The Big Lebowski with Seth Rogen

7:27David Sims:Our podcast is called Blank Check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin. I'm David. Sometimes there's a man and sometimes there's a man. It's a podcast about filmographies, directors who have massive success early on in their careers and are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want. Sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce baby. This is a mini series on the films of Joel and Ethan Cohen together and separately. Today, we were talking about The Big Lebowski, which I'm struggling to think if there's another example of this, which is a blank check cash in off at the time their biggest success.

8:02David Sims:Sure. That is seen as an absolute bounce and then retroactively has become unquestionably their biggest film.

8:09Seth Rogen:To the point that if you even suggest it isn't, you're a liar.

8:12David Sims:You are. You're just like, that is the fucking liar.

8:17Griffin Newman:It's just weird that you're like, if you sit down and think about the Coens for a sec, you're like, yeah, you know, the crime movies, fucking Raising Arizona, Fargo, No Country. You can think about that for a day and then you'd be like, oh shit, they made the Big Lebowski on top of all that. They created a whole other universe of fans and excitement. It is just the movie that everyone knows. We have this...

8:38Seth Rogen:You have the dude. I'm looking at him right now. We have the dude.

8:42David Sims:I'm glad you noticed because that was a new addition to the Menagerie. I recently purchased a dude. Wait, where's the dude?

8:47Griffin Newman:I got a little dude. Oh, there he is. I see him. God, he's fucking like a foot tall.

8:51David Sims:What the hell is that thing? You know, toys come in different scales.

8:55Seth Rogen:You collect a bit, right? I do have a lot of stuff. Yes. Yes, very much so. I was going to ask how articulatable he is, which is a real toy term. Not great. And boy, am I thrilled. And I'll tell you what I'm most excited about now. Not as many points of articulation.

9:07David Sims:Nope. I am excited by the fact that for the first time this conversation is not causing David to hit his head on the table. He can't shut it down when you're asking questions. When I bring it up, he goes like, oh, fuck, no, I gotta get out of here.

9:21Griffin Newman:My daughter took a toy from this shelf.

9:23David Sims:I've been meaning to ask you,

9:24Griffin Newman:what did she take? Do you know? Have you noticed? I was wondering, because you got 4 ,000 toys on this shelf. I'm aware, but I keep a Rolodex and I've not been able to. She took, I believe it is Anakin Skywalker's Force Ghost in tiny, cool, great. I thought you were going to say four skin. Yes, you took his four skin. People forget his Waddo nose. The Anakin Skywalker is canonically uncircumcised until Attack of the Clones. And George Lucas made a limited run. And Dooku.

9:50David Sims:He was born with a Waddo nose downstairs because Waddo's his father. And then as part of the Jedi ritual.

9:57Seth Rogen:What's funny, Griffin, is the only other time I met you in person, I think, is you were dressed as Waddo. He was. There's our Waddo.

10:04David Sims:We had been messaging and then you very kindly did the George Lucas talk show and you came backstage and I was already in the costume. You were already Watto. And I went, this is a very embarrassing way to me.

10:14Seth Rogen:I've had that. I used to present at the, they used to do, I don't even know, do they still do the MTV Movie Awards and stuff like that? Do they still do it?

10:21David Sims:I think they're now the MTV Movie and TV and Text Awards. Oh, right. Movie and Meme Awards.

10:29Seth Rogen:Most memeable meme. and I've I used to do this like it's so hard to get a laugh at those things I would do the dumbest shit ever and I so I remember one year like my bit was that like I was all like roided out or something and so I was in this like insane giant muscle body suit and I remember meeting for the first time so many people I was a big I met like Kendrick Lamar for the first time and all these people as I'm in is this you yes this giant you're with Zach giant stupid muscle body and I'm trying to just ignore him like hey big fan so nice to meet you this is part of a bit I'm doing a bit I haven't done it yet it's coming up

11:09Griffin Newman:please you have two MTV movie awards did you know that no you have one for best musical sequence in this is the end yeah and then one for best WTF moment in Neighbors I don't know what that was I don't know what that was

11:23Seth Rogen:David physically one of them is in our office I don't know what happened or the other one. You and Rose won it. So maybe Rose took it. That was the moment though.

11:33Griffin Newman:Was it me milking her maybe?

11:34Seth Rogen:It might have been milking her.

11:36Griffin Newman:That's a moment. If I had to choose a moment. That's a hashtag WTF moment. Hashtag WTF. I just love looking at the MTV because it's like the Oscars. It's like, yeah, we've handed out these awards for a hundred years. And the MTV was like, I don't know, every couple of years we're like, should we do WTF moments? They're like, forget it. Forget it. Don't do that anymore. They don't do best kiss. They're like, this is gross. Now they don't do best kiss. Now it's back.

11:54David Sims:yeah oh fuck what was I gonna say well who's our guest well I got a lot of things to say here we've already established a lot on the table our guest today is Seth Rogen hey Seth and I'm gonna leave with the credits I was curious there's an account that does the cataloging of actors and how many times we've covered them on this podcast updated week to week and I was curious what the Seth Rogen blank check canon is I bet like we've got me a list of your credits okay my assumption is

12:19Seth Rogen:Steve Jobs in the Fablemans correct and that's it can you name the third one there's a Donnie not Donnie Darko. No. Not yet, although we'd love to do him. Is it an animated movie? It is. No.

12:29David Sims:It is. It is? It is. Sometimes people pretend it isn't. Really? That's my hint. And it was not covered as part of covering that director. We weirdly did it as a one-off. You're talking about The Lion King? I'm talking about The Lion King.

12:42Seth Rogen:Oh, the first one? The main scene. Right, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The Favreau Lion King.

12:47Griffin Newman:Yeah.

12:48Seth Rogen:I'm in that as well.

12:49Griffin Newman:Yeah, I forgot. I forgot you're in Donnie Darko. You're just mean at a bus stop in Donnie Darko. I'm in a few scenes. I kill Jenna Malone. I throw Jenna Malone.

12:57Seth Rogen:You're the murderer. And she gets hit by a car. Wow. Oh, Jesus. But then we also, we also on this podcast. Movies aren't, you should know it's not real. Wait a second. David, you of all people. Why did you do that to Steven Spielberg? You guys, you've done so many episodes.

13:13Griffin Newman:How does it feel that you are the architect of Steven Spielberg's like artistic career and that you, you know, fell in love with his mom?

13:21Seth Rogen:Yeah.

13:22Griffin Newman:Which made him make movies. Which made a movie. According to that movie.

13:25Seth Rogen:He restored him into it before that. But it seemed like he had inclinations to make, he was filming The Train before any of that stuff happened. You're right, you're right, you're right. But do you watch E.T.

13:33David Sims:and go like, thank God. Thank God I did that. I fucked this.

13:36Seth Rogen:Thank God I did that. Yeah. If it wasn't for me. Yeah. Making those choices. Yeah. None of this would have happened. Yeah, no, it's weird that that happened. It is.

13:51Griffin Newman:Did Spielberg say that like for that role,

13:53Seth Rogen:he's like it's this one's a weird one well you know what's funny is i actually feel like as we were filming i feel like he sort of had it contextualized one way and then as we were filming it and like bringing it to life he sort of started to maybe at times see how weird it was like like like i think in his head he's like yeah we were all on a camping trip and my mom and this guy are sort of like canoodling a little bit which i think like in your head is one way and then i think like as as we were actually recreating it right there was moments where i felt maybe i was projecting it but I felt him feeling like oh this is maybe more fucked up.

14:25Seth Rogen:It almost became

14:26David Sims:like a shutter island as he was actually forcing people to act.

14:29Seth Rogen:And I think it actually like changed the tone I think to his credit he like would go with it and like kind of changed the tone of the scene a little bit from being like I feel like in the script it was almost like cutesy and then when brought to life it was much more tragic. It's why not you know

14:43Griffin Newman:to be serious why that movie rocks because it is dark but not in like an over the top way.

14:49Seth Rogen:Yeah. It's even like the music and stuff like again it's one of those things where i mean it's it's a rare gift to have like john williams like score a movie score your face your score your face um and uh and yeah just to see like oh like even in my head i was like oh these scenes are so much more sad now with all this stuff but yeah it's weird the whole thing is weird i sat next to john williams at the oscars that year i talked to him for like five hours straight really that's incredible unbelievable yeah completely wrong yeah it was so cool one of the greatest like of that whole failman's experience like that was honestly one One of the coolest things was just like, because I didn't meet him throughout the whole process, really.

15:25Seth Rogen:And then I'm like, I show up at the Oscars. They're like, oh, you're sitting next to John Williams. And it was incredible. Does he get really annoyed when he loses? God fucking damn it. No, he genuinely just seemed out. He's all quiet on the Western front. He seems like. A tight fighter. Yeah. He kept punching the scene in front of him that Donnie Yen was sitting in. I was like, chill out, man. No, and it's sort of connected to this is I actually talked to him a lot about one of my other favorite sort of hapless detective films, The Long Goodbye. Amazing score. And does one of my favorite, it does something, it's funny because I've always loved how that movie takes the, they wrote a song, The Long Goodbye, and they use it in different genres in different times of the film.

16:10Seth Rogen:And like when they're in Mexico, there's like a funeral procession playing like sort of like a sad Spanish version of it. It's like a sort of Muzak version of it. Yeah, and like when they're in the elevator, and then the grocery store. There's like the Muzak version of it and all this stuff. And I asked, I was like, how did you guys think of that? And he was like, it was just an idea that me and Robert Altman came up with. And he's like, what's funny is we thought everyone was going to start doing it. Like we were like, this is going to be a thing. Like this is going to like create a like musical revolution in movies where people like realize you can start to do this.

16:42Seth Rogen:And then he's like, I think nobody ever did it ever again. But it's great. It's probably a pain in the ass. Yeah, probably hard.

16:47David Sims:I feel like I was trying to do a letterbox list once of movies where the same song is played multiple times and the context changes, which is a little different than the song changes. But it's still cool. Yeah. Something about Mary almost does a version of that.

17:03Seth Rogen:Yeah, with those guys in the tree, the singing guys. They kind of do.

17:08David Sims:They're kind of different songs, but they're kind of all evolutions of the same song.

17:11Griffin Newman:I have not seen that movie in like 25 years. Do you know that movie is a 10 out of 10 knockout masterpiece?

17:15Seth Rogen:I remember loving it. I love them. That movie is one of like the most like revelatory experiences I had in a movie theater in my life.

17:23Griffin Newman:Mind blown. I feel like that's right before like you're in Hollywood, right? Like that's like a year before. Yeah. Yeah.

17:31Seth Rogen:And we were already like, I think writing super bad, but I remember seeing that and being like, oh my God, this is allowed. You can, we can push this so much further than I thought maybe we could. It's all that shot where you see his dick and balls. It's insane. Like that to me is like, it's like, there's the fucking like obelisk in 2001. And like, you know, there's like, to me that is like, deserves, like, as far as comedy goes, that is like one of the most like boundary pushing iconic shots. And then they do it five minutes in. And they're like, the joke is so clearly and it's so smart. And I love jokes that like play off of your expectations as an audience member, which is like, oh, the joke is that you're not going to see it.

18:14Seth Rogen:And that they keep describing this horrific thing. Right. And they say all these And everyone's describing it and everyone's... They're also describing it

18:21David Sims:in a way that sounds impossible where you're like, they couldn't physically show me this. They're describing, oh, the Frank's above the beam. Oh, Jake, the Zipper's all the way down. And it keeps getting

18:28Seth Rogen:closer and closer. And then they show it and then somehow with that like one brief image, you see everything that everyone's been talking about. like Chiodo Brothers

18:37David Sims:like puppet insert shot. But then the thing that's so revolutionary is from that moment on in the movie, you're like, they could show me anything.

18:44Seth Rogen:They could do anything. All bets are off.

18:46David Sims:Anything could be shown in any sliding scale of reality.

18:50Seth Rogen:It's like in a horror movie when you do something really scary up front and you're like, oh, the stakes are set. It's Drew Barrymore getting killed. Yeah, you're like, anyone can die at any minute.

18:57Griffin Newman:And in that movie, it's the same. It's funny that we're talking about that movie because that movie came out the same year as The Big Lebowski. It was the comedy hit of 1998. Right, it came out probably like, Well, Big Lebowski was March, so it came out in like the summer. Mary's June or July. It's July. But it's funny how, right, at the time everyone was like Big Lebowski. Everyone was like, no.

19:15David Sims:The next several years of comedy are people chasing Mary. That was the kind of like, in a way that I'd say 40-year-old Virgin was one of those. Hangover was one of those where it's just like, this is now the thing that everyone's chasing. This movie has come out, feels like it's like a shot from the dark. And now everyone wants to follow this trend. Mary was so revelatory for me. I went home and like young Sammy Fableman with the train set. Recreated the nut shot. Experimenting. With the zipper in the mirror. and your nuts up. Yeah, almost got it. To answer your question, the Big Lebowski action figure.

19:50David Sims:Oh, yeah, sure. There you go. Oh, Ben put it down on the desk. So it was this is from 2008. It's from the 10th anniversary of the movie, which I really feel like was when the Big Lebowski had become mainstream and Universal was like, we can put this on anything. We can sell everything with Lebowski quotes on it. It's meant to sort of be a riff on like a fucking kid robot urban vinyl figure. Yeah, it looks a little. So that's why it's limited articulation and kind of caricature. It's almost more of a statue. But I argue it's in a little bit of a weird middle ground. It is. It's a little too solid.

20:25Seth Rogen:Yeah. It doesn't have the roto vinyl construction. It's not quite artful enough to be like an art piece, but it's not articulatable enough to be a fun toy.

20:32David Sims:It's just the arms and the head. Yeah. David, you're such a philistine. You don't know what you're talking about. I know I don't. I just won a best offer for the Walter, which I think is a little better. Okay.

20:42Griffin Newman:Just to complete my thing. It is good. You have all these. Can you describe to me what the Anakin ghost is from? They're called Disney Dorables. Disney Dorables.

20:52David Sims:They're like an inch tall. They're like an inch tall. They're like a Dorables, but you call them Dorables because they come in a little cardboard blind box where it's like, I got to tell you, like a bear brick.

21:01Griffin Newman:Star Wars characters up there. Yeah. But you have three ghosts. You have Yoda, right? It was a special set. It came in a tin. Of the dead. That looks like a, yes, it's all the ghosts. And she took him and she's like, who's this? And I'm like, I don't fucking know. I don't know. Well, that's the thing. It looks, it's young. So I said it was Obi-Wan because I was just kind of thrown. It's not Jake Lloyd. It's not Jake Lloyd. Well, he didn't die when he was,

21:22Seth Rogen:it'd be weird if he died and he came back as a ghost as Jake Lloyd. He fucking dies in the pod like small, but just kills him.

21:28David Sims:If that's, if George Lucas had gone fucking glorious bastards on episode one, the movie ends with Anakin being murdered and you're like,

21:34Griffin Newman:what are these movies? That would have been cool. So she calls it Obi-Wan. It's a prize toy for her. it's like a big deal she knows who Obi-Wan is well she knows that thing's called Obi-Wan which of course he's not actually called Obi-Wan but whatever I'm willing to let that slide because he's at least a force ghost yeah and I think it's cute that she says Obi-Wan I do too

21:52David Sims:and I think if he was going to take one that's probably the one I least felt the need to keep it's just funny that she was confronted

21:57Griffin Newman:with this wall of toys and she was like

22:00David Sims:but also Ehrlich's son was taking all of those I think we were playing with that were they possibly upstairs what is the total recall thing that was the DVD release of Total Recall was packaged in like Mars. It was when Lionsgate was like we're going to really fucking experiment with the form and I think the big thing was they paid Schwarzenegger like half a million dollars to do the commentary.

22:25Seth Rogen:Oh, that's funny. Is it amazing? It's good. I love that. I love that movie. Schwarzenegger's just smoking a cigar

22:30David Sims:and Verhoeven's making a bunch of sexist comments.

22:33Seth Rogen:Sounds amazing to me. But it felt like It's right up my alley.

22:37David Sims:Is this going to be the new thing of like big salaries for commentaries? Right, right, right. And then Lionsgate was like, everything's packaged weird. Basic Instinct came with a pen that looked like the ice pick. Really? Yeah. Yes, I remember that. This is the thing, speaking of collecting, I think about this a lot. And my aspiration is to someday be someone who may be married. I remember an interview with you years ago where you said, the rule I have with my wife is if it's a character she doesn't know it can't be in the living room.

23:04Seth Rogen:Yeah. Yeah, there had to be like a communal, like I have an office where like I had a big collection of this stuff. Memorabilia? Memorabilia. Yeah, sure. Collectibles. Yes. And yeah, once we moved in together, what could be in like communal spaces became a real topic of conversation.

23:23David Sims:Right, like the Hulk can be there, but Doc Samson can't.

23:26Seth Rogen:Yes, exactly. But then it eventually just sort of segued into us like both sort of buying like things together, which actually became much nicer. We started collecting art. We would go to little art shows and buy things together, which was nice. We found a way to bond over our collecting. What a sweet story. Yes, it's lovely. Like the Fablemans.

23:49David Sims:So, your friend, David Krumholtz.

23:51Seth Rogen:Yes, was on this podcast. It was a great wonder on the Seven of the Women. That was amazing.

23:58David Sims:One of our most normal episodes. We are eager to have him on again. Krumholtz keeps texting me, I can't believe you guys haven't done Wolfgang Peterson yet. We should do Wolfgang. How have you done Wolfgang? I gotta do Wolfgang. Who does he, what's his Wolfgang? Any Wolfgang. All right. It started with I missed Wolfgang, right? You guys must have done him years ago. That's funny. Out of the blue I got that text. You must have done Wolfgang. We haven't and now every couple of months it's angerite. You still haven't done Wolfgang? He can do Enemy of Mind.

24:25Seth Rogen:Is Ronan Wolfgang Peterson? No, that's John Frankenheimer. I get Wolfgang Peterson and John Frankenheimer confused. They were in a similar place in the 90s. Das Boot? Das Boot is Wolfgang. That's his, like, you know, entree. Perfect Storm? Yeah, Wolfgang.

24:41Griffin Newman:Perfect Storm, Air Force One. Air Force One. In the line of fire. In the line of fire. He actually, fuck, should we do Wolfgang? He does kind of ride. Trumholtz booked for every Wolfgang episode. One of them. And, of course, he did NeverEnding Story. Yeah, if we did him the NeverEnding Story, we could do, like, a 10-hour episode. A NeverEnding episode. Yeah, dude, you know you always complain that these episodes are too short? Oh, yeah, that's me always complaining.

25:04David Sims:But then you message shortly after that and say, hey, Krumholtz got me into the podcast. I've been listening. Yes. And then we've been messaging back and forth since then. You did George Lucas very kindly. We've been trying to find the right thing to do. You did a letterbox top four on some red carpet. Some red carpet. And you named this. Yeah. Alongside Clueless, which we have just covered. Yeah, which was a great episode as well. Thank you. And I'm trying to remember what your other two were.

25:28Seth Rogen:I don't even remember. I kind of threw them out. I usually say The Last Detail because it offsets the lack of fanciness in my other choices. And I often say Terminator 2, which might have been the other one. I mean, hey. Might have been the other one. Last Detail, Terminator 2. That's a killer four.

25:42Griffin Newman:That's a killer four. That's a pretty good four. I'm really a child of the 90s. Chase had really good. Now I'm watching the entire studio cast. Chase has great taste. Oh, and Catherine had really good.

25:52Seth Rogen:Catherine Han also has really good.

25:54David Sims:Yeah, I watched those two.

25:55Seth Rogen:Yeah, they...

25:55David Sims:Last Detail is kind of... Feels like a big Cohen inspiration in a lot of ways.

26:00Seth Rogen:Well, I mean, I think if you look at... I mean, The Last Detail and The Big Lebowski and Superbad and Pineapple Express also, there's a lot of similarities in those movies. And it's like not a coincidence. Like, we were really inspired. And we loved The Big Lebowski.

26:15Griffin Newman:Did you guys see it like in theaters? I definitely did not. I was remembering. So I was 12 when this came out. How old? You're a couple years old.

26:22Seth Rogen:I was 16, I think.

26:24Griffin Newman:So you must have seen in theaters?

26:25Seth Rogen:No. What's funny is I didn't. Like, it looked... It's because the whole marketing campaign for it... Which was, like, bad. ...was fucking crazy. Right. And they really leaned into, like, the fantasy sequences. The fantasy and the bowling. Like, a lot of the marketing was about the bowling, and it was, like, the women with the bowling things on their heads. You were like, is this pink poster? And the poster was crazy. It gives you nothing. I actually remember going to school, and some of my friends having seen it and they're like, it's a stoner. He's so sweet. It's a stoner detective movie. I was like, what?

