Burnham prepares for first Labour conference as leader

21:39Paddy O'Connell:And because you'd enjoyed listening to Jonathan, you didn't really hang about. I didn't hang about because I kind of realised what it was. I never have headaches. I've never had a really serious illness in my life so far, again touching wood, and I knew this was something out of the blue and out of the ordinary and it had to be stained to pretty quickly. Because am I right that you'd also lost the use of your left arm? I had indeed, but that wasn't until after I'd arrived at the hospital. That was a significant problem. And then they worked out that it was possible, if you're caught within a so-called golden period, I think it's four and a half hours from your first symptoms, that they can thrombolise you with this drain cleaner they described it of.

22:36Paddy O'Connell:It's seriously ahead and it goes through your whole system, knocking out all the blood clots and so on, all the impurities. And they thought, hmm, should we do this? Because that can lead to problems as well. It can lead to bleeds, unexpected bleeds. So they then have to scan you again to make sure that hasn't caused any further problems. However, they decided I was within the period and they thrombolyzed me. And gradually my arm came back to life. and it's now restored to perfect, you know, I can play the piano again. Oh, wow. Or the violin. It's amazing because you couldn't play it before. No, it's amazing.

23:14That's the joke. That's the old gag.

23:16Paddy O'Connell:No, listen, we're so chuffed to hear from you, Harry. The question everyone will be asking is, what were you going to finish the risotto off with? Ah, well, it was a fig risotto. Would you like me to go to a recipe? Well, why not? You get the figs, you roast them, you split them, you roast them gently, and then you blitz them, saving a couple for garnish, and you mix in the blitzed, which is now sort of fig puree, into the risotto with a scattering of walnuts. And bingo, it's magic. My wife put the risotto base into the fridge, kept it until, this was a Sunday, kept it until the Wednesday. I came home on Tuesday and I finished it off on Wednesday and cooked it.

24:05Paddy O'Connell:And it was marvellous. May I just add to our conversation how good the backup is from the NHS? It's not just the hospital treatment. Within a day or two, I had a nurse around here. The backup is superb. And so far, I can say that it's bringing me back to normality in my mind as well as body. OK, I'm so chuffed. We wish you long, happy fig risottos, gardening workouts, GMTs. I may just say that I was sitting in my best dinner jacket because you're speaking to the nation like Alva Liddell.

24:44John Deere is putting in work and putting up highlights. Oh, man, look at those passes. Tillage, planting, harvesting. Three years in, and these pre-owned machines are still at the top of their game. We're talking reliability, performance and long-term potential.

24:59Paddy O'Connell:And get this, these veteran machines can pick up the latest precision tech with ease. You know it, and fans ready to add John Deere certified pre-owned equipment and more options to their lineup can shop at machinefinder.com. Booyah!

25:15Paddy O'Connell:Let's talk about the major incident in Gloucestershire. Police have arrested several men on suspicion of offences under the Explosives Act. They have evacuated a number of homes in the area. Danny Shaw was an advisor to the Home Office after a long career as a correspondent here at the BBC. Danny, welcome. Good morning, Paddy. What is RAF Fairford used for? Well, RAF Fairford is a military base. It was opened actually during the Second World War and was used there to support the landings in Normandy. But more recently, it's been a base used by U.S. bombers since the Middle East conflict. It was being used, according to the Ministry of Defense, for defensive missions to destroy Iran's missile capabilities.

26:11so US Air Force operations have been heavily involved at Fairford and of course going back a little bit it was used in the Iraq war 2003 in fact there was a anti-war activist broke into RAF Fairford and there was a very high profile trial of the so-called Fairford 5 so it's it's always been at sort of the center of important military operations but also the center of controversy as well.

26:41Paddy O'Connell:Right, so US bombers are there active in the recent weeks and people are being arrested on explosives charges linked to searches of vehicles. Yes, this is what we've heard from Gloucestershire Police. They are saying that a number of properties are being evacuated in the Welford area. Now Welford is a village about a 50-minute walk from RAF Fairford, which is in the Cotswolds and they are saying Gloucestershire police that this follows the arrest of several men on suspicion of offences under the Explosives Act. They have declared a major incident. The Army Specialist Explosive Ordnance Disposal Team are looking into a number of vehicles in the area.

