Farage denies rules broken after reports benefits from ally were not declared

26:54Ian, this is the point, I think, when I ask you about growing up, how strongly you felt that you wanted to find out what had happened to you. As you grew up, how strong was the feeling that you had to investigate your arrival? Well, it's all-consuming. I mean, there's no deeper issue than who am I, where do I come from, what's my identity, where do I belong? And when you know that you're not living with the people who brought you into this world, and that word, illegitimate, You know, these are massively damaging words that have been used to describe children who've been taken. And so, you know, living under the cloud of those sorts of issues is all-consuming.

27:53Jill, do you remember thinking, I've got him, I've got him back? um yes certainly obviously and um it was a joyous moment but emotionally extremely difficult you know one one minute i was in cloud nine and the next in the depths of despair and ptsd is not an uncommon condition for um for births or anybody connected with the adoption any reunion to go through because everything I'd been keeping hidden for 27 years suddenly came flooding out and it was like a cycle of grief, loss, anger, joy, you know, all rolled into one and that was when I first knew I needed some good support around me and I'm very fortunate in where I live because we have a post-adoption centre and I belong to two support groups for birth parents.

28:59So, yeah, it was just very difficult to process. Of course. And also, because of the distance between us, we couldn't rush into meeting one another in person. No. And it was in the days before email. So we spent literally months writing backwards and forwards, by which time, And by the time we did meet, I felt we knew each other quite well. Let's talk about the loving relationship you had. The first meeting, did it go well, the face-to-face meeting? And has love conquered all? I think it's absolutely amazing. I remember the first phone call once we plucked up courage to even speak to one another before we'd even met.

29:43I can remember ending that phone call saying, love you. and we both expressed our love for one another, which I think is testimony to, as I've mentioned before, the bond between a mother and a child. And, yeah, it was quite amazing, despite 27 missing years and Ian living on the other, couldn't be further away on the other side of the planet. Yeah, you're right, Paddy, I think love has conquered all. It's like the story continues. but we've asked you to tell it in a very brief few minutes because the UK government has apologised and did that matter more than you thought it would? Jill, you campaigned for the moment but when it came...

30:31I did, yeah. I've been involved, as have others obviously, for many years and I seriously, I thought the apology, it was very emotional obviously, but it lifted the shame and the guilt but obviously not the loss but yeah I felt it was heartfelt compassionate and sincere at the time I was at Westminster to hear that delivered it's now three days after it's starting to sink in again and I seriously thought because I'm quite involved in the adoption world generally I thought I would have an emotional handle on on all of this but it's affected me and it still is affecting me quite deeply because it bring it's brought so much more back my my concern is for those birth families and adopted uh people who don't have enough support and much as we appreciate the four million pounds that's been pledged i'm just wondering i don't know that that will be enough to to actually uh establish more no no i I completely agree.

31:43And it just happens that my professional life has been in postvention around suicide, not by coincidence, I might add. And so one of the things that an apology does, it brings a lot of stuff to the surface. And I do think that, you know, recovery for an adoptee is, if you define recovery as getting back what you've lost, well, that's impossible. So it's not about necessarily the past. It's about today and it's about the future and what those people impacted need in order to have much better outcomes. Because the outcomes for all impacted by adoption are dire. You look at all the statistics on longevity, health issues, and they are dire.

32:32I think the apology was heartfelt and sincere. Thank you. But I think that the repercussions of this are and probably will actually cause more harm, especially without the proper support. I really want to stress that. Thank you for speaking from the heart for us on all of the issues you have been. And then finally, in bidding you goodbye, when are you meeting next and where? There hangs a huge question. We have no plans at the moment, I will say. My other two children, in particular my daughter, who has two daughters of her own, Ian has two daughters. This is an intergenerational thing. You know, my granddaughters are now in contact.

33:29So, as I say, the reunion has created a whole new family for both of my granddaughters, for which I'm eternally grateful. With thanks to Jill, Killington and Ian. It's 20 to 10. Donald Trump's been visiting the iconic Mount Rushmore as part of celebrations for the 250th anniversary of independence. He's said to want his own face added to the monument. Rushmore is a few miles from the geographic centre of the USA, so our North America editor Sarah Smith has been there to take the temperature of the heartland. We stand beneath the monument of these heroes, a true group of unbelievable people. Donald Trump is relishing his role at the centre of America's 250th anniversary.

