The Battle For The Soul Of The Nation | Hannah Spencer | Zack Polanski

0:00So far on this podcast, we've had a range of voices from campaigners to celebrities to workers themselves. Noticeably, one group of people we haven't had other than myself, a Green Party of England and Wales politicians. And that's been really purposeful. It's because we know so many people listen to this show. In fact, we're getting a million plays a month. And lots of those, I have no doubt, are Green Party members. And lots aren't Green Party members. I don't know why you're not in the Green Party yet, but I'm still really glad you're listening. Thank you. I'm going to level with you. I'm doing everything I can right now to make sure the Green Party win in Gorton and Denton and stop reform.

0:35and with a popular podcast it would be wild to not platform the candidate and I really do believe that Hannah is so amazing that even if she wasn't a Green Party politician she'd be a politician that you'd all want to hear from right now. I do want to note though that in this conversation I'm going to talk to her as I would any campaigner. I'm going to ask her questions about herself and her campaign. So here's my colleague and very good friend Hannah Spencer.

1:05Zach, I'm so excited about this year. EcoTalk has new land coming for rewilding and habitat restoration. And we're bringing back beavers. Any week now, yes, I'm also going to start live streaming the garden birds from my home. And all of this happens because EcoTalk has customers. That's people who pay their mobile phone bills to us. They make a call, they send a text or they just surf the net and British wildlife gets a boost. that's it no shouting just go to ecotalk.co.uk slash bold politics to find out more

1:51so hannah the first green party of england and wales politician we've had on the podcast i just want to be very grand about that we're actually just mates so this feels ridiculous let's i have come to bring you on to grill you so the first thing i want to know is what is your favorite moment from cory of all time i knew this question was going to get you i was joking about being a i knew i was going to get grilled honestly so many i could think of but i think the hello sinead bit this is where my cory knowledge okay probably that hello sinead but afterwards i'm gonna regret that and i'm gonna think of all the bits yeah that is actually a really hard question that's all right for anyone who's tuned in and is like what's happened to Bob Politics I guess the question I should ask you is how are you feeling and how's the campaign going it's like it's unbelievable thank you so much for having me on here um it's just absolutely bananas I can't believe how much my life has changed in the last couple of weeks but I also can't believe how much like rallying around everyone's doing I keep saying I can't believe it but then I look at I look when there's hundreds of people in the park and I think I can believe it I can believe that all of these people care about the communities that we live in so I'm sort of shocked but not shocked at the same time but at the minute it's just it's challenging and it's different but it's unbelievably exciting.

3:07It's been really interesting watching you take it like a duck to water like as we're recording we've just come from a park a muddy park where there was maybe 400-500 people there all chanting your name all so excited to see you it really feels like the community alongside other people who have who have come from all over the country how does that feel like how surreal is it it is it is surreal but I think there's a lot of us that do things where we're like this is this is kind of what life is like a lot of us that do jobs where you're often kind of in the unknown and like it's unlike anything I've ever done before but I think a lot of us have more skills than we realize for doing stuff like this and I think it's a really natural thing for anyone to assume like oh I could never do that I could never be a politician I don't know about politics I don't have this background it's like but all the skills that you get in life are the exact skills that you need from doing this like this is a leap into the unknown but so was me training to be a plumber so was when I trained to be a gas engineer so is every time I go to a boiler that I've never seen before in my life like you just see what's in front of you think I've got to find a way to do this wait so you're actually a plumber

4:14I'm gonna set the record straight here and say yes I am a plumber and in fact I actually saw yesterday one of my plumbing tutors at college who when we were out and about came over and was like like said hello and stuff and I thought this is living proof that yes I am a plumber. I love that and there's an Instagram post of where you went into the plastering college uh and what your classmates colleagues done for you. Yeah so I'd had the day off really kindly from my college tutor um and yeah they'd made a sign out of a scrap of plasterboard and it said Ministry of Plumbing and plastering Hannah Spencer MP.

4:49And they were all so proud of it. And I had a big picture next to me and I was just smiling in such a cheesy way. And it was really nice because there is a lot of shit about me online. A lot of it's very misogynistic, very sexist. The idea that a woman couldn't possibly do a job like this is still commonly held by some people, not the majority of people, but a very vocal minority. And so to go into this group of men who are really similar to me, like from a similar background and just be accepted by them and not only accepted but encouraged as well and for them just to be like you've got this you're absolutely going to smash it just yeah it just made my heart burst I love that when did you first become political because I've often heard you say similar to me you weren't political all your life was there a moment where you thought I need to get involved so there was definitely a moment but there was a lot of moments leading up to it which I think is the case for a lot of people and for me the the big moment was during Covid um because it was like everything was in front of my eyes about how quickly we were seeing inequality, which was already a problem, get so much bigger so quickly.

5:51The very richest in society were doing incredibly well out of an emergency. And the people who were making the rules were the ones who were breaking the rules. But I also saw this humanity from all the rest of us where we realised we had to help each other out and we didn't do everything perfectly and we didn't do everything right all the time, but we did really try and look after each other. And so I just saw this split where I was like, This is what most of us are like. And yet we're being ruled by people who aren't the same as us, who are only there to look after themselves. But leading up to that, a lot of that was when I lived in the constituency of Gerson and Denton.

6:29I didn't know it at the time, but I was becoming political without really knowing what that meant. And there was a lot of different things that were happening in my life, a different set of challenges that a lot of us have. And again, I just started to question things. I questioned why our high streets are full of bookies and other areas don't have any. I questioned why people around me weren't very politically engaged. And I just thought it's because this system is full of people who don't look and sound like us. And it's just time that we change that. I guess I don't want to sugarcoat it. What have been the biggest challenges to kind of being a woman who's not been that involved in politics suddenly getting involved?

