Brandon Flowers

0:00This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human. Hey, I'm Niall Rogers. This fall, I'll be driving across the country, meeting some of today's coolest and most fascinating artists. We'll explore the stories before the moments that changed everything. Because every musician remembers the moment where it all began. Experience Before the Moment. A link in Original Series on the iHeartRadio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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1:50Pushkin.

2:19the problem is we did the almost we almost mirrored the trip identically like the restaurants and and the spots you know and i'm just like we got to switch it up a little but they're just like no this was this because it was good that was good that's always the problem with life is you find something you want to do you like and it's like do you stick do you you know like do you go to order the same thing at the restaurant or switch it up you need that variety that spice because it could ruin japan next year it could no switch it up you know congratulations on the album man it's a really uh it's a really amazing it's a great record oh thanks yeah when it got sent over they're like you should give a listen to brandon flowers's country album yeah it might sound it might seem strange but we think you'll like it yeah and i was like actually you know what doesn't seem that strange to me when i put it on i was like oh he's doing it yeah like he's doing it for real yeah we went for it yeah you really did we went to the heart of it you know we went to nashville and did it that was a that was the appropriate place to do it how did that transpired did you know to go there or what i didn't i feel embarrassed about it i got to give credit to the producers it was you know rato and and sean everett and um they just were all as we were writing the songs and making demos it was like we got to go to nashville and i sort of i wasn't kicking against it but i was like their studios this studio's good that we're in provo you know uh burbank's fine by me whatever but we we ended up just booking some time at you know iconic RCA and and it was definitely the right move how did they sell you on it ultimately um it was just the you know they talked about the musicianship and the people that were there that they were going to assemble and that was I was like all right I'm gonna I'm gonna just go with it yeah were you aware of it as a I mean obviously everyone's aware of Nashville as a musical place but were you aware of the sort of studio legacy of Nashville?

4:12Not until, again, I don't know if I should, I'm embarrassed to say it. No, I didn't know exactly what transpired just in this room that we were recording in and in the room next door. So many magical... What was in those rooms? It's RCA that you recorded, right? Yeah, I mean, everything. I mean, Roy Orbison, Dolly Parton, Waylon Jennings, everything. everything wow chris christopherson every you know it's just um really incredible that's just the surface yeah are you a person who believes that rooms hold a certain it has to yeah i mean there's there is a you walk in and you can feel you know you can you can feel it there's this there's it's kind of tangible sometimes and there's just something we're in the big room I'm an RCA, and it's just one of the great live rooms in the world.

5:05And there's been so many great bands in there, and it's so many great recordings. Did you help in picking out the players? No, again, I'm embarrassed. No, I did no hand in it. Well, I did have some. We had Griff and Taylor from Dawes. Great. So I knew I always wanted them to be a part of it. Had you known them for a while? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we've been friends, and it was like, so Griff was on drums for most of the songs. and then taylor was on guitar and then we had some other and then obviously seven other people yeah what was it like um i mean you have a couple of solo records but i imagine even those were people you were more familiar with and then of course you have the killers your band you've been playing with a long time so how from how odd is it to play with people you don't necessarily have a rapport with it was at first it felt a little intimidating because because of the caliber of musicians that these guys are and I started to understand what I was getting myself into but luckily I was sort of in the middle of touring when it happened so I was sort of in good singing form and we went and recorded it like you're supposed to record like you know a band playing the songs live and I haven't done that in 20 years yeah yeah you know we all played and it wasn't one guy at a time in front of the computer and it was everybody playing and and yeah we haven't I haven't done that since Sam's Town.

6:24And so we did it and they loved that. That was something that they have also sort of grown away from. It's just changed. Even in Nashville. Yeah, even in Nashville. So it was great. They loved that I was singing with them. I think they're accustomed to people kind of coming in and doing vocals later. And so they instantly, there was a bond, I think, right away when they saw that I was going to go and sing these songs. and we were all going to sweat it out together. And instantly we sort of connected there. Did you sing in the room with them or did you? Yeah, I was in the room, yeah. In the room.

