Why we stopped trusting politicians | Cody Dahler

0:00So last Christmas we ran a Christmas fundraiser where I dressed for some inexplicable reason as Charles Dickens and I got to shout, It's Christmas! And the script was written so it wasn't entirely improvised although we definitely changed some lines. And then the very final line was me looking out to a theatre and saying, Hope is here, it's all of us. And that was meant to be the last line. and then the comedian who was stood next to me went, there's no one there, Zach. And I found myself saying, they'll come, they'll come. And you did come, by the way, look at this.

0:45But it was that same comedian who came up with that line, which is something he does all the time, is just be responsive and in the moment and alive and hopeful. and I'm sure we'll get onto this in a moment that comedy and politics are apparently separate things although over the last few years with conservative governments felt like they blurred the lines to farce sometimes and indeed with the Labour government although it's not always funny. And so comedy is so political and so powerful and that ability to respond to the moment. So with all that, please welcome our guest for Bold Politics tonight, Cody Darla!

1:30Hey, plant prick. Hello. Yes, Starmer's in trouble tonight, isn't he? He does not want to be a fly on the wall in this room. How are you? I'm great. How are you? I'm very well, thank you. I'm very well. It's so nice to be here. That's good. Could you imagine if you're sat there and you're like, I'm not really enjoying being here. It's so nice to come out from behind my phone screen and be able to speak to an actual person. It's amazing.

1:59so the world yes how is it the world how is it yeah i sat down here earlier when we were doing a sound check and zach was like we've not gone over the questions you were going to ask me and you're like oh the one question i will ask you is the world how is it and i was like okay i'll think about that over the next few hours and i i have no real thoughts well no i was actually thinking about this I think the world as awful as everything is at the moment I think the one kind of optimistic thing that more and more people are seeing is that we are becoming alive to the structures and the systems that are the reason everything is shit and it's a shame that it takes so much tragedy in order for people to realize that but you know the oil crisis at the moment We've never been more alive to the idea that we are over-reliant on fossil fuels as we are right now.

2:59And, you know, there have been people hard-working for decades trying to convince people that. And, like I say, it's a shame it takes an event like Donald Trump. But I think that's an optimistic thing. I think things are changing and we know what we need to destroy now. And the answer is Donald Trump. The event that is Donald Trump needs destroying. Yes, we need to destroy him somehow. And when we say destroy, we're talking metaphorically, right, Cody? Well, you might be. Okay, good. Just clarifying. I don't have to say anything. I'm free reign here. I can say whatever I like. I'm interested to see what I can make you say tonight.

3:43Yeah, it's just dawning on me how dangerous this whole adventure is. The Daily Mail editorial team are just hovering over the keyboard. What can we make him say? When things happen in my knees, like Donald Trump and the oil crisis, how do you as a comedian go, I've got to make that funny in the next half an hour? Well, it's interesting because I think people want to laugh. I think everyone has always wanted to laugh. and there's a because this is a question that comes up to anyone who does topical comedy amongst all the misery how do you find the funny it helps that I am looking for the funny if there's an article I will be reading it and I'll be like there will be some funny word that Trump has said or there'll be some funny detail like the other day I got the physical paper which is a bit of a flex I got the subscription for the weekender, The Guardian.

4:42And I was reading, and it's just awful news, awful news, awful news. And then there's an article about Donald Trump buying J.D. Vance and Marco Rubio some shoes. Have you not heard this? No. So he's talking to J.D. Vance and Marco Rubio, and they're talking to him, and he's like, hang on a second, and he leans over, he's like, you guys have shitty shoes. And they're like, okay. And he's like, I need to get you some new shoes. And so he's like, J.D., what size shoe are you? and he's like 13. He's like, Marco, what about you? He's like, 11 and a half. And he sends them these shoes. But the next day, Marco Rubio is pictured in these new shoes and they're too big for him.

5:21So either he's lied about his shoe size or Donald Trump is fucking with him. And both of those are two funny options amongst horrible news stories. But so basically there is a funny thing, even in the awfulness, there will be a funny thing. And again, it's just Donald Trump. He's just funny, isn't he? He's awful, but he's, you know. What can we make Zach say? What can we make Zach say? And when you make your videos, you're often making them for social media. Yes. And so you need to kind of have a hook, don't you? I'm saying it like I don't know what a hook is. Like I'm just... All right, granddad.

