England's mayors to get more planning powers

23:49In the decades since, the decline in the industry brought layoffs, crises and talk of closure. but the yard with the yellow cranes is sparking up again. In the blocking shop, the welders are working on red metal structures. Some of the first parts of the ship are taking shape. There's a sign telling us that this is ship number 1744 to be made in the city. Titanic was 401, HMS Belfast was 1000.

24:26So we're inside the fabrication halls. The bit we're standing in now is the new extension, so it's 5 ,000 square metres. The steel plates come in through these two doors behind us. They get cut to size. The first station, the panel line, will mill one side, get a good surface, and goes on to the next station where one-sided welder will weld two plates together. Then goes on to a flip-over station. There's a bit of excitement around this plate in front of us, being 70 tonnes. It's certainly on the upper limit. Once it gets flipped we're able to weld the second side, the steel plate stiffeners, T-beams get welded onto that and it forms part of the blocks that will be used to form the ship.

25:04It's a cross-generational moment with skills being passed on and the workforce expanding majorly. My name is Brian Welch, I'm the operations training manager. I started in the years in apprentice in 1980. I served my time as a steel worker. I left 10 years later for 26 years, come back to the shipyard here, stood at the gate with the rest of the guys to try and keep the place open. All we talked about at the gate was we need apprentices and we got an apprentice, screwed up and run up. We started off with about five or six apprentices and this year in September I'm bringing in 66 new apprentices to the yard here.

25:38It's going to be my legacy and I hope and pray that someday they end up on a job like mine as a manager in the shipyard. My name's Zach Lockhart, I'd literally just turned 18 there, so I joined right after my 17th birthday. My dad worked here about 30 years ago as well, so it's good to stay in the family. It's also just interesting, there's lots of opportunity and there's a lot of investments coming in, so there'll be a lot of work to do. After years of uncertainty, this historic shipyard is charting a new course.

26:09Paddy O'Connell:Chris Page reporting. Steve Murdoch is Business Development Director at Navantia UK, which is the owner of Harland and Wolfe. Steve, welcome to BH. Thank you, Paddy. I mean, just tell me the role of these two iconic cranes, Samson and Goliath, on you as you grew up. Yeah, well, indeed, I'm from Northern Ireland. And I remember as a little boy in the 1970s, school trip into Harland and Wolfe to see these two massive yellow cranes. And I tell you, Paddy, It's so exciting, you know, decades later to go back to Belfast and see these things that are iconic in Belfast and just always are there on the Belfast skyline.

26:52And with Novantia now investing over£100 million, bringing these things back to life again. It's fantastic.

26:59Paddy O'Connell:I was listening to Chris's report. Titanic was number 401. HMS Belfast was 1 ,000. And the ship there now is 1 ,744. it's easy to stand on the shoulders of giants now well indeed and hope better a chance to have us than samson and goliath how many apprentices will this work create so across our four sites in in the uk we operate in england scotland and northern ireland we're a real united kingdom company we have over 220 apprentices at the moment and we hope to have 500 apprentices by 2030 so it's real opportunities for youngsters I think the government have signalled an intent to re-industrialise shipbuilding so there are careers for these young people and it's really really exciting to be part of it and also the line is a little bit dodgy I wish you were building our line as well as our ship But I'm going to ask you one final question because listeners will be aware that it's a very uncertain world and that in part, the good news of these jobs comes alongside the troubling news in the world and the defence spending that the uncertain world is having really explains why you're building again.

28:20Yeah, I mean, I think that having a military force that is capable and signals deterrence to potential adversaries is hugely important. But part of that deterrence is also the industrial capability to demonstrate to potential adversaries that industrially we're ready to deal with whatever challenges come our way.

28:43Paddy O'Connell:OK, yeah, it's a fascinating argument. There's a lot of people talking about how the defence money is going to be spent on drones or ships or both. Thank you very much for your window on the horizon of Belfast. Steve Murdoch, Business Development Director at Navanta UK. And just an apology to you listening, it's not the best of lines, but I hope you heard the message. We're back on the allotment to ask what's fared well for harvest in the heatwave. On 5 Live, Matt Chorley found a farmer in Devon switching to growing melons. What's it like for amateur growers? We asked a trio of well-known voices, starting with Radio 4 favourite and media star Katie Razzle, who shares her allotment with a friend.