7:01Really great. I had great partitions, the drummer's over here, so I can't really see him, but I can see the steel player and he was sort of my gauge for how things were going. His name's Bruce. He's just like iconic steel player, you know. But he's also, he wears a lot on his face. so i was like i knew how everything was going by bruce's scowl or smile or uh and he's emotional we get emotional about the emotional songs and uh and it was and it was it was actually a real comfort being next to bruce so he was your gauge not only to like maybe how the take was going but also how the song was resonating yeah and that was that was interesting to see because he really seeing his emotions was that was a um a part that stood out to me it was like okay that made me feel um you know like maybe i i i'm not such an outlier maybe i could you know i got a shot here do you need like i'm wondering it's funny i'm i mean i'm similar i think a lot of people are like just sometimes if you're in a room and you're uncomfortable you you pick a person and they just for whatever reason end up becoming like your source of your rock for that however whatever however long you're in that room is that something you feel you need live as well or that you you or do you is that a whole different uh no i think well if it depends on what world we're in if we're in the killer's world i do think i get a lot of um security having vannucci there on drums behind me and the you know he just has a a way of playing and an intensity and uh reliability that i'm accustomed to and and and that it makes me feel like i'm where i'm supposed to be yeah has that been true of like the entire run with the or does it has it changed since we started i think it's i think it's grown over time you know because in the in the early days you're playing bars and you're getting to know each other we didn't grow up together you know we you know the band was sort of came together um piece by piece and then and then just sort of catapulted into the stratosphere and so it wasn't that thing we don't have that thing we just be honest about you know we weren't like childhood friends.

9:10We had to grow to like each other as time went on. Well, and now you have 20-something years. Yeah. It's as good as probably growing up together at this point, right? Yeah. But back to Thrasher, why did you depart from recording live for almost 20 years? Yeah, I think it's just, it's not laziness. It's just easy. It makes me think maybe it is a little laziness. Well, it's just easier. Yeah. we went we went made the third record and it was a little bit killers made the third record so after sam's time we'd recorded live the third record was more pop leaning um and more the producer that we chose stuart price who's an amazing producer this he just works with logic and you know logic versus produce on that so he's a logic guy and he came from the dance world um And he's an amazing DJ and record producer.

10:03And so he had just made that Madonna's Confessions record. It was a massive record. And he'd done a really great remix of Mr. Brightside that had done really well, the Jacques LeConte remix. I remember that. And so we're like, let's check this guy out. And so we went in and did a record with him. And that was where it started, for better or for worse. But it was just that's how he recorded. And I was like, oh, this is kind of fast. and just kind of on the fly and taking turns. And we just, I don't know, we drifted away. I think a lot of people have done that. Prior to that, what slowed you down?

10:38Was there any particular, as a group, the dynamic in your group? Was it not being able to sort of iterate quickly enough? Yeah, no, it wasn't a problem. It was just, it is more convenient to do it that way. But you lose something also, I think. What you avoid is a band sitting in a room and fighting. over parts, you know, and that's, that can be, um, a blessing for a band. Maybe it kept us from breaking up over a fight, you know, over a bridge in a middle eight in a song or something like that, you know? So you avoid that uncomfortable situation. Um, but you also maybe miss out on magical moments.

