Who's That Knocking at My Door / Boxcar Bertha

10:25David Sims:this movie does have a lot of trains in it it's fair to assume that David's pants were around his ankles

10:29Griffin Newman:now I said to my wife this is kind of the last one I'm going to watch during this that's like arguably bad and I don't even think Boxcar Bertha is like a you know you're more negative on it than I am but I'm not like this is the last one where I think it's in my opinion you can kind of be like that movie just you know didn't work or is bad you could if you're saying that about the other ones I mean of course you can say like I don't like New York New York you know I get that like I'm not complaining right but it's like the rest are

11:02David Sims:interesting to masterpiece. I would say you basically have three types of movies for the rest of his career. You have masterpieces. You have movies that just work to some degree.

11:13Griffin Newman:Masterpieces. Right? Yes. Then you have highly regarded films.

11:17David Sims:Really interesting, risky, personal swings. You have something that might not quite hit, but it's something that's coming out of his soul, right? And is a very genuine effort and doing something very artistically daring. And then the third thing is what for most people would be a kind of strategic career move movie, a paycheck gig, you know, a favor gig. But all of those movies, I would argue, are defined by the fact that Martin Scorsese chose to make them. It's not just, well, he did this to get back in good graces. All of those movies become defined not just by the idea that he made it, but what he contributed to that movie.

11:56David Sims:Anything that would be impersonal ends up becoming very personal through him. Boxcar Bertha is the last impersonal movie he makes. Who's That Knocking at My Door is him making a deeply personal movie before he's figured out how to make an engaging film.

12:11Griffin Newman:Right. An entertaining movie. Right, where he's just getting his hands on the toolbox.

12:16David Sims:Right, and Boxcar Bertha's got pretty good craft in it, but you feel that he doesn't have anything on the line. He's not putting himself in it in the same way. and from next week on that's not the case would you agree? I would agree except I think Goodfellas sucks yes well of course that's our take that we're working towards yeah our Goodfellas episode is five minutes

12:37Griffin Newman:of us going Goodfellas sucks Raging Bull basic what if we put him on the bracket yeah encouraged like yeah yeah no of course we're excited to do Scorsese that we do and we're like oh by the way we think he stinks we all agree this guy's a fucking phone every episode is us like another stinker What a jamook. F. Yeah. Also, I don't like his personality. I don't find him charming at all. Yeah, and why are you so short, Marty? You even make me look tall. Oh, no, no. My contrarian take would be like, I actually think he's too tall. Yeah. He should shorten up. Yeah, hunch up, Marty. Right. His eyebrows should be...

13:16Griffin Newman:He should talk faster. Stop snipping them brows, Marty. I think there should be less women in these movies. All right. Okay, I'm kidding. I'm kidding.

13:28David Sims:Marty, bigger glasses, please. I can barely spot them on your face.

13:32Griffin Newman:The glasses should touch your cheeks. That's how big they are.

13:35David Sims:Ah, this guy, he drolls on and on. Can't you speed up the conversation a bit, Marty? Get to the point faster and use your hands to express yourself. This fucking loser. are. Today we're talking about who's that knocking at my door, Boxcar Bertha. Martin Scorsese. JJ forgot to prepare a dossier for this one.

13:55Griffin Newman:No, he worked really, really hard to get it

13:57David Sims:to us in time. Lack of interest, he said. Also, there's just not any information out there about this guy. I think we are the first podcast to talk about Martin Scorsese.

14:07Griffin Newman:What's the first Marty movie you guys all saw before I start this? Oh, wow. First one I saw in theaters must have been Gangs of New York. Same, and I'm wondering if that... In theaters or just saw, period. Or we can answer both. You can answer both. Because for me, I know theater is the answer is Gangs of New York. Same, and I'm wondering if that was the first one I saw, period. I had definitely already seen Taxi Driver by then because I was such a normal and well-adjusted kid. But I'm trying to think if I would have seen much else. Like, I don't think I had seen... I know, but I'd seen Goodfellas.

14:37Griffin Newman:I definitely saw Goodfellas when I was like an early teenager. Yeah. I guess that would be it. Yeah, no.

14:42David Sims:I think that was the first one I saw saw because I understood the weight and importance with which that movie was being presented. And I knew Martin Scorsese by reputation as this is the guy everyone uses as shorthand for infamous filmmaker, serious filmmaker. But I think I saw it and then said to my mom, like, so where does that rank? Now, as a kid growing up in North Jersey. Oh, yes. This might surprise you that the first film with Marty Scorsese that I ever saw. It's good, Phyllis. Yeah. Now, Ben, we were talking about this the other night. You were saying you have a bit of an interesting relationship to Martin Scorsese and his films across your life, but that there's an interesting opportunity there's potential in this series.

15:33David Sims:Do you want me to say it? Remind me. You were saying that you grew up with the most annoying people on Earth. Yes, yes, yes. obsessively watching his most popular films and taking all the wrong lessons from them and reading them in the dumbest, most superficial way possible. 100%. And that it did not cause you to resent those movies, but it did cause you to kind of push away from them. Definitely. To kind of reject him. A protective... And not in the way that I think he's... Obviously, it would be crazy to think he's a hack, but it's just... You know what? You thought he was a loser. I thought he was a freaking loser.

16:09Now it's kind of the same way with Bruce Springsteen for me Where it's like obviously The guy's an incredible songwriter You know put out incredible albums But it just was so jammed down my throat I was like I can't I can't engage with it

16:26Griffin Newman:I understand that New Jersey has A couple of Italian residents Scorsese is not a Jersey guy He's not So it's a little bit of like the classic Jersey thing like yeah but he's making movies about us mooks so you know they weren't owning him but they were loving his work

16:43David Sims:it's like the Pope Frank Sinatra and Scorsese but I mean like with Springsteen

16:47Griffin Newman:at least it's like that guy is Jersey he's from there and Ben

16:51David Sims:I don't know if you know this but you know how most of us we grow up in our childhood bedrooms we have floor yes you can stand on it right Bruce didn't have that fuck there was a hole in the floor of his childhood bedroom not right the thing we stand on that we rely on he didn't have that For me, it was about not fitting in with the community where I grew up. So I felt like I needed to differentiate myself from the pack. And so I was drawn to outsiders, artists, musicians, filmmakers that felt worlds away than the culture that the people around me engaged in.

17:48David!

17:49David Sims:Yes? Bark, bark. Bark, bark. What's going on? It's the dog days of summer. Augie, dogie. August. Okay. It's the perfect time to hit reset before the autumn rush begins. And honestly, I'm stroking my chin here, and I can't think of a better place to start than my closet.

18:08Griffin Newman:Uh-huh.

18:08David Sims:That's where I want to reset. That's why I love shopping at Quince.

18:12Griffin Newman:Yeah, because they're about fewer better pieces. Their clothes are made with premium materials, and they're built to last, designed to ones you reach for day after day. So you don't need to overstuff your closet. I hate overstuffing my closet.

18:23David Sims:I think that's a fair thing. If you're still hanging on to the same worn out basics, and that's me, I'm loathe to reset and restart. Ben's now eyeballing my wardrobe. He's looking me up and down. These are some newer pieces from Quince because Quince makes it easy to upgrade, which I need the encouragement to do. They have premium denim and tailored chinos from just$60 with the kind of perfect fit structure and high quality fabrics you'd expect from a luxury designer brand.

18:52Griffin Newman:Yep. I mean, I truly love Quince. You truly love them. You marry them. I've got like 15 polo shirts from them. Upgrade your everyday. Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers or go to quince.com slash check. Get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns now available in Canada and the UK too. That's quince.com slash check.

19:20David Sims:David, crack open that dossier, please. Martin Charles Scorsese,

19:24Griffin Newman:the great American filmmaker,

19:26David Sims:was born... Well, excuse me. We don't pay JJ to editorialize. We will decide whether or not he's a great American filmmaker. Don't tell us that. Don't shove that down our throats.

19:34Griffin Newman:Was born November 17th, 1942, in Flushing, Queens. Did you know that? I knew he was a Queens boy. Parents are Charles and Catherine Scorsese, the children of Sicilian immigrants so they are the first generation born here Marty's the second both of Marty's parents were born on Elizabeth Street in the Lower East Side of Manhattan Charles worked in shipyards and then pressed clothes I think they both worked in the garment district for a long time Marty has an older brother named Frank you may have heard this before Griffin but Marty had a bit of a bad pair of lungs he caught an illness when he was a tiny baby, probably pertussis, like whooping cough or something.

20:19Griffin Newman:You know, like there was an epidemic. A nice doctor, supposedly, sort of, you know, saved his life when he was a tiny baby, but he thinks it basically like allergies, asthma, trouble breathing. Barely made it out of infancy. But then it's like his whole childhood, he's got like a bad set of luck. You know, like he's a little, you know, whatever. He's a little fragile.

20:42David Sims:Still to this day, it affects, I'm sure, the way he was raised. You know, if you come that close to losing a child that early on, your parents are going to do everything they can to really try to keep you safe. And that fragility, I think, gets into the head of the child.

21:00Griffin Newman:The great documentary that Rebecca Miller did last year, is it called Mr. Scorsese? I already forgot. Yeah, Mr. Scorsese. That was on Apple TV. Talks about this. He talks about it in the Richard Schickel book, Conversations with Scorsese, which J.G. wanted me to shout out because he's using it a lot for this stuff. and also, I should shout it out anyway, because I've read it. It is fantastic. It is one of the great, like, critic-director discourse, you know, works ever. But, like, he grew up in Corona in Queens. Like, you know, back then, obviously, that part of Queens, I think, was very heavily Italian.

21:31David Sims:And it's more suburban.

21:33Griffin Newman:It's suburban. Like, there's no big buildings there, and it's not, like, cramped like Lower Manhattan was. It's like front yards and, yeah. Two-family house. They had a yard. They had a little tree. And they were forced to move back. because Charles got in an argument. Move back to the Lower East Side. Move back to Little Italy. Because Charles got in an argument with the landlord. And I feel like in the documentary, Scorsese talks about like, you know, it was the classic kind of like, you know, was there maybe something shifty or was it just like, you know, ego bravado kind of stuff, right? Impossible to say, but something...

22:07Griffin Newman:Face could not be saved. Yes. Right. And he talks about it as being like cast out of paradise.

22:12David Sims:Yes, paradise lost. that he was taken out of a place he remembers feeling safe and comfortable and thrown into what felt like an unstable, scary environment.

22:21Griffin Newman:And it's a humiliation. They're moving back to essentially a tenement, this tiny two-room apartment on 253 Elizabeth. Now, of course, you would have to be in charge of some sort of oil or aluminum deposit to afford an apartment on 253 Elizabeth. You're like a creative director. I mean, I guess you could probably buy like a studio apartment for like$900 ,000 that has like a toilet in the middle of the room. I was going to say, the walls are made of toilets

22:50David Sims:that don't work but have unflushed shit in them. You could maybe get the room that's portrayed in Who's Knocking at My Door? That's just the fuck room. Yeah.

22:59Griffin Newman:Yeah, right. Exactly. Like for, for, again, it's still a very large amount of money. But also you got to live there

23:05David Sims:with the fuck room guys. The fuck room guys are still there. They can't kick them off the lease.

23:11Griffin Newman:So 253, Elizabeth. So I work... in Soho. Well, you work for Blank Check Production. That is true. But I also work for The Atlantic and I work in Soho. And Elizabeth Street between Prince and Houston is where he grew up. You know where Prince Street Pizza is? Of course. All the tourists love to go there now. Around the corner. Square slices, they say. We're talking around the corner from there. Yeah. Anyway. So his dad wasn't in the mob, but like definitely knew plenty of people who were and I feel like was sort of like often mixed up in the local kind of scenery.

23:46David Sims:It's hard not to be at that time entwined in these things. And even if you're trying to distance yourself away from them, there's a what do you think you're better than me kind of thing. I mean, it's part of what's interesting about the sort of mystery of them losing the house in Corona, where you're like, was he too close or was he too far from these things?

24:06Griffin Newman:He tells this story about like the landlord maybe thought that the dad was a little too mobbed up and there was like a fight. Someone picked up an axe. The landlord picked up an axe at some point. The dad is like this intense guy, according to Marty. And I feel like, you know, his parents are so present in his early work, right? Like he does Italian American, the documentary about them. They look so much like him. They do. They look like him in old age makeup. Right, like, yes. And his mother is just this like incredibly warm and interesting figure. Yes. His dad is definitely a little more unknowable.

24:38Griffin Newman:Like, or like, you know, firm kind of like soft-spoken, right. anyway, seven people living in three rooms. Then they got some rooms down like in two. The first they were like 240. I don't know. He talks about all this, you know, like I, we don't need to go through every single apartment that he lived in. Has JJ included Zillow listing? Well, I can look him up again. I bet you these days, pretty penny price. Lower East Side was pretty rough. As he says, you know, kind of like the dead end kids in old movies. It's close to that kids running up and down the street. You had a garbage can. You would get a piece of wood.

25:10Griffin Newman:Now you got a sword and a shield. You play around.

25:13David Sims:But also, Marty's spending a lot of time looking out his window at kids acting up because his parents are so worried about his dang lungs. He talks about their being unknowingly trained into the act of being an observer, of being the watcher, of looking at everything through this frame, and also just like doodling a lot, drawing what he sees, the things he can't engage in, the roughhousing.

25:38Griffin Newman:Again, you can see in the Scorsese doc the storyboards he made. They are insane. And it's crazy. Yes. It's not like, oh yeah, some stick figures and you can see that this guy has like a visual sense. It's like these very, very complex, beautiful like drawings of like stories he's imagining and movies he wants to make or whatever.

25:54David Sims:I think it was Rebecca Miller being interviewed by her buddy, Sean Fennessey on The Big Picture. But she was saying like, you know, I have a difficult relationship with the idea of genius and I question the label. But when he showed me his storyboards as a child, I was like, this is a level of genius we're dealing with. it also takes effort and it takes craft and it takes intelligence. It's not like people are just gifted, but you look at the storyboards he was doing when he was like 12 and he's like drawing out full color Roman epic sequences. Yes, yeah, right. There's a lot of Roman stuff. Right, he was like obsessed with, right, those kind of epics.

26:29David Sims:Oh my gosh, this is really impressive. Because it's not only is like his technical kind of mastery of illustration so strong, but you're like, he immediately just kind of got composition he understood camera movements he understood visual storytelling and he's not just like drawing a comic book he's specifically like drawing out a movie to some degree this guy just like completely absorbed and understood this language and was able to spit it back out perfectly

26:58Griffin Newman:so Martin Scorsese you know hangs out with the kids there's the rough kids but he is often the kid with his back against the wall trying not to get too much in the fight Little Lily back then is for real Little Italy basically like housed in down to Canal, Elizabeth over to like Mulberry, but like...

27:14David Sims:Five foot six or under. Yeah. Sicilian.

27:19Griffin Newman:The way he puts it, Elizabeth Street was mainly Sicilian. That's interesting to me. I wonder if it really did work that way where it's... Because Little Italy is essentially three streets. It's Mott, Mulberry, and Elizabeth, which are like... It's now you call... I mean, Little Italy barely exists and you call some of it Nolita, which is a made up term. It's offensive. It is so offensive. Yeah, it sucks. But like, you know, architecturally and culturally now, it's all kind of one thing, but imagine like just the like ultra parochialism of like, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, the Northern Italians, they were, and then the Neapolitans, they're on Mott, the Sicilians, we're on Elizabeth, I mean like, That's what Kings of New York is about,

27:55David Sims:and that was what New York, Well, but Kings of New York is a hundred years prior. No, I know, but my point, if you let me finish my sentence, is that New York was like that for well over a century. I think a little bit. People would immigrate, and then they'd just be like, this is our block. Yes, a little bit. You know, families would sort of mount and there was this sense of this weird, like, we know this is the great American melting pot, but there's also a sort of baked in defensive tribalism of like, this is where we come from and this is our family. I think that continues, though. I think it's a little more immigrant groups.

28:26Griffin Newman:But the block by block thing is what fascinates me. I think there's a little less of that now because there's less tenements. It used to also be like a fucking

28:33David Sims:stronghold. It was like the neighborhoods were really sectioned off.