7:04um I think there can be a lot of I guess snobbery that if you don't if you don't understand things that's a bad thing but you don't understand things until you actually do it so when I got elected as a counsellor even though like before I was elected like I started going to council meetings I started learning things it wasn't until I was actually elected that I actually learned everything but that's possible to do that I don't think I don't think it's a bad thing that you you don't need to that you don't have that background and that knowledge and people can be really funny about you not having been to university or got um a degree because i think at the moment in parliament especially there's i think 90 percent of mps have at least one degree so i think that is a bit of a challenge challenging the idea that those of us who didn't carry on with academic education like we're not thick and we're not stupid because i do think that is still held a little bit and I think I want to like talk about that a lot of us like a lot of things I didn't know till I got older like I didn't I didn't know about a lot of really important things because really for me like I stopped learning academically or learning about big things at school when I was like 12 or 13 like my education in that respect kind of finished and I was sort of like a lot of people who are from like the trades or you feel like you're kind of written off at a very early age and so I want there to be a bit of patience and understanding that some people and I know I was like this like I was really ignorant about a lot of things but I think it's what you do after you realise like I need to learn something more about this and I want there just to be a bit of more kindness and understanding that not everyone knows everything and we're here to kind of show each other the way.

8:45I love that and obviously there's a big jump between joining a party campaigning and then going oh I'm actually going to run for councillor what was it that made you go yeah I'm gonna I'm gonna get involved to to stand and be a representative um so a big a big thing was I had been encouraged by people around me and that's what I I see the importance of doing that now because a lot of people who aren't political or don't feel like they have a space in politics need to be encouraged um and that happened to me definitely and yeah again it was just as soon as I went to a council meeting as soon as I saw what they looked like as soon as I heard the comments that other councils were saying I just thought there needs to be some change like we need to have more people from a wider set of backgrounds in there and that's what made me again in the same way like when I was training to be a plumber and people told me I couldn't do it I was like brilliant you've just given me the motivation to do it now so it was that kind of environment where I think if I feel out of place it's that's a sign that I should be there and I definitely felt that in politics I love that I don't think I've ever had this conversation with you but public speaking I find that's often the thing that freaks people out or particularly I think it's often gendered a lot of women that i meet go i'd love to be a councillor but i'm not sure about speaking up in the council chamber have you always been a natural public speaker or was that something you had to work on or is it hard for you like i yeah i don't know how you feel about that oh sorry is this oh my god stunning do we eat that during or is it oh my god they're water they're so warm

10:15this is where i take a moment in the podcast to say we've just been delivered some sausage rolls some vegan sausage rolls i need to say this this is what i signed up for i want to ask you about before they speak in a second but first i want to tell the story about a time when i came campaigning with you and we filmed a really really important video with jackie i can't remember jackie's oldham i'm sorry i'm sorry i'm sorry and he's an amazing campaigner who's doing this really important um anti-gambling work we filmed an interview with her where she did brilliantly and we did some other work that day uh with the microphone uh interviewing people and then we went to carl's bolton pasties and we filmed a video about carl's pasties and we finished the day and we realized the only content that was usable was for pasties and then we were like that's not a bad thing like carl's is great sorry we were talking about public speaking and then i got distracted by the sausage rolls so how do you feel about public speaking i used to feel quite nervous in in the council and i quite i'd sort of stick to what i was saying because it was i hadn't ever done anything like that before um and i've kind of grown my confidence there um but i had a really exciting like honor and a privilege to be asked to open our green party conference in manchester about a year and a half ago and it was the year of the general election so we'd won like three more MP seats so it was phenomenal and to have it in Manchester like in my hometown was it was amazing anyway but then because I was the candidate in the Greater Manchester Mayoral Campaign that year too um yeah it was just it meant everything and so I was asked to give the speech there and I've never I've never spoken I've only ever spoken really in council which is like 50 people 60 people but I'd never spoken to any any bigger number than that and I think there was like I can't remember how many people were there was there like a thousand I don't yeah it was unreal I'd never written speeches that much before and my speech was like all my thoughts like scribbled out when I was stuck engine off in traffic on the M6 hadn't moved for ages and I was like right I'll have a go at writing this speech and it all just came out and I didn't know how it was going to go down and I did feel really nervous but as soon as I set foot on that stage and I just saw all these people who were there for exactly the same reasons that I was I felt this like enormous sense of pride of what we'd achieved in greater manchester and beyond and the fact that everyone was here like in our home was incredible and it just reminded me that about that power of kind of like connecting with each other and caring about what each other cares about and then since i've had that positive experience like i i do get a bit nervous sometimes like when i'm i'm speaking but broadly i'm like all these people are here because we care about something and it's just an honor to be able to stand up and say how you feel i love how many times in stories you tell there's like an obstacle to overcome and you just get on with it and do it I just think that's it's just really striking already just listening to you in the last bit um when I first met you uh greyhounds tell me about the greyhounds I could talk for hours about this I think we could do a separate greyhound greyhound politics podcast I think you could have your own greyhound series um I remember that day so well when you came up to visit and I was still quite new to the party then and I didn't I didn't know a lot about like different people that were in it I didn't really know anything about you and I still I had this feeling where I was oh my goodness the deputy leaders come in and like and then instantly you just kind of put me at ease and I felt like this is what this this party is about like we might have different roles but there's no hierarchy we're all just kind of mucking in together and yeah that was the day that you met the greyhounds in the morning and we went and had a photo with Graham, Olive and Elsie and this is the bit that I do sometimes get upset about and that might happen but Graham was my first greyhound um who I got when I was living in the constituency of Gorton and Denton and I had all these ideas in my head of like even though I knew about greyhounds I'd be searching for age and I was so excited I knew in my mind I was gonna get a greyhound I was gonna call him Graham but I didn't know who that dog was gonna be and then I got him and I was like wow like this was not what I was expecting like he we joked that he was a dog that really wasn't a dog and it was funny in a lot of ways but it was also really sad in a lot of ways because he'd been so badly mistreated and I I felt quite out of my depth, like despite trying to learn how to look after a dog and a greyhound specifically, like I really had no idea what I was doing.