11:19And so there is something to maybe mourn the loss of, but I'm going back to it now i think i i don't think i think the next killer's record we will you know i've learned a lot from making this records in nashville and i think we'll definitely implement that back into the to the next killer's record that re-inspired yeah oh yeah to to to play we should record live that's that's who we are yeah it is different though i mean i guess you know in those nashville sessions though i mean they're so efficient so you i think you also probably avoid the well that was the thing i keep coming back to i would watch these guys make these decisions it sounds like being funny but they would make a decision on the fly that a band today will is going to break up over a fight about this kind of a decision and they are they that is they cut that shit out like it is just like we know what you know if you do you just move on you make the decision you move on everybody makes the note play the song it's just there's just it was amazing to watch do they tell you they're gonna do it or is it just we all agree but it's just like it's there's so much behind it it's just like this is why this is you know this no you know somebody will make their say their piece and if they have these are guys that have been doing this for 60 years some of them and it's just like they know why that this is gonna work speaking of you know these guys some of these guys playing 60 years on um the second track one of us yeah your your harmonica player charlie who yeah is like he's been around a long time played on like highway 61 and blonde on blonde dylan's records he played on he played on the boxer he did simon garfunkel he played on pretty woman i didn't know that leonard cohen stuff just he's played on everything and yeah incredible he owns one of us it's like it's like charlie featuring brandon that song

13:35Oh, there ain't a thing to discuss Miss you like the rain, miss the bus Roll sign, read it, someplace bluebird sing And that about just sums it up Like a better dream, it's a bitter cup Nothing stays the same, it'll make you cry It'll make you cuss, you were always one of us His harmonic playing is like so wistful and kind of has a joy to it And then there's like a verve to almost how you sing it too. It took me a handful of listens to realize it's not necessarily a happy song. Yeah, it's a little bit of a sad song. About my brother-in-law. He passed away a couple of years back. But it's one of those things where there's family that you're born into and then there's family that you find.

14:25And he was in that category for me. And sometimes those are just as powerful or more powerful than other people. Yeah, sometimes much more. Yeah. And so I just loved him. My sister's quite a bit older than me, 17 years my senior. So when they were married, I was a kid. So he was like my brother. And so I just wanted to honor him with the song. And there's this amazing thing that can happen that I find within the genre where sadness and playfulness can kind of walk hand in hand. People like John Prine are masters of that. I always come back to that. So that was kind of us definitely able to play with that on this song.

15:06I mean, even from your own catalog, I would say that there's instances of that, you know, where, I mean, on Killers Records, there's certain songs that, I mean, maybe the first hundred listens, I had no clue that this song was a little darker or a little, you know, there was something under the surface. Yeah, it's, I think I have a knack for that. I don't know why. I think just whenever you start to tell stories, you can't help but go there sometimes. At least I can't. To go to sort of some of the darker. Yeah, I think so. I have a tendency or just maybe it's emotional or sadder things. Do you find yourself drawn also in terms of the things you like to sadder or darker?

15:51Those emotional responses. I'm an emotional guy. I used to think that that was maybe a weakness. and as I now I'm 45 and I see it as a strength you know and so I think that I've always been like that I've always uh been I've been touched by music or movies or or moments or whatever it is and and when I know you know maybe other people wouldn't have been so moved by it or or care about it but but whatever it's just my it's my lot in life it's a superpower to be affected deeply by it. Yeah. And to be able to sometimes be a part of it and have that translate into the work is not, it's really amazing.

16:34Yeah. Yeah. About when did you realize it wasn't like a character defect? Oh, just like recently with a therapist.

16:45Do you stand for therapy by the way? Yes. Yeah. Oh hell. Yeah. Hell yes. I'm going to try that myself. That's amazing. I mean, you would think just given the success, the sheer amount of success that you've had, that might have occurred sooner. Understanding that? Yeah. That was a gift. Well, yeah, no, I think you want to be, you know, there's this masculinity and there's this, you know, you want to be strong. But those things can also totally coexist. But it's just something that has come with time for me. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like maybe on Miss America, there might be some themes you're playing with there too of masculinity, especially in more rural America where, you know, I would say there's probably even more opportunity to dabble in what feels more stereotypically masculine, you know, whether it's riding pickup trucks or hunting or, you know.

17:48Yeah, and there's not, and I don't, because, you know, the big phrase is toxic masculinity. And I always feel like I want to say this, and I'm going to say it. They're talking about toxic masculinity is different than masculinity. You know, sometimes they don't differentiate it. Being masculine is fine, but being dangerous or being hurtful and, you know, and attributing it to you being a man is not fine. Right. So it's like, anyway, so that's my two cents. Obviously that makes sense, but sometimes people don't seem like they can differentiate those two things. Well, I think it'd be certain ways of thinking become fashionable and certain phrases become shortcuts to like a thing.