27:28Local residents are being moved to a nearby leisure centre and significantly the police are saying that the incident is contained, they believe. That was the update that was given just about an hour ago. So I'm sure, you know, things are happening on the ground very quickly. I have to say, I think it's significant that the local force, Gloucestershire Police, are dealing with this at the moment. There's no suggestion at the moment of counter-terrorism police being involved, although I'm sure they have been informed and may be, you know, involved at a later stage. but it appears that it's something that's sort of come to light quite recently and because the local force is sort of examining it and dealing with it initially.

28:15Paddy O'Connell:Okay. Danny, we won't go further than what you are helping us with because our listeners prefer us not to speculate. But I think we've got the picture thanks to you. Thank you very much. And as you heard, Johnny will be here at 1pm when much more will be known. Hundreds of people are openly queuing for buses in Calais to take them to boats run by people smugglers. So says the MP for Dover, who's just been to France. I went to the White Cliffs after one of two undetected vessels landed there last week. The numbers of crossings are down this year, but two records have been broken for 2026. 781 people who crossed in one day is the highest one-day figure this year.

29:01Paddy O'Connell:The local Labour MP Mike Tapp, who previously was an immigration minister under Keir Starmer, wants the new PM to convene the Government Emergency Committee Cobra, and he met me on the Dover beaches.

29:17Paddy O'Connell:I'm at Samphire Ho on the Kent coast with my back to the White Cliffs. To my left is Dover to the east, and it was here a couple of nights ago that a dinghy was seen which had made its way to the beach undetected by Border Force Command. Many people were seen getting out of it. The Home Office later saying 21 had been detained, although not making it plain if others are missing. The local MP for the Dover area is Mike Tapp. This sort of incident has reduced significantly over the last few years. Prior to 2022, there were many getting through and landing on the beaches in this constituency and further afield as well.

29:58but because of the technology we've got in place from the Coast Guard, Border Force and of course the Border Security Command now we have been able to intercept almost all of them. We have had to get through. The Home Secretary is called review, that's the right thing to do. I would go further, I think it's time to convene COBRA and the reason for that is I believe we need all gears of government moving in one direction to try and solve this problem. So we're talking DWP looking at benefits, HMRC looking at illegal working, MHCLG looking at asylum, housing, foreign office looking at those upstream relationships, particularly with the French, MOD, home office, the list goes on.

30:39We need everyone in one room. This is at that point now.

30:44Paddy O'Connell:Can I ask what you're fishing for today? Rass, Pollock, Gurnard. And anything, any tight lines? Yes, we've had quite a few today. We've had about 25 fish between us. What is the feeling here about an undetected boat making it here? Well, it's very upsetting because you don't know who's about. You know, they could be rapists, murderers. You don't know what's coming in this country. Do you think that some of them are desperate and seeking safety as well? Oh, definitely some of them are, without a doubt. But, you know, you just don't know, do you? Small boat crossing numbers are down year on year, but the street protests are louder and it seems more coordinated.

31:37Paddy O'Connell:This has been going on for a very long time. BH first reported on this when a listener wrote to us to say when he drove his truck through Calais, people constantly tried to board it. We can hear our report from 2014. I'm from Eritrea. And are you trying to get onto a van, onto a truck? Yeah, we are waiting for our trucks. Where do you want to go? England. What would you say if I tell you that we have many people in our country who, they want your human rights respected, but they really don't want more people? Yeah, I heard it, I heard it. But when you reach Queen, they will accept us. Queen. When you reach the Queen?

32:17Paddy O'Connell:You think you're going to get to the Queen? Yeah. because she knows our problem, man.

32:24Paddy O'Connell:A year or so later, I went further down the coast here to the Coast Guard pub when locals drinking in the garden behind me were staggered to see evidence of frequent small crossings in dinghies. Not the giant boats of today, but little dinghies. And we came down then as people were desperate for the government to take note. We've seen ribs come into the bay. We've seen a group of people who we thought were illegal immigrants who walked round the base of the cliff and then into cars and then driven off. So do you think that there was a spike in little boats coming over and do you think it's now being tackled?

33:01Paddy O'Connell:I think there definitely was a spike. I think people coming across in boats was really not considered an option. I think people thought it was all going to stay to trucks and the tunnel. So now, all these years later, people are not surprised. they are angered and of course they are sympathetic in some cases but I spoke to people around me here about the trend and what had changed in the public mood in that 11 years. I sympathise with the people that are on these boats to be honest. Do you sympathise with people who would like it stopped? I understand why people may feel like that but then I do feel for the people who are just trying to better themselves.