28:36Griffin Newman:No, but I mean, like when I worked as a labor reporter. You would, I would, you know, that's where I was sort of like, all right, the Guyanese community is like, you know, this little pocket here in Ozone Park or whatever, you know, like you would find, yes. It's all so fascinating to me. I'm a geography nerd. I'm a New York nerd. I love all this stuff. But mostly he would live in Little Italy, but he does say sometimes you go to Staten Island or Queens see other Italian community people. Sometimes you go to 42nd Street, catch a picture. A picture. You go to the picture houses.

29:01David Sims:Oh, I like the sound.

29:03Griffin Newman:So, I don't know if you guys know this, but Martin Scorsese likes movies. He does.

29:08David Sims:This is going to be a recurring thing we discuss on this miniseries about the films of Martin Scorsese. How much he likes films.

29:15Griffin Newman:Movies. He says around the age of three, his asthma is not great and his father would just take him to see lots and lots of movies. His father liked movies. His father had been a film buff in the 30s. So he's passing it down. The first image he remembers seeing, a true color trailer for a Roy Rogers movie in which he was wearing fringes and jumped from a tree onto his horse. His father says, do you know who Trigger is? And he went like, Scorsese goes like this. It's by the trigger finger. And he's like, no, it's the horse's name.

29:44David Sims:And I'll take you to see it next week. Do you know how much that horse makes? He's got a studio contract. He gets a bucket of apples every day. And then he gets 10 % of the apples they bring in at the box office.

29:56Griffin Newman:I'll read some of this quote that JJ says is important, but it's like half of it. It's like so long. So I was made to think I couldn't do anything physical. I had to be very careful and was sort of coddled in a way. So the ritual going to the movies with your father, it didn't matter what film you saw, it became important to me. It was a matter of going to Lowe's Commodore on 6th Street and 2nd Avenue, which is now part of New York University, the Fillmore East, but in between those two. The Academy of Music, which is gone now on 14th Street. We were always walking into the middle of a film. There was a sense of peace there, too.

30:24Griffin Newman:There really was. You had faith when you went into the church and you had faith when you went into the movie theater, too. Imagine, Griffin. That's what it should be. There should be a movie theater every 10 blocks in New York City, Griffin, and it should be playing movies all the time and you just walk in.

30:38David Sims:I agree.

30:39Griffin Newman:Walk in in the middle of fucking what's out right now. Project Hail Mary.

30:44David Sims:Yeah, there we go. It is funny for how much Martin Scorsese now represents the sanctity of cinema and the purity of it. He talks about that every time he fucking walked into a movie theater it was like an insane asylum. He was like in those days. It's just a bunch of latchkey kids. Especially if it's like a kid thing. Right. But he's just like People just walk in and out at random moments. It's basically running movies all day, and you have shorts and newsreels and whatever. And so people just buy a ticket, show up whenever, sit down for five hours, leave at any point. People are screaming and throwing popcorn.

31:21David Sims:There's the moment in matinee I love so much, the Joe Dante movie, where you see them go into the movie palace for the first time, and they open the doors, and it's just mayhem. It's like Ultimont. I also, just to your point, I want to throw out, I imported this lovely Blu-ray box set from the fine folks at Imprint in Australia, Martin Scorsese Films of Faith, which is Last Temptation, Kundun and Silence put together. But I found it very funny just how blunt this is. On the back of the box, it has an image from Kundun and then a quote from Martin Scorsese. My whole life has been movies and religion.

31:56David Sims:That's it. Nothing else. I mean, I think he eats a meal once in a while. According to him, he eats faith and he watches movies.

32:05Griffin Newman:I know very reliably that he loves the dumplings at the town downtown. So some of the early movies, Bad and the Beautiful, first movie he sees about the process of filmmaking. He loved Westerns. Day the Earth Stood Still, the sci-fi film, one of his first great theater experiences at the Academy of Music, a couple thousand people reacting to it. The Howard Hawks thing, that was an amazing experience. The shock, the humor, the overlapping dialogue. The monster, 2 ,000 people jumping at once. What an amazing experience. Now, his mother is responsible for one of his formative memories. She takes him to see Duel in the Sun, which had been condemned by the church.

32:41Griffin Newman:That's a King Vidor movie. I don't remember why they condemned it, but who knows? They were condemning everything back then. Because you're supposed to duel under the moon, of course. And it was too scary for him. I mean, that's a 46 movie. He must have been... He was like four years old. What's she doing? This is what I'm saying. People would just bring a baby into the theater. I know, I know. He couldn't watch the end. It was also frightening, you know, and my mother kept yelling, look at it, you took me here to see it, now watch it! So I guess even at four, he's like marching up to his mother

33:13David Sims:and being like, I want to see Duel in the Sun! I love movies. I'm sorry, brief side tangent, Ben, I have some terrible news. I hadn't even told you this, but I just got a text that we had a cancellation for an upcoming George Lucas talk show date. We were going to have Doug Bradley as a guest, Pinhead himself. Love Pinhead. And I was planning to get him to sign your lament configuration box and bring it back here. Apparently, Pinhead booked a movie. Damn it.

33:40Griffin Newman:Well, you know what? But it's good that he's getting work. Good job, Pinhead. The whole fucking thing that rocks about him is he's a Scouser. He's from Liverpool. Yeah. And like, when you hear him in like a podcast where he's like, you know, he has a Scouse accent and like the idea of like, oh, I would, I would, I would get in trouble. I can try. I'll try. but like the idea of Pinhead being Scouse is just really funny. Anyway, 1948, Scorsese gets a television set. One of the first families on that block, a 16-inch RCA Victor. So now he starts seeing even more movies. Perfect. This was the problem.

34:18Griffin Newman:Old movies, I guess. Like, I mean, whatever on television. I think they show a lot of British cinema. He says like Alexander Korda, Thief of Baghdad, you know, And then some Italian film. On Friday nights, they would show things like Bicycle Thieves or Rome Open City, like these, you know, more challenging, near-realist Italian films.

34:35David Sims:I feel like filmmakers of his generation, this has come up in other series, talk about this, that also, you know, far fewer channels, very few, but movies would replay.

34:46Griffin Newman:Of course. Right. He says...

34:47David Sims:A lot of these guys are studying one movie for like four weeks as a child. That's the thing.

34:51Griffin Newman:He says Million Dollar Movie, which was like a program in the 50s, would just show the same film. like five times a week and he would just watch it again and again. It would be the movie of the week. And his mother would be like, turn it off. And I'd be like, no. Tales of Hoffman, the Powell Pressburger film, which is so beautiful. One of the most beautiful movies ever made. Now, of course, he saw it in black and white on a 16-inch RCA Victor TV with commercial breaks. And it still mesmerized him. But obviously, like a lot, Powell and Pressburger is maybe the one single most obvious influence visually on the work of Martin Scorsese.

35:27Griffin Newman:Like, you know, like, obviously, there's a million other things in the soup there. But like, you watch New York, New York, you're like, he's trying to make a Powell and Pressburger, like, style. Like, he's making the test.

35:35David Sims:Yeah, just the use of color throughout his movies and how important he talks about color being and how he conceives of things comes from them in so many ways. One of our favorite filmmakers, filmmaking teams ever. A series we're always threatening to do. Yeah, we'll do them.

35:50Griffin Newman:Right now, actually. Series canceled. Marty, hit the bricks. he didn't see Citizen Kane until he was 14 or 15 fake fan gotta get those letterboxd stats up Marty basic ass taste he remembers seeing it at the Talia Theater I think on 96th Street along with John Ford's The Informer not a good movie look he likes a lot of movies also he draws those storyboards as we know So we referenced that already. He was very obsessed with biblical epics, war movies. But his father is not seeing this and going, ah, an artistic streak. Perhaps I should foster this. I'm so excited. We have a picture maker in the house.

36:39Griffin Newman:This is embarrassing. I'm throwing these away.

36:42David Sims:The fuck is this? Who do you think you are? Martin Scorsese? It is funny to just be the guy that gets used as shorthand for poor, great director for decades. And his parents were like,

36:57Griffin Newman:you're no Marty Scorsese, Marty Scorsese.

37:00David Sims:Imagine his dad being like, Martin Scorsese, what will you ever have to say about movies?

37:06Griffin Newman:No one cares. So I guess his parents are not deeply religious, he says, but he lives in Little Italy, and so he gets sent to Catholic school. He went to St. Patrick's Elementary, which used to be, it existed until, I think I looked it up recently, like until 20... 15 maybe, but like it's so this is what I want to talk about. All right. So I don't know if you guys know this, but there's St. Patrick's Old Cathedral. New York has St. Patrick's Cathedral. Like the big ass fuck off cathedral that's up, you know, midtown, right? Exactly. But that was the second St. Patrick's Cathedral, guys. The first St.

37:42Griffin Newman:Patrick's Cathedral is in Little Italy. It's on Prince between Mott and Mulberry. Is this the thing you said you had to reveal in this episode? David said he was sitting on a hot scoop. Yes. And you guys have definitely seen this. You know, maybe you haven't been in the church, but it's right there. Yeah. You know, in the middle of Soho, you're like, whoa, there's a big old church. It very much sticks out. It's a very old church. Like it was built, I mean, by American standards, not by European standards. By European standards, it's like a 12-year-old. But, you know, it's like 250 years old or whatever.

38:12Griffin Newman:Yeah, impressive. Yeah. It's called now St. Patrick's Old Cathedral, which is a little rude, I think. it's a technically St. Patrick's Basilica but you know that's Pope language let's see when was it built 1815 so yeah you know it's just so funny because of the neighborhood where it's like you pass a love a right you're like yes where can I buy a belt for $800 and it's like yes but once this was like the seat of you know working class Catholic power so it's like so there used to be a school across the street. Now it's condos, but on Prince Street was the Catholic school across the street. That's where he went.

38:52Griffin Newman:He was an altar boy at St. Patrick's Cathedral. Okay. Where are we going with this, David? You said this was exciting. And we all know that always works out for everyone just fine. I was getting so worried. I, the other day, toured St. Patrick's Old Cathedral. You can tour it. There's catacombs underneath. Cool. And you can tour them. Bones? Now. on this tour guide, which was with my friend Blythe. My friend Blythe was like, hey, you want to get dinner or drink? And I'm like, oh, sure. And she's like, or we could do something cool. And I'm like, what's cool? I'm trying to do fun New York experience.

39:31Griffin Newman:Catacombs much? And she was like, catacombs? And I'm like, there are catacombs? We go on this tour. First, we go around the graveyard. There's an ancient graveyard there, again, by American standards, like hundreds of years old. Very cool. Our tour guide was... Because imagine like sort of an Irish guy from Brooklyn. Can you imagine this? No, no, no. Not an Irish guy from Ireland. Little, little. Hey, I don't know what you're talking about, but, you know, that kind of guy. Right. And at one point he's like, who is toward like catacombs in Europe? And I'm like, I've, you know, I've been to like the ones in Paris.

40:06Griffin Newman:Right. With the bones. Yeah. And he's like, all right. All right. So ours are air conditioned. Okay. There's no skeletons down here. What? No skeletons? I mean, there are skeletons hidden away, but, you know, there's no, like, random bones. Have you ever been... So American that there's air conditioning. It's air conditioning.

40:24David Sims:Have you ever been to the fucking Catacomb? It's still a little spooky. No, I tried going the last time I was there, and I didn't make a reservation enough out from when we were in town. It is as extreme as you would imagine it to be, where you're just like, let me go through a tunnel. Oh, it's just an endless walk lined with bones. Yeah.

40:42Griffin Newman:So cool. And the other thing with the Paris ones, especially, is you're like, right, if there was not someone with me, I would get lost immediately and die down here. It feels like a maze.

40:50David Sims:It feels like a labyrinth. It goes on forever. It's so many skulls, like so many. And they're not like behind glass. You're just walking through and being like, that skull.

41:00Griffin Newman:And they're like, don't touch the skull.

41:02David Sims:It's hundreds of years old.

41:03Griffin Newman:Anyway, and but on this tour, he was like, hey, anyone know Martin Scorsese? And I was like, yeah, I've heard, you know, yes. And he's like, he was an altar boy here. And I was like, of course he was. This was the church. This is the Little Italy Church. It's one of those New York things that you walk into this grand cathedral. I mean, look, I took a fucking picture. You know, you just can't believe that this is just sitting here

41:26David Sims:in the middle of New York because like... He'd do his prayers and then walk right across the street to Rice to Riches. Like, look at that. It's gorgeous. Yeah. It's pretty. So nice. I feel like a thing he talked about and we're getting at this.

41:38Griffin Newman:I love Catholicism, guys. What if that's my rubio?

41:41David Sims:This is now... This is a trad podcast. I'm into Catholicism in that weird J.D. Vance way. We all know Blankshack has always been a deeply spiritual podcast. I was going to say, I feel like it's a thing that came up in the Rebecca Miller doc, but comes up in a lot of his talks of just like he was a fragile boy. He was nervous, probably an extension of his physical fragility.

42:07Griffin Newman:He was in a rowdy neighborhood.

42:10David Sims:and the picture house and the church were the two places

42:15Griffin Newman:he felt safe. The calm places and the thing about the church especially is the rougher types, the mob, whatever, they're not messing with the church. No one's going to be mean to a priest. It's the one place that's basically safe. He had a very influential man named Father Principe who was like a young priest, mentor for him. Kind of a hip priest. I think so. I mean, he says like he played the guitar. Oh, did he really? Yeah, I think so. My joke's not funny. It was just accurate. he felt that the, he was a big fan of On the Waterfront, introduced Martin to, just say he loves the Karl Mulden character.

42:49Griffin Newman:Karl Mulden's so fucking good in that movie.

42:51David Sims:Karl Mulden, I'll say it, pretty good actor. The original kind of, is Karl Mulden the original Karen's boy?

42:59Griffin Newman:Definitely, because Karl Mulden's like a good looking guy, but he's got that like big nose. Huge. And like, it kind of just makes him sort of like, you know, like affable and interesting. and whatever.

43:11David Sims:But I feel like he's a definitional kind of formative archetype of the kind of guy that you and I lose our minds over. Right? I love him. Have loved for decades. My guy's got a honker. He's got a honker. It's a big boy. You really do feel like you could squeeze it and the noise would come out. And it would go, ah-oo-ga!

43:28Griffin Newman:Like those old cars. Yes. Father Principate finally saw a taxi driver and said to Marty, I've always told you, too much Good Friday, not enough Easter Sunday. And Marty's like, he nailed me. Anyway, so all very formative for him. He doesn't totally fit in. He wants to be a priest. He enrolls in seminary school, but he just can't take his study seriously enough. Like, you need to, like, fucking learn Latin and shit. And I just feel like all Marty wants to do is watch movies.

43:57David Sims:It's funny when he talks about how close he feels like he came to becoming a man of the cloth. And then you hear from, like, his family and his childhood friends. And they were like, he was never going to fucking be able to pull this off. I know he feels like he was being pulled between these things, but it was just like... It's pretty short-lived.

44:13Griffin Newman:At 14, he enrolls in a junior seminary called Cathedral College, which is on the Upper West Side. He's expelled after a year. He says he didn't have his mind on his work, and he'd fall in love with a young lady. These are not going... You will not be a priest with this kind of behavior, my friend. But thank God the cinema claimed him. As he says, he's basically like, my parents were not religious. I liked Father Principe, And I liked the neighborhood priest, kind of the neighborhood church thing. But like... This was not pushed on me. Yeah. And I probably just didn't have quite enough of the drive.

44:47Griffin Newman:So he gets kicked out of that. He goes to Cardinal Hayes, which is a high school in the Bronx. He's still thinking about maybe going to like Jesuit University of Fordham up in the Bronx. Fordham's a Catholic university. That's where his friends are. But bad grades. He was interested in English literature and read lots of books and stuff like that. But he says it wasn't easy for him to read. He says it wasn't part of our cultural makeup. But I was ready to delve further. I don't know. I just feel like he's, you know, he's not academic, right? Like, he figures this all out later. He's just not...

45:22Right, yeah. It comes from a working-class family. Yeah.