14:32And it's sort of like later on in my life that I looked back on those years with him and I was like, he was really lost and I was really lost as well. But I didn't know it at the time. Like we were just kind of like in this situation where I had a few really challenging years when I lived there and we were both just kind of finding our place in the world and we lived down the road from Bellevue the Greyhound track which has chorus now which I used to go and campaign at with some amazing people and they were there like week in week out for years um and it just showed me like a few different things like again why why do we live down the road from a Greyhound racing stadium where people go and then end up with like gambling addictions that ruin their lives but it also taught me Graham taught me a lot about acceptance and about like just yeah letting people be who they want to be and living in peace and happiness because whilst he definitely had things that he needed help with he had a lot of things that were just him like he was so unbelievably lazy and it took me a while to realize like once he overcame his fears about leaving the house like he hated leaving the house he hated everything about the outside world he was also incredibly lazy like even by greyhound standards and so there was just stuff that I was like I can't I can't and shouldn't change this like if I can help him live a happy and safe life like that that is everything and I think that about the people I meet where I just think there's almost like a bit of Graham in all of us like we just want to be accepted and we just want to be happy and we just want to be safe and yeah and then I got Elsie um a little bit after that she was the opposite of him she was absolutely gutsy like she just does not give a fuck about anything she just goes out and does her own thing and she she taught me that as well she's like absolutely like when you want to bark bark and just don't yeah don't question anything about who you are then I got Olive and she'd also really had a hard time um and then after that I've since got Will, Judy and Forrest and it's just this greyhound family that keeps getting bigger and bigger and bigger and they make my life so full of joy but they've also really taught me a lot about being patient and kind and understanding.

16:38Yeah. Oh, I do really feel like I could just, yeah. Yeah. I think I'm crying for greyhounds. I'm also crying to get you in parliament with that level of determination is exactly what this country needs, not just for greyhounds, but for every human who's ever felt like, yeah, you're not accepted or you're not a part of stuff. Like, yeah, that's why we do it, isn't it? This is not ideal.

17:10i'm so sorry i'm sorry thank you i've talked a fair bit about being vegan and the animal rights aspect of this uh is obviously something i'm really drawn to i think there's something really interesting though about the gambling aspect we've got lots of labor mps who take donations from gambling companies why is that atrocious and what's gambling doing to people's lives um it's it's almost hard to describe the impact of how much harm gambling causes because a lot of it is unknown like we only know the minimum amount of of harm that is caused to people and it's not just caused to individuals themselves the wider impacts on their friends and family is enormous like and I I have felt that like people that I've known and loved like that have had gambling addictions and I think it's not I don't want to live in a world where these gambling companies like the chief exec of bet 365 i think it was one year where she earned almost 500 million pounds in one year off the back of people's misery but we live in a society where people rely on food banks and we have like bed poverty and people can't buy their school uniforms and if you're someone that develops a gambling addiction because you've been targeted by these companies there's no help really on the nhs like there's there's just no help at all it's the work of charities like incredible charities and organizations that are left to pick up the pieces and it's insidious it's absolutely everywhere and people people sort of you say about greyhound racing like oh it's a very working class like activity and I think like fair enough like 100 years ago when there's nothing else to do on a Friday night I understand why people went and did it but the world has changed so much and now they're places where a lot of the time these greyhound standings are empty they're just streaming racing like all throughout the day into betting shops and those betting shops are in places where often more people are poor or disadvantaged and they're being targeted by betting companies who are just lying in their own pockets and it was it was again it was great how amazing so I was like oh I could write to my councillors I could do and then I realized like how many of them are accepting donations and I thought well obviously whether you believe what I'm saying or not you can't say it because you're being funded and bankrolled by these lobbying companies and again I was like I can't when I looked at which party I would join I did look round like probably from a background that has typically normally voted Labour but I was like I can't have any part in this because it just goes so against my morals and I'm really proud that the Green Party like we don't do that our money is it comes from members like us like and donors who have made their money ethically we're not bankrolled by gambling companies and lobbyists and that that can be applied to everything like fossil fuel companies like all the lobbying that goes on but it's just the gambling like I don't think I don't want to live in a world where like kids are watching football and they're just exposed to gambling adverts in the same way they don't want adults to watch that all the time like I don't think we should have companies whose only aim in life is just to bleed people dry.

19:58Absolutely um on a lighter note back to the greyhounds I think people often think the greyhounds are full of energy but I know whenever I come around to your house there's like five minutes of intense excitement that someone's in the door and then they go back to sleep. Yeah and that's the thing because there's a lot of like misconceptions about them which are understandable because I have them as well and there's a lot of reasons why they're quite hard to home because I think a lot of people think they need exercise and I'm like are you joking like those those greyhounds when I go downstairs at five o 'clock in the morning I've got to turn that light on they look at me like they're about to phone the police like they're so angry at the thought I've dared to wake them up and they do they just they just want like yeah they just want fuss and love and a full belly at night I think that's what all of us want a roof over our head and a full belly um but yeah they are they are very funny and they've all got their own individual traits and they are putting the shifting on these campaigns like they're coming out they're doing half an hour of an action day and then they're going home and spending the rest of the day in bed they were howling this morning they were yeah why are we in this park again and so then you're elected to a council then you become the leader of the green group in the council and and then you start making social media videos which obviously your profile in the last couple of weeks has for some reason noticeably increased but even then it was already starting to build i think lots of people particularly on the left were going oh there's this really interesting person who's doing these videos and you did a video recently about the flags that were being hung up on lampposts and we'll probably insert the sound here of that video because I think it's good for people to hear.

21:23So these flags I'll say this that took effort those flags go for miles they're all evenly spaced they're all the same height and I know from working up a ladder like fitting gutters and boiler sloughs and whatnot like that is not easy and so if you're using your time and you're tools and your practical skills because you want your country back please come and join the rest of us who are actually trying to get our country back come and volunteer at our monthly cleanups come and join the gardening group come and fix the broken fencing that needs repairing come to the community arts center that helps so many people but that always needs volunteers like come and do all of those things that will actually get our country back because if you've got the time the tools and the skills and at the moment you're just putting flags up please give your head a little wobble and then come and join the rest of us who are actually trying to get our country back.

22:17I know that immigration is something you've been very very vocal on why is it so important particularly to have a white working class voice speaking out for a compassionate approach to migration? I think there's so many there's so many reasons why I felt really strongly about immigration and why I think there's been like this massive void that's opened up that has that has meant divisive politicians have been able to step into. And I think because in the North, like I grew up in Bolton and I lived most of my life in Bolton, a town, like a lot of places where you're kind of made to feel like it's a bad thing coming from somewhere like that.

22:53And I've not always been proud about it. I think sometimes I've probably been a bit disparaging about coming from there because I've been made to feel like it's bad to be from a town like Bolton now. I'm the total opposite. Like I'm so proud of my roots, cars, pasties, another shout out. But places like Bolton have been affected much more by austerity than a lot of places. The North was hit much harder by austerity. And we've seen the impacts of immigration and people when they're struggling and they're being fed lies by sections of the media and they see their communities maybe look a bit different.