18:34And it's like, I definitely, I concede your point. I think it's super, I think it's really true. I think that sort of verbiage, toxic masculinity has somehow shortcutted to just being masculinity at large. and it's like how was that? It's funny. It's not, it's certainly not true and you're raising sons so I'm sure that's also something you have to think deeply about. Yeah, three boys. Was that present in your upbringing? Was that a common, like were those conversations you commonly had at home? No, not so much. My dad, my dad is a very, he was born in the 40s and he you know was he dropped out of high school in the ninth grade and sort of had a really different upbringing than I would have had um he grew up you know just went to work right away and um had pretty a pretty rough upbringing and um his dad was tough and so it was um there was a weird a strange tug of war because he also he converted to to my church when we when he when i was about six and so there was because your mom because your mother no he he was hit you know she had been lds the entire time which was kind of interesting so it was i think she had been just kind of waiting and and it was so after you know however many years of marriage that was 20 whatever years of marriage he converted um and it was a heart a heartfelt conversion and yeah and he's and he just changed and it was an interesting thing to be a part of so there was that side of him where i you know i grew up with this dad and it was like the pork chop you know uh he looked like he looked like some of these he i say he embodied some of these guys that that that i keep referencing for this country record he looked like those guys he looked like he would could be playing with merle haggard or something like that yeah and so and it was like drinking and and bar fights and pool pool halls and gambling and all that kind of stuff you know you would hear these kind of stories about my dad or racing cars and stuff it's like who i don't understand i don't i don't recognize it because he's when i was six he's became this other thing wow so like in his demeanor changed even you would yeah yeah so he was always i think a good man but he became a better man okay that's how i look at it okay yeah the edges and maybe Yeah, and so all my siblings are older.

21:04I'm the baby by quite a big margin. So they sort of had this different guy. And it wasn't like he wasn't terrible, but it was a really different thing where I think he was more gentle. And it really changed the trajectory of my life and our house. Do you think it was down to his conversion? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think so, yeah. God and all that? You think so? Yeah. Wow, that's pretty wild. Yeah. You don't think it was age, just sort of like it was time to... Maybe. It could be. Yeah, because he was in his early 40s when it happened. Yeah. Yeah. Wow, that's wild. It was crazy. I mean, it wasn't like he was going to prison, but it was like it went from that.

21:47He would bring home a homeless. One day I came home from school and there was a homeless family in my house. Wow. He brought them and they lived in our house. Wow. Which is a wild thing to do. Wow. for a while, things like that. And all of a sudden, he's involved in Boy Scouts. But he's great. He's a great guy. It's a real benefit to you that that happened. At that point, were you also going to church? Yeah, we went. And then we went fairly consistently, and then we started going even more when he was on board. Yeah, because now there's excitement to it. That's pretty amazing. Before you jump back in, you know that feeling when feedback, notes, and data are coming in from every direction?

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23:15But in this series, he's hitting the road to sit down with some of today's most fascinating artists. From hit makers like Miguel to rising stars like Alex Warren, Niall explores the stories behind the careers, the songs, and the moments that changed everything. because every artist can point to that turning point, that moment before the breakthrough, before the success, before everything changed. Through candid conversations and personal stories, you'll hear what happened before the moment that made them who they are today. Listen to Before the Moment, a Lincoln original series on the iHeartRadio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