45:25Griffin Newman:Well, it's not even that. But there are a lot of working-class kids who are, you know, climbing, you know, rapidly shooting up the... You know, this is what happened in America. But he's not seeing it in his day-to-day life. That's what he says. There wasn't a culture of it in his family, right? Of like, you should read fucking Thomas Hardy and Charles Dickens or whatever. And he loved movies. Number one thing he loves is movies. Not books. He makes a short film called Vesuvius VI. An eight millimeter thing, which he shot on the roofs of Mott Street with white sheets. I'm going to guess he didn't completely recreate Mount Vesuvius.

46:05Griffin Newman:I think they show clips of this in the Rebecca Miller thing,

46:08David Sims:but it's him doing his homage to the epics.

46:10Griffin Newman:He says he basically learned some things about camera angles. You know what I mean? And then he gets a catalog from the New York University, Washington Square College. It's not even called NYU back then. And they have a department called TMR, Television Motion Pictures Radio. And he thinks, I'm going to go into radio. Just kidding. But, you know, it's in the village. It's right where he grew up. It's just, you know, one neighborhood up.

46:33David Sims:What if we found out that the great pain of Martin Scorsese's life is that he wanted to be a drive-time radio guy and he couldn't hack it?

46:42Griffin Newman:It would be so funny if he wanted to be like right on Howard Stern.

46:46David Sims:Yeah. And he's still... Do you think he's ever been on Howard Stern? I'm going to look it up. Keep digging through the dossier. I'm sure he has.

46:53Griffin Newman:So Haig Manoogian? Oh, yes. Yes. Very influential early teacher for him. Armenian American professor. He's in Who's That Knocking My Door, I think, briefly. So he shows him Lumiere movies. He shows him great train robbery, greed, maybe all the way up to early Fellini. These are the kinds of movies he's showing him. Scorsese, they had to do a report on a movie he liked. He wrote a report on The Third Man. And he gave me a B+. Plus, because he said, remember, this is only a thriller. We were opposite ends of the pole in a way. He preferred like Open City, I liked everything. And this is important to Marty and all the new Brats, I feel like.

47:36Griffin Newman:The movie Brats are like, we love Westerns. We love noir. We love fucking Hitchcock. Whereas like the older guard are like, well, yeah, but that's, that's, yeah, but that's that's entertainment, right? You know, I mean, sure, it's fun. Yeah. It's funny to say about the third man, too.

47:52David Sims:Yes. What were you about to ask, Ben? I wonder, does it maybe have something to do with TV growing up with having access to all of these different kinds of genres? Maybe, but I think TV is still so new.

48:05Griffin Newman:It's more the picture house thing of those movies would just show the trashier movies. You could just sit there and just watch all different kinds of movies all day.

48:12David Sims:I think that's a lot of it, that these guys really dug in and studied the kind of form and construction of these things. And there's artistry here, while not presenting themselves as serious. does not seem he has ever been a guest on the Howard Stern show there are many clips of other people talking about him coward he has done that on Friedland he should he should do hot ones that might kill him

48:38Griffin Newman:let's be careful I don't know what Marty's diet is

48:42David Sims:just sniffing those hot sauces might be dangerous

48:46Griffin Newman:French New Wave is happening while he's in film school it's very very liberating for him he says Hiroshima Mon Amour or Jules Le Gim, Vieux-Savie. My opinion is that those are good movies. They're good movies. He just thinks about things like Anna Karina's reading a letter and then there's a jump cut to a man folding it up. He's gone up and taken it out of her hand. You're breaking narrative, right? I mean, obviously, this is the whole thing with the French New Wave where you show people now and they're like, I don't get it. Right. And you're like, yeah, but dude... Literally hadn't been done.

49:15Griffin Newman:Right. And then, you know, Cassavetes is out there. Yeah. Shadows has been released. Yeah. Right? Yep. By then.

49:21David Sims:Yeah, and this is happening in New York.

49:23Griffin Newman:And he made that on a 16mm camera in New York City, so it can be done.

49:27David Sims:And it was a scrappy, iterative movie. He shot it twice. Right over a bunch of years and all that. Right, it's like this guy just kind of eked it out.

49:35Griffin Newman:Yeah. So he works on some student stuff. He's a cinematographer or the photographer for a short called Iniesta. And then his first short is called What's a Nice Girl Like You Doing in a Place Like This. It's a pretty excellent title. We're going to talk about these early shorts, including this one, right? Yes. That's all on this Persezzi Shorts kind of box set.

49:56David Sims:That's on there. Italian-American, Big Shave. Right. Yeah.

50:00Griffin Newman:In 65, he also marriages his... Marriages? He marriages. He marries his college girlfriend, Lorraine Brennan. They have a daughter, Catherine, his oldest daughter, who is very present in his life, but clearly has a complicated relationship with him when she's young, because he divorces her mother, and then they've divorced in 71, and then he's like, you know, being really regular through all of the 70s.

50:22David Sims:It's a big thing that, who's that knocking on my door is about, but he still talks about how much shame there was associated with the idea of even like socializing with women and how kind of sinful it was unless you were immediately just going to make an honest woman out of her and get married and start a family, you know? And I think Marty was always a little bit horny and felt the need to be like, well, then I guess I just got to get married again. He got married a bunch.

50:53Griffin Newman:There were some marriages. There were some marriages. How old was he when he became a dad? Well, of the first child... Early 20s? Yeah. I mean, geez. Yeah, he would have been like 23, 24, I think. Yeah. So pretty young. Not like insane, but...

51:08David Sims:And he still talks about it. Like when he was like, you know, if I want to date someone, I felt like I had to marry them.

51:13Griffin Newman:Who's that knocking at the door? It was actually written as the second part of a series of films meant to explore his adolescence. The first was going to be called Jerusalem, Jerusalem. It's a sort of half-finished screenplay he wrote where his protagonist called J.R., later called Charlie, which, you know, Mean Streets' main character is called Charlie, in which they, like, spend three... He and some boys spend some days in a religious retreat. You know, sounds a little less exciting. Haig Manugian is his first producer. You know, helps him make this movie. His father raised$6 ,000 for him from a student loan.

51:49Griffin Newman:He thinks it's the first student film shot in black and white, 35 millimeters on the East Coast. Interesting. That's, it is wild to think about.

51:58David Sims:It's that early. Things being that nascent.

52:00Griffin Newman:Yeah.

52:01David Sims:Because even just like film school is a new thing.

52:03Griffin Newman:Part of the idea of training people. Of course. And I think it was mostly technical. Like it was mostly like, yes, well, we now make film and television and stuff. Here's how to do that. Right. Because it used to be like, you know. The new wave is happening. So like the art is so exciting and it's challenging.

52:18David Sims:It's different. Not too, not too generalized, but it used to be more like fucking joining the circus. Like you would just like get on a fucking bus to Hollywood and get off and be like, what can I do? And then you just learn everything, you know, from like carrying crates and shit. But even though the technology has been around for, at that point, 50 years.

52:37Griffin Newman:But it's not very accessible. I think basically we're very early in like, you could get your hands on a 16 millimeter camera maybe, that's more portable and you could maybe like make a movie for not as much money, right?

52:51David Sims:Yeah.

52:51Griffin Newman:Like you develop a film yourself. It's still gonna be harder. You're gonna have to cut it with scissors and shit.

52:55David Sims:A 35 millimeter camera is still a thing that's like kind of locked behind gates. You know, it's really hard to get an opportunity to work with something like that. Yeah, they're smaller. There are very few film schools. They're all very new. And it's so expensive. There's a barrier of entry. And you gotta buy film. Yeah, but it, yes, yes. And it's the complicated process. But these things had basically been built around like institutional knowledge. Like there wasn't really a pipeline. And it also was, and it speaks to what we're saying of like the sort of snobbishness against commercial cinema.

53:24David Sims:There was this battle of like, is this a fucking serious thing? You know, do we need to be like training people in how to make movies? Is that like an intellectual exercise? Or is that like learning how to work an auto plant?

53:46David Sims:David, do you know what's the first thing I'm going to tell my kids when they come out of the womb? What are you going to say? Cash app now offers managed accounts for kids ages 6 to 12 with no hidden fees and no minimum balance requirements. Plus, something no other kid's financial app offers. One account your child will never outgrow. Their savings, habits, and history carry forward from a parent-managed account at 6 to a teen account at 13 to a full account at 18.

54:13Griffin Newman:You can set up automatic recurring allowances. You can track spending. You can help them work towards specific goals without overcomplicating your life. They'll earn interest on savings and kids get a customizable debit card. It feels personal to them while you guide everything behind the scenes. Account runs through you. You manage everything from your own Cash App. So whether they have$5 from allowance or$40 from their birthday, it all counts and all stays with them as they grow. There's no subscription fees. There's no minimum balance requirements. It's just a simple way to help your kids start building smart money habits that will actually stick.

54:42Griffin Newman:Download Cash App today and open a managed account for your child. Visit our link in bio.

55:16David!

55:17David Sims:Yes? Bark, bark. Bark, bark. What's going on? It's the dog days of summer. Augie-dogie. August. Okay. It's the perfect time to hit reset before the autumn rush begins. And honestly, I'm stroking my chin here, and I can't think of a better place to start than my closet. Uh-huh. That's where I want to reset. That's why I love shopping at Quince.

55:39Griffin Newman:Yeah, because they're about fewer better pieces. Their clothes are made with premium materials and they're built to last, designed to ones you reach for day after day. So you don't need to overstuff your closet. I hate overstuffing my closet.

55:50David Sims:I think that's a fair thing. If you're still hanging on to the same worn out basics, and that's me, I'm loathe to reset and restart. Ben's now eyeballing my wardrobe. He's looking me up and down. These are some newer pieces from Quince because Quince makes it easy to upgrade, which I need the encouragement to do. They have premium denim and tailored chinos from just$60 with the kind of perfect fit, structure, and high quality fabrics you'd expect from a luxury designer brand.

56:20Griffin Newman:Yep. I mean, I truly love Quince. You truly love them. You marry them. You put a ring on it. I've got like 15 polo shirts from them. Upgrade your everyday. Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers or go to quince.com slash check. Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns now available in Canada and the UK too. That's quince.com slash check. Become tão basil at R이라고!

56:48Griffin Newman:Harvey Keitel. Harvey Keitel. Answers an ad they put in a publication called Show Business. And he comes in and Marty has a friend called Bill Minkin, who's a comedian, sit behind a desk for this. Harvey comes in, Bill Minkin's like, Marty has coached him to be like, what are you doing here? And Harvey's like, I answered an ad. And he's like, there's no ad. And basically goad him into an argument. and then they like watch the argument and then Marty is like, that was great. And Harvey's like, why didn't you fucking tell me like to improv something? I can do that. Like, why are you doing fucking Jamie Kennedy experiment on me?

57:27Griffin Newman:Marty did X. Marty did. It sounds like he X the hell out of Keitel. Keitel was working as a court stenographer. Uh-huh. So I think that tends to be kind of a nine to five job. So I think making this movie was really annoying.

57:40David Sims:Harvey Kuttell's the kind of guy, just his vibe, his look, his generation where I'm like, you could tell me he was doing any job before he became an actor and I would believe. Yeah, right. There was no job. He was a sea captain. I'm like, sure. Yeah, of course. And then he docked and he started acting in movies.

58:00Griffin Newman:He was a lion tamer. They shot it over the course of many months, right? Like, they had so much trouble matching scenes. They said they would shoot in a building, they'd blow the lights, They'd have to wait for hours to reset everything. They didn't know what they were doing. The first version is 65 minutes long. It's called Bring on the Dancing Girls. Yes. They screen it for people.

58:20David Sims:It's terrible. Right. And this was just, I want to make a film about male camaraderie. I want to try to capture what I see and the guys I grew up with and my generation and all of that. So we got to make a movie out of this, man. But Ben, it is basically that. It is basically Marty going like, this is the web series. this conversation we're having right now, none of the girl stuff is in it.

58:43Griffin Newman:Yeah, it doesn't have the girl stuff. It's just guys hanging out.

58:45David Sims:None of it's written. She's not cast. It's not shot. That's not part of the conception of the movie.

58:49Griffin Newman:I mean, there's like a girl in it, but there's no confrontation.

58:53David Sims:I'm saying the character of the girl. All of that is a secondary shoot later.

58:57Griffin Newman:This movie is just guys being dudes. It's just guys being dudes. So in 66, people don't like it. He says he has no money. His marriage is already falling apart. He's got 50 minutes of a dude hangout movie that no one wants. Right. He teams up with Marduk Martin, who's an early collaborator of his on Brooks on Mean Streets and other things. They neither of them have any money, but they start thinking about things. And somehow they get$37 ,000 from Haig and from Joe Weil, another student who was a lawyer, to finance the rest of the picture, which involved scenes with a girl. They needed an actress.

59:34Griffin Newman:They needed a 16 millimeter camera. they were going to cut that in with the some 35 millimeter stuff they had shot. And, uh, they start shooting in some real locations. Um, he said, the way he puts it is, I realized I was in the process of combining two styles. Let's say Cassavetes with Ford, because it's like these two movies essentially get turned into one movie are very differently made because he's learning. Previously tried to shoot sequences without dialogue, tell the stories through images, but it didn't work. They find this actress, Zena Bethune. They call Harvey Keitel back.

1:00:07David Sims:Her mother was a big actress of the early American theater and radio. She was on the original Superman radio show. And Eva Bethune was also a dancer. Ivy Bethune.

1:00:17Griffin Newman:I'm sorry, Ivy Bethune. No, I'm saying Ivy was the mother. Yes.

1:00:20David Sims:And Eva Bethune was also a dancer. She later started her own acting school company that sort of became her legacy, but didn't have many acting roles.

1:00:30Griffin Newman:No, she's only got a few film credits. Keitel's like back to working as a court stenographer. They cut his hair and stuff and he's like, I fuck you. This is annoying.

1:00:40David Sims:You also have to imagine this is like, what, a year, 18 months later? And it's like, I got to do more of that shit with the guy who fucking X'd me.

1:00:48Griffin Newman:This is around the time he also makes the big shave. Yeah, that's his breakthrough. Right. That wins a prize at a festival of American cinema, experimental cinema. Right. So that gets him a little bit of attention.

1:00:59David Sims:We will cover it then, but it's a true short dialogue-free film that is pretty experimental and allegorical, metaphorical. But it has like a really big impact. It is talked about as like a calling card thing as there's sort of a rising like film intelligentsia, you know, and the sort of critical community of New York City. He's immediately kind of propped up as like, this guy's interesting.

1:01:26Griffin Newman:Now he has a new cut. He calls it I Call First. He screens it at the Chicago Film Festival. Roger Ebert of the Sun-Times gives it a great review. Am I wrong in thinking it is literally Roger Ebert's first published review? Not sure about that. Okay. But I can tell you that he said he called it a marvelous evocation of American city life, announcing the arrival of an important new director.

1:01:51David Sims:He did kind of nail it from the hat for it with that one. Roger Ebert dines out on this for the rest of his life. He has many accomplishments, but being able to brag about like, I fucking called it. I saw this at the earliest possible showing. And I was like, I put my money down on Martin Scorsese having a good career as a film director. And Scorsese also says that it like kind of made him or at the very least empowered him. David, do you have your own version of that?

1:02:18Griffin Newman:Oh, like the movie I called my shot or I don't think so. I think I was the first.

1:02:26David Sims:person to say Hilton Transylvania is good. Right? That was a risky position at that time. I wasn't actually literally asking. You were being fine. Yeah. I was hoping that you would come up with like, I don't know, something dumb. Okay. But there's still a chance later. And new listeners, we do this sometimes.

1:02:43Griffin Newman:We do this sometimes. Sometimes we seed a bit. So, he tries to get in the New York Film Festival. He says, they told me I was living aesthetically beyond my means, which is funny. He goes to Europe. takes it around there. He meets an Italian Joseph Brenner Associates, a softcore porn distributor. Says, if you add a nude scene, we'll distribute this. So he adds the nude scene.

1:03:11David Sims:Yes. It was not Ebert's first review, but it was the first review Scorsese got. It was the first review that movie got. Yes, but this is very illustrative of this era of filmmaking. If you were making an independent film, you could screen it for someone and they'd just go like if you can find a way to throw like five tits in this I can get it on like five screens right truly they'd be like I'll give you $20 ,000 find a couple of boobs edit them into the movie and that's like I can make my money back on that

1:03:43Griffin Newman:they're in Amsterdam they fly Harvey Keitel who I assume is the middle of like you know your honor I object to Amsterdam they got as he puts it a bunch of girls and did the crazy nude scene to get that in there. And, you know, he looks back on the film and sees its flaws, but you know, it's part of in the context of the late 60s, free love, the sexual revolution, and here's this guy who can't, like, fuck a girl because he likes her and, like, is too afraid of sex. He's like, it's out of sync, but in a good way, right?