23:27I think without honest politicians telling the truth, it's easy to believe there is lies. And Bolton did take a higher number often of people with refugee status. and I saw there what happened when companies like Circo and Britannia make absolutely millions out of government contracts but towns like Bolton it's like charities, churches, mosques, community groups who are left to pick up the pieces and at the bottom of all that is communities who feel like something maybe is a bit unfair and people in the system, the immigrants who come here who are not treated like humans and it's always been about showing that white working-class communities like what reform might think we are like we're not we're not racist and I accept that that goes on like I won't deny that that happens but like I'm really proud that I've come from somewhere where I've seen immigration is a really good thing I lived in the constituency which has roots like Irish communities that moved here in the 60s and 70s that shaped like a lot of the culture there like the high street is amazing because it's bustling with all these different cultures and that's a really positive thing and I wouldn't change that for the world but I want to I want to say that for all of those people who who have been made to feel like immigration is the root of all the problems there is another there is another way to think about stuff and it's a way of looking and thinking the NHS is broken not because of immigration it's because it's been underfunded and billionaires are getting richer and richer and I want to just be really proud of the fact that I'm always trying to do better I'm always trying to be more vocal I don't always get stuff right but I want to defend our communities which are full of people from everywhere like like me I always say whether you've lived in greater monster all your life like I have or whether you moved here yesterday like this place is your home you are one of us and I don't want to let anybody try and rip that apart because that is the very fabric of of my home and that's really a threat at the minute I think it is important for white working class communities to stand up and say that because maybe I've not always done a good enough job at saying that I'm learning I'm trying to do better but our struggles with our neighbours may be different in different ways but we struggle together and we stick up for each other and that's what makes me really proud to be from Greater Manchester.

25:45Hey Zach, guess what? EcoTalk has tripled the number of customers that it's got in just the last six months. Now that's got to come down to the fact that when people are paying their mobile phone bills they like helping nature. Of course, they like the service too. They've got the best network coverage in the UK. It's powered by green energy. And when they engage with our customer service, guess what? Well, that's powered by real people. Yes. Martin, Susan, Nemesher have all contacted Trustpilot and said that making that switch was much easier because they were speaking to those real people. And of course, we're very excited because we've got more land.

26:27We're going to be doing more restoration, more rewilding, more replanting. We're going to be making the UK a much better place for wildlife. So why not join us on EcoTalk? Just go to ecotalk.co.uk slash bold politics and we'll see you there.

26:52something i find really refreshing you've done it in this conversation a lot and i hope i do it too which is you've said i don't always get it right or i'm always working on it and learning and improving and it just it really strikes me we don't hear that a lot in politics how has it been to be under such intense scrutiny at the moment in the spotlight but also kind of be learning at the same time yeah it is it is hard because i'm only recently in the last few years like using words like left and right I don't like before you're political and a lot of my friends who are not political like we don't always talk like that but I do think there is a much more of an issue about the left I think people say a lot the left attacking each other more and it stops us coming together and that doesn't mean that you shouldn't be better and you shouldn't challenge each other and say you need to do this but I did feel I was like I'm yeah I'm now sometimes I've been at a point where I thought when I wasn't saying anything my like I didn't have this stress and sometimes it's been I think from angles where people aren't understanding that we're all maybe learning and I want this to be that patience and that understanding because I know how it feels to not know about important issues and it's not because I don't care it's just because I don't know about them and maybe my language isn't always right and I want to do better and I need I need help from people and appreciate when people point it out but then I also think sometimes it can go a bit heavy on how perfect we need to be and I was at a panel on Trom's liberation in Leeds just before Christmas and I sat next to Jenny one of our wonderful counsellors and she she spoke really powerfully about like not letting people get away with stuff they shouldn't like that's there's a really clear line like I said it before about like you know not accepting racism or bigotry or hatred but about just being a bit kinder to each other if we're not quite getting things right because having that environment where people are worried to say something means that often people don't end up saying something at all and I found that really refreshing and it was really empowering because I was like I know I'm going to get stuff wrong but as long as people know I'm really trying to do it from the right place that is that feels really important.

28:56Totally and I want to get on to Gorton and Denton in a second. Just zooming out though, something I really observed, so this was just before you were selected, Gorton and Denton was announced as a by-election. And the media constantly asked me questions about Gaza and Palestine, as if this was suddenly going to become an issue for us now, because the constituency has, I think it's a 30 % Muslim demographic. And the question to me seemed absurd, because our party for a long time has been talking about Gaza and Palestine more widely about international human rights. So this isn't something you've just begun speaking about, you've been speaking about it for a long time.

29:30Why is it so important that any of us with a platform right now speak up for the Palestinians? I think because we can see when one group of people is being targeted and dehumanised and oppressed, that can happen to any group. And I think if our government is so willing to play a part in that, that's a worry for us all because of what it might mean for us. But more than that, it feels like if something is only happening to one person, like that's enough of a reason for us all to stand up. And I really didn't know about Palestine and Gaza. I'm going to be really honest. Like I sometimes felt like these issues are really complex.