29:27The tomatoes have been brilliant. So many varieties, just delicious and a joy. And the basil underneath them and the chives and all the herbs are doing brilliantly. I have to say, the disasters have been, well, all my area. The sweet corn, absolutely disastrous. I thought it was the drought, but I think it's actually mice and birds eating the corn cobs before I can get to them. Also disastrous, the runner beans. They did grow, but I don't know whether we were away for a key bit when they needed to be watered because they are really, really hard and not particularly nice on the whole. And the cucumbers, absolutely disastrous.

30:01Really, really bitter, even with the skins off. I think that is because of the drought. So sad times.

30:09Hello, this is John Curtis, who's Professor of Politics at the University of Strathclyde, but also an allotment holder for many, many years in the city of Glasgow. So what's gone well? Raspberries have gone very well this year, though my red currants and gooseberries are not so successful. I think I need to do more winter pruning. Root vegetables, fantastic. We don't have a drought in Scotland, so my carrots are looking wonderful. The parsnips are looking wonderful. for cabbage and sprouts middling, some runner beans appearing, but I haven't been able to grow a lettuce leaf for the whole of the summer, despite numerous attempts.

30:50Hello, my name is Frances Tophill, and I am a gardener by profession, though you wouldn't necessarily know that, looking at my allotment this year. And I'm based down in Devon, so normally it's fairly wet down here. I had fantastic pea crops so broad beans peas and now the climbing french beans have all done really well this year. Potatoes were very small and very reduced and I found my courgettes this year have been very mildewy and producing an awful lot of male flowers not female flowers so not very many fruits forming although the plants themselves are still there. I suppose every year is different and we gardeners are used to the challenges.

31:31Paddy O'Connell:That's fabulous. Thank you to everyone for that. Live to the Rhondda to join Terry Walton, allotment man for BBC Radio Wales and Radio 2. Hello, Terry. Good morning, buddy. Long time. Long time. And Wilford Emanuel Jones is here, one of our guests who's also a farmer. Wilford, you can join in in a minute. Terry, have you ever known a summer like this in Wales? Yes, 1976, buddy. I was gardening then. I said, I've given away my age, you know. What can we read into the fact that Katie Razzle can't get her runners going, but Frances can in Devon. She's got great broad beans. Katie Razzle's doomed.

32:08Paddy O'Connell:Her runners are doomed. Same with me this year. Runner beans, any climbing bean has done rather badly. The trouble is there's been that super heat and beans like the humidity to be high for the flowers to set. And they like lots of water at their roots. They like to be cooler. and the superheated sessions we had, the five of them, have really made the flowers drop and the beans, believe it or not, have been sunburned. Soon they're three or four inches long. They start to turn brown and tough because the heat is too much for them. And John Curtis can get his raspberries growing but not his red currants and gooseberries.

32:44Paddy O'Connell:I would have thought he must be doing something specifically wrong because those are a sort of fruit which should go all or none, shouldn't they? They would, yeah, because they're all similar. So one thing, that obviously is down to some ground conditions or just unlucky on his raspberry patch. Because it's been a good year for soft fruit down in Rwanda. It's grown well, everybody's harvested well. It was a bit earlier than planned. And blackberries in the edge rows this year have been a good two to three weeks ahead of schedule and they're lovely and juicy. Wilfred, it's been a horrible time for farmers, livestock and growers of fruits and veg, isn't it?

33:21It's been terrible. I want you all to sympathize with me, okay? Because one of the reasons I bought my farm was because my father had an allotment. It was my job to look after this allotment. And everywhere I've gone, I've always had somewhere where I could grow stuff. Down at my shop at Television Center, I've even got a little patch that I've created. And I haven't been able to go down to that for the last six weeks because I broke my knee. And every day I'm ringing in, how are the plants doing? How are the plants doing? And if I go in and in and these plants have died because these people are not watering, it's going to break my heart.