1:04:19David Sims:You know what I mean? I think this movie's fascinating. I actually like it a lot. I think it is one of those movies where its failings and its limitations actually kind of give it more power because it's sort of about how unsettled it is with itself and all the things this guy has not yet worked through in himself. It's such a like pure primal scream of Scorsese. And I also think past Mean Streets, his movies stopped being about him. They become about his obsessions and his worldview, and they're all very personal. Sure. And Mean Streets is about him. Hugo's about him.

1:04:51Griffin Newman:He did live in a train station in Paris and meet a robot.

1:04:53David Sims:Well, those are his best friends, the automatons. They write all of his favorite things. Mean Streets, as we'll talk about next week, is this fascinating sort of pivot point where he has a self-insert character played by Cattell, but then it feels like, he goes like, wait, what if I build the whole movie out of the De Niro guys? The guys I know, not me at the center of the story. And Who's That Knocked in My Door is like a movie about him. It is like Scorsese, like almost as a therapy session of a film, working through all of his concerns and like spilling them out. And the form of the movie, even in its weird, like, you know, segmented production and its like development across years and all this sort of like wedged in pieces, feels like it's a representation of what he's battling inside of himself in that way.

1:05:48David Sims:you know like it's messiness to me it's not me saying it's a perfect film or that's a masterpiece but that I think it's a really engaging thing to watch I like this I think it's

1:05:57Griffin Newman:it is mostly interesting as a movie made by Martin Scorsese you know what I mean like it's just an interesting blueprint for him and the music is good and the camera work is interesting but it is not a good movie like in terms of like if you just showed it to someone who'd never seen a Martin Scorsese movie they would be like, I love that. It's an interesting first work. It's got some stuff in it. And because you know who made it and you know where it's leading, it has all this fascinating blueprint material. Yes. Right. Which is interesting. One could call it a bit of a Rosetta stunt. I think that's almost a stretch.

1:06:35Griffin Newman:He thinks that's a stretch. He's kind of like, I don't know. He's like, I didn't get the emotions right. I dislike the movie. It's a rough sketch. but, you know, Keitel's good. I think Xena Bethune is good. I think the camera work is good. I like what I, you know, the music stuff.

1:06:55David Sims:He's got Thelma editing this one and then they don't re-team again for another couple pictures. For more than a couple, yeah, for a little while. But especially knowing that he gave her such a weird batch of footage, you know, shot across years in different formats and different eras. She's doing really interesting stuff in the construction.

1:07:12Griffin Newman:The stuff with the boys hanging out, you know, like some of that is fun, But like you have mean streets, which does it a lot better. So like you can always just obviously see mean streets in a little bit.

1:07:23David Sims:But this is a movie where those things are like fighting each other. It's not even like, well, here's a rough version of this and a rough version of that. Like the nature of how it was made means that you have these scenes that are just the uncut form of guys roughhousing and then cutting to like an entirely different mode of filmmaking with these like more intimate. dialogue scene, shot an entirely different film format, and the two sides of the movie clashing against each other because Thelma's actually using new way of editing rather than invisible editing and making something out of the juxtaposition between

1:07:59Griffin Newman:the two. I love Thelma. Guess who else likes this movie? Roger Ebert. No. Guess who else? Who? Cassavetes. Well, yes. He digs it. He likes it a lot. Or at least he notices the talent. Senpah notices. so that is who's that knocking into my door before we move on to Boxcar Bertha that's all we're gonna say about who's that knocking no I'm saying that's the end of the dossier on who's that knocking into my door do you think we should talk

1:08:23David Sims:about the movie a little more and then do the boxcar dossier section

1:08:26Griffin Newman:we should also we can do a box office game I think we should do a little how spicy yes but no no no I'm not saying we're done with talking about the movie although it is it's a slight movie in terms of narrative obviously but no it's you know I saw it years ago when I was like I'm going to watch every single Scorsese movie. So then I was like, let me clear it out. And I found it very interesting. This time, I was a little kind of like, I had just watched Mean Streets because we did just record that episode. We've only recorded one other episode. We just did one leapfrog. And I was just the whole time being a little bit like, right, well, there's Mean Streets.

1:09:05David Sims:Yeah, but that's okay. That's maybe a you problem that Mean Streets is fresh. You made that three years later. I know. so you know how good it's gonna get

1:09:13Griffin Newman:Ben, had you seen this film before? I'd never seen it before Who's that knocking at my door? Well, the boys reminded me of a lot of characters I grew up with in particular Smart Joey reminds me of a bunch of guys where they're always mad and seemingly don't want people to be around but also want people around It's really interesting that now I know the process of how this film was made because it did feel really disconnected.

1:09:50David Sims:Right. You kind of have to know that it was made that way to get any enjoyment out of it because otherwise you're like, what are the fucking swings this thing is doing? Yeah.

1:09:58Griffin Newman:Right. Because it's just kind of, I mean, it almost feels like someone made a parody of a Scorsese movie with no money, right? Where they're like, let's do some music. And then it's like a bunch of guys go like, hey, what are you doing? You know, and you're like, right. This is like what these movies are like. The parody part. And then the guy's like, but I love Jesus. The violence being so corny. Sure. And not well thought out. And yet it looks like they're kind of really hitting each other in an amateur way.

1:10:28David Sims:It's also like every piece of the puzzle, though.

1:10:32Griffin Newman:You know, I mean, like one of the first scenes is a guy just talking to a girl about fucking the searchers. It's insane. For like so long that you're like, you have her attention. You're losing her, buddy.

1:10:43David Sims:Like there's that there's, you know, that thing of like the theory that filmmakers are always just remaking the same movie over and over again. Hopefully they're refining it and stretching it and, you know, morphing it, whatever it is. And it's like this isn't like the the model for in final form what his movies will be from here on out. but it is him identifying every single thing he's going to do, what the sensibility is, what the style is. Like just dumping all the puzzle pieces out on the floor is kind of fascinating to me.

1:11:17Griffin Newman:Yeah, totally. It's a very interesting thing to watch. And I mean, Harvey's good in it. I mean, obviously, again, it's the building blocks of better Harvey stuff, but like he's so compelling.

1:11:27David Sims:It's also, this is the only time he's playing Marty this much in all the scenes with the girl. you mean he's doing a little bit more like Marty than Mean Streets. Right, where it feels like he's like, I get it, this is based on him. I'm this guy, right, yeah, yeah. You know, which I think is a common thing. You hear about this all the time, lead actors who are kind of sort of mirroring their director, even in cases where the character isn't an evident kind of self-insert. And this is the only time where I feel like I've seen Keitel take on the qualities of Scorsese. Right, because the Mean Streets character is more thought through, a little quieter,

1:12:02Griffin Newman:or more reserved.

1:12:03David Sims:Right, it feels like he's building a character

1:12:05Griffin Newman:based on the thing that Scorsese wrote. I do miss a De Niro type. Like, he doesn't have a good guy to push against.

1:12:12David Sims:No, as you said, the kind of rough guys are all a little generic, you know? It is, the moment he finds De Niro, it changes the entire course of his career, you know? Like, that guy walking into the bar is just like, oh, wait a second. If I have something like this in the mix, my movies can suddenly, like, it's gasoline in the tank. I like Xena Bethune a lot. Yeah. I think she plays the character with some depth and agency, even though, again, I don't feel like she's been given very much. I mean, let's say what this movie is. Down to not given a character name. She is the girl. She's girl. They give her a proper title.

1:12:51David Sims:She's the girl. Oh, no. Oh, I think she's just girl.

1:12:53Griffin Newman:I mean, I'm seeing here girl. Yeah, maybe. I thought I saw the girl in the end credit. It's also the kind of classic thing of Marty's like, Well, the boys need different names because there are multiple male characters. The girl could just be called girl.

1:13:04David Sims:Excuse me, there's a second female character. His mommy. I'm sorry. In the sort of sex scene, there are multiple girls in the dream, but they're not even numbered.

1:13:14Griffin Newman:They are not. They are just girl in dream.

1:13:16David Sims:There is also a couple girl at party. There you go. Yes. This is the only Scorsese movie that's only on DVD and even like on iTunes is a standard deaf version. I don't know that he's ever cared to

1:13:30Griffin Newman:refurbish it

1:13:31David Sims:no there was an early 2000s Warner Brothers Scorsese box set where this was an exclusive DVD for a while and it was like that's the one way we're getting that film back in circulation and it basically feels like that DVD master is what is still rentable

1:13:46Griffin Newman:they never thought to put it on a Blu-ray with Mean Streets or something you know what I mean that's the kind of move they do you just kind of throw it in

1:13:55David Sims:I mean, we'll talk about, you know, Boxcar Bertha, which was the other sort of like abandoned one for a while, just got this big cinematograph. I bought it. I bought it. I watched it. Same. But that feels like, well, that has more of a curio aspect of being a Corman movie and fitting into that era of genre pictures and whatever. It feels like inevitably someone's got to put out a better version of who's that knocking. I'm sure it's just important American film history.

1:14:21Griffin Newman:I agree with you, but I think that is largely how it's regarded. right like no one's I don't know I mean even Shyamalan told me he's remastered and worked on Train with Anger it's still not available well because I was like are you going to release it and he was like I don't know I'm kind of embarrassed yeah he was like I wanted to show it to my kids in like that format I have no idea if I want to do anything more and I'm like I get it because it's like it's a very amateurish movie in so many ways

1:14:45David Sims:I was looking up I was like what are there other holes I need to plug in my like blank check disk collection of the main feed episodes and I was like am I wrong about this and I double checked like Praying with Anger never got any it didn't get even like a VHS I don't believe so it certainly never got

1:15:00Griffin Newman:any DVD or anything I certainly don't there's no way it got a DVD right yeah right you can watch it on the internet archive I mean that's

1:15:08David Sims:where we watched it I believe 10 11 years long time ago 10 years ago yeah now I want to see if there is a VHS and do I need to buy the VHS and is Praying with Anger a porch movie these are important questions that will be settled later it does seem like there was a VHS

1:15:24Griffin Newman:are you really encouraging him right now sound insulation you think I need to encourage him he's it's true he's snowballing down the hill long ago yeah he's not even bidding he's just buying now what will be will be oh yeah he buys it now

1:15:39David Sims:excuse me the thrill of the hunt's a big part of it for me I was gonna say I don't buy it now

1:15:42Griffin Newman:I'm actually kind of lazy enough I'm more the buy it now type Riff is kind of the like best offer 8 cents lower what do you think

1:15:49David Sims:yeah you don't understand how much time I waste a week trying to like...

1:15:53Griffin Newman:Put that in your cart, they'll notice.

1:15:55David Sims:And then they'll contact you. Yeah, that's my real strategy and it does it all the time. Yeah. I saved dollars this week. At least

1:16:05Griffin Newman:six. Fantastic. So, what else? Yeah, there's a nude scene. Oh yeah, what else? That's like, again, the camera stuff is fun. He's doing camera stuff. Like, there's moments where he's like doing like bird's eye view shit where you're like, I mean, it's the kind of first film stuff where you're like, you didn't need to do that. You know, it's not, it's not really suggesting anything, but clearly you just wanted to see what would like, what that would look like. Some close up kissing. Yeah. The eyeball close ups. I don't think people should kiss in movies. Can we say this movie does have a lot.

1:16:38David Sims:Just kidding. The story of this movie is a guy who, JR. You could say he's trying very hard to fit in with the boys, right? There seems to be something a little more thoughtful, a little more sensitive within him. He likes just sitting in nature and taking it in. But he knows that's, you know, maybe that's not... That's not cool. Right. Sally Gaga is not going to like that. Right. So he goes out and gets drunk and they punch each other and they talk about who was. And he meets a girl that he likes.

1:17:07Griffin Newman:Yes, he's going to go on the Staten Island ferry and he's talking to her like he's about to fucking, you know, go to Antarctica. He's like, yeah, I mean, Jesus. But he meets, at the ferry station, I feel like. That's where he talks your ear off about the searchers. They mention Jeffrey Hunter. Do you know who he is? Yeah. I don't. Jeffrey Hunter's in the searchers. He's also Captain Christopher Pike. It's his other famous role.

1:17:33David Sims:Captain Christopher Pike was the captain of the Enterprise on the original pilot of Star Trek, and they recast him because they thought he didn't have the juice, and they replaced him with William Shatner. Who did have the juice, to be fair? Captain Kirk has the juice. Yes. he is almost like Mr. Juicy Juice in terms of how much juice he had. But it is basically like... Then they recut the pilot footage into a later two-part episode. They did. That is true. Where Captain Pike was the kind of rejected and scorned previous... They canonically made him the captain that Kirk had replaced. Right. And he got burned up in an accident.

1:18:07David Sims:And he's in a big kind of robot body wheelchair. Yeah. Pretty cool actually. He's actually a really cool guy. And Bruce Greenwood plays him in the JJ movies. Right. And now... He's an excellent performance steady hand. Who plays him now? Instant Mount.

1:18:16Griffin Newman:And he's really, really good. But it's just funny that in Martin Scorsese's first movie, someone says, Jeffrey Hunter. Oh, sure. And I'm like, Captain Pike. Captain Pike.

1:18:25David Sims:Anyway, yeah, he meets a girl, and he likes her. He's having kind of a secret romance with her, and it feels like he both is trying to shield from his boyfriends, that he has feelings, that he has a romantic attachment to a woman who he wants to talk to, whose brain he is interested in, and also his overwhelming Catholic guilt. Well, because also at that time... He's still living at home. We talked about this a little bit on our Mean Streets episode. And you can't bring this girl around your mom. No. You get in trouble. No. And people who live alone at this age are seen as deviants. The only reason you could possibly want to do that is so you could have premarital sex.

1:19:08David Sims:The worst thing in the world. I actually love it. Big fan. Wild coming from the two married guys in the room. You guys fucked that one up.

1:19:19Griffin Newman:So, what was I going to say? They have this attachment.

1:19:23David Sims:And then...

1:19:23Griffin Newman:He won't have sex with her. Yes. Because he doesn't want to spoil her.

1:19:26David Sims:He doesn't want to spoil her. And she reveals to him... A bit retrograde. Yes. Yes. That she is a survivor of sexual assault. Yes. And he has a very negative response to it. He is not mature enough to grapple with that in a good way. That she feels dirty and tarnished. What did you do to encourage that? why were you even with that guy in the first place? He's so selfish and has no empathy. It makes me very mad. He just doesn't.

1:19:53Griffin Newman:He's not mature enough. He cannot handle it. It's all about him. There's a part of him that could have empathy, but he cannot access it at all.

1:20:01David Sims:Well, right. If we can parse this for a second, right? I mean, this is the whole kind of like tightly wound Catholic guilt ball of wax is like, all I want is to have sex. I am told that if I have sex, that's the worst thing I could possibly do. So there's this, you know, the Madonna and the Whore bifurcation, right? Of like, I can go rent out an apartment and have my own fucking like boom boom sex orgy because that's the way I get my rocks off without tarnishing the sanctity of a woman I actually care about. And then the notion that she has had sex in any form when he feels like he cannot allow himself to have sex with her, even if the sex she had was a rape, was violent, was not of her own agency, is a thing that he can't process.

1:20:46David Sims:Because all he wants is to have, like, intimate relations with her, which he feels like he cannot do without ruining her. It is a movie about his immaturity. This is not a plot-driven movie. This is the closest thing the movie has to, like, an emotional arc or a story, and it's basically not developed into over halfway through. and I think like the note of maturity in this film the thing that shows a little bit of understanding from Scorsese who at this point has just not processed his own shit enough to be able to make a film with enough objective distance I give him credit for understanding that the end of this movie when he goes and tries to do the like you know what I apologize I forgive you that she's like fuck you

1:21:34Griffin Newman:that's what I like right he's like I'll marry you anyway and she's like You clearly cannot handle what has happened to me and do not have the right feelings for this.

