True Grit with Stavros Halkias

8:08David Sims:Right. Oh, I haven't seen that. And everyone's like, this guy's cooked. And then like three years later, Joel Silver takes him out of the junk pile and is like, here's the formula. If we put you with a rapper, it works. And he had like

8:20Griffin Newman:four hit Seagal plus a rapper movie. What's crazy about those movies is like DMX acts him off the screen. DMX is like out of his gourd. I saw the DMX one in theaters. That's Exit Wounds. And it's pretty good. Cradle to the Grave. Cradle to the Grave. Is that DMX and Jet Li? that is DMX and Jet Li right yep yep I never saw that one but then there's a what is it called Half Past Dead yeah which is a great title that's what Ja Rule Ja Rule yeah oh I gotta throw that if only we had come across that in the DVD pile right that's Ja Rule and Morris Chestnut yes so who's the real actor by the way I've been talking about stuff that sucks I love another thing we would watch on tour is Watson Morris Chestnut sort of like what if House was also well what if house was watson from sherlock holmes it's tied into the shit it's more chestnut it's more chestnut and he goes back to being a doctor and moriarty is is a is yes

9:23David Sims:involved and like it's i think is randall park moriarty randall park is moriarty fuck and and like and you know the they have twins for no reason like they do the classic two of the people two of the hot shots, two of the hot shots, doctors that, you know. Oh my God, yeah. This guy plays identical twins. It's so bad, but I can't stop watching it. America can't stop watching it.

9:46Griffin Newman:It's so funny that we, I know it's because Sherlock Holmes is like public domain or whatever, that like every two years, someone's like, what if we do something with Sherlock Holmes? We literally did this rant. Okay, is it set in like Baker Street? On a recent episode. And it's like, no, it's set in Chicago. It's like, who cares? Pittsburgh, actually. We did this rant on a recent episode. Someone hasn't watched Watson. Not yet.

10:04David Sims:But like, first of all, you're saying that Watson is, what if House was Watson? What if, yes, what if Watson was a sexy black guy? No, what if House was a sexy black guy that used to also be Sherlock Holmes' assistant?

10:19Griffin Newman:But you know the whole thing. But didn't he say Sherlock Holmes? Yes. Did he say, like, I used to work in London? Right, in the show, Watson, he said. I did miss the first 12 minutes of the pilot. Oh, huge. So, apparently it's one year after Sherlock Holmes fell down the water. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's the thing. I caught it because it was playing after the NFL playoffs. Okay. You know, they were like, oh, after the AFC championship, we got to hit America. We're going to have a lot of eyeballs. We got to make sure people watch Watson. I had gone, you know, I was pissed off the Ravens lost, and I had gone and been fucking sad and whatever.

10:53I left. And then, or actually, wait, we lost before to the Bills. Actually, the tie-in to Haley Steinfeld, unfortunately, makes it, that's the only thing that does tarnish my fandom is that it's another reminder of the Ravens. Every time I look at her, it's like, oh, the Ravens haven't gone to the Super Bowl. Her husband has beaten us multiple times. But the Bills haven't gone to the Super Bowl either. You guys are joint losers. I do like Josh Allen. It reminds me of the grudging respect I have for a great rival of the Ravens. Even his wife is insanely talented. and it's like anyway whatever it took let's let's wrap up the watson convo before moving on to i you know it's important we finish this but i missed i missed the first 12 minutes but i was so the context clues think this movie this this show makes no sense with all the information but imagine being thrust into it and being like wait a second what he's fucking watson what sherlock homes where the fuck is sherlock and then you're like oh he died mori already threw him off i'm now finding a waterfall i didn't realize it was a waterfall i did see some there are some aquatic flashbacks so this actually makes a thank you so much uh for for making that clear david but yes i and i decided i'm never going to find out how it starts i just need to figure out through beautiful the economy of storytelling of watch and i'm going to figure it out that's how fucking

12:16David Sims:television used to work is the crazy thing to think about television used to be you started

12:21Griffin Newman:the episode of law and order midway through and you're like i guess this guy's the guy who did it I don't know. And you're like,

12:27David Sims:I guess I start watching the show from this point on. Yeah. And maybe reruns are playing at some point. And like seven years into watching reruns, you might be like, oh, this is the first episode. Yeah, I can't wait. You can't like just quickly backfill it. Exactly. You got that fucking Simpsons episode guide. You're like thumbing through it being like, I hope the B Sharps one comes on someday. Yes, yes. No, I hope someday, 12 years from now, I am on Tubi and the pilot episode of Watson comes up. It auto plays and that's what I'm finally watching. But it has to happen by chance. It has to happen by chance.

12:58It has to happen. No, I've become a Luddite, basically, where it's like, I'm on Tubi and I'm just letting, or I'll go to those random movie channels and I'll just like, you know, Inglourious Bastards was on one of those random movie channels. That's what I'm fucking watching. Just watch fucking 45 minutes of it. This is my whole thing.

13:12Griffin Newman:I don't need to detonate society. I just want to take us back to the 90s. You know what I mean? I think you could make so much money if the criteria on random is a little too random because it's like, look, I don't want to watch some fucking black and white Danish shit. You know what I mean? Half the random shit on there is like, all right, I get this is important. You're like, oh, let me throw it on. And it's just like Jesus carrying a cross in a silent movie. And you're like, well.

13:39David Sims:They just have the one criteria in 24-7. They need a couple to be like channels. They need like 70s noir or whatever. I think you would make so much fucking money if you, my big idea, and someone's going to steal it, is just essentially a hard drive and you load it up with a hundred bangers, right? Absolute fucking bangers. And of course, for me it would be like, you know, dumb guy core. It's like give me every fucking, give me all the Scorseses with guns in them. Give me all the like. None of the Scorseses with God in it. Yes, yes, yes. I don't want Daniel Day-Lewis to be like, ooh. Yeah, no disrespect to Age of Innocence, but that ain't going on my fucking hard drive.

14:19I'll watch it, but it's not what we're talking about here, right? Give me Michael Mann, give me like the Seagulls, all the rappers Seagulls. You should be able to click a box and be like, click a list and be like, I want 200 movies randomly playing on this hard drive and I could just hit component and it essentially gives you a rate. I think that would be, you would make so much fucking money. Criterion should even do it. Criterion should release random boxes and just be like, and I want it to be physical, right? Because also, I want the quality to be good. You don't want streaming to be a problem.

14:50You don't want buffering. You want like a

14:51David Sims:fixed, curated Roku stick. Yes, exactly. Exactly right. The fucking scanning through is a nightmare. I got to close the loop on this Watson talk, okay? And I want to just make it clear. We absolutely did this run at some point in the last four months and have already forgotten it. I totally forgot about it.

15:08Griffin Newman:Because he already played some other hot doctor called like Redwood. Morris Chester just has a show every five years where you're like, he still has an age? Cool. He looks incredible.

15:19David Sims:Did he play Iron Sight? We figured this out. No, no.

15:22Griffin Newman:Blair Underwood played Irish. Who's another guy who basically didn't crack. Oh, you want to talk about pieces of ass. One of the hottest guys.

15:31David Sims:But Morris Chestnut did play Redwood or whatever the fuck his name is. It was called, I'm going to find, Rosewood.

15:36Griffin Newman:Dr. Beaumont Rosewood Jr. And it's like, what's it about? And it's like, he's a doctor. I don't fucking know. Get over it.

15:42David Sims:This is the point I want to make. House is based on Sherlock Holmes. The premise of House was what if Sherlock Holmes was a doctor today. And there are all these fucking illusions and the number on his office door and the address. He's an addict too, right?

15:57Griffin Newman:It's basically like he's asocial. He's got a weird computer brain. He's super smart, but he's also tough to be around. It's a fucking 10 things I hate about

16:06David Sims:you for Sherlock Holmes. Right? And then that leads to the 2010s where you have the two Downey Jr. movies. You have Cumberbatch Martin Freeman show. And you have the Downey Jr. movies.

16:18Griffin Newman:Downey Jr. is like, what if Sherlock was a boxer. A big boxer. Right. The fucking Cumberbatch is like, what if he had a Blackberry? Right? Like that was his big thing. And then the elementary was just like, just Sherlock Holmes in like Chicago. And I want to be clear, the only media based on Sherlock Holmes that I have ever, including books or movies, is Watson on CBS. I have never seen That was where you jumped in. a single, I've never read, I guess maybe the Wishbone episode where he's Sherlock Holmes. Yeah, it's probably Sherlock Bones or something like that, right? He has to be. I don't know if it was Sherlock but I distinctly remember wishbone and a little hat and that pipe absolutely

16:53David Sims:that it's probably the hound of Baskerville yeah oh maybe that exactly maybe yeah probably both they probably yeah either way if there's a wishbone Sherlock Holmes that and Watson I've never read a book I've never so that's all man you know what I love it that way yeah so to me I'm like whoa this is pretty fucking good yeah Watson's fucking cool like where's chestnut just

17:12Griffin Newman:looks like an AI filter where you're like it can't be it's too symmetrical smooth everything's so perfect. You know, it looks like that the guy in the newest Saulnier movie, the Rebel Ridge. Yes. Oh, that guy. That guy is his facial features are so extreme. He's literally to me. That's the uncanny valley. Yes. It almost hurts to look at him. It's trying to beat off like dead or alive volleyball. You know what I mean? It's like he's too hot. Yeah. This like I'm struggling to get me off how hot he is. I can't come looking at Aaron Pierre. Yeah. Dead or Alive Volleyball is such a good example. Like, that is just the pure nonsense.

17:51Griffin Newman:Yeah, yeah. It's a volleyball game. It is. It is. It is crazy. And there's like 18 guys by computers like doing boom physics or whatever.

17:58David Sims:But you think back to like the 90s and the early 2000s and just the, like getting horny for just the abstract hint. Oh, didn't take much. Just being like, look, we have not cracked this technology at all. No, and that's definitely another form of being a Luddite. There's got to be a streaming box of that as well, where it's like, you don't get pornography. You get boobs from a Sears catalog. You get, you know. Oh, it's right. You get like. We have to roll it back to catalog. The seasons of Friends where they weren't wearing bras. You know what I mean? Like, Charmed. Charmed was big.

18:30Griffin Newman:Caroline and the City, man. Yeah, yeah. Just every eighth episode of that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

18:35David Sims:You just think back to what a cultural revolution it was of like, oh my God, Lara Croft is so hot. They have made the first fuckable video game character. And you look at that first game and she looks like a cyber truck. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. And people are like, Yeah, yeah, yeah. You could do the cheat code to get those triangle nipple-less tits out. It's like, And at the time you're like,

18:57Griffin Newman:You're just like, It's so hot. And you're like, Oh, what's the game? It's like, You mostly jump on rocks trying to like, It's so annoying. It's kind of Zelda, I guess. It's like hot Zelda. Really, really extended puzzle solving. Yeah. Whatever, man. All right. I gotta ask. Watson fucks yeah he's taking a girl Watson's ex-wife has left him but she's a piece of ass too and now she's also bi I guess and now she's a hot woman so it feels like Watson's kind of trying to fuck them both but he's out this is something that network TV is doing more and more of without anyone talking about it I threw on that show Dr.

19:37Griffin Newman:Odyssey now cancel R.I.P. R.I.P. Oh, damn. But that was like a show where it's like, yeah, it's the love boat with doctors. And you're like, I get it. And they're like, three episodes in, they're like, I think they're going to be in a throuple. Yeah. And then like five episodes in, they're like, they're fully in a throuple and one of them's pregnant. Yeah. And I'm like, don't grandmas watch CBS? This is on CBS. This is the Columbia Broadcasting System.

19:59David Sims:That is what they are. Well, I will say Watson is a little more chaste. Like, I think he wants, I think he misses love. Right? Oh, sure. And I think that's really like, and so he's really focused. He's also dealing with some kind of, kind of mysterious brain ailment that Moriarty seems to be making worse. Through his nefarious agents. Yeah. They hit him with a Havana syndrome gun. Shooting weird waves at him. Moriarty infected him with the woke mind buyers. Yeah, exactly right. Yeah. Watson is he, they, and that's his big problem, you know? but yeah there's not an they use Morris Chestnut but they don't make him explicitly he's just so focused on medicine and you know piecing his life back together that I think he's not hopefully season two maybe you know he's made peace with his ex-wife leaving him for a hot woman then he can move forward and he can fuck in season two but I think right now it's about solving you know the mysteries that come his way and maybe thwarting Moriarty as well it's been renewed 7 million viewers a week we wish him all the best and I'm one of those seven.

21:04I'm one of those seven mil.

21:06David Sims:Hey, this is Blank Check with Griffin and David. I'm David. It's a podcast about filmographies. Directors who have massive success early on in their careers are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want. Sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce. Baby, this is a miniseries on the films of Joel and Ethan Cohen, together and separately. It is... Oh, you're doing separate. We're doing the separate. We're doing the separate. it is called Pod Country for Old Casts today we are talking about True Grit their blockbuster people forget that's insane I didn't realize that how fucking big this movie was this movie made a hundred and seventy million dollars domestic their second highest grossing film I believe is No Country which made seventy yeah this is their only like fucking four quadrant smash

21:56Griffin Newman:it's not just that it's like that they this is them cashing the no country check. They win best picture and they go to Scott Rudin, normal guy, and they're like, hey, we want to do True Grit. And he's like, that's like a famous movie that won an Oscar with John Wayne in it. Wait, that won a, the first one won an Oscar? John Wayne won his, it was kind of like a, it was kind of like a retirement Oscar. It was kind of like a year old and sick. I did as well. It was a piece of shit. I think it's a bad movie. No, no, no. And like, that's the thing. They're like, yeah, but that movie sucks and we love the book and we want to do it.

22:27Griffin Newman:And he's like, okay. And they're like, and it can be like a PG-13 Western. And then he's like, okay. And then it's a huge hit. Like, they were totally right. Like, this weird niche pitch they throw. And they're like, no, but maybe families will go see it. Release it at Christmas.

22:41David Sims:But their pitch was, hey, the languages in the book is really great. We want to make a more faithful adaptation of the language. We want a more literary Western. And then he also was like, the book is solely from the perspective of the little girl. And the movie kind of centralizes it more around John Wayne. and we want to tell it more from the little girl. And Scott Rune's like, great. So now we got to find some fucking 12-year-old who can talk fast and ride a horse and shoot a gun. That's an insane pitch because this movie is an absolute banger and it does not work. I mean, Haley Steinfeld is so...

23:14Like, when I first watched it, it blew my fucking mind. I watched it in the context of, like... We were in a huge movie family, like, kind of growing up, and I had this summer where I was... I worked at Blockbuster on the way out. and oh like the dying the dying dude the dying days i'm a freshman i can never be your woman days yeah yeah yeah actually yeah it started it started when i was in still in in high school um and so this is like 2007 right like right before when no country was was that year was 2007 yeah yeah um and i got into the like the coen brothers were a bit of a blind spot for me and i in like i went through and like watched a bunch of their shit and i watched this movie as just sort of after that after no country where i was it i actually you know it's funny i weirdly which is a bad take in hindsight but i watched all their sick movies right i watched their bangers i watched you know uh lebowski fargo fargo uh the first uh blood simple and i'm like holy fuck these guys are the incredible and then no i see no country in theaters i'm like these guys fucking rock what the fuck else is next and then thank you uh or um burn after reading comes out yeah and now I love that movie yeah but as a fucking idiot as a 19 year old idiot who wanted fucking sinister killers and shit I'm like what the fuck is this bullshit and it turned me off of of so I

24:36David Sims:didn't see true grit in theaters okay because that's the next one after burn right so it pissed me off and then so I watched it later as just sort of like all right I was I was wrong about burn after reading let me fuck after I've been scorned let me go back and watch all this shit I missed and I just thought it was gonna be solid but not as good as no country for old men whatever because it's like it feels almost like ai generate coen brothers movie where it's like western cool cast what you know revenge whatever it the second she's on screen i'm like what the i didn't even consider the kid actor being like a part i thought that would be the worst part of the movie right you're like i'm here to see bridges with a gun exactly whiskey yeah yeah you see a little kid on the fucking poster you're like this i hope she's not into that much and and it's like and then she's she is so breathtaking just her manner her power she's like this like there's like her power level like a Dragon Ball Z you put the reader on her dude she's fucking her power levels are out of control just standing there just having a conversation and it blew me away more than any other aspect which I don't think is a hot take is that I think did she get nominated for this?

25:46She did

25:46David Sims:they put her in supporting the thing they always do with kids even though she is the lead of the movie without question. And that blew me. And a movie that fucking rules, she is so fucking good. So anyway, I just... She's astonishing. It was crazy. And the fact, thinking about you, thinking about them pitching this and they're like, oh yeah, obviously it's going to star a kid. Like who the fuck let them make this movie? It's crazy. Was she even an actor? No, no. Did they just not found her? She had like two like sitcom guest spot appearance. I believe she's on an episode of Back to You. Oh, hell yeah.

26:17David Sims:But yes, no, it was like, that's the craziest part of the pitch, right? is that like Burn After Reading, I believe they're already, they already have in the can before No Country wins all the Oscars. They were on a like one a year movie clip. So Burn After Reading comes out like six months after No Country sweeps the Oscars. But this is the movie they set up with the Oscar cachet. See, if it had been right after No Country, this might have been like my favorite movie. I saw it at theaters like in the 2010s. But that was like, they already had that in the can. They go to this pitch and then it's the craziest part of the pitch is like, and by the way, we can't start making the movie until we find the kid.

26:52David Sims:Right? Like I feel like they get Damon and Bridges attached really quickly. They've announced this. And then I think the stat is they said they auditioned 15 ,000. No, they got 15 ,000 tapes.

27:04Griffin Newman:Okay. They didn't audition 15 ,000. But the crazy thing is they didn't find her until three weeks before shooting. She was... What the fuck? They sifted through like so much shit. Yeah. They said, I mean, the Coens were obviously like, we didn't watch that. Like most of it was just immediate. like, no, no, this isn't an actor. And then they find her really late in L.A. Because they're looking across the country. They're like, let's find some Southern kid. And they're also like, her name is Haley Steinfeld. This doesn't sound right on paper.

27:29David Sims:Right, right, right.

27:30Griffin Newman:And she's actually like a quarter Filipino or whatever. Like, it's like nothing about her tracks. And like a quarter African-American.

27:36David Sims:Mm-hmm, true. That's part of the Sinners thing. Yes, she's talked about this. I know it's true in the Sinners. No, no, no, that's true in real life. I think it's true. I think, I think.

27:43Griffin Newman:Sure. It might be 180. She's got a mixed descent. Yes, she has, yes. and they were like yeah but she could she could read the language like that was the whole thing immediately like it's like it's this complicated weird language yeah and she's just nailing it and then there's that story Damon has where he's coming aboard a couple weeks in the Coen's come in they do a take the Coen's come in give her a crazy complicated adjustment they do the next take she nails it and Damon goes over to Roger Deakins and he's like is she this is what she's like she's this good and Deakins is like yeah this is what she's like right out of the box like she's like just fucking nailing everything.

28:18David Sims:You know, in the John Wayne movie, and by the way, our guest today is Staros Hockies. Oh, yeah, right. From Staros. How we doing, gang? From Bogonia. That is true. Which will be coming out around the time this episode comes out. It comes out around Halloween, yeah.

28:30Griffin Newman:Oh, fuck it. Yeah, you're right. Wait, this is perfect. Yeah, this is perfect. It's out in a week. Hell yeah. They're going to need me doing promo for it, for sure. Absolutely. They're expecting you to roll the train. They were like, listen, man, if you can swing blank check around the release of the movie, we'll let you get the part and that was a big risk for me because we didn't even know each other when I got the movie no this lined up very well yeah your ghost is like so you can do blank check and you're like yeah man whatever I can dance I can do eight axes I can fence I can jet ski whatever you need big dog put me in the fucking movie

29:06David Sims:but you can hang with the two friends yeah

29:09Griffin Newman:is your ghost chill I interviewed him once a long time ago and he's one of the only interviews I got where the press person called me before him being like, hey, just so by the way, just so you know, he's really weird. Interesting. Just like get ready for like a really weird guy. Now that was a long time. I think now he's not as awkward. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, look, the context is different. I mean, I can't imagine like doing press sucks dick. So if you're like an auteur who's like, well, I don't fuck, even though, you know.

29:36David Sims:And like not a performer. Not a performer, yeah.

