US envoys head to Kyiv after Moscow talks

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0:30We do the things we do and how to make better choices to help avoid costly mistakes. Each episode covers the latest research in behavioral science and dives into themes like the power of self-control, shaping your mindset for success, navigating new beginnings and why starting over can feel so hard. Listen to choiceology at schwab.com slash podcast or wherever you listen. Running a business shouldn't feel like surviving a software group project. One app for accounting, another for inventory, another for sales. And somehow, none of them talk to each other. That's where Odoo comes in. An all-in-one business management software that brings every part of your business together.

1:15From sales and accounting to inventory and marketing, all in one powerful platform. No messy integrations. No bouncing between tabs. And best of all, no spreadsheets. Stop managing software and start managing your business with one unified system. Try for free today at odoo.com. That's O-D-O-O dot com. Hello, this is the BH podcast for Sunday the 6th of September. Today, Donald Trump's peace envoys have had their power with Putin. Has Sakhir Starmer left a political bear trap for his successor as PM by stepping down as an MP and triggering a by-election? And are we heading for a literary dark age as we swap turning pages for swiping and scrolling?

1:57We want to know what you're reading at the moment to create moments of literary light. Our headliners, Labour's Mayor for West Yorkshire, Tracy Brabin, comedian and writer, Kiri Pritchard-McLean, and fresh from interviewing Nigel Farage yesterday, GB News' political editor, Christopher Hope. That's all in BH. US envoys Steve Witkoff and Jared Kushner are travelling to Kiev after meeting Russia's President Vladimir Putin in Moscow yesterday. Our diplomatic correspondent James Landale is in Kiev. I asked him what we know about what came out of the meeting between Mrs Putin, Witkoff and Kushner at the Kremlin.

2:29Well, the Kremlin said the talks were frank. They lasted for three hours. And a Kremlin spokesman and a Putin aide sort of gave a readout in which he said that they had set out Russia's position, claiming they were making tangible gains on the battlefield, shield and but also making clear that President Putin still wants that what he calls the root causes of this conflict to be addressed. And that is language that essentially signals that his maximalist demands remain intact, namely that Ukraine should reduce its army. It should give up hopes of joining NATO. It should adopt neutrality. And above all, it should give up large swathes of the Donbass in eastern Ukraine.

3:20The White House said that both the two envoys set out various plans for a way forward and they looked forward to equally positive talks here in Kyiv today. So sort of lots of warm words but no absolute sign of any kind of breakthrough or anything like that. Very warm words, it seemed, with Mr. Witkoff saying that this is when we retire, we'll have memories like this and this will be right at the top. I just wonder how much that how that palliness is will go down when they get to Kiev. Well, look, I mean, I imagine privately they won't like it, but they will be used to it because it is that it is par for the course.

4:01It is the sort of language that Mr. Witkoff uses. I think what they will try and do here in Kyiv is because this is the first time that these two US envoys have been here to try and end this conflict they will make them as welcome as possible but they will also do everything they possibly can to counter the narrative of the war that these two men have just been given by the Kremlin and by President Putin and I think that's the point they will try and land as much as possible to say look you know Russian claims of massive advance on the front line are not true, that actually Ukraine is making huge advances in terms of striking targets deep within Russia and that that is putting economic pressure on the Kremlin.

4:44In other words, the war is more finely balanced. And in other words, just to try and challenge this idea that somehow the Ukrainians are under pressure and are willing to capitulate. So one side saying we're winning, the other side saying no, we're winning. There's no obvious room for movement here. Is there given, as you say, the maximalist demands of Russia and the steadfast denial that's a possibility under international law, according to Ukraine, on the Ukrainian side? Yeah, I think that's probably a fair assessment shared by analysts and diplomats here in Kiev, most of whom have fairly low expectation of this weekend's talks.

5:21Most of them are assuming there's going to be a really hard winter of fighting ahead. both sides are busily preparing for that and if you talk to diplomats they say look if there is going to be any kind of window for some kind of settlement or some kind of reduction in the intensity of the conflict it's probably going to be next spring because essentially both sides have to be in a position where they think actually reducing the fighting is probably in their best interest and at the moment neither side is in that position. That was our diplomatic correspondent James Landale there waiting Mr Witkoff and Mr Kushner in Kiev.