1:21:43David Sims:You watch a movie from the 1960s and you're worried that the guy is going to be rewarded for saying, I will accept you even though you are tarnished goods.

1:21:51Griffin Newman:I've worked through the thing you told me and I accept you. No, instead, she's like, fuck off and he goes to the church and doesn't know what to do with himself. It's classic Scorsese. Oh, oh! Right. What's up, Ben? Let's play the box office game. Well, yeah. Thankfully, we've gotten to the end. Yes. And we're not talking about the end. Which is the needle drop. Oh, sure. And it's a song that stinks. By a group that also stinks. Go on. The Doors. Oh. It's just that I had this note where I'm just like, ah, good. The Doors are in this movie. Just what I mean. I guess they were hot stuff, right?

1:22:32David Sims:He was at the tip of the spear on this one. You do have to give him credit. People were pointing out They're only a couple years old at this point. It's credited as... It's listed as like a 67 movie, but I think the final sort of round of shooting they do to add the boobs and the boom-boom in maybe happens in 68.

1:22:50Griffin Newman:I'm not sure about that. It was released in America in 68, but it was screened in Chicago in 67. But I think what Ebert saw was a slightly earlier version. That is possible. I don't know.

1:22:59David Sims:I saw someone interrogating that This Is The End comes out in 1967, and they were like, that's a really fast turnaround, but it seems like maybe the song was only added when the film got proper distribution in 68.

1:23:11Griffin Newman:Anyway, Come on Baby Light My Fire. That's not the song, but... He walked down the hallway of the ancient gallery.

1:23:20David Sims:Ben, just take a step back and think of him being the first one to ever be like, hey, you hear the song from the doors? I'm not saying you've got to give him credit. No, no, no.

1:23:29Griffin Newman:This is the real question. Right. Ben, it's 1967. You are Ben Hosley. bloop you've been dropped in there someone puts on the doors bell bottoms or whatever do you like it someone's like hey if you've never met I'm gonna spin a groovy tune you've never met a guy

1:23:46David Sims:who likes the doors

1:23:47Griffin Newman:right you've never met a guy who's built his personality you've never been in a college dorm room and seen a poster of Jim Morrison right

1:23:55David Sims:you're a high schooler let's say 1967 you're walking around Greenwich Village you walk into a record store it's playing no one even introduces it to you No one recommends it. You're not associating it with a person. You're hearing it fresh. What's this I hear? I'm hearing this for the first time. Wow. What is there to say? Do you think you hate them that much just from the music alone? I'll give you that. I wouldn't hate them. Sure. It wouldn't be your thing. It wouldn't be. Yeah. But I would be at least interested because they have a unique thing going. Yeah. this fucking drunk poet idiot and an organist yeah

1:24:45David

1:24:46David Sims:yes bark bark bark bark what's going on it's the dog days of summer true oggy doggy August okay it's the perfect time to hit reset before the autumn rush begins and honestly I'm stroking my chin here and I can't think of a better place to start than my closet.

1:25:05Griffin Newman:Uh-huh.

1:25:05David Sims:That's where I want to reset. That's why I love shopping at Quince.

1:25:09Griffin Newman:Yeah, because they're about fewer better pieces. Their clothes are made with premium materials and they're built to last, designed to ones you reach for day after day. So you don't need to overstuff your closet. I hate overstuffing my closet.

1:25:20David Sims:I think that's a fair thing. If you're still hanging on to the same worn out basics, and that's me, I'm loathe to reset and restart. Ben's now eyeballing my wardrobe. He's looking me up and down. These are some newer pieces from Quince because Quince makes it easy to upgrade, which I need the encouragement to do. They have premium denim and tailored chinos from just$60 with the kind of perfect fit structure and high quality fabrics you'd expect from a luxury designer brand.

1:25:49Griffin Newman:Yep. I mean, I truly love Quince. You truly love them. You marry them. I've got like 15 polo shirts from them. Upgrade your everyday. Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers or go to quince.com slash check. Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns, now available in Canada and the UK too. That's quince.com slash check.

1:26:16Griffin Newman:What do you think was number one at the box office when this... Jim Morrison was kind of an organist as well, if you know what I'm saying. When this, quote unquote, came out in America. What do I think was number one at the box office in 1968? September 18th, you know, 16th September 1968. I can give you a hint. It's a film that features an actor who liked this movie. He was also director. John Cassavetes. The Dirty Dozen? Nope. Rosemary's Baby? Rosemary's Baby. Interesting. Which was number one for a million weeks. Like, you know, it was such a big hit. Number two at the box office is a film we've covered on this podcast.

1:26:49David Sims:Number two is a film we've covered on this podcast. It's something of a totemic film. Huh. Is it a 67 picture or 68? It's 68. It's a 68. It's a totemic film. Is it a Kubrick? Yes. It would be 2001. That's right. Yeah. Quite totemic. Do you agree? You said it, not I. Number three. Wow, it's really crazy to think that this movie we just saw came out at the same time as that movie. That's why that movie is the craziest thing in the world. Yeah, it really is. It's not just that that movie looks good for 1968. looks good for 3068 and everything else you know

1:27:29Griffin Newman:was just like on a different planet number three at the box office is a romantic comedy film it stars Sidney Poitier that's what I'm giving you just Sir with Love?

1:27:42David Sims:no

1:27:43Griffin Newman:good guess and it's not

1:27:46David Sims:Guess Who's Coming to Dinner? no it's a lesser known

1:27:49Griffin Newman:it's a lesser known

1:27:50David Sims:do you think do you think I know it?

1:27:51Griffin Newman:is it a known title? I'm not sure Yeah. I'm not sure. I'll give you more hints. Directed by Daniel Mann. Okay. You know, made a lot of movies. Who's the leading lady of this picture? Abby Lincoln. That really doesn't help. A great African-American singer. Okay. I can tell you that Bo Bridges in this film, Carol O 'Connor. Uh-oh. Did he have some opinions on a character in this film? I can tell you the score was composed by Quincy Jones, and he wrote the title theme song as well, which was nominated for Best Song at the Academy Awards. And it is the title of the movie. It's not like fucking love is a many splendor.

1:28:26Griffin Newman:You're not that far off. I'm going to give it to you. It's for love of Ivy. Oh, sure. Here's another film. Number four at the box office. Let me look it up here. Look it up here, please. Is a 1968 British film starring Oscar Werner. Okay. Good actor. I love Oscar Werner. And Barbara Ferris. Okay. I can't say I've heard of this one.

1:28:48David Sims:Hmm.

1:28:49Griffin Newman:Get directed by Kevin Billington. I don't think you've got this. Does there seem to be a genre attached to this picture? Drama. Drama. That's helpful. A famous male conductor gives an interview to an attractive female reporter he speaks to frankly and ends up being given an unwanted sabbatical from conducting. So far, it sounds like tar. I was going to say. He begins an affair with the reporter during his blank, which is the title of the movie. Sabbatical? Close. Interlude. That's a pretty good title. And the accumulation of difference in their ages and background begins to mount. I don't know.

1:29:18Griffin Newman:Sounds okay. Oh, he was like an orchestra. Yeah, not a train conductor. It would be funny if she's like, tell me about how you drive the train. Yeah. Number five at the box office is a 67 film, Griffin. That's how successful it's been. It's been in the box office for 39 weeks. It is another totemic movie. It is a romantic comedy drama. It is the graduate.

1:29:39David Sims:The highest grossing film of 1967. Me, graduate. Yeah. Yes. I mean, 1967, obviously, is the pictures of the revolution year. That's the Bonnie and Clyde graduate in the heat of the night. And then Dr. Doolittle, of course.

1:29:56Griffin Newman:The most revolutionary film of all.

1:29:58David Sims:But I was just looking at my 67 letterbox. It is insane how good that year is. 67? Even just for international cinema, when you take away what was happening at the Oscars.

1:30:09Griffin Newman:Fucking great movie year. But you know what? on every movie. If you throw a, you know, dart at an old movie, you're like, God damn, like it's the best. Playtime came out in 67. Yeah. Weekend came out. Lou Weekend. Yeah, that's a, that's a regular ass movie. Yeah, it is. My wife almost divorced me over that movie. Really? No, no. But you took her to see it? I took her to see it and she was like, the fuck. I was like, sorry, I remember this being a little, a little more narrative than this. Yeah, no, it's just, what if cars were moving? Well, that's the first part, but then it's just people talking about communism him while they eat sandwiches.

1:30:42Griffin Newman:He loved doing that. He did love. Well, it's really the start of him being like, what if this is a lot of the movie? Anyway, some of the other films in the top 10 are The Odd Couple. Fun. Rachel, Rachel. Yeah, the Paul Newman. Mm-hmm. Directed. I've never seen it. Neither have I. Yep. Hang Em High, which is a Clint Eastwood film that he didn't direct. But like Ted Post, it's kind of like, you know, in the Eastwood sort of. I think that's Universe. You know,

1:31:12David Sims:just announced they're putting it out on 4K. They probably did. Yeah. Those fuckers, they probably did.

1:31:16Griffin Newman:A film called Prudence and the Pill, which is a British comedy, a Ronald Neame film. It's a really good title. That I assume is kind of like your classic, like, British kitchen sinky kind of comedy, like, where they're like, well, it's like, ooh, the pill is new. Yeah. And it's about the contraception. Yeah. And then a movie, a Lee Van Cleef cult movie called The Big Gun Down.

1:31:38David Sims:Now, can I turn about as fair play? can I throw a little game at you?

1:31:42Griffin Newman:Yeah, sure.

1:31:43David Sims:Do you think you can... Like a Spaghetti Western. Guess the top five highest grossing films of the year 1968.

1:31:51Griffin Newman:1968 in film.

1:31:52David Sims:And I will say two of the films that were just in the top five. I was about to say, 2001's in there. Yeah, where do you think it is? One or two. Two. What do you think would have beaten it? In... 68. Is the Odd Couple in there? Odd Couple's number three. There you go. Odd Couple made a robust$20 million. 2001 did 21. and one film beat them both with 24. It is a film that won one of the major acting categories this year. It's the arrival of a giant star. And a star we're very familiar with on this podcast.

1:32:22Griffin Newman:Oh, Funny Girl.

1:32:23David Sims:That was the number one movie? Yeah, it's funny that a local New York act like that could somehow be the highest grossing film. Well, it's funny that there was a girl premise of the film. People were laughing just when they saw the marquee. This is a funny girl. They didn't even see the poster. Is Rosemary's Baby in the top five? Rosemary's Baby is number seven. Okay. But it was so big hit. It was always a very big hit. Is Planet of the Apes in the top five? Planet of the Apes is number six. Okay. Both of those did 15. Okay. Give me a hint. Can you guess four and five? Four is... I don't want to use the word, but it is a giant action film classic.

1:32:57David Sims:It weirdly did not become a franchise, but has often been threatened with a remake. Oh, Bullet. Correct. Oh. And number five... Good movie.

1:33:05Griffin Newman:Fun.

1:33:06David Sims:Not my favorite. number five but very sexy is a musical it's a musical it's not Funny Girl I don't want to give you the obvious hint but it's a musical 68 oh well is it Oliver? correct Oliver is the fifth highest grossing film of the year

1:33:22Griffin Newman:because that's the whole thing with the Biscuit book where he's like wow you know Hollywood's and then it's like yeah well let's not forget the next year they're like Oliver bring them all bring a and Funny Girl for Best Actress right at least Funny Girl is a little more But the next year was more classical.

1:33:39David Sims:You have Rosemary's Baby there at seven. You have 2001 at two. But then, you know, Funny Girl, Odd Couple. Planet of the Apes is the beginning of something new. Number eight was the Zeffirelli, Romeo and Juliet. Normal film, no legal problems there. Number nine, of course, was Yours, Mine and Ours. I have heard of it. The Peter Fonda, Lucille Ball movie that's basically riffed on in Licorice Pizza and was remade with Dennis Quaid and Rene Russo. Right. That's my favorite movie of all time, the remake. Right. But the movie itself was a cheaper by the dozen ripoff that then got remade as a ripoff of the cheaper by the dozen remake.

1:34:18Griffin Newman:Of the sequel.

1:34:19David Sims:And then number 10 was Lion in Winter.

1:34:21Griffin Newman:Which is also a Best Picture contender, I guess. Yeah. But not the winner. Right. Right. I always forget. I always... Man for All Seasons is the one that won Best Picture. Lion in Winter just wins like acting awards. right? Because Hepburn wins. She ties with Streisand. Streisand. Yes. Let's talk about Boxcar Bertha. Let's talk about Now, I have also only seen this film once before I watched it for today's podcast. Saw it in high school. Out of a sense of completionism again. It is a film directed by Martin Scorsese. He did make the film. It came out in 1972. Now, I will tell you that after Who's That Knocking?

1:34:58Griffin Newman:he was hired to film to direct a film called The Honeymoon Killers. It was brought to him by an agent his agent, Harry Uffland. His script was very long. He couldn't connect with the material. He said he wanted to try to make it

1:35:13David Sims:in the style of a Carl Theodore Dreyer film. Correct. I'm sure the producers loved hearing.

1:35:17Griffin Newman:Interesting news is that he was fired one week into shooting. Yep. Essentially because he was like shooting master shots with no coverage. He was an artiste. He was not going to make, you know, whatever the people wanted him to make.

1:35:29David Sims:Hey, this is a business kid. This is when they're starting to say, we don't got time for your fancy stuff.

1:35:35Griffin Newman:So he picks up some odd jobs, writes some dialogue for a Dutch thriller called Obsessions. He does some editing work, street scenes. Does camera work for Woodstock? We're going to get to that, I'm sure. Okay, we're going to get that. Because that's a big one. A huge one. He was the artist and resident of the Film Society Lincoln Center, did some instruction at NYU, and Oliver Stone, one of his students. Michael Wadley who photographed who's that knocking comes to and Thelma's schoonmaker right Wadley is the director of Woodstock so he brings him and Thelma in right to work on that movie it's a significant American film I would say Woodstock right like it's like yeah it's like again one of those things where you're like well sure this is the Woodstock movie with like the movie with this but you're like yeah but like this kind of concert movie didn't exist the movie itself

1:36:32David Sims:is major. It's not just that it was a like a pro shot of a famous concert. Right. Have you seen the Woodstock movie, Ben? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Like, because it's got really experimental, abrasive editing style. And it has like, you know, it's fucking like Scorsese and George Lucas operating cameras and shit. Like, there is this sort of weird thing of, right, because it was made by an NYU professor, it's got the like the future of movies working in all the crew positions influencing the language and everything. And then it also sort of works as like a cultural moment, document, documentary of the phenomenon of what's happening there.

1:37:11David Sims:Like all of the sort of talking head interviews of the concert goers are fascinating.

1:37:15Griffin Newman:Would you have gone to Woodstock? Oh, yeah.

1:37:18David Sims:Sounds like a pain, though. It does. Yeah, but it was just so worth it. Yeah. Like I know my dad, he regrets not going. Ben, I know you feel like, oh man, the concert must have been the exciting part. Like going there, seeing it, watching it. But what if I told you the closeted gay man who rented out his parents' backyard for the festival has a story of his own that might be interesting enough to fill an entire film. What are you talking about? Well, in order to take Woodstock, Demetri Martin had to offer an eye. Might is the strong. Might be enough to fill it. Sure. You couldn't just take it.

1:37:54David Sims:He had to give it to you first. I really did forget all about that. How could you forget? That was the most interesting part of Woodstock. We all wanted to see the movie about Woodstock. Who owned the field? Where the guy doesn't watch any of the performances.

1:38:10Griffin Newman:Scorsese ends up out in LA. Who's That Knocking is being shown there under the title of JR. Roger Corman sees it. So Roger Corman, obviously, at this point, is already a very established figure. Right.

1:38:24David Sims:He had already directed tens of movies. by the 70s you're getting to the point where he focuses more on producing and running his own studio

1:38:31Griffin Newman:the 60s is the height of you know Little Shop of Horrors and Man with the X-Ray Eyes when he's personally directing like you know

1:38:38David Sims:four movies a year

1:38:39Griffin Newman:and he sees it and says I like this would you want to direct a sequel to my film Bloody Mama have you ever seen that film never I have Kelly Winters I know

1:38:48David Sims:I have because one of the two Demi Roger Corman films is only available on a double feature Blu-ray with it. I think... Crazy Mama? Crazy Mama and Bloody Mama, maybe? That would be funny, because two mamas.