34:16And we rededicate ourselves to being a nation as big, bold, noble and as great as these American giants. delivering this speech at Mount Rushmore, right underneath the carved faces of four of his greatest predecessors. These men could only have been made in the USA. America is setting up on Mount Rushmore a monument to Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, Abraham Lincoln and Theodore Roosevelt. Conceived as a tourist attraction, each president was intended to represent a chapter in America's story. Ten thousand years from now. In 1936, Franklin D. Roosevelt attended a dedication here. I think we can meditate and wonder whether our descendants, because I think they'll still be here, what they will think about us that we have honestly striven to preserve for our descendants a decent land to live in and a decent form of government to operate under.

35:11When you get to Mount Rushmore, it is a genuinely impressive sight. These enormous, imposing faces gazing out of the granite. It is pretty busy, no surprise really, on the 4th of July weekend. But you can see groups gazing up and debating whether you could, whether you should add another face to the mountain and whether Donald Trump should be up there. Let's see where we can put him. What do you think? To the left or to the right? The biggest in the front. There you go. President Trump has shared AI-generated images online that show his face carved into the monument, provoking outrage among his critics, amusement from his fans.

35:48It wouldn't hurt me one bit. I think he deserves to be up there. I think what exists today is appropriate. And I don't feel like it should be changed. It does, admittedly, on the right-hand side of Abraham Lincoln, look like there is space where you could put in one more face. But experts say it wouldn't be technically possible. There just isn't enough granite left. You could seriously damage the existing faces because there's a really deep fissure running through the rock. That's disappointing news for Tim Burke and Terry Davis, who rode over 800 miles on their motorbikes from Idaho to be here for the same weekend as President Trump's visit.

36:23I'm 72 years old and I have not been this passionate about any other president until he took the reins of this country. 20, 30 years from now, the historians will say that he's been one of the greatest presidents in the history of our nation. That's what the majority of America believes. Donald Trump's poll ratings have reached their lowest numbers yet in the wake of the war in Iran and the inflation it's caused. It's not cheap to be a cross-country motorbike rider now, so are those price rises a concern? Small price to pay. You're starting to see the stabilisation. Once that strait is completely open, you'll see all the prices drop again.

37:00America has overcome bigger challenges before and will again. Donald Trump may dominate the national conversation now, but it remains to be seen whether history will view him as a transformative president or an aberration. I think of him as an aberration, and a historical one at that. I met historian Jim Bennett at the foot of the mountain on his first visit here. I mean, there are plenty of examples of a person just like him who wants to come in and have power in his hands, having been actually shunned from it for a while and really wants it, tries to transform it on a populist message and did not go very well.

37:36How about you guys make a little noise for the Black Hills Roundup? Saddle up, it is rodeo time in the tiny South Dakota town of Belle Fouche, which lies at the geographical centre of the United States. Tonight there's bareback bronco riding, mutton busting and barrel racing. As always, the crowd stand, their right hands solemnly placed over their hearts for the national anthem. But polls suggest pride in America has fallen to a 25-year low. As many as 8 in 10 Americans believe the men who signed the Declaration of Independence would be disappointed by the state of the nation today. 250 years old, what do you think the founders would make of today's America?

38:14They're not happy. We're far from the words written in the Declaration of Independence. What's going wrong? The government has too much power. It should be the people have the power, but the government do. They might be a little disappointed, but I think that they would applaud that we're trying to hold true to their vision. What would the founders make of America today? Nothing's perfect, and I think they probably would have a few notes, but isn't that the story of history? there's always notes. America is still a remarkably young country but there is reverence for its history and the story of its founding and a shared belief in the pursuit of freedom that bridges deep political divides and will propel the nation forward to its next chapter.

38:54Sarah Smith reporting. It's quarter to ten. Sarah Perry is here, the internationally best-selling author of novels including The Essex Serpent and Menworth and Enlightenment. Her new title won the Nero Book Award for non-fiction, Death of an Ordinary Man, telling the story of the final days of who, Sarah? My father-in-law, David. And very moving in the reviews that you captured his sort of ordinary humbleness in the face of his death. Yeah, yeah, and how there's something extraordinary about everybody and when they're gone, something extraordinary is lost. A listener wrote saying about a terminal illness, life's terminal.