5:56On the internet. How do you write those hooks? Or do you kind of go out with your camera and then that's when it comes to you? Well, you sort of learn. I mean, you know, it's a bit of a... You're sort of lumped in with... When you do anything online, you're lumped in with influencers. which is why I've shown such solidarity with my friends in Dubai at the moment. It's been a hard week for us. But basically, especially doing comedy, it's just like anything, you have to do it. You know, for months and months I did it and it was crap and no one watched it. And then eventually you do it and you're like, oh, I guess that was sort of a bit hooky.

6:34And then you make the next video and it's not hooky and you don't learn from it for another few months and then you make another video. And you just do it. And then, yeah, eventually you learn that Zuckerberg has fucked our brains so much that you need to make sure you have a little flashy thing at the start of the video. It's more damning on you guys. It's not damning on me. Okay, I've got to have a hook because you guys have no attention span. But yeah, you just do it. You just learn how to do it. But it's normally, yeah, being like, yeah, what have you done? And people are like, yeah, what has he done?

7:07What has he done? And one of the biggest difference between us is as a politician, I can't blame the audience. Well, we'll see. Yeah, that's true. We'll see. What can we make you say tonight? How political is comedy? I mean, this is my opinion, is that I think comedy is very political. But I mean, you know, there's also a lot of value in people just being silly. I sometimes look at my comedy friends who are doing silly and I kind of feel a bit jealous. because I'm like, I'd love to just be silly. But there's some, I don't know whether it's just because I've always kind of been political, that I do sort of, I think there's real value in having a point to comedy.

7:47But that's kind of weirdly the difference between like comedy, comedy and like satire. And my sort of training is in satire, like worked at the BBC doing satire. And then a lot of my online stuff sort of came out of writing, which in the UK is a lot of it is satire. But I mean, like I say, comedy, it's great when it's silly, but I feel like we're at such a perilous place that there's almost a duty with the way our news is delivered to people, the way our politicians speak to us. It's falling increasingly on people like comedians to sort of speak up for the real progressive side of things. I mean, you'll know this just being a politician.

8:35People don't trust politicians. And this is why you're so inspiring, because people sort of trust you, and it's weird. And so I think being a political comedian is important, but I wish it was less important, because I think it's a product of the fact that people don't trust our media because they lie to us. People don't trust our politicians because they lie to us. It's kind of, you know, a lot of the stuff I do, people comment and they're like, you're my news. And I'm like, that's really worrying. I'm so flattered. But I'm kind of a bit worried about that. Because I might have missed something out in this three-minute reel about Iran.

9:13A lot of stuff has happened. But I think it's very important. But other people would be like, you're talking shit. No, it's not. You've got to laugh. But that's the divide, isn't it? I love the idea that there's someone out there who is learning all their news from your plant prick videos. So we did a video the other day for an event that's tomorrow night, which I haven't come to advertise. That'd be weird if we were doing an event. I'm like, come see me tomorrow night at Troxy. But what I thought was interesting was in the video, you did a skit with me. Yes. The brilliant comedian Francesca Martinez.

9:46Yes. And a little well-known politician called Jeremy Corbyn. What I liked is someone said, you're just flexing who your friends are and who you can get together to do a skit. Yeah, it's true. I know people are like, how do you get them in a room? I was like editing they're not in the same room they're not in the same room oh and Yanis Varoufakis as well Varoufakis was funny I mean he recorded his bit from Greece and so all I got which was very funny was just him because I said to the people who were organising they were like we can get Varoufakis to do it and I was like get Varoufakis and I was like all he needs to do is film himself opening the door and being like hello and then saying I'm from Greece but this whole video obviously he just opens it He's like, hello, but I'm from Greece.

10:33And then he actually repeats that he wasn't happy with the first take. So then there's another pause and he goes, but I'm from Greece, right? And that's the video I have. Nice. It's really quite disturbing. Maybe I should release it. Demonstrating versatility. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He is not going to make it in acting. He's not going to happen. I'm sorry. But I think he's going to be all right. Actors should never go into politics. Terrible idea. Absolutely not. absolutely not how does that ever come up for you do you find you dig deep into your acting bones have you just turned this round on me what could we make it say actually I did come on your own podcast yes you did which is the truth in your opinion the truth in my opinion the truth in your opinion but it's called the truth in my opinion this is like when your party used to get confusing about my party or your party it's not my opinion what goes on on your podcast and how did you get to that idea well on my podcast which is produced by my partner Becky who is basically the brains behind most of what I do hey I'm clapping at someone over there but that's not Becky I don't know where Becky is it kind of goes back to what I was saying about comedy you know news is very depressing for people and rightly so and so the idea of the podcast is called the truth of my opinion and we get a sort of um normally a comedian to come on and bring three headlines that they care about and we talk about them and we sort of talk you make jokes.