30:10Like they go back like so long and then they do. Like the roots of what is happening now, like it's gone back for decades. And sometimes that can be a bit difficult to get your head around. But then I was like, but I see what's in front of me, in front of my own eyes. I see what's happening now. and I know that's a reason to stand up and say something and I've done that like in council I remember that was one of the hard moments I had I feel like yeah I'm probably going to get quite emotional about this as well because I did we had emotion about Palestine and Gaza and we'd got a lot of criticism from other parties about it and people had turned up to um like jeer at us from the upstairs and as I stood up people were hissing at me and I was like and I was I was really scared I was really scared to do it I was like I'm gonna get so much abuse and I've got and then I just thought like the feeling that I've got now of doing this is absolutely nothing compared to the people in Gaza who are going to sleep under a sky of bombs like raining down on them at the hands of the Israeli government and so that was that bit where it's like of course this is difficult for me but it's absolutely nothing in comparison to what other people are suffering and so much is just about doing the right thing and trying to use your voice and trying to use whatever platform you've been given trying to learn a bit more about things and trying to speak out and while we're in depressing subjects and I promise we'll get lighter again in a moment but I want to talk about violence against women and girls because I know this is an issue that's incredibly important to you and rather than me coming up with kind of a faux question why is it important to you or what do you want to say about women and girls yeah I think it's this ties into a lot of the immigration stuff and why I feel quite strongly about it because I've cared about this for as long as I can remember really and again I didn't realise how much this fed into my politics but when I was a bit younger one of our friends was murdered by her boyfriend and I remember the reaction to that then and how a lot of the reaction amongst a lot of us was quite wrong like how we we responded or made us feel like there's a lot of like like victim blaming in that in a way that kind of shaped I think a lot of people how we think about stuff and it's only as I've got older and I've started to question really what happened there um and but i but i don't think you need an experience like that to make you see that violence gender-based violence is a huge issue in this country and no politician seems to be taking it seriously at all and i've met so many victims and survivors of abuse and gender-based violence who need they just need someone to listen to them and need someone to actually start start speaking up when they've got a position to do that um and this i I work in a really male environment and I see so many good men around me who are absolutely wonderful humans but I see the way that we're socialized differently from a really early age and I used to be I used to almost stick to this idea like I'm just the same as these men like we're all and I look back and I'm like we're not the same like we're brought up really differently society shapes us into entirely different people in a way that I don't think it should I see a lot of the men around me really struggle with a lot of emotions and feelings and having to try and support each other like it's an interesting thing I've sort of noticed over the last few years like as as men have absolutely been encouraged to speak to each other and share their feelings but they're not brought up to be able to like help each other and that's really really sad and I think there's just this like when I think about gender-based violence and I think about how the men and boys in our society are being raised it's one of those issues where I think my feminism I realised more recently like it includes everyone who's screwed over by the patriarchy and that's the male colleagues I work with like they're screwed over by it too but I think it comes out in a much more extreme way of violence against women and girls where it is a result of us accepting things in our society that we shouldn't do and not having politicians who care because they're too busy thinking about other things we've seen recently Keir Starmer and Peter Mandelson like two people who it's just powerful men looking after each other but they'll go out kiss down will go out and say like my priority is gender-based violence like I care about like violence against women and girls I think but how can you like when you're surrounded by these people they were doing absolutely appalling things and we need more people from with that lived experience in in positions in parliament because that's the only way that we're going to change things and just coming back to immigration I'm so tired and fed up of being someone who's used to further that hatred against particularly people seeking asylum, but anyone from an immigrant background generally, because it's just the scapegoating that is totally unnecessary.

34:42And the longer we talk about that, the less we talk about the actual causes of violence against women and girls. Yeah, I agree. And it always strikes me how is this not a priority? Like even if women and girls was a small minority of the country, as you said before, actually, in relation to Palestine, like if one person is being injured, we should speak up about it. But actually, this is over 50 percent of the country that this is affecting. and when I think compared to the amount of conversations we have about the small boats which is a tiny thing in the country and obviously people deserve respect and compassion but it's just amazing that this conversation is quite rare.

35:15And that's just where we've been going badly wrong and people, yeah, I probably have faced criticism because it's like, oh, you always talk about this and I'm like, yeah, but three women a week are murdered by a partner or an ex-partner. How can we not talk about that? How is that not, how do we just accept that that happens? if three people a week were dying in a plane crash people would be saying something but why do we just accept that this is just part of and it's that assumption like oh don't worry about like you know you're not going to get murdered or raped by someone on the street and it's like no no one more likely to be faced by someone who's living in my own home like what how is that okay like the sentencing for crimes that are committed if it takes place in the home is lower than outside and we've got a prime minister who's supposedly from a criminal justice background why why is it's not at the top of his radar.

36:00Yeah, really, really well put. And then just before we get to Gorton and Denton, you also ran for mayor of Manchester. I was about to say you didn't win. That sounds a bit brutal, just in case you didn't know. But yeah, you gave Andy Burnham a very good run. And it's just something kind of deeply poetic about the fact that Andy Burnham later comes into this conversation. Something I really remember, though, during that campaign that I think didn't necessarily got national attention, I think it should. Andy Burnham did something that particularly bothered you on a personal level. Do you want to tell me about it?

36:31Yeah, so we'd had a bit of a conversation. It's more of a local issue where he's coming up with a qualification. I think it was called the MBAC, which is geared towards getting younger people into trades and more manual and practical backgrounds. And I was always quite critical because I feel like it's an area where politicians are really out of touch. So they don't understand that the reason why people aren't getting into these jobs isn't because of what the qualification is called. It's because these jobs were looked down on and not paid enough. And it was just, I could see there, I was like, this is why we're not getting anywhere because politicians with decision-making power like don't understand what's actually going on and we had had a radio interview at the Eccles cake factory actually um where he'd I'd been asked about it and I said pretty much what I've just said then and then the next day he went on and he like lumped me and all together news like they only care about um like um university roots in education and I heard it and I was actually I was working in someone's loft and I have the radio on and I was absolutely fuming and I must have been fuming out loud because the customer popped her head up and was like is everything all right out there and I was like well how do I explain to this woman like actually it's not all right I'm really angry about what I've just heard on the radio because I thought how dare he turn around and say that I only care about university education where throughout the whole campaign I'd been really proud about saying like this is the job I do like I want more people to do it like there is another alternative to university both routes are great but let's try and focus on this for a little bit because we've got a skill shortage and a few people saying to me like that's just politics and like that's what politicians do and I was like we shouldn't be what we do we shouldn't be that willing to just shit on someone else because you disagree with them that you're just going to lump them in and misrepresent something that's what he'd done he told a story and included me in it in a way that I shouldn't have been and this is what you always hear people say and I get it, well that's what politicians do that's just what politics is like and I'm like I want to change that because I wouldn't do that with my friends I wouldn't do it with people I know so why do we do it with politics like we need to be honest and tell the truth and accept that when we get stuff wrong we need to say that I'm sorry but I never actually said that like publicly which again I would have maybe I've just had a bit more respect for and this is what we want to change and we're going to change it by having more normal people from different backgrounds in it.