27:02Seth Rogen:And they were like, it's like a stoner movie and he's like caught in this big funny thing and there's these people that are cutting toes off and I was like, oh, this sounds funny. And then I remember watching it and being like, oh, this was like the worst marketed movie in the entire fucking world basically. And yet, you're like, how do you market this? I just want to point out,

27:20Griffin Newman:This was the British poster, which is even worse. It's just the two of them. With a toe. With a toe. With a toe. With a toe. They really tried to push like a girl's toe gets cut off. They didn't know what to do with this. Which like, why would anyone? And it was rated 18 in Britain because John Goodman bites someone's ear off. That's crazy. And the British rating board, like remember Mike Tyson had just been biting. I was going to say, we don't want anyone biting ears.

27:42Seth Rogen:It was a sensitive time for ear biting. The children are going to be biting ears in the playground.

27:46Griffin Newman:It's like a child's play too. Right. That's really. So I couldn't see it in theaters. And so I, too, probably discovered it, as Seth did, like on video, like a two or a year. I saw it right when it came out on video.

27:58Seth Rogen:I remember by the time it was on video, it had gotten out that it was actually a cool movie.

28:05Griffin Newman:I probably saw it around 2003. Which I feel like that is when its cult status had been completely cemented. It became a college thing. And by the time I got to college in 2004,

28:17Seth Rogen:I moved to LA in 1999 and I remember going and hanging out at that bowling alley a lot because Is it still there? No, it was knocked down but they all those like neon stars were like made for the movie but they left them there. That's cool. I love that. Hollywood Star Lanes. Yeah, Hollywood Star Lanes and so and they would have like you know like Buck 99 white Russians, basically, and which is not a drink you should drink a lot of by any stretch of the imagination because it's mostly milk, milk and vodka. And so but we would go there all the time and we would go bowling and we would drink white Russians.

28:59Seth Rogen:And we just like because we love the movie. Like so like there was a group of us were fans at that time and enough people were fans at that time that there was like a little subculture people that like would go to that bowling.

29:14David Sims:But I was going to say, at that moment in time, that's almost more like the Popeye Malta village of like, what are we going to tear this down? Yeah, we got to leave it. Let's just market to the people who did like this weird movie. Yeah. Versus if that place had stayed open another five years. Oh, it would have become like a... It would have gotten landmark status.

29:29Seth Rogen:Yes, it would have been insane. But it was literally knocked down by the time the movie had like a big... Yeah, because it wasn't hard to get a lane there.

29:36Griffin Newman:It wasn't a big line. It's huge. It's like 32 lanes. I want to go to Jackie Treehorn's house, which has been in a ton of movies. Oh, I've been there. I was going to ask if you've been there. Does someone own it? There you go. It's called the Sheets Gold Stig House

29:47Seth Rogen:by John Lautner, who designed all the homes in the studio we film in are John Lautner. That's what I was going to say. They're the exact trio. It feels like where you live. Exactly. They're the same architect. But it's one of the most, this is one of the most famous houses in LA. And it's not on the beach in Malibu as they make it appear to be. Right. They walk from the beach to... Yeah. Which is pretty clever how they shoot it. But it's actually overlooking the city. It has an amazing view. and is, yes, this incredible concrete house with this very kind of famous like honeycomb concrete roof and these like built-in.

30:20Seth Rogen:Yeah, it's got this roof

30:22Griffin Newman:with these little skylights, like these tiny fucking sides. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

30:24Seth Rogen:It's an amazing house. It's really, really cool. And this guy, the guy who built it, who commissioned it from John Lautner still lives in it. And he's wild. Okay. It's like a kooky old dude who like mostly rents out the house for like movies and photo shoots and stuff like that. He's a big like - I'm glad it isn't like

30:42David Sims:Conor McGregor owns it now.

30:44Seth Rogen:No, exactly. The Nelk boys. It's not. No, it's the actual Goldstein. The guy. Yes, James Goldstein.

30:54Griffin Newman:He's like a guy who goes to Laker games. He's a rich guy. I've filmed there.

30:57Seth Rogen:I've done photo shoots there. I've done. But yeah, I filmed. I filmed there like a whole couple days with Will Ferrell on something once. And like it was amazing. Like it's one of the fun parts about shooting. Like you get to sort of like just be in these houses. Yeah. So like you sort of get to like experience what it's like to really occupy time in these amazing homes. And yeah, that house is truly amazing, but it's to me most famous from this movie. It's in a lot of other movies. I think it's in Charlie's I was going to say Charlie's Angels. I think they live in it. Is it Tim Rothwell's house?

31:26Seth Rogen:Maybe. No, he lives in the Chemosphere, which is another John Lautner house, which is, it looks it's like a house standing on a single pillar. Oh yeah, the one that's

31:36Griffin Newman:which is, it's Troy McClure's house in the Simpsons. Yes, there's another movie

31:43Seth Rogen:maybe a De Palma movie? I'm looking it up. Yes, it's Body Double. Body Double is also shot in the Chemosphere house.

31:50Griffin Newman:Yeah. Correct. Oh, my God. All good houses. All good houses. So wait, so where's your studio house? What's that one called?

31:56Seth Rogen:That one is on Jeremy Scott, the guy who owned Moschino, the fashion line, now lives in it. It's in the hills, right? And Silver, the one we shot the Sarah Polly episode in is called the Silver Top House. and the one that Catherine O 'Hara lives in is another... With the pool. With the pool, yeah. Is another Watner house. They're all amazing houses and they're very cinematic and that's why we wanted to film in them because they are like in a lot of movies that we thought would be like cinematically kind of full circle. Also, the best thing about this thing

32:31Griffin Newman:is that it looks good. I mean, you're

32:33Seth Rogen:very funny and it's brilliant. Those are amazing spaces

32:37David Sims:to explore in real time. Oh, fully.

32:40Seth Rogen:Yeah. Yeah, and they're designed in such a way that they're meant to be walked through. And so, like, they really have this, like, compression and expansion and, like, unconventional layouts that sort of are fun to unravel and sort of, as you turn a corner, reveals a whole new space. And, yeah, we really, like, piggybacked off of the design of these houses.

33:02David Sims:I will say this. I have talked in the 10 years of doing this podcast, A Decade of Dreams. I've talked greasy about the city of Los Angeles. You mean you should talk to LA? Sure. When I go to LA, people are like, we know you hate it here. And I'm like, oh God, I built that reputation for myself. A lot of that is very defensively as a young man trying to work in the entertainment industry being like, I want to stay in New York. A lot of people have that.

33:24Seth Rogen:For years. I've seen that.

33:25David Sims:I've seen a lot of that. I feel like this is dissipated now. Post-pandemic. But I had like 10 years of people being like, are you not serious about your career? And I was just like, I kind of still want to live here. I need to be

33:37Seth Rogen:you can totally live in New York and have a career

33:39David Sims:yes that was my as you've proven

33:41Seth Rogen:as an employed housed man yes he's housed he's housed but like

33:47David Sims:I love I am housed I love the studio I think it's an incredible show it's like a beautiful panic attack when I watch it I'm like these are all the reasons I don't want to live in LA the way this show feels it's this these are all my anxieties when I watch Big Lebowski I'm like this is everything I love about LA

34:03Griffin Newman:it's a real love letter to LA maybe to a slightly bygone LA but from similarly neurotic

34:09Seth Rogen:it's the LA I actually moved into like it could not be more yeah like because I moved to LA in 1999 so like I moved into the Big Lebowski's LA truly

34:19Griffin Newman:I think about Knocked Up and like how you guys live in that big house with the pool that's like shitty like the Birthday Boys house right and it's like that's what I that was my old impression of LA is like yeah you can kind of there's burnouts and weirdos and like it's so spread out that you can find all these pockets of people like the dude who just kind of like, what do they do all day? I don't know. The drive around like doesn't fucking do anything. Right. But it's like,

34:42David Sims:I'm allergic to Entourage LA. Oh, yes. That's a bad LA. Studio LA is the LA I have the love-hate relationship with.

34:48Griffin Newman:Wait, Entourage? That showed a bad vibe for you? It's kind of aggro? I love the characters just to be clear.

34:53David Sims:And I endorse all of their actions. I love the characters and their choices.

34:55Seth Rogen:Their viewpoints. It's just the cars and the buildings. And their work.

34:58David Sims:Most importantly, I admire their artistic work. Exactly. No, but this movie, I'm like, this is all the stuff I like in LA when I go visit and I hang out with my friends who are like this. Who are unemployed. And they take me to places like this. And the Knights have these vibes minus the conspiracy. Yeah.

35:15Seth Rogen:Yeah. No, it's exactly, yeah. Like going to Ralph's in the middle, like that to me was a real quintessential thing, which might be a visual reference to The Long Goodbye now that I think of it. Because it also starts with him at the grocery store. But I think that that was to me, that was like a sort of like a stoner in L.A. in like being at Ralph's at three in the morning and like an empty store like is such a familiar feeling to me. Well, so much of like I would do my grocery shopping at two in the morning. Exactly. I probably did.

35:48David Sims:so much of Long Goodbye has that of like this tiny figure in this big wide frame just wandering around mumbling to himself doing banal tasks

35:58Seth Rogen:yeah the movies are are inextricably linked to one another and it's funny because like it is funny because I feel like Lebowski's kind of viewed as like I don't know if satire is the right word but sort of like a yeah like a comedic take on these self aware yeah a more self aware take on these detective movies.

36:18David Sims:you could place into that type of story.

36:20Seth Rogen:And The Long Goodbye is also sort of like, and he's smart in that, I guess, is the only difference that he's like a little more capable maybe, but like, it very much is a similar vibe where it's like, it's sort of happening to him. Yes, it's sort of happening to him. He sort of doesn't quite get what, he's sort of a step behind a little bit all the time. He sort of has, he's not like smoking weed, I don't think, throughout the whole movie, but he seems kind of stoned and out of it throughout the movie, basically. Yeah. I mean,

36:45David Sims:Sims and I are both very big Altman people and he was like a big turnkey. Do you like The Long Goodbye

36:50Griffin Newman:more than The Big Lebowski? You probably do. I probably do. I've seen The Big Lebowski like a hundred times. My whole thing with it is it's just sort of one of those it's very comforting. Beyond that, I put it on last night. I put it on the disc. It's so gorgeous. It looks so good.

37:08Seth Rogen:One of the best looking comedies.

37:09Griffin Newman:Right. True of any Cohen movie. Obviously, their movies always look good.

37:12Seth Rogen:Roger Deakins. It's so stunning

37:15Griffin Newman:to look at for, and especially for a comedy.

37:17David Sims:It is so rewarding. We also just did our Drive Away Dolls episode very out of order. And watching these two back to back is kind of...

37:23Seth Rogen:Yeah, what happened? What'd they do?

37:26Griffin Newman:Enjoy that movie a lot. It's a cute movie, but you missed the like lush, like, yeah, I mean... Yeah. Do you think that's a choice? I think so. I think that's always a time. We'll get to it in 10 episodes. Yeah, just to preview it. I break it down. I think it's a little bit the movie being like, don't take us seriously. Like, we're having fun. It's silly, but I don't know.

37:45David Sims:But that is the magic. And people always say this, right? Of like, you can't make a comedy look too good or it stops being funny. There's this adage that I disagree with.

37:53Seth Rogen:I disagree with that.

37:53David Sims:Yes, and I think a lot of your work has been like a rebuke to that. But there is that sort of narrative sometimes of like, it just needs to be clean, bright, wide shots. Light everything as bright as you can so you can see all the jokes. Or just fucking talking heads, like cross coverage.

38:06Seth Rogen:Well, that's the thing about Mary, like, effect, I would say, is like, and Dumb and Dumber and a lot of those movies are just like, bright bright bright bright bright bright colors clueless i mean honestly and that movie i'd say actually did it with like a creative intention in mind i agree like they weren't just like bright like there was i think a lot of reasoning behind why that was a good choice for that specific movie i agree but i think as a result oh yeah i mean i remember when we were shooting for your virgin i was just i remember at one time like coming up and giving judd like notes on how i thought we make the frame more interesting and he looked at me like i had lost my fucking mind like literally looked at me like i was a crazy person yeah and he was like make the frame more interesting like he's like as long as you can see the boner like we're good like i think the boner read in widescreen and full screen yeah i think we're okay yeah and it's funny because when we actually made Superbad.

39:08Seth Rogen:Superbad has like a grain. Well, yes, and it's shot. Greg like shot it, you know what I mean? Like it's not all cross coverage like he would do in the store. There's like, it was very designed. One shot will take you to this line and then a new shot will pick it up for these lines. And I remember there was like some very heavy conversations that were had where Judd was just like, why are you not just cross? Like you need to just cross cover this. And And Mottola was like, no, that's not what I'm doing on this movie. I will do it for some scenes, but that's not what I'm just going to do. And blocking is the thing where you feel it the most.

39:48Seth Rogen:It's when the characters don't move. And this movie has a lot of great blocking. The Big Lebowski is an excellently blocked film. And the characters move in a very elegant way that serves the timing and the comedy and the scenes in like a really dynamic way, which I think is why it's not boring, even though it's like largely people talking in different rooms. Right, and not light on action often.

40:12David Sims:So much of the self-perpetuating problem is you get into these zones where comedies have a lack of blocking because people are so worried about getting the correct amount of coverage. Exactly, to edit it.

40:23Seth Rogen:You don't want the amount of movement

40:25David Sims:and readjustment of positions that will cause more angles versus something like this where you just see that the Coens and the Deacons are like, these three actors are locked in. Yes. We can get this in a three shot in which they move six times and we only have to punch in for like two specials.

40:40Griffin Newman:I'm going to look at our research now, but like the thing I think of most and probably what baffled people initially, right? Like, hey, let's go see the new Fargo guys movie. Why is it about like stone bowlers doing nothing? Like those scenes where it's like, dude, Donnie, and Walter. And Donnie's right over the shoulder. And Donnie's over the shoulder and he keeps turning around. And they are all three having separate monologues essentially at different speeds interrupting each other at the same time without cuts I don't know how you do that and have it make any sense it makes perfect sense it's so funny that's like watching fucking

41:13David Sims:like Fred Astaire dance with a

41:14Seth Rogen:hat rack when I first moved to LA my manager had like a library in their office of like scripts like just hundreds of scripts and I one of the first things I did was I got the script for the Big Lebowski because I wanted to see how those scenes were like literally laid out And they are written exactly as they are performed in the movie to like the half word. Right. So they have it.

41:41Griffin Newman:It's not like three columns of dialogue.

41:43Seth Rogen:It's like telling you exactly when the interruption comes and when it goes back to the other person. And I remember reading it being like, oh, my God. These guys plotted this out into a microscopic rhythm. Right. But then I was like, oh, and that's why they could shoot it in a three shot. Because they're not finding it. And it felt improvisational to me. And I, even on Freaks and Geeks, was the only thing I was making at that time. But we did a lot of improv and cross coverage and stuff. So that's sort of how I assumed you had to capture that sort of like naturalistic, interrupt-y idea. But then I was like, oh, no, these guys just wrote it.

42:20Seth Rogen:They actually broke it down. And the actors just did it. And that was very eye-opening for me. but I think it's why, yeah, it's why the movie looks, is allowed to look good. I mean, I feel like I will now always

42:32David Sims:envision the straw man exec characters in my mind as the studio characters, but you just imagine people looking at the, like, the shooting schedule for this and being like, guys, so your plan is the only way to get this sequence is for the actors to get it perfect. Yeah, exactly. There's no contingency here. The only way this works is you get a take where everyone nails it. That's not allowed. And that's like terrifying to people. Yeah, they don't like it. Which is why they're just like. As somebody who's done that,

43:01Seth Rogen:they don't like that. I can tell you that. They don't love that.

43:03David Sims:But it's the stuff that makes Coen Brothers movies feel like, how did this fucking happen? Yeah. That everything is so perfectly constructed and also feels kind of loose and miraculous.

43:13Griffin Newman:Do you want to say something, Benny?

43:14David Sims:Well, I think we should get to the research.

43:16Griffin Newman:Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I have a little surprise. Oh, yeah.

43:19David Sims:I noticed you've covered something on a table with a shining blanket.

43:23Griffin Newman:Yes. I brought the accoutrement to make a white Russian

43:27Seth Rogen:we should do it we have to

43:29David Sims:Seth did text me if there aren't white Russians in the studio I'm leaving

43:33Seth Rogen:I had to do it there better fucking be white Russians

43:37Griffin Newman:Ben was trying to surprise and then I arrived at the studio as he was arriving and I was like why do you have a bag of ice

43:42Seth Rogen:I was gonna do a whole thing some Caucasians I like how he calls them Caucasians

43:48Griffin Newman:alright well then for white Russians please do it Yeah.

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45:26David!

45:27David Sims:Yes? Bark, bark. Bark, bark. What's going on? It's the dog days of summer. Augie-dogie. August. Okay. It's the perfect time to hit reset before the autumn rush begins. And honestly, I'm stroking my chin here and I can't think of a better place to start than my closet.

45:45Griffin Newman:Uh-huh.

45:46David Sims:That's where I want to reset. That's why I love shopping at Quince.

45:50Griffin Newman:Yeah, because they're about fewer better pieces. Their clothes are made with premium materials and they're built to last, designed to ones you reach for day after day. So you don't need to overstuff your closet. I hate overstuffing my closet.

46:00David Sims:I think that's a fair thing. If you're still hanging on to the same worn out basics, and that's me, I'm loathe to reset and restart. Ben's now eyeballing my wardrobe. He's looking me up and down. These are some newer pieces from Quince because Quince makes it easy to upgrade which I need the encouragement to do. They have premium denim and tailored chinos from just$60 with the kind of perfect fit structure and high quality fabrics you'd expect from a luxury designer brand.

46:30Griffin Newman:Yep. I mean, I truly love Quince. You truly love them. You marry them. I've got like 15 polo shirts from them. Upgrade your everyday. Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers or go to quince.com slash check. Get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns now available in Canada and the UK too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash check

46:54Griffin Newman:I, as I told Ben, don't think I've had a white Russian since I was like 20 years old I haven't had one since I was at that bowling alley Right, they are so disgusting No offense to the drink I'm possibly about to sip I think I hate milk They taste good They're not a good drink to consume It'll fuck you, your stomach

47:13Seth Rogen:Well, being 20 and like, because when you're 20, you're just drinking to get drunk. So you're having like four or five or whatever is you're drinking. And then a white Russian is a disgusting thing.

47:21David Sims:Yeah, such a bad thing to ingest. Because it's doing other things to your body at the same time that are not cooperating

47:27Griffin Newman:with the drunkenness. I was at a bar with a girl in college. Humble brag. Yeah, and she told me like, oh, they do good white Russians here. And then the bartender asked what I wanted. I said like a white Russian. And he was like, get a real drink. Wow. And I never, ever ordered a white Russian again after that. Not that I would really want one. They're gross. They are kind of gross. So, okay. All right. I watch him carry.

47:52David Sims:You know what he's doing. He's making four white Russians. I watch him carry them in the movie. And every time my brain immediately goes to like, God, that glass is so dirty. Yes. It just looks gross as a drink.

48:01Griffin Newman:Why do you think he drinks white Russians? Do you think the cones are just like, that's funny? Like, that's a funny drink. Well, there is a dude. There is a dude. And we'll talk about that. There's kind of two guys. I've met one of them. One of them is the main guy, and you probably met that guy. I have met that guy. And does he drink white Russians? My assumption is yes.

48:19David Sims:My assumption is yes. Our friend Connor Adler, friend of the podcast, made a great point talking to him the other day that it's so funny that Fargo is like the pinnacle of their career up until this point, right? The anointment moment they win the Oscar. It's their biggest crossover hit.

48:35Griffin Newman:And it's one of the best movies. Oh, it's the best. Nothing wrong with it. We love Fargo. I do want to point out and JJ put this in the research and it is crucial to note Big Lebowski is a script they'd had for a long time and have been trying to make throughout the early 90s it was their pineapple express we can only get this made once we have a hit and according to JJ it might have come first but Goodman before Fargo but Goodman was making Roseanne Jeff Bridges was making White Squall never forget that fucking he got like 10 buckets of rain dumped on him every minute the movie that like created QAnon

49:09Seth Rogen:yes

49:10Griffin Newman:Because the storm is coming?

49:12David Sims:Where we go one, one goes all. All the quotes in White Squall

49:17Seth Rogen:have become QAnon models. That is maybe the weirdest part about QAnon. It's like how Proud Boys... Everything else... I don't say this. Of all the stuff I've heard, it's the thing that makes least sense.

49:28David Sims:It's like how Proud Boys is all spun out of a song deleted from Disney's Aladdin. Yes. Really? Yeah, Proud of Your Boy.

49:34Griffin Newman:Yep. There's a song in Disney's Aladdin where Aladdin's mom sings that she's proud of him. They decided to cut it because it's boring.