29:38Griffin Newman:It's like the lobster era where I feel like the first question everyone probably has still is like, hey, why does every character in your movie talk like a weird robot? like what's the vibe what's going on your film so what were you smoking and where can i get

29:49David Sims:i assume he just got years of those questions yeah no i mean he was the man and look i i'm i know i know art kids and i know greek people and so like you know i grew up around both of that type of type of guy and so it's like your ultimate guy and he's a bad he's a hoops guy he played hoops like we had a lot he's big he played and yeah there was a big part where we were talking about uh we talked about like hoops and he's a big European hoops. Like he still follows him. Yeah, yeah. He literally, he thinks, which is an insane take, but yeah, you know, he thinks it's better. He thinks better than the NBA.

30:23Griffin Newman:Do you ever see the, I mean, like, isn't that like where the arenas are just filled with people like shooting off fireworks every 30 seconds? Okay, the vibes are way better. Don't get me wrong. Like people give a fuck. But like the basketball is bad. The basketball is just not as open. I like a more open game, but what can I say? That was when I really was like, wow, I am Greek American, not Greek. Like you actually like to spread the floor. I like to, yeah, exactly. and gotten a little out of control. Yes, it has. I think it definitely has. So maybe I can see what he's talking about in that the games are harder fought, but at the same time, I don't want to go back to Piston Spurs finals where it's like 63 to 71.

30:57David Sims:Griff, you agree, right? Yeah. Well, here's what I was going to say that I actually can contribute to this. I don't know if you know this.

31:03Griffin Newman:His brother works in European basketball. My brother works in European basketball.

31:07David Sims:He works in the French basketball league, but his team has also now become part of the Euro basketball league. Oh, they got in the Euro basketball league. The French basketball league, I feel like, has its own contentment. This thing we're saying, like, every basketball fandom culture is different in every country. No, it's incredible. It's incredible. And, like, I go to the Parisian games and there's a drum circle. There's, like, he's like, those are the drum guys. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They always buy this corner and they come with 20 drums and they're just banging them and that's what they do, right?

31:31David Sims:And I'm like, is this a Paris thing? It's kind of a France thing. But then they'll play the EuroLeague games and, like, Turkey will come over and Turkey will be throwing smoke bombs. Yeah, they're fucking crazy. And they're like, what is this? And they're like, yeah, that's their culture. Any Turkish basketball game you go to, people are throwing smoke bumps. Like anytime they have a visiting team from a different European country, and some of them are not European countries, but they go into the EuroLeague because there's nowhere else to go. They all have their own thing where it's like, yeah, these guys love to throw marbles on the court.

32:00No, no, no. The Greek championship series was suspended by the police this time. It's so funny that it's such a Division II basketball. Like the owners were like banned from being there. Like there's like, they literally, this has happened multiple times. And it sucks for me because I'm an Olympiacos fan and Panathinaikos unfortunately has been better recently. And they're the ones that the Adetokumbo brothers play for. And they have like a, there is a great profile about the Panathinaikos owner who's just an insane guy. And you should look at it, it's very funny.

32:32Griffin Newman:I grew up in England. And it's very interesting to hear you pronounce that correctly. Yeah, Panathinaikos. we're playing fucking Parathenaikos you know cause like that's the same the football team's the same name Olympiacos oh yeah fucking Olympiacos Galatasaray you know all these like sort of Greek Turkish I know every time Arsenal would play Galatasaray it would be one of those things where like one fan would die of course once a year like some fan gets stabbed cause he like stayed out too late went to the wrong bar after or whatever and you'd just be like that's fucking welcome to the NBA baby And I do love those vibes.

33:08David Sims:I'm trying to remember which country it was, but there was some home game of my brother's team that I went to where they made all of the away fans sit behind their basket. Yeah, they got to be in like a cage, basically. No, they truly put a net around. Yeah.

33:26Griffin Newman:And they had riot cops. Because like both ways it's bad. You know, like everyone's going to try and attack them and they might start fights. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then like, yeah, it's just this whole thing in America where it's like, well, what's your thing? It's like, well, we have a brass band in Britain. It's like, what's your thing? It's like, we're racist. We're like allowed to be. It's like culturally acceptable for us to be like screaming Jewish epithets or whatever, like something like that. You're not a real fan

33:49David Sims:if you have all your teeth. Right. It's like, you got to lose them in a fist fight during. There is something to that. Hooligan is a great term. Hooligan's a great term. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

33:58Griffin Newman:And it's just like this country where their emotions are not allowed out until they're in a football stadium and then they just become maniacs. Yeah.

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35:20David?

35:21David Sims:Yes? Got any big summer plans? If you're traveling, you got late nights, packed weekends, zero structure, any of those, keeping AG1 in your routine helps you stay consistent. That's a loaded word right there. Consistent. Yes. When everything else gets, and here's another loaded word, unpredictable.

35:40Griffin Newman:Oh, I don't want that. And I know you don't either. Look, it's a daily health drink with a multivitamin. Yep. Free and probiotics. Yep. Superfoods. Mm-hmm. And antioxidants. It's an all-star lineup. One scoop, eight ounces of water. You just shake it up. There you go.

35:55David Sims:That's it. You drink it. It takes 30 seconds. I know you drink it every single day. What's your favorite flavor right now? Right now, I'm actually really big into berry. I've been cycling through them, and I've really been enjoying this berry phase. I will say this as well, David. You said it wherever you are. I'm about to go away for six weeks, and you better believe I just ordered a whole box of travel packs so that I don't have to travel unarmed.

36:21Griffin Newman:I had no doubt. So visit drinkag1.com slash check to get your free morning person hat. and free AG1 flavor sampler. I'm so excited for that hat. In your welcome kit with your first AG1 subscription. That's an$82 value. That's drinkag1.com slash check.

36:40David Sims:When I wear that hat, it's going to be so ironic. Yes. I don't like the mornings. No. But I love AG1.

36:47Griffin Newman:Yes.

36:58David Sims:Here's the thing I'm going to say, going back to True Grit. Yes, please. To the point of them finding Haley Steinfeld so late and her being like such a miracle. Months and months of auditioning people. I guess, right, at a certain point they were just like, we just have to put this thing into motion and hope that we find the kid. I had a friend who was kind of like, had a pin in her for months. She must have been 20 or 21, but looked kind of young. and they were just sort of like, we're keeping you on hold in case we don't find an actual kid. Right. There was this notion of like, there might not truly be a child who can do this dialogue, carry the emotional weight and handle the stunts.

37:42Right.

37:43David Sims:And so like, I'm sure they had a couple of those, you know, but it was that close of like, if we can't find a kid, it might be you. And it could still be a good ass movie if it's like 1917, whatever year old, but it's not the same. It's magical. It's like magical that you're watching a child do. And I also think the ending, which to me is the whole thing that makes this movie profound, doesn't work if it isn't actually a kid at the beginning. For sure. And you watch the John Wayne movie, which is really hokey. But one of its biggest issues is that it's, what's her name, Kim Darby? Kim Darby. She's like 25 or whatever.

38:13David Sims:Right. She looks young, but yet not like a literal child. But it is a grownup playing a kid, right? And in like a 60s film with like, you know, without a sense of like naturalism in its performances, you can kind of get away with her wearing a wig and being like, gee willikers. Please, Mr. Rooster. But you read like, it was supposed to be Mia Farrow. And then she turned it down after Rosemary's baby. This was supposed to be her follow-up to Rosemary's baby. Can you imagine after Rosemary's baby Mia Farrow showing up and being like, hi, I'm a 12-year-old. Right? And then they go... That's fucking insane.

38:51David Sims:They go through like Sandra Locke, Tuesday well. John Wayne wanted Karen Carpenter. They offered it to Sally Field, all of them over 20 years old. And then you end up with Kim Darby, who at least had the benefit of being an unknown, where there wasn't the previous association in the same way of like, I've seen this person play a grown up yet. But it does totally change the vibe of the movie versus this movie starts with her. And you're like, who the fuck is this kid? Which is what the whole story is driven by that Like, this is a girl who you believe can like trick fucking Deacon Matthews into buying back, selling her at a discount.

39:28David Sims:The horses she just sold him at an upcharge. And what I love about those, I mean, the early feeling of like they show how powerful this character is, because basically when she's dealing with people that will deal with her, like the danger here is that she's a child. She's a girl. Right. It's like the kind of people that are not treated well in the fucking Wild West. And when people will deal with her as a human being, well, just a guy trading with her and it's wits versus wits, she's better than everyone. Like she's tougher. Her only dangers are the most fucked up things possible, which is like violence, you know what I mean?

40:06Like, yeah, yeah, like, yeah, exactly. And so it was really cool. They established her as like, yeah, only some really fucked up shit can stop this person. and she knows she's susceptible to it. She's constantly walking this tightrope and she doesn't give a fuck because it's bigger than her. She has a real goal here.

40:25Griffin Newman:Not to go all thesis, but what is so magnificent about this movie? Because in the movie I saw in theaters and I was like, that rocked, loved that, Western, had a great time. And then as I kept watching, I kept being like, this might be the best movie they ever made. This might be one of the best movies of the century or whatever. It's like America then, right? is like kind of... Civilization's kind of arrived, but everyone who lives out here is basically just a weirdo or a criminal or a drunk or some like diseased person or an immigrant who can only operate like, you know, out here in the wild or whatever.

41:02Griffin Newman:And, you know, bad shit happens all the time. Someone argues over a dog and gets shot. Yep. And it's like, yeah, it sucks and we'll kind of deal with it. And she's just like, a great wrong has been done. And like... I want this addressed because like a bad, this is not fair. Like that this happened to me. And like, she just slowly infects everyone in the movie. Like, right. The beef is in it for money. Like, and he, and pride and like, you know, being a, you know, showboat. Right. I'd love to really crack. We're going to talk. Rooster's in it for whiskey and money. And just like, he just can only do this.

41:40Griffin Newman:Right. Like, you know, and it's like, by the end of the movie, driven by ego as well. The idea of reputation. Exactly.

41:45David Sims:being seen as a big man and a tough man. Which is what matters out there.

41:48Griffin Newman:And like by the end of the movie, Rooster is like this, like he won't say it out loud maybe, but you can tell that he's like, this is important that we like do this. I don't want to say this always works for me. And it's like just this like glimmer of civilization, you know, like in a lawless way. I don't want to say it always works for me because that's what America is, which is not a great country. I think it is a great country actually with no problems. No, no. But like that is what is going on.

42:11David Sims:You have to execute it well. I'm not going to go for the shittiest version of it that you haven't earned. But anytime you actually put the muscle into building properly, guy who doesn't give a shit about anything or anyone, and then at the end, he won't say it, but he'll do something that shows he cares so fucking much. The end of this movie gets me so worked up every time. And it is like John Wayne plays the part a lot more sentimental. And they treat it much more like this nice guy is helping this little girl, right? And they have this sort of begrudging like, okay, little girly. But it does feel like the two of them are much more like, we have to help her.

42:50David Sims:The whole thing in this movie is that these two guys are just like, fuck you. And then both of them keep accidentally showing their hand. LaBeouf is cornier, right? Like he'll open up and give her the respect increasingly over the course of the film.

43:03Griffin Newman:Yeah, he'll say it a lot because he's a man of gab.

43:05David Sims:But Rooster will never fucking say it. Yeah. And him just running with her in his arms. Yeah, her and Rooster really is, I mean, that's the pure shit. that's the and and like labeef is interesting to me like your point david about it really to me feels like the rooster and maddie relationship is where you really see it because he is he really just is a piece of shit like he's awesome but he's maybe one of the worst guys of all time

43:30Griffin Newman:yeah i mean he's on trial and at first you're like on you're like yeah rooster tell him and then you're like it does kind of sound like he just shot a bunch of fucking guys he definitely so drunk and also like it's later revealed that they're both confederate right both our heroes are confederate guys right but he's the type of confederate that like the other confederates were like these are bad guys like labif was like oh you were that kind of confederate like which is fucking like they give you and then even at the end as soon as that motherfucker like he sobers up he takes the money whatever then there's the hilarious part where he finds a little whiskey and he's a piece of shit immediately right like he immediately gives into his vices even though he might have been slowly on the path to like, you know, helping her and growing the second he gets a fucking bottle of whiskey.

44:15That's done. And he's like, fuck you, get the fuck out of here. You go, you and Labeef, whatever. A bottle. He's, he's put down three or four.

44:24David Sims:I say this man loves to pull the cork. I also love the favorite line in the history of three chords of the way into the movie where he's like,

44:32Griffin Newman:I did rob a bank one time. And she's like, what? And he's like, I don't know. Like who fucking cares? fucking white wanted me to be a lawyer yeah and he's like yeah that's what they thought and then the story about what a badass he was where he's charging at seven guys or whatever it's like he's in the wrong there he's being insane he's just such a fucking irredeemable piece of shit but that is what she's like I need a Terminator I need like a and it's cool that she because she when they describe the three potential marshals right it's like one's a good tracker it's like final fight he ends with yes yes yes pick your guys oh yeah give me the piece of shit that kills people that's right and she knows that which to her credit is awesome she's like I'm willing to deal with this kind of guy he's a tool I can wield but yes that's why seeing him become essentially a good guy not good but doing the good thing is so awesome scenes are the beginning of the quest where he watches her take the horse over the river right and it's just the simplest cinematic language possible cut to rooster cut to horse cut to rooster there's nothing complicated going on at all.

45:36Griffin Newman:Every time you cut back to Rooster, 5 % more in Jeff Bridges are like, damn, she's really fucking going across the whole ass river. And no, what he does say when Labeef starts spanking her is like, I don't think I will let this happen. And it's basically like, yeah, you've earned me enough of my respect here. And then by the end of the movie, yes, he loves her like a child, like he, you know, because he was mean to his actual child. Yes, yes. Right, another thing. If you pick out his monologue, you're like, what a fuck? driving his family. And he's like, well, I guess I was a piece of shit. My boy didn't care for me.

46:09And me, he's like, well, I guess I did treat him like shit. You know what I mean? But he was so clumsy. Yeah, he broke so many of my glasses. I'm like, you're clumsy. And this guy who's killed 30 guys, imagine what he thinks is treating someone bad. What he will even admit is treating someone bad. Like, oh my God.

46:25Griffin Newman:One of the funniest things, right? He's like, I don't know, I've killed like 12 to 15 guys. The guy's like, I have the number here. He's like, yeah, I guess it's like 25. You got me. The court scene rules too where he's getting them, where he realizes people are laughing and he's kind of leaning into it. That little like Jeff Brinkley's like chuckle is awesome. I tend to go backwards. Yes, go ahead, Griff. Sorry. As we said. I get so fired up

46:45David Sims:about this movie. No, of course. John Wayne winning the Oscar for this was kind of like a gold watch retirement.

46:51Griffin Newman:That's exactly what it was.

46:53David Sims:It was a Scent of the Woman. Hey, you're kind of it's a Scent of the Woman thing. It was only his second nomination ever. He dies like seven or eight years after this. Yeah, but

47:00Griffin Newman:in my head, I'm like, oh he died right after and it's like no actually he made a fucking True Grit sequel they made a movie called

47:07David Sims:Rooster Cogburn that's him dealing with Catherine Hepburn and she's like ah well I never that is the vibe he is so I mean he just sucks in it John Wayne is an awesome actor he's not good at True Grit and listen no he's not what's his last was The Shootist The Shootist is his last movie he's incredible in that that's what if he was that if he did that performance that's the kind of performance this movie needed he's pretty he's much closer to what Bridges does here the whole thing with John Wayne out of the water is that like

47:34Griffin Newman:when I'm getting into movies I think of him as a square right because that's what you hear about John Wayne it's like oh yeah he was you know a conservative and he supported the war and all that shit and then you'll like watch any John Ford movie that he's in and you're like I would fucking I'll vote for Reagan and this guy tells me he's the coolest guy I've ever seen but it's those movies where he's like he's incredible he's like stoic and violent he's amazing in the searchers but true grit is kind of what he's bad at which is like you know broad kind of goofy shit well so the thing

48:00David Sims:I was gonna to identify is the moment that people, I think, give credit to winning him the Oscar is the 69 movies version of that monologue of explaining how he's fucked up his marriages and his son, which in that movie is played as like a real, this guy has let his guard down. John Wayne is showing emotions, right? He's like getting vulnerable on camera and they're around a campfire and he's sort of looking off to the middle distance and being like, I guess I wasn't a good father, you know? But it's so cool. And then they announce, okay, Coen Brothers, doing True Grit with Jeff Bridges. At the moment they announce it, Crazy Heart has not come out yet.

48:38David Sims:So people were like, Jeff Bridges is one of these great overdue, this guy needs an Oscar dudes. It would make so much sense that True Grit is kind of the movie that wins him an Oscar in the same way. Then Crazy Heart comes out of nowhere. Then it would be like playing Joker. It's like, you want to win an Oscar? Fucking play Mr. Cogburn.

48:54Griffin Newman:Right.

48:54David Sims:Crazy Heart comes out of nowhere. He wins. And people are like, and can you believe he's got True Grit next year? Is he going to win two years in a row. And then the movie comes out and everyone's like, oh, he's playing it like a grotesque. He's not doing the obvious thing you would do to try to win an Oscar. He's not doing sweetheart shit. No, he's like, I feel like what's in the text of the movie is like, this guy's kind of a monster. And not only that, he's like aggressively unsavory. Of course. He's like unpleasant. He smells bad. But I mean, obviously, Steinfeld is the absolute A number one secret.

49:26But the second thing for me, what they're incredibly good at is, all their movies, all the little characters, all the world. It's like, it feels so, all of them are so realized. They're so real. And everyone is disgusting. Everyone is what? A guy in that time, they're all sweaty. Everyone looks like shit. I mean, the scene where they come across the guys in the little hut and he shoots the guy in the, they look so disgusting. And especially when you compare it to the original, which is a Looney Tunes cartoon. It's like fucking in technicolor type shit that you're like, you're like, I, this is, this world is fucking terrifying.

50:09David Sims:I also think the choice they make with that monologue of Rooster's like backstory dump is that it's delivered as if he's doing like a fucking deaf comedy jam routine to her largely disinterested, right? It's kind of like, they do these time lapse cuts. He occupies himself. He's like monologuing. And he's not like, this is not me being vulnerable. This is me being like, yeah, and I fucked up that marriage too. He's like fucking Abe Simpson, like just talking to nobody. Which tells you even more about him that this guy is revealing his greatest failings in life as like sort of like weird material.

50:46David Sims:And it's also, but I also think to me, it feels like it's nothing to him. Exactly. He doesn't give a fuck. Which tells you everything. I mean, he knows,

50:53Griffin Newman:he's not like, I rock. Like when she's like, hey, I'll give you, He's like, I sleep in a Chinese grocery store on like ropes. This is just what I do. I happen to be an awesome murderer. That's how I get whiskey. So yeah, people call me a fucking legend. It's a little, I mean, there's a little Unforgiven to this movie too. But Unforgiven is so serious. Like I love that movie so much. But I mean, absolutely. They're different, but I just mean there's a little, I actually feel a little Unforgiven in both Rooster, as Clint Eastwood obviously, and then Labeef to me feels like a little bit of the guy.

51:28The Morgan Freeman? No, no, no. Oh, oh, oh. The guy who's in Harris. English Bob? No, no. English Bob, right. The kid who's a complete fraud. Oh, yeah, that kid. To me, Labeef feels so much, like the big question I have about Labeef is like is he good at any of this shit? Is he a complete fraud? Right. I mean, in Unforgiven, it's way more, it's so much clearer that that character is a pure fraud, right? And it doesn't feel that way with Labeef, right? Labeef has definitely gone through some shit. It's almost like If that character had to go through war and maybe figure shit out, but he's not made of the same stuff rooster.

52:03He doesn't have true grit. He doesn't have true grit. He doesn't have true grit. There's no chance to be true grit. French name, you can't have true grit.

52:10David Sims:He looks like a Toy Story cowboy, right? Yes, he does. Like everything about him is like a little too performative. And he's trying to intimidate a child and he can't do it. Right, he's trying to - You know what I mean? Even though it's like the craziest - Some of them basically be like, I can't decide if I want to intimidate or seduce you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I'm trying to figure out what a guy should do in this situation. And I'm pathetic at both. Yes. I don't really, you can tell I don't really want to do either of it. Right. And it's, but so it's like, he's such a fraud in so many ways. And even, you know, not to skip it at the end, it's like, you don't, I love that.

