Why British History Needs A Retelling | Zakia Sewell

0:00You know what's wild? Most people are still overpaying for car insurance just because it's a pain to switch. That's why there's Jerry. Jerry's the only app that compares rates from over 50 insurers in minutes and helps you switch fast with no spam calls or hidden fees. Drivers who save with Jerry could save over$1 ,300 a year. Before you renew your car insurance policy, do yourself a favor. Download the Jerry app or head to jerry.ai slash ACAST. ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's the show that we recommend. With so much uncertainty in the economy, we need to rely on experts we can trust.

0:41So Money, hosted by me, Farnoosh Tarabi, is a Webby Award-winning podcast now in its 10th year. The New York Times calls it one of the most respected personal finance shows out there. As a financial journalist for more than 20 years and bestselling author, let me tell you, it is a privilege to produce this show. And whether you want to save more, invest, or negotiate a better salary, I've got you covered with fresh episodes three times a week. And here's something extra. I'm giving away a free money call to one lucky listener every week, a chance for you and I to talk one-on-one and create a personal plan for your goals.

1:15Listen and subscribe to So Money wherever you get your podcasts. Acast helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com Every now and then, we all have days where the rise of the far right, the kind of incompetence of this Labour government, and a general feeling of toxicity in the air kind of hangs on our shoulders. And if I'm being really honest with you, I'm having one of those days. So Zakia feels like the perfect guest. She's someone I've admired and loved for a long time. I can remember times during the pandemic and afterwards where I would just sit and listen to the tunes that she played, so often so soulful and mellow, full of her folk heroes and heroines.

2:02So I'm delighted that she's come on the podcast today to talk about her new book, Finding Albion. This is my conversation with DJ, writer, journalist and activist, Zakia Soule. So one of the things that people say to me a lot is how do you not find your job stressful? Most of the time, I just find it really hopeful and really inspiring and people are doing amazing things. And then every so often I have a morning like I've just had where reform are kind of pushing the most negative xenophobic kind of policies. And I just feel like I need to cleanse. And then you've come into my life today, Zakia.

2:35And I feel like you're that amazing cleanse. I want to talk about you and the work that you're doing at the moment. But I also just want to let the viewers know that I'm fanboying hard right now. because there's a digital music station called NTS, which is really cool. People should check them out. And you did a show on there for years that I used to listen to every single week. So I'm very used to having your voice in my ear. And indeed, you and your mum, Amy, would often do the show together. And then you moved on to the BBC to do Dreamtime. How are you finding that kind of shift? Well, I have to say, yeah, to know that we have one of our foremost political leaders listening to my show is really an honour.

3:13And it means he's got great taste as well. So, yeah, thank you for listening. And, yeah, it's been an interesting transition sort of going from NTS, which is very much a kind of DIY kind of station. You know, I was there in the early days of the station when it was just in a kind of a little box off a square in Dalston in East London to the BBC. But it's been a wonderful journey. And, you know, I just love being able to share the music that I love and tell stories through music. And I suppose the book that we're going to talk a little bit about is a kind of continuation of that weaving, that sort of weaving together of different traditions and trying to find kind of common narratives.

3:49I suppose that's the kind of parallel between what I do in music and what I've done with the book. I love that. And in the book's introduction, which, sorry, the book's called Finding Albion, in the introduction you say not a lot of people necessarily know what Albion means or they might not have heard the word unless they support certain football teams. So what does Albion mean? So Albion is the ancient name for Britain. So kind of in some of the earliest texts, you've got ancient Greek geographers referring to the island of Britain as Albion and sort of distinguishing it from Ireland, today's Ireland, which they called Ivernia.

4:22So it's this kind of ancient word. Nobody really knows where it came from. Nobody really knows the kind of the true etymology of the word. Some people say it has a connection to the Latin word albus, meaning white. That could be the White Cliffs of Dover. Some people who have rather dark visions of Albion say that it's a reference to the white skin of Albion's true inhabitants. But it's a word that is sort of because we don't really know exactly where it came from or what it means. It's a word that is sort of rich for dreaming about sort of alternatives for Britain. The incredible visionary and polymath William Blake wrote extensively about Albion.