23:49This is Malcolm Gladwell from Revisionist History. Life moves fast. At American Military University, they're ready to help you keep up. AMU's flexible, affordable online programs in cybersecurity, IT, space studies, and more are designed for service members, veterans, and their families. AMU provides the support you need to take the next step wherever life takes you. American Military University, made for what's next. Learn more at amu.apus.edu. you my best friend from middle school is lds and so i've he has a lot of family in utah that's also just become as good as family as well to me so i've spent a lot of time out there so one of the things that really struck me on on the record is uh i think it's miss america as well um because every time i'd go there and we'd be driving past a certain place to be like oh yeah footloose was filmed here oh yeah it's like really okay and you know it became like the 20th time like you know footloose was filmed here it's like oh okay you know it's like this is like a really big thing here you know listening to your record and um i think it was on this america it's like you know it's a scene where chris pen and kevin bacon filmed and i was like oh yes i'm not the only one who's been hearing this forever it was a big deal we moved there when i was eight to this town called payson so it was filmed you probably were driving by lehigh there we go and it's like a school yeah and so Payson and Lehigh are the two towns where where Footloose was filmed and we moved to Payson so I lived on Utah Avenue in Payson Utah at the end of Utah Avenue on the on this corner there was a a car wash and there's just just like idyllic scene in that movie I don't know fire it up if you can fire it up because it's so beautiful but the trees lining this you know the streets and they're washing this bug and and uh anyway it was yeah but that was like that was the thing when we moved there like footloose was filmed i told kevin bacon once that i lived on that street zero f's given now come on really zero what did i don't know what am i gonna do i just i saw you i lived on you the street where you filmed to see the chris pen and it was just he didn't care did he know who you were i think he did yeah he's like a music guy i feel like i know i just i was he's it was uh we were doing a john lennon uh tribute and i i was doing i uh you know everybody was singing a song i think he was hosting it yeah anyway i'm outing kevin on that he didn't care i mean you know i guess it's the things that become really meaningful to us and it's like for him yeah he was there for two weeks in 1984 or whenever that came out you know um so i guess this is no shade on him how long had that thought as a i mean so you've known that for a long time and it's just working its way into a song well i wanted it to show there's a beauty in it she's so young and naive she's writing this letter to this man that beats her like you know that like should go to jail yeah and she can't help but tell him that that they filmed footloose here so there's like this other layer to it that and that and that would have been how it was that was the way it felt when we moved there yeah because she was just she would have just been you know 22 or something like that when she left him yeah it feels like the kind of song that um i feel like some of the reason you make making a country album didn't necessarily surprise me is um you've always stood out as a really um from the from the very beginning like a really uh uh a really i don't know the right phrase but just a really good songwriter you know like on undergirding everything like undergirding hot fuss with all the great production and great you know every the band is great and and your performance is amazing but what you realized what set that apart from everything else from or not everything else but much else from that era was just how tight and amazing the songwriting was yeah thanks yeah i think storytelling was always there too that was that that was what maybe that that little tilt that made us different than kings of leon or or whatever strokes or whatever it was yeah um you might not it was i was very interested in that it just made sense to me to tell stories yeah and i think that's put us in our own little lane off to the side yeah at a time when there were clearly a lot of groups that were um like disciples of like joy division right or or or you know um depeche mode or any of those sort of like uk post-punk yeah but then but then it got really like in that time too when you guys came out that music got really like dancey and really upbeat but then i think that's the fact that that music was so upbeat and so big and so broad but was sort of streamlined by this beautiful songwriting underneath it really did give it legs beyond you know yeah probably what otherwise it would have had if it didn't have that songwriting under it you know yeah there was there was always a like a some kind of a even a moral compass in there somewhere that that that's just a part of i think you know my upbringing and things like that that i couldn't help but inject into there and luckily it's i think it's like you said i think it's given at something of its own.

29:18Yeah. Did it feel ever, like on that first album and then you have the murder ballad. Yeah. Jenny was a friend of mine. Jenny was a friend of mine. Yeah, the murder ballad trilogy. Yeah. You know, and then also in country you have murder ballads, you know? Yeah. But did it ever feel like you were riding a line between morality and maybe like a darker sort of... That specifically, Jenny was a friend of mine just for me, I know exactly where it comes from. And it's just Morrissey. He has this line, I love the romance of crime. And he's singing about the craze in England and things like that. And he would have little seeds like that.