52:40I mean, I know it's a hard shot. And even if you just take it at face value, there is like narrative value to him being like, he did this. He claimed he could shoot from far away. Rooster told him he couldn't. He pulled off the shot to save Rooster's life. That has its value. I watch it I'm like he doesn't know this is a complete coin flip

52:59David Sims:no she's like telling him to take the shot he goes too they're too far and they're moving too fast yeah yeah yeah

53:04Griffin Newman:and then finally the guy Barry Pepper stops and he gets the shot and it is you're like yeah good job buddy like what a bully shot but also completely lucky is how it felt to me you know what I mean he never does anything particularly impressive but he does like go all the way to fucking wherever the fuck they you know deep into Indian territory yeah yeah yeah He's fine. He's fine. I think his life outside of this, you could read the character as impressive and whatever, but in this movie, he's a complete loser. He just gets got at every turn. Of course, the number one thing, as Maddie keeps saying, is the guy they're chasing is adult.

53:44Griffin Newman:When you meet him... He's bad at everything. Exactly. And Brolin's so amazing. He's so good. You're right. That part where she's where where he meets her and she's like you couldn't even catch this fucking you wait you've been tracking this idiot for three months i'll find him in four days like if and and at the time i'm like she's so good at like shitting on people and then you meet the guy and you're like wait how did this guy outsmart labee for fucking four months he is but you're like that's life in the wild west you could just be like well i'll just go to this like 100 million square acre area that no one lives in.

54:20Griffin Newman:It's like the deflation. Except for like a weird dentist with a bear hat. Yeah. Who was awesome also. That guy rules. That guy fucking rules. That guy now would have like a podcast. A hundred percent. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

54:31David Sims:That guy has his own supplements. Yeah. Yes. Every Coen's movie has like five guys like that where when they're on screen you're like, is this the best performance I've ever seen in my life? It's incredible, yeah. The guy fucking... The guy who does the animal noises?

54:44Griffin Newman:Love that guy. Oh, sure. No explanation of why he does that. That guy's awesome. He eats it. Dead. That's the end. So good. I just like the idea of Barry Pepper being like, I need an idiot, kind of like a cold-butted murderer. Can we get like an animal guy in here just to keep it lively? Like in my little posse?

55:00David Sims:Yes, yes, yes. You didn't get to see this in theaters, but I remember the feeling in the audience when Brolin came on screen. Because I mean, the posters for this movie are Bridges, Damon, Brolin, right? Yeah. And they had him in the trailer. They have his face on the poster, but they didn't let him speak. and you know the whole movie is structured around like here's the big bad that they have to go and get revenge on, right? Like a... Yeah, he's the... The bill must be settled, right? With this man. And then you get to him and like the Carter Burwell score is swelling and she sees him, she clocks him.

55:34David Sims:The second he starts talking, the audience just exploded with laughter. Incredible. And it just, this immediate communication of, oh, this guy's like nothing. Yeah. This guy is nothing. What are you doing here? It's like the reverse Spacey and seven. It's like the absolute reverse of like. Right where you're like this guy's so much more terrifying than I could have imagined. Yeah yeah yeah. And you're just like this is some random guy who like shot a dude because his ego was threatened and he was a little scared. Yeah yeah and yeah even the way he's like he allows he's like hey what are you doing here?

56:06You know like the friendly conversation he's having with this girl who's dead he knows he killed. He knows he killed her dad.

56:13Griffin Newman:She's looking at him like death and he's like murder? Hey what's up? And he like literally He's like, let me put my gun away. And then my favorite thing is when she like points the gun at him. He's like, nothing goes right for me. This sucks. He's such a sad sack. Like he expects her to be like, I know, man. Yeah, it really sucks to be you.

56:30David Sims:And that's basically, he reveals the only reason he killed her father was because he felt like he made him look weak.

56:35Griffin Newman:Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. He felt a little, whatever, cucked by Maddie Ross's dad, who I guess the implication in this character is that her dad must have been an exemplar to her in some way. Like, I don't think like she had some like complete loser dad, right? Like there's some sort of stiff Protestant kind of, you know, like frontier like character in her that must be from her dad. Cause she's like, yeah, my mom's home with the babies and she's indecisive. Like, yeah.

57:02David Sims:The Wayne movie opens with her sending her father off. You meet the dad, which I thought suck. It sucks. It's so much better when he's a mystery. It's so great. This movie just opens with. Have any of you read the book, by the way? No, I don't want to.

57:14Griffin Newman:I highly recommend it. it is basically this movie. The Coens are really good at adaptation in that they just put the movie on the screen like you're saying. Like the only thing they really add is the stuff with Dakin Matthews. That's pure Coens. Uh-huh.

57:27David Sims:Although there's a version of that scene

57:29Griffin Newman:in the original film. Yes. They... They amp it off. Yeah. And I highly recommend all of Portis' books because it's... There's only like five of them. They all rock. They're short. They're all Westerns? No. Most of them are. His first book, Norwood, you would... absolutely love, which is like a weird road trip movie about a guy who got discharged from the Marines and just meets a bunch of weirdos. Love that. I just watched what's the Nicholson movie where he's taking young Quaid to jail. Fucking Last Detail. Which is kind of similar to what the vibe you're talking about there. It's just like every piece of dialogue in his books is so cool.

58:09Griffin Newman:And that's what this movie is. Anytime anyone talks, you're just like put that on a postcard and hang it on the wall.

58:15David Sims:I will admit when I saw this movie the first time I was a little disappointed by it and I think it was like Cohen's run such a heater run in my mind. I was really in I forgot of course a serious man happens in between Burn After Rain and that is. Which also is amazing. So that's their other cash in of like what's the least commercial movie we can come up with. I watched those two back to back later and I was like these guys are so cool. But that's the era where you stepped away because you were like are they doing silly shit now? now. Exactly, exactly. But I was so into those three that I felt a little disappointed by this because it felt so much more straightforward to me where I was waiting for the weird Coen's twist on it.

58:54David Sims:So a second time in theaters immediately was like, what the fuck is wrong with me? It is a movie that like, if I can't sleep, I will just like open iTunes and just scrub to any random part and be like, let me just watch 15 minutes until I pass out. It has also the most beautiful music.

59:09Griffin Newman:Yes. Like the score is so perfect. It's so good looking. Deacon's on fire. It looks incredible. Oh, it looks so good.

59:15David Sims:And the dialogue is just like musical. It's musical.

59:18Griffin Newman:Yeah. No, it is. This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required compatibility and availability varies 18+. Get business done with the new American Express Graphite Business Cash Unlimited card. With unlimited 2 % cash back on all eligible purchases, unlimited 5 % cash back on flights and prepaid hotels booked through American Express Travel Online, and a flexible spending capacity that can grow with your business, you'll have the confidence to keep building.

1:00:05Griffin Newman:Apply today and earn a welcome offer of$1 ,500 cash back after you spend$50 ,000 in qualifying purchases on your new card within the first six months of card membership. Let me open the dossier just to tell you The thing about a serious man, Griff Is they're like We had that set up before we won the Oscar The Coens are very upfront like No, this is us trying to leverage our Oscar Even still, this movie only cost$40 million And like, you know They don't go over the top ever really But yeah Scott Rudin wanted them to adapt The Yiddish Policeman's Union You ever read that book? That's a good ass book yeah i love that book and like it feels obvious like rude and reading that being like we got cohen's got to make this like what a weird concept like they'll be and like i think they worked on it but may have kind of been like this is actually too obvious for us like there's a reason it never happened yeah um no no what do you want to say stephen no no i think that's i think i was just gonna say that's they are right about that it is a little too oh that's like what an idiot is like the cohen's got to do that it's like alternate history of like jewish alaska it's like that i want to see that it's a super cool idea it is it is cool and by the way you make that i'm watching it but but the thing is i think there is a ceiling to that because they can't i don't know can you squeeze any can you what can you do to make that next level awesome i don't know the way they took this and it this feels now i haven't read the book but it feels elevated particularly after

1:01:33David Sims:watching the original yes but also rudin pulls them out of their flop era right like yeah rudin enters the picture. He's the one who's like, do no country. After in Calvary Coolty and Lady Killers, they do know country. He's sort of like got them at this point. I imagine at the point he first throws it to them, they're still feeling like we kind of got to win our way back in the public consciousness. By this point, they have nothing to prove. They don't need to make a movie that someone else wants them to make. And they,

1:02:00Griffin Newman:in classic Coen's fashion, apparently both of them read this book to their children. That's insane. And that's where they're kind of like, we should make this a movie and we should center it on the girl, which the Wayne movie doesn't do. The Wayne movie, Wayne is the main character. Right. But also, why would you rewrite

1:02:16David Sims:any of this dialogue? Is there another big thing of like the Wayne movie lost so much of that? They do talk so much about reading books together in a way I always find funny. And I'm sure in reality it's what you're describing of they both go like, hey, want to read this next? And it's like a brother's book club. But always, in the way they talk about it, even like same with No Country where they're like, We were both reading the book and we thought this would make a good movie. I imagine them like Bert and Ernie in parallel bags with matching pajamas. Yeah, they got the fucking cap. The dangly cap.

1:02:48David Sims:One big book dangling between their two bags. Yeah, they're alternating pages.

1:02:52Griffin Newman:They're tracing it with their finger. Exactly. Now, this movie, they're like, it needs to be PG-13. Now, this movie does have someone's fingers getting cut off and someone getting shot in the face. It's kind of gnarly shit. But they're kind of, I feel like... Until you said that, I didn't even think about it. I know. I just assumed it's R. It's one of their only PG-13 movies? Their other ones are Oh Brother is PG-13 and weirdly Hail Caesar although that's not a family movie really but it's just not that lurid a movie. Yes. Lady Killers is our

1:03:18David Sims:Intolible Cruelty is PG-13.

1:03:19Griffin Newman:Intolible Cruelty is PG-13 and Hudsucker Proxy is PG because that movie is you know for kids. For kids, yeah. But yeah, largely obviously they don't care about that but this one they're consciously like no, no, no. We want this to be a movie teenagers can see. Yeah. Because it's about a teenager. Yes. I know this sounds so silly, but that is... They basically are like, Maddie is a pill, but we're drawn to her. She's so admirable. We love that Presbyterian Protestant ethic. And they are very clear. We saw that John Wayne movie when we were kids. We did not revisit it, and we told everyone not to watch it.

1:03:59Griffin Newman:Costume designers, productions, actors, do not watch that movie. They're pretty obviously disdainful, it though like they're not just like oh it's a legendary movie but who cares they're like no no no like we don't like that movie i mean it sucks it's not good it's surprisingly bad fucking sucks yeah and now it's like but they also it sucks in ways they're like like the way like old kung fu movies night would clearly be day and they just turn the fucking exposure down they do that in this fucking movie yeah it's a fucking john wayne movie in the 60s you can't shoot at fucking night I have to look at this blue ass bullshit like it's crazy how much it sucks dude it's like I know that's this looks exactly like fun kung fu movies that are pretending it's night time it's like it was yeah we need some scope here we need like it was so I mean it's a mistake to watch you watch one after the other it's like this is crazy how much better it is true great is a movie to watch TV on TV original on TV some afternoon and you're like okay no it's bad if you want to if you want to bond with your racist grandfather.

1:05:02You throw that on, you know what I mean?

1:05:04Griffin Newman:But then just watch The Shootist or The Quiet Man or some other John Wayne movie. I agree. But anyway, so yeah, Haley Steinfeld, not a seasoned pro, but she is a kid from LA. After they've been searching across all of the southern United States for their Maddie, they saw a tape of her four weeks outside of production. They cast her three weeks before. Steinfeld's like a red on a Saturday, got a cool call on a Tuesday like a week later, I was basically going to set. And, you know, it's one of those things where I didn't, obviously, she was unknown to me, right? And then like, after this, I kind of, I want to talk about the Haley Stonkall.

1:05:42Griffin Newman:Okay, we'll talk about her later, I guess. Yeah, okay. We can talk about it now. I just want to talk about it. Well, just after this, I was like, oh, is it going to be like Keisha Castle-Hughes from Whale Rider where it's like, oh, they, what a lightning in a bottle thing and that's not an actor

1:05:53David Sims:who's going to have a long career. It felt for a number of years like she was fucking it up, right? In a way where like, if someone's this good and something that's this big when they're that young out of nowhere, you're like, well, how do you ever get past this, right? And she starts like a pop career and it's like kind of bad. You're kind of like,

1:06:10Griffin Newman:I mean, good for you, but like this sucks. It just felt like,

1:06:13David Sims:right, this hits so hard she gets an Oscar nomination and then it was like, actually what I want to do is music and also pitch perfect sequels. And she did like the bad Romeo and Juliet that no one saw. And it felt like Everything between True Grit and Edge of Seventeen kind of was a whiff. You've seen that movie? It was little seen. It's great. It's so fucking good. It's like her one good teen movie, and it's basically her doing... It's about a girl who's just 17 and is having a nervous break. The opening of the movie is...

1:06:43Griffin Newman:But not in a crazy way.

1:06:44David Sims:Woody Harrelson is her cynical, disaffected teacher. Kind of her rooster cog burn. Interesting. And she walks in during his lunch break and is like, I want to kill myself. I'm on suicide watch. and he's like let me finish my sandwich and then the movie is like her recounting how bad her life is in a very like teen girl my life is falling apart her dad died and her best friend

1:07:03Griffin Newman:sleeping with her brother I mean I guess it's not normal but it's like you know it's like teen shit it's such a good movie but it's like her

1:07:09David Sims:doing like the female version of like 80s John Cusack and then she did Bumblebee

1:07:15Griffin Newman:which she's like good in and it's good it's like low key good yeah well that's the thing so I saw this like I said later and I was like what the fuck like I gotta see with this girl and then I probably looked at I wasn't interested in pitch perfect you know what I mean that's not my thing whatever which no disrespect and and then and then everything I saw was like bumblebee and then she was in fucking Hawkeye or whatever the fuck right and I'm like what like I remember getting pissed because I was like what happened this person fucking rules and then I guess the Dickinson show but I don't weirdly I just never had Apple TV

1:07:46David Sims:two seasons of an Apple TV show that kind of doesn't exist right three seasons three seasons no it exists I'm gonna stick up for Dickinson I like that show I think it is kind of forgotten right now

1:07:57Griffin Newman:well

1:07:57David Sims:all those yeah that's what I'm but it was like

1:08:00Griffin Newman:but it was a thing you can't get one other like every kind of and I guess like I guess Bumblebee and Hawkeye or whatever is enough to kind of keep stoking the flames yeah but I was so fucking pissed I was like she is someone who has that in them and it's like yes either it's lightning in a bottle because it could have been so special because there is something about like that kind of childlike confidence that you don't know any better yes like the camera's barely been on you before so you're just exactly like i remember my like i when i was a fat little child in theater i was like before i was like in middle school i was like i'm actually a jock which is hysterical like i quit i quit and like look how my life has turned out i'm clearly a performer but you know i'm like five five fat as shit i'm like i'm gonna be in the NBA.

1:08:45I'm going to quit being in plays. So if you had put me in a fucking, I think I thought I was like the fucking most

1:08:53Griffin Newman:talented, you know, nine year old in the world. The prepubescent like the world hasn't knocked you down yet. You know, like, I mean, obviously she's like, but you know what I mean? Like, yeah. There's some there's some like, oh, okay, this unfortunately could have just been the perfect storm of one of the best performances ever, but you hope that's not going to happen. And then obviously I think Sinners was like, it's so great when somebody that fucking good, well, you know, a director that good just is like, this is an underutilized talent. I'm going to just fucking line something up for her.

1:09:25That's because it, that allowed her to be, to do everything, right? That was the thing. Incredible acting, hot as shit, scary as fuck. Yeah. And then even like a little action, it was like such a perfect movie star, put this girl on performance. So I'm pumped to see what happens. It's kind of like a start of a second era, it feels like.

1:09:42David Sims:I mean, I had always just had this feeling of like, has she kind of dropped the ball? Or does she maybe not give a shit? Sometimes these people also are really good and have really bad taste. Like you meet them and they're idiots and you're like, oh, you don't know what a good movie is. That's why you keep picking bad ones. But this performance is so skillful that you're like, it's not just that she's charismatic. It is so complicated what she's doing here in such a high-level movie that it can't be an accident. Absolutely. There's so many of these I forgot about. after True Grit, but it's like, right, Begin Again, the John Carney movie where she's like Ruffalo's precocious daughter, right?

1:10:20David Sims:Romeo and Juliet, Hateship, Love Ship, Ender's Game, Three Days to Kill. She's not bad in any of these. Where she's Coster's precocious daughter, right? Then there's Barely Lethal and there was also the one Term Life that she did with Vince.

1:10:33Griffin Newman:I actually wrote and directed Barely Lethal. There's like five or six years where you're like, this all is doing nothing for her. The other thing with her is that she was in the Taylor Swift verse, like she was one of her friends. Oh, really? And that's when everyone was obsessed with Taylor Swift's whole cadre. But the pop star thing.

1:10:47David Sims:You're like, why are you trying to do this?

1:10:49Griffin Newman:She also dated one of the Run Direction guys. She had a whole 20s. She was a celebrity. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. She was never gone from the public eye. It felt like she was chasing something. She's the voice of Gwen Stacy. Oh, yeah. That's sort of when it starts coming back.

1:11:02David Sims:I agree. Because it's like Edge of Seventeen was sort of like, here we go. And then she's good in Bumblebee, but Bumblebee ends up sort of being a franchise dead end. She's great in the Spider-Verse movies.

1:11:12Griffin Newman:The thing with Dickinson was that it was like, hey, Apple has a show. It's a fucking Emily Dickinson, but it's like Gen Z. And you're like, that sounds like I wanted like drink glass. Like I can't, they're like, no, no, you don't get it. John Mulaney plays Ralph Waldo Emerson. I'm like, no, no. I'll watch his episode. What are we doing? Oh no, he's sorry. He plays Thoreau. I take it back. Wiz Khalifa plays Death. And you're like, this sounds like someone spinning some like torture wheel. And then you watch the show and you're like, unbelievably, this is tolerable. like this is not that bad and it's largely her she's so god damn charismatic

1:11:45David Sims:I think she kind of doesn't miss in terms of her actual ability she's always good in the thing yes and it it feels like she's now very selective but there was that thing in Sinners where you're sort of like you've kind of now set the table perfectly for the next 10 years of her career because you've reintroduced yourself as an adult that is like the first time she has played as a grown up in a movie and as you said showed a little bit of everything and she feels very exciting again now. Yeah. Especially in a time where it's like, how the fuck do you even... There are no movie stars. She's kind of positioned to be like, I mean, who in her age group, what woman is like, who are the real deal bona fide young female movie stars?

1:12:29There's a little bit more dudes that come to mind.

1:12:33David Sims:In the 20s class, it's Florence Pugh. Sure, of course. of course. It's Saoirse Ronan who kind of, I guess, Saoirse Ronan sort of had the run that I think people thought Haley Steinfeld was going to have the American version of. Like, you're a child prodigy who got an Oscar nomination and you were just going to continue being a serious actor first and foremost. Like, even if you're going to do things that are fun and commercial, they are like prestigious movies. And Steinfeld, it did feel, was doing the kind of like, I need a blockbuster. I guess I should do a Marvel. You know, she's fucking great on Hawkeye, but it's one of those like it's fucking Hawkeye that's the thing by the time it comes out you're like why is Hailee Steinfeld doing six episodes of a Disney Plus show for the least important Avengers and it's the shittiest one yeah come on and she's like on fire in it I remember watching and being like right Hailee Steinfeld she's good in it but I watched that show she's got like a couple scenes with Florence Pugh and you're like this is like fucking Pacino and De Niro going at it and you're like why is this being wasted on Hawkeye yeah put her on fucking WandaVision the one everybody was like excited to see by the time Hawkeye comes around and everyone's like, oh wait, this fucking sucks.

1:13:38And now she'll like,

1:13:39David Sims:show up and end credits and be like, I don't know, maybe I'll come back. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like they've just kept her on the burner now. Right. You look like you were about to say something, Ben. Or were you just leaning in?

1:13:47Griffin Newman:I was just leaning. I mean, I don't know. Come on, Ben, lean in. Zendaya, Zendaya's in the same group. Of course, of course. Yeah. I'm trying to think of the under 30. Zendaya's the example of someone where it's like, Sidney Sweeney, I guess. Yeah, Sidney Sweeney. What's up with her these days? but like Zendaya is someone where she's like she's got really good taste she's seeking out big directors she wants to work with right she's doing the kind of the movie star plan Sidney Sweeney is a little bit more like she's got some taste she's not a bad actor but she'll also be like should I sell my bath water you know like where you're like okay so you're sort of in the influencer space and she's like an operator where she's like look I want to make good stuff she's like exactly like you know these strategically make a couple shitty things

1:14:28David Sims:to try to get my good thing made and she's like open about that. Yeah. Yeah.