38:45So Gorton and Denton is announced. I'm really proud of the selection process that actually it was you, Fessel and Sarah, who had an online hustings and you were selected. And it's been really nice to see Fessel and Sarah out with you campaigning. I think that's a big difference between us and political parties. Like we really do rally behind the person. What was the day of the announcement like just on a personal level? It was absolutely bonkers. and my life just changed like that so we had the hustings that finished at like half nine and then it was just straight on to all these calls and I think before I talk too much about the announcement I want to say exactly what you've just said about Vessel and Sarah who are unbelievable like they've they've been out relentlessly campaigning that in the office they're out doing stuff like Sarah brought cakes in Vessel was out with me yesterday like introducing me to people and that is different to other parties because when I was at the hustings I saw it was us three I thought whatever happens like we've got someone good here and I'd have done the same with both of them and that's what that's what makes us different that we're all in it together so that's been incredible and it's so exciting to see what happens next with the three of us but yeah the day of the announcement was bonkers I'd I thought I was I thought I was just gonna be late to college so I told my two someone like I was like I might just be in a bit later tomorrow like I'll keep you posted and then obviously when I realized how much excitement and how much of a spotlight was on us I was like I texted him in the morning I was like I don't think I'm going to be in today because it was just unbelievable we had the announcement didn't we um at the community center in Longsite and then it was just back-to-back media like everybody wanted to talk to us because I think the media is seeing like they won't talk to you Hannah

40:32we did our little Q &A together didn't we we were like Hans and Dec um and we didn't send anyone in the jungle no we didn't no um maybe we could send matthew goodwin yeah i think he's yeah well it's probably what he'll do when he loses that's true yeah that always seems to happen doesn't it washed up people make a lot of money out of tv appearances anyway the rest of us just go back to work i've encouraged us to be shady now you're gonna have to edit this down so it's like one minute long it's just us eating a sussie's role um any anyway um yeah I'd I'd I actually had my plastering clothes with me because I thought I was going back to college and I would have done like I'm like I'm used to balancing everything in life like that's what so many of us do like whether we're in politics or not like if you live here you're used to juggling lots of different things but yeah it was unbelievable yes we were at the Pakistani community center where we had the launch and then we were like out and about taking photos like going meeting things did bits of film and we had all these journalists wanting to talk to us and I just kind of thought this is this is it now like my life has changed um but I wouldn't change any of it for the world and what really struck me at that was every single journalist I spoke to or I should say pretty much every single journalist I spoke to commented how brilliant you were and you rarely get that from journalists they're normally just going through emotions but I think I don't know what journalists political backgrounds are and nor should I like that's a good journalist but pretty much everyone commented on how present and how refreshing and how authentic you were yeah thank thank you for that I'm not very good at taking compliments so it was also a weird question I'm like do you agree yeah I do I am amazing um but what is interesting I'm learning this more because obviously it's been a quick journey but I'm learning so much along the way is people do keep saying like you're so relatable and you're so and I think I'm no different to most of the people that are just walking down on the street but what is rare is that any of us ever managed to get into politics and that's the difference where I'm like I'm 10 a penny out there like you can find loads of different people like me who are roosting my community who work hard because that's what the vast majority of people do but in politics it is quite rare I think to be human like I think here in the Green Party like we're often the only ones that are that are because we're honest and people don't expect that and we just make it clear that like we're just trying to work hard and you don't really see that in any other place and so I do think that is the difference I think if we can if we can open the door in the next few weeks which is something I've always tried to do in politics but I can get my foot in the door and like force it open for everyone else to come through politics will just be filled with normal relatable people who live normal lives who really care about stuff I think it's such a point well made I I'm not going to say there's no other like human politicians and other political parties I know some of them and they're wonderful and I'm even friendly with them but we probably are talking about a handful that I could sit with and just have a normal human conversation like this with them there's something particular about politics that seems to attract people it's almost the opposite of who you think it should attract who just aren't able to hold a normal human conversation that isn't either deeply political or isn't very guarded or isn't you see it when you talk to people and they are looking around the room for who the most important person in the room is and that is something we don't yeah we can't we need to change we can't have people who are just there for their own ego just because they see being an MP as like a high status like of course it is because it's an honor to do it but it's not a career step it's not yeah I think that is different really here in the Greens and I think members members see that I'm proud of our selection process like we see we see the people who we want in positions and often it's the people who don't want something that are the people that should do it and that's why I'm always encouraging people like have you thought about becoming a counsellor they'll say exactly the same things that I did I don't know if I could do that I'm not very good at xyz and I think if you've got that level of self-awareness you're in like that's who we need the people I worry about are the opposite and I do see this even in the Green Party people who join and they say ready to be an MP off I go and like confidence is a good thing I'm not someone who's unconfident but I think having a bit of self-doubt and self-awareness as you put it is a pretty pretty important quality yeah and you never want to lose that and again i think a lot of us in our backgrounds and our jobs like we do that anyway i know i never want to be 100 confident at anything when i'm working on gas and i'm not sure about something i need to go and check it i don't want that level of like i know everything i know best i'm just going to bulldoze my way through it even if i'm not sure please don't bulldoze with gas around no no no it's probably not a good thing No, it definitely isn't.

45:02And during the 2024 election, you visited every single target seat. So everywhere that we won an MP, you and all the greyhounds all visited. And so how does it feel now to have pretty much the entire country coming into Gorton and Denton alongside the locals and being like, we're going to go get you elected? I'll just finish eating this. That is, yeah, I said this morning, because I realised all these faces that were just coming up that I was seeing of people from across the country who, when I was campaigning in all of the target seats I was very lucky to be able to do that I never did it because I expected anything in return like I did it because I believed and I know that we should have more green MPs but it has been really beautiful to see people like come back and be like and who just recognise how much I care about something how much I believe in it how hard I work and they're showing up and saying like we've got you we've got you back and it's brilliant alongside people as you mentioned people who live in the community who live in the constituency who've never been political at all who come in and get involved because they know there's so much at stake but it is incredible it feels like that thing about having everyone in your front room like I feel like everybody's come to mind and we're gonna sit down with the pastor and then go out and do some campaigning um I should add so the greyhound section that I've got now the the group it's all is there any olive that went to all the places because I lost Elsie a few months back but we we promise whatever happens they are going to rep everyone in parliament there will be a day when we get a photo of them outside, when we win.

46:28When we win this constituency of Gorton and Denton, the Greyhounds will absolutely play their part and have a picture outside Parliament. And we've just come from the park, as I said, and the speech I just gave was about the fact that I was really appreciative of all the people who had come around the country. I think it's also really important, though, to talk about those people from Gorton and Denton. And I met a couple this morning. Well, I met a few people this morning, but particularly a couple who said to me they'd never been involved in politics before. They would never have dreamt of joining a political party and actually what this by-election and what you specifically have done is not only got them to join the Green Party, to turn up on a Sunday morning, and now they're going out door knocking.

