i would argue part of what was so successful about him as captain america is he somehow made that guy feel a little earthbound and now he plays him so corny in a way that's like whatever when the dumb shit when he's like oh here's the movie of the list of movies i I got to watch.

1:14:07It feels like, oh, like, here's like a human being. He's like starting to look like an anime hunk.

1:14:11David Sims:And I'm truly just like, spend 15 minutes less in the makeup chair. Like, if you're making an indie, just like, let it grow out a little bit. Yeah. Cool it a little bit. I get that this guy is vain and self-obsessed and would be this. Well, it makes more sense. In Materialist, it bugged me more.

1:14:30Griffin Newman:In Materialist, it bugged me. In this, I'm just like. But in Materialist, it doesn't matter because it just went handheld when you were in his apartment. and now I know he's poor.

1:14:38David Sims:Sorry, that's my critique. One of my many critiques. It's a good movie. But I'm just like, this, Chris Evans, the actor, has access to treatments that this character does not have. And a strip mall. Yeah, and Bakersfield. Yeah, that's fair. I'll believe that he spends two hours in the mirror every day.

1:14:55Griffin Newman:But I think what you're doing is nitpicking Honey, Don't. And you did it too and I've done it already as well. We've all done it. And it's like, We Driveway Dolls tries this and this movie tries this too, this kind of like, fucking, this is a chill movie, man, this is a ramshackle little delight. Like, you know, we just threw this together. Stop being, taking this so seriously. And in Drive Away Dolls, I kind of roll with it. In this one, I don't so much, partly because, as Maddie pointed out, there's a lot of like grisly kind of lurid stuff that, you know, I'm bouncing up against much like harder.

1:15:32Griffin Newman:And so, I don't know.

1:15:34David Sims:Well, Because you want there to be a point to it. Every other time the Coins have done this, you're like, it is serving ultimately thematic concerns. Yeah, it felt a little bit like watching those, like, in the early 2000s, there were a lot of those, like, pitch black comedies. The post-Tarantino kind of crime murder comedy.

1:15:52Griffin Newman:We all spent a night at McCool. That's correct. And the whole time, those movies are always going, like, staring at you down the barrel of the camera, being like, and we're having fun, right? You're having fun? It's wacky and fun. What are you, offended? I mean, honestly. Are you bad at what happened to Smoochie? And I'm like, I'm. Poor Smoochie. Death has happened to him. Well. Death is being threatened. This movie's giving death to Smoochie a little bit to me. Where it's like. A movie that Griffin defends. A movie that I liked a lot when I saw it when I was. What year did that come out? 2002.

1:16:222002. And Maddie, I was right there with you. I was 17. So I loved it. I think we're very similar ages.

1:16:26Griffin Newman:And I was also. I was like, this is twisted. This is dark. It's twisted. I get that. That's. That's. transgressive and I'm supposed to be like, good.

1:16:37David Sims:Good transgressive. I rewatched it recently. I also hate society. I rewatched it recently. I still like it. There is no question that the best time to watch Death to Smoochie is when you are a teenager. It will never hit as hard as the ages from 13 to 18. Yeah. But like there's like, am I wrong here? It's got like, I was trying to think of more examples of funitis, but like this is a thing that sometimes movies do and like I think driveway dolls also did it to some extent, which is just like, it's fun. But we put it up against this with Lady Killers, which is like another murder comic. Which I've not seen because I'm afraid of it.

1:17:11David Sims:But is a movie that very much like maintains the like, this is fun energy. Yeah. And like, Honey, don't, it like has these moments of like her talking to her sister, you know? Yeah. Like the runner having his mother attacked. Like these things where you're like, it's slowing down. It's like investing in character. It's not trying to maintain this like, come on, don't take any of it seriously thing, which makes you want to believe it is building up to some ultimate point.

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1:18:41David Sims:The end of this movie, just to like skip ahead, right? The basic setup of this movie is. Honey.

1:18:48Griffin Newman:I mean, the premise is that Honey gets a fucking case. People are dying. Girls are getting killed. What's going on?

1:18:54David Sims:A woman who had hired her shows up dead in a car crash.

1:18:57Griffin Newman:It's a classic fucking Raymond Chandler-y kind of setup. Yes. It's like she, you know, like it's the case she does. She should stop sniffing around, but it's too intriguing. Right.

1:19:06David Sims:Charlie Day is a local cop who has a big crush on her. Very nuanced performance from Mr. Day. The thing is about, I've been over 20 years of watching Mr. Day on my screen, both large and small. Same. I've inculcated to his fucking shit. Everybody enjoys it. And every time he's on screen, I'm having a ball. He makes, a problem I have with this movie is that most of the jokes are not very funny. he has the one thing that made me laugh so hard in the last scene of the film where he says sex hookers yeah it made me laugh and i was like you know what against my better judgment i laughed at that joke and you know what i'm laughing so thank you i think jay aka luigi aka luigi is

1:19:41Griffin Newman:is a funny guy and i i'm i'm pretty much always rooting for him despite the fact that he is insanely rich and i do not need to refer he's fine he does not need my help if you are quiet for even a moment, he'll die. If you listen to me all right now, believe in Charlie Day, please clap. I'm not trying to talk shit, but I do think he seems like the most sort of level and chill of the sunny guys. Yeah. Oh, by a country mile. The other two seem like they've got stuff. You know, they're hardworking guys. They make their show. Well, Glenn Howard is from Waterloo where the vampires hang out. And he fucking crushed that shit.

1:20:18Griffin Newman:I loved it. And Rob Mack, I believe. Stop!

1:20:22David Sims:Don't say any more! Heartbreaks on that name. Do you know about this, Ben? No, I also don't know about this.

1:20:30Griffin Newman:Rob McElhaney. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Oh, jeez. Not to deadname him. I'm sorry.

1:20:34David Sims:Not to deadname him, but he was born Rob McElhaney, and for the 25 years of his career, that is the name he has gone by.

1:20:41Griffin Newman:He's credited that way on many episodes of It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, his hit show.

1:20:46David Sims:A show he not only stars in, but he created. And owns, yes. Right. He becomes best friends with Ryan Reynolds. The funniest man in the world. You might have heard this, but they own a soccer team. He's married to that girl from Age of Adeline, right? Yes. Sorry. Yeah, I heard about the soccer team. And it does feel like he's become somewhat infected by the mogul brain of Ryan Reynolds. A little bit. And wanting to be like Ryan Reynolds.

1:21:09Griffin Newman:Be kind of like a sort of personality brand in a way that Ryan Reynolds also is. He's doing like a more successful run of what Ashton Kutcher was attempting 15 years ago. Yes. Yes. Yes. and remember that when he was the most followed person on twitter yes i do and he was like

1:21:23David Sims:starting tech companies or whatever yeah it's also funny that he was like the person who basically minted twitter and then he had one bad tweet that was like oh no they fired joe pa what happened do you mean actually everything up yeah do you remember this i do i do not remember

1:21:39Griffin Newman:that he was uh going to the mat for paterno because he didn't know yet about the sandusky

1:21:44David Sims:He saw the headline Joe Paterno out and he didn't read the rest of the story and people attacked him in the comments and he went, got it. I will never tweet again. He actually did it right where the first time Twitter bit him, he was like, never mind. Log out. OK. But anyway. That's really good advice. Over the summer, Rob McElhaney, I think it's like People Magazine or someone breaks that he has legally filed a name change petition to be Rob Mac, period. Rob Mac. And people are like, what the fuck is going on? And then he posts like a 15 minute video.

1:22:22Griffin Newman:A real, this is the real Ryan Reynolds energy. This video where he's, I don't know if it's actually. Maybe it's five. But it's one of those like, hey. It felt like an hour. You know, I have Irish ancestors and like it's been spelt all kinds of ways and it's confusing and no one knows how to pronounce. Like, right.

1:22:38David Sims:That's kind of his argument. His argument is I now do a lot of global business and people in other cultures have a difficult time pronouncing my name. And I have lost hours of my life where I could be making money correcting people on my name. That's actually the jokey kind of explanation he gives is like if you add up every time I've been in a meeting with someone. and have had to say it's pronounced Mechelhenny. Right. Over years, that is 500 hours that I could have been meeting with VCs.

1:23:10Griffin Newman:Yeah. As someone with an actually hard to pronounce last name. Lubchansky. It's Lubchansky. Lubchansky, sorry. You know what? Point proven. I don't care. I'm not changing my name to Matty Lubb. Exactly. Well, I was going to say, my culture is not your costume, Rob Mack.

1:23:25David Sims:But his argument of time is money. That's crazy. And I'm missing out on deals. Again. It's just that video that - Caitlin Olsen, his wife, who he has multiple children with, is like, our children have your name and you didn't talk to us about this.

1:23:38Griffin Newman:Sounds like a normal relationship with things.

1:23:39David Sims:Your name is Rob Mack and their name is Matt Clenney. So crazy. It sounds like the video of that one entrepreneur guy that's like, my days are cut into six hour chunks. Yes. This is what it's like. I love that guy. I love that guy. You've seen that video? Where he like takes baths and bottle brawn or whatever. By three weeks from now, I've killed you. I've eaten you. Right. It's incredible. The video has the energy of like, I inject my son's blood into my penis to stay young. Yeah, exactly. Like these insane fucking like biohacking, like grind set tech bro shit. He doesn't have to do the legal change.

1:24:10Griffin Newman:He can just tell people to call him Rob Mac. Nobody has to do anything. Honestly, the answer to most things of late is you didn't, you don't have to do this. Just call me Rob. This is, um, this is, this is the, the, you know, the worldwide phenomenon of everyone is 12 now. I believe this is what they call it on of, why can't I just be 12? Why can't I just be 12? But anyway, and again, I want to be clear. Rob Mac has made things that amuse me. I enjoyed Mythic Quest. I haven't watched the latest season. I feel like everyone fell off with Mythic Quest. But there was a time when I enjoyed Mythic Quest.

1:24:44Griffin Newman:I'm sure Wrexham FC is doing fine. I haven't checked the standards. You're right, though. That Charlie Day seems to be very at peace with himself.

1:24:51David Sims:He's the chillest.

1:24:52Griffin Newman:He just made his passion project, and everyone was like, eh. And he was like, anyway. Yeah, I'll show up and be, I'll be Charlie Day for five minutes in your film. This feels like the kind of thing of like, again, if you'd gotten the call from E. Tan Cohen and he was like, hey, do you want to do some bullshit in my bad movie, Honey, Don't? You would have been like, absolutely. That's what he said. I got to work with the Coen brother.