5:00And he described Albion as a kind of primordial giant that sort of represented the soul of the nation. And Blake wrote that Albion had once contained all of heaven and earth in his limbs. He was this kind of great, majestic, cosmic being. And yet he'd fallen into a kind of deathly slumber. And Blake saw this as the consequence of the kind of rationalism and materialism and greed and religious dogma of his age. And yet he promised that the spirit of Albion would rise again to restore enchantment and hope and, you know, to revitalise the nation. So my sense of Albion is very much kind of informed and influenced by Blake's.

5:39I see it as an alternative spirit of the nation, one that runs through certain aspects of our culture and in the landscape that kind of rises up, I suppose, in times of need. And I would say that we are in one of those at the moment. And that's why I've gone sort of searching for visions of Albion in this book. I love that so much. And so in the book, you're going around the country, looking for stories of heroes and myths and folk legends. Are there any highlights? Obviously, people should read the book to get the real details, but are there any highlights where you thought, yes, this really feels right?

6:10Well, perhaps it'd be good to start with one of the early legends of Albion. So in the book, as you mentioned, I'm kind of drawing on our older tales and customs and stories. I've always been really drawn to kind of folk culture because of the very different sort of vision of Britishness that we get when we look to some of these older customs and tales. When I started the research for this book, I was aware of a kind of famous legend of Albion written by the 12th century historian Geoffrey of Monmouth. And he, in his History of the Kings of Britain, I put history in inverted commas, because although I think a lot of what he wrote was sort of believed up until the 17th century, we now see it as largely fictitious.

6:49He wrote about Albion being a land inhabited by a race of demonic giants until the arrival of the Trojan hero Brutus, who kind of came and wiped out the giants and colonised the land and named it Britain. But other scholars and poets, they wanted to fill in the gaps and they asked, well, how did those giants get there? And then you end up with this very interesting story of Albina and her 30 sisters. And according to legend, Albina was the daughter of a sometimes Syrian, sometimes Greek king. and she and her 30 sisters were known for being extraordinarily beautiful but also very disobedient. So they plot to murder their husband in the night and they are exiled and they sail the seven seas until they reach a beautiful uninhabited island which Albina names Albion.

7:39So she and her sisters, they live in a kind of feminist utopia on this island for many years. They sort of commune with the land. They learn to hunt its wild animals. They forage. and then eventually they begin to pine for male company and they procreate with some demons and they give birth to the race of giants. Now, obviously there is kind of some misogynistic sort of ideas in that story, but I think that it's very, very fascinating that in some of the earliest stories about Britain and some of our kind of origin stories, we have this tale of immigrants, refugees from Syria arriving on these shores to start a new life.

8:17and I think that you know we could what would happen if we repurposed this myth if we reclaimed this old myth if we made Albina you know made her a kind of symbol of Britishness what how how might it kind of change the way we think about people arriving on these shores today if we know that kind of in our earlier stories that idea was there so that's that was one of the stories that really kind of blew my mind I think why didn't I learn about this you know why didn't I know about Albina? Why was I not taught the legends of Albion when I was at school? And, you know, many other countries really hold those kind of national myths as sacred.

8:53We don't really hear in Britain. Do you have a theory why we don't really hear about those stories? Because I'm hearing some of these for the first time when I look through your book, I had no idea about whether it's history or whether it's myths. And obviously, sometimes those things are blurred. It feels very rarely in this conversation do we have a conversation about those things, other than maybe Shakespeare being the exception that often uses these myths. Yeah, well, in the book, I kind of write about Wales as an example, because I grew up in London. My dad's side of the family are English.