47:03And I mean, that's a pretty high barrier to engagement. How does that feel and why is that important? It's so important because I remember how that felt. I remember how it felt when I lived there and we had a by-election that was called that then didn't happen because there was Theresa May's snap election. But I just remember that feeling of everything being at stake. and I think when there's a ballot election and the spotlight is really on you it shows you our political system in terms of voting is very broken but it does show you how powerful your vote is when everybody's watching what's going to happen but here I think the difference is there's there is there's a lot to to win but there's a lot to lose and that fear is really amongst people and that's what we're really feeling at the moment people are really scared about what's going to happen if reform get in what that means for a really diverse and beautiful constituency and people are really proud of our community and don't want it to turn into somewhere that excludes people even more and it will do under a reform mp um and it's that that pride in your community and we see it like i saw it when we were out on long site um in long site where there's these two guys for hours just working their way down the a6 picking up bags of leaves because they just care about where they live and like they'll have been doing that for years but now there's a different way of showing how we care about our community and over the next few weeks that way is turning up and campaigning for hope because there is a lot at stake and there's a lot to lose but there is so much to gain as well and we did an interview yesterday i won't keep talking about interviews we did otherwise people feel like i'll just go listen to them um but the interviewer said and i don't think she's being sarcastic it really confused me she said i've got friends who live next door constituency and they're really confused about whether to vote Labour or Green and to me that was a conversation we're just not having on the doorsteps actually we're not finding Labour voters we're finding people who might be voting reform and that's worrying but actually it just feels like the Labour vote is utterly collapsed now I don't often advertise attack lines but it's such an absurd one I'm going to advertise it Lucy Powell the deputy leader of Labour wrote a letter to me to suggest we were in somehow splitting the vote And I'm just like, literally, has she knocked on a door in Coulton and Denton because we're not finding Labour voters?

49:16Yeah, and I think that suggestion of splitting the vote suggests that that only happens if you're together or on the same page. And Labour are so far off the page. I don't know how you could suggest that we're splitting any sort of vote when they don't represent the people or the things that we care about. They abandoned their commitment to working people and working cross communities a long time ago. the suggestion of that splitting the vote between us labor and reform we're three entirely different parties um and the same as you i'm like i i i am so surprised i don't think i've had to like ask a single person why they're still considering voting labor because i genuinely haven't found one and i would say if i was having different conversations i would just say that i'm not like everybody the first thing they are they want you to know is i'm not voting labor ever again and that's really interesting it makes complete sense but even in the face of reform people know there's a credible option now and it's us and so they don't have to think about us and tactically to keep reform out voting Labour like I know Labour are trying to peddle that they're trying to they they know that it will be worse if they lose to us than reform that's why they're trying to take chunks of us in that way but voters on the doorstep like people aren't thinking like that people are just so fed up and exhausted about having to vote tactically like we just want to vote with our guts and vote for a party that is going to work hard and going to represent the area and all of its strengths instead of just keep voting Labour to keep reform out or yeah stick to the old party system that doesn't work anymore but I mean great thank you to Labour for doing so much work so much of the work for us because you've managed to take that bit of the conversation out and that conversation now is just us talking about what we're going to do and that's what that's what voters want to hear about I do want to tell you my nightmare scenario though which I've not told you in person which it's probably not ideal that I'm doing it and broadcasting it to the nation.

51:01But my nightmare scenario, and I can genuinely see this happening, so I think it's important to name it, is where Labour do disastrously, which is what I think they will, but not disastrously enough that they take enough of a chunk of the vote that reform gets through because actually Labour effectively split the vote. Now, this is a conversation I've not had a lot because I hate this conversation about splitting the vote for the exact reason that you just said. But what can we do about that? What can we do about making sure that people who are voting Labour weirdly to stop reform, even though there is no way that Labour are going to win this contest, how do we make sure that we're getting those people to vote Green?

51:36People voting for us and having a Green MP and keeping reform out, you win two things there. You reject politics of hate and division and you end up with someone who just really gives a shit. And that's what people want. Even if we disagree on stuff, my friends disagree with me on loads of stuff politically, but we respect people that we trust and that means telling the truth and working hard. And so if anybody is considering voting Labour at the minute, I get it. I get the temptation to vote tactically, to think about what the outcome of your vote might be, but vote with your gut and vote for the people who care about you.

52:10Amazing. And I'm watching Prime Minister's Question Time and Hannah Spencer is on the green benches and I'm about to get emotional again. I was just asking a question. You step up and you ask a question. When you're an MP, you can't do everything all at once. There's kind of has to be a few things that you focus on to really make your name on and get that change done do you already have a sense and these don't have to be absolute commitments because let's get you in there first but are there maybe two or three things where you think actually as an MP those are the things I really want to focus on so I think we touched on things like gender-based violence violence against women and girls um scapegoating of migrants and people seeking asylum um but more broadly and it's a huge issue inequality and that comes in many forms and we see it play out in many forms and something I really want to try and make a difference on is fuel poverty so in Gorten Denson we have higher than average rates of fuel poverty and that is something that affects like all ages and all incomes like everybody gets hit by that but it disproportionately affects people who are from poorer backgrounds or vulnerable people and it's our disabled communities and older groups in our communities who are in situations where you know like you think about some of the the pensioners in our society who've like paid into a system all their life and then they're now faced with not even being able to have the heating on freezing in their own homes because we live in some of the leakiest homes in Europe and because no government has ever sensibly looked at the issue with common sense and said there is a way to fix this that will make things cheaper for people and make people more comfortable.