33:52Paddy O'Connell:Oh, well, let's hope they are. So watering's the key, but what's going well? I thought sweet corn and maize does well in the heat, Terry. The best crop of sweet corn I've ever, ever grown, sir, buddy. I'm picking two or three cobs every day. They are longer, they are sweeter, and they are absolutely massive. I hope to God mine are going to be like that, because I've got sweet corn, I've got cucumbers. I was just listening to Katie saying how her cucumbers are bitter. She doesn't know a thing about growing Katie. That woman, she can't grow cucumbers. OK, we have tomatoes that I've done. We've got lots of herbs.

34:26And I'm just desperate to go and see. It's like having children. Desperate to see how they actually are doing.

34:33Paddy O'Connell:What do you make of this appeal of the allotment, even in the heat, the difficult circumstances, Terry? It's still there. It's still there. I mean, every year you get some failures, some successes. This year has been a challenge. I have got water can hands. I've had to carry the watering can several thousand times. I've had to be very selective in what I can water because I'm limited in water supply. But most things have done very well. The two major failures have been a good and humble spud. They are much smaller. They're not the quality on the runner beans. And they are the staples of filling my freezer, filling my shed and keeping me going all winter.

35:12But I've grown the biggest onions I've ever seen. That sounds lovely, actually. There's nothing better than growing a big onion. How do you do yours then? I grow a mixture of sets and seeds, very rich, ground, well manured, and about the beauty of the onion, it's got a very shallow root, but a big base. And my theory is this year that the actual base of the onion has kept the moisture in the ground, exactly like an umbrella. They have loved it. They've cropped early. They've dried very well. so I'm going to be using those onions next April and May. So you've actually bent over the top. Have you done that yet?

35:53No, they do that themselves. They all harvest it. They're all strung up on nails, on the beam of the shed, all perfectly dry and all going to be used now during the next nine months.

36:06Paddy O'Connell:The flavour is wonderful. Yeah, I can taste it now. Who doesn't love a lovely onion? You can't eat that. Thank you so much. I think you two probably need your own podcast. I think so. Look forward to that. But, Terry, lovely to hear you. Come back any time. OK, party any time. Anytime you want me, I'm available. Lovely, lovely. There he goes, Terry Walton on the Rhonda. And we've already met Wilfred Emanuel Jones. He founded the Black Farmer Food Range. Born in Jamaica, he came to the UK when he was four, turned his inner city childhood into a love of the outdoors, as we can hear. He champions entrepreneurs, farmers, small businesses, and, importantly, pies.

36:41Paddy O'Connell:He was a Conservative parliamentary candidate, but we've no idea what his current politics are. Welcome, Wilford. Nice to be here. Callum Leslie is the newsman on Radio 1's Newsbeat, who wakes up millions on The Breakfast Show with his sidekick, Greg James. Born in Glasgow, he's a golfer, a bookworm, and a member of the Scotland Football Supporters Club. What was that like? That was good fun. Yeah, that was three special weeks in America this year. You went? Yes, absolutely, for the whole group stage. It was great. Boston seems to have adopted Scotland. It was a meeting of minds and hearts. Definitely.

37:12Paddy O'Connell:And beer. And beer. Naomi Alderman is the Panjandrum who won the Women's Prize for Fiction with her novel The Power, Zombies, Game Creator and a friendly voice to millions on Radio 4 with her programme Human Intelligence. Her new title is Strangers, The Tale of Grief, Conspiracy and the Appearance of a Mysterious New Species. That is true. Welcome. Lovely to be here. I've always thought human intelligence, it's a play on the artificial intelligence, isn't it? You're trying to stress we still have a role, we humans. Yes, yes, absolutely. And when we came up with the programme, we really wanted to talk about how many things people have done with their brains that didn't actually need the artificial intelligence.

37:49So we can all sort of chill out about the idea that it's going to be necessary for absolutely everything.

37:54Paddy O'Connell:OK, well, let's begin with you, Naomi. The Sunday Telegraph. The King beware. Sussex's selfish return can only spell peril for the royal family. Right. I am a... Can you read a bit from the article? Yes, I can. Yes, well, so this is a piece by Alison Pearson, who I must say, I like her novels. Columns, maybe not so much. She says here, wherever they settle, Harry and Meghan will be a constant destruction from the activities of the working royals. See how their breaking news displaced the lovely story of Camilla talking about her husband's cancer. Right. Alison Pearson has written a page about Harry and Meghan and not a page about Camilla talking about her husband's cancer.