1:14:33Griffin Newman:Anyway, look, Jeff Bridges, just circle around the rest of the cast. Obviously, the Coens know him well. But only the second time

1:14:41David Sims:they work together.

1:14:42Griffin Newman:And they're like, we want to make a Western. He's like, I'll do a fucking Western. And they're like, it's going to be true grit. And he's like, initially, he is kind of like, what the fuck? Why would I? That's John Wayne. And then he's like, I read the book and I read the script and I was just kind of like, I get it. Like, they're just doing something different. I didn't think about John Wayne anymore. I don't really care. I mean, this is an Ethan Cohen quote here. A lot of people might take umbrage, but I'm not sure that's an iconic performance from John Wayne. To think of an iconic because of the Oscar is a mistake.

1:15:13Griffin Newman:They're up front being like, fuck that movie. It's also funny that... And they're like, and John Wayne's good in other movies. We're not saying John Wayne sucks. We're not John Wayne haters. This movie just sucked.

1:15:22David Sims:But it's also funny that they only do two movies together, The Coens and Bridges, right? He's a specific guy. Oh, absolutely. I'm not saying like there are other roles that make sense that he could have slotted into. Not totally. But he's such a good star for them in two very distinct performances that are so different from each other. Yeah. But in certain ways have become at least like the two big pillars of adult bridges. Definitely. Right? Like, I mean, there's like young hotshot bridges, right? But to a certain degree, it's like chill stoner dude and Billy Goat Gruff. Yeah. Right? And they've come up with the two defining performance for him in many ways, even though he wins his fucking True Grid Oscar for Crazy Heart.

1:16:00David Sims:I think at the moment they announced he was doing this, Lebowski was such a big flop at the time. They kind of announced this at like peak Lebowski revival. Everyone's like, right, iconic. By that time, the idea of he's working with them again was like lightning in a bottle exciting. Yeah, that's crazy to me because, again, I didn't even know that it was a flop. You know what I mean? for me it was like the thing everybody talks about in college.

1:16:24Griffin Newman:You go to college and everyone's like this is one of the five movies. Boondock Saints. Of course. Don't even get it. When you guys do the Boondock Saints episode I got dibs on that. Please come back. I have watched Boondock Saints so recently it's hysterical. I watched If it's the last 15 years it's pretty funny. I watched Boondock Saints like back to back. I watched it once on the bus. And then we watched me and my buddy watched it the day we were like oh we're probably gonna end up watching some shitty movies like boondock saints and then he started playing it and i'm like haha very funny watch the whole fucking thing the second you put that shit on dude i remember being like 12 and being like me and my little brothers having an earnest conversation we're like okay it's godfather 2 is still better right boondock saints is like nipping on its heels because it is in the conversation it is actually a movie that is like the point of view of a 12 year old boy exactly it's like that's actually how you should approach life and crime and clean up the streets and protect your bar or whatever they're doing in that portrayal of what gay people are like.

1:17:26Yeah, they're like, it's a woke

1:17:27Griffin Newman:movie. Willem Dafoe's gay. The movie's got its head on its shoulders. Goddamn. Yeah, the Troy Duffy, is that his name? Yeah, that's his name. He keeps being like, I got three ready to go. Did you make three? Am I wrong? Did three happen? They keep saying they're gonna do it. They made it look this up recently. it's been in development hell. I mean, the whole thing is that Norman Reedus' like stringy-haired ass is more famous than ever. They should cash in on it.

1:17:55David Sims:He's never directed a non-Boondock movie. Who's the other guy?

1:18:00Griffin Newman:It's Norman Reedus. Who's the other guy?

1:18:01David Sims:Sean Patrick Flannery.

1:18:03Griffin Newman:That guy must be like, come on. Because Norman Reedus is like, I'll go do another Death Stranding and Walking Dead. But they'll also show up in other shit

1:18:10David Sims:like The Bike Riders and basically just be the same thing. He's in Ballerina. Right. He just shows up with the same look on a motorcycle. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And does his thing and leaves. Respect, dude. No, I think them announcing Bridges felt like, oh, De Niro and Scorsese are doing the Irishman together, right? It was like, they're coming back together. It's almost a layup, but you know what?

1:18:33Griffin Newman:I want to watch that.

1:18:34David Sims:And that's a perfect old man part for him.

1:18:37Griffin Newman:Damon, this is the first Damon Coens? Yeah, and the only. It's the only. it's just so funny that every time they get like an Oceans guy like Clooney Damon Pitt they're like yeah you're a buffoon you're like a nincompoor I mean they love making traditional movies and Damon's like I get it the way he puts it is he's like I want a guy this guy is like presentation of Tommy Lee hilarious that that's who he's thinking of the like charm of Bill Clinton no substance like that's how that's my approach with this guy like he's slick he's put together he's a zero like otherwise he's so fucking

1:19:10David Sims:goodness and I We've litigated it before. I'm always like, it is astounding he didn't get nominated because he's such a big star in such a like killer scene-stealing supporting role in a huge hit movie, but it's, yeah, incredibly stacked here. Yeah, what, so this is, they're catching Damon when chronologically. That's a good call. When is it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's finished the Bourne trilogy and in theory that's in the backseat. I mean, this is a period where he keeps saying, I want to direct. I think I want to transition more directing, which ends up being more the move that Affleck does.

1:19:41Griffin Newman:This is a weird time for him because you're right. Like, The Last Bourne is 07. In 08, he, like, pops into fucking the Che movie for a second. All right. You know, in 09, he pops on... Pops into Youth Without Youth. Yeah. In 09, he puts on a bunch of weight and he does The Informant, which he's great in. That's a good movie. Oh, The Informant's good. Yeah. And then he somehow loses all the weight but plays a rugby player in Invictus,

1:20:02David Sims:which is, like, a bad movie, but he's fine. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Gets an Oscar nomination for that. But that also was kind of like the... Invictus was like it feels like just such a prestige for prestige shit it's an empty movie yeah yeah I remember that yeah yeah

1:20:16Griffin Newman:and in 2010 he has a really weird year he does Green Zone which is a giant bomb which is sort of his like let me do Born without Born can we

1:20:24David Sims:can we do Born but now it's really about the Iraq war

1:20:27Griffin Newman:right that's the tail end of them being like you don't want like a really serious movie about Iraq is fucked up and America's like no never everyone's so dumb not interested is Iron Man there no not interesting yeah hereafter the Clint Eastwood movie which is in my opinion an incredible movie but he's not really the lead in it well it's like a triptych right yeah he's alright you know he's good in it he's actually really good in it it's an amazing movie but people are just like what the fuck is this it's about like psychics and tsunamis it's so weird and then True Grit the next year he does Adjustment Bureau Contagion we bought a zoo he's definitely in a kind of like What's my deal?

1:21:08Griffin Newman:Right. Margaret finally comes out in Happy Feet 2 as well. But he's like, he's like, all right, can I not be an action star? Can I make like, you know, proper dramas and stuff? And like, some of them are good. Some of them are, we bought a zoo.

1:21:21David Sims:I need to throw out the other two factors at play here in this era. Okay. One is that he says, I want to direct. Promised Land, which Gus Van Sant ends up directing, that he co-wrote with Krasinski and still stars in, was supposed to be the first movie he directed. And there were a couple other scripts he bought that he had announced he was going to direct. And in this era, very overtly in the press, he keeps saying, I think I want to transition more directing. So when I do a movie now, it's really based on me wanting to learn from other directors. So there's a certain amount of checklist like, am I thrilled about doing Invictus?

1:21:54David Sims:I got to work with Clint. Right, true grit, I need to have a Coen's in my back pocket. I'm trying to study all these people now. So he's sort of going director first, and then there's a lot of him returning to his regular Soderbergh, Greengrass, repeating his guys, right? The second thing is, in this exact era, these are the movies he did instead of Avatar, where he was the first choice for Avatar. And Cameron's like...

1:22:16Griffin Newman:And they were like, you get a ton of money, you get a piece of the movie, you do have to live in New Zealand for like three years. It was, I can't give you the money

1:22:22David Sims:because the tech is so expensive, but I can give you 10 % of the film. Oh my God, dude. And he's like, that's going to take me off the board for like three years. But it was for these fucking movies? Yeah. Because he would, I mean, look, no disrespect to, you know, Jake Sully, but Damon's Jake Sully is better. It's this weird thing of Damon would have been great. And I almost wonder if the movie, I think. I don't know. He's good enough to. He's good at becoming a blank. Dude, that's one of his weird talents is like he more than other stars, I think, can kind of disappear a little bit. I agree.

1:22:57David Sims:Do a role. Oh, it's a thing we love to talk about that, like, you could just program two different Damon series. and one is Damon leading man using his movie stardom. And then Damon supporting actor is as good a career as his leading man career. The top tiers of both are unbelievable and True Grid is such a good like snapshot of that. I mean, that's the only, for me, the only absolute banger in this, the only banger in this era. I'd agree with that. What's his next, okay, I know, but what's his next like banger, banger after this? Right, so then it's Behind the Candelabra, which he's incredible.

1:23:30Is a banger, watch that. with my mom came to visit New York and for some reason, we watched that with her. Throw it on. We just threw on that while I'm hitting a fucking weed pen surreptitiously. Hell yeah. Way too high and I'm like, oh, why am I watching this movie

1:23:43Griffin Newman:with my mother? Matt Damon's like, I mean, Michael Duncan's like, shave another 5 % off. It's so good. Sky. But I'm too high to change it anyway. Then he does Elysium, which on paper, Elysium is him being smart and unfortunately the movie's dog shit.

1:23:59David Sims:Similarly, Monuments Men. Right. Same deal, right? Then Interstellar, which he's unbelievable. Interstellar. But it's a secret performance. Right. That's him doing Labib. That's him being a goshaw player. That is definitely Labib.

1:24:11Griffin Newman:He's good at that shit. Then he does The Martian. The Martian is his life. So The Martian is the first one. Yeah. But that's, yeah, that's 2015.

1:24:19David Sims:And then he does the two movies after The Martian that felt like his I need to get a surefire hit. Yeah. And both of them don't work. It's Jason Bourne and Great Wall are both 16. Great Wall.

1:24:29Griffin Newman:But Jason Bourne made a ton of money. It did. It's just no one remembers it. Great Wall did okay. That movie's ridiculous and I unfortunately hurt his feelings and I feel really bad about it. Oh, no. I wrote like a snarky article when everyone was making fun of him. Yeah. And then he, in some interview, was like, I fucking love The Atlantic and like ton of Aussie coats that I saw. Like, even they were going after me. And I'm like, sorry, Damon. You're like, hey, it's me. It's not any of the intellectuals. And honestly, some of them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But like, he cares about this shit. And he's smart.

1:25:04He made the movie so he would make a billion dollars in China. What the fuck are we talking about?

1:25:08Griffin Newman:And he was like, I wanted to work with Zhang Yimou. And I'm like, I get it. But you also wanted whatever.

1:25:13David Sims:But Martian was such a big hit, right? And gets him another Oscar nomination. And is such like, what's good about him? It's a movie built on his role. Without him, it's not good. All of his strengths, right? the fact that Great Wall and Jason Bourne are the year after that tells me that like two years earlier he was panicked of like I have not had a movie star hit since Bourne ended and who knows what the Martian's gonna be so here's like a Zhang Yimou like China co-production at a time where China's taking over Hollywood and let me go back to Bourne and by the time the Martian comes out it's like oh fuck he's got like two unnecessary movies coming up which as you said But Bourne made a ton of money, but in a way that was like people showing up for jury duty.

1:25:57David Sims:Of course.

1:25:58Griffin Newman:And then we're like, yeah, he shouldn't have gone back. Is someone going to say, oh my God, that's Jason Bourne? Someone said it. Great. Cool. I mean, I love him. I feel like he's in a good spot now. Like Ford versus Ferrari spotted him into his new, like, kind of like, right. I'm just the best. Great in Oppenheimer. Kind of dad. Great in Oppenheimer. He rocks in. And listen, am I mad that he rocks in? Am I mad that no Greek people have been cast in the Odyssey? Yes. and maybe if this had happened like I'm pissed because I feel like maybe if this had happened maybe even two years later I get to just be like in the background you know some guy that gets killed so fast can you be Dionysus can there be like a cut up to the heavens

1:26:37David Sims:I would love to be Dionysus dude this shit's crazy here's where I'm positioned for the scary movie version of the Odyssey when they do the Nolan when they get the band back together and they do like a spoof of Nolan's movies I get to be killed in the Odyssey part of it. Friedberg and Seltzer's Nolan movie. Let's get the Seltzers back. Yeah, absolutely. It is.

1:27:00Griffin Newman:Now that I'm looking at it, it is funny that it's like, you can't just fucking get Benny Safdie and John Leguizamo and shit in here. It's like one. I love them. Yeah, these are all great. And look, at the same time, it's mythology. It's cool that it's no one is from anywhere. Everyone, it's one of everything. But it's like, it should be like the Olympics where the home country gets one, even if they're bad at, you know what I mean? Not to be rude about Greece though, but isn't this what Greece pulls once in a while? It is. Give us an Olympics. Well, yes. We've been to the Olympics. It's our artistic Olympics.

1:27:26Yes, yes. Where it's like the home country, even if like, you know, even if fucking America.

1:27:30Griffin Newman:And then they did the Olympics and everyone was like, these Olympics aren't that well run. And they're like, give us a break. Yeah. It crippled our country. It will cripple our country for a generation. We have empty stadiums instead of fucking schools, but whatever. But every time you host the Olympics, you automatically qualify for every sport. Yes. There should be at least one Greek person in the Odyssey. You can't do the Odyssey without one Greek guy. and it doesn't have to be me. Who are the big Greek guys in movies right now? We don't really, I mean, we don't, I mean, is it me? It might be you by accident.

1:28:01Is this by accident? Is it me? But I mean, like, give us, give us like, you know, Greek, get Nia Verdalos in there, man. Get Nia Verdalos. Get Nia in there. Wait, have you a Nia? We've DM'd a couple times. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. I gotta get, she's the dream, she's the dream, absolutely. She's the dream, Stavi's world guest. Yeah, She's a fucking icon. I mean, still the most profitable, independent, romantic comedy of all time. Believe me, we talk about My Big Factory. Still the most profitable romantic comedy, period.

1:28:26David Sims:Period, you're right. 100%. For many years, it was the most profitable comedy, and the only thing that overtook it was Hangover 2. Oh, which is bullshit. Yeah. That's crazy.

1:28:34Griffin Newman:I mean, yeah, I'm trying to think of like Greek celebs generally. I mean, it doesn't have to be celebs. I did a little Google. Yeah, get an art actor. Get one of Yorgos' guys in there. Get one of Yorgos' guys in there. My favorite thing about Dogtooth was I saw that movie. Get the cast of Dogtooth in there. Get all of them. Oh, you know what? The dad. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nolan's like, we're taking a break. Yeah, let's see the dad's cock again. That was more disturbing than the siblings having sex. Like the dad's dick just hanging out soft watching porn. To me, that pissed me off more. Dogtooth is one of those things where I saw it.

1:29:07Griffin Newman:And I was like, oh, this is depraved, but this is really interesting. Incredible. That's an interesting movie. And then like you realize, you start, you know, and Grease submits it, you know, and it gets the Oscar nomination. and then like someone was like they threw like a parade in greece for dog too because like it was their first oscar nomination for foreign film in like decades and i'm like just thinking about like the national government being like we love dog tooth what a great movie normal we love like we're spreading greece around the world baby dog too that's what we got going on i'm a little worried that i've been able to hide my success from my greek family but being in a yorgos movie it's like it's over bro he's like i'm done the king over there yeah

1:29:47David Sims:I'm doing a little Greek actor search. Sure. Jennifer Aniston. Doesn't count. Elias Codius. Okay. Costas Mandalore, David's favorite actor from the Saw franchise.

1:29:57Griffin Newman:Oh, wow. That guy. Oh, God. That guy stinks up the Saw franchise so bad. I don't even know. Yeah, I don't know these guys. In the later Saws. You know, when Saw, you know, fucking Jake Saw. Not a later Saw guy, unfortunately. Oh, really? You're doing all right. I'm a later Seagal guy. I'm not a later Saw guy. You know, the whole problem Saw has is in Saw 1, he's like, I have cancer. Right. So by like Saw 3, he's dead. By Saw 4, they're like, we'll do an autopsy. But like, he's dead. So by Saw 5, it's like his protege who's Costas Mandalore, who stinks. And it's like three more of him. Everyone's just looking up Greek actors.

1:30:30David Sims:I know, but this is my point, is that there's not much of a battle to get to the number one spot. No, I'm trying, bro. I'm trying. Again, I don't know how it happened, but I'm trying. I mean, the movie's going to come out and I'm so bad in it. I've never allowed to fucking act in anything. Or like, they just take me off tires are so bad at this. Yorgos calls us. He calls you between this and then he's like,

1:30:50Griffin Newman:I replaced you in the movie. It was a bummer.

1:30:52David Sims:Sorry, man. It's so funny that we've just identified, right, that like Damon clicked into his perfect like sort of middle-aged stage as movie star, which is the sort of like Ford versus Ferrari, Stillwater, Ayer, like he's fucking polo tucked into khaki pants, kind of like this guy just is comfortable being just like dad bod, you know, stuff shirt, whatever. Oppenheimer, same thing. And then it's like, right, no, next year, he is playing the lead in Nolan's fucking Oppenheimer follow-up. He's Odysseus. He's crazy. He's all as hell. He's going to like have his most dominant like movie star badass film ever.

1:31:35I mean, I am really, I'm so curious and excited because this is such a, it's such an insane throwback. Like this is like, it's so star studded. it's a fucking epic it's like I think it'll be awesome but I'm also like I have a hard time wrapping my head around how it will be so good it feels like a really hard thing to fucking pull off but I believe everyone in it I believe in and Nolan is the man but I am it's not like I I don't think it will fail but I'm like how are they going to pull this off the expectations are going to be sky high

1:32:06Griffin Newman:the expectations are sky high I have no doubt that it will like deliver visually right that it's going to be like he's shooting in these beautiful locations on IMAX. It looks crazy. The production value is off the, you know, all of that. The story of the Odyssey is cool. And it's like episodic. So we can have all these fucking Zendaya drops in and does some shivering. Anne Hathaway is there, whatever. That's a cool idea. But like, I just don't know how he's going to do the language. You know, like, because you can do the thing that Troy did where it's like, yeah, it's like English. Right. You know, like, just do that.

1:32:40Griffin Newman:And it's like, that's fine. but the whole magic of the Odyssey, the poem is like the language and I'm like is he gonna try to crack that? It's not really Nolan's I don't know. You know strong suit exactly is like not dialogue. It's all gonna be Bane voice. Everyone's gonna do garbled Bane voice and Bane masks. Cosmo Jarvis had to drop out so they replaced him with Logan Marshall Green I'm like you're just taking one Tom Hardy guy and turning him into another Tom Hardy guy There are different parts of Tom Hardy I know Nolan and Tom need to patch it up whatever happened there whatever we gotta squash the beef I need Hardy to make a good movie again yes and I need Nolan to like you know have him play some weirdo it's just like so funny that because because of this beat that we have built for ourselves you think Nolan watches like the Venom movies

1:33:24David Sims:Nolan watches everything he does of course he watches the Venom movies because of this beat we build for ourselves right it's like when Oppenheimer just keeps going up and up and up we're like how the fuck does he follow this we've covered him years back We think about his career a lot. And you're like, he does kind of have this oscillation between like him doing like nerdy little boy sandbox gee whiz shit and his more prestigy stuff. And a little bit of like one for them, one for me. And then Oppenheimer is like a one for me. That is him going like highbrow that plays like a fucking blockbuster.

1:34:00David Sims:And you're like, so does he do like a tenant now? Or does he do something even headier than Oppenheimer? we couldn't even conceive of what kind of thing he would try to do next and when the tweet dropped that was like Christopher Nolan the Odyssey shot entirely in IMAX we were like yeah you're right it had to be this or the Bible they were the only two things he could have done in this position if you're Nolan coming off of Oppenheimer you gotta do one of those but that's the thing it's like this feels like you say the Bible this feels like the fucking Ten Commandments with Heston this feels like Ben Hur this is like some shit that is audacious in the way that movies haven't really been audacious.