53:50I've worked on a lot of the government schemes that have happened before about insulating people's houses and I'm absolutely like I cannot get my head around how unregulated they are like for a lot of there's a lot of fraud fraudulent companies that it's just been a license to print money and because no politician has ever looked and thought how can we do this better it's just been a bit of a let's let's chuck a lot of money at this and if it doesn't work well it doesn't matter and it comes under the the thing i talk a lot about too about why we need more people in politics because i know trades people like me and the people who've been doing it for decades have been saying for years we we are fitting central heating systems whatever this heating source half the heat's just growing out of the house how does that make any sense no one's been listening to us no one's been no one's been letting us into the rooms where decisions are made and that we can change we can change that on day one when i start talking about fuel poverty but we'll change it when every single person in this country looks and thinks I can do that I could maybe be a politician I could get involved in politics because I might not have been to uni and got a political degree but I've got I've got knowledge like from my own area that I can feed into and yeah I think that is you can apply that to a lot of different issues people living in poverty more generally again we have higher rates of people living in insecure rented accommodation there's things that we need to talk about there but I just don't I really don't want to live in a world where people are choosing we say a lot but choosing about putting the heating on or putting food on the table often people can't afford to do either we have one of the richest and fastest growing economies in manchester in the whole world and yet we live somewhere where i go and do i've i've been to do a gas check on someone and they've not had their boiler on for a year because they can't afford it and i just think i don't want to live in a world like that i don't want to live in a world where people are having to make those and they're not making choices because they're forced on them it's not a choice at all and we can change that we can change that because we're a part of that's not lobbied by the fossil fuel industry I have no vested interest in sorting that other than I'm a decent person that cares about people that's my that's my interest that's yeah I think I might start voting green right move to Gorton and Denton before so this is weird because I'm interviewing you but I also want to say that without putting too much pressure on you this election does feel like the battle of the soul of the nation i think it will be the most important by-election in this whole parliamentary term most importantly for the people of gorton and denton but actually if reform did win an mp there the message that was sent to the rest of the country and the message that would send the world frankly about british politics i'm saying no pressure but the alternative to that the message it would send both in gorton and denton but to the entire country to have a progressive woman a working class woman a plumber in parliament and also rejection of the politics that reform are putting forward I think would say so much so with that all being said if someone's listening to this and thinking I should probably help if I can what can people do?

56:49Firstly I agree with everything that you've just said about how historic this could be in a really bad way potentially but also in an absolutely amazing way like we can set the course of British politics over the next few weeks. I have written down the website to get involved. It's gorton-dempton.greenparty.org.uk or search online and you'll find it. And on there, there's tons of ways to get involved because we need people out having conversations with people knocking on doors, delivering leaflets, but there is space for everybody to do that. I'm talking to you at home. If you're watching and thinking or listening, what can I do to get involved?

57:24There is a multitude of ways that you can come and help. come and help with lots of different things we've got a whatsapp community that you can join we've got email updates that you can find out about and it'll be the place to go after we win and we get our first northern green mp you'll hear about how to help too um and you if you're thinking about coming and you've never done anything like this before you are not on your own there are hundreds of people that have been coming turning up on their own or coming with a friend and they've never done it before you will get all the training and support that you need to be able to do this and something sound intimidating, door knocking sounds intimidating, but I've had amazing conversations with people constantly when I get to go out and listen to people.

58:02And the biggest thing that people are telling us now is I'm just grateful that someone's come and knocked on my door and listened to me. And you can be the person that has the chance to do that. So I'm going to read this out again. goton-denton.greenparty.org.uk There's a lot of dots and dashes in there, but when you get there, I promise it'll be worth it. so come and get involved. Yeah, it's so important. I often talk about door knocking and leafleting but we also know that whether someone has a disability or they're quite shy or whatever the reason is that there's a range of things. Almost any skill anyone has no matter how unique in fact even more so if unique can probably help your campaign right now.

58:38Yeah, exactly. And it's, yeah, the more the merrier. I want to end with something actually just really personal which is we have a mutual friend who's Asma. So Asma founded the Muslim Greens and joined the Green Party a few years ago and she said that she joined the Green Party over Palestine but actually she stayed because of the environmental policies and obviously I often talk about there's no environmental justice without racial social and economic justice too and I think asthma just encapsulates that in everything that she does and she was the person who introduced you uh when you were selected yeah sorry um how does it feel to have asthma supporting you yeah it's it's amazing because asthma like when I met her she had a bit of a similar like journey with me like we were both joining then suddenly we were both doing loads like she could have found in Muslim Green she was absolutely a huge part of our emotions on Palestine like that woman does not stop and like yeah and she just gets me and she gets that thing where I'm like I don't always do things right I don't always know what to say but she just understands that like I'm I'm trying yeah I'm trying and it's phenomenal because she supports me in so many different ways I mean last week I turned up at her house and she was like I need to iron those trousers I literally just stood by her front door while she was inside while she ironed my trousers and so it's that thing of like those small things that mean a lot but then she's also the person when I'm like my head's about to fall off like I don't understand this I'm trying to get my head around that like whatever and she's just like just be yourself like just go out there and do it you care and people know you care and that is important and she's she's always encouraged me in lots of different ways but and actually I wanted when I was asked to do the speech in greater Manchester at the conference I wanted to split it with her and she understandably was like I don't want to do it like I don't want to speak and I have sort of like gently tried to encourage her since and then when she gave that speech on the day of the announcement I was like I was like she's hilarious like she's so funny to make all those jokes she's talking really passionately about everything she cares about and now I've seen that I'm like this is phenomenal because I know that she yeah we need to get her as our next MP I think.

1:00:49I was just saying I'm looking forward to a day when I go visit with Hannah Spencer MP to go get asthma elected. Yes exactly yeah and it's a it is that thing of kind of lifting each other up and find it and our party is full of people who were just there to help each other out and to help with things that maybe we're struggling with and And yeah, I just, I'm so grateful to have these people around me right now because I just, I couldn't do any of this without people like Asma. Thank you for being our first Green Party of England and Wales guest. And I guess good luck in the election. Thank you so much.

1:01:22Just casually. Yeah, and thank you as well for everything that you've done, like on a personal level. We're really good friends and you've always encouraged me. And when I felt inadequate or like I shouldn't be in a space, that you've always really pushed me and you do that to so many people in the party. And it's, yeah, it's phenomenal because I don't think I could have done a lot of this without you. So thank you. Well, thank you. And thanks for everything that you bring every day.

1:01:49Zach, final words for me. If you're paying a phone bill anyway, like nearly all of us are, of course, why not pay a phone bill that funds rewilding, reintroducing and replanting the three R's? You can even watch it happening on your phone. That's bloom scrolling, not doom scrolling. To find out more and to join the thousands of people helping British wildlife, go to ecotalk.co.uk slash bold politics. Join the bloom scrollers and the blooming nature revolution.