1:39:03Griffin Newman:Yeah. Am I right about this? He's like, it's got guns, it's got costumes. Scorsese's like, I'll do it. Corman says, I'll see you in six months, I'll have a script. And I was like, oh, geez, okay. You know what? I'm wrong about that, but I've seen the movie anyway. It's interesting. Mama goes bad. You know, whatever. Instead, you know, so Scorsese's like, six months, ugh, forget it. And instead he does some post-production on a documentary called Medicine Ball Caravan, which is about 154 person bus and truck tour. Bus and truck? Rex Reed?

1:39:34Griffin Newman:What did...

1:39:35David Sims:I can't remember. You know what it... He referred to something as a bus and truck. It's a Spider-Man thing. Did he refer to Spider-Man as a bus and truck Superman? Is that what it is? I can't remember. I think that's what it is. I think it's his review of the first Spider-Man movie.

1:39:55Griffin Newman:Yes. Batman. bus and truck. I considered Spider-Man a bus and truck version of Batman.

1:40:00David Sims:We probably spent seven minutes on that in that episode. I just remember boggling our minds and we couldn't rest until we figured out what bus and truck meant. Rex is the best.

1:40:08Griffin Newman:He's an insane person.

1:40:09David Sims:Which basically means second tier touring performance of a previously Broadway show. Isn't that what it is?

1:40:15Griffin Newman:It's like you take it out of the way. The show's shitty enough you can fit the entire set. You can put it on a bus and a truck. Guys go in the bus, set goes in the truck, here we go.

1:40:23David Sims:Yeah, bus and truck Batman. That's my take on Batman, by the way, if James Gunn is accepting pitches.

1:40:30Griffin Newman:Anyway, Medicine Ball Kevin, there's a Boston Truck Tour spreading the gospel of flower power out in the 60s. You know, it's another kind of like hippie-ish documentary. He says working on that was a huge pain in the ass. Almost kills him. But it gets back to California. He meets Georgie Lucas. He's making THX 113. Georgie Portia. Or he already knows him, but like, you know, George hangs out with George. Francis Coppola is there. Okay? Brian De Palma, he'd already kind of worked with in New York a little bit.

1:40:56David Sims:Sounds like a group of brats.

1:40:58Griffin Newman:Seriously. We also got to know Steven Spielberg, who is making television shows for Universal. Okay? He's doing a little bit of helping Cassavetes do some sound effects for Minnie and Moskovitz. Hell yeah. That movie rules. It does rule. It does rule.

1:41:12David Sims:I feel like that movie's a little out of circulation. Am I wrong? Is it? I feel like there's been like five years of a certain corner of the internet that's like... Oh, you mean people just aren't talking about it? No, I feel like it's not... available? Maybe it's not. And people are constantly crossing their fingers and hoping Criterion's about to announce it. I watched it not that long ago,

1:41:32Griffin Newman:but I guess it's kind of like must have been on Criterion or something. Right. I don't know. At one point, he needed sound effects for a fight. So, Scorsese just holds Cassavetes while someone punches him and then record it. That sounds like some real Cassavetes stuff. Yeah. Then Roger Corman calls. It's been a few months and says, I have a script. Bloody Mama 2, which is then is Boxcar Bertha.

1:41:54David Sims:His wife, first, there's a demand for Bloody Mama 2, because Bloody Mama has performed well. They start Marty developing that, and then his wife locates a book. The book is called Sister of the Road. And basically sort of Yankee swaps, goes like, what if what we have pegged as untitled Bloody Mama project becomes Boxcar Bertha? This feels like a better way to service the same sort of niche.

1:42:20Griffin Newman:The script does end, as the movie does, with a crucifixion. I had nothing to do with that, says Martin Scorsese. This is actually a revelation. Yep. Because you figure you watch it, you're like, was Marty just like, and he should get crucified again? Right, right. Like, Jesus, my favorite guy. He gets a bunch of$600 ,000, and he's basically told, do what you want, stay under that number. So he throws in some references to the Archers. He throws in some Wizard of Oz, you know, winks.

1:42:45David Sims:The Cinematograph release has, you can watch it with the TCM intros. Yes, it does. As part of a Corman series where Corman was interviewed by Manquits himself. And Corman said that Scorsese was literally the first filmmaker he ever worked with who had storyboards, had storyboarded them himself, and had done the entire movie. Not just all three of those things, but any of them. You know, Corman was like, we're running gun. How do I approach a day? I got to get a close-up of the main actor. Once I'm done with that, I should probably get the other person's close-up. Maybe a shot of the two of them together moving on, right?

1:43:21Griffin Newman:All right, now take your bra off. Right. Don't spend over the budget. Make sure you have a little bit of nudity. Nothing crazy, but, you know, we need some boobs.

1:43:30David Sims:The fascinating thing about Corman, I don't know if you've ever seen him, Ben, because we use him a lot as, like, shorthand for stuff. He is the most kind of, like, square, patrician man. He's like a sitcom dad from, like, Leave It to Beaver. and was just like very much like, well, that's what the kids want to see. You know, like he wasn't Russ Myers where he felt animated by his love of the boobs or the blood or any of these sort of like things. But he was just like very open-minded. You know, he was very like, you got to chase the trends. And the whole classic thing with him was like, here's the exact amount of money you have.

1:44:09David Sims:Here's like the locations. Here are the things that need to be in the movie. what I need on the poster, you know, the title. But like, outside of that, I leave you, you know? He would sort of go like, you got 10 days and$4 to make whatever you want. And he would always say to people, and this is why there's sort of the shorthanded Roger Corman film school that so many people graduated from. He's like, if you make this movie well enough, you'll never have to work with me ever again. You know, you graduate off of me, but this is a way to like get the experience under your belt. And so many people rise out of his ranks.

1:44:42Griffin Newman:Scorsese says the movie's part of like a sort of exploitation genre that starts with Bonnie and Clyde. I was going to say, the outlaws, on the road kind of movie. Yes. The young lovers. He's like, slasher movies are still four or five years off. This is the kind of gory exploitation movie of the moment. And indeed, he did have 500 storyboards. He did that because he didn't want to get fired again. He was afraid of a honeymoon killer situation. Then he shows up with the storyboards and Corman takes a quick look. He's like, do you want to see these? And he's like, no that's fine like whatever you want to do

1:45:14David Sims:he did say in the manquets thing he was like it was the first time a filmmaker ever came to me and I could see the entire movie before it was made that he had so clearly worked it all out and it played but I also imagine he was like you're over prepared throw out 300 of these storyboards you're not going to have time to film them

1:45:34Griffin Newman:that is true they did not have a ton of they shot it in Arkansas he said it still kind of looks like the depression back at that point. 24 days straight shooting. Now you fucking make an A24 movie with that. But back then, that wasn't a lot. Roger, at one point, Corman takes him aside at one point and says, you don't have a chase scene. Audiences do like those. This is a kind of Bonnie and Clyde thing. And so Smarty's like, okay, can I have another day if you want me to shoot a chase scene? And he's like, no, no, no. No. Just figure it out. he's doing some camera movement stuff that I feel like is very proto-Marty he loves to move the camera

1:46:17David Sims:especially the final shootout into the crucifixion or I guess off of the crucifixion feels like a real a true Marty sequence pretty fully realized in my opinion

1:46:29Griffin Newman:film previews at the Pantages Theater the audience loves and applauds Corman comes out smiling Sam Arcoff looks at him and says I gotta tell you it's almost good He's feeling good about himself. No one's going to be able to burst his balloon.

1:46:44David Sims:And Scorsese says, that's pretty good. And he says, I don't get too excited. It's almost good. Almost good. But that's what you want out of the Corman experience, right? Good job, kid.

1:46:53Griffin Newman:Oh, 100%.

1:46:54David Sims:You made your days. You delivered. It plays for an audience. You're moving up the ladder. He shows now, it's to be fair.

1:47:01Griffin Newman:It is Cassavetes. He's shown a rough cut. Two hours. And Cassavetes says, Marty, you just spent your whole life, your whole year of your life making a piece of shit. It's a good picture, but you're better than the people who make this kind of movie.

1:47:16David Sims:That is the part that usually gets left off of the story.

1:47:18Griffin Newman:you have done a fine job with this. You are not going to be an exploitation director. You've got something else in there.

1:47:24David Sims:You're wasting your time. And this is clearly not a movie that matters to you. You know, like, so what? Do you want to be a guy who can deliver for other people? And I think part of that, Scorsese's whole thing, or Casabay's whole thing, excuse me, there's like the infamous radio show where he starts like, is ideating and comes up with the idea for shadows in real time. And it's an extension of him complaining about everything he found frustrating about American filmmaking as an actor, and how he felt like things were too dramatically safe, that they were not, they were limiting actors, you know, that the camera was dictating everything, and stylization and a sort of hollowness and a sentimentality and all of this, right?

1:48:04David Sims:And who's that knocking at my door for all of its failings, its limitations, you know, its roughness, has some of that quality. And, you know, it is a movie that is touching third rails. It is talking about things that aren't talked about. It is depicting unappealing characters, you know, with uncharismatic behavior. Things like this that you're just like, a guy like Cassavetes is going to look at it and go, you actually have shit to say. You're not just here with someone who's going to technically service whatever piece of material. There's clearly stuff you're working through. imagine if this guy could refine what he's saying and then he sees this movie that's like great job who gives a fuck you took some assignment and you did okay are you really gonna get stuck wasting

1:48:49Griffin Newman:your life for 20 years doing that obviously clearly resonate with Scorsese because he's telling the story 60 years later the answer is that the movie is a pretty good exploitation movie but my problem with it has always been like because I think Scorsese's not suited to making this kind of movie, it's not fun. I agree. Like, the really good Corman movies are, like, fun and, like, wacky. Like, you know, have the shaggy energy you kind of want.

1:49:19David Sims:Right. This kind of, like, live fast, die young, leave a pretty corpse, like, you know, like, wanton sort of countercultural thing is so outside of his milieu. He doesn't totally know how to dramatize people who would not be wracked with guilt

1:49:35Griffin Newman:over every one of these decisions. It's so early in his career, and he's right. He hasn't gotten to tell these stories properly yet. It's about Fox Garbertha, played by the great Barbara Hershey, who I love, and of course, he works with, again, in Last Temptation of Christ. Do you work with her any other times?

1:49:53David Sims:It's just that, but she gives him the book when they're filming this movie. That's what starts his obsession with, oh, I gotta make Last Temptation as a film someday. So putting her in that is a real kind of full circle moment. She rolls. We talked about her a lot on Portrait of a Lady because that's her one Oscar nomination. But it is fascinating because we were sort of talking about where she was at in the 90s when she got that nom, when she had had this sort of like second wave of her career relative to what her reputation was at this time, which is she hits the scene as part of this couple with David Carradine.

1:50:27David Sims:They were like flower children. and everyone's like, is this person actually a good actor or is she just like some hippie who keeps giving weird interviews and getting press? There's a few actors like that, I feel like, in that era. But it feels like she really got tagged with this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And sort of became like the hippie version of like Sidney Sweeney or something where they're like, why the fuck are we talking about her? There was like a real anger and animosity towards her. You see like her interviews are like very defensive. Some of the stories are. Her and David Carradine do a Playboy spread when this movie comes out, basically restaging their nude scenes from this film.

1:51:09David Sims:That's people like, why are you showing us your private lives when the movie already exists? they have a child together. She breastfeeds that child, I believe, on The Dick Havits Show. One of the movies she does after this, there's a sequence with a bird that she has to keep catching. And after like 10 takes, she realizes that she's accidentally broken the seagull's neck. And she is so affected by this emotionally that she changes her name professionally to Barbara Seagull. And keeps being like, I must honor this seagull. We had an emotional connection. And his spirit should be remembered and would like get into arguments with producers where they're like, we're not putting Barbara Siegel on the poster.

1:51:54David Sims:That sounds dumb. All this to say, it's this era where it's like she's compelling on screen, but is she just naturally kind of charismatic or is she actually a good actress? And also every time she says stuff, she annoys us. Why is she this hippie lady? It's just interesting to me that this moment is kind of like the ground zero of that. which then by the 80s, she like sort of wins back everyone to like, oh fuck, has she become one of the better American actresses for a couple of years?

1:52:22Griffin Newman:Entity. She's so good.

1:52:24David Sims:She wins back to back Best Actress Awards at Cannes. Is that right? One of the major festivals. She won two consecutive lead actress awards.

1:52:33Griffin Newman:Here I go looking on her IMDb page to answer your question. You are correct. It's Cannes. Yeah. She won Best Actress for Shy People. Yes. The Cannes Chalewski.

1:52:44David Sims:That was the one where people went like, have we been sleeping on Barbara Hershey? Is she actually an interesting actress?

1:52:49Griffin Newman:And then she wins a sort of tie award for the film World Apart with the other women, like the three leads of that film, Jodie May and Linda Moussey, I think her name is. Never seen that film. I have seen Boxcar Brother. Did either of you ever want to be a tramp?

1:53:08David Sims:No, no, Ben, you brought some interesting, you did your own research for this episode. We talked in our mosquito coast,

1:53:14Griffin Newman:episode about living off the grid.

1:53:15David Sims:It's not

1:53:16Griffin Newman:appealing to me. I love the grid.

1:53:17David Sims:I want to live on the Tron grid. Call me Clue. And I'm sure we did that bit in that episode. I don't even remember. Digital Frontier. Right. Biodigital jazz. Well, a younger Ben was quite thrilled by the idea of adventure. You'd pack a bindle? Pack a bindle. Because I have gotten obsessed with Bob Dylan which led me to Woody Guthrie and reading all about his escapades. There's just romance there and yet thinking about taking a shit in the woods, right? Yeah, there you go. You don't add that to the soup. No, that's the part that really scares me off. Yeah, that seems rough. Kind of a deal breaker for me.

1:53:56David Sims:For sure. Yeah. There's not enough AG1 in the world to make that a smooth process. I think we're coming up on two hours. I don't want to spend too much time on this. I think I want to just maybe more shout it out. But I did, in fact, bring a hobo book, which it's called Mostly True, the West's most popular hobo graffiti magazine. It's published by Microcosm Publishing. It's available now on paperback. We'll put a link in the description. It's basically a book that spotlights beloved railroad artists. There was a whole kind of scene and community of people who would ride the rails and would, using chalk, draw these little cartoons as well as leave little messages for other writers.

1:54:40Here's a little diagram. I'm holding up and showing that. The Hobo code. That had different little messages and little secret hidden meanings to these symbols that they would leave for other writers to know.

1:54:58David Sims:I'm just realizing, you've invoked how important Dylan was to you growing up many times, and people may not know that most times we try to throw a Ben's Choice on the schedule, you have thrown out

1:55:11Griffin Newman:Don't look back as an option.

1:55:13David Sims:The Penny Baker. We're obviously not going to get to cover this, but we are going to get to do a fucking Dylan Scorsese episode on Patreon. We're going to let Ben go off on Bob. I'm so excited. Going to go off on Bob.

1:55:26Griffin Newman:Ben's going to talk about Bob. I'm a hobo. But the whole thing with Dylan, obviously, is that Dylan had a relatively normal middle class upbringing in Minnesota. Then he appears and he's like, yeah, I joined the circus when I was a kid. I picked up this way of playing. I'm with. From a cowboy and you live at talk like this. It fucking worked. Totally.

1:55:49David Sims:Can I say it?

1:55:50Griffin Newman:Incredible bit. He was kind of a complete unknown if you think about it. Huh. How would that feel though? So true. Anyway, Boxcar Bertha. Boxcar Bertha. She's a girl. Her dad's plane crashes. Kind of an arresting start to the film.

1:56:05David Sims:I think it's a really good opening and Bernie Casey.

1:56:07Griffin Newman:He doesn't actually crash. Of course, he's abducted by aliens. Later, he will defeat the aliens at the Battle of Independence Day. We all know that. Oh, sure. Because Randy Quay's a crop duster. Yep, yep, yep, yep. Took a second. Got it. You know, that's in that movie. Yes. I remember when I walked out of Independence Day when I was 10. You know, because, you know, they defeat the mothership. Yeah, it's very satisfying. And they say... That's the reason you're still free. Exactly. And they say, like, now send the message to the other ones. And I was saying to my dad, like, what they said, like, make sure you have, like, a spare crop duster weirdo to fly into the fucking ship?