33:40It's getting worse they keep saying it's getting better but it's not.

33:44Paddy O'Connell:So it's interesting because the number is coming down, so that would be one way of saying it's getting better. Well, so they tell us. Well, it is a true figure. Yeah, but what's slipping through what we don't know about? They do like to be angry, I think, in this day and age. But equally, if you're in a little village or a town where these people are and you actually see them arriving, then you can't blame them for being angry, I don't think. While the official numbers here in the UK might be going down, Across the border in Calais, the situation seems strikingly similar to when I visited 12 years ago.

34:19Paddy O'Connell:Here is the Dover MP, Mike Tapp again. He was there on Friday. We visited an abandoned camp. We found nappies and baby carriers. Now, that suggests to me that there's kids who are on their way to the beaches whose lives are going to be at risk, but also saw perhaps up to 1 ,000 men all walking to a bus stop to get a bus to be taken to the seafront. It was quite shocking, the numbers that were there. And I've spoken to French politicians who have said that they really do support the immediate returns idea because it would absolutely finish that business model and you wouldn't then get those encampments in the north of France.

34:57And not only that, you'd stop those transiting through France to reach the north. So it's definitely something we need to be pursuing. Does it look like state failure, a failure of both states? One of the issues with migration is it's very complex. This is one of the greatest countries in the world, so of course they're going to want that better life. It's on us to ensure that that's controlled. There's more to do, which is why I'd like to see Cobra convened and more conversations with the French around immediate returns.

35:25Paddy O'Connell:That's the Dover MP Mike Tapp. He's mentioning French politicians who want immediate returns, and we will be on the phone to them in the coming weeks. We'd love to hear from you too, as you very well know. Can you name the southernmost settlement in the UK? Our colleague Petro Cialorn, he joins us from there now. He's hosting the Big Lighthouse Weekend on Radio 3. Petro, are you in a lighthouse? I am. I'm in a white lighthouse, actually. I've just climbed the steps to the lantern of St Agnes Lighthouse, which was built in 1680. There used to be a big grate in here because it was lit with a coal fire.

36:00Paddy O'Connell:glass all around it's wonderfully echoey but come with me Paddy because I'm going to take you out onto the deck of the lighthouse where it's blowing quite a hoolie out here but the view is fantastic I'm looking out west towards Bishop Rock Lighthouse about four miles out from the Isles of Scilly Archipelago and beyond that there's nothing until you get to America Wow, we're loving listening in the nicest possible way Pat Jock can you remain silent for ten seconds of course

36:41Paddy O'Connell:now you've got there on the Salonian 3 were you nostalgic it's going out of service after 50 years it is it was quite a journey for me because I've made I think half a dozen crossings over the years on Salonian 3 it is a beautiful ship elegant smart part of Cornish and Isles of Scilly history, really, linking in Penzance and St Mary's since 1977. The Royal Mail Ship, the RMS Salonian, there are only three Royal Mail Ships left in the world, and it is getting decommissioned at the end of this year, so its last sailings will be on the 7th of November, and then next year there'll be Salonian 4, which is currently sitting in the dockyard in Ho Chi Minh City in Vietnam, where it's being built, but it's about to set off on a two-month journey from Vietnam to Penzance.

37:27Paddy O'Connell:Quite a change of worlds. The editor has briefly laid down her hip flask and asked me to use the phrase vomit comet. That is one of the nicknames for the Salonian. It does toss and turn a bit on the high seas. It rolls a little. It was fine yesterday. I had one of their delicious bacon sandwiches and that sustained me for the journey across. But on blustery, gusty days like today, it can be a bit unpleasant, The new boat apparently has special wings. I was talking to the first officer and he was explaining that it's got these wings that will come out when they get into open water and steady the craft as it passes Land's End and moves from the calm of the English Channel into the rougher Atlantic Ocean.

38:11Paddy O'Connell:And just for fans of geography and facts, what is the southernmost settlement in the UK? It is St Agnes, one of the outer islands of the Isles of Scilly. It's a great place. I'm looking down on the church. I can just see over in the distance the Turks Head pub. That's going to go on to winter hours soon, which means it will only be open one night a week. There's a primary school, there's a post office, there's a post lady who drives around in a very smart electric red Royal Mail van. It's all happening on St Agnes, but it is, as you say, the most southerly settlement of the United Kingdom. Lovely.