49:39David Sims:Right. And then they grabbed it and said, like, Disney cut this because they don't want women saying that men are good. Oh, well, that's 30 years ago. They do. We need to be proud, boys. We need to create the Aladdin's mom that never existed to make us feel proud. Doesn't that make them a lot dorkier? I mean, not that they need help.

50:02Griffin Newman:So the Coens, it's a personal movie in a way in that, yes, it's based on dudes they know. Can I just finish this thought?

50:07David Sims:The Connor part, it's tied to... what you just said. That he was like, I think part of the legitimacy bestowed upon Fargo as these guys have stopped fucking around and made a real movie was the false selling of Fargo as a true story.

50:20Seth Rogen:Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's so true.

50:21David Sims:Which lent some weight and all the weird Cohen-isms of it. People were like, well, but they didn't make it up. I guess the story's just really quirky. And that Lebowski, people are like, what the fuck is this? This is bullshit. This came from nothing. And you're like, the movie is based on two real people. So the circumstances aren't real, but the characters are very much riffing on real people.

50:40Griffin Newman:So there's this guy Peter Exline, Pete Exline, who is like one inspiration who had been like, worked for Michael Douglas and then was a professor at USC. There's this guy, Lou Abernathy, but who's sort of like a Walter type. But John Milius is obviously a big inspiration for Walter. The Zen fascist. Right. And then this guy Jeff Dowd. Yes, that's the guy you're talking about, who is sort of like, he calls himself the Pope of Dope, and like he He was a member of the Seattle seven, which like the dude says he was an entertainment lawyer. Yeah. He's just like, and I just feel producer actor produced Fern Gully among other things.

51:18Griffin Newman:There you go. And like, when you look at him, cause he's still around, he looks like the dude and he kind of feels like the real Kramer from Seinfeld, right? How that guy was kind of like, I'm going to cash in on being Kramer. Yes. Like he's still just kind of being the dude. And you've met this guy. I have met him. Yeah. And he was annoying. cool so Peter X line the thing with him is they were at his house one time he's some fucking USC professor guy and he had a really shitty rug in his shitty house that he would not stop saying really tied the room together so they never forgot that X line when they ask him about it talks about this fake Persian rug where I mean he admits like that it was it was a conversation piece in his shitty house and he X line once told them a story about his Mazda getting stolen and then when he found it in an impound lot it had like a 14 year old's homework in it.

52:12Seth Rogen:Oh, that's really funny.

52:13Griffin Newman:So they never forgot that either. Like they have a lot of like little weird anecdotes from

52:18David Sims:these crusty Hollywood guys.

52:20Griffin Newman:That's what this movie feels like.

52:20David Sims:It feels like 20 years of incubation of like a notebook of things that got stuck in their craw of like that's funny and how could we unify all of this. Yeah, I remember me and Evan hearing

52:30Seth Rogen:that and that actually being very inspirational when we started writing Pineapple Express, literally. Like, I remember us thinking, like, oh, you can sort of accumulate a bunch of ideas and create a narrative that allows you to bring them to life. Right. And you don't have to, like, start with the story. You can start with a bunch of little things and then create a story that sort of architecturally supports these ideas.

52:53David Sims:And, like, can you build a character strong enough that can hold all of these separate things that becomes greater than the sum of its parts?

53:01Griffin Newman:Yeah. X-Line also was a Vietnam vet who could not stop talking about Vietnam, like would bring it up all the time. And so they did have that in their heads. I think this movie is very wisely set during the Gulf War. Right, it's 92? 91 or 92. Because it's like, we won the Gulf War so fast, we won. You know, we like ripped through Iraq so fast. Yeah, and when David said won, he gave two thumbs up just for that. Woo! And I do think it's quietly making Walter madder. That like America just crushed some fucking war. and he's still this piece of shit Vietnam vet that nobody likes thinking about. Obviously John Milius who I feel like just sort of the aggro energy, right?

53:42Griffin Newman:The kind of like the way he looks, the way you hear about John Milius is just being like eternally ready for war in a weird way.

53:49David Sims:I already said, but he described himself as the Zen fascist.

53:53Seth Rogen:Yes.

53:54David Sims:Right. What class did you get there?

53:56Seth Rogen:I got an Indiana Jones.

53:58David Sims:Beautiful. and the great circle. It's the Xbox game. This was a promo item for their IHOP menu. I spent a lot of Pancoins to buy that. Yeah, your original I don't care. Let me take my Lactaid before this fucking cocktail.

54:12Griffin Newman:That's vodka and milk.

54:16Seth Rogen:That's very nostalgic to me. It brings me back to 1999. To the bowling alley. It's quite good. It's not bad.

54:23Griffin Newman:I actually like it. so they and like Milius is kind of he's a fake vet he didn't serve in the military like he but they he had all his paraphernalia so like he's the other thing with Milius they met him when they were making Barton Fink I think Spielberg had great Milius stories

54:38Seth Rogen:and they were friends and he was he was like that guy's amazing because he was kind of the old he was like the old guy yeah he was like and he had had success sort of before when they're all coming up exactly but he was the badass

54:49David Sims:of all the movie brats which is to your point like this guy wasn't actually a Vietnam vet right And it wasn't that this guy wasn't extreme, but it's like George Lucas, Steven Spielberg, Brian De Palma are all like, this guy's unreal. You know, which is like it fits into the same character where you're like, he's not actually Walter isn't actually powerful within his world.

55:12Seth Rogen:No, but around these sort of like meek dudes. He's very, he is powerful.

55:16David Sims:Which he's self-selecting. Like, why is he hanging out with Donnie just so he can tell Donnie to shut the fuck up?

55:20Seth Rogen:Exactly why. Right, exactly.

55:23Griffin Newman:now Jeff Dowd the guy you have met who was in the Seattle 70s he claims he does not drink white Russians okay he says hey man sometimes it's Harvey Wallbanger sometimes it's tequila sunrises it's always a silly stupid drink that does sound like it's true and like old timey

55:41Seth Rogen:old timey named drinks yeah

55:43Griffin Newman:Ethan Cohen's take is basically like the dude is kind of personally more like Jeff Dowd but like you know with these mixed in other anecdotes, but the physicality is kind of that guy, and that's maybe the most. But then, also you hear that Bridges contributed a lot of the clothes, and

56:01Seth Rogen:he's like a California guy. Yeah, it feels like he's

56:05Griffin Newman:tapping something in himself that he maybe hadn't quite tapped yet.

56:09David Sims:Yeah, it's

56:11Griffin Newman:just like how True Grit turned him into an old cowboy.

56:13Seth Rogen:It turned him into that guy.

56:15Griffin Newman:Every movie he makes up to True Grit, he's like and for a while after Big Lebowski, he was the dude.

56:20Seth Rogen:Yes, he was I think if you see him on the street and you recognize, and if you either say to him, hey, man, I love the Big Lebowski or hey, man, I love True Great, you'll get a different job depending on which one you say. I do feel like. If you say I love both, he'll give you a really funny. Have you ever met him? I have one, maybe one or two times. And yeah, and I ran up to him and I went the Lebowski route and I got a very dude-ish response. And it was amazing. It was lovely.

56:53David Sims:It does feel like the dude has either become the closest thing to his default persona in life as an actor. Right? Because even the year after this is the contender where he's back in the most handsome man in high.

57:08Seth Rogen:I remember reading... He went as a kill stain for a while. He was as a kill stain. He went as a kill stain. He went as a kill stain. He cleaned the stain. He went back.

57:16Griffin Newman:No Tide Pen could fight this stain. It is so funny that Iron Man had to run through him before he deals with Thanos.

57:23Seth Rogen:Yeah, like a space alien. You take out Jeff Bridges and you're like, fuck you, then a space god. I'm going to build a slightly bigger suit than you. I like negotiating.

57:35Griffin Newman:Obviously, they start writing this script. James M. Cain is their blood simple. Like, you know, Miller's Crossing is Dashiell Hammett. This is Raymond Chandler, right? Like, they're like, it's perfect dressing for this plot. Have you guys rewatched The Big Sleep recently? Not in the last 10 years. I've seen it several times. I never know what's going on at the end, which I know is part of the point. It is sexy and cool. Right.

57:57Seth Rogen:I watched it for the actually, I think the first time, like a few years ago. I was... Some parts of it I really liked, but I was mostly like, what the fuck is going on? I love Humphrey Bogart. I think Humphrey Bogart is just like maybe the coolest. He's the coolest guy ever. Coolest guy ever. And like is unbelievably watchable.

58:14Griffin Newman:He's so cool in The Big Sleep. Yes. He's playing a guy who fucks.

58:18Seth Rogen:Yes. He's so cool in that movie.

58:20Griffin Newman:Like in Casablanca, which these are all movies I love. In Casablanca, he's like, I don't fuck anymore. I just have this bar and I'm sad. In Maltese Falcon, which is my favorite of his movies, he's like, I need to figure out what's going on with all you assholes. But in Big Sleep, he fucks. He's just being a cool motherfucker.

58:34Seth Rogen:He's just kind of cool. But it is similar, where he seems kind of confused as to what's happening throughout a lot of the movie. Right.

58:41David Sims:The spectrum of those movies, which are all kind of about perfect style, these impossibly cool leading men, and these undecipherable plots, right? And then Long Goodbye does the modernist version of that, which is, this is who this guy thinks he is in his mind. We're placing him in a modern context. The world at large is not in sync with him. Yep. the kind of like stylish voiceover narration is now just being like

59:06Seth Rogen:mumbled to himself like a crazy person.

59:09David Sims:This guy mumbling as a feeding cats, right? And then Big Lebowski adds the additional distance of what if this guy doesn't even know he's in that type of story and the narrator is someone else who he barely meets at a bar who can't even finish his thought.

59:21Seth Rogen:He can't even like quite remember or doesn't quite understand what's happening. Right. That is, I mean, rewatching it, it's funny that it's like some things like that where you're like, oh, this is so much weirder than I remember it being. Like the Sam Elliott narration is much stranger than I remember it. It's strange because they call him the stranger.

59:38Griffin Newman:It's strange because he's doing a bad job.

59:40Seth Rogen:Yeah. Like as a narrator. And they kind of paint him as like this all knowing guy, but he doesn't know anything. He gets lost in his train of thought.

59:47Griffin Newman:He interrupts the movie to be like, do you have to curse so much? And Jeffers is like, what? And he's like, don't worry about it. Like, it's very funny, but it is. It's weird.

59:55David Sims:We talk about this kind of like my favorite kind of Cohen dialogue is this like big chunky monologue. that is like a freeway that takes off ramps and merges back into the freeway where characters like answer the questions they pose themselves. And that's usually done in such a rat-a-tat, fast-talking way. And you got Sam Elliott, who's going to slow that down to a molasses crawl, but then you're also going to have him not figure out how to get back on the highway. You're like starting with a broken version of a Coen monologue.

1:00:23Seth Rogen:Yeah, and it's like starts with like narration that doesn't work.

1:00:26Griffin Newman:But nobody in this movie makes sense. So like you've got the dude who moves through every plot line, sort of competent, but also not paying attention. And then we'll be saying things he heard in the last episode.

1:00:40Seth Rogen:Yeah, he repeats a lot of things.

1:00:41Griffin Newman:Right, he repeats things that don't really... And then you have Walter who literally makes the wrong decision every single time and works himself into a frenzy. And then the final wrong decision, I feel like, is pulling the Big Lebowski out of the wheelchair. I mean, the funeral's like a coda, but that's sweet. But him being like, this guy walks, and at this point, you're like, I swear to God, he's not going to do something about this. You haven't hit once yet. You know he's going to.

1:01:05Seth Rogen:It's one of the greatest scenes in any movie.

1:01:08Griffin Newman:It's just like, there's a classic Cohen story in that they like wrote 40 pages and they were like, that's interesting. And they got stuck and they like put it away and then they put it back. To explain the narration, they say he's like an audience substitute and like Chandler stories always have a narrator. So we kind of wanted like a, but like they can't really explain it. It's not a decision to be like,

1:01:31David Sims:you couldn't have Lebowski narrate this movie. No. Because that gives him too much of a connection to the story. He has to be pushing against it. And the big driving force for Lebowski, as you said, like, him wanting the rug back is the active choice he makes that keeps the whole movie going, right? But that choice is driven by this guy wants to do nothing. The only active thing he does is to try to reset back to the status quo of where he is at the beginning, which is, I'm unemployed. I like everything in my apartment and I have my routines you know I got my roach clip

1:02:04Griffin Newman:I got the white Russians but the thing that does stress me out is if he just got the 20 grand initially from the you know job he fails to do you know it feels like the dude could live on 20 grand for like forever he doesn't seem to pay rent anyway he barely eats he like abhors that level of ambition I know

1:02:27David Sims:His pride in being unemployed?

1:02:29Griffin Newman:Yeah. Anyway, yeah, I mean, they said it in like the more marginal L.A., Venice Beach, the Valley Pasadena or whatever, you know, like that's what they're interested in. And then Pete, one of the inspirations is a big softball guy. But they were like, bowling is like makes more sense. It's aesthetically more pleasant. It's very male, which we think is like we want these guys to just be sitting around.

1:02:49David Sims:It's also weirdly rhythmic in a way that feels very Coenzy of just like the kind of repetition of the role and the sounds and the wood. Yeah. Now, the craziest thing, obviously, is their first choice was Mel Gibson for the dude.

1:03:01Griffin Newman:Whoa. Which is so wild. That is wild.

1:03:04David Sims:Do you know which role Mel Gibson would have played well? He could have rocked Walter. He would have killed Walter. No one could be better than Goodman, but he would have done a great Walter.

1:03:12Seth Rogen:Yeah, he actually would have. He's maybe too scary. Like, there's like an impotence to Walter a little bit. he does need to be not actually yeah

1:03:20David Sims:if he had played Walter at the time people would have said where did this come from this is an amazing transformation and now we would have said he gave us all the clues yeah exactly

1:03:28Seth Rogen:it was all there we'd be like oh and Mel Gibson has himself as Walter

1:03:32Griffin Newman:Gibson reads the script is like this is kind of funny there's no way I'm not gonna do this like this is like ransom era Gibson or whatever Jeff Bridges famously is kind of like especially back then like a waffler like he would like flirt with projects and not decide He was kind of tough to nail down. He was like, should I play a pothead? He had teenage daughters and worried he'd set a bad example. I mean, this feels very old-fashioned.

1:03:57David Sims:He's still in near-peak handsomeness era, too. He's kind of like a B-list movie star, like a really sturdy studio-leading man with a lot of Oscar nominations under his belt, but it felt like he was at a comfortable level of like, you handle mid-budget dramas.

1:04:13Seth Rogen:What were the other big Jeff Bridges movies around this?

1:04:15Griffin Newman:It's like, you know, Fearless, which is a great movie, is 1973. Morning After? Peter Weir movie? Peter Weir movie. Were you in Strawberries? Yes. Blown Away is 94 with Tommy Lee Jones.

1:04:28Seth Rogen:There's two movies called Blown Away, and I always watch. One is that one, and I can't remember. Is it one with Corey Haim and Corey Feldman? That sounds right. Let me look this up. Yep. Yep. Yep. I like that Tommy Lee Jones one.

1:04:38Griffin Newman:And they're both from around the same time.

1:04:40Seth Rogen:Tommy Lee Jones does the worst. Is he supposed to be? Irish. The Irish accent may be in the history of... Yes. It's Corey Haim and Nicole Eggert.

1:04:49Griffin Newman:Yes. Yeah. Yeah. But the one you're talking about, right. And Corey Feldman. That thing like blown away Patriot Games, Devil's Own, like when IRA guys were like a Hollywood film. Yeah, it was a cool IRA. Right, right.

1:05:00Seth Rogen:That was a good easy villain for us. Bridges was kind of like,

1:05:05David Sims:you know, $40 million movie that has a green light. I'm going to give you the rest around this time. Harrison Ford turns it down, get Jeff Bridges.

1:05:11Griffin Newman:Yeah. But it's like, obviously he did the Fisher King in the early 90s. That's a great movie. But he did the Vanishing remake, which is like, okay. He did Fearless, Blown Away. He played Wild Bill Hickok in like a biopic that was a Walter Hill movie, but wasn't a hit. White Squall, which he's like good in, but again, it's him just like yelling. And it's good for the culture. Good for the culture. And then Mirror Has Two Faces, which we covered on this show. Barbra Streisand, your former co-star. Fucking guilt trip. That movie is... Have you seen The Mirror Has Two Faces?

1:05:46Seth Rogen:Like, it's a really weird movie. Really, yeah, it's about her. She, like, changes her face. Yeah, I listened to her whole all 50 hours of her autobiography recently. It is more similar to Big Lebowski

1:06:00David Sims:than you would imagine, and that it just sort of has these weird... That is the last thing he'd done

1:06:04Griffin Newman:before The Big Lebowski. That's right. And then right after he does Arlington Road, which feels, again, more like another Blur and Ray. I like that movie. The movie's fun. Yeah, that's fine.

1:06:12David Sims:But he's like the king of kind of like adult counter-programming mid-budget studio fare. Not being a very beloved, respected actor.

1:06:22Griffin Newman:Anyway, his daughters are like, what do you care? Do whatever movie you want. And he says, he was sort of like, I guess I am kind of like the dude. I do sit around all day smoking weed. Although he says he doesn't, he did not smoke weed while making The Big Lebowski.

1:06:35David Sims:He's a professional.

1:06:36Griffin Newman:Right. And he said that like the script is written exact, like the dialogue is written. Like he said that once in a while I would put in an extra man and it would fuck up the line. Like you could tell like, no, they already, they already balanced every line out. Yeah.

1:06:50Seth Rogen:I, when I did the table read, I, it is weird. Cause like you are, you know, you kind of just do it. And like, and it is one of those things where like, it's like just by reading it, I'd be like, it's happening. Like, like if you just say every word, it sounds exactly like the dude. It was really remarkable in a lot of ways. Like,

1:07:10David Sims:you were, so good as an actor, a writer, and an improviser. And I feel like you have a skill at being able to take material and put it in your own voice in a way that isn't fighting against the movie. But then also, like, the movies we've covered that you have been in, those are things where it's like, you gotta play this part, you gotta fit into this, this isn't you making it your own. Not a lot of riffing, yeah. But like, Steve Jobs is something where it's like, you have that monologue, which I love so much that is like, seven unbroken minutes, where I'm sure you cannot move like a letter.

1:07:40Seth Rogen:No, what's weird about Aaron Sorkin, though, actually, is he was, if I would go to him, which I did a few times and was like, this is a little weird coming out of my mouth. He'd be like, I'll rewrite it. He's a Hollywood guy. I was completely, if anything, he would give it back. I'd be like, I think you changed too much of this. I literally thought like these few words could be adjusted. And he'd be like, no, I realized it. Like he, I was actually, all I heard was how rigid he was. Tony Kushner, I would say, was more someone who has put like an insane amount of thought into every word choice in a way that I had never even considered as a writer.

1:08:22Seth Rogen:Like what sound literally like what the consonants sounds they make when and, you know, that well, when you say you, it has a certain power. But when you say you, you guys, it means something totally different. And when you say, I like, and it was stuff like that where I was just like, oh my God, this is a level of like, like overthinking perhaps that, that I don't engage in. But then what was funny is Steven didn't care. And so he would just be like, ah, like, like, like he almost had bad. The funniest part of that whole movie to me. And this is like the perfect example of that conflict in a lot of ways is like, there's this line, there's a line in the script where Paul Dano, we're arguing.

1:09:03Seth Rogen:and then Michelle comes out and starts dancing in front of the fire and we kind of start watching her. And in the script, as that's happening, Paul quotes a famous James Joyce poem or something like that. And I would, Stephen doesn't rehearse ever. So if you want to rehearse, it's incumbent on you to find time to do it, basically. But basically he's shooting the first block. He doesn't want to rehearse. He's like, I don't want to rehearse. And he's like, I honestly don't want to talk about the acting. Like, he's like, I don't, I don't want to talk about it. He's like, do it. And I'll tell you if I want something different, basically.

1:09:40Seth Rogen:And so me and Paul would get together at my house sometimes to rehearse some of like the more dialogue-y scenes. So when we showed up on set, we were like.

1:09:49David Sims:When you got to be dropping like science and math. Exactly. Especially it's all these words.

1:09:53Seth Rogen:I literally don't know what they mean. And we kept rehearsing it. He kept being like, this one James Joyce line. It might not be that, but let's pretend. And he's just like, this is the line that I'm really, I'm kind of finding it hard to say, but then I kind of keep rediscovering what it might be about. And I've been talking to Tony Kushner about it a lot. And there's been an interesting back and forth about this line. And he's like, but to me, this line is so important and sort of summarizes the whole thing in a lot of ways that I want to just make sure that I do it right. And then we're shooting the scene and we're blocking it.