1:25:11David Sims:I mean, his performance, Chris Evans' performance, and Aubrey Plaza's performance in particular have the energy of, I've always wanted to be in a Coen's movie.

1:25:23Griffin Newman:I've always wanted to be in a Coen brother's movie and I read this script two seconds ago.

1:25:26David Sims:Right. I would say it's those two things. And I'm worried that this is the closest I'll ever get. I could turn this down. I gotta take my chance. Well, what if they never get back together again? And like, you're playing a sleazy priest in a Coen's Brothers movie. A Coen movie, rather. Is like so, again, that part, I think, would be better if it had any jokes that were funny. Or any dialogue that was even medium interesting or good. It is such a first draft character. It never goes beyond what he is revealed to be immediately. Yeah. And then it's just a repetition of the beat, which I think he plays fairly well.

1:25:57Griffin Newman:I think the more they repeat it, kind of the funnier it is in a way. Especially as the movie gets darker, you're like, oh, here's Charlie doing that again. When Chris Evans shows up in church and there's like the big photos of him behind him. Yes. I'm like, it got a small chuckle from me the first time I saw it.

1:26:15David Sims:Same. Yeah. I do feel like if he had figured out a way to add a dollop of real menace to this performance, it would have been a little interesting. But also, this movie kind of shrugs and goes, this guy doesn't fucking matter. He was shot off screen after being forced to perform the heinous crime of Cunnilingus upon a woman. Awful. I do kind of like that scene. I'm sorry, I was going by the DJ Khaled playbook there. I do kind of like that scene of his final sex scene is with the French drug nepo queen correct whose name is is French for honey isn't it

1:26:55Griffin Newman:what is her name

1:26:56David Sims:is her name Miel Miel which is French for honey yes you're correct you're right the last beat of the movie where they say that

1:27:03Griffin Newman:she asked for sex American style and he says missionary which makes me wonder then how do French French style Or sexual people have sex. The joke is that missionary is the most boring position, and Americans are boring. French people, of course, yeah, they just kind of like blow cigarettes and smoke at each other. Un petit mort de chien? What's that now? He was trying to do... Did you say a little death of dog?

1:27:30David Sims:He just said dog orgasm. Okay. No, what I... Yeah, that is what I said. I tried to say sex doggy style. Oh, sure. But you're right that what I said was closer to... It's not closer to it.

1:27:42Griffin Newman:It's a euphemism for orgasm. Kind of fucked out. My favorite French euphemism is, and I'm not sure if this is still true. People can let me know. I haven't lived in France in a long time, is that you call a cum stain a carte de France because the map of France kind of looks like a... You could say that about kind of any map. France is very hexagonal. It's very cum staining. I was going to say, you can't say that about Chile. Yeah. Italy. Is something wrong with you? Is something wrong with you? I think one could come a boot. All right. Well, all right. Why do we do a side podcast that's like Coming Shapes?

1:28:15Griffin Newman:What's going on? This is an hour 20 in? This is a side podcast? I'm not sure if that's sustainable. Can I do? We go country to country. I would say Coming Shapes is about the least podcast-friendly thing possible. Sure. Like in audio form where it kind of looks like a boot. Yeah, guys, I wish you could see this one. Can I pivot to something way, way less controversial? I just wanted to say. Damn it. I was going to do a good joke. Okay, what's your joke? You ever seen I Love You Daddy, the Louis C.K. movie? Charlie Day is in that. Charlie Day is in that, playing kind of the same role. Sure. Charlie Day?

1:28:49Griffin Newman:Exactly. Like, where it's just kind of like every... Why won't you fuck me? Every so often, he just shows up to be kind of lewd and like that. Yes. And it's sort of the same, like, hey, this movie kind of needs, like, a slap on the cheeks, like, for 20 minutes. Every time the camera fucking, like, tracks into the room and he's doing this with his hands and he yells her name. It's fun. Every time I'm like, I'm having a good time.

1:29:09David Sims:He does. He does. I will say the least annoying version of his bit that he keeps not not even not getting the hint, but just refusing to accept that she is not sexually attracted to men every time he, quote unquote, politely asks her out on a date. Right. And he does play it so guilelessly that the bit isn't creepy or annoying. It is kind of harmless and funny. Yeah, it's kind of like, oh, you. Yeah, and sort of like thematically it almost works as you were talking about before of like the thing is like the way in which men control women's lives. Yes. The first interaction you see her have is him hitting on her.

1:29:45Right. Right. And it's also the last interaction she has with someone who is not the girl on the motorcycle.

1:29:50David Sims:But even in a non-threatening way, his relationship to her is completely transactional. Yeah. All of his kind of cooperation with her is based on when will she agree to go get dinner with me. Yeah. And when she explains to him why she won't, he goes like, you always say that. Yeah. Which is kind of funny, but yes, it's all about, yes, a woman trying to find an identity that is removed from all these systems. Honey, kinda. Kinda. Honey, kinda. Chris Evans' final sex scene, he is having sex based on her direction. She is the one giving the commands, telling him what to do. And then he afterwards says, that was the best sex ever.

1:30:25David Sims:I like a woman who can take charge. There's some subversion. And then he shoots him in the head. Bam. While Honey is parked outside or pulling up to his congregation. I should mention the other plot element here is Talia Ryder as her niece.

1:30:41Griffin Newman:Right. So you got this kind of like domestic plot line and this murder mystery plot line in parallel. So yes, Talia Ryder is the niece.

1:30:48David Sims:She goes missing. What's the character's name?

1:30:50Griffin Newman:Corinne.

1:30:51David Sims:Right. She's running away from her abusive boyfriend. She doesn't want her mom to find out and say, I told you so. Honey is kind of like helping shield her. She goes to a bus stop. She's creeped out by an old man who she doesn't know is her grandfather. Played by that actor's name, Cale Brown. I think he's quite good in his one real scene. But she's now a second missing person. Are these things connected? And Honey believes that she must have been abducted by Chris Evans and his sex cult. But in fact, Chris Evans is shot by the French sort of emissary. for this drug operation. It's clearly them being like, ah, femme fatale, get it?

1:31:37Griffin Newman:Yeah, I mean, having her be French does not make sense. And it's like the French are running this drug church out of Bakersfield? What if they wanted to be on the East Coast? That seems like a long way to go. I think the... I'm just... No, I agree with you. I'm sorry to poke holes. They worked backwards from the Vespa, clearly. They worked backwards from, like, here's a lady wearing all one pattern on a Vespa with a woman.

1:32:00David Sims:Wouldn't that be funny? Wouldn't that be stylish? This woman looks incredible. She holds the screen. I'm not... She's a very hot lady. I'm not not enjoying myself anytime she's in the movie, but it's adding to the where is all of this going, right? Honey pulls up. She hears a gunshot. Chris Evans has been shot. They don't show her discovering the body or anything like that. She also sees a motorcycle pull away from the gunshot, and she's not like, maybe I should see where she's going. She's like, huh. And that's the second point in the movie where she's sort of like driven past this woman, right?

1:32:27David Sims:But hasn't really engaged with her. It's clearly blind to her as a suspect because she wants to have sex with her. Right. And then I'm trying to remember how she figures out that, in fact, Aubrey Plaza is the one. She just goes over to her house because she's like, I know a cop that can actually help me. Oh, right. She just wants to follow up.

1:32:41Griffin Newman:It is truly, right.

1:32:42David Sims:She just checks in and Aubrey Plaza is like, FYI, it was me all along. And Aubrey Plaza is like, you hate me because I'm poor, right? I bet you hate my house. Yeah. And she's like, I'm from Bakersfield too. Right. And then Aubrey Plaza goes like full kind of like serial killer mode. Like Pamela Voorhees. Qually sees Honey. Honey Qually. MC sees two cups of tea and is like, who are you making tea for?

1:33:06Griffin Newman:And Honey, sorry, Qually and Plaza, Honey and MG have been fucking the whole movie. But it's this kind of like forbidden off on like sort of quasi relationship.

1:33:17David Sims:I think those scenes are all very good and are kind of the closest this movie has to having any real emotion. There's the scene where they're like basically having sex in the bar in front of all the male cops is like good and like interesting. It's like, yeah, these men would not notice. And it's like, it is interesting in a little bit. And it is hot, I think. I agree. But then it gets to another problem I have with both this movie. And the last one is, does Ethan think gay people are funny? I don't know. I there's some things in here where it's like there was a bit while they were talking when I heard them talking after the movie that I saw where they were like there's that scene right after they have sex where honey is like cleaning all the dildos and shit.

1:34:02And they were talking about like the only argument they had while filming. It was like something whatever they were editing it and even wanted to hold longer on the sex toy cleaning because he thought it was really funny. And then Trisha says, but he doesn't understand as lesbians, sex toys are sacred to us. And I was like, okay, one of you thinks this is too funny. And one of you thinks this is too serious.

1:34:22Griffin Newman:You're both horseshoeing over here. Like, let's relax. They're just dildos.

1:34:27David Sims:I think there's perhaps a sort of double-pronged thing happening here, much like a double-sided dildo. Great segue. Thank you. In their split up, it does seem clear that Ethan's the horny one of the Coen brothers, right? Yeah. My stupid letterboxd review of driveway dolls was like, okay, the big experiment's over. Now we know which Coen is which. Like, let's get a pizza in here and get them back together. It is frustrating how much this movie plays into the narrative of now we can divide the interests and the skill sets. Yeah. Which the whole thing was that they were supposed to be like this like complete singular unit that worked so well without speaking.

1:35:08David Sims:Which I think they are. And I think to some degree versus like, we will see what the second Joel movie is like, right? But Joel feels, seems to be taking their sabbatical from working together as, well, let me explore parts of myself as a director that I never explored. Yeah. And treat them with the same level of seriousness as our work together. Yeah. And Ethan seems to be specifically on a mission of, I want to not take this stuff as seriously anymore. Yeah. And, you know, and like, you know, Joel had the co-writer too, which was Shakespeare. He did. He's from England, I think. Bill did a pass on that script.

1:35:45David Sims:Yeah, yeah, yeah. The new film. De Blasio? Yeah, Big Bill. Big Bill De Blasio himself. The new script, there's like not much known about. I think everyone sort of assumes it's a solo writing credit, but no one really knows. What if he started writing it with Fran just to like even it out? I mean, that would be fun. I don't know. I don't know. I don't? No. We talk about this in our Driveaway Dolls episode, which will have come out, but you have not heard. That Trisha Cook was very outspoken when she was promoting Driveaway Dolls, where that script came from and the sort of reignited passion to finally put this thing into production is that, especially at the time she started writing this, in the 90s, if there was, like, gay cinema in America and especially lesbian cinema, it was almost always very serious.