38:46Paddy O'Connell:Thank you so much, Petro, we're borrowing you. And Lighthouse Weekend is on Radio 3. You can listen constantly and in the past. Elegant, smart and 50. And so is the Salonian. It's quarter to ten. Here are three of the best to give us some news reviews. Lucy Beresford is the psychotherapist and podcaster of On The Couch. Do you have guests on the couch, On The Couch? Not literally. Oh, go on. Why don't you put them on the couch? I know. They wouldn't let me. I usually ask, but they don't say. Paul Brand is UK editor of ITV News. He's gathered real family accounts for his book, Fight to the Death, human stories from the assisted dying debate.

39:25Paddy O'Connell:Paul, does this mean there are sometimes differences within families about this? Absolutely. You know, people slipping off to assisted dying clinics to die in secret often without their family knowing. So the book kind of pulls together experiences from around the world and asks the question of how are these systems bedding in? Where is it relatively stable? Where are the furthest frontiers of assisted dying being pushed in places like the Netherlands where children and the mentally ill, dementia patients even are having assisted dying, all told through those extraordinary human stories. Don't tell us your view, but did it change your view, asking hundreds of people?

39:58Paddy O'Connell:Yeah, and I think what I was pleased about with the book is that people who've read it say their view changes from chapter to chapter, actually. Not many of us change our views anymore. And Lara Lewington is the technology writer and broadcaster. Lara, welcome back. Thank you very much. Always good to join you. We'll start with you, Lucy. A story that couples who don't really like each other stay together because it's cheaper. And this is from The Observer and also The Guardian. Did some coverage of this earlier in the week. Yes, it's an article that actually asks why couples are getting divorced later, why people are staying longer in their marriages.

40:33And the example they give initially is a woman who knew she wanted to be out of the marriage but made herself financially secure. So the article is really exploring why people would do that. And there's a lecturer from the University of West England who has pointed to the fact that women are overwhelmingly the main instigators in divorce. But I was struck by two studies from Ashley Madison, the discretion-led dating website people. They identified after the pandemic that a lot of people were staying in marriages that they didn't want to be in, primarily because of financial issues. But actually, because women are taking more control of their finances, their careers, their fertility, their sexual pleasure, that actually they are making the choice.

41:21I'm going to stay until I know that I'm going to be financially secure later on.

41:26Paddy O'Connell:Is it also possible that people are happier in relationships which they start later? So, Paul, do you think that people who get together later in life might be less likely to split up than people who get together at the very start? Because they know themselves a bit better and they've had a few boyfriends, girlfriends along the way and, yeah, potentially, I think. We've had a few. But I also have a few friends who've had really amicable divorces, actually, where they haven't wanted to rush out of their family home straight away because they've been able to get along well enough to stay in the family home.

41:57And sometimes it's better for the kids, maybe for that short period while they're establishing themselves rather than ripping the family apart immediately with great drama. Take your time over it. Yes. What I would say to the people who get married a little bit later in life is that sometimes they repeat the same patterns from earlier relationships. so it works if you do know yourself well enough but if you haven't done any work on yourself psychologically the chances are I'll just end up in the same boat.

42:23Paddy O'Connell:Do the work. Oh dear, that sounds exhausting. Much easier just to repeat the same mistake. Lara Lewington, tech writer, where would you start for us today? Well, I'm actually going to start on an AI story. Good. So it seems that the chat at dinner parties these days, I've been waiting for this moment, is all about AI And so you need to know your AI terms like chatbots, LLMs, foundation models. What do they all mean? These things nobody wanted to talk about years ago. Suddenly I've become a guest that people don't mind having. And people are embarrassed if they don't know what the terms mean. So people are trying to brush up on their AI terminology.

43:02Paddy O'Connell:This is sparked by an article in the Sunday Times. Are you happy, Paul, you know your AI terms? What isn't LLM, please? A large language model. So this is something like ChatGPT, Gemini, Claw, those platforms that many of us are using that are using prediction to predict what word is likely to follow. What worries me, Paddy, is we used to be the people who explain these sorts of things. We used to be the journalists who would explain difficult concepts. And now the AI is getting so complex that we can't even explain it ourselves. The idea that it could take over the world. Who is going to cook the food for the dinner party?

43:33AI will never be able to do that for you.