1:10:24Seth Rogen:And Stephen's like, so we're on you guys. And then you say this, Seth. And then at that moment, Michelle comes out and I'm going to pan with her. and she goes over there and starts dancing, and I'm filming her dancing. And Paul's like, well, if you pan away from me when she crosses, like, I say my line after that. So the shot won't get my line. And Stephen's like, oh, forget the line. Yeah. And I just thought, I literally, it's like Paul looks at me and is like, what? Like, forget the line? And you can see, you know, But to Stephen's credit, he's also like, it's like, I'll shoot it. Like, don't worry.

1:11:04Seth Rogen:You know, like, it doesn't matter. Like, if I'm directing this properly, it doesn't make a difference also. Like, he's like, trust me, the shots will tell the story properly.

1:11:14David Sims:It's a thing, especially when we rewatch. Like, I can't think of an example of this in Lebowski. But especially when we rewatch, like, some of the most totemic, quotable, repeated movies of all time, where you watch sequences and you're like, they actually aren't covered in the way you remember in your mind's eye where you don't see that actor's face during the famous line delivery. Oh, for sure. Yeah, it's amazing. There's so many examples where it's like an off-camera over the shoulder. Yeah. And all logic would be like, well, that's the big line. You need to get it in a close-up with them like selling it.

1:11:46Seth Rogen:Oh, I'm always saying that. I mean, it's like some of the biggest laughs in our movies are like off-camera lines. Like literally, you don't care at all as long as you hear it.

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1:14:59Griffin Newman:Picklebowski, just to wrap up the research, Walter, written for John Goodman. Really? No choice other than John Goodman for the Coens. Goodman says it's the best movie he ever made, best thing he ever did. He is unbelievable in this film.

1:15:12Seth Rogen:He's unreal. Did he get like... He should have won an Oscar for this movie. He should have. There's no awards for this movie. which is crazy because their previous movie had won a lot of Oscars you're totally right it's really weird and again I think it speaks like what I was saying before we started rolling is like I feel like there has been this like like people did not like this movie when it came out and my memory is it got bad reviews and I was actually shocked when I went on Rotten Tomatoes and had 80 % or something like that I was like that is not what this was you can't trust Rotten Tomatoes for an old movie

1:15:43David Sims:can we sidebar here for a second please the Cinematrix I don't know if you play the Voltres Cinematrix Our friend Joe Reed who runs that. Shout out to Joe Reed. We gripe every time there's a Rotten Tomatoes score as a prompt in that. Yeah, because it's not real. Because Rotten Tomatoes is a living text. Yes. Beyond it being a bad metric, it's a living text where you're like, well, I can start my website tomorrow called like griflikesmovies.org and be like Big Lebowski 100 % and then that will up its Tomatoes score versus what I want is, how is it received at the time?

1:16:13Seth Rogen:Well, I also think a lot of like, I mean, I could be. You're right. I'm almost sure like the Hollywood Reporter like republishes new reviews. So they're not on the wrong side of history. Like no one like 2001 when it came out and now it has like 100%. Like they, whatever publications give it bad reviews. And what's funny is I feel like I said this once on Twitter or something. And like, I got like attacked, like savage. On Twitter? Exactly. But by movie critics who were like, that doesn't happen. They don't do that. And I was like, they do. That happens. Like the general. I'm looking at this general thing over here.

1:16:48Seth Rogen:People didn't like that movie when it came out. And now you go on, Ron Tomei, so that's 100 % or something. But it's a real disservice, I think, to people who are interested in movies because you are not getting the actual context of how these movies were received when they came out. And if you gave the general a bad review 100 years ago, you should shut the fuck up and deal with it and eat it. Also, congrats on being 115 years old. Exactly. And if you've made it to that age, you should take the ding and fucking accept that you that you were on the wrong side of the general just as you were on the wrong side of 2001 and the Big Lebowski

1:17:23David Sims:just how the character in the general was on the wrong side of the war he was he was and we should acknowledge we should acknowledge that

1:17:29Griffin Newman:when you look at Metacritic which does a pretty good job trying to find like the actual of the time reviews and it's also better

1:17:35David Sims:at not being a consensus but being a sense of how positive the reviews were right and what percentage and it has a 71 on Metacritic

1:17:42Griffin Newman:and even that I imagine is a little inflated by later stuff. But you see like Ken Turan and the LA Times being like, film feels like totally thrown together haphazard. Yeah. And like, I get it. Which is crazy. It's crazy. I can sort of understand people, critics sitting down in 1998 for this like Fargo follow-up and being like, I don't fucking get it.

1:18:00Seth Rogen:It's like so composed and it's so... That's the thing. ...deliberate. It's tight and intricate. Were they just spoiled at the time?

1:18:07Griffin Newman:Like that there were just too many good looking movies? I don't know.

1:18:10Seth Rogen:I honestly think maybe like, it's so interesting.

1:18:13Griffin Newman:The Associated Press were like let down. Strange for the sake of being strange. Like just like has nothing to say. Bad inside. People treated like it was like Epic Bacon movie.

1:18:23David Sims:And they were like, it's all just rando shit. I also, I think I saw a lot of critics at the time repeat is it basically doesn't have a story. Just saying like this movie is just this meandering series of like bullshit with no story. And you're like, if anything, the slam should be the opposite.

1:18:40Seth Rogen:Yeah, there's too much. Well, there's a lot of plot. It is an unconventional script. It is. But I think almost that's what's oddly magical about it, is it sort of forgoes a lot of traditional things but remains incredibly entertaining and watchable, I think, in a moment-to-moment basis. And even though you don't quite get what the fuck is happening, you really want to know what happens next. Because it's so funny and the characters are so interesting, but I get why it would be challenging to people at the time because it sort of... is from people who you like are used to kind of getting their work i think and then it's also at a time when comedy is like so big you know and not it is yes and not very like conversational like i think that's actually i remember when we were making 40 virgin we were writing super bad like we were so inspired by this movie me and evan because we were like oh they actually like swear as much as we do when we talk yeah and at the time that was like crazy that was like You couldn't do it in a movie.

1:19:42Seth Rogen:Like, all these movies... Of course, you did.

1:19:44David Sims:It was a Scorsese movie where the point is, these are the worst people on the planet.

1:19:48Seth Rogen:But even something about Mary, they'll show you, like, a fucking, like, gaping asshole. You know, but like... Five fucks in that movie. Yeah, but like, they aren't casually profane. They're kind of very innocent. And that was always a thing that I, like, really was kind of a fan of. It's something that my work would later reflect, I'd say, in many ways. But that was, to me, like... I think that's why it's aged well, is it's sort of more reflective of comedies that came out 10 years later. Which is probably the seeping of them.

1:20:17David Sims:I mean, it is literally like you guys taking stuff from it and then people taking stuff from you guys, the movies you made.

1:20:24Seth Rogen:Yeah, and then us making movies in 2006 and 2007 and 2008 and us talking about this movie a lot, honestly.

1:20:30David Sims:But you think about, there were always, there would be those stupid repeated stats of like the Guinness Book of World Records for most fucks in a movie. Yeah. And there were always like four movies that people would repeat. It was like Casino, Goodfellas, Nill by Mouth held the record for a while.

1:20:45Griffin Newman:Nill by Mouth, they only say the word fuck. Right. That's the thing. It's like, right. The only word spoken is fuck.

1:20:50David Sims:It was movies where it's like about like murders, criminals, or movies where you're like...

1:20:55Seth Rogen:It's good.

1:20:58Griffin Newman:Movies where that's like the stylistic choice, right? And Jerry does have the most Jerry's, right? It's in Guinness Book of World Records. I think so.

1:21:06Seth Rogen:Only second to Tom and Jerry.

1:21:09David Sims:because that has a lot of time that more time

1:21:11Seth Rogen:they bounce it out too much

1:21:13David Sims:but then you I know you guys talk a lot about like Kevin Smith influencing you in that way and that's a movie where people talk the way the people talk his first couple films and that's the way he talks like yeah certainly the way he talks it is and then right like you guys kind of like put that on a mainstream scale where there is this shift post like I think so much about that summer we're knocked up and Superbad come out within eight weeks of each other yeah And it feels like the entire culture shifts. Yeah. Of just like, all of this is now just understandable by everybody.

1:21:44Seth Rogen:Yeah, it was. But I think like, well, even when we were making 40-Year-Old Virgin, I was like, they should be swearing casually all the time. And that was like my biggest contribution to the movie. I was like, we should be smoking weed casually and swearing all the time. And there's two things that are very much from The Big Ol' Mouse King.

1:22:05Griffin Newman:Yeah, because like four-year-old Virgin, that's sort of Steve's movie that he brings to Judd.

1:22:11Seth Rogen:And he, and I was brought on as like a -

1:22:14Griffin Newman:Because he was kind of a character he'd done at Second City or whatever. Exactly.

1:22:16Seth Rogen:And I was brought on as like a co-producer to help write the script and to rewrite it as we were doing it. And that was always my thing because I was like, there's going to be an R-rated movie. We should fucking go for it. Like we should have them. I remember, and Carell was very uncomfortable with it. Right. And he's from the prior generation. He didn't want to swear. I remember I had to write a whole script that was like, there was no swearing. Like I had to like redo every scene. And I was always coming up with clean versions. That's where that Kelly Clarkson joke came from. Cause I literally was tasked with like, what are not profane things that he could say?

1:22:52Seth Rogen:Right. Like as he's getting waxed. And I even remember like, there's the scene where me and Rudd are playing video games and we're saying, you know, I know you're gay and, and we're smoking weed like from a pipe in that scene. And even that was like, are you sure? They were like, this is crazy. It was still in going electric. Yeah, because they were not allowed to do it. There were people smoking weed if the joke wasn't that they were smoking weed. It was always if they were smoking weed, it was the joke. But I was like, people just sit around and smoke weed also. It's not always the joke. And I remember when we did it in the theater, people burst into applause.

1:23:29Seth Rogen:just like because at the sight of two guys smoking weed and playing video games and like swearing. And at the time that was like somehow revolutionary.

1:23:38Griffin Newman:The thing about that movie, and I do remember, I mean, like the first time I saw it in a theater and all that, is you're also watching all those characters kind of realize they all like hanging out. Like at the start of the movie, they just like work at the TV store and they hate it. And like you're watching them. They all want to hang out and talk about their dicks.

1:23:55David Sims:You say 40-year-old virgins. I mean, the first image that pops into my head is him sitting uncomfortably at the poker table. It becomes the boob conversation.

1:24:03Seth Rogen:The Bag of Sam. That's like the movie that the whole, that's the idea of the whole movie is based on.

1:24:07David Sims:But also, that is the motor that you just described of this guy doesn't like all this cursing happening. But it sort of worked

1:24:13Griffin Newman:for the movie. All the friends, you guys all react with like, can we get you laid? Yeah. Instead of being like, oh, I don't want to deal with you. Yeah. That's why the movie's fun. It's sweet. Yeah, exactly. It's really sweet. Yes. It's fun to hit each other with the fluorescent light bulb yeah that was something that me and my friends picked up

1:24:31Seth Rogen:I remember we did a Taylor Reid and Adam McKay that was his strong pitch whose idea was

1:24:37Griffin Newman:David Caruso and Jade

1:24:38Seth Rogen:that was me for sure that's the best line

1:24:43Griffin Newman:100 % and Carell being like oh yes of course

1:24:48David Sims:there's another thing we mentioned that a lot on the podcast I often cite it as my single favorite line of dialogue the funniest line of dialogue in any movie. And I need to know if this came from you and Evan or from Hader in Superbad when you're driving McLovin around and you're doing Star Wars impressions and then Hader turns back and he goes, you know Yoda from Attack of the Clones?

1:25:10Seth Rogen:That was Bill Hader. That was the funniest joke. That was so stupid. That was really making ourselves laugh. Yoda from Attack of the Clones. Yoda from Attack of the Clones. That was so stupid. Me and Bill loved fucking with Christmas who was a child at the time right and i remember a new child i remember we were talking about the movie short circuit like we were we'd film all these scenes where he's in the back of the car and me and bill would just talk and we were talking about short circuit we're talking about oh yeah it's like we're just kind of reminiscing it's like right it's like the robot he gets struck by lightning that's what brings him to life and chris is like what you guys talk about and we're like this movie short circuit and he's like oh what is that and he never heard of it and bill goes, it's a documentary about a robot that comes to life.

1:25:55Seth Rogen:And Chris is like, got hit by lightning. And I feel like this was like maybe a little before like everyone just was Googling everything all the time. And for like several weeks, we convinced Christmas boss that Short Circuit was a documentary about a robot, which made the Fisher Stevens playing an Indian guy even more confusing. This was real? You're like, that's the real guy, huh?

1:26:15David Sims:But I feel like to your point, right, like you guys had this sort of like devotion to this idea of why are comedies not reflecting a certain like social reality, right? And that in sort of studio logic, these things need to be justified as that is the entire point of the movie. If you were making a stoner movie, it is Cheech and Chong. Every scene is driven by these guys' overwhelming desire to get their hands They're literally smoking weed

1:26:41Seth Rogen:in a van made of weed. Right, that's the only thing.

1:26:46David Sims:They turn it into a bong. Right, and it's like, if weed exists in a movie, it is either that or there is a set piece scene in which a character smokes by accident where someone smokes weed and has the crazy and then they like fuck a bucket or whatever it is. Right? And those are like the only two things. Yeah, it's like

1:27:02Seth Rogen:all about that. Right, similarly

1:27:04David Sims:if a character's cursing a lot, it's like this character is a bad person. Yeah, they're like

1:27:08Seth Rogen:a mafia guy or something.

1:27:09Griffin Newman:It's one scene of John Pulido. I went to college in 2004 and I do think part of the thing with this movie is like there weren't a lot of good stoner movies. No, there were almost none. Like there were Cheech and Chong or whatever That felt very old fashioned.

1:27:20Seth Rogen:Which I actually think it's one of the reasons it struck such a big cultural. Yeah, 100%. I really think that. The culture was swerving that way. Yeah. And when we made Pineapple Express, we could just see that there was like so few good things that even like had the care and attention put into them as like any normal thing for people who smoke weed or even like mentioning people who smoke weed in a respect, like giving them the respect of actually crafting something that is like worthy of watching. and this movie, I think, was probably like cathartic to a lot of people in a lot of ways because you're like, oh, like the Coen brothers, like some of the best living filmmakers.

1:27:55Seth Rogen:I mean, and I will stop

1:27:57Griffin Newman:sucking your dick after this, but just like with Superdad, Superbad, like I'm watching that. I was, when did that come out? Oh, six or seven. It came out

1:28:05David Sims:the summer between my high school graduation and going to college, which I was just like, that was like watching the movie in 10 DX. Yeah. It was the most visceral. I watched it. I saw it like five times.

1:28:17Griffin Newman:I was right out of college. I just graduated but still I felt like that was a movie where it's like they want to fuck but they're pretty scared of it oh yeah and like there weren't like sex comedies were instead about like guys who were like you know 28 years old playing 17 year olds being like I can't wait to get laid and Superbad is them being like I'm interested but I wouldn't know what to do and I'm scared yeah and like I don't think I'd ever seen that in a movie like that way no like Michael Cera

1:28:42David Sims:in bed with Martha McEiser yeah I was like this is like the eyeball being cut and she's on the loose You're finally tapping into the most primal terror in my being.

1:28:51Seth Rogen:Yeah, it's like the girl's hornier than you. Yeah. And what do you do with that? What am I supposed to do here? What do you do with that? Yeah, it's very reflective of our real-life experience.

1:29:02David Sims:But to on-ramp back, I mean, all of this is connected. It's heavily inspired by the big-a-mouse-kies. I know, I know, yeah. Very directly inspired. I always think about you and Evan talking about - And the three.

1:29:13Seth Rogen:I'd say Evan and Michael and McLovin is inspired by Walt and that dude and Donnie. That energy. That palpable sort of aggressive argumentative dynamic to us was something.

1:29:27David Sims:And even the like, shut the fuck up, Fogel. Literally. I was going to say, I've heard you guys talk about so much how making movies are, it's so difficult and so many things can go wrong and it can be so embarrassing and demoralizing that it's kind of like it's not worth doing unless you have an idea that you're willing to die to make. Yeah. And that you talk about when you were like starting to write Superbad and the years of you trying to get it made when you didn't have like the clout in Hollywood. You were like, we would die to get this film made and no one else gets it because it's like a fucking high school sex comedy.

1:30:03David Sims:But it means this much to us that there's something we have to say. And the dismissal of Big Lebowski at the time is so weird with this attitude of like, are they fucking pranking us? Where you watch this and you do feel like this is a movie they were willing to die to make.

1:30:16Seth Rogen:And they're like, we'll use all the cachet from winning Best Picture and put it into this like stoner comedy.

1:30:21David Sims:It has that like weird level of urgency and thought to it of like, we have always wanted to make this and this is the only moment where we can get away with it.

1:30:29Seth Rogen:Yeah, where we have the cachet to do it. Yeah.

1:30:31Griffin Newman:The movie costs$15 million and Bridges apparently when he got like the whatever lowball offer that like they sent him was like, you guys just won an Oscar. you can't pay me more money and they were like we want the budget so they won't fuck with us it's another thing

1:30:45David Sims:I think about a lot you guys have talked about the post Green Hornet thing of like you guys learned the lesson from this movie got too big too many people had to weigh in in every decision and I cite it all the time in this podcast that you guys will pitch films as like what is the budget number where if it's below this you don't give us notes literally yeah that's basically it where it's such a bargain that if we can get these actors yeah

1:31:08Seth Rogen:to us now it's the number where it's like what is it what's the number where there'll always be a bigger problem they have to deal with right like what like as long as there's a more expensive movie going off the rails yeah they will they'll just never get to us right they don't have the infrastructure they have too many other holes to plug just like six guys at this point

1:31:30David Sims:exactly but they've been so smart about it where it's just like their two biggest movies are hud sucker and true grit hud sucker's their biggest flop true Grit was their biggest success, but both of those still were like $50 million. Yeah, not out of control. They've just always kept it at a level where it allows them the hits and misses to all even out.

1:31:50Seth Rogen:It's so smart. Yeah. And they clearly shoot in an efficient way. They clearly plan everything. I mean, I remember even, yeah, I remember when this, I remember watching this and it was so funny because it was like right when we were making all of our movies. I remember watching like all the behind the scenes features for it and see how they like storyboarded every single shot of the movie and I'd like never seen I'd made four movies and never seen one story in my entire life and was like oh wow that's like a really different way of making things but you see a lot of it is so you can be efficient and so you can shoot the stuff that has like scope in a very quick and cheap

1:32:23Griffin Newman:way right yeah so what do you want to say about the big Lebowski

1:32:26David Sims:I think we pretty much said it all thank you all for that no no no no so okay starts as we said with you paying for the

1:32:33Griffin Newman:milk well we're pushing the stranger with LA right literal tumbleweed.

1:32:38Seth Rogen:Some sort of CGI-looking tumbleweed made out of the beach. This is an early

1:32:43Griffin Newman:CGI movie. I'm doing the dream sequences and stuff. The dream sequence weirdly works so well

1:32:48David Sims:as a time capsule of screensaver.

1:32:54Griffin Newman:Aesthetics. You know what else is good about it? Jeff Bridges is so locked in. He's so funny. He's having so much fun. He's incredible in this. Yes. Oh, yeah? Maybe? I think

1:33:05David Sims:Jeff Bridges gives a good performance in The Big Lebowski. No, he's incredible. And what is striking about watching it now is actually how clearly he speaks. Right. Because I think the Jeff Bridges thing has gotten so accelerated in what we talk about, the fucking, like, Billy Goat Gruff chewing on a tin can.

1:33:23Seth Rogen:Yeah, no, he's very... And his voice is sort of high is what's interesting. Yeah, he's kind of whiny. Yeah, it's sort of like, oh, what do you... It's like a high exasperation, which is...

1:33:32David Sims:He has such a good take on how to play this guy that is not the obvious way of doing it, which is, this guy wants to believe he's not affected by anything and yet he's very easily annoyed.

1:33:42Seth Rogen:And he's very worked up about everything that happens. Yeah.

1:33:45Griffin Newman:Right, because the inciting incident is, of course, Jacob from Lost and another guy stealing his rug. That guy's always Jacob from Lost. Well, they piss on the rug first. They piss on it and then they take it. Yeah, actually, it's a good point. Why do they piss on it before they steal it? Do they steal it? No, they steal it later. That's right.

1:34:00Seth Rogen:They piss on it and they beat him up. No, they just piss on it and they think he gets rid of it. Yes. Which they don't show.