39:31Yes. the book delves into the feelings we all have when we lose people yeah absolutely ed vases here the conservative peer who was culture minister for six years we think that's a record ed it is a record yeah i got david cameron to write me a letter uh when i passed the uh threshold two thousand and something days and um so i have it framed on my wall next to the letter from the chief whip taking the whip away from me voting against brexit and the uh letter that i get when I was a new MP. The three letters together. So I have my history on the wall. You have a weekly show on Times Radio. Yes.

40:09Lucky me. I sound like I'm doing Blind Date and you sit on the board of the Tate. I sit on the board of Tate. There's no definite article because we're so woke. OK. Did they used to be in the? Yeah, but then we went woke, so we're now Tate. Daisy McAndrew's voice, you hear that, the radio and TV presenter who hosts a talk on Talk TV and is royal commentator for the US network NBC. She started as a researcher in the House of Commons aged just 19 and she developed an early love not just of politics but of motorbikes. This is true. This is true. But then I had babies. Do you love motorbikes? I love motorbikes.

40:42You know I'm president of the Autocycle Union. I did not know that. Having never ridden a motorbike. Have you not even got a licence? No. I went to the Isle of Man TT the other day. It's the most extraordinary thing I've ever been to. I do have a full motorbike licence. I'm pleased to hear. I'm sorry to interrupt. I'm going to insist that the listener, the one that's left, here's some of the news. So we're going to start with you, Daisy McAndrew, and this will upset the people who love birds. I listen to Radio 4, but the Sunday Times reports that hunters want to be able to have permission to shoot what?

41:15Parakeets. And parakeets, we know, have become very controversial. You either love them or hate them, and they have absolutely boomed in recent years. I mean, Sarah thinks that the parakeets are in Norwich, but everyone thinks that this invasion of parakeets started in London. And there are all sorts of theories about whether it was Jimi Hendrix who let out the first parakeet, or whether it was the filming of the African Queen in London that released parakeets into the wild. But there are thousands of them now. But you're right, Paddy, there's a move that hunters should be able to get a licence.

41:47The British Association of Shooting and Conservation has applied for legal amendment to add parakeets to the list of wild birds that can legally be shot. So, I mean, where do you stand on shooting parakeets? Did you expect to be answered? I did not, no. We were walking our dog on Marston Marshes just outside Norwich recently and a huge flock of parakeets flew over and I found it very difficult to respond with anything. But glee, it's kind of a flash of green. And they've been in Norwich since the mid-19th century, I think. So they are older and more widespread than people realise, I think. It could be a new sport.

42:22It could take over from pheasant shooting and grouse shooting. You could have your parakeet shoot where you drive the parakeets over the trees to shoot them. I know a lot about parakeets because I watched a documentary by Chris Packham. And just to get everybody going, Chris Packham, of course, said that parakeets are a metaphor for immigration, that people regard parakeets as an alien species that must be undermining the native species. But there's actually no evidence that that is the case. That's right. He is quoted in this article saying that people should chill out and learn to love the wonderful ring-necked parakeet.

42:54But then other people, apparently they do damage sort of apple crops and things like that. And what irritates people, the apple groves, is they don't even eat the whole apple. They just have a little nibble and then they leave it. Just like me. They're probably on the fat jabs. Those parakeets. Well, we're underway with parakeets. Sarah Perry, the same newspaper, the Sunday Times, buy faux tapestry that a teacher hopes to sell for a million pounds after 10 years of toil. I'm so drawn to anything that foregrounds what I think of as women's work. I collect a lot of old embroidery by women and I feel it's kind of a political thing that things like embroidery and patchwork and all of those wonderful crafts are not taken very seriously.

43:37So Mia Hansen has never been interested in history, but on a holiday to France 20 years ago, she visited the bio tapestry and decided to dedicate the next 10 years of her life making a full-size copy of the bio-tapestry just for larks. Although now I see that she's also hoping to sell it for a million pounds, which rather undermines the purity of her individuality. Well, no, it's even more larks, I would say, if you get a million pounds. Yes, there's a lot of larks. I think if it's 20 years of your life, it's worth every penny. And, of course, the bio-tapestry was made by women. By women, absolutely.