6:01Now, this week, the new Prime Minister, Andy Burnham, paid tribute to his predecessor, Sir Keir Starmer, as he announced he was standing down as an MP. A far cry from two years ago, when he was re-elected as the MP for Hoban and St Pancras in a landslide at the general election, leading Labour back into power. Keir Starmer, Labour Party, 18 ,800... You have voted. It is now time for us to deliver. Thank you very much. Well, after high profile by-elections in Makerfield and Clacton, remember those? They've shaped national politics with the election and then the re-election of Andy Burnham and Nigel Farage, respectively.

6:45What will this latest one tell us? So we're back on the by-election beat. and yesterday I visited Hoban and St Pancras where a street party was being held and spoke to Dan Carrier from the Camden New Journal, the man who broke the story that Keir Starmer would be stepping down as the local MP. The York Rye Street Party brings everyone together. Nice demographic and, yeah. Also, a few of the sort of political big hitters show up. There's always a bit of... It's a few babies to kiss, I feel. As I say, it brings all our community out. Well, we'll tuck into how many babies need kissing and by whom and for what in due course.

7:23But I suppose you were the man who broke the story that Keir Starmer, having said he wouldn't stand down as an MP, in fact did. Can you tell us how you scooped the Nationals? Indeed, indeed. I mean, we've known Keir forever, right? He gave us a call the night before and said, I've got something I want to share. And we obviously knew what that was going to be. I actually wondered if he was going to stay as a backbench MP and not have a by-election, because would that have been better for the Labour Party under the current circumstances? Also, the cost to the taxpayer. I thought he might just sit quietly on the back benches, but I think he's been offered a job somewhere.

7:54We know, we're not allowed to tell you because he told us off the record, but there's a job somewhere out there for him. Come on, give BH a bit of a scoop. I'd love to give BH a scoop. My favourite radio show on Radio 4, but no. My lips are sealed. Your lips are sealed. Well, listen, well done on your scoop. But just tell us, you know, obviously it's a big constituency and people think of it as sort of fortress labour, urban, liberal, elite, rich, average house price a million quid. What are we missing from that rather crude, perhaps crude sketch? That is an absolutely crude sketch because the wonderful thing about Holborn and St Pancras and the borough of Camden is its diversity.

8:35So we've got some of the poorest wards in the country and it is a complete misnomer to think we're all Hampstead Highgate literati types. It is that element, but Camden also has always been a stronghold for Labour. 1960s, 1970s here, loads of social housing we've built so people live cheap by jail. There are still lots of council flats, council estates, alongside what you would call the£1 million yards, the big houses around here. So it is a really diverse, mixed, mixed borough, and that's why it's so great to work for the local paper here. So let's leave the party and head down to the local High Street to see what's top of mind there.

9:13The development in Spencer Eyes. OK, what's the problem there? Everything. No small housing for anybody on there. No affordable housing? No, for anybody on the estate. And the Greens think they've got a chance here. Do you give the Greens a chance? I'm afraid I do, yeah. Because I think they're saying the right things to people about housing. I've lived here my whole life. I think things have gone a bit downhill in terms of the schools, in terms of little things like neighbourhood cleanliness and how safe it feels to go outside sometimes. Do you know why the Greens think they've got a chance here?

9:53I think they just might be offering a new perspective because Labour has felt a bit stagnant. Not many changes have happened, so I think it's that younger population that's reaching for something more. I mean, politics is just a circus these days, isn't it? Yeah. I like here as a serious guy doing a good job. OK, all right. Do you understand why the Greens think they've got a chance here? I don't even want to talk about them. Time for the pub, I think. Let us step inside this establishment to see what the local mood is. Milliband just lives round the corner. And he's all over. So it's all Labour round here.

10:32All the candidates ever like. I mean, man, Camden and that. Ken Livingston all the way back. And the Greens think they've got a chance over the road. What do you think about that? They've been doing pretty well round there of late. You do see a lot of their posters up in the windows and everything like that. But they won't win, but they've got a good chance. And do you think people will vote on local issues or national issues? National issues. I think they just, like, so staunch Labour round there. I think they're just old diehards and they'll just vote Labour, like, regardless.

11:01Is Labour impregnable here? Let's go back to Dan Carrier of the Camden New Journal. So in the May elections, Labour lost a lot of ground. And actually in the general election, though Keir walked it nationally, his share dropped locally. A few reasons, international issues, Gaza, Palestine matter a lot to our constituents. The climate crisis is on everyone's lips. So there is a kind of a radical left feeling within the borough. Housing, obviously, massive issue, the cost of living, falling school rolls, what's going to happen to our schools. We've had schools close in this borough because people cannot afford to live around here anymore.