1:36:30David Sims:Yeah. Very dramatic. And she's right. I don't disagree. It's hard to live life.

1:36:36Griffin Newman:Yeah. Coming out stories.

1:36:38David Sims:Exactly. Getting murdered stories. Even if it wasn't traumatic, it was about adversity you know it was about processing shame and fighting for happiness and whatever and she wanted to the whole thought experiment of these lesbian b-movie trilogy of riffs is can I like remove any sense of self-importance from lesbian storytelling can I make lesbian movies that are allowed to just be like dumb and messy right but this movie is like touching third rails or at least like trying to touch serious subjects. It's identifying where serious subjects are, pointing at them and saying, but I don't want to talk about that in a way.

1:37:18David Sims:And I think it extends to the representation of sex, which she's just like, I want to show these things on screen in a way that is not the male gaze and that normalizes it. Right. And that also allows it to be funny, but in a way that isn't a punch line. But I do think the balance is kind of off here. Yeah. Just something feels a little too much like you think the fact the movie seems to think that it is like a little bit funny when two women are having sex to me a little bit I don't know yes and I think like I think drive away dolls which is to be clear it is deadly serious of course sex is very serious

1:37:57Griffin Newman:it's very very serious I'm very sort of stone faced I'm like the emoji that's just like line line line I'm wearing the gloves that go up to your elbows and a full ball gown

1:38:07David Sims:yeah very serious the whole time I think Driveway Dolls, like, it abstracts its sex scenes to the point of almost feeling like Three Stooges routines. Yeah. Where it is successful in being like, we are working past this being erotic, that this is just eye candy for, like, young dudes. Yeah. By making it so silly that it's hard to kind of objectify it in that sense. And I think this movie, by having scenes where there actually is some sense of palpable connection between her and Aubrey Plaza that is played somewhat real. And there's sort of this sort of ticking clock within the movie of these are two women who are afraid of commitment.

1:38:56David Sims:They like, you know, they like fuck and move on. and they're acknowledging that they're worried about having to hit the end point of disconnecting from each other because they don't want to uh accidentally land in something that feels more serious and committed that these are people who try to live without attachments yeah and it feels like it's there already like i thought they were pretty good together in a way that yeah and you know the introduction of honey is her in bed with a woman getting the call and saying like lock the door on your way out. Right, right. That she just is really like, I'm moving on.

1:39:31David Sims:And by comparing notes and revealing that they have the same kind of relationship to relationships, they are unlocking a new level of vulnerability in each other that sort of scares the two of them. Yeah. And is interesting. And then the movie responds by saying, actually, she's insane. Right. We're going to throw hot tea in her face and turn her into like a scarred Bond villain.

1:39:51Griffin Newman:Yeah, she becomes kind of a Bond villain. Who you have to murder.

1:39:54David Sims:Yeah. Mm-hmm. I... feel like... Yes? They just don't seem to have that good of a grasp on her own material. I don't know. There is a version of this ending that does not redeem this movie for me, but where Margaret Qualley shows up, puts it together, sees her, Aubrey Plaza just breaks down emotionally. Rather than going full fucking super villain mode. Right, full like actual psycho. And being like, you've discovered my scheme. I must fight you to the death. Yeah, it's a little Scooby-Doo, except with... It feels very Scooby-Doo. Lesbian murderer. Yes. That she's sort of like, I don't know, it got out of hand.

1:40:32David Sims:Yeah. Right? That you almost like try to deal with the delayed like time release trauma of this woman and what she's gone through and like her needing to confess this to someone who she's actually let in emotionally. Yeah. And that still needs more like something earlier in the movie. A clue you in that this lady is perhaps kidnapping people and putting her on her husband. And it would be hard to pull off in terms of the aforementioned tone management that this movie does not totally have under control, but it feels like the kind of ending that would at least make this film feel like it had something to say.

1:41:08Yeah.

1:41:09David Sims:It would have functioned a little better. Something on its mind versus it feels like such an easy out to be like, well, that didn't mean anything. Chris Evans didn't kidnap her. She did kidnap Honey's original client. She solved that, but he's already dead, so there's nothing she can do about it. She retrieved her niece, who's now back home. You have the kind of one moment of her waking up in the hospital to her sister and the niece being like, thank you so much. Bow tied on that. Honey drives off. Sees the French lady on a Vespa. Basically, they're fucking each other with their eyes.

1:41:47Griffin Newman:Yeah.

1:41:47David Sims:Movie over. So now she's going to get in bed with a different criminal? Yeah. What was the point of any of this? That's a really good question. Women be out here doing it for themselves? Women, okay. That is true.

1:42:00Griffin Newman:It is true. It's a crazy world out there, and Honey will always be getting a coffee with her trusty assistant, What's Her Pants, and solving the next case and fingering a lady, and I don't know. I like the assistant. No, keep going. I like the fact she's out there right now. The dust will be blowing down Bakersfield Avenue.

1:42:20David Sims:She'll be flicking through that Rolodex. Right. It's not the only thing she's flicking through. I like, I have to say it. Okay. I like the assistant character. And I do like that dynamic. To your cosplaying point of like, she's almost like, honey, like you're doing like the bit. Why do you still have a Rolodex? Why are you asking me for coffee as if we're in like some fucking 50s TV show? She looks like a lesbian from the year 2025. She's got like a Wild Fang shirt on. Like she's, yeah. Her name is Gabby Beans. Good name?

1:42:50Griffin Newman:Yeah, great name. That makes sense because she's really obsessed with the coffee. That's a good point. What were you about to say, David? For my incredible joke. She's in the upcoming Steven Spielberg film, which we love to see. Okay. And she was in Romeo and Juliet with our friend Rachel.

1:43:06David Sims:Oh, the Broadway production? On Broadway. Oh, okay. Yeah. Even just like the opening credits for this, which I think is kind of a cool visual idea of the cast appearing as signage on closed down businesses. Did they rip that off from Fat City? They said they might have. Yeah. I think so. And I'm just like, it's kind of just executed sloppily. Can I say something about that? Not to keep being like, and I was at the talkback, but the only three things I remember have all come up. The last one is that they said they had to go film that twice because they fucked up the first time they filmed it. And it's the things you always hear about the Coen brothers when there's two of them instead of just one, is that they have the tightest sets you've ever heard of, right?

1:43:46And nothing, there's no mistakes, there's no wasted shots, there's no wasted time. And they had to go film. They wasted a day filming the wrong stuff the wrong way to make the credits. Here's the shame.

1:43:56David Sims:It also feels like they fucked it up the second time. It feels like they should have done it a third time because I like the idea and it doesn't feel like they figured out the right way to make it to execute it. It just ended badly or something. Yes. I don't know what that is. Yeah. And someone was on our Reddit was sharing a story of working on a production with someone who worked on Llewyn Davis and asking them about working with the Coens. And he was like, I got so many stories about how they're the fucking best. Right. Right. Like as guys, as filmmakers, as bosses, as all of this. Right. But the anecdote that really stuck with me was he said, he remembered looking at the shooting schedule and in their notes, it would say like, you know, shot whatever, set up whatever, three takes.

1:44:36David Sims:And they'd be like, they're allotting three takes and they would get it in three takes. That they're so good at this that they basically can guess in terms of like how they get these movies made under schedule and under budget, which is always one of the most impressive things about them, that they can correctly kind of eyeball. That might take six takes to get right. That one we can probably get in two. And he was like, they were basically always right about that.

1:45:02Griffin Newman:That's wild.

1:45:02David Sims:And that's the shit about them that feels magical.

1:45:05Griffin Newman:Savant magic. Right, right. Or just experience. But yeah.

1:45:08David Sims:And then they split up and you're like, this is completely dissipated. What's going on here? Now, what's frustrating about the Go Beavers thing, if we can circle back here. Sure. Go Beavers. Is that when they do interviews now, solo. I don't get it.

1:45:20Griffin Newman:I just, what's frustrating is that kind of humor is sort of impenetrable to me. Here's a spoiler.

1:45:25David Sims:I predict that movie will be about vaginas. Or boobs. If you're David. That would be a swerve.

1:45:31Griffin Newman:Positive. The beaver movie was about boobs. That's a twist at the end.

1:45:34David Sims:The camera pans up.

1:45:36Griffin Newman:Eyes up here, buddy.

1:45:38David Sims:A little lower. Boobs down here. My boobs are up here, buddy. When they do interviews. Yeah. which they haven't done a ton of since they've been split up but they have both I mean like

1:45:51Griffin Newman:Ethan and Trisha did nominal press for this movie they did more press for Drive Away Dolls because I think they wanted to really underline like Trisha was the co-author of this for Honey Don't I think no one was really

1:46:02David Sims:barking up the tree anyways I couldn't find a lot of reviews to that point I bought the fucking Blu-ray because I'm committed to the great project to Blank Check this this I I struggled to even define how much The Criterion Edition you've got? This feels like a bootleg. The cover feels like it was printed out on like an HP Envy 900. It's like the discard itself was like written on with a Sharpie. It has zero special features. The menu says play setup. It doesn't have a scene selection option. No scene selection. I'm not kidding. Like it feels like it's a 1997 DVD. Love it. Does it have a menu that does anything?

1:46:42David Sims:It has a menu that's just play and setup and it's just this still image. and when you go to set up the only option is English subtitles. Is music playing? No. The song Honey Don't is not playing? Nope, nothing's playing. Right, there's an original song in this movie that's co-written by Ethan, produced by Jack Antonoff and sung by Margaret Cawley and Talia Ryder. There are actually two songs that follow. It's not a cover

1:47:04Griffin Newman:of the famous song Honey Don't?

1:47:06David Sims:That also plays but there are two original songs in this movie that Ethan co-wrote. Are they in the movie? Yep. There's one in a montage where she's driving around like interviewing suspects. Okay. And watching it this time. Oh, I thought that was just some bad song I'd never heard. Well, you're not wrong about that. Well, that basically is what it is. I guess it was a bad song I'd never heard. Watching it, I was like, this sounds like Margaret Qualley. And then I looked it up and I want to say.

1:47:29Griffin Newman:It's called Odd Wad Wankers.