44:05And it was made in Britain, and it's British. It is. Should we give it back when it comes to the British Museum? Well, it's going to be shown shortly at the British Museum. You're on the board of Tate. Are you saying on Radio 4 we should keep it? Absolutely. This is the official position of Tate, that we should keep the pie down. I know you're being ironic. The British Museum hates me. Let's not try and make too much news on this programme. Instead, are you going to go and see it? I know the tickets are tight, but is it a tapestry that attracts you all? Yes, I think standing in front of it and just realising quite how monumental it is in every way is definitely something you can't get from seeing it in pictures or on the telly.

44:48I think that's really important. And material history like that is so moving to think of the hands of the women that made it. And it's not a tapestry. It's an embroidery, which is a very important distinction. That's a very good point. The bio embroidery. It's the bio embroidery. I think it's fascinating. I mean, it's down the road in the sense that it's normally exhibited in Normandy, bio, wherever. Just as I once saw Tutankhamun in Egypt. But the Tutankhamun exhibition in the 70s was a blockbuster. and the bio tapestry is going to be an absolutely monumental exhibition because obviously it's, you know, in a sense a beginning of modern British history.

45:20And I think, you know, apparently the queues, online queues, was nine hours long to get tickets to the bio tapestry. So it's going to be absolutely phenomenal, successful. And every single other national museum in Britain is wildly jealous. OK, Ed, will you keep the talking stick and tell us about the Sunday Telegraph's front page? Tony Blair warns Andy Burnham what? Well, he's warned Andy Burnham not to raise capital gains tax. I mean, one of the interesting things about this interregnum is that lots of people are speculating about what Andy Burnham's policies might be. And we've had talk about capital gains tax and we've had talk about wealth taxes and mansion taxes and all sorts of other things, which is actually not very helpful.

45:59It's great, great uncertainty for businesses. But it's also interesting, obviously, that Tony Blair maintains this kind of commentator function on the policies of the Labour Party as the elder statesman, their most successful prime minister. And the fact that it's his institute that is saying do not raise capital gains tax is significant. So I think it does deserve a front page on the Sunday Telegraph. It's not a speculative article. It's based on something that the Tony Blair Institute has issued and they wouldn't issue it without Tony Blair's approval. So and given that the entire government that Andy Byrne is going to put together will be all the people who came up in politics under Tony Blair, I think it's quite a significant intervention.

46:32I totally agree with you on that it's significant. But on that second point about the faces that are going to be surrounding Andy Burnham, I do wonder whether that's going to be a bit of a turn-off for some in the public, seeing all these retreads that sort of bring back memories of the Blair years, which not everybody will approve of that. I think it's quite risky in some ways. It could be like the new Labour Flintstones. But on the other hand... I don't know what you mean by that. Neither do I, to be perfectly honest. I've said it now. So we'll move on. We'll pretend it never happened. Paddy's actually blushing.

47:04That's so cute. Daisy, I think it might be your turn, Daisy. And you're going to tell us about the euro border system being blamed for chaos. Yes, so obviously a lot of people thinking about their summer holidays coming up and there's their nerves about the fact that obviously over in mainland Europe, they've introduced this new system whereby you have to get your fingerprints done and your digital ID and some places. And it's interesting, the Sunday Times has listed, named and shamed the airports that are the worst for this. But some of them, it's taking five hours to get through passport control.

47:35And so some of these airports are saying, please, can we ditch the system over the summer to ease the control? But of course, it is meant to stop or meant to find people who are in breach of their visas and so on. So it kind of thinks, well, yeah, but if you do that, then everyone's just going to take advantage of the fact that the system is on hold. Sunday Express from Sarah Perry. You want to feel really rich. Show someone what? Yeah, I'm so sorry. this is really twee but um the one to feel really rich to show some kindness and i've been thinking so we've all been thinking about these kind of tech billionaires and crypto billionaires and one thing they all seem to have in common is that they all look utterly miserable the entire time and very fragile and very easily made angry and very easily wounded um and i wonder whether they would be better off chasing real richness which according to this survey suggests that having good friends, making somebody laugh and being kind makes people feel a lot richer than mere financial assets.