30:02And I was just a big Morrissey fan. And he knew about Nick Cave's stuff like that. It's kind of those two things came together on songs like Jenny was a friend of mine. How much of that and country music were you drawn to? The murder stuff? The murder stuff. The stuff that was kind of moral storytelling, but through. Yeah, not so much. It was, like I said, it was something that, it was like a flash in my life. Because when I was 13, I chose what I was going to be. Like my, I was going to be this synth pop and Brit pop and new wave, like that is my alley. And so I didn't abandon country music, but I had, but I am realizing now that I had an education from it, from listening to it.

30:57I was surrounded by it in Utah and then by my father and the music that he gave. So it wasn't not a lot of the dark, not so much of the dark stuff. Did you ever sing like this? No, I don't. I'm only seeing it. I'm leaning into it a little bit, but it feels like pretty natural to sing like some of these. No, I'm not. Not even in the sense that you're leaning into the country, but just if it's more, it's almost more straight than like less theatrical. Yeah, I think the words are really important in the tradition of country music. And so that was one of the things we went for with the mixes and everything.

31:33Sean, because Sean is, this isn't necessarily his, you know, his genre either. And so, but, you know, sometimes you can, things can be ambiguous and, but when you're telling these stories, you really want it to be clear. And so I think maybe that's what you're picking up on. Yeah. Yeah. Was it, it just leads me to, was Paradise, it was not, was it Paradise the last song that you wrote? Paradise, yeah. Or that you recorded? Yeah, yeah, yeah. and that wasn't even initially that wasn't initially going to make the album right it wasn't written because i i wrote it right we had a gap to go home before we were going to do another session and i was like i got i just loved i watched them it goes back to one of us we went and played one of us we would we had done a couple of tracks and bobby the piano players amazing piano player mainstay in Nashville.

32:26He played with Elvis and everybody. And I still remember he go, played him the demo of One of Us and he just, he had this pep in his step walking back to the piano and he goes, this is country. And it just meant, oh, I know, like, this is what I do. Like, I know what to do here. And I wanted to write another song that made Bobby, that made Bobby do that or something like that. I was just like, oh, okay, this is what, you know, this is what, they all seem to just love that more that vibe a little bit more and i wanted to get one more lick in so i wrote paradise to satisfy that yeah and just because i knew they would be so great it was like they they don't there's not a question of what to you know there's a blueprint for this kind of a thing yeah yeah were there were there any songs you tried that didn't you feel that in your mind didn't fit no it all worked it all the the strangest one is plans which was sort of the face of the record the lead single um was a totally was an up-tempo completely the exact same song but a different genre and we they're just so great at recording that we ran out of you know the clock's ticking and i'm paying for the studio and there's like you got anything else kind of a thing and i had this this song plans but it was it was like it was sort of like you know arc of a diver steve winwood no it's a weird reference maybe i think it's like 79 or 80 or something like that before it's big like it's before the big stuff before back in the high life and stuff like that but it's really cool and it was in that vein anyway and it's so it's a little bit more uptempo and i sang the verses up high and then we just tried it country exactly the same song and and it just settled right it just settled right into that genre and and that was amazing thing to witness well that makes me wonder like is is there uh is are there country songs and non-country songs or can any song like is there a different could you know yeah i don't know i think you could make it yeah you know you could manipulate anything i guess well let me ask more directly like could mr brightside be a country song some my buddy sent me a somebody made a version you know it's not the same melodies and everything but somebody has made a some ai version of it where it's like a dark a dark country song i don't know did it work besides that it was Embarrassing, yes, it worked.