1:47:33David Sims:Yes. Sorry.

1:47:34Griffin Newman:The other one's called In the Sun She Lies.

1:47:36David Sims:There's also another one. Her fake name is Lace Manhattan. The other one's called My Little Black Star, maybe? Lace Manhattan and Dixie Normus are the pen names. We gotta call it. This all feels...

1:47:47Griffin Newman:I'm playing the box office. No, I got so much more to say. This just feels like when you talk to like a seven-year-old and they're like, my humor's a little bawdy. Yeah. Like, it's all... I don't know. It just feels like someone who thinks they are funnier than they are. I agree. The thing I was gonna say... He's famously funny. He's one of the Coen brothers. There's only two of them. I know.

1:48:08David Sims:I got tickets to see this play he's got running off Broadway right now that's like three one acts. Everyone who's seen it has said it's actually very good and funny. Sure, fine. Aubrey Plaza's in it. Our friend Dylan's in it. Dylan Galula, friend of the podcast. Oh. It's got a good cast and everyone says it's good. And I've asked this to people who felt similar to me about Honey Don't. They were like, yeah, no, it's actually good. I'm not like grading it on a curve. So it's a little odd because he has done these side writing projects and they have worked on their own terms before. The thing I was going to say.

1:48:40He lost his grading people on curves. Honey or Donnie.

1:48:42David Sims:Hey. In the interviews they have done, they're like, you know, we both felt burnout. We took some time. Ethan didn't really want to make stuff anymore. Joel said, maybe I do something on my own. But that we've just been out of sync. That they've been writing something together. But then it was like, Honeydont got greenlit. So then Joel started writing something else. And then by the time Honeydont came out and Joel was about to go into production on his movie. so now Ethan has to wait for Joel to be finished with his movie before they could make the next thing together where it's like if they did Greenlight Go Beavers tomorrow it might delay the reunion for another two years.

1:49:22David Sims:Right, which is the last thing we need. They've been like alternating productions in a way that has fucked us. I'm getting older all the time.

1:49:29Griffin Newman:We all are. Which is breaking. I didn't realize that was going to keep happening to me and it does keep happening. I really thought I was going to beat the trend. I'm hitting a big roundish number this Saturday. This Saturday. Okay. What are you doing? Leaving the country.

1:49:44David Sims:Get the fuck out of here. I'm not kidding. I'm gone. No spoilers, but is it an age that Judd Apatow is particularly obsessed with? This is. Yeah, for his film, this is 29. That's the roundest number. The nine is pretty round. It's a round thing. I'm realizing he has two titles with that age in it.

1:50:03Griffin Newman:Does he?

1:50:04David Sims:Oh, he does.

1:50:05Griffin Newman:He does. Four-year-old virgin. Four-year-old virgin. Yeah. Wow. You know what? How did that never occur to me before? Obviously, I know the 40-year-old virgin was kind of Carell's idea. But it is funny that he's hung up on 40. He's like, you better have even either fucked or become a millionaire by the age of 40. Two of his six movies are 40 pictures. Huh. Anyways, you know what? As it rapidly approaches for me, I kind of understand the man.

1:50:29David Sims:Sure. Yeah. Your next book is going to be... Are you ready to add to the 40 count? Actually, you know what actually is fucked up about the book I'm working on now? It's a lesbian road trip. Well. I'm not kidding. Well. So I'm challenging Ethan Coen to single combat with this book. I think this is a bar you can clear. Yeah, what I'm hoping to do is I put in actual jokes. So I'm hoping that I'm hoping that does something about it. Interesting approach. Sorry. You were saying something leading up to as you approach. Oh, I'm just saying I'm getting older all the time. They take two more years. Oh, yes.

1:51:04I'm going to even be around.

1:51:05Griffin Newman:And look, there's one interview I read with Ethan Trishan. Ethan Trishan, not Ethan Trishan. What the fuck is going on with me?

1:51:12David Sims:I thought that's kind of a cute couple name for them. Ethan. Right.

1:51:16Griffin Newman:Ethian. Where, you know, they're asked like, hey, so are you going to do that third movie? And they're like, oh, maybe like, you know, we talk about that. We wrote a script with our kid. So maybe we'll do that. Or maybe. And they also say, and Ethan works with Joel, and they're doing something. And you're like, oh, that sounds good. And like, again, I do not want to begrudge. The audience is going like, wah! People enjoying working with their kids. And it's not like that has never produced something interesting. They have. It can. But it does sometimes feel a little like, guys. Name a couple. I would probably have to do some strict Googling and research to unearth the ones that are good.

1:51:57David Sims:The George Miller movie where I always get the number wrong. 3 ,000 Years of Solitude. Oh, that's right. But his kid, quote unquote, is old. Sure. No offense to that. You gotta have an old ass kid if you're gonna work with them.

1:52:11Griffin Newman:You know, it can happen. Of course, it's great. Oh, you collaborate with your kid.

1:52:15David Sims:I want the Coens and their families to do whatever makes them happy. They have earned it. But I also agree with you that they are soon to both be in their 70s. Yeah. And the film culture has been lacking from their collaborations. Yeah. And when it was just the narrative of Ethan is tired, he wants a break, I'm like, by all means, take your break. Take your break. But now that we're on the second Lark movie, and in that time he has also produced an evening of theater, I'm like, it's not like you don't want to work.

1:52:48Griffin Newman:No, and I think he has said, like, yeah, I'm over that. That exhaustion, I dealt with it, and it was invigorating to make these movies with my wife and isn't that fun. And I'm like, that is fun. Would love you to make something I like. Perhaps a trite complaint of mine. And like, I do kind of have the thing of like, you owe me nothing. You made a bunch of shit that I love. You want to make things that don't work for me. That's fine. If you can get the money, go for it.

1:53:14David Sims:It's not like this. Boobs. Boobs. Vaginas. It's not like this movie. It's so cheery. Was shot back to back, but they were shot pretty close together. Obviously with the same lead actor. and Working Title financed them both. And it does feel like Working Title has benefited from supporting the Coens for decades. They clearly are like, this is a rounding error for us. Exactly.

1:53:38Griffin Newman:It's kind of like it all evens out and maybe there's another interesting thing coming

1:53:43David Sims:or whatever. But like, I think Honeydome was in the can before Driveaway Dolls even came out, if I'm not mistaken. Now that two of these have been released to a pretty violent indifference from the public. I don't know a single person that's not an absolute freakazoid that has seen it.

1:54:01Griffin Newman:Right. Whereas Drive Away Dolls, some people were like, oh, sure. This one, nobody was like, I saw Honey Don't and was disappointed by it. The only person I know that saw it that was unexpected of me for them to see it was my friend, the drummer in my band, Ivy, that I took to go see it.

1:54:16David Sims:I have had multiple close friends and family members truly say, you didn't see Honey Don't, did you? when it came out, like in the month after it came out. And I was like, yeah, we're doing them on the podcast right now. And they were like, yeah, but I thought you were going to skip that one. Not just that we'd skip the episode, but they'd be like, that you would not feel a compulsive need to see it. You would skip it because like, you have to not see it. These are people who know me. For your health. And know that I couldn't skip it. And are like, but you must have skipped that one. It's that one tweet about David Attenborough narrating planet Earth is going, skip, skip.

1:54:48Don't like this one. Skip. Skip this animal.

1:54:52David Sims:It did feel like this was out of theaters within like less than two weeks. I think it did two or three weeks in theaters.

1:55:01Griffin Newman:Yeah.

1:55:02David Sims:Yeah. I saw it like a week into its release and I remember checking Showtimes a week later and being like, it's down to like one time a day at one theater.

1:55:09Griffin Newman:Yeah.

1:55:09David Sims:It was gone fast in New York City. A thing I want to think about is, so when I did see it, they were introducing, right after Honeydownt, they introduce the long goodbye on the same screen ten minutes later. Which is a film, Ethan, I said, was a specific inspiration. Imagine watching this and then sitting in your, staying in your seat, and then the long goodbye. Not gonna make Honeydownt look great in retrospect. I mean, I had a similar experience of... It'll pick you up! I just watched this for the second time, but two days ago, I went and saw Wake Up Dead Man. The new Knives Out movie, which had a little preview screening at the Paris.

1:55:45David Sims:I guess we'll be out now by the time this episode comes out.

1:55:48Griffin Newman:At least in theaters or whatever. I can never keep track of what Netflix rollouts are.

1:55:53David Sims:But I saw that on Monday or Sunday night. I greatly enjoyed it. And then I was like, that's going to make this Honey Don't Rewatch significantly worse.

1:56:03Griffin Newman:That's true in terms of, yeah, right. They're not the exact same movie. No, but there's murders that are being solved.

1:56:10David Sims:And even its relationship to Christian faith in America. It's like, it's dealing with some similar stuff.

1:56:17Griffin Newman:Well, Wake Up Dead Man has the Rian Johnson thing of it is trying to run at topical shit that sometimes you're a little like, Rian, this feels on the nose, or Rian, you're almost too animated by like right now. But at the other time, you're like, kind of respect you taking the swing versus Honeydump being like, isn't, you know, Pat Robertson a hypocrite? You're like, mm-hmm, he's dead.

1:56:38David Sims:I will also say this to his credit. All three of these movies, the first time I'm seeing them, about halfway through, I'm like, I get it. This is good. This is fun. Right. But that's all you got.

1:56:48Griffin Newman:And then they get you with the...

1:56:49David Sims:And then they get me. And it's not even like a twist thing where I'm like, oh, you're doing far more than I thought you were underneath the surface. And I feel like the first half of the movie, I was just like, okay, I get it. It's a Trump thing. That's really all you have to like talk about. And then he's like, no, I'm talking about like 20 things. And it's the kind of flowering you want a movie like Honey, Don't Have. What was the talk with J.J.

1:57:10Griffin Newman:Abrams like? I thought that was a very interesting ploy I did too

1:57:15David Sims:there were two screenings that day the one I saw was moderated by Josh Horowitz

1:57:20Griffin Newman:he was excellent he's the king of that

1:57:23David Sims:they did a surprise of Daniel Craig coming out

1:57:25Griffin Newman:the audience exploded I just thought it was when I saw it was Abrams and Rian Johnson I did the double take oh sure yeah J.J. Abrams and then I'm like didn't he fucking make episode 9 which is basically like taking a piss on episode eight like is this like a grand healing moment is this we've always been friends

1:57:46David Sims:i would have loved to have seen it it did feel like just them sitting on the stage together was meant to be some rebuttal to the like rock versus undertaker narrative yeah that the internet has built for the last 10 years but it's like the rock versus the undertaker if the rock was like

1:58:01Griffin Newman:lying perfectly still on the ground it's a bit of a hydrogen bomb versus coughing baby situation right now. I mean, I'm all for J.J. Abrams making Seve United. It's like a Twitter. It's an incredible name. I'm all for J.J. Abrams making first off, anything. He hasn't fucking made anything since episode nine. Second off, would love it to be good.