11:54But you were, I've had, yes, you were one of the first politicians I've had on. I thought you were about to go, but you I could not get a joke out of. Yeah, no, we tried. I want to talk about how cruel Cody was. So it was the same week where I said I wouldn't work with Keir Starmer because he was untrustworthy. And you said, there's a war, you've got a nuclear weapon, you've got half the codes, Keir's got the other half of the codes, do you work together? I was like, obviously not. Yes! Yes! Yeah, the destruction, the person with the red button we've got to worry about is not Trump, it's you, Zach.

12:27Well, and then I think a final one was I'm gripping the end of a cliff for some reason. I'm about to fall off. I'm about to plummet. You saw a wrapper because it was littering. You didn't like that. Yeah, not at all. So you leant over and you picked it up and you slipped. Important detail. And you're just about to fall off the end and a big hair-gelled hand comes over. The stench of gel. And then I think you created some elaborate pantomime circus type netting, which wasn't involved in the analogy. I thought it was very good. You said, Keir Starmer offers his hand, do you take it? And I say, no, I'm a green, I'm pre-prepared.

13:00There's a safety net underneath and I just bounced down. Yeah, you did. You got out of it. Yeah. You got out of every single one, actually. You did a very good job. Almost sounds slippery. Yeah. He's just like all the rest. No, he's not. No, he's not. We've talked a lot about hope tonight. What's kind of giving you hope at the moment? Well, it's sort of what I said at the beginning, I think. I think there's a lot of the bad stuff that people have been trying so hard to shine the light on is now so obvious. I was thinking about billionaires and how stupid they are. Because it's like winning the lottery.

13:38My grandparents were like, if we won the lottery, we wouldn't tell anyone. Because the neighbours will come round and they'll want a new car. Everyone wants something out of you. I'm like, that is billionaires. Elon Musk there, like, I have built a rocket. You're like, shut up. We wouldn't be coming after you if we didn't know how much money you had and keep advertising how much money you guys have. So even the billionaires are too thick to hide their wealth, and now we're knocking on their door being like, yeah, we want your taxes. So I think it's, yeah, oil, billionaires, and we know who the enemy is now.

14:12Before they were kind of lurking, it was a bit nebulous. it's quite hard to really grip down on who we're trying to defeat here. And they are it. They are the problem. They're so clearly the problem. Fossil fuels are so clearly the problem. People hoarding wealth are so clearly the problem. People not paying their way and supporting public services. That is the problem. And we have a clear route to making them pay and to making things better. We've got a clear route now. We've got a clear route.

14:47I don't know why no one's thought of that. Someone should build a party around that idea. Just as you were talking then, it struck me, lots of comedians are probably lefties. In fact, are lefties, that's true. But I can't think of that many so explicitly political comedians. Well, I mean, your job as a comedian is actually, unless you are literally a political comedian, your job as as a comedian is to kind of like skewer society in some way it's to draw attention to things that are you know either contradictory or ridiculous and often those contradictory ridiculous things are politicians and so it kind of goes hand in hand with being political but like you know there is there is an element of you want to maintain your not necessarily neutrality but you want the freedom to be able to make a joke about everyone because that's sort of your job it's not to push people in one direction because you're not a journalist you're not a politician so i think that's probably why you find or you see comedians who aren't necessarily banging the drum or whatever um and i'm sure that there will be more of them doing it and i'm sure if you talk there's no like secrecy but like your job as a jester especially like i'm not really a stand-up comedian but i'm not but like a lot of stand-up comedians that's what they do it's like social you know you're you're drawing attention to social silliness or political silliness and so you want a level of neutrality because you don't want people you want the freedom to be able to make take the piss out of everyone because that's kind of the art form um so i don't think it's that comedians aren't political i think they're just maintaining their job description and they're just like i've got to got to be able to have a go at everyone it's just you're not really doing anything that's silly well it's quite annoying so i'd really love to make a joke about you I think plant pricks was probably there yeah plant pricks will do for now I put this on social media but I was at an event a few weeks ago where a woman ran after me with I think it was Crochet and she's crocheted plant pricks so that's on my living room now but what I really like I think I told you is my boyfriend didn't really love the plant pricks thing he was a bit earnest about it it was like as vegans I just think it's a bit rude everyone's always at us but now he's with it now he finds it funny so there you go I never expected it to be crocheted to be honest when it first came out of my mouth I didn't expect it to be hanging on your wall which I assume it is yes it is hanging on the bathroom wall that's a demotion it's a bathroom mat this might be an impossible question in which case I'll find another one quickly what's the funniest thing that you can remember happening in politics oh I think the funniest thing and this kind of harks back to the old silly days didn't chris grayling accidentally buy a ferry that's quite funny that's what i'm sort of missing i think that's a lot in fact this goes back to the political comedians thing i think a lot of comedians are missing the stupid silly kind of harmless stuff you're like buying a ferry is so stupid but ultimately harmless like there's no you know there's there's no one's affected by that apart from chris grayling who's got a ferry on his hands I like that also like the mini budget was quite funny if it didn't affect so many people but that's what I mean that's the era we've entered the mini budget was the ferry of our times and that's the problem because the ferries are getting more damaging do you think if you were going to give advice to a politician do you think humour is something politicians should use more often or is it a very dangerous idea yes um i don't think so okay that killed that conversation well it's hard because also a lot of the stuff i do is sort of is kind of journalistic you know like i try i try and like do my research and make a video and i try and make people not thinky thinky dum-dums but like the i'm not a i'm not a journalist and so i have the kind of freedom to be funny and a lot of my like journalist friends are like oh yeah we know we really need to be making news like that for like the ft i'm like the ft cannot go on and be like do you like i think you're a thinky thinky dum-dum well wait till you look at the footsie 500 right no one is going to trust you so it's sort of like i think there is it's nice when it's authenticity for politicians if you ask me and if a if a politician is authentically funny then that's great but But trying to be funny or trying to make it your thing, you know, jokes and stuff, it's just not right.