1:34:37In the 30s, it's like, how the fuck are you going to pull off a stadium full of people? And they just would do it, whatever. Now it's like, we have all the technology, we have all this shit, but it's like, this is such a fundamental core text of Western civilization. So star-studded. The language is hard. And by the way, the fucking length. Nolan's movies, you could argue, are too long to begin with. I can't, that's more so than the language. Deeply episodic story. The language is like, is this going to be 10 hours long? I know. What the fuck? How do we do this?

1:35:06Griffin Newman:Hey, no one, can we trim it? Like, he'll just be like, and they're like,

1:35:09David Sims:yeah, yeah, you're right, you're right.

1:35:10Griffin Newman:You know what?

1:35:10David Sims:Everything you do works. But I think he was right that like the level of cachet he has right now, if he's not doing that, he's playing it safe. Sure, sure. He's got to go that hard. Sure, sure, sure. What were you about to say? I was going to say, fuck it, they made Wicked two fucking movies. The Odyssey is going to be one fucking movie? Like, that's crazy to me. If anything needs to be a universe, every dog shit I I'm not saying wicked as dog shit I'm just saying like every idea becomes like a fucking universe like this literally is the universe of mythology this is like if anything needs to be four fucking movies it's the Odyssey I mean even the movie that just came out with fucking what's his face who's playing old Odysseus fuck why am I blanking on this yeah they just did that the return with fucking...

1:36:02Oh, Ray Fiennes. 20 years later. That's a movie that is... Ends with a tease. That's the movie that's like the fucking last four pages of the Odyssey is a movie. Right. How the fuck is the whole Odyssey going to be one movie? So anyway, that's what I'm worried about. But now, if you told me we get 12 hours of Nolan's Odyssey, I'm the happiest guy in the fucking world. I'll do any version of this.

1:36:24David Sims:I'm there. But anyway, they should at least have the kill bill treatment of, yeah, there should be one movie, really, but we have to, for whatever reasons, break it up. But anyway, all that being said, I will be there fucking day one in IMAX. I can't wait to see it, but I just am interested to see how they're going to pull it off. Well, True Grit's kind of another version of that where it's like, this is them cashing in all their chips for something that sounds like, why would you do this? And then it's so much more successful than anything else they've done that they come off of this and it's like, great, we'll make your fucking failed angry musician movie.

1:36:54Griffin Newman:Yeah, yeah. You guys are invincible. It does give them some rope to do some weirder shit for a while.

1:37:00David Sims:Right, because this is the one that should have been their cash-in and instead it's like a double guarantee. Right, right.

1:37:04Griffin Newman:And like... It's crazy that it's their most successful. It's by such... It's also crazy that in 2010, America was like, yeah, yeah, this is like the kind of Christmas entertainment we're after. Like, we want this. Totally. I think what I'm realizing is for me, this is such a cultural blind spot because just in my life, I think I was like so depressed and pretending I was going to take college seriously. there's the year i quit stand-up and like was working really hard in college and i didn't i didn't see anything that's that's maybe also why i didn't see the shit in theaters i like you you guys named all these movies that came out in 2010 i'm like i don't even fucking remember those you were so you were true what were you studying what was your major i was a i was a i was a uh public affair i was in a public affairs scholarship program and i was like you know just taking it serious taking like you know uh welfare policy seriously i was interning at the Maryland House of Delegates.

1:37:58I was like, you know, trying to lose. I was trying to get my life in order, trying to lose weight. I was, you know, finally, I was like, I got to take shit seriously. I got to be a good student. I got to get a girlfriend who's a nice person. And that's always a tough one.

1:38:11David Sims:Finding a nice person. Yeah. And she was, she was very nice, but I feel bad because we started dating. And then in the year that I was lying about who I was, like the guy she dated doesn't exist. A guy who does his work.

1:38:23Griffin Newman:She's dating like a package. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, hey, check out this package. Does all his homework. Does all, you know, does all, you know, literally wears a tie, whatever. And then like a year in, I'm like, oh, can I crash at your place to do open mics and not see you? I'm going to come home fucked up at 3 a.m. And then she's like, all right, well, you have to fuck you.

1:38:42David Sims:And like angry about my failure to locate a tag. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You want to hear me rant about this at three o 'clock in the morning? Yeah, can you and your friends from grad school come see me bomb at an open mic 40 minutes away? Like, God damn, I feel so bad. But so, yes, I think I was just like at a cultural because before this, I was so I was so into trying to learn about movies, trying to do stand up starting over 18 to 20. And then 21 was I was like, I have to fucking become a real citizen. But so, yeah, I'm kind of relearning all this. And then when you start talking about the rest of it afterwards, I'm like, oh, yeah, this is when I start coming.

1:39:16Then you reconnect. Yeah.

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1:40:05David Sims:Would this movie be as big a hit today, Griff? I don't know. It's another thing, and we should talk a little more about the... Yeah, we can talk a little more about it. Let me say a lot more about the meat of the movie itself. But, David, glance at the clock. I don't glance. I think we should talk about Watson more. What's up with that guy?

1:40:22Griffin Newman:It does feel like... Barry is the voice of Sherlock Holmes, I'm finding. Oh, nice. Hell yeah.

1:40:27David Sims:There will be these types of movies every couple of years, right? Where, like, everyone points to it and goes, see, there's an underserved audience. You're not making movies for Red State America. You're not making movies for older men, right? There's this audience that will come out if you give them what they want. But anytime anyone tries to replicate it, it doesn't work, right? So there are the things like Passion of the Christ and American Sniper and Sound of Freedom and True Grit that feel like weird one-offs where for whatever moment, for whatever reason, an entire audience was just like, actually, we've been waiting for this.

1:41:00David Sims:That's supercharged what was already there. People who have kind of stopped going to the theaters show up in droves for this. It's not like there were the entire audience for this, but clearly part of this movie doing so well was like 80-year-old John Wayne fans be like I think so I think it has to be I don't know man I think of all the movies you just said true grit obviously clears those movies they're so it's so much better so much better and but you're right maybe there was some element to that but I just think maybe it was the kind of thing of like all the cohen brought like maybe it is just even though they had two movies between this and uh no country for old men like I don't know I just feel like it was it was that it was Coen Brothers stuff.

1:41:41I think there was another thing. But maybe it's Western. Maybe it is Western, right? Maybe that's what you're talking about.

1:41:45David Sims:And them being like, we're doing a classical Western, right? Yeah. And this movie is so much more classical than any other film they've made. The other thing is that, like, the Christmas box office is insane. There is, like, this 10-day corridor when basically everyone's off from work and school. Right, right, right. And families are together. And it's a PG-13 movie. It's a PG-13 movie. And, like, December 20th... And we'll do the box office game. The competition is bad. To January 1st. Well, this is what I was going to say. That corridor, if you can get a movie in there that sort of becomes the default, I guess we all go see this.

1:42:16David Sims:Like every day between December 20th and January 5th kind of plays like a Friday. You just have like a run of Fridays. And the two big movies that people thought were going to be the big blockbusters that Christmas were Little Fockers, which kind of disappointed. I did see that in theaters. So maybe I was. That's the era of my life I was in. I was like, I'm a regular guy. me and my girlfriend are going to see Little Fockers and then we're going on Ruby Tuesday absolutely

1:42:43Griffin Newman:then we're going to Ruby Tuesday

1:42:45David Sims:meet the Fockers that come out in this exact slot six years earlier and it was humongous did fine but it was not a cultural game changer wildly outgrossed it and there was that thing where like Fockers opened bigger the first weekend and then True Grits overtook it the second weekend and stuck the other movie that everyone thought was going to kind of run the table at the end of the year you're just giving away

1:43:05Griffin Newman:the box office

1:43:05David Sims:but I have to do it was Tron Legacy. Yeah, this is the weirdest shit. Jeff Bridges is in both these movies. He wins his Oscar March 2010, right? And then I remember December 2010, he hosts SNL and he's like, hey man, I got Tron Legacy and True Grit. And it was like, oh, he's got a big Legacy blockbuster and he's got his like arthouse Cohen movie. Right, right. And then like True Grit and Tron Legacy end up at the exact same number. And Tron Legacy is seen as a disappointment. And True Grit is seen as a sensation. but in both cases like Tron opens really big Little Fockers opens big and then both of them drop off and True Grit just stays and just kind of holds for weeks and that's the it sucks that a good movie needs so many things working in its favor to just do well but I think maybe it's as simple as that maybe it's not the like because you know the like they have a cult following built in maybe it's as simple as the two things it's up against on Christmas kind of suck And even though they see, and actually they suck in a way that's important because they suck in a way that gets people thinking about going to the movies.

1:44:10And they're like, that kind of was bad. Maybe I should go see a good movie.

1:44:13David Sims:I was excited for this. Or I liked the old one. I heard this one isn't great. And then suddenly there's a movie that quietly plays well for grandpa and granddaughter. Right. And everyone in between. Right, right, right. I do think in the name value of it. But yeah, I don't know. I just like, I'm always kind of like heartened by how successful this movie is when I watch it and I'm like, it's so deliberately paced. It's so thoughtful. It's so verbal. You know, it is like a movie that like doesn't...

1:44:42Griffin Newman:It's not action-packed. It's not. It has stuff, but it's mostly walking around. But you start the movie. I mean,

1:44:48David Sims:it takes like 15 minutes maybe before Rooster enters.

1:44:51Griffin Newman:Right. You got the slow ramp up of her explaining who she is, her being a little...

1:44:55David Sims:Her adult narration, which is from the book that it's framed by the adult version at the beginning and the end. but you know what's funny when you say it's not action-packed you're never obviously you're never bored but it's like the way you when you said it's it's rated pg-13 that kind of shocked me when you say it's not action-packed that kind of even shocks me a little bit because so much shit is happening and she is again this this performance is so electric that it almost feels like action movie scene her bartering feels like it's a fight scene essentially You know what I mean? I completely agree with you.

1:45:30That's the magic, though.

1:45:31Griffin Newman:That's right. Her bartering early on, though, you're just like, I'm all in on this girl. It's why this movie is endlessly watchable. And it's the magic

1:45:38David Sims:that every great Scorsese movie has where he's just like, for me, it's just identifying the tension in every single scene. So every scene when you're watching it feels like the best scene you've ever seen in a movie. There's stakes to every scene. Exactly. That are like internal and that like humilatively build to a greater whole. I mean, Labeef showing up in her fucking bedroom is so weird and fucked up. It is. I mean, And it's like, that's just what she has to deal with and she knows it. Exactly. Right. She's not shaken. Like, that's nuts. But she has to sleep with a grandma, number one. Which, by the way, those are comedically hysterical.

1:46:12Yes. The cuts back to fucking her sleeping with a grandmother after she tries to rent a room. She's like, oh, it's okay. Yeah. You can sleep with granny, whatever the fuck. So, so funny.

1:46:21Griffin Newman:And then, right, has to deal with this stranger coming in a room, harassing her, being mean. and sort of threatening to basically cut in on her shit too. Like she's like, she's on a mission and he's going to mess it up. The beef keeps messing up their mission. Yes. And also,

1:46:36David Sims:he kind of doesn't mean to half the time. Three times? Yeah.

1:46:39Griffin Newman:He has three different returns. Yeah, they added some. In the book, he doesn't depart from them as much. I think they just thought it was like, it gives the movie a bit of a bit of a bit. I think it works. Yeah, I think it definitely works. But even just weird shit happens. The bear guy, you know, where there might have been a lull, you get that guy to just mesmerize you. And then, again, where they come on, they come upon the guys where it's like, what's his face? Gleason.

1:47:03David Sims:What did surprise you to hear, this is the only Coen Brothers movie I've ever auditioned for is the guy who gets shot in the leg. Wow.

1:47:10Griffin Newman:It's like a simper and coward. That's fucking hilarious. You want to crush that scene. It is cool that it's Domino Gleason. It is. That you're like, oh shit. And I always forget that it's him and I'm like, wait, because he looks like shit. So you're kind of like, it's totally him. The only cool parts of the original were that that part is played by Dennis Hopper. Dennis Hopper. Right. And that who was like a hell raiser. Robert Duvall is Barry Pepper. And Duvall is Barry Pepper. So that's the those are the only two cool parts. It's also it's not just that it's cool. And famously Duvall was a huge pain in the ass on set.

1:47:39Griffin Newman:Because you're watching this new guy. Exactly.

1:47:42David Sims:It's like Hopper and Duvall are like starting the new Hollywood movement and different acting styles. And they're in a far more modern film than everyone else. Yes, for sure. It's like, well, that looks like a bad gunshot. You're not there. Yeah. Hopper's the only one, even Duvall's performance, Hopper's the one where I'm like, this is, he's actually good in it. And he's the one that would fully, you could swap him and fucking Gleason and it kind of makes sense. But that's part of what's interesting is it almost is a structure like the Odyssey where there is a clear end goal in sight. But from the beginning, everyone's telling her this just might not be possible.

1:48:18David Sims:No one's been able to find this guy. This guy's unimportant. You should just drop it, right? She's got three people, including herself, on this case. And they're not making progress. And a lot of the scenes in this movie are dead ends. They keep moving geographically forward. They're moving further and further towards Comanche territory? Choctaw. Choctaw. But yes, there's this feeling of this might be in vain. And also these weird side quests that don't necessarily get them any closer to where they want to go. and then they do just stumble onto the guy. You are not LaBeef.

1:48:54Griffin Newman:Yeah. One of the best. You are not LaBeef. Two of the funniest lines to me and I was like cackling and my wife was like, are you all right? Like this one is, you are not LaBeef and the other is, I do not know this man after she cuts down the guy. Which is like such an anticlimax. Who's like, maybe I know. And he's like, nope, let's move on. Another great one. That's not an action scene but you're fucking, you're like, she's going to die. You're like, someone's going to find, Yeah, so much tension, a little there will be bloody, where it's like, even where nothing's happening, you're fucking like, whoa, something fucked up is right on the bend.

1:49:28Griffin Newman:It's like they're on Venus. They're just in this alien landscape. Like, what is this place? Like, you know, and like, when the first time I watched, the first couple of times, you're kind of like, yeah, they have a goal. They're going towards whatever. After a while, you're like, they're just in the middle of nowhere. And there's just like, it's basically the map is basically like, there's a river, like go near that. Like, that's kind of it. and like if they get lost or someone breaks their leg or whatever you're kind of just screwed like all this shit just feels so dangerous the more you watch it and like you realize like when so when Rooster says like fuck it what's the thing he says over and over again I withdraw it's not that but what's his he has like a catchphrase

1:50:09David Sims:this is the thing it's hard to quote this movie because the language is so precise that you can't paraphrase it

1:50:14Griffin Newman:yeah you know that's him being basically like I had one play, which was I go to my guys. I sniff out if these guys have been around and I get the drop on them. In classic rooster way, I shoot them from far away. And then maybe I get closer and shoot the rest of them. And if they don't have info, then I don't know. I got spooked. I mean, they got spooked by Labeef. Now I'm out of ideas. Like that was my one idea. I'd like to now return to my rope bed and my whiskey. Yes, yes, yes. And, you know, in the movie, it's a little bit like, oh this is the you know this is the dip before our triumphant third act fine but as you watch it again and again you're like no yeah he's just like this is the extent of being a good tracker yeah yeah and i had the same thought of like the on the rewatch this time being like oh yeah you know oh yeah here we go the darkness before the dawn bullshit but then you're like you know what this is fully earned this guy's a fucking drunk and and we've all been there right where it's I've been there where it's like you know you've been you've been trying to go against your nature and that's a lot of this here right it's like he's like he doesn't want to do from the beginning he doesn't want to do this she convinces him part of it is about money of course but it's like he still is doing something he doesn't really want to do and then and you you give into your vices and it's like you know what fuck this I am it I really am a piece of shit right I'm an idiot for thinking I could be better I'm gonna this now he's not made me better I'm now worse yeah I'm the kind of guy who quits on a fucking little girl i don't give a fuck i'm drunk that feels very real to me yeah and then labeef event essentially being too much of a fucking pussy to do it also feels real to me because it's like this is your time to shine labeef this is it and it's like oh no he's a fucking coward he's a piece of shit and it was just like yeah these they would just a bit these are this is the way these two guys would abandon this girl damon and bridges

1:52:11David Sims:both identify what the real versions of these guys would be. Not the movie archetype versions of them. Yes, yes, yes. Which is what's really smart, where you're like, these are guys who fashion themselves characters. A bow out. Bow out. He's just like 50 times.

1:52:26Griffin Newman:A bow out. Like it's him saying, I declare bankruptcy. You know what I mean? Where he's like, I'm done. Right, right, right. You find your own way.

1:52:34David Sims:But like, Labeef is all like sort of conscious, forced iconography, right? that he is playing the role and talking the talk of a Texas lawman. And then Cogburn's the opposite way where you're just like, him having an eye patch isn't cool. Totally. It's not Snake Plissken. No. It's like, this guy's broken. No. Like, this guy's, half of his body doesn't work. Of course.

1:52:57Griffin Newman:Of course. He's like a fucking beaten down car. That's why I like that in the cornbread shooting scene, he does get a couple shots off. Yeah. And he also falls on his face one time and gets tangled up in his horse one time. and you're like, yeah, this guy's like a, you know, D &D character where it's like, yeah, good dice roll. He's kind of a joke, but he's not like, he also is legit in other ways. And one way he's legit is that he's happy to just shoot someone's face off. Right, right, right. And he's not going to be like, no qualms whatsoever. Worried about that. Yes, yes. And you do hear that, yeah, he fought with Quantrill during like Bleeding Kansas.

1:53:32Griffin Newman:This is all like background that you don't have to think about that hard. And he's so unintelligible that the first time I saw the movie, I didn't know what he was talking about. for half the movie. Like, all of his monologues about New Mexico, I'm like, I don't know what he's saying. It's just funny. But like, he fought with Quantrill, who's like, a terrorist. Like, who's just going around bleeding Kansas, like, doing insane shit. And it was like, yeah, he was like a hardened, crazy person. And that part of history is interesting. It's what Ride with the Devil is about. Remember, we covered it long ago.

1:53:59Griffin Newman:And, like, Damon Labeef is like this other, like, Rooster's basically like, I just need to keep going further and further away from civilization to do my shit. Labeef is like, I'm from Texas. Like, we're proud. Like, this is a nation. Like, you know, I'm a Texas Ranger. I have a badge. I'm proud of my badge. Rooster's like, I like my badge because it means I can legally steal whiskey. Right, right, right. And I'm a criminal with a badge, is Rooster. Yeah, he's like, I'm an officer of the court. Some asshole gave me this badge. It means I can take your whiskey. Yeah. Like, and that is the force of law.

1:54:32Griffin Newman:Yeah.

1:54:33David Sims:The other, I mean, the part of this film that gets me so much emotionally by the end is that, like, I think this is a very fascinating, precocious child movie, right? And that the magic trick of her performance is that it doesn't feel like a kid trying to play a grown-up. And that every scene, the innate tension is her being able to convince someone that she knows what she's talking about. As you said, it's why it helps to not see the father. That you're getting the sense to some degree— Just that tableau right at the start, the corpse, that's it. You see his corpse, right. But you assume that she must be modeling behavior off of her father.

1:55:08David Sims:that she must have learned things off of him and that people at first interact with her as if like, oh, this is cute. This is a little girl who's memorized phrases that she's heard cowmen say before and she can like parrot them back well. But it's like in her actions and her consistency and in her quickness, she shows to people like, oh, I guess I actually do have to treat her like a grownup because she's proving that she actually does know what she's talking about and can walk the walk, right? And where this movie gets to ultimately is by her being treated like a grown-up when she was a child and being validated in that way and then having this insane experience, she basically is frozen Amber for the rest of her life.

1:55:49David Sims:Like, the sadness of the end of this movie is that you're just sort of like, well, she never grows past this. It's almost like that thing of people who get famous too young and then you're like frozen at 15 because that's when you became a superstar. it's like the mix of like the highs and the lows of what she experiences in this week of her life of being treated as an adult and then getting exposed to all of this is like she's just stuck there forever. And so everything that's kind of like funny and charming about this like hard talking coming out of a 12 year old when you see it Elizabeth Marvel as a woman in her 40s at the end you're just sort of like wow this woman's intense.

1:56:28David Sims:Yeah. But she's talking the exact same way she has talked in the beginning.