1:34:06Griffin Newman:Yes. You're right. and they put his head in the toilet and they really leave him in there for a while I feel like that's the first time I clock that

1:34:14David Sims:and even still that's sort of like a shrug and it's not until they get on the rug that he's like come on you're obviously not a golfer

1:34:20Seth Rogen:and it's like it's something it's like I remember when we were blocking like the fight scene in Pineapple Express like showing the fight choreographer like and it always left such an impression on me when the guy's like rushing into the bathroom and his bowling ball hits the door frame and it like shattered it like breaks off a chunk of the doorframe. It's just so awkward and weird. Yes. And again, like sets a tone for like a world where just like nothing's going right kind of in a weird way. And I remember being like, they clearly did that on purpose. Yes. But it's such a cool little detail that sort of shows like the sloppiness of all this.

1:34:54David Sims:The pineapple fight is so good in that same way where you're like, this is given the amount of space and time as if it is like a Jet Li set piece. Yeah. And yet it is all just people who don't know how to fight in a shitty apartment causing collateral damage.

1:35:07Seth Rogen:The whole joke was like, like how hard it actually would be to knock someone unconscious. Right. So the fight, the fight would just have to keep going.

1:35:15David Sims:By the way, that's like what the Cohen said was their main impetus for blood simple. Is there like movies make it seem like it's really easy to kill someone? Yeah, probably are. It probably takes hours. It's so stressful.

1:35:26Griffin Newman:And people are just close to death for so long. So his rug is destroyed. He goes to his bowling alley. Clearly you're looking for another guy. Looking for the big Lebowski. The big Lebowski.

1:35:37Seth Rogen:And after like an amazingly cinematic opening sequence, which I think is also like what's so interesting. At the bowling alley. At the bowling alley. It's such a good tone setting. It's so like indulgent in a weird way. But like shamelessly cinematic at the same time, I think. I love the tum-tum shot. Yes. That's so funny. The guy who does the little like shimmy. Yeah.

1:35:57David Sims:But it's also like why this movie is centered in the world of bowling. Right? Which is also why to call this movie

1:36:05Seth Rogen:haphazard is so crazy. It is crazy. It's so clearly composed.

1:36:10Griffin Newman:I agree with you. They talk about it like just some indie comedy that was made for$5.

1:36:17Seth Rogen:You have to build special sets that allow the camera to pass through the bowling ball machine.

1:36:24Griffin Newman:Giant Deacon's wide lens shots. But this idea of the... Obviously, the Busby Berkeley musical sequences with bowling alley dancers. This idea of like the middle-aged working man's like weekend sport. Well, bowling's so fucking funny. I love bowling. I really love bowling. I did it a ton as a kid because like it was a great thing to do. You couldn't go to a bar yet. Right. I loved going to the arcade in bowling alleys. Oh, yeah. Right.

1:36:48Seth Rogen:Still do.

1:36:48Griffin Newman:Yeah. I went recently to the gutter in Williamsburg. I go there all the time. It's like so shitty. Like half the time the pin thing doesn't even work and you have to be like, hey! And they're like, oh, sorry. And like everyone is unathletic. everyone looks like a complete dork, especially in the bowling world. Anyone who takes bowling seriously,

1:37:07David Sims:bowling leagues. They're all weird. You kind of love them. But also, this culture is permanently stuck in the 1960s. You're like, this is a late 90s movie where all of the vibes of bowling... The aesthetic is like bowling carry show.

1:37:18Seth Rogen:The Drew Carey show are like 1960s style shirts, literally.

1:37:22David Sims:Am I wrong? Has anyone updated it since? Even the shoes are so caught in that time. Bowling culture is all stuck in 1968. 68.

1:37:30Seth Rogen:Well, no, now there's like pins. Is that what it's called? Sort of like hip bowling. Influencer bowling. It's like the top golf of bowling kind of like I don't know about this. They have them around LA. I'm looking at it. I feel like there's

1:37:44David Sims:like there's like cool singles bowling, but that's different than like people who make their life be built. I don't want that.

1:37:51Griffin Newman:Like I want to go to a shitty bowling alley with stars and neon and yeah, like$2 beer drink shitty beer and exactly just sit because like so much bowling is sitting a lot of it

1:38:02Seth Rogen:you're mostly not doing anything

1:38:04Griffin Newman:right and then when you do your turn you're like how right how much do I like sort of shimmy or show off

1:38:10Seth Rogen:40 seconds of stuff for every 8 minutes of not stuff yeah

1:38:15David Sims:and so right so he's shooting the shit and also that part of it is that like when the most exciting thing happens there's a good chance that no one's looking at it

1:38:21Seth Rogen:no one's paying attention except you that there's like

1:38:24David Sims:two thrilling seconds

1:38:26Griffin Newman:you see what I did I'm eating mozzarella sticks And you get to celebrate, which is a really fun part of bowling. As you come back to your seat. There's like a walk.

1:38:35Seth Rogen:There's like an organic sort of walk.

1:38:38Griffin Newman:You have an end zone dance. Yeah. So they go see the Big Lebowski. Now, I love that it's David Huddleston, who's just like a character actor guy. They wanted like Robert Duvall, who like read the script and was like, what the fuck is this? Like they went to all these big shots for that. That's really funny. Probably destabilize it. Because the whole point is that this guy isn't really important. Like they asked like Anthony Hopkins, they wanted Jack Nicholson, Gene Hackman, like all that makes sense. But like, I feel like it's perfect that he's this kind of, you can immediately understand that he's a loser.

1:39:10Griffin Newman:Yeah. Right? I feel like I've seen the movie so much that of course I know he's kind of full of shit. But I feel like you know that right away. He's a cartoon version of a rich big shot.

1:39:18Seth Rogen:He doesn't seem particularly strong. No, right. Or imposing.

1:39:22David Sims:But he's like one of the guys in the boardroom in Hudsucker. You're like, even in a movie that is heightened, this guy is an affect of a wealthy, powerful person.

1:39:33Seth Rogen:Well, also, you meet Brant first, who sucks like a fucking blowhard. He's so funny.

1:39:39David Sims:It might truly be the single greatest split three card in the history of cinema. There is one card that is Philip Seymour Hoffman, Flea Leon Russum. The great Leon Russum who plays the sheriff at the end, who is my beloved pull the cork man in true grade. I love that guy. I'm just like that. The fact that the bench is so deep and this era of American cinema where it felt like there is a clearly identified consensus pool of the 25 greatest character actors alive. And in the second half of the 90s in the early 2000s, the five best directors are all pulling from it all the time. And you're like the amount of overlap between like this and Boogie Nights.

1:40:21David Sims:You know, like there's. Yeah, it's true. this pool of just like hey you know what any movie that has some combination of I know this movie's missing Philip Baker Hall Philip Seymour Hoffman right Julianne Moore you're just you're cooking with gas if you get six of these people even if they're only going to pop up for 20 lines

1:40:39Griffin Newman:like they auditioned Murder's Row for that role like Paul Giamatti

1:40:43Seth Rogen:I remember Paul Rudd auditioned he told me he auditioned for Brandt and he like performed for me what he did and it was like the weirdest thing in the entire world.

1:40:53Griffin Newman:Did you see him perform it after having watched Phil Tomahawk? Yes. You're like, this is what we were making

1:40:59Seth Rogen:for a new version. I was probably talking about how much I liked that movie. And he's like, I auditioned for Brad and it was humiliating and I made the weirdest choice in the entire world. What did he do? He did this weird, like, hello. And I just remember he had this weird cartoon butler. Like a cartoon butler. Like that guy from the cartoons who was like, yes. Why, yes.

1:41:22David Sims:It is the magic of Huffman and our friend James Urbaniak has talked about this, but that he auditioned for an off-Broadway play in the 90s and was just like, got the audition, was like, this is my role. This is a James Urbaniak role. Post-Henry Fool, who else is going to get this part? And he doesn't get it and he's furious and he goes to see it opening night and he comes out and immediately from the first second on stage, he's just like, this is the only guy who could have played it. he is making a choice I never would have considered and it feels so bizarre and out of left field and yet it is in retrospect the only right choice and like he's taking big swings with this part it's not like he's not doing weird shit

1:42:05Seth Rogen:oh he's doing such weird the weirdest part is when he repeats the line yes and I could never he resets that I genuinely don't know if it was supposed to be in the script or if he just did it I don't know but it is like so weird and seamless it's so robotic yes

1:42:18David Sims:because he doesn't even reset to the beginning of the line where it could be an edit point, he goes back four words. It's so weird. Or you're like, it wouldn't even help to have this.

1:42:28Seth Rogen:There was a movie I was going to be in and then I didn't do it and then he did it and I remember, and I've talked to the director. Capote? No, it was that. It was called The Boat That Rocked. Yeah, yes. The Richard Curtis. Yeah, and he wanted me to do it and I couldn't do it and then he got Philip Seymour Hoffman and then I saw him after that and I was like, you really lucked out. And he's like, honestly, I did. He's like, I feel no remorse to tell you that he did a much better job than you would have done. He's a much better actor than you are. The movie turned out much better as a result of him having done that role.

1:43:04Seth Rogen:I do just kind of think

1:43:06David Sims:he's the best to ever do it. He's like the best screen actor of all time. And I think the argument for that is every single performance.

1:43:14Seth Rogen:Oh, yeah. He wanted me to be in the movie he directed. The Jack. Yeah. And I met with him and he wanted me to be the star of it, which was. To play the part he ended up playing? Yeah. And it was one of the most flattering moments of my life. Because it's like, yeah, I can see how. But I remember saying in the meeting to him, like, A, I would be honestly too scared to act for you every day. Right. And B, like, you should do it. You are a better actor than I am. I was like, do you know you have access to you? Are you aware that you know you? Have you been told you're technically unavailable for this?

1:43:50Seth Rogen:Because I don't think you are. You should do this. You're the best actor. There's no better actor. And then he did it. Yeah, and was good. He's like, you know what? You're right.

1:44:01Griffin Newman:I have a better actor than you. Great advice. How about all your stories end up with someone being like, by the way, I fucking crushed it. Exactly.

1:44:08David Sims:You were right. Another thing in Blank Check lore I need to invoke. Oh, what's that? You auditioning for James O 'Brooks for How Do You Know? Was that for the Rudd Roll? Yes. I auditioned for the Rudd Roll. Wait, what is the, I don't know what this is. Well, it's a crazy story. I'm not going to tell the story, but it's the greatest audition response I've ever heard.

1:44:26Seth Rogen:It's pretty funny where I, I've known Jim, Jim as they call him, James L. Brooks. I've known him for a while. And it's like one of the great gifts of my life that I know James L. Brooks. Like it's incredible. I wrote a Simpsons episode once and he, you know, he was very helpful and he was amazing. And he's come to our table reads and he's just, Judd got his start on The Critic, which was a James L. Brooks show. So he was sort of like in our orbit always. And so he called me when Superbad came out. He's like a huge fan. So he's making How Do You Know? And he calls me into audition. And his audition process is like crazy, you know?

1:44:59Seth Rogen:And I go in and Reese Witherspoon is like there. Like, she's already cast in the movie. And for the audition, we're like in his office, which is at Sony, I think, at the time. And he basically shoots the scene. And it's like a five-hour audition. We're like, we do a master. calls me out of the room and gives me direction. We do another take. Are you just in an office? We're just in his office. Okay. Sitting on a couch. We do another take. Calls me outside. Gives me more direction. He starts giving Reese direction. I'm like, she's casting a movie. Like, what are you doing? But he needs like full simulation of what the day would be like.

1:45:34Seth Rogen:He wants a full simulation. And so we spend, I'm not joking, five hours shooting this scene. I don't hear anything. Weeks, a couple weeks go by. and I'm like maybe I'm gonna do this movie people ask me what I'm gonna do I'm like oh maybe I maybe got this part in the Jim Brooks movie which is exciting that I remember I like remember it so I remember like where I was I was like walking across the Stoney lot where he also was it's where our offices were and I got a phone call and they were like Jim Brooks calling for you and I was like oh cool and then like a minute a second goes by and like the first words out of his mouth or he goes, not even close, pal.

1:46:14David Sims:Not even close, pal.

1:46:15Seth Rogen:It's one of the greatest lines ever. Oh my God. And I was like, what? What are you fucking talking about? I was like, it's been two weeks. It took you two weeks to get to not even close. But also like, damn, this guy's a good writer.

1:46:31David Sims:That's the right line. That's the best line someone could say in a James O 'Briks movie. It's so funny. It's not even close, pal.

1:46:38Griffin Newman:It made me laugh so hard. Did he then couch it at all? Then go like, but I love you. He was like, honestly, watching it,

1:46:46Seth Rogen:I realized you're just too young. He was like that. He's like, and that's what I've been wrestling with for the last few weeks. He's like, I liked what you did, but I keep just thinking maybe you're too young. And he cast Paul Rudd, who is, you know, 10 years old or something like that.

1:46:58David Sims:But it's like, Seth, I have Jim Brooks for you online too. Not even close. Literally, that was how it sounded. I have Jim Brooks for you.

1:47:04Seth Rogen:Cool. Not even close, pal. I like, it was legitimately hilarious.

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1:50:13Griffin Newman:Wait, how did we get to that? It doesn't matter. We're talking about brands. The only thing I want to call out is coming... His laugh when she says I'll give you a blowjob for 100 years. It's the most truly amazing. I wish I could laugh like that. Like I could do that kind of like, I want to kill myself laugh on command.

1:50:28Seth Rogen:That's one of those lines I'm always, I think there's almost like a Tourette syndrome that kicks in. Like when you realize you can quote the Big Lebowski, if you're a fan, you have to. Like when someone, and I'm not proud of it, but it is something I find myself doing. And whenever someone says that someone's a nihilist, I say, oh, that must be exhausting. And people look at me like, I make no fucking sense in any way, shape or form. You're trying to speak the language.

1:50:52David Sims:It's like what Monty Python and the Holy Grail was. This limited canon of movies where you're like, it truly has 1 ,000 lines that you can repurpose into any conversation. The only thing I want to call out is in the meticulous sort of table mood setting of the bowling, you do get the introduction of the Jesus who is given the pomp and circumstance as if he is the Darth Vader of the movie.

1:51:15Griffin Newman:I mean, right. The fact that this movie is like, let's pause for a minute and do... Just for a minute, six minutes in. Right. And do, right, a whole Eagles underscore, you know, like do the whole thing for the Jesus.

1:51:29Seth Rogen:My favorite shot in the whole movie is the shot of John Turturro having to knock on the door of the guy to explain he's a pedophile. And like, it is truly, and honestly, it is beautiful visual storytelling. Like in Superbad, we directly reference it when there's a scene where McLovin's like explaining how he saw a girl in a thong in the hallway. Oh, yes, yes. And like that is a direct ripoff of that moment. The cutaway to something you could already imagine. Yeah, and that's very mundane, basically, and benign kind of. Yes. That's already being very specifically explained in the first place.

1:52:05David Sims:It's so funny. And him just being a little dressed down. Yeah, that he looks different.

1:52:09Seth Rogen:You see like in the bowling alley, he's a different guy kind of. He's sort of like a cool cock of the walk in the bowling alley. But in real life, he's a pedophile. He is. eight year old suit eight year old suit

1:52:20Griffin Newman:but right like that it's like all these men who are losers God bless them like this is right this is where they're happy but also and like this is where they're themselves

1:52:28David Sims:it's a movie of self-styled like mythology right that everyone is like here's who I am you know my thing here's my reputation they are people they are like sketch comedy characters in a real world

1:52:39Seth Rogen:Smokey's a pacifist right

1:52:41David Sims:everyone has their emotional problem their bits and their look and they're just like how dare you don't know my game

1:52:48Griffin Newman:him. Right. And then like Donnie is this kind of blessed, he's like the fucking pinball wizard from, you know, Tommy or whatever where you're just like, he's arguably the only

1:52:58Seth Rogen:normal character.

1:52:59Griffin Newman:Right. But also it's like, bowling savant. It feels like you couldn't have a conversation with him, like about anything. There's the read that he does not exist.

1:53:08Seth Rogen:Yes.

1:53:08David Sims:Really? Because no other character in the movie addresses him. We have this porch replica in our office, right? There's a replica of Ben's childhood porch that he used to watch movies on. We did an art show earlier this year. We built it as part of the installation. Very cool that you know what porch movies are.

1:53:24Seth Rogen:I know what some porch movies are. And then had it moved here to the office.

1:53:27David Sims:The guys who came and installed it in the office, I came in when they were finishing up. And they went, hey, what do you think about that theory that in Big Lebowski, Donnie isn't real? And I was like, what do you mean? And they were like, you know, you could go down this rabbit hole. There's this whole theory because only the dude and Walter ever reply to him that no one else ever acknowledges him. That'd be a weird shit. hallucination in which he exists. Right.

1:53:50Seth Rogen:When he dies, this funeral director gives them someone's ashes unless that guy's in on him.

1:53:54Griffin Newman:It's why it doesn't make any.

1:53:55Seth Rogen:It's not a good theory.

1:53:57David Sims:But I said to them like, oh, interesting. Yeah, we'll talk about that, I guess, when we do our Big Lebowski episode. And they went, oh, you're doing a Big Lebowski episode? And I went, why did you bring this up to me? And they were like, I don't know. We heard you liked movies.

1:54:09Seth Rogen:We heard you guys were in a movie. But it also speaks to the

1:54:12David Sims:proliferation of this film. Yeah. Right? That like two carpenters were just like, hey, you're a movie guy. Can I talk about Big Lebowski with you? That's the number one movie I want to talk about.

1:54:22Griffin Newman:Yeah. Well, because it is this movie that has like... It's kind of an art movie also. It has a mystical sense to it that you are like, what is it about? Is there something to solve here? Watch it a hundred times. Yeah, it is like

1:54:33Seth Rogen:the weirdest cross-section between like an art film and like an incredibly mainstream like comedy. Silly comedy.

1:54:39Griffin Newman:Yeah. Because like, if I describe the plot of the Big Lebowski or attempt to, it's like, the rug gets stolen he bugs the Big Lebowski about it and then because that connection is made the Big Lebowski tries to use him to recover those guys stole the rug because they thought he was the Big Lebowski he realizes he can use this idiot

1:55:00Seth Rogen:to embezzle money to himself

1:55:02Griffin Newman:stealing a million dollars from his own and he's going to use

1:55:08Seth Rogen:and he knows his daughter keeps track of the money so he had to concoct a plot in order to account for a million dollars that he's trying to steal.

1:55:16David Sims:His young wife has gone missing on vacation, but her nihilist friends have seized it as an opportunity to pretend that they're holding her ransom, which he seizes as an opportunity to launder his own money. Exactly, yes. To give it back to himself, away from the fund that his stepdaughter actually managed. It's a weird plot. Or she's his biological daughter? It is his biological daughter.

1:55:37Griffin Newman:The dude is progressing through things one step at a time, so he's always like concerned about whatever. Like we lost the bag. We need the briefcase. But obviously at no point does money change hands. At no point is there money for him to have. It's a briefcase full of phone books. At no point is Tara Reid in trouble. Nope. The only person who loses a toe is a nihilist and she doesn't care about anything.

1:55:58Seth Rogen:She sacrifices it. She sacrifices it. But she's mad about it. The great any man. She is pissed off about it.

1:56:02Griffin Newman:It could be yes. Iconic no dialogue or she says pancakes or something. She says pancakes

1:56:08Seth Rogen:and Walter says I thought you guys were nihilists.

1:56:10Griffin Newman:One of my favorite one of my favorite things is of course that John Pulido is watching all of this happen in another movie essentially pretty good movie over here and he seems to be from like the 50s the one of the best gags of the Big Lebowski is the picture of the farm where he's like we think it'll make our home sick and it looks like some fucking dust bowl picture industrial yeah right but also

1:56:34David Sims:his pinto it's like this spectrum of right he's driven from another time everyone at the center of a story like this wants to think they are, right? Polito is who they actually are. Yeah. And Lebowski is the guy who doesn't even want to be in it.

1:56:48Seth Rogen:Polito's so funny.

1:56:49Griffin Newman:He's so fucking funny, and God bless him. The way his whole stance he's in

1:56:54Seth Rogen:when he thinks he maybe has to fight the dude really made me laugh.

1:56:58Griffin Newman:I mean, one of the funniest things about Polito in this movie, right, is also him just being like, are you a genius to the dude?

1:57:03David Sims:And the dude's kind of like, yeah, maybe. In the Miller's Crossing episode, I was talking about how they didn't want to audition him for Miller's Crossing. Right. They knew him as a pretty boy actor. Well, I was going to say, also, like, I've met John Pulido.

1:57:16Seth Rogen:God bless this. Few people are more different from how they are in their life. Oh, really?

1:57:21David Sims:Was very even-keeled. No. He was, like, extremely flamboyant.

1:57:27Seth Rogen:Huh? He was an outlier, though. He was married. But, like, an incredibly, like, flamboyant game. It's not old-fashioned. Yes, and not, like, a tough Italian. He was like John Waters. Yeah. Like, he was like Harvey Firesteen. Like, literally. Like, in such a lovely, disarming way. I think he auditioned for something we were doing. And, like, I just remember him, like, sort of, like, perching himself, literally, like, on the end of the thing, being like, what's the direct? Like, it was adorable. Like, there's no better word for it. He was absolutely adorable. And I'd only known him from these movies.