43:35Paddy O'Connell:It won't. And I always thought AI stood for artificial insemination, but that's because of... I mean, that's very dated, that view. Yes, it is a bit. You can see that I won't be alongside you. So Sunday Times is saying, know your AI. Paul Brand, we want you to do some live analysis for us. We know you've been reading the papers for us, but we're just going to listen to Andy Burnham. He's been speaking to Laura Koonsberg on the TV. He says he wants to change social care provision. Let's listen to him moments ago. I am talking about a system that works on NHS principles. So free at the point of use and universal?

44:10Paddy O'Connell:That is the only way that you can make it work. There is free personal care elsewhere in the UK. In Scotland. I don't think it's right that people in England don't get the same. And it's not something that we're going to rush. We can't rush because the challenge in the public finances is real. so it has to be done carefully without putting extra strain on the public purse but to be honest with you broken social care will in the end break the national health service if we leave it like it is so paul is the uk editor for itv news he's doubling down on his talk of social care provision yeah i think what people in the social care sector may feel though hearing that is they have heard these promises before i mean i covered the care home crisis during the covid pandemic quite extensively, for example, and people were hopeful then that maybe Boris Johnson was going to reform social care.

45:00Paddy O'Connell:He promised when he entered number 10 that that was going to be one of his number one priorities. I think Andy Burnham's commitment is more genuine, perhaps, than some other Prime Ministers before him. Has he got the money? Well, no. That's what I was about to say, Paddy, is where's the money going to come? And he admitted that, really, in what he just said, didn't he? Okay, fine. So that's live and happening while we've been on the air. We wanted to bring it to you. Thank you for doing that. I probably didn't expect to be doing that when you came in this morning. Lucy Beresford, the Mail on Sunday.

45:25Paddy O'Connell:Sir Ranulph Fiennes' stepson says the mum has been controlling him, that's Sir Ranulph, from day one. Can you summarise the story for us a little bit? Sir Ranulph Fiennes has not been seen by many of his friends and family for nearly two years. And his second wife is estranged from her own son. And it is the son that has given an interview to a couple of papers saying, I've tried the police, I can't seem to get any information. and it's an interesting story because it talks about it's obviously a story about old age and it's about relationships but it's also about the legalities of it the power of attorney that because the second wife has power of attorney over sarano fines and his his care nobody else has been able to get any information and i was thinking about this and how it relates to you know so many of us are going to live much longer and we're going to have to have these issues around who is going to look after us when we don't have that capacity.

46:23There's an incredible film that's just been released called The Queen of Sea, starring Juliette Binoche and I think it's John Wilkinson. And again, it's about a couple where it's an elderly couple. The woman has dementia. They still have a healthy sex life, but her daughter is finding issues around consent and troubling, very troubled as to whether her mother is affected by that. This is the kind of thing that we're all going to have to start thinking about.

46:53Paddy O'Connell:So thank you for raising it. A lot of work's been done by the Telegraph newspaper. I'll just do some chairing. Mrs Millington-Coates has been contacted for comment, hasn't spoken. We've learned a lot in this article about the Office of the Public Guardian, which is about our care when we go outside of our own agency, really. Paul, this is quite linked to work you've done. If we don't talk about this specific story anymore, what's raised by it? I think all these questions about autonomy and capacity and consent, as Lucy says, I mean, one of the things I looked at in the book was this idea that we're living longer, but we're not living healthier necessarily.

47:27Paddy O'Connell:There's this gap now between how long we live and how long we live healthily for. So it's raising all of these questions all the time about when can we consent. And in some countries, for example, just to mention in relation to assisted dying, some people are now signing these advanced directives if they get dementia saying, please give me an assisted death when I reach X kind of point. Is that a clue there? We should be signing something about our future, Lucy, when we're healthy? Well, so it's interesting because Lara also has a book that covers these kinds of things and it's very much about the personalised choice.

48:01I think if you try to make it too legalised, people won't feel like they have that agency, that actually it has to be done on an individual basis.

48:10Paddy O'Connell:OK, let's move on from the subject there. Lara, I'm sorry, I'm going to change the subject because you've got a linked story, which is in the Sunday Mirror. Amanda Barry, I'm lucky at 91 to be able to carry on work. Yeah, that's right. It is linked, this idea of closing the gap on health span and lifespan. She feels incredibly grateful that she can still keep working at this age. She says, all you've got to do, darling, is carry on breathing and be curious. But interestingly, as many of her friends around her have sadly died, she won't delete them from her phone book. She keeps them all stored on her phone.