19:32Just stick in your lane, for God's sake. Got to make a living here. That being said, at some point I might end up on Have I Got News For You. Oh, yes! What advice do you have to people on going Have I Got News For You or any kind of TV show like that? Don't know, never been on it. Let's get Cody on Have I Got News For You. I think, Zach, you've got to be authentic. I think you're a funny guy oh silence sorry by laughter that did sound like a cut off didn't it that's my social media editing coming in no you've got to be authentic you'll be funny we've been in the same room together you've made me laugh you have you've said some horrible things about Keir Starmer it's very funny very very funny we're not going to repeat them in public are we what do you think of Keir Starmer you don't do this no way no yeah no I don't like him obviously there's a part of me that does sometimes I look at him and I feel a bit sorry for him and then I hate myself and then I hate him again then I immediately redirect that hatred I'm like fucking hell the guy's doing his best I feel a bit sorry for him fuck you Keir fuck you so it's sort of I do that a lot and my neighbours hate me for it yes is that a good answer yeah and i wanted to share a story which i don't have permission to share so i when i'm halfway through it just shout stop sharing that story but you film your videos near a church oh yes i do and at some point the church had things to say about the fact you were filming videos well the thing is i was going around being like pretending to be right wingers and things like that sort of screaming and my veins bulging and then it was the the vicar's husband came out one day and was like excuse me excuse me and i tried to avoid him i was like no you're not going to convert me um and then uh uh he eventually stopped me it was like yeah we've you know he's like we've seen you using the church grounds and he was like that's fine that's fine we don't have a problem with that because we've realized our politics are aligned and i realized for a good like two weeks they thought i was some like right wing Manosphere, influencer, going around being like, we've got to get him out!

21:46We've got to get the immigrants out! But I was being satirical. And when they realised that, they enjoyed it. But actually, weirdly, literally this week, I was out filming in the churchyard and another vicar came out of nowhere and was like, I run the church up the road, up the other road, you must come and film there!

22:13I film in the churchyard because it's at the end of my road. I don't hunt down churchyards. I don't have to have gravestones in all of my videos. Have you filmed the video and then looked at it and about to post and you've gone, I can't post that, it's just not funny. Sorry, that's a really cruel question, but I'm being authentic, Cody. The answer is no, I always post it. Well, this is actually what I say to people who want to do online comedy is you must always post, unless you say something horrific in it, don't post it then. But you must always post because, you know, the algorithms are destroying our life.

22:46But for a comedian, the algorithms can be very kind because the algorithm will tell you it's shit and it won't send it to anyone. No one will see it, Zach. So you must post your funny skits. Nice. I feel like it works the opposite way in politics. The post that you shouldn't have sent definitely gets seen by the entire world. That must be quite tricky as a politician. that social media it allows you to connect with so many people but equally like most of the things you say end up online well it's the thing as well the thing that you spend a lot of time on that you sometimes think is really poignant just a few people see and then there's other times like when you film a skit with a comedian advertising a video tonight and everyone just bloody loves it and it goes everywhere and you're like I was trying to talk about the cost of living today and instead all people know is I'm coming to do a live gig which I'm really happy everyone's here yes yes Yes, we'll get him to say it in a minute.