9:22My grandma has a connection to Wales and lived there for many, many years. My mum's side of the family are from the Caribbean. And I spent a lot of time in Wales growing up and always felt really at home there. It was where I first made a connection to the landscape, I suppose, where I first made a connection to some of those kind of older myths and legends. You know, like there were stories of Merlin and all of that kind of just in the ether in Wales. But it was also where I encountered a sense of national identity that felt welcoming rather than threatening. You know, even though me and my mum were like the only black faces around for miles when we visited, I used to kind of encounter these characters.

9:58They'd be singing Welsh hymns in the pubs, you know, and you'd see the Welsh flag, you know, the incredible red dragon sort of everywhere. But it never brought about a kind of fearful response in me in the same way that perhaps the St. George's Cross does. So in the book, I started to really question why that was. And I was learning about the kind of flourishing of Welsh national consciousness in the 18th and 19th centuries. That was largely a response to the Union of 1707. You know, Wales had been in this kind of quasi-colonial relationship with England for many centuries beforehand. And after the Union, there was this attempt to really define Welshness in a way that it hadn't been before.

10:37And obviously, so this is a kind of national identity that was developed in opposition or almost kind of in defence against a kind of dominant neighbour. and there were poets and scholars and writers and aristocrats kind of really drawing for those older myths and symbols in their kind of attempts to conjure a sense of Welshness that could hold its own within the Union. So they looked at their old stories. Half the symbols that we associate with Wales today, the leek, the bard, the druid, the triple harp, these were kind of symbols that had their roots in older customs and stories but they were really kind of held up as symbols of Welsh identity during that era.

11:20So although I had this sense that the kind of Welshness or the kind of symbols of Welshness had just sort of sprung organically from the earth, in fact, the Welsh symbols as we know them today were collectively consciously conjured. And the English never really did the same thing. I think that for a long time, Englishness was sort of enmeshed with the British project. So in many cases, our kind of British and English symbols are kind of merged or blended. It's quite hard to sort of distinguish them from one another. And Caroline Lucas writes about this very well in her book, Another England, where she says it can be quite hard to sort of locate an Englishness as distinct from Britishness.

11:59And that is sort of a result of the British project. Whereas the Welsh and Scots have a very clear sense of who they are outside of Britishness. And I feel like the English don't in the same way. And is there a danger here? Because I'm someone who supports the right of Scottish people to have an independence referendum, and I also support the right of Welsh people to have a Welsh referendum. But what does English nationalism look like? And if we don't have a version of that, there's a worry that another group of people who might not have good intentions might have their very specific version of English nationalism.

12:31Well, absolutely, and this is what we're seeing at the moment. I think that many of us who have roots in England, we kind of dismiss our Englishness because we don't want to be kind of lumped in with those who hold very sort of toxic and exclusionary visions of what Englishness is and who can be a part of it and so you know I've always called myself British rather than English and I think now that I start to think about it I think that's me that's a kind of avoidance in a way because I was born in England I know I've always lived here and I think there are lots of other people feel the same. But the problem is that when we do that, when we sort of reject our Englishness, or we try to claim some kind of Irish, Scottish or Welsh kind of distant relative and kind of, you know, latch onto that identity and heritage, we're handing it over to people often with sort of darker, more exclusionary visions of what Englishness is to define that identity.

13:24And, you know, what's been really important for me in this book has been to seek out those other examples of English culture, English heroes, alternative histories that actually make me feel a little bit more proud about being English, you know, not those histories that are enmeshed with the kind of reverence of military monarchy and empire, but radicals and eccentrics and people who have fought against oppressive systems and structures throughout history. And I think that finding those people who have fought against, you know, the oppressive structures and systems, And so it's made me feel a little bit more at home with my Englishness.

14:01I love that. So we asked the questions if it was abstract, but actually it's not abstract at all. We know that Tommy Robinson and many people were marching through the streets with the St George's Cross, with the Raising the Flags march. And also we've seen the flags popping up all over England. If we're not to give that space to the likes of Tommy Robinson, or I would say Nigel Farage, who are our alternate stories? Who are the heroes that we should be pushing forward? So one of the wonderful things about folk culture, So whether we're talking about old songs that have been passed down for generations, you know, seasonal community customs that are practiced in various places around the country, or kind of older stories, these aspects of culture have traditionally been the expressions of marginalized people, of the working classes, of women.