48:43But she's had an amazing career. Many of us know her as Alma from Coronation Street. She'd started in carry-on films back in the 1950s. So she has kept on going herself for a very long time. But, of course, it gets us all thinking, what age do we want to work until? I suppose it depends largely what you do, a physical job. Obviously, you've got to give up. But, BH, you can present this until what age, Paddy?

49:03Paddy O'Connell:I think the sell-by date's been reached. But, Paul, what do you make of Amanda at 91? I think it's great. I think it's great. And if you've got a vocation that you love, why would you want to give it up? But then I am also conscious that that is a bit of a privilege, right? That some of us are lucky enough to do jobs that we love. Some people don't love going to work. The Sunday Times, Paul. To rinse or not to rinse? Not to rinse. And I really hope my dad's listening, because every time I go home to see my father, he is fastidious about rinsing every last piece of recycling. And I always say to him, the amount of water you're using to rinse this recycling, it can't possibly be better for the planet.

49:38And now the Times has vindicated me this morning because the head of Veolia, you know, the rubbish collecting company, says there's no point sort of rinsing them to the nth degree. Fine, if you've got half a jar of tomato sauce or something, chuck that out before you put it in the recycling. Why aren't you eating it? Why are you not eating the tomato sauce? Well, it might have gone off or something, Lucy. But also, what's the Kossoff point? At what point is it clean enough? Isn't that another argument? He doesn't quite go into that detail. This is the 2026 version of how to load the dishwasher, which, just to be clear, there is a right way to load the dishwasher.

50:09Oh, there totally is. You don't want anyone else near your dishwasher. Probably not even your partner.

50:13Paddy O'Connell:Let's just divert to talk about the right way. Then what is the right way to load the dishwasher, Lucy Berthra? Well, there is a jigsaw when you're fitting all of the different pieces together so that you can completely fill it. You don't just bung in six items and then set it off. And every dishwasher has a different way that it should be loaded because they don't all have cutlery in the same place. Yeah, cutlery in the top drawer. That was an eye-opener for me when I got a new dishwasher. What on earth is it doing in the top drawer? Also plates that are too big to fit. They shouldn't be sold.

50:40They shouldn't be legal.

50:41Paddy O'Connell:And Lucy Beresford, social media draws the young back to the sunbed from The Observer. Well, this is incredible. It just shows you how things go in cycles. Because when I was in my 20s, there was a very big campaign to stop people using sunbeds, which I have to confess is something that I used to do. but then I do chase the sun all the time. Nowadays the cases of skin cancer have risen by 7 % over the past decade just in people who are kind of just under 50 but for the I suppose for the under 34s what they're really seeing is they watch influencers on social media they also get told so-called benefits of using sunbeds and therefore they think that it's a healthy alternative So it's two stories in one, really.

51:33Some beds haven't become more healthy. And how does social media promote unhealthy medical information? I was surprised by this story because I thought Gen Z and all of those who use social media were supposed to be so much more health conscious and so much more educated. I had very early stages of skin cancer, thankfully not serious at all. And it was very successfully treated without much impact. But, you know, I'm very cautious about my sun use now. And I thought all of Gen Z were looking at how to, you know, look beautiful and perfect. And going on a sunbed is not going to make you look any younger.

52:04Paul, I'm sorry for what you've been through. But the really weird thing here is we are putting so much research, thought, time into what is causing rises in cancer in the under 50s. But we know the answer here. Yet people are still doing it. And that's the problem. You can't stop the pesky humans.

52:21Paddy O'Connell:What a relief. Yeah, but it comes to AI, that's the issue too. Thank you all very much indeed. Very, very interesting to hear your picks and please come back. Thank you so much. We were listening to Lucy Beresford, Paul Brand and Lara Lewington. Today's producers were Natasha Mayo and Olivia Sopel. Remarkable studio direction from Gabriel O 'Regan. The editor was Sam Mason-Jones. Thank you for listening. And from our team to yours, goodbye. It felt like everything I believed in was suddenly collapsing. This is the story of an Islamic boarding school in Indonesia with a dark secret of the school's head teacher.

52:58This was someone I respected above anyone else. And the investigation led by students he's trying to silence.

53:07Paddy O'Connell:If this is leaked to the media, I'll be destroyed. This is World of Secrets, catching my teacher. Listen on BBC.com, the BBC app, or wherever you get your BBC podcasts. you