11:36Massive issue for us. So we'll see. As I say, it's going to be a really interesting by-election and a kind of microcosm. If Labour win it, Burnham's done his job. If Labour lose, and the Greens say, it will be a straight fight between the Greens and Labour. We're not expecting, Tories are never anywhere to be seen. And no reform, there's just no reform votes in it to be won. By-elections have become these kind of barometers of national issues. as well? How much will be national? How much will be local in the way that people vote? I suspect it's going to be all national. I really do. I suspect this is going to be a referendum by Andy Burnham.

12:10I really do feel that. Locally, the Labour Council has been criticised, but they've always had this fallback that we've had a Tory government for 14 years, and they've blamed Whitehall. They can't do that anymore. And I do feel that with Burnham, we'll see his credentials as a left-wing Labour leader. Is he further left than Keir Starmer. We'll see that with this election. It's definitely going to be fought on national issues.

12:38So that is our profile of Hoban and St Pancras. And a massive thanks to Dan Carrier of the Camden New Journal for being our guide there. So as I say, that's the battleground. We are busting Tracey Braben, Labour Mayor of West Yorkshire, out of our newspaper review bullpen we keep in the back here to give us her thoughts on Andy Burnham's first proper week as MPs back in Westminster. And, Tracey, a slight curveball thrown at him by his predecessor, a by-election he could possibly do without. Well, yeah, I mean, Dan Carrier, what an absolute legend. That was a really great interview. And, yeah, let's not forget what Keir has achieved as the MP and as the Prime Minister.

13:19And I think he has a lot to be proud of. and I was really pleased to listen to Andy Burnham in the House of Commons speak very fondly and graciously about Keir. We don't know what the job is. It sounded all under wraps. But my question to you is, could Andy Burnham do without a pesky by-election so early on or does it give him an opportunity to see just how high the Burnham bounce is? Because people are saying, aren't they, having seen off reform in Makerfield, if you can take some lumps out of the independents and the Greens in Hobans and Pancras, do you start getting the equations for calling an early election?

13:57Well, I think, no, I mean, that's for Andy. But I think we're absolutely getting on with the energy, the dynamism, the hope and optimism that you've seen in the last few months. And one of the people that was interviewed said, you know, politics is stagnant. Well, I mean, it's so thrilling to see the energy that we're getting from the centre and the change, particularly tackling the cost of living And it is absolutely true that Camden and St Pancras is not only a wealthy borough. There are very many people who are living on the breadline in poverty. And certainly Andy's approach, tackling energy bills, bringing those down, the capping of the two pound fare, really important when you've got people who don't own a car moving around the city and getting to work on opportunities.

14:45And actually, as Dan did focus on, Gaza and Andy saying, you know, we got it wrong. I think that's really welcome. I was the first mayor to call for a ceasefire in the region and also absolutely fundamentally on housing. The temporary housing is costing Sadiq and local authorities eye-watering sums of money. We have to build at speed and that is something that Andy is absolutely focused on. He wants to give extra money for housing. He wants to end rough sleeping. He talked about the cost of living, giving help with energy bills. All of this stuff costs money at a time of rising government borrowing costs happening across the world, but particularly acute here in the UK.

15:26And you're wiping out half the Chancellor's headroom before you bump into the fiscal rules. But I understand that growth is the answer and he's got a secret weapon. Here it is. We will back local industrial strategies, a policy of the Theresa May government I am happy to revive by identifying priority sectors and developing the triple helix approach to economic development. Triple helix. WTF? Well, it's totally obvious what it is because we've seen it in action with mayors across the country. And the reason the Triple Helix is evidence to work is that Leeds and West Yorkshire is one of the fastest growing regions in the country because we work with academia, business and local.

16:11So those are the three points of the Triple Helix, academia, business and government. Hardly the first government to ever suggest that academia, business and government should work together. What's different this time? Well, I think it's the way that Andy is really leaning into empowering mayors, whether that's through fiscal devolution, whether that's the overnight visitor levy. I mean, one perfect example is that in October, all the northern mayors are going to India on a trade mission. And it is no longer that we have those sort of trade deals between the UK and India. It is the fact that West Yorkshire and Hyperbad, or whether it's West Yorkshire and Nashville, working together, mayor to mayor, bringing businesses, academia, our brilliant universities, unlocking those fantastic ideas that come out of universities and really clever young people, PhD students, and turning them into businesses, which is why in West Yorkshire, we are the second largest financial professional services.