34:48Well, there's something about the lyrics and the, yeah, that's just gonna, I think you could make it anything, you know? Oh, that's interesting. Because it just feels like the songwriting, I mean, the songwriting, similar to the vocal delivery, the songwriting on this is so plain, but in a beautiful way. Like, there's just some really just, talking about Elvis, like that line, Jet Black Elvis 68, the combat, you know, jet black 68 comeback leather black 68 comeback leather like that's just a it's it's uh just a description yeah it's like a wonderful description that makes you feel something yeah you know and it feels like there's but there's no slight of hand in it necessarily i think that came from that's that kind of stuff comes from petty and i think i attribute that to a lot to him just like this is my language how can i convey what i need to say like in a way that anyone can get it and that he was the king the king of that yeah uh what what uh when did you get into petty he came later i was always aware of him yeah but it wasn't until i just had this strange renaissance you know i had this in my mid-20s yeah you know everybody has their thing when they're 13 and i had my thing when i was 13 and then i had this thing i got to do it again in my 20s and it was amazing you know i fell in love with a whole new genre of music it started with bruce Springsteen and then that led to Petty and Tom Waits and Mellencamp and all those and all of those kind of people and that which I think is also a gateway to to this record you know yeah it seems like it yeah what what was what was your Bruce awakening man I mean I I've I've talked about a little bit before I can still see it I was on Boulder Highway Boulder Highway and Horizon is where I'm from you know in Henderson it's old Henderson if anybody out there is watching because Henderson has gotten so big now but so like the OG Henderson and I was listening to Classic Rock Station it was like 97.1 and they played Thunder Road and it's like yeah I know about Born to Run I know about Born in the USA you how could you not you know it um if you've been alive but and I knew who it was uh and I was just we had we had we were we were on a break from from we had finished touring the the first record hot fuss so i'm 25 or whatever 24 and it was sunny and and hot you know and it just clicked you know like i understood it's that thing again he's speaking my language like i it's nothing against morrissey or anybody that they're not speaking my language yes it's english but i don't but it isn't mine and and it It was like this, if something happened and I understood, like, if I'm going to do what I'm trying to do and be a creative person and represent who I am and where I'm from, like, it's got to be, this is more me than what I've been trying to, you know, than this facade.

37:50Interesting. It wasn't just that it was you at 13 and it wasn't you at 24, 25. You just didn't think that they're sort of, that lexic, that, that, that au revoir wasn't actually where you were raised. It's like more of a. Yeah, it was, it was like an epiphany. Yeah. And everything had happened so fast up to that point. And then there's going to be people that see me say this and say they wish that I would have just kept going with the other thing. And it's been a little bit of a, I don't know if it's a dilemma, but it's been kind of interesting to see. Because since that point, you see these things combined in the killers.

38:28And sometimes when they meet, it's really a magical thing. you know because who would have thought that someone would be would be trying to to reconcile or try to make these things these influences work do you still have that other side of you you think the the the yeah i do i hear it oh i have i see it in my sons because i have i had one son the other day that was you know like listening to black celebration from depeche mode or music for the masses or something like that it's like there's a song on uh there's a song called but not tonight's the last song on i think on black celebration man like crazy to hear it and remember being his age and what that felt like and i could i could feel it you know but i don't think oh i want to do that at all it didn't make you want to go down that road again that's fascinating i have another son who's into right now the other one is oasis like everything's oasis and we're playing pool and he's just whistling whistling little by little he's so it's he loves it and um and so i got that again a little bit and it's like because i did have a real big uh love affair with them when i was 18 19 and and that was not that was really nice yeah and more the thing that i go back to with them is just the songwriting um yeah because a lot of people a lot of stuff a lot was talked about do and when our first record it was like Drandrand, Depeche Mode, and whatever they were talking about, and New Order and stuff like that.

39:59But the songwriting was Oasis. I was learning from Oasis. It was like, you look at, somebody told me, Mr. Brightside, they have these big prolonged pre-choruses. And that's Noel Gallagher's book. That's straight from him. Those other bands didn't do that kind of stuff as much. But it sets you up for these big choruses. And that's why those Oasis songs are so big. That's fascinating. So that's the magic of at least early killers is like that Brit pop songwriting school with the dressed up as kind of these like new order-y. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'd never put that together as being sort of the confluence of those two things.

40:43Yeah, it's amazing how it all just meshes.