1:56:31Griffin Newman:I mean, also, we got to point out at this time, women didn't really have freedom. Correct. Totally. So this is maybe an impactful moment where she actually really got to a taste of it. And there is kind of no going back for her.

1:56:42David Sims:But then in the future, right. She's an old spinster.

1:56:46Griffin Newman:She's going to get some fucking husband who like tells her to cook dinner. Absolutely not. Man, how many beans are in this movie? We haven't even talked about the beans. Talk about the beans. God, what's the thing, the hominy thing that they have? Oh, that they're making for eight or whatever. Right, where he's like, I like a big breakfast. It's like this tanker.

1:57:03David Sims:Yeah, huge. Do you know what's one of my favorite pieces of business in this movie? That he has the pack of tobacco with the string on it, almost like it's a teabag. So he holds that in his teeth while he makes the roll.

1:57:15Griffin Newman:Yeah, yeah. Another tiny detail I love, when the lady offers to give her a flour sack for five cents to carry the gun. That's what I think the Wild West is, or the sort of semi-Wild West. is like everyone is basically always like horse trading. Like every item is usable. It is like a video game where it's like you pick a flower and you're like, I could probably do something with this. Exactly. Like this has got to go in my satchel. Like everything's got to be used because like it's not, there's nothing, you know, you want to like get something from the East. It's going to take like two months.

1:57:51Griffin Newman:Even a rotting corpse. Well, that guy's like, I got the teeth, which is kind of my thing. If you want the rest. I'll trade him back I'm not gonna fuck it you guys wanna fuck it give me a quarter you know what I mean if you want me to watch you fuck it that's two quarters no I just love that guy incredible guy the best where they're like it's cold and he's like yeah well I have my bear thing that's unspoken we didn't need to we get the purpose of the bear thing

1:58:25David Sims:I also like that he I feel like they're so good at knowing when to do this. It's the Cohen tone management thing. But that's the one scene where they kind of crank up the broad comedy of like, what if this guy just like sounds like a King of the Hill character? Can we get away with two minutes of the guy being like, I'm the bear man. But dude, but that's the Cohen, it is the Cohen magic because it's not only broad comedy, but it's also like mystical. It's the most it feels like Dungeons and Dragons. 100%. Where it's like, who the fuck? Because at first you're like, are they, is this guy a fucking zombie?

1:58:58Is a bear going to kill them? Right. Then is some bear wizard going to kill them? Then it's like, oh, it's the funniest guy you've ever seen. He's actually so nice and helpful.

1:59:06Griffin Newman:He's like, yeah, that house over there won't be used right now. He won't mind much if you, you know, toddle over the river. I also think it's the key

1:59:13David Sims:to a Greg Cohen's performance is like them being like, you know, it'd be really funny if a guy sounded like this. Yeah. Or if like a killer had a Dorothy Hamill haircut, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then they hire the person and they're like, your job is to play this as seriously as possible. but I'm giving you something stupid to do yes here's a voice here's a costume here's a look here's a characteristic but then like try to actually ground it as if it's a real guy

1:59:34Griffin Newman:I think about every guy in this movie like the guy who runs the bridge you know the damn thing like that's that guy's job the lawyer like the facial hair in this movie their only form their lives are torture and their only forms of expression are weird facial hair that's all they have it's so many mustaches and sideburns and like shapes you wouldn't even consider. It's crazy. That lawyer is so good. That's what I would be, right? Like if you like, you know, because I watch Deadwood, right? Which is like the best show ever. And Deadwood is like 80 % of people are basically like, well, I'm into like whoring, drinking, gambling.

2:00:09Griffin Newman:And it's like, that's what I do out here. But Soul Star is the guy who's like, these people need fucking hammers. I'm going to sell them hammers. Like there's a couple guys who are like, I'm just going to go all the way out there and have a shop. Right, right. And I would be the guy who's like, well, I talk 10 % better than everyone else. So I guess I'll be a Trixie lawyer. you know like that'll be my job because that guy's rocking it he's like how many steps are we talking about he's out foxing Rooster by the end it's pretty

2:00:33David Sims:unshowy in it's craft outside of just like obviously you know the production design the costumes and everything just being fucking immaculate right but you're introduced to Rooster you have her knocking on the outhouse first or is that after the courtroom that's first

2:00:49Griffin Newman:yeah that's the thing we have a minute of Rooster before all the other stuff happens right behind a

2:00:54David Sims:closed door while he's taking a shit. That's another hilarious movie.

2:00:58Griffin Newman:Rooster spends like 90 minutes in there, right? He doesn't just take care of business quickly. No, I think he's playing emoji blitz on the toilet. In the 19th century were like a really intense experience. Think about the types of hemorrhoids Rooster has. He eats like one fruit a year. It's crazy how fucked up his ass. We're talking about a baboon's ass. this is a man who said nothing but whiskey and beans for 40 fucking years he eats whiskey and beans occasionally he'll get I think what they call back then a steak which was like some like crispy piece of beef right that they like destroyed in a cast iron pan and like more whiskey more beans I think beans are why people were alive because beans actually right they do enough for us I've heard that the more you eat the more you eat cornbread peppers maybe

2:01:51David Sims:raw peppers I don't know what else

2:01:53Griffin Newman:Not a lot of greens, no.

2:01:55David Sims:Stavi, my dad, when we were growing up, would wake my brother and I up and then go and now I'm having pop executive privilege time. You guys just got to be ready to go in an hour. Awesome. And he had boxers with a bunch of paper towels stuffed in the back. Hell yeah. Four newspapers under his arm, two mugs of coffee, goes into the bathroom, closes the door. An hour later, he comes out.

2:02:17Griffin Newman:He goes, it's time for school. Two mugs of coffee is a move. but he post it's like I'm not coming out to refill post news news times right

2:02:27David Sims:he's carrying like 15 inches of news under his arm and the two mugs and just go you guys just figure it out for the next hour like I'm a dad that's how Rooster Cogburn takes a shit I'm a dad

2:02:39Griffin Newman:I can go you know into the bathroom with my phone

2:02:42David Sims:and I can like

2:02:44Griffin Newman:load up the Wikipedia page for fire and read it you know what I mean like I have too many things at my face it's too easy for me back in the day you needed like yeah like Newsweek the thing about and here's the thing why Rooster it's there's nothing it's just he is just shitting that long yeah that's it's just his body is that you don't think he's reading

2:03:04David Sims:like a Tijuana Bible or no there's no it is him versus the outhouse and it smells bad he doesn't want to be there but he's trying to get done as fast as possible it's taking 40 minutes because that's just how it is this is one of those movies that pit is cooking it's terrible dude it's one of those movies where I think about how bad every character smells yes right you're just like this would be the stinkiest and that's another reason why you don't think about it not being 13 it feels rated R because it's gross because they look gross there's a sheen to all of them they all smell like shit they're all sweaty the only person who's sort of clean is Maddie I guess

2:03:46Griffin Newman:Maddie is basically put together and like knows it.

2:03:51David Sims:Does he have some fucking like old cowboy cologne? He's got some like pomade in his hair or whatever. Is he a Dapper Dan man? Right. He's got the cowlick of course. Yes.

2:03:59Griffin Newman:But like you know one of the most touching little moments is when she puts the newspaper in the hat. Like she knows she has to look the part a little bit. It's the only time she's literally a cute little kid. Right. Is when the hat goes under her eyes. It's adorable. But then she stuffs it in and she's like and now she's back to being the character we've known the whole time. And she looks like some Cormac McCarthy character like where it's like, oh, who's that? And it's like, oh yeah, they call her like the cactus and it's like some 14 year old who like takes people's faces, you know, like she could, she's got like this stony intense face.

2:04:30Griffin Newman:But then I love the little moments when she realizes that the campfire that Labeef or Rooster are about to fight and she's like trying to cheer everybody up. Right, I'll do all the parts. Someone has to be the caller.

2:04:43David Sims:She starts to become like the child trying to stop her parents from fighting. And she understands that the only thing that unifies these two guys is they don't like the other one being mean to her.

2:04:51Griffin Newman:Yes. And like this movie is bad if she is just autistic, right? Like if she's just like a weird robot girl or whatever, you know, like then it's like, that's fine. But like, no, she's a kid. There's bits of kid in her, like of like whimsy. The movie makes you as a viewer

2:05:09David Sims:do the same calculation that every character who meets her is doing. I was like, is it possible that she's for real? Yeah, for sure. You know, you're not calling bullshit on her, but you're actually going, she might actually be what she's saying she is. Yeah, absolutely. Which isn't even her framing herself as a wonderkin, it's just, I get it. You don't have to talk down to me. I can handle this.

2:05:30Griffin Newman:But, okay, so what are some other, you know, we talked about the Dick and Matthews, the trial. He keeps kicking the kids off the porch. It's just a fun little moment. I don't know why. It just seems like he's done it a million times. They clearly have a rapport. I need to just call him out by name

2:05:47David Sims:because I've misattributed it so many times. Leon Russom is the sheriff who recommends the three trackers. And says he likes to pull the cork. And says he likes to pull the cork. He's in Lebowski briefly. Oh, yeah? He's in Star Trek 6, the Undiscovered Country as chief in command. I don't remember what that part is, but it is just my favorite chunk of dialogue where she says, who's the best marshal? And he takes a pause and he goes, I'll have to weigh that. and the decision to just be like let me actually think about this before I say it and then it's William Waters is the best tracker he's half Comanche and it's something to see him cut for sign and he's playing it like he's like

2:06:25Griffin Newman:overjoyed the movie in his mind being like

2:06:28David Sims:this guy's got the tracking skills Rooster's the killer Blanca's a big green guy and he's got electric power you gotta hit Y Dalcim stretches really far yes absolutely the meanest is Rooster Cogburn he's a pitiless man double tough and fear don't enter into his thinking. Loves to pull a cork. He's moving on, right? The best is probably L.T. Quinn. He's like, you know what? Here's the answer. I've landed on it. But then he says the thing. He brings his prisoners in alive. Now he might let one slip by now and again, but he believes that even the worst of men is entitled to a fair shake. And without missing a beat, she says, where can I find this rooster?

2:07:02David Sims:Yeah, yeah. She's like, I'm not interested. I'm just pumping my fist that whole exchange. Everything that's happening.

2:07:08Griffin Newman:Yeah. So, yeah, like she gets, all right. like she gets rooster on the road i'm just trying to think of stuff i'm going through the plot stuff we haven't stuff that happens stuff that happens in the movie uh you know i talked about the scene where she kind of wins them over by fording the river awesome stunt looks like she literally did that how did they how do you make a horse look tired at the end when the horse is like dying and you're like that horse is dead like yeah how do you like fake a horse being tired you don't know i don't know horses are crazy that's another reason that by the way i want That's the actual reason ketamine exists.

2:07:41I know. We found cooler stuff for it, but that's what it was for.

2:07:48Griffin Newman:That's why basically starting with, I don't know, the 1850s or whatever, I basically want to live in New York if I live in this time. 100%. Because I'm like, I need railroads and shit. I'm not going to learn to ride a horse. And then feed the horse. Well, there's horses in New York. They had horses here. that's why brownstones have stairs so you wouldn't you weren't around shit you're a little bit above the shit that does make sense that's the funniest thing about the gilded age my favorite gas leak show in the world is like everyone in it is clean and I'm like they'd be dirty this is a dirty place it's the 19th century there's no running there's no flush toilets yeah you're clean for two hours two hours a week you're clean if you're rich you can't go home and be like I'm gonna take a shower No, that's not going to happen.

2:08:36Griffin Newman:You want to take a bath? Eight people have to start getting shit ready for you.

2:08:40David Sims:I was talking to my girlfriend about how much of a nightmare Burning Man seems to me. And even any music festival as well, where I'm just like, my two favorite things in the world are sleeping in a bed with the air conditioning blittering and taking the longest shits and showers in the world. That's all I care about. Absolutely. A bedroom that's cold and a bathroom that's ready to go.

2:09:05Griffin Newman:Yeah. Day three at a music festival. The port-a-potties are rough. I'm not doing it.

2:09:10David Sims:But it's my biggest thought when I watch this movie is I'm just like, oh my God, they don't even have like Tempur-Pedic mattresses. Yeah, I mean, yeah, it's the other thing. Like, what's Rooster's fucking back looking like? Like, dude, I'm fat as shit. And like, if I sleep on the wrong hotel mattress, I'm ruined for a fucking...

2:09:28Griffin Newman:What you just said is my life right now. It's crazy. Every morning I wake up and I'm like, why am I in excruciating pain? And it's like, because you didn't move your body for a while. Yeah. And you're like tall and large. Yeah. Like he's, when he's sleeping in that rope bed, fucked up off whiskey. I'm like, this is crazy. He's always drunk, right? Like that's how he deals with it. But even still,

2:09:48David Sims:that makes the balancing act of it even more impressive that he's staying in there. Yeah. He's impressive. He refers to it as a rope bed himself. It's not like we're being rude. No, no, no, no. Yeah. No, we're not being rude. He sleeps on a bunch of ropes. and that's the thing about rooster as a character it's like what his greatness is eroding every second like he probably was a specimen that could ride forever and he could the cornbread shot if you catch him 30 years ago he's nailing all those like that's the thing about him is that he is the fucking remnants of a fucking terminator yeah like when he's one of those terrorists or whatever yeah he's he's a fucking machine but he's a piece of shit but it's like and yeah he is you're catching him at like, you know, this is the last little bit of this guy being a fucking legend.

2:10:36David Sims:Like living in a world this tough, right? It's going to break you down one way or another, right? You become evil. You kind of become broken and crazy like this, you know, or you become like LaBeouf and you just sort of try to like put your head above all of it and not really engage with it. But yeah, this is a guy who's just like lived this life for so long that has kind of taken everything from inside of him, which makes his reveal gradually that he cares about her so touching to me. Because this guy almost thinks he doesn't have emotions anymore. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, like it's like, I just lost those back in the trail 10 years ago.

2:11:13For sure. Yeah. And maybe he has. I mean, maybe he, yeah, he doesn't until he finds her. And then in terms of shit that just happened, it's like, so, you know, we've covered the little fucking the shack, which is one of my favorite scenes. And then Labeef getting absolutely got, just not even able to get one like what did he think was going to happen and getting dragged and then like the humiliation of Rooster being like

2:11:35Griffin Newman:should I take your tongue out digging around in his mouth those dirty ass fingers we were just talking about completely in his fucking mouth dangling away his already fucked up tongue it's brutal

2:11:46David Sims:he leaves for the first time after the first night right so there's the campfire fighting and then the morning the next the argument about whether or not he can shoot He leaves for the first time

2:11:56Griffin Newman:as soon as she forged the river. Right. He's like, I'm out of here.

2:11:59David Sims:They do the campfire that night,

2:12:01Griffin Newman:don't they? I guess so.

2:12:02David Sims:They do do a campfire and then the next morning is when they do the shooting thing and then he leaves. He's like, I just fucking hate this guy. I'm sorry. I wish you all the best. Then, right, the bear man, the body hanging from the tree, the cabin with Donald Gleason, all that happens without LaBeouf. Right. And then he interrupts

2:12:17Griffin Newman:their stakeout. He fucks the plan up. Yes. Unintentionally. And then comes out of it

2:12:21David Sims:so much worse for wear. Right.

2:12:23Griffin Newman:And then they're like, I guess they feel bad. They're like, okay, we have to drag you around now. Well, she feels bad. That's the moment where she starts to show some like... Because she's like, he stood him down. It was brave. Yeah, exactly. He was going to draw on what's Ned Pepper.

2:12:41David Sims:Another incredible line is, it astonishes me that Mr. LaBeouf has been shot, trampled, and nearly bitten his tongue off, and yet not only does he continue to talk, but he spills the banks of English. Yeah. Which just anytime Rooster says anything that eloquent, it's so much funnier.

2:12:59Griffin Newman:He takes like four minutes to say a lot. Anyway. And then, yeah, we are kind of like, I guess the animosity kind of builds up again. And we lead to the next big fight. The I bow out. And which the funny thing is they were right. They were just a day early. because this whole plan he's like they're prop my only hunch is they're going to the claim their claim and they just beat them there right because they're they literally wake up show up if they don't have that fight they're fully and by the way if if he doesn't get drunk probably there's no big deal right because the whole fight they would just show up yeah it's like all right let's get a night's rest and then we got the drop on these guys exactly right and instead maddie finds brolin uh what's brolin uh tom chaney yep shoots him awesome i love it right Right.

2:13:50Griffin Newman:Both times she fires a gun, she does get knocked on her ass, which is what happened to me if I fired a gun. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because that is what happens. And you know, guns back then sucked. Like, it's shooting like a dumb metal ball at you. It hurts. It doesn't necessarily like kill you. And he's just like, my life sucks. I hate you. But he grabs her and like, she's the hostage. And then you've got this like fantastic 10 minutes of Barry Pepper with the crazy teeth. The little pepper on the dish. Just being an absolute Goblin. Looking like the Crypt Keeper. And I just love that he... Is the gang called the Pepper Gang?

2:14:23It's the Pepper Gang. That's hysterical. He's playing the Pepper Gang.

2:14:26Griffin Newman:I do like that he has the weird kind of samurai thing with Rooster. Absolutely. He's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm not going to kill a girl. I'm not like a weirdo. I'm just like a bandit. I like steal shit and have money. No, no. It's true. It's like it's the most you kind of get the Rooster's like, we've come across each other as guys. We've each been on you know, there's probably been a time where Pepper had a badge and I didn't have a badge. He was technically the sheriff and I was technically the criminal. Like they clearly have like this long, weird history. And yes, that that samurai type honor shit is pretty fucking.

2:15:02David Sims:It is also it's the stuff that Cheney doesn't have. Right. Like she's so angry at the idea of Cheney stealing her father. And yet it's like his death was incidental. It didn't mean anything. This guy's got no strategy in his head. Yeah. He's got no internal belief system. Yeah. Yeah. He's just like some idiot with a gun. Yeah, like if her dad had done something that warranted and made some kind of mortal insult to a guy and the guy shot him in a duel, she'd be sad, but she wouldn't try and find him. She would be like, you know. That's life. The fact that it's meaningless is what gets her and the fact that when she meets him, it provides no answers or clarity to anything.

2:15:38David Sims:It only makes it more meaningless. And then you're also like, yeah, and this guy's like the number five in this dude's pack. He's so stupid. He's like unimportant. Yeah, yeah. I love that every time LaBeouf leaves, he also has like his version of the emotional Oscar scene. He keeps doing the thing that Rooster won't do, which is like, kid, you're special. Yeah. I believe in you. Oh, yes. I want to say that. And Damon has like two monologues that feel like this is his last scene in the movie. And he plays them really straight. But like, here's the important words I have to leave her with, which makes it all the funnier when he comes back.

2:16:11David Sims:Well, and I think to me, it shows you what a fucking blowhard. Yes. this kid like because it's when it's that time we're talking about earlier at the campfire where rooster is being a piece of shit and he's like fuck you i'm not helping and this is labif's time to shine and not only does he not help but he gives some meaningless eloquent speech instead and he thinks saying a i guess giving her a heroic speech that your words are more they couldn't be less useful they are the most useless even it's like the most politician like you know we're gonna give a big speech about how hard it is to fucking to be you know to live in this you know everything's too expensive but we're gonna raise taxes on you you know what I mean or we're gonna give billionaires a tax break exactly it's the most two-faced bullshit you're special whatever whatever not gonna help you by the way it's like show don't tell right like rooster is all action.

2:17:06David Sims:Yes. And LaBeouf is all tell. All tell, yeah. He can't do anything without telling you why he's doing it and why it's impressive and why you should be impressed. Yeah. And, like, the fact that Rooster never even has a moment of being like, eh, you're a good kid.

2:17:20Griffin Newman:Right. Like, he won't give her an inch verbally. Right, right, right. But he never, I mean, he fakes being like, oh, she's nothing to me and you take her. But in his actions, you can tell. Of course. He respects her. And he's going to go get her back. like and you're weirdly never it's tense it's scary that she's with uh tom and like labeef saving her is exciting but you're also kind of like yeah rooster's got this well also because you kind of i mean that is the thing of like starting with the adult you know she lives yes you know what i mean like that takes i do think that it that took the bite of like does she actually die like this movie's kind of fucked up you know you don't but you don't know if rooster dies.