17:06we're the third biggest player in health tech because of that relationship. OK, well, before we return you to the headliner's pen, we've got a big speech by the Chancellor tomorrow. And this really is not straightforward, is it? As I said, borrowing costs for the government already over£100 billion a year and rising given the rise in borrowing costs we've seen. And growth has been pretty anemic. What's he going to do? I mean, what do you expect to hear from him tomorrow? Well, he was trailing his speech in the mirror, I think, today and talking about, obviously, the headwinds that are out of our control, the war, what's happening in America with, you know, the fact that we still can't solve the challenges of Ukraine and, you know, supporting Ukraine through this terrible war.

17:57So, of course, he's got a difficult job on his hands, but he is talking about empowering mayors to be part of the solution. To evolution, part of the answer. Exactly that. That is definitely the way forward. Quietly dropping the target that he resigned over, though. Three percent of spending on defence by 2030. Yeah. And I think there is really an appetite from the whole team to try and put the defence spending on, you know, as a priority. as a Prime Minister and as a Chancellor your number one job is to protect the public and certainly being able to empower mayors across the country to have these defence clusters to bring those supply chains into our region to build jobs and to grow our economy is really important OK, Tracey, thank you very much Tracey Brabin there, the Labour Mayor for West Yorkshire we will see you later on in the programme but thank you for your guide to what's to come this week now, this morning we're hearing from a columnist an author who says a lack of reading is threatening a new dark age of learning.

18:58We want to hear about your points of light. What are you reading at the moment? We'll share your recommendations to the nation in a moment. But this now, this week's slow radio comes from Leslie Harris. He writes Here is the sound of the sea organ at Zedar in Croatia for slow radio. In this clip you can hear the musical notes produced when the waves reach the shore. The sound is made by the water moving through pipes placed under a set of marble steps. You can also hear the waves and the sound of people enjoying this soundscape, a popular place we're told to watch the sunset.

20:14Delightful. That was the sea organ at Zedar. I hope I pronounced that correctly in Croatia. And our thanks to Leslie Harris for sending that in. Now, be prepared is the motto of the scouting movement. It got fresh legs this week when the Environment Secretary, Dame Angela Eagle, advised us to stockpile extra food and water in case disaster strikes. It was a pretty stark warning. She said, if you've got a store of a bit of food that can keep you going for a while before the emergency services can get to you, you're going to be a lot better off than if you haven't. Her comments accompanied a warning from the National Audit Office that Britain's food supply chain is at risk given the increased threat of extreme climate events, thanks in part to the most powerful incarnation of the El Nino weather phenomenon we've seen possibly for centuries, which threatens drought, floods and crop failures.

21:04So are you prepared to be a prepper? Sarita Robinson is a disaster psychologist at the University of Lancashire who's been stockpiling food for years. And Theo Michaels, a professional chef and author of many cookbooks, including, importantly, Canned, a collection of recipes using tinned foods. Welcome to BH to both of you. Now, Sarita, what turned you into a prepper? Were you a born prepper or did your studies turn you into one? I think my studies turned me into one. And about 25 years ago, I was writing my PhD and I was looking at people in life-threatening situations. And what really struck me was that it wasn't what people did during the emergency that meant that they were either a victim or survivor.

21:48A lot of it was what they did before. So that prepping was such an important window to help survival in life-threatening situations should they occur. Do you have a larder, an attic, some sort of arc that you keep? where is the what what's in it as well what are you prepping for so i definitely don't have things like a nuclear fallout shelter or anything so extreme it is really just everyday items it's thinking about what might go wrong and then doing a little intervention to try and help i call it micro prepping so for example i do have a larder of food but it's just food i would normally eat i just buy more of it so it's not some like crazy sawdust type energy bar that you know costs a fortune it's just a couple of extra cans every time i go shopping rather than buying one can of sweet corn maybe i'll buy three cans okay so so only buy stuff that you would want to eat anyway rather than buying something unusual that you might not want to eat absolutely you don't want prepper's regret which is what i call it where we we might stockpile something because we think oh yes that looks really great and then you've got 10 cans of it and it's like i am never going to eat that so i would definitely um just buy the food that you would normally buy and uh you know it will come in at some point even if you don't need it for emergency it's important to keep rotating it round it's not something you you sort of buy and put in a cupboard and then never look at again it's it's just keeping it in date and keeping your cupboards refreshed and topped up preppers regret that's marvelous um we'll remember that one let's turn to theo michaels um let's say we've got a lot of canned goods, stuff that would last a long time, Theo.