14:44I look at also, you know, the expressions of the subjects of the former colonies, you know, people who have been sort of excluded from the academies, the institutions, and whose perspectives are really included in the dominant history. So when we look to some of these alternative forms of culture, when we look to folk culture, we often find stories and perspectives that trouble the dominant narratives. And that's one of the reasons that I'm really interested in them. So in one of the chapters in the book, I'm looking at the folk song repertoire in England. And in this incredible body of songs, many of which were collected in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, we get tales of rebels and kind of outlaws.

15:27And I look at this particular song called The Rufford Park Poachers, which was collected by a folk singer in 1908. But it speaks of a real life clash that happened between poachers and gamekeepers in 1851. And there's a radical sentiment in the song. The lyrics are, a buck or doe, believe it's so, a pheasant or a hare were set on earth for everyone quite equal for to share. So poach a bold as I unfold, keep up your gallant heart and think about those poachers bold that night in Rufford Park. And the reality is that during this time, if a working person sort of killed a hare or a doe, they'd be transported to the colonies for up to 15 years for doing so because, you know, working people were not allowed to hunt game freely.

16:17in the way that the aristocracy were. And there were major, major clashes about the increased legislation against poaching during this era. So the more that I was sort of reading into the history of the song and the context of the song, it tells the story of a real life clash between gamekeepers and poachers on the lands of the Earl of Scarborough in the 1850s. It revealed this kind of radical history of protest, you know, from the Luddites who set fire to factory machinery in a similar area to where the clash happened, to, you know, the toll puddle martyrs, going all the way back to the diggers of the English Civil War who believed in the abolition of private property and declared the land a common treasury for all.

17:00And, you know, I found these tales so inspiring. Very, very English. You know, these are stories of English heroes who were not on plinth or who were often not taught about when you learn history at school. But I think they're a really fertile source for those of us who are seeking out alternative English heroes. You know, why don't we look to the history of kind of English radical action? And when we're thinking about alternative kind of symbols and sort of stories of Englishness on the left. So that is just one of the kind of strands that I found incredibly inspiring. And also, you know, that chapter is also about the history of enclosure.

17:40So I spoke with contemporary members of the Right to Roam movement, including one woman called Nadia Sheikh. And she was talking about this link between the fates of rural working class people in England who were shoved off the land through various acts of enclosure. And the people who were being exploited and enslaved across the empire, because it was the profits from the empire. Many landowners received massive payouts. There's been lots of incredible work kind of making this kind of money flow visible in recent years, that so much of that, the profits or the money that people were given by the government after the abolition of slavery was put back into the land and further, you know, shoving more working class white English people off the land.

18:24And so here is the story of ultimately a shared struggle. And yet, you know, racism is what kind of prevents us from being able to recognise where our struggles are shared. Tired of your car insurance rate going up even with a clean driving record? You're not alone. That's why there's Jerry, your proactive insurance assistant. Jerry compares rates side by side from over 50 top insurers and helps you switch with ease. Jerry even tracks market rates and alerts you when it's best to shop. No spam calls, no hidden fees. Drivers who save with Jerry could save over$1 ,300 a year. Switch with confidence.

19:00Download the Jerry app or visit jerry.ai slash ACAST today.