2:18:00You don't know what happens to LaBeef. You don't know what

2:18:02David Sims:the fucking, what happens. Well, it's also what she tells you at the beginning, which is like everything, there's nothing free. Everything comes at a cost. There is some give and take in any action you do in this world, right? And it's like what she doesn't understand is like she got what she wanted and it kind of maybe fucked her up forever. And the moment of her having the standoff with Chaney and him trying to like sort of Frankenstein walk towards her on the cliff and she has the courage to like stare him down and fire the gun. And the moment when he shoots, not Gleason, but the big guy with Gleason is so good because there's a really quick shot to Haley Steinfeld of her being like, oh, I've witnessed a man being shot right in front of me.

2:18:41David Sims:And you realize in that moment, this is the first time she's seen this. Totally. Right? This character, you see her going to a public hanging at the beginning of the film. It's not like she's never seen a dead body. She's seen her father's dead body. But this kind of like standoff, you know, in a fiery cabin, she's never seen before with like sweaty men. And so that moment where she's there with Chaney, even though we know she knows how to fire a gun, she knows how to do this, she knows how to do that, you wonder if she'll be able to do it in that moment. And she fires the gun, successfully kills him, but immediately also is like pushed back into a ditch from the recoil because right, immediately she's a tiny girl.

2:19:16David Sims:There's like a physical reality here. And now she's at the girl at the bottom of a pit surrounded by snakes. And it's like a child in danger. Like at the peak of her triumph than her victory, she's knocked all the way back down to like, you are a child in a dangerous world. Snakes are also really fucked up.

2:19:32Griffin Newman:Yep. I said this to my wife. I was like, snakes feels like something I made up when I'm a kid, like dragons and shit. Yep. Like, those are just real? Yeah, little tubes that can kill you. Right, that just like, come out of nowhere. Do you get into these conversations? Poison in them? Like, the poison's crazy.

2:19:47David Sims:Do you get in these conversations with your daughter? I feel like, look who's talking to as a version of this joke where it's like, wait, so which things are real and which things aren't? Yeah, yeah.

2:19:56Griffin Newman:We're real. Dragons are not. Snakes are presently. I'm not getting into that with her yet because I like that she just likes unicorns. And I had a great convo with her the other day. Did I tell you this? Where like she's had bad dreams and I was like, dream about something nice. And she was like, what? And I was like, dream about unicorns. And she's like, okay. You want to know my unicorn names? And I was like, hit me. And she's like, poop. Poop the unicorn. Pretty funny. And I was like, Johnny. Johnny and poop. Poop Johnny. And Johnny poop. That was the four. Four beats. She did four beats of the game.

2:20:26Griffin Newman:And I was like, it's one of those things where I'm like, that's kind of funny. That's kind of funny. Oh, you're like doing slightly more complicated humor now. Yeah. Anyway. She's not leaving any meat on that bone either. No, no. She found every problem. She worked out all four corners of the square. But yeah, I don't want to tell her unicorns aren't real because I don't know. Who do I care? Maybe they are real. But you're right.

2:20:46David Sims:Snakes do feel like a thing that should be. They feel fake.

2:20:49Griffin Newman:They're like from the Bible and you're like, yeah, that's like a monster from the Bible. That's not real.

2:20:52David Sims:Here's this girl at the bottom of a pit, right? She's immediately scared and crying. Like she's showing vulnerability for the first time, basically in the entire movie. Just from being down there, being hurt, feeling stuck, calling out for a rooster, not hearing any response. Also, there's a good chance no one ever finds me down here. And what's been powering her the whole thing is this absolute like mission, you know, locked in the missions now over. Now she is just a little kid in the fucking pit with nothing to drive her. No, nothing. Their furnace, all the coal has been burned. You just fucking killed the guy.

2:21:27It's Jessica Chastain at the end of Zero Dark Thirty being like, what the fuck do I do now? I killed Osama Bin Laden. Tom G is the Osama Bin Laden. He's Osama. Yep, 100%. And it's also, I will not, it's also the most on the nose. I mean, at the core, this movie is one of my favorites of like, I'm a big revenge movie guy. Totally. And the lesson almost always is it's not worth it. It's not going to make you feel better. It's never worth it. It always fucks your life up more. And this is in they hit that in multiple ways. I mean, we will we talked about a little bit. I'm sure we'll talk about the end and a little more.

2:21:59But this in the moment is the most on the nose. The gun you fire to kill the guy backfires and leaves you in a pit of dead bodies and snakes. Right. I mean, that's the most like granularly and in the biggest sense. The metaphor is so loud.

2:22:15David Sims:The whole thing that's been driving her has suddenly like dissipated and now she's got nothing and she's in danger and to like reach for a dead body while she's kind of like whimpering right like she's clearly like okay but I still have enough wits about me to figure out how to get my way out of here you pull for a dead body it's a fucking skeleton body with a knife and a sheath and then you reveal tummy full of snakes crazy visual

2:22:40Griffin Newman:to see a tummy full of snakes knifed corpse full of snakes is a fucked up visual not just like oh there's one snake hiding here but like a full belly of snakes. And they're all rattlers. You hear the rattling. You know they're poison. It's not just you're going to get bitten. You're going to die. You're going to die. And like the whole... I was... I am like... I was shocked when the first time I saw it because I think I hadn't read the book yet. But I'm like, she loses her arm. It feels so cruel. Like I was upset the first time I saw this movie. Now you're just like, yeah, she needs that. Like it's like her battle wound.

2:23:15Griffin Newman:And like it means like she can just be this, like the woman she becomes like rather than having to like deal with some gentleman call or whatever.

2:23:22David Sims:It's like Rooster comes down there, right? He shoots all the fucking. Goddamn. He is in Terminator mode then.

2:23:28Griffin Newman:Like then he's in full battle mode. Like the last HP or. Yeah. He does the fucking. Bang, bang, bang, bang. Yeah.

2:23:34David Sims:He does the X over the snake bite with the knife, which I love. And then spits out. Sucks and spits out the venom, right? Then pulls her back up. And then this thing where like the sky turns into this bizarre fantasia as the score is swelling. those shots are like horseback different levels of sunset it's just like on the nose beautiful cinematography it's so good but also part of the implication is that she's like hallucinating like it looks like starry night yes yes yes and she's just like looking up at the skies this guy's riding along and as he realizes like the horse is giving out I gotta stab the horse because the panic from the stab will make it run a little bit faster for a short period and she's calling out don't do it don't hurt the horse this world is too like cruel can't do it horse is fucking dead he shoots the horse to put the horse out of its misery and then just fucking picks her up I know

2:24:27Griffin Newman:it rocks so hard

2:24:28David Sims:and they like make it just in time for him to collapse fire a gun into the air just enough to get someone to walk outside I'm gonna start doing that

2:24:35Griffin Newman:when I show up at the studio I'm just yeah

2:24:38David Sims:and you're like she just made it by a moment and then you hard cut to she's an adult woman

2:24:43Griffin Newman:with one arm and has never seen him again and it's that But I love the idea that it's like they had a bond or whatever, but it might have almost been too intense for them to see each other. But also, like, by the time she wakes up, the arm is gone and he is gone. Yeah.

2:24:56David Sims:She never communicates to him again. He doesn't want to, like, look her in the eye after that. He can't deal with it. Because he was vulnerable. It's too emotional. It's too emotional. And he writes her...

2:25:03Griffin Newman:We didn't even shout out, fill your hand, you son of a bitch, which is, like, the coolest thing anyone's ever said in a movie. But yeah, so he, yeah, he... Taking the bit in his teeth. But, like, I love that also at the end of the movie, what she's going to, those Wild West shows that would travel the country at the turn of the century, it's like, that is the end of the West.

2:25:19David Sims:Which you're saying, like, now it's become this, like, fossil. We're dealing with the last, like, And it's like these old cowboys. pound of toughness this guy has in him. Right. He's about to become a novelty. Right. And he's gonna spend the rest of his life after this moment. Yeah. Being like a children's entertainer. Those shows were just guys being like,

2:25:36Griffin Newman:I remember I saw Wild Bill Hickok three times. The first time he looked me in the eye and he said, you got any sugar? You know, They're like, whatever.

2:25:44David Sims:And then they shoot the bottle and everyone applauds. Right.

2:25:47Griffin Newman:And then a beard lady comes out. So she's mad that the other guy doesn't stand up. Is that why she calls him trash? Absolutely great that she just fires that off. The one guy takes his hat off. Yes. The other guy doesn't. The other guy's just like...

2:25:59David Sims:Yes. But yes, no, he writes her a letter inviting her to come to the show. And by the time she gets there, they're like, he died three days ago. Brutal. And to this point, in the same way that like... Too hot. Brutal. Yeah. They're like, it got kind of hot. Yeah. Not really a warm weather guy.

2:26:14Griffin Newman:If there was a breeze, then you might have made the, you might have reconnected with the most important person in your life. You were, I mean, the amount and you get the sense that this is not a woman who, like, looks forward to a lot. And you, and her life has not been easy. And yes, I think the biggest tragedy is the heartbreaking part of this is that she peaked. This was the best moment. This was the worst and best week of her life. It was the most alive she ever was. And to Ben's point, you're not, you know, like she, this is the week that she triumphed over being a woman in the Wild West and being a child.

2:26:49She escaped the dangers that like being, you know, that being that kind of person, you were in danger and you overcame all of that. You earned the respect of like tough fucking killer cowboys. You killed one. You personally fucking killed the guy that killed your dad. And your reward for that is you'll never feel as alive. you'll never feel people won't you won't be able to relate to people you probably were kind of a weird person to begin with absolutely who does this girl even become if she doesn't do this that's the thing she's probably kind of annoying

2:27:22Griffin Newman:an odd sister who keeps the books

2:27:24David Sims:the only alternate path for her is if they successfully talk her out of going on this mission in the first place and go now you gotta go to finishing school yeah they're like put down the fucking gun and the hat we're gonna teach you how to talk and walk like a proper lady become a school teacher and then marry someone. And then like the woman she is at this point, the end of the movie, you're like, she could have been like a sassy lady who owns a saloon and doesn't take any guff. But she's almost like, that's like a parody of a person. I'm just going to be me, right? And there's no place for me in this world.

2:27:57David Sims:And she's not, Elizabeth Marvel's so good with such little screen time in this. But like, she won't let on how excited she is to see Rooster. In the same way that she feels like if I shoot Tom Chaney, it will resolve my anger about my father being taken for me. She clearly thinks if I get to have one final emotional conversation with Rooster, the conversation that wins Jeff Bridges the Oscar, this will all come together for me. And she gets there and they're like, no, just by happenstance, he died three days ago. This is a little too hot. Life sucks. And then she sort of says like, I heard that LeBeouf's maybe still out there.

2:28:33David Sims:He'd be 80 now, probably. I never got in touch with him.

2:28:35Griffin Newman:Probably not. Right. He's probably dead. And then she just walks off

2:28:38David Sims:and it's just time comes for us all. That's the best thing. But you're just like,

2:28:42Griffin Newman:oh, that's it. And then you're like, yeah, of course that's it. There's nothing good. The ending line,

2:28:46David Sims:she delivers as if there's more to the sentence. Right. She doesn't. She's about to say one last profound thing. She goes, time comes for us all. And you're like, what's the end of the thought? Done. Walks off. Music swells. Directed by Joel and Ethan Collin. It's a perfect movie in my opinion. It was incredible. And yeah, so heartbreaking. And yeah, and even the Labeef thing, she's like she even in that she's like i would have i kind of she's still holding i hope that at least she'll see labeef i think even in the way she says that it's like you can tell she wants this so bad and that's you're right the actress's name you said elizabeth marvel yeah yeah it's so little screen time and you can and she never says anything that tells you she wants this and you it's palpable how bad she's steely yeah and how much she's disappointed and maybe a little bit of it leaks out into the like calling the guy trash a little but even that feels more like no I will disrespect anyone who's disrespectful towards me.

2:29:45I'm not gonna take off. I'm not gonna take off but man being able to communicate how devastating it is for her is. And yeah and even it. Life is bullshit and nothing good ever happens and even if you have an adventure where you're the can't you figure it out and you do everything you possibly want to it ultimately doesn't make your life better. It probably makes it worse. You lose your fucking arm over it. Congrats. Now you don't have an arm and you're fucking pissed off and then the end of your life also sucks. Well, here's the other quietly

2:30:16David Sims:quietly profound and depressing thing that happens at the very end of the movie. I agree with everything you just said. The other quiet and profound thing that happens at the end of the movie is that it hard cuts from her telling the guy who stayed with the hat on to go fuck himself, right? And then she says she got the casket, she tracked down Rooster's body, so she could try to bury him properly.

2:30:36Griffin Newman:She got it out of that, like, random cemetery. Right.

2:30:38David Sims:And what's written on, the casket says, Cogburn, Yale County, hold that station. Same thing her dad's casket says. Right. It's got, like, a fucking shipping label on it that's, like, trash, you know? But that's how they labeled her dad's casket. Yes. So she just gets the casket, and then it hard cuts to her standing at his gravesite in the snow on top of this hill, and in that shot, she's aged another, like, 20 years. She's got old age makeup on. So it's like 20 years after the moment where she, we're not seeing her bury him. We're seeing her return to the grave. And you can just fill in the blanks and be like, I guess she probably just comes back here and checks on it a lot.

2:31:18David Sims:That the closer she never got with this guy, she just comes back and was like, I need to have him in a place where I can go visit and just stare at him steely-eyed and then walk away.

2:31:29Griffin Newman:Right. And everyone's like, did they? You know, that's like she,

2:31:32David Sims:and I'm like, hmm, big day. Right, right. Because everyone's like, why would you take the casket of a man you didn't even know that well? What is this? You knew for a couple of days. They don't get it. They don't get it. But I get it. It's another funny thing to consider is you think about how rough a shape Rooster's in for this movie. If she'd gotten there three days earlier, he would have been bad. Yeah, true. Right? That's like Rooster 25 years later.

2:31:58Griffin Newman:I mean, at this point, he must spend, I don't know, three, probably a planchette Check episode worth of time on the toilet. And he did like blank check and he did listen to it. I'll forget the BMs out. I'm a bit of a David dog. This movie came out Christmas Eve 2010. Griffin opens number two. You did say numbers one and three, but just to remind us. Fockers is one. Tron Legacy is two. No. So Fockers is one. Yeah. True Dread is two.

2:32:26David Sims:Legacy has been out for a couple of weeks. Correct.

2:32:29Griffin Newman:Yeah. Those are the big three. It's not a great time at the movie theater. This is the whole thing where I'm like, Shrugit rocks. Yeah. I defend Tron Legacy, but obviously it's like a basically baffling movie to release to a wide audience. Little Fockers, dog shit. Number four at the box office is the, I don't know, like third or fourth in like a fantasy series. I think it's the last. It's not Voyage of the Dawn Traitor. It is. That's three. They only made three. Yeah, right. I can remember how many of those they made. Yeah. But like, that's something where everyone was like, sorry, no, we don't want this.

2:32:59Griffin Newman:They're like, the Chronicles of Narnia continue. I was like, no, man.

2:33:03David Sims:We were kind of out on that from the beginning. I was talking to my dad about this last night, and he was like, so is Greta Gerwig still doing like Narnia 2? And I was like, no, she's making her first Narnia. Right. And he was like, but wasn't there someone else made a Narnia like a year or two ago? And I was like, bitch, that was like the fucking Bush administration. 15 to 20 years ago. And he was like, did anyone like it? I was like, first one, huge hit. Right. People flocking. And they were like, I guess this is the new Lord of the Rings. Second one, huge drop off. Disney abandons it. Fox is like, I guess there's still money in this, right?

2:33:34David Sims:The kids don't cost much. What do you got to pay for? A lion? And they put that one out and everyone's like, I don't know. Who gives a shit? Really? I don't even know for... And just abandon it. It was like, due to lack of interest, they never finished the books. That's fucking hysterical. And she's now...

2:33:47Griffin Newman:Those books only get weirder and it's harder.

2:33:48David Sims:But she's adapting different books, right?

2:33:51Griffin Newman:Isn't she doing

2:33:52David Sims:Magician's Nephew in theory?

2:33:53Griffin Newman:I have no idea. Okay. That is canonically the first. Isn't that the most like... Chronologically. Harry Potter was a big, hit we have to just fucking that's the most classic Hollywood should have like whatever's similar it was Potter and Lord of the Rings both launching the same year

2:34:10David Sims:it was like yeah it was the same year they both come out right after 9-11 yeah wow Harry Potter's Thanksgiving

2:34:16Griffin Newman:Lord of the Rings is Christmas and America is like yeah we love British people doing magic yeah and defeating pure evil yeah yeah I saw that that's another definitely saw Harry Potter I was a big Harry Potter book guy when I was a kid I mean you're a couple years younger but like that's I was too I mean the book was for our generation like and now I don't like the book as much but I love J.K. Rowling's politics that's the thing I kind of shifted my friends you gotta separate the eyes from the artist I'm a big fan of the artist my problem with the books is that they don't talk about that stuff enough like you know like that's I kind of I'm flipping through the books and I'm like yeah but where's all the good Rowling shit this is someone who hasn't really found their thing yet

2:34:54David Sims:oh god the thing that clearly makes you really happy you sit back with a cigar and tweet and I go, what a happy woman you seem to be.

2:35:01Griffin Newman:Right observation in the world, but like, can't she just buy a yacht? It's crazy, dude. Get off your phone. You want to look at Twitter? That sucks. It's crazy. That sucks for no matter what. You can like buy anything you want. You could like be like roast me a swan and someone would be like, I'm on it. Like, fine. I'll fucking kill a swan for you. It's the true grit shit of like anyone who's got the making who wants to be rich as fuck can't chill. Yeah right You have to be No I gotta get mad About something That needs more money Anyone who wants To be president Is innately kind of A psychopath There's not one good person That's ever wanted to be president Not one Number five Of the box office Is oh yeah Okay A kids movie Adaptation of a kids cartoon It's an adaptation Of a kids cartoon Is it like It's another dog shit movie This is dog shit time Is it a continuation Of a cartoon Or it's like a later It's like a Flintstones movie

2:35:56David Sims:Ask That live action

2:35:58Griffin Newman:but with you know it's not it's not a Smurfs it's not Smurfs

2:36:04David Sims:but it's one of these it's like a there's a CGI thing

2:36:07Griffin Newman:with some real people there's some actor who's you know wants to kill himself every night it's not that but again you know tell me

2:36:12David Sims:the source material is like Saturday morning cartoon yeah yeah yeah

2:36:18Griffin Newman:December 2010

2:36:19David Sims:I'm trying to think of like what the shitty and this is one that I imagine just didn't really work no I mean

2:36:24Griffin Newman:I don't think the movie is good but I think it you know Is it Yogi Bear?

2:36:28David Sims:It's Yogi Bear.

2:36:29Griffin Newman:It's Yogi Bear. Yogi Bear. Yogi Bear.

2:36:32David Sims:Quietly to hit. Aykroyd and Timberlake. Justin Timberlake. Of course, Dan Aykroyd and Justin Timberlake are the voices of Yogi Bear. And who's the real life actor? Tom Cavanaugh is Ranger Smith, but then Anna Faris is like the reporter. Yeah, hell yeah. Shout out to Faris. What's the story she's breaking? A bear steals picnic baskets? I hear the bears are stealing picnic baskets. Yeah. There's an incredible video. It's so well done that people thought at the time was this like a VFX artist on the Yogi Bear movie going rogue and it was just like posted by some anonymous account. But it is the end of, not the end, but the titular assassination of Jesse James.

2:37:07David Sims:I've seen that, yes. Being done with the CGI models of Yogi and Boo Boo. That is very funny. It's really good. Where is Anna Faris, man? She's so funny. It is weird. It sucks, man. I mean, she had the sitcom for a resilient year. She has seven years of mom. I guess nobody makes comedies anymore. That's a big part of it.

2:37:24Griffin Newman:Nobody makes comedies anymore. nobody like takes women over 40 seriously in movies. I'm still pulling for the comeback. When I was in high school, I'm aware she,

2:37:33David Sims:I believe she's playing the main villain.

2:37:34Griffin Newman:Okay. That's fun.

2:37:35David Sims:Yeah. Lily pad. I think, uh, I made a bet to my friend, Jake in high school. I was like, she is going to win an Oscar. Wow. I'm like calling it now. Like I'm a big Ferris guy, but I don't know that I would have made that one. It was because she had just had the small parts in lost in translation. Awesome at that. And broke back mountain. where it's like she was in two fucking Best Picture nominees. No, she's got it. I guess you're right. She's kind of got it. Where she's got small parts. And I was like, and clearly good directors recognize she's got more she can do. And I was like, someday someone's going to find the perfect kind of like dramedy role and she'll win supporting actress.