23:29What are we rustling up as we cower in terror by candlelight? Cower in terror by candlelight? What a terrible vision we've got of eating cold baked beans out of a tin. No, I think the world is your oyster when it comes to canned and jarred ingredients. And these originally came about, canned food through the Napoleonic era of when it was a case of how do we get troops to cover miles and miles and keep them well fed? And that was the sort of birth of preserved canned food. So it fits the theme of prepping for troubled food. Give us a couple of ideas. So, I mean, look, there's loads. So one of my favourites is a lovely griddled apricot grain salad.

24:18So, I mean, it sounds fancy, but it's literally, So you can use things like canned peaches, canned mangoes. They're full of fibre. If you don't get them in syrup, you can get them in juice. Actually, the sugar content isn't as bad. So the griddled peach wine is delightful. So you've got mixed grains. So we've got something which is sweet and needs power. I'm just wondering if you've got a savoury dish where we've got nothing, we've got no gas ring, no hob, no whatever. yeah so i think something like a really lovely buddha bowl type style dish so you're gonna have you're gonna have to tell us what's in a buddha bowl i'm afraid yeah yeah absolutely so look this is bowl food it's really humble so you get those lovely packets of pre-cooked uh lentils you get a can of lentils you can just mix that to start with with some some olive oil some vinegar some seasoning pop that into a bowl and that gives you your sort of your carbs and your fiber the base of it and then you can dot around the top lots of lovely ingredients so some canned mango gives it a lovely freshness a lovely bit of sweetness add some chili flakes to that you get that lovely sort of sweet hot element to it next to that you have some lovely canned carrots that you've put in there as well dice them up yum add something different to each one so you get different little flavor pockets so canned carrots don't give me yum totally sincere totally sincere Let me just let me turn.

25:44OK, I'm just going to go back to Sarita. Give us your thoughts on this. And also, I suppose Covid turned it turned us all into preppers of a kind, didn't they? Absolutely. And I think there's a really good point there. And, you know, one of the things that my husband pointed out as we were going into the first lockdown was that I hadn't prepped any nice things. So I'd done all the basics like my porridge oats and my rice and my pasta, but there were no chocolates and biscuits. and I think it is important to have a balance. So he did an emergency run for some treats just before that first lockdown.

26:18Okay, all right. Well, Sarisa Robinson, disaster psychologist at the University of Lancashire and Theo Michaels who has written a book called Canned, a collection of recipes using tinned foods. Thank you both for your prepping suggestions. Now, thank you also for some suggestions on books. We're talking about whether we're in a post-literate dark age as one author is warning. we've got some ideas about how to bring some light. Pete Greenway say, I always have a book I'm reading, really just want to go to bed for 45 minutes or so on Wine for the Day. I would highly recommend the Shard Lake series by C.J.

26:52Sansom. All excellent books. Jacqueline recommends Guy Walter's Stealing Hitler's Rocket, V2. Reads like a thriller. Keep those coming and let us know what you're reading at broadcastinghouse, all one word, at bbc.co.uk. Self-directed investing, trading, full-service wealth management, automated investing, financial planning, thematic investing, retirement planning. Phew. And to think, that's just a small taste of what Schwab offers. Because Schwab knows that when it comes to your finances, choice matters. No matter your goals, investing style, life stage or experience, Schwab has everything you need, all in one place, so you can invest your way.

27:37Visit schwab.com to learn more.

28:07or actually an undercover reporter posing as the British-based son of a potential American donor. Now, a party investigation is underway. Two senior aides have been suspended. But in the undercover filming, Nigel Farage seemed happy with the coverage the polls had generated. I was thrilled to be able to pick up the tab for the polls that you had commissioned. Yes, that was great. And the third poll. It worked. Boom. Right. When I saw the third poll on the front page of the Times, because William sent it to me, I thought, well, all right, these are people who know how to spend all their money. And that's what I want to see.

28:44Bang for the buck. Bang. That's exactly the phrase. Bang for the buck. Well, the Times, which reported that poll, said it was not made aware of Reform's involvement in commissioning and arranging payment. A spokesman for the polling company JL Partners said, despite there being no concern about the accuracy of our work. The report did reveal weaknesses in our procedures. Speaking on Friday, Nigel Farage insisted the polls had been commissioned by an independent third party and that reform had done nothing wrong. Professor Sir John Curtis from the University of Strathclyde, of course our election guru, pours over the polls for a living.