1:58:04Seth Rogen:It only makes me love him more. You expect this guy to walk in. Hey, how's he doing? What are you doing? And he was like, hello.

1:58:12David Sims:What's your correction about John Polito? No, I said that he had been a pretty boy actor and they didn't want to audition him. They wanted him to audition for The Dane because when they had last seen him, he was very skinny and had a lot of hair. And many people on the Reddit got upset. Because he never had hair. He never had hair.

1:58:26Griffin Newman:He was skinnier and a little more...

1:58:29David Sims:There is pretty boy Polito you can find in earlier crime movies. There's a tube he wears in like two or three, but it's even a receding tube in his early 20s. But then he just... Yeah, it's like one day he suddenly had this look and he was the perfect guy to play these characters that were so different than who he was.

1:58:45Griffin Newman:My big take on sort of the dude and Walter, right? Who are like, because like you watch the movie enough, you kind of start to be like, why are they friends? And then you watch it more and you're like, they have to be friends. Like they're essential to each other's like continued happiness, right? It's a yin and yang thing. They can't exist without each other. Walter hates like what's happened to him, right? He hates that the country isn't whatever he wants it to be, right like Walter it's just like grievances everywhere

1:59:11David Sims:that he basically lost his mind in service of a war that didn't matter that he lost his wife he lost his wife became Jewish he stayed Jewish right he stayed Jewish

1:59:19Seth Rogen:if you will

1:59:20David Sims:it is no dream according to Theodore Herzl and he has the QAnon energy of like how are you guys not angry about this like everyone should be screaming at all times

1:59:29Griffin Newman:also the energy of like he hears one thing and he's like it must be true right you know like where it's like she can have to herself is something the dude just idly thinks I can make the connections the dude like we all say is actually kind of like does get kind of grouchy and does get but he does have this vibe of like he stopped caring about changing the world 20 years ago like he was once you know a radical in the true sense

1:59:51Seth Rogen:he's given up at sea and now he's like can I just fucking chill out

1:59:54David Sims:but he's neurotic about his principle of trying to do

1:59:57Griffin Newman:as little as possible I know so many people like that especially when I was younger who were so aggro about how they had to chill out all the time yeah where you're like can you relax I need to chill out. You're messing with that. Like they would just always seem to be searching for some like sublime chill zone that they could not reach. Which takes so much effort, right?

2:00:18David Sims:It's part of his branding of the thing. It's like, why does he drink white Russians? It's because he needs to have a thing.

2:00:23Seth Rogen:Yes, he has a thing.

2:00:24David Sims:He needs everyone to call him the dude except the way he dresses, what he drinks, how much he doesn't want to deal with this bullshit. It's like this very purposeful. Like I knew a guy in high school who was bathrobe man. And it had that energy of he just wants to show up and be like, oh, this? I don't even think about it. Yeah. And you're like, there's so much. But you put a lot into this. And I'm sure it was, by the way, directly influenced by Big Lebowski. It must have been, yeah. But he was just the guy who showed up to the parties with the bathrobe and yet every night he would be making out with someone incredibly hot.

2:00:53David Sims:Yeah. And I'd just be like, how does fucking bathrobe man do it? And he just sold the narrative of what he represented strong enough in a way that when you're 15, people buy. And the dude exists in a universe where people can see through it enough because he's at an age where it's no longer cute.

2:01:11Griffin Newman:So I can't go through the plot scene by scene because we'd lose our minds. But the threads are like Julianne Moore as this kind of...

2:01:20David Sims:Performance art, but also visual art, kind of a Frasier Crane mid-Atlantic accent. Did you... What were you going to say?

2:01:28Seth Rogen:I was going to say, for whatever reason, one of the most... Like. One of the lines that always stuck in my head and was always so funny to me, and again, it's something I think as we were writing was very inspirational, is when David Thewlis is there. That's who I was going to bring up. And he just keeps laughing. And it's a line that has its own dedicated shot as well, which is just when he's standing next to David Thewlis, who's in the chair, and he goes, who the fuck is this guy? It's the only shot. there's one shot for that line it never goes back to that shot it's just a weird wide shot where you see the dude like head to toe standing next to the sky it's almost a meta joke of him saying like do I

2:02:12David Sims:need to learn another character this late in the story and let me now tell you the thing

2:02:16Griffin Newman:I was going to say which is they wrote that whole scene without that character and they were like this is kind of a lot of exposition it's boring what if a funny guy was sitting in the chair too let's add a weird British an incredible actor. Like, the most part. One of the greatest actors coming off of fucking Mike Lee's naked. He's like, can you sit in a chair and be, you know, annoying. like a fucking weirdo the entire time.

2:02:40David Sims:Did you see, Seth, did you see the reveal? And this goes to Ben as well. David Thewlis is in Avatar 3. He is. Yeah. He is a character that James Cameron has promised has a small part in 3, but it's the long play and he's really going to pay off in 4 and 5. Great. And they posted a photo of David Thulis Navi and I just sent it back to Sims, cropped close up on the lips and I went, they got the Thulis mouth right. They got it. The Navi has the Thulis mouth right. I'm around in a gyroscope. $200 million. Weta didn't sleep for months, but they cracked the Thulis mouth. They got his weird purse blips.

2:03:19Griffin Newman:Maud, apart from like knowing her dad is full of shit, knowing her like stepmother is full of shit. Like she also wants to get Jif, the dude's sperm.

2:03:28David Sims:She wants a child. But she wants a child that she has no relationship to the body father of. Right. To put it in the

2:03:34Griffin Newman:So is it just that like Jeff Bridges walks into rooms and people are like you are Jeff Bridges. It is. This is the thing. You are kind of a fucking star. I like that this movie acknowledges that even though

2:03:43David Sims:Jeff Bridges in 1998 is clearly putting work into trying to look worse. Trying to. He still is Jeff Bridges. He still looks great. He's got the greatest eyes in the world. His hair's great. Yeah. Fucking cool looking. Yes. He just looks cool. Yeah. Right. And she's just like, why not? This guy will never show up, and that's what I'm looking for.

2:04:00Griffin Newman:Right. It's like he's the perfect mix of good-looking, tall, but also would never bother me. And then what are the other threads? It's like Ben Gazzara for one scene is the great Jackie Treehorn. Who doodles himself with a giant cock.

2:04:14Seth Rogen:The funniest, maybe the funniest line to me after re-watching the movie is when they go to the guy's house, they find the paper in the car, and they go to the kid's house, and the father's in like the iron lung who's who is not even the creator but he wrote a lot of episodes of branded right right and he goes does he write still the lady goes no he has health

2:04:37David Sims:problems of walking into the house seeing the iron lung before you can even make out there's a person in it his little head immediately going that's him that's him and brandon is like a real fucking gun smoke also ran. It's like a shitty gun smoke, exactly,

2:04:57Griffin Newman:that ran for like, you know...

2:04:58David Sims:That was like more racist. It was called branded because it was about like fighting the Native Americans. Oh my gosh.

2:05:04Seth Rogen:Yeah, I think it was pretty racist. Yeah. And did they use the branded theme song later? Yes, I think so, right? It was the first time I noticed it was this time. Does he write still? No.

2:05:15Griffin Newman:I mean, imagine again, you're a critic at the time. You're again, you're here, like you saw Fargo, right? And like, because that scene is like an hour 45 into a two hour movie. Do you see what happens when you fuck a stranger? They have never made a very long film. All their movies are under 210. Yes. Almost all their films are under an hour 45 minutes. There's only a couple that are even longer. And like, I can imagine being baffled by like, wait, why do I need to watch this now? Like, you know, Walter going insane. Where is this going?

2:05:44David Sims:And it doesn't go anywhere. And you're like, the answer is the kid stole the car that sucked that got back to him. Right. And the briefcase is missing, which never had money in it anyway. Right. So it doesn't matter.

2:05:54Seth Rogen:Well, I think that's the answer. Where it goes is you kind of can see that there was nothing in the car. Nothing about it in the car.

2:06:02David Sims:The kid doesn't answer. And maybe if he had kept money, he would have been more protective and defensive even if he was not speaking.

2:06:11Griffin Newman:Like, that's the thing about the Big Lebowski. Like, the scene where the dude explains it to the two cops is so funny.

2:06:18David Sims:So funny.

2:06:19Griffin Newman:Right, they're like,

2:06:19Seth Rogen:good luck with that buddy. will. Right. That wraps up the case of that.

2:06:25David Sims:We're like, we'll have to take shifts on this.

2:06:27Seth Rogen:Yeah, he's like, you guys got any leads? Leads. Leads. They got us working in shifts.

2:06:34Griffin Newman:Yeah. And like all those scenes like ultimately when you pull the movie apart like, yeah, this is all meaningless or whatever.

2:06:42Seth Rogen:It's also funny, yeah, like it's in service of nothing. It's them colliding their own plot with reality from time to time. It's them acknowledging that. I was thinking, what are you up to? It's completely unimportant. Like, that it's all so trivial. And that, like, the cops don't care. No one cares. It's not important. The ultimate joke. The stakes are so low.

2:07:01Griffin Newman:The nihilists are the only people at the end of the movie who are like, where's our money? Because they care. They care deeply. They are betraying. We have body sacrificed. Where the fuck is our money?

2:07:12David Sims:In a way, I think it is the most pointed thing in this movie because, of course. Peter Stormare, of course, we haven't mentioned yet. Oh, it's amazing. Right after. Yeah. The doctor from Funny People. Yeah, the big tall guy. Yes. He was great. Yes. That's a real treat every time I go back and watch this film again, post Funny People.

2:07:30Seth Rogen:Yeah. In Funny People, we literally cast that man so we could make fun of him. You just do the run of like, it always feels like a diehard guy. It feels like a cheat in movies where you're like, you do a thing and then make fun of him. Dan Hartman's joke about, right, is it Ace Ventura 2?

2:07:46David Sims:It's Ace Ventura When Nature Calls. where the guy he's like that he's like yeah he actually you cast him that's the joke you don't get to make me think that your character is clever for making a joke about a guy you cast you cast to look like that guy

2:08:04Seth Rogen:that's what we do

2:08:07David Sims:but then I love that in funny people he gets the joke

2:08:10Seth Rogen:back yes he got like it yes

2:08:14Griffin Newman:to speak to the stoner thing we were saying before with the nihilists and the avant-garde artists. I love how in this movie it's like not making the joke about how they're weirdos. No. I like that they just kind of exist. Yeah. I really, I think as a kid I really appreciated that as I was like getting interested in being like a weirdo. Everyone in this movie is quote unquote a weirdo or on like the fringe of society. No one is nor, except for the occasional cops who will fruit them. The sheriff of Malibu.

2:08:44Seth Rogen:Yes. Once I was arrested by the sheriff of Malibu in Malibu. The real one? For smoking weed. And the whole time, it's funny, we were smoking weed on the beach in Malibu. What year was this? 2000. So weed was still pretty illegal in LA. And we were smoking weed on the beach. And we kept joking that we were a little big Lebowski fans. We're like, oh, the sheriff of Malibu is going to get us. Look over the sheriff of Malibu. And then literally next thing, there's flashlights pointing at us. And they're like, freeze, sheriff of Malibu, don't move. We're like, oh, no, they actually got us. Stay out of my beach community.

2:09:16Griffin Newman:that then with the I really hate the fucking Eagles right after that it's such a great like in another movie this is like a really low point for him and like that's the dude's actual lowest point he has to listen to the Eagles after getting a cup one another thing we stole

2:09:29Seth Rogen:for Pineapple Express was and like I think I remember showing our stunt person was when he gets the mug thrown at his head and there's a scene where I don't know how they did that it's just a rubber mug with a sound I guess so like there's a scene where I get where someone throws an ashtray at my head. Yes, that's right. And it's like, I remember we showed them that. We were like, we want it to look exactly like this. Like, we want it to look in fear. And just like how when I watched that, I was like, oh, like, that's what we want is for that exact thing to happen.

2:09:59David Sims:The thing that, for me, makes that moment land so hard, and I don't understand how he does this on a performance level, it's like Bridges is reacting on a two-second delay.

2:10:11Seth Rogen:Yes, yes, yes. Right? It doesn't feel like mistiming.

2:10:15David Sims:It feels like this guy is so stoned that it takes a little bit longer for his body to communicate with itself. You know who lives in Malibu? Iron Man. Jeff Bridges didn't like him either.

2:10:25Seth Rogen:No, he didn't like him either. He's got a long storied history.

2:10:28David Sims:You know who else lives in Malibu? B-Rad. B-Rad from Malibu's Most Wanted, a film he once accused Ben of liking. One of the rudest things you've ever said to me. When Ben is like five drinks in, he'll be like, do you remember that fucking time assumed I liked Malibu's

2:10:43Seth Rogen:once I was at a I used to do these like writers round tables where you'd punch up a movie and I was punching up it was for Big Mama's House 2 sure and job done exactly and we were in like a production office so there's all these posters on the walls and I was with my friend Jenny Connor who's a writer and she like to the table was like, you know, it's always a red flag when you come into a fucking production office and the poster for Malibu's most wanted to be on the wall. You put that one up. And the director of Big Mama's House 2 went, I directed that movie. And it rocks. Yes, he was very insulted.

2:11:27That is really funny.

2:11:29David Sims:I just think it is one of the funniest franchises because the setup of the first Big Mama is he's got to dress like this woman. This woman. needs to be monitored. So you have to dress up as her mama, right? And go undercover as her great aunt or whatever it's supposed to be, right? And then two and three, two is, once again...

2:11:51Seth Rogen:It's about jewel thieves or something.

2:11:52David Sims:Yes, you need to go undercover at like a women's college to bust a jewel thief run. Maybe you should whip out that old mama costume. You got that mama suit.

2:11:59Seth Rogen:We invested$500 ,000 in that mama suit.

2:12:02David Sims:He's now married to Neil Long. He's adopted her son, right? And it's like, and I'm going to just go out and pretend to still be your mama. Big Mama 3 is, hey, Nia Long, son, it's time you take up the family business. Pretending to be mama. Not just dressing up as an old lady, but like. Specifically mama. Mama is important to American crime. Taking down these rings. Mama works. Mama works. Mama plays. Mama's effective. I want to say, to Ben's point, especially at this point in time, The Coen brothers get hit a lot with this idea, this criticism, especially from their skeptics of like, are they just fucking nihilists?

2:12:43David Sims:They put a bunch of dumb characters on a board. They make fun of a crime movie in which nothing matters and people die and everything was kind of pointless. And they're mocking everyone. And the nihilists in this movie are the only characters who are like doing something. Right? They're the only ones who care. Right. are trying so hard to sell the idea that they don't care and have other people repeat the idea that they don't care and that's their defining characteristic and yet they're willing to like fucking lose toes to make money. They just want money. Right. Which I think like if they want to make another record like they want to do right.

2:13:20David Sims:But in the name of what you're like what we're saying of like this is a movie that feels like the Coen brothers were willing to die to make it's a movie about like no we like all these people. We find these characters interesting. These movies are not condescending. We are not nihilists. Nihilists are kind of like broken. Yeah. Right. If you actually don't care about anything, what are you covering for? No one just naturally doesn't care about anything. And that this movie is a bunch of people who have their own things they want to do. And they're all just fighting each other for how to get to it.

2:13:50David Sims:But all of them are just like, I want to be seen as this philanthropist. I want to be a performance artist. I want to be the ultimate chiller. You know, I want people to view me as an American hero. You know, Jesus wants to be the greatest bowler rather than the greatest pederast. Sure. Like,

2:14:04Griffin Newman:everyone has this sort of sense. I get that. I mean, it's so sweet. It's so sweet at the end that Walter starts talking about Vietnam. Like, obviously, it's sad that he can't let it go and it's weird. It messes up Donnie's sad little funeral and the dude justifiably gets mad at him. But you do feel for Walter that he's like, I don't understand why bad things it happened to me.

2:14:28David Sims:It's the great Vietnam thing. Right. Like young men were told they had to do this thing that then like the world said like this was bullshit and it never should have happened. Right. And you're like, so what were my scars for?

2:14:39Griffin Newman:And then like the movie ends with the stranger like, you know, being like, hey, how you doing? You know, and the dude's like, the dude abides and I'm chilling out. And you do feel like comfort in that. And the stranger being like, it's nice, right? I guess it's good, the dude abides. I guess it's good.

2:14:51Seth Rogen:It's comforting knowing this guy's just out here.

2:14:54Griffin Newman:It's all worked out. And then like, you know, another, a little Lebowski's on the way, so it's sad Donnie had to die, but life keeps moving on. And I feel like it's a hopeful movie. It's meaningless.

2:15:06David Sims:It had nothing to do with the plot machination. Well, maybe he got a little worked up. They think he was shot. No, I know. People think he was

2:15:13Seth Rogen:shot? I'm saying in the movie, in the scene, they're like... Well, he also missed for the first time. And then he's sort of fucking with his hair. He knows he's off. He knows there's something going on. Something's going on.

2:15:24Griffin Newman:Buscemi's so good in this. Buscemi's incredible. Like just the joke of them being like, Busemi, sorry. I always say Busemi. Like of them being like, you won't have any dialogue in this movie, basically. And him being like, yeah, that's fine. I'll still create like a character. You'll talk a lot, but you'll never be heard. Right.

2:15:41Seth Rogen:Like the opposite of Fargo. You're going to yell that all the time.

2:15:44David Sims:He's so good. And it's kind of like invisible, like yeoman's work. Cause you're like, the point is to do the thing that feels like it doesn't matter.

2:15:51Seth Rogen:It's also amazing in comparison to what he just had done in Fargo. Where like, he doesn't shut the fuck up. He's like a fucking rat-a-tat-tat-tat-tat-tat energy that, like, yeah, dominates the entire movie. Reservoir Dogs was a few years before that. Like, he's sort of known for being this, like, smarter than everyone, kind of more clever than everyone.

2:16:10David Sims:He's usually kind of playing the Walter, the guy who is getting so worked up about it.

2:16:14Seth Rogen:Exactly, yeah. Angry, aggressive, in a comedic way. But then, yeah, in this, that he's just sort of like the dopey guy who's a step behind all the time.

2:16:21David Sims:It's so good. Have you ever worked with Goodman? I was trying to do this calculation in my head. I don't think I've ever met John Goodman.

2:16:29Griffin Newman:He feels kind of hard to pin down in a way. Yeah, McBride got him.

2:16:34Seth Rogen:He's had him for years. McBride got his ass. He's doing great work with him. But no, he to me was like, honestly, when I started acting, he's one of those people I looked at. It's like, oh, he's like evidence I could perhaps be a professional actor.

2:16:49David Sims:No, in this rewatch, it's why I wanted to ask you this. I was like, is he quietly a humongous influence on you as an actor?

2:16:58Seth Rogen:Absolutely. And like really was channeled. And it's funny because for years I wanted to be Jonah in Superbad or the Seth role in Superbad. And my take on it was very much derivative of Walter, like Teen Walter. What the fuck? Just screaming at people. What are you talking about? Just kind of always so angry that like no one's quite on my rhythm or like following what I want. wish everyone was following and and jonah found honestly was probably like a much more endearing way of doing it than what i imagine i would have done but it was very inspired by john goodman and i i loved him and and like roseanne i was a huge fan of and thought he was so funny and you know

2:17:38David Sims:king ralph i was a big fan hey we just we just did a big king ralph live show in tribute of ben's

2:17:43Seth Rogen:respect for the king i like that movie yeah it's a funny movie the whole royal family dies in the opening. Nothing funnier than that.

2:17:51David Sims:Funny is the most. Good bit. Yeah, it's a pretty good bit. David, in your I don't know if you know about David's brackets. Your brackets? Or his spreadsheets, I'm sorry.

2:18:01Seth Rogen:Okay.

2:18:01David Sims:But that David has spreadsheets for every years of the movies he has seen and what he would nominate in every category at the Oscars. Amazing. You gave Goodman two best supporting actor wins, right? Yeah. It's this and Barton Fink?

2:18:13Seth Rogen:Correct. I think those are just. He's also been a Barton Fink. Like, Barton Fink's not a movie I particularly respond to.

2:18:19Griffin Newman:Interesting. Yeah. I've been seeing it a long time. That's because you've bent Hollywood to your will. Exactly.

2:18:26Seth Rogen:I honestly think it's one that I don't, I honestly think I just don't fucking get it. Like, I don't think I get this movie. I love Barton Fink,

2:18:33Griffin Newman:but I do have him, yes, as my best supporting actor of 1998. That is absolutely the case.