48:29So someone have a word with... I'd like to know the bank balances of the people that they surveyed though, because I'm not sure if you are scratching around for... But I think money can't buy you happiness, this is true, but it also doesn't seem to be able to alleviate the misery of being kind of lonely and fragile. It says you can be a happy adult if you have teenage children who actually like spending time with you, that's one of the key things. and more valuable than any material status symbol is making someone laugh, having a best friend you would trust with your life, also says the paper.

48:57It's very accurate material for a Sunday. Thank you for raising it. Ed Vasey, Taylor Swift's wedding in every newspaper, including the Mail, on Sunday. Well, I think this is another example of great kindness that Taylor Swift has filled our weekend with joy that she had this extraordinary$50 million wedding in Madison Square Garden in New York. It's been eclipsed a bit by the World Cup and the July 4th celebrations. But she is, I think, the world's most successful musician. I think she's a very impressive woman who has handled her career excellently. I watched Taylor Swift, A Love Story, on Channel 4 the other night, so I'm completely up to date with her romantic chronology.

49:37I once met her previous boyfriend and chatted to him for 20 minutes before somebody pointed out that I've been talking to Taylor Swift's boyfriend for 20 minutes, so I didn't ask him anything interesting. and I think it's just a cultural moment that we should all mark and there's no better institution than the BBC to do it on. So she's got married. It's a story which has brought some joy to some people. But it's a lack of pictures. All anybody wants to do is to see the pictures. I would also say in the mode of car, I've never willingly listened to a Taliessewif song, but I would point out that she's given away, as part of this wedding, millions and millions of dollars to charity.

50:14Oh, I didn't know that. And I do think that's something quite striking because it almost looks like salving of conscience, but whatever her motives are, she seems to do it during her tours. She did it in the UK. Gave a huge amount of money away to Liverpool in particular. So I don't know about her songs. She gave money to Liverpool? I think so, yes, and food banks. OK, so she's a phenomenon and she's in the paper for a happy movie. And she's a good egg. And she's a close friend of Prince William and Princess Kate, which is good for Britain's soft power. So let us turn to the pictures of Harry Kane and the subjects on all the papers of the World Cup football.

50:49Well, obviously it's a big moment again. England, probably a very tough match against Mexico. And the key point is the entire nation is discussing their sleeping strategy. Do you sleep before the World Cup game or do you stay up for the World Cup game and then try and go to sleep afterwards? It's a very, very difficult conundrum. But I am thrilled that the pubs are being allowed to stay open because the amount of money that they would have lost by not being able to serve beer during an England game was going to be running into the millions. Of course, if we win, then the pubs will be even more ka-ching-ka-ching.

51:24If we don't, everybody will be leaving with their tail between their legs at three. So it's my job to read The Sun on Sunday. Harry Kane says, I'd love everybody to be toasting the wind till dawn, then have three lions. Oh, very good. We love a pun. Now, we just do say hello to our listeners in the home nations who don't support England, but I think we have been quite clear. Some of them actively don't support England. I know, understand that. We did have an England supporter who paid tribute to Scotland's fans and everything else. So just because this is such an important moment, will you answer the question in the final 30 seconds of what you're going to do at one in the morning?

52:00Sleep. OK. I will definitely be watching it. I think I'll have had a little grandma snooze this afternoon to prepare me for it, but I probably won't be. Your sleep strategy is starting this afternoon. I think so. I think so. That's really keen on the sleep. Pub lunch, snooze, stay up for the football. I'll be watching. But what will you be doing about sleep? I plan to go to sleep at about nine and wake up at 12.30. You don't mean nine in the morning because we had you here. Yes. All right. Thank you for all your work for us and taking us through all the papers. Is that it? I'm afraid we'll have to get to desert home.

52:31It went so fast. It does. It does. Have you saved the best for last? Some listeners think it goes very slowly. The producers were Alex Hardy and Natasha Mayo. Studio direction from Rob Fanner. The editor was Mark Faulkner. To you for listening, thank you and goodbye.

52:47Is the American dream still possible? I'm Asma Khalid, one of the hosts of the Global Story podcast from the BBC. One of the most successful exports the United States has ever sold the world is the American dream, that tantalising promise of a better, freer, richer life. But is it still attainable? I feel like the American dream is alive but not well. For more, listen to The Global Story on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.