19:08One of my favourite bands actually of all time is a folk band called Seize the Day. They perform a lot at festivals and I would say they would describe themselves as a protest folk band. But they have a beautiful song about Luddites and Chartists and it kind of tells the history of that song. So I'd encourage people to check out Seize the Day. I think you named something there, which is racism. And obviously your book doesn't talk about it in such terms. It's much more hopeful and positive than that. but also I'm pretty sure to agree we can't deny that racism exists and we need to kind of acknowledge that what do we do about the fact that we talked about the story on the left and we talked about dominant narratives how do we find a way to bring people together when things feel increasingly divided oh well can you solve what can I get rid of racism well you know it's It's a very intoxicating idea, you know, an idea, the idea that you ultimately, regardless of your life circumstances, regardless of, you know, whether you have a loving, prosperous, fulfilling life or not, that you are always going to be better than this group of people because of the colour of your skin.

20:16that's a very intoxicating and seductive idea it's going to be difficult to kind of get people to let go of that because then also if once we once we remove that idea then people are often having to face the harsh realities of of their own life or their own failings or or whatever um also when we're thinking about kind of the nation you know think of all of the atrocities and the horrors that have been committed sort of under and justified using this lie of racism You know, I can enslave this person. I could steal the land of this person. I can oppress and brutalise this person. And I can still be a good moral person because they are lesser due to the colour of their skin.

20:58So if we, you know, in order to sort of detoxify our society and kill this virus of racism, there's going to be a lot of shadow work that's going to have to, you know, people are going to have to really come to terms and sort of deal with all of the horrors that have been kind of committed under the spell of this lie. And so you can see why people don't want to do it. This is kind of where we're at in Britain. You know, there's been incredible work done over the past few years to make visible and to sort of reveal the undeniable fact of the horrors of the British Empire. You've got people who've been educated to believe that, you know, we have been this guiltless, faultless nation that brought civilisation to kind of vast swathes of humanity.

21:41Quite a kind of, you know, a high position to be occupying. And then the alternative is offered, and that is that British people are kind of murdering, exploitative enslavers. And you can see why people don't want to go there. You can see why people have such a strong reaction to those of us who dare to say the empire was not, you know, all sunshine and roses. This is where it's really important for nuance. And this is something that I try to sort of bring into my reflections in this book is, you know, can we find the middle ground? Can we have a story that is honest about our trespasses, that is not afraid to shy away from the darkness of our past and our present, but that can also hold the hope and the magic and the enchantment at the same time.

22:27And I think that that is so important. And I think that if we can sort of offer an alternative story that is a little bit more balanced, a little bit more honest, a little bit more nuanced, perhaps we'll be more able to kind of convince people who've been quite wedded to the kind of story of perfection, the story of we defeated the Nazis and we are the goodies of history, to something that's a little bit more subtle. And, you know, I hope that once that kind of alternative story that is a bit more honest, that is a bit more nuanced, sort of becomes more evident, that we'll be able to get people to hop over.

23:01Fingers crossed. That's so interesting. Do you have thoughts about how we do that? And it's perfectly legitimate to turn to me and go, you're the politician, you tell me. But I think that like, I think that's with Winston Churchill, for instance, that there's this kind of narrative, predominant narrative that he was this amazing prime minister that wasn't problematic at all and it feels like when anyone tries to have a conversation about someone can have done both some good things and also have been deeply problematic so there feels like there's no nuance for that space in the conversation um so you've written a book you're uh always using music and art and culture uh i feel like i'm leading with this question because i feel like that's way to change things but but what do you think some people see folk as you know it's got to be morris dances it's got to be bells and ribbons and it's something that kind of happened you know many, many centuries ago that people are sort of reenacting.

23:49But in one of the chapters in the book, I went to a new folk tradition in Penzance. It's called Montal. It happens at the winter solstice. And I actually got involved in the tradition. So, you know, most of the time I'd sort of been like on the sidelines taking photos and sort of studiously taking notes. But someone didn't turn up for this procession. So I ended up, you know, with a wolf mask on, like howling at children. And it felt really good. But, you know, one of the things that I think that experience taught me was actually what these traditions are about is community. It's about that local sense of community and a sense of community that kind of transcends political differences, you know, backgrounds, where you might be from.