1:58:25David Sims:Maybe. Yeah. That'd be cool. It's by all accounts a Back to the Future riff. It is time travel influenced in some way. Okay. Hey, the book I'm working on is also a time travel book. Hey!

1:58:37Griffin Newman:There's nothing wrong with time travel. Time travel rocks.

1:58:43Griffin Newman:This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome.

1:58:46David Sims:You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome? That's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required, compatibility and availability varies 18+. This episode is brought to you by Redfin. You're listening to a podcast, which means you're probably multitasking. Maybe even scrolling home listings on Redfin. Saving homes without expecting to get them.

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1:59:38Griffin Newman:Look, before we plug Maddie's excellent books, which just reminded me to do... Simplicity. We should play the box office game.

1:59:46David Sims:Much like Rob Mack, just stop. Don't say... Simplicity rocks. In the land of...

1:59:50Griffin Newman:Yeah. August 22nd, 2025. Honeydone opens number eight,$3 million. I saw this movie in a double feature. It topped out at five. Right. Driveaway... So it could not complete its black hat.

2:00:05David Sims:I want to say driveway opened to five and ended at 10. Sure. Let's see. So this was already like completely 50 % of something that already didn't. What this bad boy calls. That's a great question.

2:00:19Griffin Newman:No driveway dolls also only made five. Really? Yeah. Okay. I don't know.

2:00:26David Sims:They're saying they're like 15 or 20. Yeah.

2:00:28Griffin Newman:I think that's probably about right. They don't seem like they would take that long to make. Yeah. I just remembered another gripe I had. Please go ahead. Throw it out. Very quickly. is during the talkback Ethan kept saying Drive Away Dykes which I know was the working title of the film and that's the sort of secret title of the movie hey man are you allowed to say that well again this is why they did the full court press like Trisha is a co-equal I think that's also why the movie was not technically titled then he said it so many times right and every time I'm like okay like eight years ago I'd be like alright whatever man right now right now right now right here right now right here like the song says yeah Bring back Fat Boy Slim.

2:01:07David Sims:What's that guy doing? It's a good question. He did the show with David Byrne. That was good. Here Lies Love. Is that what it was called? True. That was a good show. Yeah. I saw this movie in a double feature. No, it wasn't. Never mind. Really? There you go. Sorry. I like that show. I was thinking about American. Oh, well, now.

2:01:23Griffin Newman:Here Lies Love was very mixed reception. I had political issues with it. I won't get into on your movie podcast. I don't.

2:01:30David Sims:I hear that. And I respect that. Thank you. I saw this in a double feature with Highest to Lowest which was just interesting in terms of it being like two late movies from American Masters that are kind of being dumped and disregarded

2:01:46Griffin Newman:yeah that are funded by well no actually Honeydone isn't a streamer right it's a focus

2:01:51David Sims:but yeah but yeah but Honeydone I was like whew and then I went across the street with my girlfriend we got tacos we walked back into the theater we saw Highest to Lowest and we were like pumping our fists and we were like this isn't perfect but God, when it hits, it hits. More like lowest to highest. In that regard. Well, it does kind of build in that order, but it was sort of like, I wish Honeydome could have delivered some of this juice. Yeah. What's number one at the box office?

2:02:14Griffin Newman:It is, speaking of things that were on streaming, the streaming sensation of the year being pushed onto wider screens 10 weeks into its theatrical release.

2:02:23David Sims:So this is interesting, because technically Netflix didn't report the weekend numbers for K-pop Demon Hunters.

2:02:29Griffin Newman:But it is listed here on the numbers as the number one movie of this week, making$19 million. It's one of those,

2:02:36David Sims:depending on what site you check, because it was estimates that were like sort of repeated off the record.

2:02:42Griffin Newman:It was certainly the most viewed movie of the week in theaters. No question. No one could really deny this, and it had an insane per-screen average because it wasn't on that many screens.

2:02:49David Sims:But I believe some outlets reported that Weapons was, by technicality, the number one movie of the week. Fair enough. So number two at the box office is Weapons. Yes.

2:02:58Griffin Newman:One of my favorite movies. I know Matt didn't like it. Oh, whoa. I know Maddie didn't like things about it. I know Maddie didn't like things about it. I saw Maddie Letterboxd about it. I thought I really, really liked most of it. You didn't love the Amy Maddock. I thought she was great. Her performance is great. I liked the movie immensely. I was really locked into it for most of it. I thought the ending was so fucking good. I was losing my mind screaming. Talk about sticking to land. Talk about paying off like a slobber. It was more like I didn't like Barbarian that much. Right. And the thing.

2:03:29I felt he was dipping in the same. I felt he was going back to...

2:03:31David Sims:Repeated some of the things. Have you heard that I said this on a website I shouldn't have logged into, and I got yelled at for days and days and days and days and days and days. But did you know it's very scary when a woman is old? And I think this movie was doing it less than Barbarian. I think I was more mad at the moment about it. I think I would revise my stupid Letterboxd review to be a little higher. Sure, fair enough. And maybe I'll do that so no one yells at me. Because now you've loosed them upon me, David.

2:03:58Griffin Newman:I fucking logged a five out of ten for Frankenstein, a movie that I know Griffin liked, but hardly was getting universal praise. And these days you do this on Letterboxd. People are—there's whatever. There's a gaggle of folks who come yell at you. And I'm not mad, and don't put it in the newspaper that I got mad, but I was kind of like, Jesus. I'll say this. David's holding up a little sign that says, I'm mad? It's like a little Wile E. Coyote. It's pointing at him? It's pointing at himself, which is hard because he's holding it perpendicular to his body.

2:04:26David Sims:I liked Frankenstein, but also like very much for me, a gentleman six with major issues. Sure. That also I went to see after hearing like all of my most trusted friends. Everyone kind of be like, oh, what a disappointment. Nuke it from orbit for two months. And I was like, more of this work than I was expecting. This is the Guillermo del Toro special. Because everyone I know hates it. And then I go watch it. I'm like, I had a nice time. You were saying, I wish he would make, in a text thread we're on, you were saying, I wish he would make something like Crimson Peak again. Fun. And my thought watching Frankenstein was this is what I wanted Crimson Peak to be.

2:04:58David Sims:Crimson Peak I totally bounced off of.

2:05:00Griffin Newman:I do feel like you and I land differently on GDT.

2:05:05David Sims:We're both like hot and cold on him, but we tend to alternate on which ones.

2:05:09Griffin Newman:I will also say the Oscar Isaac performance in Frankenstein goes in the bucket I've created with his Moon Knight and Apocalypse performances where I'm like three question marks. Like what? What? It is weird. Pedal to the metal kind of performance.

2:05:22David Sims:Not very successful casting. No. Alordi is fantastic. He's great. And that's what works in the movie, not just his performance. I'm the first to notice. Is he tall? Tall fella. Who looks as tall to play Elvis, I think? Tall fella. You have not seen the film yet, Matty? Frankenstein? Yeah. No. There's this bizarre thing, and I was very surprised. What if I'm sympathetic to the monster? General Toro seems to relate more to the monster character. That's what the book is. Well, I would say the whole movie

2:05:46Griffin Newman:is a little bit,

2:05:46David Sims:that's what the book is.

2:05:48Griffin Newman:To be fair,

2:05:49David Sims:most depictions, most adaptations of the book don't, really get at that.

2:05:55Griffin Newman:I disagree with that.

2:05:57David Sims:Yeah. Well, but a lot of that.

2:06:00Griffin Newman:in all the movies. A lot of, but like the classic like universal monsters depiction is like he was just a beast. Whereas like in the book he's like wearing a tuxedo and writing letters longhand with a feather. Which is how to live your life. That's how to live your life. Honey, don't need more longhand feather letters. Stitched fingers. Say that, that's a theater warm up. Longhand feather letter. Yeah. Number three of the box office, Griffin, is a film that did pretty good. Okay. A legacy sequel that I feel like came out, got mad reviews, and kind of like, you know, cleared almost 100 mil at the box office kind of almost quietly, despite one of its cast members being fucking the loudest person in the world these days.

2:06:43Griffin Newman:Enough of her. Maybe I'm being rude. It was me? She's a legend. Maddie, shut up.

2:06:48David Sims:I was pushing the world. Legacy sequel. It's not Sydney Sweeney. No. It's not I Know What You Did Last Summer. That I did not like. I did not care for that film. When did it come out? What week is this?

2:06:59Griffin Newman:This is its third week of release. It came out sort of August 8th.

2:07:03David Sims:Beginning of August. My wedding anniversary. It doesn't quite hit 100, but it gets close. 94. Loudest person in the world.

2:07:10Griffin Newman:She's just, there's been a lot of her lately. She's. And she's off the leash, as am I sometimes, so I respect it. But I do feel like she's felt very empowered to be, you know, a big poisonality. It is Jamie Lee Curtis Freakier Friday.

2:07:22David Sims:Yeah.

2:07:22Griffin Newman:Yeah. Oh. Yeah. Where she's like, should I fire off a Charlie Kirk tweet? I'm going to do it. I. Like some PR person is like, Jamie. Oh, forget it.

2:07:32David Sims:I defend her Oscar winning performance. I think she is quite good in everything everywhere all at once. I do think nothing good has come from giving her that Oscar.

2:07:42Griffin Newman:It certainly empowered her to go to launch. Very, very broad performances, I would say, of late. Yes. I will never forget queuing up that bear episode. that's just her and Abby Elliott's face in close-ups. Me and my wife watching it for 10 minutes and then me going, I think the whole episode is going to be this. And my wife going, I mean, no way, come on. And I sort of do the, I like track, you know, I hit the Apple remote to see the little screen. Yeah. And I'm like, just their faces, just their faces. The whole thing's just their faces. I will say. You're just like, do we have any diapers to change?

2:08:16I will say. I will say. I ain't go poop. Come on, come on. Please give us a second. The bear post season one, a lot of episodes, you're kind of like, is this going to be the whole episode?