23:43He hates you all. I'm joking. I was going to segue to Thicky Thicky Dum Dum, but that was not linked to what you just said. You've got a thing happening, haven't you? I do, Zach. Yes, I've written a book. I've written a book. Yes, I've written a book. Yeah, I've written a book about British politics, trying to understand it, and trying to... Kind of sort of what I was saying about the systems. I feel very lucky because the systems are now really clear. And I'm like, oh yeah, that's what you've got to write about. Before I was like, politics was quite complicated. But now it's just like, oh yeah, they're all twats now, aren't they?

24:22So I'll just have to write about those. Just pack the book full of twats. And that's what I write about, basically. So if you like the sound of that, it's called A Thicky Thicky Dum Dum's Guide to British Politics. And it is sort of, I actually sort of outsourced the questions to my followers. and I got so many questions that actually some were quite surprising. I didn't think people gave a shit about the House of Lords but loads of people care about the House of Lords and they're like, why is it and why is it full of assholes? So that's one of the chapters. Yes, yes. I feel like I have to say with the exceptions of Baroness Natalie Bennett and Jenny Jones.

24:55Yes, I met Baroness Jones. Oh, okay. Yes, I met her. I had a picture with her and yeah, I think I said to her, I was like, oh, the Lords are shit, isn't it? She was like, not all of us. We're not all shit. I have to say, in defence of Natalie Bennett in particular, her first day as a peer, she walked up to the front desk and said, how do I abolish my own job? Very nice. I like that. It's a very green story. She's still there, though, isn't she? She is still there. Still trying to abolish her job. Still signing on. And if someone buys a book and reads it, so it's a British guide to politics. Yes, it is.

25:33so it's basically sort of the last I guess the last 50 years but it's told within the structure of questions so like you know why is our rent so high goes back to Thatcher and getting rid of selling off council houses and things like that and it goes up to the modern day why is all our food expensive why was Brexit a catastrophe and why is no one admitting it so it's questions that are very relevant and poignant to us but that actually might have a history that most people kind of aren't super aware of so it's also quite easy in this climate to be like, I can't afford my rent and that is shit and that's just how things are.

26:07But I think, this is what I write about in my book, there are actually very clear reasons why those things are happening and it's because of our politicians being really bad. And if we recognise the decisions that led up to those things happening, it makes it seem like a problem that is easier to solve. And so much of researching the book, you realise that so much of political mismanagement has been blamed on immigrants and scapegoats. And you're like, there's a reason that is all our media and politicians want us to talk about. It's because they don't want us to look under the bonnet and realise that they've been fucking everything up for like 50 years.

26:49And it's their fault.

26:56Yeah. And it's all so funny, hopefully. it's all so funny there are people in the audience who will use social media and put themselves out on social media in fact i know some of them are here i know there'll be lots of people who won't post because it's quite a vulnerable thing right yes to put yourself on video yes what kind of advice would you give to people if they're like i want to start making content or start creating things but i'm just worried about it well it's honestly it's an unfortunate answer because it is you just have to do it it's like sort of doing anything becoming a painter you've got to paint if you want to be a writer you've got to write it's one of those, it's such a daunting thing because you are it's not like even, it's kind of even worse than going and doing stand up or going on a stage or something because if you bomb or whatever, there's only about 12 people who know you've done it, whereas you put it online you think the whole world knows, but like I said earlier about the algorithms, the evil algorithms there is, it does sort of protect you in a way, because if you do put stuff up, you need to, what you need to do is you need to prime your close friends who see everything you do and be like, listen, I'm going to be a bit embarrassing over the next few months.

28:02And then you'll get better and then your content will get better and more people will see it. So you just have to do it, unfortunately. Yes. I mean, that's pretty good advice. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, you've got to do it. Just do it. And also, like, people, I think people think that you're immediately going to have like a sort of social media pile on and everyone's going to hate you. There will be unpleasant people there, but it isn't like, it's not every post. Maybe every one in three. Just don't post the third one. No, you must always post. I don't know, I'm contradicting myself here. Yeah, this has got very confusing, Cody.

28:36Yes, sorry. Just leave it to me. No, I'm joking, I'm joking. That's so arrogant. It was going so well and now I've ruined it. And then my very final easy question to you. Can we tackle the climate crisis? Yes, of course we can. Of course we can tackle it. Like I say, now we know what the problem is. And we just need a political leadership who are willing to say no to the people who are paying for them. And that's why they've not been saying no, because they're paying for the politicians to say, yeah, you can keep drilling or whatever. You are not paid for by them. So yeah, we can vote green. Thank you very much, Cody.

29:21Thank you.