1:56:42Griffin Newman:Like, what's the message they sent? Like, they said, you won't believe it. It was kind of a deus ex machina. Right at the end there, we were out of missiles. But Randy Quaid,

1:56:53David Sims:we didn't even want to give him a ship. He's so crazy. He wasn't even meaning to fly into the ship. He was just trying to get away from the Hollywood bushwhackers. The bushwhackers were after him. The bushwhackers were after him. I had like a Mandela effect. Last time I watched Independence Day, sometime in the last 10 years, I recently rewatched it, hence my bringing it up. And I was like ready for the satisfaction of the Randy Quaid moment. And I was like, what the fuck? I vividly remember there being a shot of him in like an old timey... They filmed that and didn't use it. Correct. Yes, they filmed that.

1:57:23David Sims:But in my mind, I had edited the deleted alternate ending that was deemed too goofy. So then they put him in like a proper fighter jet. I think, yeah, I think it was deemed basically

1:57:32Griffin Newman:like hat on hat on hat, you know, where it's kind of like, don't tell me that like, we've already got all this shit going on. And then he's like, by the way, I'm also in a crop. And his plane's like,

1:57:46David Sims:he's spitting like fucking ever clear into the gas tank. Oh my God.

1:57:52Griffin Newman:Yeah. Oh my God. Anyway, her dad dies. Her dad dies. The depression hits and she starts freight hopping, which I guess is like a cooler version of fucking hitchhiking. It's just freight car comes by. I get in. Can we call out Where's it going? The great Bernie Casey Sure Who I feel Football player? Yes He played for the 49ers I believe

1:58:15David Sims:He often later becomes A very kind of stern stoic figure Go on This movie he gets to sort of be the wild card Sure Which is fun to see young Bernie Casey Please Von Morton

1:58:28Griffin Newman:Who is Like A bank robber who I guess worked with her dad or whatever Like I can't remember And then she hooks up with Big Bill Shelley, played by David Carradine. A striking man. He has one of the most interesting faces ever.

1:58:45David Sims:His slender sort of figure and his face. He's a cool guy. Yeah. Crazy acting dynasty. His father, Ben, appears in the movie as well. Right.

1:58:53Griffin Newman:Of course. John Carradine. He's Sartorius. John Carradine is like your classic. He's in all those monster movies and stuff.

1:59:01David Sims:John Carradine. I mean, this is the crazy thing. I believe Bella... The Cecil B.

1:59:04Griffin Newman:DeMille guy, John Ford guy.

1:59:06David Sims:Did Bela Lugosi only play Dracula one time? Maybe.

1:59:09Griffin Newman:He played Dracula in three different movies.

1:59:13David Sims:Lugosi or Carradine? Carradine. Right. That's what I was going to say. I think Lugosi only ever does the original and then Carradine does most of the, like, Dracula meets movies. Right. Like, Abin Costello meets Frankenstein. It's Carradine is Dracula. Yeah. He was... He spent more time playing Universal's Dracula. I'm excited to watch Dracula. I am too. That's why I'm making this connection point. But it's just funny that that guy takes over. We're going to do it on Patreon.

1:59:39Griffin Newman:We're doing it on Patreon. We're doing it on Patreon. We are doing the commentaries. Don't forget, you must watch Dracula Patreon. Yes, Ben.

1:59:48David Sims:And when you watch the Dracula, you must do this with your heart. I am horny for you, Ben. Yes, he is very horny.

1:59:55Griffin Newman:Come to my castle.

1:59:57David Sims:He wants to have the sex.

1:59:59Griffin Newman:Boxcard Bertha is a flawed film. Yeah, you got Barry, Barry Primus and Bernie Casey as the other members of a kind of a train robbery crew that kind of knocks together. Big Bill is a union organizer, but they start busting up trains. I just want to connect the dots for Ben.

2:00:22David Sims:Ben, my favorite Bernie Casey role and the thing that he looms largest in my mind for doing is he is, of course, the teacher in Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure. who warns them that they will not get a passing grade on the class unless they do the greatest history presentation of all time. Haven't you brought this up before? I brought up that Napoleon in Bill and Ted was of course Ricky Calamari.

2:00:47Griffin Newman:He's also, I believe, he's Felix Leiter in the Never Say Never Again, the sort of off-brand Bond. He's in Spies Like Us.

2:00:58David Sims:Yeah, he's a great actor, but Bernie Casey basically is like the inciting incident in Bill and Ted. He has the stakes and he has a couple of my favorite line deliveries of all time. Really? Because he's reading off to them how insufficient their essay was or their paper was. Oh, yeah. That is funny.

2:01:14Griffin Newman:He is funny in that.

2:01:15David Sims:Right. And he said, so Bill, what you're telling me essentially is that Napoleon was a short, dead dude. Funny. And he also has, it seems to me the only thing you've learned is that Caesar is a, the quote salad dressing dude.

2:01:35Griffin Newman:Oh, that's pretty funny, too.

2:01:36David Sims:I'm the funny shit of all time. Also, the Caesar salad dressing was invented in Mexico. Thank you for saying that.

2:01:43Griffin Newman:Well, this is the bit Bill and Ted don't know what they're talking about. Did you think it was invented by Julius Caesar? Originally? Yes. Bill and Ted are dumb. He was like, veni, vidi, vici. We should cross the Rubicon. Also, I'm thinking like mayo, vinegar, maybe some anchovies. While I'm at it, while we're here. But you got to mash the anchovies up. really fine because they but they

2:02:05David Sims:they dissolve

2:02:05Griffin Newman:when you mash them up

2:02:06David Sims:and that's so nice but yes this movie basically becomes you know a ragtag gang led by a sexy couple

2:02:12Griffin Newman:right isn't it so funny that it's called Boxcar Bertha before I saw this movie when I was a teen and I heard that Martin Scorsese had like a sort of bad movie called Boxcar Bertha I was like is it about like a a big old lady who like drives a train like Boxcar Bertha sounds like a sort of six year old lady with like a frying pan right yeah exactly not like the sexiest you know hoochie gangster he ever did see right like which is what she is she's beguiling

2:02:40David Sims:she is very appealing in this film

2:02:42Griffin Newman:yeah she's a fucking hottie she's a handsome lady she's a handsome lady she's a handsome hippie lady I say is a hippie before hippie right because it's like the 30s or whatever but it has the time imprinted onto it

2:02:58David Sims:yes is bringing yes much like Bonnie and Clyde it's a period film that's bringing the vibes and the feelings of the era in which it is made. Because it's nice to see that they're not passing judgment on her character.

2:03:10Griffin Newman:No. No, I mean... That's what they thought the kids wanted. The Corman movie is right. Yeah, and the Bonnie and Clyde rip-offs are like, yeah, they're free spirits. I was going to say...

2:03:19David Sims:Fuck the bank. I find the 70s Corman films, and especially the ones of this stripe, just they are weirdly comfort food watches for me. There is something to, and I was trying to crack why I find them so appealing and relaxing to watch. There was something to the kind of like post-BBS and Bonnie and Clyde, like, okay, fuck, like Easy Rider's a hit. Bonnie and Clyde's a hit. These kids want weird shit. They don't want morals and ethics in their movies, right? Is everything sort of like a political statement or is it just about like a vibe and a feeling? And so a guy like Horman, whose job is just deliver things into like proven genres.

2:04:00David Sims:The genre that he's trying to emulate now is like, I don't know, like actors having interesting moments, you know, like energy bouncing off each other, doing some shit, you know, like it doesn't have to lean too hard into genre plot mechanics. And you have these filmmakers who most of whom like rose into becoming their own people who had a solid understanding of craft. And then they're just kind of like accidentally very interesting vibe hangout movies.

2:04:30Griffin Newman:Yeah.

2:04:31David Sims:This has some,

2:04:32Griffin Newman:this has some vibes.

2:04:33David Sims:I find the air of these films very, very comforting. Yeah. Yeah. Comforting? This is what I'm saying. It's like a weird, like... Yeah, I don't find this comforting. It's not that I find the story of the film or the emotions comforting. I like the style of filmmaking. I like hobos. Yeah.

2:04:50Griffin Newman:Well, we know you like hobos and you would want to be a hobo and follow the hobo code. Yes, make the symbols. I love rail culture. But they are mostly bank robbers. Well, that's the thing. Right. They're not really just like, hey, wherever I lay my hat, that's my home. They're more like, give me your money, I have a gun. They start out with good intentions. Sure. They're trying to go against the corrupt railroad owner. Yeah, you've got H. Buckram Sartorius, played by John Carradine. That's the John Carradine character. The mean railway boss.

2:05:21David Sims:A phenomenon I love when close relatives are in the same movie not playing relatives.

2:05:27Griffin Newman:Sure, but they are playing, you know, opposite figures.

2:05:30David Sims:Yes.

2:05:30Griffin Newman:Which is exciting.

2:05:31David Sims:But not father and son.

2:05:33Griffin Newman:No, he's got, you know, he's got a tie and a big beard, a mustache or whatever. And he's mean. Yeah, he's a grumpy old man. And yeah, I mean, what happens in this movie? He ends up in a chain gang. They get arrested. Yeah, they get arrested. Bill and Vaughn go to the chain gang.

2:05:48David Sims:Bertha becomes a woman of the night.

2:05:50Griffin Newman:Bertha is lured into, yes, into being a boss.

2:05:52David Sims:And in fact, a character refers to her as a hua.

2:05:55Griffin Newman:This is true. Yes. This is true. And it kind of goes on for a bit. And I'm kind of like, you know, watching it. But I'm just like, I'm down with this hangout. And then she runs into Vaughn at a bar. And he's like, Bill has broken out of jail. And she goes back to Bill. Right. Yeah. And of course, that ends in him being crucified against a train car. Bill seems pretty broken. he's aged a lot yeah they fuck a lot as well in like the hay yes oh yeah I was gonna ask you guys it's a lot of fucking first time you had sex on a bale of hay

2:06:31David Sims:yeah I just wasn't ready for a mattress I rented a hotel room then I said hold on I'll be back in one second went around the box to the bodega said where's your hay do you have straw aisle three

2:06:41Griffin Newman:laid it out gingerly on the bed I have obviously been to like events where you sit on a bale of hay with some candles right you know like have you done that not too close to the hay you know you ever been to like an event where you're sitting on a bale of hay. Like a hoot nanny? Yeah, your classic hoot nanny. Haunted hay. I went to a couple weddings that were kind of outdoor, kind of farmy weddings where it's like, hey, we're just putting down some bales. And every time you sit in the bale of hay, you're like, you know, chairs rock. Yeah, chairs are really good. One of the better inventions. A little itchy.

2:07:10Griffin Newman:Yeah, you know what? Just because this is a square doesn't really mean it should be sat upon. We just ordered new chairs for the office.

2:07:16David Sims:Yeah. And I'm so fucking excited. When are they coming? Soon. All right, fine. We've had the same chairs for years, which we've inherited, and we just suddenly were like, what if we got new chairs?

2:07:26Griffin Newman:What if we got, like, fucking nice chairs? Now, of course, Griffin briefly suggested we get, like, the emperor's chair.

2:07:30David Sims:I want to be really clear about this.

2:07:32Griffin Newman:Oh, he's so mad that I brought this up. He's mad.

2:07:35David Sims:He's mad. He's mad. I'm not mad. I just don't like the framing of the story, which is after we all agreed on getting chairs that are actually comfortable and won't hurt our backs, I, as a self-owned said, I want you all to know that I considered recommending these. It was after agreeing. It was made by some company that's called Bob's Ripoff of Nerds. It's called Regal Robot and they have an official license with Lucasfilm. This is a high quality product. And I at no point tried to sway the vote. I had already signed off on the grown up chairs. Now I'm looking at the other shit you can get. I'm pretty sure that Marie I think said something like how about we get three nice chairs and one stupid chair for Griffin and this is what I don't like is acting like you're the one who put it in the chat

2:08:26Griffin Newman:as a cell phone I said I was going to you're cell phoning and you're like oh no I'm being owned

2:08:32David Sims:I just I want credit for framing myself as the joke rather than acting like I did something earnestly

2:08:40Griffin Newman:it's just funny that you showed us that shit because I done the fucking $1 ,600.

2:08:48David Sims:Real crass people have to work on that. You think the emperor is sitting on bullshit? It's a high quality chair. Okay. Anything else about Boxcar Bertha we want to discuss?

2:09:00Griffin Newman:It's just crazy that she's like, anyway, what's up with you? And he's like, I don't know. And then they're like, crucify this man. Well, I would say, and this is something that you see with stories from this era. it's crazy how Americans were so anti-communist that like essentially if you were an Amtrak employee you could just merc people and get away with it it's a wild time yeah it's crazy to me

2:09:30David Sims:yeah no I mean I just like I like these movies I felt the same way watching the the Demi Cormans and when Cormans sort of swings later this decade more in the 80s into more creature features and Star Wars ripoffs. I find those movies compelling in a different way. But this moment of him trying to figure out how to replicate the youth picture and the rebel picture, the new Hollywood shit, I just find the weird middle ground of Corman doing that with a limitation on budget and developing filmmakers. And I think there's just some weird energy that comes out of those movies. So I find this compelling to watch.

2:10:09David Sims:It's not a great movie. As Casabay said, he... He did the job well. He sort of. He delivered a movie that cuts together.

2:10:18Griffin Newman:That is true. I mean, there's no question that, right, like it's a functional movie and it's got some cool stuff and all that.

2:10:25David Sims:But you can feel the lack of understanding of the characters and personal investment.

2:10:30Griffin Newman:And I just feel like junkier might be better. Yeah. Like it's just one of those things where like, right, the artiness almost gets in the way of a good time. And Scorsese can go junky, but this isn't the type of...

2:10:41David Sims:Yeah, not really. He doesn't know how to push this to the more expressionistic limits,

2:10:47Griffin Newman:if that makes sense. It's the debate over Shutter Island all those years later, I feel like, where some people are kind of like, this is kind of junky. And I'm like, well, that's the point. And that's some of the stuff he's inspired by. But he has such a prestigy sheen at that point. And he's such a gifted filmmaker that people are like, I can't see past that. So the junkiness clashes with it. It doesn't work. that's not a problem I have there but I remember that coming up in Shutter Island or even like Wolf of Wall Street or whatever

2:11:17David Sims:also I think there's some stuff in Shutter Island we'll talk about it

2:11:21Griffin Newman:we'll talk about it I'm gonna save those

2:11:22David Sims:thoughts for four and a half months from now

2:11:24Griffin Newman:can't wait for that so as not to repeat

2:11:26David Sims:myself yeah that's one of your favorites

2:11:27Griffin Newman:I love that one yeah I love all his movies except for Boxcar Bertha which is just okay do you put it dead last no I put yes I put it dead last I mean not to spoil my list but I do have a dead last yeah sorry

2:11:40David Sims:I'm more engaged by Who's That Knocking?

2:11:44Griffin Newman:Yes, I would have Who's That Knocking above it just as, right, a little bit more like this is the real Scorsese here even if it's primal clay or whatever. So, The Box Office though, this film comes out in June, middle of June 1972. It's number one at The Box Office. Prime summer release, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it was that Disclosure Day spot. Number one at The Box Office is the film that's going to win Best Picture of 1972. French Connection? No. Is that the year before?

2:12:14David Sims:I believe so. Okay, so 72 would be The Godfather? That's the one. Interesting that these are coming out the same time. So Francis was his mentor. He's met Francis.

2:12:23Griffin Newman:Obviously, Francis Wright got started making movies earlier. Francis is the big brother. Hey, Francis, what'd you think of Boxcar Bertha? He's like, oh, yeah, yeah, not bad. What do you think of The Godfather?

2:12:32David Sims:I'm too busy. Literally making The Godfather. You like that? Yeah. And also, it's not like The Godfather, which was like well respected at the time.