38:38So that feels like she is complaining about the effect that they are having on her. But it seems to me that that is her choice, whether she's going to write that or not.

38:45Paddy O'Connell:The papers aren't sympathetic, are they, to Harry and Meghan today? I mean, not really. But when are they ever? I am a great fan of Harry and Meghan. I'm a great fan of Harry. Every time I think of him, I think of that little boy who walked behind his mother's coffin. Any happiness that he's able to get in his life, I wish for him. I think they are absolutely right to try to keep their children out of the public eye. I think many of us are much more aware about that than we used to be several years ago, that actually we shouldn't be photographing royal children. They're children. They deserve their childhood.

39:16Can I just say, because I'm a fan of them, but actually it was a massive mistake for this story to come in August. This is a dead time for the media. This story is going to run and run and run because it's the only thing that is sort of happening. So if I was them, the first thing that I would do is get rid of my PR man and get somebody who could think far more strategically. this story just came at the wrong time and I just think unfortunately it's going to get worse for them Well I think, I don't think there has been a good time for a story for them and I sort of, I feel like they actually deserve more from us you know, have we not learned anything from the tragic death of Jason Arday last week Part of what they've got to come to terms with, until the day they die, whatever they do or don't do there is going to be an interest, you're right Every single paper has got something to say on the subject.

40:10And they've got to learn to sort of live with it rather than fight it. OK, thank you.

40:14Paddy O'Connell:It's coverage everywhere. We could describe it as wall to wall. You've outed yourself as a fan. I am. And thank you for doing so. Wilford, you've injected some scepticism. I'm not going to involve you, Callum, as Radio 1's Newsbeat man. Thank you. I'm going to ask you to change the subject. Anything you like for us. Yeah, in the Sunday Times this morning, It's David Collins who's sat down with the new Prime Minister, or maybe not so new now, Andy Burnham. And it's a double page spread that kind of looks behind the door of number 10 North, as it's been called. And it's sort of the detail in this that I really like about, you know, an open plan office.

40:47There's a cutout of Larry the Cat apparently there as well. David Collins says at one point it feels more like an office belonging to Google or Facebook. But I think the question he's asking, which is quite interesting, is where he says, whether this is all style over substance is yet to be seen. Burnham needs tangible results. And it kind of gets to that thing of a flurry of announcements from the Prime Minister. You know, if you look at polling averages, it seems to have worked a little bit. But how long can you keep doing that with little announcements here and there, gimmicks here and there, a new sign, a cut out of Larry the Cat, and people need to feel

41:17Paddy O'Connell:tangible results in their life in the long term. Naomi, when Parliament comes back next week, is he going to have to look more like a Prime Minister and less like a Mayor? Well, it's interesting, isn't it? because, of course, this was exactly the opposite problem that Keir Starmer had, where Keir Starmer was actually doing some quite serious things but was never able to project that charismatic outlook. So apparently you have to choose. And maybe it would be better, it's better to have somebody who's charismatic in that role, maybe that is what the role is these days, and then have some great advisors behind the scenes who are coming up with brilliant policies.

41:48Number 10 at North is a gimmick. It's going to be irrelevant in six months' time and all the money and all the effort is wasted. What everybody has to focus on, the biggest problem we have in this country at the moment is how do we stimulate growth?

42:02Paddy O'Connell:Do you support Kemi Badenoch? I said I don't know your politics. Are you a conservative? I am a conservative. So you do like Kemi Badenoch? I do like Kemi Badenoch. Do you think she's a bit mean? Well, I think what she's shown is that she's tough. Tough. She's got what I would say the Maggie air about her. Oh, but I wish she had Maggie's ideas about how to stimulate the economy. No, but I think she does. I think she does. One last thing I would say on it to come back to the number 10 north. It's number 10 middle, really, if you think about the UK. It's not very north for the whole of the United Kingdom.

42:33So the name is a little bit... You know, if you're above Manchester, if you live in Scotland, Manchester's south. If you live in Hamilton or Hoyk, then it's a long way south. Yeah, if you look at the map, it's just below halfway, I think. So I've always been confused by the name as well. I don't really think people up that path really care. OK, well... Well, they care if it means something, if it actually results in policies that change their lives, as you say.