40:50so you had the bruce springsteen epiphany yeah and that led you down you know i imagine like a well it's like i wear sometimes i wear you know we're from las vegas and that gives us permission to you know wear flashy things on stage you know i do i get away with things that other pants maybe not maybe not maybe they couldn't uh there but there's this part of me that's you know that's my dad's side or that's the person that I that the way I dress when I'm not on stage and it was like you're those kind of things are starting to come into play you're becoming a man you're figuring out who you are and so yeah that was the it was like okay this is more this is reality it's more authentic to me since then have you had another musical discovery um no I think it's getting more into like the nuances of these of so so like that like I would like I go back to john prine or something like that where that that's he's this sort of he's in the periphery of tom petty in a way you know what i mean and it's like you you get led there yeah and then it's like these are these are you know i'm you know the songwriter songwriters and people like that that start to come into play yeah and so that that's the those are the nice surprises that that have come into my life along the way was was neil ever uh neil young ever uh yeah he's he's he's in there okay i feel like i hear a little neil on this yeah that's me i could hear some of that you know every once in a while um angel felt a little oh yeah yeah yeah there's a yeah there's a those priny though in the lyrics yeah yeah um i could see that yeah for sure in the especially the some of the heavier moments yeah yeah tell me about tell me about that angel into um the next track is the red uh red ground i was gonna say the red ground i don't know if it's incidental or on purpose, but having that slight mariachi moment at the end of Angel and then the big mariachi moment at the top of the record, I mean, that's great.

42:46Yeah, no, it's, we got, everything was recorded in Nashville, but the mariachi was LA. You can't, you just can't. Can't fake it. It has to be in LA. And so that's the only, that's the only one that wasn't done, the only thing that wasn't done in Nashville. did you know there was going to be a mariachi there or yeah well it was going to be a it's a it's a story it's a story about a hispanic young man yeah and it's a true story it's a true story and i've just i've conceived i've i've changed his name and so it just felt appropriate to have the the mariachi at the end something you read or it's a person you know this person i know yeah Wow.

43:25I was going to ask, because it is so specific, you know, like in a way. Yeah. But like beautiful. I mean, I have nothing in common with that person, really. It's that specific that I can tell I have nothing really in common. I don't play baseball. No one was ever scouting me for anything, you know. But it's really moving. It's really moving, you know. Oh, yeah. The chorus, I love what the chorus does. and how each, you know, it represents each verse, but each verse is so different. And so every time you've got this new development, but the chorus stays this permanent to it, and I love that, yeah.

44:08Yeah, yeah. What about the Red Ground? Red Ground, I was trying to write like a Lee Hazelwood song. It ended up not like Lee Hazelwood at all. um but yeah it was the fastest written song um just kind of it's one of those moments that you hear about that that just falls from heaven or falls into your lap and just it's just a it's a we open with it most nights so you know we've only done a few shows but we open with it and it's just such a fun way to start the show and was was going to be reserved for the other record because there's two records that we cut um so it's really an outlier in that sense because it's more of a romantic song where the rest are more narrative songs um but but it just um it just felt good it just felt good after angel yeah wait and wait yeah so what so the second you do have a second album yeah and it's done it's it just needs uh mixed more more mixing okay and uh is it in a similar vein is it same band um it's just thematically different it's got it's more romance leaning yeah but same like similar but not like sappy romance it's like what it's more like what is it what's it gonna take you know for this to last what does it take for for people to make it and stay together kind of a thing it's more it's it's not um it's like a hard-earned thing and not so much a a sappy love album it's a grown-up take on yeah i mean you've been in a long term that what like in your view as some you know i'm also married trying to make it what is it yeah in your view well i i always go back to my parents because i i hate from my perspective i always whenever it's difficult to give advice but it's like i don't i i'm so lucky i'm so successful in my life with money and things like that i don't i don't have i'm not fighting with my wife over bills yeah so whenever i see like a super or a movie star or something like that like giving marriage advice, I always recoil a little bit.