2:08:25Griffin Newman:Oh, there's going to be this. Oh, the whole thing's going to be this. And I liked season two. I definitely liked season two. And season three, there were things I liked. There were episodes that worked for me. I've not yet watched four. Much like the Lady Killers, I'm afraid of it. Same. Or I watched some and then haven't finished it yet. Freak Your Friday. Did you see Freak Your Friday?

2:08:43David Sims:I still have not seen it. Neither have I. I will watch it when it's on Disney+.

2:08:46Griffin Newman:Then you saw it. Say what?

2:08:48David Sims:I'm joking.

2:08:49Griffin Newman:you probably didn't see Freakier Friday either I feel like everyone I know

2:08:55David Sims:who's seen it is like

2:08:57Griffin Newman:everyone who's seen it was like that's fine

2:08:58David Sims:it's kind of what you think it is it looks like a shampoo commercial but it's effective

2:09:03Griffin Newman:who directed it?

2:09:05David Sims:what's your name? Garnier, the brand the woman who did Late Night and Blinded by the Light Nisha Ganatra

2:09:13Griffin Newman:yes who did Late Night the great she didn't do Come on, that's Gurinder Chata. That's a real great film. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. But she did do Late Night, and then she did a movie, I think, called The High Note with Dakota Johnson. Yes, and Tracey Ellis Ross and Ice Cube. COVID forgotten film. Yes, yes. Number four, did you see Freaker Friday? No. You didn't, you didn't, you didn't. I didn't get freaky with it. Yeah. Happy Lindsay Lohan seems to have leveled out. She seems fine. She is in a commercial that drives me insane where she's like, talk about her children's toys or something that I get 85 ,000 times while I'm trying to watch my shows while I draw.

2:09:51And for that, she's dead to me.

2:09:54Griffin Newman:Accepted. Yeah. Number four at the box office is a big superhero film of the year that did probably about the lowest acceptable amount that the studio wanted it to make. The Fantastic Four call in first steps. Right. It squeaked over 500 worldwide. It just narrowly avoided being an embarrassment. But it was not, I think, the runaway bounce back on it.

2:10:16David Sims:No, especially when you consider Deadpool and Wolverine aside. That being their highest grossing film or their second highest grossing film in years is faint. Crazy. Imagine. Because it outgrossed Thunderbolts. It outgrossed Captain America. Brave New World. All respect to our president. Wow. I didn't realize he was here. He's right there. Get off. highest shelf. He's been listening to me the whole time? On our highest shelf. You gotta warn me.

2:10:48Griffin Newman:I will appoint the leader to every position in the cabinet. The films before that. Adamantium. Remember when that movie is about Japan and America negotiating an Adamantium mining treaty? That's the plot of the Steven Sondheim musical.

2:11:05David Sims:Yeah, it's the plot of a mouchette. One of the fallen celestials has become an island with Adamantium in its skull. Is there a problem in that? And the countries are fighting over it.

2:11:17Griffin Newman:It also outgrossed the Marvels. It did not outgross Guardians of the Galaxy 3. Okay. It did barely outgross Ant-Man and the Wasp Quantumania, but that's not what you want it to be doing. No. I was going to say, just imagine being Peyton Reed and you are about to make your 60s fantastic for a movie and you make Down with Love one of the best movies in the last 30 years. Great movie. In my opinion. Wonderful movie. Incredible movie. Shout out to my wife for making me watch it because it was her favorite movie in high school. Anyways, great movie. But imagine being him and you want to make your Fantastic Four 60s movie and nobody likes Down With Love so they don't let you.

2:11:48And then 20 years later they make it and it looks like that.

2:11:53David Sims:Look, I partially defend First Steps, but it must have been really frustrating to him to make Quantumania and then watch someone else make the kind of Fantastic Four movie that he had always wanted to make. That he would have nailed. And not totally hit it. I think he would have done a better job with it.

2:12:07Griffin Newman:Yeah. Number five at the box office is another animated film. um a sequel but not a squeak will no not that i'm aware of it's the bad guys too that's correct

2:12:19David Sims:a movie that kind of disappointed it ended up at 80 it ended up at the grand total of 82 million dollars yeah like the the first one outgrossed it and that was 2022 i want to say and also was uh like when peacock was putting movies on their streaming service three days after they were in theaters uh take that for what you will went to see it with the earlicks oh yeah i saw it it's

2:12:46Griffin Newman:his favorite movie sure didn't really move the needle displaced by whatever he's seen lately but last time i went over there he was watching it for the 80 000th time that day um number six at the box office this week was nobody too it is a lot of like okay like stuff in the box office

2:13:01David Sims:this august i do like it gives me a little bit of hope for like the health of uh cinema going yeah that Nobody 2 is kind of what we need more of, which is like you make a$15 million movie that makes like 50 worldwide, and Universal goes like, why not make a sequel? Who cares? It's fine. You can make a movie that gets on like second base

2:13:22Griffin Newman:and people are like, okay, sure. Number seven, James Gunn's Superman, which in its seventh week is outgrossing. Honey, don't. Number nine, be great. Naked Gun. Yeah. You see Naked Gun? Yeah. When it was funny, it was so funny. the last act kind of lost me. I think there's great bits in the last act. I think there's good. But it was like when the jokes were good I was like having the time of my fucking life.

2:13:46David Sims:I will say I saw it a second time in theaters and I found it did not quite have the replay value that for me I re-watched the fucking three original movies once a year. I grew up watching. We had 33 and a third taped off of television. Yeah. And I watched it until it broke. I think. The jokes hit still on the 50th watch for me. And I liked the Naked Gun 2025 a tremendous amount, but I did feel a little bit more of its creakiness the second watch. Still, best studio comedy we've had in quite some time. I mean, the whole time I was watching it and I was just like, oh, there's like a comedy with jokes in it.

2:14:21I was so... Can you believe it?

2:14:23David Sims:So happy while watching it. And even like, you know, just to be clear, watching it the second time, I was very happy watching it. I just wasn't in the ecstatic euphoria I was in the first time. Yeah, I also missed it in theaters. So I watched it at home, which I think maybe two miles away. It was a very good movie to see with theaters. Yeah.

2:14:38Griffin Newman:In theaters with an audience. I can imagine. Yeah. Number two of the box office, Griffin's favorite film in the year, Jurassic World Rebirth. There you go. Is that your review of the film? It's so much. It sucks so much. Oh, shocking. Not a fan. Not a fan of that one, were you? Quite poor. It stars people's sexiest man alive. I like him. Yeah, I like him too. He gives the best performance in that movie. Sure. I mean, I suppose.

2:15:07David Sims:I mean what's the competition that dinosaur that's a mix of two different dinosaurs I think Mahershala gives the best performance

2:15:12Griffin Newman:that guy kind of can't be bad and that movie is like trying so hard it's like weighing him down with bad and he's still like basically fine

2:15:22David Sims:I agree that he can't embarrass himself like he's just got like too much like legitimate presence yeah y 'all I was watching the other day was Alita Battle Angel good movie A good movie. Yes. Two, he fucking rocks it.

2:15:39Griffin Newman:Yeah. He looks cool as hell. Remember how that movie is like, she's like, I'm a big eyed crazy robot and I don't know what's going on with me. And then she's like, I do remember what's going on with me. I was in a moon war. And then she's like, I need to do rollerball fucking cyber sports. My dad is a rocket hammer. Yes. And then the end of the movie is like Edward Dorton lives in space. And I'm like, yes, he does. I can't believe that everybody's second one of those. Kristoff Waltz is a giant hammer. Yes, he does.

2:16:05David Sims:I was genuinely so convinced in my conspiracy theory adult brain that when Disney bought Fox, James Cameron was going to make it a contractual point that they had to green light a second Alita for him to keep making avatars. Sure. Right. No, because he had the Avatar bargaining chip. James Cameron could sell one of his submarines. They could make a new avatar whenever he wants. I was like, if he wants Alita to happen at Disney now that they're so invested in the Avatar business, it'll happen. And it seems like he's just been like, eh, public doesn't want it.

2:16:33Griffin Newman:Well, I think there's a world where there could have been some momentum and then COVID kind of killed it. The momentum is absolutely gone. Yeah. The momentum was lost in a moon war. Yeah. A moon war. It's just so good when she's like, fuck, I remember. Moon war! And I'm like, what?

2:16:48David Sims:Remember how she has like bespoke porcelain arms? Yes, I do.

2:16:52Griffin Newman:I have the steelbook that's her hand, her porcelain hand.

2:16:55David Sims:That one goes for a pretty penny.

2:16:56Griffin Newman:I know, baby. Okay, baby. It's all mine. Howdy, baby. Sorry. We should mention also... What a weird way to end our Coen Brothers movie series.

2:17:06David Sims:Our friends at Super Yockey sent over very nicely some co-branded Focus Features promo honey don't air fresheners. I'm giving it one more sniff to try and get to the bottom of it. Our windowless studio smells great, right? I had to get it off my desk. It was starting to work. I didn't get a good sniff on the microphone. They're meant for cars and not podcast studios. Well, I would say cars are smaller than podcast studios, but yes.

2:17:29Griffin Newman:Well, not all podcast studios, though. Not that first one we had. That's true. That was kind of car size. That was like a van-sized studio.

2:17:36David Sims:That was a mid-sized sedan. It's like a smart car or some shit. Why does Honey, who is so self-serious, have a Honey Don't license plate? That's a great question.

2:17:45Griffin Newman:Well, it's her little twist of whimsy, much like ordering the coffee. I don't fucking know. I don't know. Sorry for mentioning the movie. Ben's Honey Don't thoughts? Yeah, Ben, any other thoughts apart from Crush on Aubrey? Love it. That should be the review. That should be what I said to the rep as I exited the theater. As I get further away, the air is still leaving my body. It's the eraser head noise.

2:18:17Griffin Newman:Oh, my God. The classic what do you say to the rep thing of like, where you're like, I was interesting.

2:18:23David Sims:I got to go. The projector was on. They did a good job turning that on. That seat was working. It did not break.

2:18:32Griffin Newman:I'll say this. Both arms. It passed the time while I did laundry. Oh. Wash it on my phone as the way it was intended. If you. What if the Oscars give this 14 nominations? That'd be funny. Best phone movie. You think it'll get an original song? Three. It'll get three. Three original song knobs. There's none, right? Yeah. Well, K-pop Demon Hunters will clean up. Oh, yeah. But imagine them getting an original song nomination for this and not for Mr. Kim. That'd be great. That'd be great. That'd be deserved. It'd be good. Maddie. Maddie. Yeah. When does Simplicity come out? Please put everything that you do.