2:18:38David Sims:He's incredible in both of them. They both feel like they should be like, if not career cappers, because obviously he had so much more work to do, but like congratulations we acknowledge you and it's just crazy that we're like 30 years later and he still remains like one of the most grossly unnominated not just for Oscars but you're like he won one Emmy for fucking Studio 60 on the Sunset Strip that's insane that's the only time they ever gave it to him John Connor

2:19:04Seth Rogen:he never won for Roseanne

2:19:05Griffin Newman:he's so good on this show he's why Roseanne is the best I mean we love Roseanne we love like it's why the Connor still rips

2:19:12Seth Rogen:yeah it's like He's so amazing on that show.

2:19:16David Sims:Yeah, but you watch this and you're just like, this is an astonishing performance that I was about to say no one else on the planet could do, but Mel Gibson could do it in a way that would... Mel Gibson could have done it pretty well. Changed laws earlier.

2:19:27Griffin Newman:The fuck off, Donnie! The fucking look on his face after he rolls out of the car and the Uzi goes off and it's just like him kind of deadpan looking off in the distance. It's so funny. He is so good every time he has to admit he's wrong but won't do it but kind of will just sort of like go quiet.

2:19:44Seth Rogen:He kind of doesn't care. He's like, whatever, dude. Fuck it, let's go bowling. Fuck it, yeah. It's like he instantly diminishes his own failures immediately. Like right away, he's able to write off his own shortcomings. Whatever.

2:19:56David Sims:When he does his big outfit change into the sort of like covert military fatigues, right? He's been doing his sort of like flak jacket, like full Milius thing. Yeah. And now it's like we're on a secret mission. I need to be still. And then going to the sort of businessman mode at the end.

2:20:10Seth Rogen:And this is what happens when you fuck a stranger in the ass is like one of the all-time

2:20:14David Sims:great comedic scenes in a movie. And also one of the great weird TV censorship edits of all time. What do they say? The cable version of this movie and that line gets repeated so much is this is what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps, which is weird as a one-off statement, but when he has to say it 10 times, it's insane. It starts feeling hallucinatory.

2:20:36Griffin Newman:It's funny because, right, this, I guess, is a cable classic, but I think of it as also...

2:20:40Seth Rogen:This is what happens when you fight a stranger in the Alps.

2:20:43Griffin Newman:That's pretty good. As he punches a kid. That's good. Like, it's a DVD classic to me. Like an early DVD, right? Yes. Like this was a movie everybody had on DVD.

2:20:53David Sims:It's part of the proliferation of what you're saying of like, there wasn't a big canon of stoner movies. This movie is like cresting at a point where it's like, DVDs are cheap, available. Every college student has a player because they either have a video game system or a computer or a TV or whatever it is. and this movie's on Comedy Central all the time. It's on basic cable.

2:21:12Seth Rogen:And there's like theaters that are doing like Lebowski Night and shit like that. Like right away. Within two, three years. It's like they're serving white Russians showing up in robes and shit. Yeah. Like that was happening a lot. Yeah.

2:21:22David Sims:My other favorite TV edit line is of course Scarface where in the original the first interrogation they go how do you get that Scar big guy and the line in the movie is eating pussy and the line in the cable edit is eating pineapple? And I like it because there is an internal logic to it. Sure. You're like, yeah,

2:21:42Seth Rogen:you could, you just shoved your face in a one.

2:21:45David Sims:If you didn't eat it right.

2:21:46Seth Rogen:Before we played the box office game. We used to spend a lot of time on those.

2:21:50David Sims:Yeah. So Kelly Clarkson, you said it was basically designed to be an adult. That was in the movie though. We used to,

2:21:55Seth Rogen:but I remember we used to, we would steal one from, I remember Melon Farmer was from, I think Die Hard maybe. Like I grew up watching John McClane sing, Yippee-ki-yay Melon Farmer. Yes. And that's in Pineapple Express. so in Pineapple Express. Instead of Motherfucker. But I actually think, I actually think we put it in the actual movie. I think Danny just says Melon Farmer in the actual movie itself.

2:22:14Griffin Newman:But yeah, we would try to get really creative. I will. Right, because like Four-Year-Old Virgin knocked up these movies where I was like, I can't believe it. The Freaks and Geeks guys are making movies. This is great. Pineapple Express was like, did this escape from a lab? That was a little bit more like, I can't believe this is allowed. We felt the exact same way. It's like a summer movie with a budget.

2:22:33Seth Rogen:We could have like machine guns and chases and shit like that. I watched Freaks and Geeks

2:22:37David Sims:like on broadcast on NBC when it aired, which took so much effort to track down where it was moving. Because it changed nights

2:22:44Seth Rogen:like three times. And even the summer burn off of the last couple episodes. Yeah, they would be off for three weeks and then came back.

2:22:50David Sims:And I was like, yeah, catching like episodes I'd missed on Fox Kids, going to the fucking Paley Center, then the Museum of Television and Radio to be like, I think I haven't seen four. That's so crazy. You know, Kim Kelly never aired. Kim Kelly's my friend,

2:23:01Seth Rogen:never aired.

2:23:02David Sims:Then I get that yearbook DVD my like freshman year of high school. That's what we all got. And it's like, finally I have control. I can rewatch it when I want. Also in high school. In order. With the commentaries and the context and all that. That also in high school, I get so into David Gordon Green and those first three movies. And when in like 2008, it's like there is an action comedy. Directed by David Gordon Green. What the fuck are you talking about? Like I had the same reaction, David, where I was like, this is actually just impossible.

2:23:29Seth Rogen:It was weird. It was very weird. Yeah. But honestly, we wanted them to be artful movies. And part of us were like the obvious version of Pineapple Express. just like a dumb stoner kind of action comedy. Get the director of Malibu's Most Wanted. Yeah, exactly. Literally. And we were like, we were big George Washington fans and we loved all the real girls and we were like, oh, what if we got a fancy indie guy to make this movie?

2:23:51Griffin Newman:But all the real girls. Again, that's what I mean. It's just like, who allowed this? All the real girls has those.

2:23:56Seth Rogen:The answer is Amy Pascal. God bless her. And what's funny, to her credit, she let us make the movie. She let us hire whoever the fuck we wanted. it. They never came to set. They never said anything. We were at the first test screening for the movie and like it played and tested very well. And there was like a moment early on where it's just like annihilating and Amy is sitting beside me and she turns to me and she goes, now I get this movie. And I was like, now you never got, we spent$25 million on this. We're at the test screening. And like, to her credit, she just trusted us. And she was like, I assume I'll get it eventually.

2:24:36Seth Rogen:And she did.

2:24:37David Sims:We talk about her a lot on this podcast. She's amazing. Because I think especially for us covering the 2000s and the 2010s of studio filmmaking and when sort of Blink Check movies were able to come out of these careers, you're just like, she was the one studio head where you can look at her and you're like, she took chances on people. She like developed movie stars. She identified people in places that people wouldn't have assumed. You could take this person there. Yes. and would just be like, I want to make things that are artful and commercial at the same time.

2:25:06Seth Rogen:Yeah, and actually, it's like exactly the opposite of how movies are made now, basically, which is, yeah, she would believe in an idea and you can balance it out or a person and allow them to go make a movie without every element being a sure thing, basically.

2:25:22David Sims:If we own Spider-Man, that gives us the latitude to be able to incubate some side projects and see what evolves. And to make like a$20 million movie

2:25:29Seth Rogen:and we're also making Men in Black 2 this year. Right, right.

2:25:32Griffin Newman:So it'll be fine. Yes, exactly.

2:25:34Seth Rogen:It'll ultimately be Men in Black 2. I mean, no problems with that one. Great movie. Balchinians. Are you kidding me? Old timer.

2:25:41David Sims:I did another, at Comic-Con, I did another, like, ten drinks in Can I Tell You the Pitch that Sims and I had for Men in Black 2. Yeah, sure, right. This is like a formative moment in Sims and I's friendship is we were at a bar. We broke the story. Men in Black 2 was playing on a par. It was years before we had the podcast and we were like, is there any version of this that works. And was there? We came up with one we thought was pretty good.

2:26:02Griffin Newman:The whole problem with Men in Black 2 is that undoing Tommy Lee Jones' triumph at the end of Men in Black 20 is hard. It just kind of fucks up the movie to begin with.

2:26:10David Sims:You want him to have his happy ending. So our answer was the movie is that he's basically Siobhan Fallon Hogan. That Jay is missing his partner. He gets told that an alien crashed and he needs to interrogate the witness. And the witness is the neuralized Tommy Lee Jones who's happily married. You just flip it. and it's like I don't believe in aliens

2:26:30Seth Rogen:that's a great idea that would have been good

2:26:32David Sims:and they get to team up and he's like I'm here with my best friend again who doesn't remember me but I don't want to neuralize him because I'm enjoying the time we're spending together and it's like midnight run it's them in three days trying to solve the case and the one guy's a skeptic

2:26:45Griffin Newman:I guess I mean like the problem with Men in Black 2 is instead it's just like go in this room be okay you're talking about you're back you're back but also it's worse than that

2:26:52David Sims:it's that the movie starts and they show up and he's like my wife left me I keep working at the post office

2:26:57Griffin Newman:fuck man Jesus

2:26:58Seth Rogen:we fought for this

2:27:00Griffin Newman:anyway Men in Black 1 great movie should we do final thoughts anything else you want to say about Big Lebowski before we play the box office game I want to shout out Dom Arrera he's really funny as just a little tiny cameo he plays the landlord the limo driver the landlord is also great the landlord's name is Jack Keller and he's in a ton of stuff but he's so fucking funny. He's one of the guys in the Austin Powers Spy Who Shagged Me run of dick jokes. He's the guy, I can't remember which one, but he's in the... I probably have the card for him.

2:27:37Seth Rogen:And to me, that little joke is also so reminiscent of being in Los Angeles, friends with people and you're like, oh, you gotta go to this weird show. He's gonna dress up and leave.

2:27:47David Sims:But you know what's a great character detail? That the landlord... That he goes and that he's eager to go. That's a great Bridges choice. that he doesn't play it as like, oh yeah, I'll go to that. He's like, yeah man, absolutely. Yeah, and then they go and they're not making,

2:28:01Seth Rogen:then like it clearly sucks, but there's not, they're not making fun of him. They're not really in their eyes. They're just happy. They're totally happy to support him.

2:28:07David Sims:You learn so much about the dude from the fact that he is the one guy who wants to go see his landlord's creative side product. Yeah, he goes. Who's eager to do it.

2:28:15Griffin Newman:He's also like appropriately horny, if that makes sense. Like he responds to all of the horniness coming at him with the right amount of horniness.

2:28:22Seth Rogen:Yes, he's not overly horny or underly horny. But also kind of like overwhelmed.

2:28:27David Sims:Like he's just kind of like, it all sort of happens to him. But he still wants to fuck.

2:28:30Seth Rogen:Yeah.

2:28:31Griffin Newman:It might be Tara Reade's best performance.

2:28:33Seth Rogen:Oh, she is great in it.

2:28:34Griffin Newman:Yes, she beat out Heather Graham for the role, which makes sense, I guess. Heather Graham just went boogie nice. Obviously the gag of the chair falling down, like him building the thing to block the door from being open. And then he drips the wrong way. I know it's simple, but I think about it all the time. It's a funny joke. Same with tree horn drawing, like, just a picture of something.

2:28:55Seth Rogen:The tree horn dick thing is one of the weirdest jokes.

2:28:57Griffin Newman:It's such a good encapsulation of the movie of, like, ah, a clue. A clue. No, no. It's just bizarre. Nothing matters.

2:29:05David Sims:But also, like, I will say, my mother always had a notepad near the phone growing up. Yeah, of course. Near the landline. My mom did, too. And I would look at it afterwards, and, like, 5 % of the time it was something that someone said. It was just doodling. Most of the time it was doodles. Yeah, it was doodles. And you're like, this guy would just doodle himself with a boner. That's what he would doodle. It doesn't mean anything.

2:29:24Seth Rogen:Oh, God. It's like the one time the dude does something smart. Right, he like notices that the dude... The one time... He's gonna put it... He doesn't realize he's being broke.

2:29:34David Sims:He couldn't do something. It goes into like Hitchcock vision for five seconds where like he's putting the pieces together. You see him like looking at it. I also just love that like all the wind up on Jesus is just to do the payoff at the end of him being angry that they still showed up at the bowling alley on the night they said they couldn't bowl. Yeah, exactly. You just expect that for some reason, this guy is going to factor into the plot in a major way at the end. And he could not be more relevant.

2:29:57Seth Rogen:Has anyone seen the Jesus spin-off movie? I can't bring it to watch it.

2:30:00David Sims:Seth, literally no one has ever seen it. Literally no one. John Turturro didn't see it yet.

2:30:04Seth Rogen:The weirdest thing about that. He was directed with his eyes closed. It's so crazy.

2:30:08Griffin Newman:Like Pete Davidson and John Hammer in it. Really? It's got like 10 big people. Because Turturro's friends with people. And it's like, yeah, making a movie. Stop by.

2:30:16Seth Rogen:I hate to say, if they asked me to be in it, I probably would have said yes. You should have fucking done it.

2:30:20Griffin Newman:The weirdest thing is that it's like,

2:30:22David Sims:it's a side quote to Lebowski where he basically went, because I think the story is that he used to do this character. He would do like character monologues as a version of this character.

2:30:33Griffin Newman:He was in a play and like, sort of had done something like this. And he was like, that's what I'll do. And they were inspired by that.

2:30:39David Sims:And then they sort of like write it in. And then he was like, sort of, since I kind of made the characters, it's like, cool if I do something.

2:30:44Griffin Newman:Well, I think the Coens are also like the dude showing up to his landlord. They're like, yeah, man. what are we that's their attitude with the Fargo show

2:30:51David Sims:and everything they're just like you do what you want to do it's fine right we're not afraid that our movie will be like corrupted by this but for years it would like he'd mention in interviews and people would be like oh there's gonna be a Lebowski sequel John Turturro's gonna write and direct a Lebowski sequel assuming it's a more straightforward thing and then it's like no he wants to remake a 70s French Gerard Depardieu sex comedy oh is that what it is it is it's this movie Going Places it's about a competition to see who can get laid more yeah that he decided

2:31:19Seth Rogen:but it's about eight year olds

2:31:21David Sims:that's the other thing the movie I think makes him like he's a pedophile I think he ignores that part which then you're like

2:31:28Seth Rogen:then what is the guy yeah I know one thing about him right two he likes bowling he's a pedophile he likes bowling and children yeah

2:31:36Griffin Newman:eight year olds dude this eight year olds dude this film came out March 6th 1998 last thing gotta shout out the Dylan song yeah the band

2:31:45David Sims:so good

2:31:45Griffin Newman:to your earlier point

2:31:47David Sims:of like songs getting repeated or repurposed. This is a weird pace of a movie that uses all songs that are not obscure and yet feels like it claims ownership of it. For sure. Right? Like it has that kind of like...

2:32:00Seth Rogen:What condition my condition was in.

2:32:02David Sims:Yeah, the man in me for sure. But it like does the risky business like old time rock and roll thing eight times where you're like, well that's now the song from The Big Lebowski. A song that had a reputation for decades.

2:32:13Seth Rogen:Yeah, the weird like mariachi version of Hotel California. Yeah, all of it. Well does it really like It is like a 90s Scorsesean or Tarantino-y and maybe they're the same thing type thing where it is like shamelessly aggrandizing of a character using needle drop and shots and slow motion. And I love it. And it's something we do. Again, it's like we do that like when Danny McBride shows up and this is the end. Like I literally remember showing RGP the sequence from The Biggled House. It's like this. It's like a musical interlude to introduce a new guy and we are like shameless about it.

2:32:50Griffin Newman:But it's perfect. It's like you copy what works like. Yeah. Steal from the past. All right. March 6th, Griffin, 1998. I don't know if that was the right. I don't know if there was a right time to release this movie. It doesn't really feel right. But no. Spring break.

2:33:03David Sims:Yeah. But this is right. This movie needed to exist in order for people to understand how it could exist. Yeah. It had to be the first.

2:33:11Seth Rogen:Yeah. It was taking a hit no matter what.

2:33:14Griffin Newman:Right. It opens to like $5 million, number six at the box office. It's released by Gramercy Pictures and makes, what does it make? $18 million.

2:33:27David Sims:It's a big flop and yet no one lost their shirt on it because they always kept

2:33:31Griffin Newman:their budget small.

2:33:32David Sims:And also probably sold like 4 billion DVDs. Now I am sure it is one of the 10 most profitable movies in the Universal Library.

2:33:39Seth Rogen:At this moment in time any movie made $30 to$40 million on DVD sales basically. It was like guaranteed. If it's a movie you've heard of, it made$30 million.

2:33:48Griffin Newman:And this one possibly made like$300. Right. What's number one at the box office, Griffin? It's been number one for three months. Fuck. It's Titanic. Titanic. It won't be knocked off for another month. For three months. Yeah. Isn't that crazy? Fucking nuts. It's just like, yeah, forget it. Lost in Space comes out in April, end of April. Lost in Space is the movie that knocks it off. Oof. I saw that on Strooms. That's not a good one to see on Strooms. No, it was a real bummer. You're going to turn into a spider monster. It was a lot scarier

2:34:14Seth Rogen:than we thought it was. Exactly. It's like dark and metallic. I remember we were like, this is a mistake.

2:34:20David Sims:So, Man in the Iron Mask and Spice World come out in January and February and those were the two that people thought could dethrone Titanic. They're gone. They're gone. At this point, it's like Titanic.

2:34:30Seth Rogen:I saw all these movies.

2:34:31Griffin Newman:You got four new releases in this top ten. Big Lebowski is the lowest of them. So, number two at the box office is a sequel to a huge action movie under C.J. Marshal territory. Great movie, but no, it is U.S. Marshals, which is a bad movie.

2:34:46Seth Rogen:Yeah, yeah. With Robert Downey Jr. With Robert Downey Jr. Can we do The Fugitive

2:34:51Griffin Newman:without Harrison Ford? Just have Tommy Lee Jones chase a new guy. Wesley Snipes. Right. With

2:34:56Seth Rogen:Robert Downey Jr.

2:34:57Griffin Newman:Robert Downey Jr. is the bad guy? No, he's like the third man.

2:35:01Seth Rogen:He's like the assistant. He's like Tommy Lee Jones is like new. He's the new Jolie Pants.

2:35:05Griffin Newman:That's Robert Downey Jr.'s like, I don't, I was not conscious while filming. Yeah, he's like, this was like

2:35:11Seth Rogen:Heroin Fever Dream.

2:35:12Griffin Newman:And you're like, this is still maybe one of those You still kind of crush every line in your throat. Because that's the whole thing where I like, Ali McBeal was like one of the first times I was exposed to him and I was like, this guy's a genius and he's like, no memory of ever making it on a show. Do not know I did that. I thought I was in Bulgaria. Okay. Number three, the box office, great movie, comedy hit. Okay. Big star kind of early in his run. Yeah, for sure. I've been out for a month.

2:35:37David Sims:Early 98, so it's a February 98 release.

2:35:41Griffin Newman:sure yep it's made 47 57 million dollars it's gonna make 80 it's gonna end up at 80 yes February and it's like the start it's not the start of this guy's career he's been around

2:35:51Seth Rogen:it's an Adam Sandler movie it's like Big Daddy or something it's not Big Daddy

2:35:55Griffin Newman:it's Wedding Singer

2:35:56David Sims:it is kind of that is the level of

2:35:59Griffin Newman:because Wedding Singer is kind of like Sandler like it's like yeah not just dumb yeah it's like good I mean I love Happy Gilmore and Billy Madison it was like oh you can kind of do something with some drama

2:36:08Seth Rogen:I think it's probably his like best reviewed of those movies.

2:36:11David Sims:It was kind of the crossover because it was like, oh, he can be a viable romantic lead. He's playing a little bit more of a human being. It's like the first one

2:36:17Seth Rogen:they sort of take seriously a little bit in any capacity. It's a good movie. But it's like,

2:36:22David Sims:Billy Madison and Happy Gilmore were received similarly. Then this was sort of like, the guy's got emotion and then six months later, Waterboy comes out.

2:36:31Griffin Newman:Right, it goes Waterboy and then Big Daddy.

2:36:32David Sims:Waterboy is October 98 and then Big Daddy's the following man. God, he was fucking crushing it.

2:36:36Griffin Newman:He was unstoppable.

2:36:37Seth Rogen:He was on fire.

2:36:38Griffin Newman:Yeah. He was on fire. he's more on fire than ever before he might he might be winning i was out with aziz and we were

2:36:49Seth Rogen:having dinner and we were like we were talking about adam sandler and we just like our our our waitress was like you know like a 25 year old woman and we were like who's your favorite comedian adam sandler right away we go to like the coach who's your favorite comedian and like and it's almost it's not it's almost like they don't know there's another one and like like Me and Aziz are like, you're getting asked this question by two famous comedians and you don't even think of naming them. Out of politeness, they didn't even consider it. They're just like, oh, Adam Sandler, fuck you guys. Not even close.