24:27It's like in that moment, it's about everyone coming together, using the kind of communal resources that you have. You don't have to be a great singer. You don't have to be a great artist or dancer or whatever. But everyone's kind of like getting together because they care about the place in which they live and they want to do something nice for the people that they live with. in today's world most of us are kind of part of communities of interest right we kind of hang out with people that we like that like the same things as us that are interests that have the same politics as us that maybe like the same music as us and i spoke to this amazing kind of gallic community practitioner on the isle of mal and she was saying that up there the sense of community is about everyone it's about the people who you disagree with the people who whose views you might despise and yet you know if there's a storm if the log falls down and gets in the way of the road you're still going to go and check on that person.

25:15And so this is where I think the idea of community festivities is one way that I think we could perhaps start to kind of mend those severed ties and sort of alleviate this kind of, as you say, this polarisation that is on the rise in our country, you know, that getting together and like singing and doing a silly dance with your neighbours, whether or not they could be on the right, you could be on the left, but in that moment, you connect with something more and something bigger, which is your shared humanity. And I think that that is the thing that we lose sight of when we're sort of like arguing online with people that, you know, don't share the same views as us, is that we're all, and it sounds a bit utopian and hippie, but you know, that sense of humanity that even though I might disagree with you, that I respect your humanity, and therefore I'm going to treat you with dignity and respect.

26:03So this is one thing that I think that kind of these acts of coming together in dance or song or storytelling can do. And another aspect, I was listening to Dr. Cornel West on a podcast earlier and he said something about artists and creatives authorising new kind of visions and new realities that other people can't see. And he's sort of talking about the deep kind of power and potential of the imagination and creativity. And, you know, whether you're a songwriter or a sculptor or kind of a storyteller, those of us who kind of work within those creative spheres, we're dreamers. And it's so important that we can dream of new realities and new possibilities.

26:45Otherwise, how will they ever come to be? So I think that the arts is such a vital kind of way for us to envision new realities in Britain. And I don't think that that is separate from the kind of political work that you do. I think that these things absolutely work in tandem with one another. That's one of my favourite answers anyone's ever given ever. I guess I'm a former theatre actor that got into politics and I'm listening to you and I'm like, that's just it though, isn't it? It's people coming together to create new stories in symbiosis with what's happening in the world and then to vision the future.

27:16I think so often the things that hold us back is billions of pounds have been spent on propaganda telling us things can't be different or they have to be this way or the toxicity and division are exactly how it should be as opposed to people are fueling that and they're being paid to fuel that and actually we could create something different. Before we go into complete utopia, which I'm totally there for, There are people, though, who would identify as right wing or indeed even far right. And no matter what humanity or community we put them in, they are set on destroying or pushing this toxicity.

27:48Do we think we can change their minds or is it a case of building a society that doesn't include them? Well, it's interesting. I was thinking about this phrase, this term far right, because, as I mentioned, I, you know, got a lot of horrible racist comments on a video that was posted about me speaking about these subjects and sort of amidst all the kind of horror and the kind of drudgery of the comment. You know, there was one comment that stood out and it was this woman and she was saying, you know, who are the far right? Who are you talking about? And she was kind of saying, we need to be careful about the language that we're using because there are people who, you know, are kind of concerned about immigration in this country, who, you know, are quite sort of attached to the traditional kind of visions and ideas about Britishness and feel that that is under threat.

28:33But they're not necessarily neo-Nazis. And it kind of got me thinking, I said, well, yeah, because I sort of use this term, the far right, the far right. And I'm like, well, who are we talking about there? And are we in danger of alienating the people who are perhaps more moderate, the people who we could actually sort of converse with and commune with and perhaps whose minds we might be able to change, are we alienating them by sort of lumping them all over into this sort of category of the far right? And it's not something that I'd really considered before. And again, that division that you're talking about that is being promoted and funded, that we end up sort of replicating it or kind of fueling ourselves in the language that we use.