2:19:10Griffin Newman:Please do. Not just your wonderful. Too many things. But yeah, please buy my book. I have two books or three books out on the market, but the most recent one is called Simplicity. You can buy it at any, your local bookstore, any of the stores online, whatever. I would say it's a somewhat tough story to sum up in a good way. It is elevator pitchless. It has been out for... It is true. You need that elevator to be going to, like, the 200th floor. Like, it's fully... Local. This book, I finished... Local. I finished writing and drawing this book a year and a half ago, and I'm still like, people are like, what's the book about?

2:19:42And I'm like... It's really, really good. You gotta sit down. It's really... I think it's... I'm really proud of it. It's like... But it's about, like, revolution and love and sex and technology and a lot of... Oh, I do know that they... And the first printer it was supposed to be printed at in China rejected it because there were too many nude butts in it.

2:20:02David Sims:It's your In the Night Kitchen? It's mine. Correct. And, yeah. And also I have two podcasts myself. One is about mayors. It's called No Gods, No Mayors. NoGodsNoMayors.com, where every week we talk about a mayor because they're all maniacs. We're recording this on election day itself. Not stressed at all. I'm actually feeling really normal. I lack the ability to have faith in things, but hopefully I'll feel good tomorrow morning. I would love to see it. I would love to see one specific thing happen to one specific older man. Yes. We'd all like to see New York. Curtis Lee will become mayor. I was going to say in solidarity, don their red berets tomorrow morning.

2:20:43David Sims:A new era for this city dons. I'm going to be, well, you're going to know because you're at the wake up and you've been conscripted into building a feral cat colony in a park to encourage cat colonies to take care of the rat problem. But whatever we could talk about, it's me and November and Riley from Trash Future, and we talk about mares. And then I also do another show with my friend Clayton Ashley called Temporal Culture War, where we talk about the early 2000s while we watch Star Trek Enterprise. Wait, how do I not know about this show? That's like right up my alley. It's rude of you.

2:21:13Griffin Newman:It's called Temporal. We've been doing it for about a year. It is so funny to me, just to tangent it, and I'm sure you will agree, that they were like, We fucking need to go back to basics. The show will be a prequel. It will strip things away. It won't have complicated Star Trek because it's a prequel. It'll be about the Enterprise, the first one. Scott Bakula, we need to be really conservative here. Get the most ordinary straight arrow guy to play the captain. And then two episodes in, they're like, there's a temporal war happening with the 30th century. There's bug people. It's so complicated.

2:21:46They abandon the time war after a season and a half. because clearly UPN was like enough. It's because nine 11 happens. So the whole point of the show is we're watching it. And then every week we also talk about like the movies that came out that week, music TV, and also like the news that week in 2001 to 2005.

2:22:04David Sims:Yeah. And we're into like the second season right now. Um, but they drop all of it and it becomes 24 set in space, but it's like Republican star Trek. Yes. It's like, uh, there's a fictional man called Lawrence, Kansas. I say he's watching the show in his truck on a little TV. what's T-Pole up to these days? It is pronounced T-Pole. Fuck!

2:22:22Griffin Newman:T-Pole. Jalene Blaylock. I will say, I kept saying T-Pole on the show and one listener wrote in so angry at me and Clayton and now we have to say it a thousand times an episode to get it correct. I wish I could relate.

2:22:33David Sims:I simply never have been criticized online for mispronouncing words. I think Jalene Blaylock

2:22:37Griffin Newman:is truly one of those, like, you know, like, makes most of the money just, like, doing the very consistent Star Trek circuit. Like, persons. Gets nothing to do on that show. Yeah. And does so much with it. she's actually kind of astonishing I think she's good I like Tupac I like that character I'm always pro Vulcan so I love a Vulcan who's your favorite Vulcan? Tuvok I was gonna say Tuvok I fucking love that motherfucker the episode where he mind melds the Voyager episode where he mind melds with Brad Dourif and he goes crazy he's one of my favorite it's Brad Dourif Brad Dourif plays a serial killer who's like on the Voyager and then they're like we don't know Brad Dourif?

2:23:14Griffin Newman:no you must be thinking of someone different they would never cast him

2:23:16David Sims:to play a serial killer who goes crazy. Oh, God. He's really good. Remember the one where he comes back? He melds with Neelix? Of course.

2:23:25Griffin Newman:Tuvix? Tuvix? Of course. Do you know about Tuvix? It's Mitch Gorfine himself. Do you know about Tuvix? We talked about this in the one day. We talked about Neelix, who's a character on Voyager. Okay, I haven't finished that episode yet. You talk about... I want to make sure you talk about Voyager in that episode. But there's an episode of Voyager where Tuvok, who is the Vulcan on Voyager, and Neelix, who is the bizarre alien chef that they picked up while they're in the Delta Quadrant. With his four-year-old girlfriend. With a girlfriend who, yes, canonically is like three or four years old because she has a 10-year lifespan.

2:23:49Griffin Newman:He imprinted upon her? Let's not even get into it. Merge in a teleporter accident into one being called Tuvix. The Fly. It's like a mix of them, right? The Fly style. Which is kind of fun. And the episode is kind of about how everyone's like, honestly, kind of prefer Tuvix to either Tuvix or Tuvok or Delix. Like, kind of the best of both worlds with this guy. But then at the end of the episode, the doctor's like, so I figured out a way how to like separate them. And Janeway's like, great news. And Tuvix is like, oh, hi, that would kill me. Like, I'm a new being. Like, you can't kill me. Like, that's murder.

2:24:22Griffin Newman:Yeah. And Janeway's like, got it, got it, got it. Think we got to do it. And they do it. And then the episode just kind of ends with them being like, oh, that was kind of fucked up. And like, it's kind of never addressed again. Voyager rocks. Voyager is so good. I love Voyager. My project while I drew simplicity was I watched all of Star Trek. Yes. Hell yeah. All of it. From the beginning all the way through. Did you watch the animated show? I did not watch the 60s animated show.

2:24:45David Sims:I have never watched that and I've always thought I should do that someday. Would people prefer this podcast if it were hosted by Gravid?

2:24:54Griffin Newman:Kind of like Gravid. I mean, it's like, again, the iconic Bluey episode, Mini Bluey, in which Bluey paints Bingo Blue and is like, here's how to be Bluey and essentially be obnoxious. And the parents are like, God, this is so annoying. And then they're like, okay, well, there will be two Bingos. so bingo paints bluey brown and then they're like bingo so they're both being good and the dad's just like honestly this rocks and bluey is like that hurts my feelings and they're like oh sorry and the episode just ends it's so good that's good yes it's really good sorry had to discuss that um thank you for being oh do you watch uh bluey as a parent of young children uh i watch three episodes of bluey every single day i have seen every bluey so many times it is absolutely fucking crazy at this point i can do like the dialogue how many episodes are there in total There's about 150.

2:25:39Every parent I know is putting up me in 1998 watching The Simpsons numbers and watching Bluey. You're like, exactly correct.

2:25:45Griffin Newman:Exactly the same vibe. And honestly, Bluey is so good that I am never like, ugh. There's like three Bluey episodes where when my daughter picks it, I'm like, this one. Everything else good. What's up, Ben?

2:25:56David Sims:Well, the one where they explain how Bingo got his tattoos. It's a long stroke. It's a pretty good joke. It was okay. I was trying to think of shorthand for famously bad episode. Like a famous episode you wanted. A famous skip. Yeah.

2:26:07Griffin Newman:So links to all of Maddie's plugs.

2:26:10David Sims:Wonderful work. Good. Good work. Are available in the episode description. Thank you for producing this podcast, Ben. I also have a plug.

2:26:17Griffin Newman:Oh, I know what this plug is for. I've been seeing some IGs. It's the holiday season. It is, of course, the holiday season. This episode comes out on December 7th. So it's actually been about a week since Slow Christmas number five released on all streaming platforms.

2:26:36David Sims:Perhaps you've noticed shit slowing down around you. Oh. Oh. Oh. Hell yeah. Slow Xmas V. Yep.

2:26:45Griffin Newman:This year it's being served cold. Brr. What is that? Unlike the others? Bundle up and sip away them holiday season blues with wintry ethereal tunes.

2:26:56David Sims:Yummy. We'll love it. I like the implication that the other ones were too hot to touch.

2:27:04Griffin Newman:so a link to that album will be in the episode description as well and then lastly here at the end of the episode before you take us out Griffin we're just going to tack on at the end we a few months back when we were in LA we've mentioned it I think in past episodes we did we curated a

2:27:24David Sims:screening American Cinematheque friend of the fest we presented a Hudsucker Proxy and we just

2:27:29Griffin Newman:did a little intro. They were nice enough to record that intro. Oh, cool. And so we'll just add that here at the end of the episode. Enjoy that. This has been the end of our Coen's series. I think we did our rankings on the Buster Scruggs app. More of the pomp and circumstance

2:27:43David Sims:ending business. Did you rank your Ethan's? Yeah, here's my ranking of the Ethan, Trisha Cook films. Driveway Dolls,

2:27:50Griffin Newman:Honey Don't.

2:27:51David Sims:Weird. I actually have, in first, Driveway Dolls, and in second,

2:27:56Griffin Newman:Honey Don't. Haven't watched the Jerry Lee Lewis thing yet. My guess is it's probably in between the two. No, I put it third. Okay.

2:28:02David Sims:Now let's rank our solo Joel's quickly. At number one, I have The Tragedy of Macbeth. Oh, interesting. Me too. Okay.

2:28:09Griffin Newman:Okay. Next week, we are going to do an episode on the new James L. Brooks movie, Ella McKay.

2:28:14David Sims:Truly, of all the filmmakers we've covered who are still alive, the one I was least expecting would release another movie ever. Yeah, sure.

2:28:22Griffin Newman:Well, here it comes.

2:28:23David Sims:It's kind of an exciting treat. And then the following week after that.

2:28:26Griffin Newman:So this like indie project that's being put out by, I don't know, some street I've never heard of. Avatar colon Fire and Ash. Now, Maddie, I know you don't like those movies. Okay. Which is fine. I will keep seeing them in theaters as long as I live. Because I enjoy a spectacle. You've never vibed with them as much as some. You don't like them yet. I have problems with Mr. Cameron's approach. He's going to keep making them on one of these days. He's going to get you. Okay. I will say, watching the preview for the new one has me the most like, perhaps I will like this one. because you know what I think is pretty cool is Vareng Ash.