2:38:10David Sims:And it does feel like we've gone a little off course. I'm pulling for the comeback. There's like a very profoundly upsetting New Yorker profile on her when What's Your Number was coming out. And it was about how hard she had fought to prove that she was a movie star and how like she was the lead of four scary movies that were all big hits. But they were like, yeah, but that wasn't because of you. And she had to fight so hard to get the House Bunny. She was for so long playing like the best friend or the crazy ex-girlfriend or whatever it was, but never got to be the star of the movie. House Bunny was her thing.

2:38:44David Sims:House Bunny was dumped. It was a big hit. And she was like, great, now I have fuck you power. They'll let me do what I want. And she sets up what's your number. And the whole article is about how they were like, can you be less weird? Can you be kind of like a little more? What even is what's your number? I don't even know it.

2:39:00Griffin Newman:It's terrible. She's like, I had to marry one of the guys I've fucked. She finds out that she's fucked 20 guys.

2:39:07David Sims:And they're like, if you haven't already found the one and you fuck 20 people, then you're a whore and you should be thrown into the garbage. Right. So you have to pick from one of the 20 guys. You can't be to know guys. So she goes back to the previous. No, it's so much worse. It's that Chris Evans is the new guy she meets who's her next door neighbor. You can't fuck him because she already has 20. And then at the end of the movie, Aziz Ansari leaves a voicemail and he's like, hey, I got your call. Actually, we never fucked. We just did hand stuff. And she's like, I'm at 19. I can fuck Chris Evans.

2:39:40David Sims:It's directed by Mark Milad, who later becomes the main director of Succession, directs The Menu. What? It is like the crassest, dumbest comedy. It's so fucking bad. That sucks. And it bombed. And they were like, never mind, you're not a movie star. And then she goes to CBS. And the crux of that article is she's like, my dream project is I have been developing comedy single white female. Hell yeah. And they keep going like, great, we'll give that a green light. You're of course going to play the Bridget Fonda part, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You'll play her grandmother. Right. No, I want to be like the weird psycho.

2:40:14David Sims:And they were like, no, you're a leading lady now. You can't play weirdos anymore. where you have to be like romantically. But what she would rock.

2:40:20Griffin Newman:Whatever. She would rock. Yeah. Let's bring Ferris back. Ferris back. Just to give you the other six is The Fighter, which is a great time at the theater. That's another Christmas hit. Saw that with my girlfriend. You guys have a good time? We did. We loved it. In fact, I remember Wahlberg's back gave me body dysmorphia. I was like, fuck, I want that back. I was talking about how I wanted a back like Wahlberg in The Fighter for like months after that. You're like going to gyms. The back specifically. and they're like what are you talking about yeah yeah yeah also he's like

2:40:50David Sims:our size that's the other thing he's short he's a short king yeah Melissa Leo of course beats Haley Steinfeld for best supporting actress this year

2:40:58Griffin Newman:correct number wow I really this is crazy how I thought I was checked out on culture I don't know I think I was just mad at Burn After Reading because I was dumb how did I not see this because this year

2:41:10David Sims:is like social network King's Speech ends up winning most of the big awards the fighter The best movie of all. 127 Hours, Kids Are All Right, True Grit. True Grit is one of the most nominated movies with zero wins. It's so weird that I missed this around this time. It's so weird. I don't know.

2:41:28Griffin Newman:I mean, it doesn't win because they had just, everyone had just won an Oscar. They're like, well, the Cone's just won. Bridges just won. Like, you know, like that's the reason. Score is disqualified because it uses so much traditional music.

2:41:37David Sims:But like, it not winning cinematography, costume, art director. Who won Cinematography?

2:41:42Griffin Newman:Well, okay. Cinematography went to Social Network, I'm pretty sure. like the thing is social networks kind of the big critics yeah I mean it's good but I mean the cinematography true gritty no argument for me my friend I love this movie so much

2:41:55David Sims:but like King's Speech wins costume

2:41:58Griffin Newman:is that right that movie sucks that movie yeah the whole thing with King's Speech is you're like if that movie had won zero Oscars then I would be like yeah it's a fun the king has to do the speech right they were like best picture of the come on up king and you're like no come on like especially it's in the green book category of like if it doesn't win anything, you're like, this is kind of stupid, but fun. Yeah, yeah. I mean, do you remember that? Yeah. I mean, like if Green Book had won the Oscars, I'd be like, that awesome movie where Viggo eats the whole pizza. Like, that movie's good. Do you remember that thing where there's

2:42:30David Sims:the really weird room where they do the lessons in King's Speech that has those bizarre cracking paint and all that. Cracking colored walls. Everyone's like, where did they find this location? And then guys on gay Twitter were like, I know where they found it and pulled up that there's like a ton of gay porn that was shot in that exact room. Awesome. That's fucking awesome. And just like Twitter was flooded with screen grabs. Someone's got to do the like the parody of a gay porn parody. Every time the guy's about to suck dick he like hesitates. And he's like, no, no, no, focus. Open your mouth and suck the dick.

2:43:04He's got a debilitating stutter that stops him from... From giving guys head. From deep throat. Yeah, from deep throat. He has to be taught to relax the throat. David this is good it's very important I know I agree

2:43:21Griffin Newman:I'm not mad about it I'm not at all David's head is in his hands I just have to tell you that number seven at the box office was Tangled okay good movie a great movie I watch it all the time with my kid my favorite movie of that era number eight is oh right new this week Giant Bomb the Jack Black Gulliver's Travels movie oh wow nine is Black Swan which he said basically killed his career for like three years This is such an interesting era because all the big movies I'm saying, Fockers, Gullivers, Narnia, like suck. But then you have like True Grit the Fighter and at number nine, Black Swan, which are like grown up ass Oscar movies that make a hundred million plus.

2:44:00Griffin Newman:The Fighter got over a hundred. Yes, like these like, you know, proper hits for grownups. Now they would all be 10 episode Hulu miniseries. Yes, yes. And number 10, the box office, of course, is The Tourist with Jolie and Pitt. You're right though.

2:44:13David Sims:Like the expected hits are all kind of bombing.

2:44:17Griffin Newman:Yeah.

2:44:17David Sims:And then actual. So audiences are like,

2:44:19Griffin Newman:I guess I'll see the movie where the girl like rips her nails off and like makes out with Mila Kunis. This is a movie. Fine. I don't want to see Narnia. Humongous. That movie's awesome. That's like, this was a year. It's just funny that mainstream America was like, yeah, Black Swan. Fine. I'll take a piece of that.

2:44:33David Sims:It feels like this was a year where six out of the 10 best picture nominees made over a hundred million dollars. It's a stacked year at the Oscars. Because Black Swan, True Grit, King's Speech, Toy Story 3. We forget the fighter. Social Network probably got close.

2:44:48Griffin Newman:Of course, Winter's Bone made$400 million. Inception. Inception. Like there's a summer movie. Six of the nominees. That is a huge like original hit,

2:44:57David Sims:you know, and all that. But that's the thing that it feels like we've lost is like family together on Christmas and they're like, I heard Fokker sucks. I guess we should go see the Coen Brothers Western instead. Today you'd be like, I heard Fokker sucks. I guess we stay home and watch YouTube. Exactly. Yeah, you're right. Absolutely. This was the last gasp. There's no let's try seeing something a little off the beaten path. Although Christmas still might be the one time where people go to the movies. Because people are tired of staying at home. Yeah, yeah. With all the family. And it's such a tradition of like, go see a movie.

2:45:30David Sims:I mean, Nosferatu made a ton of money at Christmas. I loved it. I loved seeing that shit.

2:45:34Griffin Newman:I'm so excited for that. Like for... For what? For Vervolves? Yeah. You're excited for Vervolves? See, that to me is kind of like... That is parody shit. The way we're talking about the Yiddish policeman's union is too on the nose. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Him being like, they do fucking work. That makes where we'll make... Which, by the way, I will, again, we'll be there day one. But it is like, where...

2:45:56David Sims:It's not even... The announcement of next Christmas, Robert Eggers, fast tracking, focus features, Volfs with a V. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was just like, my guy, don't play into the bed. I know.

2:46:08Griffin Newman:But that's all he wants to do. You're cruising for a bruising gear. I want to make a movie about like the black experience at the sort of Harlem Renaissance. People would be like, you don't want to do like werewolves maybe in like Eastern Europe?

2:46:19David Sims:I do think sometimes though, those kinds of guys got to fucking whiff that hard, do something they shouldn't do so that when they go back to werewolves, people are like, thank you. Maybe the producer advice is like, hey, keep that in your pocket.

2:46:33Griffin Newman:Do something weird. You want people asking for it rather than being like this shit again. and I love I love Eggers and my favorite but my favorite part is like I wanted to just stay in the market that Holt is running through to get to work like like he is so good

2:46:52David Sims:at making these worlds real it's like the Coens in that same way where they're just like fuck I'm thinking about this guy in the background yeah dude the Roma shit what's his life like the inn and they're dancing and all that shit like oh that stuff is and the rest of the movies are great too and you know But God damn, he is so good at the world, man. Yes. He's so good. Yeah, no, that's... In a way that he might be one of the only guys that's better than the Coens at it. They're in the same zone. The Coens are better at the little characters being more fleshed out. But the actual setting and the design and all that kind of shit, I think he's better.

2:47:27David Sims:Well, he's also... I mean, his whole thing is just like obsessive research. Which is awesome. That's my favorite, you know. Like even... Sometimes I want a little more action, a little more meat from his shit. but man, the worlds are so good.

2:47:40Griffin Newman:Nustradu for me, I genuinely enjoyed, but the castle stuff, Hult going to the castle and getting fucked with, the weird villagers, the actual look of, all that shit, I was just like, this rocks. Once he went back and he was like, there's a vampire coming, I was like, that's fine, but I really just liked him going to see Count Orlok. Yeah, that was fucking awesome. And then them having dinner and Orlok being like, that picture is so beautiful, your wife, you know, all that shit. And you know the thing about that, your wife's pussy. Did your wife bring any pussy hair for me?

2:48:12David Sims:She kind of does, right? Yeah. Just walk in on your fucking dead wife entangled in fucking Nosferatu's dead body. They died fucking. Everyone's like, turbo cocked.

2:48:23Griffin Newman:Yeah. Good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I guess we dealt with that. We need them together.

2:48:28David Sims:Right.

2:48:31Griffin Newman:All right. Come on. Let's wrap this up, man.

2:48:33David Sims:You know the thing about Graff Overlock, though. What's up? He loves. to pull the cork. Yeah, it's blood in there, though. Yeah. Blood's the thing. On top of pull the cork, another thing I love is any time you watch an old-timey movie where characters talk about drink. Singular. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right, right, right. You've resorted to drink. He's addicted to drink. I mean, there was no water. Yeah. You kind of had to just drink really shitty fucking watered down beer and whiskey. But it's never drinking. It's not he drinks a lot. He's a man of drink. he drinks yeah he's a man of drink absolutely Stamphi thank you for being here guys thank you so much yeah truly a pleasure this was so fun I love the show I discovered it very absurd I discovered it in a bad time and I always that's when people find blank yeah yeah I was at my absolute lowest I had gone through every other possible podcast it was the NBA off season there was nothing there were no pods to listen to right Zach Lowe's out take a break yeah yeah I think Hattie started listening the second they took her arm off

2:49:34Griffin Newman:that's how she got so miserable wait I actually do you want to know right what were like how did you find this i know i literally was just like uh at a point where i had been it was like i had worked so hard for so long and i had gotten so like fat and addicted to drugs and i needed to go dry out in baltimore and i truly was i couldn't be with my own thoughts and i also am like in the last couple years i've really i've always been kind of a movie fan whatever obviously like being a little kid and my we would go to the library and get movies that way But, you know, my family was, you know, we're Greek and all the media we consumed was not, we were never huge movie people.

2:50:12And, you know, I'm trying to get into it more and more. And so, yeah, that summer I was like, I have to lose weight. I don't want to be with my thoughts. I want to also maybe act a little bit. I want to learn how movies are made, whatever. I started, I would watch any, I would listen to like movie pods and you kind of, there's not that many of them. And then I just found, I was just looking up. That's how we get there, baby. Even though we have like afterwards, it's like, it's clear we have so many mutual friends and it's kind of weird. There was never an intersection before that. And we were both kind of in that weird 2016, like we started Comptown, the Doughboys.

2:50:48There's a weird 2016 wave of podcasts.

2:50:51Griffin Newman:It's like the second wave where we were all kind of like, I mean, there's a lot of podcasts. This won't work. Comedy Bang Bang and Marin already exists. It's like there's eight podcasts. This American Life, Comedy Bang Bang and Marin. Nobody else. There's no room for anyone else. We're all done. Yeah. And so, but for whatever reason, and I found it and I just fucking, yeah, I love the show and any, you know, it also kind of, the way you guys go about it with the actual directors is really fucking cool. So yeah, huge fan. This was so fun.

2:51:16David Sims:We were talking about how much we love you and how great you were on Doughboys. And then I was doing the Doughboys live show in DC. And you were in the lobby of the hotel and you were like, I saw the show was happening. I was visiting my parents. I'll just come by. And we ended up hanging out for the night with my father as well. Your dad's the man, by the way. Who was in town for a funeral. Yeah. And immediately was like, this guy's the best. Who is this guy? Oh, man. You are a Pete face.

2:51:39Griffin Newman:Like, you're the kind of guy, Pete. No, no, for sure.

2:51:42David Sims:Truly calls you his hero now. But you immediately said, I'm a fan of the podcast. And I was like, that's crazy. We'd have you on any time. And I said, we're doing Coen's. And you grabbed me by the shoulders. And I've been watching all of them on the bus. I'm so ready to go. I had just watched. Yeah, we just watched No Country. We had just watched the one Miller's Crossing. Yeah. Which, huge favorite. you know you got I understand you got somebody with a similar who's a similar a big deal in the movie world as I am kind of someone right around the same hopefully that episode has happened yeah hopefully it's happened yeah but no I I love the cohen so much and you know and this was so this was so fun you gotta come back I'd love to anytime you're the best you're a new yorker right yeah I'm here baby yeah I also say this too I feel like yeah hell yeah I keep I've heard several stories of very successful stand-ups and people like you who have huge followings right who get offered like small parts in good movies with good directors and are like why the fuck would I do that I'd make more money on the road without question exactly but talking to you at the bar after the Doughboys show you're just sort of like why isn't ever my position wanting to do this why wouldn't you want to be a guy who can pop up for a week and be part of a fucking great movie and work with great people and I love that you're entering that stage of your career and I like watching all these Coen movies I'm like you're the kind of guy.

2:53:03Pulido is who I want to be. Like when I see him pop up, I'm like, that's the, let me be that guy. I think you're on the runway. Thanks, man. Yeah, I mean, by the time this airs, I'll have been panned and bagoned. I haven't seen it. I haven't seen it. So I am so worried I've done shit in the movie. This is so good. Who is this fucking? But you were telling me that you went to your reps and you were like,

2:53:24David Sims:is it crazy that I think I could be good at doing a couple scenes in a drama? I think I could, yeah. Like, can you position me for this? which I think people in your position today are not doing. That's my whole, like, it's crazy to have gotten this movie. And I don't know, maybe my great-grandfather owed Yorgo's great-grandfather a goat or something. And that's the real story. He's just like, some villager debts have been cleared this way. But I thought if I'm lucky in 10 years, maybe I get to be, you know, a guy who has a very memorable scene in a diner in a PTA movie. That's the absolute goal.

2:53:58that's the absolute dream of what I want to go to and so I hope I didn't blow it and uh somebody else has let me in a movie that I don't know if that's out you know I don't know if that but it's really cool yeah and yeah I love because yeah dude you grow the first your first and even through comedy your first my first exposure to comedy is comedy is John Candy's is you know Chris Farley movies Eddie Murphy it's just like and then you grow up loving Sandler and then you basically

2:54:26David Sims:reverse engineer how did these people get there like for me like discovering stand-up and sketch and all these things was being like so where does this guy come where this guy come why they just let this guy be in movies yeah yeah yeah right you're like he was in dirty dirty clubs for 10 years absolutely so yeah it's funny it's it's i still don't i don't understand how any part of my career has happened and this the least of all it's like stand up it's like all right you just fucking you eat enough shit and there's only there's only like a hundred people who are this suicidal and have decided they're willing to sacrifice everything that they'll just work clubs or, you know, do nothing else.

2:55:02Like you should just go get a regular job instead of do standup. It's a horrible lifestyle. Oh, we're broken people. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But acting is, I don't understand how it's happening, but yeah, please, hopefully I didn't blow it in Begonia. And I would love to just be, and the Coens are the exact type of, I mean, there's so many dream

2:55:20David Sims:You need them to reunite just in time to ask for who's the Polito of this generation. Dude, that's all I want, dude. I can play bullies or cucks. That's kind of my zone.

2:55:36Griffin Newman:This is going to sound rude, but it's not. You do have the vibe with something Yorgos just dreamed up. You know what I mean? Yorgos is like, I'm going to write down another weirdo. and it's like he's just imagining you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I'm definitely a, I was toothless for a while and that's when I was sure my acting career was going to take off. I was like, I'm a fat, weird, toothless guy. It was a distant look. Throw me in there, but you know, whatever. I appreciate it, guys. Get your teeth fixed is an important part of becoming a movie star. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I don't know when this comes out, but I think.

2:56:09It's in October, right when the movie's coming out. Perfect. October 19th. So I'm also going to be in Austin, Texas and I'm going to be in Boston at the will austin i'm going to be in november and boston i'm going to be in december uh so yeah come see me i'm also still working on a on a special that i'm oh actually i got a lot of stuff coming up actually i'm going to be in fucking memphis huntsville chattanooga knoxville asheville greensboro wilmington myrtle beach tour yeah yeah i did a bus tour this year and i'm doing a minivan tour yeah i was like i did a really prestigious like bus theater tour did the Chicago theater, 3 ,000 people.

2:56:48Now I'm like, give me the fucking comedy cabana in Myrtle Beach. Let's get back to our roots. You're doing a little red wagon tour. Dude, it's going to be, yeah, literally. Dude, I'm basically going to be in a fucking minivan. I'm betting money it's going to be a Chrysler Pacifica throughout the southeast. And then Austin, Texas on the 22nd. Boston on the December 12th and 13th. But yeah, come see me do stand-up, watch a movie. I have a If you guys have big movie fans, obviously, I made an indie movie called Let's Start a Cult. It's on Hulu. You can watch it there. So yeah, that's where you can find me.

2:57:25Thanks, guys. You're the best, and we look forward to having you on again. Absolutely. Yeah, come back. Come do Stavi's World anytime, boys. We got to shout out Eldis. Eldis, yeah. You guys are in a fraternity of elite producers with Ben and Eldis. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. You guys, please, come do the pod. We're going to be moving into Manhattan, I think, soon. That's fine.

2:57:47Griffin Newman:I'll go to the big city. Come to the big apple.

2:57:50David Sims:Thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate, review, and subscribe. Tune in next week for Inside Llewyn Davis.

2:57:56Griffin Newman:Correct? Nope. Next week, I guess we're covering A House of Dynamite.

2:58:00David Sims:The new Catherine Bigelow movie about nukes. At the time we're recording this, we think Catherine Bigelow's Netflix movie is coming at around this time. And if not, we'll have changed this and we won't be listening to this. And as always, time comes for us all.

2:58:19Griffin Newman:Blank Check with Griffin and David is hosted by Griffin Newman and David Sims. Our executive producer is me, Ben Hosley. Our creative producer is Marie Barty Salinas. And our associate producer is AJ McKeon. This show is mixed and edited by AJ McKeon and Alan Smithy. Research by J.J. Birch. Our theme song is by Lane Montgomery and the Great American Novel. With additional music by Alex Mitchell. Artwork by Joe Bowen, Ollie Moss, and Pat Reynolds. Our production assistant is Minnick. Special thanks to David Cho, Jordan Fish, and Nate Patterson for their production help. Head over to BlankCheckPod.com for links to all of the real nerdy shit.

2:58:58Griffin Newman:Join our Patreon, Blank Check Special Features, for exclusive franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. Follow us on social at BlankCheckPod. Subscribe to our weekly newsletter, Checkbook, on Substack. This podcast is created and produced by Blank Check Productions.