42:54Paddy O'Connell:You're listening to the news review of Callum Leslie, Naomi Olderman and Wilford Emanuel Jones. Wilford, we're going to take your pick from the mail on Sunday. Egg farmer's fury over salmonella advice. That's right, yes. I looked at all the papers to try and find this story and the mail was the only place I could find it. And it's where British egg producers are quite furious with the government because they've made this announcement that there is salmonella and some of these eggs, but they haven't made it... Imported eggs. Imported eggs. but they haven't made it clear that it isn't British eggs.

43:26Now, this is a subject I'm quite passionate about because this points to one of the big problems that we have in this country in terms of our food. Because I think nearly 50 % of all the food that we consume in this country is consumed outside of the home. So cafes, pubs, your offices, schools, all consumed. And you do not know where that product comes from. At least when you go to the supermarket, You would look at the label and it would tell you where it's produced, how the ingredients are done. And I think there's something we have to do in getting food service to be a lot more accountable.

44:02Paddy O'Connell:So here's Mark Williams, chief executive of the British Egg Industry Council, who said eggs from Britain were safe to eat when runny, even for vulnerable people. But customers who want to enjoy runny eggs simply ask whether British lion eggs are being used. Now, this is the trademark for the British eggs. Like I say, if you look at your eggs and you see that stamp, A, you'll know it's British. The point you're raising is when you go to a cafe, Callum, do you ask, where is my egg from? Yeah, I've never asked that, or I actually thought about it very much, and that is sort of ignorance on my part, but until we talked about it this morning, I thought, well, I've never really considered where that is.

44:37Or even your free office meal. They tell you they give me your free meals. Ask them, where do you source your products from? And I guarantee you it would be sourced from somewhere that was cheaper.

44:45Paddy O'Connell:Naomi, it's heartbreak for producers who feel that they're being tarred with the brush of imported eggs, which are not going to the same standards as these hard-working poultry producers, egg producers. So is this a new piece of information for you today? Well, it was new for me just now when you said that it's absolutely fine even for vulnerable people in this country to eat British runny eggs. I didn't know that. I'm delighted. I can be giving homemade mayonnaise. We're certainly not saying it for BH, but I'm quoting Mark Williams, Chief Executive of the British Egg Industry Council. But there's a lot to talk about here.

45:15Paddy O'Connell:And I would say, in summary, don't listen to the BH health advice. take the health advice where you mostly get it. But you're making a heartfelt appeal, Wilfred, which we've heard. Now we move on, Naomi. We're going to talk about what? Which one would you like? I've got perimenopause here. We've got Dr Ellie Cannon in the Mail on Sunday saying something that I really do agree with. So perimenopause is a real thing. This is the period before a woman enters menopause where there are hormonal changes and people really do have bad effects and sometimes need help from the GP. but it does feel like it's being offered as an answer for absolutely everything right now.

45:51So Ellie Cannon says she mentions symptoms like bleeding and pain while peeing and she says all these symptoms could be due to the perimenopause but they could be signs of cancer too. And she says I've seen women with rheumatoid arthritis who've gone untreated for far too long because they were initially told their pains were due to perimenopause. So this feels like one of those things where some new diagnosis becomes uber popular and trendy. People are talking about it on TikTok all the time. And then suddenly everything is put down to this one thing. And inevitably you get a lot of over-diagnosis or misdiagnosis.

46:27You're going to get hammered. All those women there who have suffered for years, they're going to come after you. If women are... There certainly are people who are really suffering and need HRT, absolutely do not disagree with it. I think Ellie Cannon's making a very important point, which is that it's not absolutely everything that happens to a woman in their 40s.

46:44Paddy O'Connell:OK, so perimenopause and menopause, says the article, are often used interchangeably, but they are not the same. And this subject has been raised by you. And thank you for doing so. I know we'll hear from listeners. Callum, you're going to tell me about dating from the Sunday Telegraph. Yeah, this is the features, pages from the Sunday Telegraph 2 and 3. And it's an interview Jack Rear has done with the author Will Derbyshire, who 10 years ago wrote a book with people sharing their dating experiences. And 10 years on, he's basically done it again to see what's changed. And as somebody who has wrestled with modern dating quite a bit, and I have some lovely advice from my friends here off air about it, it really struck some of the detail really wrong true.