29:11So I think there are some people who are too far gone, to ever, you know, there's sort of no point wasting our kind of precious energy to try and reclaim them. But I do think there are lots of people who probably have valid concerns. If we were to have those conversations, we would. And I'm sure that you find this in the people that you speak to. Actually, when we really boil it down to the things that they're worried about in this country, you know, what's happening with the economy, you know, exploitation and the greed of these kind of big companies and indeed the politicians that actually there's a lot of common ground.

29:46So that idea of kind of humanity and what are the stories that where we can actually find things that we agree on, you know, seeking those out is so important. And as you have been an ambassador for hope, you know, I think that it's so important to try and cultivate that sense of hope, not just within the left, but trying to sort of spread that to people who are on the right as well. Because I think what many of us share is a sense of disillusionment about what's happening in Britain today. And how important do you think stories of the future are? Because we spend a lot of time talking about myths and history.

30:17But actually, do we need projections and creative kind of, I guess, vision, visionaries and dreamers of the future? And where do they come from? Absolutely. Well, I've always kind of, you know, I've always been drawn to the past. There's a kind of West African idea called Sankofa, and it's kind of symbolized by a kind of bird. And it's about going back into the past to sort of to move forward. So it's this kind of cyclical relationship between past and present. It's not a kind of nostalgic, let's look into the past, let's dream about the past and how things were better then. What we need to do is get back.

30:47Perhaps that's where my head was at when I started writing this book. You know, we need to get back to the pagans or whatever. But actually, that's kind of what some visions of Albion, even if they're kind of more progressive, share with those dominant fantasies about getting back to good old Britain in its heyday. And rather, it's about kind of what can we learn from the past to pave the way for a brighter future. And in the book, I'm talking to, yes, I'm sort of looking at older myths and stories, but I'm talking to people in the present day who are starting new traditions, who are kind of coming up with new mythologies that are kind of rooted in the past and inspired by traditions that have been passed down.

31:24And I think there is a lot of value in drawing for the wisdom of those who've come before us, but they are absolutely reimagining it and sort of using it to kind of forge new kind of progressive visions for the present day. and, you know, I'm thinking about an amazing Morris dancing troupe that I speak to called Boss Morris, who were absolutely kind of steeped in, you know, the tradition and the kind of historical aspects of it. They call themselves like a feminist prog Morris troupe. They dance to kind of crazy, you know, bass-heavy remixes of Morris dancing tunes. But more importantly, they have started this wave of Morris dancing lessons and they're going into schools and they're teaching young kids of all different backgrounds these kind of older English traditions.

32:05and the hope that they can inspire a more diverse range of people to feel like there are aspects of their Englishness that they can claim and that they can be proud of that aren't all to do with the kind of military monarchy and empire. And so absolutely, I think not using the past as an escape from the present or an escape from the hard work that is required if we want to build the futures that we're keen to manifest. I think that it's important that whenever we're looking to the past, we absolutely got the future in mind. and the two are interconnected. Seems like a beautiful place to end. I feel so recharged with hope and positivity.

32:42So you have a wonderful, positive warm bath that I knew you would be, as you always are when I listen to you. And if anyone watching or listening to this wants to know more about you or how they can follow you, how do they do that? Well, yeah, get a copy of the book. It's called Finding Albion. It's out now. You can find me on Instagram. I'm Zakia, ZZZAKIA. And if you just want to hear me talking about music and not about any of this stuff, You can tune in to Dreamtime on BB6 Music on Sunday nights at 10pm. Playing some banging tunes. Thanks so much, Sakia. Thank you.

33:34hundred dollar wedding dress. How keeping a Beyonce style brag book is going to get you that promotion. And AI drama that made Reddit our stock pick of the year. Jack and I worked on Wall Street, got MBAs, sold our last company to Robin Hood. Plus we were freshman year roommates. So I can tell you why Jack's a briefs guy, not a boxers guy. So listen to T-Board, the best one yet. It'll be the brightest part of your day. And if this podcast lasts longer than 20 minutes, call your doctor. Acast helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere.

34:04Thank you.