2:29:00Fire. Vareng Ash. As a former pyromania. Navi.

2:29:04Griffin Newman:Oh, it was recovered. Elapsed pyromania. I will then, I will actually, Griff, we should say, and then in January. I agree. We will be doing an episode on. Is this thing on? Wait a second. Is this thing? What's going on?

2:29:17David Sims:Is this thing on? Bradley Cooper's sad dad stand-up comedy divorce film. Yes, completing our kind of in-progress Bradley Cooper.

2:29:27Griffin Newman:Not completing. I assume we'll make more movies, but continuing. And then we're going to do an episode on Park Chenwook's No Other Choice. There's lots of blank check directors at this point putting out movies all around Christmas time.

2:29:37David Sims:It tends to happen this time of year.

2:29:39Griffin Newman:The timing is pretty good, though, because these things will hopefully have been expanded enough that people will be able to see them.

2:29:45David Sims:So December 28th is our one dark week every year, but we have a block of four episodes across five weeks that are all new releases. And then, of course, as everyone knows, as everyone has guessed online. Oceans are now battlefields. Yes. Harrison Ford is John Book. Dig up your dead poets because the next miniseries on main feed is Lynn Ramsey, you motherfuckers. You don't know shit. We're doing Lynn Ramsey next. Not Peter Weir, you motherfuckers. Peter Weir is after Lynn Ramsey.

2:30:16Griffin Newman:Peter Weir is after Prince William Ramsey. We planned this long ago when we found that Lynn was finally doing another movie.

2:30:22David Sims:One of, in my opinion, the best filmmakers alive. And I've been waiting.

2:30:25Griffin Newman:Griff has always said, whenever she does a movie, next, we're doing her. We're doing the five films, the five feature films from that wacky Scott, Lynn Ramsey. That wacky Scott. And then, indeed, we will be doing Peter Weir.

2:30:36David Sims:It is just made us feel so big and special and smart when people reading the tea leaves are like, so Weir is definitely next, right? And we're like, these fuckers don't even know. We're slipping in a quick five. They might know it. And then they'll know.

2:30:48Griffin Newman:Fucking Marvin Cowler or whatever. Right.

2:30:50David Sims:Hey, fuck it.

2:30:51Griffin Newman:Since we're talking about 2026, over on the Patreon feed, we're going to be kicking off the year with a new commentary series. We are. Oh, that's true.

2:31:00David Sims:The films of Wizard of Oz. Of Oz. Oh. The Oz. They don't all have the wizard in them. Although I guess they all kind of do. I think they might all in some form or other. Does Return to Oz have one? I'm trying to have him. I think the wizard does not appear in Return to Oz. That might be the only one. But we are in a Patreon commentary series going to do Victor Fleming's The Wizard of Oz.

2:31:21Griffin Newman:Yes.

2:31:22David Sims:The Wiz. Yes. Return to Oz. Wicked and Wicked for Good. We are not revisiting Sam Raimi's Oz the Great and Powerful. You can check that out. Are you guys going to have the sphere? I ain't going to no sphere. Matty, I think we should.

2:31:35Griffin Newman:As much as I ethically support what's going on in this sphere. I think we should.

2:31:38David Sims:I just want to see Phil Dolan in it, my friend in yours. I hear he's so good in it. I hear his performance is so good. That harmonica. Zaslav's in there. He should have known. There's a part where he sings, I should have known about the wizard. All right. We need to record ads.

2:31:53Griffin Newman:I need to go to the bathroom and then go home to my loving family.

2:31:55David Sims:James Dolman being friends with Harvey Weinstein and then releasing a pop song about his guilt. Do you know about this? I do, but we have to be done. I should have known. I think we could go another 20 minutes. Maddie, thank you for being here. Absolutely. Oh my God. Thank you so much for having me on. This is such a blast. You're the best. Maddie, I love the show so much. So it's very important for me that I got to come on.

2:32:12Griffin Newman:That's very nice of you. And it was good to have you on. I promise you will return to the show not to do Honey Don't. There will be better films in your future or at least more interesting.

2:32:21David Sims:David, you can't promise that we won't ask Maddie to do Honey Don't again. It's possible we'll do another Honey Don't. You never know. You can't promise that. A Honey Double Dip. It could always happen.

2:32:29Griffin Newman:Maybe we revisited Clifford. And this film's definitely as good as that one. Maybe we just have to go back and do Honey Don't.

2:32:38David Sims:Yeah. uh Maddie you contributed an art piece to our uh Decade of Dreams art show earlier I did a really good uh bits uh retired bits hanging up the rafters yeah piece I just wanted to make sure we vocally thanked you on microphone for that oh thank you that was such an incredible blast to draw it was so much fun I really enjoyed drawing some buried jeans yeah yeah uh everyone should uh read your books and listen to your podcast thank you uh and thank you all for listening and I hope you all have fun uh checking out these new releases with us and then uh lynn ramsey in january uh and then of course we're never covering peter weir thank you all for listening and as always the honey don't is about vaginas

2:33:24Griffin Newman:without further ado please welcome from blank check griffin bett and marie

2:33:34David Sims:Whoa, whoa, oh wait. Should we be color coordinating Hulu Loops with mic cords? Yeah, okay. I don't think there's a purple one. Ben's got the, I got yellow. We could maybe can blind a couple colors. Hello everybody. Now that we got that important business out of the way, thank you so much for coming here. Thanks guys.

2:33:59David Sims:Maybe gonna try to attempt to do the first three-person hula hoop live intro simultaneous performance.

2:34:07Griffin Newman:I don't think that we had planned for wired mics. That was not a consideration.

2:34:12David Sims:We'd ask for headsets, so we'd ask for headset mic.

2:34:15Griffin Newman:Okay, maybe let's try and get a little bit of distance. Okay, maybe this is the solution. This is great.

2:34:19David Sims:We're just working it out on the fly. Marie's husband said, however good you think you are at this, it's a lot harder than it seems. And I said, I think I'm terrible at this. So it's going to be a real... I read that you're supposed to put one foot in front of the other. And then keep your top part of your body straight. And then just kind of like this. It's a this thing? It's a hip thing. Yeah. It's in the hips. All right, on three, one, two, three.

2:34:56That was really good, guys. That was really good.

2:35:00David Sims:It's kind of an eight-go-offer situation. About as well as I thought it would. Spent$45 on this. We bought them at the Groves. It was kind of a markup situation. There was an activation happening pre-perfume samples. Who here has seen this movie before? And let's do the inverse. Who has never seen this film before? You'll have the hula hoop thing later. Yeah. It'll make sense. It's only a spoiler if you acknowledge that I just told you it was a spoiler. It seemed random. This is one of my favorite movies of all time. One of my ten favorites, which with our very, very normal listenership online.

2:35:42David Sims:And when I say this, by the way, all of you are cool in Norway. I'm talking only about the Redditors who aren't in the room. But I've seen a lot of preemptive is Griffin really gonna fucking rank Hudsucker above Fargo and no country? Well, you said on the episode, you were like... I've said this many times. It's my favorite, but I wouldn't say it's their best. They made Fargo. I know they made Fargo. I'm not an idiot. These guys have made like 15 masterpieces. But this is a movie that is just so completely on my wavelength. It is, it's just like the pop song I can't help but dance to. I saw it for the first time in 35mm at MoMA in New York City.

2:36:25David Sims:And I went into seeing it being like, this is the one everyone thinks sucks, right? And from the first shot, even those of you who have seen this before, if you haven't seen a big screen, if you haven't seen it on celluloid, I do think it is like genuinely one of the great film craft movies. It is like the one time they got to work on a really big budget with entirely analog models and sets and costumes and practical Optically printed effects and all these things that just kind of make me cry thinking about them existing We used to make things in this country and

2:37:02David Sims:Here this film was of course shot in North Carolina It does feel like a New York movie which is funny because we're in LA and Lebowski is our current episode and that's an LA movie but I believe The Crow which we just covered on our Patreon also was shot in North Carolina The same set? The Super Mario Brothers movie I think at least one of the Ninja Turtles there was this weird rush in the 80s and 90s to build your fake shitty New York in North Carolina using these same things, and in particular, this movie, the Coen brothers tricked Joel Silver into getting Warner Brothers to give him a bunch of money to build these buildings that were reused like a trillion times.

2:37:50David Sims:So if you're like, man, I can't believe they let the Coen brothers build these crazy sets. Joel Schumacher stole them. Batman scaled these buildings many times. You know, even since our episode came out, I've had a lot of people be like, I really just, I frankly don't get this movie. And I think it's a really interesting one because it seems to split people on for Coen Brothers fans who have some hang-ups with them, they feel like this movie is emblematic of, oh, are they just pastiche? Is it just style? Is it just effect? And is this movie really cynical? Is this movie making fun of all of its characters?

2:38:31David Sims:Is it all a lark? And I have the read that I think this is quietly their most sincere film. I think they mean everything in it. I think it's a fascinating midpoint between them and Sam Raimi, who they came up with. It is what they tried to do with Crime Wave, obviously one of the best movies ever made.

2:38:46Griffin Newman:Love that movie.

2:38:49David Sims:But making a tribute to the kind of films they grew up loving, but infusing it with a modern sensibility and combining different eras and different styles. And I think it is, at the end of the day, a very open-hearted movie about what if the dumbest guy had the best idea and it's a really really fun conceit for a film to have the entire audience know that he's right from the beginning and if you don't know i'm talking about you'll you'll learn uh soon enough but um thank you to the folks at american cinematheque uh awesome to be here but griffin i mean speaking of sincerity

2:39:24Griffin Newman:and a really good idea yeah um actually brought a prototype out here with me today right um So just give me one sec.

2:39:31David Sims:Yeah, Ben's trying to launch a new product here tonight. Okay.

2:39:40Griffin Newman:So what we have here is a chain for bad kids. And you can do a lot of stuff with it. I mean, you look cool. And just quick show of hands. You can kind of swing it around. I mean, there's endless possibilities. It seems easy to scale, you know?

2:39:58David Sims:Yeah.

2:39:58Griffin Newman:Oh, for sure.

2:40:00David Sims:Quick show of hands now that the chain's been brought out. Who has never listened to the podcast Blink Check?

2:40:06Griffin Newman:Again, once you see the movie, you'll get it.

2:40:10David Sims:Maybe not the chain part, but everything else. Thank you for being here. Thank you, everyone.