47:21So, you know, the things that we hear stories of in this, things like people insisting on 20 minute coffee dates first to then decide whether they want to upgrade to a full date. We have other ones of people sort of using AI to answer on messages, on dating apps. and actually a really interesting one that Will Derbyshire in this piece says is totally different from 10 years ago is an increased desire for people to align politically when they go on a date as well. He says that's a real change. So I think it's a fascinating snapshot that rings true in modern dating probably. Yes, it is. I found my partner just more than 10 years ago now via a dating app.

47:59I will say that the experience of being on dating apps is, well, I have described it to people as it's like you putting your hand into a lucky dip. You know that there's something brilliant in there. You will eventually find something brilliant. But imagine if the lucky dip is full of sick. So you just have to keep going in. And are sick. Yes, even though you're going to be having some very unpleasant experiences. So I think anyone who's done the dating apps has had the experience of somebody who you seem to be getting on great with by text and then they never actually want to meet up. Certainly I've had the experience of having an evening chat, chat, chatting away with some bloke where I thought, oh, this is going really, really well.

48:36And then at the end he goes, actually, I'm married. Oh, right. Yes!

48:39Paddy O'Connell:One thing that kept coming up, says the article, people won't commit to a full date. They'll agree to a 20-minute coffee, and only that will they commit to a date. And then there's the challenge of pick-up lines. They can be amusing, says the article, but you have to be aware of the context. You can't just tell someone, Wilfred, that they look great in the modern context, apparently. I'm so lucky I hadn't to go through any of this sort of process. So we were talking earlier on that because I'm nearly 70, I didn't have to do all this sort of dating nonsense. You can't just leap straight to part.

49:12In my day, it was a lot easier than what you guys had. What do you think, Naomi, about a pick-up line?

49:17Paddy O'Connell:Can I tell someone they look fabulous? It sort of depends. I would say... You've got to tell them you look fabulous. I have been asked out, for example, on the Tube. I was asked out by a bloke on the Tube who did a chat-up line, said, I think you're great, you know, this is who I am, here's my number, and then he said, and now I'm moving to the next carriage because I don't want you to feel threatened. That's nonsense. No, I thought that was lovely. You've never been a woman sitting in a tube train just going, oh, who is this weird man and how do I get away from him? Callum, does this article come to a conclusion?

49:47Yeah, do you know what? It does. For all these stories that we are talking about and experiences we've had, it does say at the end, this is the author saying, I was convinced I'd end up producing a miserable negative piece of work, but I was startled by how little negativity there is. It's fun to be in pursuit of something I hope people will realise that despite all the hurdles, it's possible and we're doing okay.

50:06Paddy O'Connell:So there you go. And finally, to praising a woman of 68, Wilford, you've picked the Mail on Sunday magazine. Life's a ball. Says who? Oh, it says you. I'm speaking. What have I said? So this is the Mail on Sunday magazine, you. It's Denise Welsh on the front cover. And I mention it simply because everyone should go and find this photo today. It's Denise Welsh in a leather, black leather jacket, yellow marigolds on her sunglasses on and it's just a fantastic photo shoot inside for someone that's celebrating being 60 and being full of life really interesting she's obviously Mattie Healy's mother the lead singer of the 1975 so for our audience at Radio 1 she is very well known as Mattie Healy's mum well you've done a great job for us all this morning thank you very much for keeping us company Wilfred Emanuel Jones Naomi Alderman and Callum Leslie today's producers were Josh Jenkins and Lucy Thomas remarkable studio direction from Nicky Brough The editor was Mary Fuller.

51:01Paddy O'Connell:A piano and microphone used by Freddie Mercury are going up for auction. He used them to create some of Queen's biggest hits, including the one we will bid you goodbye for, and thank you for listening.

51:44Has Prince Harry and Meghan's American dream failed? I'm Asma Khaled, and I host the Global Story podcast from the BBC. The Sussexes are intending to return to the UK, six years after moving to California and striking multi-million dollar brand partnerships. Just last year, Harry told the BBC he couldn't see a world in which his family would return. So what's changed? Find out on The Global Story on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.