2:37:22Seth Rogen:Do you know what the other part of it too

2:37:23David Sims:is like he's the kind of guy where like who's your favorite comedian? Eddie Murphy. And you're like, Eddie Murphy's like an actor who does comedy movies now. He's not like generating comedy in the same way. Sandler does. Sandler fucking does comedy again.

2:37:33Seth Rogen:And he's still so funny.

2:37:35Griffin Newman:Oh God, that special is so good. He's so funny.

2:37:38David Sims:He's done three specials in the last 10 years? Yeah, and they're so funny. They're amazing. Sandler's the man.

2:37:43Seth Rogen:Yeah, he's the best.

2:37:45Griffin Newman:Number four. Yeah, number four. Also new, hard-boiled neo-noir thriller with gigantic movie stars that is now remembered for only one thing.

2:37:54David Sims:It's not 8mm. It's remembered for one thing. Is a thing meme-ified in it? It's a thing his character knocked up with now. Okay, so it's got a nude scene.

2:38:03Griffin Newman:Yes.

2:38:04David Sims:Yes. Okay, two giant stars, early 98. Three giant stars. Is it Twilight? Yes. Three Academy Award winners.

2:38:11Griffin Newman:Reese Witherspoon gets naked in it is what's the only thing. Who's in it? Paul Newman, Gene Hackman, Susan Sarandon. Directed by Robert Benton. Right, the guy who made Kramer vs.

2:38:21Seth Rogen:Kramer. Yeah, that's amazing.

2:38:22David Sims:But David is correct. The only reason I know that movie exists is because Reese Witherspoon gets naked. Is because in 2003, I googled Reese Witherspoon nude and there was only one result.

2:38:31Griffin Newman:I mean, it's also got like Stockard Channing and like John Spencer. Lots of great actors. We have Schreiber Stack Pass. I don't know this movie I don't know what it's about It's like a What's it called? Twilight Yeah that's the other thing It's now un-Googleable Yes you can It's impossible to find I know nothing about it

2:38:45David Sims:Other than the fact that I've seen one scene from it 200 times 200 ,000 times

2:38:49Seth Rogen:Yeah

2:38:49Griffin Newman:I know that scene very well It's funny because Gene Hackman was a guy They wanted for The Big Lebowski And he was like I'm kind of not making movies Right now And it's literally Opening against a Hackman And Twilight was a bigger hit Well by about $500 ,000 They're all making about Five What does Twilight end up at? Twilight, which is not a movie I never remembers, ends up at, come on, the numbers. 15 mil.

2:39:12Seth Rogen:So Lebowski kicked its ass.

2:39:15Griffin Newman:Number four at the box office, another kind of forgotten movie, is like a erotic thriller about like, I mean, I've seen it. I saw it like on VHS a million years ago. You know, Lady Marries, there's like a mean mom. Lady Marries a guy and the mom is bad. The mother-in-law? Yeah. Yeah. Mother-in-law. It's an erotic thriller with an evil mother-in-law? Either evil mom and the female leads are like an established Oscar-winning actress and like an up-and-coming about-to-win-an-Oscar winning actress. Huh. 98. I don't know if you'll know this movie. So it's like three big stars.

2:39:49David Sims:It's the new husband. It's two big stars. No, the husband is a guy who never... The husband's like a Billy Campbell or something?

2:39:55Griffin Newman:I mean, I feel bad saying that, but yeah.

2:39:57David Sims:Is it Billy Campbell? No. No. No. Here's how I know when it's a Billy Campbell movie. David goes, the star this, you're never going to guess it. And I go, it's a Billy Campbell movie. The third lead in this, it's someone you're never going to guess. That was the Rockets. It's Billy Campbell. Okay. Okay. The actress, she's going to win an Oscar.

2:40:17Griffin Newman:She wins an Oscar for a movie this year.

2:40:19David Sims:It's not Gwyneth. It is Gwyneth Paltrow. It's a Gwyneth mean mother-in-law erotic thriller?

2:40:25Griffin Newman:People just don't remember this movie. Is it a perfect

2:40:27David Sims:murder? It's called... Right, that's Michael Douglas.

2:40:30Griffin Newman:Michael Douglas and... That's like a dial-in for murder. Yeah.

2:40:34David Sims:What is this movie?

2:40:35Griffin Newman:The movie's called Hush.

2:40:37Seth Rogen:Oh, yeah. I've heard of that. There's another movie. Also another movie called Hush, I think. Which is a good movie. Flanagan, right? Yeah. Which confuses the marriage on that.

2:40:45Griffin Newman:Fucks up the SEO. Jessica Lange is the me mom. Yeah. I have no memory. God bless this man. Jonathan Shaikh. The guy from that thing you do.

2:40:54Seth Rogen:Jonathan Scheech. Scheech. Scheech. I think it's pronounced.

2:40:58Griffin Newman:It's Jonathan. Excuse me. That's when Hollywood finally was like, junk this guy. It's his fucking name. Like, the guy had a totally good career. I don't mean to shit.

2:41:10Seth Rogen:Was married to Christina Applegate.

2:41:11David Sims:Nice work if you can get it.

2:41:12Seth Rogen:She was almost Christina Schick. She thought about it for five seconds. She thought about it. Like, oh, Schick, Appleschick, Christina Schick.

2:41:20Griffin Newman:Right, yeah, hyphenate, maybe. Applegate Schick. Number six is Big Lebowski. Number seven is Good Will Hunting, which is also hanging out. What's it up to at this point? Wow. And it gets to 130? I don't know. See, that's fucking crazy. Yes. It's fucking March. Yeah. It got to 140.

2:41:39Seth Rogen:That would never happen in a hundred million years.

2:41:42Griffin Newman:And it came out in September. No, I mean, what would have happened by now, like this year, is Good Will Hunting would have been released for free to your phone without you even asking. Exactly. Forget VOD. They would have just been like, oh my God, just put it on TikTok. The modern version of this is Good Will Hunting

2:42:00David Sims:comes out in four theaters in September. Yeah, right. And by March, at the time of the Academy Awards, there's already three spinoff streaming series.

2:42:07Seth Rogen:Yeah, exactly.

2:42:08David Sims:And the show has been directly loaded onto your brain since the day after it came out. Wow.

2:42:14Griffin Newman:Number eight, along the same lines, is James L. Brooks' As Good As It Gets, a very good movie in my opinion. Best picture that year. Do you think it's... It was nominated. It lost to Titanic.

2:42:23Seth Rogen:Oh, but did he... He was. Jack won and Helen Hunt. And Helen Hunt.

2:42:26David Sims:Yeah. Do you think that movie is as good as it gets? I do. You think it's actually

2:42:31Griffin Newman:as good as movies? Great times. Noodle salad. Okay. Number nine is Dark City. Very underrated. It's a huge bomb, but a good movie.

2:42:39Seth Rogen:Is that Alexander? Alex Proyas. Alex Proyas. The crow guy. Yes. I like that movie. That movie rules. That was sort of like a pre-Matrix Matrix. Exactly. A little bit. They reused a lot of the sets,

2:42:50David Sims:I think. A lot of the rooftops because they also shot in Australia. Oh, that's funny. I think the opening, like Trinity Chase, is mostly Dark City sets. That's amazing. really good recent 4k release yeah I like that movie

2:43:02Griffin Newman:and then number 10 yeah yeah Jennifer Connelly yeah seen him on the stage he's a hottie number 10 is The Borrower speaking of John Goodman oh kids movie kids movie yeah but that must be a couple weeks in or did this bomb really fucking hard four weeks in and number 11 we gotta shout it out Crippendorf's Tribe anytime I ever see Crippendorf's Tribe Walt Disney released that man that's the Richard Dreyfuss inventing a tribe Pretends he's a finder's tribe. I did this trilogy. Disney was like, yes.

2:43:33Seth Rogen:Mr. Holland's Opus, Crippendorf's tribe. No, different trilogy. Really? That's not the same trilogy.

2:43:37David Sims:I had a head cold at some point last fall and I was like, I need some syllabus watching. Jungle to jungle. Jungle to jungle. Crippendorf's tribe. It's three Disney live action family comedies that reappropriate tribal and digital. Jungle to jungle.

2:43:52Griffin Newman:And the air up there. You know what? That's a good one. That would have been a good one. My third one one was Man of the House.

2:43:58David Sims:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is the Jonathan Taylor Thomas Chevy Chase movie that is all about their, like, scouts. Yes. It gets deep into the lore of what they're... The duology is really strong. In Man of the House, I'm kind of... I get it. I think Air Up There is a solid one, though.

2:44:13Seth Rogen:I think it's a good movie. It's a pretty good movie. I don't think it's a good movie.

2:44:16Griffin Newman:That movie is just kind of dramatic. Like, the thing about Air Up There is, like, oh, it's funny.

2:44:19Seth Rogen:It's a tone that doesn't exist anymore is what's funny about it. Is that a shelter?

2:44:24Griffin Newman:No. Or an Underwood? Is it an Underwood? It might be an Underwood. It might be an Underwood. It's not. No, directed by Paul Michael Glazer of Starsky and Hutch. And The Running Man.

2:44:32Seth Rogen:Yeah. There's these tone movies that just don't exist anymore, where you're like, they're not really funny. They're not really dramatic. They're sort of like somewhere in the middle. They cost like$20 million. And in 1998, they make$200 million.

2:44:48David Sims:Also, just like walking through the video store as a child and seeing that box and being like, here's all I need to know. Yeah. Kevin Bacon, not a comedy star, starring in something that's seemingly a comedy where he's up against a really tall African man and a basketball hoop.

2:45:02Seth Rogen:I saw that shit in theaters. I think I know what this is.

2:45:05Griffin Newman:He gets circumcised in it. That's the only thing I remember.

2:45:07Seth Rogen:I saw it on the double feature with Airborne.

2:45:10Griffin Newman:Airborne?

2:45:11Seth Rogen:The rollerblading movie. Well, you guys don't know Airborne? Airborne screams fucking balcony movie. Yeah, Porchville. Porchville.

2:45:20Griffin Newman:Do you know Airborne, Ben? Yeah, here it is. Yeah. This is kind of in like the three ninjas. Seth Green. Oh yeah.

2:45:27Seth Rogen:Jack Black. I wouldn't quite put it in three ninjas. Three ninjas I put in its own genre that I also love. I love masterpieces. I'd say it's like kids beating up adults. Yes, you're right. That is part of like the kids beating up adults genre.

2:45:39Griffin Newman:Kids, now is your time to get one over on the grown up.

2:45:43Seth Rogen:Kids setting traps for adults. I'd say that is that genre. Directed by Rob Bowman, who does X-Files Fight the Future. Jack Black's in it. Seth Green's in it. Edie McClurg? Yeah.

2:45:55David Sims:And the star of it,

2:45:56Seth Rogen:I don't think ever went on to do anything.

2:45:57Griffin Newman:Shane McDermott. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Seth Green is second build. Wow. Yeah, you don't want Wikipedia to not even have a link to your name, but that is true.

2:46:05Seth Rogen:Yeah, I think I saw the air up there in Airborne. Or no, maybe I'm thinking of Cool Runnings, which is another sort of... That's a Disney... ...questionable.

2:46:11David Sims:It's more respectful than the three I listed. This is a classic, The Thing You Love Sims. Airborne has three taglines.

2:46:20Griffin Newman:Oh, great. I love it when a poster can't decide what to tell you about a movie.

2:46:24David Sims:The poster is young guy and girl canoodling, right? And then above them are three inline skaters all in shredding air, right? In front of like a blue, like white cloud background. Wow, the taglines are so fucking crazy. Mitchell became the most popular guy on earth, dot, dot, dot, once he took to the sky. And once in sky are in a different font and a different color. Then second tagline...

2:46:48Seth Rogen:That's not what happens in the movie.

2:46:49David Sims:I'm sure not.

2:46:50Seth Rogen:He's not the most popular guy at any point.

2:46:53Griffin Newman:The second tagline is like rainbowing. It says, man wasn't meant to fly, kids were.

2:46:59David Sims:But it's like an arc about the canoodling head. And then the third tagline is the classic. The tagline leads into the title. Heroes aren't made. They're airborne. That's fucking genius. That's actually really good.

2:47:13Griffin Newman:Heroes aren't made. They're airborne. God, a lot of airborne. Taglines are fun. You don't come up with the taglines, right? like they tell you here's a tagline you've done that for pineapple

2:47:21Seth Rogen:put this in your pipe and smoke we came up with that we came that up with that as a tagline it's funny for super bad super bad had no tagline exactly they kept pitching us bad taglines and it was one of the things where we just like ran out the clock on it we're like if we just don't approve any of these maybe there won't be the title was kind of the tagline

2:47:38Griffin Newman:the whole thing of like your face what if this guy got you pregnant that was the tagline that made sense I got that

2:47:44David Sims:yeah a 40 year old virgin was there's always Better late than never. Better late than never. Which is also pretty good. Because like in the studio,

2:47:52Griffin Newman:which we should plug the studio now and everything else. A show our listeners, I think would not be able to lock in with, would mean nothing to them. The Ron Howard episode is tangential, but I do think like, it must be so awkward and you have to sit down and they're like, okay, so here's what we have. That's exactly how that goes. Posters and taglines. They show you them.

2:48:10Seth Rogen:And if you hate it,

2:48:11Griffin Newman:you have to be like, ah, shit. Yeah, yeah. I've been there.

2:48:14Seth Rogen:You pray there's something you like so you could at least sort of be positive. I think we all like that one. But no, I've come out of a lot of those meetings where, yeah, it's very bad. You start from square one. Yeah, and you're like, you have to start over. This is not good. That happens a lot.

2:48:32Griffin Newman:So, yeah, the studio. The studio. And it's returning, right? We're currently writing the second season.

2:48:38Seth Rogen:Fuck yeah.

2:48:39David Sims:Platonic.

2:48:40Seth Rogen:Platonic season two. And Sausage Party. You have two TV shows returning. one's on Amazon Amazon Prime Amazon Prime Amazon Prime Amazon Prime Amazon Prime and Platonic Season 2 is on Apple TV Plus when do they debut or do you know I'm not I don't what is the I think Sauce Party debuts this week maybe the 12th I think and I think maybe Platonic aired a couple days ago August 6th I think so yeah it just came back right absolutely yes by the time this is out maybe they'll both

2:49:08Griffin Newman:no but this is out in a couple weeks like

2:49:10Seth Rogen:it's all still available

2:49:12Griffin Newman:yep it's all in the soup yeah I don't know yeah anything else like what's the Seth Rogen movie we should plug that nobody has seen enough The Guilt Trip I push The Guilt Trip Take This Waltz Take This Waltz That's a good movie Sarah Pauli's very few people have seen that movie that movie rocks I love that movie but Guilt Trip like as a Griffin I will say he's not he loves that movie I haven't watched it

2:49:35Seth Rogen:since it came out

2:49:35David Sims:I think it's really good it might be maybe it is you've told that story about reading the script and it made you cry and being like I guess I gotta do this yes

2:49:42Seth Rogen:and then I and then making the film there, it was a little more conflicted.

2:49:48David Sims:I think it's still good and it got to me emotionally.

2:49:52Seth Rogen:Yeah, well, it is. I mean, Dan Fogelman wrote it who is like an objectively talented writer and I think there was a few, there's a few plot twists and turns in the movie that I would also say are like objectively effective. Like he's good at those. Yes, he is good at them, but I think the movie itself, I think maybe was not ultimately as good as it could have been in my opinion. But it was really fun for me. But I got to sit in a car with Barbra Streisand all day. She's so good in it. She's amazing.

2:50:18David Sims:And she never fucking does movies anymore.

2:50:20Seth Rogen:She doesn't do movies anymore. And I got to just be like, what was JFK like? Tell me stories about that. You ever meet Elvis? Tell me what he was like. It was great. And I would just do that all fucking day. It was wonderful. Yeah.

2:50:33Griffin Newman:Man, I just saw that. There's this interview with Mariah Carey with like, are you going to go to space like Katy Perry? And she's like, she went to space? Yeah, I saw that. And they're like, yeah, she went to space. Are you going to do that? She's like, I've done enough. That's how I imagined Streisandism. She's like, yeah, that was cool. I don't know. I've done a lot of stuff. She's done a lot of stuff. We'll plug Guilt Trip and take this waltz. Yeah, and everything. I had Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles recently.

2:50:55David Sims:We covered that on Patreon. I love that movie. Good movie. Ben kind of swears by the Church of Bebop and Rocksteady. I don't know if you know this, but David has young twins, and I have taken to codenaming them Bebop and Rocksteady, and I gave them Bebop and Rocksteady toys for their birthday.

2:51:09Seth Rogen:Oh, nice. We're also working on a sequel to that. coming along very well, I think.

2:51:14Griffin Newman:And Kellen, he participated in our...

2:51:16David Sims:Kellen Jet and Woodrow White, who were two of the big designers on the movie.

2:51:21Seth Rogen:They did an amazing job.

2:51:22David Sims:Yeah, they participated in our art show.

2:51:25Seth Rogen:Oh, that's cool.

2:51:26David Sims:Yeah, they did a painting of Ben as the bunny kid from Gummo. Oh, that's amazing. That I got for Ben's birthday. Kellen did that. It was very nice. That's a fun movie. Do kids know Gummo? They need to know Gummo. They need to. I'm trying to do as much as I can. Bring the kids Gummo. Can we rescind all your plugs for your own projects? and just devote the plug to Gummo. I'm more than happy to. If you're under the age of 25, the plug is watch Gummo.

2:51:49Seth Rogen:It's funny because it was a wild time in movies. Yeah. And there wasn't so many movies that these things went under your radar. If you were clued into movies, I remember at this time feeling like no movie came out, I was unaware. I never went to the video store and saw a movie I'd never heard of. 100%. And like Big Lebowski

2:52:11David Sims:wasn't an A24 movie. It was a failed attempt to make a mainstream crossover comedy.

2:52:16Griffin Newman:All of these streamers who, you know, employ Seth sometimes so we love them. But, you know, they like actively keep those movies from you because they're like, no, come on, you want one of these 40 movies.

2:52:26David Sims:Don't you want to get electric?

2:52:28Griffin Newman:Yeah. Well, yeah. Yeah. All right, come on, let's be done. Thank you for being here.

2:52:33Seth Rogen:My pleasure. This was great.

2:52:34Griffin Newman:Seth, thank you so much for doing this podcast. Thank you so much. That's very silly of you. I'm very happy to do this.

2:52:39David Sims:Okay. Ben, thank you for the White Russians. They'd be hitting.

2:52:41Griffin Newman:Yeah, they did hit.

2:52:42Seth Rogen:They're perfect.

2:52:43Griffin Newman:They were wonderful. They were well made, to be clear.

2:52:45David Sims:Just a good 1 p.m. White Russians.

2:52:47Seth Rogen:It's perfect.

2:52:48David Sims:I'm going to go back to my family? Yeah, exactly. Thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate, review, and subscribe. Tune in next week for Oh Brother. Yeah, right? That's their follow-up. Yeah. It is a bit of a gap for them.

2:53:00Griffin Newman:Not two years.

2:53:01David Sims:Okay. Great movie. Yeah. Our friend Emily St. James returned to the show. Yep. And as always, Seth, not to put you on the spot, but with this moment, this opportunity, is there anything you want to say? Perhaps any apologies you want to make to young Sammy Fable?

2:53:17Seth Rogen:Sorry for what I did to your family. You bought him a nice camera. I apologize.

2:53:27Seth Rogen:I should never have done that.

2:53:35Griffin Newman:Blank Check with Griffin and David is hosted by Griffin Newman and David Sims. Our executive producer is me, Ben Hosley. Our creative producer is Marie Barty Salinas. And our associate producer is AJ McKeon. This show is mixed and edited by AJ McKeon and Alan Smithy. Research by J.J. Birch. Our theme song is by Lane Montgomery in The Great American Novel. with additional music by Alex Mitchell. Artwork by Joe Bowen, Ollie Moss, and Pat Reynolds. Our production assistant is Minnick. Special thanks to David Cho, Jordan Fish, and Nate Patterson for their production help. Head over to BlankCheckPod.com for links to all of the real nerdy shit.

2:54:14Griffin Newman:Join our Patreon, Blank Check Special Features, for exclusive franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. Follow us on social at BlankCheckPod. Subscribe to our weekly newsletter, Checkbook, on Substack. This podcast is created and produced by Blank Check Productions.

2:54:31David Sims:Way out west. Nope. Nope. Nope. Way out west. Let's see. Just want to take another look at you. I got a Jackson Maine my way into this.

2:54:42Seth Rogen:I like your style.

2:54:44David Sims:I like your style, dude. But then I feel like, what am I getting? I'm getting into something else here. I like your style, dude. I'm now restrategizing based on how short an amount of time I think I can sustain this voice. Okay.

2:55:27David Sims:Bites me slow when network is busy. See terms.