2:12:41Griffin Newman:No, it was like the most financially successful film ever made. It was right out the gate,

2:12:45David Sims:the widest theatrical release of all time and it immediately exploded at the box office. And yet look at where they're at now. Comparatively. Making films of equal quality. Yeah. Pillars of the Flower Moon and Megalopolis. Ben, you sound like someone who hasn't lopped it off yet when you make a comment like that. Oh, I've lopped. You've lopped? I certainly have. But you haven't seen the new... What does he keep calling it? I have my impression it doesn't happen. He's like, I'm working on a new Wilder cut. I feel like what I released theatrically was a little too restrained and reserved. Jim's dad's in it.

2:13:17David Sims:Yeah, unrated and out of control. He said he's working on a new cut. I hope there's so much more Megalon in it. Yeah, they need more.

2:13:23Griffin Newman:I need more explanations there. Absolutely. Or what if he was just like, I got an MGM original series greenlit. I don't know. They'll greenlight anything. Like, you know what I mean? Megalopolis the show. I would love it. What's the reporter's name? I don't remember the names. The only ones I remember are ShamWow. ShamWow.

2:13:41David Sims:Oh, yeah. Wow Platinum. Oh, wow Platinum. ShamWow is pretty close. No, but it's funny that you bring that up, Ben. Of course I remember Wow Platinum. Because the character's name is Wow Platinum. And on the Doughboys podcast, we're friends with the Doughboys, right? The great podcast. On their podcast, they say the word wow a lot. That's one of their most frequently uttered words. And also the Platinum Play Club is their highest honor that they bestow upon chains. and so when I was watching the movie and they keep saying wow platinum I was asking myself is Coppola actually secretly a Doughboys fan which would actually it would make sense because they're Coppola goofballs

2:14:17Griffin Newman:you almost lost it there I didn't

2:14:19David Sims:I could feel you kind of like I didn't I had it I was so focused number two

2:14:24Griffin Newman:at the box office is an animated film that's for grownups is it Fritz the Cat again? yes Fritz the Cat didn't that just come up in a box office game? I don't know. I think it's a... I think a different back she did, but we've definitely talked about it before. I think it was a Fritz the Cat double feature. That might be true. That might be true. Yes. Number three at the box. Have you seen Fritz the Cat? No. It's kind of a Benny movie in a way.

2:14:47David Sims:I think it was still in the box office for Mean Streets re-released with something else. I think you're right. We'll see if that happens next week. Spoiler.

2:14:54Griffin Newman:Yeah. Number three at the box office is, I assume, what had to be a filmed version. Yes, a theatrical release of a very famously risque theatrical review. It's a... What? It was... You may not know what this is, but it was like a British theater review. Okay. Review like R-E-V-U-E-V. That had sketches on sex-related topics. Ooh! That was like kind of a Broadway sensation in the late 60s because it had total nudity. And jokes? jokes and can you believe it jokes that sounds pretty good uh and a filmed version of it was shown uh in theaters on 1972 but many cities banned the screen like the secret policemen

2:15:43David Sims:all but it's like something like that but that's an arty movie right it's more uh what what what is this called it's called oh calcutta oh i know the name i did not know that's what it was.

2:15:57Griffin Newman:It's still the eighth longest running Broadway show ever. I actually... And it's been just, you know, there's stuff like Chicago. I think that's awesome. It ran for 6 ,000 shows. Good. You know, for like 15 years. Bring it back. Yeah, maybe bring it back. In Britain, there was a thing called Puppetry of the Penis. Oh, yeah. Where it was one of those things where it was like at a certain point, you know, ran for years. That crossed over, my friend. I know, but it never took on here like it did in Britain, I feel like. It didn't set the world on fire. It was big here. and they did an HBO special

2:16:27David Sims:yes do you know what that show was about Ben yes I do two gentlemen walked on stage explain it to the listeners who may not and they would puppeteer their penis it's not like a play that has a clever title it was two guys being like here's how you make your penis and balls look like a burger would they speak yeah they'd explain they'd be like and here a goose but the characters don't they're not characters the guys come out the goose doesn't talk no I don't think so does the penis have any dialogue in that show

2:17:02Griffin Newman:I never saw puppetry of the penis I didn't either I did see like there was like the fuck it was like the Shakespeare one not the improvised one but there was like you know Britain would just have these long running things where people's dicks did Shakespeare no there was no dicks but like the ridiculous Shakespeare company and it would just be like in some little theater, I guess, and would just run for 20 years of people just doing puns and shit. They had it figured out. Yeah, they had it figured out. Number four at the box office is a disaster film. It's plane-centered.

2:17:35David Sims:Is it airport? No. It's prior to that.

2:17:39Griffin Newman:Maybe. It is. It's plane-centered. No, the first airport is 1970. So this is two years later. And it's not an airport sequel, so it's an airport rip-off. Well, it's a set on a plane, I think rather than on in an airport. Interesting. It stars Charlton Heston. It's not Earthquake, is it? No. It's a little lesser known one. I don't really know this movie. I can tell you that it was directed by John Gillerman. Uh-huh. Gillerman. Yeah. Who directed King Kong, you know, the King Kong movie.

2:18:10David Sims:And did he direct one of the Planet of the Apes sequel? Or no, he directed Shaft in Africa?

2:18:16Griffin Newman:Not seeing that one. Don't. Yes. No, he did. There we go There it is Um This isn't What's it called? Charleston Heston James Brolin The film is Skyjacked

2:18:27David Sims:It's a good title

2:18:29Griffin Newman:Pretty good title Pretty good title Uh And number five At the box office Is A film Directed by And starring Sidney Poitier Directed by And starring And starring Hmm

2:18:42David Sims:It is a western Okay

2:18:44Griffin Newman:Oh Oh

2:18:45David Sims:What's it called? What's this movie called?

2:18:48Griffin Newman:Harry Belafonte Yeah Another star.

2:18:50David Sims:Yeah. Is the title their names? Yes. You've got to just tell me. I'm not going to pull it.

2:18:54Griffin Newman:Buck and the Preacher. There we go. Ruby Dee is also in this film. Yep. I think kind of a, you know. I've always wanted to say it. It's not like a masterpiece, but like, you know, an important movie in both Poitiers kind of like emerging, like, you know, it's like his first like kind of good movie that he directed. Yeah. It's his first movie that he directed. There you go. Yeah. And like a revisionist Western black character is very interesting.

2:19:16David Sims:David, I now ask you, can you guess the top five highest grossing films of 1972? Okay. Number one, you were already called. They got it. Of course. $86 million in domestic rentals that year. It was the highest grossing film of all time, of course, until Jaws broke 100. Right. Just a couple years later. Number two. Cabaret? Cabaret is down at number six. But it wasn't. Made a robust 20. But this is Godfather 86, the number two movie, 42.

2:19:44Griffin Newman:Godfather.

2:19:44David Sims:But I mean, yeah. That Godfather gross. Made 42 million. It's a big, big disaster movie. Disaster movie.

2:19:50Griffin Newman:Okay.

2:19:51David Sims:Is there a earthquake? It's one of the biggest ones. Okay.

2:19:53Griffin Newman:Poseidon Adventure.

2:19:54David Sims:Correct. Yes. Yeah. Okay. Number three. It is a comedy. And it's a comedy starring kind of a local New York act. It's weird. They sold this many tickets in New York alone. Correct. How was that big a hit? It's the number three movie. That's amazing. $28 million.

2:20:13Griffin Newman:Okay.

2:20:13David Sims:All right. Great movie. Yeah. Very fun. Number three, four, and five are all films from the fine folks at Warner Brothers. So number four is a Warner Brothers. It is... It's a very new Hollywood version of a revenge film. It's a real movie of its moment, movie of its time. I wonder if this movie... It was such a reference point, and I wonder if it's a thing that's a little bit lost now. But it's a big movie. Big movie. It's not like Rolling Stones. It's a shorthand movie. It's a... Oh, Deliverance. Correct.

2:20:45Griffin Newman:That movie's a masterpiece. I love that movie. Yeah, but do you agree with me that it feels a little... Ah, sure. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, whatever. The scandalousness of it is a little lesser now. But Deliverance rocks. I love Deliverance.

2:20:56David Sims:But basically created like 30 years of punchlines and bad jokes. The number five movie of 1972 is a Western picture. It's not Buck and the Preacher.

2:21:08Griffin Newman:Western in 72? Yep. Okay. Did Clint have a movie then?

2:21:14David Sims:revisionist you could say revisionist he says a neo maybe certainly a neo a new Hollywood western it was a film that famously the studio did not believe in I believe it had sat on a shelf for two years and then became a very big hit it's okay it's not like

2:21:29Griffin Newman:Pat Garrett Billy the Kid no it's not like High Plains Drifter it's not a Clint

2:21:33David Sims:no revisionist it's not on a shelf revisionist is the right way to put it it definitely doesn't feel like a conventional western I don't know it's a big director and a big star will work together many, many times. And I believe this isn't even their first film together. But it's a milestone film for both of them. I think it helps kind of make their careers. It's a big hit.

2:21:54Griffin Newman:Oh, it's the GIF movie. Jeremiah Johnson. Jeremiah Johnson. The King of the Nod himself.

2:22:01David Sims:Cabaret is number six. Deep Throat is number seven. Open wide. She's got a deep throat. The Getaway is number eight. Good movie. Number nine is Brother of the Wind. Never heard of it. It's an independent film. A mountain man saves four wolf cubs after their mother dies. We took some pictures of animals for you. Truly. Yeah. It's Wikipedia entry is two sentences long. There's like nothing about this movie. It was released by Sun International. Number 10 was Lady Sings the Blues.

2:22:28Griffin Newman:Oh, you know, I've never seen that. I never have either. I remember my mom just talking about that movie, though, where she was like, we all thought Diana Ross couldn't pull it off. And then she did. Okay, I have a game for you. Do you guys want to guess the most popular drugs of 1972? Absolutely. So I got marijuana. Marijuana.

2:22:45David Sims:Coming in at number one. Okay. Fuck. That's tiki-iki. Sheesh. Devil's lettuce. Where does the jazz signal?

2:22:57Griffin Newman:I guess acid is getting pretty hot. Acid's on there. Do you have a list? You're looking at a screen. It's LSD.

2:23:03David Sims:Are we counting? Yeah, it's a cell section. What about like over-the-counter drugs? of this time. Oh, like lewds? Quaaludes? Bingo. Okay. But they're not counting things like aspirin, right? We're talking like mind expanders. It's a hard one. On your liver. Yeah, okay. Is cocaine, has it cracked the tent at this point? Yeah, cocaine's coming up. Cocaine's sort of, right,

2:23:24Griffin Newman:sort of the doors of drugs then. It's just entered the scene.

2:23:29David Sims:They've taken it out of soda and they're putting it into little baggies and it's about to have

2:23:33Griffin Newman:a very successful rebrand. It's had a lot of names. You know, we smoked it in dens. we injected in our bloodstream. Okay. Heroin. Show me heroin.

2:23:44David Sims:What number is heroin? Give us the numbers on these. It doesn't have like a top to bottom. Valium? Yeah. How many of the 10 have we gotten so far? I didn't specify 10. Okay. Missing anything? David looks so relaxed. He's loving this game. You're basically just missing one last one. You've hit all the magic mushrooms. There's one big one. No, they're not kind of that. What was like a biker, truck driver? Oh, Speed? Bingo. Okay. Just fucking straight up amphetamines. Amphetamines, baby. They didn't have five-hour energy yet. You needed to just... Just another thing you could just buy over the counter.

2:24:25David Sims:Yeah. Well, right, because cocaine used to be in Coca-Cola, but Speed used to be in Sprite. Isn't that right? I think that's made up. That's me making that attempt at a joke. That's good stuff. Love it.

2:24:35Griffin Newman:Yeah, so Boxcar Bertha, you know, and who's that knocking? The pieces are there. It's all very interesting. But next week, we will talk about Mean Streets and I would say, it's just a bit of a jump up. I think it's a good movie. But I mean, it's just a bit of a jump up. It's a bit of a jump up. I prefer it. It's just funny how Scorsese's like, yeah, I'm working things out. And I'm like, you made Mean Streets one year later.

2:24:57David Sims:That's the second first film thing where you're just like, where the fuck did this come from?

2:25:01Griffin Newman:And obviously, you watch Who's That Knocking? You're like, okay, sure. I see the building block. How long does it take him? seven movies before he figures it out. And then it's like, no, I had it all actually. Yeah. You know,

2:25:10David Sims:yeah.

2:25:10Griffin Newman:Um, and that episode is out next week on blank check with Miriam Bale,

2:25:15David Sims:the great Miriam Bale returning after eight years, eight years, eight long years, not since basic instinct, uh, but tune in for that. And over on Patreon, we're investigating the umbrella corporation currently. I think we are. Yeah. So drops on August nine.

2:25:33Griffin Newman:Yeah. And we started that August first. So yeah, we just, uh, Just entered the Resident Evil. But we'll be doing our Scorsese Shorts episode very soon. And also, you can always refer to our social media, check out our Instagram, or subscribe to our newsletter on Stubstack, where we always have a release schedule listed and up to date.

2:25:53David Sims:But let's also just clarify this, because we had talked it out a little bit in the March Madness update and preview episodes. We are going to just do Scorsese straight through. There is a concentration of it seems like probably enough new releases towards the end of this year that that's going to occupy the spot of where we previously thrown out the idea of doing a palate cleanser. We're not fucking doing that shit. We're not fucking doing it. So every narrative scripted film happening on main feed. Oh, there's stuff on Patreon. Running chronologically save for new releases. And March Madness next year is probably going to be a bunch of shorties, guys.

2:26:30David Sims:It's going to be. Oh, let's commit to it right now. Shorties. shorties only single under 10 exactly single digies Walt Becker finally maybe is going to have his chance DeVito baby DeVito I mean the short king yeah literally yeah it's actually do we fucking do we put Beatty up in front of the firing squad again for shorties or is that rude he needed to be humbled a little bit that guy's had a lot of success exactly so full of himself but yes tune in for many many months of Marty both here and on our Patreon. We'll be covering a lot of things like the music docs and the shorts and such.

2:27:08Griffin Newman:I'm going to go to a Mets game now. I assume that by the time this post in August, the Mets have turned everything around and are doing so good.

2:27:16David Sims:Yeah, I've heard things are bad. Yeah, we've lost 12 games in a row. What do you want from me? I put my brother and his friend Gabe on a group text with John Fennessy so they can commiserate about the Mets together.

2:27:27Griffin Newman:I'm also on a group text with Sean Fennessy about the Mets.

2:27:30David Sims:I just ask that they not remove me. So even though I don't understand what they're talking about. I can see their emotional meltdowns and things have not been good in that tax group.

2:27:37Griffin Newman:I would say that I have a very different relationship to sports fandom than that.

2:27:41David Sims:But yes, we are objectively a bad baseball team currently.

2:27:45Griffin Newman:Maybe we'll be good someday.

2:27:46David Sims:Do you want to say here that by the time this episode comes out?

2:27:50Griffin Newman:Yeah, of course. Bo Bichette is raking by this point. I assume, God, anything I say now, it's just like those guys will all like fall into pits like that Simpsons episode. No, we're putting it on the board.

2:28:00David Sims:Bo Bichette is raking. I definitely get what that means. Tune in next week for Mean Streets. Yes. And as always. And as always. Nine more months of this. Nine more months of hearing people say hoo-wah.

2:28:18Blank Check with Griffin and David is hosted by Griffin Newman and David Sims. Our executive producer is me, Ben Hosley. Our creative producer is Marie Barty Salinas. And our associate producer is AJ McKeon. This show is mixed and edited by AJ McKeon and Alan Smithy Research by J.J. Birch Our theme song is by Lane Montgomery in the Great American Novel With additional music by Alex Mitchell Artwork by Joe Bowen, Ollie Moss, and Pat Reynolds Our production assistant is Minnick Special thanks to David Cho, Jordan Fish, and Nate Patterson for their production help Head over to BlankCheckPod.com for links to all of the real nerdy shit Join our Patreon, Blank Check Special Features, for exclusive franchise commentaries and bonus episodes.

2:29:03Follow us on social at Blank Check Pod. Subscribe to our weekly newsletter, Checkbook, on Substack. This podcast is created and produced by Blank Check Productions.

2:29:26who decides to fight the flames alone. The moment when nature, institutions, and technology fail at the exact same time. That's All Systems Down, a new Snap Judgment miniseries from KQED. Tap to listen now.